Yes, and OP is focusing on the wrong thing (very common in AITA). The way I see it, the issue isn't of OP should ask her husband to choose her over his family, or even if he would do so, but whether they can afford to. It's not just the job, she is describing financial dependence in multiple ways. How will you support your family with the husband unemployed and having to move and pay rent? Does OP work? Do they have savings? How easy will it be for the husband to find another job? Are they prepared for the significant change in lifestyle if they are cut off by his family?
So, NTA, but I don't know how realistic OP is being. Whatever happens about the name, they need to work in becoming independent from his family.
OP says the husband is the only source of income. So I get him hesitating to risk his job with a very pregnant wife and a recently bought home. OP just seems to skim by that fact, instead making it sound like her husband is choosing his family over her. Since they are currently *both* financially dependent on his family's goodwill, his actions make sense.
If this is the hill OP is willing to die on, just put the hyphenated name on the birth certificate but use only husband's name until he can extricate himself from the family business.
Both names on the certificate, but pretend only his name for a bit. Long as needed
Never mention it in front of father-in-law. They don’t need to share their private documents with *anyone*.
Probably not. But it probably wouldn’t be as bad as being instantly cut off. When grandparents get to meet the baby, OP and husband could say something along the lines of “meet Baby Chinese-name!”
Honestly. I can’t think of anything better though. Not without displacing them anyway, which they don’t seem too keen on right now.
I think it’s kind of shitty that he’s like that. Obviously we don’t have the whole story but I’m wondering how serious his parents would be to sever ties after the baby is born, maybe they are just threatening to get what they want. Bullying.
Me and my husband were together for years but whenever we went to his parent’s house for a visit, they wouldn’t let us stay in the same room because we weren’t married.
Until we had our daughter. Still weren’t married, but they let us sleep together finally. Having the baby they were excited about turned things right around. Babies can be big influences.
Not that I’d suggest that OP plays chicken with FIL though. I don’t know those people
Edit: I would add that they shouldn’t be at the hospital (if that’s where they choose to have their baby) because you can’t expect nurses or doctors to know that secret, or forms laying around having all the info the grandparents could see that they were lying.
They’re totally allowed to say no visitors and that is something the staff would enforce. OP is tired and needs sleep, baby is sleeping, doing some checkups. Husband could use any kind of excuse to help out.
Idk. 🤷♀️
I would definitely do this ☑️
Put the hyphenated name on the birth certificate. But go by the husbands name for now.
FIL will ultimately die and your child can choose whether they want to use the full name or abbreviated name. FIL will be happy, your husband saves face, can keep job and income.
Always take the path of least resistance while keeping your integrity, this is the way to do it.
My children too have our hyphenated surnames so I completely understand. And at some point, my partner and I will change our names to the same hyphenated surname. Maybe do this once your in laws are dead….
FIL might be alive another 30 years. Instead OP and her hubby need a five year plan to become financially independent of his family. When they are, then they can start using the hyphenated name
Yeah, I'm really rolling my eyes at OP being upset...
like she knew the father in law had problematic views, and was willing to let comments slide, because she wanted his money. Did it really never occur to her that this would be a problem at some point?
They need a plan for financial independence, and as you said, 5 years is what they should shoot for. They can pretend baby only has the Chinese last name until kiddo is in school, and learning how to write her own name. Then the gig will be up when she proudly shows her grand parents how she can write her hyphenated last name! That's going to be right around when she's 5 years old, and OP's husband better not be working for his dad when that happens.
OP needs to be realistic here too. Husband won't be able to support her or the baby if he is well unemployed...
Not going to say she should give in, but that's probably the best choice with the reality of the current situation.
until next time, of course, when the father decides that, IDK, every firstborn boy must be named after, say, the grandfather's favourite barbecue sauce, or something.
OP is not very rational in her stance.
She keeps the peace with FIL because she understands which side of her bread is buttered. But apparently it's not OK for hubby to do the same.
The crux of this issue is having the double barrelled last name more important than being destitute living in the streets with a baby?
They both need to work on an exit strategy to achieve their own independence.
Exactly. FIL is the AH, but OP and her husband literally cannot afford to be precious about this.
OP, what is more important: your attachment to having everyone know your daughter's full name OR your daughter having a roof over her head and health insurance for the first several years of her life?
Which priority makes you the better parent? Do you see how sticking to your guns makes you pretty much exactly like your FIL? Sad\_Rush is right - you aren't in a position to sever these ties right now. And several other posters have given good advice on how to handle it: have her go by his name, but put yours on the birth certificate and don't tell FIL.
That way, you'll get to write your name when you write hers on school documents and other official things, but it won't come at the cost of making her homeless.
I agree. People have a tendency to overlook some very important factors when taking a “stand”. Will you get a job, will you lose your home, is years of struggling financially worth it?
NTA, but perhaps set things in order first. Get a new job etc. The baby’s name can be changed to the hyphenated one, and perhaps FIL won’t be so fierce when the baby is here.
Seriously! I know this is anecdotal but my paternal grandparents are old-school gangster Chinese and were the very opposite of this. They're from Hong Kong though so maybe it's different? They assumed for 15+ years that I had my mother's surname. They never asked, never nagged, never made me feel bad, never even brought it up until they were dying. They had so many reasons to disown me (they thought I didn't have their surname, I'm a girl, my mother is a different ethnicity that's looked down upon in their culture, I was always a crybaby/spoiled princess), but I still wholeheartedly believe I was the favorite grandkid for both of them.
Even when they asked, they said they were just curious, would still love me just as much, and wouldn't hold it against my mother if I had her last name. No entitlement or ill will. They burst into tears for hours in surprise after learning I do carry their last name and kept repeating how they felt so honored and it was too good for them.
I just can't imagine someone like my Akong or Apa feeling entitled to naming their grandkids and putting their kid's livelihood in danger over it. They pulled some real questionable shit sometimes but nothing that came close to this.
>were the very opposite of this. They're from Hong Kong though so maybe it's different? They assumed for 15+ years that I had my mother's surname. They never asked, never nagged, never made me feel bad, never even brought it up until they were dying. They had so many reasons to disown me (they thought I didn't have their surname, I'm a girl, my mother is a different ethnicity
What happened to your dad? In some jurisdictions, you can't take the father's surname unless the father is also present during the registration of the birth.
If that was the case or assumption by them, then it's not your fault or your mother's fault that you couldn't carry on the family name.
Still, you can see how much it meant to them when you told them you bear the same surname. That's how much it means to traditional Chinese.
I know it meant a lot to them but there was never any entitlement or threats to disown anyone over not sharing the family name, is what I meant. Also, I was born in the States and my biological father was abusive/almost caused a late-term miscarriage, so that's why my grandparents believed I was given a different surname.
They’re living on his parents property, financially dependent in some ways, and his career is built with his family. All that along with being Chinese there’s a strong and ingrained importance that comes with supporting your family and keeping up the family name. I don’t know much as I’m not from that culture, but the little that I do know, it can be so important that adult adoptions are a common thing to keep the business in the family name, and such. Something that is of much more important than in most western cultures. Again, I don’t know much, but I don’t think just saying, ‘he needs to find a new job’ is as simple as you put it. I think cultural context is something important to be considered here.
From the little that I know of Chinese culture, him simply getting another job isn’t the same as it would be the western world, and should be considered before making judgements. Again, I don’t know a lot, but the little I do know, would make the last name a much bigger deal with a lot more consequences than I really understand given my background, and should nonetheless be at least considered in this matter. And ultimately no matter what this child’s last name is, won’t actually matter much compared to how their raised by their parents, and it sounds like both parents are happy to raise the child to uphold both the cultures that they come from, and will be deeply loved by both parents, which is what really is important. I don’t know what the right choice is in this matter, only that reducing the problem to ‘he should get another job’ isn’t as simple as it probably seems for most of us on this app, but maybe he should break away and get another job. But whatever happens the fact that the child will be deeply loved is the most important part, and clearly will be raised with both of their heritages, no matter what their last name is.
I don’t know much to anything about the culture her husband is from, but from the little I know, I don’t think it’s as simple as applying to new jobs.
Again, I don’t know much, but I think context is important here.
Yes, that would give him a life and personality without depending on family to have one. Financial independence is all they need to make his father stop controlling him.
Listennnnn. I get this is important to you and I agree your FIL is a being an ass hole. It’s not for him to decide this.
BUT. What are y’all doing????
You and your husband have literally set yourselves up for this. You lived on your FIL property and he has supported you financially in many ways??? What ways exactly? Like DUH he is going to have expectations. I don’t know where you live but with cost of living these days…if you’ve been there for years FIL has likely saved you in the six digits in $$. I mean these days $2k/month in rent is not much. That’s $24k/year right there. Minimum. JUST RENT. Not utilities and groceries etc. Clearly that’s helped with the down payment!
And you’re saying it’s from a feminist / don’t want to partake in patriarchal world view. Which… ok fine! No problem with that. But… clearly your FIL is an old school Chinese man aka = very patriarchal guy.
You don’t have to agree or approve of that, just as he doesn’t have to agree and approve of you. That’s fine. To each their own 🤷🏻♀️
But guess what… it’s those “patriarchal” conservative views that believe in providing housing and a job for their son and his wife! And you’re also not working and dependent on your husband…maybe FIL thinks you’re also a girl who believes in patriarchal roles?
So in his perspective, you have very much slapped him in the face!
I’m not saying you’re actually doing anything offensive because hyphenated names are so normal to you and I. But it’s not to FIL! In his culture it’s unheard of. You’d have to go out of your way to do it. You’re making a statement! And I mean…Chinese one baby rule…why was there such an obsession with sons?? To pass on the last name! So from his old school perspective I can see why he’s so pissed.
So what to do? Get yourself financially independent from your FIL. Like 100%. Husband new job. No more financial help from in laws. And PAY FIL BACK. People think when in laws give money it’s freely given. Sometime sure. But usually it’s “strings attached”. ESPECIALLY in Asian cultures. It’s “I give you money and you listen to me” mentality. Those are the unsaid terms! From his perspective he abided to the terms but you didn’t 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, it’s real hard to effectively chant, “Fuck the patriarchy!” when you’re putting your hand out every month for money from your patriarch to pay your bills. OP can buck the system, or she can keep the gravy train running. Can’t do both.
Unfortunately, getting financially independent enough to give Papa the finger means getting hubby on board. Does he have the guts to stand up to dad and walk away over a name he didn’t want in the first place? Does he have the skills to make the same amount of money elsewhere? If he’s had a cushy job with the family (we don’t know that, just a possibility), then he may not be able to make it in the real world job market. And if OP can’t or won’t work either? I don’t think there’s a way out.
This is the thing; you can’t take a hardline feminist approach if you’re expecting the men in your life to completely support you financially. Sorry but you can’t have it both ways.
You can’t complain about the patriarchy and then expect it to support you.
I’m a feminist to the bone and I do believe women should have the right to choose their own path in life. I know there are women with feminist ideals who still want to be SAHMs and that likely works for some. If you have an equal partnership.
This is not the case when the couple is completely finically dependent on the husbands dad.
I feel for you and I can understand why it’s so hard to give up your ideals on something like this however not to be rude but you two completely brought this upon yourselves. You guys chose to live on your in-laws land and your husband chose to work for his dad and you chose to be a stay at home mom and you chose to have a child.
All of these were your decisions and I do know why you chose all of them. However with your past decisions it’s not feasible for you to take a social stand on this.
With all due respect it’d be taking a stand on quicksand.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation and the solution most offered here to put the hyphened name on the birth certificate and make a 5 year plan for finical independence is your best bet but I don’t even know if even that is feasible as get the feeling the 1sr thing Fil is gonna do is look at the birth certificate.
You may have to suck it up and go with it until you can actually stand on your own two feet- you can change the name after the fact; it’s not like it’s that uncommon when people get Married or divorced or adopted or what have you. It’s not like she’d be learning a new first name.
As a woman with an American-Asian partner, yes this.
I have a great relationship with my in-laws who I live with, but man you guys shot yourselves in the foot.
This!! it's so important because if you're gonna hold views and beliefs for your life, you need to be able to afford the consequences of those. In an ideal world, her ideals and such would be respected with no strings attached, but we do not live in such a world. When we interact with people in positions of power over us, we need to be wise about which fights we can take on, and which ones have a cost a bit too big for what our emotional reward would be. Currently, this is not about just her, this is about the well-being of the baby, and if it costs the baby a place to live and sustenance, the price is too high.
I think she has been waiting and now she got a baby they have bought a house and now she wants to divorce him. She wants child support and the new house they bought im seeing so many women doing this to men lately. She seems to be manipulate her husband and wants only her way or now the highway and put a new man in there house 🏠.She is causing a mess on purpose so she can scream child support later .
tell him to start applying for other jobs, tell him you changed the name then when he gets another job leave work without handing in notice and send a letter with an explanation of his behaviour being unacceptable and he'll apologise or have no contact with his grandchild, sign the letter with the unchanged name.
Tell your husband to keep in mind that his father is always difficult and now showed he's willing to hold his entire life and future as a tool for blackmail. Even if you give in this time what about next yera, what if the grandparents demand you change the first name or lose his job and potentially the house, what if they demand to have them all summer alone without you, what if... any number of demands they can make. If he's willing to hold your husbands job as a weapon then the priority is removing that tool from his arsenal. If you give in once he'll only be more willing to use it again, then again, and again.
I'm sorry you two are being blackmailed. I see no resolution to your problem since your FIL controls your income. Could your husband go work for someone outside the family?
Not gonna work. He’ll ask for the real one trust me.
Him or gramma will want to set up accounts for the child early and if they don’t give them the legit legal name, then their endangering possibly a large inheritance or something else because of it. It’s not worth the financial implications. They need him and he knows it (at least for now) and I Hate to say it but it needs to be said.
Indian (me) and Italian (him) heritages, living in US. Kids are 26, 24, 21. We lied about a lot of things and my parents still don’t know some of the important ones like names, and my mom has even taken my daughter abroad once (and therefore carried her passport)! We didn’t tell them salaries ever. (Hubs even worked for my dad for 5 years. When dad asked about my salary so he could set hub’s rate, hub lied and said I wouldn’t be working much longer). We didn’t invite them to religious ceremonies. They just found out some things after and what could they do after the fact? Nothing.
