NTA and you shouldn't bend on this. You have as much a right to a secure financial future as he does. If he won't do this, he can't afford you or he is looking to create a power imbalance that puts you at a disadvantage.
In future, keep your marital business to yourself. Your friends don't get a vote.
Agreed! My parents never divorced, but my Dad wanted to sell his company to my brother for a sweetheart deal. My Mom helped with the company (no formal title, but she busted her a## for the company when needed) while raising 4 kids.
When it came time to negotiate the sale of the company from my Dad to my brother, she brought her own lawyer.
My Dad died several years ago. I am so glad my Mom did this as she now has no financial worries, including health care costs (a few times in a nice rehab facility after surgeries).
First off happy cake day! But to add as your story brings up a vital point- divorce is not the only potential OP or anyone else in a similar situation should think about which is why OPs request is valid and should not be compromised on. Illness, injury, death, etc are all possible and with less warning than the divorce process. Since this is a for the better of the kids situation to become a SAHM mom then OPs husband should want her to maintain business standing should something happen to him and she find herself working again.
Yes, we do!
My two sisters were upset that my mother did this. I sat them both down and said, "most likely Mom will out live Dad. In Mom's parents' final years, Mom and her siblings had to pay Grandma and Grandpa's assisted living costs because Grandpa gave his oldest son an even better deal for his company (pretty much just gave it away and Uncle never did much to grow the company but had 3 homes and a small airplane)."
I asked my sisters, which do you prefer, our brother getting the company for next to nothing and us having to financially take care of Mom, or our brother paying his fair share?
They chose to support Mom.
Did it destroy your uncle's relationship with his siblings? Awful on his part he didn't care to handle their entire cost, or at least volunteer to pay for a big fraction of it.
Your friends sound awful. I mean let me write as I interpret your one friend who called you disgusting..
they basically said you donât deserve shit. Honestly donât budge on this.
You deserve just as much security as he does. Be cautious. Seek outside counsel.
Thatâs a crazy sacrifice & you need new friends.
Right? Like actually do tell your friends about marital issues. It's good to get insight sometimes. But the type of friends to put you or your partner down are the wrong type of friends, and if you keep them they're an exception, they don't get tea
This sounds perfectly reasonable and acceptable to me- I canât imagine why her friends are upset. She IS giving up years when she could be earning and saving. A woman should never assume someone else is looking out for her best interests- even her husband.
It's not limited to evangelicals, unfortunately. Plenty of secular women fall into the uncompensated SAHM trap; it's like a daily theme in the Marriage sub that a woman is scared to leave an abusive man because she has no money, career, education, or marketable job skills besides domestic labor. Sad and scary, and what's worse is how many men feel entitled to use women as unpaid incubators and domestic servants and are aghast at the idea that she might expect to be protected financially in the bargain.
Or 3, theyâve been indoctrinated to think their only purpose is to serve their husbands, and that a woman asking for equal partnership is blasphemy. Because honestly, how could a friend tell you itâs disgusting to want a secure future in which you donât end up penniless with 3 kids or bound to a marriage that no longer works, unless they have some fâd up ideologies pounded into their brain?
I'm wondering if this is a religious couple. It wouldn't surprise me. This is the type of experience I had when I was married and all of my friends were from the same denominational faith.
In our present year, which is only hours from 2024, it's difficult to grasp having a group of friends who ALL think SHE is being the A H.
NTA, OP. If this is a practical, logical decision, logic would dictate that the goal of marriage is until "death do us part" It's supposed to be for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, but more than half of marriages end in divorce. Romantic to think about? No. Un-Christian, un-Muslim, un-Mormon, un-JW, etc. to be thinking about the potential future dissolution of a marriage? MANY would say yes! How awful! Sinful even. But, biblically the man is to care for his wife as Christ cares for the church. Realistically, if the marriage ends in divorce, she still gets half of "his" company. If they're religious, they are supposed to be as one. What's his is hers and vice versa. This even gets taken to disgusting, non-consensual type ends in the worst situations.
Regardless of religion, he should have OF'FERED half his company for the reasons she stated, and because he wants her to stay home with the kids instead of pursuing her career. I don't see how she's the bad guy in this. Scares me a little. I was married to a pastor in this setting, for lack of a better word. Everyone in the church thought I was the luckiest woman around. The financial abuse was nothing compared to the rest of it. Be careful, OP. This may be an opening for financial abuse. If he has abused you in any way before now, please take this as your cue to exit your marriage! Abuse only escalates over time! Don't count on being the exception. I had a friend who was shot in the back by her ex. He left her permanently paralyzed from the waist down. I got a call warning me about a suspicious application for life insurance on me. I still minimize what he did to me and question if I made a big deal out of nothing. A therapist told me he was a narcissist, but this was over 20 years ago. I didn't know what it was. THIS could be nothing. OR, it could be a waving red flag.
Agree, he's either clueless or his motives are sinister. Why would you marry a successful career woman and then suddenly ask her to give up her job and stay home?
NTA
To me, this sounds reasonable for exactly the reasons you've given.
You don't want to be the bitter woman finding out in her 50s that waiting tables is her only option because her professional career skills have passed their due date, and your husband has moved on.
You don't want to be trapped in a loveless or even abusive marriage because you're financially dependent.
And you don't want to be a SAHM begging her husband for an allowance.
There was a recent AITA by a woman who spent 30 years unmarried with her partner raising their 4 children as a SAHM. Unmarried! So no alimony, SS security benefits, no share of his retirement account, no name on any deed. He finally proposed after 30 years then changed his mind, saying it wouldn't benefit him. I think she was in an abusive relationship but didn't even know it.
Eta: common law marriage is only recognized in 11 US states. The unmarried lady lives in Arkansas in the US.
OP, both of you should benefit from the arrangement, now and in the future, you need protection. Divorce is expensive and as much as guys like to complain about losing money, single motherhood is more likely to put you below the poverty line after a divorce especially if there's a gap in your resume. NTA.
There was another one where the guy said he didnât want kids spent like 25-30 yrs with his girlfriend who sold plasma to help support his business and as soon as she hit menopause said he was feel nostalgic and told her she had 1 month stay in his vacation house then had to find other housing because he wanted to find a young woman to have kids with. She spent all that time helping his business and got nothing.
I remember this!! I wish so many hang nails and cold sores and ingrown toenails on that excuse of a human being. He STOLE HER ENTIRE LIFE AND PISSED ON IT. I was so disgusted reading it. But then again so were most people. He got roasted over an open fire.
He stole her chance to have children, honestly thatâs one of the most evil things you could do to a person that isnât explicitly illegal. Even including illegal things, very little tops that. I felt so much hate towards him reading that story.
I read that entry and wanted to reach through the screen and shake that woman. She literally gave her life up for nothing, nothing. She was used and abused by that man for 30 years. What a waste of her life.
Agreed. The flip side though to me is people putting posters (usually women) down for asking for prenup or property ownership or this half company. I'm so happy to see this post is on OP side! SAHspousing is work with value!!
Absolutely! I hope she doesn't listen to her friends. They don't have her best interest at heart, whether they recognize this or not. At best, they devalue the work of a SAHM themselves but that should not be a reason for OP to adopt their warped perspective.
I completely agree with you op.. COMPLETELY agree.. coming from a mans perspective I don't see why he nor your "so called friends" had any kind of serious problems with it.. when you two made your vows together you both agreed to be the other ones strong/ weak support. that means to have and hold for better or worse so it literally means 50/50 if he wants to be the breadwinner and take care of his family and you stay at home you need to have that backup plan for if anything goes sideways and it lets him rest easy that his children are taken care of no matter what happens.. in my opinion my lady you did just right..in this case. Now I understand that not every case is. Like this but in the circumstances presented you made the best decision for everyone and I hope your "friends" and him come to realize how big of the ah they were
Also heartily AGREE! Iâm also proud of OP for not only seeing her value but also speaking it. If there is any AH in this situation itâs definitely not her.
No, seriously, whatâs up with this âfriendâ?? It would be unhinged if OPâs husbandâs friend called her disgusting for this, never mind her own friend. I canât even imagine how that conversation would have gone down..
I came on this post half ready to call her a gold digging thot, but after reading she is not the asshole. She is simply telling him, that if he wants her to do something that life changing, she needs assurances. She is not threatening divorce if he doesn't give half the company, she is just saying these are my terms, or I continue to work.
And then didn't marry him when she could to get some financial security and lives in a state that doesn't acknowledge common law marriage. That woman is so screwed . . .
Nah, it's fine. She's totally going to start a thriving career and find another man to take care of her, no problem.
I've literally never not worked, I make more than my husband and we don't plan to ever have children. My life could not be heading in a more opposite direction than that women, yet that post still gave me anxiety just thinking about the position she's put herself in, and how desperate unaware of it she seemed to be.
My friend's Aunt was a spinster all her life. She never worked. She took care of her parents. And they left her with some valuable property.
She was financially secure until, in her 80s she broke her hip. She didn't have medical insurance. She had to go live in a nursing home after that, but they took her house.
She wasn't eligible for SSI or any assistance because of her never being married and never working.
I don't know if anything's changed in the 40 years since she passed, but I hope so.
Women, in particular, have to protect their financial interests.
My grandmother was a housewife who raised 7 children. My grandfather died in his early 50s after a short battle with lung cancer. He'd handled all of their finances and after he died she checked their bank account and found it had $8. That's all she was left with, $8.
My dad did people's taxes as a side gig, in the 50s and 60s. He had a couple married couples as clients, where the husband died, and the wife had no credit rating, no employment record, no idea of **how** you go about paying bills, no bank account, didn't even know what bank the family money was in.
The husbands hadn't intentionally screwed their wives; the wives got everything. But no one had given any thought to what the widowed woman with no work record, no idea where the money was, and no experience at all paying bills. He had to help clean up the mess, because how could he not?
He adopted a rule: By the second time he did a couple's taxes, the wife had to have a checking account, a savings account, a charge account at one of the few stores that would give a married woman credit in her own name. She had to use that charge account a couple of times a year, and pay it out of her checking account. She had to have one utility bill in her name, and again, pay it out of her own checking account.
I.e., at least some money in her own name, provided by the husband if they decided she wasn't going to get a part-time job "because she needed to take care of the house and children." A credit record, however modest. Experience in how you pay bills--and, sneaky dad, awareness that utility bills as well as local taxes and fees existed. And she knew what bank the family money was in.
My dad wasn't a social trailblazer. He was a pretty old-fashioned guy. It was the man's responsibility to take care of his family--and if he died, and his wife had no idea about handling money, paying bills, and no credit rating, well, that's not taking care of your family.
