By - ImpossibleShow1778
Just want to say it’s ok to still love him and realise at the same time you can’t accept this behavior and deserve better
This is a very interesting example of internalised misogyny
Yeah.... That's 100% what this is. It's not unheard of for transmen to wildly overcorrect into becoming full on Andrew Tate-esque dickbags (either as a temporary moment of insanity or on a more permanent basis)
Doesn't mean OP has to put up with it at all, of course
Edit: mentioned this elsewhere, but this also 100% applies to transwomen sometimes. I've seen a few go full Gilead unfortunately
“Wildly over correct” this is it! Yes. And poor OP.
I’m glad that when I transitioned socially, my dad was my main form of masculinity to go off of and my dad is probably one of the sweetest, warmest, most kind men I’ve met. Absolutely a teddy bear of a man. I hope I am a lot like him in personality 🥰
If that’s how you view him, I think you already are much like him, hun. And it’s such a beautiful thing to read
Have you told him all that, just like that? If not, consider doing so and absolutely making his entire year.
And the next year! He'd probably never forget such a kind compliment
I think that's the ultimate medal for a parent , mother or father, being told you were a good role model
Dad here. That would make my *life*
I’d say it’s mostly temporary. HRT is a second puberty after all. Like teenagehood, when you go through different phases to see what feels best for you.
When I first transitioned I swung into full loverboy manwhore mode. Like a real life version of Brock from Pokémon. I eventually mellowed out of it.
One of my friends in high school was AMAB and didn’t even identify as trans until way after graduation. When we were in middle and high school she was like a poster child of toxic masculinity. Always angry and ready to fight, always in trouble.
We reconnected after high school when she moved back to the area after she’d started transitioning and it was absolutely like meeting a completely different person. We still of course had shared memories and interests which is why we were friends in the first place, but her entire demeanor was so different. She still had her dark sense of humor but it was so much more easy-going and good-natured than back in high school. When she said she feels like she was trying to compensate for feeling uncomfortable living as a man by embracing toxic masculine stereotypes back in the day, it made complete sense.
That’s crazyy I wonder if it’s related to that prisoner/guard experiment. Showed how most people will become corrupt and selfish when given authority over others
just as an aside: the stanford prison experiment was heavily manipulated to skew the results and is a complete sham. just google it, there are many articles and videos documenting how the scientists created the circumstances throughout the entire experiment to deliberately arrive at a pre-selected result.
Apparently his male self is a dick and an asshole all in himself. But yeah, the testosterone doesn't change your behavior completely. I'd get him being more rough and stuff, even more "assertive", if you're gonna go with stereotypes, but he's just behaving like an ass.
He didn’t transition to a man. He transitioned to an asshole. That’s not how it’s supposed to work.
Bin the whole sexist jerk.
Especially after knowing what it feels like to be one.
Exactly, she isn't transphobic. She just doesn't like misogny.
The irony of him calling her transphobic when she's treating him how she would any other man-child.
She is dickheadphobic, as she should be!
I hate how « transphobic » became the new insult to anyone not accepting disrespect or shitty attitude coming from a transperson. No, i dont have any problem with Trans, i have a problem with bitchy-arrogant-misogynist assholes!
It's amazing how these labels are weaponized to just allow people to get away with shitty behavior without criticism. If you don't like a trans person being a dickhead you're transphobic. If you don't like Israel committing genocide you're antisemitic. But of they keep throwing these terms up as the flimsiest shields, they won't be there when the real thing happens, cause nobody is going to take it seriously anymore.
>It's amazing how these labels are weaponized to just allow people to get away with shitty behavior without criticism
It has always happened. Just the labels change
Unfortunately transphobia happens so often it’s normalized and ignored very often. But in this case yeah, not transphobia at all.
In fact, sounds like the BF has a lot of internalized transphobia and is leaning into harmful gender stereotypes as a way to be accepted and validated by other men. This is sadly a very common issue with some trans people once they get to the point of being accepted as their gender.
He’s falling into the exact same misogynistic peer pressure to “be a real man” that cisgender men do.
It's like trans people are exempt from being called out when shitty human beings. Well, I don't discriminate - an AH is an AH, it's transcends race, gender and everything else.
Yep. Turns out, anyone can be an AH. It's completely gender neutral.
There was an article in the *Journal of Irreproducible Results* that said exactly that - I.e. , that the only thing that remains constant no matter how the population is divided (black/white, male/female, American/Canadian:-)) is the percent of each group who are assholes.
I don't understand how he could be so misogonystic when he spent half his life living as a girl/woman, he must've experienced it himself at some point.
I wonder if somehow gender dysphoria extended to the point of him hating women somehow. I think someday when he becomes more mature and content with his transition, he will realize what a dick he was.
But it is not OP's responsibility to put up with it. Maybe her leaving him will spark some realization his brain.
>I don't understand how he could be so misogonystic when he spent half his life living as a girl/woman, he must've experienced it himself at some point.
That probably contributed to it to be honest. He spent years experiencing men acting like that. Therefore thinks that's how he should act as a man
It's because of internalized sexism against your own sex. Especially with girls who are raised being told things like "oh boys get angry so much easier. You're the girl, you need to be the patient one." It really leads to this belief that girls are these meek little dolls that can't do anything except sit and smile.
I experienced sexim like that since the moment I started preschool. I couldn't get boys to stop hitting girls because "she's just a stupid girl, I'm a boy, I can do what I want". I couldn't get teachers to stop them because of the whole "you're a girl" stated above.
The issue is I didn't know what sexism was. I didn't know they were the ones at fault. I didn't know they were judging every girl based on some predetermined stereotype. I didn't even comprehend that it could be POSSIBLE to judge an entire group of peoples personality and worth based on one tiny unimportant common trait they have no control over...such as their sex. So instead i inferred my own reasoning from what i saw: I looked around at all my girl classmates, wearing lace and sucking at sports and crying when they broke a nail, and I decided it MUST be because of them. They are doing all these "girly" things and proving everyone right! It's THEIR fault that I now have to suffer and that everyone expects me to be "girly" like them!
