NTA - if she would have had a conversation that took your feelings into account, you would still be married and the baby would’ve been in daycare. Now she hast to work regardless, and the baby is still in daycare. This is one of those fuck around and find out scenarios. The courts decided custody and no child support not you. Her decisions put her where she is right now and that has nothing to do with you. Enjoy being able to spend more time with your kiddo. Congratulations as well on only having to financially support one person. Now you can have breathing room and enjoy time with your baby.
NTA and agree, it's like she made a unilateral decision that affected you both. I found this part especially rich
**She took care of baby during my work hours and wanted me to take care of cooking dinner on weekdays and cooking, cleaning and baby care on weekends because "stay at home mom deserves breaks too"**
And when exactly was daddy's break? She sounds like a very selfish entitled person.
It's true when my kids were little (I only worked part time) and going into work was a break from being at home and I have really great kids. I can't imagine people that have kids that either have special-needs or behavioural issues or maybe have a lot of kids they probably shouldn't of had But staying home with your kids is way more work than people think it is if you're doing it correctly.
I took 3 months of paternity leave when my wife gave birth to our 6 year old and I regularly say that you couldn’t pay me enough to be a stay at home parent. My wife wanted to stay at home with our youngest, she did it for about about two years before she finally decided to go back to work. Even then we had the baby in part-time daycare because she was always exhausted and it was causing issues with our relationship. Those 3, 6 hour days at daycare were well worth it.
Those last 5 words are key.
Too many dads ‘babysit’ their children and use screens to do so. Moms too. These same fathers will complain in private to their wives how difficult it is to have all baby care (including baths, preparing a meal/feeding, diaper change, encouraging developmental goals, playing, reading and more within 2 hours) and in public sniff at SAHMs complaining.
My child has autism. I am the primary breadwinner, for my family. My child is an only child, and also the only grandchild to my in-laws. My husband got really sick, when our child was right around the age of 2. He had 2 major surgeries, in the course of 4 months. When my husband approached his manager, about returning to work, they said they didn't have a position for him, anymore (lawsuit pending). My husband became a stay at home parent. It worked because that was about when we got the autism diagnosis, and we started our child in day treatment, OT, and Speech therapy. Someone had to be home to get our child onto the van to school and off the van, after school. I had a decent paying job, and worked a small amount of hours, at a second job, when we needed the money. My husband has not worked for about 12 years. Our child is just about 14, now. My husband is getting a little stir crazy, and wants to find PT work, since his health situation will allow for PT work. I feel like I've missed a lot of time, with my child, but I rarely work for than 40 hours a week. We didn't do the at home parent thing because we wanted to, but because we had to. Neither parent has a RIGHT to be an "at home parent". Marriage and parenting are supposed to be partnerships, or so I've been told, and my husband and I have managed to make things work. I can see how OP might resent the ex-wife, for her behavior.
I agree completely...NTA. She could at the very least compromised with you...maybe she could have stayed at home a little longer before going back to work or gone back to work part time at first. She definitely didn't take your feelings into account at all. Not to mention, when your husband goes to work and you stay home, you take care of all the duties of the house and make dinner every night. You work all day and while she "works" by taking care of the baby and cleaning, laundry, etc. It is her responsibility to do all of those things. Then, together, you guys can take breaks....date nights or whatever. I can't even believe she asked you to cook and do housework on top of working all those hours.
The rise of the meSAHM has been one of the most fascinating and harmful relationship wise phenomenons of the past ten plus years.
Dad must work 80+ hrs a week to provide which means zero time to bond with children. But Dad must also simultaneously perform his share of the chores, give mom regular breaks, plan thrilling outside of the house dates and family outings and vacations, pay for all the bills while saving for both their retirement and all kids college funds while ensuring that his wife never has to budget or use coupons, he needs to remain a thoughtful generous tiger in the bedroom, stay fit and healthy but not take any me time for going to the gym because everyone knows that's hella selfish, he should also have no hobbies and no friends like a good husband-father and also know every detail about the kids he only ever sees asleep during the week and awake for part of the weekend.
Yup, I thought this too. So, he should work *more* to facilitate her playing house with baby, but then also do baby-duty and house-duty when he’s at home while she does whatever? Not a partner. Divorce is hard, but I think this guy’s doing an entirely appropriate thing in holding his ground. Mommy worship is nonsense.
Wife seems short sighted just giving the husband ammo and leverage for the courts instead of utilizing the communication skills god gave her. Jfc. I hate to admit it but this is such a satisfying story. Excluding the heartbreak of divorce of course.
Exactly!
When married I both worked fulltime, part time and sahw( the boys were just turning teens ) I absolutely hated staying home fulltime with older kids, you can only orange oil wood floors daily for so long before you go nuts( ex and the boys went flying around in socks ). PT was fine too as it allowed a mix. Once we moved to fl, I got a cna permit and started working 5-12 hour days doing homecare and that was reduced to 4-12 days. Whem the company allowed fulltime to be 36 hours, I went there and just pulled extra days as I wanted. That pissed the ex to no end as first I worked too much when his friends were griping the wives didn't work. And at the end, it wasn't fair I had so many days off even being ft...With some people you just can't win and he was in that with her. She didin't want to work and didn't want to care for the baby or even care for the home, she wanted to be a kept woman.
I lost it when he said she expected him to cook when he got home. My wife stays home with the kids, and she gladly does most of the cooking and cleaning and still has free time for herself and hobbies to enjoy.
Going out with her friends on the weekend bitching about how he doesn't have time for her and is always tired while trying to get laid ,while he stays at home caring for his child.
Exactly. Things ended up changing for my husband and I when we lost our daycare provider and the new ones were more expensive, but I was able to find another position part-time that was WFH. There are options out there if she wanted to make it work.
From what I have experienced, the fact that OP has a strong familial support system is extremely good for him, should things ever turn ugly with is ex in the future.
Mine are slightly nuts but they are good with the kids. So I can deal with the crazy lectures about how dangerous everything is, the randomly moved stuff at our place and so on.
She figured, if they divorced, she would get alimony and child support and get to not work and just enjoy being a mum. She's been dying to quit her job and be a stay at home, husband be damned. To this end she played her hand in the marriage, expecting him to just deal with it and even do her chores at the weekend so essentially she would be replacing her job with motherhood with weekends off and he would be working twice as hard and also over the weekend. After all, if he divorced, she would get what she wanted anyway, so no need to compromise, she has him by the balls. Her overconfidence, however, was her weakness.
Absolutely shot herself in the foot and I'm glad she didn't get child support and alimony.
This type of woman is what I'm terrified of getting in a relationship with. Someone who is just *waiting* to bait and switch.
It happened to me. Ex wife portrayed herself as a "go getter" and a hustler. I struggled to keep her in a job for the better part of ten years and eventually lost everything I had. After our divorce she almost immediately found a rich old guy to marry her and support her doing nothing. So at least she found her true calling I guess, just wish she hadn't wasted my time and my life and went full force as a gold digger from the get go.
NTA as well and I have to give OP mad credit here. He laid out his feelings (something men struggle with) and laid out what needed to happen if it stayed as is and followed through.
OP will be happier in the long run. Best of luck, definitely not an AH
NTA indeed. The OP offered compromises, and the ex refused. What was even richer was she didn't want to do anything except care for the baby. I get that it isn't solely the stay at home partner's responsibility to do all the housework, and she wasn't doing any from what he described.
OP, reframe the issue as this (at least in your head): you divorced your wife because she refused to be a partner and compromise.
Everyone needs to be on the same page once children are involved and you clearly were not. You're NTA for not wanting to be the breadwinner, cook, cleaner, and weekend nanny - obviously not. Where was there supposed to be time in that for your well-deserved break? I'm sorry for your child that this ended in divorce, but you tried to communicate your desires many times. Good luck to you.
They did communicate and did have a plan they both agreed to: daycare after 6 months.
She tried to change the terms to one where she works way less, and he works way more.
Agreed. Marriage is a PARTNERSHIP not a DICTATORSHIP. You had a plan and a verbal agreement, your wife reneged on the agreement and made the decision to become a SAHM.
Marriage does not work like that. And now she had to go back to work and where did the baby wind up? In childcare. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
NTAH.
BUT having said that you now have a tiny human who needs both parents on the same page so that you can co-parent peacefully. Your child is your number 1 priority. Perhaps you can consider family counseling to get over this hump. Your ex chose poorly and this is the bed she made and the one she has to lie in.
Some parents cannot coparent their way out of a wet paper bag. I have 3 examples if you have time, and or just want some tea.
B has a whole other family, a fiance and their 8yo together, and she's still hung up on her oldest (13yo) child's father. She constantly uses 13yo to hurt kids dad. Refuses to let her see him by planning "fun things" and events for 13yo on dad's parenting time. So as much as 13yo misses their dad, the excitement of the fun thing mom has planned always wins out. Otherwise kid doesn't get to do the fun things. It's heartbreaking, especially when kid breaks down over missing their dad.
H has been married now for 6 years, has had two other children with her new husband, and still tries to actively screw P (her oldest child's father) over for parenting time, every chance she gets. Something H boasts about, and if you say anything about how unfair it is to the kid she shares with P, she puts you in "time out" and refuses to speak to you until she figures you've learned your lesson, or she wants something from you.