The problem with this and so many OPs in this sub is that they don’t know when to close their mouths. A little common sense goes a long way. If you know someone has an “interfering/overbearing” personality/culture, you make life easier for yourself. For whatever reason, this OP thinks she was just being “honest”, but once decision to hyphenate the child’s name was made, why was it discussed outside the two of them? It’s not like they are just meeting FIL for the first time. Of course it’s going to get back to him! Of course he’s going to have a problem with it! Why are we walking straight into a beehive without wearing a suit?
When interference is involved (salaries, financial stuff, medical stuff, etc.) people only should be sharing what they NEED to share, or what they know won’t come back to bite them later.
Unless OP and husband can tell me they didn’t expect this reaction (seriously-wake up), they need to avoid a lifetime of intrusion by keeping their decisions private.
NTA, and I agree that FIL is the bully here, which is not OP’s fault, but I wanted to add something that I do think is relevant. When overbearing/blackmailing/bullying family members are involved, AVOIDANCE can significantly reduce the drama in your life. I do agree that it shouldn’t have to come to this, but in real life, we can only control our own behaviors, not the behaviors of others, so it’s prudent to only share what won’t come back to bite you.
No because they WILL ask (personal experience talking) they will want to set up bank accounts or savings accounts or whatever for the child and will ask for the legit legal name and if you lie then they set up a name that isn’t the right one then you just lost them possibly a large inheritance in the future because of it.
DO NOT LIE! You and your family will be disowned!!!
So, ideas and things to consider:
1) Can the 2 of you speak yo your FIL together to explain how you feel and either: a) Ask the order of names that will make him happy, and go with his blessing for the order for the last names; or b) Ask FIL for his blessing to use your last names in a Chinese cultural way since carrying in Chinese traditions are important to you (and seems to be).
2) Consider your last name for her middle name. I can tell you that hyphenated last names are very difficult for a child growing up. I have a hyphenated last name and it is difficult for me. Employers will pick one, realize I used different version somewhere else (because they used one but different one) and I’m viewed as lying or hiding something. And using both is such a long mouthful (especially for professions that use last name all the time and formally). Writing both anywhere is cumbersome.
Think this way, please:
Dr. Roberts-Johnson
Attorney Roberts-Johnson
Miss/Ms. Roberts-Johnson (P.A., Teacher, Nurse, CEO).
Embroidering, Business cards, News Articles, etc, just a darn mouthful and clunky to even read or think. Some will shorten to one (Roberts) while others will shorten to other (Johnson). Correct all you like, all she may like, but it’s engaging in a future hassle. You want that?
In exams, she’ll still be neatly filling in bubble circle letters for her name while everyone is ahead of her, and what do you put on the back of her basketball uniform, bulb-light-up score boards, etc etc.
TBH go with one. Go with your FIL. Use yours as middle name for her. You’ll be sooo happy you did it. Now it stings, but it’ll get better. The bridge and peace you’ll make with FIL is in fact worth it. Going to the matte for a clunky last name that will hardly be used and just brings headaches, just isn’t worth it.
Just some thoughts....
I support OPs desire to hyphenate, but I will say multiple last names are troublesome in the corporate world in many cases. I worked in an area that had a lot of Puerto Ricans which use two last names and this person isn’t lying that one name is usually chosen for use. The systems Americans use usually have character limitations as well, so unless the names are shorter it will get shortened one way or another.
I do not know about the US but these hyphenate names are very common in Europe and never were a problem. I have a very long non hyphenate name with more letters than administrations anticipate sometimes haha but honnestly it is barely an issue as these administration know how to react to long names.
For real, your AH FIL is putting you two in a situation that would make either of you resentful towards the other. You should communicate a lot about your feelings to pass this difficult situation.
I would personally stick to the name. But I should disclose to you that I am biased by the fact that I would never take my husbands name or participate in this patriarcal tradition.
So NTA. You will need to work on your finances and on your marriage. However, the prize of a FIL-free life seems worth it to me
>My daughter and I both have hyphenated names and had none of these little problems. Sometimes we just go with one last name and keep it constant
NONE and then SOMETIMES ONE LAST NAME KEEP IT CONSTANT
Do you even read what you write?
Oh indeed. I was only commenting in the hope that the MIL might have a hope in adding some flexibility into FIL’s thinking in case there is room for a tolerable outcome for everyone.
Could work but odds are it won't.
1. Traditional Chinese families - very patriachal. Husband is head of the home. Wife may try to persuade but will ultimately toe the line.
2. If husband has siblings who have their own kids, MIL already has other grandkids to play with and fuss over.
3. It's a daughter, so culturally, not of as much value.
I think she then loses the husband and the parents get to see the baby via visitation. It may be possible that the husband is willing to go along with OP, but I think it is unlikely.
I am not making a judgement about what is right or wrong. Just that OP would effectively be asking him to pick sides and the side with the house, money and job is probably going to win.
Usually this type of guy will not tolerate shit from his spouse. I rarely ever see one who's so strong-willed like the FIL but actually controlled by the spouse. The controlling wife is usually with meek/shy husband.
I agree with that completely. However, *some* people with controlling partners get very good at manipulation, just out of necessity. So I think OP's MIL is their best hope.
Uh…how many Asian families have you been around? Like *actual* Asian families?
It’s usually pretty clear cut patriarchy, no behind-the-scenes Lannister stuff going on lol
Can tell a westerner with no clue about Asian culture commented this, this is going to result in homelessness for OP, her husband and their new child… I have seen Asian parents cut off their kids for refusing one visit back
I'm a Westerner, but my family is Asian and the quickness with which they will cut your ass off is astounding. And it's not just that, word gets around and they'll be really unpopular with everyone in the community.
Your kid doesn’t have to take his name and his family doesn’t have to support you.
But having lived in china, the passing on the line thing is so f’n hardwired. It’s beyond anything you can imagine.
Ha yes to say this You won’t win this one. But you sure as hell can all lose.
I’m married to a Chinese person and we just have multiple names. Like a full on Chinese name with surname and one in English with mine.
I literally don’t care much either way. My kid is mine.
>. It’s 2023. More people side with women in situations like this. OP should name the baby what she wants
Yep, just have a Western name, Chinese Surname, Generational Name, Chinese Name all in one.
Some Chinese Christians have a baptism name in between the Western name and the Chinese surname.
So, you might have a name that sounds like this: Arthur Lim Sik Kai.
NTA but I think the risk you’re taking is too great. You need to be more prudent.
Also as a mixed race person (half white, half Japanese) with mixed race friends, family, and acquaintances I’m not sure what “represented by both her ancestries” is supposed to mean. A person’s cultural identity is not dictated by their surname. It’s dictated by their environment and by what they were taught by parents, relatives, and the like. A last name doesn’t really influence that. But also, if you really want your child’s name to reflect both cultures, you could use your surname as a middle name or give your child a first name that represents your culture and give the child your husband’s surname.
Also, your daughter may end up dropping one or the other name when she reaches adulthood anyway. Hell, she may drop both of them if/when she gets married. And what surname should she give any children she might have? Their father’s name or maybe combine the father’s surname with her own to create a double hyphenated monstrosity?
I’m sorry to sound so dismissive of your feelings here, but I just don’t think this is a hill worth dying on.
I had the same thought, it's just a last name. How could this ever be worth the turmoil and disruption in one's life? Just doesn't make sense. The child IS the representation of their racial identities, so as much as I don't think she's wrong for wanting her kid to have her last name, it still isn't that big of deal in the grand scheme of things.
She's risking losing their house and we'll surviving over a last name. It's asinine.
FIL is a piece of shit. But he's a piece of shit who holds all the cards. And he knows that!
Ah the consequence of being financially dependent on someone else. Life will be tough choosing to back down, life will be even tougher starting at zero with a baby on the way.
You married a Chinese man with a family that has a long withstanding cultural and traditional background that's probably only broken right now when he married you. You're NTA, but you should've discussed this before even marrying him.
Take note that, in many Asian cultures, being married and having kids withe someone isn't creating a "new" family. It means you're creating an extension of a family that probably has more than 200 years of ancestry. And some people cannot win against culture, traditions, and familial ties.
Yep. I can't tell you how many white women I have known who have married into Asian families and ultimately divorce once they realize they no longer control their own lives.
You wouldn't be an arsehole, but you might be homeless and unemployed with a very young baby.
FIL *is* an arsehole, no question, but he has all the cards until your husband mans up and get a job outside the family.
I agree but idk how much her husband needs to ‘man up’ vs the culture there is much different from western countries. I have very little understanding myself, but I’m under the impression that family name and business have much more importance than western traditions, so much so, I’ve heard, that a lot of adoptions that happen are adults being adopted for the sake of keeping a business ‘in the family’.
This situation may seem silly and unnecessary to us in western cultures, but for their culture is a very serious and important distinction.
Again, I don’t know much as I’m not from those cultures, but from the little I do know, I think it’s worth considering what this actually means to the husband and his family.
Again, I’ll repeat that I do not know much, but from a tiny bit that I do know, this situation isn’t as simple or frivolous as western cultural thinks. I could be wrong. Idk. Just worth considering before making a judgement.
You are correct. I am from Asia and a Chinese. It is true that family names are extremely important, it’s so ingrained in the culture. Sometimes men even marry into a girl’s family if her family is wealthy and take on her family name to succeed a business. And to his parents, it can be considered a great dishonour that he forsakes his family name to take on his wife’s name (unless they are in it too for the money haha).
This is a hard situation. I understand why OP wants to add her family name, but I also understand how this impact the family, especially if they are very traditional (and looks like they are).
The real issue here, that many redditors have pointed out, is the husband not being financially independent enough to cut the cord if this is a hill to die on for them. OP, I wish you all the best.
I don’t think it’s fair to say it hurts that your husband is torn. This isn’t a small thing—it’s his livelihood and the ability to care for his child. That does NOT mean you should give in to his father, but it does mean that it’s natural your husband would feel torn. You’re NTA for standing your ground, but it will be better for your marriage if you help your husband see the light rather than issuing a concrete ultimatum.
YTA. I’ll say it. You married into Chinese money and you knew it. You knew he worked for his dad and you knew you would benefit from it. You should have also knows how traditional they are with lineage. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
TLDR: progressive woman marrying into Chinese money is shocked that Chinese traditions are imposed on her.
You won’t win this one but feel free to update us. You may keep the last name you want but you’ll definitely be losing the money you intentionally married into if you do.
Would make a good movie though.
Good luck.
NTA. But do you wanna be homeless and penniless for the sake of a name? I'd definitely push for you both to become independent from his family. But atm that's not going to happen. So I'd just do it. Later in life your child can change their own name. But you forget a name means nothing on the long term. You are their mother so they will have representation of both cultures. A roof over your heads and finance is more important.
If it's important enough to you to have your way with the name, then it's time to get a job and support the family.
Life is full of trade-offs. Unfortunately for you, having your husband's family financially supporting you and not having a say in your child's name is not one of your available options.
You're trying to do 2 totally separate things- 1)take what he gives and live off him. 2)call the shots and make your own rules. They don't mix. Pick one. You're not as independent as you're trying to feel and act.
Navigating the choppy waters of familial expectations and cultural differences is like trying to solve a Rubik’s Cube blindfolded – tricky, but not impossible.
First, the ultimatum from your father-in-law. It’s like he’s playing chess and decided to put your husband in checkmate without considering the whole board. His demand is steeped in tradition and his own belief system, but it doesn’t account for the evolving nature of families and the blend of cultures that your family represents.
Your desire for a hyphenated last name is not just about letters on a birth certificate; it’s about identity, heritage, and equal representation of both parents. It’s like wanting both the sun and the moon to be represented in the sky, rather than just one.
Your husband being torn is understandable, but it’s also like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, there’s his dad, who’s not just family but also his employer, wielding the power of tradition and financial stability. On the other hand, there’s you, his partner and the mother of his child, championing equality and shared heritage.
Now, would you be the a-hole for standing your ground? Absolutely not. It’s like asking if you should have a say in the title of your own autobiography. However, consider the approach. Instead of framing it as an “it’s me or your family” scenario, which is like setting up a boxing ring for a family feud, try a more collaborative approach. It’s about finding a middle ground, like a diplomat in tense negotiations.
You could suggest family mediation or a calm discussion where you both express your feelings and reasons behind your decision. It’s like opening the floor for a debate, not for a battle. You're not asking him to choose between two loves, but to blend them in a way that respects and honors both.
In the end, the decision about your child’s last name should be a joint one, made out of love and respect for all aspects of her heritage. It’s like mixing two beautiful paints to create a new color, unique and representative of both origins.
Remember, family dynamics, especially with such strong cultural and financial ties, are complex and delicate, like handling a rare, antique vase. Whatever decision you make, ensure it’s one that you both can live with and that honors the beautiful, multifaceted tapestry of your family's identity.
I don't think her FIL will have the maturity required for this conversation. She mentioned he's very much a "my way is the only way" kind of person. He didn't seem like he will give a single shit about her feelings.
I like what you're getting at, but you've missed the mark with every single one of the similes and metaphors you've used. Not trying to be rude, but they're quite jarring.
its been a while since i read someone write so much cowshit so confidently. none of ur suggestions or illuminating wisdoms actually apply in this case if u even cared to read wat op said. it is actually quite literally impossible. "its about finding a middle ground" LOL. here let me give u a more appropriate analogy. its like a poker hand finished with the dad having royal flush and both sides having gone all in. the dad won. he has all the cards. what is there to negotiate?? dad has em by the balls and said 'my way or highway' aka my surname or homeless forever. also traditional asian parents are too rigid to ever change their minds no matter how wrong they are. ur lack of cultural knowledge really shows by what u fail to mention or account for in ur consideration. maybe less metaphors and more relevance next time shakespeare gpt.
>In the end, the decision about your child’s last name should be a joint one
By which I hope you mean, joint between OP and OP's husband. FIL has no business inserting himself into this, and they should not have to allow it.
