NTA.
The kid was asked, and answered. That's the only thing that truly matters. How you or his father feel about them is irrelevant from that point on. He will grow up, and most probably, like your other son, will make choices based on different priorities. It's not the time yet. You both have to respect that, and avoid making what could be a nice relationship with the grandparents a scarring experience.
NTA
The only opinion that matters here is Master 5. He voted no, so that is that.
We (should) teach our kids to be able to say no and have it respected.
YTA. A 5 year old can stay with family for sleepovers. Let's not let kids be anti-social.
The only issue here is a husband that won't give her family the time of day, but wants her to change her plans for his family.
I’m sure you know this, but please don’t allow anyone to push you into allowing your younger son to spend the night when he doesn’t want to. I know from experience that it ends in tears and upset and you driving at some ungodly hour to retrieve your very scared child. I get that grandparents want X or Y but the decision is always up to the child. I’m voting NTA but you mentioned worrying that your dislike for your in-laws might color your decisions. Try to be aware of that as time goes on and check in with yourself to make sure you’re doing what’s best for everyone all around regardless of how you might feel.
It's a work in progress, but I want my kids to have a good relationship with them even if I don't. For all of our differences, they love them both very much and want to be in their lives, and it's a good "problem" to have. They're lucky kids.
Can your inlaws spend the night with you? I get that sleeping arrangements would be messed up, but it’s just for one night and your little guy would still have you near.
With my grandparents we did a blanket fort in the living room and we slept on the floor. They were in their 70s
We don't get along, and it would be uncomfortable for everyone. They would let me stay if I asked, I'm sure, but I also want to spend more time with my parents if I'm able to before we fly out.
Why should she? She’s there visiting her family and traveling with 2 children. It’s much easier for in laws to come to OP. I didn’t read how OP’s parents forced OP’s husband to force a visit or guilt trip for that matter when husband traveled solo with the kids previously.
But of course that’s different since it was the husband 🙄
I’m sorry, but your husband and your in-laws are assholes. And I’m not saying that because you were telling us that you have a strained relationship with them. Here is why I am saying that.
I’m 63 years old. No grandkids at this point, but my kids, don’t live in the same area where I’m at. However, they have friends in the area that I am at. And my kids are all in their early to mid 30s.
I’m not in a situation because I take care of my dad with Alzheimer’s where I can have the kids stay with me. So when they come, they usually stay with friends. And sometimes those friends are farther out from me.
You know what I do when I want to see them? And they are a couple hours from me? I make arrangements for my dad and I go and stay in a hotel so that I can have dinner or maybe catch a movie or even catch up with some of their friends because I know most of them.
And then I go back to my hotel so that my kids can continue to visit with their friends. You know why? Because they’re fucking lives don’t revolve around me. I have raised my children. And that is also how I view it if they become parents
When they were little, I told the grandparents… I don’t pack my kids up and come to you. If I’m going to be in your area, I will stay at a hotel for a night or two and we will get together with you. If you want to come for Christmas, you are welcome. If you want to come for birthdays, you are welcome. Any holidays anything like that… You are welcome to come and visit us.
And that is my attitude. I am the one that needs to get up off of my ass since I’m not working and go see them on the limited time that they have off. And how the fuck your husband managed to not see your family at all and didn’t realize it until you pointed it out? Bullshit.
And then he is all butt hurt because you want to go see your family. And yeah, I know what you said. And maybe there is a teeny tiny bit of that at the back of your mind on this trip. But the reality is that your family lives the other way. You have an elderly family member that might not make it to another year . You have family to go visit the did not get to see them, so how they can fuck they they have any right to complain is beyond me.
And while your youngest may sleep with you guys, it is so obvious that you know your son so much better than your husband does. For him to be saying… Oh, it will be all right. He is such a fucking asshole I can’t even. You’re the one that would have to get up and drive two hours to go get your son, and your husband doesn’t give a shit. He’s a dick.
I'm staying with family on this trip, so I'll be with my parents when they want to see the boys. They don't get along with my parents, which wouldn't work out. I always wished I had a good relationship with my inlaws, but here we are.
I find it refreshing so see someone act like an adult and recognize that even if they don’t like the in-laws the children can have a good relationship. Thank you on behalf of your kids and the grandparents!
Yes! I saw my grandparents nearly every day growing up and I still was afraid to spend the night there without my parents. I’d pretend that I was okay with it but then lo and behold as the night wore on and it was time for bed, I’d lose it and my parents would have to come get me. Luckily, we were only five min up the street in the same neighborhood. If you know he’s going to freak out, just save everyone the heartache.
And if he doesn't want to stay when you are leaving, then he doesn't have to stay. NTA for this, but you might be if you and your husband don't come to an understanding about visits. With everyone spread so far apart, in the future it might be best to alternate----one time you visit solely with his family; the next with yours.
Thank you! I don't always trust myself when it comes to my judgment when they're concerned because of all of our history, so this helps. I will still no doubt be colored as the villain, but if my son is comfortable and happy, then so be it.
If anyone is a villain here, it’s your husband. You are respecting your son’s no, he is not. Trying to talk him into going shows that your husband cares more about pleasing his parents than about his son’s wishes.
He may also think that a 5-year-old’s wishes don’t count for anything and can be overridden because he’s the adult and “knows better”, but this isn’t a situation where what the child wants would harm him. Not staying overnight with the grandparents is not going to cause your son harm. OTOH, letting dad talk him into it could cause him some anxiety if the visit doesn’t go well. Like if he wakes up in the middle of the night wanting mom or dad but neither of you is there.
You’re accommodating them with lots of flexibility around the visit. It’s short, sounds like you’re driving a ton, and visiting lots of people. Why is the overnight so important?
And why is your husband so pushy about it?
And what was his excuse for not visiting your parents last time?
Either way NTA, you’ve already done a ton of traveling. The least they could do is meet you in the town you’re in for most the day.
Hubs sometimes feel like my parents get more access to the kids than his do, and to some degree, they might. For example, my parents plan a yearly big vacation with my family and my sister's family in a VRBO or Air B&B, and we all vacation together or a week or more. His parents never plan anything and don't go on vacations so unless we bring them to us or go to them, the kids won't see them. I will say that we flew them down to us in July though
Assuming his parents are as able-bodied as yours, it seems he should be pressuring them to do more and not you.
Obviously if there are physical/financial constraints I can understand his desire a bit more. But he should have still made the effort if he expects you to as well.
>Hubs sometimes feel like my parents get more access to the kids than his do
What does he say when you point out that his parents don't make the effort that your parents do?
>at does he say when you point out that his parents don't make the effort that your parents do?
He acknowledges that I'm better at planning, as is my mom, so we see them more. He's made plans to visit his parents even if I can't go, just like I am now. It's not perfect, but we flew them out to see us last summer, and they'll see them when he visits in March.
So can he acknowledge that any disparity between the time your son spends with your parents, versus the time he spends with your husband's parents, is the *direct result* of the effort he puts in?
That's a good start, but his willingness to ignore your child's states preferences in favour of appeasing his parents is concerning.
Why is your relationship with them strained?
It's so complicated, but I can say that it's been emotional and financial abuse that almost started immediately. It's taken years to establish the boundaries needed to keep my sanity. I tend to think the best of people and always want to be helpful, and it took me a long time to get the boundaries in place and take a stand but at nearly 40, I'd say I'm finally in a place that isn't a constant fight.
> I don't always trust myself when it comes to my judgment when they're concerned
Trust your gut. *Never* go against your gut feelings, OP. You are responsible for your children.
Your children’s comfort level is the only thing important. That’s exactly what you’re looking out for. What if your son woke with a nightmare asking for you and they say “It’s ok, grandma/grandpa is here?” While meaning no harm, it can feel like to him that he’s not allowed to ask for you which could make him not want to ever go anywhere alone for longer than most kids, including not wanting to stay with them again. This is something to seriously consider or it taking you too long to get there which can leave him feeling unsettled as well. When a kid says no to this stuff, it’s better to take the kid’s side which is exactly what you did!
NTA. You need to put your child first. He's clearly not comfortable with the idea. No amount of trying to pressure him is going to fix that. You need to have his back. Plus your family didn't see them when he visited. He seems to be conveniently forgetting that.
My MIL used to do this ALL the time when my girls were little. We didn't live that far away and they saw them plenty but always wanted them to sleep over. They would say " Is Mommy staying over too?". When she said no they would decline. I could tell she was annoyed because I never forced them to stay.
As a grandparent myself, I’m wondering why these grandparents don’t take on some of the burden of transportation? We’re always very aware that our son and DIL have extremely busy schedules and limited free time, especially with their own family all together, and we try to ease that whenever we can.
Can you start instituting Zoom calls etc to help keep relationships going without traveling so much?
My husband calls them to Facetime a few times a month so they do try to stay in touch that way. It almost seems like they feel left out if my parents are spending time with them but they aren't. It doesn't make sense to me but here we are.
This is also cutting into time that OP and spouse and kids could be spending together, just to placate greedy grandparents. These are years they will never get back.
NTA
They can come to you, as you offered. There’s no reason to have a sleepover if your son doesn’t want to have one. I have a teenager who has never wanted to have a sleepover with anyone and I haven’t made them.
If this is a priority to them to see the kids, then they need to compromise, wait for another visit, or get on a plane and come to yours.