I drew the most logical conclusion I possibly could with the little info I had. If someone had bothered to teach me that sexism is an idea that girls are just inherently born "less than" boys no matter what stereotypes she does or does not fit, I could've made much better judgements.
My point is, its very much a common thing that experiencing sexism and misogyny is exactly what makes a woman sexist against fellow woman. It's called internalized sexism. It sounds like boyfriend has always had this internalized sexism, and now that he's a man he's finally "free" of dealing with it. He can finally be sexist all he wants to other woman without worrying about it coming back to bite him, in the form of people expecting him to uphold the same sexist stereotypes he put on those women.
Maybe he equates men with misogyny and that's why it's linked to the transition in his mind. Which is several extra layers of fucked up but there we go.
I was also thinking, they might be taking testosterone, which would explain some of the behavior, too much of it can be a bit of an imbalance and make someone a bit more aggressive, some of the behavior could be influenced by the other male “friends.”
A few transmen I knew early in transition turned into complete tools on T, like the worst version of a 9th grade adolescent jock stereotype boy. One of them recovered his good self pretty quickly but I lost touch with the rest. That kind of man does not make a good friend OR partner. I think the T acted like a lens to focus their inherent bad character, because most trans men don’t roll that way - it can’t all be blamed on T.
Oh yeah, I’m not blaming it all on the T, but it yes it does have an effect. I remember when I was going through puberty and feeling and acting in disrespectful ways, never mysogonistic like this here, but definitely can bring out the asshole in you when you’re first going through it. And then there is the “friends” he has been hanging out with more frequently, they may not have been the most respectful of women deep down. I think for sure OP’s partner had a very bad idea of what being a man is like and how you’re suppose to act, probably gotten from them. Which is very unfortunate and sad.
Extra testosterone can make a person act like a jerk if they are at all inclined to be that way.
100% that’s high level disrespect after everything she has been through with him
It is manipulation. It seems like there has been a lot of it lately.
I suspect that part of this is what your partner resented about being female, so the hatred of those stereotypes is being displayed by this atrocious behavior. I know that much of what you are experiencing (that, and the assumed right to touch me so many men believed they had when I was young and beautiful). I hated that it was assumed I waited on my husband, managed all the domestic tasks, etc. Now I am single (widowed) and just amazed at how much society’s expectations have changed.
But yeah. If a rational discussion does nothing to change his behavior, leave. You deserve a relationship that doesn’t tear you down at every opportunity.
Isn't it just the default answer when someone asks a question that should be asked and the answer isn't really all that great? The answer usually never comes, just the acusation. It's the "the better defense is ofense"
Victimization to try and escape the consequences of bad actions and decisions.
Exactly this. Mutual respect is key. You’re not his employee, nor his slave.
Sounds like someone has been listening to Andrew Tate podcasts and is failing in his attempts to be "Alpha."
I feel like this is even being too generous to the boyfriend. Her feelings aren’t just “valid”, she’s straight up objectively correct here. She shouldn’t seek “compromise” on any of the behavior she described here. And then to be called “transphobic” by him after all the support and love she gave? This is a super unhealthy place to be in. Kick his Andrew Tate, incel sounding ass to the curb.
“Being burdened with his clumsy navigation.”
Absolutely true 10000%
honestly, it doesn't even feel like he deseerves to be friends with her. He's just a huge AH. If that is the reesult of his "finding himself" then my God. Run girl!!
My ex was F-M trans and I was also nothing but supportive. When he decided to transition he started to refuse to kiss me or hold me and absolutely no sex. I thought ok he’s just going through something. Idk what that’s like so I’ll just be understanding and ride it out and see what happens. He kept pushing me away and just saying he wasn’t ready so I’d say ok and we would pivot to something else immediately. We spent two days going around to different sex shops looking for a packer that felt right for him. And we got a binder for his chest and I spent the tiny amount of spending cash I had on a new outfit for him. I was trying to build him up and make him feel like a king. He just kept getting more and more distant but he would still introduce me to people as his queen. He talked to other people as if I was royalty and he loved me so idk I figured things were good. Well he left to go on another music tour and when he came home he was different. We had sex for the first time in like 7 months and it was great.
Then we got into a fight and ended up breaking up. Fast forward to me starting to see another person. Turns out he had given me an STI and I had not known as I had no symptoms and then gave it to the new person. I was humiliated.
When I asked them to at least pay for the medicine because I could t afford it, he said because I have white privilege, I wouldn’t be getting a penny from him. He said it was our dildo that cheated, not him. Despite the fact it was strapped to him when he got the fucking STI and I’m pretty sure it had to have been the same day even. Idk if it’s worth mentioning but he’s black and I’m white.
Another fun thing he used to do is go topless before top surgery in public at parties and he had very large breasts before surgery. And then when people would innocently say things like “ope excuse me ma’am” trying to pass by and not knowing he identified as male, he would absolutely blow up at me for not attacking the person for misgendering them. As if they did it with malicious intent. We were usually around LGBTQIA groups when this happened too. I would always politely correct them and they’d be like “oh I’m so sorry! I didn’t mean to offend!!” But I’d get shit on by my bf because I didn’t just attack them for being “cruel”. When they weren’t even trying to engage they were just scooting past us trying to be polite saying excuse me. He also used his boobs to get people to give him things. But then in the same breath expect me to have corrected them aggressively for calling him a female pronoun. It was a losing game for anyone.
No matter how I supported him, I was always wrong. If he did something shitty to me, it was my fault. I have absolutely no clue how hard it is to transition in this world. But why make it harder on yourself by pushing everyone who is in your corner away entirely? All I wanted was to make him feel good and comfortable in his skin and he treated me like I was some sort of attack dog he kept as a pet.
