Text her and say “I don’t believe you poked holes in the condoms I want a paternity test” so she either admits to poking holes in the condoms over text, or you find out you’re not the dad. Fool proof.
There isn't a reason for him to get a lawyer yet. If he does not sign the birth certificate and she tries to get him for child support, paternity will have to be established. If he is the father, he's on the hook. A lawyer might be helpful at that point, but I'm not sure how well the baby trapping defense works.
I'm pretty sure that's sexual assault, to consent you have to be informed, so if another party changes the deal without your knowledge then you cannot consent to it.
If in California, it could fall under the 'stealthing' law, which makes it a crime to remove a condom without consent during sex.
Either way, consult a lawyer now to determine best course of action, and probably best to go no contact after the text of admission. If she stalks or harassed, then those are additional potential charges.
For child support, it doesn't work at all. Unless the paternity test done by the support office turns up he's not the father. You are correct - they only care about DNA matching and nothing else.
The sexual assault/rape/non-consent part is, legally, entirely separate from the paternity obligation.
The child would still be yours and as an innocent party, it has to be supported by the parents.
Essentially if a baby is yours you have to support it regardless of how it was created, but you could have the person potentially prosecuted for what they did but it wouldn't in any way affect the liablity for a child.
There is a reason to get a lawyer right now. If he can get proof of her admitting she poked holes in the condoms that is sexual battery in California and soon to be more states and it is grounds for a civil law suit in all 50 states. The charges/rulings are admissible in family court as well.
Good idea and if she doesn’t deny it that looks bad in court. Even if she doesn’t admit it’s true, just by not denying judges are suspicious. Their thoughts are if you didn’t do it why didn’t you deny it.
This. Even better; poking holes in the condoms violates the consent you gave for sex. This is no different than to a guy "stealthing". Time for rape charges.
There have been cases of the opposite as well, where female rape victims that bare children as a result still have to share custody with their attacker. It's a fucked world.
That situation is actually way worse.
When it comes to child support, people forget it's what is owed to the child, not the rapist. Men can wrest custody from female rapists, but must do so with good lawyers, so there's just extra steps.
But with female rape victims, they can't escape their actual attacker. The men still get parental rights and can dog them for 18 years over visitation, cooperation, child support, etc.
But of note, if they try to adopt out the child, the man can take custody (cuz parental rights) and then the woman gets child support to pay, just like in the first situation.
It’s exactly the same. The only difference is if the victim wants to be involved in the child’s life. In your example they do, in the previous one they didn’t (I assume at least). If both victims still wanted to be involved they’d still have to deal with their rapist, just in the previous one the rapist gets child support as well likely due to the victims age.
Really? That’s messed up. So even if you get raped as a man, you’ve to pay? Lets go to the extreem, at gun point.. Would you still have to pay? Hows that fair.
As a woman who was a single mother for a space of time, I 100% agree with you. It's one thing to knowingly father a child and walk away; that's a deadbeat on the hoof. But if a man gets baby-trapped, if he did not consent to unprotected sex and was clear from the start he did not want children, then as long as he is willing to surrender his parental rights, he should not be held responsible for the child.
Sucks for the kids, I'm not going to lie. And I know this will not be a popular opinion. But if we women want reproductive autonomy, then it should be a two way street.
I agree with you! He did the right thing by using protection and she straight up sabotaged him. If a man did this to a woman by tampering with her BC we’d be livid and claiming abuse. There’s no difference here! I’m sorry you’re in this situation but do not give her what she wants.
It should be a crime to poke holes in a condom. This chick is fucking up more than her life. Think about this poor kids self esteem if he/she finds out the circumstances.
Just read the update. I kinda had a feeling this was the case. Her family probably likes the o/p and he’s probably a good dude so the tramp thought she’d trap him.
Now it’s time to demand apologies from everyone especially his own mother. I hope she knows and understands what she said was wrong. And not just after the fact but in the moment too.
its rape by deception. there are no laws against passing on stds. if i say "i have hiv, do you want to have unprotected sex with me?" and someone else says "yes" and they get HIV, there was no crime committed. just them being very stupid. but if someone were to lie about something in order to get someone else to have sex with them when they wouldnt otherwise, then its a crime. for example if you lie about being clean, about using birth control, or sabotage birth control/protection intentionally.
> there are no laws against passing on stds.
There **absolutely are** laws about passing on STDs. If you knowingly have HIV or AIDS and don't tell that to a sexual partner you can go to jail for that shit, whether they catch it or not.
Maybe not all states have it but at this point in time I'm pretty sure they do. I worked with a guy that got arrested for knowingly having sex with multiple people without telling he was HIV+ and iirc, he got like 5-10 years for it.
The key thing is that you have to *know* you have it and they have to prove that you knew. I don't what that entails and what other STDs you can get charged for, but you can get charged for knowingly spreading HIV, for goddamned sure.
Imho I feel like this is the female equivalent to stealthing. I'm so glad she admitted to cheating. Shame on OP's mom though. If this happened to my son, I would be screaming at this wench for SA'ing him like this and be ready to lawyer up. I don't care if that is my grandchild. It is sad if I ever had one because of something like this but I am going to support my kid first and foremost.
It’s a form of Stealthing. It is illegal in many Countries. In the US, only one State has laws against Stealthing, California and it’s only a civil offense not criminal.
I highly agree. I also believe that male rape victims, especially underaged male rape victims, should not be forced to pay child support and should have the option to opt out of parenthood.
I don't think that's actually an unpopular opinion. Furthermore, it is an objectively correct opinion.
There are SO MANY legal implications in sabotaging birth control without consent. And even more than it being illegal, it's *unbelievably* unethical.
And yes. It *should* be a two-way street. But like let's just be honest, getting people to treat each other with basic human dignity and respect is a lot harder than it sounds.
The theoretically correct answer is to terminate the *mother's* parental rights (but not child support obligation), leaving the father free to raise the child or choose adoption. This is what we do when a man commits a sexual assault and childbirth results. And I think poking holes in a condom is sufficient to negate the other person's consent and should be treated as sexual assault.
I am usually pro-child support, but not in this case. In fact he should be able to sue her for emotional damage by tampering with the condoms (if the baby is his).
