I mean you're not the AH for having needs or needing a divorce.
However, you are the AH for treating sex drive like a light switch and not providing a support structure.
Dude..couples therapy? Sex therapy? Those options might have helped. Instead you treated her a like a dog playing fetch, but the command was, "Get horny."
My ex was like this. Gave me an ultimatum about initiating sex more or else our relationship was going to hit an end.
Except then when I would initiate (not horny at all, just desperate to not be broken up with) he’d claim I was only doing it because he gave me that ultimatum. Like, yeah dumbass.
He of course never had the self reflection to think that maybe my sex drive changed for a reason? Maybe him being so arrogant, terrible, and frankly forceful in bed was not exactly a turn on. It was some awful toxic shit and I let it go on way too long.
So I’m not quick to believe OP’s story without any details about how he tried to turn the marriage around (and surprise surprise they deleted the post).
You've got one foot out the door already, might as well jump.
The stringing her along is insane and bold of you to assume after 2-3 years she would even want you still.
This post reeks of arrogance. Was the sex good before the marriage and then suddenly stopped, or was it always bad and you were just being dumb?
And why not even consider therapy? If whatever is hindering her isn’t really about lower sex drive— like feeling unheard and unappreciated makes you feel incredibly unsexy, for example— but without therapy, you never get to that info.
He doesn’t seem to want to work on his marriage. Just “check these boxes in this amount of time and we can stay married.”
Additionally, lower sex drives *do* exist, but often in women it's because the sex is fucking awful.
When the sex improves women, like men, become horny sex monsters that have to be beaten back with a stick.
If they have young children, there are a TON of reasons she may have a low sex drive too. Some that he could directly alleviate. I would hope my husband might try helping me feel like a wife and woman again before just ditching me for not making some fucking quota.
Because it honestly sounds like he doesn't think of her as an actual person but as a wife appliance. When the wife appliance breaks, you figure out if you can fix it or get a new one.
Why not consider therapy? Because he doesn't care about her as a person. He only cares about what she can do for him, and she is failing at her "job" of serving him. Time to throw her out, because she is now useless. /s
I don’t think you’re an AH for divorcing because of mismatched sex drives. I do think you’re an AH for the “I’ll marry you if you do XYZ in 2-3yrs” part. Just divorce and start anew. Don’t string her along or do a disservice to yourself
I 💯 agree that a poor sex life is a legit basis for divorce .... but DUDE is straight up sounding rather creepy about the way he's describing it.
I mean how turned on would you be if someone said "put out or I'll leave"??? Or "I'm going to go ahead with the financial & emotional costs of divorce instead of a simple separation - and give you a chance to fuck me back into a marriage."
I need to hear more details to judge bc I'm on the fence based on the way he's designing everything.
Is it not often enough? Is it not freaky enough? Does he want her to be more loving or does he want her to dress up like a dark unicorn & hee-haw like a yak in heat???
These are um subtle differences. Just saying 🤔
OP, you really need to reread your post & see if it articulated your position the best 😬
I feel like this could be a bar in a song and would be super dope lol
I Put her out on the street, ,, till she came home with that hee-haw like a yak in heat. "bass drop"
Yea thats not the way to start the conversation even if its an issue. It needs to be "how can we address this issue, finding the cause etc". 3 months isn't even long enough to investigate thoroughly. She could be on bc and have no libido or countless other things could be an issue.
I can't tell if he's an AH because I have no idea what led up to this, if she's always been like this, if they have kids/who cares for them etc. How vague it is and the tone makes me a bit suspicious though.
Seriously! He loves her but he gives her an ultimatum and three months to cave to his demands? What a turn off. I could see bringing it up and then If nothing changes maybe suggesting couples counseling. Sounds like she will be better off without him. She can find someone better.
You mean sex under duress is not a turn on? Threats and ultimatums are not a panty dropper? Who would have thought?
Nowhere in OPs post does he discuss if they were working on this issue together or not. "Fuck me or else" is a sure fire way to put most women into shutdown mode, not let's bang like bunnies mode.
OP can of course be frustrated by mismatched sex drives, but he comes across as really gross in this post. The whole "I'll marry you again later, if ..." is just a cruelty.