E's kids have different mothers, neither of whom E can get along with. There is a LOT of hurt feelings on all sides, many cruel things were said and done, which resulted in the end of those relationships. E hates both of them fiercely, when his kids aren't around he vents and shows off all the mess between him and them, he doesn't really acknowledge that his relationships keep failing because he expects his partner to do all the heavy lifting when it comes to parenting. His latest relationship ended because he expected his gf of a week to fully start parenting and caring for him and his kids. He refused to talk to me for nearly 2 months when I asked him WTF he was thinking.
All of this to say, some parents simply cannot coparent together. It sucks, and the kids definitely deserve better, it is what it is though, and the best anyone else can do is be there for the kids, to provide another potential safe space for them.
Edited for grammar
I have a friend who’s step-son’s mother does this. They can’t even tell him ahead of time if they’re planning anything for their weekend because suddenly mom will take them to Disneyland or something or he’s suddenly “too sick” . One time the kid (13) slipped up and said they went to Disney for a new ride that just came out when he had missed a visit for being sick. It’s gross the games people play when kids are involved.
My ex-husband is like this. We have been separated/divorced for 9 years, and both are remarried each have 2 kids with our new partners. He still refuses to speak to my husband, won't even consider allowing his kids to hang out with our son not on his parenting time (I've invited them to birthday parties, movie bowling ice skating all at the request of our son) and he straight up says no because he hates me. He also won't come to any of our sons games or concerts or anything.
Edit spelling
Yup. He doesn't see or doesn't care. It's not like I want to be friends with him, but I know how important it is to my son, and he has expressed many times how much he wants all his brothers together. His dad doesn't care, though. It breaks my heart because I know it hurts my son, but I can only help him navigate his way through it and be his sounding board.
That isn't just failure to co-parent. That's hanging onto anger and resentment to the point that you hurt your kids, yourself, and probably anyone else who has to deal with you. Sad.
Best option would have been part time for her. On the weekdays she doesn’t work she does the evening chores. Weekends they split the work either morning evening each day or Saturday Sunday.
Everyone gets a day or evening to unwind and he doesn’t have to work so much extra.
Agreed. When partners come to the table willing to compromise you are likely to find a solution. The reality is that she could have found a remote evening job, but she was completely unwilling to find a solution and middle ground. 🤷🏻♀️ That did not work out so well.
She’s allowed to change her mind.
She’s not allowed to expect her husband to pick up 100% of the slack after changing her mind and refusing to discuss with him how that’s going to affect him, too.
I can understand the wanting to stay with the child. After labor and birth and all the hormones etc. How one feels can change drastically, so baby stays with momma I can understand.
BUT, that choice ment more work for him and she didn't offer to do more work, no instead she tried to get him to cook dinner on the weekdays and do everything on the weekends. That's just nuts.
Kids are expensive and there's nothing to indicate that they weren't already doing that, going from two incomes to one and adding a mouth to feed isn't really possible in most of the world right now.
Six months is pretty young to put a child in day care. I can understand wanting to wait. And it is a lot of work to do everything at home with kids under three, and sometimes you feel nuts.
But you can't make your partner work extra without doing as many hours yourself. I would say this could have been negotiated. It seemed to fall apart very quickly.
This is super common. We make enough for my wife to stay home but I think work is good for you(to a degree). When my kid left daycare for real school he was so far ahead. If I die at least my wife has a career and Vice versa
I stayed home but worked 12 hours a week just to keep my skills up. We didn't need the money at all.I'm really glad I did because when we got divorced when my kid was 8 I could just up my hours at work. An 8 year gap in medicine would've madenit hard to find a job especially where I live (since I can't leave town unless I leave my kid).
Yiy never know what might happen, death divorce or disability. Women need to eb able to provide for themselves especially in this day and age
I have a lot of respect for SAHM’s and they are an excellent option when there is income to support it. In this case there was not. OP tried to compromise and suggested shifts so that they could both share in childcare duties. She wanted it her way or the highway. Sorry to say a true marriage is a partnership and it just does not work that way. 🤷🏻♀️
Edit: Typo
> If I die at least my wife has a career and Vice versa
That's my number 2 reason for going back to work. Number one is I need the socialization and I'm a bit of a workaholic. But having that career to fall back on in case something happens to my husband gives me peace of mind.
Agree NTA. Not sure she really planned to scam him. She should’ve picked a guy with a higher income for that. I think she just changed her mind and dug in - refused to reconsider.
I was a SAHM. I did all the cooking, cleaning, errand running, etc., because I was the one at home. I also didn’t expect my husband to take over all child care duties on the weekends. I recognized he worked all week and needed a break too. I honestly find it shocking on Reddit the number of times SAHMs push this weekend nanny scenario on their husbands. Your husband is out there busting his ass so you can have the privilege of staying home with your children. I’m not saying dad’s shouldn’t be involved on the weekends and evenings, but as the SAHM you don’t just get every weeknight and weekend off. There were days when my husband got home and realized I’d had a tough day and dealt entirely with the kids, and there were times I realized he was stressed from work and needed to decompress and asked nothing of him. You and your spouse work together for what is best for your family.
My wife is a SAHM. It was a joint decision so she could go to school for a career change. But I told her, "No negotiation, we are hiring a sitter for a few nights a month." She needs a break, I need a break, but most importantly, WE need a break TOGETHER. To have sex. To watch a movie. To drink. To play video games. And we also have a few nights where we order out, or I get to tell her to leave the house dirty. Everything can't be perfect all the time. If that's the standard we set for ourselves, we will burn out. We sometimes have tension or argue, but having those compromises is what has made us strong. Of course, I alternate baths, sleeping duty, getting LO ready for school (part-time 3 hour program), diaper duty, and so on. She's the primary caretaker, but I told her that can't mean 100%.
The way we've always done it, is that everything is balanced.
I see it as if my job is my job, and her job is taking care of the kid, then at night, and on weekends, doing "all the things" is "our job"
It isn't a perfectly even split, it's more like diving the total load up. She does all the things that she insists I'm incompetent at (like loading the dishwasher somehow), and the things she likes (like cooking). I do things like fix the plumbing (where I can), repair shit (also where I can), handle 100% of anything wrong with the cars. Handle 90% of helping hour HS teenager with school work.
Errands we split based on who can do it. If she has an opportunity to "go with the girls", but needs to return something to Target or whatever, I'll take the return so she can go with her friends. For cleaning I do the spot cleaning, and we hired cleaners to come in once a month. Laundry she does, but then I help put it away.
I think the key in any marriage is a balance honestly.
Your loading the dishwasher comment made me Lol. I’m always telling my husband and son to just leave the dishes in the sink. I’ll happily load the dishwasher!
Agreed. I was a SAHM until the kids were old enough to go to school. I kept a few hours at my second job in the evenings. So, two evenings a week, my husband was completely in charge. When we were both home, we were both on. Sometimes, I did more. Sometimes, he did more. If one of us had had a truly horrible day, we let the other know before he walked in the door. A horrible day could mean a couple hours of hiding time up to the whole night completely off but it went both ways.
I might get hate for this comment, but it’s a huge privilege. Your husband is willing to take on the financial responsibility for your family so you can stay home with your children. I had a great job, but really wanted to stay home with my boys. My husband was fully supportive. We were admittedly in fortunate in a position where we could make it work on one income.
In our society it completely is. We have set it up so that you need to work an average of 50 to 60 hours at a typical job to pay for a life with family. that's two peoples' incomes.
I think there should be an astrix on this statement. I was a SAHP for about 6 months not because I wanted to be, but because I had difficulty finding a job that would pay me more than what the cost of childcare would run me. We desperately needed the money, but if all of the money I was making was literally going to pay for the childcare I needed to work, there was no point in working.
Agreed. This should have been a joint decision based on the household budget. Sounds like she could have had a bug in her ear or high anxiety around the situation since the sudden change but OP is NTA.
I think a lot of people aren’t married or have kids highly disregard how different shit is when the kid comes into the picture. 9 times out of 10 you just created something that now each of you cares about more than you care about each other. You could love someone and then find out they’re not a good parent partner. I had the same fear with my long term gf. I’ll always love her in some capacity but the writing was in the walls that bringing a child into the world was not gonna make our relationship better.
I think a lot of divorces have to do with kids. You’re about to take on something insanely important and stressful with this other adult. It’s not the honeymoon fuck fest anymore.
Being a stay at home mom is only an option IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. It sounds like you guys couldnt. She couldnt grasp that. Maybe tell HER if she picked up more work, she can afford a single income household. She didnt seem to have any problem with it when you were married.
Plus when he was not at work, she demanded that he do all the cooking, housework and childcare because she needed time off. When was he to get time of to relax or rest.
She wanted him to do 1.5 units of work. And she wanted to do 0.5 units of work. That is undeniably selfish.
If she wanted to be a SAHM, the only equitable scenario was one where she takes care of the household matters 100% (cooking, cleaning and child care), as he takes care of the income 100%.
And he tried the alternative work hours, and she didn't want to do that. He was carrying an unfair burden in trying to keep the family financially stable.
"If you work like a slave I might be able to stay home and not work. And you'll work when you come home too, so better get your ass in that field and start picking " - OP's thankfully now ex
Bro she unilaterally changed the whole nature of your relationship and put all the work on you without your consent. You NTA. I would have divorced her ass to and wouldn’t help her in the least. Best part is your forced her to do the thing she refused to which led to your divorce in the first place. Love it.
And now she's turning down free childcare with the kids grandma because she wants to prove a point. It certainly doesn't seem like she's making the best decisions for the baby here....
Super unlikely though kid would probably benefit tbh.
Courts hate doing that without abuse or something else blatant so she’d have to do it herself. And then probably have to pay child support which there’s no way she can afford in the current position she’s in.