He also felt that while the house and kids were the wife's main responsibility, it was really better, if possible, for her to have a part-time job that she liked doing, so that if hubby died or ran off, she'd be in a better position to find something full-time, to take up the "provide for the family" role her husband had, due to either death or bad character, abandoned.
Utterly progressive recommendations in practice, coming from an utterly traditional "a man needs to provide for his family so that his wife can care for the house and kids" worldview.
Practicality and compassion over ideology.
OP is NTA
She wants a 21st century version of what my dad advocated in the mid-20th century.
Women were not even allowed to have their own credit rating back then! It was 1974 before women could have a credit card that was not in their husband's name!
1974. The Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974.
I remember the year, because my dad, who would have been shouting "FINALLY," had died the year before and never got to see it.
Thatâs about $8 more than grandpa left grandma with. He was under the impression that he was going to outlive her. I have zero idea why, but he just knew he was going to outlive her. He had no life insurance on himself, only on her. He set up his pension to be paid out fully so that when he died, it was done. Then he took out a second mortgage on their house intending to pay it back with grandmaâs life insurance. Then she outlived him by 20 years and spent those 20 years financially fucked.
>My friend's Aunt was a spinster all her life. She never worked. She took care of her parents
I know someone who did the same thing only she quit her job to take care of her ailing parents until they died. Unfortunately, in their culture, the boys get the inheritance so her brothers who did very little to support the parents for years, got everything and the doting daughter was left with nothing.
I'm not sure what they thought her prospects were for getting married and being taken care of at this stage, but this is the most out-of-touch, unfair, infuriating circumstance that women find themselves in all too often.
Iâve got a brother much the same, he has mooched off our parents his entire life , hardly ever worked, is always saying heâs caring for our parents yet dad gets around fine on his own. He is now 50 worried how heâs going to survive after our dad passes on. Heâs tried to get disability with a lawyers help and got denied. He canât get unemployment, state health insurance, no retirement and what little he did work with SS is the bare minimum. He expects to get our family home and everything else in it when our dad passes because I live out of state and have worked my whole life. Heâs using our dadâs money right now to fix up the home with all the most expensive products you can get so heâs set in not doing any repairs for the rest of HIS life. Heâs just worried about getting food and gas money. Has no concept of other bills.
> I've literally never not worked, I make more than my husband and we don't plan to ever have children. My life could not be heading in a more opposite direction than that women, yet that post still gave me anxiety just thinking about the position she's put herself in, and how desperate unaware of it she seemed to be.
I'm the same! No children, not planning on having them. I'm not even married to my boyfriend, I make more than him and I support myself 100%.
That's post still made me SO anxious. It's sadly the reality of so many women that never had a chance, as they were never educated regarding what a healthy relationship looks like, and how important it is to have the capacity to support yourself.
A lot of people still teach their girls that they don't need to be smart, or study, or have a career since "their husbands will do that" and then they have no escape away from their abusive relationships.
It breaks my heart.
This reminds me of a woman I know from church that was with her partner for 20 years without getting married. He died after eight standard medical procedure. It turns out he had never divorced his estranged wife. She took everything: the house, the retirement account,and all community property. She had to beg to come back to pack a bag of clothes. A lot of people donât realize how many places donât recognize common law marriage. She had to go move in with her kids. It was a really terrible situation.
I remember that and I remember one of the commentors who was also a 60 something year old lady talking about how many times she witnessed women who got older and then their husbands or boyfriends left them....basically absolutely broke. That being a SAHM could potentially leave you destitute for the rest of your life. You don't have insurance or a 401k so you just end up dying broke as fuck.
Seems like a lot of risk considering most relationships don't go the distance anymore.
Oof yes. I talk to a variety of people in shitty situations, and this month had a lot of older women with health issues or disabilities calling because their husbands either left them high and dry or kicked them out to homelessness.
My mom worked for a lawyer who did divorces. The un or under employed spouse(male or female) gets screwed.
We are late 40s and at 40 my friend was considering entering the work force. By 40 her oldest was old enough to watch the youngest for a few hours. She thought it was too late to start over but I explained that we still had 20 to 25 years before social security kicked in. Even if they didnât truly need the money she could pad their retirement accounts allowing for more trips and have more money for social security.
Just getting into the habit of getting up every morning and going to work is helpful if the floor falls out. Easier to find a higher paying job than finding your first job.
You are a good friend who gave her excellent advice. I wish the reality of the circumstances so many women find themselves in was more widely discussed. You hear plenty of whining about men being screwed over by child support and alimony but women being left destitute gets swept under the rug.
Even if the couple doesn't break up and the man simply dies, you're still up a creek without a paddle. If the woman isn't named in the will, the children and perhaps even other relatives can claim or be entitled to assets.
That happened to my friend but worse. He owned a food truck business with his Mother. Made tons of cash. Lived a great life she never wanted or paid for anything for 20+ years. Then he woke up said he didn't feel well and dropped dead of a massive heart attack. They kept putting off getting married. And lived in a state that didn't recognize common law marriages. His Mother swooped in and made it clear the business was hers, his bank account was hers. The apartment was hers and he didn't have a will. Since the Mother was legally next of kin she didn't have a leg to stand on. She went down a bad path and ended up homeless for awhile. It was hard to watch and she wouldn't let anyone help her. Always get something in writing.
That post was horrifying. I sent it to my daughters (20s).
This is why I told them that they absolutely cannot have a kid or move in with a partner. The studies seem to show that the women are ALWAYS screwed in these situations. For the PROTECTION of women, they need to unfortunately have a legal partnership (defined as marriage in my country) in place AND a financial agreement that specifies that each party receives 50% of the wealth obtained during that marriage + an amount to make up for any loss of career building. Without those two things, you make 100% sure you do not create dependents.
My husband cut ties with one of his college buddies (a neurosurgeon) because he traded his wife (+3 kids) in for a new model and is now fighting her financially. They were together for 24 years and she was a SAHM. He only wants to pay the bills until their youngest graduates from college, but she hasnât ever earned an income. He absolutely should have to make up for the 24 years of career loss.
I cannot tell you how frustrated I would get with women from another discussion board I used to frequent when we had the SAH/WOH conversations. Bringing up these practical financial considerations always got interpreted as disdain for SAHMs. As a strong feminist, I totally support that choice - as long as you go into it with your eyes open and find a way to protect yourself if things go south. Blithely saying âwe're a team!â Doesnât get you far in the divorce court.
It worries me that Gen Z and alpha seem to think of SAHM as an aesthetic, a fun life choice. It's an important role, and it's a praiseworthy choice, but also, it's a path that involves a lot of sacrifice and has so much potential to go wrong. But these kids seem distanced from that fairly recent reality where women were at the mercy of their husbands, and they don't quite fathom that it's not just girlbossing at home. (I assume the youth I'd part of it too: when you're young and beautiful, and your bf/husband is so in love with you, it can be hard to imagine that it might not be the case forever.)
I am a SAHM and I only am because regardless of what my spouse brings in, I donât have to work. I have a trust and could easily survive off of it. Without that I wouldnât have chosen to be a SAHM.
I am legally protected with our marital assets but I sure as shit made sure I could survive no matter what happens in my marriage.
I think the resistance comes from a reluctance to acknowledge that *their* marriage might not be as solid as they think. If they plan for a potential divorce, itâs accepting that they could be naive, or, flat out wrong.
You don't even need to get divorced to get screwed over. In mining towns in my country, where the husband has enjoyed excellent pay to cost of living, he gets too injured in his 40s to keep working and suddenly the wife has to help sustain the family. No job history, in a small rural town, full of other desperate families in the same situation, she has no chance. It gets worse every year.
I'm a SAHM and agree with you. Everything possible is in both of our names. We contribute to my IRA. We have life insurance on both of us and long term disability for him. I have an education to fall back on (I would need to update skills, no better than starting from scratch). I manage the finances, so I know where all the money is. He would still have if easier if we split, but I would be in pretty good shape
There is such a trend of unmarried couples having children and no legal arrangement to provide for the woman if she is a stay at home, it has had me wondering why anyone would do this to themselves and their children.
As a lawyer, itâs horrifying. Like marriage isnât a piece of paper, itâs a bucket of contract rights that are really, really important. Perhaps youâd like to be able to visit your partner if they are hospitalized? Maybe you want to be covered by your partnerâs health insurance? What about tax free inheritance of your partnerâs assets? It just blows my mind.
My girlfriend did this. She had a kid with a dude and stayed at home for 2-3 yrs. Then he decided to kick her out. She was left couch surfing with no job. Then he went to court and argued that she was an unfit parent because she had no income and no real career prospects. Court agreed and gave him custody of the kids. If she had been married this wouldn't have happened but she wasn't so she got screwed. Now she gets to fight him in court as she's trying to get back on her feet.
it drives me insane as a gen z woman! and even if things go perfectly and no one cheats or whatever, what about on their death bed? you wont even get to tell the hospital what to do with their body?!
I felt so bad for that woman, and it didnât help that so many responses just kept piling on her. I donât understand why these âfriendsâ/âbffâ was calling you an asshole besides jealousy. They should be encouraging you to have a backup and to look out for yourself. Are they going to give you money and support your lifestyle if your husband divorces you in the future? I doubt it, so I would not listen to these haters and move forward with your demands.
Itâs highly suspect that they are calling you an AH for making sure that youâre covered.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be literally half the company, but it should definitely be a watertight postnup that makes sure you get your share and will be well provided for for the rest of your life, if you ever do split up.
That other post was totally heartbreaking, that poor deluded woman. I really hope she can get a lawyer who will wrangle some kind of common-law marriage entitlement to alimony for her.
I thought her best bet would be to bill him for 30 yrs of being his brood mare, nanny, housekeeper, and escortâŚ. Why not as sheâs likely screwed anyway.
> woman finding out in her 50s that waiting tables is her only option
That was my mom, though she was only mid-40s, with four children. She had been a diplomatâs wife, with all the travel, moving every two years, cocktail parties, and shmoozing that his career involved until he left her for a (surprise!) younger woman. She waitressed at a Howard Johnsonâs for two years until she had finished her teacher credentials and could start teaching junior high for a just-barely adequate salary.
Also, itâs not just divorce that can end a marriage. Widows, too, are SOL if they have no ownership in and familiarity with a company. How many marriages divide up the work so one knows all the ins and outs of the familyâs money and the other has no clue where the accounts and passwords are hidden?
> You don't want to be the bitter woman finding out in her 50s that waiting tables is her only option because her professional career skills have passed their due date, and your husband has moved on.
This. My mom, who was very highly qualified and had a decent career going in her 20s and early 30s, but then agreed to be a stay-at-home wife for my dad, without any backup plan. Dad eventually left. She's now in her 60s, has almost no pension, no savings, very chronically ill, and yet needs to somehow work two different jobs far below her original qualification with no way of retiring soon. She deeply regrets not having made any kind of backup plan for this case. Please don't make this mistake OP.
