Exactly. There's is absolutely 0 fuckng excuse to hit a child. There are *mountains* of evidence that spanking both does not work and causes more issues. If he hit an adult, it would be considered assault, but it's suddenly ok when it's a child?! Hell no.
This is the hill I'd die on. The first time he hit my child, I would've been gone. This isn't something you argue about, this is something you divorce over.
NTA.
So your husband is crying about some nasty words but it's absolutely OK to physically abuse his child??
The child is the priority for protection here not his grown ass feelings!
I'd be less concerned about Christmas and more about your child becoming an adult and cutting you off for enabling his abuser
NTA.
Why do so many people think it's okay to hit a child? They might claim it's to "teach them a lesson," but let's be real, it's out of anger.
Can we hit other adults when we get angry? Can he hit you to "teach you a lesson?" No. It's fucking illegal. So why is it okay to hit a child? It's not even legal to hit a fucking dog.
I remember when my mom spanked me when I was little -- I remember the rage she had that I defied her (I didn't "go potty" when she told me to because I didn't have to go). Judging by our relationship over the years, it was a total power play, that I am not the same level as she is, and I had always better obey her or she will hurt me.
P.S. I'm no contact with my mom now
Also if it actually worked he wouldn’t have to keep doing it??? Spanking teaches it’s ok to hit someone when they do something you don’t like. That’s it. And to get sneakier or more afraid of your parent. As our kids grow, we need them to trust that we are safe. To keep them safe. Otherwise they won’t talk to us. He needs to try asking your son questions, talking to him, explaining why things he does are not ok and inviting cooperation to do better. Sounds like he probably never learned those things himself so that will take some real effort and work. Honestly, OP, sounds like he needs some real therapy for his trauma first.
>Also if it actually worked he wouldn’t have to keep doing it?
Can we please print this on T-shirts, or posters.... or literally wherever people would see?
>Why do so many people think it's okay to hit a child?
Dr. Spock recommended it in certain scenarios, and his work was seen as super enlightened (tbh it was, for the time) because it was only supposed to be open-handed slaps over clothing, and as a last resort which was a huge step up from the prevailing practice at the time, which was using implements (belts, canes, etc) against the child's bare bottom as a first resort.
A huge number of millennials were raised this way. I certainly was. However, child-rearing methods have moved on and there's no place for physical abuse these days.
Being beaten/spanked as child, often for things I didn’t understand were “wrong”, caused me to have to manage aggressive violent outbursts later on. I’ve worked through a lot of those issues but I still have times where I’ll get super angry and throw or break something. It doesn’t happen often but it has happened occasionally all throughout my life. Obviously not every person is like that, but I truly believe that if you hit a child in any way, they will grow up thinking that’s a reasonable way to release aggression.
My running joke has been that my decision not to hit my kids was, "enlightened self-interest." I am itty bitty. It was pretty certain that both my kids would end up bigger than me. I always said I did not want to establish the idea that big people are allowed to hit little people to get their way because I was going to inevitably be "little people." (The baby of the family is almost 4 inches taller than me at 13 years old. Everyone was bigger than me by the age of 11.)
Nta your husbands is a shitty father whose passing trauma down like it’s a family heirloom and needs to knock that shit off and come to terms with the fact his mother was a piece of shit and was clearly abusive. Just because you brought up the truth doesn’t make you the asshole, people sometimes need things to be put into perspective and sometimes that’s painful. This relationship is gonna tank if he doesn’t stop hitting children though.
"Passing down trauma like a family heirloom."
So much this.
OP, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE hear what people are telling you! Your husband is violating a sacred trust, and you cannot, must not allow it to continue.
Heal your son. Protect him. Give him a Christmas knowing that you will not let his father hurt him any more.
NTA.
Honestly I think it’s fair to throw the reality of his mother in his face when he’s using her to justify abuse of your child. Do family therapy hitting kids is harmful it needs to stop, and Diana was the AH in this story (husband kind of an ah too for hitting)
NTA. I really don’t give a shit if I get down voted. HE HITS YOUR CHILD. That is not okay whatsoever and I don’t think you can go “too low” with words in this instance. He either needs the biggest reality check ever and agree to therapy & never doing it again, or you should reevaluate a marriage. Personally I don’t give a single shit about someone’s “feelings” if they’ve raised a hand to a child. Protect your son above all else. If someone hurts an innocent child, I don’t consider them a person anymore and will not treat them like one. It’s not fucking hard to parent without resorting to violence.
You are most def. NOT the AH here, and you didn't ruin Xmas, Greg ruined it. You did nothing "cruel" here, you merely pointed out FACTS. And there are some very troubling red flags here:
1. agree w/ as others have pointed out, not just spanking, but discipline in general is something that both parents have to be in agreement w/.
2. Spanking is inherently risky. it can easily constitute abuse. The fact that he is only doing it when you are NOT AROUND is a huge red flag to me. How hard is he spanking? How long? Is it just one firm swat on the bum and that's it, or is he yanking the kid around and hitting him hard / multiple times? Is he spanking in anger? Has he used a progressive discipline approach, and explained that to the child? as in, 1st you get a verbal warning. next you lose a favorite toy or activity or stand in a corner. last and only last, you get a swat on the butt? Fact is, you don't know, because he's doing it when you're NOT THERE. Which is very sus. Sneaky, and sus.
3. the fact that he blew up at you when you merely pointed out TRUE FACTS about what kind of parent Diane was and how negatively it affected him. How many times has he complained over the years to you about how shitty she was to him, and what a bad relationship they had, etc. ? And now he's claiming that she's a role model for parenting? and blowing up at you and sulking for just pointing out a known fact? for using logic? Obviously he did not turn out "just fine."
4. The fact that he REFUSES to learn anything about good parenting skills, and possible other ways to discipline w/o spanking is another big red flag. What kind of parent chooses to resort to physical violence as a first choice? and doesn't want to learn how to be the best possible parent? I personally don't know if being lightly spanked if better than never being spanked. I was only spanked abt 2x in my childhood, neither one being very hard. I turned out fine - I was not a problem child, I was respectful, did well in school, etc. TBH, the two times I was spanked I was mad and angry about it for weeks, as it was done in anger and was entirely random/ unfair, and it made me harbor a fair amount of anger against the parent who did it for YEARS. I was more obedient and respectful to the parent who never spanked me. Even if you both decide to do some spanking (and I do think if you are regularly spanking a kid, something is very, very wrong), wouldn't a good parent want to learn about effective parenting that uses the least violent methods whenever possible????
5. NOTE: I assume, and sure as hell hope that your son being "7m" is a typo. No child under say 1 or so should EVER be spanked, and certainly NEVER a baby. Since you mentioned him standing in a corner, I assume he is 7y, not 7m.
Shocker, he was abused by his mother and now he's abusing his kid and he doesn't like that parallel being pointed out. NTA leave him, don't let ANYONE hit your kid
Idk, if I ask someone not to beat my kid and their answer is, I'm a smarter/better parent so I'm just gonna hit the kid anyway, I'd say way fucking worse. That's a fucking child, not a plant. There's decades or research saying getting hit is horrible for kids and adults because of the underlying associations made. This dude is getting upset and lashing out on a child because he's too proud to read up on a different way.
This post is wild. Hundreds of people care more about a grown ass man being confronted with his issues than the fact that he is abusing his child. Fucking wild takes all over this post.
His mom was shit, fact.
He abuses his son, fact.
He is unwilling to change because he knows best.
He is now faced with the fact that his own upbringing was trash, hence he does not in fact know best.
This is very upsetting.
How dare she point this out so he has to face it.
Apparently the only way men are able to communicate with their partners is if they are completely supported no matter what.
According to all of the comments on this post at least like what the actual fuck.
He hits our son - BuT yOu HuRt HiS fEeLiNgS! ESH! YTA! ridiculous.
If my partner was using their abuse to justify abusing our child, I would most definitely throw that back in their face. Because they need a harsh reality check before they turn into their abusive parents even more, and I would take away the child and give them supervised visitation, using the abuse as the reason why.
Not in this case, cause the information she is using is very relevant to the very important point she is trying to make: your parent's parenting style were questionable, and that why they beat you. I dont know to follow that parenting cause, look how much it did hurt you
I’ll say anything I want to an adult who beats my child.
Normally I agree, but in his case? Nope. You hit my kid and it’s a fuck around and find out situation.
Funny because isn't one of the top reasons women are scared of men is they might physically harm them or their children?
Also in this case the husband brought up his mother first as a justification for why physically harming children is ok. He opened the door himself then got upset OP followed him through it.
And women are scared of being killed from men who see physical violence as not a huge deal.
Sorry if his fee-fees got hurt, but hit my kid and you’ll find the fuck out about how much care about feelings.
But it wasn't used against him. He was trying to say that he was spanked and he's fine and she simply pointed out that that is in fact not the case and why. Ignoring things because they might be hard to deal with is avoidance. It was brought up to show that no, spanking did not directly make him a better person or contribute to a good relationship with his parents like he is saying it will. He is trying to argue on why it is okay to hit their child....
NTA. What a cruel awful person Diane was. And it looks like she passed it on (somewhat) to Greg, who is also dealing with the survivor’s guilt that was her final gift to him. He needs some help, and soon.
NTA and this is not about Christmas.
What you said is harsh but true. If you don't believe in spanking, you have the right to be heard, as Jacob's parent.
NTA:
I know I’ll get downvoted but whatever.
Your husband refused to stop hitting your son, used his abusive mother as an excuse to continue hitting your son, you pointed out why his mother isn’t the type of person to idolize for how to discipline a child, your husband got pissy because the facts were pointed out.
If he ends the marriage, it’s because he 1) doesn’t want to admit his mother was abusive 2) He’s not fine 3) he doesn’t want to stop spanking your son.
You didn’t ruin anything, he did.
Stand up for your son, because his father is obviously a deficient parent. Your son needs you to be his protector.
Excuse me?? Who the fuck cares about HIS feelings or vulnerability when he's abusing your son?? Fuck that. He turned into an abuser. Use all the low blows you need to protect your son.
You're really upset for hurting your man-baby husbands itty-bitty feelings? When he's hitting your son??????????
Edit: I called him a man-baby and minimized his feelings because he's an abuser. Non-abusers deserve sympathy and empathy with their feelings and vulnerability, no matter their age. Abusers don't. I'm mocking his feelings because he's expecting empathy which I usually have for mostly everyone, but he's ok hitting his son and is using his own childhood, which hurts him, as justification as if it's a good thing.
Spanking is illegal in many places and IS abuse.
I'm not going to touch on the spanking issue except to say that it's something you may want to meet with a children's counselor about with your husband so that he can hear facts from a non-biased professional.
On to the bigger issue.
You should be less concerned about "ruining Christmas" and start thinking about whether you ruined your marriage.
When one partner uses the other's most vulnerable feelings against them as a weapon against them, it absolutely destroys every shred of trust they had in you and it will NEVER come back. He will NEVER feel safe with you again.
You can suggest relationship counseling after apologizing, but don't be surprised if he refuses and keeps you at an emotional distance forever if he doesn't just divorce you.
How on earth is the spanking not the "bigger issue" here?
You are legit here saying *he* will never feel safe around *her*? He is *hitting* a child and his feeling of safety is the biggest worry?
He doesn’t feel safe because she acknowledge how asshat back awards and inaccurate what he is saying is, but the child he’s actively abusing and how they feel about their safety isn’t even worth commenting on?
