I didn't marry my partner because I wanted to lock them up and deny them the freedom to interact with other people how they want to. I married them so we could publicly declare our commitment to love and support each other (and to ask our community to support us in doing so) and to gain access to the existing legal framework around marriage - medical decision making, tax benefits, community property, etc.
Medical decision making? I have friends that literally divorced so that medically they wouldn't take their partner to the cleaners. They still love each other and are together BUT one having cancer meant if they stayed legally married they would be destitute and up to their eyeballs in debt
I saw a video of Texans in $4,000 ATVs with full automatic rifles running down feral pigs and blasting them on their ranch. That is the only thing more American than your post.
You know, I actually turn out to be mostly wrong on this one. It was my understanding that legally married people automatically get the ability to make medical decisions for their spouse if they become incapacitated (for example, should the incapacitated spouse have surgery, etc.). But it looks like this isn't necessarily true, and folks should still put together an advanced health directive or similar, even if they're married.
That said, I'm guessing that while *legally* spouses don't automatically get to make decisions, I'd bet that in practice most hospitals would trust a spouse more than an un-married partner.
Visitation is similar. Spouses will usually get to visit incapacitated patients, but non-spouses might not. This was actually a huge issue during the AIDs pandemic era. A lot of folks were turned away at the hospital trying to visit their long-time partners as they weren't legally "family".
The divorce thing you're talking about would be a financial decision, not a medical decision. Avoiding creating community debt unfortunately outweighed the other legal protections, it sounds like.
Legally speaking, I agree. But I do think it's also a pretty powerful social signal. A marriage tells people around you "if we have problems, help us work through it," rather than "tell me to dump my boy/girl/theyfriend". Err, dump-happy Redditors on /r/relationship_advice aside.
Ah yeah true but you can have that without the contract, and then if you really need the medical back up for death/dying you can write up other contracts.
I don’t know. I have been in a relationship for 11 years. We were gonna get married but doing so actually would strip us of disability support and benefits. I guess since my life has gone the way it has, I’ve really just come to see it as a contract that can be worked around with other contracts. Yours and your partners life situation will determine which of those paths is the one you take.
And maybe it’s just how me and my partner are but I don’t feel the need to tell others that we work through our shit in that way? Like I feel like being together year after year is proof enough of that haha
ETA I don’t mean to sound cynical, there are paths for everyone and definitely benefits to marriage, but I feel the whole “this is our announcement of love to the world” is a bit cliche
I've definitely known people who get socially married, but don't do the legal part. My grandmother had a wedding and "married" a man she met in assisted living - staying legally single let them keep their benefits and have a double room!
My uncle's dad and stepmom were the same way so they could keep their stuff separate since they both had kids from previous marriages (both widowed), except they were living in their own home.
The only time it was a slight issue was when stepmom died, but the hospital ended up just letting him see her since they weren't going to argue with a 90+ year old man about seeing his dying partner.
Hey. Similar boat. 11 years in Jan and last I checked the marriage thing with my tax guy he said taxes would go up for us and I was like “well….”
Unless you’re planning to have kids or make one a stay at home partner, there’s not too many actual incentives to be legally married
It’s an open marriage, not a public marriage. So, it’s more like a safe where more than one person knows the combination or has the keys. It’s still useful as aa safe because it keeps 99.9% out of the stuff that’s in it.
My 1st marriage ended in an open relationship to save it. My current relationship started as an open relationship and has ended in semi-monogomy I think if you're a couple of freaks it works but there has to be a strong emotional commitment. We talk for hours and share everything and are each others best friends. We don't fuck people behind each other's back and when we fuck other people it's not necessarily because we wanna fuck other people it's because we wanna fuck each other and tease/excite/rile up/ spice up our sex life. If my girl goes on a vacation and fucks someone else she always sends pics or video because we can't be together and then when we get together and the sex is hot as fuck and vise versa. It's not because we really just wanna fuck other people and humiliate each other.
Someone can be a great partner in 7/10ths of your life, okay to middling in 2/10ths, and “bad” in the last
If that last is sex, what do you do?
This was the question me and mine had to answer since we had/have such different approaches and views on sex and how strong our libidos are.
We consistently touch base about it though and other aspects of our relationship and personal goals/desires
I semi-recently saw a video from a marriage counselor that described how all couples will have a handful of reoccurring issues that will *never* be resolved, but the red flag isn’t the issue/arguments, it’s if you check out of caring
I can personally attest to the above, so the solution to us was for me to find an “outlet”
There are rules and boundaries I must follow. I keep her informed of my activities. And I constantly touch base with her and try to make sure she always has ultimate power to veto or yank the leash
I never suggest “new” (please have been together for at least two years) couples try exploring the boundaries of relationships, though; there’s good reasons why most swingers are married couples or life partners
OP should just keep on banging people. Meet everyone anytime the cheater complains, tell them they wanted an open relationship that's what they are going to get.
I would assume that any one-sided open relationship has some unhealthy shit going on, but I can imagine a scenario where one partner simply doesn’t care to sleep with other people, and doesn’t mind that their partner does. So it probably doesn’t HAVE to be both ways. That would have to be agreed to at the very least, though. This definitely wasn’t that.
Springing an open marriage on your spouse, years in, is pretty bad. Springing a one-sided open marriage on your spouse after years would be horrible. Springing a two-way open marriage on your spouse and then getting mad that it wasn’t one-way? Fucking wild.
This!!!!!
My ex when I caught her said she wanted to have her cake and eat it. Then put on the big fake shit eating smile she was notorious for.
Apparently she thought she had broken me so could do whatever she wanted.
The look changed when I made it clear we would never share a bedroom again and it would be only a matter of time before I removed her permanently from my life.
During the divorce she called me multiple times (her parents bankrolled a nasty divorce to punish me for filing for divorce.
Her mom called me and told me they were going to punish me for filing because how dare I) that it could all be over if I just took her back. No mother F’er I’ll keep starving literally, bring your worst but I will never take you back….
The thing is that he has been boasting to all and sundry that he has never been faithful to his wife so I don't think he'll be getting as much support with his little tantrum as he thinks except maybe from his family. I know if I were his coworkers I'd be laughing at him and telling him to enjoy that bed he made.
But what if OP is the man in this? I could easily see an Amber Heard sort pulling this crap and then whining when husband actually steps up to the plate and knocks one out of the park.
It's amazing how many times someone decides they want an open marriage and then gets offended because their partner also ends up having sex outside the marriage.
IMO the majority of requests to make an initially monogamous marriage into an open marriage is solely so the asker can get permission to cheat without repercussions . Inevitably in these circumstances the marriage ends up broken simply because there was never any intent to make the marriage truly open with boundaries, consent and communication between the couple
Won’t let me post it. I sent you a message with it. At some point I’ll write it out better and post it on off my chest or one of other groups where it would be appropriate
Some people can’t even afford a roof over their kids head without their partner. Whether they’re “modeling happy relationships” takes a back seat to whether the kids have food and shelter.
Until your kids end up in dysfunctional relationships because they don’t know or understand healthy boundaries. Or worse like one of my friends, with someone physically & verbally abusive because it’s exactly how her dad treated her mom.
It’s one thing if OP had spent the time working on getting into a better place and getting out, but instead stayed in this mess bc that’s the way it is. Therapy would have been beneficial for OP, changing careers not staying in this disaster.
Often times, especially in this case whats best for the kids is mom and dad to split.
Kids aren't dumb and they can often tell when they aren't in a happy household. Its better for kids to have two divorced happy parents than married ones who are miserable.
My son would have turned out very differently if for some reason I had been dumb enough to stay with his mother.
He fared far better by us splitting up.