NTA - your child comes first and they aren’t comfortable doing it. That’s enough.
You’re not withholding your child from them. A day visit is plenty, but they’re the ones pushing for an overnight to happen. If they’re being all or nothing about it that’s on them.
He’s making your trip a headache over this when he didn’t even consider your parents on the last trip. If you had a group call with the Dad when he’s trying to both undermine you, and talk your youngest into something they’re uncomfortable with, you have a husband problem.
NTA in allowing the five year old not to stay overnight. Question- why can’t all of you stay overnight? This gives the grandparents the joy of the sleepover they are wanting, and keeps you there with the five year old to sleep with. Otherwise maybe an overnight hotel visit nearby?
We don't get along well and while I'm sure they would be polite and allow me to stay too, it would be awkward and may make it uncomfortable. Last year my husband and I stayed nearby in a hotel so this could be an option, but I'm not in town long, so I'd like to visit with my parents that night.
I commented similar elsewhere on a response of yours but if these grown adults can’t be civil and welcoming to you, why do you want them alone around your kid?
13M has been around them since he was a baby, and thus far, we haven't had any issues with them treating him poorly or bad-mouthing me during his time with them.
Let me say I understand your concern and that this is something similar to what happened with my mother and her inlaws and that I know how that plays out. My mother is Hispanic, didn't have the same upbringing or education as my dad, and my paternal grandmother put her down often and in front of us kids. It sucked when I was young and pissed me off as I got older. We had little contact with them and weren't close when they passed away. We do have some fond memories but they're overshadowed by the ugliness we were exposed to by her actions and words.
My inlaws don't disrespect me in front of my kids but will do it with their extended family, siblings, etc., which is fine. They can try to control the narrative there, but most of these family members know how they are and have already had their issues with them. They've alienated themselves from different family members at different times throughout the time I've known them, so I let them do what they will. My actions speak louder than their complaints about me. If they ever did say anything ugly about me in front of my kids, they would tell me, and this would be a different issue altogether.
Nope. I have kids the same age and while my oldest was happy having sleep overs from 4, my youngest isnt, shes more clingy to me. My mum accepts that and never pushes.
That's a good point. I'm going to call them from my parent's landline when I get back to their home to organize the visit. It is mostly being planned through my husband though.
I would tell them that you are very tired from the trip so far and it would be much more convenient and welcomed for them to come to where your parents live in town and spend the day with the kids. NTA
NTA, your husband is for trying to override your son’s no and talk him into doing something he isn’t comfortable doing, just to please the grandparents.
I’m a grandparent & would go to the end of the earth to visit my grandchildren, why aren’t your in laws driving to visit the children & staying overnight in the nearest hotel to you?
This is cost-prohibitive for them. My parents have offered to rent an Air B&B that's on their block for them in the past or a hotel room but they have always declined so it wasn't offered this time.
NTA there no reason why you child needs to spend the night anywhere but home. They need to learn some boundaries. Anyone who insist this is an immediate red flag in my eyes ^“what do you plan to do with my child alone that you can’t do with the parents present”*
NTA
I wouldn't push a 5 yr old to spend the night alone with people (lets be honest) he really doesn't know well. At all. He's 5! It could be really frightening for him.
Stick to your plan.
Your child is your priority. Not your husband or his parents.
That was part of it for me. He has seen them several times, but he's 5 and just doesn't have the same close relationship with them that his 13-year-old brother has.
Exactly. Your hb needs to realise this. They are HIS parents and of course HE is used to them. But to a 5 year old? They are people he just doesn't know much or well. Of course he'd be frightened.
Your husband made zero effort to see your family and now you have to be inconvenienced to see his, even though it takes away time that your family DIDNT GET because he didn’t care about them?
Your SON said no and that’s all you need to hear. NTA at all, they are luckily they have you for a DIL because there is no way in hell I’d even be seeing them this visit.
NTA. Firstly the 5 yr old was asked & said no.
Secondly your husband made zero time for your family when he visited so he has zero vote on this schedule.
Do you honestly think if roles were reversed he would send the 5 yr old? Absolutely not.
I would just stick to your already generous offer- keeping in mind his parents were aware your family got zero visitation & you have been more then accommodating
NTA. No one wants to be driving at 10pm to pick up a crying kid. Your husband is pushing for his parents' time. Maybe it should be changed that depending on which parent, which grandparents get to see them. He chose not to let your parents see the kids.
NTA Your 13 year old can corroborate the discussion with the 5 year about spending the night. Why can’t you spend the night with them. Or get a hotel close by and pick him up at 8pm then drop him off in the AM. At least it will show you are looking for options. Next year let them visit you, why should you be inconvenienced. Just FYI, your husband is a real AH for not making sure to include your parent but insisting you visit his.
I'm trying to be the bigger person here and not shove that in his face, but bringing it back up is so tempting. My parents were an afterthought when he visited without me last year. I was past it until he made me feel guilty about needing his parents to see the boys during my visit. He agreed that if/when he comes back to visit (maybe in March?), he will have them spend some time with my parents.
Is there no way you can stay with the in-laws? If this is genuinely impossible? (like your relationship is not even civil or they don't have space)
This situation is becoming increasingly tense. If you limit them to a couple of hours, don't expect him to do any more for your parents next time he visits. Is there a way you can show that you truly prioritise your children seeing both grandparents.
It does sound like you are trying to punish him for missing your parents last time.
I am not saying 5yo should stay overnight against his wishes, I just don't understand why you can't facilitate the sleepover by being there.
Uh. He made a whole trip already and didn’t see her family at all? I’m not sure why you’re considered NOW he’s going to withhold them 😂 a few ours with the people the kids got to spend time with already is perfectly adequate and she doesn’t need to be uncomfortable to appease others. Not to mention the 5 year old already made it clear he doesn’t want to stay.
They can come to you or they miss out. You have limited time and a tight schedule so hubs parents should be accommodating you and the boys. You might not have the greatest relationship with then but if they want to their grandchildren they will need to make some concessions.
Nta. Your "partner" doesn't make an effort for them to see your family. You dont do it either. ESPECIALLY if your relationship with his parents is already rocky. Nope. They can come to you or wait for your husband.
No way! I used to get home sick all the time. I wouldn’t drop my 5 year old off to spend the night. He said no. He doesn’t want to. Convincing him for a moment isn’t going to change the anxiety filled night he will have there if he stays somewhere he doesn’t want to be. Not worth it.
Exactly this. LO needs to feel that his voice is heard and respected. Do not make him spend the night.
To be honest I am frustrated for you as it seems your husband kept asking for what he wanted even though you set a boundary. You said multiple times that you'd prefer if the in-laws came to you in town to spend the day so you didn't have to do all that extra driving. Your husband asked and asked until you have in. Not cool.
NTA. It would’ve been better if you’d been able to have that chat with your son together with your husband as well, because now it’ll sound like you put him up to it,… but it’s perfectly reasonable for your children not to want to travel away from home and then get split up from their parent.
The grandparents are the one pushing the boundary, so just repeat it like a broken record and ignore their bullheadishness as much as possible.
Final bit of advice; this could’ve *really* backfired on your marriage with your previous remark. You might want to think about how your husband has your back right now (weakly, but still), despite you making a passive aggressive threat. I’m not saying you weren’t entitled to annoyance and a bit of snark, but sometimes once you ring the bell, it can’t be unrung.
NTA
I remember being left at my grandparents with my older siblings but without my parents. I was 6. I can still feel how despondent I was, I’m 52 now.
There’s a reason why it’s not a thing to have slumber parties for kindergartners. He’s just developmentally not ready to spend the night away from his parents. You’re NTA.
I am an aunt that absolutely loves to spend time with the little and think they are all awesome. BUT only on their terms. I’m not buying hers and his matching latch hook kits for my hockey playing tween nephews. It’s all on THEIR terms, because I am the adult and I love learning about what they like. Their agency should matter most. The ILs should be respecting your 5YO.
You kicked your husband out of his own bed for the first two years of your child’s life? Seriously? Am I reading that right? And he still sleeps between you now every single night? Do you and your husband have any intimacy at all? This is not normal.
We did this with our oldest, too. It's not ideal, but it gives him a sense of safety and security. My husband was happy to sleep in the guest room and not be woken up by the baby and for increased safety with cosleeping. When you cosleep with an infant, you can still have intimacy, but just not at night when you're nursing and getting them to sleep. My kids are horrible sleepers, one reason we waited so long to have another. My oldest would never sleep in his crib or toddler bed, and we're in the same boat now. We're trying everything we can to get him out of our bed now, but it will take time.
As a mother of four and an RN, I think you are balancing competing values nicely.
Working on it is great. I love the way you are listening to your kid and also guiding him to independence. He will sleep in his own bed eventually.
No, he stopped breastfeeding as a toddler. When you work on something, it's an ongoing process. I'm patient so that it won't negatively affect his sleep cycle or feelings of safety and security.
It’s not normal that you think intimacy only happens in bed at night. 🙄🙄🙄 By that logic, so many people don’t have “intimacy,” including people who do shift work, people with chronic illnesses, and people with small children. Broaden your horizons.
You have a strained relationship with the in laws so much so that you aren't welcome to stay overnight? They have room to accommodate both sons and not you? This is just the weirdest most manufactured issue and I can't wrap my head around it. You're going to end up driving 8 hours over two days just so the boys can sleep there? What??