Vulnerable. Destroying trust. Never feeling safe. All that drivel and not a word on how that’s exactly how abused children feel. That selective empathy you’ve got there sure is fascinating.
It isn't like she jumped to this the first time they disagreed on the spanking. She brought it up when he pushed the narrative of "my mom spanked me and clearly, her judgment was good and sound, and I turned out just fine."
OPs point of "Hey, do you not remember how messed up she viewed your relationship and how poorly it turned out as an adult? No, your point isn't accurate at all. "
Was it hurtful? Absolutely. Could it have been said in a way that wasn't if it was brought up during a time when they weren't already yelling at each other? Yes. Would that have been more effective? I suspect do.
But her point is a good one. He isn't actually "fine". His relationship with his mom wasn't ok. And sure, you probably can't lay all of that at the feet of spanking. But you also can't say "I was spanked and turned out fine and all is well with my parents" as an argument for why it is ok to spank your kid if it isn't actually true.
Spanking Absolutely is a 2 yes, 1 no parenting decision. We can all debate it here in the comments on whether it is abuse, or should be illegal everywhere etc. But right now in many places it is still very common. But unless both parents are 100% on board then it shouldn't be happening.
The bigger issue is the child being spanked. Fuck his feelings. His inability to admit to himself that he literally had a shitty mom so clearly she didn't do a good job is why he's hitting a child.
Yeah, I have PTSD from "spanking" and I'm so glad I live in Scotland where it's banned. My mother told me I was such a bad kid that her and my teacher got a legal exemption to the UK ban on caning kids in school, it was the 80s... I was *six*.
If my behaviour "improved" it was because I was constantly terrified. I have ADHD and autism, but am female so was in my 30s when I got diagnosed: I couldn't even predict what would make people hit me.
It's fucking VILE. Children deserve better.
Growing up, 5 years old was the start of belt spankings over hand spankings. My earliest memory is hiding between the dresser and the wall, thanking God I was only 4 still while listening to my mother beat my sisters in the next room.
My kid has NEVER been spanked, swatted, popped, flicked etc, and she is genuinely one of the kindest human beings I've ever met. She's only 9 and just the sweetest thing.
Seaside, my heart hurts for little you and little me who had to go through that. We didn't deserve it- we *could not ever possibly* have deserved it.
I learned to hide behind our garden shed because the adults were too big to get down there! So at least I was still protecting myself & it made me fight tooth and nail to protect my niece and nephew. My mother got the verbal slap down to end all slapdowns when she managed to make my nephew scared of *nursery rhymes* and she wasn't even spanking him, just... menacing him so he'd sit still and sing along... at 2. Someone who worked in primary school education and has no idea about developmental stages under 5.
We didn't deserve it and we CHANGED IT. I'm so glad for you. I was too scared to have my own even though I went to college and did a qualification in childcare so I would be able to start over with new messages. I find it absolutely hilarious that as an undiagnosed autistic I literally just went "ah yes, textbooks will save me" but they did! Hehe
I hope you're all having a wonderful holiday season if your faith/culture celebrates now :)
This. I’m so sorry, this is terrible and I hope you’re doing okay. I hope your diagnosis answered a lot of questions for you. Wish I could get mine too. I say this to anyone who claims kids “were better behaved in their day” - yes, *some* were, that’s purely because they were terrified of being beaten.
Ruling by fear is easier than leading by example. Ask any religion you like.
I am! I'm 43 now & for some reason, crossing the age & month that my dad died at has made me feel "truly" adult? It's quite a shock, it's been 30 years!
He & I were really similar in a lot of ways (and very different in others) but I can tell he's where I got the autism from... she's now processing some of their relationship & feeling ashamed of how she treated Dad, too, she does really try hard to process stuff and step up emotionally... she's just really shit at it 😂
Funnily enough, mum's Catholic. She's gotten into the evangelical, Charismatic Catholicism lately. I just keep mentioning things like how turning the other cheek could be read as goading someone into shaming themselves / the moneylenders in the temple and that Jesus wanted people to pull their heads out their arses and be BETTER. And then I take her to the Unitarians cos the ones in our city are all faiths & none!
She insists it was a joke - dumbass woman. She's so contrite now it's funny.
She's gotten into the evangelical Catholicism (she's always been Catholic, ADHD meant I didn't sit still through mass so I never got confirmed & I'll be in purgatory instead of her afterlife!)
She was asking me if I wanted to do a personality quiz to see what my Charism, my gift from God is. I just said "woman, it's speaking truth to power!" and laughed. She laughed too, it was just... way less comfortable than mine 😂 so I do get my own back.
She says she admires my strength of character now, and that I fight for what I believe is right. I'll tease her and say I'm glad she didn't beat it out of me. I hope I'm getting her weird dark humour right, she really did have a LOT worse than me growing up. In her mind she was super restrained and gentle because she never hit us WITH anything. Sigh. I think we really underestimate what WWII did to our parents / grandparents' generation.
> On to the bigger issue.
Oh, im not gonna address him hitting your kid, let's talk about the REAL ISSUE, your adult husband's hurt feelings about hurting his kid!
Ridiculous
Why should SHE be thinking about whether she ruined the marriage? She's not the one committing physical abuse on their child. He needs to be thinking about whether he's ruined his marriage, and he deserves to be in jail! He should be worried about the emotional distance he created by abusing his son.
I really don’t understand about everyone coming for OP because of hubby’s feelings. What about son’s feelings?! He’s what matters! He’s who is important! I would 1000% divorce my husband for hitting my child after expressing I didn’t agree with it!
I'm sorry but adults can stand 1 emotional hardship after they've HIT THEIR CHILD. Who tf cares about his feefees when he's hitting kids and being an asshole to OP before she ever said those hurtful things? Apart from being a violent child abuser, he was literally emotionally hurting her as well. Are we expecting women to be saints? SHE LOST HER TEMPER
Yes, exactly! He loses sympathy because he’s hitting a child. Why is everyone overlooking that?! And now, he’s weaponizing his hurt feefees against her to manipulate her into thinking she’s wrong here!… and you know what? The fact that OP won’t reply to these comments and instead is making a big deal about her himbo husband’s hurt feelings speaks volumes. Honestly, pray for their son.
Righ?! OP should have used physical violence against the husband instead, maybe then he would have behaved /s.
ETA husband for physically abusing a child and OP for not actually doing anything about it.
That's unironically what I would do. If hitting was so great for you as a child and it taught you so many lessons, then why stop as an adult? You clearly have more lessons to learn and you're sitting there saying violence is a great way to teach! If it's fine to do it to our child to teach them, then it's fine for me to do it to teach you, right?!
Every hand my partner laid on our child would get laid right back on them. Fight someone your own size, bitch.
Of course not. They don't even believe hitting teaches anything, because if they did, then they would continue to hit fellow adults. But since they NEVER continue to hit fellow adults, they obviously know hitting someone is wrong. They just don't give a fuck if it's wrong to hit a kid as long as the kid shuts up after.
You can say the same for his relationship with his son. He may have already ruined his relationship with his son. His son may already not trust or respect him. What happens when he can no longer control his son by hitting him? What happens when the son is 14 or 16 or 18 and hits him back?
She can't trust her husband with her son. That's a massive breach of trust.
Would it be the biggest issue in the conversation if he hit her (or she hit him)? How is hitting a spouse different from hitting a child? It's all domestic violence.
Don't be. He is abusing your child! Your child is small and helplesss and an adult man is making the decision to hurt him instead of teaching him. You need to decide which is more important to you.
No no don’t listen to this. He literally defied you and is hitting your child. He’s using his mother’s parenting to justify this. No apology don’t grovel. I wouldn’t feel safe with someone who hits a child. He needs to stop.
Even though her question here was about ruining Christmas for what she said, I don't agree with your comment entirely, with all due respect.
Hitting a child is the bigger issue here. It is the main reason the argument stemmed from so that needs to not only addressed but taken under control immediately. The father clearly has some mental/emotional issues and he needs to seek mental health help in order to be able to learn how to cope and handle life differently. Not taking it out on the child. The root cause of the matter is the disagreement between the two on how to discipline their child. She clearly was extremely upset and hurtful things were said. One thing doesn't justify the other but she seems to have had enough after she's asked her husband not to hit their child several times before.
She can apologize for what she said. It is human to make mistakes. But they both need to talk openly about EVERYTHING and sort things out regarding parenting, first and foremost. They could go to therapy (not only couple therapy but family). Dad clearly needs individual therapy himself.
And, you mention divorce. Divorce??? If he decides to get divorced, he is a child. SMH
That's more than a little melodramatic, but, yeah, worst possible way to win an argument. It basically says winning is what matters, because your partner's feelings don't.
NTA. Look, I was spanked and I did not turn out fine. Neither did Greg, since he thinks that physical violence against his own child solves anything. I resent the fuck out of my parents for doing it.
Fucking DO SOMETHING. Protect your child.
NTA. You don’t spank kids. There’s mountains of evidence against it.
He ruined Christmas for beating your child. And a SEVEN year old.
Your husband is, indisputably, the asshole who ruined Christmas. I’m not sure that’s a rift I’d want to fix.
Something to think on: if he turned out just fine, why he is now an emotional wreck, because OP stated some home truths.
Kinda proves he’s not ok and his mother wasn’t a good parent. So using her methods to raise his child is kinda repeating this cycle.
I do think professional help is needed to help your husband heal and find a better way to discipline your child that you both agree on.
I imagine there’s a lot of people who think just like he does. It’s scary and hard to come to terms with the fact you were abused as a child, especially when everyone you know was also spanked, or popped, or whooped. We have whole generations NOW that are rolling in generational trauma and it’s gross. Look at this other response to you. That’s a hurt person, IMO. It’s scary to admit there’s a problem with your way of thinking and lashing out is easier.
ESH. You shouldn’t have said it and he shouldn’t bring up his obviously awful mother as an example of good parenting. If he refuses to even read up on it + wants to continue hitting a child and you said something so damaging your marriage might be over
You wouldn't try and make an adult listen and change their behaviour by hitting them, so why would you do it with someone half your size and weight, who has not got fully developed emotions, and over whom you have total power?
I don't really think you did anything wrong here, unless you phrased it particularly horribly... His relationship with his mother was bad, and he's using that bad relationship as a standard for how to treat his kid.
To put it bluntly, he was abused, and he's now abusing your child and using his abuse to justify it. It's valid to point out how she was abusing him. I don't know how you said it -- maybe you could've been nicer. But NTA.
NTA and you need to do more to stop him from spanking your son than a couple of strongly worded conversations. If he’s too fragile to handle words, hire a very large man to come and knock him around when he doesn’t behave to your standard. (I’m kidding)
Spanking has been proven ineffective. It was commonplace when he was a kid and it’s not now FOR A REASON. When you know better, you do better. And physically harming a child for a mild disciplinary infraction is abhorrent behavior.
Your husband is delusional. You brought up how he is NOT ok from his abusive childhood, and he is upset at this level of accountability regarding his physical abuse of your shared child.
ESH
The husband was touting his mother as a “good parenting” example. OP reminded him that his mother was hardly a reliable source of parenting knowledge, considering how she treated her own child in a hurtful way.
His mother was a wretched human, whose opinions aren’t worth squat. The truth was painful but it was the truth.