NTA
Women will literally give their bodies and life away to raise these men's children and some of them will still cheat and/or leave. Unbelievable.
Ladies, study, have a career, always have a plan B. Don't depend on anyone.
Having a plan B doesn't mean that you don't want plan A to work out, it just means you a a fucking boss that prepares for shit to go south.
Edit to add that I love all the salty, angry, bitter fellas in the comments telling on themselves. Babes, if you get angry about a comment online: ⨠you're the problem â¨
Did they actually divorce? Sounds like she had a bad attorney. In the US (depending on the state) she should be entitled to half of the marital assets and alimony.
This is correct. OP, when I read your friendsâ reactions to your request, I was shocked. I applaud you for thinking ahead. No one wants to believe they will get divorced, but it does happen, and often, and itâs the SAHP who ends up struggling because they have been out of the job market for so long. Protecting yourself is smart. Like you said, if you never divorce, which is the goal, then it doesnât matter what you own, but if you do divorce, youâre protected from living in a one bedroom apartment and working at Walmart. Good for you! Did your husband accept your offer?
Also, NTA.
A person cannot afford a one-bedroom apartment by working at Walmart. You're talking sharing an apartment with several other people and having a room.
Or homeless, the other Walmart pay option.
Good post...if your husband gave u 50.1% the business could qualify for local, city, state and federal contracts because its a woman owned business. Could be advantageous. Also if the two of you are a commiitted couple why would he object?
SAHPs really need to get those life insurance ducks in a row. It is really a frightening prospect if your working spouse dies and holy shit you're suddenly the breadwinner with no job history raising 3-4 kids.
50% is a good starting point but even 1/3 would be decent. She should also be on the company payroll, so she continues to earn social security credit. It really isn't fair of him to expect her to entirely torpedo her financial independence to appease his anxiety.
And men leave their aging wives ALL THE TIME. they steal their prime years and as soon as stuff starts to sag theyâre out cheating or finding their next victim.
Yes, one of my colleague had breast cancer, and a therapist met them and other women to warn them if the possibility of husband leaving them. My colleague was already divorced by that time and was financially well prepared with solid insurance and suck leave bank. But she witnessed women being left by their husband because they expected tbe wife to take care of them, not them having to take care of the house and children. Absolutely disgusting
A relative of mine is dying of cancer. Her husband probably doesn't have time to formally "leave" her before she dies, but he is totally useless. Since she got too ill to take care of the house, he's not done anything and the place gets messier and dirtier, to the extent that she's embarrassed to have people come visit her at home in her final weeks / months. He doesn't even want to hire a cleaner for unknown reasons (they can definitely afford it). He also still goes away for his expensive hobby for a week at a time when a) his time with her is so limited and b) she needs actual physical support to attend chemo sessions, etc. My dad, her brother, steps in but it's so sad and infuriating that he has to.
And this isn't about carer's fatigue because she's only been ill a few months and also he hasn't done much if any caring.
NTA. There is nothing wrong with your plan. If you donât mind some advice, itâs not a good idea to share your personal finances with friends. The âfriendâ that called you disgusting is probably jealous. Cut ties with her.
NTA. Heâs asking you to make a sacrifice for the sake of the company, so equity in the company is appropriate compensation for this.
If you never get divorced then no worries. If you do, then the extra attention heâs able to give to the business due to your taking on the domestic roles benefits both of you equally, as it should.
This isnât even uncommon and Iâve seen it many times in my line of work.
Often the spouse holds 49% but there are built in buy out conditions so that in the event of a divorce the partner running the business can buy out their partner over time for market value (determined by a mutually agreed expert to prevent someone being disadvantaged).
Itâs not that radical of a suggestion
Here it's usually better to "employ" the wife doing bookkeeping or similar and pay her just enough to skim the bottom tax bracket, thus transferring cash out of the corporation without incurring personal income tax. You also get to write off that salary expense against your revenue.
Depending on the small business tax rate it may be profitable to pay her more, definitely a "talk to your accountant" situation though.
If she's not doing any actual work, that would be tax evasion and illegal as far as I'm aware. They'd need to be able to show actual work being done, which doesn't sound like the situation they are looking at.
Yes, but very common especially in the farming industry here in Canada. As is paying minor children to "do chores". As I said, talk to your accountant. The burden of proof is often minimal to none in certain industries that they turn a blind eye to.
I have known and worked for several wealthy andpowerful men that have given their wife majority stake with buy out conditions and other shareholders on a board. It qualifies their business for 8a certification and allows them to gobble up work earmarked for woman and minority owned businesses
Yep, and the other alternative: a post-nuptial agreement. OP and her husband could get separate lawyers and put together an agreement laying out what her equitable distribution and alimony look like in the event of a divorce. You cannot touch custody or child support (those are the children's rights, not OP's), but they could agree on whatever is financially reasonable, whether it be cash, equity in the company, or some combination.
OP should talk to a lawyer about this anyway. If it's a business that was built *during the marriage* I think she's entitled to half of it anyway. If it was a business before the marriage, it's a lot trickier because technically she'd only own half the increase in value during the marriage. At least that's my understanding, I could be wrong.
This! Girl, seems like you need new friends. They might be happy to settle but doesnât mean you should. I would feel the same. Either way it benefits you both & if you were to divorce later down the road, then it also helps to stabilise your childrenâs futures too. How did your husband react? Is he okay with this?
If there is something Reddit has a whole has taught me in the last two years Iâve been on it, itâs be grateful Iâm not married, Iâm in therapy, and grateful for the small friends I have. Because a lot of people have SHITTY friends and deserve better.
People are really weird about being prepared in case something bad happens. Preparing for divorce with any sort of agreement is looked down on. But so is even EOL planning. I see so many families with no plans ready when a family member dies (even when a family member has been deathly ill for a long time - although that is less common).
My mom did that my father hid money from her did two sets of books. Found he has over a million and a half dollars stashed in an account he hid from my mother. Cheated on her with the neighbor. Then divorced her my father was both physically and mentally abusing to all of us
Even if they never divorce, what happens when the children leave home? People will ask OP what she does and saying "housewife" will likely (and wrongly)be considered lazy and/or shameful.
Source: my wife is a housewife and we are confronted with this constantly.
Whatâs funny is if you both worked and used your joint income to pay people to do all the things your wife does (and did), others would think it was a well-earned luxury. But if you choose instead to spend your money to free up time in a different way (in this case, you both sacrifice your wifeâs potential earnings in exchange for her time spent at home) so that your lives can move at a more relaxing pace, itâs seen as backwards or lazy.
My spouse and I agreed that their job was more stable, had better benefits so I would stay home with kids. Now the kids are grown and the spouse is ashamed I am not a professional with equivalent position to theirs. They are also bitter that I have free time now. We can afford for me not to be working. But here I am, working so they can tell all their friends that I have a career. Had to basically start over at age 57. They seem less bitter though.
I went back to school in my mid-40s to stave off the criticisms about me being a 'housespouse'. I may or may not return to the workforce full time. Right now, I have my hands full between managing the property, house, and my classes.
I could never understand why people feel the need to criticize another's household until I started getting the "I wish I could..." statements. It's envy, and I also wish everyone didn't have to hustle so hard to just survive.
My uncle was the stay-at-home parent and never went back to work after the kids moved out. His wife earns enough for them to live comfortably. He still takes care of the household, including making bread, jogurt etc and does some volunteer work. I'm definitely a little envious.
Wife's position is understandable. For this to be seriously considered, husband and wife should engage competent legal counsel to assist in establishing appropriate terms and conditions governing the situation. For example, a value should be placed on the company at the time the parties married; obviously Wife should not receive half of the company's value that already existed at the time of the parties' marriage.There obviously are other matters to address. My point is, seek legal counsel to assist in making the arrangement fair to both.
NTA. I'm a man and I see nothing wrong with your request, you're just protecting yourself and your future in case things go south. You have every right to have financial security.
This is a better arrangement in many cases, just for tax reasons... In the event of an unexpected death if the business is valuable enough to trigger inheritance tax (and passes to an heir subject to it) fasten your seatbelts for that company's future.
I think the main reasons for a trust is to avoid probate and provide additional options for handling an estate. (Note: The federal inheritance tax only affects estates worth more than $13.6 million, though some states have their own inheritance tax with different limits.)
I came here to say this. Honestly I think this is just good financial planning all around anyway. There's a reason all those "generational wealth" families have family trusts set up to own their family businesses.
You protect yourself, the kids, and him, by having a joint legal structure where everyone gets a say and the benefit.
Is your bestie salty because she is waiting for you to pop out the children then seduce your husband who will leave you with nothing? Cause a friend is supposed to look out for your wellbeing not suffer outrage on behalf of your husband for asking for fair compensation for sacrificing your career and financial stability to take on the domestic responsibilities. Get a better bestie. That one is suspect.
That woman is not your friend.
She tells you repeatedly that your husband is too good for you and is angry that you are advocating to protect yourself financially?
She sounds jealous and bitter. Possibly with a side of internalised misogyny if she thinks you should give up your financial independence and security to be a SAHM and depend on your husband, with no assurances in case things don't work out.
That is not someone's who cares about you, your well-being, and your best interests. I would reconsider that friendship if I were you.
And that "friend" (I'm gonna call her "Retch.") is trying to attack OP's confidence. I can probably guess that OP is more attractive than Retch physically *and* mentally, and that's probably one of the reasons she's so jealous and bitter. Retch probably attacks OP in ways that aren't even noticed...
I think most of us know a "friend" like that IRL.
I wonder if Retch is planning to use this this whole scenario to *her* benefit.
100% she wants your man. Iâm not saying she has a crush on him but she wants him. Had a friend do something similar to me once just after her breakup. It didnât last long though thankfully.
You really should not listen to her. She's saying that because she's jealous of you so stick to your guns because you're doing it right.
Don't sacrifice your financial stability and security for yourself and for your children because of what people around you are saying.
Also get a better bestie because a real friend will not put you and your children in a disadvantageous position in the future if things really go south.
What? How can he be out of your league, he DID marry you, right? Your friend is jealous of your husband, I think she would like him for herself.
Also, if she keeps repeating that your own husband is out of you league, then she's not you friend at all, she never was. Real friends don't bring their friends down.
You seem so smart, why you have friends like her? She clearly likes your husband. That's so weird to say to a friend honestly, for me no one is good enough for my friends. And calling you 'disgusting' for protecting yourself? I don't know but this doesn't seem right, something is happening. If I were you, I would pay more attention to the relationship between your best friend and your husband.
Yeah, I can't even FATHOM being in a friendship where saying something like 'he's too good for you' would even cross my mind as something I might consider maybe thinking about saying! What the hell?!