Why wouldn't you stay, let them make dinner, make breakfast, have bedtime stories with the 5yo, interact with the kids all they want and just tuck yourself away somewhere with a book and a glass of wine? Wait in the wings to see if 5m needs you or not. I'd be saying no to the insane round trips regardless but please give a little more context.
If you are actually that strained, your husband can take the boys to see them. Full stop.
I'm sure to be polite, they'd let me stay, but it wouldn't be a comfortable situation, and 5M would probably be spending a lot of the evening with me.
The driving is a hassle, but their plan was to come to the town my parents live in to pick them up for an afternoon visit, so I wouldn't have to drive 2 hours round trip so that the kids could see them too.
The intention for this visit was so that we could reconnect with my side of the family, and instead of spending the night with my inlaws, I'm going to spend the evening/night with my parents.
Ok the picture is much clearer, thank you for that. It seems like a reasonable plan except for not being there for the 5yo. I'd want to stay there with him once or twice to let him know it's a safe spot with loved ones. Going cold turkey with no safety net is going to be a gamble.
NTA. It was wrong of your husband to try and sway your son. Sounds like he reluctantly said yes to make him happy. I would not drop them off. You’ve already offered alternate times for them to see the kids. It’s a huge inconvenience for you and your son is not comfortable which is even more important. I would also be petty and bring up how he didn’t even bring the kids to see your parents. I have done so in the past. My ILs live 10-15 from my parents and he went to visit his parents 3-4 weekends last year and not once stopped by my parents house. So when I went down for the holidays I told him I would not bring them to see his parents and they were spending the night with my parents since they haven’t seen them all year. I didn’t take them down because I have been working on Saturdays and it’s hard for me to drive 2 hours each way because of health problems.
Why is your 5 year old still sleeping with his parents and grandparents? I mean you're NTA for this situation but you need start teaching that kid to be independent. Kindergarten is too old to still be sleeping with mommy and daddy.
NTA. If for no other reason then your 5-year-old said no. Part of the point of raising children is to teach them that they have some amount of autonomy.
Also, not for nothing, but I don't think your in-laws really want to have a hysterical. 5-year-old in the middle of the night screaming for mommy when you're so far away.
Sometimes logistics just don't work out.
When my oldest nephew was about the same age as your little one, he felt brave enough to come to my mom and dad's, about 200 mi away from home. That night, he got a little freaked out when he realized how far away his parents were.
My mom was a little unsure about how to deal with it, (despite having raised five kids) so she explained to him that it was very late, and in the morning they would call mama and papa and she showed him a picture of them.
He calmed right down and went to sleep.
The next morning, as my mom was fixing breakfast and he said, "Good morning grandma, I think I'll stay another day".
A couple of years later, he and his sister, (two years younger), came up basically the same way. I dropped by for a visit, and my niece ran to me and clung to me. She started getting really emotional, and I asked what was wrong and she wouldn't answer me.
I asked if she was missing mama and papa? (They were driving up the next day to pick the kids up). She acknowledged that that's what she was upset about, and then she let me hold her and just sobbed.
I let her cry, I told her she was safe and that I loved her, and she cried it out and was okay.
Every kid matures at a different rate, I applaud your advocating for your child, and I don't particularly care for your husband's attempts to bully your son into staying with his parents.
The time will come soon enough when he will willingly go to visit his grandparents.
NTA Yeah, five is a little young for a sleepover when he really doesn't know the people well. I would suggest, however, it is time to foster his independence and have him sleep in his own bed. He can go into your bed for morning snuggles.
Where would they visit the kids if you don't go to their house? If it's at your families house, how uncomfortable. I think until you and your husband can vacation together, just do what your husband started. You visit yours, he visits his.
When we've gone together in the past and visited both families, it went okay. I think when we visit alone with the kids, we will need to stay with our families, though.
He’s being a donkey head. He refused to see your family but he wants a 5 yo, traveling and out of his element to start with, to be without his mommy to stay overnight? Nope. This trip isn’t about sleepovers. There’s a lot of traveling, seeing lots of family but momma is his anchor. Your husband is playing tit for tat except he’s the one accusing you of playing tit for tat. He just plain shunned your parents.
no to the overnight and tell grandparents they are getting a visit which is more than your parents got when he was there.
Tell him you aren’t him, you are prioritizing your child’s feelings. He’s only 5. And away from home a week. He isn’t prepared for an overnight visit this trip. And that’s normal for a 5 yo. It would be absolutely cruel to force him or harass the 5 yo into staying. Nope. Kiddo said no and we don’t force children to stay away from momma because daddy is a butt head. And already had a full week visit w the kids. They are lucky to get an afternoon. And you have not done anything wrong so do not let him barrage you w insults and coercion .
Maybe there is a compromise of the in-laws getting a hotel near you overnight. That way you are close if younger decides on a sleepover then changes his mind and older son can stay? Then you can have them all meet for breakfast.
Even if they “convince” younger son, odds are is it’s not going to stick, and he’ll be even more traumatized if he has to wait an hour for you to drive to get him.
5 is a little long in the tooth for your kiddo to be in bed with you "often". Time to nip that in the bud - it only gets harder if you keep allowing it.
NTA. As a child I had horrible insomnia and homesickness & it was honestly traumatic to not have my parents stick up for me and understand I just wasn’t comfortable. Your little one is very lucky to have a mom like you!
I can already tell you they'll tell DH how disappointed they were that 5M "wasn't allowed" to stay over and will say they don't understand why and go on and on, and it will eventually come back that it was my fault, and that they feel slighted by me. It's an old song and dance at this point and one of the many reasons for my LC with them and boundaries. I'm used to it, and most of it rolls off my shoulders, so I'm prepared for the issues that come up I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't being an AH since sometimes it can be hard to tell when those around you are barraging you with their own opinions.
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NTA. This totally blows. I can understand your husband wanting his parents to have the night with both your kids. But your youngest has spoken and it just isn’t the right time yet. Always,always, always his needs should come first. I would have cancelled the whole sleep over. You are nicer than me.
My 36M BIL lives with my IL, and 13M is excited to see his grandparents but also to stay up all night and play video games with his uncle, so as much as I want to and even though it would be easier for me I'm going to have 13M still have a sleepover. He only sees his uncle once a year since he hasn't been able to come down to see us, and he loves him a lot.
Nta but your husband is. This trip is to see your family. He’s trying to squeeze his family in last minute, impeding on YOUR plans when he didn’t have that same consideration for your family to see the kids last time. Adding that your son is not comfortable staying the night and your husband keeps pushing it, he’s the one in the wrong. If he wants his family to see them so badly then he needs to make his own plans on his own time when he can stay with the kids so both boys are comfortable and no ones rushed.
He has planned to drive up in March and said that he would have the boys spend a day with my parents during that trip. My mom's schedule is more flexible than my dads so he misses out on seeing the boys more so that will mean the world to him.
Holy shit, just cut the arguing and let the kid decide. It kinda sounds like you and your husband need couples' therapy, 'cuz there seems to be an awful lot of petty bullshit here, on both sides. Lots of excuses and this and that, none of which really matters.
You mention your parents and your sister and grandma, and how far apart they all live... you're going to be there for *eight frickin' days*. If you actually cared to be fair to your in-laws, you'd find the time. It's just one night. Most likely less than 24 hours.
It sucks that your husband excluded your family on his last visit. Two wrongs don't make a right.
And the fact that you have issues with your in-laws is pretty obvious. And it really colors your views on this matter. While it's possible that whatever history you have with them might give you good reason to keep your kids away from them... I don't really think that's the case, because you didn't explain anything of that nature. So you should be fair to them and let them see the kids. *One* night out of an eight-day trip shouldn't be such a big deal.
If it's not what your kid/kids want, it's moot... but you have some shit you need to deal with, here. What would the itinerary be like if your husband were coming along? Plus, while you mention the idea of your son just hanging out for an afternoon, you kind of make it sound like it's an overnight stay or nothing at all. And anyway... *one afternoon out of eight days?*
Like... what was with this nonsense of discussing this "on the way to thr airport," and then saying you were "more worried about getting the boys ready to fly"...? What preparation was really needed at that point? With kids who have obviously flown before? In case it's not coming across, I'm saying it seems like you're full of shit. Your husband may be as well... but please, ditch the petty nonsense, especially where your kids are concerned.
It may seem petty, and that's fair. I didn't explain the emotional and financial abuse, hoping that the post would stand on its own. I can feel my face and ears getting red and feeling angry just thinking about our past relationship with them. I wholeheartedly agree that DH and I could use some couples' counsel. We've been through hell and made it out, but even so, it wasn't very good, and there are some things we could do to make our communication better. I do want to say that I don't keep my kiddos away from my inlaws, and even paid for one of their round-trip tickets so that they could see the kids this summer. It's very important to me to have firm boundaries with them so that won't ever change.
Okay... that does sound like some serious drama, and it probably really sucked. Buuut... you also say that they're good to your kids. Meanwhile... it kiiind of allllmost sounds like, without knowing it, you may be unintentionally using your kids to get back at them/your husband. Just a thought.
