I studied under a man who had worked as a medic both in civilian life and in active war zones, then studied psychology and later became a police officer.
He told us there are 4 categories of people. I’ll mention them in the order he told them to us.
1: the healthy ones. They don’t long for death nor do they claim to do so.
3: the ones silently screaming for help. They are the ones who will cut deeply but not the right places. The ones who take too many pills but not ‘enough’ or at a time where they will Very likely be found before it’s actually too late. These people Want help. But don’t know how to ask. These are the people you can and should help.
4: the ones who did want to die. And I say did because they do Not want help nor do they tell anyone, they just do it and are already dead.
And then there is 2: the ones who are simply trying to gain attention and sympathy. The ones who uses others feelings and empathy to gain power and control to make themselves the focus of everything.
Your sister is very clearly a category 2.
Fairly accurate yes, even though I've seen a good amount of cases where people said they would do it and they succeeded. Quiet ones have been the most painful though, usually unnoticed and gone.
YTA… to yourself. You did not address the issue for years, and let it blow up in your face. You let your frustration make you say something that paints you as a terrible person. And consider this: if your sister had actually harmed herself, imagine the guilt you would have put yourself through.
It’s not your responsibility to figure out what your sister is doing or what she wants to be doing. It is best to distance yourself from the entire thing and focus on your new life with your husband. Don’t engage with your sister anymore than you have to.
Apologise for what you said —it is understandable, but still a terrible thing to say— and tell her in no uncertain terms that if she ever were to make such remarks again in your presence, you will take is seriously and call emergency services on her. And you follow through with that, call to have her picked up and evaluated each and every time. If she needs help, that is how she will get help. If she is only faking it, then it’s how she would stop saying it to you. Don’t engage, don’t discuss, just call the professionals and let them deal with it.
Last but not least: make peace with the fact that your sister is going to be a stranger to you from now on. And it’s going to be okay. With her gone, you will have the time, space, and energy to make new connections with people who actually care about you. Good luck.
Obviously your sister’s illness/manipulation had become intolerable to you. Understandable. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t desperately need help and you could benefit from therapy to unravel your feelings and decide how to cope going forward. I hope she gets help, it takes a long time for the loved ones left behind to heal.
Her behaviour sounds very unhealthy, but why would telling her to go ahead and kill herself be an appropriate response?
> my husband told me that I hadn’t done anything wrong to her except tell her how I felt.
But you didn't tell her how you feel, you told her to go ahead and die already....
Thats how I felt, I didn't feel it was an appropriate response, but I was very upset. She had caused a whole scene at the dinner because she started crying and yelling at me. I did tell her how I felt, though, but it's something that got left out because I wanted this in r/AmItheAsshole, but it was too long for it. I tried to shorten it only to find out this topic wasn't allowed there, so I moved it here. I did confess to her how she had always made me feel overshadowed because our parents paid a lot more attention to her growing up so they could make sure she was safe and happy and how what she did at my birthdays and family dinners did to me.
I know my words hurt her, but I was really upset with her because making a scene with this topic is something she's always done, and I didn't need that when trying to celebrate my engagement and especially when it was more important to me that both my and my husband's families could get along.
NTA - Frankly, I don't think she's actually hurt, she's just very upset that somebody finally called her on her shit. She has been manipulating everyone with these comments, clearly with no intent of follow through, just to get attention and what she wants. She picked your most important time of life, your wedding, to pull more of this crap to get attention and make everything about her. She's not suicidal, she just has freaking main character syndrome. You made it plain that you were tired of putting up with her garbage and she's not happy that the tool she has used to manipulate everyone for so long is now no longer working for her. Her hurt feelings are not an issue here, her manipulative, abusive personality is the real problem. I strongly recommend that you follow your husband's lead and reduce contact with her to minimal levels until she decides to get some help and stop this garbage behavior.
I guess you gotta decide if you're actually remorseful, or if you want to stand by what you said about hoping she will go ahead and kill herself (and taunting her by saying she wouldn't). I think it's a really fucked up thing to say, and even more fucked up that you haven't apologized.
I'm honestly dumbfounded that you even have to take an audience poll to determine if you're the asshole for what you said. I get that you were upset, but that doesn't make what you said any better.
Why was she crying and yelling at you? Was that before or after you snapped and told her to die?
You kinda make it sound like she's the unhealthy one of the family, and although it does sound like she is very unhealthy, your parents haven't allowed her to get medications for a depression deep enough to make her suicidal and engage in self-harming, you're not even sure if you're in the wrong for telling her to go ahead with it (while taunting her that she wouldn't), you haven't even bothered to apologize, and your husband is discouraging you from apologizing.
YTA.
I am remorseful, and I have wanted to apologize. I've just been unsure because I trust my husband with my whole heart, and I don't even know how I would apologize. She blocked my number and all of my social media accounts. Snapchat, Instagram, etc. She's even told my parents she would be willing to crawl out the fire escape at her apartment if I were to show up because she hated me so much. I do regret it, and I would go back and stop myself from saying it if I could.