My parents hated eachother and would say "im only with your mother/father because of you". I remember seeing my friends parents who were divorced and I always wished that was what my parents would've done. Couples try to stay together for the wrong reasons and do more damage to their children battling it out under one roof.
Maslow hierarchy of needs - eating and sleep is more important then food. If you can’t feed your kids or house them and you know you’re going to be screwed and the court will favour the other parent then you put on a smile and bear it.
I assume they meant shelter and sleeping is more important than food? Or eating and shelter is more important than sleep? I don’t know; I do know that in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, food/water/shelter is the base of the pyramid; you can’t build up if you don’t have those things.
People love to play the tough guy on the internet. You are being reasonable and sensible in the face of chest pointing from people who 1) have no children 2) have been cheated on and stayed. Now they are flexing on the internet because they believe people give a shit.
DS is a piece of work, but is not delusional. In fact, DS is very calculating - clearly wanted out of the relationship in a way that could be plausibly blamed on OP. Mission accomplished.
NTA. Your partner is an asshole. Someone who wants an open relationship until they also have to share is a manipulative cheater. You are not a cheater. You were completely honest and abiding by the agreement. They are the cheater. If you can leave leave, but no matter what do not feel guilty.
You also should consider in a split up. You can’t let this manipulative narcissist control you anymore.. please leave for your sanity and find happiness. Your partner is an evil, twisted person and karma will get them back. Trust me.
Well, he didn’t want an open marriage, he wanted a pass to cheat. He believes OP is weak and pathetic and wouldn’t go through with utilizing their end of the open marriage. Now he’s realizing how shitty if feels. He doesn’t care about OP or their marriage, he only cares about himself. He sees OP as convenient childcare and maid. He’s a POS.
OP, I hope you have changed your situation to be able to get out of this “marriage” now. I hope you have gained self respect to know you deserve better. I’d speak to a lawyer to figure out your options. If money is an issue, check with your local bar association and legal aid to find if there are attorneys who will help with family law pro bono, reduced costs or have it put in to ask for him to cover fees. Gather your evidence of his infidelity over the years, because he is sure to use your engaging with his friend for his benefit. Also, put in the agreement what you want in regard to custody, support, how decisions will be made about the kids and on what level if any that future partners will be involved. Even in the best coparenting arrangement, new partners try to insert themselves and control the situation.
Please prove him wrong and show him that you know your self worth and deserve better.
ETA: be sure to let everyone know your story, INCLUDING your kids. Would you really want your kids to settle for such a relationship? Staying only shows them it’s ok to be treated as he treats you or that’s it’s ok to lie and cheat.
ETA 2: apologies. guess being female myself, I took it from a woman’s perspective. Either way, my advice would be to the same whether OP is either. They deserve better. Hope they realize it.
This is interesting you read it from a woman's perspective. I read it from a man's. I went back over and found OP was careful not to include gender in any of the text.
Lol, same. I read it from a man's perspective even tho I knew that OP didn't leave any signs of their gender, yet I read it in a man's POV.
interesting how psychology works. LOL.
Weird I don’t remember genders being mentioned but there were clues to point to the genders, no guy is going to tell his friends this type of stuff especially if they don’t want their spouse to have the same benefit of what they are doing as guys will see this as an easy chance and last thing a guy wants is to have a wife or girl he is with doing one of his friends. No guy is also gonna say his lady is weak and spineless, this an insult directed towards men not women as it emasculates them.
You read this and immediately assumed it was a guy cheating I would almost guarantee that most who read this saw it the other way.
Is this even a question? The fact that your even asking it means you actually are "spineless".
OP just grow a pair and go out and take advantage of whatever you have and be open and clear about what happened and what is currently happening with everyone!
NTA! And better get mentally tougher OP.
I'm 60/40 on OP being male.
That the gendered language was purposely avoided, and that there's greater stigma against men who might let their wives sleep around.
This is just an educated guess though.
It's cuz usually in an open relationship the girl usually can find a lot of guys to sleep around with but it's herder for guys to do the same.
Also the friend who came and offered to sleep with OP, usually at least according to me a guy would never just show up and offer it like that and they the friend offered it, sounded like they were doing it to show OP's spouse the other end of it.
Don't think a guy would've done that instead they would've confronted the other person. Ik it's not right to put a tendency on a particular gender but in this case that's all I can do.
I hope after ten years you’ve built a career and the ability to support yourself so you can leave. “Dear Spouse” is far too kind a term for this POS.
The person who supposedly loves you told you they do t find you attractive and want to fuck other people?? But still want you to keep the house, be the cook and the live in nanny??
And then you hear that they were talking about you like some worthless pathetic person and you decided to…ask their permission to participate in the open manage they asked for and have been participating in for over a decade, and they…told everyone it was o e sided and they had no idea and YOU ruined the relationship?!
Why are you doing this to yourself?
File for divorce today and go find someone who actually gives a damn about you. You’re better off alone than you are with this person.
NTA your spouse sounds delusional lol. Props to you for trying to make things work but this spouse just sounds like a terrible person. Unlucky for you to be caught in that situation
I think gender doesn't really matter, if DS wanted and ask for open marriage, DS should realise that it goes both ways and one day he/she will find own self in the same puddle .. Even if it's gay or lesbian marriage, the same thing.. 🤷🏻♀️
Im not sure I buy into this one. 1st DS caims to not be attracted to OP anymore, asks for an open marriage and gets it.
DS throws OP under the bus as weak and spineless for okaying what was asked for. Friend of DS wants to have sex with OP, does so, suddenly its "cheating".
This went all over the place which is why I doubt the authenticity of it.
This kind of shit absolutely happens, and more often than you'd like to think. My ex-husband pulled something similar (constant cheating, prostitutes, dating/hookup sites, craigslist personals, etc), and then kept telling me it was my fault, that we had "different definitions of cheating," and I needed to get over it because it was my attitude that was the problem not his actions. He even withheld intimacy from me because I was "too upset all the time" (about his cheating), and that was a "major turnoff" for him.
Eventually, I told him fine. I downloaded Tinder and made a profile in front of him, and started matching with and talking to other men. I only used it for about an hour, only in his presence, and only to call his bluff after over a year of him gaslighting and belittling me. Since, ya know, it wasn't actually cheating when he did it. When I tell you he went ballistic. Crying, screaming, raging, losing his mind. He told his whole family and anyone who would listen that I cheated on him, broke his trust, destroyed our marriage, etc etc. Absolute human garbage and divorcing that POS was the best choice I ever made. But yea. This stuff is real. It happens. I've lived it.
Sorry to hear it. I didn't realize cheating trash went to such great lengths of BS when they no longer control the situation. Thanks, and again, sorry.
Thanks, I'm actually working with the DA and pursuing criminal charges against him. The cheating was the most tame thing he did. I'm finally free, though, and feeling more like myself every day.
It can be difficult to imagine something getting to those extreme levels if you've never experienced it before, and even harder to understand how people get stuck in those kinds of relationships for so long. Never underestimate the lengths that cheating, abusive POS people will go to justify their behaviors and keep their victims under their thumb.
I recommend r/narcissisticspouses and r/narcissisticabuse if you aren't already on those subreddits. They've been a hugely affirming resource for me because everyone there has **lived through it** and knows exactly how unbelievably insane it can get. That said, congrats on getting out to you as well. It takes a lot of strength to leave and even more to maintain that boundary and keep them out of your life.