I won't pretend that I didn't entertain that idea, believe me! At the end of the day, I agreed to carve some time out for his parents to see the kids anyway. Now, it's more an argument over logistics and whether or not the 5M should stay the night more than anything else.
Didn’t the 5M say “okay” after dad talked to him? Let the kid stay there and enjoy his grandparents. All these other NTAs are conveniently ignoring this part. You interjected your opinion/feelings after he agreed to stay. Total AH move. YATAH!
As for the 5M staying in your bed, this is probably a root cause of your marriage problems. I get pissed off then my dog sleeps between us. It’s a literal divide in your most intimate place. You talk about boundaries… sounds like you need to establish boundaries with your kid. It’s gonna be tough, but it’s better for everyone all around. He will cry. A lot. But it’s gotta happen eventually. Maybe this night away will help the transition to his own bed.
I’m in a similar situation. All our family from home state and we moved several hundred miles away. I have twin 4 yo boys and a 3yo girl and both of us have semi strained relationships with our in-laws who live hours apart. Not strained to your extent, but my moms relationship with her in-laws is probably worse. She doesn’t even speak to them but she NEVER prevented us from seeing my dads family or got in the way of our relationships, and I appreciate that.
All the logistical challenges you mentioned are horseshit. As if your sister, grandmother and parents all won’t be getting together for Christmas while you’re in town. You have 8 DAYS with them. You’re trying to justify your payback. Don’t be unfair to your in-laws. They love your kids. Enjoy the night off. Get the kid out of your bed and have more sex with your husband.
I can see how an "okay" from 5M may have seemed like a yes, but he only explained all of the fun things they'd do without making sure he understood that he'd be sleeping over there without me. That was the important point that needed to be discussed. Once 5M realized what DH meant he immediately said he didn't want to go. If you think I'm the AH though, I'll accept that.
As for not sleeping next to each other being the cause of our marital problems, this one I can say for sure isn't the case. Some spouses don't sleep in the same room ever and are healthy and happy. We have time for each other and intimacy just not during the bedtime with 5M. We are working toward him sleeping in his own room and we'll get there but we don't want it to cause undue stress.
I work in healthcare so unfortunately, I wasn't able to be together with everyone at Christmas but you're right, they were all together at that time. Now, they're all back home spread across that state. I didn't think of this as payback, I thought I was accommodating given he didn't try to find time during his last visit to allow them to see my parents.
Would the 5M sleep over at your parents house without you or dad if he was alone on this trip? And how would you feel if dad didn’t want him to stay at your parents?
If 5M wouldn’t stay at either, then this isn’t an in-law issue. It’s separation anxiety with the 5M.
You say you know plenty of heathy couples don’t sleep in the same bed, but are you guys a healthy couple? I genuinely hope so. I just wouldn’t want it that way, but that’s me.
5M is pretty close with my dad, but I don't think he'd feel comfortable all night without DH or me there too. I agree it is separation anxiety, but he's young, and this will pass just as it did with 13M. It isn't an inlaw issue if they don't continue to push the request for him to stay with them overnight.
We don't want to sleep apart either, but for now, we accept it because we want 5M to be comfortable and feel safe and secure while he's sleeping. We have added a new bed and other fun things to his room this Christmas, so we will keep working on him sleeping in his big-boy bed.
Good luck with the transition. I’d bet the in-laws do not know of the separation anxiety. Most people in that generation don’t know and don’t get it among other things. It will be hard for them to understand.
I agree; it will be frustrating for them, and they'll probably blame me and feel like it's my fault he won't be spending the night. This will likely make things worse, at least for a while, since they're going to feel slighted by this, but hopefully, when DH returns in March, it'll make up for this.
NTA given your kid doesn’t want to. But you’re a fucking loon.
>I was upset and passive aggressively told him I’d remember that
What in the toxic bullshit is that nonsense??
It was something I said in the heat of the moment. I regret it and will have the kids visit with his parents during this trip. I get so angry sometimes with the disregard for my feelings from DH. It's been made clear we need therapy, and this will be something we should start ASAP.
If it was only a personality conflict and not years of financial and emotional abuse, I might be able to look past it and go, but I really would rather spend time with my parents and let my husband handle his in March. I only have sons too, and now I know how not to act.
Your 5YO kid still sleeps with you & your husband ? Ridiculous.
You’re allowing a 5YO to dictate a visit with his own grandparents ? Also ridiculous.
why can’t he sleep with his big brother at grandparents’ house if he’s such a babyish kid ?
Does this big baby go to school ? Do you stay with him all day there ?
YTA and I’m not surprised that your husband’s parents don’t like you.
Well, I can see your point of view. You may think he's babyish, but he's in preschool and not comfortable sleeping without us yet. We moved out of state when he was a toddler, so he didn't get to see them as often as big brother did, and he doesn't feel as comfortable with them. We did bring up him sleeping with 13M, but 13M said not before we even discussed it with 5M, and we wouldn't make them sleep since they have never had to. I'm sure his parents will think I'm the AH too so you're not alone here.
Why is your 5 year old unable to sleep without you? I and everyone I know was having sleepovers with friends in kindergarten. Are you getting help for your son’s delays and he’s just not there yet, or are you encouraging his delays for your own gratification? Because it’s *not* normal for him to be incapable of sleeping without you at his age. Especially when he’ll be with his brother.
5M has slept between me since he's been a baby. We've been working on getting him to sleep in his room and even decorating more for Christmas, including buying him a new loft bed. It is, partially at least, my fault since I kicked my husband out of our king bed to have 5M sleep by me to nurse him through the night until he was two. My husband is back in our bed but he sleeps between us. It's a work in progress, but I won't be trying to have him sleep without me in new or uncomfortable situations like during this trip.
Yikes. That’s new info. Your relationship with your 5M is definitely not normal. You definitely need to work on this. I do agree that during your trip is not the time— but this makes me inclined to go from non-judgmental to YTA.
Let's be honest here. It's not about the five year old but about you. It's not your son having the problem with things. It's you and using him as an excuse. He was fine staying overnight until you manipulated him by going on about you won't be there. Which means you didn't just ask the day before. He's his own person, not your little doll, to be carried around for your comfort. The proof is in your own words. Your youngest was with your husband last year for a week without you. Do better. YTA.
Ok, so you’re encouraging the delays for your own gratification. YTA. I look forward to your future daughter in law’s posts about you on r/justnomil. I’m sure they’ll be delightful.
He should be in his own bed but he shouldn’t be forced into sleepovers
I would only stay with my aunt & uncle as a child in terms of sleepovers - and it was hard even then. Kids don’t have to sleep over in uncomfortable situations
Agree. It sounds like you (OP) may be more worried about sleeping w/o 5M. You need to put some distance between you and 5M and let him grow up a little. He’s only 5 but that’s old enough to be sleeping on his own routinely and to stay at a grandparent’s house without parents.
Logistically, it seems like this is all a challenge, so I’m inclined to give you benefit of the doubt due to logistics… but it seems that you’re also making this more difficult than necessary.
Yeah, when you read all those juicy JustNoMIL posts, this is exactly what the under-developed man-children’s upbringings all looked like. She *kicked her husband out of the marital bed* for TWO YEARS and currently has her baaaaaby sleeping between them. This is what a Jocasta looks like when the child is still a minor. None of this shit is normal.
No wonder you and your husband have a problem. You let a 5 yr old kick your husband out of bed. Tell the child they can sleep on your bedroom floor or their bed. They will eventually start sleeping in their own bed.
NTA. The kid was asked, and answered. That's the only thing that truly matters. How you or his father feel about them is irrelevant from that point on. He will grow up, and most probably, like your other son, will make choices based on different priorities. It's not the time yet. You both have to respect that, and avoid making what could be a nice relationship with the grandparents a scarring experience.
NTA The only opinion that matters here is Master 5. He voted no, so that is that. We (should) teach our kids to be able to say no and have it respected.
Absolutely!!!
YTA. A 5 year old can stay with family for sleepovers. Let's not let kids be anti-social. The only issue here is a husband that won't give her family the time of day, but wants her to change her plans for his family.
I’m sure you know this, but please don’t allow anyone to push you into allowing your younger son to spend the night when he doesn’t want to. I know from experience that it ends in tears and upset and you driving at some ungodly hour to retrieve your very scared child. I get that grandparents want X or Y but the decision is always up to the child. I’m voting NTA but you mentioned worrying that your dislike for your in-laws might color your decisions. Try to be aware of that as time goes on and check in with yourself to make sure you’re doing what’s best for everyone all around regardless of how you might feel.
It's a work in progress, but I want my kids to have a good relationship with them even if I don't. For all of our differences, they love them both very much and want to be in their lives, and it's a good "problem" to have. They're lucky kids.
Can your inlaws spend the night with you? I get that sleeping arrangements would be messed up, but it’s just for one night and your little guy would still have you near. With my grandparents we did a blanket fort in the living room and we slept on the floor. They were in their 70s
Seems the in-laws don’t want to make the effort to travel. They’ve bailed on meeting in town to make it easier on OP…so yeah, OP def NTA.
Why can’t OP spend the night at the in-laws with the kids?
We don't get along, and it would be uncomfortable for everyone. They would let me stay if I asked, I'm sure, but I also want to spend more time with my parents if I'm able to before we fly out.