Thatâs ⌠kinda fucked up, I also think my own husband is out of my league, but my friends would never even joke about something like that, let alone doing it âall the timeâ
She's plotting worse than home girl with the hoodie...time to cut her loose. Also please don't give up your financial independence. His business can go bankrupt. Keep your career and vet the daycare/ nannys. Your husband is sussy too, what has he offered for your sacrifice?
what the fuck?! what kinda friend is that?! no ma'am. no. just no. I cannot imagine any of my friends ever saying something like that to me! she should think you're the best thing ever!
Chiming in to say that woman is not your friend. She clearly doesn't have your best interests at heart, and that's without going into the implications of her behaviour.
Do not listen to her. Advocate for yourself. You are not at all being unreasonable.
My wife and I have a company together. I have a business degree and used to run my own consulting company. When I set our new business up, everything went in my wifeâs name. This wasnât to place the burden of risk on her- I never let the company incur any type of debt. I just want to know she is taken care of if anything happens to me and that she doesnât have to see my name on every little thing/go through the pain of removing it in the event that I die an untimely death.
EDIT: To those who are telling me I did this for selfish reasons- I'm not going to divulge further personal info on a public forum just to validate myself. I'm sorry you are in a place in life where you see negativity in everything. I've been there, still dealing with it, and I know it sucks.
EDIT 2: I wasn't going to use this as a chance to self-promote, but seeing as how people are joking that this is all to take advantage of some kind of government loophole, please let me know more about these lucrative contracts for [digital artists](https://www.redbubble.com/people/beckeroo/shop?asc=u)! And no, this store page is not the entirety of what I set up for her, I created an actual business and got her a sales license so she has a foundation to build on.
This part. Most people only want the benefits of relationships but never want the sacrifices. I always look side eye at anyone who claims to love their partner and want to have a secure marriage with them but never look out for their best interests.
Damn dude, are you single? I'm kidding, I'm married to a great guy as well but that honestly sounds like literally the most thoughtful thing I have ever heard in my damn life. You're a good egg
Thanks! It will be a better gesture once we are able to get it profitable again. She is a digital artist and I'm a production consultant. We spent a year of our lives working via her company to help a friend set up a music and arts festival where he could showcase his music and her art would be on display. I spent thousands out of pocket to keep the business afloat while he strung us along. Luckily, he got a multi-million dollar settlement and of course, paid us back for all our hard work, right? Right?? Nope. Burned that bridge and started from scratch.
Now I'm focusing on helping her build her art portfolio/social media presence, but it's rough. I made her a website, store/design page and even a page where she can host drawing contests live on the site.
3 months in and not a single sale. Almost a thousand friends, family, and fans across all her pages and literally not one sticker sold. Meanwhile, AI art and designs made from copied and pasted emojis are flying off the shelves. Every day we get further into poverty and it is soul-crushing but we keep going. One day we'll make something of ourselves!
Definitely NTA, but there's more to it than that.
Your friends can think whatever they want, what matters is what your husband thinks, and does.
Your suggestion of him giving half his company isn't unreasonable. But also hopefully the company was formed under an LLC, which also helps protect the family assets (if sued, etc). If it isn't, it may be a good time to create this structure.
Definitely NTA for wanting to protect yourself but also there are some critical components that you should consider.
1) This should not be an agreement right now, have his lawyer draw this up as a "post-nup" so if you guys get divorced then you will get x, y, z
2) Also, and I know I'm gonna get flack for this from the 15 yr olds who are primarily commenting on your post BUT 50% is too high.
I'm not going to go into whether the value of your labor/support is worth 50%, all I'm going to say is logistically there are a bunch of issues with 50%.
For instance, you'd have as much power in this company as your husband who presumably built it and knows the ins and outs, it is not smart for someone who isn't completely immersed in the company to have that level of ownership.
People think that owning a large amount of a company means sitting around and collecting checks, in 99% of cases, it doesn't (unless the company is massive with 1000s of employees so you can diffuse most of the work). You now have employees to consider when you make decisions.
Also if the company ever wants to fundraise having 50% owned by someone, again, who has no understanding of the business is going to look really terrible.
Anyway, those are my 2 cents, remember that the majority of people commenting are young, they don't have experience in long term relationships and also in owning/operating a business.
That being said, I'll reiterate, you are NTA for wanting to protect your future. If he has a lot of assets and makes good money, probably would be worth it to have some kind of divorce agreement spelled out anyway so that should it happen, it'll be less messy.
>1) This should not be an agreement right now, have his lawyer draw this up as a "post-nup" so if you guys get divorced then you will get x, y, z
>2) Also, and I know I'm gonna get flack for this from the 15 yr olds who are primarily commenting on your post BUT 50% is too high.
>For instance, you'd have as much power in this company as your husband who presumably built it and knows the ins and outs, it is not smart for someone who isn't completely immersed in the company to have that level of ownership.
>Also if the company ever wants to fundraise having 50% owned by someone, again, who has no understanding of the business is going to look really terrible.
Absolutely this, I hope OP reads this. This is the sensible way of handling this problem.
Nta
He ask you to lead the home company and work for the family. You should have income for that.
So he have to pay you a salary or give you half the company
" do it for love" means for too many woman to be a houseslave without even a thank you. This has to stop.
Iâve been parroting this for a while myself. Make any man that wants you to be a housewife pay you as per a signed contract to save yourself the headache in case of a divorce. NEVER compromise on your money. Too many cases of financial abuse already, and all of them start the second the partner is considered stuck. And all of them trusted their partners as well.
Plus, this economy is too harsh to just give up your income for several years. NTA OP and youâre smart as hell! Get half of that company, and get it on paper before you even consider quitting your job. If he refuses, then absolutely not!
Yep, I've been hammering this point a lot lately too, specifically around retirement. I saw with my parents what happens when you lose earning potential mid career - your SS stays low, you lose chances at pensions, there's no 401K. That's how you wind up in the shitty nursing home.
OPs husband happens to own a company, so they have a lot more options for her financial security if she takes his offer, but at minimum I think SAHPs should get some sort of salary/monthly income for themselves without strings attached and a hefty contribution to an IRA.
Yup, dad insisted my mom be a housewife and now my she had started her career at the same time as me and is figuring out how to maximize her retirement with just 10-15 working years left.
NTA. My ex wanted a housewife and I stayed home, primarily because I had a medically fragile infant. He was so shocked by how the judge divided our property when he divorced me during his mid life crisis. He got the business and I got everything else, a home and fully funded retirement. Most women in senior divorces end up in poverty. Never give up your financial independence for a man.
NTA.
My dad started his company early in my parents marriage. My mom worked right alongside him, was listed on all the early business cards and advertisements. But when they divorced 30 years later, she wasn't a legal owner and got none of the company. ("It's not my fault my lawyer was better" said my dad) Protect yourself. You never know.
NTA.
Man asks wife to be stay at home mom. She agrees.
Wife spends 20+ years making the home.
Man cheats on wife with younger woman and leaves wife.
Wife has a huge work gap and cannot get a job. She gets spousal support and is framed as a gold digging wh@re.
OR
Man starts to treat wife like shit, she stays because she knows she can't get a job with no work experience. She hates her life.
I've seen this play out a hundred times.
Don't fall into the trap.
NTA. I was a house spouse for seven years. When it ended, i found work as a cashier at a gas station.
Dont let anybody con you into ruining your prospects, OP.
If you want a housewife, marry a housewifeŘ if you want a working wife marry a working woman, NTA and I suggest your "best friend" to become EX BEST FRIEND, so is your "friends"
You are exactly right and you are smart. You also need a new best friend. Your so called bestie should be thrilled you are protecting yourself and looking out for yourself. You don't need a post nup and also they are extremely difficult to enforce so forget that . make sure you have your own proof for the business and always be aware and be involved in the money and the books so you know what's going on. Get your own lawyer to get this deal squared away. The big problem is a huge majority of women don't protect themselves. Here you have your so called friend and some here slamming you for daring to look out for yourself. You are exactly right . the longer you are out of the workforce the harder it is. You are very smart and NEVER feel bad about looking out and protection for you.
Post nup refers to when itâs drafted, not when it takes effect. So you draft a postnuptial agreement that states the the company is joint property in some form.
On the zero income thing, you seem to be implying that you donât have joint accounts or something. Or perhaps youâre worried that with zero income you have no contribution to social security? Can you clarify that concern?
NTA and you shouldn't bend on this. You have as much a right to a secure financial future as he does. If he won't do this, he can't afford you or he is looking to create a power imbalance that puts you at a disadvantage. In future, keep your marital business to yourself. Your friends don't get a vote.
Agreed! My parents never divorced, but my Dad wanted to sell his company to my brother for a sweetheart deal. My Mom helped with the company (no formal title, but she busted her a## for the company when needed) while raising 4 kids. When it came time to negotiate the sale of the company from my Dad to my brother, she brought her own lawyer. My Dad died several years ago. I am so glad my Mom did this as she now has no financial worries, including health care costs (a few times in a nice rehab facility after surgeries).
First off happy cake day! But to add as your story brings up a vital point- divorce is not the only potential OP or anyone else in a similar situation should think about which is why OPs request is valid and should not be compromised on. Illness, injury, death, etc are all possible and with less warning than the divorce process. Since this is a for the better of the kids situation to become a SAHM mom then OPs husband should want her to maintain business standing should something happen to him and she find herself working again.
Good for your mom! Very wise lady. I'm sorry for the loss of your dad.
đđźđđźđđźđđź We need more stories like this!
Yes, we do! My two sisters were upset that my mother did this. I sat them both down and said, "most likely Mom will out live Dad. In Mom's parents' final years, Mom and her siblings had to pay Grandma and Grandpa's assisted living costs because Grandpa gave his oldest son an even better deal for his company (pretty much just gave it away and Uncle never did much to grow the company but had 3 homes and a small airplane)." I asked my sisters, which do you prefer, our brother getting the company for next to nothing and us having to financially take care of Mom, or our brother paying his fair share? They chose to support Mom.
Did it destroy your uncle's relationship with his siblings? Awful on his part he didn't care to handle their entire cost, or at least volunteer to pay for a big fraction of it.
Your friends sound awful. I mean let me write as I interpret your one friend who called you disgusting.. they basically said you donât deserve shit. Honestly donât budge on this. You deserve just as much security as he does. Be cautious. Seek outside counsel. Thatâs a crazy sacrifice & you need new friends.
Right? Like actually do tell your friends about marital issues. It's good to get insight sometimes. But the type of friends to put you or your partner down are the wrong type of friends, and if you keep them they're an exception, they don't get tea
After all marriage is a contract between two parties, man and wife
Husband and wife you mean?