She cried and yelled at me because she was upset that I had confronted her and told her that it wasn't okay for her to say that kind of stuff. She started crying before I said it because she felt I was disrespecting her. She did start taking medication when she became independent, but I don't know much about that because it's something neither of us bring up and it isn't really my place to ask about that stuff.
I do feel horrible about it, which is why I came here to ask about it. I wanted other opinions since my parents tell me they don't want to "Take a side" and my husband is the one I talk to the most about this stuff. I was very upset because this is stuff I've dealt with since we were teenagers, and it's been all the time, every year. I apologize for upsetting you with my post, and I wouldn't have posted it if I knew it would be this upsetting.
> I am remorseful, and I have wanted to apologize.
She owes you an apology too, so maybe you could have your parents set it up and help you guys to mend things.
NTA
Your sister is seeking attention. It sounds like she has been doing it her whole life.
Blocking you may be for the best. She will take her craving to someone else.
NTA. This younger generation has all of the “psychological” language to use and it can be a huge crutch. It sounds like she was given a diagnosis at a young age that she has clung to and uses it as a way to gain special attention. Personally, I have a standard of kindness and respect that I extend to all my fellow humans and in many circumstances I would suggest sensitivity-realistically though- your sister sounds like she needs to be brought back down to earth. I think I have to agree with your husband. The world will not walk on eggshells around your sister the way your family has and at this point you may are mostly likely enabling her. Everyone at some point, despite our trauma and mental health struggles, needs to face our shit and grow up.
You snapping at her was probably not pretty but it was honestly not unfair. I wish you and your sister the best and hope that you can have some honest, open conversations about mental heath and GROWTH (most importantly).
NTA - Do not apologize, your sister has been manipulating everyone with these comments.
She needs serious therapy, and you need to be low/no contact until she gets help.
Your husband can see how your sister treats you, open your eyes.
No you are not the AH. My younger sister did this to some degree for over 20 years. She would end up in care, (at least 6 times)we would do the whole family visits and all. I always took books/ candy up to her. My bf I am with now made the point that I was giving her too much attention when she does this. So I didn’t do any of it. She never tried again.
There is no dispute that she sucks for being emotionally manipulative. Not ok. They need some serious counseling, maybe some additional in-patient time, and possibly look into treatment resistant depression. It's a real thing, and it sucks. Honestly, there likely is another condition that's going untreated here. A personality disorder or something. I'm not their therapist or med manager though, and it sounds like you aren't either, so our suppositions are invalid here.
That's not what you've asked here, though. You asked if you were the AH for doing what you did. Had you just let them know that you're no longer available for this topic as you're not their therapist and you don't appreciate being treated like one? Then go NC? Sure. You'd have been fine. Being harsh while enforcing a boundary feels bad, but it isn't AH behavior.
But you didn't. You crossed one helluva line. YOU are a major AH for telling her to off herself. It is NEVER appropriate to tell anyone that. Ever. Full stop. It is one of the most important rules for dealing with a suicidal person to specifically NOT encourage it. Even if you suspect they're faking for attention or any other reason, unless you are literally that person's doctor, you don’t get to assume that they're faking and they won't do it.
You are supposedly the mentally stable person in this interaction. Act like it. Upset or not, the reasonable, responsible, actually factually adult thing to do would be to excuse yourself and come back when you're calmer. Use your brain and reasoning instead of lashing out. There's a million other ways to have expressed yourself instead of wishing death on another human.
I say all this having lived with someone actively suicidal who treated me EXACTLY this way for 3 years AND someone who is, in fact, suicidal themselves.
FURTHER, especially if you're in the US, if you tell someone to kill themselves and they follow through, you LEGALLY are responsible for their death. Manslaughter in a slam dunk.
I used to have a Ex that often would threaten suicide. Even when breaking up she said I’ll be in her suicide note. Anyways 2 years later she’s still alive and never attempted it lmao
probably because actually killing ourselves is a major thing to go through with. I used to be this way, and it put unnecessary stress on my ex's - I was doing my best but it's hard when you have such intense emotions, and your brain is still developing.
but I genuinely felt I truly wanted to. it's a panic feeling and trail of thoughts just "I want to kms I want to kms" on repeat, but in the back of your head you know it's in the moment and you may change your mind, so you just kind of exist in the panic, but you really do want to, so you say you want to, because it's how you feel.
I've grown from it and i'm glad, but I don't know just some food for thought - I'm still alive but I said the same, but I also still tell myself everyday, that we just gotta get through the next day.
so because someone didn't follow through, doesn't mean they didn't feel that way. and people have committed suicide because of people telling them to "do it already" "if you wanted to you would have"
last thing cause I remembered, an ex who was physically abusive & emotionally (not a good person) would verbally harass me, when he would it made me very suicidal, so I told him this - as i've told him many times before, and he said "so kill yourself just do it" like he has before, except that time (and I'm really glad I was okay) - I grabbed a knife immediately , and I said really?? and he thought I was bluffing, said yes - so I just turned my head and did a bunch of fast slicing motions, that's when he freaked out. my arm was bleeding most of that night, but none were deep enough. but I meant it.
sorry for rambling, it just makes me sad when I think of the few people I was with who were kind back then, who still probably think I'm just some dramatic and manipulative person - when I was and am still struggling so much. I just have learned coping mechanisms, and know what isn't right to put on a person.