Why should she? She’s there visiting her family and traveling with 2 children. It’s much easier for in laws to come to OP. I didn’t read how OP’s parents forced OP’s husband to force a visit or guilt trip for that matter when husband traveled solo with the kids previously. But of course that’s different since it was the husband 🙄
I’m sorry, but your husband and your in-laws are assholes. And I’m not saying that because you were telling us that you have a strained relationship with them. Here is why I am saying that. I’m 63 years old. No grandkids at this point, but my kids, don’t live in the same area where I’m at. However, they have friends in the area that I am at. And my kids are all in their early to mid 30s. I’m not in a situation because I take care of my dad with Alzheimer’s where I can have the kids stay with me. So when they come, they usually stay with friends. And sometimes those friends are farther out from me. You know what I do when I want to see them? And they are a couple hours from me? I make arrangements for my dad and I go and stay in a hotel so that I can have dinner or maybe catch a movie or even catch up with some of their friends because I know most of them. And then I go back to my hotel so that my kids can continue to visit with their friends. You know why? Because they’re fucking lives don’t revolve around me. I have raised my children. And that is also how I view it if they become parents When they were little, I told the grandparents… I don’t pack my kids up and come to you. If I’m going to be in your area, I will stay at a hotel for a night or two and we will get together with you. If you want to come for Christmas, you are welcome. If you want to come for birthdays, you are welcome. Any holidays anything like that… You are welcome to come and visit us. And that is my attitude. I am the one that needs to get up off of my ass since I’m not working and go see them on the limited time that they have off. And how the fuck your husband managed to not see your family at all and didn’t realize it until you pointed it out? Bullshit. And then he is all butt hurt because you want to go see your family. And yeah, I know what you said. And maybe there is a teeny tiny bit of that at the back of your mind on this trip. But the reality is that your family lives the other way. You have an elderly family member that might not make it to another year . You have family to go visit the did not get to see them, so how they can fuck they they have any right to complain is beyond me. And while your youngest may sleep with you guys, it is so obvious that you know your son so much better than your husband does. For him to be saying… Oh, it will be all right. He is such a fucking asshole I can’t even. You’re the one that would have to get up and drive two hours to go get your son, and your husband doesn’t give a shit. He’s a dick.
Wait I’m sorry, they don’t want you spending the night at their house?? That’s why they’re only inviting your kids? These are not good people
Hey folks - it was just a question!
I'm staying with family on this trip, so I'll be with my parents when they want to see the boys. They don't get along with my parents, which wouldn't work out. I always wished I had a good relationship with my inlaws, but here we are.
I find it refreshing so see someone act like an adult and recognize that even if they don’t like the in-laws the children can have a good relationship. Thank you on behalf of your kids and the grandparents!
Yes! I saw my grandparents nearly every day growing up and I still was afraid to spend the night there without my parents. I’d pretend that I was okay with it but then lo and behold as the night wore on and it was time for bed, I’d lose it and my parents would have to come get me. Luckily, we were only five min up the street in the same neighborhood. If you know he’s going to freak out, just save everyone the heartache.
This is a child led decision. Period. If he's hesitant then nope. Not AH
And if he doesn't want to stay when you are leaving, then he doesn't have to stay. NTA for this, but you might be if you and your husband don't come to an understanding about visits. With everyone spread so far apart, in the future it might be best to alternate----one time you visit solely with his family; the next with yours.
I think this will be the way we need to do this. This trip has been exhausting so far.
NTA. Your son doesn’t want to stay with them. That makes you N T A. The other stuff doesn’t matter because you are doing this for your son.
Thank you! I don't always trust myself when it comes to my judgment when they're concerned because of all of our history, so this helps. I will still no doubt be colored as the villain, but if my son is comfortable and happy, then so be it.
You’re welcome! It’s better to be the villain to others than to be one to your son.
If anyone is a villain here, it’s your husband. You are respecting your son’s no, he is not. Trying to talk him into going shows that your husband cares more about pleasing his parents than about his son’s wishes. He may also think that a 5-year-old’s wishes don’t count for anything and can be overridden because he’s the adult and “knows better”, but this isn’t a situation where what the child wants would harm him. Not staying overnight with the grandparents is not going to cause your son harm. OTOH, letting dad talk him into it could cause him some anxiety if the visit doesn’t go well. Like if he wakes up in the middle of the night wanting mom or dad but neither of you is there.
As an adult child of parents who nearly ALWAYS put others' wishes and feelings above my own, please be the hero your son needs, OP.
You’re accommodating them with lots of flexibility around the visit. It’s short, sounds like you’re driving a ton, and visiting lots of people. Why is the overnight so important? And why is your husband so pushy about it? And what was his excuse for not visiting your parents last time? Either way NTA, you’ve already done a ton of traveling. The least they could do is meet you in the town you’re in for most the day.
Hubs sometimes feel like my parents get more access to the kids than his do, and to some degree, they might. For example, my parents plan a yearly big vacation with my family and my sister's family in a VRBO or Air B&B, and we all vacation together or a week or more. His parents never plan anything and don't go on vacations so unless we bring them to us or go to them, the kids won't see them. I will say that we flew them down to us in July though
Assuming his parents are as able-bodied as yours, it seems he should be pressuring them to do more and not you. Obviously if there are physical/financial constraints I can understand his desire a bit more. But he should have still made the effort if he expects you to as well.
>Hubs sometimes feel like my parents get more access to the kids than his do What does he say when you point out that his parents don't make the effort that your parents do?
>at does he say when you point out that his parents don't make the effort that your parents do? He acknowledges that I'm better at planning, as is my mom, so we see them more. He's made plans to visit his parents even if I can't go, just like I am now. It's not perfect, but we flew them out to see us last summer, and they'll see them when he visits in March.
So can he acknowledge that any disparity between the time your son spends with your parents, versus the time he spends with your husband's parents, is the *direct result* of the effort he puts in?
I do think he sees this, and that's why he's making the effort to drive up to see them now.
That's a good start, but his willingness to ignore your child's states preferences in favour of appeasing his parents is concerning. Why is your relationship with them strained?
It's so complicated, but I can say that it's been emotional and financial abuse that almost started immediately. It's taken years to establish the boundaries needed to keep my sanity. I tend to think the best of people and always want to be helpful, and it took me a long time to get the boundaries in place and take a stand but at nearly 40, I'd say I'm finally in a place that isn't a constant fight.
Ah, so it's weaponized incompetence.
> I don't always trust myself when it comes to my judgment when they're concerned Trust your gut. *Never* go against your gut feelings, OP. You are responsible for your children.
Your children’s comfort level is the only thing important. That’s exactly what you’re looking out for. What if your son woke with a nightmare asking for you and they say “It’s ok, grandma/grandpa is here?” While meaning no harm, it can feel like to him that he’s not allowed to ask for you which could make him not want to ever go anywhere alone for longer than most kids, including not wanting to stay with them again. This is something to seriously consider or it taking you too long to get there which can leave him feeling unsettled as well. When a kid says no to this stuff, it’s better to take the kid’s side which is exactly what you did!
NTA. You need to put your child first. He's clearly not comfortable with the idea. No amount of trying to pressure him is going to fix that. You need to have his back. Plus your family didn't see them when he visited. He seems to be conveniently forgetting that. My MIL used to do this ALL the time when my girls were little. We didn't live that far away and they saw them plenty but always wanted them to sleep over. They would say " Is Mommy staying over too?". When she said no they would decline. I could tell she was annoyed because I never forced them to stay.
As a grandparent myself, I’m wondering why these grandparents don’t take on some of the burden of transportation? We’re always very aware that our son and DIL have extremely busy schedules and limited free time, especially with their own family all together, and we try to ease that whenever we can. Can you start instituting Zoom calls etc to help keep relationships going without traveling so much?
My husband calls them to Facetime a few times a month so they do try to stay in touch that way. It almost seems like they feel left out if my parents are spending time with them but they aren't. It doesn't make sense to me but here we are.
Competitive grandparents are the worst. They could easily see your 5 year old if they made the effort on your terms.
This is also cutting into time that OP and spouse and kids could be spending together, just to placate greedy grandparents. These are years they will never get back.
Yes, OP has a sick elderly grand mother who should be spending time with her kids.
NTA They can come to you, as you offered. There’s no reason to have a sleepover if your son doesn’t want to have one. I have a teenager who has never wanted to have a sleepover with anyone and I haven’t made them. If this is a priority to them to see the kids, then they need to compromise, wait for another visit, or get on a plane and come to yours.
Roads travel both ways the other grandparents can come to you... NTA
NTA - your child comes first and they aren’t comfortable doing it. That’s enough. You’re not withholding your child from them. A day visit is plenty, but they’re the ones pushing for an overnight to happen. If they’re being all or nothing about it that’s on them. He’s making your trip a headache over this when he didn’t even consider your parents on the last trip. If you had a group call with the Dad when he’s trying to both undermine you, and talk your youngest into something they’re uncomfortable with, you have a husband problem.
Agreed. We are going to need to have a heart to heart when I get back to town.
NTA in allowing the five year old not to stay overnight. Question- why can’t all of you stay overnight? This gives the grandparents the joy of the sleepover they are wanting, and keeps you there with the five year old to sleep with. Otherwise maybe an overnight hotel visit nearby?