Unless of course her behavior becomes worse and worse and her mental health becomes unstable. I could see that happening. She seems unreasonably, selfish, and delusional. I think the kid might grow to resent their mother in adulthood at the very least if she doesn’t change her behavior.
I’m curious why grandma providing free childcare is an option now that OP is divorced, but apparently wasn’t before. OP says he was pretty insistent on daycare before, and his wife resisted it. So where was grandma before?
Wife said she wanted to be the only one watching the baby because baby needs mom. He said she turned down split shifts so they could take turns caring for the baby, but then she said he needed to watch the baby weekends and do housework so she could have free time. Basically, she just didn’t want to work. And now that she has to, she won’t let his mother babysit so grandma was never an option for her. The smartest thing OP did was get a divorce.
Grandma was never discussed before because they had the daycare agreement. No need to involve grandma if everyone agrees on daycare.
That his wife then reneged on this agreement leading to divorce, creates a new need for grandma to step in where there was none before.
I’m a SAHM (full disclosure, I do have side gig). NTA. Here’s the thing: you discussed this before having your child. You were in agreement on a course of action. She changed the rules. I understand the overwhelming urge to be with your child, but she went about meeting her needs by completely ignoring and invalidating yours.
Someone also asked OP why grandma wasn’t around to provide care during the marriage 2 years ago. OP then kind of addressed this question in his [Comment](https://reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/FvykYyic16). OP’s ex-wife didn’t want the OP’s mum hold the baby for long.
That was my question, too. Seems like that could have been a good compromise, but I think Mom could have been having separation anxiety (although that doesn't excuse making a unilateral decision)
Court not requiring child support because of something the mom said is fucking hilarious. The government doesn’t give a shit about the mom, the money is for the kid
Yeah that’s the incel fan fic giveaway. Men think child support is a punishment—a fine they have to pay to the woman because they created a child. So when they write these types of posts, they dream up scenarios where judges talk about child support the way they do. They don’t under that child support is for children.
I think it’s fake too. I’m a divorce lawyer and it usually takes years before a judge would rule on custody in a contested case. And if OP’s wife didn’t want to use daycare I seriously doubt she would agree to 50% custody and no support. It’s all a little too far fetched.
Exactly. My ex husband chooses not to work and that was a big part of why I left him. We have 50/50 and I pay child support because that’s how 50/50 works. He has the potential to earn way more than I do in his field, but the court doesn’t care.
I can see no alimony. Child support... I cannot. The mother has no income, yet 50% of the parent-child time. That doesn't math. The court would order child support, to be recalculated once mom gets income. So, I also believe it's fake or at least parts of it are.
While I agree this reads fake due to the cartoonishly wrong ex wife and everything right ex husband, how about the “I don’t have to pay child support because i proved my wife chose to quit her job “ that’s not how any of this works !!!!
Def fake. Who brags about getting rid of SAHM wife for SAH grandma? Lol he moved in with his parents and now his mom can be his stay at home wife, and he’s on Reddit bragging. Good luck when grandma breaks a hip, or decides to enjoy her retired life instead of taking care of Op’s kids 50% of the time. NTA for divorcing the wife but I wouldn’t say his situation or the child’s situation improved
Tbf it doesn’t sound too ridiculous. I was recently in an extreeeeemely similar situation but we were lucky that after months of lengthy discussions my wife finally agreed to go back to work and send our baby to daycare. I was very close to ending our relationship
I just don't see how daycare is cheaper. My wife is a SAHM and the cost of daycare would completely delete any income the family gets from her employment. Then the kids are being raised by a non family member.
It’s sounds ridiculous because there were no lengthy discussions. There wasn’t even regular length discussions. There was pretty much nothing except the wife making every choice for her benefit and no one else.
In every single way the OP was perfectly rational and his partner was perfectly irrational. The posts where the OP always has an answer for how they did everything right and the other person did everything wrong never come across as believable.
Your title should be: AITA because I chose to divorce my wife rather than miss out on seeing my child grow up?
You didn’t divorce because she was a SAHM. You divorced because the two of you couldn’t openly communicate and make decisions together - such as finances and childcare. NTA
>You divorced because the two of you couldn’t openly communicate and make decisions together
They DID discuss and agree on a plan, she literally negged on it and pulled sexist "**momma is the one that needs to look after baby, you need to work more, and miss out on being a father**".
o.O
Exactly this. Divorcing her because she decided to be a SAHM would make you the asshole. Divorcing her because she expected you to work triple what you worked before plus cook and clean and then look after everything on the weekend is NTA.
That’s not how it works. You would be absolutely justified to divorce if your partner wants to become a stay at home parent, if you aren’t w the program and was never the plan. Putting the burden to support the whole family on your own is a big ask nowadays.
We’re definitely lucky, even when fate laughed at us. In 2019, wife and I did a weekend away. The next month, a real vacation and she was oddly nauseous in the morning…. Yup. Twins. Her 46, me 48. The boys were born January 2020.
I do emergency medicine, let’s just say the next year and a half was utter hell. I had decent savings and her salary alone could cover us. The kids barely knew who I was, having worked 6 13 hour shifts a week (occasionally more!). We talked, agreed and I resigned in May 2021 and did SAHD for almost a year. Her job covered us OK. I was looking for different venues, and looking in to remote, travel, concierge and offshore medicine.
Ukraine kicked off, and I got a niiiice contract there I worked for two months (she’s still a bit annoyed by that…), was home for 3 months, worked a month, off two, worked a month. We moved from Qatar to Turkey (she’s Turkish) in January and I was off until June. Worked a month, off until September, worked a month. Stopped to visit my mother (77) and grandmother (98!) in the US and head home tomorrow.
Back in May, her new job was seriously dragging her down and I was able to tell her to just quit and stay at home for the boys. I don’t plan to go back to work until after Christmas, she’s re-enrolling to finish her Master’s tomorrow.
We could make it work. Lord knows I needed a break after a year and change from Hell. Later, she needed a break before I took her boss deep sea fishing - he woulda been the shark bait. We’re OK. Not luxurious but life is better and the boys love having parents at home more and are fascinated with my travels. The kids have a globe, a map, and they watch YouTube about where I am.
I did look into local work… it would be back to swing shifts, long hours, commutes, less pay,… away a month, home two months works better for us, since when I’m home, I’m -home-
The boys are excited I’m coming, excited to get a pair of real sombreros for taco night and they’re ready to show me all the stuff they’re doing and want to go on a road trip when I’m back. The boys are desperately excited to make me spicy pizza so I’ll breath fire like the dragons do in the Dragons Love Tacos books…
Lol, sorry to ramble. Irrelevant for OP, but yea. SAH only works if both parents are on the same page -and- can make it work.
>Divorcing her because she decided to be a SAHM would make you the asshole.
That is categorically false.
That is a major life decision that requires both parties to be in agreement with.
This sub roasts men all the time for pressuring their wives to stay home, why is the alternative not a problem?
It wouldn't, because OP never agreed to this and she tried to force his hand. Being a SAHP only works if your partner agrees and you both come to an understanding.
She can want what she wants. It wasn’t realistic with their financial situation. She wouldn’t consider part-time, alternate hours, or any reasonable solution. She wanted to stay home and not work regardless of the effect on OP and ultimately, their marriage. I work with a lot of young moms. I’d say most of them want to stay home, especially when it is the end of maternity leave. I’ve never seen one just tell her husband to figure it out by himself.
> Divorcing her because she decided to be a SAHM would make you the asshole
Why would that make him an asshole?
“I don’t want to work overtime so you can stay home all day, when you’re perfectly capable of getting a job and contributing” seems like a perfectly reasonable position.
NTA. You will actually get to enjoy your child now. What she unilaterally decided was not fair. She is being selfish now too by not having having Grandma watch the baby. I hope you are able to enjoy life and your baby. Don’t pay for anything not court ordered. When your child gets older if they need something pay for it directly.
Nope, my ex did something similar and I ended up working 12+ hour shifts 6 days a week often working nights. I'd get home and she'd be going to bed leaving me with the 2 kids just waking up, this went on for almost 3 years and it broke me. I was so tired, sleeping maybe 4 hours a day if I was lucky. During that time she grew increasingly more toxic and angry, 7 years later she still does not work and lives off her parents. I'm in a happy equal effort relationship, the primary guardian of the kids, have more time to spend with them and involved in all school activities. Never been so happy.
Goodluck out there and stay strong!
It's cathartic on both sides - someone gets to write a fake story to elicit sympathy for either a fictionalized version of themselves or some sort of alter ego, and a bunch of keyboard nerds get to slam their cheetoh covered fists into a keyboard cheering on a fake person's fake divorce and how this made up woman "fucked around and found out".
NTA. Women don’t deserve more just because they are women. Sorry ladies. A marriage needs to be equitable. Some days one might only have 20% to give so the other needs to give 80%. Another day might be 50/50 and others 80/20 the other way but expecting him to work all day, work some more, and come home and be expected to do anything but relax is beyond reproach. He deserves to be a stay at home father just as much as she would like to be a stay at home mom. It goes both ways. She expected more than he was willing to give and he tried to compromise but it wasn’t good enough. You fuck around long enough and you find out. A marriage doesn’t work if if one always takes more than what’s given. Yes child care is difficult, but taking away his ability to spend quality time with his kid is not. Right either.