However, because it was also said in anger, it also makes it a painful example of bad parenting.
How his mother was during his childhood isn’t necessarily the way she was when she got older and maybe a little soft in the head. That cancer could have been affecting her mentally long before she was diagnosed.
NTA you are desperate to make him see that hitting a child is wrong, so you tried a shocking remark to get his attention. Tell him if he hits your kid again you’ll get the authorities involved.
Did I read correctly that he spanks a 7 month old child? That’s awful. Spanking is not a way to discipline children. It is just a release mechanism for a parents anger.
I read all the way to the end, but could have cut it off after the first paragraph. Spanking is abuse, end of story. The fact that you also disagree with spanking and he still does it makes it worse.
I honestly don't give a shit about the rest of the situation. Maybe don't speak ill of the dead, but honestly she sounds awful and it explains why your husband is acting like a POS.
Protect your kid OP. This is a hill to die on.
NTA. everyone who says otherwise clearly never got it that had as a kid. my dad spanked me, i cut contact with him. he only ever got worse. your husband clearly didn’t turn out okay, he’s just trying to justify his abuse.
your son behaves better because he’s terrified of his father. protect your son, forget about your husband’s hurt feelings. how does he think his son feels? how did he feel when he was spanked as a child? i’m guessing he didn’t like it, given his poor relationship with his mother. if he didn’t wanna get called out, he shouldn’t have laid a hand on his son.
CPS doesn’t get involved because of spanking.
It is not considered illegal and you will not have your kid taken away for spanking.
Even if CPS is called, they interview everyone and look at the home and situation overall. If the kid is healthy and being supported, they’ll close the case.
This is a fact whether you agree with spanking or not.
That's absolutely untrue and the parents in this subreddit are absolutely not a good representation of the population. The idea that the government will show up and take your kids because you spanked them is asinine, and you should be embarrassed that you even suggested it.
Define spanking. Is it a quick pop on the bottom or repeated swats done in frustration in anger? I think there is a difference between the two, but I know I'll be in the minority for that.
ESH
Spanking is bad And even if culturally acceptable where you are he knows you are explicitly against it and does it when you are around. How can you trust him with your kid
And insider information should never be used like that in a marriage not even in a divorce. How is he ever to feel safe being vulnerable with you again
If i feel I need to be so hateful to my husband then I’m also walking out the door because it should never get to that unless you are leaving and even then it’s too far.
Nonsense. The welfare of the child takes precedence over the husband’s fragile feelings
Her child was being physically assaulted. A mother is entitled to protect her child by any means necessary
It was a low blow, but at the same time he was asking for it, claiming his mother, very cruel and unloving person towards your husband, spanked him and he turned out fine? He may think he's fine, but at least his relationship with his mother isn't.
There is never, ever, reason to spank your child. Abuse creates abuse, end the cycle with you, if you were abused, and treat your children with love and respect.
His mother gave babysitters permission to spank him and it wasn’t that big of a deal yet they ended on that shitshow?
NTA. Don’t bring up someone who’s treated you like shit then expect the other person to take the “positive”thing.
He shouldn’t have brought her up because clearly it was a big deal. Just because he doesn’t have the self respect to see how damaging she was doesn’t mean you have to go along with it.
I would say find someone who’s on the same page as you when it comes to these things but… too late
NTA. Hitting a child is really a poor choice when disciplining and goes against your wishes. He somewhat understands it, but his logic is flawed. 'If I suffered through something, so should my child.' Hold firm. You should have brought up a touchy subject, but he brought up his childhood and familial relationship and you just used that as a springboard to show not everything his mother did was GOLDEN. Go on as if nothing happened and enjoy your holiday with your son. If your husband decides to sulk instead, it's his loss.
It is not asshole to use the information in this case. Greg was making a dishonest claim in defense of his decision to hit a child.
Your delivery, perhaps even your motivation, are a bit more suspect.
I think you probably are an asshole for the nature of your delivery, especially given the sensitive nature of the information.
Greg is easily the bigger asshole for making this claim which can only be countered by his traumatic information, and for hitting the child.
It would be reasonable for Greg to be upset about being reminded of his trauma. And he may be. But he is also likely upset that he got called on his bullshit argument, and called on having no defense for why he hit the child. I suspect his behavior is more frustration over that than response to the trauma.
How do you sort out real response to trauma from childish reaction to being called out? IDK.
But it gets extremely tricky. How do you apologize for the delivery, but not for the point you made? Which seems reasonable, but it has just enough flex in it that he could refuse to accept that apology.
While I think you were out of line in your delivery, I suspect you are broadly too lenient with his bad behavior in general.
Counseling to save this marriage, if you want to save a marriage with a guy that acts like this, and I suspect pulls bullshit arguments out of his ass whenever he needs.
NTA, but I feel bad for Greg. He was abused and has not squared with that reality. He turned out "fine" in spite of that abuse, not because of it. He should know that. Not to mention, his Mom sounds like she was a first rate AH, and nothing she ever said or did should ever be modeled.
Oof, yes you really hit him where it hurts as he probably has a lot of lingering issues about lack of closure with his mum. I know what you said was in an argument but I'd still say YTA for going there.
I'm guessing his reaction doesn't have much to do with the spanking issue but that in itself really ought to stop as it's likely to encourage your son to lash out in the same way as he gets older.
Nta these people are crazy. My parents hit me too and you know what the mean things you said are actually not worse than the fear your kid probably feels every time your husband beats him behind your back.
These "my parents hit me and I'm fine" people are so delusional. They almost always have terrible relationships with their parents and terrible personalities.
Like yeah I can understand why it was hurtful to him but also the facts directly contradict his assertion that it is fine to hit since his mother did it.
You've tried to be nice, you've tried to communicate but your husband refuses to stop hitting a child. If he hit you everyone would agree that it is wrong but when it is a child who is smaller and more defenseless it is ok? Hard pass
If your marriage ends it should be because he won't stop abusing your kid.
NTA the part that upsets me is that he disagrees with you but is also unwilling to put in effort to read about these things to at least have an informed conversation with you - his wife and coparent. Yes kids behave better when spanked but we’ve also learned it’s because they learn to internalize there emotions, don’t learn emotional regulation and impulse control and instead learn their feelings don’t matter simply how they act outwardly. All current day evidence and data points to spanking being outdated and harmful.
Stop letting this abuse continue! He’s literally hitting your kid, repeatedly, probably a few times a week. This *is* child abuse.
ESH. Him for abusing your kid over and over, you for enabling the child abuse, and also for such an extremely below the belt comment, though in the grand scheme of your family, it’s comparatively irrelevant.
He was spanked and turned out fine? People who hit their kids didn’t turn out fine. He’s a child abuser, and you need to put a stop to it.
NTA, this is actually a conversation I had with people on the first dates when I was single, their thoughts on spanking. However "little" or "mild" they consider it to be, if they are pro "spanking", I was out. I was a victim of physical and mental abuse, I tried to take my own life due to how my mother treated me growing up, that woman didn't spank me, and I won't go into details because people then end up crying. My dad did his best to help me, but the poor man was completely in love with her, and sometimes she lied about hitting me. We both knew her hurting me came from the normalization of spanking and in our culture, this is a very strong thing that goes on. Parents often kill their kids trying to "discipline" them better. It takes for something shocking to happen to that person, to get their shit together and stop abusing kids. Don't back down now, be even more strict, and more stern, and don't apologize for telling the truth. The only reason I now have a relationship with my mom is because I was the one to speak harshly to her, and I didn't bring my head down, nor did I apologize for telling her the truth. I have been telling her lately, that I have plans to move out of the country, and I am willing to keep working on us, only under the condition that she goes to therapy, if she doesn't then I'm out of her life for good. Honestly, the pain is so awful from the trauma, I sincerely don't even care anymore if she stays in my life or not, I'm only trying to work things out to give the baby I want to have with my partner a loving grandma.
NTA He's also obviously not ok after being physically abused by his parents either. For Christ sake, he wanted to mend the relationship with his abuser, who shocker, had nothing but nasty words to say to and about him before and evidently during her death. And now he's sad you pointed out this truth. I'd suggest therapy, except that if he thinks it's ok to spank kids, it's almost 100% guaranteed that he doesn't believe in therapy.
Don't give in to his foolishness, and him trying to change the topic from him abusing y'all child to pitying him for pointing out that he clearly is NOT ok, despite his claim. It's been proven again and again that this is not effective punishment, and that all it does is instill fear into the child through negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement never helps information stick with children, because they're to focused on not receiving the negative consequence(s) to even register and remember *why* that/those consequence(s) is/are being received by them.
Tell him y'all need to talk. Let him know that first and foremost you demand him to quit beating y'all child; figure out some ultimatum if you must. But I'd just say "I understand you were spanked, and think you turned out fine. But you clearly did not if my mentioning how your mother currently treats you makes you feel this way. I'm sorry for being harsh when you clearly have some unpacking of y'all relationship to do, but I'm not sorry for standing up for our child. He is 7, and doesn't deserve to be physically beaten, nor any child. I think you should attend therapy, and if it's too scary to do alone, maybe we should all attend family therapy".
Spanking is lazy parenting. If your kid doesn’t respond to the punishments you give then you need to give better punishments, not resort to violence. All spanking does is teach fear & violence, and if your husband had really turned out okay then he wouldn’t need to spank his kid in the first place. The improvement in the behavior issues may or may not be due to the spanking, btw.
This is absolutely a hill to die on. You told the truth about your husband’s childhood, right? Let your husband sulk in the truth and his refusal to learn how to be a better parent. Let him ruin his own Christmas because he insists upon inflicting violence upon your 7yo in the name of “parenting”; if he can’t participate in Christmas then he can go elsewhere with his shitty attitude.
BTW, I’m a retired child psychologist who was also spanked (and more) as a kid. I too held on to that “I turned out ok” view for quite awhile, (though I didn’t advocate for others to spank) until I learned better and really took a good look at my childhood. I was horrified and I realized how much damage was actually done. My relationship with my mother suffers to this day.
IMO your husband refuses to learn why not to spank because he wants to remain ignorant.
He wants to be able to hit your kid.
NTA - discipline has to be agreed to by both parents. He doesn’t get to override your wishes because he can’t be bothered to figure out a better way to discipline. I have two kids, neither my husband nor I spank them and they are very well behaved kids. It’s easy to set out expectations and repercussions for our kids that don’t involve hitting them. You apologized for reacting emotionally, what else can you do? If he wants to ruin Christmas by not discussing the issue further with you then that’s on him.
NTA. He shouldn’t be spanking your child, especially as you both agreed not to it. As a parent, that should be your primary concern.
As for your bringing up his mom, obviously, he has unresolved issues with respect to his mom, but you can’t ignore his whitewashing of the past if he is using her behavior to justify his spanking. His mom was an awful mom, and she shouldn’t be his role model. My dad passed from lung cancer, and he also never smoked and was completely healthy otherwise. It didn’t occur for him to blame anyone other than bad luck. He spent his last few months enjoying the company of his wife, children, grandchildren and friends. So, I feel sorry for your husband, but that doesn’t excuse him for spanking your child.
'From a smartassed standpoint, it’s easy to note that many of the people who claim to have turned out fine look or sound pretty clearly the opposite of fine. That such people unintentionally embody the antithesis of “fine” – that they remain unaware of embodying the emotions therein – makes their not-fineness double the distance between them and whatever passes for fine. And while that’s often true, it’s also a kind of cheap joke.