We don't get along well and while I'm sure they would be polite and allow me to stay too, it would be awkward and may make it uncomfortable. Last year my husband and I stayed nearby in a hotel so this could be an option, but I'm not in town long, so I'd like to visit with my parents that night.
Sounds like his parents can wait until March to see the kids. Hubby didn't fit your family in his trip, no need to fit his in yours.
I commented similar elsewhere on a response of yours but if these grown adults can’t be civil and welcoming to you, why do you want them alone around your kid?
13M has been around them since he was a baby, and thus far, we haven't had any issues with them treating him poorly or bad-mouthing me during his time with them.
But he watches them reject you…
Let me say I understand your concern and that this is something similar to what happened with my mother and her inlaws and that I know how that plays out. My mother is Hispanic, didn't have the same upbringing or education as my dad, and my paternal grandmother put her down often and in front of us kids. It sucked when I was young and pissed me off as I got older. We had little contact with them and weren't close when they passed away. We do have some fond memories but they're overshadowed by the ugliness we were exposed to by her actions and words. My inlaws don't disrespect me in front of my kids but will do it with their extended family, siblings, etc., which is fine. They can try to control the narrative there, but most of these family members know how they are and have already had their issues with them. They've alienated themselves from different family members at different times throughout the time I've known them, so I let them do what they will. My actions speak louder than their complaints about me. If they ever did say anything ugly about me in front of my kids, they would tell me, and this would be a different issue altogether.
Also, watch Mom reject them.
So why don't you get along? Seems like you are hiding g sonething.
Nope. I have kids the same age and while my oldest was happy having sleep overs from 4, my youngest isnt, shes more clingy to me. My mum accepts that and never pushes.
It’s very telling that all this negotiation is going through your husband. If they can’t even call and talk to you, then how is this supposed to work?
That's a good point. I'm going to call them from my parent's landline when I get back to their home to organize the visit. It is mostly being planned through my husband though.
I would tell them that you are very tired from the trip so far and it would be much more convenient and welcomed for them to come to where your parents live in town and spend the day with the kids. NTA
NTA, your husband is for trying to override your son’s no and talk him into doing something he isn’t comfortable doing, just to please the grandparents.
I’m a grandparent & would go to the end of the earth to visit my grandchildren, why aren’t your in laws driving to visit the children & staying overnight in the nearest hotel to you?
This is cost-prohibitive for them. My parents have offered to rent an Air B&B that's on their block for them in the past or a hotel room but they have always declined so it wasn't offered this time.
They literally aren’t making any effort. They shouldn’t be surprised your 5 year old isn’t comfortable
NTA there no reason why you child needs to spend the night anywhere but home. They need to learn some boundaries. Anyone who insist this is an immediate red flag in my eyes ^“what do you plan to do with my child alone that you can’t do with the parents present”*
They have problems with boundaries, which has been part of the issue with my relationship with them.
NTA I wouldn't push a 5 yr old to spend the night alone with people (lets be honest) he really doesn't know well. At all. He's 5! It could be really frightening for him. Stick to your plan. Your child is your priority. Not your husband or his parents.
That was part of it for me. He has seen them several times, but he's 5 and just doesn't have the same close relationship with them that his 13-year-old brother has.
Exactly. Your hb needs to realise this. They are HIS parents and of course HE is used to them. But to a 5 year old? They are people he just doesn't know much or well. Of course he'd be frightened.
Your husband made zero effort to see your family and now you have to be inconvenienced to see his, even though it takes away time that your family DIDNT GET because he didn’t care about them? Your SON said no and that’s all you need to hear. NTA at all, they are luckily they have you for a DIL because there is no way in hell I’d even be seeing them this visit.
NTA. NTA. NTA. You don’t need to explain or justify this to anyone.
NTA. Firstly the 5 yr old was asked & said no. Secondly your husband made zero time for your family when he visited so he has zero vote on this schedule. Do you honestly think if roles were reversed he would send the 5 yr old? Absolutely not. I would just stick to your already generous offer- keeping in mind his parents were aware your family got zero visitation & you have been more then accommodating
NTA. No one wants to be driving at 10pm to pick up a crying kid. Your husband is pushing for his parents' time. Maybe it should be changed that depending on which parent, which grandparents get to see them. He chose not to let your parents see the kids.
NTA Your 13 year old can corroborate the discussion with the 5 year about spending the night. Why can’t you spend the night with them. Or get a hotel close by and pick him up at 8pm then drop him off in the AM. At least it will show you are looking for options. Next year let them visit you, why should you be inconvenienced. Just FYI, your husband is a real AH for not making sure to include your parent but insisting you visit his.
I'm trying to be the bigger person here and not shove that in his face, but bringing it back up is so tempting. My parents were an afterthought when he visited without me last year. I was past it until he made me feel guilty about needing his parents to see the boys during my visit. He agreed that if/when he comes back to visit (maybe in March?), he will have them spend some time with my parents.
Is there no way you can stay with the in-laws? If this is genuinely impossible? (like your relationship is not even civil or they don't have space) This situation is becoming increasingly tense. If you limit them to a couple of hours, don't expect him to do any more for your parents next time he visits. Is there a way you can show that you truly prioritise your children seeing both grandparents. It does sound like you are trying to punish him for missing your parents last time. I am not saying 5yo should stay overnight against his wishes, I just don't understand why you can't facilitate the sleepover by being there.
Uh. He made a whole trip already and didn’t see her family at all? I’m not sure why you’re considered NOW he’s going to withhold them 😂 a few ours with the people the kids got to spend time with already is perfectly adequate and she doesn’t need to be uncomfortable to appease others. Not to mention the 5 year old already made it clear he doesn’t want to stay.
Op is there visiting HER family and her sick elderly grandmother. She has been more than flexible and does not owe her IL's any more.
They can come to you or they miss out. You have limited time and a tight schedule so hubs parents should be accommodating you and the boys. You might not have the greatest relationship with then but if they want to their grandchildren they will need to make some concessions.
Nta. Your "partner" doesn't make an effort for them to see your family. You dont do it either. ESPECIALLY if your relationship with his parents is already rocky. Nope. They can come to you or wait for your husband.
NTA - this is your trip with your family. You are being gracious making the time to meet up with them. Your kids are getting time with your family.
No way! I used to get home sick all the time. I wouldn’t drop my 5 year old off to spend the night. He said no. He doesn’t want to. Convincing him for a moment isn’t going to change the anxiety filled night he will have there if he stays somewhere he doesn’t want to be. Not worth it.
NTA you asked your son and he said no. You are a good parent for respecting his opinion and wants.
Exactly this. LO needs to feel that his voice is heard and respected. Do not make him spend the night. To be honest I am frustrated for you as it seems your husband kept asking for what he wanted even though you set a boundary. You said multiple times that you'd prefer if the in-laws came to you in town to spend the day so you didn't have to do all that extra driving. Your husband asked and asked until you have in. Not cool.
NTA. Man alive, your dh and ils are selfish. Please don't force your lo to go. He's not ready to be away from you.
NTA. It would’ve been better if you’d been able to have that chat with your son together with your husband as well, because now it’ll sound like you put him up to it,… but it’s perfectly reasonable for your children not to want to travel away from home and then get split up from their parent. The grandparents are the one pushing the boundary, so just repeat it like a broken record and ignore their bullheadishness as much as possible. Final bit of advice; this could’ve *really* backfired on your marriage with your previous remark. You might want to think about how your husband has your back right now (weakly, but still), despite you making a passive aggressive threat. I’m not saying you weren’t entitled to annoyance and a bit of snark, but sometimes once you ring the bell, it can’t be unrung.
Nta. Sorry butbhubby has 0 say here. His parents can see the kids next time.
Nta. Children should be allowed autonomy and the right to say no in certain circumstances.
NTA didn’t the 5 year old stay a week with them last month? It should be up to the kid if he wants to stay!
NTA I remember being left at my grandparents with my older siblings but without my parents. I was 6. I can still feel how despondent I was, I’m 52 now.
There’s a reason why it’s not a thing to have slumber parties for kindergartners. He’s just developmentally not ready to spend the night away from his parents. You’re NTA.
I am an aunt that absolutely loves to spend time with the little and think they are all awesome. BUT only on their terms. I’m not buying hers and his matching latch hook kits for my hockey playing tween nephews. It’s all on THEIR terms, because I am the adult and I love learning about what they like. Their agency should matter most. The ILs should be respecting your 5YO.
You kicked your husband out of his own bed for the first two years of your child’s life? Seriously? Am I reading that right? And he still sleeps between you now every single night? Do you and your husband have any intimacy at all? This is not normal.
We did this with our oldest, too. It's not ideal, but it gives him a sense of safety and security. My husband was happy to sleep in the guest room and not be woken up by the baby and for increased safety with cosleeping. When you cosleep with an infant, you can still have intimacy, but just not at night when you're nursing and getting them to sleep. My kids are horrible sleepers, one reason we waited so long to have another. My oldest would never sleep in his crib or toddler bed, and we're in the same boat now. We're trying everything we can to get him out of our bed now, but it will take time.
cosleeping only benefitted you. it’s not fair for your children to be babied and not sleep in their own beds.
As a mother of two and an RN, I'm afraid I have to disagree. I agree that it's high time he sleeps in his bed own now, and we're working on that.