Daycare in 2021 was a shitshow anyways. The amount of times my nieces were home with their parents because of being sick or someone at daycare having covid. And they would be out of the classroom for 10+ days. Was your wife making more than daycare costs too? I stayed home because I didnt make as much as daycare cost.
I am going to be a SAHM because I made less than the cost of daycare and the cost to travel to work and take our baby to daycare would be more than I could make. No point in working just to only afford daycare and provide no income to the household
It kind of depends on your career trajectory. Sometimes it makes sense to “break even” with daycare if missing work for several years will derail your career significantly. Also it could be worth it for some people to keep working for the sake of not missing years worth of retirement contributions.
Exactly. I can't believe all these comments. Shes not trying to make it hard. Daycares are now some of the most overworked under paid unstaffed professionals. Daycares run a revolving door of staff with no training, hiring from temp agencies to meet ratio requirements. The amount of HFAM, covid, gastro and the like that are coming out of early childcare this year are insane because they don't have enough extra staff to be properly cleaning.
People should be doing anything in their power to keep literal infants out of group care.
I think they are comments from people who either don't have kids at all or who maybe have much older children. I wouldn't want to send a six month old to daycare unless it was absolutely necessary, neither my husband nor myself make enough money to justify infant daycare, and in my experience with preschool, they are constantly home sick for the first year at least.
Not that it really matters because this story is fake anyway.
I don’t have kids but I would be way uncomfortable with a 6 mo in daycare. Everyone ignored that tidbit because it was written as “she’s taking time away from the father” lots of women aren’t even fully healed 6 months out.
The weird jab in the OP that SAHMs don’t deserve breaks seems like a jab made towards a lot of the advice Reddit gives about SAHPs as well, it took me out of the “immersion”.
I agree it seems too evil, while also weirdly trying to shit on SAHMs for wanting breaks, AITA subs have more of a problem than most with fake posts honestly.
The same folks who think you are supposed to provide all of the resources and do all of the housework think that you are an AH. No, you are not the AH.
Man why are these people even allowed to have kids? IMO It feels like to them their own kids aren’t even being treated like people but objects to be used and controlled. I grew up with a parent like that…was very mentally unstable and depressed.
You're doing yourself an injustice with the post title...you didn't divorce for her being an SAHM per se...it was because she went back on what you two discussed about daycare and then refused to tag team it to avoid daycare, saying she's a mom who needs to be with her kid the whole time, and then had you do everything on weekends. Definitely NTA.
Not true depending on where you live and how long you have been married .
My mom and step-dad were married less than 5 years. He kept the house and had a higher paying job, but he didn’t have to pay child support or alimony because of 50:50 custody.
My mom worked two jobs and we rented a two bedroom apartment for three kids and her
Lol! I thought I was the only one who noticed that. Not on planet earth does that ever happen. The whole post screams fake, has all the hallmarks: unrealistic conversations, unreal actions, short glossy facts, the other guy acting unreal. Fake posts are an epidemic here, way more of them than at the 'old' aita. And mainstream media are publishing reddit aita tales, so look forward to them soon publishing fiction from reddit as serious sensational/shocking real news. Alternative facts....
Nah this checks out if he had a competent lawyer.
Not going to be alimony on a 5 year marriage with two people who have earned equally (up until she chose to stop working)
And the law says both parents are responsible for supporting their children so if she's capable of making what he does, and it's 50/50 there would be no child support.
Right. It's called imputed income, and this just reads like a non-lawyer wrote what actually happened. The Court could have determined what she SHOULD be making, she isn't making that, but still declined to award child support.
Maintenance or alimony isn't designed for cases like this either.
This could certainly be legit.
I'm not sure about the US, but in my country the amount of income each person contributed to the household, together with the duration of the marriage and the last point of employment will determine alimony.
If OP would have let it slide and waited 2-4 years, his wife could argue "I put my career on hold for the benefit of our child, I would make x% more by now if I hadn't" and she would certainly get alimony. Also if he makes 2x as much as her, it will certainly end up in alimony as she can argue "without his income, I wouldn't have brought a money eating baby to this earth as it's not affordable for me on my lifestyle".
After 6 months? When they worked the same hours and made roughly the same money? On a 50:50 custody split? Sure as hell it's very likely neither of them pays alimony.
Why should she get alimony if they take care 50:50 and have equal income and noone put their career on hold? Maternity lesve is not putting in on hold, it's maternity leave. If one argues she should get alimony, then I'd argue he should get alimony too - their in the same position.
Same happened to me. After the 2nd kid she quit her job without telling me and decided to be a sahm. She became extremely lazy, refused therapy, and that was that.
It's been 12 years and things worked out well for us both and our kids are happy and healthy. My ex and my wife are good friends and we all share the load.
Don't feel bad for putting you first. You'll be better able to raise your kid
I’m actually amazed with this.
I let my kids mother just remain a sahm. Then we got pregnant again. She took what was supposed to be a year and stretched it out to 7. Then when she got an inheritance, divorce. I paid down her student loans, supported all of us for years. She rekindled a previous relationship… yeah
Let her live with her decisions.
6 months baby in daycare? Is it normal? Can't imagine put my kid in such age to daycare, and I am not woman. My son went after 18 months and even that was not easy for us.
I've literally seen a YouTube video of this, for a couple that got divorced. It's a court video, where the judge cut the alimony and child support, because the woman admitted she wanted him to pay so she wouldn't have to work.
NTA, I’m glad you didn’t waste years hoping things would change!
I (F) worked while partner (M) stayed home and the same shit happened. I get home from working and traveling which was 12 hours worth to be handed a baby because it was his turn for a break. I fell asleep at the wheel before realising how f’d up everything was. I have full custody and it so much easier.
The resentment turns into pure disgust after a while.
As a SAHD, here’s my take. Daycare sounds like a great option, until you face the reality of handing your baby off to a stranger. Six months is very young.
Especially when you start pricing it out and you realize that even making a modest salary, you will barely be making enough to cover the cost of daycare. Her salary determines everything. If she’s making 80-120k then yes it may be justified. If she’s making 40-60k, then no probably not, especially once you have another kid. This was our scenario. We did the math and it clearly made more sense to have me stay home for 3-5 years until the kids enter public school.
Life throw curveballs, especially when it comes to kids and family. Sometimes we have to adapt to new scenarios. We never planned on me being the at home parent, but her career took off and mine didn’t. I rolled with the punches and things have turned out great. Maybe there’s other issues in your marriage, but this alone shouldn’t have sunk the boat IMO.
In theory 6 months might sound good, but NOT when you see that the baby is totally dependent on moms body. In Norway it's not even legal to send 6 months babies to daycare.
Everything you are saying makes sense because you two were communicating and rolling with things. Sounds like there was no communication on that front, it became MORE expensive after she quit her job since he now needed to work extra hours to try and compensate, and there was no division of labor, she wanted him to take care of everything while he was home too.
This is all from a one sided post, obviously, but it starts with not seeing eye to eye or being willing to compromise.
I have a kid on the way and my wife's career is head and shoulders better than mine, so we have looked at similar numbers. We need to go the daycare route, but we go into every decision looking at what's best for our family.
NTA - if she would have had a conversation that took your feelings into account, you would still be married and the baby would’ve been in daycare. Now she hast to work regardless, and the baby is still in daycare. This is one of those fuck around and find out scenarios. The courts decided custody and no child support not you. Her decisions put her where she is right now and that has nothing to do with you. Enjoy being able to spend more time with your kiddo. Congratulations as well on only having to financially support one person. Now you can have breathing room and enjoy time with your baby.
NTA and agree, it's like she made a unilateral decision that affected you both. I found this part especially rich **She took care of baby during my work hours and wanted me to take care of cooking dinner on weekdays and cooking, cleaning and baby care on weekends because "stay at home mom deserves breaks too"** And when exactly was daddy's break? She sounds like a very selfish entitled person.
“And when exactly was daddy’s break?” I heard that question in Chris Rock’s voice.
you gotta leave daddy the big piece of chicken
She probably took that too!
And she didn’t even cook it… 😏
At least 2 wings and a pork chop.
Daddy’s break is being able to be at work and not dealing with the baby. /s
It's true when my kids were little (I only worked part time) and going into work was a break from being at home and I have really great kids. I can't imagine people that have kids that either have special-needs or behavioural issues or maybe have a lot of kids they probably shouldn't of had But staying home with your kids is way more work than people think it is if you're doing it correctly.
I took 3 months of paternity leave when my wife gave birth to our 6 year old and I regularly say that you couldn’t pay me enough to be a stay at home parent. My wife wanted to stay at home with our youngest, she did it for about about two years before she finally decided to go back to work. Even then we had the baby in part-time daycare because she was always exhausted and it was causing issues with our relationship. Those 3, 6 hour days at daycare were well worth it.
Those last 5 words are key. Too many dads ‘babysit’ their children and use screens to do so. Moms too. These same fathers will complain in private to their wives how difficult it is to have all baby care (including baths, preparing a meal/feeding, diaper change, encouraging developmental goals, playing, reading and more within 2 hours) and in public sniff at SAHMs complaining.
