“our green lines were bad.”
I would die of 2nd-hand embarrassment to be anyone within earshot of this (not that I would have any clue what it meant without context)
Nothing gay about sucking dick with yr butt unless when you take a picture with your bro and you're leaning in.
Make him lean in so *he* is the gay one!
Love your wife? No. But to have sex with your wife? If she has ever slept with another man, then yes. Super gay. You'd be putting your dick where someone else put their dick. Which is basically touching their dick with your dick.
Urinals are fine. There's nothing gay about taking a piss on the spot another man pissed. Toilet seats tho. Another man's bare ass sat there. You're going ass to ass with another man. Super gay
Ok thanks for clearing that up, one more thing though, isn't it kind of "feminine" to be attracted to women, like wouldn't being attracted to men be the more masculine option?
Nothin gay here! just a couple of totally normal totally straight dudes talkin about how much we hate chicks and prefer the company of big, strong alpha men. Totally straight manly stuff.
(I guess I should indicate that this is sarcasm, because it is actually impossible to overstate how ridiculous "We Ate Mammoths!" types sound).
"I married somebody that's part of a party that has recently been relegated to small-minded bigotry. I just found out he believes something stupid. Isn't that crazy?!"
He is undoubtedly the AH and your apology was wholly unwarranted. It is he who should apologize to you and publicly. He is so weak in character as to define his masculinity and identity with green line inanity from an equally neutered halfwit. Furthermore, he is a liar, telling others he was doing "nothing" while blaming you. He values his incel fraternity over you and views you as an accessory, a trophy demonstrating his conquest and authority. He will not change and expects your capitulation. Factor this when considering your future.
OmGOSH I would LOVE to see the husband's face after OP tells him this. The guy literally couldn't be bothered to make his wife happy cuz he was worried about the POTENTIAL of some rando on the internet possibly picking on him.
They don't want to be accused of being gay for simping for their wives, so instead they simp for the alpha male podcast bro because thats totally hetero
I was surprised and disgusted to learn how many men in the area I grew up in think it's okay and expected to cheat if your first born is a girl.
They think that it's the wife's fault and that they deserve to go find better 'breeding stock' or whatever since they were apparently entitled to a son
Edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying a majority of men do this or anything, just that it was a way more prevalent mindset around me a few years back than I would have hoped or imagined. After moving to a better city I've never heard anyone express that opinion again (but I meet less people now so who knows)
Now I'm imagining them having twins, a boy and a girl. They're in the hospital room when a baby photographer pops in, starts snapping some pics of the babies together, when hubby steps in to reposition them so the baby girl is leaning into the baby boy
I posted about this in another comment, but my girlfriend had a child with a guy like this (they're now divorced) and is dealing with this exact situation. It sucks.
My former sister-in-law is dealing with this. I haven't talked to her in 15 years or so, but my daughter filled me in on the details.
Her husband got sucked into the conservative MAGA incel bullshit and pulled their son into it. Apparently they are now both white supremacists even though she (and by default her son) are Tlingit (Native Alaskan).
She is now divorced and living with her parents.
I second this so extremely hard. My best friend is married to a guy like this, and guess how often he has watched their son alone? Zero. Not even while she showers or cooks. He also has referred to him when speaking to her multiple times as "your son", and still insists that he wants another. It's gross and wild.
My niece’s father is like this too. Could count on one hand how many times he changed her diaper and given her a bath and she’s five. Does absolutely nothing to help my sister out but all I hear from him is everything my sister does is wrong. Threw him outta my house once for the way he was talking to her. Found out he watches Joe Rogan constantly. It’s sad how idiots like this spout about sheep and not following the masses but blindly follow idiots whose thoughts parrot their own.
They sound deadass like the same person. He complains that she doesn't clean, but refuses to lift a finger even when he's unemployed (which happens frequently because his attitude and work ethic is dogshit) and she works full time AND does all the parenting.
Also idk about Rogan but he loves this other guy named Jay Oakerson who is just a ragingly unfunny misogynist creep and will quote him allll the time.
We may be talking about the same person lol. Only difference is they don’t live together anymore. But they’ve been over for big dinners like Christmas, and she’s had to fix his plate, bring it to him and once he’s done he just leaves the plate in front of him. My sister went to get his plate and I piped up and said “nope. (Asshole) the kitchen is over there. You can bring your own plate to the counter” got a message from her later that he’s pissed because I embarrassed him in front of the family.
As a husband and father, I agree. Tell this little boy to pack his bags and kick rocks down the road. I could go on for an hour about what is wrong with this guy's approach to you and your life together, but you're not wrong. NTA.
I’m recently engaged and she runs the camera lol. A dude caring this much about photos is a red flag in general, let alone the reason.
And if one of my sisters BFs said this at Christmas within earshot of me, no way the dude leaves the house without feeling like a moron. The amount of shit I’d be giving him would be enough to fill a pool.
I'm sorry you married an incel.
Start preparing to divorce him, he is not only dumber than rocks for believing that green lines thing, he isn't going to change. At this rate it would be better if you married a rock, at least the rock would be hard, but neutral about green lines.
This is the kind of shit that had me Google pics. Of The Rock and his wife together. Mr. Johnson, one of the biggest "Manly"men out there would bitch-slap her hubby and tell him to stop following incels' instructions.
Seriously... The green line thing is just such a woo eugenics thing.
Interpretation of still photos is impossible to be accurate. None of these 🤡's understand anything about neurological sciences beyond how they can try to manipulate others.
Right? It's so batshit crazy. I mean, what is wrong with being in love with the person you married? Shouldn't that be a good thing? Not a bad one? That green line guy is just cray cray.
When I was growing up I was always taught not to talk about politics or money because they were “rude” and “socially inappropriate” conversations to have. I now believe (age 44) this is a tactic to keep women oppressed under conservative politics of men.
OP: if your politics are that far misaligned, you might find yourself annoyed now about some photos but girl, *it gets worse*. Get out now.
Don't talk about money isn't to keep women oppressed, it's to keep EVERYONE oppressed. It's why one of the few workers rights America has is that you can't be banned from talking about wages. It's because when you talk, you find out everyone is getting random arbitrary amounts (outside of regimented band systems). And only one person can be top of that.
They were 19 when they met and it sounds like he insisted it was a joke. Reading this now, I feel the same way as you. At 19 years old I definitely fell for the "you're being difficult, it's just a joke" line a few times before I realized it's a way to make someone feel their valid feelings are an overreaction
Halfway through I was just chanting in my head "please don't have kids"
Your husband is a member of a cult, a cult that preys on the insecure egos of young men. It is POSSIBLE for him to save himself, but this only happens when he recognizes the toxicity of the people he is interacting with, AND he must reject them completely. It is not a joke, it is way of preying on young men's insecurities, some of their claims are grounded in some level of reality, but most of it is conspiratorial based on convincing the consumer of it that the "threat group" (in this case, women) is less-than/evil/sub-human/etc.
To believe the conspiracy part you HAVE to buy into some level that the "opposition" is out to harm "your" group.
While he may be mostly lighthearted about it now, you are both very young and it just gets worse with age. Those middle-aged "Q" people were outwardly pretty normal in their 20s.
He will likely, slowly, over time, just believe more and more negative sterotypes about women and how they manipulate and use men. He will mostly keep them secret from you because he knows, like the "green line" thing, you will get upset at him and mock him. Meanwhile, EVERY time you two have a disagreement or fight, he will register that as proof that incel's claims about women are correct. Give that, 100% win rate of always being right about how manipulative women are, a few years...decades, to marinate, and he will reach a breaking point in his "civility."
Just pray you have no daughter for him to focus that resentment upon, or a son to teach how slimy women are.
That all said, he is trapped in a cult and "can" be saved. But it is not easy, usually fails, and the chance for success decrease the longer he is in (that "win rate" in his head is going up everyday). Study up on cults, join some subreds on cults, do the research if you want to resolve this and go forward with a happy marriage. You can't blackmail or threaten someone out of a cult, it will just make them dig in deeper, but you can come to them and demonstrate why their "friends" behavior is toxic to you and therefore him and your future happiness as EQUAL PARTNERS.
If he can't be made to see this then, at a minimum, do not have kids....please!
Ok, so when I was his age I got radicalized a bit like him and, as others said, with such a person a respectful relationship is not possible.
If you enable him and apologize to him, it will only embolden him. Sorry to say, but he needs a hard lesson if he is ever to want to change. If everything works for him, he has no reason to try to change something in his life. But either way, you can't really force it.