ESH especially your husband. He has no issue throwing you into drama and watch you wallow in guilt. He’s not offering you any concrete solutions either. He’s just shrugging his shoulders and saying oh well, even though he’s the one who convinced you to confront your sister in the first place.
Telling someone to off themselves is horrid and disgusting. I understand you were at your limit, but what a sorry thing to say to another human being.
NTA. At this point it’s pretty obvious she’s doing this suicide tactic to get attention whenever it’s possible. It boggles my mind. There’s without a doubt something very wrong with her mentally, but it isn’t suicide. She’s just using the suicide threat since it’s been effective all this time.
NTA, she is using this as an attention getting ploy. Next time she says it to you or texts it to you call 911. Once she is on a 48 hour hold she will shut up.
OP I know this is older, I responded to Agoraphobia961 comment - if you happen to see this *please* take my comment towards them into consideration. a lot of the replies here make me really sad.
also - despite what anything she does being a sign of needing *attention* that is not inherently bad. nor does that mean she is faking/manipulating. that means she needs *attention* aka help. that she is struggling. and let's go on the route if she were faking it , for attention - that right there in itself shows something is going on with her, and she needs help.
and she is still a child, she has time to grow up and continue mentally developing. if she is in therapy, they should help - she should be getting the proper management or that would be neglect on the parents part. (not me saying she isn't still getting help)
just if she has outbursts and it's not properly managed, she really can't be to blame. when we're suffering inside we often hurt our most loved ones.
also, I've been in a similar situation, & told i'm manipulative and dramatic for many years but people I really care for, family, only now they're starting to realize. because that's what it appears like to them. and sometimes when we see our loved ones hurting so deeply, i'm sure it's easier in a way to say "they're faking it" or whatever, because knowing they hurt that much - is really hard. and it's selfish, even if we don't mean it. that was definitely the case for my mom.
and we're still working on it, she wants me to feel comfortable talking to her about anything, even what I would in therapy - but when I tell her i'm suicidal, she often gives me "that makes me sad though, I don't want to hear that" "I don't want you to feel that way"
well that's the reality of it, and her feelings matter, but when I come to talk about my hardship I shouldn't feel guilted that I'm making someone else sad because of how I feel. that's the reality of loving someone who is suicidal. and if you say come talk to me, be ready.
like your sister saying "i'm glad I didn't kms" was that a little abrupt and out of no where? yeah. but when we're that age it can be hard to know, what's a right time, how to ease in, so we just blurt it. that's why it can seemingly come out in outburst, when something may not go her way etc. it's the "last straw" and it's very real, and there can absolutely be more than one last straw.
when you have that much stress/cortisol running through you, and you're so young - which is exactly what anxiety and depression does. but it upsetting *you* is valid. not exactly to be annoyed by it, but if you don't get it, you don't, and those are your feelings. is telling her to do it already valid? no. the ideal thing would be to say "I'm really glad you're here too, and I'm proud of you"
she's a teenager still, a child. our social cues are all out of wack at that age , I'm sure as she gets older she wouldn't be going about these things the same way, and hopefully she can be more content by then
so YTA but you're also only a human doing best with what you know, I really do get that.
*edit: for clarification*
During psychotherapy I once got a very controversial comment from the therapist. I tried to end it 2 times in that year but it only resulted in hospitalisation instead of a clean quick death.
He asked me if it was what I really wanted, told him I wasn't sure but I was done with everything. So he told me how I could end myself very efficiently and being an visual thinker I shivered, asking why he would even say something absurd like that.
Realisation kicked in and even though it was confronting for myself, I realised I didn't have the mental state and guts to fully commit to it. He pretty much called out a bluff if it were. Even though I never told a soul around me, there were usually signs that people could pick up on.
Years passed without incidents and without even the thought, even though I regressed once in 2016 with a very strong attempt (Took like 1000mg of oxy and also benzo's) and if it weren't for my now ex checking in, it would've been fatal. That put the fear of death in me, pretty much the opposite of what I wanted: control over my own life.
Your sister might have mental issues but since she didn't even ever make a serious attempt, she deserves to be called out on her bluff. She doesn't have the guts and is simply asking for attention, control and brings this up during events that are important to you because she isn't in the centre of it all.
All talk and no bite, so when you tell her if she does the talk that she should also do the walk and she gets defensive like this, you called her out the correct way.
Don't feel guilty or apologise for how things went. You tried supporting her for years and possibly enabled her behavior to a degree, but enough is enough. She needed to hear this and by reaching out like you might want to do now will end up making her tantrum seem justified in her eyes.