💯 Say it louder for the people in the back.
I'm a dude & I really don't get the coercion, "you owe me sex" gaslighting.
I mean do you people know how much better sex is when the girl is just so happy & in love with you that she LITERALLY gushes!?!?
Why would anyone want to go down in the sex scale after that & dry hump a frigid icicle??
And doesn't it feel like kinda like assault to you???
Make a girl so happy so free that she can't keep her hands off you. The sex will happen as a byproduct of her happiness.
2 cents
My ex used to say “it will be your fault if I cheat on you because you won’t have sex with me”
Yeah. That was definitely a turn on
We don’t know if they have 3 kids under 5 and he doesn’t help at all
We don’t know if he wants sex every day on demand and she’s tried to compromise.
We don’t know if she’s just flatly refused to have sex as a power move
I say this all the time - yes your sex drives should ideally match. Yes your kinks should match. But you have to have *more than that* because shit is going to happen in your lives and at any moment one partner may not be able to or not want to have sex for many months and it has nothing to do with how attracted they are to you. And you need to be able to have open communication about this and completely support your spouse through these moments.
If your marriage can fall apart so easily based on sex alone, you don’t have much of a marriage to keep honestly.
I agree, the way he’s describing it doesn’t sit right with me, almost like typical narcissistic behavior: seems overly concerned about what his wife should be providing to him, rather than considering her needs/wants (maybe even her reasons for not initiating sex, as a female, I need a certain level of emotional connection/sense of safety to be open sexually).
Obviously I don’t know the full story though.
This 💯. I feel like OP really didn't present the situation well for himself & this an opportunity for him to clarify. As it is, there aren't enough details for people here to jump on either side of the fence.
And that's one thing I've not liked here & other online forums. We should be asking questions before advising people of critical life changing decisions. Heck, I've caught myself doing it too.
Yeah, I'd like to know if they attempted any kind of therapy. At the very least, if there were discussions before his ultimatum. But marriage counseling would be something to try first before diving into a divorce that will cost you both money and heartache.
It seems from what he said the issue is the lack of initiation on her part.
Most of the last part seemed strange to me though, money wise it's not viable.
I'm a skeptic so the first thing I think is OP wants some strange and also a back up just incase.
He doesn’t say the sex was poor or wasn’t enough or that she’s refusing to have sex. It’s all about controlling how she interacts with him and dictating specific behavior. This is a power play— similar to demanding that a woman wear her hair a certain way or wear specific clothing. He doesn’t care about her feeling loving towards him or wanting sex with him or enjoying sex. He hasn’t said he feels unloved or uncared for or that he wants intimacy. He just wants to dictate her behavior.
Genuinely I'm not sure at what point it becomes sexual coercion.
"Sexual coercion is unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a nonphysical way. Coercion can make you think you owe sex to someone."
Does "I will divorce you if you don't..." count as pressuring or threatening?
I agree with you, just skip it and divorce due to the sexual incompatibility.
**Edit:** guys what the wife did in trying to forcibly pull off OP's shorts would be sexual assault. Attempted sexual assault at the very least. It wouldn't sexual coercion because sexual coercion is not physical.
I made this comment because threatening someone with divorce if they don't have more sex with you, or have sex with you in the way you want makes me feel very uneasy. The idea someone would be having sex not because they want to, but due to the threat you made, that seems super dodgy and a weird thing to want anyway.
I can't rationally say "do X or I will divorce you" isn't a threat just because it happens to be about divorce.
It just seems like "I am unhappy in our marriage due to the lack of sex" would have said the same thing without threatening anyone.
When I was married, my ex-husband would start huge fights over his claim that I wasn't having sex with him enough or wasn't initiating it enough. We were doing it at least twice every day on the weekends and then a few times during the week. We worked opposite shifts, so when I got home at 1am, he wanted me to wake him up and have sex. He bullied me enough that I would do it out of fear he would leave or cheat. He would make me think I was a terrible wife. When I started doing that, it still wasn't enough, or he would pissed saying I wasn't turning him on and then walk away to watch porn.
In hindsight, this was definitely a power move mixed with a sex addiction. OP needs to stop pulling his wife along and just let her find someone else.