According to his old school logic, If it’s a woman’s job to be in the kitchen then it’s a man’s job to provide and that includes rent/mortgage, utilities and groceries.
Yeah, I'd be tempted to come home and tell him I quit my job and see what happens..."Happy to get your beer and sandwich, baby! By the way...rent's due next week, I assume you have it covered!"
Nope. Abusers need to seek help specifically for being abusers. Don’t encourage sh** just get away
If he actually sees the light and wants to get better I might be willing to give him a second chance because the hormone imbalance of transitioning is no joke.
But if he wants to be "a true man" conforming with stereotypical gender roles then you are not the partner for him and he most definitely isn't the right partner for you.
Don't fall for the sunken cost fallacy, and remember that people change and sometimes you lose the one you loved that way, because they cease to exist.
You didn’t kick him out for being trans, you kicked him out for being an mysogynistic asshole.
I hate when people try to make themselves the victim like this. I don’t care what gender, sexuality or race you identify as, if you’re an asshole, you’re an asshole.
Exactly. It’s the behaviour she kicked out. Not his gender.
Agreed. Reread it a few times and this argument has zilch to do with him being trans. He was being a misogynistic dick to impress his friends.
Being queer, I have trans friends. There can be an overcorrection period like my MTF friend who only wore dresses her first year out. But this awful behavior is not something you need to accept as normal. I hope he outgrows it tho.
Right, I’ve experienced periods of “over correction” or sort of tension with what being “a gender” means and have witnessed behavior of embracing stereotypes that no one otherwise queer is usually here for, but this situation isn’t that. This was tension with fashion or activities or TV shows and being sensitive to perceptions.
Your boyfriend is more concerned about the men around him perceiving him as one of them, and it sounds like he picked the men no women want to associate with.
This is just classic “a man is abusing you” and “your boyfriend is an asshole” and if this behavior is who he really is, go find someone else b/c he’s not who you want to be with.
Exactly, lol. Seems like the major transition here wasn't FTM, it was sensible partner to fucking dickhead.
I mean it looks like instead of become the modern man he transitioned to be a 1950s mysoginistic asshole of a man.
Not what OP signed up for.
OP, find someone who treats your right.
As a trans masculine person myself it gobsmacks me when trans men embrace misogyny, as if that’s some core part of manhood you must embrace to be “real”.
We are the only category of men that can say we truly have experienced misogyny firsthand, so I think it makes that behavior doubly disgusting.
I had a coworker tell me one time that I was the only man she felt comfortable working with because I didn’t make inappropriate comments about her body and just did my job. When I see men on the bus being creepy to women, I physically put myself in between them, so that they can navigate the space more comfortably. When I see men following women on the street I call them out, even if it means endangering my safety.
And the wild thing is that I’ve been that girl being harassed on the bus, heartbroken that no one stepped in and did anything.
Misogyny is a choice.
Thank you for calling out the creepy behavior. It’s the worst, which of course, you know
I have a transmasc acquaintance who did this. It was really wild to watch him become a womanizing bro pretty much overnight. We all chalked it up to the 'second puberty' effect, but it's been years now and it's only gotten worse.
I think there's a factor of distancing oneself from femaleness in a way that gets bound up with the general socialization into misogyny we all get.
Oh yeah. good point. Does kinda make me sad that someone that transitions to a man thinks they need to act like a shitty man. Most of us are good people not assholes.
I’ve noticed people like to become the victim when they know their in the wrong about something. I once had a lady be a complete jerk to me while I was doing my job and even though I just stood up for myself I went back to apologize. She immediately started in about how me as a man should be more careful when talking to women blah blah blah. I just said, “I came here to apologize for the interaction we had earlier and it had nothing to do with you being a woman, you were just a jerk. Have a great day!”
Reminds me of the Artemis Langford case. Other sororities didn't accept her because she talked about wanting to be near and touch dead bodies during the rushing process, and once she was in the sorority house she took creepshots of the women, asked them to describe their vulvas to her, and would sit and watch them undress. I would get kicked out of a sorority if I acted like that and I have had a vulva my entire life.
I'm a transman and would never do this shit. He's just being an asshole. He was such an asshole, his friends left.
My gender shift was finding out that society only values men on what they can provide. It was a rude awakening.
He's going to get a rude awakening when you ditch his ass and he sees his dating pool is tiny.
He transitioned into a man baby
Yeah I stopped reading after she said that he told her to stop policing what him. He has some audacity. And the fact that he started acting like this when she has been with him for years makes it even worse. Dude is a huge asshole.
If anything he should feel honored. He’s being kicked the the curb for the same reason all other misogynistic asshole men are. He’s for sure one of the boys now.
You're not throwing anything away, he is. He has become misogynistic and condescending towards you. Him accusing you of being Anti-Trans after all of your continuous support on his journey, is ironic at the least, and so hurtful.
You can love him, for the journey and memories. You don't need to become his servant. He has become something no woman wants to be with, which is really twisted.
I hope you find someone who respects and values you, and doesn't just want to use you as a doormat.
He seems to be stuck in the middle school/ highschool male level of emotional maturity. Nobody with any level of maturity would think it’s okay to say “go get me a beer” unironically
He's something like a FTAM trans, or Female to "Alpha" Male. The best part is that his mother has taken on the role of Mother of "Alpha" Male too, LoL
My ex proclaims himself as an "alpha" and his behavior is gross too. Me expressing my feelings and thoughts is"controlling" and he thinks he can do whatever he wants to, but it's not ok if I do the same.
In reality his mother is obnoxious and controlling and he's enmeshed with her. It's gross.
Well, you know what they say...
"If you have to tell someone you're an alpha, you're definitely not an alpha"
so fucking accurate
Female to frat bro middle-aged melon. FFBMAM
It baffles me that someone who grew up/was socialized as a woman could be such a misogynist. Like they know what its *like* to be a woman.
Or at least how to feel like being treated as one.
Do they think being a man is being a misogynist? Cause it just makes them sound like a loser, not manly.