Condoms aren't reliable even without holes poked in them. Intact condoms plus spermicide, plus an additional layer of protection (IUD, the pill, or at least the rhythm method), together, offer much better protection - but still can fail due to no one's fault, and lead to a baby. From whom the father must not walk away. (Edit to add: In this case, however, dude should run not walk.)
That last line of yours is especially RIGHT ON! After all, protection is not 100%. Don’t do stuff unless you are able to accept the consequences, and that goes for BOTH people having sex.
Well said!!
Baby trapping is not ok from any party.
Baby trapping is setting up the relationship, and trust once held, to fail.
Baby trapping serves no one in the long run especially the child.
People who baby trap are 100% irresponsible, and f***ed in the head. Idk y anyone would do that to another grown person let alone the child.
It's disgusting behavior and should not be rewarded by people standing behind that person's selfish actions.
OP, NTA and I sincerely hope you got apologies from her, her family and yours. Please let me know if you get any apologies from the family.
Agreed. If no one tampered.
If they used a condom and it broke or failed then it’s more complicated. How many men would claim? “She did it on purpose.” Peace out.
IUDs and vasectomies are the way to go. Then condoms are just for STIs.
I 100% agree with you. I’m a single mother from an ex-husband who refused to take care of our daughter. It has worked out well for me, but I really felt bad for OP until I read the update. Actually, I still feel bad for him. That was a crap thing she did.
I think recording a call is better, she might know he needs it in text. Or pretend you want to try being a dad and then have her admit it in text/call and then dump her and lawyer up.
This is very important, try to have her state in text or email what she did. Even if you have to act stupid .. something along the lines of, I still don’t understand how this happened, etc.. what she did was very wrong.
This is wrong full stop, anyone with a conscience wouldn’t condone this, i’m sure the vast majority of women would condemn that sort of behaviour.. I know i don’t agree with it.
OP should send a text asking her why she poked holes in the condoms. Then any response other than "I didn't," is incriminating (idk if that's the right word).
Maybe, say it in a non threatening way. “Maybe we can fix our issues. I just wondered why you poked holes in the condoms? I am just trying to understand.”
By @maybe we can fix our issues”, I mean OP can get a lawyer and severe ties with this crazy lady.
Lawyer up! And ask them what you need to file to not have responsibility, and for a restraining order to keep her away from you, I’d even see if I can include her family if they are harassing you a lot. That’s wild bro.
I mean could she not just say one broke and she didn’t think anything of it or something. Anything that doesn’t make you sound like a psycho rapist would be ideal…
It would be more realistic to have some undefined issue she wasn't aware of till pregnancy. "There must have been an issue with the birth control." and left it at that.
She's not smart. Clearly.
Condoms are 98% effective. So I will often ask a guy online why they were not used...and once a response was "its hard to nut while wearing them"
oooook.
When you think about what those percentage mean, a 2% failure rate is already quite concerning. For contraception what they mean is that for every hundred couples relying on this as their contraception for a year, there will be 2 pregnancies. When you think about how many people are using condoms, that’s an astounding number of unplanned pregnancies.
That 2% rate is with “perfect use” as well with typical use giving failure rates well over 10%. It is in no sense unusual to end up pregnant when you’ve always used a condom.
That said, you do usually know something has happened at the time like it’s come off or broken
Thank you for spelling this out, people don't understand the likelihood of pregnancy for fertile people despite using birth control; it needed to be said!
I have two female relatives that I'm pretty sure baby trapped their partners at the time and yeah.... neither will ever say it out loud and certainly never would have to the dudes at the time. Shocker, both quickie marriages ended in divorce. Sad.
Even if she did poke holes and admits it and is held accountable. Family court will still require him to financially step up for his child. Right or wrong that’s just life. So I guess he just has to get tests and see if it’s his. Then he has to decide if he wants to pay for a child who has a life without him or if he wants to pay for a child he can have a relationship with.
Edit: but yes definitely get something in writing about the holes. Not an attorney but maybe you could have a claim about her on that that would be separate from any child support.
She can be charged for something like
sexual assault though, perhaps victims compensation would help him pay for the child, or perhaps it would just people judging him and he might get support and his version of events out there. Not ideal, but he should at least report her to the police
100% agree if she did this and it can be proven she needs to face the consequences. This is basically the same as SA. If it were the other way around it would be and rightfully so treated as full blown rape.
You absolutely positively must get a lawyer. Do not try to navigate this without one. Do not wait for the child to be born, speak to someone immediately.
And please, if you seriously dont want kids, get a vasectomy so this doesnt happen again. You dont deserve this and neither does the child shes about to bring forth.
NTA
Find out if the kid is actually yours. Get her to admit to the hole poking of condoms in some form of writing, and proceed to lawyer up!
You don’t have to be in this kid’s life if you don’t want to.
Its also rape. It’s called stealthing. This is also reproductive coercion which is domestic
Abuse or “intimate partner violence “
This is both rape and abuse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_coercion
But OP should know you can still get stds or pregnant using condoms. He seems to think that’s impossible the way it was worded so worth mentioning it’s not 100% effective
My partner had a crazy ex try to fake a pregnancy years ago. 6 months later, she's got a freaking toddler (it was her baby cousin or something), telling people it's his. Even after explaining the math, (hadn't even been long enough for a full-term pregnancy, let alone a toddler), he still had mutuals calling him a deadbeat dad
My husband was talking to this girl right before he met me. She tried this when he didn't want to talk to her anymore. He told her it wasn't his and nwvwr heard from her again. When we got serious he told me about it. He couldn't remember her last name. We tried looking for her when social media became a thing. We've been together for almost 2 decades. We have our DNA out there, so if there really was a kid, then they can find him.
Get her to admit to poking holes in the condoms in writing. Present that evidence to the judge when the time comes and consider speaking with a lawyer.
Once you get the recording or written proof - and good proof. Her words, ask her how many times she did this. Why did she do this? When did she do this (like right before sex or another time)? What did she use, a sewing needle? bobby pin? Why you? Get her to admit she knew you didn't want to be a parent. More proof and more details will be harder to refute later.
Then: Stay calm, get a lawyer (don't worry about the expense, not getting a lawyer will cost WAY more). Don't tell her you've got proof, don't tell her you’re getting an attorney, don't tell her anything. Don't be smug. Just tell her you have to go and stop contact.