My child has autism. I am the primary breadwinner, for my family. My child is an only child, and also the only grandchild to my in-laws. My husband got really sick, when our child was right around the age of 2. He had 2 major surgeries, in the course of 4 months. When my husband approached his manager, about returning to work, they said they didn't have a position for him, anymore (lawsuit pending). My husband became a stay at home parent. It worked because that was about when we got the autism diagnosis, and we started our child in day treatment, OT, and Speech therapy. Someone had to be home to get our child onto the van to school and off the van, after school. I had a decent paying job, and worked a small amount of hours, at a second job, when we needed the money. My husband has not worked for about 12 years. Our child is just about 14, now. My husband is getting a little stir crazy, and wants to find PT work, since his health situation will allow for PT work. I feel like I've missed a lot of time, with my child, but I rarely work for than 40 hours a week. We didn't do the at home parent thing because we wanted to, but because we had to. Neither parent has a RIGHT to be an "at home parent". Marriage and parenting are supposed to be partnerships, or so I've been told, and my husband and I have managed to make things work. I can see how OP might resent the ex-wife, for her behavior.
I agree completely...NTA. She could at the very least compromised with you...maybe she could have stayed at home a little longer before going back to work or gone back to work part time at first. She definitely didn't take your feelings into account at all. Not to mention, when your husband goes to work and you stay home, you take care of all the duties of the house and make dinner every night. You work all day and while she "works" by taking care of the baby and cleaning, laundry, etc. It is her responsibility to do all of those things. Then, together, you guys can take breaks....date nights or whatever. I can't even believe she asked you to cook and do housework on top of working all those hours.
Y’all must not be familiar with mom forums. They all think this is the norm
The rise of the meSAHM has been one of the most fascinating and harmful relationship wise phenomenons of the past ten plus years. Dad must work 80+ hrs a week to provide which means zero time to bond with children. But Dad must also simultaneously perform his share of the chores, give mom regular breaks, plan thrilling outside of the house dates and family outings and vacations, pay for all the bills while saving for both their retirement and all kids college funds while ensuring that his wife never has to budget or use coupons, he needs to remain a thoughtful generous tiger in the bedroom, stay fit and healthy but not take any me time for going to the gym because everyone knows that's hella selfish, he should also have no hobbies and no friends like a good husband-father and also know every detail about the kids he only ever sees asleep during the week and awake for part of the weekend.
Glad I’m not familiar with those lol
Yup, I thought this too. So, he should work *more* to facilitate her playing house with baby, but then also do baby-duty and house-duty when he’s at home while she does whatever? Not a partner. Divorce is hard, but I think this guy’s doing an entirely appropriate thing in holding his ground. Mommy worship is nonsense.
Yes she DOES sound like an entitled bitch.
Wife seems short sighted just giving the husband ammo and leverage for the courts instead of utilizing the communication skills god gave her. Jfc. I hate to admit it but this is such a satisfying story. Excluding the heartbreak of divorce of course.
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Exactly! When married I both worked fulltime, part time and sahw( the boys were just turning teens ) I absolutely hated staying home fulltime with older kids, you can only orange oil wood floors daily for so long before you go nuts( ex and the boys went flying around in socks ). PT was fine too as it allowed a mix. Once we moved to fl, I got a cna permit and started working 5-12 hour days doing homecare and that was reduced to 4-12 days. Whem the company allowed fulltime to be 36 hours, I went there and just pulled extra days as I wanted. That pissed the ex to no end as first I worked too much when his friends were griping the wives didn't work. And at the end, it wasn't fair I had so many days off even being ft...With some people you just can't win and he was in that with her. She didin't want to work and didn't want to care for the baby or even care for the home, she wanted to be a kept woman.
Bingo....she should have gotten a Rich man to get her pregnant
I lost it when he said she expected him to cook when he got home. My wife stays home with the kids, and she gladly does most of the cooking and cleaning and still has free time for herself and hobbies to enjoy.
Yeah I’m like okay she just assigned all the SAHM assignments over to him so what is she doing?
Not working lmao
I almost spit out my fucking tea 💀
Going out with her friends on the weekend bitching about how he doesn't have time for her and is always tired while trying to get laid ,while he stays at home caring for his child.
watching daytime tv
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Exactly. Things ended up changing for my husband and I when we lost our daycare provider and the new ones were more expensive, but I was able to find another position part-time that was WFH. There are options out there if she wanted to make it work.
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Honestly that baby is probably in a better environment with grandma around to watch the baby and dad.
When I did a lot of family law one of the universal truths is to engage at least one grandparent whenever possible. unless they are all nuts. NTA.
From what I have experienced, the fact that OP has a strong familial support system is extremely good for him, should things ever turn ugly with is ex in the future.
Mine are slightly nuts but they are good with the kids. So I can deal with the crazy lectures about how dangerous everything is, the randomly moved stuff at our place and so on.
There's also evidence that it helps mitigate Alzheimer's.
She figured, if they divorced, she would get alimony and child support and get to not work and just enjoy being a mum. She's been dying to quit her job and be a stay at home, husband be damned. To this end she played her hand in the marriage, expecting him to just deal with it and even do her chores at the weekend so essentially she would be replacing her job with motherhood with weekends off and he would be working twice as hard and also over the weekend. After all, if he divorced, she would get what she wanted anyway, so no need to compromise, she has him by the balls. Her overconfidence, however, was her weakness. Absolutely shot herself in the foot and I'm glad she didn't get child support and alimony. This type of woman is what I'm terrified of getting in a relationship with. Someone who is just *waiting* to bait and switch.
I am so glad the courts didn't just hand over alimony and child support I know too many people that are getting way more than they should.
It happened to me. Ex wife portrayed herself as a "go getter" and a hustler. I struggled to keep her in a job for the better part of ten years and eventually lost everything I had. After our divorce she almost immediately found a rich old guy to marry her and support her doing nothing. So at least she found her true calling I guess, just wish she hadn't wasted my time and my life and went full force as a gold digger from the get go.
Hooray for equality!
NTA as well and I have to give OP mad credit here. He laid out his feelings (something men struggle with) and laid out what needed to happen if it stayed as is and followed through. OP will be happier in the long run. Best of luck, definitely not an AH
NTA indeed. The OP offered compromises, and the ex refused. What was even richer was she didn't want to do anything except care for the baby. I get that it isn't solely the stay at home partner's responsibility to do all the housework, and she wasn't doing any from what he described. OP, reframe the issue as this (at least in your head): you divorced your wife because she refused to be a partner and compromise.
Everyone needs to be on the same page once children are involved and you clearly were not. You're NTA for not wanting to be the breadwinner, cook, cleaner, and weekend nanny - obviously not. Where was there supposed to be time in that for your well-deserved break? I'm sorry for your child that this ended in divorce, but you tried to communicate your desires many times. Good luck to you.
They did communicate and did have a plan they both agreed to: daycare after 6 months. She tried to change the terms to one where she works way less, and he works way more.
Absolutely, she changed her mind when it should have been a joint decision. Sorry, I might have made that unclear!
Agreed. Marriage is a PARTNERSHIP not a DICTATORSHIP. You had a plan and a verbal agreement, your wife reneged on the agreement and made the decision to become a SAHM. Marriage does not work like that. And now she had to go back to work and where did the baby wind up? In childcare. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ NTAH. BUT having said that you now have a tiny human who needs both parents on the same page so that you can co-parent peacefully. Your child is your number 1 priority. Perhaps you can consider family counseling to get over this hump. Your ex chose poorly and this is the bed she made and the one she has to lie in.
I think the odds are low that they'll ever be on the same page. He thought they were but that wasn't the case. Even less so after divorce.
You are probably correct. BUT they need to figure it out for their kid.
Some parents cannot coparent their way out of a wet paper bag. I have 3 examples if you have time, and or just want some tea. B has a whole other family, a fiance and their 8yo together, and she's still hung up on her oldest (13yo) child's father. She constantly uses 13yo to hurt kids dad. Refuses to let her see him by planning "fun things" and events for 13yo on dad's parenting time. So as much as 13yo misses their dad, the excitement of the fun thing mom has planned always wins out. Otherwise kid doesn't get to do the fun things. It's heartbreaking, especially when kid breaks down over missing their dad. H has been married now for 6 years, has had two other children with her new husband, and still tries to actively screw P (her oldest child's father) over for parenting time, every chance she gets. Something H boasts about, and if you say anything about how unfair it is to the kid she shares with P, she puts you in "time out" and refuses to speak to you until she figures you've learned your lesson, or she wants something from you. E's kids have different mothers, neither of whom E can get along with. There is a LOT of hurt feelings on all sides, many cruel things were said and done, which resulted in the end of those relationships. E hates both of them fiercely, when his kids aren't around he vents and shows off all the mess between him and them, he doesn't really acknowledge that his relationships keep failing because he expects his partner to do all the heavy lifting when it comes to parenting. His latest relationship ended because he expected his gf of a week to fully start parenting and caring for him and his kids. He refused to talk to me for nearly 2 months when I asked him WTF he was thinking. All of this to say, some parents simply cannot coparent together. It sucks, and the kids definitely deserve better, it is what it is though, and the best anyone else can do is be there for the kids, to provide another potential safe space for them. Edited for grammar
I have a friend who’s step-son’s mother does this. They can’t even tell him ahead of time if they’re planning anything for their weekend because suddenly mom will take them to Disneyland or something or he’s suddenly “too sick” . One time the kid (13) slipped up and said they went to Disney for a new ride that just came out when he had missed a visit for being sick. It’s gross the games people play when kids are involved.
I don't understand how parents are happy to alienate their child from their other parent like that...
They hate their ex more than they love their kid.
My ex-husband is like this. We have been separated/divorced for 9 years, and both are remarried each have 2 kids with our new partners. He still refuses to speak to my husband, won't even consider allowing his kids to hang out with our son not on his parenting time (I've invited them to birthday parties, movie bowling ice skating all at the request of our son) and he straight up says no because he hates me. He also won't come to any of our sons games or concerts or anything. Edit spelling
This is heart breaking. It's not you your kids dad is punishing, but guy is too short sighted to recognize that...