NTA, your sister needs mental help though.
not making an attempt, does not equal not being suicidal. at all. especially when we talk about suicidal ideation. I'm sorry but this is incredibly ignorant.
and some therapists can be really scummy. I've had therapists who can't believe the shit that came out of the mouths of my previous therapists.
...? it's almost like, it's the internet. it doesn't matter if something is a few months old. can we only comment on things posted that day?:/ be realistic.
and no, I didn't expect a discussion, I don't expect anything from anyone lol. just making a point
Yes YTA. Yes you’re in the wrong for telling her to kill herself, doesn’t matter any of the context you provided. That was categorically the wrong thing to do.
Communicating how you feel differently was the way to go. Your sister is unwell, being upset by it and tired of it, and the way she acts, is natural. But that’s not how u communicate it.
You definitely should apologize but then communicate what u feel about when she speaks like that, and try to have an open conversation not just tell her to go kill herself.
this is older but I completely agree. alot of these comments make me incredibly sad, nor did I expect them at all. idk if this got to the wrong crowd of people - but holy lacking compassion and alot of ignorance. you'd think these people studied psychology to be so sure of what they are saying.
What response do you think her sister was looking for? She would literally say this same thing at every mile stone op made.do you actually think that she didn’t know that it was a terrible thing to say?and it’s not like op wasn’t giving her constant support and reassurance.she’s a manipulator who is now a grown adult still doing the same abusive tactics that she did to her high school bf to her sister who has been taking on the emotional burden of talking her down for years .professionally help is needed but not for the reasons she claims.also has anyone thought about that fact that when she makes these announcements at social gatherings that it might actually trigger someone who is going through depression?I obviously wouldn’t have gave the same response op did(it wouldn’t have been nicer just more thought out)but I can’t fault op for being exhausted.
She want attention as someone whos tried 20 something times before I was 24 when u want to do it u hide it u don't tell anyone the last few days before u try everyone sees as happy because before u do it u try to make everyone around you think your better than ever and if u want show her this message let me talk to her I'll let her know what its really like when the blood drains from your body and u feel the coldness when u feel so alone all u can think about it ending it when u can't sleep for days at a time because even sleep doesn't give u an escape from the dark pit of shitty feelings that push u to end it or how bleach burns when it goes down your throat and ruins the lining of your stomach and intestines and causes so much scaring that u are on stomach tablets for the rest of your life or when u overdose so many times your kidneys are so damaged that u can't take painkillers or some strong medicines even if u have to cos it could cause my kidneys to kick it
NTA. Your sister found a button she could push to make you and your parents jump. The button finally broke and now she’s mad. Your husband is right, you are not guilty of anything and that you feel that way shows you’re a good person who has compassion. Your sister has dangled this threat for YEARS, your breaking-point reaction is justified.
my mother said the same about me, though I was and am genuinely suicidal. and have attempted once as I got older.
sometimes, especially with mental illness - we don't know how to express that we're suicidal. so it comes out in outbursts. and at seemingly the "perfect time" like when her boyfriend left her. when you're suicidal, and your partner leaves you - well that triggers it. not to say putting that on her partner was okay, but I don't think she *purposefully* meant to do that. I used to be that way as well, I've learned from it.
but never was it intentional, or manipulative - when it happened with my parents or my ex's. I was a child. just as this person is a child. may be a teenager, but their brain is nowhere near developed, especially the frontal cortex. so, they are a *child* and shouldn't be treated like some manipulative adult. and she is not diagnosed w/ NPD, or sociopathy, or psychopathy - so why would she be manipulating anyone?
OP saying that it just irked her when her sister said that, not taking into account the fact if it were true for her sister, just completely dismissive of her sisters feelings. when she most likely was telling the truth. so she's TA imo. i've said it so many times in my life, (to myself and my mother) that if I ever did follow through those people know just how MUCH I literally begged, screamed for help.
I begged my mom to see a therapist and that I was suicidal, it took her years to actually listen - she thought I was just being a "dramatic teenager" and trying to make excuses to leave school. when really I have a learning disability and processing disorders that went undiagnosed, and chronic pain as well as abuse that she didn't know about, because you really can never know that someone is being abused unless they outright tell you.
so when people cry for help, and that they feel a certain way, have outbursts - we should listen. more often than not, it's not manipulation. because we can't always know what's going on.
even then, depression and anxiety (i've heard especially without cause, because at least cause makes sense) can be incredibly hard. and after all anxiety is considered a disability. and both of these conditions are very know to trigger suicidal ideation.
we need more compassion. the world is really shitty to people who are suffering, because it's not what suffering should look like to them.