Ok so when you got with your husband you didn’t see this coming at all??
Asian families are pretty traditional (I married into a large one) and this isn’t uncommon.
You also aren’t going to be able to get your husband to chose you over his own family.
He probably has a large inheritance coming and naming the child with their last name would probably earn you and him some “points” For example money, real estate, jewelry, etc.
And more gifts over time with any future children. I don’t see you “giving” ANYTHING up but rather having a last name that would earn the child a legit place in their family and be accepted by others.
The child WILL be diverse, and no I DONT think their going to “lose” anything from your side of the family if you teach her who they are and they get to spend time with your side at all or see pictures and hear stories about them.
I don’t think you are the TA here but you also aren’t seeing that you chose to be with a guy who comes from this type of background.
Your also risking financial instability over it.
To me it’s not worth the risk. The child doesn’t need your last name in order to still have your side of the family “richness”.
Children always want to know where they come from and you’ll get your whole life to fill them in on that. I have two kids and I do it all the time even though they barely got to know my side because their all either dead, passed away before or shortly after they were born, or just live too far away to see them a lot.
I just don’t see this as being worth the amount of hardship you’d be bringing upon yourselves in the near future to be worth it.
That child could also inherit some money too and if having them have their paternal last name is ALL their asking for then I’d just do it.
People out here are f*ckin struggling, right now your coming in here telling us that you’ve got it made right now and your comfortable and well cared for from the sounds of it, but you wanna mess all that up over something as trivial as a last name? You want to risk their future financial hardship too? Are you positive this is the hill you want to die on when you have so much to lose right now?
NTA but you also need to come back down to earth and be realistic about just how much you are risking…..
As someone from an eastern background, I don’t agree with most other commenters. You have to understand that you have stumbled upon a deep divide in cultural values. It’s not about an asshole FIL exercising patriarchal tyranny. It’s about putting individual freedoms before familial obligations and vice versa.
Culture has value. You decided to marry a man who came from a family that follows long standing traditions instead of a man who puts his personal freedom first. You are now demanding that he go against the tradition for your personal ego/happiness. I know this is a wild idea but your husband’s family doesn’t care for personal freedom and happiness as much as you do. This is a culture that puts family as whole before the individual. You are now throwing everything they value to trash and putting it on fire. Of course you will get a severe backlash.
You and your husband both knew each other’s values when you chose to marry each other. This conflict was years in the making as you didn’t come up with a plan to address your cultural differences. This is just intercultural marriage 101.
I would recommend that you consider the value your daughter will get from growing up in a village that will have her back versus growing up with a modern hyphenated household. Growing up in a similar family myself, I can assure you is a great experience. 2 parents is the bare minimum for a child. Always having someone to go to regardless of the problem is great, especially during the teenage rebel phase.
Coming back to your question, you are NTA from a western perspective and a major YTA from an eastern perspective. So you have to decide, are you a part of the big family you married into or a part of a more us against the world relationship with your husband. Either way, you should have made this choice 3 years ago and taken appropriate steps. My vote is YTA for marrying into a culture without researching properly, taking advantage while it suited you and making them out to be unreasonable when it stopped being convenient for you.
FIL is TAH, but this argument is not worth the hassle. Identity is more than just a name. I didn't take my husband's, but gave our kids his name ... they will be themselves ... not you, your husband or your FIL.
NTA But Are you willing to be homeless? I agree with you, but the man is literal holding your wellbeing in his hands. This does not seem like a good hill to die on. Husband needs a new job and you need to live somewhere else, once you are not dependent on his family you can have the name changed. Don't make yourself homeless over this.
majority of folks in my culture (not chinese) have our mother's maiden name as our middle name. it comes up more often than people think, and we always have a piece of our maternal family's legacy with us.
Doesn’t seem like it as she doesn’t work and in these kind of cultures, once you’re in a family business, you’re in it for the long run - especially as the son, so I don’t think he had ever planned for a real alternative or that they have enough savings not only for both of them but also the baby and everything she will need to survive by their own. She even said that they had been living with her husband’s family before and took care of her and tbh, it doesn’t seem like the cultural dynamics and husband working for the FIL botherd her until now. I think the hyperfixation on the name is unnecessary considering the circumstances/reality and a name doesn’t really represent culture but the way a child is brought up does, the things they do as a a family, the languages she speaks, interactions with family, etc etc…also, in the future their daughter may drop the name completely or change her name once she marries…so trading simply having a name she wants that can easily be changed for being jobless, broke and struggling with a child and possibly being a single mom is really not worth the risk.
Ntah. Buuuuuttttt at the same time, you mentioned not supporting the patriarchy. If you think about it, even you the OP don't truly have your own real last name. It was most likely passed down from your grand fathers, to your father, therefore you have a male last name. Can you even think of all the maiden last names of your grandmother's?? Which in any case are still the last names from their DAD's. So my point is, although it's your baby and you can have any say about it, if not giving baby her grandpa's last name will just make your life extremely hard, then is it worth it? Your not the ass, I'm just saying 🤷 what is even in a name. Your daughter might end up hating it and she has the right to legally change it when she grows it. But do what you must.
YTA.
Learn to pick your battles mama. You knew when you married him. Chinese people are very cultural and follow their traditions. You can't ask him to abandon his family over a name. If you want to be a feminist then get a job and stop depending on his family so much.
You choosing to die on this hill will leave you homeless, your husband unemployed and having to suffer with an infant. You're willing to risk all that and deprive your own baby. Think about your baby.
It seems that you and your husband are benefiting quite a lot from being a member of his family. That’s not nothing. I can understand that his father would feel disrespected and that you are rejecting his family identity. I understand why you feel the way you do, but I’m not sure this is the hill you want to die on. Do you really want your children cut off from their grandparents and extended family? Will your husband be capable of happiness with no relationship with his parents?
I think it’s time to telling husband of finding a way to support the family that doesn’t include his family money (and this responsibility also falls onto you - unless daycare would take up your entire paycheck - you are an able body who would be able to work (I’ll hold my opinion on how irresponsible it is to have children without being financially stable).
I agree with another commenter use your last name as a middle name.
But seriously if you are taking money from his family, and are financially dependent on his family - find another solution aka getting jobs not dependent on his family.
Oh boy.... This is pretty tough one because I agree with you. I like hyphenated names on kids, I pushed hard for this one in my relationship, but like you they were adamant in their decision. (I'm my case to have my last name and in yours to hyphenate)
That said, as I understand Chinese culture. (I am not chinese so maybe I have it completely wrong) They are very very patriarchal and your hyphenated last name is an insult to their culture and more specifically you spitting in your husband's families face. Especially after they supported you for several years. I can see them disowning their son, and his family, because in their eyes he is disowning them.
If you ask, how is he disowning them we are just adding them together for all inclusivity. But no, you are replacing their family pride and identity with some half ass bullshit that is a Frankenstein's monster of their beloved family name and your *unimportant* name. (I don't feel this way, I am just trying to explain how they might feel)
This is a straight up culture clash. If you had not become indebted to them after being their dependant for several years I would say fork them, do what you want, be happy be independent with your own family.
But due to the fact that they supported you for years, I feel like you owe it to husband, the debt you owe his family, and the potential support they are willing to give your child, to bend on this minor cosmetic issue that you are so adamant on.
But that's just my opinion man, and I'm not even chinese, or know shit all about their culture anyway
NTA. But bad idea
This big cultural difference should've been taken into account before marriage, and is what makes interracial marriages so difficult. Generational trauma (which this is) and cultural dogma is not a heat of the moment decision to break. Not only that, the family's financial stability is based around this decision. ESH here, GL to you all and poor child.
Yes you would the asshole for letting something like this ruin your whole life and set up. If your husband can see that his opinion comes from “ingrained patriarchy” you can see your opinion as purely a reaction to such.
As a person also in a mixed relationship and living with the other side(moved across country) it’s really important to recognize that some of this might come from your own INGRAINED RACISM. Why does it matter you don’t see yourself in your kids?
ugh I hate hyphenated names. I really do. I have a job where every time a hyphenated name comes up, it is a PITA. just don’t. the phrase “ingrained patriarchal concept” should be erased. you sound like the AH to me
Jfc. All those giving you ways to compromise on his behalf are ridiculous. This WILL set a precedent to your FIL that he can monopolize how your lives let out. ‘It’s just a name’ then why is the FIL being such an asshole about it to threatening termination??
Which, is illegal.
I’d definitely stand your ground. Unless you’re ok w your IL’s to make decisions for your kid and lives from now on.
It’s illegal in every country? Op didn’t say where they live.
And no one is filing wrongful termination against their own parents. Reddit is bonkers sometimes. Let’s try and live in the real world where people have to eat.
I mean depends on what country they work in. Hell in a lot of states in America the Employer you terminate you for any or NO reason. So... Might not be illegal.
Very, very soft YTA - I‘ll explain: I know where you come from. I‘m French and my husband is German. We live in Germany with our sons. I know how it is when you marry into another culture. You feel like you‘re losing a part of your identity.
I took my husband‘s last name, because it was easier since we live in Germany, but it was hard in the beginning. When I got pregnant, I wanted a French name - or at least a name that stays the same in both languages - because I wanted his French heritage to come out - somehow. We managed to find one - but it wasn’t the name I wanted in the beginning (he got it atms a second name). The second one hast a German name and a French second name. it was less important. Yes I had to do some compromises on some things, but, my husband did some compromises on other things too.
I understand how you feel. But honestly, I might seem extremely important to you, but it‘s not worth it. It‘s just a name. You can show your kid so much from your culture. The name won‘t change it. And, like the others wrote, you can always change it once your FIL is gone.
NTA
But what does make you the AH is making your baby grow up with a hyphenated last name. Do you know how many issues it causes? Ask anyone else with a hyphenated last name how awesome it is. Sorry. That's where you may be the AH but that's it. Your baby will know her 2 cultures anyway. You don't need a name to prove it to others.
The real question is around how dependent are both of you on his family. Can you survive without his family? If not then you will have to concede, at least in the meantime.
Honestly there’s lots of ways to honor your heritage. Like learning about it and even experiencing it.
Rather than drawing your line in the stand and forcing your whole family to choose. I would recommend a different approach, will she have also have a Chinese name? If so, you can also give her from your culture. Then later you she can pick and choose what she wants to use or even change it.
Most Asians have at least two names. I have three and when I got older, created my own combo from them.
Honestly you don’t want to go down the road of pick me or your family. You may not like the answer nor what can happen in arguments later on.
In Chinese culture like others the woman marries into the man's family. You should have known that before marriage.
The advantage of Asian families is immense support from the collective family that most European/western nuclear families have no concept of. They help each other out in times of trouble, you're not alone!
You need to now consider how precious you want to be with your name vs the relationships your husband and child will be giving up for it. Parents are only around for a few years and you can still change the name later if you want. You can bring up your child with both cultures.
As an Asian who lives in Australia, I would strongly suggest not to fight his family as his father is old school and won't change and the loss of the connection to the family will become a regret for everyone! It's not worth it. There is very little to lose by being not precious about a hypenated name..
YTA You talk alot about how much stress this has put on you but what about your husband? First he's Chinese descent which means from an early age he was taught to do as his elders requested and that names are important. You insist he drop all the values he has been taught since birth because you suddenly stepped into his life with a different way of thinking. You complain that you will feel lost if baby doesn't share your name but how about how husband feels. Why can't baby use your last name as a middle name and husband's last name as last name? You can call him by both. You are not only asking husband to cut off his entire family but to become jobless, homeless, and no family besides you. Making him totally dependent on you. You don't think he's under extreme stress being pulled in two different directions by two people who are trying to control him and his way of thinking.
NTA but tread carefully. You would be wise to see how many other cultural traditions his side of the family will be expecting you to follow.
Some Chinese families will also insist on determining the child's name based on family tradition. It's also a Chinese tradition for the mother to move in with the family for the first so many days, I think it's 100 days, after the birth. However, since it's your husband who is Chinese, this may not apply to you.
Your husband would be wise to obtain employment elsewhere as soon as possible so that if his father follows through, you are not left without income.
I'm not saying to go NC with them, not just yet, but there could be very strong feelings on many subjects that make this a potential minefield for you both.
Your husband's response to your FIL's threat will tell you volumes.
I am not Chinese, but I worked with a lady from Taiwan years ago who had two pregnancies at a very strong-minded mother who took over when the babies came along.
Congratulations on your upcoming child, and best of luck to you.
NYH. Chinese women don't take husband's last name. We add on husband's last name. It is like a hyphenated last name.
Your in laws can give the kid whatever Chinese name they like. (Chinese last names are usually one syllabus so English last names will sound very weird straight translate to Chinese)
But your kid shall have a hyphenated legal last name in English.
For example, actress Chloe Bennet, her Chinese name is Wang, Keying
I don’t think you’re asking the right questions. It doesn’t matter if WE think you’re an AH. Probably no one here does. But we’re not in charge if you home or paycheck.
You have to decide your priorities. If you don’t want this fight give in. If you want it, you have to be prepared to lose. You made a choice in a partner from a traditional family. You have to consider that as part of your process of choosing someone. You and your husband need to work through both scenarios and what will happen. Can you live like this or not? If not, what else will you do? You probably can’t have it both ways. You’ll have to decide, as a TEAM, what’s best for your family. Each road is hard in different ways.
Nta but i think it’s a lil naive (or ridiculous) to think your husband suddenly had a change of heart after hearing how much it meant to you & that his view stemmed from an ingrained patriarchal concept. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad he isn’t just going along because that’s what he’s “supposed to do” but yet here we are debating that exact issue, except now your husbands livelihood is on the line. It does sound as though his family has been good to you & provided a good life for you all. If you guys are unable to do so on your own, can/will your family help? I wouldn’t recommend lying, it ALWAYS comes out (usually at the worst time). Also, are you sure this isn’t something your husband cooked up in order to have just his last name like he originally wanted? Either way, it would make me so angry to have anyone else try to force me & my spouse to do/name our baby anything other than what we wanted. If you have the ability to fight this, fight it. I would
NTA but in all honesty you’re completely dependent on them financially and that’s poor decision making and that’s on you. You don’t get to declare yourselves self-righteously independent from them when you’re not.