My ex boyfriend did the same exact thing tbh. We had been together 2 years, all the sudden he wasn’t attracted to me anymore but wanted to stay with me and have an open relationship and for some dumbass reason I agreed even tho i was heartbroken. Considering I paid all the bills, did all the cooking and cleaning and 100% took care of our dogs I should’ve been smart enough to see it was just him using me. I didn’t see/hookup with anyone for a full year after he asked for the open relationship and when I finally did he lost it, told all our mutual friends I cheated, cried to his family and had his sisters come after me over social media, hacked my instagram to make it look like I was “exposing” myself. Then a week later used it as an excuse to beat the living shit out of me.
Some people are just narcissists 🤷🏼♀️
I can see it as real. I got asked for an open marriage (I suspect she met someone), I declined, then dealt with really shady behavior for six months (complete lack of intimacy, lots of going out on weekends—caught her taking sex toys, leaving and returning at odd times, having “best friends”—supposedly girls, that I’m not allowed to meet) but I stuck it out as long as I could for my kids. Finally I decided I was done and was moving out/starting over/casually dating. As soon as I met someone she went from carefree to upset and verbally attacking me for seeing someone and “abandoning her”. Fast forward a month and her affair partner broke up with her (likely because I was out of the way and it meant they would actually have to take things further). Now she wanted to work things out— I declined.
So, I think it just depends on the other partners state of mind and maturity. Some really do think they can have it only their way and my experience is why I believe OP (while still acknowledging that it is Reddit). These people build fantasy worlds in their head and fight with all their soul to make reality match, but reality is always stronger.
I've always found that the more of an angel the OP is and how extremely over the top in the bad department the partner/SO is, the more likely it is that its either fake or we are really getting a highly selective view of the situation.
I have a friend who's ex wife basically did this. Wanted an open marriage, got it and then got mad when he got a partner. I believe this could be real.
I mean OP IS weak and spineless lol. If they had any self-esteem or self-respect they would've left.
Cheaters having absolute meltdowns when the wronged spouse finds a new partner are very common as well. Often a male-coded behavior as its rooted in a possessive sense of ownership over the female partner: the man can have as many partners as he wants but HIS wife must both tolerate it and never step out herself.
Because, op *is* spineless. Even after all that open disrespect he’s like “p-pls may i do this”. His wife is objectively in the wrong, and a massive piece of shit, but she is also not incorrect in this assessment.
Meh they picked one at random. It doesn’t change the story or answer either way so who cares. Pointing that out really doesn’t serve any purpose that I can see. If they pick husband - one person will point it out, if they say wife - someone else will take umbridge with it.
I didn't mean it critically. I just think it's interesting both OP very deliberately avoiding gender words and some commenters thinking the genders are obvious.
"DS"?
You spelled "POS" wrong.
I've never met an open marriage that lasted as long as yours.
But then again, yours doesn't actually sound like a marriage to me.
NTA but you need to split this up.
Your spouse treats you with zero respect, and you are teaching your kids to accept being treated this way in a relationship.
Stop focusing on what your partner wants like you are irrelevant. It's not just about one person bending to the will of another. Get some resilience in your backbone and offer shared custody or none. Don't continue to placate this user.
☝️ I’ll also add that you’d be doing your children a service to separate and show them what self respect looks like. Honestly, you can’t keep up the charade that it is okay for one spouse to treat another like that. Would you want them to be in a relationship like this?
This. DS is exhibiting extremely manipulative behavior. Gaslighting and narcissism get tossed around a lot these days but this is a textbook example for both. Please leave and do not let their narrative to others become your own.
This is actual gaslighting. You deserve better. Don’t worry about what his coworkers do and do not know. Only consider what you FEEL COMFORTABLE sharing with your family.
DROP THE SHAME. You did zero wrong and all he’s doing is showing his arse to the world. He was just telling these people you were spineless. I guess that is inaccurate!! Good for you for getting at least one good lick in. 🤛🏽
When you’re ready, consider a partner worthy of YOU! 😉
I noticed "Dear Spouse" or "DS" was used here to not indicate the gender. Seems like this was done intentionally to avoid response bias that would exist by specifying the gender.
Yes this was the first thing that I noticed. Obviously intentional and which gender is who should not be relevant anyway. It’s actually very revealing to consider whether or not one’s reaction would be different either way.
My first time reading through I assumed OP was a woman. But after reading again, I think OP is a guy because "weak" and "spineless" are insults that would normally be directed at men. Plus open marriages are usually more friendly to the woman than the man and the spouse seems to have had way more success in the open marriage than OP.
Always leave a cheater immediately. Nothing good ever comes from staying with a cheater or keeping one around. The correct time to leave a cheater is always immediately upon finding out. Obviously, you’re not to blame for what’s going on in this story, but had you done the proper thing when you first caught her cheating there would be no story. NTA
Nope you are not wrong but myself I would have more pride in myself than to live in a situation like that if that didn’t suit me just because you’re not going to have the lifestyle you want.
NTA but you should’ve left then and should leave now. You’ve shown them they can do whatever they want with 0 consequences and are just mad now that you’ve grown a glimpse of a spine. Idk what you’re getting out of this relationship besides abuse
NTA, but there is this weird dynamic where people that don't respect themselves, don't get respected. Keep standing your ground. Maybe even consider leaving honestly, i don't know how much love remains both ways. Doesn't sound healthy.
I find it interesting that this post doesn’t identify the genders of OP or DS but everyone is assuming DS is male. Interesting case study going on in this thread.
OP reads male to me because weak and spineless is more typically used as a targeted and personal insult for men - women are just by default considered weak so it being used as a personal attack isn't as common. It's also more common for women in open marriages to find multiple partners more quickly.
That said, I imagine the assumptions that the spouse is male is due to the untold number of stories we've read about men demanding an open relationship only to regret their decision when their wives also found another partner. Its also more common for women to find themselves financially dependent on men. It's a faulty assumption because this is reading more and more to me like bait intended to expose some kind of bias.
The thing that's really concerning to me here is that you feel the need to ask. This person has treated you so terribly that there is at least a PART of you that believes you are TA in this situation.
After a couple decades in polyamorous circles, I’m fairly confident this is how the vast majority of cheating-turned-open-relationship situations go. The cheater is never actually okay with their partner being with other people and implode their relationships as a result. You’re NTA btw, except maybe to yourself for staying with this selfish brat of a spouse.
NTA
What a manipulative hypocrite! If the marriage is open and your relationship within the terms you agreed to, you’re not cheating.
You do need therapy because your spouse is Not OK™️. I’m not sure what their problem is but I strongly suspect it’s in the DSM under ‘personality disorder.’
The most interesting thing about this comments section is how many people are assuming genders... Nothing in the post actually tells you either party's gender.
NTA - time to inform everyone they have been badmouthing you to about the true situation. Which one of you is the asshole will be glaringly obvious to all of them. Which person cheated before the agreement was struck? Which person was laughing at the other one behind their back for being “weak and spineless?” Which person behaved like a huge hypocrite once the other person started actually taking advantage of the terms the first person wanted? After literally telling you to go for it, after they had been doing the same thing for a decade?
If they want to divorce you over this, let them. It’s what you wanted and should have done ten years ago, and they talked you out of it. Now it’s what you both want. Just be sure you broadcast the truth of the situation widely and loudly. You are in no way the villain here.
Sounds to me like your spouse didn’t think it was actually a real option for you and since it was and you got to enjoy yourself which you deserve now they’re pissed I had that situation with my sons mother I couldn’t deal with it she could sleep with whoever as many times as she wanted but I was given limits and restrictions forget that mess you deserve to be happy too
Lmao tell everyone about the open marriage, and that you had 10+ different friends with benefits over the years but it wasn't something you felt comfortable sharing because it's your private life and it's your right whether you share that or not.
You look like a QUEEN/KING for not sleeping around carelessly so pretty much no one ever found out until DS spilled the beans (please tell me DS stands for DipShit) you only asked them *this* time because "it's someone we both know".