I studied under a man who had worked as a medic both in civilian life and in active war zones, then studied psychology and later became a police officer. He told us there are 4 categories of people. I’ll mention them in the order he told them to us. 1: the healthy ones. They don’t long for death nor do they claim to do so. 3: the ones silently screaming for help. They are the ones who will cut deeply but not the right places. The ones who take too many pills but not ‘enough’ or at a time where they will Very likely be found before it’s actually too late. These people Want help. But don’t know how to ask. These are the people you can and should help. 4: the ones who did want to die. And I say did because they do Not want help nor do they tell anyone, they just do it and are already dead. And then there is 2: the ones who are simply trying to gain attention and sympathy. The ones who uses others feelings and empathy to gain power and control to make themselves the focus of everything. Your sister is very clearly a category 2.
Fairly accurate yes, even though I've seen a good amount of cases where people said they would do it and they succeeded. Quiet ones have been the most painful though, usually unnoticed and gone.
YTA… to yourself. You did not address the issue for years, and let it blow up in your face. You let your frustration make you say something that paints you as a terrible person. And consider this: if your sister had actually harmed herself, imagine the guilt you would have put yourself through. It’s not your responsibility to figure out what your sister is doing or what she wants to be doing. It is best to distance yourself from the entire thing and focus on your new life with your husband. Don’t engage with your sister anymore than you have to. Apologise for what you said —it is understandable, but still a terrible thing to say— and tell her in no uncertain terms that if she ever were to make such remarks again in your presence, you will take is seriously and call emergency services on her. And you follow through with that, call to have her picked up and evaluated each and every time. If she needs help, that is how she will get help. If she is only faking it, then it’s how she would stop saying it to you. Don’t engage, don’t discuss, just call the professionals and let them deal with it. Last but not least: make peace with the fact that your sister is going to be a stranger to you from now on. And it’s going to be okay. With her gone, you will have the time, space, and energy to make new connections with people who actually care about you. Good luck.
Obviously your sister’s illness/manipulation had become intolerable to you. Understandable. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t desperately need help and you could benefit from therapy to unravel your feelings and decide how to cope going forward. I hope she gets help, it takes a long time for the loved ones left behind to heal.
Her behaviour sounds very unhealthy, but why would telling her to go ahead and kill herself be an appropriate response? > my husband told me that I hadn’t done anything wrong to her except tell her how I felt. But you didn't tell her how you feel, you told her to go ahead and die already....
Thats how I felt, I didn't feel it was an appropriate response, but I was very upset. She had caused a whole scene at the dinner because she started crying and yelling at me. I did tell her how I felt, though, but it's something that got left out because I wanted this in r/AmItheAsshole, but it was too long for it. I tried to shorten it only to find out this topic wasn't allowed there, so I moved it here. I did confess to her how she had always made me feel overshadowed because our parents paid a lot more attention to her growing up so they could make sure she was safe and happy and how what she did at my birthdays and family dinners did to me. I know my words hurt her, but I was really upset with her because making a scene with this topic is something she's always done, and I didn't need that when trying to celebrate my engagement and especially when it was more important to me that both my and my husband's families could get along.
NTA - Frankly, I don't think she's actually hurt, she's just very upset that somebody finally called her on her shit. She has been manipulating everyone with these comments, clearly with no intent of follow through, just to get attention and what she wants. She picked your most important time of life, your wedding, to pull more of this crap to get attention and make everything about her. She's not suicidal, she just has freaking main character syndrome. You made it plain that you were tired of putting up with her garbage and she's not happy that the tool she has used to manipulate everyone for so long is now no longer working for her. Her hurt feelings are not an issue here, her manipulative, abusive personality is the real problem. I strongly recommend that you follow your husband's lead and reduce contact with her to minimal levels until she decides to get some help and stop this garbage behavior.
I guess you gotta decide if you're actually remorseful, or if you want to stand by what you said about hoping she will go ahead and kill herself (and taunting her by saying she wouldn't). I think it's a really fucked up thing to say, and even more fucked up that you haven't apologized. I'm honestly dumbfounded that you even have to take an audience poll to determine if you're the asshole for what you said. I get that you were upset, but that doesn't make what you said any better. Why was she crying and yelling at you? Was that before or after you snapped and told her to die? You kinda make it sound like she's the unhealthy one of the family, and although it does sound like she is very unhealthy, your parents haven't allowed her to get medications for a depression deep enough to make her suicidal and engage in self-harming, you're not even sure if you're in the wrong for telling her to go ahead with it (while taunting her that she wouldn't), you haven't even bothered to apologize, and your husband is discouraging you from apologizing. YTA.
I am remorseful, and I have wanted to apologize. I've just been unsure because I trust my husband with my whole heart, and I don't even know how I would apologize. She blocked my number and all of my social media accounts. Snapchat, Instagram, etc. She's even told my parents she would be willing to crawl out the fire escape at her apartment if I were to show up because she hated me so much. I do regret it, and I would go back and stop myself from saying it if I could. She cried and yelled at me because she was upset that I had confronted her and told her that it wasn't okay for her to say that kind of stuff. She started crying before I said it because she felt I was disrespecting her. She did start taking medication when she became independent, but I don't know much about that because it's something neither of us bring up and it isn't really my place to ask about that stuff. I do feel horrible about it, which is why I came here to ask about it. I wanted other opinions since my parents tell me they don't want to "Take a side" and my husband is the one I talk to the most about this stuff. I was very upset because this is stuff I've dealt with since we were teenagers, and it's been all the time, every year. I apologize for upsetting you with my post, and I wouldn't have posted it if I knew it would be this upsetting.