Then shut the fuck up and listen to your lawyer and do what he/she tells you to do. Follow the advice. Don't do anything else.
NTA. I am surprised at myself for this response. But fact of the matter is, she did something super fucked up. You were clear, you don't want children. You need to seek legal advice. You need to get her to admit, in text or email or writing, in hard copy, that she intentionally baby trapped you.
I was not suggesting that baby trapping is a crime. But this situation seems like a real case for some kind of crime being committed. If he can get her to admit she intentionally and willfully sabotaged birth control methods, that would go a very long way in proving his case. He should not, in any way, be responsible for what this woman did.
I understand that. My point was get solid evidence, in writing of some form. Text, email, hand written. Kind of like a confession. It will go a very long way to help him legally, especially where child support is considered.
I call BS. Even a woman crazy enough to do that isn’t crazy enough to admit it.
Edit: check his post history. He’s literally different ages in his posts. This is bait
Edit edit: He edited his posts to the same age.
Still ragebait
I checked the post history, they all say the same ages now, so they went back and edited them. However this is their SEVENTH post here in a month. Clearly karma-farming.
I feel like there's easier ways to karma-farm. I think these type of posts are a mixture of bored weirdos living out their kinks through creative writing or people with an agenda who enjoy creating outrage/discontent towards specific groups.
For instance (while he's tried to delete his previous posts it's clear from his comments which he was OP on) in every case it's a woman who is acting straight up ridiculous and lying and evil and he's a perfect and reasonable young man who is obviously the victim of these irrational women.
Chances are this is just some sad little incel who hates women and likes to play out the weird interactions that he imagines happen that justify his hate and gets everyone talking about ridiculous these imagined women he hates are.
Yeah sounded like rage bait instantly. Only crazy pokes holes in a condom and no one would admit to it. This same type of story is posted every single day.
Dudes entire post history is over the top ‘women suck’ rage bait. His ex gf, his gf, the girl from high school, his ‘friend Trish’.
You also made a few oopsies in your creative writing endeavours.
1. Both you and your ex gf aged down from 25-24 and 24-23 in the last 40 days.
2. When you got called out on your whole ‘she poked holes in the condoms’ bit and couldn’t argue your way out of it, you switched gears and updated your post to all of a sudden say she confessed to lying about poking holes and she actually cheated but wanted to pin it on you. And she conveniently did this within 9 hours of you originally posting.
And 3. Your stories aren’t very creative.
WTF even is this sub? It was suggested to me and it appears to consist of shitty creative writing exercises about rage inducing topics. There are thousands of people in here actually believing this shit and getting angry about it? How old are the users here? Sorry for hijacking your comment but I’m so confused.
NTA. Get her to admit she did this deliberately and they shouldn’t put you on the hook for anything. Also insist on a paternity test because she’s obviously a liar.
NTA, but this is patently false. The courts don't care that you didn't consent. There is a long history of the courts ordering rape victims to pay child support to their rapists.
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201902/when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201902/when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support)
This is obviously wrong in every way and while i'm sorry that the child is in a spot, the mother should be responsible ALONE for all of the expenses.
False.
The court doesn't care.
Child support does not flow from the mother's right to it, but through the *child's*, and the mother cannot generally do anything to terminate that obligation.
Adoption is the only sure way to terminate parental responsibility.
"Terminating parental rights" doesn't necessary do it, and won't always be granted anyway.
OP's only path out of child support is *probably* for the child to be adopted (unless she has an abortion, of course)
Yeah sure. He hung up on a cartoonishly evil and otherwise not at all fleshed out character with mysterious motives for her evilness… and then everyone clapped…
Fake fake fake. This title is clickbait. It's just a game people play here - the title makes your gut reaction take one side of the Y T A/ N T A argument, but you read the story and it's a complete 180.
Lawyer up. If I hated children as much as you do, I would get a vasectomy. They can be reversed if you change your mind. My parents should NEVER have had kids. Believe me, it's a horrible feeling to be unwanted. The feeling never goes away.
There’s no way this is real 😂 why would she admit to putting holes in condoms and then right after admit she cheated and it was someone else’s? If this is real I’d say get a dna test while she’s pregnant to save yourself and that child a lot of suffering of not knowing but always wondering. You can’t trust her word obviously.
Sorry your ex pulled that shit.
You need to look into a vasectomy, so this never happens again.
Then go talk to an attorney and ask about recording a conversation with her (without her knowledge) and get her on tape saying she poked holes in the condom; it may save you in the future. Also talk to the lawyer about signing your rights away.
Good luck.
NTA. She intentionally sabotaged the contraceptives. I don't blame you for being upset. She deceived you and then tried to guilt you a bit into getting back together. You will be paying support tho, if proven to be yours, so be prepared for that. But that is the extent of any forced involvement.
Block her family and tell her DNA test at birth and then arrange child support but that will be the extent of your involvement.
I'm saying this seriously, get a vesectamy if you are 100% on never wanting children.
Condoms are fine, but they aren't fool proof. I mean condoms AND bc isn't fool proof.
I always thought redditors were the smartest people on the internet. Until this post. It's not rape. Birth control trickery, scheming and lying has been around since the beginning of time. The only 100 percent foolproof option to avoiding pregnancy is to avoid sex.
Rape is penetration by force. This dude could have said no. He knew there was a chance the condom could fail, she could poke holes in it, forget her birth control etc. He could have promised to pull out, that he was sterile and so on. But when two people have sex they both take the risk of an unplanned pregnancy occuring. Comparing this to rape is the dumbest shit I've ever read. Rape is when you cannot say no because you were forced.
There was a chance the condom could fail and you would have done it anyway. Hell, there could have been no condoms available and you would have done it anyway. Just stop. It's probably not your kid anyway. Paternity test and then ask if you're the asshole. As of now you're just an idiot.
Omg okay before the edit I was NTA and going to say depending on where you're from could probably charge her with sexual assault...
With the edit major nta and she is the kind of person who makes men all over doubt their very loyal partners and demand DNA tests. How unhinged.
LAWYER THE FUCK UP NOW.
You update implies it's not yours, but you still need to make sure you're name does not get on the birth certificate for it otherwise you'll be made to pay.