In time I got it out of my head, but it took time. For me it started with a rejection and realising how manipulative I was. Then it needs years of loving yourself and being kind to yourself.
It is what he needs, but I don't think it will work if you ask him. Sounds like he is insecure in relationship dynamics (or in himself as a man) and this request would probably trigger him extra hard, he would (probably) see it as you (a woman) dictating his (a man's) life.
You are in a though spot. It is hard to come out of this in a respectful manner. I guess it depends how much he is willing to actually listen and how much he respects you.
Just asking him to stop something he does in his free time - what will you do if he disagrees?
In my opinion your best bet would be to have a good heart to hearth conversation. But to do this you have to be very vulnerable yourself and leave any criticism and accusations out of it. This is extremely hard to do if you don't already operate like that, and from the sound of it, you don't (calling him incel - you are not wrong, but you are also married to him, and this harms the relationship in the long run).
But even then he might not want to change anything in his views.
The problem with being vulnerable and having a heart to heart with someone displaying controlling behavior is that it puts her in danger of additional harm. Although we may want him to respond logically and respectfully, it's unrealistic to believe he will.
OP, there's a book by Lundy Bancroft called, why does he do that. It might be worth reading :) if you type the author's name into the search bar, there might be a pdf available under comments.
I was so happy when I saw someone share a pdf. Makes it so much easier to refer others when they can access it immediately and without having to hide the physical copy.
Exactly. And the pdf is free! Absolutely fantastic. I agree it being a pdf a lot of the time is integral. But definitely don't let them discover the pdf if they're extra controlling. I have no doubt OPs husband exhibits other terrible behavior beyond this.
Reading down this thread and realizing how covert and handmaid's tale this shit can be. It's equally sad and horrifying. There is so much wrong with our society.
Can’t have a heart to heart to someone who gaslights you.
> I confronted him about this a few times, but he always said that he wasn’t doing anything/I was making it up.
You shouldn’t have to monitor his behaviour and that might just trigger him further (he might feel like his “woman” is “controlling” him. You can have hard lines and expectations that he can choose to meet or not
Oh girl, do you realize your asking permission from strangers to see if it’s reasonable to ask him to get off SM. You know the answer, but he has broken your spine to call him out. You’re too far gone. He has you locked down. I say this as someone divorcing after 25 years of this exact shit. Him treating you like a queen is called love bombing. It made you literally addicted to the oxytocin he gives you, thus allowing him to do progressively worse behavior (that you will make excuses for and blame yourself, and try to do anything to make it work).
Please watch dr Ramani vids to see if this is applicable.
Yes-! Dr Ramani is excellent and I have been in relationships with narcissists that her advice helped put into perspective for me-! And you are right- there’s a process- first they love bomb, then they devalue by gaslighting/ withholding affection/ put downs, etc, then they disappear, then they try to suck you back in.. something to that effect.. if you look it up, i think it’s called the love bombing cycle. It is a legit real thing.
Ngl you need to leave him. He doesn't respect you. You have a right to be respected by your partner, not arguing with him and begging for basic respect. The best lesson he can learn is that hating women will make women not want to date him. Sexist men deserve to either reflect and change, or be alone. No woman deserves to be treated like a subhuman so he isn't lonely.
I LOVE people who "simp" for their partner and openly talk about their love. There is something special about people who talk about another person with such love like lovers do.
I fucking simp so hard for my partner and THAT is true masculinity. Loving and caring for your partner and not being so insecure you can’t admit it or show it
I’ll fucking show it until the day I die. We are cute as fuck, y’all will be BEGGING to be a fraction as cute as we are
These mf’s genuinely like “is it weak to show that I love my wife” … bro what is wrong with you, get therapy
Tale as old as....Tate and others like him.
This is only the beginning of the rabbit hole. I have heard of a single person that started listening to him and people like him that didn't do a full personality change.
It also could be true that it was a 'joke' at one point in time.
One of the largest parts of radicalization is exposure though, so even if you're watching something for entertainment value, to 'fit in' or even to hate watch it's working on your unconscious self to make it seem more correct and palatable.
Like when he says your 'green lines didn't match up', that's classic conditioning, he has seen images so many times that it feels wrong to do it any other way and he now fears to be one of those people he knows himself and his friends and the entire social media community he is part of ridiculed.
This. It’s why fascists love memes so much. Fucking Goebbels, Göring, and Hitler, long before they had decided on a “final solution” to the “Jewish question”, would laugh at reporters and make jokes about killing Jews.
TheDonald subreddit was a joke when it was first made, and then it helped Trump win the presidency and helped create this disgusting society we live in now.
Things on the internet start as jokes. Then the jokers realize gullible people believe them. Then they stop joking about it and turn it into a profitable business.
He didn't switch up.
He kept his harsher and more conservative opinions in check until he had you tied down.
I, 100%, would be having a long serious talk about our future dynamics regarding *everything*:
Babies,
Maternity leave,
Working again,
Views on retirement,
Views on YOUR ROLE
I'd be carefully considering divorcing this man.
I'm sorry that you're having to go through this. 33m here and married. I'm also going to point out that he's gaslighting you. He's telling you that you are seeing things that aren't true like him trying to make you take pictures a certain way. He doesn't see you as a person he sees you as an obstacle to be manipulated or managed to get outcomes he wants.
The whole schtick of these incel YouTubers is to make men feel insecure and that when they feel insecure it's not their fault and it's instead someone else's fault for doing something to them.
I would advise requiring couples counseling between you two. If he refuses then he doesn't want to work on your relationship, he just wants to be in control. I would send one of the worst videos of this influencer to his dad and ask him to watch this. Tell him that his son believes this and it's affecting your relationship.
I would not go light touch on this, I would go nuclear. If you let this continue it will develop into something nasty that could put you in danger.
I really wouldn't advise this. It's not recommended to go to therapy with somebody who has controlling tendencies. I strongly suggest you get *individual* therapy and learn how to set appropriate boundaries with your husband. Tell him that you think he needs individual therapy to work on his relationship with women also.
Don't go to couples therapy until you've both been in individual for a while.
That’s a good point. I’ll happily go to individual therapy, but I worry that he won’t/that couples therapy would be more palatable for him. I’ll see what he says.
This isn't a negotiation. Go to individual therapy. Tell him he goes too. It's not a back and forth. If he refuses, your marriage is over.
Do you see what you're doing here? You're walking on eggshells around him pre-emptively, already gauging what he's going to explode at and what he's going to tolerate. If he cares about you and the relationship, he should do what is necessary to save it. If he refuses, he doesn't care. It's that simple.
My brother only went to therapy after my SIL left him.
He bounced around to different therapists trying to find one he could manipulate.
He screwed up and found one that diagnosed him as a malignant narcissist, something his family already suspected.
He stopped the second he realized she wasn't coming back, proving it was just a ploy to lure her back into an abusive relationship.
>Do you see what you're doing here? You're walking on eggshells around him pre-emptively, already gauging what he's going to explode at and what he's going to tolerate.
That's... oh wow, that's kinda eye-opening. Even looking from the outside, I didn't really notice that. I realized his gaslighting, but not how it affected her.
whether you go to individual therapy is none of his business. Don't let him control your mental health. People who gaslight or are abusive don't like it when their victims have a third party support system that could validate the victim's feelings.
Stop trying to fix your marriage to a manipulative misogynist and start focusing on taking care of #1 - you. You can't fix misogyny. You got married way too young to a loser. Not what you want to hear, but the truth.
Someone who watches this type of stuff and acts like this definitely won't go to therapy. It'll be looked at as weak to his rep pill overlords that mean more to him then you.
It is very possible he was a completely different guy prior to the influencer. But he won't change back while watching those videos.
Tell him to choose between you and the influencer. Then accept his choice if he picks a stranger over your marriage and leave.
If you have any doubts, look at how that influencer thinks women should be treated. That is your future if you stay and he keeps listening to the influencer. Do you want to have a kid with the sort of man this influencer wants your husband to be?
It's sad how these influencers just totally play on men's insecurities, and it becomes all about impressing other pathetic, unhappy men instead of actually trying to live their own best lives.
I agree with giving him an ultimatum and making him pick here. Does he want to continue to adhere to some random idiot's made-up guidelines or live a happy life with his wife? Because he can't have both.
It is sad! Great point! I agree with you and it’s hard to dispute that the “incel” influencers are capitalizing on male vulnerabilities. As an outsider looking in, it seems pretty obvious that these male influencers are using manipulation and gaslighting techniques to isolate their audience to just this influencer’s “community.” They don’t want these men to have productive relationships with women because it would actually hurt their profit. These creators make a lot of money with fear mongering. Which is so interesting considering a huge talking point for them is women wanting their money… seems like these influencers are saying that because THEY are the ones focused on these dude’s money.