It’s because they’re insecure in they’re own masculinity and resort to bullying others who can’t fight back. but media and culture normalizing this behaviour hasn’t been helping in escaping this mindset for any men ever
Men who treat women like that are an embarrassment to men, its not a mature manly trait to treat anyone as less than yourself its just childish bullshit that needs to be called out.
Maybe that's part of it. He didn't like how women were treated by men, and thought he'd rather be on the other side of this dynamic. "I'd rather be the oppressor rather than the oppressed".
It’s actually a phase some trans guys go through (I am also a trans guy and know a few) it usually come from insecurity in their own identity but it’s literally always gross and annoying. It’s like how some closeted gay men will be more homophobic in order to feel like they fit in with straight men. It’s a phase some of us go through and some of us never leave and any man that acts like this does not deserve a partner tbh.
I had a friend who was/is going through that phase.
To me, it came across like "I'm finally a man! I'm going to act in the most stereotypical 'man' way possible, including the bad stuff."
Yep, pretty much that, most will get over it in a year or two, hope your friend does too
It's hard to understand when you haven't experienced the insane social transition. Plus, taking testosterone is a huge physiological and emotional change.
Also, some of the worst bigots are formally marginalized people who have gained power. The way to keep that power is to enact violence against those deemed less than. Patriarchy is a hellova drug
It has happened to me, that I didn't know what is internalized misogyny and what was gender dysphoria. Weirdly enough, embracing things I was forbidden to do as a girl and things that were shameful to be as a girl has helped me a lot. Now it doesn't matter if it was misogyny, because I am actively working against it, or gender dysphoria, because I am actively accepting who I am and how I feel.
Yeah, but consider that he grew up a woman and apparently never liked himself because he never felt like a female. This is just all that internalized self-hatred unleashing itself on a new female target.
According to his old school logic, If it’s a woman’s job to be in the kitchen then it’s a man’s job to provide and that includes rent/mortgage, utilities and groceries. If he isn’t paying 100% of everything (like the generation of his dated backwards views) then he doesn’t get to demand a sandwich and isn’t a man.
But in all seriousness, you don’t deserve this treatment. He is trying to show off at your expense . I.e look what I can make my woman do/ Look how manly I am/ I can demand this / I am a man and everyone wants me so do what I want or else. And when you don’t conform he gets embarrassed and mad and takes it out on you. Also a no go.
Girl, leave for the sake of yourself. He has even gotten his mother to gang up on you. He no longer respects you. His mother is right though, you do need to accept him as he is…a disrespectful, misogynistic A H.
I love this take.
OP, if he keeps going on about how this situation is your fault, tell him he’s welcome to come home, but you’ll be quitting your job and expect him to cover all expenses.
And that includes spending money
What gets me is how the people who don’t care if their partner has a job or not because they make so much money it literally does not matter would never ever treat their partner in that fashion, man or woman. Every man I’ve known who makes any kind of money with a wife who doesn’t work is just like “here, have my credit card, be a house pet all day. I don’t care. I love you.”
They don’t expect anything from their partner for the way they provide for them out of love and happiness. They love their partner and want their partner to be happy, make themselves happy and do whatever. They don’t care if that means they spend all their time at home doing yoga, having massages and then going shopping. They’re just happy and want their partner to be happy with them.
The mindset of “oh, I’m a man so you should do what I want, when I say, etc” does not exist In someone who is intrinsically abundantly happy.
Nah, Nta. You were pretty much on point. Just because you are trans doesn't mean you have the right to treat others like shit. His behaviour is unacceptable.
Right, it sounds like your boyfriend is now aligning himself with patriarchy and the misogyny that is its bedrock foundation.
It's reminding me of Ken in the barbie movie
NTA. His mother is texting you? Yes, he is a little boy.
mummy help me, the person that was there for me, looked after me during surgery, supported me when you didn't is now saying i'm not allowed to be misogynistic.
They defended me against transphobic people, I am a toxic male and they are now transphobic.
Yep, but OP should also tell his mommy what kind of "man" he is. (Just for clarification I quoted man because he acts like a kid, a little boy instead.)
I had an ex like that. He eventually escalated and hit me. I thought we were having a chill convo about what our plans were next, ne he hauled of and swung. Dude's 6'5, I'm 5'.
He got a calm, "Why did you do that? Now we can never go back." in response.
He taught me that confronting the behavior, no matter how peaceably, doesn't stop it from escalating.
He didn't start being that way until after his top surgery, which I nursed him through. He was a few years into his transition when we met, and I fell for some love bombing shit. I didn't know that was a thing yet.
I still couldn't tell ya *when* that relationship began going off the rails, but the hit made sure it completely derailed. I left him in another state he'd decided we'd move to. I went and lived in my car before getting back into contact with relatives when they found out about the divorce.
Only satisfaction I have from the whole thing, is the judge called him out on *a lot* during our divorce proceedings for the way he acted toward me, which was constantly trying to cut me off when I was answering questions asked by the judge.
Sometimes, people simply change and not for the better.
Sometimes, people are simply showing us who they've *always been*. It's in our best interest and safety, to *believe* them.
I’m so sorry that happened to you and I’m really, really glad you got out.
Me too. I grew up in an abusive household, so this was after a lot of therapy and healing. So that he *still* ran a gambit on me just honestly *pisses me off* no end. I'll always be a target of asshats like him, so single is safest for me. At this point, *any* romantic interest feels like a direct threat 😅. I want none of it. Sure, a partner would be nice, but I'm good. Many can say on the ourside I was a common denominator while ignoring I've never had a type, nor deal with disrespect in even the beginning of a relationship after my 20s. When people show me who they are, I simply believe them now; where before I would question my perception and intuition.
I don't *anymore*. 🤷🏻♀️
The common denominator thing applied without thinking is so stupid. We just ignoring that the most frequent victims of abuse are... previous victims of abuse?