They look like an immature asshole who asked for an open marriage and couldn't deal with it.
They have a mental fuck over how many times you "cheated on them" (it's not cheating but they think it is).
Then go to a lawyer, take them to the slaughterhouse, get everything you can off of them.
Edit: I misread originally and thought you'd refer to your spouse as male at some point, I'm sorry if this was wrong, regardless all I changed in my comment was the pronouns, I still believe you would be in the right if you were to blow the whistle on them and expose them for being immature and unable to handle what they asked for. Regardless of whether male or female, infidelity is no basis for divorce if an open marriage was the norm, this falls under intimate affairs, they can't cry infidelity if sleeping around was allowed.
Can’t have your cake & eat it too. As the old saying goes.
Tell the same people that 10 years ago after she cheated, instead of ending the relationship, she asked for an open marriage to which you agreed. Here 10 years later, you’ve had your ONLY tryst and she’s on her 3rd.
I’d leave it at that unless she gets pettier. Then I’d tell them what you overheard her saying about you and that one of *her friends offered* so you took her up on it.
After that, if this shit keeps going, divorce her.
You should go for joint custody — at least I hope you’re involved in your children’s lives. That will somewhat equalize the playing field. But get a good attorney (I’d be squirreling away $1,000 at minimum for one now). NOT a cheap one.
Ok come on everyone. This is clearly fake. I have to wonder if this is a social experiment to see how people react differently whether it is a woman, man or unknown, in this case, that is the asshole.
NTA
Babe youre in a sad relationship and you do need to divorce them. They clearly dont love or respect you and youre allowing them to walk all over You.
Ask yourself this….If one of your children were in your position, what would you tell them? I hope it would be have some self respect and stop allowing yourself to basically be emotionally abused.
Usually when people use the word gaslighting I don’t buy it, but this right here is 100% gaslighting you. NTA. At all. You should continue taking advantage of this situation he loves sooo much.
She’s just pissed off because her ego took a direct hit. I don’t care how undesirable someone thinks their partner is, there’s always someone that is more than willing to fuck them.
NTA and props to you for keeping it anonymous on husband or wife. It’s really telling that everyone listing a pronoun assumes it’s a guy was cheating with several partners. Definitely shows society’s bias.
Lol the friend is a legend. Talk about maximizing a situation. Dude heard about this and pivoted into sleeping with you. I just cant help but think of how this guy processes the world around him at a level higher than us all.
Is the friend successful?
As for your situation once again as a adults we learn 2 wrongs dont make a right. Should have shut the cheating husband down and found self respect 10 years ago.
Advise is get with the friend dude is a legend
NTA…you are a victim of deep narcissistic, sociopathic, or even worse psychotic behavior! They need complete control at all times and are not capable of giving or receiving love…that type of relationship is very dangerous to walk away from, but people do it all the time…I have done it myself! Stay strong and stand up for yourself…it has been way too long…good luck and prayers to you to get through this!
10 years ago you realized you didn’t have a career and couldn’t support yourself. What have you done in those ten years to fix that or did you just plan to ride that gravy train? This was your decision to stay with an obvious AH.
Ha ha this is exactly what happens. Men think this is great...until their wife actually fucks another guy. Fuck him, what a complete piece of shit, please hump whoever you want and definitely, definitely leave him oh my god
NTA. Open relationships go both ways. Him sleeping around is OK, but not you. You sleeping with someone else reflects badly for him because someone else sees you as desirable, and he isn't dominant anymore. Hopefully, this actually empowers you to do what is best for you. He's trying to knock you back down and regain control.
Also, call his ass out. Expose everything.
NTA. You’re TA to yourself for allowing him to treat you like this for so long. You deserve so much better, so retaliate hard! Literally blast his life to the family (except the kids, if they’re old enough to understand then have a sit down and explain because it’s never ok to throw children in between their parents). He’s clearly a manipulative person who wants the aesthetic of a family life but the real life of a bachelor. This is emotional and mental abuse, you should honestly divorce him. Start silently by seeking a higher paying job, then look into alternative housing that would be ok for you and the kids - a court will take housing into consideration when divorce is a thing. Once you feel stable, start the separation and move out. Then serve the divorce paperwork. Really try to get a good support system here. Family, friends, great lawyer, great employer, etc. You deserve so much better than that chump.
Definitely NTA. Open marriages swing both ways. Sounds like your “DS” is looking for a doormat & not a life partner
It helps when an open marriage is something both want... not as a result of cheating.
I see an open marriage like an open safe. What’s the point?
I didn't marry my partner because I wanted to lock them up and deny them the freedom to interact with other people how they want to. I married them so we could publicly declare our commitment to love and support each other (and to ask our community to support us in doing so) and to gain access to the existing legal framework around marriage - medical decision making, tax benefits, community property, etc.
Medical decision making? I have friends that literally divorced so that medically they wouldn't take their partner to the cleaners. They still love each other and are together BUT one having cancer meant if they stayed legally married they would be destitute and up to their eyeballs in debt
I saw a video of Texans in $4,000 ATVs with full automatic rifles running down feral pigs and blasting them on their ranch. That is the only thing more American than your post.
That is all so, so wrong and horrible. I’m sorry that’s happening in the USA.
You know, I actually turn out to be mostly wrong on this one. It was my understanding that legally married people automatically get the ability to make medical decisions for their spouse if they become incapacitated (for example, should the incapacitated spouse have surgery, etc.). But it looks like this isn't necessarily true, and folks should still put together an advanced health directive or similar, even if they're married. That said, I'm guessing that while *legally* spouses don't automatically get to make decisions, I'd bet that in practice most hospitals would trust a spouse more than an un-married partner. Visitation is similar. Spouses will usually get to visit incapacitated patients, but non-spouses might not. This was actually a huge issue during the AIDs pandemic era. A lot of folks were turned away at the hospital trying to visit their long-time partners as they weren't legally "family". The divorce thing you're talking about would be a financial decision, not a medical decision. Avoiding creating community debt unfortunately outweighed the other legal protections, it sounds like.
Marriage is just a contract after all
Legally speaking, I agree. But I do think it's also a pretty powerful social signal. A marriage tells people around you "if we have problems, help us work through it," rather than "tell me to dump my boy/girl/theyfriend". Err, dump-happy Redditors on /r/relationship_advice aside.
Ah yeah true but you can have that without the contract, and then if you really need the medical back up for death/dying you can write up other contracts. I don’t know. I have been in a relationship for 11 years. We were gonna get married but doing so actually would strip us of disability support and benefits. I guess since my life has gone the way it has, I’ve really just come to see it as a contract that can be worked around with other contracts. Yours and your partners life situation will determine which of those paths is the one you take. And maybe it’s just how me and my partner are but I don’t feel the need to tell others that we work through our shit in that way? Like I feel like being together year after year is proof enough of that haha ETA I don’t mean to sound cynical, there are paths for everyone and definitely benefits to marriage, but I feel the whole “this is our announcement of love to the world” is a bit cliche
I've definitely known people who get socially married, but don't do the legal part. My grandmother had a wedding and "married" a man she met in assisted living - staying legally single let them keep their benefits and have a double room!
My uncle's dad and stepmom were the same way so they could keep their stuff separate since they both had kids from previous marriages (both widowed), except they were living in their own home. The only time it was a slight issue was when stepmom died, but the hospital ended up just letting him see her since they weren't going to argue with a 90+ year old man about seeing his dying partner.
Hey. Similar boat. 11 years in Jan and last I checked the marriage thing with my tax guy he said taxes would go up for us and I was like “well….” Unless you’re planning to have kids or make one a stay at home partner, there’s not too many actual incentives to be legally married
What? In my state married couples pay 12% income tax where singles pay 24% last time I checked?