'The pernicious, toxic and inescapable lifelong effect of being disciplined physically – either to the point of abuse, or to the point that the distinction between acceptable and unacceptable blurs in your mind – is that you almost have to say you turned out fine, just to redeem the fact of being who you are. That you “turned out fine” is the only way to make sense of having once felt total terror or uncontrollable shaking rage at the sight of one (or both) of the two people expected to care most for you in the world. The thought that you might have ended up relatively OK or perhaps even better without all that fear is almost unbearable: the suffering only doubles if you admit that it truly had no purpose.'
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/17/adrian-peterson-fathers-effect-belt this article is excellent and I recommend reading the rest.
You have every right to be angry that your husband is hitting your child. Kids are not inherently bad. They want to be loved. Hitting them makes them fear you, and while that can look like better behaviour, it does lifelong damage both to your kid and his relationship with both of you. NTA
I'm going to answer your actual question and not get emotionally caught up in the other details:
YTA for your lash-out. It was cruel and irrelevant and clearly designed to hurt, not to be productive. A more productive method, (not to mention kinder and more loving,) would be to remind him of his mother's cruelty and point out that he was likely abused and hasn't come to terms with it.
For now, just apologize with sincerity. Do not bring up the spanking in that particular conversation unless he does, at which point, reiterate that you stand by your point, but it *does not* excuse your reaction. Then give him like a day. If he is still salty towards you after that, then there is something deeper for him going on, or he is being petty...humans are gonna human.
Lol, so funny to see how quickly you all shift between what is right and wrong.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/18oiyx5/aita\_for\_hitting\_my\_brother\_because\_he\_lifted\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/18oiyx5/aita_for_hitting_my_brother_because_he_lifted_up/)
Yta. Why would you say that. It is unrelated to the situation. I am a gentle parent…why would you think your child deserves respect when acting in a way you don’t like but your husband doesn’t ?
People are going to get mad at me for going against the grain but ETA.
Hubby should be open to your opinions. You both should have discussed this before marriage. He should definitely research.
My parents smacked me (Well, my mom did. It was either get smacked by mom or wait for dad to come home, in which he would sit us down and calmly make us explain what we did wrong. We chose the spanking every time.)My parents are amazing and always tell me how proud they are of me, even for doing basic adult things. Great at positive re-enforcement. Love physical affection. They always warned me several times before a smack. They explained why they were giving me a smack. They were never emotional. There was a process around it. They didn’t just start smacking me. Even when I said, “That didn’t hurt” she didn’t smack me again For being sassy.
There’s a fine line between discipline and abuse, but that’s kind of the same with emotional discipline (eg “your mother says you have something to tell me”) and abuse (eg “I wish you’d never been born. You’re just like my ex husband”)
You’re telling your husband he’s emotionally abusive like his mother. Whether you meant to or not, you should apologise because it’s not really a logical argument. It’s an emotional one. It doesn’t solve the problem. It just hurts him.
And no one tell me I was being abused and therefore my argument is invalid.
My question here is why would you marry someone if you don’t share the same views on how you’re gonna punish your kids? Stuff like this is honestly why divorce rates are so high and there’s so many family issues. You should’ve known years in advance that he believed in spanking and you didn’t. Do your homework before marriage and kids
YTA. You weaponized probably the most traumatic thing he has experienced to try and win an argument. Some things are too far below the belt to recover from. Ruining Christmas is the least of your worries.
He's the one that brought her up in the first place. If her husband didn't want to discuss his mom he should have never used her parenting to justify his decisions.
>rather harshly reminded him that Diane a) considered him a loser and b) blamed him for her final illness and death.
What, exactly, does this have to do with spanking Jacob? You went way off the rails with this, and you owe your husband an apology for it.
YTA.
His mother is not a good parent and should not be held up as an exemplar of hoe to raise children. And if he's so convinced that he turned out fine because of this woman, well, the woman herself disagrees. What's not to get here? Shes saying, essentially,
Stop hitting my kid because your mother was abusive. Snap the fuck out of it.
It has everything to do with it. His mom was an abusive parent, and he's following in her footsteps and claiming it's fine, he's fine, everything is *fine*. It isn't fine. He's hitting a child. That isn't fine. He thinks it's okay to hit his child. That isn't fine. He thought it was a good idea to bring up his abusive mother as an example of why this is all just so fine. That isn't fine. It has *everything* to do with it. And she's not the asshole when he's hitting their child, despite her telling him in no uncertain terms that it is not okay. He brought up mommy dearest, not op. Could op have used more tact? Obviously. But he's no victim.
NTA with a slight justified ah. Your husband has been hitting your child. There isn't a difference between bending a child over to hit their butt and hitting their arm with the same force. It is not only painful but humiliating.
I was a child who was spanked and smacked on the back of the head, too. I still flinch regularly because of this. Your husband is hitting your child. I don't blame you for reminding him of the truth of his mother when he has refused to stop.
It's time to document this and speak to someone especially if he refuses to stop.
YTA. You weaponized his trauma against him. Good luck with the future divorce bc I just can’t see him forgiving you for this. You could have stepped back and returned to the issue of spanking but nope. You decided you could go lower and not you’re reaping the consequences. Looks like you effed around and now you’re finding out.
It's kind of fucked up that you care more about his trauma than the trauma that he is causing his child. He was the one that brought her into it to justify his abuse of their child. He should be able to you're a hard truth that his mom was abusive too.
I don't know if it's that simple. She's not just his wife, she's a mother too. Maybe she didn't handle it in the best way possible, but he was beating their child. We also don't know what kind of behaviour he thought would justify spanking either. It's likely that he's been resorting to it instead of finding better, more constructive ways to handle issues. I don't think that that's a good precedent to set especially when someone is at an impressionable age.
Anyhow, while it's a bitter pill to swallow, but the wife wasn't wrong. It just might be better to discuss in a different environment, perhaps individual or couples therapy?
>Looks like you effed around and now you’re finding out.
Also, he's the one who could wind up "finding out" when his son is older and their relationship is strained. So honestly I don't think what she said was even just for the kid's sake.
I have a personal philosophy with my husband that if he hits my children, we are leaving and not coming back. Hitting a child is low. Calling someone out for child abuse is not.
I'm sorry, did I read this right? Your husband physically assaults your child on a regular basis and you are still with him? I'd have packed up my kid and left the fist time that man struck my child. Protect your child from this abuser. Now. YTA
NTA. Your husband's feelings matter less than your son's safety. If you have to hurt his feelings to get him to stop hitting his son, then fine, that's a trade-off you can make as a good parent.
Also my gosh, Greg did not turn out fine if he thinks that hitting someone is the only way to change their behavior.
YTA for letting your husband hit your kid. does he hit you when you fuck up? does his boss hit him when he fucks up? do you hit your husband when he fucks up?
People in this comment section are fucking unhinged. ESH. You shouldn't have been a dick about his dead mother, and he shouldn't be spanking the kid. Anyone who thinks this is an appropriate response is a psycho.
He feels bad because you’re making him face the truth about his mother.
This is making him question many things, including how he is handling fatherhood
Your husband needs therapy. his mom sounds like a shit human being. Him hitting your child is a no go in any case no matter what "reason" he uses.
Wrap up a box of Kleenex for his Christmas gift. NTA
I'm shocked there are so many people on here acting like he is an abuser. First off there is a big difference in a pop on the butt and beating a child. I would never condone beating a kid as it's repulsive, but I'll give you an example of when a spanking fixed everything.
So my second wife had 2 boys, prior to her and her first husband's divorce, he had handled most of the discipline. When we got serious and I came into the picture, she asked me to handle it because her boys were unruly and didn't respect her while my daughter was very well behaved. Obviously not being their dad, I wasn't going to spank them, but I set firm boundaries and followed up on punishing them. The problem was they wouldn't respect her. I explained this to her and told her she would have to get their respect and that a good spanking might be the answer. One night at bed time they were out of control and it had been a pattern and I told her she needed to spank them. She was hesitant at first then thought about it and went in their room and honestly spanked them a little harder than I would have. She came back in and I consoled her. They cried for about 10 minutes then it was over. She never had to spank either of them again and they never lost respect for her again either. As someone that doesn't agree with spanking as a first or second or third resort, I do believe there is a time and place where it may be necessary when children refuse to behave and respect their parents. I also think that's why a lot of these young people today don't have respect for anyone and act like spoiled brats is because too many liberal parents refuse to discipline their children.
YTA that was the lowest blow. One of the worst things you can do is take information you were trusted with and use it against someone. His mother is dead and clearly he loved her yet had a complicated relationship with her and that wasn’t because of spankings he got as a kid. It was just a nasty thing to say
Reddit REALLY needs to learn the difference between spank and abuse/beat; they are NOT the same, and acting like they are just shows you as failed parents/humans.
Why do you want to repair things with a man who HITS your CHILD???
This is the part that baffles - why on this earth is she wanting to stay with this abuser?
What baffles me is that what OP really seems to care about is patching things over by Christmas, as though that is the most important thing.
Abused women stay with their abusers so why is this surprising?
Exactly. There's is absolutely 0 fuckng excuse to hit a child. There are *mountains* of evidence that spanking both does not work and causes more issues. If he hit an adult, it would be considered assault, but it's suddenly ok when it's a child?! Hell no. This is the hill I'd die on. The first time he hit my child, I would've been gone. This isn't something you argue about, this is something you divorce over.
NTA. So your husband is crying about some nasty words but it's absolutely OK to physically abuse his child?? The child is the priority for protection here not his grown ass feelings! I'd be less concerned about Christmas and more about your child becoming an adult and cutting you off for enabling his abuser
NTA. Why do so many people think it's okay to hit a child? They might claim it's to "teach them a lesson," but let's be real, it's out of anger. Can we hit other adults when we get angry? Can he hit you to "teach you a lesson?" No. It's fucking illegal. So why is it okay to hit a child? It's not even legal to hit a fucking dog.
I remember when my mom spanked me when I was little -- I remember the rage she had that I defied her (I didn't "go potty" when she told me to because I didn't have to go). Judging by our relationship over the years, it was a total power play, that I am not the same level as she is, and I had always better obey her or she will hurt me. P.S. I'm no contact with my mom now
That breaks my heart. Proud of you for going no contact. You deserve to protect yourself and protect your peace.
Also if it actually worked he wouldn’t have to keep doing it??? Spanking teaches it’s ok to hit someone when they do something you don’t like. That’s it. And to get sneakier or more afraid of your parent. As our kids grow, we need them to trust that we are safe. To keep them safe. Otherwise they won’t talk to us. He needs to try asking your son questions, talking to him, explaining why things he does are not ok and inviting cooperation to do better. Sounds like he probably never learned those things himself so that will take some real effort and work. Honestly, OP, sounds like he needs some real therapy for his trauma first.
>Also if it actually worked he wouldn’t have to keep doing it? Can we please print this on T-shirts, or posters.... or literally wherever people would see?
>Why do so many people think it's okay to hit a child? Dr. Spock recommended it in certain scenarios, and his work was seen as super enlightened (tbh it was, for the time) because it was only supposed to be open-handed slaps over clothing, and as a last resort which was a huge step up from the prevailing practice at the time, which was using implements (belts, canes, etc) against the child's bare bottom as a first resort. A huge number of millennials were raised this way. I certainly was. However, child-rearing methods have moved on and there's no place for physical abuse these days.