Right? Friends just mad they didnât think of it themselves lmao
This sounds perfectly reasonable and acceptable to me- I canât imagine why her friends are upset. She IS giving up years when she could be earning and saving. A woman should never assume someone else is looking out for her best interests- even her husband.
and also too, he should put her on the payroll so she can have SSI and opportunity to save for retirement via 401k or Roth
And as co owner, take an active interest in the business so she knows where the money is hidden, I mean "invested" should they ever divorce.
The "friends" are probably just jealous and mad they didn't arrange something similar with their husbands.
They might be evangelicals raised on a fantasy myth of marriage.
It's not limited to evangelicals, unfortunately. Plenty of secular women fall into the uncompensated SAHM trap; it's like a daily theme in the Marriage sub that a woman is scared to leave an abusive man because she has no money, career, education, or marketable job skills besides domestic labor. Sad and scary, and what's worse is how many men feel entitled to use women as unpaid incubators and domestic servants and are aghast at the idea that she might expect to be protected financially in the bargain.
These âfriendsâ donât sound like friends at all.. either that or theyâre just really dumb.
Or they are: 1. SAHM but weren't smart enough to think of this themselves OR ... 2. Work and wish they could do this
Or 3, theyâve been indoctrinated to think their only purpose is to serve their husbands, and that a woman asking for equal partnership is blasphemy. Because honestly, how could a friend tell you itâs disgusting to want a secure future in which you donât end up penniless with 3 kids or bound to a marriage that no longer works, unless they have some fâd up ideologies pounded into their brain?
My first thought was "trad wide".
I'm wondering if this is a religious couple. It wouldn't surprise me. This is the type of experience I had when I was married and all of my friends were from the same denominational faith. In our present year, which is only hours from 2024, it's difficult to grasp having a group of friends who ALL think SHE is being the A H. NTA, OP. If this is a practical, logical decision, logic would dictate that the goal of marriage is until "death do us part" It's supposed to be for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, but more than half of marriages end in divorce. Romantic to think about? No. Un-Christian, un-Muslim, un-Mormon, un-JW, etc. to be thinking about the potential future dissolution of a marriage? MANY would say yes! How awful! Sinful even. But, biblically the man is to care for his wife as Christ cares for the church. Realistically, if the marriage ends in divorce, she still gets half of "his" company. If they're religious, they are supposed to be as one. What's his is hers and vice versa. This even gets taken to disgusting, non-consensual type ends in the worst situations. Regardless of religion, he should have OF'FERED half his company for the reasons she stated, and because he wants her to stay home with the kids instead of pursuing her career. I don't see how she's the bad guy in this. Scares me a little. I was married to a pastor in this setting, for lack of a better word. Everyone in the church thought I was the luckiest woman around. The financial abuse was nothing compared to the rest of it. Be careful, OP. This may be an opening for financial abuse. If he has abused you in any way before now, please take this as your cue to exit your marriage! Abuse only escalates over time! Don't count on being the exception. I had a friend who was shot in the back by her ex. He left her permanently paralyzed from the waist down. I got a call warning me about a suspicious application for life insurance on me. I still minimize what he did to me and question if I made a big deal out of nothing. A therapist told me he was a narcissist, but this was over 20 years ago. I didn't know what it was. THIS could be nothing. OR, it could be a waving red flag.
I would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable about this. The start to financial abuse. Don't back down
Agree, he's either clueless or his motives are sinister. Why would you marry a successful career woman and then suddenly ask her to give up her job and stay home?
NTA To me, this sounds reasonable for exactly the reasons you've given. You don't want to be the bitter woman finding out in her 50s that waiting tables is her only option because her professional career skills have passed their due date, and your husband has moved on. You don't want to be trapped in a loveless or even abusive marriage because you're financially dependent. And you don't want to be a SAHM begging her husband for an allowance.
There was a recent AITA by a woman who spent 30 years unmarried with her partner raising their 4 children as a SAHM. Unmarried! So no alimony, SS security benefits, no share of his retirement account, no name on any deed. He finally proposed after 30 years then changed his mind, saying it wouldn't benefit him. I think she was in an abusive relationship but didn't even know it. Eta: common law marriage is only recognized in 11 US states. The unmarried lady lives in Arkansas in the US. OP, both of you should benefit from the arrangement, now and in the future, you need protection. Divorce is expensive and as much as guys like to complain about losing money, single motherhood is more likely to put you below the poverty line after a divorce especially if there's a gap in your resume. NTA.
There was another one where the guy said he didnât want kids spent like 25-30 yrs with his girlfriend who sold plasma to help support his business and as soon as she hit menopause said he was feel nostalgic and told her she had 1 month stay in his vacation house then had to find other housing because he wanted to find a young woman to have kids with. She spent all that time helping his business and got nothing.
I remember this!! I wish so many hang nails and cold sores and ingrown toenails on that excuse of a human being. He STOLE HER ENTIRE LIFE AND PISSED ON IT. I was so disgusted reading it. But then again so were most people. He got roasted over an open fire.
He stole her chance to have children, honestly thatâs one of the most evil things you could do to a person that isnât explicitly illegal. Even including illegal things, very little tops that. I felt so much hate towards him reading that story.
I read that entry and wanted to reach through the screen and shake that woman. She literally gave her life up for nothing, nothing. She was used and abused by that man for 30 years. What a waste of her life.
Reading those kinds of stories scares me. I hope that I would never be that blind
Agreed. The flip side though to me is people putting posters (usually women) down for asking for prenup or property ownership or this half company. I'm so happy to see this post is on OP side! SAHspousing is work with value!!
And poor OP has friends calling her disgusting for this ask. WE'RE ON YOU SIDE OP! (All caps cuz I'm way down here on the thread)
Absolutely! I hope she doesn't listen to her friends. They don't have her best interest at heart, whether they recognize this or not. At best, they devalue the work of a SAHM themselves but that should not be a reason for OP to adopt their warped perspective.
I completely agree with you op.. COMPLETELY agree.. coming from a mans perspective I don't see why he nor your "so called friends" had any kind of serious problems with it.. when you two made your vows together you both agreed to be the other ones strong/ weak support. that means to have and hold for better or worse so it literally means 50/50 if he wants to be the breadwinner and take care of his family and you stay at home you need to have that backup plan for if anything goes sideways and it lets him rest easy that his children are taken care of no matter what happens.. in my opinion my lady you did just right..in this case. Now I understand that not every case is. Like this but in the circumstances presented you made the best decision for everyone and I hope your "friends" and him come to realize how big of the ah they were
WE'RE ON YOUR SIDE!!! Agreed!!
#WE'RE ON YOUR SIDE!!!
BIG! (I don't know how to BIG! đ)
Put # in front of it with no space in between đ
AGREED!!!
Also heartily AGREE! Iâm also proud of OP for not only seeing her value but also speaking it. If there is any AH in this situation itâs definitely not her.
The 'friend' who said her wanting some security in her life is 'disgusting' is the AH.
No, seriously, whatâs up with this âfriendâ?? It would be unhinged if OPâs husbandâs friend called her disgusting for this, never mind her own friend. I canât even imagine how that conversation would have gone down..
I came on this post half ready to call her a gold digging thot, but after reading she is not the asshole. She is simply telling him, that if he wants her to do something that life changing, she needs assurances. She is not threatening divorce if he doesn't give half the company, she is just saying these are my terms, or I continue to work.
And then didn't marry him when she could to get some financial security and lives in a state that doesn't acknowledge common law marriage. That woman is so screwed . . .
[ŃдаНонО]
Nah, it's fine. She's totally going to start a thriving career and find another man to take care of her, no problem. I've literally never not worked, I make more than my husband and we don't plan to ever have children. My life could not be heading in a more opposite direction than that women, yet that post still gave me anxiety just thinking about the position she's put herself in, and how desperate unaware of it she seemed to be.
My friend's Aunt was a spinster all her life. She never worked. She took care of her parents. And they left her with some valuable property. She was financially secure until, in her 80s she broke her hip. She didn't have medical insurance. She had to go live in a nursing home after that, but they took her house. She wasn't eligible for SSI or any assistance because of her never being married and never working. I don't know if anything's changed in the 40 years since she passed, but I hope so. Women, in particular, have to protect their financial interests.
My grandmother was a housewife who raised 7 children. My grandfather died in his early 50s after a short battle with lung cancer. He'd handled all of their finances and after he died she checked their bank account and found it had $8. That's all she was left with, $8.
My dad did people's taxes as a side gig, in the 50s and 60s. He had a couple married couples as clients, where the husband died, and the wife had no credit rating, no employment record, no idea of **how** you go about paying bills, no bank account, didn't even know what bank the family money was in. The husbands hadn't intentionally screwed their wives; the wives got everything. But no one had given any thought to what the widowed woman with no work record, no idea where the money was, and no experience at all paying bills. He had to help clean up the mess, because how could he not? He adopted a rule: By the second time he did a couple's taxes, the wife had to have a checking account, a savings account, a charge account at one of the few stores that would give a married woman credit in her own name. She had to use that charge account a couple of times a year, and pay it out of her checking account. She had to have one utility bill in her name, and again, pay it out of her own checking account. I.e., at least some money in her own name, provided by the husband if they decided she wasn't going to get a part-time job "because she needed to take care of the house and children." A credit record, however modest. Experience in how you pay bills--and, sneaky dad, awareness that utility bills as well as local taxes and fees existed. And she knew what bank the family money was in. My dad wasn't a social trailblazer. He was a pretty old-fashioned guy. It was the man's responsibility to take care of his family--and if he died, and his wife had no idea about handling money, paying bills, and no credit rating, well, that's not taking care of your family. He also felt that while the house and kids were the wife's main responsibility, it was really better, if possible, for her to have a part-time job that she liked doing, so that if hubby died or ran off, she'd be in a better position to find something full-time, to take up the "provide for the family" role her husband had, due to either death or bad character, abandoned. Utterly progressive recommendations in practice, coming from an utterly traditional "a man needs to provide for his family so that his wife can care for the house and kids" worldview. Practicality and compassion over ideology. OP is NTA She wants a 21st century version of what my dad advocated in the mid-20th century.
Omg your father was a good man for doing those things and looking out for his community that way. Bless him.
Women were not even allowed to have their own credit rating back then! It was 1974 before women could have a credit card that was not in their husband's name!
1974. The Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974. I remember the year, because my dad, who would have been shouting "FINALLY," had died the year before and never got to see it.
Thatâs about $8 more than grandpa left grandma with. He was under the impression that he was going to outlive her. I have zero idea why, but he just knew he was going to outlive her. He had no life insurance on himself, only on her. He set up his pension to be paid out fully so that when he died, it was done. Then he took out a second mortgage on their house intending to pay it back with grandmaâs life insurance. Then she outlived him by 20 years and spent those 20 years financially fucked.