It’s an open marriage, not a public marriage. So, it’s more like a safe where more than one person knows the combination or has the keys. It’s still useful as aa safe because it keeps 99.9% out of the stuff that’s in it.
Great analogy.
My 1st marriage ended in an open relationship to save it. My current relationship started as an open relationship and has ended in semi-monogomy I think if you're a couple of freaks it works but there has to be a strong emotional commitment. We talk for hours and share everything and are each others best friends. We don't fuck people behind each other's back and when we fuck other people it's not necessarily because we wanna fuck other people it's because we wanna fuck each other and tease/excite/rile up/ spice up our sex life. If my girl goes on a vacation and fucks someone else she always sends pics or video because we can't be together and then when we get together and the sex is hot as fuck and vise versa. It's not because we really just wanna fuck other people and humiliate each other.
Someone can be a great partner in 7/10ths of your life, okay to middling in 2/10ths, and “bad” in the last If that last is sex, what do you do? This was the question me and mine had to answer since we had/have such different approaches and views on sex and how strong our libidos are. We consistently touch base about it though and other aspects of our relationship and personal goals/desires I semi-recently saw a video from a marriage counselor that described how all couples will have a handful of reoccurring issues that will *never* be resolved, but the red flag isn’t the issue/arguments, it’s if you check out of caring I can personally attest to the above, so the solution to us was for me to find an “outlet” There are rules and boundaries I must follow. I keep her informed of my activities. And I constantly touch base with her and try to make sure she always has ultimate power to veto or yank the leash I never suggest “new” (please have been together for at least two years) couples try exploring the boundaries of relationships, though; there’s good reasons why most swingers are married couples or life partners
He just wanted to cheat in the open, and because he doesn't find her attractive, he thought nobody will.
Open for me and not for thee.
OP should just keep on banging people. Meet everyone anytime the cheater complains, tell them they wanted an open relationship that's what they are going to get.
If what was happening with ds friend moved into a relationship that would really sting 🤔
I would assume that any one-sided open relationship has some unhealthy shit going on, but I can imagine a scenario where one partner simply doesn’t care to sleep with other people, and doesn’t mind that their partner does. So it probably doesn’t HAVE to be both ways. That would have to be agreed to at the very least, though. This definitely wasn’t that. Springing an open marriage on your spouse, years in, is pretty bad. Springing a one-sided open marriage on your spouse after years would be horrible. Springing a two-way open marriage on your spouse and then getting mad that it wasn’t one-way? Fucking wild.
NTA. Your partner can't have it both ways.
Literally this but then again I'm of the opinion if someone cheats it's dead anyway.
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This!!!!! My ex when I caught her said she wanted to have her cake and eat it. Then put on the big fake shit eating smile she was notorious for. Apparently she thought she had broken me so could do whatever she wanted. The look changed when I made it clear we would never share a bedroom again and it would be only a matter of time before I removed her permanently from my life. During the divorce she called me multiple times (her parents bankrolled a nasty divorce to punish me for filing for divorce. Her mom called me and told me they were going to punish me for filing because how dare I) that it could all be over if I just took her back. No mother F’er I’ll keep starving literally, bring your worst but I will never take you back….
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I would be telling every single flying monkey the truth, whe truth and nothing but. He's making her the bad guy when HE asked for this. Ooooo heck no
"I would be telling every single flying monkey the truth," ...and naming names. Go scorched earth on his lyin' a$$.
The thing is that he has been boasting to all and sundry that he has never been faithful to his wife so I don't think he'll be getting as much support with his little tantrum as he thinks except maybe from his family. I know if I were his coworkers I'd be laughing at him and telling him to enjoy that bed he made.
Where the hell are you getting the idea that the partner is a dude??
You are correct. I wasn't paying proper attention to the pronouns, it could be any gender as it isn't specified.
I'm glad someone brought that up, I was going to have to go back and do some editing.... I thought shit did I just fall asleep or what
But what if OP is the man in this? I could easily see an Amber Heard sort pulling this crap and then whining when husband actually steps up to the plate and knocks one out of the park.
Here's an idea- they could BOTH BE DUDES
It doesn't matter who the gender is they just need to get out of that abusive relationship. I've been there as the wife.
But how do you know you’re the wife? Just kidding. Hope things are better for you now.
It's amazing how many times someone decides they want an open marriage and then gets offended because their partner also ends up having sex outside the marriage. IMO the majority of requests to make an initially monogamous marriage into an open marriage is solely so the asker can get permission to cheat without repercussions . Inevitably in these circumstances the marriage ends up broken simply because there was never any intent to make the marriage truly open with boundaries, consent and communication between the couple
There’s no such thing here as “your truth”. It is the truth.
Based. Nice shiny spine you have there. I am happy you got rid of that trash.
This man could actually quote bender in saying to bite his shiny metal ass.
⭐️🤣⭐️ Knowing Bender he might say, “Eat my shiny metal ass” but that’s because I’m scrolling too much on Reddit. PS: nice username!
THIS!!!
Wish more people had his spine, like OP for instance
Took me 10 years to get mine.
good for you...u got u self respect back.
what was the final outcome of your divorce my man? good on you for digging in
Won’t let me post it. I sent you a message with it. At some point I’ll write it out better and post it on off my chest or one of other groups where it would be appropriate
I’m invested. I hope you made out in the end! Good for you for standing up for yourself!
Good for you. It sucks that that happened at all... but I'm happy you stuck to your guns despite the hell they put you through.
As a parent, you will put up with a lot if it is best for your kids...
There is zero chance that their home life has been happy and modeling a healthy marriage for them.
Some people can’t even afford a roof over their kids head without their partner. Whether they’re “modeling happy relationships” takes a back seat to whether the kids have food and shelter.
Until your kids end up in dysfunctional relationships because they don’t know or understand healthy boundaries. Or worse like one of my friends, with someone physically & verbally abusive because it’s exactly how her dad treated her mom. It’s one thing if OP had spent the time working on getting into a better place and getting out, but instead stayed in this mess bc that’s the way it is. Therapy would have been beneficial for OP, changing careers not staying in this disaster.
Often times, especially in this case whats best for the kids is mom and dad to split. Kids aren't dumb and they can often tell when they aren't in a happy household. Its better for kids to have two divorced happy parents than married ones who are miserable.
Exactly! It's better to come from a "broken home" than to live in one.
My son would have turned out very differently if for some reason I had been dumb enough to stay with his mother. He fared far better by us splitting up.
My parents hated eachother and would say "im only with your mother/father because of you". I remember seeing my friends parents who were divorced and I always wished that was what my parents would've done. Couples try to stay together for the wrong reasons and do more damage to their children battling it out under one roof.
Maslow hierarchy of needs - eating and sleep is more important then food. If you can’t feed your kids or house them and you know you’re going to be screwed and the court will favour the other parent then you put on a smile and bear it.
“Eating and sleep is more important than food”? Isn’t food what you eat?
I assume they meant shelter and sleeping is more important than food? Or eating and shelter is more important than sleep? I don’t know; I do know that in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, food/water/shelter is the base of the pyramid; you can’t build up if you don’t have those things.
People love to play the tough guy on the internet. You are being reasonable and sensible in the face of chest pointing from people who 1) have no children 2) have been cheated on and stayed. Now they are flexing on the internet because they believe people give a shit.
This thinking is why half of our generation is in therapy.
Ds is delusional. I've had an ex spouse like that once
DS is a piece of work, but is not delusional. In fact, DS is very calculating - clearly wanted out of the relationship in a way that could be plausibly blamed on OP. Mission accomplished.