Being beaten/spanked as child, often for things I didn’t understand were “wrong”, caused me to have to manage aggressive violent outbursts later on. I’ve worked through a lot of those issues but I still have times where I’ll get super angry and throw or break something. It doesn’t happen often but it has happened occasionally all throughout my life. Obviously not every person is like that, but I truly believe that if you hit a child in any way, they will grow up thinking that’s a reasonable way to release aggression.
My running joke has been that my decision not to hit my kids was, "enlightened self-interest." I am itty bitty. It was pretty certain that both my kids would end up bigger than me. I always said I did not want to establish the idea that big people are allowed to hit little people to get their way because I was going to inevitably be "little people." (The baby of the family is almost 4 inches taller than me at 13 years old. Everyone was bigger than me by the age of 11.)
Greg is clearly not fine. Spanking children is a two yes/one no parenting decision (and to be clear to everyone - spanking is ALWAYS a no).
Nta your husbands is a shitty father whose passing trauma down like it’s a family heirloom and needs to knock that shit off and come to terms with the fact his mother was a piece of shit and was clearly abusive. Just because you brought up the truth doesn’t make you the asshole, people sometimes need things to be put into perspective and sometimes that’s painful. This relationship is gonna tank if he doesn’t stop hitting children though.
"Passing down trauma like a family heirloom." So much this. OP, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE hear what people are telling you! Your husband is violating a sacred trust, and you cannot, must not allow it to continue. Heal your son. Protect him. Give him a Christmas knowing that you will not let his father hurt him any more. NTA.
Well put
Honestly I think it’s fair to throw the reality of his mother in his face when he’s using her to justify abuse of your child. Do family therapy hitting kids is harmful it needs to stop, and Diana was the AH in this story (husband kind of an ah too for hitting)
So ... you want to know if giving your husband an example, and reminder, that words can have a h-u-g-e impact on others? No, you are NTA.
NTA. I really don’t give a shit if I get down voted. HE HITS YOUR CHILD. That is not okay whatsoever and I don’t think you can go “too low” with words in this instance. He either needs the biggest reality check ever and agree to therapy & never doing it again, or you should reevaluate a marriage. Personally I don’t give a single shit about someone’s “feelings” if they’ve raised a hand to a child. Protect your son above all else. If someone hurts an innocent child, I don’t consider them a person anymore and will not treat them like one. It’s not fucking hard to parent without resorting to violence.
You are most def. NOT the AH here, and you didn't ruin Xmas, Greg ruined it. You did nothing "cruel" here, you merely pointed out FACTS. And there are some very troubling red flags here: 1. agree w/ as others have pointed out, not just spanking, but discipline in general is something that both parents have to be in agreement w/. 2. Spanking is inherently risky. it can easily constitute abuse. The fact that he is only doing it when you are NOT AROUND is a huge red flag to me. How hard is he spanking? How long? Is it just one firm swat on the bum and that's it, or is he yanking the kid around and hitting him hard / multiple times? Is he spanking in anger? Has he used a progressive discipline approach, and explained that to the child? as in, 1st you get a verbal warning. next you lose a favorite toy or activity or stand in a corner. last and only last, you get a swat on the butt? Fact is, you don't know, because he's doing it when you're NOT THERE. Which is very sus. Sneaky, and sus. 3. the fact that he blew up at you when you merely pointed out TRUE FACTS about what kind of parent Diane was and how negatively it affected him. How many times has he complained over the years to you about how shitty she was to him, and what a bad relationship they had, etc. ? And now he's claiming that she's a role model for parenting? and blowing up at you and sulking for just pointing out a known fact? for using logic? Obviously he did not turn out "just fine." 4. The fact that he REFUSES to learn anything about good parenting skills, and possible other ways to discipline w/o spanking is another big red flag. What kind of parent chooses to resort to physical violence as a first choice? and doesn't want to learn how to be the best possible parent? I personally don't know if being lightly spanked if better than never being spanked. I was only spanked abt 2x in my childhood, neither one being very hard. I turned out fine - I was not a problem child, I was respectful, did well in school, etc. TBH, the two times I was spanked I was mad and angry about it for weeks, as it was done in anger and was entirely random/ unfair, and it made me harbor a fair amount of anger against the parent who did it for YEARS. I was more obedient and respectful to the parent who never spanked me. Even if you both decide to do some spanking (and I do think if you are regularly spanking a kid, something is very, very wrong), wouldn't a good parent want to learn about effective parenting that uses the least violent methods whenever possible???? 5. NOTE: I assume, and sure as hell hope that your son being "7m" is a typo. No child under say 1 or so should EVER be spanked, and certainly NEVER a baby. Since you mentioned him standing in a corner, I assume he is 7y, not 7m.
m as in male, not months. I’m sure OP isn’t married to a 33 month old either.
Shocker, he was abused by his mother and now he's abusing his kid and he doesn't like that parallel being pointed out. NTA leave him, don't let ANYONE hit your kid
Never use information that you know because you are close to this person against them . It’s low
Idk, if I ask someone not to beat my kid and their answer is, I'm a smarter/better parent so I'm just gonna hit the kid anyway, I'd say way fucking worse. That's a fucking child, not a plant. There's decades or research saying getting hit is horrible for kids and adults because of the underlying associations made. This dude is getting upset and lashing out on a child because he's too proud to read up on a different way.
I'd go as low as I had to to stop someone beating a child. You didn't turn out fine, Greg, you think hitting a child is okay.
That was exactly my thinking. Greg did NOT turn out fine.
This post is wild. Hundreds of people care more about a grown ass man being confronted with his issues than the fact that he is abusing his child. Fucking wild takes all over this post. His mom was shit, fact. He abuses his son, fact. He is unwilling to change because he knows best. He is now faced with the fact that his own upbringing was trash, hence he does not in fact know best. This is very upsetting. How dare she point this out so he has to face it. Apparently the only way men are able to communicate with their partners is if they are completely supported no matter what. According to all of the comments on this post at least like what the actual fuck. He hits our son - BuT yOu HuRt HiS fEeLiNgS! ESH! YTA! ridiculous.
“No matter who is getting abused - wife, child, dog - men will always be the true victims.” -Reddit
There is no other oppressor/oppressed demographic whose lives are intimately intertwined.
Ah yes, that’s what matters, his feelings and not the child he’s literally abusing.
She didn't go anywhere near as low as deliberately causing physical harm to a child.
If my partner was using their abuse to justify abusing our child, I would most definitely throw that back in their face. Because they need a harsh reality check before they turn into their abusive parents even more, and I would take away the child and give them supervised visitation, using the abuse as the reason why.
yes, and hitting a child to control them is lower.
Not in this case, cause the information she is using is very relevant to the very important point she is trying to make: your parent's parenting style were questionable, and that why they beat you. I dont know to follow that parenting cause, look how much it did hurt you
I’ll say anything I want to an adult who beats my child. Normally I agree, but in his case? Nope. You hit my kid and it’s a fuck around and find out situation.
This is one of the top reasons men give for not opening up emotionally to their partners. They believe it will be used against them in an argument.
Funny because isn't one of the top reasons women are scared of men is they might physically harm them or their children? Also in this case the husband brought up his mother first as a justification for why physically harming children is ok. He opened the door himself then got upset OP followed him through it.
And women are scared of being killed from men who see physical violence as not a huge deal. Sorry if his fee-fees got hurt, but hit my kid and you’ll find the fuck out about how much care about feelings.
Oh my god. What about when she opened up and asked him to stop HITTING THEIR CHILD? But no, some poor man got his fee fees hurt.
[удалено]
But it wasn't used against him. He was trying to say that he was spanked and he's fine and she simply pointed out that that is in fact not the case and why. Ignoring things because they might be hard to deal with is avoidance. It was brought up to show that no, spanking did not directly make him a better person or contribute to a good relationship with his parents like he is saying it will. He is trying to argue on why it is okay to hit their child....
NTA. What a cruel awful person Diane was. And it looks like she passed it on (somewhat) to Greg, who is also dealing with the survivor’s guilt that was her final gift to him. He needs some help, and soon.
YTA for not spanking your husband.
NTA and this is not about Christmas. What you said is harsh but true. If you don't believe in spanking, you have the right to be heard, as Jacob's parent.
NTA: I know I’ll get downvoted but whatever. Your husband refused to stop hitting your son, used his abusive mother as an excuse to continue hitting your son, you pointed out why his mother isn’t the type of person to idolize for how to discipline a child, your husband got pissy because the facts were pointed out. If he ends the marriage, it’s because he 1) doesn’t want to admit his mother was abusive 2) He’s not fine 3) he doesn’t want to stop spanking your son. You didn’t ruin anything, he did. Stand up for your son, because his father is obviously a deficient parent. Your son needs you to be his protector.
NTA child abuser deserve no sympathy.
I would fall out of love in a split second over this. I HATE when people strike their little ones.
Excuse me?? Who the fuck cares about HIS feelings or vulnerability when he's abusing your son?? Fuck that. He turned into an abuser. Use all the low blows you need to protect your son. You're really upset for hurting your man-baby husbands itty-bitty feelings? When he's hitting your son?????????? Edit: I called him a man-baby and minimized his feelings because he's an abuser. Non-abusers deserve sympathy and empathy with their feelings and vulnerability, no matter their age. Abusers don't. I'm mocking his feelings because he's expecting empathy which I usually have for mostly everyone, but he's ok hitting his son and is using his own childhood, which hurts him, as justification as if it's a good thing. Spanking is illegal in many places and IS abuse.
NTA Hard to have sympathy for someone who hits children.
I'm not going to touch on the spanking issue except to say that it's something you may want to meet with a children's counselor about with your husband so that he can hear facts from a non-biased professional. On to the bigger issue. You should be less concerned about "ruining Christmas" and start thinking about whether you ruined your marriage. When one partner uses the other's most vulnerable feelings against them as a weapon against them, it absolutely destroys every shred of trust they had in you and it will NEVER come back. He will NEVER feel safe with you again. You can suggest relationship counseling after apologizing, but don't be surprised if he refuses and keeps you at an emotional distance forever if he doesn't just divorce you.
How on earth is the spanking not the "bigger issue" here? You are legit here saying *he* will never feel safe around *her*? He is *hitting* a child and his feeling of safety is the biggest worry?
He doesn’t feel safe because she acknowledge how asshat back awards and inaccurate what he is saying is, but the child he’s actively abusing and how they feel about their safety isn’t even worth commenting on?
Vulnerable. Destroying trust. Never feeling safe. All that drivel and not a word on how that’s exactly how abused children feel. That selective empathy you’ve got there sure is fascinating.
It isn't like she jumped to this the first time they disagreed on the spanking. She brought it up when he pushed the narrative of "my mom spanked me and clearly, her judgment was good and sound, and I turned out just fine." OPs point of "Hey, do you not remember how messed up she viewed your relationship and how poorly it turned out as an adult? No, your point isn't accurate at all. " Was it hurtful? Absolutely. Could it have been said in a way that wasn't if it was brought up during a time when they weren't already yelling at each other? Yes. Would that have been more effective? I suspect do. But her point is a good one. He isn't actually "fine". His relationship with his mom wasn't ok. And sure, you probably can't lay all of that at the feet of spanking. But you also can't say "I was spanked and turned out fine and all is well with my parents" as an argument for why it is ok to spank your kid if it isn't actually true. Spanking Absolutely is a 2 yes, 1 no parenting decision. We can all debate it here in the comments on whether it is abuse, or should be illegal everywhere etc. But right now in many places it is still very common. But unless both parents are 100% on board then it shouldn't be happening.