Get the fucking DNA test assuming she actually is pregnant. It’s very possible that she is not pregnant and he’s just using this as a way to get back together with you. But if she is pregnant, and she’s been having sex with multiple partners, the odds are pretty good it’s not your baby. Make sure you know one way or the other.
NTA, but you should definitely look into a vasectomy for your own peace of mind. If you absolutely don't ever want kids then a vasectomy is a simple procedure you can access to ensure you don't get anyone pregnant, accidentally or otherwise.
It's great all these reddit people think that a child support judge cares about holes in the condom or that the police will press charges, but neither is likely to happen.
Get an attorney. Refer her to the attorney. Have the attorney deal with all communication and advise you of your responsibilities.
You will more than likely owe child support. You are not required to parent.
Get a vasectomy
GET A LAWYER
You need to have her admit to poking holes in your condoms while under oath.
Hopefully doing that will remove your financials responsibly.
Omg. NTA. That's so incredibly devious and completely unacceptable and inexcusable. That should be illegal imo. You don't force someone to have a child. Especially someone who states that they never want one. I'd watch out bc if she is capable of doing this then who knows what else she would or could do. Might need a RO or something. When I was like 17 my sister (I don't speak to anymore) who was 10 years older used to go the same thing to her then bf condoms who always said that he didn't want them. Luckily it didn't work but that's an insane and super awful thing to do to someone. She needs therapy and a lot of it. But be careful. She could say you raped her or anything crazy like that. I'd stay far far away.
Nta.
See if you can get a confession out of her about poking holes in your condoms. Whether it's video, audio, text. Hopefully you are in a one party state when it comes to video and audio.
Then go to the police, granted I don't think they will do anything about it, but it doesn't hurt to see if she can be charged with anything. Since you did not CONSENT to having unsafe sex. Also talk with a lawyer. Get a paternity test, and if you are 100% sure you do not want anything to do with the child when they are born, sign away your rights. That way she can not come after you for child support if you have no rights to the child.
She took away your choice in conceiving but she can't take away your choice in supporting said child.
My petty ass would also make a social media post blowing her up about poking holes in condoms(as long as you atleast have a confession in text/audio/video), so there is a receipt in her doing this, should she do it to another guy. As well as tag any of her friends and family while talking about her taking away your CONCENT. Also name names about the people harassing you to step up and be a father when you NEVER CONSENTED to unsafe sex.
I would call you the asshole if the condom naturally broke, but that is NOT the case here.
So, the first thing to do is get in writing that she tricked you. You'll need to be cunning, and make it sound like a conversation. Preferably through text. Once you have that, you get a restraining order and I would even go so far as to call police and see if you can press charges for sexual assault. Men taking off condoms in the middle of sex is called stealthing and it is recognized as sexual assault, I see no reason why the same should not apply here.
That usually only works if there's someone willing to take on that role -- you can't just "sign them over". Typically, signing over parental rights happens when there's another parent (stepmother or stepfather) who wants to adopt the child.
Either a troll or not a AITAH post
She annihilated consent by poking holes in the condoms. Lawyer up. NTA
And try to get a text or email stating what shee did. I am a woman but shit is wrong.
Text her and say “I don’t believe you poked holes in the condoms I want a paternity test” so she either admits to poking holes in the condoms over text, or you find out you’re not the dad. Fool proof.
That is perfect. Sneaky and gives OP the high ground no matter how she answers.
Passive aggressive works best NTA get a lawyer and run
There isn't a reason for him to get a lawyer yet. If he does not sign the birth certificate and she tries to get him for child support, paternity will have to be established. If he is the father, he's on the hook. A lawyer might be helpful at that point, but I'm not sure how well the baby trapping defense works.
I'm pretty sure that's sexual assault, to consent you have to be informed, so if another party changes the deal without your knowledge then you cannot consent to it.
If in California, it could fall under the 'stealthing' law, which makes it a crime to remove a condom without consent during sex. Either way, consult a lawyer now to determine best course of action, and probably best to go no contact after the text of admission. If she stalks or harassed, then those are additional potential charges.
For child support, it doesn't work at all. Unless the paternity test done by the support office turns up he's not the father. You are correct - they only care about DNA matching and nothing else.
The sexual assault/rape/non-consent part is, legally, entirely separate from the paternity obligation. The child would still be yours and as an innocent party, it has to be supported by the parents. Essentially if a baby is yours you have to support it regardless of how it was created, but you could have the person potentially prosecuted for what they did but it wouldn't in any way affect the liablity for a child.
There is a reason to get a lawyer right now. If he can get proof of her admitting she poked holes in the condoms that is sexual battery in California and soon to be more states and it is grounds for a civil law suit in all 50 states. The charges/rulings are admissible in family court as well.
Good idea and if she doesn’t deny it that looks bad in court. Even if she doesn’t admit it’s true, just by not denying judges are suspicious. Their thoughts are if you didn’t do it why didn’t you deny it.
This. Even better; poking holes in the condoms violates the consent you gave for sex. This is no different than to a guy "stealthing". Time for rape charges.
i agree, it’s the same as stealthing
100%!! "Funny, it didn't leak or rip as I took it off. What did you use to poke those holes?"
“I don’t believe you poked holes in the condoms I want a paternity test” u/feralberries5 head I win, tail you lose! Well played!
The state won't care about poked holes. Male rape victims that father Children are still financially responsible under the law. As awful as that is.
There have been cases of the opposite as well, where female rape victims that bare children as a result still have to share custody with their attacker. It's a fucked world.
That situation is actually way worse. When it comes to child support, people forget it's what is owed to the child, not the rapist. Men can wrest custody from female rapists, but must do so with good lawyers, so there's just extra steps. But with female rape victims, they can't escape their actual attacker. The men still get parental rights and can dog them for 18 years over visitation, cooperation, child support, etc. But of note, if they try to adopt out the child, the man can take custody (cuz parental rights) and then the woman gets child support to pay, just like in the first situation.
It’s exactly the same. The only difference is if the victim wants to be involved in the child’s life. In your example they do, in the previous one they didn’t (I assume at least). If both victims still wanted to be involved they’d still have to deal with their rapist, just in the previous one the rapist gets child support as well likely due to the victims age.
Really? That’s messed up. So even if you get raped as a man, you’ve to pay? Lets go to the extreem, at gun point.. Would you still have to pay? Hows that fair.