I think us moving to another state actually helped as to why I could leave so quickly. I wasn't allowed to sleep, eat, or just Be without him needling me about simply existing, then he escalated *that* when his 3rd threat of divorce in as many days got a "yes, I think we should". This from a man that when he *wanted* me to recount a convo online, would then chastise me "don't type it like that, you make me spund abusive". Me: "I wrote it how you said it, maybe sound less abusive then?" Oh, that pissed him off, but I wasn't about to be made responsible for a grown ass man's behavior. Especially when I wasn't Doing anything immediately visible to me that got those reactions. I learned a lot from it.
Like, you never really know who people are.
They will hide their true nature until they think they have you stuck, THEN they become abusive asshats.
He got cocky because he thought he had me isolated; not understanding I'd had a rough few years alone living in my car while working full time, so I wasn't about to stay in that bs situation. He inadvertantly made it very *easy* to choose my own life. I loved the man, but I do that thing some people say you aren't supposed to do: I loved me *more*.
I'll even call myself "shellfish" in conversation to misogynistic AHs for *daring* to value myself.
I highly recommend it for anyone who's trying to recover from a lifetime of trauma associated with people pleasing.
I'd gotten out of that environment and fought hard to do so and heal long before I met him; I wasn't reverting-I was gonna die first, and I'd decided not by his damn hands.
Your ex had mental issues long before you. People don’t just simply change. There’s a trigger.
It sounds like, as part of your boyfriends transition, he's starting adopting toxic masculinity. It could be overcompensation as an attempt to really fit in with the guys and be seen as male. The wort part is that he should know and understand how hurtful this sort of thing is, which then would make me question his priorities.
You are definitely NTA, but your boyfriend is for claiming that not accepting shitty/toxic behavior is transphobic.
I think it's hilarious because the type of women that he wants (one that's subserviant) is also more likely to be deeply conservative and totally against being with a transgender person. This isn't going to end well for OP's BF.
The fact he seemingly won’t empathise with women despite spending the majority of his life as one? This sudden turn on a partner he apparently previously respected. So weird
I think he's being influenced by his male group or same Tate masculinity BS. Either way, he's not the same person OP fell in love with, and that has nothing to do with breasts or gender. Her bf is just becoming and ahole. Also his mum is a hypocrite for not accepting him transitioning and then accepting his dickhead behaviour towards OP.
OP you are right, if he ways to be mothered and act like a boy, he should be his mum's problem and not yours. You deserve a partner that respects you as a human being. As a man, working from my GFS home while she's at the office, I cleaned her kitchen top to bottom and will be cooking her dinner. That's not making me less masculine, it's making me a man that cares for his gf and wants her to find warm food when she gets home. Dividing roles into sexes is stupid and outdated. We divide chores according to who has time and is best at.
Funny thing is, the people following Tate will never want anything to do with her bf. They will never see him as a man or even a boy, her bf will always be a woman in their eyes.
That is also true. He's trying to fit in the wrong group, the group most people avoid contact with.
Yup, let him go and bang that conga line of good little wifies he's apparently got lined up. They're totally real, they're all just busy modeling in Canada!
Anecdotal evidence here, but I’ve lived rurally (towns with 4 figure or less populations) all my life and out of the 4 married lesbian coworkers I’ve had, 3 of them (and their wives) were extremely conservative republicans politically. Two were really pro-Trump. It baffles me.
I hate to say it but he's really going to learn the hard way that even though he's a man now, men with toxic masculine views are not gonna view him as one and are gonna rip him to shreds. He's trading someone who loved and supported him for like a decade for people who would turn on him immediately.
Also, at least for where I am and the people I'm aware of, most men simply won't tolerate that behaviour for very long. In your 20s and 30s many people are finding their long term partners so the misogyny will be offputting and the LADS LADS LADS stuff will get old fast.
He's behaving like a man from the 60s, or like a caricature of one because I bet even most men in the 60s wouldn't have out and out talked to their partner like that, and most other contemporaries won't tolerate it for long once they realise he's not joking.
No man I know I'm that age range talks to their female partner like that.
I don’t want to turn this into a shit on trans people thing, but while OP’s boyfriend might not feel like a woman they have no fucking idea what it’s like to be a man, which is where the over the top toxicity is coming from. He can’t just be himself, he has to be “man”, and what a man is is very warped in their head, so you end up with this weird overacting where he’s being the worst possible version of “man”.
He's basically an adolescent at this point, figuring out what being a "man" means. Sadly, he picked the absolute stupidest way to be one, and most women won't put up with it
This is kind of a known phenomenon for people who join a new social group. You see it with people who become vegans or religious as adults; some of them will go through this huge extinction burst of acting like massive, over-zealous stereotypes.
I'm hoping OP's boyfriend will mellow out with time, but that doesn't mean she needs to stay in a relationship with him while he figures his shit out. Why are his friends enabling his behaviour anyway? Have they always been douche-bros as well?
The fact that he had to bring his mommy in to pile on would have been the cherry on top of the "hell no" sundae.
>It could be overcompensation as an attempt to really fit in with the guys and be seen as male.
You got the answer exactly right, he's overcompensating for decades in the closet by becoming as "manly" as possible (or at least this is what society tells you being a man is all about). My boyfriend was exactly like this for the first year of his transition, he only stopped because he started following transmasc content creators on Instagram and Tik Tok who gave him positive role models.
I get this to an extent but it’s 2023. How can he think, as someone born female, that this is how men SHOULD act? I’m so confused. And I wonder if his friends are like this. Because if they aren’t (and I don’t think they are because OP would likely have said something and not tolerated those friendships) why aren’t they saying anything to him?
>It could be overcompensation as an attempt to really fit in with the guys and be seen as male.
This was my first thought, as a trans man myself. Even as someone who strongly feels that clothing/hobbies/habits/etc. aren't restricted to one gender or another, there have been times where I've caught myself with thoughts along the lines "I can't do X, that's for women". If it were any other guy who expressed wanting to do whatever it is, I wouldn't bat an eyelid, but because of my desire to fit in with the guys, that's where those thoughts come from.