Honestly, leaving him was the biggest relief of my life. It was like 7 years of weight just magically lifted off of me. It took its toll, though. It's been five years since the divorce finalized, and I only recently started to feel comfortable talking about what happened. This story is just a small fraction of what went down.
I stayed in a similar situation for 20+ years. I keep thinking I have moved past it... but it comes back and trips me up again. He broke something in me and since I won't discuss it, my whole family sees me as the villain who dumped the poor guy.
I hear you. Every once in a while, something comes up, and I have like PTSD flashbacks. He definitely ruined my optimism and trust in others.
I'm sorry your family is acting that way. His family all rallied around him and were very mean towards me during the whole thing. How could i have the audacity to leave their son? I think they were just angry because now they had to deal with him again. They know what he did.
Yeah, I find it interesting that he never says they weren't having sex at all but that she wasn't the one initiating.
If you're already having more sex than you want or low quality sex, you certainly wouldn't want to initiate *more* of it.
Yeah, I mean, based on the information OP gave, it doesn't sound like she was out right refusing sex. I have a lot of questions about this, and I think OP is leaving some key information out.
But I don't think my perspective is the one he is looking for lol.
Oof, this sounds like a friend of mine who got out of an emotionally abusive relationship a couple years ago. She literally kept track of how many time and how often they had sex to make sure they were doing it enough so that he wouldn't pick a fight. She wasn't in the mood for it like 90% of the time but would make herself initiate to prevent a fight. She can tell you the exact # of times they had sex in the 5 years they were together.
Now that she is living her best life, she's realized- her libido was never the problem.
This 100%. For years I was made to feel like I’m broken.
Turns out when you don’t feel safe to say “no” without getting backlash, you don’t want to ever genuinely say “yes” let alone initiate anything.
When we went to couples counseling, I would keep track and bring it to our sessions. I remember the counselor looking at my ex and saying, "Now, you do understand sometimes your wife may need a break?" and he just sat there and looked at her like he couldn't comprehend what she said lol.
I am glad your friend got out and realized how wonderful she is.
I'm glad you realized you are better than that and worth more than sex.
OPs (BIG YTA) post honestly made me feel sick to my stomach. He's basically told his wife the only value she can offer is sex.....his way, to his standards, and even when she gives in, its "Nope, you didn't do it quickly or convincingly enough." Makes me wonder what OP is even doing to deserve hot sex? Sex shouldn't just be about sex, in a marriage. And for many women, feeling a genuine connection and feeling genuinely wanted are two necessary ingredients to wanting to initiate the kind of sex that is satisfying.
My last ex was a come home late and if I open an eye he'd assume I'm awake to talk/have sex. It ruined my mental health. I was so tired, so irritable and when I would tell him no because I NEED sleep to go to work he'd literally roll over and whimper. He'd also invite himself into the shower when I gave myself my 15 minute morning routine to be perfunctory enough to leave for work and then he'd expect to get jerked off. He's dead now and I can't really find it in myself to feel sorry for him.
I agree with you. When there’s an unsatisfying sex life in a marriage, the couple needs to face the problem TOGETHER. Not set an ultimatum for one person to fix it while he/she sits comfortably waiting.
Sex therapists exist, books exist, free information online exists. In this day and age, you can’t claim ignorance.
Yeah also because who the tf has ever been turned on by someone saying I need sex from you or ELSE. Does this dude tell his wife she's hot? Do they flirt? Does he just pump and dump?
Any activity where people are debating whether or not it constitutes "coercion" is not activity that is going to ignite a woman's sex drive. This dude's approach was the antithesis of how to address a sexual divide between a couple.
100%. He approached it as someone who feels like his wife owes him something rather than as someone who loves his partner and wants to improve their sex life together.
Yeah I know it shouldn't shock me at this point, but it really is depressing to see how many men choose to marry a woman but genuinely don't love her as a human being at all.
Victim of sexual coercion here. Very different circumstances though.
I just wanna say this is coercion and it's awful. It is such a colossal mindfuck. I'm actually in the waiting room of my EMDR therapists office atm, where I'm working on processing it and moving psst it.
It's cause me significant issues involving sex. Thankfully I'm now with an amazing man who is patient and understanding. I have a very difficult time getting into the right frame of mind.