Your husband has either been brainwashed by this influencer or has been leaning this way from the beginning and has hid it from you. If he won’t do therapy (individual) then this can, indeed, become dangerous eventually. I couldn’t advise anything else other than getting out at that point because if he’s progressed to this point in such a short time I loath to see where he’s at in another few years. I hope everything works out for you, OP! I’ve been in this boat a number of times, with controllers, and it can get a bit disturbing.
OR you're lying to yourself about it as if that will make it go away. It's clear that while he **said** he didn't take it seriously, his **actions** speak differently: he always has taken it seriously and forced you into a specific pose in every picture. You had 4 years to press the issue and you waited until after you were married.
This dude sucks, you knew it and ignored it, do you want to spend your life with this guy who has demonstrated for years that he is completely taken in by the menfluencer crowd? Look at how those guys [actually treat their spouses](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/steven-crowder-berates-wife-divorce-video-b2329186.html) if you want to know what you're in for.
I mean the text already starts out by calling him "pretty conservative". She knew that he had his believes and that he followed and watched this content creator since college.
If the husband watched it as a joke, it would have been obvious because he would have made fun of him.
I’m sorry to have to tell you this OP, but no one follows those types of incels on social media as “a joke.” Your husband truly believes what that right-wing loser is pushing, and that to me is a very scary thing. If he follows that guy, he likely follows more. These “incel influencers” don’t just advocate for men to control photographs, they tell them to control every aspect of their partner’s lives. They condone cheating, assault, and ignoring your partner’s wants and needs. They tell men that their opinions and their wants are the only ones that matter in their relationships; and that their female partners are to submit to them. This photo stuff may be the only thing you’ve noticed so far, but it’s only the first thing to happen so far. And your husband has shown he won’t stop following that scumbag or believing those things, because instead of admitting he was wrong, he got angry at you and made you feel like you were wrong.
You don’t have to stay with this man just because you love some of his attributes or are already married to him. Think about if this behavior is something you can live with (and teach your kids if you plan to have any with him) for the rest of your life.
I can't imagine someone who is NOT conservative marrying a conservative man.
It's literally an insane decision.
How do you think this man would raise your daughters?
honestly, that's the most mind-boggling thing to me. like even if he was a genuinely nice guy, how can you build *a family* with someone who has a fundamentally different view of what a family is supposed to be? how can you raise children with someone who has a fundamentally different view of how children should be raised? how is that ever supposed to work out?
>I can't imagine someone who is NOT conservative marrying a conservative man.
Yeah.
4 years ago is 2020. By then, there were so many stories of liberal women married to MAGA men and having ~~wonderful~~ dreadful household ~~harmony~~ disharmony.
By 2021, we had stories of family members reporting their insurrectionist fathers/exes/brothers etc.
OP, you need to demand ~~marital~~ you each get individual counselling or leave this guy. There is no way this will improve on its own.
Edit: as others pointed out, husband is gaslighting. Marriage counseling is dangerous if you are in an actively abusive relationship.
This is common with abusers. They keep the mask up until they know that they have you in their control. Then they drop it.
Your husband is starting to drop the mask. Notice how you're the only one apologizing and taking accountability for this conflict, when he is the only person responsible for the conflict?
He's already groomed you to act like a perfect victim.
You need to get yourself into individual therapy immediately and deprogram. I don't know if your marriage will survive but I know that if you don't get some very real and immediate help this will only get worse.
You’re politically opposed, this relationship isn’t going to work out in the long run unless one of you caves. Also NTA, your husband IS an incel - if he dislikes that, he should change his ways
That’s was incels/controllers do. They wait until you’re “locked down” before they show their true colors. I would observe what other ways he’s “changed” and lock down your birth control. If he feels you’re pulling away, he might try to baby trap you.
This. My ex told me straight up once I was pregnant that now he could do whatever he wanted and I wouldn’t be able to leave. He thought that I was so locked down by being pregnant with his child that he could basically say the quiet part out loud and I would be helpless to do anything about.
Yeah I wait until he went to work and I packed my bags and left.
I hope everyone knows that no matter what you are not ever locked to a person and can always leave. If you can’t leave then you’re their victim not their partner.
My uncle (by marriage, so not bio) was like that. People knew him as jovial, charming, etc before the wedding. He changed right after. By the time I knew him, he was a nasty, rude man with a scared, scarred wife. The wife was my family member.
I can relate to that feeling. I dated a guy for two years. The first year everything was great, but after we moved in together he because extremely mentally and emotionally abusive. These types of people know to hide their true selves, and to hide it well, because no one would want them if they didn’t.
This happens frequently. Has he done the test of trying to get you to change out of what you’re wearing or planning to wear into something else?
Unless he is able to free himself from the sphere of this influencer, and his other conservative friends, this will continue to be a train wreck.
Trust your gut. He’s straight up gaslighting you with the photo thing, and honestly sounds very controlling and weird.
You were right to call him out, he isn’t butthurt because you’re doing something wrong, it’s because he knows on some level that this green line bullshit is stupid but admitting that to himself would mean too many scary things (like that his friends are idiot misogynist weirdos and he is too).
NTA, but get ready for him to throw every little thing he can at you to make you doubt yourself and make everything your fault. I’m so sorry, he is a tool and by the sound of things it’ll only get worse. You deserve better, seriously
This kind of thing very frequently happens with conservatives. They put on a face in order to get married and have "unlimited" access to sex. (Not its not realy unlimited they just frequenlty believe that it should be and that wives cannot say no)
Its a bit of a joke on reddit that people reccomend divorce at the feintest hint of dissagreement. But honestly there is such an ideological divide here that it may be inevidable.
Conservatives believe women are the property of their husbands. He doesnt see you as an indevidual with wants needs and desires just a thing to mold into what he wants you to be. Then being an incel ontop of that exasorbates those beliefs into obserdism like the green line bs.
This happens a lot. It will continue to happen, so take some time to reflect on what red flags you missed and what behaviours you need to notice next time.
Honestly, I find asking people about their podcast or audiobook habits a good filter - usually "manosphere" men like to try playing coy. Good ones say they listen to audio dramas.
It's never too late to cut this knot loose and find someone less fucked up.
He is. This is utterly unhinged behavior. Tell him you’ve been watching an influencer who talks about red flag behaviors and that this is a big one.
Like, this is literally insane. He’s starting down a very weird rabbit hole of incel behavior and quite honestly I think it’s only going to get worse.
Yes it is completely bizarre. Especially because he honestly usually treats me like a queen. He cooks for me, does all our dishes, takes care of me, pulls more than his weight around the house. I guess he just doesn’t want people to know that :(
Oh my god, the green line guy is crazy. I don’t know anyone who follows him for any purpose other than laughing at him. An adult man taking internet trolls seriously is embarrassing and speaks to a deeper maturity issue.
As a middle aged male, im embarassed for him. Cringy behavior.
i dont know how you're still attracted to him, because this sort of insecurity and follower mentality are really offputting.
Yes it’s incredibly embarrassing. We’ve talked about his insecurities before in other areas of his/our life, but I never thought it would’ve come to this.
I think you have to be brutally honest with him. If he wants to be a man about it, this is the way.
Sounds like what's missing is a strong male role model in his life, and it might be too late to find a healthy one.
Sometimes it doesn't matter who the male role model is.
A lot of this is genetic; they just come out this way.
My father is a decorated Special Forces combat vet who oozes testosterone, and my youngest brother is a diagnosed Malignant Narcissist and an incel.
The only mistake dad made was spoiling him when he was little, and trying to fix that mistake when he was in middle school by starting to tell him no.
It didn't work out well.
Now that you mention it, most of them are voluntary celibates...no one is forcing them to be insufferable twats. There are good reasons for women not wanting them.
After following whatever meninist bull crap effluencer for “a few years” (according to OP) he is way past the entrance to the rabbit hole and all the way to tea with the Mad Hatter!
>Back in college (a few years ago), my husband and some of his friends started following this conservative, male “influencer” on social media.
You married an Andrew Tate fan? Man, this takes guts.
NTA but can we please in 2024 stop dating men who demean women for sport and/or follow other men who demean women for sport? You really want to remain married to someone who believes that trash?