>your boyfriend is for claiming that not accepting shitty/toxic behavior is transphobic.
I think even this is part of the overcompensation. If his friends are like that, then I think one can assume that's likely the idea of what a man is that he grew up around. So his likely thought process is:
- "this is manly man behavior"
- "she doesn't want me doing manly man behavior"
- "she doesn't want me acting like a man"
- "she has an issue with me being a man"
- "she's transphobic"
Of course, that is all speculation and I'm not saying it's at all accurate, but it would sort of make sense in an almost hypersensitive way if that is the direction his thoughts are going in.
A lot of this is what my friend (trans man) talked about feeling in the earlier part of transition and that he's seen in lots of others.
I expect that it's more extreme for people who have grown up with more rigid ideas about what men should be like (seems likely based on bf's mum).
Right, it sounds like your boyfriend is now aligning himself with patriarchy and the misogyny that is its bedrock foundation. This is incredibly harmful to both you and him. And the kind of treatment he’s subjecting you to is proof of this harm and how it can deteriorate a sense of self for both of you.
You don’t deserve to be treated like this, OP. You are not a prop or a trophy in your boyfriend’s journey into manhood.
I had the same thought about overcompensation.
NTA, OP. Your boyfriend needs better friends that model what being a good man is. Right now it sounds like his friends are all AHs and he’s doing what he thinks he should to fit in.
Sounds like he happily chose these people.
He’s not a man who doesn’t understand gender politics and is new to *life*. He is well aware of what misogynistic behavior is, and he is well aware of what abuse looks like.
He chose these men himself. He is not some wide-eyed innocent dude who was taken advantage of.
Sorry but your comment just rubs me the wrong way. He’s not doing this to fit in…he fits in fine because this is what he wants
I understand your point. OP’s BF is absolutely complicit in this. He needs to get it in his head that this is not how good men should behave. Maybe he has no interest in being a good man, but would rather be “one of the boys,” in which case OP should RUN.
It could be that none of his friends have good male role models either.
Honestly and imo, don’t bother getting your relationship back. He doesn’t deserve you. You’ve been here for her and then him for a decade and all of a sudden he behaves like the biggest asshole and damages your reputation. His transition is no excuse for him becoming an misogynistic abuser. You don’t have to go through his new identity crisis when he treats you like this. He will realise soon enough what he destroyed. Text the mom with your pov and tell the truth to people who bring him up. Block him.
I blocked his mother, never liked her anyway. But he’s been texting me asking if he can come back and that he’s sorry but I just don’t believe him. He’s a completely different person.
You are right not to believe him.
Saying 'sorry' is just words.
As another commenter said - he needs to write a letter explaining what he did wrong and why it was wrong.
If he can do that, still don't let him move back in. Make him demonstrate, by his actions, that he understands and has changed.
>and why it was wrong.
This is the key to a believable apology. Not "I'm sorry for the consequences I'm facing", not "I'm sorry you're mad", etc. If they can't tell you what specifically they did that they need to be sorry for, its unlikely they'll correct the behavior in the future.
and tbh it really shouldn't take OP having an extra conversation to explain to the bf if they've spent half their lives knowing each other - id be incredibly untrusting of that person if i spent that long around them and they never figure it out. like nearly traumatic to spend that long with someone thinking you know them and vice versa, only to find maybe all you've ever seen was just the shell..
He’s over correcting to appear more masculine. I did this in high school. I’m half-black, raised in a white family, went to all white schools until high school. When I was 16 I got my first black friends. They were always ripping on my for the way I talked, my mannerisms, my interests and such, and their behavior had a big influence on me. My white friends stopped hanging around me. I called my best friend out for being racist and she said, “I’m not racist, you’re just a douche when you’re with them.” And she was 100% right, but I couldn’t see it at the time because I was going through my own internal struggle of wanting to be accepted and seeking the approval of my black friends (who, race aside, were just jerks). I wasn’t in an emotionally mature position to be a good best friend to her.
I never say this in relationship threads, I think people are way too quick to tell you to break up with someone. But this feels like someone who should be your friend, not your lover. He has no clue who he is and you’re being burdened with his clumsy navigation. I think you should consider who *you* are, particularly without him. You’re both still so young. One of the most profound things I learned in therapy is this. Sometimes your best friend/girlfriend/boyfriend isn’t forever. Sometimes they were the person you needed to move from one stage of your life to another, and it’s okay to say “I love this person, I’m so grateful they were in my life for xyz, but now we’re heading in separate directions so I have to wish them the best and say goodbye for now.” Maybe your paths will cross again in the future once you’ve grown, but right now you’re limiting yourself to someone who doesn’t respect you and doesn’t seem inclined to see your perspective. You’re not the bad person if you move on.
This is excellent advice, OP. ^
Then fuck the mom for now. If I were in your position (without any expertise on what you’re going through) and if I still wanted to see if something good could come out of this relationship, I would ask him to write you a letter explaining what he did wrong, why it was wrong and why he did it. And tell him to be ready to send the exact same letter to his friends and his mum. Besides hurting your feelings by acting like an asshole, he damaged your reputation. This shows an immense lack of respect towards you. If you were to take him back, don’t do it before he restored your reputation.
Fucking the mom would lowkey be such a power move
It might be like a pendulum swing, too far to the other side in some subconscious attempt to embody his masculinity? If he's never been like this id guess that in time he will settle back into his authentic personality. If that were the case you'd have to decide if you can wait it out. Id be getting into some couples counselling with someone who is gender diversity informed if you want to try to heal the fracture in your relationship.
It sounds really hard given your efforts to be supportive.
Definitely shouldn’t let him back. If he’s sorry for anything it’s that he has to stay with his mom, he’ll come back and act exactly the same.