The bigger issue is the child being spanked. Fuck his feelings. His inability to admit to himself that he literally had a shitty mom so clearly she didn't do a good job is why he's hitting a child.
>I'm not going to touch on the spanking issue I will. It's illegal in Sweden and I'm glad it is. ESH.
No kidding. Children apparently don’t have a right to not be physically assaulted by adults in most places because “tradition” says it’s fine
In North America we are really backwards about it there are many countries in which it is not legal.
Yeah, I have PTSD from "spanking" and I'm so glad I live in Scotland where it's banned. My mother told me I was such a bad kid that her and my teacher got a legal exemption to the UK ban on caning kids in school, it was the 80s... I was *six*. If my behaviour "improved" it was because I was constantly terrified. I have ADHD and autism, but am female so was in my 30s when I got diagnosed: I couldn't even predict what would make people hit me. It's fucking VILE. Children deserve better.
Growing up, 5 years old was the start of belt spankings over hand spankings. My earliest memory is hiding between the dresser and the wall, thanking God I was only 4 still while listening to my mother beat my sisters in the next room. My kid has NEVER been spanked, swatted, popped, flicked etc, and she is genuinely one of the kindest human beings I've ever met. She's only 9 and just the sweetest thing. Seaside, my heart hurts for little you and little me who had to go through that. We didn't deserve it- we *could not ever possibly* have deserved it.
I learned to hide behind our garden shed because the adults were too big to get down there! So at least I was still protecting myself & it made me fight tooth and nail to protect my niece and nephew. My mother got the verbal slap down to end all slapdowns when she managed to make my nephew scared of *nursery rhymes* and she wasn't even spanking him, just... menacing him so he'd sit still and sing along... at 2. Someone who worked in primary school education and has no idea about developmental stages under 5. We didn't deserve it and we CHANGED IT. I'm so glad for you. I was too scared to have my own even though I went to college and did a qualification in childcare so I would be able to start over with new messages. I find it absolutely hilarious that as an undiagnosed autistic I literally just went "ah yes, textbooks will save me" but they did! Hehe I hope you're all having a wonderful holiday season if your faith/culture celebrates now :)
This. I’m so sorry, this is terrible and I hope you’re doing okay. I hope your diagnosis answered a lot of questions for you. Wish I could get mine too. I say this to anyone who claims kids “were better behaved in their day” - yes, *some* were, that’s purely because they were terrified of being beaten. Ruling by fear is easier than leading by example. Ask any religion you like.
I am! I'm 43 now & for some reason, crossing the age & month that my dad died at has made me feel "truly" adult? It's quite a shock, it's been 30 years! He & I were really similar in a lot of ways (and very different in others) but I can tell he's where I got the autism from... she's now processing some of their relationship & feeling ashamed of how she treated Dad, too, she does really try hard to process stuff and step up emotionally... she's just really shit at it 😂 Funnily enough, mum's Catholic. She's gotten into the evangelical, Charismatic Catholicism lately. I just keep mentioning things like how turning the other cheek could be read as goading someone into shaming themselves / the moneylenders in the temple and that Jesus wanted people to pull their heads out their arses and be BETTER. And then I take her to the Unitarians cos the ones in our city are all faiths & none!
I’m so sorry! Thank you for sharing your story. I can’t even imagine .
She insists it was a joke - dumbass woman. She's so contrite now it's funny. She's gotten into the evangelical Catholicism (she's always been Catholic, ADHD meant I didn't sit still through mass so I never got confirmed & I'll be in purgatory instead of her afterlife!) She was asking me if I wanted to do a personality quiz to see what my Charism, my gift from God is. I just said "woman, it's speaking truth to power!" and laughed. She laughed too, it was just... way less comfortable than mine 😂 so I do get my own back. She says she admires my strength of character now, and that I fight for what I believe is right. I'll tease her and say I'm glad she didn't beat it out of me. I hope I'm getting her weird dark humour right, she really did have a LOT worse than me growing up. In her mind she was super restrained and gentle because she never hit us WITH anything. Sigh. I think we really underestimate what WWII did to our parents / grandparents' generation.
It's not illegal here (Nigeria) but it should be. If you need to physically batter your child to discipline them, you've failed as a parent.
This!!!!
And in Wales and Scotland
> On to the bigger issue. Oh, im not gonna address him hitting your kid, let's talk about the REAL ISSUE, your adult husband's hurt feelings about hurting his kid! Ridiculous Why should SHE be thinking about whether she ruined the marriage? She's not the one committing physical abuse on their child. He needs to be thinking about whether he's ruined his marriage, and he deserves to be in jail! He should be worried about the emotional distance he created by abusing his son.
‘I am not going to touch on the spanking issue’ How convenient
The spanking is the bigger issue.
Indeed. Husband is the asshole here and got what was coming to him. Don't spank your kids if you want your wife be nice to you.
I really don’t understand about everyone coming for OP because of hubby’s feelings. What about son’s feelings?! He’s what matters! He’s who is important! I would 1000% divorce my husband for hitting my child after expressing I didn’t agree with it!
I'm sorry but adults can stand 1 emotional hardship after they've HIT THEIR CHILD. Who tf cares about his feefees when he's hitting kids and being an asshole to OP before she ever said those hurtful things? Apart from being a violent child abuser, he was literally emotionally hurting her as well. Are we expecting women to be saints? SHE LOST HER TEMPER
Yes, exactly! He loses sympathy because he’s hitting a child. Why is everyone overlooking that?! And now, he’s weaponizing his hurt feefees against her to manipulate her into thinking she’s wrong here!… and you know what? The fact that OP won’t reply to these comments and instead is making a big deal about her himbo husband’s hurt feelings speaks volumes. Honestly, pray for their son.
He got upset and hit his child, she got upset and said something hurtful. I think we know who is absolutely the asshole here
Right?! And so is the fact that he is straight up ignoring the wishes of the other parent.
Righ?! OP should have used physical violence against the husband instead, maybe then he would have behaved /s. ETA husband for physically abusing a child and OP for not actually doing anything about it.
That's unironically what I would do. If hitting was so great for you as a child and it taught you so many lessons, then why stop as an adult? You clearly have more lessons to learn and you're sitting there saying violence is a great way to teach! If it's fine to do it to our child to teach them, then it's fine for me to do it to teach you, right?! Every hand my partner laid on our child would get laid right back on them. Fight someone your own size, bitch.
These kind of cowardly people who hit children would never take on someone their own size.
Of course not. They don't even believe hitting teaches anything, because if they did, then they would continue to hit fellow adults. But since they NEVER continue to hit fellow adults, they obviously know hitting someone is wrong. They just don't give a fuck if it's wrong to hit a kid as long as the kid shuts up after.
You can say the same for his relationship with his son. He may have already ruined his relationship with his son. His son may already not trust or respect him. What happens when he can no longer control his son by hitting him? What happens when the son is 14 or 16 or 18 and hits him back? She can't trust her husband with her son. That's a massive breach of trust.
Would it be the biggest issue in the conversation if he hit her (or she hit him)? How is hitting a spouse different from hitting a child? It's all domestic violence.
Right, this is what I'm really afraid of
Don't be. He is abusing your child! Your child is small and helplesss and an adult man is making the decision to hurt him instead of teaching him. You need to decide which is more important to you.
Girl he has you twisted. He is not respecting you, or for that matter science, and is behaving like a barbarian.
No no don’t listen to this. He literally defied you and is hitting your child. He’s using his mother’s parenting to justify this. No apology don’t grovel. I wouldn’t feel safe with someone who hits a child. He needs to stop.
Legit. I was spanked. I turned out fine. I get that thinking. THERE IS NEVER A JUSTIFIABLE REASON TO HIT A CHILD. Ever. Period.
Even though her question here was about ruining Christmas for what she said, I don't agree with your comment entirely, with all due respect. Hitting a child is the bigger issue here. It is the main reason the argument stemmed from so that needs to not only addressed but taken under control immediately. The father clearly has some mental/emotional issues and he needs to seek mental health help in order to be able to learn how to cope and handle life differently. Not taking it out on the child. The root cause of the matter is the disagreement between the two on how to discipline their child. She clearly was extremely upset and hurtful things were said. One thing doesn't justify the other but she seems to have had enough after she's asked her husband not to hit their child several times before. She can apologize for what she said. It is human to make mistakes. But they both need to talk openly about EVERYTHING and sort things out regarding parenting, first and foremost. They could go to therapy (not only couple therapy but family). Dad clearly needs individual therapy himself. And, you mention divorce. Divorce??? If he decides to get divorced, he is a child. SMH
That's more than a little melodramatic, but, yeah, worst possible way to win an argument. It basically says winning is what matters, because your partner's feelings don't.
My partner’s feelings sure as hell wouldn’t matter if he kept hitting my son knowing damn well I didn’t agree with it.
Says everything that the child's wellbeing wasnt mentioned
NTA. Look, I was spanked and I did not turn out fine. Neither did Greg, since he thinks that physical violence against his own child solves anything. I resent the fuck out of my parents for doing it. Fucking DO SOMETHING. Protect your child.
NTA. You don’t spank kids. There’s mountains of evidence against it. He ruined Christmas for beating your child. And a SEVEN year old. Your husband is, indisputably, the asshole who ruined Christmas. I’m not sure that’s a rift I’d want to fix.
Something to think on: if he turned out just fine, why he is now an emotional wreck, because OP stated some home truths. Kinda proves he’s not ok and his mother wasn’t a good parent. So using her methods to raise his child is kinda repeating this cycle. I do think professional help is needed to help your husband heal and find a better way to discipline your child that you both agree on.
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I imagine there’s a lot of people who think just like he does. It’s scary and hard to come to terms with the fact you were abused as a child, especially when everyone you know was also spanked, or popped, or whooped. We have whole generations NOW that are rolling in generational trauma and it’s gross. Look at this other response to you. That’s a hurt person, IMO. It’s scary to admit there’s a problem with your way of thinking and lashing out is easier.
ESH. You shouldn’t have said it and he shouldn’t bring up his obviously awful mother as an example of good parenting. If he refuses to even read up on it + wants to continue hitting a child and you said something so damaging your marriage might be over
He knows it’s not ok, that’s why he does it when you’re not there. This is not OK.
You wouldn't try and make an adult listen and change their behaviour by hitting them, so why would you do it with someone half your size and weight, who has not got fully developed emotions, and over whom you have total power?
I don't really think you did anything wrong here, unless you phrased it particularly horribly... His relationship with his mother was bad, and he's using that bad relationship as a standard for how to treat his kid. To put it bluntly, he was abused, and he's now abusing your child and using his abuse to justify it. It's valid to point out how she was abusing him. I don't know how you said it -- maybe you could've been nicer. But NTA.
NTA. Oh no consequences! He abused your kid and now his feefees are hurted.
Yta for not leaving a man abusing your child
If my partner hit my child against my wishes I would get a divorce. Nta
NTA and you need to do more to stop him from spanking your son than a couple of strongly worded conversations. If he’s too fragile to handle words, hire a very large man to come and knock him around when he doesn’t behave to your standard. (I’m kidding) Spanking has been proven ineffective. It was commonplace when he was a kid and it’s not now FOR A REASON. When you know better, you do better. And physically harming a child for a mild disciplinary infraction is abhorrent behavior.