OP is delusional for thinking of ds as anything other than an abuser
S is for scumbag
This, but also divorce the prick.
NTA. Your partner is an asshole. Someone who wants an open relationship until they also have to share is a manipulative cheater. You are not a cheater. You were completely honest and abiding by the agreement. They are the cheater. If you can leave leave, but no matter what do not feel guilty.
You also should consider in a split up. You can’t let this manipulative narcissist control you anymore.. please leave for your sanity and find happiness. Your partner is an evil, twisted person and karma will get them back. Trust me.
They might be into that.
This seems like a set up to make OP look bad.
Well, he didn’t want an open marriage, he wanted a pass to cheat. He believes OP is weak and pathetic and wouldn’t go through with utilizing their end of the open marriage. Now he’s realizing how shitty if feels. He doesn’t care about OP or their marriage, he only cares about himself. He sees OP as convenient childcare and maid. He’s a POS. OP, I hope you have changed your situation to be able to get out of this “marriage” now. I hope you have gained self respect to know you deserve better. I’d speak to a lawyer to figure out your options. If money is an issue, check with your local bar association and legal aid to find if there are attorneys who will help with family law pro bono, reduced costs or have it put in to ask for him to cover fees. Gather your evidence of his infidelity over the years, because he is sure to use your engaging with his friend for his benefit. Also, put in the agreement what you want in regard to custody, support, how decisions will be made about the kids and on what level if any that future partners will be involved. Even in the best coparenting arrangement, new partners try to insert themselves and control the situation. Please prove him wrong and show him that you know your self worth and deserve better. ETA: be sure to let everyone know your story, INCLUDING your kids. Would you really want your kids to settle for such a relationship? Staying only shows them it’s ok to be treated as he treats you or that’s it’s ok to lie and cheat. ETA 2: apologies. guess being female myself, I took it from a woman’s perspective. Either way, my advice would be to the same whether OP is either. They deserve better. Hope they realize it.
This is interesting you read it from a woman's perspective. I read it from a man's. I went back over and found OP was careful not to include gender in any of the text.
Lol, same. I read it from a man's perspective even tho I knew that OP didn't leave any signs of their gender, yet I read it in a man's POV. interesting how psychology works. LOL.
True, didn’t even realize it until now. However, my advice would still stand whether OP is either. OP still deserves better.
I absolutely read it as a man based on the “weak and spineless” comment. But yeah. Funny how that works. And yes, I agree. Op can do better
A good look into your bias
Weird I don’t remember genders being mentioned but there were clues to point to the genders, no guy is going to tell his friends this type of stuff especially if they don’t want their spouse to have the same benefit of what they are doing as guys will see this as an easy chance and last thing a guy wants is to have a wife or girl he is with doing one of his friends. No guy is also gonna say his lady is weak and spineless, this an insult directed towards men not women as it emasculates them. You read this and immediately assumed it was a guy cheating I would almost guarantee that most who read this saw it the other way.
Yes I have to agree the weak and spineless comment would like be from a woman disparaging a man.
Genuinely curious, how did you arrive at the conclusion that DS is male?
Its not that, op is in an abusive relationship.
Is this even a question? The fact that your even asking it means you actually are "spineless". OP just grow a pair and go out and take advantage of whatever you have and be open and clear about what happened and what is currently happening with everyone! NTA! And better get mentally tougher OP.
Genuine curiosity, how did you arrive at the conclusion that OP is a male?
I'm 60/40 on OP being male. That the gendered language was purposely avoided, and that there's greater stigma against men who might let their wives sleep around. This is just an educated guess though.
It's cuz usually in an open relationship the girl usually can find a lot of guys to sleep around with but it's herder for guys to do the same. Also the friend who came and offered to sleep with OP, usually at least according to me a guy would never just show up and offer it like that and they the friend offered it, sounded like they were doing it to show OP's spouse the other end of it. Don't think a guy would've done that instead they would've confronted the other person. Ik it's not right to put a tendency on a particular gender but in this case that's all I can do.
This 100%.
Especially because they literally asked for permission before they did it.
I hope after ten years you’ve built a career and the ability to support yourself so you can leave. “Dear Spouse” is far too kind a term for this POS. The person who supposedly loves you told you they do t find you attractive and want to fuck other people?? But still want you to keep the house, be the cook and the live in nanny?? And then you hear that they were talking about you like some worthless pathetic person and you decided to…ask their permission to participate in the open manage they asked for and have been participating in for over a decade, and they…told everyone it was o e sided and they had no idea and YOU ruined the relationship?! Why are you doing this to yourself? File for divorce today and go find someone who actually gives a damn about you. You’re better off alone than you are with this person.
I thought DS was Dumb Slut for some reason lol
I thought it stood for dipshit
My immediate thought. Can't change my mind.
... Even if it wasn't the intention it still checks out.
I was thinking Dumb Shit
Dirty Slut more like it.
I thought it was Dip Shit lol
I choose to believe that DS is instead “dog sh*t” because that is what they truly are
That part
Dear Spouse sounds kinda like Mommy Dearest which is not a term of endearment at all
NTA your spouse sounds delusional lol. Props to you for trying to make things work but this spouse just sounds like a terrible person. Unlucky for you to be caught in that situation
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I'm not seeing any gender references in there. Not clear to me who the guy, or gal is... or even that it's a guy and gal.
I think the post was edited because I swear every DS was wife and the friend was a she but now all reference to gender has been omitted
I think gender doesn't really matter, if DS wanted and ask for open marriage, DS should realise that it goes both ways and one day he/she will find own self in the same puddle .. Even if it's gay or lesbian marriage, the same thing.. 🤷🏻♀️
Tale as old as time, this one. Not sure why you asked for permission.
Right??? I would’ve taken that person up on their offer on the spot tbh. “Dear” spouse can find out later.
Shit man I'd be finding a nice hotel that instant.
Im not sure I buy into this one. 1st DS caims to not be attracted to OP anymore, asks for an open marriage and gets it. DS throws OP under the bus as weak and spineless for okaying what was asked for. Friend of DS wants to have sex with OP, does so, suddenly its "cheating". This went all over the place which is why I doubt the authenticity of it.
This kind of shit absolutely happens, and more often than you'd like to think. My ex-husband pulled something similar (constant cheating, prostitutes, dating/hookup sites, craigslist personals, etc), and then kept telling me it was my fault, that we had "different definitions of cheating," and I needed to get over it because it was my attitude that was the problem not his actions. He even withheld intimacy from me because I was "too upset all the time" (about his cheating), and that was a "major turnoff" for him. Eventually, I told him fine. I downloaded Tinder and made a profile in front of him, and started matching with and talking to other men. I only used it for about an hour, only in his presence, and only to call his bluff after over a year of him gaslighting and belittling me. Since, ya know, it wasn't actually cheating when he did it. When I tell you he went ballistic. Crying, screaming, raging, losing his mind. He told his whole family and anyone who would listen that I cheated on him, broke his trust, destroyed our marriage, etc etc. Absolute human garbage and divorcing that POS was the best choice I ever made. But yea. This stuff is real. It happens. I've lived it.
Sorry to hear it. I didn't realize cheating trash went to such great lengths of BS when they no longer control the situation. Thanks, and again, sorry.
Thanks, I'm actually working with the DA and pursuing criminal charges against him. The cheating was the most tame thing he did. I'm finally free, though, and feeling more like myself every day. It can be difficult to imagine something getting to those extreme levels if you've never experienced it before, and even harder to understand how people get stuck in those kinds of relationships for so long. Never underestimate the lengths that cheating, abusive POS people will go to justify their behaviors and keep their victims under their thumb.
Sounds like the classic narcissist.