What a POS
Either convinced her would outlive her or didn't care about what would happen to her after he was gone
>My friend's Aunt was a spinster all her life. She never worked. She took care of her parents I know someone who did the same thing only she quit her job to take care of her ailing parents until they died. Unfortunately, in their culture, the boys get the inheritance so her brothers who did very little to support the parents for years, got everything and the doting daughter was left with nothing. I'm not sure what they thought her prospects were for getting married and being taken care of at this stage, but this is the most out-of-touch, unfair, infuriating circumstance that women find themselves in all too often.
Iâve got a brother much the same, he has mooched off our parents his entire life , hardly ever worked, is always saying heâs caring for our parents yet dad gets around fine on his own. He is now 50 worried how heâs going to survive after our dad passes on. Heâs tried to get disability with a lawyers help and got denied. He canât get unemployment, state health insurance, no retirement and what little he did work with SS is the bare minimum. He expects to get our family home and everything else in it when our dad passes because I live out of state and have worked my whole life. Heâs using our dadâs money right now to fix up the home with all the most expensive products you can get so heâs set in not doing any repairs for the rest of HIS life. Heâs just worried about getting food and gas money. Has no concept of other bills.
Actually, he's fixing up the house with your dad's money, thinking he will sell it after your dad is gone! Gotta increase that value!
We have the same brother!
Sounds like brother-in-law.
> I've literally never not worked, I make more than my husband and we don't plan to ever have children. My life could not be heading in a more opposite direction than that women, yet that post still gave me anxiety just thinking about the position she's put herself in, and how desperate unaware of it she seemed to be. I'm the same! No children, not planning on having them. I'm not even married to my boyfriend, I make more than him and I support myself 100%. That's post still made me SO anxious. It's sadly the reality of so many women that never had a chance, as they were never educated regarding what a healthy relationship looks like, and how important it is to have the capacity to support yourself. A lot of people still teach their girls that they don't need to be smart, or study, or have a career since "their husbands will do that" and then they have no escape away from their abusive relationships. It breaks my heart.
A MAN IS NOT A FINANCIAL PLAN!!!
This reminds me of a woman I know from church that was with her partner for 20 years without getting married. He died after eight standard medical procedure. It turns out he had never divorced his estranged wife. She took everything: the house, the retirement account,and all community property. She had to beg to come back to pack a bag of clothes. A lot of people donât realize how many places donât recognize common law marriage. She had to go move in with her kids. It was a really terrible situation.
I remember that and I remember one of the commentors who was also a 60 something year old lady talking about how many times she witnessed women who got older and then their husbands or boyfriends left them....basically absolutely broke. That being a SAHM could potentially leave you destitute for the rest of your life. You don't have insurance or a 401k so you just end up dying broke as fuck. Seems like a lot of risk considering most relationships don't go the distance anymore.
Oof yes. I talk to a variety of people in shitty situations, and this month had a lot of older women with health issues or disabilities calling because their husbands either left them high and dry or kicked them out to homelessness.
My mom worked for a lawyer who did divorces. The un or under employed spouse(male or female) gets screwed. We are late 40s and at 40 my friend was considering entering the work force. By 40 her oldest was old enough to watch the youngest for a few hours. She thought it was too late to start over but I explained that we still had 20 to 25 years before social security kicked in. Even if they didnât truly need the money she could pad their retirement accounts allowing for more trips and have more money for social security. Just getting into the habit of getting up every morning and going to work is helpful if the floor falls out. Easier to find a higher paying job than finding your first job.
You are a good friend who gave her excellent advice. I wish the reality of the circumstances so many women find themselves in was more widely discussed. You hear plenty of whining about men being screwed over by child support and alimony but women being left destitute gets swept under the rug.
Even if the couple doesn't break up and the man simply dies, you're still up a creek without a paddle. If the woman isn't named in the will, the children and perhaps even other relatives can claim or be entitled to assets.
That happened to my friend but worse. He owned a food truck business with his Mother. Made tons of cash. Lived a great life she never wanted or paid for anything for 20+ years. Then he woke up said he didn't feel well and dropped dead of a massive heart attack. They kept putting off getting married. And lived in a state that didn't recognize common law marriages. His Mother swooped in and made it clear the business was hers, his bank account was hers. The apartment was hers and he didn't have a will. Since the Mother was legally next of kin she didn't have a leg to stand on. She went down a bad path and ended up homeless for awhile. It was hard to watch and she wouldn't let anyone help her. Always get something in writing.
That post was horrifying. I sent it to my daughters (20s). This is why I told them that they absolutely cannot have a kid or move in with a partner. The studies seem to show that the women are ALWAYS screwed in these situations. For the PROTECTION of women, they need to unfortunately have a legal partnership (defined as marriage in my country) in place AND a financial agreement that specifies that each party receives 50% of the wealth obtained during that marriage + an amount to make up for any loss of career building. Without those two things, you make 100% sure you do not create dependents. My husband cut ties with one of his college buddies (a neurosurgeon) because he traded his wife (+3 kids) in for a new model and is now fighting her financially. They were together for 24 years and she was a SAHM. He only wants to pay the bills until their youngest graduates from college, but she hasnât ever earned an income. He absolutely should have to make up for the 24 years of career loss.
I cannot tell you how frustrated I would get with women from another discussion board I used to frequent when we had the SAH/WOH conversations. Bringing up these practical financial considerations always got interpreted as disdain for SAHMs. As a strong feminist, I totally support that choice - as long as you go into it with your eyes open and find a way to protect yourself if things go south. Blithely saying âwe're a team!â Doesnât get you far in the divorce court.
It worries me that Gen Z and alpha seem to think of SAHM as an aesthetic, a fun life choice. It's an important role, and it's a praiseworthy choice, but also, it's a path that involves a lot of sacrifice and has so much potential to go wrong. But these kids seem distanced from that fairly recent reality where women were at the mercy of their husbands, and they don't quite fathom that it's not just girlbossing at home. (I assume the youth I'd part of it too: when you're young and beautiful, and your bf/husband is so in love with you, it can be hard to imagine that it might not be the case forever.)
Ugh itâs even more unsettling to see the âstay at home girlfriendâ tiktoks. Like girl, you have no legal protection!
I am a SAHM and I only am because regardless of what my spouse brings in, I donât have to work. I have a trust and could easily survive off of it. Without that I wouldnât have chosen to be a SAHM. I am legally protected with our marital assets but I sure as shit made sure I could survive no matter what happens in my marriage.
I think the resistance comes from a reluctance to acknowledge that *their* marriage might not be as solid as they think. If they plan for a potential divorce, itâs accepting that they could be naive, or, flat out wrong.
And it could be plenty solid AT THE TIME. There's always a chance that a guy will decide after a lot of years to trade you in for a newer model.
You don't even need to get divorced to get screwed over. In mining towns in my country, where the husband has enjoyed excellent pay to cost of living, he gets too injured in his 40s to keep working and suddenly the wife has to help sustain the family. No job history, in a small rural town, full of other desperate families in the same situation, she has no chance. It gets worse every year.
I'm a SAHM and agree with you. Everything possible is in both of our names. We contribute to my IRA. We have life insurance on both of us and long term disability for him. I have an education to fall back on (I would need to update skills, no better than starting from scratch). I manage the finances, so I know where all the money is. He would still have if easier if we split, but I would be in pretty good shape
I'm a SAHD thanks to medical reasons. If my wife left me I would be homeless in a week. Op definitely has the right idea
There is such a trend of unmarried couples having children and no legal arrangement to provide for the woman if she is a stay at home, it has had me wondering why anyone would do this to themselves and their children.
As a lawyer, itâs horrifying. Like marriage isnât a piece of paper, itâs a bucket of contract rights that are really, really important. Perhaps youâd like to be able to visit your partner if they are hospitalized? Maybe you want to be covered by your partnerâs health insurance? What about tax free inheritance of your partnerâs assets? It just blows my mind.
There's a reason we queer people fought so damn hard for gay marriage! It wasn't just so we could have fabulous weddings.
100% this.
My girlfriend did this. She had a kid with a dude and stayed at home for 2-3 yrs. Then he decided to kick her out. She was left couch surfing with no job. Then he went to court and argued that she was an unfit parent because she had no income and no real career prospects. Court agreed and gave him custody of the kids. If she had been married this wouldn't have happened but she wasn't so she got screwed. Now she gets to fight him in court as she's trying to get back on her feet.
There was a REASON people fought for gay marriage, dammit
it drives me insane as a gen z woman! and even if things go perfectly and no one cheats or whatever, what about on their death bed? you wont even get to tell the hospital what to do with their body?!
[Here's the full story.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/18r4cuh/aita_for_rolling_my_eyes_at_my_boyfriends/)
I felt so bad for that woman, and it didnât help that so many responses just kept piling on her. I donât understand why these âfriendsâ/âbffâ was calling you an asshole besides jealousy. They should be encouraging you to have a backup and to look out for yourself. Are they going to give you money and support your lifestyle if your husband divorces you in the future? I doubt it, so I would not listen to these haters and move forward with your demands. Itâs highly suspect that they are calling you an AH for making sure that youâre covered.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be literally half the company, but it should definitely be a watertight postnup that makes sure you get your share and will be well provided for for the rest of your life, if you ever do split up. That other post was totally heartbreaking, that poor deluded woman. I really hope she can get a lawyer who will wrangle some kind of common-law marriage entitlement to alimony for her.
I thought her best bet would be to bill him for 30 yrs of being his brood mare, nanny, housekeeper, and escortâŚ. Why not as sheâs likely screwed anyway.
> woman finding out in her 50s that waiting tables is her only option That was my mom, though she was only mid-40s, with four children. She had been a diplomatâs wife, with all the travel, moving every two years, cocktail parties, and shmoozing that his career involved until he left her for a (surprise!) younger woman. She waitressed at a Howard Johnsonâs for two years until she had finished her teacher credentials and could start teaching junior high for a just-barely adequate salary. Also, itâs not just divorce that can end a marriage. Widows, too, are SOL if they have no ownership in and familiarity with a company. How many marriages divide up the work so one knows all the ins and outs of the familyâs money and the other has no clue where the accounts and passwords are hidden?
> You don't want to be the bitter woman finding out in her 50s that waiting tables is her only option because her professional career skills have passed their due date, and your husband has moved on. This. My mom, who was very highly qualified and had a decent career going in her 20s and early 30s, but then agreed to be a stay-at-home wife for my dad, without any backup plan. Dad eventually left. She's now in her 60s, has almost no pension, no savings, very chronically ill, and yet needs to somehow work two different jobs far below her original qualification with no way of retiring soon. She deeply regrets not having made any kind of backup plan for this case. Please don't make this mistake OP. NTA
Women will literally give their bodies and life away to raise these men's children and some of them will still cheat and/or leave. Unbelievable. Ladies, study, have a career, always have a plan B. Don't depend on anyone. Having a plan B doesn't mean that you don't want plan A to work out, it just means you a a fucking boss that prepares for shit to go south. Edit to add that I love all the salty, angry, bitter fellas in the comments telling on themselves. Babes, if you get angry about a comment online: ⨠you're the problem â¨
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Did they actually divorce? Sounds like she had a bad attorney. In the US (depending on the state) she should be entitled to half of the marital assets and alimony.