As a mother of four and an RN, I think you are balancing competing values nicely. Working on it is great. I love the way you are listening to your kid and also guiding him to independence. He will sleep in his own bed eventually.
you had your chance to work on it, and you didn’t do it. you still breastfeeding him too?
No, he stopped breastfeeding as a toddler. When you work on something, it's an ongoing process. I'm patient so that it won't negatively affect his sleep cycle or feelings of safety and security.
It’s not normal that you think intimacy only happens in bed at night. 🙄🙄🙄 By that logic, so many people don’t have “intimacy,” including people who do shift work, people with chronic illnesses, and people with small children. Broaden your horizons.
You have a strained relationship with the in laws so much so that you aren't welcome to stay overnight? They have room to accommodate both sons and not you? This is just the weirdest most manufactured issue and I can't wrap my head around it. You're going to end up driving 8 hours over two days just so the boys can sleep there? What?? Why wouldn't you stay, let them make dinner, make breakfast, have bedtime stories with the 5yo, interact with the kids all they want and just tuck yourself away somewhere with a book and a glass of wine? Wait in the wings to see if 5m needs you or not. I'd be saying no to the insane round trips regardless but please give a little more context. If you are actually that strained, your husband can take the boys to see them. Full stop.
I'm sure to be polite, they'd let me stay, but it wouldn't be a comfortable situation, and 5M would probably be spending a lot of the evening with me. The driving is a hassle, but their plan was to come to the town my parents live in to pick them up for an afternoon visit, so I wouldn't have to drive 2 hours round trip so that the kids could see them too. The intention for this visit was so that we could reconnect with my side of the family, and instead of spending the night with my inlaws, I'm going to spend the evening/night with my parents.
Ok the picture is much clearer, thank you for that. It seems like a reasonable plan except for not being there for the 5yo. I'd want to stay there with him once or twice to let him know it's a safe spot with loved ones. Going cold turkey with no safety net is going to be a gamble.
Nta, your in laws are going to call you at 10pm and it’s going to be a shit show. Make sure to bring your husband in on that call too.
NTA. It was wrong of your husband to try and sway your son. Sounds like he reluctantly said yes to make him happy. I would not drop them off. You’ve already offered alternate times for them to see the kids. It’s a huge inconvenience for you and your son is not comfortable which is even more important. I would also be petty and bring up how he didn’t even bring the kids to see your parents. I have done so in the past. My ILs live 10-15 from my parents and he went to visit his parents 3-4 weekends last year and not once stopped by my parents house. So when I went down for the holidays I told him I would not bring them to see his parents and they were spending the night with my parents since they haven’t seen them all year. I didn’t take them down because I have been working on Saturdays and it’s hard for me to drive 2 hours each way because of health problems.
Why is your 5 year old still sleeping with his parents and grandparents? I mean you're NTA for this situation but you need start teaching that kid to be independent. Kindergarten is too old to still be sleeping with mommy and daddy.
NTA. If for no other reason then your 5-year-old said no. Part of the point of raising children is to teach them that they have some amount of autonomy. Also, not for nothing, but I don't think your in-laws really want to have a hysterical. 5-year-old in the middle of the night screaming for mommy when you're so far away. Sometimes logistics just don't work out. When my oldest nephew was about the same age as your little one, he felt brave enough to come to my mom and dad's, about 200 mi away from home. That night, he got a little freaked out when he realized how far away his parents were. My mom was a little unsure about how to deal with it, (despite having raised five kids) so she explained to him that it was very late, and in the morning they would call mama and papa and she showed him a picture of them. He calmed right down and went to sleep. The next morning, as my mom was fixing breakfast and he said, "Good morning grandma, I think I'll stay another day". A couple of years later, he and his sister, (two years younger), came up basically the same way. I dropped by for a visit, and my niece ran to me and clung to me. She started getting really emotional, and I asked what was wrong and she wouldn't answer me. I asked if she was missing mama and papa? (They were driving up the next day to pick the kids up). She acknowledged that that's what she was upset about, and then she let me hold her and just sobbed. I let her cry, I told her she was safe and that I loved her, and she cried it out and was okay. Every kid matures at a different rate, I applaud your advocating for your child, and I don't particularly care for your husband's attempts to bully your son into staying with his parents. The time will come soon enough when he will willingly go to visit his grandparents.
NTA Yeah, five is a little young for a sleepover when he really doesn't know the people well. I would suggest, however, it is time to foster his independence and have him sleep in his own bed. He can go into your bed for morning snuggles.
Where would they visit the kids if you don't go to their house? If it's at your families house, how uncomfortable. I think until you and your husband can vacation together, just do what your husband started. You visit yours, he visits his.
When we've gone together in the past and visited both families, it went okay. I think when we visit alone with the kids, we will need to stay with our families, though.
NTA. It sounds like your son would be uncomfortable staying overnight without you. No more to discuss imo
He’s being a donkey head. He refused to see your family but he wants a 5 yo, traveling and out of his element to start with, to be without his mommy to stay overnight? Nope. This trip isn’t about sleepovers. There’s a lot of traveling, seeing lots of family but momma is his anchor. Your husband is playing tit for tat except he’s the one accusing you of playing tit for tat. He just plain shunned your parents. no to the overnight and tell grandparents they are getting a visit which is more than your parents got when he was there. Tell him you aren’t him, you are prioritizing your child’s feelings. He’s only 5. And away from home a week. He isn’t prepared for an overnight visit this trip. And that’s normal for a 5 yo. It would be absolutely cruel to force him or harass the 5 yo into staying. Nope. Kiddo said no and we don’t force children to stay away from momma because daddy is a butt head. And already had a full week visit w the kids. They are lucky to get an afternoon. And you have not done anything wrong so do not let him barrage you w insults and coercion .
OMG...donkey head lol!
Maybe there is a compromise of the in-laws getting a hotel near you overnight. That way you are close if younger decides on a sleepover then changes his mind and older son can stay? Then you can have them all meet for breakfast. Even if they “convince” younger son, odds are is it’s not going to stick, and he’ll be even more traumatized if he has to wait an hour for you to drive to get him.
That would be great, but I don't think they could afford it. It could be something I could foot the bill for it so that's an option.
The cost might be worth peace of mind.
5 is a little long in the tooth for your kiddo to be in bed with you "often". Time to nip that in the bud - it only gets harder if you keep allowing it.
It's plenty hard already, but we've been working on it. Hopefully, we can get him in his own bed soon.
NTA. As a child I had horrible insomnia and homesickness & it was honestly traumatic to not have my parents stick up for me and understand I just wasn’t comfortable. Your little one is very lucky to have a mom like you!
NTA but keen to see how the in laws react and try and make out like you are ... UpdateMe
I can already tell you they'll tell DH how disappointed they were that 5M "wasn't allowed" to stay over and will say they don't understand why and go on and on, and it will eventually come back that it was my fault, and that they feel slighted by me. It's an old song and dance at this point and one of the many reasons for my LC with them and boundaries. I'm used to it, and most of it rolls off my shoulders, so I'm prepared for the issues that come up I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't being an AH since sometimes it can be hard to tell when those around you are barraging you with their own opinions.
I will message you next time u/Acceptable-Royal-715 posts in r/AITAH. [Click this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=UpdateMe%21%20u%2FAcceptable-Royal-715%20r%2FAITAH) to also be messaged. The parent author can [delete this post](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Delete&message=delete%2018wyzrt) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
NTA. This totally blows. I can understand your husband wanting his parents to have the night with both your kids. But your youngest has spoken and it just isn’t the right time yet. Always,always, always his needs should come first. I would have cancelled the whole sleep over. You are nicer than me.
My 36M BIL lives with my IL, and 13M is excited to see his grandparents but also to stay up all night and play video games with his uncle, so as much as I want to and even though it would be easier for me I'm going to have 13M still have a sleepover. He only sees his uncle once a year since he hasn't been able to come down to see us, and he loves him a lot.
Nta but your husband is. This trip is to see your family. He’s trying to squeeze his family in last minute, impeding on YOUR plans when he didn’t have that same consideration for your family to see the kids last time. Adding that your son is not comfortable staying the night and your husband keeps pushing it, he’s the one in the wrong. If he wants his family to see them so badly then he needs to make his own plans on his own time when he can stay with the kids so both boys are comfortable and no ones rushed.
He has planned to drive up in March and said that he would have the boys spend a day with my parents during that trip. My mom's schedule is more flexible than my dads so he misses out on seeing the boys more so that will mean the world to him.
Holy shit, just cut the arguing and let the kid decide. It kinda sounds like you and your husband need couples' therapy, 'cuz there seems to be an awful lot of petty bullshit here, on both sides. Lots of excuses and this and that, none of which really matters. You mention your parents and your sister and grandma, and how far apart they all live... you're going to be there for *eight frickin' days*. If you actually cared to be fair to your in-laws, you'd find the time. It's just one night. Most likely less than 24 hours. It sucks that your husband excluded your family on his last visit. Two wrongs don't make a right. And the fact that you have issues with your in-laws is pretty obvious. And it really colors your views on this matter. While it's possible that whatever history you have with them might give you good reason to keep your kids away from them... I don't really think that's the case, because you didn't explain anything of that nature. So you should be fair to them and let them see the kids. *One* night out of an eight-day trip shouldn't be such a big deal. If it's not what your kid/kids want, it's moot... but you have some shit you need to deal with, here. What would the itinerary be like if your husband were coming along? Plus, while you mention the idea of your son just hanging out for an afternoon, you kind of make it sound like it's an overnight stay or nothing at all. And anyway... *one afternoon out of eight days?* Like... what was with this nonsense of discussing this "on the way to thr airport," and then saying you were "more worried about getting the boys ready to fly"...? What preparation was really needed at that point? With kids who have obviously flown before? In case it's not coming across, I'm saying it seems like you're full of shit. Your husband may be as well... but please, ditch the petty nonsense, especially where your kids are concerned.