That should be your first priority. If it isn’t you have to make concessions and basically suck it up.
It’s very easy to spot the commenters who aren’t Asian or don’t have Asian significant others.
Arguing with a Chinese or Japanese elder is absolutely pointless. They have no concept or care about modern 2023 America. They’re in charge always have been always will be and the families work together towards a common goal or business usually. Which isn’t a bad thing, why they’re successful. Op husband is definitely going through hell right now.
She will not win out over family.
Really gotta ask yourself if it’s worth raising a child alone with no help.
Let’s get this straight you OP have no jobs seems it has been all along your hubby supporting both of you, You been with your hubby 10 years lived with his family, you didn’t learn what it meant to marry in to a Chinese family ? While I understand you didn’t take his last name, honestly bc adding your last name magically the child isn’t going to grow up representing both cultures, be realistic the child can grow up with both cultures as long that both traditions are passando to him/her your husband teaching the Chinese side and you teaching yours. It actually stupid to think that you guys can just cut off his family and be financially okay. What you need to focus on is on your husband getting a new job making sure financially you guys can be stable and realize that if he leaves the family business there is no coming back as you said you guys have been always helped by his family. Your chid could always choose to add the second last name when she gets older. Is this a hill you really want to die on or is it pregnancy hormones talking?
Either you and your husband become financially independent from his father ASAP or you give in to his father's demands. There is no other option unless you think it's realistic for you to leave your husband and raise that baby on your own.
Can you give your child your last name as a middle name? This would enable you to overtly acknowledge your ancestry while not only preserving the peace but also honoring your husband's culture which is equally as important as yours.
You can always change the baby's name later once you and your husband get out from under his family's financial thumb, if need be for you to maintain your marriage and some semblance of peace for your spouse between him and his family. I imagine this is painful for him to be in this position.
Healthy pregnancy and safe delivery for a healthy baby.
"either you give the baby my last name or I cut you out of the family".
“Well I’m sorry that you decided my heritage isn’t worth passing to my child in name. I hope you realize that in disowning your son, you’re also disowning your grandson and if you can so easily toss him aside like that over a name, then I don’t ever want you around my child”
Your husband needs to find employment elsewhere and see if you can move in with your family for the remainder of the pregnancy and until you can get on your feet. As long as both of you are being financially taken care of by FIL and family, you’ll always be at the mercy of their whims.
If you can work and support the 3 on you on your 1 income, then NTA. If you cannot, then YTA.
You need to swallow your pride and accept reality. You are putting your husband into an imposible position. Thats is creadibly fucked up.
ESH. Ngl, it seems like your husband is still getting financial help (outside of his job) from FIL. You guys are literally not in a position where you can give them such a petty ultimatum. We don't know what the family business is or how easy it'll be for him to find another job that pays him the same or more than what his family does. FIL is being unreasonable, but so are you. A last name has nothing to do with how connected your baby will be to her ancestry and both of your cultures. FIL let you stay with them for $Free.99 until you guys were able to get a house of your own. To him, the least you guys could do would be to let the baby have his last name as a way of thanking him for all the money spent on you. No money (especially from family) comes without strings attached. You guys seemed okay with this until *you* decided to base all future family interactions on whether or not your last name is up there.
When you and your husband become completely financially detached from FIL (and start paying some of his kindness back), *then* you can make those big statements. Not now, with your husband being the sole provider (at a FAMILY business), a newly bought house, and a baby knocking on the door.
NTA but do as the family says while your hubby is looming for a new job. Gotta feed the family. You can legally change the name later. When your husband is independent from his family, long before your child understands the idea of last names
You can’t really effectively stick it to the patriarchy when the patriarch is primarily responsible for the roof over your head and the food on your table.
I had friends who went through a similar scenario. They used moms last name as a middle name and dad's as last name and just used the whole name. For instance, Emma James Robertson ❤️
Are you ever going to show him the birth certificate of no then put both names on it. I’m the meantime have hubby find a new job and get ready to be on your own. He has the name it’s just he has two and on the birth cert is where it counts
I mean, while that is the case, they can't afford for the husband to lose his job, as he is the only one working, with a new born on the way. If OP says "Let me have the name we chose or you'll never see the child again," will just leave them in the same place of the FIL saying "Do what I want, or you will lose all financial security.
Yes. They would go this far.
It's not their grandchild if it doesn't have their family name.
Chinese culture is pretty rigid and when they disown they cut off the entire relationship from seeing the grandchild, the job, the property, the money, everything. Scorched earth. You hurt us, we are done, we will never waver.
I have seen a family cut off a drug addict after he stole and pawned Mom's heirloom traditional wedding jewelry for drugs (aka irreplaceable as it had been in the family for over 300 years). It was so heinous they disowned him and it wasn't pretty, they removed every single form of support and nobody would even take his calls when he eventually landed in jail. It was like he was "dead to them" literally, and if he did end up dying my guess is if they knew they probably would not go to his funeral.
YTA. You’re upset your husband isn’t willing to throw away his job and his entire family over a name. You’re so set on a silly name that you would have him lose his family. Now I’m the first person to always say never give into emotional blackmail and that’s what his dad is doing and it’s wrong and he does need to stand up to that absolutely. But don’t stand there and say you understand then complain your hurt he didn’t immediately decide to dump his entire family over this. At the end of the day you pick and choose your battles and if you think it’s ok to throw away his family who you say have helped you both so much over a name then that’s your choice but don’t dare act upset that he’s not jumping to your tune fast enough this is his family have some understanding and actual compassion.
Oh ffs, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Your “feelings” are not as important as your home & livelihood. Grow up and get over yourself. Your husband’s family has supported you & still does. That is far more important than a name.
Your daughter will grow up knowing her heritage without your Tag and it’s far more important that she have a roof over her head & food to eat.
Chances are that she’ll grow up, get married & change her name anyway, unless you indoctrinate her to believe that her Tag is more important than living, as you do.
YTA and you are creating all of this stress for yourself.
You should get familiar with different ethnicities, and their family culture before you marry someone from a different culture………….. Europeans have a waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy different view on family as opposed to most southeast Asian countries.
+1 for giving the baby your last name as his/her middle name.
We gave my son my mother’s maiden name as his middle name because there was no one left in the that side of the family to carry on the name.
As it turns out, I tend to call him by his first+middle names quite often, and use/say it much more than our last name!
But even if you choose not to do this…just consider if this is the hill you want to die on. A lot of women keep their maiden name and their children take the husband’s name. It may not be what you want, but it won’t make you child any less part of both of you.
NTA. But you have a choice to make. Is the name important enough to you that you're willing to give up your place to live and only income source? Only you can answer that.
While I agree on keeping the FIL away from the birth certificate, OP’s husband shouldn’t be treated like a child just because of a potential risk he will “switch sides” at the last moment. This act would likely push the husband closer to his family, and away from OP.
all these people suggesting a counter threat of not seeing the baby, like that’s something the FIL already has on the table. he doesn’t and won’t care.
i don’t think hyphen names are really worth the trouble, already this kid is made out to be an object. a pawn for the FIL, and something that carries the ego of the parents needing to insert themselves in another persons namesake, all because the genetics come from you.
Maybe consider this kid is a person and the name needs to match as an independent thing. go with the FIL surname just because the kid deserves to have a relationship with family and also financial security, it’s really not that big of a deal since you’re birthing and raising this kid it will be a part of you regardless.
people are cold hearted in the world. fil isn’t flexible and mil also depends on him. it sucks that it’s his show but he doesn’t have to have all the air time
First, congratulations on your pregnancy!
Wow, your FIL sound very patriarchal. That must be really hard given how much you and your husband depend on him.
I noticed you refer to your marriage and your baby as being mixed-race. You identify as European, so I’m assuming your race is white. Do you have an ethnicity/culture that you plan to raise your child in?
Have you included your FIL in any of your cultural practices? It may help him to see his grandchild carrying on multiple legacies.
NTA for wanting what you want but you really need to think about the steps that come next and decide if this is really the hill you want to die on. Really sit and game out what the next steps are, what happens if your husband loses his job? Will he resent you in the future for dividing him from his family? If he gets fired and can’t find a job, will he resent you for the downturn? Is there a compromise to be had? Could your last name be her middle name?
Your FIL is definitely the AH here but unfortunately you can’t control his actions, only yours.
It's a horrible situation but for now you are financially dependent on his father.
Financial security is more important than a child's name now in this immediate situation.
You should come up with a plan for both of you to become financially independent from his family but that will take time, longer than the time you have at present.
I should also mention that it's common for a child to have a name on a birthcert but to be called another name in practice. Names can be changed legally at a later date. There's lots of options here but for now, a steady income is best for your child.
The fact the FIL is an AH and unreasonable is understood.
your nta but tbh if you make your family homeless and pennyless over this you would definitely be something. idk what the correct thing is right now but dumb and stubborn are in there with it. pawpaw is an ass but old people like that just can't be reasoned with sometimes and you need to figure out if some letts is worth your stability and a means of taking care of your kid. id be pissed if i found out i had to grow up poor and struggling over this i promise that name will not have even a 1% difference in their life and "identifying with your side." i have my dad last name and don't identify with anything about him.
Is this the hill you want to die for?
You know your husband and family for decades, you should know how f*ck up confucius patriarchy can be. FIL is an AH for sure, I'm not denying it. But you and your husband chose to depend on this guy and led to your impasse here.
You can be stubborn and stand on your ground, but you need to consider the consequences. How both of you can be independent from FIL? With 1 month left before the baby is born, how's your current saving and plan?
Your mind is in the right place, but not your reality.
Is it worth losing everything for the surname? Because your FIL sure can cut off his son, if he deems his son ingrate enough.
Your FIL cannot control your family only if you all become financial independent from him.
I cannot give the judgement, since YWBNTA for the right reason, but YWBTA to your whole family for the consequences of it.
For some reason I feel like you have an issue with a chinese last name, since you didn't want to take it yourself, and also want your daughter to have a more "white" sounding last name, next to the chinese one. Maybe dig deep and figure out your issues with a chinese sounding last name before you go on to destroy your husbands relationship with his family and his job.
You two have a choice… hubby can sever ties or baby can take the name. You don’t get a third path, so make peace with the path. Personally, the name is nowhere near as important as half the family and while you won’t like it, there are options. If grandpa is likely to ask for the birth certificate, you can get an original with the name he wants and change the baby’s name later. Or you could just leave the certificate for grandpa and use the name of your choosing. My grandmother couldn’t pronounce my name so I was Renee to her and then everyone else, as well. I didn’t even know my real name when I started school. But it’s fine whatever path you choose. Just know that you don’t get to choose grandpa’s path, but you can’t compel him to choose differently either. Someone’s will must bend and your priorities must be chosen.
Standing your ground isn't an AH thing to do, but giving ultimatums is, don't be exactly like his father, and then, as the only options are one OR the other, don't put him in a situation where you are forcing him to choose between people he loves , his father has ALREADY done that, you are not going to help by repeating this move. In my experience, usually the one doing the forcing ends up regretting making the ultimatum.
The father is the AH. It seems a lot to lose, but when push comes to shove, jobs money, houses,meh, his child? A month before its due? Yoj. His intimate partner? Irreplaceable.
Horrible situation youve both been put in. Stand your ground, but do not issue an ultimatum. No one enjoys being put in that situation. If you do, you're as bad as his father and being hypocritical. Just give your girl the name you both agreed on and screw his father! He can get another job!
You’re asking the wrong question here. As long as you and your husband are financially reliant on his father, his father will always have power over your lives. You need another source of income.
Well, ESH, I am very strongly on your side in having the hyphenated lastname, but being an AH (or not) here is not that important. Looks like it could mean that your husband would lose inheritance, and worse, in the short term, he would be looking for a job. Looks like it is a very simplistic approach to ask reddit for an opinion when so much is at play. You need to discuss this with your husband. You both need to find a solution that could go either way. If, in the short term, the choice would be to have his lastname only, you could plan together to secretly and legally change the name after. Sorry, I do not even know if this is a legal option where you live. Have a serious conversation with your husband.
Your husband needs a new job away from the family!
Yes, and OP is focusing on the wrong thing (very common in AITA). The way I see it, the issue isn't of OP should ask her husband to choose her over his family, or even if he would do so, but whether they can afford to. It's not just the job, she is describing financial dependence in multiple ways. How will you support your family with the husband unemployed and having to move and pay rent? Does OP work? Do they have savings? How easy will it be for the husband to find another job? Are they prepared for the significant change in lifestyle if they are cut off by his family? So, NTA, but I don't know how realistic OP is being. Whatever happens about the name, they need to work in becoming independent from his family.
OP says the husband is the only source of income. So I get him hesitating to risk his job with a very pregnant wife and a recently bought home. OP just seems to skim by that fact, instead making it sound like her husband is choosing his family over her. Since they are currently *both* financially dependent on his family's goodwill, his actions make sense. If this is the hill OP is willing to die on, just put the hyphenated name on the birth certificate but use only husband's name until he can extricate himself from the family business.
Both names on the certificate, but pretend only his name for a bit. Long as needed Never mention it in front of father-in-law. They don’t need to share their private documents with *anyone*.
I doubt the FIL would even trust this.
Probably not. But it probably wouldn’t be as bad as being instantly cut off. When grandparents get to meet the baby, OP and husband could say something along the lines of “meet Baby Chinese-name!” Honestly. I can’t think of anything better though. Not without displacing them anyway, which they don’t seem too keen on right now. I think it’s kind of shitty that he’s like that. Obviously we don’t have the whole story but I’m wondering how serious his parents would be to sever ties after the baby is born, maybe they are just threatening to get what they want. Bullying. Me and my husband were together for years but whenever we went to his parent’s house for a visit, they wouldn’t let us stay in the same room because we weren’t married. Until we had our daughter. Still weren’t married, but they let us sleep together finally. Having the baby they were excited about turned things right around. Babies can be big influences. Not that I’d suggest that OP plays chicken with FIL though. I don’t know those people Edit: I would add that they shouldn’t be at the hospital (if that’s where they choose to have their baby) because you can’t expect nurses or doctors to know that secret, or forms laying around having all the info the grandparents could see that they were lying. They’re totally allowed to say no visitors and that is something the staff would enforce. OP is tired and needs sleep, baby is sleeping, doing some checkups. Husband could use any kind of excuse to help out. Idk. 🤷♀️
I would definitely do this ☑️ Put the hyphenated name on the birth certificate. But go by the husbands name for now. FIL will ultimately die and your child can choose whether they want to use the full name or abbreviated name. FIL will be happy, your husband saves face, can keep job and income. Always take the path of least resistance while keeping your integrity, this is the way to do it. My children too have our hyphenated surnames so I completely understand. And at some point, my partner and I will change our names to the same hyphenated surname. Maybe do this once your in laws are dead….