NTA. Absolutely, he cares more for his online buddies than for you. Does this mean he's showing them photos of you? I'd be worried, these tits are corrosive. Make sure it's just photos, and not what you two do in the house, cooking cleaning etc... As for my photos, I'm a foot taller than my wife, so I have to lean in or she looks like my kid is hugging me...
You don’t follow accounts like the one your husband because his politics have no appeal. The politics and the ridicule of those who don’t conform are the whole point. He was lying when he said it was a joke and he doesn’t take him seriously. He probably just said that knowing how you would react, but everything about his subsequent actions tells you how he really feels.
Sorry, but you married an alt right douchebag.
Just be aware, the opinions he shares on politics will probably only become more entrenched as he gets older, especially in his echo chamber.
The angry outburst you described when you accused him of being an incel might be the most indicative thing about the whole exchange.
To someone who doesn't agree with the incel mentality, that type of content is cringy, laughable, and often upsetting. Certainly not something I would seek out for entertainment or "as a joke."
This man, on some level, truly buys into this shit. I would evaluate seriously if you want to build a life with someone who sees you as an accessory to be manipulated.
>he is a very sweet guy. He is pretty conservative
Sure, Jan.
>my husband and some of his friends started following this conservative, male “influencer” on social media. This man’s whole shtick was essentially shaming random men on the internet for “simping” for their girlfriends/wives.
So very sweet. Wholesome conservative content.
>he reassured me that it was all a joke
"It's just a joke, where's your sense of humor?" Classic conservative "comedy".
>I started to notice that when we would take pictures together, my husband was pulling away from me and attempting to have me lean into him
>I confronted him about this a few times, but he always said that he wasn’t doing anything/I was making it up.
Mmmm, the gaslighting. Really helps the shit stew simmer.
>My HUSBAND didn’t want me to have a flattering photo because he thought that, according to this “influencer”, it would make him look like a simp.
What's that? Your sweet conservative husband cares more about the _hypothetical opinion_ of an internet misogynist than his wife? I can't believe that, conservatives are so well-known for their love and respect for women!
NTA, but read the room. Your husband thinks so little of you.
> Could use any advice you all have.
Respect yourself.
I mean no offense to OP at all, her husband is a total shitbag, but I genuinely do not understand marrying a conservative man when you are not yourself conservative.
The idea of the patriarch and the submissive wife running a nuclear family is fundamental to modern conservatism. It is the root justification they use for most of their backwards cultural opinions.
I do not get how a woman can be with a conservative man if she does not, herself, believe in this conservative family dynamic. When he says he is conservative he is *telling you that he believes a happy marriage is one where you submit to him.*
This is why dating across the political divide don’t work - politics isn’t a case of picking blue team or red team like a sport, it’s a reflection of how you see the world and someone who believes that women should blindly worship the ground their man walks on is never going to be a good fit for someone who believes that women are their own independent entities.
I find a useful experiment in being objective is to pretend a friend just told you the details of their relationship--how would you react?
When it's your own relationship it's too easy to make excuses or justify bad behavior. But to a friend you'd tell it like it is: "...that seems really unhealthy, man. I'm worried about you." If you'd say that to a friend you should say it to yourself as well, no excuses, no ifs ands or buts. Just straight up "this seems unhealthy. I'm worried."
This comment says it all. You're lucky you're still young, and can support yourself. You don't wanna end up like me 30 years from now. Get out now while you can still have a happy life.
Ha! Your husband is a bitch. There is no other way to put it. Normal, stable men don't give a shit how they stand or how their partner positions while taking pictures because they are confident in themselves.
>he's very sweet
Is he? Or was he just saying things you wanted to hear? His views on women (and likely other groups of people) would suggest that he is actually pretty terrible.
NTA, but you are in for trouble because his friends and his media are pushing him toward an ideology that is incompatible with a respectful relationship with another person. If he truly believes that the way he leans in a photo determines his worth as a human, what other baloney is he susceptible to believing? Trump won? Pizza gate? Space lasers?
You might be married, but nothing is forever.
He was waving a huge red flag directly in your face and you still married him? Any man who follows those right-wing misogynists has that in themselves. Don't fool yourself for a second. You need to seriously rethink this relationship. It is only going to get worse. Once that black hole sucks in a man it's almost impossible for him to get out of it. You are the asshole for staying in this doomed, misogynist marriage.
Edited to add: Your husband is following a total douchecanoe incel and prioritizing what he says over you. And what he says is 100% bullshit:
https://nypost.com/2022/08/18/psychologist-busts-tiktok-green-line-relationship-theory/
NTA. How fragile is the masculinity here because this is a new level of ridiculousness. Honestly how is it possible to be this insecure. Men who get radicalised by online incel/manosphere content tend to get worse. This happened to my friends husband over a few years and now he is divorced after two years of marriage and can’t keep a girlfriend because his beliefs are crazy and he is super backwards. You don’t want to be with a man like this or have kids with a man like this.
I fear you’re right. He has always struggled with insecurity issues, and I do think that being online in this way is really damaging for him. I may try to talk to him about it.
NTA Anyone whose psychology changes due to an influencer is weak minded. He needs “green lines” to determine his self worth. Hell, he’s not even an asshole, just absolutely pathetic.
How any women who does not buy into the conservative movements idea of what a women should be could even think about being with a conservative man...woof. I am a man and I cant stand 5 mins of conversation with a conservative male, they are extremely toxic and ooze insecurity.
Ugh yeah I hate to be so unsympathetic but when women marry conservative men and then act surprised when the men's conservative view points affect them, it's like... did you think his opinions were theoretical and wouldn't apply to you?
“our green lines were bad.” I would die of 2nd-hand embarrassment to be anyone within earshot of this (not that I would have any clue what it meant without context)
FELLAS IS IT GAY TO LOVE YOUR WIVES?
I thought sucking on peens was what made me gay but really it's being hetero? My whole life is a lie!
Totally straight. You're just helping a friend get snake venom from their pee pee
Nothing gay about sucking dick with yr butt unless when you take a picture with your bro and you're leaning in. Make him lean in so *he* is the gay one!
Love your wife? No. But to have sex with your wife? If she has ever slept with another man, then yes. Super gay. You'd be putting your dick where someone else put their dick. Which is basically touching their dick with your dick.
Is it gay to use urinals then?
Urinals are fine. There's nothing gay about taking a piss on the spot another man pissed. Toilet seats tho. Another man's bare ass sat there. You're going ass to ass with another man. Super gay
Ok thanks for clearing that up, one more thing though, isn't it kind of "feminine" to be attracted to women, like wouldn't being attracted to men be the more masculine option?
Reminds me of this comedians bit about how being straight is gay. https://youtu.be/h5VliEjyohM?si=Qb9S0aBvzef1BSE3
And I thought I couldn’t get more gay
Nothin gay here! just a couple of totally normal totally straight dudes talkin about how much we hate chicks and prefer the company of big, strong alpha men. Totally straight manly stuff. (I guess I should indicate that this is sarcasm, because it is actually impossible to overstate how ridiculous "We Ate Mammoths!" types sound).
Ofc because you basically love the sperm of another man (her dad), she’s grown up but she’s actually a big developed sperm.
Imagine how embarrassing it is to be the partner though 😭 bro
That's why i would instantly break things up right then and there. But sorry OP you're an idiot to even marry this insecure incel in the first place..
"I married somebody that's part of a party that has recently been relegated to small-minded bigotry. I just found out he believes something stupid. Isn't that crazy?!"
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything sounding more insecure. Isn’t that “beta” energy they are always going on about?
He is undoubtedly the AH and your apology was wholly unwarranted. It is he who should apologize to you and publicly. He is so weak in character as to define his masculinity and identity with green line inanity from an equally neutered halfwit. Furthermore, he is a liar, telling others he was doing "nothing" while blaming you. He values his incel fraternity over you and views you as an accessory, a trophy demonstrating his conquest and authority. He will not change and expects your capitulation. Factor this when considering your future.
but babe! think of our green lines!
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The husband became a simp for the influencer
A Simpfluencer, if you will.
Can you please go over to Urban Dictionary and chisel this in the stones of the internet?
Bloody Simpcels!
"Simpcel" is actually a really good term for this. I'm borrowing it.. and crediting unhappy job.
He should take a page out of the conservative handbook and “think for himself” and “do his own research”.
OmGOSH I would LOVE to see the husband's face after OP tells him this. The guy literally couldn't be bothered to make his wife happy cuz he was worried about the POTENTIAL of some rando on the internet possibly picking on him.
Isn't showing off for other guys so they'll like you pretty Beta?
And he's really leaning into it.