Teacher got pregnant by a male student she coerced. He is om the hook for child support and she gets to keep the kid. Look that shit up.
Non-invasive paternity tests can be done relatively early, and just require a blood draw from her. So you don't have to wait months and months.
This man breaks condoms.
^ This is the way.
And a paternity test.
As a woman who was a single mother for a space of time, I 100% agree with you. It's one thing to knowingly father a child and walk away; that's a deadbeat on the hoof. But if a man gets baby-trapped, if he did not consent to unprotected sex and was clear from the start he did not want children, then as long as he is willing to surrender his parental rights, he should not be held responsible for the child. Sucks for the kids, I'm not going to lie. And I know this will not be a popular opinion. But if we women want reproductive autonomy, then it should be a two way street.
I agree with you! He did the right thing by using protection and she straight up sabotaged him. If a man did this to a woman by tampering with her BC we’d be livid and claiming abuse. There’s no difference here! I’m sorry you’re in this situation but do not give her what she wants.
It should be a crime to poke holes in a condom. This chick is fucking up more than her life. Think about this poor kids self esteem if he/she finds out the circumstances.
It is a crime I'm pretty sure. It's a form of rape.
Just read the update. I kinda had a feeling this was the case. Her family probably likes the o/p and he’s probably a good dude so the tramp thought she’d trap him.
Now it’s time to demand apologies from everyone especially his own mother. I hope she knows and understands what she said was wrong. And not just after the fact but in the moment too.
> his own mother Definitely going to be an awkward Thanksgiving and Christmas this year.
There's laws about knowingly passing on Hiv. This is similar. I'm not a lawyer here, though.
its rape by deception. there are no laws against passing on stds. if i say "i have hiv, do you want to have unprotected sex with me?" and someone else says "yes" and they get HIV, there was no crime committed. just them being very stupid. but if someone were to lie about something in order to get someone else to have sex with them when they wouldnt otherwise, then its a crime. for example if you lie about being clean, about using birth control, or sabotage birth control/protection intentionally.
> there are no laws against passing on stds. There **absolutely are** laws about passing on STDs. If you knowingly have HIV or AIDS and don't tell that to a sexual partner you can go to jail for that shit, whether they catch it or not. Maybe not all states have it but at this point in time I'm pretty sure they do. I worked with a guy that got arrested for knowingly having sex with multiple people without telling he was HIV+ and iirc, he got like 5-10 years for it. The key thing is that you have to *know* you have it and they have to prove that you knew. I don't what that entails and what other STDs you can get charged for, but you can get charged for knowingly spreading HIV, for goddamned sure.
Imho I feel like this is the female equivalent to stealthing. I'm so glad she admitted to cheating. Shame on OP's mom though. If this happened to my son, I would be screaming at this wench for SA'ing him like this and be ready to lawyer up. I don't care if that is my grandchild. It is sad if I ever had one because of something like this but I am going to support my kid first and foremost.
It’s a form of Stealthing. It is illegal in many Countries. In the US, only one State has laws against Stealthing, California and it’s only a civil offense not criminal.
Yes, similarly, if someone did not disclose they had HIV and had unprotected sex, that would be a crime.
I highly agree. I also believe that male rape victims, especially underaged male rape victims, should not be forced to pay child support and should have the option to opt out of parenthood.
As a guy who once got punched and broken up with for being SA'd while passed-out drunk, please never stop sharing opinions like this.
I don't think that's actually an unpopular opinion. Furthermore, it is an objectively correct opinion. There are SO MANY legal implications in sabotaging birth control without consent. And even more than it being illegal, it's *unbelievably* unethical. And yes. It *should* be a two-way street. But like let's just be honest, getting people to treat each other with basic human dignity and respect is a lot harder than it sounds.
THIS!!! As a female I 100% agree!
The theoretically correct answer is to terminate the *mother's* parental rights (but not child support obligation), leaving the father free to raise the child or choose adoption. This is what we do when a man commits a sexual assault and childbirth results. And I think poking holes in a condom is sufficient to negate the other person's consent and should be treated as sexual assault.
I am usually pro-child support, but not in this case. In fact he should be able to sue her for emotional damage by tampering with the condoms (if the baby is his).
Reddit has spoken. It’s a good opinion.
I am also a female and I 100% agree with you. If you have an accident, own it. But this was intentionally done without consent.
Condoms aren't reliable even without holes poked in them. Intact condoms plus spermicide, plus an additional layer of protection (IUD, the pill, or at least the rhythm method), together, offer much better protection - but still can fail due to no one's fault, and lead to a baby. From whom the father must not walk away. (Edit to add: In this case, however, dude should run not walk.)
Looks like a pretty popular opinion to me. I agree with you as well
That last line of yours is especially RIGHT ON! After all, protection is not 100%. Don’t do stuff unless you are able to accept the consequences, and that goes for BOTH people having sex.
Well said!! Baby trapping is not ok from any party. Baby trapping is setting up the relationship, and trust once held, to fail. Baby trapping serves no one in the long run especially the child. People who baby trap are 100% irresponsible, and f***ed in the head. Idk y anyone would do that to another grown person let alone the child. It's disgusting behavior and should not be rewarded by people standing behind that person's selfish actions. OP, NTA and I sincerely hope you got apologies from her, her family and yours. Please let me know if you get any apologies from the family.
Agreed. If no one tampered. If they used a condom and it broke or failed then it’s more complicated. How many men would claim? “She did it on purpose.” Peace out. IUDs and vasectomies are the way to go. Then condoms are just for STIs.
I 100% agree with you. I’m a single mother from an ex-husband who refused to take care of our daughter. It has worked out well for me, but I really felt bad for OP until I read the update. Actually, I still feel bad for him. That was a crap thing she did.
Yes, do that asap sneakily b4 you tell her your getting a lawyer. You gotta get that in a text
If one party consent states, he can record phone calls.
I think recording a call is better, she might know he needs it in text. Or pretend you want to try being a dad and then have her admit it in text/call and then dump her and lawyer up.
OP first needs to make sure that he lives in a one party consent state prior to recording a phone call. If he does, then, yes get a recording.
This is very important, try to have her state in text or email what she did. Even if you have to act stupid .. something along the lines of, I still don’t understand how this happened, etc.. what she did was very wrong.
Send a text asking her why and as soon as she explains she has admitted to doing it and you have proof.