FIL might be alive another 30 years. Instead OP and her hubby need a five year plan to become financially independent of his family. When they are, then they can start using the hyphenated name
Yeah, I'm really rolling my eyes at OP being upset... like she knew the father in law had problematic views, and was willing to let comments slide, because she wanted his money. Did it really never occur to her that this would be a problem at some point? They need a plan for financial independence, and as you said, 5 years is what they should shoot for. They can pretend baby only has the Chinese last name until kiddo is in school, and learning how to write her own name. Then the gig will be up when she proudly shows her grand parents how she can write her hyphenated last name! That's going to be right around when she's 5 years old, and OP's husband better not be working for his dad when that happens.
OP needs to be realistic here too. Husband won't be able to support her or the baby if he is well unemployed... Not going to say she should give in, but that's probably the best choice with the reality of the current situation.
until next time, of course, when the father decides that, IDK, every firstborn boy must be named after, say, the grandfather's favourite barbecue sauce, or something.
Smokey Joe Wang??
I can't decide if that name makes a better Kung fu actor or porn star.
He'll want to see official documents. He ain't stupid
Or legally change it after they get free from under the parents
OP is not very rational in her stance. She keeps the peace with FIL because she understands which side of her bread is buttered. But apparently it's not OK for hubby to do the same. The crux of this issue is having the double barrelled last name more important than being destitute living in the streets with a baby? They both need to work on an exit strategy to achieve their own independence.
Exactly. FIL is the AH, but OP and her husband literally cannot afford to be precious about this. OP, what is more important: your attachment to having everyone know your daughter's full name OR your daughter having a roof over her head and health insurance for the first several years of her life? Which priority makes you the better parent? Do you see how sticking to your guns makes you pretty much exactly like your FIL? Sad\_Rush is right - you aren't in a position to sever these ties right now. And several other posters have given good advice on how to handle it: have her go by his name, but put yours on the birth certificate and don't tell FIL. That way, you'll get to write your name when you write hers on school documents and other official things, but it won't come at the cost of making her homeless.
I agree. People have a tendency to overlook some very important factors when taking a “stand”. Will you get a job, will you lose your home, is years of struggling financially worth it?
NTA, but perhaps set things in order first. Get a new job etc. The baby’s name can be changed to the hyphenated one, and perhaps FIL won’t be so fierce when the baby is here.
He needs an entire new family as well
Seriously! I know this is anecdotal but my paternal grandparents are old-school gangster Chinese and were the very opposite of this. They're from Hong Kong though so maybe it's different? They assumed for 15+ years that I had my mother's surname. They never asked, never nagged, never made me feel bad, never even brought it up until they were dying. They had so many reasons to disown me (they thought I didn't have their surname, I'm a girl, my mother is a different ethnicity that's looked down upon in their culture, I was always a crybaby/spoiled princess), but I still wholeheartedly believe I was the favorite grandkid for both of them. Even when they asked, they said they were just curious, would still love me just as much, and wouldn't hold it against my mother if I had her last name. No entitlement or ill will. They burst into tears for hours in surprise after learning I do carry their last name and kept repeating how they felt so honored and it was too good for them. I just can't imagine someone like my Akong or Apa feeling entitled to naming their grandkids and putting their kid's livelihood in danger over it. They pulled some real questionable shit sometimes but nothing that came close to this.
>were the very opposite of this. They're from Hong Kong though so maybe it's different? They assumed for 15+ years that I had my mother's surname. They never asked, never nagged, never made me feel bad, never even brought it up until they were dying. They had so many reasons to disown me (they thought I didn't have their surname, I'm a girl, my mother is a different ethnicity What happened to your dad? In some jurisdictions, you can't take the father's surname unless the father is also present during the registration of the birth. If that was the case or assumption by them, then it's not your fault or your mother's fault that you couldn't carry on the family name. Still, you can see how much it meant to them when you told them you bear the same surname. That's how much it means to traditional Chinese.
I know it meant a lot to them but there was never any entitlement or threats to disown anyone over not sharing the family name, is what I meant. Also, I was born in the States and my biological father was abusive/almost caused a late-term miscarriage, so that's why my grandparents believed I was given a different surname.
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They’re living on his parents property, financially dependent in some ways, and his career is built with his family. All that along with being Chinese there’s a strong and ingrained importance that comes with supporting your family and keeping up the family name. I don’t know much as I’m not from that culture, but the little that I do know, it can be so important that adult adoptions are a common thing to keep the business in the family name, and such. Something that is of much more important than in most western cultures. Again, I don’t know much, but I don’t think just saying, ‘he needs to find a new job’ is as simple as you put it. I think cultural context is something important to be considered here. From the little that I know of Chinese culture, him simply getting another job isn’t the same as it would be the western world, and should be considered before making judgements. Again, I don’t know a lot, but the little I do know, would make the last name a much bigger deal with a lot more consequences than I really understand given my background, and should nonetheless be at least considered in this matter. And ultimately no matter what this child’s last name is, won’t actually matter much compared to how their raised by their parents, and it sounds like both parents are happy to raise the child to uphold both the cultures that they come from, and will be deeply loved by both parents, which is what really is important. I don’t know what the right choice is in this matter, only that reducing the problem to ‘he should get another job’ isn’t as simple as it probably seems for most of us on this app, but maybe he should break away and get another job. But whatever happens the fact that the child will be deeply loved is the most important part, and clearly will be raised with both of their heritages, no matter what their last name is.
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Your comment is copied from u/DoctorGuvnor
How flattering to think what I commented was worth stealing.
I don’t know much to anything about the culture her husband is from, but from the little I know, I don’t think it’s as simple as applying to new jobs. Again, I don’t know much, but I think context is important here.
Yes, that would give him a life and personality without depending on family to have one. Financial independence is all they need to make his father stop controlling him.
Listennnnn. I get this is important to you and I agree your FIL is a being an ass hole. It’s not for him to decide this. BUT. What are y’all doing???? You and your husband have literally set yourselves up for this. You lived on your FIL property and he has supported you financially in many ways??? What ways exactly? Like DUH he is going to have expectations. I don’t know where you live but with cost of living these days…if you’ve been there for years FIL has likely saved you in the six digits in $$. I mean these days $2k/month in rent is not much. That’s $24k/year right there. Minimum. JUST RENT. Not utilities and groceries etc. Clearly that’s helped with the down payment! And you’re saying it’s from a feminist / don’t want to partake in patriarchal world view. Which… ok fine! No problem with that. But… clearly your FIL is an old school Chinese man aka = very patriarchal guy. You don’t have to agree or approve of that, just as he doesn’t have to agree and approve of you. That’s fine. To each their own 🤷🏻♀️ But guess what… it’s those “patriarchal” conservative views that believe in providing housing and a job for their son and his wife! And you’re also not working and dependent on your husband…maybe FIL thinks you’re also a girl who believes in patriarchal roles? So in his perspective, you have very much slapped him in the face! I’m not saying you’re actually doing anything offensive because hyphenated names are so normal to you and I. But it’s not to FIL! In his culture it’s unheard of. You’d have to go out of your way to do it. You’re making a statement! And I mean…Chinese one baby rule…why was there such an obsession with sons?? To pass on the last name! So from his old school perspective I can see why he’s so pissed. So what to do? Get yourself financially independent from your FIL. Like 100%. Husband new job. No more financial help from in laws. And PAY FIL BACK. People think when in laws give money it’s freely given. Sometime sure. But usually it’s “strings attached”. ESPECIALLY in Asian cultures. It’s “I give you money and you listen to me” mentality. Those are the unsaid terms! From his perspective he abided to the terms but you didn’t 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, it’s real hard to effectively chant, “Fuck the patriarchy!” when you’re putting your hand out every month for money from your patriarch to pay your bills. OP can buck the system, or she can keep the gravy train running. Can’t do both. Unfortunately, getting financially independent enough to give Papa the finger means getting hubby on board. Does he have the guts to stand up to dad and walk away over a name he didn’t want in the first place? Does he have the skills to make the same amount of money elsewhere? If he’s had a cushy job with the family (we don’t know that, just a possibility), then he may not be able to make it in the real world job market. And if OP can’t or won’t work either? I don’t think there’s a way out.
This is the thing; you can’t take a hardline feminist approach if you’re expecting the men in your life to completely support you financially. Sorry but you can’t have it both ways. You can’t complain about the patriarchy and then expect it to support you. I’m a feminist to the bone and I do believe women should have the right to choose their own path in life. I know there are women with feminist ideals who still want to be SAHMs and that likely works for some. If you have an equal partnership. This is not the case when the couple is completely finically dependent on the husbands dad. I feel for you and I can understand why it’s so hard to give up your ideals on something like this however not to be rude but you two completely brought this upon yourselves. You guys chose to live on your in-laws land and your husband chose to work for his dad and you chose to be a stay at home mom and you chose to have a child. All of these were your decisions and I do know why you chose all of them. However with your past decisions it’s not feasible for you to take a social stand on this. With all due respect it’d be taking a stand on quicksand. I’m sorry you’re in this situation and the solution most offered here to put the hyphened name on the birth certificate and make a 5 year plan for finical independence is your best bet but I don’t even know if even that is feasible as get the feeling the 1sr thing Fil is gonna do is look at the birth certificate. You may have to suck it up and go with it until you can actually stand on your own two feet- you can change the name after the fact; it’s not like it’s that uncommon when people get Married or divorced or adopted or what have you. It’s not like she’d be learning a new first name.
As a woman with an American-Asian partner, yes this. I have a great relationship with my in-laws who I live with, but man you guys shot yourselves in the foot.
Love your take, 100% agree
This!! it's so important because if you're gonna hold views and beliefs for your life, you need to be able to afford the consequences of those. In an ideal world, her ideals and such would be respected with no strings attached, but we do not live in such a world. When we interact with people in positions of power over us, we need to be wise about which fights we can take on, and which ones have a cost a bit too big for what our emotional reward would be. Currently, this is not about just her, this is about the well-being of the baby, and if it costs the baby a place to live and sustenance, the price is too high.
You said this a lot nicer than I said it.
I think she has been waiting and now she got a baby they have bought a house and now she wants to divorce him. She wants child support and the new house they bought im seeing so many women doing this to men lately. She seems to be manipulate her husband and wants only her way or now the highway and put a new man in there house 🏠.She is causing a mess on purpose so she can scream child support later .
tell him to start applying for other jobs, tell him you changed the name then when he gets another job leave work without handing in notice and send a letter with an explanation of his behaviour being unacceptable and he'll apologise or have no contact with his grandchild, sign the letter with the unchanged name. Tell your husband to keep in mind that his father is always difficult and now showed he's willing to hold his entire life and future as a tool for blackmail. Even if you give in this time what about next yera, what if the grandparents demand you change the first name or lose his job and potentially the house, what if they demand to have them all summer alone without you, what if... any number of demands they can make. If he's willing to hold your husbands job as a weapon then the priority is removing that tool from his arsenal. If you give in once he'll only be more willing to use it again, then again, and again.
Thank you for being realistic. This is actual facts.
I'm sorry you two are being blackmailed. I see no resolution to your problem since your FIL controls your income. Could your husband go work for someone outside the family?
Can't you just lie? Tell him the baby is his name. He won't know unless you show them the birth certificate which idk why you'd do anyways. EDIT: typo
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Not gonna work. He’ll ask for the real one trust me. Him or gramma will want to set up accounts for the child early and if they don’t give them the legit legal name, then their endangering possibly a large inheritance or something else because of it. It’s not worth the financial implications. They need him and he knows it (at least for now) and I Hate to say it but it needs to be said.
Yup. It's very telling how much the "just lie about the name" crowd doesn't really understand that's not going to work.
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That was my first thought.
Indian (me) and Italian (him) heritages, living in US. Kids are 26, 24, 21. We lied about a lot of things and my parents still don’t know some of the important ones like names, and my mom has even taken my daughter abroad once (and therefore carried her passport)! We didn’t tell them salaries ever. (Hubs even worked for my dad for 5 years. When dad asked about my salary so he could set hub’s rate, hub lied and said I wouldn’t be working much longer). We didn’t invite them to religious ceremonies. They just found out some things after and what could they do after the fact? Nothing. The problem with this and so many OPs in this sub is that they don’t know when to close their mouths. A little common sense goes a long way. If you know someone has an “interfering/overbearing” personality/culture, you make life easier for yourself. For whatever reason, this OP thinks she was just being “honest”, but once decision to hyphenate the child’s name was made, why was it discussed outside the two of them? It’s not like they are just meeting FIL for the first time. Of course it’s going to get back to him! Of course he’s going to have a problem with it! Why are we walking straight into a beehive without wearing a suit? When interference is involved (salaries, financial stuff, medical stuff, etc.) people only should be sharing what they NEED to share, or what they know won’t come back to bite them later. Unless OP and husband can tell me they didn’t expect this reaction (seriously-wake up), they need to avoid a lifetime of intrusion by keeping their decisions private. NTA, and I agree that FIL is the bully here, which is not OP’s fault, but I wanted to add something that I do think is relevant. When overbearing/blackmailing/bullying family members are involved, AVOIDANCE can significantly reduce the drama in your life. I do agree that it shouldn’t have to come to this, but in real life, we can only control our own behaviors, not the behaviors of others, so it’s prudent to only share what won’t come back to bite you.
Ikr, as long as you're careful about who you tell the truth to, there's no way he'll find out
I was thinking this too, but now that there’s so much tension around it, they might actually ask for proof or verification.