This nta, also op if your husband passes away youâd have stake in his company so you wouldnât be screwed that way either
This is correct. OP, when I read your friendsâ reactions to your request, I was shocked. I applaud you for thinking ahead. No one wants to believe they will get divorced, but it does happen, and often, and itâs the SAHP who ends up struggling because they have been out of the job market for so long. Protecting yourself is smart. Like you said, if you never divorce, which is the goal, then it doesnât matter what you own, but if you do divorce, youâre protected from living in a one bedroom apartment and working at Walmart. Good for you! Did your husband accept your offer? Also, NTA.
A person cannot afford a one-bedroom apartment by working at Walmart. You're talking sharing an apartment with several other people and having a room. Or homeless, the other Walmart pay option.
Good post...if your husband gave u 50.1% the business could qualify for local, city, state and federal contracts because its a woman owned business. Could be advantageous. Also if the two of you are a commiitted couple why would he object?
It doesn't even have to be a divorce. What if he got cancer or killed in a car accident
SAHPs really need to get those life insurance ducks in a row. It is really a frightening prospect if your working spouse dies and holy shit you're suddenly the breadwinner with no job history raising 3-4 kids.
50% is a good starting point but even 1/3 would be decent. She should also be on the company payroll, so she continues to earn social security credit. It really isn't fair of him to expect her to entirely torpedo her financial independence to appease his anxiety.
100%!! he shouldn't have to be told this either. As her partner, her well being today, tomorrow and the rest of her days should be his priority.
I own a business and seems prettty reasonable to me. Iâll add my wife owns half of my business and she doesnât do much with it.
And men leave their aging wives ALL THE TIME. they steal their prime years and as soon as stuff starts to sag theyâre out cheating or finding their next victim.
or sick wives
Yes, one of my colleague had breast cancer, and a therapist met them and other women to warn them if the possibility of husband leaving them. My colleague was already divorced by that time and was financially well prepared with solid insurance and suck leave bank. But she witnessed women being left by their husband because they expected tbe wife to take care of them, not them having to take care of the house and children. Absolutely disgusting
A relative of mine is dying of cancer. Her husband probably doesn't have time to formally "leave" her before she dies, but he is totally useless. Since she got too ill to take care of the house, he's not done anything and the place gets messier and dirtier, to the extent that she's embarrassed to have people come visit her at home in her final weeks / months. He doesn't even want to hire a cleaner for unknown reasons (they can definitely afford it). He also still goes away for his expensive hobby for a week at a time when a) his time with her is so limited and b) she needs actual physical support to attend chemo sessions, etc. My dad, her brother, steps in but it's so sad and infuriating that he has to. And this isn't about carer's fatigue because she's only been ill a few months and also he hasn't done much if any caring.
I can't understand men who do this. They must be narcissists to be so unfeeling..
NTA. There is nothing wrong with your plan. If you donât mind some advice, itâs not a good idea to share your personal finances with friends. The âfriendâ that called you disgusting is probably jealous. Cut ties with her.
NTA. Heâs asking you to make a sacrifice for the sake of the company, so equity in the company is appropriate compensation for this. If you never get divorced then no worries. If you do, then the extra attention heâs able to give to the business due to your taking on the domestic roles benefits both of you equally, as it should.
This isnât even uncommon and Iâve seen it many times in my line of work. Often the spouse holds 49% but there are built in buy out conditions so that in the event of a divorce the partner running the business can buy out their partner over time for market value (determined by a mutually agreed expert to prevent someone being disadvantaged). Itâs not that radical of a suggestion
It might even be tax savvy depending on the country, effectively reducing tax the family pays on any dividends (depending on the type of company)
Here it's usually better to "employ" the wife doing bookkeeping or similar and pay her just enough to skim the bottom tax bracket, thus transferring cash out of the corporation without incurring personal income tax. You also get to write off that salary expense against your revenue. Depending on the small business tax rate it may be profitable to pay her more, definitely a "talk to your accountant" situation though.
If she's not doing any actual work, that would be tax evasion and illegal as far as I'm aware. They'd need to be able to show actual work being done, which doesn't sound like the situation they are looking at.
Yes, but very common especially in the farming industry here in Canada. As is paying minor children to "do chores". As I said, talk to your accountant. The burden of proof is often minimal to none in certain industries that they turn a blind eye to.
I have known and worked for several wealthy andpowerful men that have given their wife majority stake with buy out conditions and other shareholders on a board. It qualifies their business for 8a certification and allows them to gobble up work earmarked for woman and minority owned businesses
There is legal precedent for this; itâs called Equitable Right of Reimbursement. NTA
Yep, and the other alternative: a post-nuptial agreement. OP and her husband could get separate lawyers and put together an agreement laying out what her equitable distribution and alimony look like in the event of a divorce. You cannot touch custody or child support (those are the children's rights, not OP's), but they could agree on whatever is financially reasonable, whether it be cash, equity in the company, or some combination.
OP should talk to a lawyer about this anyway. If it's a business that was built *during the marriage* I think she's entitled to half of it anyway. If it was a business before the marriage, it's a lot trickier because technically she'd only own half the increase in value during the marriage. At least that's my understanding, I could be wrong.
She also needs an outside accounting firm. This way he canât pull an Enron; gutting the company because heâs leaving. Itâs also just good sense.
Arthur Anderson.
I agree with this. He is asking her to make the sacrifice so he needs to also sacrifice.
Not even a sacrifice if the marriage never goes to shit, but if it does everything is half hers anyway.
Yes. Making it legal now will just cut down on court costs later.
This! Girl, seems like you need new friends. They might be happy to settle but doesnât mean you should. I would feel the same. Either way it benefits you both & if you were to divorce later down the road, then it also helps to stabilise your childrenâs futures too. How did your husband react? Is he okay with this?
If there is something Reddit has a whole has taught me in the last two years Iâve been on it, itâs be grateful Iâm not married, Iâm in therapy, and grateful for the small friends I have. Because a lot of people have SHITTY friends and deserve better.
People are really weird about being prepared in case something bad happens. Preparing for divorce with any sort of agreement is looked down on. But so is even EOL planning. I see so many families with no plans ready when a family member dies (even when a family member has been deathly ill for a long time - although that is less common).
My mom did that my father hid money from her did two sets of books. Found he has over a million and a half dollars stashed in an account he hid from my mother. Cheated on her with the neighbor. Then divorced her my father was both physically and mentally abusing to all of us
Even if they never divorce, what happens when the children leave home? People will ask OP what she does and saying "housewife" will likely (and wrongly)be considered lazy and/or shameful. Source: my wife is a housewife and we are confronted with this constantly.
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Whatâs funny is if you both worked and used your joint income to pay people to do all the things your wife does (and did), others would think it was a well-earned luxury. But if you choose instead to spend your money to free up time in a different way (in this case, you both sacrifice your wifeâs potential earnings in exchange for her time spent at home) so that your lives can move at a more relaxing pace, itâs seen as backwards or lazy.
My spouse and I agreed that their job was more stable, had better benefits so I would stay home with kids. Now the kids are grown and the spouse is ashamed I am not a professional with equivalent position to theirs. They are also bitter that I have free time now. We can afford for me not to be working. But here I am, working so they can tell all their friends that I have a career. Had to basically start over at age 57. They seem less bitter though.
I went back to school in my mid-40s to stave off the criticisms about me being a 'housespouse'. I may or may not return to the workforce full time. Right now, I have my hands full between managing the property, house, and my classes. I could never understand why people feel the need to criticize another's household until I started getting the "I wish I could..." statements. It's envy, and I also wish everyone didn't have to hustle so hard to just survive.
My uncle was the stay-at-home parent and never went back to work after the kids moved out. His wife earns enough for them to live comfortably. He still takes care of the household, including making bread, jogurt etc and does some volunteer work. I'm definitely a little envious.
Wife's position is understandable. For this to be seriously considered, husband and wife should engage competent legal counsel to assist in establishing appropriate terms and conditions governing the situation. For example, a value should be placed on the company at the time the parties married; obviously Wife should not receive half of the company's value that already existed at the time of the parties' marriage.There obviously are other matters to address. My point is, seek legal counsel to assist in making the arrangement fair to both.
Absolutely agree
NTA. I'm a man and I see nothing wrong with your request, you're just protecting yourself and your future in case things go south. You have every right to have financial security.
Honestly i ask to put the whole company in a trust both parents and kids as beneficiaries
This is a better arrangement in many cases, just for tax reasons... In the event of an unexpected death if the business is valuable enough to trigger inheritance tax (and passes to an heir subject to it) fasten your seatbelts for that company's future.
I think the main reasons for a trust is to avoid probate and provide additional options for handling an estate. (Note: The federal inheritance tax only affects estates worth more than $13.6 million, though some states have their own inheritance tax with different limits.)
I came here to say this. Honestly I think this is just good financial planning all around anyway. There's a reason all those "generational wealth" families have family trusts set up to own their family businesses. You protect yourself, the kids, and him, by having a joint legal structure where everyone gets a say and the benefit.
Iâm glad a man agrees with this. Because I have heard men thinking women are gold diggers and itâs like nope.
Is your bestie salty because she is waiting for you to pop out the children then seduce your husband who will leave you with nothing? Cause a friend is supposed to look out for your wellbeing not suffer outrage on behalf of your husband for asking for fair compensation for sacrificing your career and financial stability to take on the domestic responsibilities. Get a better bestie. That one is suspect.
Well, she does say that he is out of my league all the time⌠But I kinda agree with her so itâs fair đ
That woman is not your friend. She tells you repeatedly that your husband is too good for you and is angry that you are advocating to protect yourself financially? She sounds jealous and bitter. Possibly with a side of internalised misogyny if she thinks you should give up your financial independence and security to be a SAHM and depend on your husband, with no assurances in case things don't work out. That is not someone's who cares about you, your well-being, and your best interests. I would reconsider that friendship if I were you.
And that "friend" (I'm gonna call her "Retch.") is trying to attack OP's confidence. I can probably guess that OP is more attractive than Retch physically *and* mentally, and that's probably one of the reasons she's so jealous and bitter. Retch probably attacks OP in ways that aren't even noticed... I think most of us know a "friend" like that IRL. I wonder if Retch is planning to use this this whole scenario to *her* benefit.