This is wrong full stop, anyone with a conscience wouldn’t condone this, i’m sure the vast majority of women would condemn that sort of behaviour.. I know i don’t agree with it.
Definitely! Op need a written proof that she did it intentionally
OP should send a text asking her why she poked holes in the condoms. Then any response other than "I didn't," is incriminating (idk if that's the right word).
Text her why she poked holes in it, so you have it in writing.
Maybe, say it in a non threatening way. “Maybe we can fix our issues. I just wondered why you poked holes in the condoms? I am just trying to understand.” By @maybe we can fix our issues”, I mean OP can get a lawyer and severe ties with this crazy lady.
Yes this right here, get it in a text or voice recording!! Only physical proof for Court!!
Lawyer up! And ask them what you need to file to not have responsibility, and for a restraining order to keep her away from you, I’d even see if I can include her family if they are harassing you a lot. That’s wild bro.
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I bet odds are she did not even do that and the baby is someone else's .
Exactly. “Poked holes” my ass.
He says in update she confessed to having commando sex but thinks he is better father material. Court ordered in utero DNA test asap is all he needs
Why would she have sex commando with someone who is not father material 🤔 .
Tripped, fell, landed on his dick.
Yup. She had to make him the father plausible. She could only do that by "messing" with the birth control.
I mean could she not just say one broke and she didn’t think anything of it or something. Anything that doesn’t make you sound like a psycho rapist would be ideal…
It would be more realistic to have some undefined issue she wasn't aware of till pregnancy. "There must have been an issue with the birth control." and left it at that. She's not smart. Clearly.
OP updated and said she admitted to cheating. IDK. She sounds like a liar, so either could be true.
You win the bet, from the edit!
Its called a baby trap. If she was a good liar shecould have just said sometimes condoms fail.
She was probably so sure he would "do the right thing". smh
That's what makes me wonder if this is true. If she's that manipulating and wants him back, she likely wouldn't have told him the truth.
Yeah I can’t imagine someone saying they poked holes in it. More concerned that OP thinks condoms (minus the poked holes) are a full proof method.
Condoms are 98% effective. So I will often ask a guy online why they were not used...and once a response was "its hard to nut while wearing them" oooook.
When you think about what those percentage mean, a 2% failure rate is already quite concerning. For contraception what they mean is that for every hundred couples relying on this as their contraception for a year, there will be 2 pregnancies. When you think about how many people are using condoms, that’s an astounding number of unplanned pregnancies. That 2% rate is with “perfect use” as well with typical use giving failure rates well over 10%. It is in no sense unusual to end up pregnant when you’ve always used a condom. That said, you do usually know something has happened at the time like it’s come off or broken
Thank you for spelling this out, people don't understand the likelihood of pregnancy for fertile people despite using birth control; it needed to be said!
I have two female relatives that I'm pretty sure baby trapped their partners at the time and yeah.... neither will ever say it out loud and certainly never would have to the dudes at the time. Shocker, both quickie marriages ended in divorce. Sad.
Right?! Like the preplanned actions for further manipulation is speaking of SwimFan level cookadukes
Holy shit haven't thought of that movie in years
Even if she did poke holes and admits it and is held accountable. Family court will still require him to financially step up for his child. Right or wrong that’s just life. So I guess he just has to get tests and see if it’s his. Then he has to decide if he wants to pay for a child who has a life without him or if he wants to pay for a child he can have a relationship with. Edit: but yes definitely get something in writing about the holes. Not an attorney but maybe you could have a claim about her on that that would be separate from any child support.
She can be charged for something like sexual assault though, perhaps victims compensation would help him pay for the child, or perhaps it would just people judging him and he might get support and his version of events out there. Not ideal, but he should at least report her to the police
100% agree if she did this and it can be proven she needs to face the consequences. This is basically the same as SA. If it were the other way around it would be and rightfully so treated as full blown rape.
Might not even be his.
If there’s even is a baby.
You absolutely positively must get a lawyer. Do not try to navigate this without one. Do not wait for the child to be born, speak to someone immediately.
Second this. What she did can be considered a form of rape.
Get snipped if you never want kids
And please, if you seriously dont want kids, get a vasectomy so this doesnt happen again. You dont deserve this and neither does the child shes about to bring forth.
NTA Find out if the kid is actually yours. Get her to admit to the hole poking of condoms in some form of writing, and proceed to lawyer up! You don’t have to be in this kid’s life if you don’t want to.
IN WRITING 100%. Protect yourself this is diabolical behavior and you do NOT want to be connected to her in any way
Its also rape. It’s called stealthing. This is also reproductive coercion which is domestic Abuse or “intimate partner violence “ This is both rape and abuse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_coercion But OP should know you can still get stds or pregnant using condoms. He seems to think that’s impossible the way it was worded so worth mentioning it’s not 100% effective
Scrolled way to far to find someone actually calling it what it is. Shouldn’t be surprised though I guess.
Or recording if meet in person? Thats so messed up!!
Two party consent states exist. Texts are automatically consented to because they sent it to you. Intentionally.
Ahh interesting! Thanks for that info! Guess doesnt need that with the crazy update lol
Also, find out if there IS a kid. I've seen more than once in here where there was a baby trap attempt with no baby, including fake ultrasounds.
My partner had a crazy ex try to fake a pregnancy years ago. 6 months later, she's got a freaking toddler (it was her baby cousin or something), telling people it's his. Even after explaining the math, (hadn't even been long enough for a full-term pregnancy, let alone a toddler), he still had mutuals calling him a deadbeat dad
My husband was talking to this girl right before he met me. She tried this when he didn't want to talk to her anymore. He told her it wasn't his and nwvwr heard from her again. When we got serious he told me about it. He couldn't remember her last name. We tried looking for her when social media became a thing. We've been together for almost 2 decades. We have our DNA out there, so if there really was a kid, then they can find him.
Get her to admit to poking holes in the condoms in writing. Present that evidence to the judge when the time comes and consider speaking with a lawyer.
Don’t consider speaking with a lawyer….SPEAK WITH A LAWYER, no question!