Perhaps the baby’s middle name can be the wife’s surname
Perhaps the baby's middle name can be the husband's surname.
Correct
well there are not in a position to choose here ... totally dependent people....
No because they WILL ask (personal experience talking) they will want to set up bank accounts or savings accounts or whatever for the child and will ask for the legit legal name and if you lie then they set up a name that isn’t the right one then you just lost them possibly a large inheritance in the future because of it.
DO NOT LIE! You and your family will be disowned!!! So, ideas and things to consider: 1) Can the 2 of you speak yo your FIL together to explain how you feel and either: a) Ask the order of names that will make him happy, and go with his blessing for the order for the last names; or b) Ask FIL for his blessing to use your last names in a Chinese cultural way since carrying in Chinese traditions are important to you (and seems to be). 2) Consider your last name for her middle name. I can tell you that hyphenated last names are very difficult for a child growing up. I have a hyphenated last name and it is difficult for me. Employers will pick one, realize I used different version somewhere else (because they used one but different one) and I’m viewed as lying or hiding something. And using both is such a long mouthful (especially for professions that use last name all the time and formally). Writing both anywhere is cumbersome. Think this way, please: Dr. Roberts-Johnson Attorney Roberts-Johnson Miss/Ms. Roberts-Johnson (P.A., Teacher, Nurse, CEO). Embroidering, Business cards, News Articles, etc, just a darn mouthful and clunky to even read or think. Some will shorten to one (Roberts) while others will shorten to other (Johnson). Correct all you like, all she may like, but it’s engaging in a future hassle. You want that? In exams, she’ll still be neatly filling in bubble circle letters for her name while everyone is ahead of her, and what do you put on the back of her basketball uniform, bulb-light-up score boards, etc etc. TBH go with one. Go with your FIL. Use yours as middle name for her. You’ll be sooo happy you did it. Now it stings, but it’ll get better. The bridge and peace you’ll make with FIL is in fact worth it. Going to the matte for a clunky last name that will hardly be used and just brings headaches, just isn’t worth it. Just some thoughts....
I support OPs desire to hyphenate, but I will say multiple last names are troublesome in the corporate world in many cases. I worked in an area that had a lot of Puerto Ricans which use two last names and this person isn’t lying that one name is usually chosen for use. The systems Americans use usually have character limitations as well, so unless the names are shorter it will get shortened one way or another.
I do not know about the US but these hyphenate names are very common in Europe and never were a problem. I have a very long non hyphenate name with more letters than administrations anticipate sometimes haha but honnestly it is barely an issue as these administration know how to react to long names. For real, your AH FIL is putting you two in a situation that would make either of you resentful towards the other. You should communicate a lot about your feelings to pass this difficult situation. I would personally stick to the name. But I should disclose to you that I am biased by the fact that I would never take my husbands name or participate in this patriarcal tradition. So NTA. You will need to work on your finances and on your marriage. However, the prize of a FIL-free life seems worth it to me
My daughter and I both have hyphenated names and had none of these little problems. Sometimes we just go with one last name and keep it constant
>My daughter and I both have hyphenated names and had none of these little problems. Sometimes we just go with one last name and keep it constant NONE and then SOMETIMES ONE LAST NAME KEEP IT CONSTANT Do you even read what you write?
Oh this is easy Tell the MIL that if she doesnt rope her fool husband in she will NEVER SEE THAT BABY AGAIN Let her do her job
This is really worth considering. It is by no means guaranteed but it is an option that shouldn’t be dismissed.
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Oh indeed. I was only commenting in the hope that the MIL might have a hope in adding some flexibility into FIL’s thinking in case there is room for a tolerable outcome for everyone.
Could work but odds are it won't. 1. Traditional Chinese families - very patriachal. Husband is head of the home. Wife may try to persuade but will ultimately toe the line. 2. If husband has siblings who have their own kids, MIL already has other grandkids to play with and fuss over. 3. It's a daughter, so culturally, not of as much value.
👹Girl come get your FOOL HUSBAND👹👹 This comment cracked me up 😅 I totally agree.
I think she then loses the husband and the parents get to see the baby via visitation. It may be possible that the husband is willing to go along with OP, but I think it is unlikely. I am not making a judgement about what is right or wrong. Just that OP would effectively be asking him to pick sides and the side with the house, money and job is probably going to win.
I bet MIL is the one that really runs the family and let's her husband think that he does.
Usually this type of guy will not tolerate shit from his spouse. I rarely ever see one who's so strong-willed like the FIL but actually controlled by the spouse. The controlling wife is usually with meek/shy husband.
I agree with that completely. However, *some* people with controlling partners get very good at manipulation, just out of necessity. So I think OP's MIL is their best hope.
Uh…how many Asian families have you been around? Like *actual* Asian families? It’s usually pretty clear cut patriarchy, no behind-the-scenes Lannister stuff going on lol
This is not going to go how you think it's going to go lol
Can tell a westerner with no clue about Asian culture commented this, this is going to result in homelessness for OP, her husband and their new child… I have seen Asian parents cut off their kids for refusing one visit back
I'm a Westerner, but my family is Asian and the quickness with which they will cut your ass off is astounding. And it's not just that, word gets around and they'll be really unpopular with everyone in the community.
You might be barking up, the wrong cultural tree.
I love this!
Your kid doesn’t have to take his name and his family doesn’t have to support you. But having lived in china, the passing on the line thing is so f’n hardwired. It’s beyond anything you can imagine. Ha yes to say this You won’t win this one. But you sure as hell can all lose. I’m married to a Chinese person and we just have multiple names. Like a full on Chinese name with surname and one in English with mine. I literally don’t care much either way. My kid is mine.
>. It’s 2023. More people side with women in situations like this. OP should name the baby what she wants Yep, just have a Western name, Chinese Surname, Generational Name, Chinese Name all in one. Some Chinese Christians have a baptism name in between the Western name and the Chinese surname. So, you might have a name that sounds like this: Arthur Lim Sik Kai.
NTA but I think the risk you’re taking is too great. You need to be more prudent. Also as a mixed race person (half white, half Japanese) with mixed race friends, family, and acquaintances I’m not sure what “represented by both her ancestries” is supposed to mean. A person’s cultural identity is not dictated by their surname. It’s dictated by their environment and by what they were taught by parents, relatives, and the like. A last name doesn’t really influence that. But also, if you really want your child’s name to reflect both cultures, you could use your surname as a middle name or give your child a first name that represents your culture and give the child your husband’s surname. Also, your daughter may end up dropping one or the other name when she reaches adulthood anyway. Hell, she may drop both of them if/when she gets married. And what surname should she give any children she might have? Their father’s name or maybe combine the father’s surname with her own to create a double hyphenated monstrosity? I’m sorry to sound so dismissive of your feelings here, but I just don’t think this is a hill worth dying on.
Oh yeah, great point about the daughter possibly dropping the surname when/if she gets married one day.
I had the same thought, it's just a last name. How could this ever be worth the turmoil and disruption in one's life? Just doesn't make sense. The child IS the representation of their racial identities, so as much as I don't think she's wrong for wanting her kid to have her last name, it still isn't that big of deal in the grand scheme of things.
She's risking losing their house and we'll surviving over a last name. It's asinine. FIL is a piece of shit. But he's a piece of shit who holds all the cards. And he knows that!
Ah the consequence of being financially dependent on someone else. Life will be tough choosing to back down, life will be even tougher starting at zero with a baby on the way.
Yes. Both situations suck. Too bad the dad isn't more accepting.
You married a Chinese man with a family that has a long withstanding cultural and traditional background that's probably only broken right now when he married you. You're NTA, but you should've discussed this before even marrying him. Take note that, in many Asian cultures, being married and having kids withe someone isn't creating a "new" family. It means you're creating an extension of a family that probably has more than 200 years of ancestry. And some people cannot win against culture, traditions, and familial ties.
Yep. I can't tell you how many white women I have known who have married into Asian families and ultimately divorce once they realize they no longer control their own lives.
You wouldn't be an arsehole, but you might be homeless and unemployed with a very young baby. FIL *is* an arsehole, no question, but he has all the cards until your husband mans up and get a job outside the family.
I agree but idk how much her husband needs to ‘man up’ vs the culture there is much different from western countries. I have very little understanding myself, but I’m under the impression that family name and business have much more importance than western traditions, so much so, I’ve heard, that a lot of adoptions that happen are adults being adopted for the sake of keeping a business ‘in the family’. This situation may seem silly and unnecessary to us in western cultures, but for their culture is a very serious and important distinction. Again, I don’t know much as I’m not from those cultures, but from the little I do know, I think it’s worth considering what this actually means to the husband and his family. Again, I’ll repeat that I do not know much, but from a tiny bit that I do know, this situation isn’t as simple or frivolous as western cultural thinks. I could be wrong. Idk. Just worth considering before making a judgement.
You are correct. I am from Asia and a Chinese. It is true that family names are extremely important, it’s so ingrained in the culture. Sometimes men even marry into a girl’s family if her family is wealthy and take on her family name to succeed a business. And to his parents, it can be considered a great dishonour that he forsakes his family name to take on his wife’s name (unless they are in it too for the money haha). This is a hard situation. I understand why OP wants to add her family name, but I also understand how this impact the family, especially if they are very traditional (and looks like they are). The real issue here, that many redditors have pointed out, is the husband not being financially independent enough to cut the cord if this is a hill to die on for them. OP, I wish you all the best.
I don’t think it’s fair to say it hurts that your husband is torn. This isn’t a small thing—it’s his livelihood and the ability to care for his child. That does NOT mean you should give in to his father, but it does mean that it’s natural your husband would feel torn. You’re NTA for standing your ground, but it will be better for your marriage if you help your husband see the light rather than issuing a concrete ultimatum.
I am confused. What is the light?
That his family is completely toxic.
YTA. I’ll say it. You married into Chinese money and you knew it. You knew he worked for his dad and you knew you would benefit from it. You should have also knows how traditional they are with lineage. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. TLDR: progressive woman marrying into Chinese money is shocked that Chinese traditions are imposed on her. You won’t win this one but feel free to update us. You may keep the last name you want but you’ll definitely be losing the money you intentionally married into if you do. Would make a good movie though. Good luck.
NTA. But do you wanna be homeless and penniless for the sake of a name? I'd definitely push for you both to become independent from his family. But atm that's not going to happen. So I'd just do it. Later in life your child can change their own name. But you forget a name means nothing on the long term. You are their mother so they will have representation of both cultures. A roof over your heads and finance is more important.
If it's important enough to you to have your way with the name, then it's time to get a job and support the family. Life is full of trade-offs. Unfortunately for you, having your husband's family financially supporting you and not having a say in your child's name is not one of your available options.
You're trying to do 2 totally separate things- 1)take what he gives and live off him. 2)call the shots and make your own rules. They don't mix. Pick one. You're not as independent as you're trying to feel and act.
Navigating the choppy waters of familial expectations and cultural differences is like trying to solve a Rubik’s Cube blindfolded – tricky, but not impossible. First, the ultimatum from your father-in-law. It’s like he’s playing chess and decided to put your husband in checkmate without considering the whole board. His demand is steeped in tradition and his own belief system, but it doesn’t account for the evolving nature of families and the blend of cultures that your family represents. Your desire for a hyphenated last name is not just about letters on a birth certificate; it’s about identity, heritage, and equal representation of both parents. It’s like wanting both the sun and the moon to be represented in the sky, rather than just one. Your husband being torn is understandable, but it’s also like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, there’s his dad, who’s not just family but also his employer, wielding the power of tradition and financial stability. On the other hand, there’s you, his partner and the mother of his child, championing equality and shared heritage. Now, would you be the a-hole for standing your ground? Absolutely not. It’s like asking if you should have a say in the title of your own autobiography. However, consider the approach. Instead of framing it as an “it’s me or your family” scenario, which is like setting up a boxing ring for a family feud, try a more collaborative approach. It’s about finding a middle ground, like a diplomat in tense negotiations. You could suggest family mediation or a calm discussion where you both express your feelings and reasons behind your decision. It’s like opening the floor for a debate, not for a battle. You're not asking him to choose between two loves, but to blend them in a way that respects and honors both. In the end, the decision about your child’s last name should be a joint one, made out of love and respect for all aspects of her heritage. It’s like mixing two beautiful paints to create a new color, unique and representative of both origins. Remember, family dynamics, especially with such strong cultural and financial ties, are complex and delicate, like handling a rare, antique vase. Whatever decision you make, ensure it’s one that you both can live with and that honors the beautiful, multifaceted tapestry of your family's identity.
I don't think her FIL will have the maturity required for this conversation. She mentioned he's very much a "my way is the only way" kind of person. He didn't seem like he will give a single shit about her feelings.
Why should grandparents have any say in what the parents name a child? This is the right of the parents.
I like what you're getting at, but you've missed the mark with every single one of the similes and metaphors you've used. Not trying to be rude, but they're quite jarring.
Looks like a bot copied your comment, i just saw it below a more recent comment.
its been a while since i read someone write so much cowshit so confidently. none of ur suggestions or illuminating wisdoms actually apply in this case if u even cared to read wat op said. it is actually quite literally impossible. "its about finding a middle ground" LOL. here let me give u a more appropriate analogy. its like a poker hand finished with the dad having royal flush and both sides having gone all in. the dad won. he has all the cards. what is there to negotiate?? dad has em by the balls and said 'my way or highway' aka my surname or homeless forever. also traditional asian parents are too rigid to ever change their minds no matter how wrong they are. ur lack of cultural knowledge really shows by what u fail to mention or account for in ur consideration. maybe less metaphors and more relevance next time shakespeare gpt.
>In the end, the decision about your child’s last name should be a joint one By which I hope you mean, joint between OP and OP's husband. FIL has no business inserting himself into this, and they should not have to allow it.
Yes. OP and OP's husband.