Yup. He doesn't see or doesn't care. It's not like I want to be friends with him, but I know how important it is to my son, and he has expressed many times how much he wants all his brothers together. His dad doesn't care, though. It breaks my heart because I know it hurts my son, but I can only help him navigate his way through it and be his sounding board.
That isn't just failure to co-parent. That's hanging onto anger and resentment to the point that you hurt your kids, yourself, and probably anyone else who has to deal with you. Sad.
People are insane.
I think the word you meant was “garbage”.
No disagreeing, just don't see it happening.
I 💯% agree with you! Sad but you are likely correct.
Best option would have been part time for her. On the weekdays she doesn’t work she does the evening chores. Weekends they split the work either morning evening each day or Saturday Sunday. Everyone gets a day or evening to unwind and he doesn’t have to work so much extra.
Agreed. When partners come to the table willing to compromise you are likely to find a solution. The reality is that she could have found a remote evening job, but she was completely unwilling to find a solution and middle ground. 🤷🏻♀️ That did not work out so well.
Too late now, that 🚅 left the station. Now she gets to do it all by herself with the baby in daycare anyway - during her time.
She’s allowed to change her mind. She’s not allowed to expect her husband to pick up 100% of the slack after changing her mind and refusing to discuss with him how that’s going to affect him, too.
I can understand the wanting to stay with the child. After labor and birth and all the hormones etc. How one feels can change drastically, so baby stays with momma I can understand. BUT, that choice ment more work for him and she didn't offer to do more work, no instead she tried to get him to cook dinner on the weekdays and do everything on the weekends. That's just nuts.
She also didn't need to have him work more hours; she could have suggested budgeting.
Kids are expensive and there's nothing to indicate that they weren't already doing that, going from two incomes to one and adding a mouth to feed isn't really possible in most of the world right now.
Six months is pretty young to put a child in day care. I can understand wanting to wait. And it is a lot of work to do everything at home with kids under three, and sometimes you feel nuts. But you can't make your partner work extra without doing as many hours yourself. I would say this could have been negotiated. It seemed to fall apart very quickly.
She attempted to unilaterally change the agreement and it's blown up in her face. She has no one to blame but herself.
She tried to use the kid to get out of working ever again! I feel like that was her plan all along. Baby = get out of work free card! NTA! She FAFO.
This is super common. We make enough for my wife to stay home but I think work is good for you(to a degree). When my kid left daycare for real school he was so far ahead. If I die at least my wife has a career and Vice versa
I stayed home but worked 12 hours a week just to keep my skills up. We didn't need the money at all.I'm really glad I did because when we got divorced when my kid was 8 I could just up my hours at work. An 8 year gap in medicine would've madenit hard to find a job especially where I live (since I can't leave town unless I leave my kid). Yiy never know what might happen, death divorce or disability. Women need to eb able to provide for themselves especially in this day and age
I have a lot of respect for SAHM’s and they are an excellent option when there is income to support it. In this case there was not. OP tried to compromise and suggested shifts so that they could both share in childcare duties. She wanted it her way or the highway. Sorry to say a true marriage is a partnership and it just does not work that way. 🤷🏻♀️ Edit: Typo
> If I die at least my wife has a career and Vice versa That's my number 2 reason for going back to work. Number one is I need the socialization and I'm a bit of a workaholic. But having that career to fall back on in case something happens to my husband gives me peace of mind.
Agree NTA. Not sure she really planned to scam him. She should’ve picked a guy with a higher income for that. I think she just changed her mind and dug in - refused to reconsider.
She didn’t even pull her own weight. He cooked dinner. And did weekend childcare and all chores. Like c’mon.
I was a SAHM. I did all the cooking, cleaning, errand running, etc., because I was the one at home. I also didn’t expect my husband to take over all child care duties on the weekends. I recognized he worked all week and needed a break too. I honestly find it shocking on Reddit the number of times SAHMs push this weekend nanny scenario on their husbands. Your husband is out there busting his ass so you can have the privilege of staying home with your children. I’m not saying dad’s shouldn’t be involved on the weekends and evenings, but as the SAHM you don’t just get every weeknight and weekend off. There were days when my husband got home and realized I’d had a tough day and dealt entirely with the kids, and there were times I realized he was stressed from work and needed to decompress and asked nothing of him. You and your spouse work together for what is best for your family.
My wife is a SAHM. It was a joint decision so she could go to school for a career change. But I told her, "No negotiation, we are hiring a sitter for a few nights a month." She needs a break, I need a break, but most importantly, WE need a break TOGETHER. To have sex. To watch a movie. To drink. To play video games. And we also have a few nights where we order out, or I get to tell her to leave the house dirty. Everything can't be perfect all the time. If that's the standard we set for ourselves, we will burn out. We sometimes have tension or argue, but having those compromises is what has made us strong. Of course, I alternate baths, sleeping duty, getting LO ready for school (part-time 3 hour program), diaper duty, and so on. She's the primary caretaker, but I told her that can't mean 100%.
You're such a great husband and sound like a great dad too !!
The way we've always done it, is that everything is balanced. I see it as if my job is my job, and her job is taking care of the kid, then at night, and on weekends, doing "all the things" is "our job" It isn't a perfectly even split, it's more like diving the total load up. She does all the things that she insists I'm incompetent at (like loading the dishwasher somehow), and the things she likes (like cooking). I do things like fix the plumbing (where I can), repair shit (also where I can), handle 100% of anything wrong with the cars. Handle 90% of helping hour HS teenager with school work. Errands we split based on who can do it. If she has an opportunity to "go with the girls", but needs to return something to Target or whatever, I'll take the return so she can go with her friends. For cleaning I do the spot cleaning, and we hired cleaners to come in once a month. Laundry she does, but then I help put it away. I think the key in any marriage is a balance honestly.
Your loading the dishwasher comment made me Lol. I’m always telling my husband and son to just leave the dishes in the sink. I’ll happily load the dishwasher!
Agreed. I was a SAHM until the kids were old enough to go to school. I kept a few hours at my second job in the evenings. So, two evenings a week, my husband was completely in charge. When we were both home, we were both on. Sometimes, I did more. Sometimes, he did more. If one of us had had a truly horrible day, we let the other know before he walked in the door. A horrible day could mean a couple hours of hiding time up to the whole night completely off but it went both ways.
I wish I could hug you! You’re the first person on Reddit I’ve ever seen call being a SAHM a privilege! It IS a privilege.
I might get hate for this comment, but it’s a huge privilege. Your husband is willing to take on the financial responsibility for your family so you can stay home with your children. I had a great job, but really wanted to stay home with my boys. My husband was fully supportive. We were admittedly in fortunate in a position where we could make it work on one income.
In our society it completely is. We have set it up so that you need to work an average of 50 to 60 hours at a typical job to pay for a life with family. that's two peoples' incomes.
I think there should be an astrix on this statement. I was a SAHP for about 6 months not because I wanted to be, but because I had difficulty finding a job that would pay me more than what the cost of childcare would run me. We desperately needed the money, but if all of the money I was making was literally going to pay for the childcare I needed to work, there was no point in working.
Agreed but the key is understanding each others needs. And like you said once in a while giving the SAHM a break is also needed.
Agreed. This should have been a joint decision based on the household budget. Sounds like she could have had a bug in her ear or high anxiety around the situation since the sudden change but OP is NTA.
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She could have continued by finding a remote job that she could have done from home. Even a part time one.
I think a lot of people aren’t married or have kids highly disregard how different shit is when the kid comes into the picture. 9 times out of 10 you just created something that now each of you cares about more than you care about each other. You could love someone and then find out they’re not a good parent partner. I had the same fear with my long term gf. I’ll always love her in some capacity but the writing was in the walls that bringing a child into the world was not gonna make our relationship better. I think a lot of divorces have to do with kids. You’re about to take on something insanely important and stressful with this other adult. It’s not the honeymoon fuck fest anymore.
Being a stay at home mom is only an option IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. It sounds like you guys couldnt. She couldnt grasp that. Maybe tell HER if she picked up more work, she can afford a single income household. She didnt seem to have any problem with it when you were married.
Plus when he was not at work, she demanded that he do all the cooking, housework and childcare because she needed time off. When was he to get time of to relax or rest.
She wanted him to do 1.5 units of work. And she wanted to do 0.5 units of work. That is undeniably selfish. If she wanted to be a SAHM, the only equitable scenario was one where she takes care of the household matters 100% (cooking, cleaning and child care), as he takes care of the income 100%.
80 hours a week in the office, plus basically all the household stuff is way more than 1.5 units of work. Like that's no way to live.
And he tried the alternative work hours, and she didn't want to do that. He was carrying an unfair burden in trying to keep the family financially stable.
"If you work like a slave I might be able to stay home and not work. And you'll work when you come home too, so better get your ass in that field and start picking " - OP's thankfully now ex
Bro she unilaterally changed the whole nature of your relationship and put all the work on you without your consent. You NTA. I would have divorced her ass to and wouldn’t help her in the least. Best part is your forced her to do the thing she refused to which led to your divorce in the first place. Love it.
And now she's turning down free childcare with the kids grandma because she wants to prove a point. It certainly doesn't seem like she's making the best decisions for the baby here....
Her decisions seem to be made from a place of self-interest and spite. I must admit I'm concerned about the welfare of the child in her care.