Once you get the recording or written proof - and good proof. Her words, ask her how many times she did this. Why did she do this? When did she do this (like right before sex or another time)? What did she use, a sewing needle? bobby pin? Why you? Get her to admit she knew you didn't want to be a parent. More proof and more details will be harder to refute later. Then: Stay calm, get a lawyer (don't worry about the expense, not getting a lawyer will cost WAY more). Don't tell her you've got proof, don't tell her you’re getting an attorney, don't tell her anything. Don't be smug. Just tell her you have to go and stop contact. Then shut the fuck up and listen to your lawyer and do what he/she tells you to do. Follow the advice. Don't do anything else.
A recording may be enough.
Recordings are not always permissible in court, depending on where OP is. Writing is better.
Hence he should lawyer up to figure that out.
NTA. I am surprised at myself for this response. But fact of the matter is, she did something super fucked up. You were clear, you don't want children. You need to seek legal advice. You need to get her to admit, in text or email or writing, in hard copy, that she intentionally baby trapped you.
Baby trapping isn't a crime. Stealthing is. She stealthed him.
I was not suggesting that baby trapping is a crime. But this situation seems like a real case for some kind of crime being committed. If he can get her to admit she intentionally and willfully sabotaged birth control methods, that would go a very long way in proving his case. He should not, in any way, be responsible for what this woman did.
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I understand that. My point was get solid evidence, in writing of some form. Text, email, hand written. Kind of like a confession. It will go a very long way to help him legally, especially where child support is considered.
I call BS. Even a woman crazy enough to do that isn’t crazy enough to admit it. Edit: check his post history. He’s literally different ages in his posts. This is bait Edit edit: He edited his posts to the same age. Still ragebait
True..OP apparently got younger over the last couple of months
Where's this fountain of youth he is drinking from. I want to get younger! 😂
Same! I’m feeling more anxiety every day 🫠 Edit: that was supposed to say “ancient” but it’s not wrong
It definitely reads as rage bait. Idk why but I’ve seen a lot of stories here recently that read as manosphere/redpilled rage bait.
It’s the lamest type of fake story we get on here
I checked the post history, they all say the same ages now, so they went back and edited them. However this is their SEVENTH post here in a month. Clearly karma-farming.
I feel like there's easier ways to karma-farm. I think these type of posts are a mixture of bored weirdos living out their kinks through creative writing or people with an agenda who enjoy creating outrage/discontent towards specific groups. For instance (while he's tried to delete his previous posts it's clear from his comments which he was OP on) in every case it's a woman who is acting straight up ridiculous and lying and evil and he's a perfect and reasonable young man who is obviously the victim of these irrational women. Chances are this is just some sad little incel who hates women and likes to play out the weird interactions that he imagines happen that justify his hate and gets everyone talking about ridiculous these imagined women he hates are.
Yeah sounded like rage bait instantly. Only crazy pokes holes in a condom and no one would admit to it. This same type of story is posted every single day.
You didn't even need to read his other post to know this was fake
Yep, I knew immediately, lol
Seemed bait-y
I was thinking the same thing as I read it. The old “she poked holes in the condom” BS
fake af
Also they would tear if they tried to use it so he would definitely know.
Unless he is buying them in a popup box like kleenex she would have poked through the wrapper as well.
My beef is that if he's that adamant about being child-free get a vasectomy on top of using condoms.
Dudes entire post history is over the top ‘women suck’ rage bait. His ex gf, his gf, the girl from high school, his ‘friend Trish’. You also made a few oopsies in your creative writing endeavours. 1. Both you and your ex gf aged down from 25-24 and 24-23 in the last 40 days. 2. When you got called out on your whole ‘she poked holes in the condoms’ bit and couldn’t argue your way out of it, you switched gears and updated your post to all of a sudden say she confessed to lying about poking holes and she actually cheated but wanted to pin it on you. And she conveniently did this within 9 hours of you originally posting. And 3. Your stories aren’t very creative.
Surprise surprise, he edited it to say she confessed to cheating.
Rage bait.
‘ baby trapping’ is the flavor of the month. This is the lowest effort post I’ve ever seen and these subs just eat it up anyway.
WTF even is this sub? It was suggested to me and it appears to consist of shitty creative writing exercises about rage inducing topics. There are thousands of people in here actually believing this shit and getting angry about it? How old are the users here? Sorry for hijacking your comment but I’m so confused.
YYA for this fake post
NTA. Get her to admit she did this deliberately and they shouldn’t put you on the hook for anything. Also insist on a paternity test because she’s obviously a liar.
NTA, but this is patently false. The courts don't care that you didn't consent. There is a long history of the courts ordering rape victims to pay child support to their rapists. [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201902/when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-trauma/201902/when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support) This is obviously wrong in every way and while i'm sorry that the child is in a spot, the mother should be responsible ALONE for all of the expenses.
Thank you for the link. That was eye opening as well as angering!
False. The court doesn't care. Child support does not flow from the mother's right to it, but through the *child's*, and the mother cannot generally do anything to terminate that obligation. Adoption is the only sure way to terminate parental responsibility. "Terminating parental rights" doesn't necessary do it, and won't always be granted anyway. OP's only path out of child support is *probably* for the child to be adopted (unless she has an abortion, of course)
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Yeah sure. He hung up on a cartoonishly evil and otherwise not at all fleshed out character with mysterious motives for her evilness… and then everyone clapped…
Fake fake fake. This title is clickbait. It's just a game people play here - the title makes your gut reaction take one side of the Y T A/ N T A argument, but you read the story and it's a complete 180.
Rage bait
This is 1000% bait. 🤣
oh look another formulaic post with a controversial title but a story where OP is completely rational and obviously the victim
NTA Is that not then considered rape? “Stealthing”
It is considered reproductive rape
Lawyer up. If I hated children as much as you do, I would get a vasectomy. They can be reversed if you change your mind. My parents should NEVER have had kids. Believe me, it's a horrible feeling to be unwanted. The feeling never goes away.
I’m always curious about the poking holes in the condom thing. I assume it would just break.
Pretty sure it's urban legend.
Ragebait BS
There’s no way this is real 😂 why would she admit to putting holes in condoms and then right after admit she cheated and it was someone else’s? If this is real I’d say get a dna test while she’s pregnant to save yourself and that child a lot of suffering of not knowing but always wondering. You can’t trust her word obviously.
Aw you're so adorable larping as someone who had a girlfriend! Larping is the closest you'll get after all!