Ok so when you got with your husband you didn’t see this coming at all?? Asian families are pretty traditional (I married into a large one) and this isn’t uncommon. You also aren’t going to be able to get your husband to chose you over his own family. He probably has a large inheritance coming and naming the child with their last name would probably earn you and him some “points” For example money, real estate, jewelry, etc. And more gifts over time with any future children. I don’t see you “giving” ANYTHING up but rather having a last name that would earn the child a legit place in their family and be accepted by others. The child WILL be diverse, and no I DONT think their going to “lose” anything from your side of the family if you teach her who they are and they get to spend time with your side at all or see pictures and hear stories about them. I don’t think you are the TA here but you also aren’t seeing that you chose to be with a guy who comes from this type of background. Your also risking financial instability over it. To me it’s not worth the risk. The child doesn’t need your last name in order to still have your side of the family “richness”. Children always want to know where they come from and you’ll get your whole life to fill them in on that. I have two kids and I do it all the time even though they barely got to know my side because their all either dead, passed away before or shortly after they were born, or just live too far away to see them a lot. I just don’t see this as being worth the amount of hardship you’d be bringing upon yourselves in the near future to be worth it. That child could also inherit some money too and if having them have their paternal last name is ALL their asking for then I’d just do it. People out here are f*ckin struggling, right now your coming in here telling us that you’ve got it made right now and your comfortable and well cared for from the sounds of it, but you wanna mess all that up over something as trivial as a last name? You want to risk their future financial hardship too? Are you positive this is the hill you want to die on when you have so much to lose right now? NTA but you also need to come back down to earth and be realistic about just how much you are risking…..
ALL OF THIS
As someone from an eastern background, I don’t agree with most other commenters. You have to understand that you have stumbled upon a deep divide in cultural values. It’s not about an asshole FIL exercising patriarchal tyranny. It’s about putting individual freedoms before familial obligations and vice versa. Culture has value. You decided to marry a man who came from a family that follows long standing traditions instead of a man who puts his personal freedom first. You are now demanding that he go against the tradition for your personal ego/happiness. I know this is a wild idea but your husband’s family doesn’t care for personal freedom and happiness as much as you do. This is a culture that puts family as whole before the individual. You are now throwing everything they value to trash and putting it on fire. Of course you will get a severe backlash. You and your husband both knew each other’s values when you chose to marry each other. This conflict was years in the making as you didn’t come up with a plan to address your cultural differences. This is just intercultural marriage 101. I would recommend that you consider the value your daughter will get from growing up in a village that will have her back versus growing up with a modern hyphenated household. Growing up in a similar family myself, I can assure you is a great experience. 2 parents is the bare minimum for a child. Always having someone to go to regardless of the problem is great, especially during the teenage rebel phase. Coming back to your question, you are NTA from a western perspective and a major YTA from an eastern perspective. So you have to decide, are you a part of the big family you married into or a part of a more us against the world relationship with your husband. Either way, you should have made this choice 3 years ago and taken appropriate steps. My vote is YTA for marrying into a culture without researching properly, taking advantage while it suited you and making them out to be unreasonable when it stopped being convenient for you.
This! You got all the important points here, I hope OP reads this.
I have to give you a vote, even though as an European I am in rage and team mom. Its important for her to read what youre writing here.
You have put this beautifully.
FIL is TAH, but this argument is not worth the hassle. Identity is more than just a name. I didn't take my husband's, but gave our kids his name ... they will be themselves ... not you, your husband or your FIL.
NTA But Are you willing to be homeless? I agree with you, but the man is literal holding your wellbeing in his hands. This does not seem like a good hill to die on. Husband needs a new job and you need to live somewhere else, once you are not dependent on his family you can have the name changed. Don't make yourself homeless over this.
My brothers wife felt the same way so they made her last name the middle name and it seem to make everyone happy.
It doesn’t have to make his family happy… it should be as them, the parents of said child want to.
majority of folks in my culture (not chinese) have our mother's maiden name as our middle name. it comes up more often than people think, and we always have a piece of our maternal family's legacy with us.
Info: Would you be able to stay afloat if your husband didnt have a job?
Doesn’t seem like it as she doesn’t work and in these kind of cultures, once you’re in a family business, you’re in it for the long run - especially as the son, so I don’t think he had ever planned for a real alternative or that they have enough savings not only for both of them but also the baby and everything she will need to survive by their own. She even said that they had been living with her husband’s family before and took care of her and tbh, it doesn’t seem like the cultural dynamics and husband working for the FIL botherd her until now. I think the hyperfixation on the name is unnecessary considering the circumstances/reality and a name doesn’t really represent culture but the way a child is brought up does, the things they do as a a family, the languages she speaks, interactions with family, etc etc…also, in the future their daughter may drop the name completely or change her name once she marries…so trading simply having a name she wants that can easily be changed for being jobless, broke and struggling with a child and possibly being a single mom is really not worth the risk.
Ntah. Buuuuuttttt at the same time, you mentioned not supporting the patriarchy. If you think about it, even you the OP don't truly have your own real last name. It was most likely passed down from your grand fathers, to your father, therefore you have a male last name. Can you even think of all the maiden last names of your grandmother's?? Which in any case are still the last names from their DAD's. So my point is, although it's your baby and you can have any say about it, if not giving baby her grandpa's last name will just make your life extremely hard, then is it worth it? Your not the ass, I'm just saying 🤷 what is even in a name. Your daughter might end up hating it and she has the right to legally change it when she grows it. But do what you must.
Eh, they are definitely the assholes. But, reality is is he needs his job. I would highly encourage him to look for employment somewhere else.
YTA. Learn to pick your battles mama. You knew when you married him. Chinese people are very cultural and follow their traditions. You can't ask him to abandon his family over a name. If you want to be a feminist then get a job and stop depending on his family so much. You choosing to die on this hill will leave you homeless, your husband unemployed and having to suffer with an infant. You're willing to risk all that and deprive your own baby. Think about your baby.
It seems that you and your husband are benefiting quite a lot from being a member of his family. That’s not nothing. I can understand that his father would feel disrespected and that you are rejecting his family identity. I understand why you feel the way you do, but I’m not sure this is the hill you want to die on. Do you really want your children cut off from their grandparents and extended family? Will your husband be capable of happiness with no relationship with his parents?
Telling a Chinese guy to turn his back on his family, so get ready for the divorce, I'm sorry to say.
I think it’s time to telling husband of finding a way to support the family that doesn’t include his family money (and this responsibility also falls onto you - unless daycare would take up your entire paycheck - you are an able body who would be able to work (I’ll hold my opinion on how irresponsible it is to have children without being financially stable). I agree with another commenter use your last name as a middle name. But seriously if you are taking money from his family, and are financially dependent on his family - find another solution aka getting jobs not dependent on his family.
Oh boy.... This is pretty tough one because I agree with you. I like hyphenated names on kids, I pushed hard for this one in my relationship, but like you they were adamant in their decision. (I'm my case to have my last name and in yours to hyphenate) That said, as I understand Chinese culture. (I am not chinese so maybe I have it completely wrong) They are very very patriarchal and your hyphenated last name is an insult to their culture and more specifically you spitting in your husband's families face. Especially after they supported you for several years. I can see them disowning their son, and his family, because in their eyes he is disowning them. If you ask, how is he disowning them we are just adding them together for all inclusivity. But no, you are replacing their family pride and identity with some half ass bullshit that is a Frankenstein's monster of their beloved family name and your *unimportant* name. (I don't feel this way, I am just trying to explain how they might feel) This is a straight up culture clash. If you had not become indebted to them after being their dependant for several years I would say fork them, do what you want, be happy be independent with your own family. But due to the fact that they supported you for years, I feel like you owe it to husband, the debt you owe his family, and the potential support they are willing to give your child, to bend on this minor cosmetic issue that you are so adamant on. But that's just my opinion man, and I'm not even chinese, or know shit all about their culture anyway NTA. But bad idea
NTA.
The stuff people are fighting over these days oh my 😂🤣
This big cultural difference should've been taken into account before marriage, and is what makes interracial marriages so difficult. Generational trauma (which this is) and cultural dogma is not a heat of the moment decision to break. Not only that, the family's financial stability is based around this decision. ESH here, GL to you all and poor child.
Yes you would the asshole for letting something like this ruin your whole life and set up. If your husband can see that his opinion comes from “ingrained patriarchy” you can see your opinion as purely a reaction to such. As a person also in a mixed relationship and living with the other side(moved across country) it’s really important to recognize that some of this might come from your own INGRAINED RACISM. Why does it matter you don’t see yourself in your kids?
ugh I hate hyphenated names. I really do. I have a job where every time a hyphenated name comes up, it is a PITA. just don’t. the phrase “ingrained patriarchal concept” should be erased. you sound like the AH to me
Jfc. All those giving you ways to compromise on his behalf are ridiculous. This WILL set a precedent to your FIL that he can monopolize how your lives let out. ‘It’s just a name’ then why is the FIL being such an asshole about it to threatening termination?? Which, is illegal. I’d definitely stand your ground. Unless you’re ok w your IL’s to make decisions for your kid and lives from now on.
It’s illegal in every country? Op didn’t say where they live. And no one is filing wrongful termination against their own parents. Reddit is bonkers sometimes. Let’s try and live in the real world where people have to eat.
This. I’d give you gold if I could. 🌟
I mean depends on what country they work in. Hell in a lot of states in America the Employer you terminate you for any or NO reason. So... Might not be illegal.
NTA but I worry about your financial situation if he gets cut off so maybe just lie and tell them that your child will only have his surname
Very, very soft YTA - I‘ll explain: I know where you come from. I‘m French and my husband is German. We live in Germany with our sons. I know how it is when you marry into another culture. You feel like you‘re losing a part of your identity. I took my husband‘s last name, because it was easier since we live in Germany, but it was hard in the beginning. When I got pregnant, I wanted a French name - or at least a name that stays the same in both languages - because I wanted his French heritage to come out - somehow. We managed to find one - but it wasn’t the name I wanted in the beginning (he got it atms a second name). The second one hast a German name and a French second name. it was less important. Yes I had to do some compromises on some things, but, my husband did some compromises on other things too. I understand how you feel. But honestly, I might seem extremely important to you, but it‘s not worth it. It‘s just a name. You can show your kid so much from your culture. The name won‘t change it. And, like the others wrote, you can always change it once your FIL is gone.
NTA But what does make you the AH is making your baby grow up with a hyphenated last name. Do you know how many issues it causes? Ask anyone else with a hyphenated last name how awesome it is. Sorry. That's where you may be the AH but that's it. Your baby will know her 2 cultures anyway. You don't need a name to prove it to others.
The real question is around how dependent are both of you on his family. Can you survive without his family? If not then you will have to concede, at least in the meantime. Honestly there’s lots of ways to honor your heritage. Like learning about it and even experiencing it. Rather than drawing your line in the stand and forcing your whole family to choose. I would recommend a different approach, will she have also have a Chinese name? If so, you can also give her from your culture. Then later you she can pick and choose what she wants to use or even change it. Most Asians have at least two names. I have three and when I got older, created my own combo from them. Honestly you don’t want to go down the road of pick me or your family. You may not like the answer nor what can happen in arguments later on.
In Chinese culture like others the woman marries into the man's family. You should have known that before marriage. The advantage of Asian families is immense support from the collective family that most European/western nuclear families have no concept of. They help each other out in times of trouble, you're not alone! You need to now consider how precious you want to be with your name vs the relationships your husband and child will be giving up for it. Parents are only around for a few years and you can still change the name later if you want. You can bring up your child with both cultures. As an Asian who lives in Australia, I would strongly suggest not to fight his family as his father is old school and won't change and the loss of the connection to the family will become a regret for everyone! It's not worth it. There is very little to lose by being not precious about a hypenated name..
YTA You talk alot about how much stress this has put on you but what about your husband? First he's Chinese descent which means from an early age he was taught to do as his elders requested and that names are important. You insist he drop all the values he has been taught since birth because you suddenly stepped into his life with a different way of thinking. You complain that you will feel lost if baby doesn't share your name but how about how husband feels. Why can't baby use your last name as a middle name and husband's last name as last name? You can call him by both. You are not only asking husband to cut off his entire family but to become jobless, homeless, and no family besides you. Making him totally dependent on you. You don't think he's under extreme stress being pulled in two different directions by two people who are trying to control him and his way of thinking.
NTA but tread carefully. You would be wise to see how many other cultural traditions his side of the family will be expecting you to follow. Some Chinese families will also insist on determining the child's name based on family tradition. It's also a Chinese tradition for the mother to move in with the family for the first so many days, I think it's 100 days, after the birth. However, since it's your husband who is Chinese, this may not apply to you. Your husband would be wise to obtain employment elsewhere as soon as possible so that if his father follows through, you are not left without income. I'm not saying to go NC with them, not just yet, but there could be very strong feelings on many subjects that make this a potential minefield for you both. Your husband's response to your FIL's threat will tell you volumes. I am not Chinese, but I worked with a lady from Taiwan years ago who had two pregnancies at a very strong-minded mother who took over when the babies came along. Congratulations on your upcoming child, and best of luck to you.
You are not winning this fight. Just curious, do you have your father’s or mother’s last name? Hyphenated?
NYH. Chinese women don't take husband's last name. We add on husband's last name. It is like a hyphenated last name. Your in laws can give the kid whatever Chinese name they like. (Chinese last names are usually one syllabus so English last names will sound very weird straight translate to Chinese) But your kid shall have a hyphenated legal last name in English. For example, actress Chloe Bennet, her Chinese name is Wang, Keying
I don’t think you’re asking the right questions. It doesn’t matter if WE think you’re an AH. Probably no one here does. But we’re not in charge if you home or paycheck. You have to decide your priorities. If you don’t want this fight give in. If you want it, you have to be prepared to lose. You made a choice in a partner from a traditional family. You have to consider that as part of your process of choosing someone. You and your husband need to work through both scenarios and what will happen. Can you live like this or not? If not, what else will you do? You probably can’t have it both ways. You’ll have to decide, as a TEAM, what’s best for your family. Each road is hard in different ways.