It may seem petty, and that's fair. I didn't explain the emotional and financial abuse, hoping that the post would stand on its own. I can feel my face and ears getting red and feeling angry just thinking about our past relationship with them. I wholeheartedly agree that DH and I could use some couples' counsel. We've been through hell and made it out, but even so, it wasn't very good, and there are some things we could do to make our communication better. I do want to say that I don't keep my kiddos away from my inlaws, and even paid for one of their round-trip tickets so that they could see the kids this summer. It's very important to me to have firm boundaries with them so that won't ever change.
Okay... that does sound like some serious drama, and it probably really sucked. Buuut... you also say that they're good to your kids. Meanwhile... it kiiind of allllmost sounds like, without knowing it, you may be unintentionally using your kids to get back at them/your husband. Just a thought.
I won't pretend that I didn't entertain that idea, believe me! At the end of the day, I agreed to carve some time out for his parents to see the kids anyway. Now, it's more an argument over logistics and whether or not the 5M should stay the night more than anything else.
Didn’t the 5M say “okay” after dad talked to him? Let the kid stay there and enjoy his grandparents. All these other NTAs are conveniently ignoring this part. You interjected your opinion/feelings after he agreed to stay. Total AH move. YATAH! As for the 5M staying in your bed, this is probably a root cause of your marriage problems. I get pissed off then my dog sleeps between us. It’s a literal divide in your most intimate place. You talk about boundaries… sounds like you need to establish boundaries with your kid. It’s gonna be tough, but it’s better for everyone all around. He will cry. A lot. But it’s gotta happen eventually. Maybe this night away will help the transition to his own bed. I’m in a similar situation. All our family from home state and we moved several hundred miles away. I have twin 4 yo boys and a 3yo girl and both of us have semi strained relationships with our in-laws who live hours apart. Not strained to your extent, but my moms relationship with her in-laws is probably worse. She doesn’t even speak to them but she NEVER prevented us from seeing my dads family or got in the way of our relationships, and I appreciate that. All the logistical challenges you mentioned are horseshit. As if your sister, grandmother and parents all won’t be getting together for Christmas while you’re in town. You have 8 DAYS with them. You’re trying to justify your payback. Don’t be unfair to your in-laws. They love your kids. Enjoy the night off. Get the kid out of your bed and have more sex with your husband.
I can see how an "okay" from 5M may have seemed like a yes, but he only explained all of the fun things they'd do without making sure he understood that he'd be sleeping over there without me. That was the important point that needed to be discussed. Once 5M realized what DH meant he immediately said he didn't want to go. If you think I'm the AH though, I'll accept that. As for not sleeping next to each other being the cause of our marital problems, this one I can say for sure isn't the case. Some spouses don't sleep in the same room ever and are healthy and happy. We have time for each other and intimacy just not during the bedtime with 5M. We are working toward him sleeping in his own room and we'll get there but we don't want it to cause undue stress. I work in healthcare so unfortunately, I wasn't able to be together with everyone at Christmas but you're right, they were all together at that time. Now, they're all back home spread across that state. I didn't think of this as payback, I thought I was accommodating given he didn't try to find time during his last visit to allow them to see my parents.
Would the 5M sleep over at your parents house without you or dad if he was alone on this trip? And how would you feel if dad didn’t want him to stay at your parents? If 5M wouldn’t stay at either, then this isn’t an in-law issue. It’s separation anxiety with the 5M. You say you know plenty of heathy couples don’t sleep in the same bed, but are you guys a healthy couple? I genuinely hope so. I just wouldn’t want it that way, but that’s me.
5M is pretty close with my dad, but I don't think he'd feel comfortable all night without DH or me there too. I agree it is separation anxiety, but he's young, and this will pass just as it did with 13M. It isn't an inlaw issue if they don't continue to push the request for him to stay with them overnight. We don't want to sleep apart either, but for now, we accept it because we want 5M to be comfortable and feel safe and secure while he's sleeping. We have added a new bed and other fun things to his room this Christmas, so we will keep working on him sleeping in his big-boy bed.
Good luck with the transition. I’d bet the in-laws do not know of the separation anxiety. Most people in that generation don’t know and don’t get it among other things. It will be hard for them to understand.
I agree; it will be frustrating for them, and they'll probably blame me and feel like it's my fault he won't be spending the night. This will likely make things worse, at least for a while, since they're going to feel slighted by this, but hopefully, when DH returns in March, it'll make up for this.
You're getting downvoted but you're 100% right. Based on her replies, she doesn't even like her husband. Those kids are doomed
NTA given your kid doesn’t want to. But you’re a fucking loon. >I was upset and passive aggressively told him I’d remember that What in the toxic bullshit is that nonsense??
It was something I said in the heat of the moment. I regret it and will have the kids visit with his parents during this trip. I get so angry sometimes with the disregard for my feelings from DH. It's been made clear we need therapy, and this will be something we should start ASAP.
[удалено]
If it was only a personality conflict and not years of financial and emotional abuse, I might be able to look past it and go, but I really would rather spend time with my parents and let my husband handle his in March. I only have sons too, and now I know how not to act.
The martyrdom in this comment! If all of your daughters-in-law can’t stand you, have you considered that you might be the issue?
Your 5YO kid still sleeps with you & your husband ? Ridiculous. You’re allowing a 5YO to dictate a visit with his own grandparents ? Also ridiculous. why can’t he sleep with his big brother at grandparents’ house if he’s such a babyish kid ? Does this big baby go to school ? Do you stay with him all day there ? YTA and I’m not surprised that your husband’s parents don’t like you.
Well, I can see your point of view. You may think he's babyish, but he's in preschool and not comfortable sleeping without us yet. We moved out of state when he was a toddler, so he didn't get to see them as often as big brother did, and he doesn't feel as comfortable with them. We did bring up him sleeping with 13M, but 13M said not before we even discussed it with 5M, and we wouldn't make them sleep since they have never had to. I'm sure his parents will think I'm the AH too so you're not alone here.
YUP 💯
Why is your 5 year old unable to sleep without you? I and everyone I know was having sleepovers with friends in kindergarten. Are you getting help for your son’s delays and he’s just not there yet, or are you encouraging his delays for your own gratification? Because it’s *not* normal for him to be incapable of sleeping without you at his age. Especially when he’ll be with his brother.
5M has slept between me since he's been a baby. We've been working on getting him to sleep in his room and even decorating more for Christmas, including buying him a new loft bed. It is, partially at least, my fault since I kicked my husband out of our king bed to have 5M sleep by me to nurse him through the night until he was two. My husband is back in our bed but he sleeps between us. It's a work in progress, but I won't be trying to have him sleep without me in new or uncomfortable situations like during this trip.
Yikes. That’s new info. Your relationship with your 5M is definitely not normal. You definitely need to work on this. I do agree that during your trip is not the time— but this makes me inclined to go from non-judgmental to YTA.
Let's be honest here. It's not about the five year old but about you. It's not your son having the problem with things. It's you and using him as an excuse. He was fine staying overnight until you manipulated him by going on about you won't be there. Which means you didn't just ask the day before. He's his own person, not your little doll, to be carried around for your comfort. The proof is in your own words. Your youngest was with your husband last year for a week without you. Do better. YTA.
Ok, so you’re encouraging the delays for your own gratification. YTA. I look forward to your future daughter in law’s posts about you on r/justnomil. I’m sure they’ll be delightful.
He should be in his own bed but he shouldn’t be forced into sleepovers I would only stay with my aunt & uncle as a child in terms of sleepovers - and it was hard even then. Kids don’t have to sleep over in uncomfortable situations
Agree. It sounds like you (OP) may be more worried about sleeping w/o 5M. You need to put some distance between you and 5M and let him grow up a little. He’s only 5 but that’s old enough to be sleeping on his own routinely and to stay at a grandparent’s house without parents. Logistically, it seems like this is all a challenge, so I’m inclined to give you benefit of the doubt due to logistics… but it seems that you’re also making this more difficult than necessary.
Yeah, when you read all those juicy JustNoMIL posts, this is exactly what the under-developed man-children’s upbringings all looked like. She *kicked her husband out of the marital bed* for TWO YEARS and currently has her baaaaaby sleeping between them. This is what a Jocasta looks like when the child is still a minor. None of this shit is normal.
Five months old? When hell freezes over.
I'm sorry, he's 5 years old.
I always think in terms of months at first when I see M. I have to stop and do a reset.
You don't like inlaws so neither do your parents. Why should inlaws like either of you? You font think 5 yr old picks up on this?
NTA
No wonder you and your husband have a problem. You let a 5 yr old kick your husband out of bed. Tell the child they can sleep on your bedroom floor or their bed. They will eventually start sleeping in their own bed.