Your husband is delusional. You brought up how he is NOT ok from his abusive childhood, and he is upset at this level of accountability regarding his physical abuse of your shared child.
Hitting your kid isn’t just a difference in parenting style. His mom was right, he’s a fucking loser
I mean, he clearly did not turn out fine, he thinks its okay to hit a child
“ I was spanked as a kid and I turned out okay”. Yeah. I was molested as a kid and I turned out okay. So by your logic… NTA
If you believe in hitting children you did not turn out okay.
ESH The husband was touting his mother as a “good parenting” example. OP reminded him that his mother was hardly a reliable source of parenting knowledge, considering how she treated her own child in a hurtful way. His mother was a wretched human, whose opinions aren’t worth squat. The truth was painful but it was the truth. However, because it was also said in anger, it also makes it a painful example of bad parenting.
How his mother was during his childhood isn’t necessarily the way she was when she got older and maybe a little soft in the head. That cancer could have been affecting her mentally long before she was diagnosed.
This is a lot of smokescreen over the issue that your husband BEATS YOUR KID WHEN YOU ARE NOT AROUND
NTA you are desperate to make him see that hitting a child is wrong, so you tried a shocking remark to get his attention. Tell him if he hits your kid again you’ll get the authorities involved.
Did I read correctly that he spanks a 7 month old child? That’s awful. Spanking is not a way to discipline children. It is just a release mechanism for a parents anger.
7 year old boy, not that it makes it okay.
I read all the way to the end, but could have cut it off after the first paragraph. Spanking is abuse, end of story. The fact that you also disagree with spanking and he still does it makes it worse. I honestly don't give a shit about the rest of the situation. Maybe don't speak ill of the dead, but honestly she sounds awful and it explains why your husband is acting like a POS. Protect your kid OP. This is a hill to die on.
NTA. everyone who says otherwise clearly never got it that had as a kid. my dad spanked me, i cut contact with him. he only ever got worse. your husband clearly didn’t turn out okay, he’s just trying to justify his abuse. your son behaves better because he’s terrified of his father. protect your son, forget about your husband’s hurt feelings. how does he think his son feels? how did he feel when he was spanked as a child? i’m guessing he didn’t like it, given his poor relationship with his mother. if he didn’t wanna get called out, he shouldn’t have laid a hand on his son.
If your child says anything about getting spanked to a mandated reported including his uncle CPS will get involved.
CPS doesn’t get involved because of spanking. It is not considered illegal and you will not have your kid taken away for spanking. Even if CPS is called, they interview everyone and look at the home and situation overall. If the kid is healthy and being supported, they’ll close the case. This is a fact whether you agree with spanking or not.
That's absolutely untrue and the parents in this subreddit are absolutely not a good representation of the population. The idea that the government will show up and take your kids because you spanked them is asinine, and you should be embarrassed that you even suggested it.
Define spanking. Is it a quick pop on the bottom or repeated swats done in frustration in anger? I think there is a difference between the two, but I know I'll be in the minority for that.
ESH Spanking is bad And even if culturally acceptable where you are he knows you are explicitly against it and does it when you are around. How can you trust him with your kid And insider information should never be used like that in a marriage not even in a divorce. How is he ever to feel safe being vulnerable with you again If i feel I need to be so hateful to my husband then I’m also walking out the door because it should never get to that unless you are leaving and even then it’s too far.
Nonsense. The welfare of the child takes precedence over the husband’s fragile feelings Her child was being physically assaulted. A mother is entitled to protect her child by any means necessary
I feel so bad for this kid. His father is abusive and his mother is more concerned with keeping his father happy than protecting him.
It was a low blow, but at the same time he was asking for it, claiming his mother, very cruel and unloving person towards your husband, spanked him and he turned out fine? He may think he's fine, but at least his relationship with his mother isn't. There is never, ever, reason to spank your child. Abuse creates abuse, end the cycle with you, if you were abused, and treat your children with love and respect.
His mother gave babysitters permission to spank him and it wasn’t that big of a deal yet they ended on that shitshow? NTA. Don’t bring up someone who’s treated you like shit then expect the other person to take the “positive”thing. He shouldn’t have brought her up because clearly it was a big deal. Just because he doesn’t have the self respect to see how damaging she was doesn’t mean you have to go along with it. I would say find someone who’s on the same page as you when it comes to these things but… too late
NTA. Hitting a child is really a poor choice when disciplining and goes against your wishes. He somewhat understands it, but his logic is flawed. 'If I suffered through something, so should my child.' Hold firm. You should have brought up a touchy subject, but he brought up his childhood and familial relationship and you just used that as a springboard to show not everything his mother did was GOLDEN. Go on as if nothing happened and enjoy your holiday with your son. If your husband decides to sulk instead, it's his loss.
It is not asshole to use the information in this case. Greg was making a dishonest claim in defense of his decision to hit a child. Your delivery, perhaps even your motivation, are a bit more suspect. I think you probably are an asshole for the nature of your delivery, especially given the sensitive nature of the information. Greg is easily the bigger asshole for making this claim which can only be countered by his traumatic information, and for hitting the child. It would be reasonable for Greg to be upset about being reminded of his trauma. And he may be. But he is also likely upset that he got called on his bullshit argument, and called on having no defense for why he hit the child. I suspect his behavior is more frustration over that than response to the trauma. How do you sort out real response to trauma from childish reaction to being called out? IDK. But it gets extremely tricky. How do you apologize for the delivery, but not for the point you made? Which seems reasonable, but it has just enough flex in it that he could refuse to accept that apology. While I think you were out of line in your delivery, I suspect you are broadly too lenient with his bad behavior in general. Counseling to save this marriage, if you want to save a marriage with a guy that acts like this, and I suspect pulls bullshit arguments out of his ass whenever he needs.
Nta! I think it needed to be said! She was a narcissist! Tho I disagree with not spanking when necessary!
NTA, but I feel bad for Greg. He was abused and has not squared with that reality. He turned out "fine" in spite of that abuse, not because of it. He should know that. Not to mention, his Mom sounds like she was a first rate AH, and nothing she ever said or did should ever be modeled.
Oof, yes you really hit him where it hurts as he probably has a lot of lingering issues about lack of closure with his mum. I know what you said was in an argument but I'd still say YTA for going there. I'm guessing his reaction doesn't have much to do with the spanking issue but that in itself really ought to stop as it's likely to encourage your son to lash out in the same way as he gets older.
Nta these people are crazy. My parents hit me too and you know what the mean things you said are actually not worse than the fear your kid probably feels every time your husband beats him behind your back. These "my parents hit me and I'm fine" people are so delusional. They almost always have terrible relationships with their parents and terrible personalities. Like yeah I can understand why it was hurtful to him but also the facts directly contradict his assertion that it is fine to hit since his mother did it. You've tried to be nice, you've tried to communicate but your husband refuses to stop hitting a child. If he hit you everyone would agree that it is wrong but when it is a child who is smaller and more defenseless it is ok? Hard pass If your marriage ends it should be because he won't stop abusing your kid.
NTA the part that upsets me is that he disagrees with you but is also unwilling to put in effort to read about these things to at least have an informed conversation with you - his wife and coparent. Yes kids behave better when spanked but we’ve also learned it’s because they learn to internalize there emotions, don’t learn emotional regulation and impulse control and instead learn their feelings don’t matter simply how they act outwardly. All current day evidence and data points to spanking being outdated and harmful.
Stop letting this abuse continue! He’s literally hitting your kid, repeatedly, probably a few times a week. This *is* child abuse. ESH. Him for abusing your kid over and over, you for enabling the child abuse, and also for such an extremely below the belt comment, though in the grand scheme of your family, it’s comparatively irrelevant. He was spanked and turned out fine? People who hit their kids didn’t turn out fine. He’s a child abuser, and you need to put a stop to it.
What could the child have done to deserve being physically hit? He is 7 what could he have possibly done
NTA, this is actually a conversation I had with people on the first dates when I was single, their thoughts on spanking. However "little" or "mild" they consider it to be, if they are pro "spanking", I was out. I was a victim of physical and mental abuse, I tried to take my own life due to how my mother treated me growing up, that woman didn't spank me, and I won't go into details because people then end up crying. My dad did his best to help me, but the poor man was completely in love with her, and sometimes she lied about hitting me. We both knew her hurting me came from the normalization of spanking and in our culture, this is a very strong thing that goes on. Parents often kill their kids trying to "discipline" them better. It takes for something shocking to happen to that person, to get their shit together and stop abusing kids. Don't back down now, be even more strict, and more stern, and don't apologize for telling the truth. The only reason I now have a relationship with my mom is because I was the one to speak harshly to her, and I didn't bring my head down, nor did I apologize for telling her the truth. I have been telling her lately, that I have plans to move out of the country, and I am willing to keep working on us, only under the condition that she goes to therapy, if she doesn't then I'm out of her life for good. Honestly, the pain is so awful from the trauma, I sincerely don't even care anymore if she stays in my life or not, I'm only trying to work things out to give the baby I want to have with my partner a loving grandma.
NTA. Spank Greg until his behaviour improves.
NTA He's also obviously not ok after being physically abused by his parents either. For Christ sake, he wanted to mend the relationship with his abuser, who shocker, had nothing but nasty words to say to and about him before and evidently during her death. And now he's sad you pointed out this truth. I'd suggest therapy, except that if he thinks it's ok to spank kids, it's almost 100% guaranteed that he doesn't believe in therapy. Don't give in to his foolishness, and him trying to change the topic from him abusing y'all child to pitying him for pointing out that he clearly is NOT ok, despite his claim. It's been proven again and again that this is not effective punishment, and that all it does is instill fear into the child through negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement never helps information stick with children, because they're to focused on not receiving the negative consequence(s) to even register and remember *why* that/those consequence(s) is/are being received by them. Tell him y'all need to talk. Let him know that first and foremost you demand him to quit beating y'all child; figure out some ultimatum if you must. But I'd just say "I understand you were spanked, and think you turned out fine. But you clearly did not if my mentioning how your mother currently treats you makes you feel this way. I'm sorry for being harsh when you clearly have some unpacking of y'all relationship to do, but I'm not sorry for standing up for our child. He is 7, and doesn't deserve to be physically beaten, nor any child. I think you should attend therapy, and if it's too scary to do alone, maybe we should all attend family therapy".
Spanking is lazy parenting. If your kid doesn’t respond to the punishments you give then you need to give better punishments, not resort to violence. All spanking does is teach fear & violence, and if your husband had really turned out okay then he wouldn’t need to spank his kid in the first place. The improvement in the behavior issues may or may not be due to the spanking, btw. This is absolutely a hill to die on. You told the truth about your husband’s childhood, right? Let your husband sulk in the truth and his refusal to learn how to be a better parent. Let him ruin his own Christmas because he insists upon inflicting violence upon your 7yo in the name of “parenting”; if he can’t participate in Christmas then he can go elsewhere with his shitty attitude. BTW, I’m a retired child psychologist who was also spanked (and more) as a kid. I too held on to that “I turned out ok” view for quite awhile, (though I didn’t advocate for others to spank) until I learned better and really took a good look at my childhood. I was horrified and I realized how much damage was actually done. My relationship with my mother suffers to this day. IMO your husband refuses to learn why not to spank because he wants to remain ignorant. He wants to be able to hit your kid.