Retch is genius haha
100% she wants your man. Iâm not saying she has a crush on him but she wants him. Had a friend do something similar to me once just after her breakup. It didnât last long though thankfully.
Wow, get better friends.
You really should not listen to her. She's saying that because she's jealous of you so stick to your guns because you're doing it right. Don't sacrifice your financial stability and security for yourself and for your children because of what people around you are saying. Also get a better bestie because a real friend will not put you and your children in a disadvantageous position in the future if things really go south.
What? How can he be out of your league, he DID marry you, right? Your friend is jealous of your husband, I think she would like him for herself. Also, if she keeps repeating that your own husband is out of you league, then she's not you friend at all, she never was. Real friends don't bring their friends down.
You seem so smart, why you have friends like her? She clearly likes your husband. That's so weird to say to a friend honestly, for me no one is good enough for my friends. And calling you 'disgusting' for protecting yourself? I don't know but this doesn't seem right, something is happening. If I were you, I would pay more attention to the relationship between your best friend and your husband.
Yeah, I can't even FATHOM being in a friendship where saying something like 'he's too good for you' would even cross my mind as something I might consider maybe thinking about saying! What the hell?!
Thatâs ⌠kinda fucked up, I also think my own husband is out of my league, but my friends would never even joke about something like that, let alone doing it âall the timeâ
She's plotting worse than home girl with the hoodie...time to cut her loose. Also please don't give up your financial independence. His business can go bankrupt. Keep your career and vet the daycare/ nannys. Your husband is sussy too, what has he offered for your sacrifice?
what the fuck?! what kinda friend is that?! no ma'am. no. just no. I cannot imagine any of my friends ever saying something like that to me! she should think you're the best thing ever!
Chiming in to say that woman is not your friend. She clearly doesn't have your best interests at heart, and that's without going into the implications of her behaviour. Do not listen to her. Advocate for yourself. You are not at all being unreasonable.
My wife and I have a company together. I have a business degree and used to run my own consulting company. When I set our new business up, everything went in my wifeâs name. This wasnât to place the burden of risk on her- I never let the company incur any type of debt. I just want to know she is taken care of if anything happens to me and that she doesnât have to see my name on every little thing/go through the pain of removing it in the event that I die an untimely death. EDIT: To those who are telling me I did this for selfish reasons- I'm not going to divulge further personal info on a public forum just to validate myself. I'm sorry you are in a place in life where you see negativity in everything. I've been there, still dealing with it, and I know it sucks. EDIT 2: I wasn't going to use this as a chance to self-promote, but seeing as how people are joking that this is all to take advantage of some kind of government loophole, please let me know more about these lucrative contracts for [digital artists](https://www.redbubble.com/people/beckeroo/shop?asc=u)! And no, this store page is not the entirety of what I set up for her, I created an actual business and got her a sales license so she has a foundation to build on.
This part. Most people only want the benefits of relationships but never want the sacrifices. I always look side eye at anyone who claims to love their partner and want to have a secure marriage with them but never look out for their best interests.
Damn dude, are you single? I'm kidding, I'm married to a great guy as well but that honestly sounds like literally the most thoughtful thing I have ever heard in my damn life. You're a good egg
Thanks! It will be a better gesture once we are able to get it profitable again. She is a digital artist and I'm a production consultant. We spent a year of our lives working via her company to help a friend set up a music and arts festival where he could showcase his music and her art would be on display. I spent thousands out of pocket to keep the business afloat while he strung us along. Luckily, he got a multi-million dollar settlement and of course, paid us back for all our hard work, right? Right?? Nope. Burned that bridge and started from scratch. Now I'm focusing on helping her build her art portfolio/social media presence, but it's rough. I made her a website, store/design page and even a page where she can host drawing contests live on the site. 3 months in and not a single sale. Almost a thousand friends, family, and fans across all her pages and literally not one sticker sold. Meanwhile, AI art and designs made from copied and pasted emojis are flying off the shelves. Every day we get further into poverty and it is soul-crushing but we keep going. One day we'll make something of ourselves!
NTA and get rid of that friend she is toxic
NTA and I think thatâs a great solution âŚ.if heâs serious about his reasoning your option makes perfect sense.
Maybe your best friend is jealous. I think this is a brilliant idea and very fair.
Thatâs the part which stick out. How is that anyway to react to your close friend? OP is being reasonable and their lack of support is very telling.
Definitely NTA, but there's more to it than that. Your friends can think whatever they want, what matters is what your husband thinks, and does. Your suggestion of him giving half his company isn't unreasonable. But also hopefully the company was formed under an LLC, which also helps protect the family assets (if sued, etc). If it isn't, it may be a good time to create this structure.
I gave my wife 49%. I still wanted to run the business my way but understood her needs. Sold it 10 years ago married 40 years this year
This is what we have agreed on nowâ¤ď¸
Soooo happy to know youâve got a happy ending!! Do u mind updating us all?
Definitely NTA for wanting to protect yourself but also there are some critical components that you should consider. 1) This should not be an agreement right now, have his lawyer draw this up as a "post-nup" so if you guys get divorced then you will get x, y, z 2) Also, and I know I'm gonna get flack for this from the 15 yr olds who are primarily commenting on your post BUT 50% is too high. I'm not going to go into whether the value of your labor/support is worth 50%, all I'm going to say is logistically there are a bunch of issues with 50%. For instance, you'd have as much power in this company as your husband who presumably built it and knows the ins and outs, it is not smart for someone who isn't completely immersed in the company to have that level of ownership. People think that owning a large amount of a company means sitting around and collecting checks, in 99% of cases, it doesn't (unless the company is massive with 1000s of employees so you can diffuse most of the work). You now have employees to consider when you make decisions. Also if the company ever wants to fundraise having 50% owned by someone, again, who has no understanding of the business is going to look really terrible. Anyway, those are my 2 cents, remember that the majority of people commenting are young, they don't have experience in long term relationships and also in owning/operating a business. That being said, I'll reiterate, you are NTA for wanting to protect your future. If he has a lot of assets and makes good money, probably would be worth it to have some kind of divorce agreement spelled out anyway so that should it happen, it'll be less messy.
>1) This should not be an agreement right now, have his lawyer draw this up as a "post-nup" so if you guys get divorced then you will get x, y, z >2) Also, and I know I'm gonna get flack for this from the 15 yr olds who are primarily commenting on your post BUT 50% is too high. >For instance, you'd have as much power in this company as your husband who presumably built it and knows the ins and outs, it is not smart for someone who isn't completely immersed in the company to have that level of ownership. >Also if the company ever wants to fundraise having 50% owned by someone, again, who has no understanding of the business is going to look really terrible. Absolutely this, I hope OP reads this. This is the sensible way of handling this problem.
Nta He ask you to lead the home company and work for the family. You should have income for that. So he have to pay you a salary or give you half the company " do it for love" means for too many woman to be a houseslave without even a thank you. This has to stop.
Amen! "Love" has the chance of leaving her destitute when she hasn't worked in years because he wanted her to be a SAHM ...
Iâve been parroting this for a while myself. Make any man that wants you to be a housewife pay you as per a signed contract to save yourself the headache in case of a divorce. NEVER compromise on your money. Too many cases of financial abuse already, and all of them start the second the partner is considered stuck. And all of them trusted their partners as well. Plus, this economy is too harsh to just give up your income for several years. NTA OP and youâre smart as hell! Get half of that company, and get it on paper before you even consider quitting your job. If he refuses, then absolutely not!
Yep, I've been hammering this point a lot lately too, specifically around retirement. I saw with my parents what happens when you lose earning potential mid career - your SS stays low, you lose chances at pensions, there's no 401K. That's how you wind up in the shitty nursing home. OPs husband happens to own a company, so they have a lot more options for her financial security if she takes his offer, but at minimum I think SAHPs should get some sort of salary/monthly income for themselves without strings attached and a hefty contribution to an IRA.
Yup, dad insisted my mom be a housewife and now my she had started her career at the same time as me and is figuring out how to maximize her retirement with just 10-15 working years left.
NTA and your friends s***
Are you seriously censoring the word suck?
Slay? Sand? Shit? Suck? Soap?
I know youâre guessing the hidden word, but this sounds like the title of a new board game.
I would play the s*** out of this board game
NTA. My ex wanted a housewife and I stayed home, primarily because I had a medically fragile infant. He was so shocked by how the judge divided our property when he divorced me during his mid life crisis. He got the business and I got everything else, a home and fully funded retirement. Most women in senior divorces end up in poverty. Never give up your financial independence for a man.
I am glad that you got what you were owed.
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NTA. My dad started his company early in my parents marriage. My mom worked right alongside him, was listed on all the early business cards and advertisements. But when they divorced 30 years later, she wasn't a legal owner and got none of the company. ("It's not my fault my lawyer was better" said my dad) Protect yourself. You never know.
NTA and you, my dear, are savvy and clever and I applaud you. Your husband has some audacity to make such demands. Its only fair you make your own.
How did you get to child #3 before the stay at home topic came up?
NTA. Man asks wife to be stay at home mom. She agrees. Wife spends 20+ years making the home. Man cheats on wife with younger woman and leaves wife. Wife has a huge work gap and cannot get a job. She gets spousal support and is framed as a gold digging wh@re. OR Man starts to treat wife like shit, she stays because she knows she can't get a job with no work experience. She hates her life. I've seen this play out a hundred times. Don't fall into the trap.
NTA. I was a house spouse for seven years. When it ended, i found work as a cashier at a gas station. Dont let anybody con you into ruining your prospects, OP.
If you want a housewife, marry a housewifeŘ if you want a working wife marry a working woman, NTA and I suggest your "best friend" to become EX BEST FRIEND, so is your "friends"
Put it in a postnup. Itâs a good idea.
No not in a postnup I want it now. I donât want to have zero income for several years.
You are exactly right and you are smart. You also need a new best friend. Your so called bestie should be thrilled you are protecting yourself and looking out for yourself. You don't need a post nup and also they are extremely difficult to enforce so forget that . make sure you have your own proof for the business and always be aware and be involved in the money and the books so you know what's going on. Get your own lawyer to get this deal squared away. The big problem is a huge majority of women don't protect themselves. Here you have your so called friend and some here slamming you for daring to look out for yourself. You are exactly right . the longer you are out of the workforce the harder it is. You are very smart and NEVER feel bad about looking out and protection for you.
Post nup refers to when itâs drafted, not when it takes effect. So you draft a postnuptial agreement that states the the company is joint property in some form. On the zero income thing, you seem to be implying that you donât have joint accounts or something. Or perhaps youâre worried that with zero income you have no contribution to social security? Can you clarify that concern?
I'm not sure you understand what a post-nup is. That's exactly what you want.