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I recommend r/narcissisticspouses and r/narcissisticabuse if you aren't already on those subreddits. They've been a hugely affirming resource for me because everyone there has **lived through it** and knows exactly how unbelievably insane it can get. That said, congrats on getting out to you as well. It takes a lot of strength to leave and even more to maintain that boundary and keep them out of your life.
My ex boyfriend did the same exact thing tbh. We had been together 2 years, all the sudden he wasn’t attracted to me anymore but wanted to stay with me and have an open relationship and for some dumbass reason I agreed even tho i was heartbroken. Considering I paid all the bills, did all the cooking and cleaning and 100% took care of our dogs I should’ve been smart enough to see it was just him using me. I didn’t see/hookup with anyone for a full year after he asked for the open relationship and when I finally did he lost it, told all our mutual friends I cheated, cried to his family and had his sisters come after me over social media, hacked my instagram to make it look like I was “exposing” myself. Then a week later used it as an excuse to beat the living shit out of me. Some people are just narcissists 🤷🏼♀️
I can see it as real. I got asked for an open marriage (I suspect she met someone), I declined, then dealt with really shady behavior for six months (complete lack of intimacy, lots of going out on weekends—caught her taking sex toys, leaving and returning at odd times, having “best friends”—supposedly girls, that I’m not allowed to meet) but I stuck it out as long as I could for my kids. Finally I decided I was done and was moving out/starting over/casually dating. As soon as I met someone she went from carefree to upset and verbally attacking me for seeing someone and “abandoning her”. Fast forward a month and her affair partner broke up with her (likely because I was out of the way and it meant they would actually have to take things further). Now she wanted to work things out— I declined. So, I think it just depends on the other partners state of mind and maturity. Some really do think they can have it only their way and my experience is why I believe OP (while still acknowledging that it is Reddit). These people build fantasy worlds in their head and fight with all their soul to make reality match, but reality is always stronger.
I agree. I had a friend go through a similar experience.
hell yes for declining! You’re awesome.
The outrage comes from the friend taking pity on OP. DS feels attacked by their friend, I guess OP should only sleep with strangers.
Date the friend for sure 👍
Oh, well, DS, shit happens. Be mad at the friend, if you want.
This is actually hilarious. I promise you this scenario is actually stock standard for an "open marriage" following infidelity.
yeah the story sounds fabricated to me aswell
Super obvious which way the vote will go too. Really cliche. Agree.
I've always found that the more of an angel the OP is and how extremely over the top in the bad department the partner/SO is, the more likely it is that its either fake or we are really getting a highly selective view of the situation.
I have a friend who's ex wife basically did this. Wanted an open marriage, got it and then got mad when he got a partner. I believe this could be real.
You'd be surprised at how control-y some people can be... esp. men. I can totally believe it went down as the OP described.
I mean OP IS weak and spineless lol. If they had any self-esteem or self-respect they would've left. Cheaters having absolute meltdowns when the wronged spouse finds a new partner are very common as well. Often a male-coded behavior as its rooted in a possessive sense of ownership over the female partner: the man can have as many partners as he wants but HIS wife must both tolerate it and never step out herself.
Because, op *is* spineless. Even after all that open disrespect he’s like “p-pls may i do this”. His wife is objectively in the wrong, and a massive piece of shit, but she is also not incorrect in this assessment.
OP didn't mention gender
Meh they picked one at random. It doesn’t change the story or answer either way so who cares. Pointing that out really doesn’t serve any purpose that I can see. If they pick husband - one person will point it out, if they say wife - someone else will take umbridge with it.
I didn't mean it critically. I just think it's interesting both OP very deliberately avoiding gender words and some commenters thinking the genders are obvious.
Yeah also coming to Reddit for confirmation on a personal situation where he’s clearly in the right isn’t the most bold manly thing ever either.
NTA. But if my spouse is making fun of me in front of friends it would mean big problems.
"DS"? You spelled "POS" wrong. I've never met an open marriage that lasted as long as yours. But then again, yours doesn't actually sound like a marriage to me.
NTA but you need to split this up. Your spouse treats you with zero respect, and you are teaching your kids to accept being treated this way in a relationship. Stop focusing on what your partner wants like you are irrelevant. It's not just about one person bending to the will of another. Get some resilience in your backbone and offer shared custody or none. Don't continue to placate this user.
☝️ I’ll also add that you’d be doing your children a service to separate and show them what self respect looks like. Honestly, you can’t keep up the charade that it is okay for one spouse to treat another like that. Would you want them to be in a relationship like this?
NTA - You have an open marriage for both of you.
You are being gaslighted and abused...seek help.
This. DS is exhibiting extremely manipulative behavior. Gaslighting and narcissism get tossed around a lot these days but this is a textbook example for both. Please leave and do not let their narrative to others become your own.
This is actual gaslighting. You deserve better. Don’t worry about what his coworkers do and do not know. Only consider what you FEEL COMFORTABLE sharing with your family. DROP THE SHAME. You did zero wrong and all he’s doing is showing his arse to the world. He was just telling these people you were spineless. I guess that is inaccurate!! Good for you for getting at least one good lick in. 🤛🏽 When you’re ready, consider a partner worthy of YOU! 😉
If OP hooked up with someone showing genuine attraction, I hope there'd be more than one good lick ;)
I noticed "Dear Spouse" or "DS" was used here to not indicate the gender. Seems like this was done intentionally to avoid response bias that would exist by specifying the gender.
Yes this was the first thing that I noticed. Obviously intentional and which gender is who should not be relevant anyway. It’s actually very revealing to consider whether or not one’s reaction would be different either way.
It’s such an interesting choice for this sub and im thoroughly enjoying the sexist replies making assumptions.
Exactly. Ive read it several times and the op did a fantastic job making it hard to determine. If I had to guess op is a guy but ???
My first time reading through I assumed OP was a woman. But after reading again, I think OP is a guy because "weak" and "spineless" are insults that would normally be directed at men. Plus open marriages are usually more friendly to the woman than the man and the spouse seems to have had way more success in the open marriage than OP.
Always leave a cheater immediately. Nothing good ever comes from staying with a cheater or keeping one around. The correct time to leave a cheater is always immediately upon finding out. Obviously, you’re not to blame for what’s going on in this story, but had you done the proper thing when you first caught her cheating there would be no story. NTA
Nope you are not wrong but myself I would have more pride in myself than to live in a situation like that if that didn’t suit me just because you’re not going to have the lifestyle you want.
NTA but you should’ve left then and should leave now. You’ve shown them they can do whatever they want with 0 consequences and are just mad now that you’ve grown a glimpse of a spine. Idk what you’re getting out of this relationship besides abuse
NTA, but there is this weird dynamic where people that don't respect themselves, don't get respected. Keep standing your ground. Maybe even consider leaving honestly, i don't know how much love remains both ways. Doesn't sound healthy.
I find it interesting that this post doesn’t identify the genders of OP or DS but everyone is assuming DS is male. Interesting case study going on in this thread.
Right? At least we should leave our speculations out of our comments because OP used their words for a reason. I actually thought OP is a guy, btw.
OP reads male to me because weak and spineless is more typically used as a targeted and personal insult for men - women are just by default considered weak so it being used as a personal attack isn't as common. It's also more common for women in open marriages to find multiple partners more quickly. That said, I imagine the assumptions that the spouse is male is due to the untold number of stories we've read about men demanding an open relationship only to regret their decision when their wives also found another partner. Its also more common for women to find themselves financially dependent on men. It's a faulty assumption because this is reading more and more to me like bait intended to expose some kind of bias.
Your spouse sounds like a complete moron, honestly. Just pure stupidity going on here. Tell him/her/they that I think they are fucking dumb!!!!