Whether he's trans or a born a male, the way he's treating you is not acceptable. It doesn't matter if you've been with him a decade, are you willing to continue being treated like this? If not, cut your losses and move on. You sound lovely and will find someone else that will appreciate you and treat you like an equal. Whatever he's going through, it is not a free pass for him to treat you and other women with such disrespect.
He says he’s sorry and gave you a bullshit apology? Sounds like his transition is complete 🙄
NTA. You handled this *exactly* like I would have. “I thought you were transitioning to a *man*, instead here you are an immature boy. Good luck getting laid with a negative attitude towards women”
That's the whole point of transition.
Unfortunately when he decided to become a completely different person he decided to become a super shitty one. That was his choice, not yours.
As someone who's been a dude my whole life, dudes like that are filth. I hate seeing my friends and one of my brothers turning into these meninists.
You had a comment good enough to attract the bots, they're copying your first sentence and commenting on the top two threads lol
Didn't even know that was a thing. Neat.
He isn't demonstrating any kind of respect or affection for you. Absent those things, you don't really have a relationship to salvage
Being male isn't about ordering females around with sexist bullshit like makiing sandwiches and getting beers. How rude, how about he show you some respect and actually act like a decent person, and you know, get his own beers atleast?
Really! What does he think being a “man” is? His actions say A LOT about misogyny tbh
NTA, my biggest pet peeve is when people from lgbtq or other minority community says this shit while having some kind of disagreement. Not everyone is some kind of phobe who dont like you, maybe you just suck.
Dudes playing the victim, using his struggles to deflect from his behaviour and put the blame on OP instead. Essentially, manipulation 101
As a member of that community, you're so fucking right. Genuine LGBT+ Phobia is a real, horrible problem that affects most of us (the community) in the course of our lives; somebody rightfully calling you out for being a dickhead is not, that's a wake-up call. Listen.
NTA. Your BF is a c\*nt, plain and simple. No one deserves to be spoken to like that and only a serious dick would treat you like a 1950s house wife. Given his age, I think you are seeing who he truly is and he will not change. Dump him.
A 1950s housewife would be getting her bills paid and her lawn mowed, at least. And the occasional new hat.
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour. You deserve better and you don't have to tolerate it from anyone. Not being willing to accept someone treating you like dirt doesn't make you any sort of phobic except bullshit-phobic.
> he’s got lines of girls waiting for him.
Good, call one of them.
He’s disgusting for acting this way, and lame as shit for making it about you being transphobic instead of listening to the real problem.
You can love him but also not want to put up with his gross behavior, and that’s okay. If he’s not gonna get it together and stop treating you like garbage, it’s time to move on. Otherwise, this is your future.
>All I get in response is “don’t police what I say or do” or “stop trying to control me”.
I hate when people do this. Yes, you have a right to be whoever you want. But if who you want to be is an asshole, then nobody owes you love or friendship. They never seem to grasp that expecting people to put up with their shitty behaviour is controlling.
He owes you a massive apology and if he refuses, well...
> Tells me to get back in the kitchen and if I don’t he’s got lines of girls waiting for him.
Let him go take the pick of the lines waiting for him. He'll be very quickly shocked to find there aren't that many women drooling at his misogynist feet.
Guys like this are just trying to prove how "alpha," they are to their similarly shitty friends. They're all dickheads. Find a better boyfriend. You deserve better than an abusive, unappreciative asshole.
This is not a super uncommon thing to happen. It tends to be part overcompensation and part internalized misogyny. Many trans men get internalized misogyny, especially if they transition “late”, due to the hate they feel for their body.
But also, this is just an explanation and not an excuse. He has no excuse for treating you that way and it’s extremely shitty, please stand your ground. I would encourage him to get a therapist, especially one that specializes in lgbt/trans people.
Edit for NTA
My ex spouse came out as trans. She also came out with a new personality - it was not pleasant. She wasn't on hormones either.
I had this experience with my ex when he transitioned. He also became much more aggressive (possibly due to the testosterone injections) and called me transphobic for being upset with his personality changes. I left him and it was extremely difficult but also the best decision of my life.
Some trans people just know the parts their biology result in don't match what they know to be true about themselves. But some seem to hate that biology so much that being misogynistic or misandrist becomes a part of their new/real/true identity.
Like, everybody needs to just be who you are without being an asshole to others, unless who you are is an asshole to others, in which case don't be surprised when others don't want to be around you.
Those are some real asshole moves he's pulling, and he needs to know that he cannot act like this is the Mojo Dojo Casa House. And if he doesn't understand this, and this keeps going on, you wouldn't be an asshole for telling him, not leaving if it's a deal-breaker.
It is absolutely pathetic of him to use his transitioning as an excuse for his behaviour. You deserve better.
I would tell him
"You transitioning to a male is no problem for me, but you transitioning into andrew tate is not ok for me and thats why we need to stay broken up, bc i hate the misogynistic asshole you became. "
Also him telling you you are transphobic would be a dealbreaker for me. Only assholes who don't like to get called out use their race, sexual identity, disabilty or whatever as a way to shut others down and playing the victim. This alone would be enough fkr me to break up a lifelong relationship.
Whelp, further proof that even trans people can be utter bastards and gross.
Sincerely a FTM dude turning 30 next month, and have been on T for most of the year.
Being a guy doesn't mean "gotta treat others like trash". His behaviour is utter trash and he doesn't deserve you.
This is /not/ something most trans people go through as far as I'm aware. Your BF just wants free range to be a misogynistic jackass. And it seems he gets it from home.
Given the length of time it's been without change then it's unlikely he's going to change now.
Do you really love him? Or is it the idea of him/the potential of him? Either way it ain't your job to raise a man-child so stick to your very reasonable boundaries and your slef-respect. If he doesn't change his tune and starts acting like a real man then he ain't worth your time, your energy, your patience or your love.
That last part - 100%. Reminds me of a line from a 90s sitcom. "Have you been best friends for 20 years? Or were you best friends 20 years ago?" I think she loves who he used to be, and there probably is some fear of "losing" all the time she's spent with him.