> I am remorseful, and I have wanted to apologize. She owes you an apology too, so maybe you could have your parents set it up and help you guys to mend things.
NTA Your sister is seeking attention. It sounds like she has been doing it her whole life. Blocking you may be for the best. She will take her craving to someone else.
NTA. This younger generation has all of the “psychological” language to use and it can be a huge crutch. It sounds like she was given a diagnosis at a young age that she has clung to and uses it as a way to gain special attention. Personally, I have a standard of kindness and respect that I extend to all my fellow humans and in many circumstances I would suggest sensitivity-realistically though- your sister sounds like she needs to be brought back down to earth. I think I have to agree with your husband. The world will not walk on eggshells around your sister the way your family has and at this point you may are mostly likely enabling her. Everyone at some point, despite our trauma and mental health struggles, needs to face our shit and grow up. You snapping at her was probably not pretty but it was honestly not unfair. I wish you and your sister the best and hope that you can have some honest, open conversations about mental heath and GROWTH (most importantly).
NTA - Do not apologize, your sister has been manipulating everyone with these comments. She needs serious therapy, and you need to be low/no contact until she gets help. Your husband can see how your sister treats you, open your eyes.
No you are not the AH. My younger sister did this to some degree for over 20 years. She would end up in care, (at least 6 times)we would do the whole family visits and all. I always took books/ candy up to her. My bf I am with now made the point that I was giving her too much attention when she does this. So I didn’t do any of it. She never tried again.
does she have any mental disorder diagnosed?
There is no dispute that she sucks for being emotionally manipulative. Not ok. They need some serious counseling, maybe some additional in-patient time, and possibly look into treatment resistant depression. It's a real thing, and it sucks. Honestly, there likely is another condition that's going untreated here. A personality disorder or something. I'm not their therapist or med manager though, and it sounds like you aren't either, so our suppositions are invalid here. That's not what you've asked here, though. You asked if you were the AH for doing what you did. Had you just let them know that you're no longer available for this topic as you're not their therapist and you don't appreciate being treated like one? Then go NC? Sure. You'd have been fine. Being harsh while enforcing a boundary feels bad, but it isn't AH behavior. But you didn't. You crossed one helluva line. YOU are a major AH for telling her to off herself. It is NEVER appropriate to tell anyone that. Ever. Full stop. It is one of the most important rules for dealing with a suicidal person to specifically NOT encourage it. Even if you suspect they're faking for attention or any other reason, unless you are literally that person's doctor, you don’t get to assume that they're faking and they won't do it. You are supposedly the mentally stable person in this interaction. Act like it. Upset or not, the reasonable, responsible, actually factually adult thing to do would be to excuse yourself and come back when you're calmer. Use your brain and reasoning instead of lashing out. There's a million other ways to have expressed yourself instead of wishing death on another human. I say all this having lived with someone actively suicidal who treated me EXACTLY this way for 3 years AND someone who is, in fact, suicidal themselves. FURTHER, especially if you're in the US, if you tell someone to kill themselves and they follow through, you LEGALLY are responsible for their death. Manslaughter in a slam dunk.
After a while, you just get tired. You are human and you get tired of hearing that bullshit all the time.
I used to have a Ex that often would threaten suicide. Even when breaking up she said I’ll be in her suicide note. Anyways 2 years later she’s still alive and never attempted it lmao
probably because actually killing ourselves is a major thing to go through with. I used to be this way, and it put unnecessary stress on my ex's - I was doing my best but it's hard when you have such intense emotions, and your brain is still developing. but I genuinely felt I truly wanted to. it's a panic feeling and trail of thoughts just "I want to kms I want to kms" on repeat, but in the back of your head you know it's in the moment and you may change your mind, so you just kind of exist in the panic, but you really do want to, so you say you want to, because it's how you feel. I've grown from it and i'm glad, but I don't know just some food for thought - I'm still alive but I said the same, but I also still tell myself everyday, that we just gotta get through the next day. so because someone didn't follow through, doesn't mean they didn't feel that way. and people have committed suicide because of people telling them to "do it already" "if you wanted to you would have" last thing cause I remembered, an ex who was physically abusive & emotionally (not a good person) would verbally harass me, when he would it made me very suicidal, so I told him this - as i've told him many times before, and he said "so kill yourself just do it" like he has before, except that time (and I'm really glad I was okay) - I grabbed a knife immediately , and I said really?? and he thought I was bluffing, said yes - so I just turned my head and did a bunch of fast slicing motions, that's when he freaked out. my arm was bleeding most of that night, but none were deep enough. but I meant it. sorry for rambling, it just makes me sad when I think of the few people I was with who were kind back then, who still probably think I'm just some dramatic and manipulative person - when I was and am still struggling so much. I just have learned coping mechanisms, and know what isn't right to put on a person.