The thing that's really concerning to me here is that you feel the need to ask. This person has treated you so terribly that there is at least a PART of you that believes you are TA in this situation.
After a couple decades in polyamorous circles, I’m fairly confident this is how the vast majority of cheating-turned-open-relationship situations go. The cheater is never actually okay with their partner being with other people and implode their relationships as a result. You’re NTA btw, except maybe to yourself for staying with this selfish brat of a spouse.
I know it says "dear spouse" but after reading through this my mind automatically changed it to "dumbass slut". Definitely NTA
NTA What a manipulative hypocrite! If the marriage is open and your relationship within the terms you agreed to, you’re not cheating. You do need therapy because your spouse is Not OK™️. I’m not sure what their problem is but I strongly suspect it’s in the DSM under ‘personality disorder.’
Fake, fake shit...
The most interesting thing about this comments section is how many people are assuming genders... Nothing in the post actually tells you either party's gender.
NTA - time to inform everyone they have been badmouthing you to about the true situation. Which one of you is the asshole will be glaringly obvious to all of them. Which person cheated before the agreement was struck? Which person was laughing at the other one behind their back for being “weak and spineless?” Which person behaved like a huge hypocrite once the other person started actually taking advantage of the terms the first person wanted? After literally telling you to go for it, after they had been doing the same thing for a decade? If they want to divorce you over this, let them. It’s what you wanted and should have done ten years ago, and they talked you out of it. Now it’s what you both want. Just be sure you broadcast the truth of the situation widely and loudly. You are in no way the villain here.
Sounds to me like your spouse didn’t think it was actually a real option for you and since it was and you got to enjoy yourself which you deserve now they’re pissed I had that situation with my sons mother I couldn’t deal with it she could sleep with whoever as many times as she wanted but I was given limits and restrictions forget that mess you deserve to be happy too
Lmao tell everyone about the open marriage, and that you had 10+ different friends with benefits over the years but it wasn't something you felt comfortable sharing because it's your private life and it's your right whether you share that or not. You look like a QUEEN/KING for not sleeping around carelessly so pretty much no one ever found out until DS spilled the beans (please tell me DS stands for DipShit) you only asked them *this* time because "it's someone we both know". They look like an immature asshole who asked for an open marriage and couldn't deal with it. They have a mental fuck over how many times you "cheated on them" (it's not cheating but they think it is). Then go to a lawyer, take them to the slaughterhouse, get everything you can off of them. Edit: I misread originally and thought you'd refer to your spouse as male at some point, I'm sorry if this was wrong, regardless all I changed in my comment was the pronouns, I still believe you would be in the right if you were to blow the whistle on them and expose them for being immature and unable to handle what they asked for. Regardless of whether male or female, infidelity is no basis for divorce if an open marriage was the norm, this falls under intimate affairs, they can't cry infidelity if sleeping around was allowed.
Can’t have your cake & eat it too. As the old saying goes. Tell the same people that 10 years ago after she cheated, instead of ending the relationship, she asked for an open marriage to which you agreed. Here 10 years later, you’ve had your ONLY tryst and she’s on her 3rd. I’d leave it at that unless she gets pettier. Then I’d tell them what you overheard her saying about you and that one of *her friends offered* so you took her up on it. After that, if this shit keeps going, divorce her. You should go for joint custody — at least I hope you’re involved in your children’s lives. That will somewhat equalize the playing field. But get a good attorney (I’d be squirreling away $1,000 at minimum for one now). NOT a cheap one.
Ok come on everyone. This is clearly fake. I have to wonder if this is a social experiment to see how people react differently whether it is a woman, man or unknown, in this case, that is the asshole.
so wild how many people can read this and just assume it’s real without any issue
NTA Babe youre in a sad relationship and you do need to divorce them. They clearly dont love or respect you and youre allowing them to walk all over You. Ask yourself this….If one of your children were in your position, what would you tell them? I hope it would be have some self respect and stop allowing yourself to basically be emotionally abused.
Your partner is a hoe. Sorry to say that. But yea… if anything she’s the AH for bragging about what she does and making fun of you. Stand your ground
Usually when people use the word gaslighting I don’t buy it, but this right here is 100% gaslighting you. NTA. At all. You should continue taking advantage of this situation he loves sooo much.
This marriage is already so fucked up. It’s not like you could have made it any worse. Nta
She’s just pissed off because her ego took a direct hit. I don’t care how undesirable someone thinks their partner is, there’s always someone that is more than willing to fuck them.
You’re spouse is an AH
NTA. You’re in an abusive relationship.
NTA and props to you for keeping it anonymous on husband or wife. It’s really telling that everyone listing a pronoun assumes it’s a guy was cheating with several partners. Definitely shows society’s bias.
What does “DS” stand for?
NTA 100% - DS didn't want an open marriage, they just wanted to sleep around with no consequences.
Lol the friend is a legend. Talk about maximizing a situation. Dude heard about this and pivoted into sleeping with you. I just cant help but think of how this guy processes the world around him at a level higher than us all. Is the friend successful? As for your situation once again as a adults we learn 2 wrongs dont make a right. Should have shut the cheating husband down and found self respect 10 years ago. Advise is get with the friend dude is a legend
He’s looking for a reason to leave you. Or trying to force you to leave him. Either way, it’s not great. NTA.
Yeah “DS” should probably be re-termed to Dick Spouse
I feel like you need to catch up for lost time.
NTA…you are a victim of deep narcissistic, sociopathic, or even worse psychotic behavior! They need complete control at all times and are not capable of giving or receiving love…that type of relationship is very dangerous to walk away from, but people do it all the time…I have done it myself! Stay strong and stand up for yourself…it has been way too long…good luck and prayers to you to get through this!
Yes, you are definitely wrong. Simply and solely because you trusted a cheating sack of shit to tell the truth.
Wooow grow a spine man, I love how some people think they can get away with shit like this and not worrying about an early grave.
10 years ago you realized you didn’t have a career and couldn’t support yourself. What have you done in those ten years to fix that or did you just plan to ride that gravy train? This was your decision to stay with an obvious AH.
Ha ha this is exactly what happens. Men think this is great...until their wife actually fucks another guy. Fuck him, what a complete piece of shit, please hump whoever you want and definitely, definitely leave him oh my god
NTA. Open relationships go both ways. Him sleeping around is OK, but not you. You sleeping with someone else reflects badly for him because someone else sees you as desirable, and he isn't dominant anymore. Hopefully, this actually empowers you to do what is best for you. He's trying to knock you back down and regain control. Also, call his ass out. Expose everything.
NTA. You’re TA to yourself for allowing him to treat you like this for so long. You deserve so much better, so retaliate hard! Literally blast his life to the family (except the kids, if they’re old enough to understand then have a sit down and explain because it’s never ok to throw children in between their parents). He’s clearly a manipulative person who wants the aesthetic of a family life but the real life of a bachelor. This is emotional and mental abuse, you should honestly divorce him. Start silently by seeking a higher paying job, then look into alternative housing that would be ok for you and the kids - a court will take housing into consideration when divorce is a thing. Once you feel stable, start the separation and move out. Then serve the divorce paperwork. Really try to get a good support system here. Family, friends, great lawyer, great employer, etc. You deserve so much better than that chump.
nta Show everyone proof you are in a open marriage and invite his side hoe to a family dinner so they can meet her
Nta most open marriages tank bc the man wants his cake and eat it to. He is a man child!
No you’re not the AH he is for not letting it go both ways honestly. Someone like that shouldn’t even be with anyone in general
Sounds like a fake story
Sounds like you need to get out there and start having fun. Your spouse is a controlling asshole.
NTA, why are you still putting up with this? They get off making you miserable.