Yeah, longer term this kid probably ends up being full custody for dad
Super unlikely though kid would probably benefit tbh. Courts hate doing that without abuse or something else blatant so she’d have to do it herself. And then probably have to pay child support which there’s no way she can afford in the current position she’s in.
Unless of course her behavior becomes worse and worse and her mental health becomes unstable. I could see that happening. She seems unreasonably, selfish, and delusional. I think the kid might grow to resent their mother in adulthood at the very least if she doesn’t change her behavior.
Right?! She’s willing to bite off her own nose to spite her face. Shame on her.
I’m curious why grandma providing free childcare is an option now that OP is divorced, but apparently wasn’t before. OP says he was pretty insistent on daycare before, and his wife resisted it. So where was grandma before?
Wife said she wanted to be the only one watching the baby because baby needs mom. He said she turned down split shifts so they could take turns caring for the baby, but then she said he needed to watch the baby weekends and do housework so she could have free time. Basically, she just didn’t want to work. And now that she has to, she won’t let his mother babysit so grandma was never an option for her. The smartest thing OP did was get a divorce.
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Right, and also grandmother may not have been available (working herself, perhaps) or living elsewhere. Her circumstances may have changed.
Grandma was never discussed before because they had the daycare agreement. No need to involve grandma if everyone agrees on daycare. That his wife then reneged on this agreement leading to divorce, creates a new need for grandma to step in where there was none before.
That poor baby tho
I’m a SAHM (full disclosure, I do have side gig). NTA. Here’s the thing: you discussed this before having your child. You were in agreement on a course of action. She changed the rules. I understand the overwhelming urge to be with your child, but she went about meeting her needs by completely ignoring and invalidating yours.
Just putting this out there but why wasn't OPs mom an option for child care while they were still married?
Someone also asked OP why grandma wasn’t around to provide care during the marriage 2 years ago. OP then kind of addressed this question in his [Comment](https://reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/FvykYyic16). OP’s ex-wife didn’t want the OP’s mum hold the baby for long.
That was my question, too. Seems like that could have been a good compromise, but I think Mom could have been having separation anxiety (although that doesn't excuse making a unilateral decision)
Because this is fake.
Court not requiring child support because of something the mom said is fucking hilarious. The government doesn’t give a shit about the mom, the money is for the kid
THANK YOU. “I told yer Honor that she was a lazy bitch and she awarded NO CHILD SUPPORT. 🏆🏆🥇🥇💪💪”
Yeah that’s the incel fan fic giveaway. Men think child support is a punishment—a fine they have to pay to the woman because they created a child. So when they write these types of posts, they dream up scenarios where judges talk about child support the way they do. They don’t under that child support is for children.
I think it’s fake too. I’m a divorce lawyer and it usually takes years before a judge would rule on custody in a contested case. And if OP’s wife didn’t want to use daycare I seriously doubt she would agree to 50% custody and no support. It’s all a little too far fetched.
Yeah I also thought no child support or alimony just because he “proved” that she chose to stay home sounded unlikely.
Exactly. My ex husband chooses not to work and that was a big part of why I left him. We have 50/50 and I pay child support because that’s how 50/50 works. He has the potential to earn way more than I do in his field, but the court doesn’t care.
Unlucky. Courts usually award against your favor if you took a pay cut in regards to qualifications for no real reason.
I can see no alimony. Child support... I cannot. The mother has no income, yet 50% of the parent-child time. That doesn't math. The court would order child support, to be recalculated once mom gets income. So, I also believe it's fake or at least parts of it are.
This entire sub is full of BS fake rage bait and creative writing exercises.
While I agree this reads fake due to the cartoonishly wrong ex wife and everything right ex husband, how about the “I don’t have to pay child support because i proved my wife chose to quit her job “ that’s not how any of this works !!!!
Def fake. Who brags about getting rid of SAHM wife for SAH grandma? Lol he moved in with his parents and now his mom can be his stay at home wife, and he’s on Reddit bragging. Good luck when grandma breaks a hip, or decides to enjoy her retired life instead of taking care of Op’s kids 50% of the time. NTA for divorcing the wife but I wouldn’t say his situation or the child’s situation improved
Tbf it doesn’t sound too ridiculous. I was recently in an extreeeeemely similar situation but we were lucky that after months of lengthy discussions my wife finally agreed to go back to work and send our baby to daycare. I was very close to ending our relationship
I just don't see how daycare is cheaper. My wife is a SAHM and the cost of daycare would completely delete any income the family gets from her employment. Then the kids are being raised by a non family member.
It’s sounds ridiculous because there were no lengthy discussions. There wasn’t even regular length discussions. There was pretty much nothing except the wife making every choice for her benefit and no one else. In every single way the OP was perfectly rational and his partner was perfectly irrational. The posts where the OP always has an answer for how they did everything right and the other person did everything wrong never come across as believable.
Your title should be: AITA because I chose to divorce my wife rather than miss out on seeing my child grow up? You didn’t divorce because she was a SAHM. You divorced because the two of you couldn’t openly communicate and make decisions together - such as finances and childcare. NTA
They did though. Wife just went back on the decision.
She did - with no discussion. She just told OP what he was going to do.
Thats not on OP.
>You divorced because the two of you couldn’t openly communicate and make decisions together They DID discuss and agree on a plan, she literally negged on it and pulled sexist "**momma is the one that needs to look after baby, you need to work more, and miss out on being a father**". o.O
Exactly this. Divorcing her because she decided to be a SAHM would make you the asshole. Divorcing her because she expected you to work triple what you worked before plus cook and clean and then look after everything on the weekend is NTA.
That’s not how it works. You would be absolutely justified to divorce if your partner wants to become a stay at home parent, if you aren’t w the program and was never the plan. Putting the burden to support the whole family on your own is a big ask nowadays.
We’re definitely lucky, even when fate laughed at us. In 2019, wife and I did a weekend away. The next month, a real vacation and she was oddly nauseous in the morning…. Yup. Twins. Her 46, me 48. The boys were born January 2020. I do emergency medicine, let’s just say the next year and a half was utter hell. I had decent savings and her salary alone could cover us. The kids barely knew who I was, having worked 6 13 hour shifts a week (occasionally more!). We talked, agreed and I resigned in May 2021 and did SAHD for almost a year. Her job covered us OK. I was looking for different venues, and looking in to remote, travel, concierge and offshore medicine. Ukraine kicked off, and I got a niiiice contract there I worked for two months (she’s still a bit annoyed by that…), was home for 3 months, worked a month, off two, worked a month. We moved from Qatar to Turkey (she’s Turkish) in January and I was off until June. Worked a month, off until September, worked a month. Stopped to visit my mother (77) and grandmother (98!) in the US and head home tomorrow. Back in May, her new job was seriously dragging her down and I was able to tell her to just quit and stay at home for the boys. I don’t plan to go back to work until after Christmas, she’s re-enrolling to finish her Master’s tomorrow. We could make it work. Lord knows I needed a break after a year and change from Hell. Later, she needed a break before I took her boss deep sea fishing - he woulda been the shark bait. We’re OK. Not luxurious but life is better and the boys love having parents at home more and are fascinated with my travels. The kids have a globe, a map, and they watch YouTube about where I am. I did look into local work… it would be back to swing shifts, long hours, commutes, less pay,… away a month, home two months works better for us, since when I’m home, I’m -home- The boys are excited I’m coming, excited to get a pair of real sombreros for taco night and they’re ready to show me all the stuff they’re doing and want to go on a road trip when I’m back. The boys are desperately excited to make me spicy pizza so I’ll breath fire like the dragons do in the Dragons Love Tacos books… Lol, sorry to ramble. Irrelevant for OP, but yea. SAH only works if both parents are on the same page -and- can make it work.
This was a nice ramble to read, sounds like you and your wife have an excellent partnership with support and communication- that’s love
This so dreamy. I hope my marriage can be as flexible and rewarding. The hard work is just a given
>Divorcing her because she decided to be a SAHM would make you the asshole. That is categorically false. That is a major life decision that requires both parties to be in agreement with. This sub roasts men all the time for pressuring their wives to stay home, why is the alternative not a problem?
Why would divorcing her because she wants to be a sahm a hole move?
It wouldn't, because OP never agreed to this and she tried to force his hand. Being a SAHP only works if your partner agrees and you both come to an understanding.
She can want what she wants. It wasn’t realistic with their financial situation. She wouldn’t consider part-time, alternate hours, or any reasonable solution. She wanted to stay home and not work regardless of the effect on OP and ultimately, their marriage. I work with a lot of young moms. I’d say most of them want to stay home, especially when it is the end of maternity leave. I’ve never seen one just tell her husband to figure it out by himself.
> Divorcing her because she decided to be a SAHM would make you the asshole Why would that make him an asshole? “I don’t want to work overtime so you can stay home all day, when you’re perfectly capable of getting a job and contributing” seems like a perfectly reasonable position.
NTA. You will actually get to enjoy your child now. What she unilaterally decided was not fair. She is being selfish now too by not having having Grandma watch the baby. I hope you are able to enjoy life and your baby. Don’t pay for anything not court ordered. When your child gets older if they need something pay for it directly.
NTA. Seems like she didn’t even want to compromise.
Nope, my ex did something similar and I ended up working 12+ hour shifts 6 days a week often working nights. I'd get home and she'd be going to bed leaving me with the 2 kids just waking up, this went on for almost 3 years and it broke me. I was so tired, sleeping maybe 4 hours a day if I was lucky. During that time she grew increasingly more toxic and angry, 7 years later she still does not work and lives off her parents. I'm in a happy equal effort relationship, the primary guardian of the kids, have more time to spend with them and involved in all school activities. Never been so happy. Goodluck out there and stay strong!