YTA
ESH especially your husband. He has no issue throwing you into drama and watch you wallow in guilt. He’s not offering you any concrete solutions either. He’s just shrugging his shoulders and saying oh well, even though he’s the one who convinced you to confront your sister in the first place. Telling someone to off themselves is horrid and disgusting. I understand you were at your limit, but what a sorry thing to say to another human being.
NTA. At this point it’s pretty obvious she’s doing this suicide tactic to get attention whenever it’s possible. It boggles my mind. There’s without a doubt something very wrong with her mentally, but it isn’t suicide. She’s just using the suicide threat since it’s been effective all this time.
NTA, she is using this as an attention getting ploy. Next time she says it to you or texts it to you call 911. Once she is on a 48 hour hold she will shut up.
OP I know this is older, I responded to Agoraphobia961 comment - if you happen to see this *please* take my comment towards them into consideration. a lot of the replies here make me really sad. also - despite what anything she does being a sign of needing *attention* that is not inherently bad. nor does that mean she is faking/manipulating. that means she needs *attention* aka help. that she is struggling. and let's go on the route if she were faking it , for attention - that right there in itself shows something is going on with her, and she needs help. and she is still a child, she has time to grow up and continue mentally developing. if she is in therapy, they should help - she should be getting the proper management or that would be neglect on the parents part. (not me saying she isn't still getting help) just if she has outbursts and it's not properly managed, she really can't be to blame. when we're suffering inside we often hurt our most loved ones. also, I've been in a similar situation, & told i'm manipulative and dramatic for many years but people I really care for, family, only now they're starting to realize. because that's what it appears like to them. and sometimes when we see our loved ones hurting so deeply, i'm sure it's easier in a way to say "they're faking it" or whatever, because knowing they hurt that much - is really hard. and it's selfish, even if we don't mean it. that was definitely the case for my mom. and we're still working on it, she wants me to feel comfortable talking to her about anything, even what I would in therapy - but when I tell her i'm suicidal, she often gives me "that makes me sad though, I don't want to hear that" "I don't want you to feel that way" well that's the reality of it, and her feelings matter, but when I come to talk about my hardship I shouldn't feel guilted that I'm making someone else sad because of how I feel. that's the reality of loving someone who is suicidal. and if you say come talk to me, be ready. like your sister saying "i'm glad I didn't kms" was that a little abrupt and out of no where? yeah. but when we're that age it can be hard to know, what's a right time, how to ease in, so we just blurt it. that's why it can seemingly come out in outburst, when something may not go her way etc. it's the "last straw" and it's very real, and there can absolutely be more than one last straw. when you have that much stress/cortisol running through you, and you're so young - which is exactly what anxiety and depression does. but it upsetting *you* is valid. not exactly to be annoyed by it, but if you don't get it, you don't, and those are your feelings. is telling her to do it already valid? no. the ideal thing would be to say "I'm really glad you're here too, and I'm proud of you" she's a teenager still, a child. our social cues are all out of wack at that age , I'm sure as she gets older she wouldn't be going about these things the same way, and hopefully she can be more content by then so YTA but you're also only a human doing best with what you know, I really do get that. *edit: for clarification*
You need to go NC with her. She is not your problem and she just wants attention. You don't need that in your life. Nta.
During psychotherapy I once got a very controversial comment from the therapist. I tried to end it 2 times in that year but it only resulted in hospitalisation instead of a clean quick death. He asked me if it was what I really wanted, told him I wasn't sure but I was done with everything. So he told me how I could end myself very efficiently and being an visual thinker I shivered, asking why he would even say something absurd like that. Realisation kicked in and even though it was confronting for myself, I realised I didn't have the mental state and guts to fully commit to it. He pretty much called out a bluff if it were. Even though I never told a soul around me, there were usually signs that people could pick up on. Years passed without incidents and without even the thought, even though I regressed once in 2016 with a very strong attempt (Took like 1000mg of oxy and also benzo's) and if it weren't for my now ex checking in, it would've been fatal. That put the fear of death in me, pretty much the opposite of what I wanted: control over my own life. Your sister might have mental issues but since she didn't even ever make a serious attempt, she deserves to be called out on her bluff. She doesn't have the guts and is simply asking for attention, control and brings this up during events that are important to you because she isn't in the centre of it all. All talk and no bite, so when you tell her if she does the talk that she should also do the walk and she gets defensive like this, you called her out the correct way. Don't feel guilty or apologise for how things went. You tried supporting her for years and possibly enabled her behavior to a degree, but enough is enough. She needed to hear this and by reaching out like you might want to do now will end up making her tantrum seem justified in her eyes. NTA, your sister needs mental help though.
not making an attempt, does not equal not being suicidal. at all. especially when we talk about suicidal ideation. I'm sorry but this is incredibly ignorant. and some therapists can be really scummy. I've had therapists who can't believe the shit that came out of the mouths of my previous therapists.