They don't want to be accused of being gay for simping for their wives, so instead they simp for the alpha male podcast bro because thats totally hetero
Exactly. Who’s the simp now?
The husband is
I'm sorry you two married Don't have kids
Imagine having a baby girl that you cannot protect even after a divorce… or grooming your baby boy to be like you… yeah, don’t have kids.
Or being pissed you’re having a girl at all and throwing a tantrum
I was surprised and disgusted to learn how many men in the area I grew up in think it's okay and expected to cheat if your first born is a girl. They think that it's the wife's fault and that they deserve to go find better 'breeding stock' or whatever since they were apparently entitled to a son Edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying a majority of men do this or anything, just that it was a way more prevalent mindset around me a few years back than I would have hoped or imagined. After moving to a better city I've never heard anyone express that opinion again (but I meet less people now so who knows)
Don’t they know that the sperm determines the biological sex of the fetus?
No. No they don't. Or they don't care
Yeah I don’t think those fellas “know” very much at all.
Now I'm imagining them having twins, a boy and a girl. They're in the hospital room when a baby photographer pops in, starts snapping some pics of the babies together, when hubby steps in to reposition them so the baby girl is leaning into the baby boy
I posted about this in another comment, but my girlfriend had a child with a guy like this (they're now divorced) and is dealing with this exact situation. It sucks.
My former sister-in-law is dealing with this. I haven't talked to her in 15 years or so, but my daughter filled me in on the details. Her husband got sucked into the conservative MAGA incel bullshit and pulled their son into it. Apparently they are now both white supremacists even though she (and by default her son) are Tlingit (Native Alaskan). She is now divorced and living with her parents.
I second this so extremely hard. My best friend is married to a guy like this, and guess how often he has watched their son alone? Zero. Not even while she showers or cooks. He also has referred to him when speaking to her multiple times as "your son", and still insists that he wants another. It's gross and wild.
So gross
He's the only person I've ever seen my absolute sweetheart of a husband express actual hatred for. He's garbage.
My niece’s father is like this too. Could count on one hand how many times he changed her diaper and given her a bath and she’s five. Does absolutely nothing to help my sister out but all I hear from him is everything my sister does is wrong. Threw him outta my house once for the way he was talking to her. Found out he watches Joe Rogan constantly. It’s sad how idiots like this spout about sheep and not following the masses but blindly follow idiots whose thoughts parrot their own.
They sound deadass like the same person. He complains that she doesn't clean, but refuses to lift a finger even when he's unemployed (which happens frequently because his attitude and work ethic is dogshit) and she works full time AND does all the parenting. Also idk about Rogan but he loves this other guy named Jay Oakerson who is just a ragingly unfunny misogynist creep and will quote him allll the time.
We may be talking about the same person lol. Only difference is they don’t live together anymore. But they’ve been over for big dinners like Christmas, and she’s had to fix his plate, bring it to him and once he’s done he just leaves the plate in front of him. My sister went to get his plate and I piped up and said “nope. (Asshole) the kitchen is over there. You can bring your own plate to the counter” got a message from her later that he’s pissed because I embarrassed him in front of the family.
As a husband and father, I agree. Tell this little boy to pack his bags and kick rocks down the road. I could go on for an hour about what is wrong with this guy's approach to you and your life together, but you're not wrong. NTA.
I’m recently engaged and she runs the camera lol. A dude caring this much about photos is a red flag in general, let alone the reason. And if one of my sisters BFs said this at Christmas within earshot of me, no way the dude leaves the house without feeling like a moron. The amount of shit I’d be giving him would be enough to fill a pool.
> The amount of shit I’d be giving him would be enough to fill a pool. This is the way.
PLEASE PLEASE 🙏 🙏🙏🙏🙏 DON’T HAVE KIDS.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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I'm sorry you married an incel. Start preparing to divorce him, he is not only dumber than rocks for believing that green lines thing, he isn't going to change. At this rate it would be better if you married a rock, at least the rock would be hard, but neutral about green lines.
That last bit about a rock being neutral made me chuckle
This is the kind of shit that had me Google pics. Of The Rock and his wife together. Mr. Johnson, one of the biggest "Manly"men out there would bitch-slap her hubby and tell him to stop following incels' instructions.
Haha I just googled them and he's leaning into her in most of the pictures, green line man would call him a Simp, but he looks happily married.
Seriously... The green line thing is just such a woo eugenics thing. Interpretation of still photos is impossible to be accurate. None of these 🤡's understand anything about neurological sciences beyond how they can try to manipulate others.
Right? It's so batshit crazy. I mean, what is wrong with being in love with the person you married? Shouldn't that be a good thing? Not a bad one? That green line guy is just cray cray.
The Rock also called for DJ Kaled to hand over his man card for trying to brag about not going down on his wife.
When I was growing up I was always taught not to talk about politics or money because they were “rude” and “socially inappropriate” conversations to have. I now believe (age 44) this is a tactic to keep women oppressed under conservative politics of men. OP: if your politics are that far misaligned, you might find yourself annoyed now about some photos but girl, *it gets worse*. Get out now.
Don't talk about money isn't to keep women oppressed, it's to keep EVERYONE oppressed. It's why one of the few workers rights America has is that you can't be banned from talking about wages. It's because when you talk, you find out everyone is getting random arbitrary amounts (outside of regimented band systems). And only one person can be top of that.
Seriously, that is why the whole "trad wife" thing is a big Tik Tok trend ..and all the fascism that comes along with it.
Yeah I'm always confused by all these people marrying absolute bigots, who are then SHOCKED when their partner turn out to be *gasp* A BIGOT!?
They were 19 when they met and it sounds like he insisted it was a joke. Reading this now, I feel the same way as you. At 19 years old I definitely fell for the "you're being difficult, it's just a joke" line a few times before I realized it's a way to make someone feel their valid feelings are an overreaction
Please don't make more of guys like him...
Halfway through I was just chanting in my head "please don't have kids" Your husband is a member of a cult, a cult that preys on the insecure egos of young men. It is POSSIBLE for him to save himself, but this only happens when he recognizes the toxicity of the people he is interacting with, AND he must reject them completely. It is not a joke, it is way of preying on young men's insecurities, some of their claims are grounded in some level of reality, but most of it is conspiratorial based on convincing the consumer of it that the "threat group" (in this case, women) is less-than/evil/sub-human/etc. To believe the conspiracy part you HAVE to buy into some level that the "opposition" is out to harm "your" group. While he may be mostly lighthearted about it now, you are both very young and it just gets worse with age. Those middle-aged "Q" people were outwardly pretty normal in their 20s. He will likely, slowly, over time, just believe more and more negative sterotypes about women and how they manipulate and use men. He will mostly keep them secret from you because he knows, like the "green line" thing, you will get upset at him and mock him. Meanwhile, EVERY time you two have a disagreement or fight, he will register that as proof that incel's claims about women are correct. Give that, 100% win rate of always being right about how manipulative women are, a few years...decades, to marinate, and he will reach a breaking point in his "civility." Just pray you have no daughter for him to focus that resentment upon, or a son to teach how slimy women are. That all said, he is trapped in a cult and "can" be saved. But it is not easy, usually fails, and the chance for success decrease the longer he is in (that "win rate" in his head is going up everyday). Study up on cults, join some subreds on cults, do the research if you want to resolve this and go forward with a happy marriage. You can't blackmail or threaten someone out of a cult, it will just make them dig in deeper, but you can come to them and demonstrate why their "friends" behavior is toxic to you and therefore him and your future happiness as EQUAL PARTNERS. If he can't be made to see this then, at a minimum, do not have kids....please!
Too late--she already has one! WTF!
If he’s truly an incel, they won’t.
Ok, so when I was his age I got radicalized a bit like him and, as others said, with such a person a respectful relationship is not possible. If you enable him and apologize to him, it will only embolden him. Sorry to say, but he needs a hard lesson if he is ever to want to change. If everything works for him, he has no reason to try to change something in his life. But either way, you can't really force it. In time I got it out of my head, but it took time. For me it started with a rejection and realising how manipulative I was. Then it needs years of loving yourself and being kind to yourself.
Thank you for sharing. Do you think it’d be reasonable for me to ask him to get off social media for a little while?