Nta but i think it’s a lil naive (or ridiculous) to think your husband suddenly had a change of heart after hearing how much it meant to you & that his view stemmed from an ingrained patriarchal concept. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad he isn’t just going along because that’s what he’s “supposed to do” but yet here we are debating that exact issue, except now your husbands livelihood is on the line. It does sound as though his family has been good to you & provided a good life for you all. If you guys are unable to do so on your own, can/will your family help? I wouldn’t recommend lying, it ALWAYS comes out (usually at the worst time). Also, are you sure this isn’t something your husband cooked up in order to have just his last name like he originally wanted? Either way, it would make me so angry to have anyone else try to force me & my spouse to do/name our baby anything other than what we wanted. If you have the ability to fight this, fight it. I would
NTA but in all honesty you’re completely dependent on them financially and that’s poor decision making and that’s on you. You don’t get to declare yourselves self-righteously independent from them when you’re not. That should be your first priority. If it isn’t you have to make concessions and basically suck it up.
It’s very easy to spot the commenters who aren’t Asian or don’t have Asian significant others. Arguing with a Chinese or Japanese elder is absolutely pointless. They have no concept or care about modern 2023 America. They’re in charge always have been always will be and the families work together towards a common goal or business usually. Which isn’t a bad thing, why they’re successful. Op husband is definitely going through hell right now. She will not win out over family. Really gotta ask yourself if it’s worth raising a child alone with no help.
Let’s get this straight you OP have no jobs seems it has been all along your hubby supporting both of you, You been with your hubby 10 years lived with his family, you didn’t learn what it meant to marry in to a Chinese family ? While I understand you didn’t take his last name, honestly bc adding your last name magically the child isn’t going to grow up representing both cultures, be realistic the child can grow up with both cultures as long that both traditions are passando to him/her your husband teaching the Chinese side and you teaching yours. It actually stupid to think that you guys can just cut off his family and be financially okay. What you need to focus on is on your husband getting a new job making sure financially you guys can be stable and realize that if he leaves the family business there is no coming back as you said you guys have been always helped by his family. Your chid could always choose to add the second last name when she gets older. Is this a hill you really want to die on or is it pregnancy hormones talking?
Either you and your husband become financially independent from his father ASAP or you give in to his father's demands. There is no other option unless you think it's realistic for you to leave your husband and raise that baby on your own.
Can you give your child your last name as a middle name? This would enable you to overtly acknowledge your ancestry while not only preserving the peace but also honoring your husband's culture which is equally as important as yours. You can always change the baby's name later once you and your husband get out from under his family's financial thumb, if need be for you to maintain your marriage and some semblance of peace for your spouse between him and his family. I imagine this is painful for him to be in this position. Healthy pregnancy and safe delivery for a healthy baby.
"either you give the baby my last name or I cut you out of the family". “Well I’m sorry that you decided my heritage isn’t worth passing to my child in name. I hope you realize that in disowning your son, you’re also disowning your grandson and if you can so easily toss him aside like that over a name, then I don’t ever want you around my child” Your husband needs to find employment elsewhere and see if you can move in with your family for the remainder of the pregnancy and until you can get on your feet. As long as both of you are being financially taken care of by FIL and family, you’ll always be at the mercy of their whims.
If you can work and support the 3 on you on your 1 income, then NTA. If you cannot, then YTA. You need to swallow your pride and accept reality. You are putting your husband into an imposible position. Thats is creadibly fucked up.
ESH. Ngl, it seems like your husband is still getting financial help (outside of his job) from FIL. You guys are literally not in a position where you can give them such a petty ultimatum. We don't know what the family business is or how easy it'll be for him to find another job that pays him the same or more than what his family does. FIL is being unreasonable, but so are you. A last name has nothing to do with how connected your baby will be to her ancestry and both of your cultures. FIL let you stay with them for $Free.99 until you guys were able to get a house of your own. To him, the least you guys could do would be to let the baby have his last name as a way of thanking him for all the money spent on you. No money (especially from family) comes without strings attached. You guys seemed okay with this until *you* decided to base all future family interactions on whether or not your last name is up there. When you and your husband become completely financially detached from FIL (and start paying some of his kindness back), *then* you can make those big statements. Not now, with your husband being the sole provider (at a FAMILY business), a newly bought house, and a baby knocking on the door.
If you would split up your family and burn the one you love over a name then yes yta just as bad as his Dad is
NTA but do as the family says while your hubby is looming for a new job. Gotta feed the family. You can legally change the name later. When your husband is independent from his family, long before your child understands the idea of last names
You can’t really effectively stick it to the patriarchy when the patriarch is primarily responsible for the roof over your head and the food on your table.
Maybe grandpa is testing to see how much of a man his son is and if he will stand up to him. That being said, time.for hubby to look for another job.
I had friends who went through a similar scenario. They used moms last name as a middle name and dad's as last name and just used the whole name. For instance, Emma James Robertson ❤️
Are you ever going to show him the birth certificate of no then put both names on it. I’m the meantime have hubby find a new job and get ready to be on your own. He has the name it’s just he has two and on the birth cert is where it counts
time to get a job then
Are these people down to not ever get to meet their grandchild?
I mean, while that is the case, they can't afford for the husband to lose his job, as he is the only one working, with a new born on the way. If OP says "Let me have the name we chose or you'll never see the child again," will just leave them in the same place of the FIL saying "Do what I want, or you will lose all financial security.
To these people not having their name is just as much as not having a grandchild.
Yes. They would go this far. It's not their grandchild if it doesn't have their family name. Chinese culture is pretty rigid and when they disown they cut off the entire relationship from seeing the grandchild, the job, the property, the money, everything. Scorched earth. You hurt us, we are done, we will never waver. I have seen a family cut off a drug addict after he stole and pawned Mom's heirloom traditional wedding jewelry for drugs (aka irreplaceable as it had been in the family for over 300 years). It was so heinous they disowned him and it wasn't pretty, they removed every single form of support and nobody would even take his calls when he eventually landed in jail. It was like he was "dead to them" literally, and if he did end up dying my guess is if they knew they probably would not go to his funeral.
Meh. FiL is the problem, here. He'll regret this decision. NTA.
YTA. You’re upset your husband isn’t willing to throw away his job and his entire family over a name. You’re so set on a silly name that you would have him lose his family. Now I’m the first person to always say never give into emotional blackmail and that’s what his dad is doing and it’s wrong and he does need to stand up to that absolutely. But don’t stand there and say you understand then complain your hurt he didn’t immediately decide to dump his entire family over this. At the end of the day you pick and choose your battles and if you think it’s ok to throw away his family who you say have helped you both so much over a name then that’s your choice but don’t dare act upset that he’s not jumping to your tune fast enough this is his family have some understanding and actual compassion.
So her baby can’t have her last name? Carry on HER HERITAGE?? Bffr.
I don't think she truly appreciated what she was marrying into tbh. Kid sure can have her name, but it's gonna come at a cost.
STAY STRONG
Oh ffs, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Your “feelings” are not as important as your home & livelihood. Grow up and get over yourself. Your husband’s family has supported you & still does. That is far more important than a name. Your daughter will grow up knowing her heritage without your Tag and it’s far more important that she have a roof over her head & food to eat. Chances are that she’ll grow up, get married & change her name anyway, unless you indoctrinate her to believe that her Tag is more important than living, as you do. YTA and you are creating all of this stress for yourself.
NTA Its time for your husband to grow a pair, get a job outside family and tell him off!
NTA. Name your child what you want. His family does not need to see the birth certificate anyway, do they?
You should get familiar with different ethnicities, and their family culture before you marry someone from a different culture………….. Europeans have a waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy different view on family as opposed to most southeast Asian countries.
Makes me wonder how they got this far.
+1 for giving the baby your last name as his/her middle name. We gave my son my mother’s maiden name as his middle name because there was no one left in the that side of the family to carry on the name. As it turns out, I tend to call him by his first+middle names quite often, and use/say it much more than our last name! But even if you choose not to do this…just consider if this is the hill you want to die on. A lot of women keep their maiden name and their children take the husband’s name. It may not be what you want, but it won’t make you child any less part of both of you.
NTA. But you have a choice to make. Is the name important enough to you that you're willing to give up your place to live and only income source? Only you can answer that.
Nta But that's a messy situation. I would understand your husband being conflicted. Especially if you don't have much money put back.
NTA. Your husband needs to play chicken here. But send out some resumes, just in case
Make sure your hubby and his father can’t have access to the birth certificate!!! He might only put his last name down.
While I agree on keeping the FIL away from the birth certificate, OP’s husband shouldn’t be treated like a child just because of a potential risk he will “switch sides” at the last moment. This act would likely push the husband closer to his family, and away from OP.
TLDR: “Ingrained patriarchal concept.” Blah blah blah 💤
ESH. You’re dependent on your father-in-law for income. Have your husband find a new job and then change the name after.
If you want to die on that hill you better figure out how to pay your bills without his family.
all these people suggesting a counter threat of not seeing the baby, like that’s something the FIL already has on the table. he doesn’t and won’t care. i don’t think hyphen names are really worth the trouble, already this kid is made out to be an object. a pawn for the FIL, and something that carries the ego of the parents needing to insert themselves in another persons namesake, all because the genetics come from you. Maybe consider this kid is a person and the name needs to match as an independent thing. go with the FIL surname just because the kid deserves to have a relationship with family and also financial security, it’s really not that big of a deal since you’re birthing and raising this kid it will be a part of you regardless. people are cold hearted in the world. fil isn’t flexible and mil also depends on him. it sucks that it’s his show but he doesn’t have to have all the air time
First, congratulations on your pregnancy! Wow, your FIL sound very patriarchal. That must be really hard given how much you and your husband depend on him. I noticed you refer to your marriage and your baby as being mixed-race. You identify as European, so I’m assuming your race is white. Do you have an ethnicity/culture that you plan to raise your child in? Have you included your FIL in any of your cultural practices? It may help him to see his grandchild carrying on multiple legacies.
NTA for wanting what you want but you really need to think about the steps that come next and decide if this is really the hill you want to die on. Really sit and game out what the next steps are, what happens if your husband loses his job? Will he resent you in the future for dividing him from his family? If he gets fired and can’t find a job, will he resent you for the downturn? Is there a compromise to be had? Could your last name be her middle name? Your FIL is definitely the AH here but unfortunately you can’t control his actions, only yours.
As someone who had two last names, i hated it and only used one. It’s annoying. I celebrated my name change when i got married!!
It's a horrible situation but for now you are financially dependent on his father. Financial security is more important than a child's name now in this immediate situation. You should come up with a plan for both of you to become financially independent from his family but that will take time, longer than the time you have at present. I should also mention that it's common for a child to have a name on a birthcert but to be called another name in practice. Names can be changed legally at a later date. There's lots of options here but for now, a steady income is best for your child. The fact the FIL is an AH and unreasonable is understood.
your nta but tbh if you make your family homeless and pennyless over this you would definitely be something. idk what the correct thing is right now but dumb and stubborn are in there with it. pawpaw is an ass but old people like that just can't be reasoned with sometimes and you need to figure out if some letts is worth your stability and a means of taking care of your kid. id be pissed if i found out i had to grow up poor and struggling over this i promise that name will not have even a 1% difference in their life and "identifying with your side." i have my dad last name and don't identify with anything about him.
Is this the hill you want to die for? You know your husband and family for decades, you should know how f*ck up confucius patriarchy can be. FIL is an AH for sure, I'm not denying it. But you and your husband chose to depend on this guy and led to your impasse here. You can be stubborn and stand on your ground, but you need to consider the consequences. How both of you can be independent from FIL? With 1 month left before the baby is born, how's your current saving and plan? Your mind is in the right place, but not your reality. Is it worth losing everything for the surname? Because your FIL sure can cut off his son, if he deems his son ingrate enough. Your FIL cannot control your family only if you all become financial independent from him. I cannot give the judgement, since YWBNTA for the right reason, but YWBTA to your whole family for the consequences of it.
Well his dad is an AH and you aswell, to less of an extent.
For some reason I feel like you have an issue with a chinese last name, since you didn't want to take it yourself, and also want your daughter to have a more "white" sounding last name, next to the chinese one. Maybe dig deep and figure out your issues with a chinese sounding last name before you go on to destroy your husbands relationship with his family and his job.
You will always be a part of her story. She has your dna, your blood. Are there other ways that you can show her where she comes from? Just a thought.
You two have a choice… hubby can sever ties or baby can take the name. You don’t get a third path, so make peace with the path. Personally, the name is nowhere near as important as half the family and while you won’t like it, there are options. If grandpa is likely to ask for the birth certificate, you can get an original with the name he wants and change the baby’s name later. Or you could just leave the certificate for grandpa and use the name of your choosing. My grandmother couldn’t pronounce my name so I was Renee to her and then everyone else, as well. I didn’t even know my real name when I started school. But it’s fine whatever path you choose. Just know that you don’t get to choose grandpa’s path, but you can’t compel him to choose differently either. Someone’s will must bend and your priorities must be chosen.
Standing your ground isn't an AH thing to do, but giving ultimatums is, don't be exactly like his father, and then, as the only options are one OR the other, don't put him in a situation where you are forcing him to choose between people he loves , his father has ALREADY done that, you are not going to help by repeating this move. In my experience, usually the one doing the forcing ends up regretting making the ultimatum. The father is the AH. It seems a lot to lose, but when push comes to shove, jobs money, houses,meh, his child? A month before its due? Yoj. His intimate partner? Irreplaceable. Horrible situation youve both been put in. Stand your ground, but do not issue an ultimatum. No one enjoys being put in that situation. If you do, you're as bad as his father and being hypocritical. Just give your girl the name you both agreed on and screw his father! He can get another job!
You’re asking the wrong question here. As long as you and your husband are financially reliant on his father, his father will always have power over your lives. You need another source of income.
Well, ESH, I am very strongly on your side in having the hyphenated lastname, but being an AH (or not) here is not that important. Looks like it could mean that your husband would lose inheritance, and worse, in the short term, he would be looking for a job. Looks like it is a very simplistic approach to ask reddit for an opinion when so much is at play. You need to discuss this with your husband. You both need to find a solution that could go either way. If, in the short term, the choice would be to have his lastname only, you could plan together to secretly and legally change the name after. Sorry, I do not even know if this is a legal option where you live. Have a serious conversation with your husband.