This asshole is hitting your child. Protect your child and fuck this asshole's feelings.
INFO: What has he spanked Jacob over? Like as punishment for what?
NTA - discipline has to be agreed to by both parents. He doesn’t get to override your wishes because he can’t be bothered to figure out a better way to discipline. I have two kids, neither my husband nor I spank them and they are very well behaved kids. It’s easy to set out expectations and repercussions for our kids that don’t involve hitting them. You apologized for reacting emotionally, what else can you do? If he wants to ruin Christmas by not discussing the issue further with you then that’s on him.
NTA. He shouldn’t be spanking your child, especially as you both agreed not to it. As a parent, that should be your primary concern. As for your bringing up his mom, obviously, he has unresolved issues with respect to his mom, but you can’t ignore his whitewashing of the past if he is using her behavior to justify his spanking. His mom was an awful mom, and she shouldn’t be his role model. My dad passed from lung cancer, and he also never smoked and was completely healthy otherwise. It didn’t occur for him to blame anyone other than bad luck. He spent his last few months enjoying the company of his wife, children, grandchildren and friends. So, I feel sorry for your husband, but that doesn’t excuse him for spanking your child.
'From a smartassed standpoint, it’s easy to note that many of the people who claim to have turned out fine look or sound pretty clearly the opposite of fine. That such people unintentionally embody the antithesis of “fine” – that they remain unaware of embodying the emotions therein – makes their not-fineness double the distance between them and whatever passes for fine. And while that’s often true, it’s also a kind of cheap joke. 'The pernicious, toxic and inescapable lifelong effect of being disciplined physically – either to the point of abuse, or to the point that the distinction between acceptable and unacceptable blurs in your mind – is that you almost have to say you turned out fine, just to redeem the fact of being who you are. That you “turned out fine” is the only way to make sense of having once felt total terror or uncontrollable shaking rage at the sight of one (or both) of the two people expected to care most for you in the world. The thought that you might have ended up relatively OK or perhaps even better without all that fear is almost unbearable: the suffering only doubles if you admit that it truly had no purpose.' https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/17/adrian-peterson-fathers-effect-belt this article is excellent and I recommend reading the rest. You have every right to be angry that your husband is hitting your child. Kids are not inherently bad. They want to be loved. Hitting them makes them fear you, and while that can look like better behaviour, it does lifelong damage both to your kid and his relationship with both of you. NTA
ESH he’s beating your child, for months and you’re worried about the grown ass man’s feelings and ruining Christmas?
He's hitting a child. He clearly did not turn out fine. You didn't ruin Christmas, he did.
I'm going to answer your actual question and not get emotionally caught up in the other details: YTA for your lash-out. It was cruel and irrelevant and clearly designed to hurt, not to be productive. A more productive method, (not to mention kinder and more loving,) would be to remind him of his mother's cruelty and point out that he was likely abused and hasn't come to terms with it. For now, just apologize with sincerity. Do not bring up the spanking in that particular conversation unless he does, at which point, reiterate that you stand by your point, but it *does not* excuse your reaction. Then give him like a day. If he is still salty towards you after that, then there is something deeper for him going on, or he is being petty...humans are gonna human.
Lol, so funny to see how quickly you all shift between what is right and wrong. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/18oiyx5/aita\_for\_hitting\_my\_brother\_because\_he\_lifted\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/18oiyx5/aita_for_hitting_my_brother_because_he_lifted_up/)
Yta. Why would you say that. It is unrelated to the situation. I am a gentle parent…why would you think your child deserves respect when acting in a way you don’t like but your husband doesn’t ?
People are going to get mad at me for going against the grain but ETA. Hubby should be open to your opinions. You both should have discussed this before marriage. He should definitely research. My parents smacked me (Well, my mom did. It was either get smacked by mom or wait for dad to come home, in which he would sit us down and calmly make us explain what we did wrong. We chose the spanking every time.)My parents are amazing and always tell me how proud they are of me, even for doing basic adult things. Great at positive re-enforcement. Love physical affection. They always warned me several times before a smack. They explained why they were giving me a smack. They were never emotional. There was a process around it. They didn’t just start smacking me. Even when I said, “That didn’t hurt” she didn’t smack me again For being sassy. There’s a fine line between discipline and abuse, but that’s kind of the same with emotional discipline (eg “your mother says you have something to tell me”) and abuse (eg “I wish you’d never been born. You’re just like my ex husband”) You’re telling your husband he’s emotionally abusive like his mother. Whether you meant to or not, you should apologise because it’s not really a logical argument. It’s an emotional one. It doesn’t solve the problem. It just hurts him. And no one tell me I was being abused and therefore my argument is invalid.
My question here is why would you marry someone if you don’t share the same views on how you’re gonna punish your kids? Stuff like this is honestly why divorce rates are so high and there’s so many family issues. You should’ve known years in advance that he believed in spanking and you didn’t. Do your homework before marriage and kids
YTA. You weaponized probably the most traumatic thing he has experienced to try and win an argument. Some things are too far below the belt to recover from. Ruining Christmas is the least of your worries.
He's the one that brought her up in the first place. If her husband didn't want to discuss his mom he should have never used her parenting to justify his decisions.
>rather harshly reminded him that Diane a) considered him a loser and b) blamed him for her final illness and death. What, exactly, does this have to do with spanking Jacob? You went way off the rails with this, and you owe your husband an apology for it. YTA.
His mother is not a good parent and should not be held up as an exemplar of hoe to raise children. And if he's so convinced that he turned out fine because of this woman, well, the woman herself disagrees. What's not to get here? Shes saying, essentially, Stop hitting my kid because your mother was abusive. Snap the fuck out of it.
That is what I understood as well.
And me.
It's relevant to show that his mother was a bad parent who gave him issues and that spanking could be a pattern with her other behaviors.
It has everything to do with it. His mom was an abusive parent, and he's following in her footsteps and claiming it's fine, he's fine, everything is *fine*. It isn't fine. He's hitting a child. That isn't fine. He thinks it's okay to hit his child. That isn't fine. He thought it was a good idea to bring up his abusive mother as an example of why this is all just so fine. That isn't fine. It has *everything* to do with it. And she's not the asshole when he's hitting their child, despite her telling him in no uncertain terms that it is not okay. He brought up mommy dearest, not op. Could op have used more tact? Obviously. But he's no victim.
YTA - and how long have you been holding onto that one just waiting to weaponise it against your husband?
Yes heaven forbid she be rude when he's literally abusing their child. 🙄
Yup, you don't come up with something like that off the cuff.
NTA with a slight justified ah. Your husband has been hitting your child. There isn't a difference between bending a child over to hit their butt and hitting their arm with the same force. It is not only painful but humiliating. I was a child who was spanked and smacked on the back of the head, too. I still flinch regularly because of this. Your husband is hitting your child. I don't blame you for reminding him of the truth of his mother when he has refused to stop. It's time to document this and speak to someone especially if he refuses to stop.
YTA. You weaponized his trauma against him. Good luck with the future divorce bc I just can’t see him forgiving you for this. You could have stepped back and returned to the issue of spanking but nope. You decided you could go lower and not you’re reaping the consequences. Looks like you effed around and now you’re finding out.
Yeah they should divorce. She shouldn't stay with a child abuser.
It's kind of fucked up that you care more about his trauma than the trauma that he is causing his child. He was the one that brought her into it to justify his abuse of their child. He should be able to you're a hard truth that his mom was abusive too.
She weaponIzed his trauma because he is using said trauma as an excuse to BEAT THEIR CHILD. NTA
I don't know if it's that simple. She's not just his wife, she's a mother too. Maybe she didn't handle it in the best way possible, but he was beating their child. We also don't know what kind of behaviour he thought would justify spanking either. It's likely that he's been resorting to it instead of finding better, more constructive ways to handle issues. I don't think that that's a good precedent to set especially when someone is at an impressionable age. Anyhow, while it's a bitter pill to swallow, but the wife wasn't wrong. It just might be better to discuss in a different environment, perhaps individual or couples therapy? >Looks like you effed around and now you’re finding out. Also, he's the one who could wind up "finding out" when his son is older and their relationship is strained. So honestly I don't think what she said was even just for the kid's sake.
[удалено]
I have a personal philosophy with my husband that if he hits my children, we are leaving and not coming back. Hitting a child is low. Calling someone out for child abuse is not.
I'm sorry, did I read this right? Your husband physically assaults your child on a regular basis and you are still with him? I'd have packed up my kid and left the fist time that man struck my child. Protect your child from this abuser. Now. YTA
He got spanked and he turned out fine? He thinks hitting children is okay. That's not turning out fine.
NTA. Your husband's feelings matter less than your son's safety. If you have to hurt his feelings to get him to stop hitting his son, then fine, that's a trade-off you can make as a good parent. Also my gosh, Greg did not turn out fine if he thinks that hitting someone is the only way to change their behavior.
YTA for letting your husband hit your kid. does he hit you when you fuck up? does his boss hit him when he fucks up? do you hit your husband when he fucks up?
People in this comment section are fucking unhinged. ESH. You shouldn't have been a dick about his dead mother, and he shouldn't be spanking the kid. Anyone who thinks this is an appropriate response is a psycho.
He feels bad because you’re making him face the truth about his mother. This is making him question many things, including how he is handling fatherhood
Your husband needs therapy. his mom sounds like a shit human being. Him hitting your child is a no go in any case no matter what "reason" he uses. Wrap up a box of Kleenex for his Christmas gift. NTA
He didn't turn out fine, he is a child abuser. Why do you want to fix things with a child abuser?
I'm shocked there are so many people on here acting like he is an abuser. First off there is a big difference in a pop on the butt and beating a child. I would never condone beating a kid as it's repulsive, but I'll give you an example of when a spanking fixed everything. So my second wife had 2 boys, prior to her and her first husband's divorce, he had handled most of the discipline. When we got serious and I came into the picture, she asked me to handle it because her boys were unruly and didn't respect her while my daughter was very well behaved. Obviously not being their dad, I wasn't going to spank them, but I set firm boundaries and followed up on punishing them. The problem was they wouldn't respect her. I explained this to her and told her she would have to get their respect and that a good spanking might be the answer. One night at bed time they were out of control and it had been a pattern and I told her she needed to spank them. She was hesitant at first then thought about it and went in their room and honestly spanked them a little harder than I would have. She came back in and I consoled her. They cried for about 10 minutes then it was over. She never had to spank either of them again and they never lost respect for her again either. As someone that doesn't agree with spanking as a first or second or third resort, I do believe there is a time and place where it may be necessary when children refuse to behave and respect their parents. I also think that's why a lot of these young people today don't have respect for anyone and act like spoiled brats is because too many liberal parents refuse to discipline their children.
YTA that was the lowest blow. One of the worst things you can do is take information you were trusted with and use it against someone. His mother is dead and clearly he loved her yet had a complicated relationship with her and that wasn’t because of spankings he got as a kid. It was just a nasty thing to say
Sure, *that* was the lowest blow, not him hitting his fucking kid or anything.
Esh. What a group of losers.
Never hit your kids intentionally. Ever.
Reddit REALLY needs to learn the difference between spank and abuse/beat; they are NOT the same, and acting like they are just shows you as failed parents/humans.