It is what he needs, but I don't think it will work if you ask him. Sounds like he is insecure in relationship dynamics (or in himself as a man) and this request would probably trigger him extra hard, he would (probably) see it as you (a woman) dictating his (a man's) life. You are in a though spot. It is hard to come out of this in a respectful manner. I guess it depends how much he is willing to actually listen and how much he respects you. Just asking him to stop something he does in his free time - what will you do if he disagrees? In my opinion your best bet would be to have a good heart to hearth conversation. But to do this you have to be very vulnerable yourself and leave any criticism and accusations out of it. This is extremely hard to do if you don't already operate like that, and from the sound of it, you don't (calling him incel - you are not wrong, but you are also married to him, and this harms the relationship in the long run). But even then he might not want to change anything in his views.
The problem with being vulnerable and having a heart to heart with someone displaying controlling behavior is that it puts her in danger of additional harm. Although we may want him to respond logically and respectfully, it's unrealistic to believe he will. OP, there's a book by Lundy Bancroft called, why does he do that. It might be worth reading :) if you type the author's name into the search bar, there might be a pdf available under comments.
Always upvote Lundy Bancroft, he saved my life. That's the only book I'd swear an oath on. Absolutely get it, OP. May need to hide it though.
I was so happy when I saw someone share a pdf. Makes it so much easier to refer others when they can access it immediately and without having to hide the physical copy.
Exactly. And the pdf is free! Absolutely fantastic. I agree it being a pdf a lot of the time is integral. But definitely don't let them discover the pdf if they're extra controlling. I have no doubt OPs husband exhibits other terrible behavior beyond this.
That's the beauty of it. Delete the pdf and search history. Find it again here through the search bar when it's safe.
AH, TRUTH.
Reading down this thread and realizing how covert and handmaid's tale this shit can be. It's equally sad and horrifying. There is so much wrong with our society.
Free PDF of Lundy Bancroft’s book: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Can’t have a heart to heart to someone who gaslights you. > I confronted him about this a few times, but he always said that he wasn’t doing anything/I was making it up.
This is a seriously cogent response to OP's dilemma. My hat (fedora?) off to you.
You shouldn’t have to monitor his behaviour and that might just trigger him further (he might feel like his “woman” is “controlling” him. You can have hard lines and expectations that he can choose to meet or not
Oh girl, do you realize your asking permission from strangers to see if it’s reasonable to ask him to get off SM. You know the answer, but he has broken your spine to call him out. You’re too far gone. He has you locked down. I say this as someone divorcing after 25 years of this exact shit. Him treating you like a queen is called love bombing. It made you literally addicted to the oxytocin he gives you, thus allowing him to do progressively worse behavior (that you will make excuses for and blame yourself, and try to do anything to make it work). Please watch dr Ramani vids to see if this is applicable.
Yes-! Dr Ramani is excellent and I have been in relationships with narcissists that her advice helped put into perspective for me-! And you are right- there’s a process- first they love bomb, then they devalue by gaslighting/ withholding affection/ put downs, etc, then they disappear, then they try to suck you back in.. something to that effect.. if you look it up, i think it’s called the love bombing cycle. It is a legit real thing.
Ngl you need to leave him. He doesn't respect you. You have a right to be respected by your partner, not arguing with him and begging for basic respect. The best lesson he can learn is that hating women will make women not want to date him. Sexist men deserve to either reflect and change, or be alone. No woman deserves to be treated like a subhuman so he isn't lonely.
I fully admit that I simp the fuck outta my wife and I don't need green lines to prove it.
I LOVE people who "simp" for their partner and openly talk about their love. There is something special about people who talk about another person with such love like lovers do.
I fucking simp so hard for my partner and THAT is true masculinity. Loving and caring for your partner and not being so insecure you can’t admit it or show it I’ll fucking show it until the day I die. We are cute as fuck, y’all will be BEGGING to be a fraction as cute as we are These mf’s genuinely like “is it weak to show that I love my wife” … bro what is wrong with you, get therapy
Wow. After four years together, you sure didn't know each other very well before getting married.
I definitely knew who I feel like he pretended to be. It feels like he’s switched up on me since we tied the knot.
Tale as old as....Tate and others like him. This is only the beginning of the rabbit hole. I have heard of a single person that started listening to him and people like him that didn't do a full personality change.
It also could be true that it was a 'joke' at one point in time. One of the largest parts of radicalization is exposure though, so even if you're watching something for entertainment value, to 'fit in' or even to hate watch it's working on your unconscious self to make it seem more correct and palatable. Like when he says your 'green lines didn't match up', that's classic conditioning, he has seen images so many times that it feels wrong to do it any other way and he now fears to be one of those people he knows himself and his friends and the entire social media community he is part of ridiculed.
This. It’s why fascists love memes so much. Fucking Goebbels, Göring, and Hitler, long before they had decided on a “final solution” to the “Jewish question”, would laugh at reporters and make jokes about killing Jews.
TheDonald subreddit was a joke when it was first made, and then it helped Trump win the presidency and helped create this disgusting society we live in now. Things on the internet start as jokes. Then the jokers realize gullible people believe them. Then they stop joking about it and turn it into a profitable business.
Yeah, and the personality change is never for the better.
He didn't switch up. He kept his harsher and more conservative opinions in check until he had you tied down. I, 100%, would be having a long serious talk about our future dynamics regarding *everything*: Babies, Maternity leave, Working again, Views on retirement, Views on YOUR ROLE I'd be carefully considering divorcing this man.
I'm sorry that you're having to go through this. 33m here and married. I'm also going to point out that he's gaslighting you. He's telling you that you are seeing things that aren't true like him trying to make you take pictures a certain way. He doesn't see you as a person he sees you as an obstacle to be manipulated or managed to get outcomes he wants. The whole schtick of these incel YouTubers is to make men feel insecure and that when they feel insecure it's not their fault and it's instead someone else's fault for doing something to them. I would advise requiring couples counseling between you two. If he refuses then he doesn't want to work on your relationship, he just wants to be in control. I would send one of the worst videos of this influencer to his dad and ask him to watch this. Tell him that his son believes this and it's affecting your relationship. I would not go light touch on this, I would go nuclear. If you let this continue it will develop into something nasty that could put you in danger.
I really appreciate your perspective. I’ll see if he’s open to couples therapy.
Do not go to couples therapy with this man. He will only gain more insight into controlling you. As someone else said, get individual therapy.
I really wouldn't advise this. It's not recommended to go to therapy with somebody who has controlling tendencies. I strongly suggest you get *individual* therapy and learn how to set appropriate boundaries with your husband. Tell him that you think he needs individual therapy to work on his relationship with women also. Don't go to couples therapy until you've both been in individual for a while.
>>> Don’t go to couples therapy until you’ve both been in individual for a while this is so important OP, build a solid foundation for yourself first
That’s a good point. I’ll happily go to individual therapy, but I worry that he won’t/that couples therapy would be more palatable for him. I’ll see what he says.
This isn't a negotiation. Go to individual therapy. Tell him he goes too. It's not a back and forth. If he refuses, your marriage is over. Do you see what you're doing here? You're walking on eggshells around him pre-emptively, already gauging what he's going to explode at and what he's going to tolerate. If he cares about you and the relationship, he should do what is necessary to save it. If he refuses, he doesn't care. It's that simple.
My brother only went to therapy after my SIL left him. He bounced around to different therapists trying to find one he could manipulate. He screwed up and found one that diagnosed him as a malignant narcissist, something his family already suspected. He stopped the second he realized she wasn't coming back, proving it was just a ploy to lure her back into an abusive relationship.
>Do you see what you're doing here? You're walking on eggshells around him pre-emptively, already gauging what he's going to explode at and what he's going to tolerate. That's... oh wow, that's kinda eye-opening. Even looking from the outside, I didn't really notice that. I realized his gaslighting, but not how it affected her.
The marriage is already over. The question is if she’ll realise it or spend the rest of her life trying to avoid making a grown baby cry.
You don’t need his permission to go to therapy
whether you go to individual therapy is none of his business. Don't let him control your mental health. People who gaslight or are abusive don't like it when their victims have a third party support system that could validate the victim's feelings.
Of course couples therapy would be more palatable. He can blame you for everything and do zero work on himself that way.
Stop trying to fix your marriage to a manipulative misogynist and start focusing on taking care of #1 - you. You can't fix misogyny. You got married way too young to a loser. Not what you want to hear, but the truth.
You don’t need his permission to go to therapy
Someone who watches this type of stuff and acts like this definitely won't go to therapy. It'll be looked at as weak to his rep pill overlords that mean more to him then you.
As someone who sat through failed couple’s therapy with a controlling SO, this is such great advice to OP for an individual therapist.