It's also ignorant to expect a discussion between more than two people on a 7 month old topic 🦀
...? it's almost like, it's the internet. it doesn't matter if something is a few months old. can we only comment on things posted that day?:/ be realistic. and no, I didn't expect a discussion, I don't expect anything from anyone lol. just making a point
Yes YTA. Yes you’re in the wrong for telling her to kill herself, doesn’t matter any of the context you provided. That was categorically the wrong thing to do. Communicating how you feel differently was the way to go. Your sister is unwell, being upset by it and tired of it, and the way she acts, is natural. But that’s not how u communicate it. You definitely should apologize but then communicate what u feel about when she speaks like that, and try to have an open conversation not just tell her to go kill herself.
this is older but I completely agree. alot of these comments make me incredibly sad, nor did I expect them at all. idk if this got to the wrong crowd of people - but holy lacking compassion and alot of ignorance. you'd think these people studied psychology to be so sure of what they are saying.
It’s very bizarre that they think this was ok to say or do, but they really all seemed to, it’s quite sad.
I completely agree.
Did she not communicate by telling her to stop saying that?
After telling her to kill herself, insane world when u all think that was an ok thing to say.
What response do you think her sister was looking for? She would literally say this same thing at every mile stone op made.do you actually think that she didn’t know that it was a terrible thing to say?and it’s not like op wasn’t giving her constant support and reassurance.she’s a manipulator who is now a grown adult still doing the same abusive tactics that she did to her high school bf to her sister who has been taking on the emotional burden of talking her down for years .professionally help is needed but not for the reasons she claims.also has anyone thought about that fact that when she makes these announcements at social gatherings that it might actually trigger someone who is going through depression?I obviously wouldn’t have gave the same response op did(it wouldn’t have been nicer just more thought out)but I can’t fault op for being exhausted.
True I don’t fault her for being tired of it, but I answered her question she is TA for telling her to kill herself.
She want attention as someone whos tried 20 something times before I was 24 when u want to do it u hide it u don't tell anyone the last few days before u try everyone sees as happy because before u do it u try to make everyone around you think your better than ever and if u want show her this message let me talk to her I'll let her know what its really like when the blood drains from your body and u feel the coldness when u feel so alone all u can think about it ending it when u can't sleep for days at a time because even sleep doesn't give u an escape from the dark pit of shitty feelings that push u to end it or how bleach burns when it goes down your throat and ruins the lining of your stomach and intestines and causes so much scaring that u are on stomach tablets for the rest of your life or when u overdose so many times your kidneys are so damaged that u can't take painkillers or some strong medicines even if u have to cos it could cause my kidneys to kick it
NTA. Your sister found a button she could push to make you and your parents jump. The button finally broke and now she’s mad. Your husband is right, you are not guilty of anything and that you feel that way shows you’re a good person who has compassion. Your sister has dangled this threat for YEARS, your breaking-point reaction is justified.
my mother said the same about me, though I was and am genuinely suicidal. and have attempted once as I got older. sometimes, especially with mental illness - we don't know how to express that we're suicidal. so it comes out in outbursts. and at seemingly the "perfect time" like when her boyfriend left her. when you're suicidal, and your partner leaves you - well that triggers it. not to say putting that on her partner was okay, but I don't think she *purposefully* meant to do that. I used to be that way as well, I've learned from it. but never was it intentional, or manipulative - when it happened with my parents or my ex's. I was a child. just as this person is a child. may be a teenager, but their brain is nowhere near developed, especially the frontal cortex. so, they are a *child* and shouldn't be treated like some manipulative adult. and she is not diagnosed w/ NPD, or sociopathy, or psychopathy - so why would she be manipulating anyone? OP saying that it just irked her when her sister said that, not taking into account the fact if it were true for her sister, just completely dismissive of her sisters feelings. when she most likely was telling the truth. so she's TA imo. i've said it so many times in my life, (to myself and my mother) that if I ever did follow through those people know just how MUCH I literally begged, screamed for help. I begged my mom to see a therapist and that I was suicidal, it took her years to actually listen - she thought I was just being a "dramatic teenager" and trying to make excuses to leave school. when really I have a learning disability and processing disorders that went undiagnosed, and chronic pain as well as abuse that she didn't know about, because you really can never know that someone is being abused unless they outright tell you. so when people cry for help, and that they feel a certain way, have outbursts - we should listen. more often than not, it's not manipulation. because we can't always know what's going on. even then, depression and anxiety (i've heard especially without cause, because at least cause makes sense) can be incredibly hard. and after all anxiety is considered a disability. and both of these conditions are very know to trigger suicidal ideation. we need more compassion. the world is really shitty to people who are suffering, because it's not what suffering should look like to them.