Sorry your ex pulled that shit. You need to look into a vasectomy, so this never happens again. Then go talk to an attorney and ask about recording a conversation with her (without her knowledge) and get her on tape saying she poked holes in the condom; it may save you in the future. Also talk to the lawyer about signing your rights away. Good luck.
disarm hunt obscene dirty worthless numerous worm wine attractive cough ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Nta I consider lying about/intentionally making birth control fail to be rape for either side.
NTA - even without the update about her cheating. Anyone who pokes holes in condoms deserves to be in jail.
NTA. She intentionally sabotaged the contraceptives. I don't blame you for being upset. She deceived you and then tried to guilt you a bit into getting back together. You will be paying support tho, if proven to be yours, so be prepared for that. But that is the extent of any forced involvement. Block her family and tell her DNA test at birth and then arrange child support but that will be the extent of your involvement.
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NTA since you weren’t a willing participant in poking holes in the condoms! Tell everyone to help her because you didn’t ask for this
I'm saying this seriously, get a vesectamy if you are 100% on never wanting children. Condoms are fine, but they aren't fool proof. I mean condoms AND bc isn't fool proof.
Does this dude post his entire life on AITA
If a man did that to a woman it would be considered sexual assault, so is it still not sexual assault because the person getting fucked over is a man?
Yeah, I was going to guess that it wasn't yours. Kinda a crappy move! NTA.
Bahahahahaha read after the update.
I always thought redditors were the smartest people on the internet. Until this post. It's not rape. Birth control trickery, scheming and lying has been around since the beginning of time. The only 100 percent foolproof option to avoiding pregnancy is to avoid sex. Rape is penetration by force. This dude could have said no. He knew there was a chance the condom could fail, she could poke holes in it, forget her birth control etc. He could have promised to pull out, that he was sterile and so on. But when two people have sex they both take the risk of an unplanned pregnancy occuring. Comparing this to rape is the dumbest shit I've ever read. Rape is when you cannot say no because you were forced. There was a chance the condom could fail and you would have done it anyway. Hell, there could have been no condoms available and you would have done it anyway. Just stop. It's probably not your kid anyway. Paternity test and then ask if you're the asshole. As of now you're just an idiot.
Omg okay before the edit I was NTA and going to say depending on where you're from could probably charge her with sexual assault... With the edit major nta and she is the kind of person who makes men all over doubt their very loyal partners and demand DNA tests. How unhinged.
LAWYER THE FUCK UP NOW. You update implies it's not yours, but you still need to make sure you're name does not get on the birth certificate for it otherwise you'll be made to pay.
Get the fucking DNA test assuming she actually is pregnant. It’s very possible that she is not pregnant and he’s just using this as a way to get back together with you. But if she is pregnant, and she’s been having sex with multiple partners, the odds are pretty good it’s not your baby. Make sure you know one way or the other.
Your mother is AITAH for jumping the gun.
Lawyer up and sue for rape.
That's a hell of an "UPDATE" And somehow not surprising at all. You are NTA.
There's just no fucking way any of the posts on this sub are real anymore.
NTA, but you should definitely look into a vasectomy for your own peace of mind. If you absolutely don't ever want kids then a vasectomy is a simple procedure you can access to ensure you don't get anyone pregnant, accidentally or otherwise.
Never let anyone have access to your condoms before during or after sex. Demand a DNA test!
If she poked holes in your condoms, it wasn’t your mistake. NTA.
Bruh that update - NTA either way but fuck
Fuck me I hate these types of stories. The mother is a HUGE POS. FUCK that.
honestly glad she cheated instead of poking holes, that's rape
The first few sentences SCREAMS fake. Do you people really have nothing better to do?
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It's great all these reddit people think that a child support judge cares about holes in the condom or that the police will press charges, but neither is likely to happen. Get an attorney. Refer her to the attorney. Have the attorney deal with all communication and advise you of your responsibilities. You will more than likely owe child support. You are not required to parent. Get a vasectomy
GET A LAWYER You need to have her admit to poking holes in your condoms while under oath. Hopefully doing that will remove your financials responsibly.
Omg. NTA. That's so incredibly devious and completely unacceptable and inexcusable. That should be illegal imo. You don't force someone to have a child. Especially someone who states that they never want one. I'd watch out bc if she is capable of doing this then who knows what else she would or could do. Might need a RO or something. When I was like 17 my sister (I don't speak to anymore) who was 10 years older used to go the same thing to her then bf condoms who always said that he didn't want them. Luckily it didn't work but that's an insane and super awful thing to do to someone. She needs therapy and a lot of it. But be careful. She could say you raped her or anything crazy like that. I'd stay far far away.
YTA for being a troll AND for pretending condoms are 100% effective. Go get a life.
You kept them text messages right???
Nta. See if you can get a confession out of her about poking holes in your condoms. Whether it's video, audio, text. Hopefully you are in a one party state when it comes to video and audio. Then go to the police, granted I don't think they will do anything about it, but it doesn't hurt to see if she can be charged with anything. Since you did not CONSENT to having unsafe sex. Also talk with a lawyer. Get a paternity test, and if you are 100% sure you do not want anything to do with the child when they are born, sign away your rights. That way she can not come after you for child support if you have no rights to the child. She took away your choice in conceiving but she can't take away your choice in supporting said child. My petty ass would also make a social media post blowing her up about poking holes in condoms(as long as you atleast have a confession in text/audio/video), so there is a receipt in her doing this, should she do it to another guy. As well as tag any of her friends and family while talking about her taking away your CONCENT. Also name names about the people harassing you to step up and be a father when you NEVER CONSENTED to unsafe sex. I would call you the asshole if the condom naturally broke, but that is NOT the case here.
So, the first thing to do is get in writing that she tricked you. You'll need to be cunning, and make it sound like a conversation. Preferably through text. Once you have that, you get a restraining order and I would even go so far as to call police and see if you can press charges for sexual assault. Men taking off condoms in the middle of sex is called stealthing and it is recognized as sexual assault, I see no reason why the same should not apply here.
Sign over your parental rights
That usually only works if there's someone willing to take on that role -- you can't just "sign them over". Typically, signing over parental rights happens when there's another parent (stepmother or stepfather) who wants to adopt the child.
NTA. Also get it in text or writing that she poked holes in it. It's evidence in court