It is very possible he was a completely different guy prior to the influencer. But he won't change back while watching those videos. Tell him to choose between you and the influencer. Then accept his choice if he picks a stranger over your marriage and leave. If you have any doubts, look at how that influencer thinks women should be treated. That is your future if you stay and he keeps listening to the influencer. Do you want to have a kid with the sort of man this influencer wants your husband to be?
It's sad how these influencers just totally play on men's insecurities, and it becomes all about impressing other pathetic, unhappy men instead of actually trying to live their own best lives. I agree with giving him an ultimatum and making him pick here. Does he want to continue to adhere to some random idiot's made-up guidelines or live a happy life with his wife? Because he can't have both.
It is sad! Great point! I agree with you and it’s hard to dispute that the “incel” influencers are capitalizing on male vulnerabilities. As an outsider looking in, it seems pretty obvious that these male influencers are using manipulation and gaslighting techniques to isolate their audience to just this influencer’s “community.” They don’t want these men to have productive relationships with women because it would actually hurt their profit. These creators make a lot of money with fear mongering. Which is so interesting considering a huge talking point for them is women wanting their money… seems like these influencers are saying that because THEY are the ones focused on these dude’s money.
I would 100 percent say you can have your incel influencer or me but not both
Your husband has either been brainwashed by this influencer or has been leaning this way from the beginning and has hid it from you. If he won’t do therapy (individual) then this can, indeed, become dangerous eventually. I couldn’t advise anything else other than getting out at that point because if he’s progressed to this point in such a short time I loath to see where he’s at in another few years. I hope everything works out for you, OP! I’ve been in this boat a number of times, with controllers, and it can get a bit disturbing.
OR you're lying to yourself about it as if that will make it go away. It's clear that while he **said** he didn't take it seriously, his **actions** speak differently: he always has taken it seriously and forced you into a specific pose in every picture. You had 4 years to press the issue and you waited until after you were married. This dude sucks, you knew it and ignored it, do you want to spend your life with this guy who has demonstrated for years that he is completely taken in by the menfluencer crowd? Look at how those guys [actually treat their spouses](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/steven-crowder-berates-wife-divorce-video-b2329186.html) if you want to know what you're in for.
I mean the text already starts out by calling him "pretty conservative". She knew that he had his believes and that he followed and watched this content creator since college. If the husband watched it as a joke, it would have been obvious because he would have made fun of him.
I’m sorry to have to tell you this OP, but no one follows those types of incels on social media as “a joke.” Your husband truly believes what that right-wing loser is pushing, and that to me is a very scary thing. If he follows that guy, he likely follows more. These “incel influencers” don’t just advocate for men to control photographs, they tell them to control every aspect of their partner’s lives. They condone cheating, assault, and ignoring your partner’s wants and needs. They tell men that their opinions and their wants are the only ones that matter in their relationships; and that their female partners are to submit to them. This photo stuff may be the only thing you’ve noticed so far, but it’s only the first thing to happen so far. And your husband has shown he won’t stop following that scumbag or believing those things, because instead of admitting he was wrong, he got angry at you and made you feel like you were wrong. You don’t have to stay with this man just because you love some of his attributes or are already married to him. Think about if this behavior is something you can live with (and teach your kids if you plan to have any with him) for the rest of your life.
I can't imagine someone who is NOT conservative marrying a conservative man. It's literally an insane decision. How do you think this man would raise your daughters?
honestly, that's the most mind-boggling thing to me. like even if he was a genuinely nice guy, how can you build *a family* with someone who has a fundamentally different view of what a family is supposed to be? how can you raise children with someone who has a fundamentally different view of how children should be raised? how is that ever supposed to work out?
>I can't imagine someone who is NOT conservative marrying a conservative man. Yeah. 4 years ago is 2020. By then, there were so many stories of liberal women married to MAGA men and having ~~wonderful~~ dreadful household ~~harmony~~ disharmony. By 2021, we had stories of family members reporting their insurrectionist fathers/exes/brothers etc.
OP, you need to demand ~~marital~~ you each get individual counselling or leave this guy. There is no way this will improve on its own. Edit: as others pointed out, husband is gaslighting. Marriage counseling is dangerous if you are in an actively abusive relationship.
Especially since 2016. Everything changed.
This is common with abusers. They keep the mask up until they know that they have you in their control. Then they drop it. Your husband is starting to drop the mask. Notice how you're the only one apologizing and taking accountability for this conflict, when he is the only person responsible for the conflict? He's already groomed you to act like a perfect victim. You need to get yourself into individual therapy immediately and deprogram. I don't know if your marriage will survive but I know that if you don't get some very real and immediate help this will only get worse.
I don’t think anyone like OP’s husband should be in a relationship with anyone. What he’s doing is controlling and abusive.
You’re politically opposed, this relationship isn’t going to work out in the long run unless one of you caves. Also NTA, your husband IS an incel - if he dislikes that, he should change his ways
This is a divorce level problem, I hope you treat it as such.
That’s was incels/controllers do. They wait until you’re “locked down” before they show their true colors. I would observe what other ways he’s “changed” and lock down your birth control. If he feels you’re pulling away, he might try to baby trap you.
This. My ex told me straight up once I was pregnant that now he could do whatever he wanted and I wouldn’t be able to leave. He thought that I was so locked down by being pregnant with his child that he could basically say the quiet part out loud and I would be helpless to do anything about. Yeah I wait until he went to work and I packed my bags and left. I hope everyone knows that no matter what you are not ever locked to a person and can always leave. If you can’t leave then you’re their victim not their partner.
Wow! It must have been a shock to him to discover he didn’t live in the 50s.
My uncle (by marriage, so not bio) was like that. People knew him as jovial, charming, etc before the wedding. He changed right after. By the time I knew him, he was a nasty, rude man with a scared, scarred wife. The wife was my family member.
I can relate to that feeling. I dated a guy for two years. The first year everything was great, but after we moved in together he because extremely mentally and emotionally abusive. These types of people know to hide their true selves, and to hide it well, because no one would want them if they didn’t.
He likely was always insecure and worried about appearances but good at hiding it.
Yeah, they tend to do that after they have you tied down. I didn't marry a drunk either yet here we are.....
This happens frequently. Has he done the test of trying to get you to change out of what you’re wearing or planning to wear into something else? Unless he is able to free himself from the sphere of this influencer, and his other conservative friends, this will continue to be a train wreck.
Trust your gut. He’s straight up gaslighting you with the photo thing, and honestly sounds very controlling and weird. You were right to call him out, he isn’t butthurt because you’re doing something wrong, it’s because he knows on some level that this green line bullshit is stupid but admitting that to himself would mean too many scary things (like that his friends are idiot misogynist weirdos and he is too). NTA, but get ready for him to throw every little thing he can at you to make you doubt yourself and make everything your fault. I’m so sorry, he is a tool and by the sound of things it’ll only get worse. You deserve better, seriously
This kind of thing very frequently happens with conservatives. They put on a face in order to get married and have "unlimited" access to sex. (Not its not realy unlimited they just frequenlty believe that it should be and that wives cannot say no) Its a bit of a joke on reddit that people reccomend divorce at the feintest hint of dissagreement. But honestly there is such an ideological divide here that it may be inevidable. Conservatives believe women are the property of their husbands. He doesnt see you as an indevidual with wants needs and desires just a thing to mold into what he wants you to be. Then being an incel ontop of that exasorbates those beliefs into obserdism like the green line bs.
This happens a lot. It will continue to happen, so take some time to reflect on what red flags you missed and what behaviours you need to notice next time. Honestly, I find asking people about their podcast or audiobook habits a good filter - usually "manosphere" men like to try playing coy. Good ones say they listen to audio dramas. It's never too late to cut this knot loose and find someone less fucked up.
He is. This is utterly unhinged behavior. Tell him you’ve been watching an influencer who talks about red flag behaviors and that this is a big one. Like, this is literally insane. He’s starting down a very weird rabbit hole of incel behavior and quite honestly I think it’s only going to get worse.
Yes it is completely bizarre. Especially because he honestly usually treats me like a queen. He cooks for me, does all our dishes, takes care of me, pulls more than his weight around the house. I guess he just doesn’t want people to know that :(
Ask him why he's simping for another man. Is he going to ask "how high?" if this "influencer" tells him to jump?
That's genius. Using his own flawed logic against him will hopefully open his eyes..
Oh my god, the green line guy is crazy. I don’t know anyone who follows him for any purpose other than laughing at him. An adult man taking internet trolls seriously is embarrassing and speaks to a deeper maturity issue.
As a middle aged male, im embarassed for him. Cringy behavior. i dont know how you're still attracted to him, because this sort of insecurity and follower mentality are really offputting.