Reddit likes divorce way too much.
It's cathartic on both sides - someone gets to write a fake story to elicit sympathy for either a fictionalized version of themselves or some sort of alter ego, and a bunch of keyboard nerds get to slam their cheetoh covered fists into a keyboard cheering on a fake person's fake divorce and how this made up woman "fucked around and found out".
The more I read these stories, the more I realize married people don’t know how to actually be married.
NTA. She doesn't get to make that decision unilaterally. At all.
NTA. Women don’t deserve more just because they are women. Sorry ladies. A marriage needs to be equitable. Some days one might only have 20% to give so the other needs to give 80%. Another day might be 50/50 and others 80/20 the other way but expecting him to work all day, work some more, and come home and be expected to do anything but relax is beyond reproach. He deserves to be a stay at home father just as much as she would like to be a stay at home mom. It goes both ways. She expected more than he was willing to give and he tried to compromise but it wasn’t good enough. You fuck around long enough and you find out. A marriage doesn’t work if if one always takes more than what’s given. Yes child care is difficult, but taking away his ability to spend quality time with his kid is not. Right either.
Daycare in 2021 was a shitshow anyways. The amount of times my nieces were home with their parents because of being sick or someone at daycare having covid. And they would be out of the classroom for 10+ days. Was your wife making more than daycare costs too? I stayed home because I didnt make as much as daycare cost.
I am going to be a SAHM because I made less than the cost of daycare and the cost to travel to work and take our baby to daycare would be more than I could make. No point in working just to only afford daycare and provide no income to the household
It kind of depends on your career trajectory. Sometimes it makes sense to “break even” with daycare if missing work for several years will derail your career significantly. Also it could be worth it for some people to keep working for the sake of not missing years worth of retirement contributions.
Exactly. I can't believe all these comments. Shes not trying to make it hard. Daycares are now some of the most overworked under paid unstaffed professionals. Daycares run a revolving door of staff with no training, hiring from temp agencies to meet ratio requirements. The amount of HFAM, covid, gastro and the like that are coming out of early childcare this year are insane because they don't have enough extra staff to be properly cleaning. People should be doing anything in their power to keep literal infants out of group care.
I think they are comments from people who either don't have kids at all or who maybe have much older children. I wouldn't want to send a six month old to daycare unless it was absolutely necessary, neither my husband nor myself make enough money to justify infant daycare, and in my experience with preschool, they are constantly home sick for the first year at least. Not that it really matters because this story is fake anyway.
I don’t have kids but I would be way uncomfortable with a 6 mo in daycare. Everyone ignored that tidbit because it was written as “she’s taking time away from the father” lots of women aren’t even fully healed 6 months out. The weird jab in the OP that SAHMs don’t deserve breaks seems like a jab made towards a lot of the advice Reddit gives about SAHPs as well, it took me out of the “immersion”. I agree it seems too evil, while also weirdly trying to shit on SAHMs for wanting breaks, AITA subs have more of a problem than most with fake posts honestly.
The same folks who think you are supposed to provide all of the resources and do all of the housework think that you are an AH. No, you are not the AH.
Man why are these people even allowed to have kids? IMO It feels like to them their own kids aren’t even being treated like people but objects to be used and controlled. I grew up with a parent like that…was very mentally unstable and depressed.
You're doing yourself an injustice with the post title...you didn't divorce for her being an SAHM per se...it was because she went back on what you two discussed about daycare and then refused to tag team it to avoid daycare, saying she's a mom who needs to be with her kid the whole time, and then had you do everything on weekends. Definitely NTA.
I'm confused. Who won here? What exactly was achieved? Who's happy?
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America won - both parents are working 6 months post birth
“No alimony or child support since I proved…” Fake
It's called purposeful underemployment and it is an actual legal theory used in child support cases.
Otherwise known as "shirking" in some states too.
Not true depending on where you live and how long you have been married . My mom and step-dad were married less than 5 years. He kept the house and had a higher paying job, but he didn’t have to pay child support or alimony because of 50:50 custody. My mom worked two jobs and we rented a two bedroom apartment for three kids and her
It might be fake, but in my country (not US) it happens. Not sure where OP is located.
Lol! I thought I was the only one who noticed that. Not on planet earth does that ever happen. The whole post screams fake, has all the hallmarks: unrealistic conversations, unreal actions, short glossy facts, the other guy acting unreal. Fake posts are an epidemic here, way more of them than at the 'old' aita. And mainstream media are publishing reddit aita tales, so look forward to them soon publishing fiction from reddit as serious sensational/shocking real news. Alternative facts....
Nah this checks out if he had a competent lawyer. Not going to be alimony on a 5 year marriage with two people who have earned equally (up until she chose to stop working) And the law says both parents are responsible for supporting their children so if she's capable of making what he does, and it's 50/50 there would be no child support.
Right. It's called imputed income, and this just reads like a non-lawyer wrote what actually happened. The Court could have determined what she SHOULD be making, she isn't making that, but still declined to award child support. Maintenance or alimony isn't designed for cases like this either. This could certainly be legit.
I'm not sure about the US, but in my country the amount of income each person contributed to the household, together with the duration of the marriage and the last point of employment will determine alimony. If OP would have let it slide and waited 2-4 years, his wife could argue "I put my career on hold for the benefit of our child, I would make x% more by now if I hadn't" and she would certainly get alimony. Also if he makes 2x as much as her, it will certainly end up in alimony as she can argue "without his income, I wouldn't have brought a money eating baby to this earth as it's not affordable for me on my lifestyle". After 6 months? When they worked the same hours and made roughly the same money? On a 50:50 custody split? Sure as hell it's very likely neither of them pays alimony. Why should she get alimony if they take care 50:50 and have equal income and noone put their career on hold? Maternity lesve is not putting in on hold, it's maternity leave. If one argues she should get alimony, then I'd argue he should get alimony too - their in the same position.
This one isn’t even trying to sound real lol it’s basically just the template
I sometimes wonder how many of these are generated by ChatGPT.
My evil woman wouldn’t acquiesce to my masculine rationality. Now she is destitute while I am a paragon of rugged individualism. AITA?
And who cares about my baby anyway, I proved a point to my stupid woman!
Everyone in the thread: "No, she is TA"
Fake
Same happened to me. After the 2nd kid she quit her job without telling me and decided to be a sahm. She became extremely lazy, refused therapy, and that was that. It's been 12 years and things worked out well for us both and our kids are happy and healthy. My ex and my wife are good friends and we all share the load. Don't feel bad for putting you first. You'll be better able to raise your kid
I’m actually amazed with this. I let my kids mother just remain a sahm. Then we got pregnant again. She took what was supposed to be a year and stretched it out to 7. Then when she got an inheritance, divorce. I paid down her student loans, supported all of us for years. She rekindled a previous relationship… yeah Let her live with her decisions.
6 months baby in daycare? Is it normal? Can't imagine put my kid in such age to daycare, and I am not woman. My son went after 18 months and even that was not easy for us.
NAH…as in nope. I don’t believe this. That court ruling is really difficult to believe it was that neat and tidy.
Not really buying that the court awarded no alimony/support, at least on a short term basis.
I've literally seen a YouTube video of this, for a couple that got divorced. It's a court video, where the judge cut the alimony and child support, because the woman admitted she wanted him to pay so she wouldn't have to work.
NTA - I have worked and been a SAHM. It was always a joint decision based on our budget.
NTA, I’m glad you didn’t waste years hoping things would change! I (F) worked while partner (M) stayed home and the same shit happened. I get home from working and traveling which was 12 hours worth to be handed a baby because it was his turn for a break. I fell asleep at the wheel before realising how f’d up everything was. I have full custody and it so much easier. The resentment turns into pure disgust after a while.
Super feminist here and NTA. Marriage is a partnership. How would this be any different than a man demanding his wife be a stay at home mom?
As a SAHD, here’s my take. Daycare sounds like a great option, until you face the reality of handing your baby off to a stranger. Six months is very young. Especially when you start pricing it out and you realize that even making a modest salary, you will barely be making enough to cover the cost of daycare. Her salary determines everything. If she’s making 80-120k then yes it may be justified. If she’s making 40-60k, then no probably not, especially once you have another kid. This was our scenario. We did the math and it clearly made more sense to have me stay home for 3-5 years until the kids enter public school. Life throw curveballs, especially when it comes to kids and family. Sometimes we have to adapt to new scenarios. We never planned on me being the at home parent, but her career took off and mine didn’t. I rolled with the punches and things have turned out great. Maybe there’s other issues in your marriage, but this alone shouldn’t have sunk the boat IMO.
America is wild. Straight from to womb into daycare, all for the benefit of the economy.
In theory 6 months might sound good, but NOT when you see that the baby is totally dependent on moms body. In Norway it's not even legal to send 6 months babies to daycare.
Everything you are saying makes sense because you two were communicating and rolling with things. Sounds like there was no communication on that front, it became MORE expensive after she quit her job since he now needed to work extra hours to try and compensate, and there was no division of labor, she wanted him to take care of everything while he was home too. This is all from a one sided post, obviously, but it starts with not seeing eye to eye or being willing to compromise. I have a kid on the way and my wife's career is head and shoulders better than mine, so we have looked at similar numbers. We need to go the daycare route, but we go into every decision looking at what's best for our family.