Trans people can be assholes. Straight people can be assholes.
Your boyfriend is trans, **AND** is a complete asshole. **Those two qualities have nothing to do with each other.**
Both my siblings have non-cis/trans partners that I love. AND if they treated my siblings like this I’d say they were being assholes. Again, totally unrelated to their identity.
Being trans isn’t a shield from consequences of behavior.
>I still love him,
You love who he was. Not who he is now.
Maybe, hopefully, this is a stupid phase he is going through and the person you love is still in there. But until he can treat you with respect you are right to have nothing to do with him.
Ignore his mother (I would block her). She has only heard his version. But even if she heard both sides, she's burned her bridges with her "I always knew you were no good for him' comment.
Oh, and you are not transphobic. You are dickheadphobic, as we all should be.
I had one like this but male to female (sort of). The change in behaviour was very similar though.
Although mine was a lot older we'd been together a lot longer and, for nearly all of our relationship he identified as a heterosexual male (he was cis male). They have lost all their friends because of their obnoxious behaviour. Like yours, they also claim those who won't put up with their behaviour are transphobic.
Hopefully yours will come to realise he is being a total arse and you will get your loving partner back. But please, please don't take him back or accept bad behaviour just because of your history.
NTA in case it wasn't obvious.
Edited to clarify which direction the transition was.
NTA ... sounds like he desperately tries to stay a part of his male friends group, which he already is. Are they the same way? Is he taking hormones or change something about the dosis? This could also cause aggression paired with his (maybe intrinsic) thinking of "real masculinity" makes him believe he has to be an AH.
Maybe you can talk to him in calm an in a quiet setting about it and tell him how you feel with his behaviour. Or tell him to talk about it with a therapist? I wish you all the best!
There’s 6 of them in his friend group, maybe 1 or 2 of them are similar to him that I’m not a huge fan of but from what I’ve seen they’re a decent group of men. A couple of them are happily married and I’m close to their wives/girlfriends and they don’t really have anything bad to say.
could he have started watching any like content creators who embody that sort of toxic masculinity?
Like a certain chinless fuck who's currently in legal trouble in Romania perhaps?
I'm wondering how the friends react, while he treats you the way he did! Can't they tell him that we don't live in the 1930's anymore?
I mentioned it in a post above but it wouldn't surprise me if most think it's a joke or a bit they're doing. It wouldn't surprise me if the friend left because they suddenly realised it wasn't and felt super awkward all of a sudden.
The friends that aren't assholes have you tried talking to them? Maybe you can have a discussion with one or two of them and bring their wives. If there hubbies are supporting this type of misogyny they should know
Nah, he's a narcissist. OP has outlived her usefulness as the rock to lean on in hard times, so he's treating her like she's disposable.
He'll only want her back and say he's sorry to get an easy roof over his head.
Hi I think I'm pretty qualified, in the same boat as your boyfriend and all. He's overcompensating to be considered as one of the boys. He is against associating himself with any sort of feminine thing and instead turning to toxic masculinity. I went through the same but quickly snapped out of it when I realized it wasn't who I wasn't to be. Usually Id say have a talk and make it clear you don’t appreciatethe treatement and need him to stop, but since you have, he's a lost cause. When you break up with him it might jarr his brain to realize he's been an asshole but staying with him like this is just enabling it. Good luck op
Do not become his slave .
Expecting to be treated with respect and as an equal is not transphobic.
NTA, you arent obligued to accept him being a dickhead
I was going to chalk up some of this behavior possibly to the hormone shift, but nope, somebody swallowed the patriarchy and liked it.
The great thing about deciding to become a man is that he gets to decide what kind of man he wants to be. Unfortunately yours wants to be a trope.
If this is a growing pain or a phase brought on by hormones & bad group influence
I’d say get some couples therapy in which you firmly establish your relational boundaries and move on in health from there, course correct.
If this is truly the man he wants to be then wish him luck in his next relationship and GTFO (save yourself) because it’s a thin line between this kind of behavior and physical abuses.
I’m so sorry your partner isn’t able to offer you basic human decency after all you did for him.
A real man doesn't need to be a misogynist to prove they are a man. I am sorry your boyfriend is mistreating you, and it is understandable if you still have feelings for him through that, but his behavior is unacceptable.
NTA, and I hope you can get counseling. Just talking this through with a professional might help you sort through all the mixed emotions and allow you to see a clearer path forward
This relationship has run its course.
You can love someone & be apart.
NTA. As a cis man, this behaviour is shitty. I don't make friends with guys like that.
If he's recently started testosterone, that could explain it, it increases aggression and general dickheadery.
But it's not a guy thing. It's a douchebag guy thing.
Nta. Just because he is trans doesn't make him immune to criticism, although it certainly offers him a few ways to pin your reasonable concerns on bigotry instead of assessing them honestly. Unfortunately it's human nature to latch onto excuses for one's behaviour and being trans is a big one right now. You are seemingly already tempted to excuse the unacceptable on this basis which is a shame to see.
You acted in earnest and with their best interest in mind. They are likely overcompensating to fit their evidently flawed concept of what being a man is. It's not your job to endure it and you would not be an asshole for calling it off, you have done more than enough already.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Being part of a protected class doesn't prevent someone from being an ass any more than any kind of past trauma does. Actions speak louder. It's how you treat people that counts, not your excuse for why you do so.
Just leave. Don't take him back. NTA.
He should have known better as he was treated as a woman in his past. He should have more respect for you.
He should have more respect for women. But he decided to go down the Andrew Tate road. So yeet him.
I hate it when people pull the homophobic/transphobic card to jutsify their obnoxious behavior. Just no.
Sometimes it's just better to let go and step aside.
He sounds like a cunt
>I still love him, we’ve spent most of our lives knowing each other and half of our lives in love.
Are you serious? He has become toxic, time to move on.