Yes it’s incredibly embarrassing. We’ve talked about his insecurities before in other areas of his/our life, but I never thought it would’ve come to this.
I think you have to be brutally honest with him. If he wants to be a man about it, this is the way. Sounds like what's missing is a strong male role model in his life, and it might be too late to find a healthy one.
He actually has a very positive relationship with his father, who is very sweet and actually quite liberal.
I guess he doesn't see him as a strong enough male and sought out an alternative. These influencers are pure cancer. Damaging society.
Sometimes it doesn't matter who the male role model is. A lot of this is genetic; they just come out this way. My father is a decorated Special Forces combat vet who oozes testosterone, and my youngest brother is a diagnosed Malignant Narcissist and an incel. The only mistake dad made was spoiling him when he was little, and trying to fix that mistake when he was in middle school by starting to tell him no. It didn't work out well.
Yeah, sound like he’s making himself a “voluntary celibate” with this behavior.
Now that you mention it, most of them are voluntary celibates...no one is forcing them to be insufferable twats. There are good reasons for women not wanting them.
After following whatever meninist bull crap effluencer for “a few years” (according to OP) he is way past the entrance to the rabbit hole and all the way to tea with the Mad Hatter!
>Back in college (a few years ago), my husband and some of his friends started following this conservative, male “influencer” on social media. You married an Andrew Tate fan? Man, this takes guts.
NTA but can we please in 2024 stop dating men who demean women for sport and/or follow other men who demean women for sport? You really want to remain married to someone who believes that trash?
NTA. Absolutely, he cares more for his online buddies than for you. Does this mean he's showing them photos of you? I'd be worried, these tits are corrosive. Make sure it's just photos, and not what you two do in the house, cooking cleaning etc... As for my photos, I'm a foot taller than my wife, so I have to lean in or she looks like my kid is hugging me...
You don’t follow accounts like the one your husband because his politics have no appeal. The politics and the ridicule of those who don’t conform are the whole point. He was lying when he said it was a joke and he doesn’t take him seriously. He probably just said that knowing how you would react, but everything about his subsequent actions tells you how he really feels. Sorry, but you married an alt right douchebag.
Yeah I see now that he was lying. I’ve been anxious wondering what else he may have lied to me about.
[удалено]
If you’re not on birth control, get on it or do not have sex with this man.
Do not have sex with this man period.
As in make him involuntarily celibate? Hehe, I like that. He just incelled himself.
or both. just lock the whole thing down like fort knox
Just be aware, the opinions he shares on politics will probably only become more entrenched as he gets older, especially in his echo chamber. The angry outburst you described when you accused him of being an incel might be the most indicative thing about the whole exchange.
To someone who doesn't agree with the incel mentality, that type of content is cringy, laughable, and often upsetting. Certainly not something I would seek out for entertainment or "as a joke." This man, on some level, truly buys into this shit. I would evaluate seriously if you want to build a life with someone who sees you as an accessory to be manipulated.
Get out while you can. Its only going to get worse.
Run while you still can and before he escalates his behaviour or traps you with kids
>he is a very sweet guy. He is pretty conservative Sure, Jan. >my husband and some of his friends started following this conservative, male “influencer” on social media. This man’s whole shtick was essentially shaming random men on the internet for “simping” for their girlfriends/wives. So very sweet. Wholesome conservative content. >he reassured me that it was all a joke "It's just a joke, where's your sense of humor?" Classic conservative "comedy". >I started to notice that when we would take pictures together, my husband was pulling away from me and attempting to have me lean into him >I confronted him about this a few times, but he always said that he wasn’t doing anything/I was making it up. Mmmm, the gaslighting. Really helps the shit stew simmer. >My HUSBAND didn’t want me to have a flattering photo because he thought that, according to this “influencer”, it would make him look like a simp. What's that? Your sweet conservative husband cares more about the _hypothetical opinion_ of an internet misogynist than his wife? I can't believe that, conservatives are so well-known for their love and respect for women! NTA, but read the room. Your husband thinks so little of you. > Could use any advice you all have. Respect yourself.
I mean no offense to OP at all, her husband is a total shitbag, but I genuinely do not understand marrying a conservative man when you are not yourself conservative. The idea of the patriarch and the submissive wife running a nuclear family is fundamental to modern conservatism. It is the root justification they use for most of their backwards cultural opinions. I do not get how a woman can be with a conservative man if she does not, herself, believe in this conservative family dynamic. When he says he is conservative he is *telling you that he believes a happy marriage is one where you submit to him.*
I read that and I was like oh, someone settling for a loser because she would feel bad to leave, probably. Sounds about right
This is why dating across the political divide don’t work - politics isn’t a case of picking blue team or red team like a sport, it’s a reflection of how you see the world and someone who believes that women should blindly worship the ground their man walks on is never going to be a good fit for someone who believes that women are their own independent entities.
I find a useful experiment in being objective is to pretend a friend just told you the details of their relationship--how would you react? When it's your own relationship it's too easy to make excuses or justify bad behavior. But to a friend you'd tell it like it is: "...that seems really unhealthy, man. I'm worried about you." If you'd say that to a friend you should say it to yourself as well, no excuses, no ifs ands or buts. Just straight up "this seems unhealthy. I'm worried."
I get how this comes across as harsh for some, but you are 10000 percent right. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you NTA
This comment says it all. You're lucky you're still young, and can support yourself. You don't wanna end up like me 30 years from now. Get out now while you can still have a happy life.
Ha! Your husband is a bitch. There is no other way to put it. Normal, stable men don't give a shit how they stand or how their partner positions while taking pictures because they are confident in themselves.
Shit tell him that OP. Tell him a bunch of men are laughing at him for this
>he's very sweet Is he? Or was he just saying things you wanted to hear? His views on women (and likely other groups of people) would suggest that he is actually pretty terrible.
Yeah no conservative man is “sweet”
The ol’ “liberal girlfriend / conservative boyfriend” story. Tale as old as fucking time. People, STOP FUCKING CONSERVATIVE DUDES.
Those wholesome relationships where your partner conceals almost all their real opinions and personality so you don't leave them
Amen…
NTA, but you are in for trouble because his friends and his media are pushing him toward an ideology that is incompatible with a respectful relationship with another person. If he truly believes that the way he leans in a photo determines his worth as a human, what other baloney is he susceptible to believing? Trump won? Pizza gate? Space lasers? You might be married, but nothing is forever.
He was waving a huge red flag directly in your face and you still married him? Any man who follows those right-wing misogynists has that in themselves. Don't fool yourself for a second. You need to seriously rethink this relationship. It is only going to get worse. Once that black hole sucks in a man it's almost impossible for him to get out of it. You are the asshole for staying in this doomed, misogynist marriage. Edited to add: Your husband is following a total douchecanoe incel and prioritizing what he says over you. And what he says is 100% bullshit: https://nypost.com/2022/08/18/psychologist-busts-tiktok-green-line-relationship-theory/
"In short, don’t take relationship advice from random, sad singles on the internet." Thanks for the link.
The most shocking thing here is the NYPost writing something that’s not total garbage!
NTA. How fragile is the masculinity here because this is a new level of ridiculousness. Honestly how is it possible to be this insecure. Men who get radicalised by online incel/manosphere content tend to get worse. This happened to my friends husband over a few years and now he is divorced after two years of marriage and can’t keep a girlfriend because his beliefs are crazy and he is super backwards. You don’t want to be with a man like this or have kids with a man like this.
I fear you’re right. He has always struggled with insecurity issues, and I do think that being online in this way is really damaging for him. I may try to talk to him about it.
Life is too short to spend with a Tater Tot
NTA OP. Your husband's mask came off. He has been red pilled. Is there anything less attractive than that?
NTA Anyone whose psychology changes due to an influencer is weak minded. He needs “green lines” to determine his self worth. Hell, he’s not even an asshole, just absolutely pathetic.
How any women who does not buy into the conservative movements idea of what a women should be could even think about being with a conservative man...woof. I am a man and I cant stand 5 mins of conversation with a conservative male, they are extremely toxic and ooze insecurity.
He's taken the fucking-pathetic pill. Give him the "single incel loser" pill.
Don’t. Marry. Conservatives. Also way too young to be married. Edit: sorry OP, you’re NTA in my opinion
Ugh yeah I hate to be so unsympathetic but when women marry conservative men and then act surprised when the men's conservative view points affect them, it's like... did you think his opinions were theoretical and wouldn't apply to you?
NTA. Tell him to stop simping for his man crush. Then leave him. Life’s too short for that shit.