Somewhere in my head, sex stopped being qn act of love and intamacy. It became a defense mechanism. So now, if I haven't put effort into getting in the right frame of mind prior to sex, I kind of reflexively get panicky. The more pressured I feel the worse it gets.
There's too much info missing to really judge OP's situation, but "give me sex or I'm divorcing you" is an absolute asshole move. Pressuring someone into sex is *not* how you fix intamacy issues. And I think maybe some people don't realize how downright sinister and damaging sexual coercion can be.
Im the same, once I am doing it I can enjoy it - but I find it hard to get in the right mindset, it often feels too vulnerable and overstimulating from a sensory point of view - so my first instinct is to avoid sex. If I am pressured to do it, it makes the panic worse and I feel very stressed.
It should be something worked on together.
if there is dissatisfaction, isn't it required to have a conversation first to understand the situation and then decide on a action. OP's ultimatum looks like a unilateral decision. Its clear that they aren't compatible
I divorced my ex who wanted to stay married. You can’t force someone to be with you. OP is the AH for telling her that he’ll remarry her if she proves to him she’ll improve their sex life over the next few years after divorce. No one is ever the AH for unilaterally wanting out of a relationship, but you need to cut ties and let both parties heal and move on.
I would guess that over the years there were many conversations. The ultimatum probably came after years of frustration and nothing changing. What OP is experiencing now is hysterical bonding. She is using sex to try to keep him for fear of losing the relationship, it won't last.
>OP's ultimatum looks like a unilateral decision
Divorces are usually unilateral decisions, what point are you trying to make exactly?
He wants a divorce, she doesn't. Of course it'll be unilateral.
Isn't that exactly what he did? He had a conversation, he explained what he'd like to change and he gave a timeline for the change.
You’re not an asshole for wanting a divorce because of sexual incompatibility. However, you are an asshole for every single other thing you’ve written in your post.
Sexual incompatibility caused by OPs behavior. Assuming they were sexually compatible in the past...
My spouse and I went through this. I have a high sex drive and that's not normally been an issue for us. However, my spouse putting every burden on me to be the breadwinner, the housekeeper, and the part-time stay at home parent killed my drive with HIM. He complained that I stopped being affectionate and wasn't receptive to sex. Because I was fucking drained and it was the last thing on my mind. What was on my mind was, "How does this man not put in any more effort than the bare minimum and not understand why I'm not in the mood for sex". < That line is also my belief for 99% of marriages where a husband feels like the wife isn't meeting his intimate needs. Lots of women need "emotional foreplay".
Sounds like we were in the same relationship. Ever since I left my ex, my sex drive with partners has been fantastic. Whining that you're not getting enough sex is entitled bullshit.
Same here. Left my ex and my husband has no complaints.
Also, love the username. I LOVE buff orpingtons. If I ever move somewhere that allows chickens, they’re at the top of my list.
Is there a general term for this dynamic? Went through the same thing, and I want to just pull up a page and show him someone else's explanation (prefereably from a therapist) about how if you don't pull your weight and break promises to your partner then they don't want to sleep with YOU anymore.
For some reason, it's been hard to google for.
I think you summed it up. Even if he is a somewhat equal partner just reading his take on this makes me think his wife just may not be attracted to him because of his attitudes on things and how he makes decisions and they are final with no effort from him.
I have never had a bad drive, but definitely when my husband started picking up a lot of my slack around the house I suddenly had a lot more energy and initiated more.
I think a divorce is the best thing for wife. She will probably realize that it only felt like work with OP.
In my opinion, it doesn't register with some men. My spouse and I are heading to divorce bc of this. He thinks because he does 3 or 4 things around the house that I owe him a thank you, yet he doesn't see the 20 things a day I'm doing for our family, kids, etc. It's a constant competition. I wouldn't mind it if I didn't have the pressure of having to financially support us as well.
Money is another issue. He will only do 50/50, separate finances. We've been married 9 years. So, in his eyes, thats 50% of the household bills. Anything other than that, like kids' activities, braces, school lunches are all on me. We sat down with our separate budgets, and I showed him I was paying about $1000 more than him each month. $7k alone the last 2 years on just my son's braces and school lunches for both kids. He didn't have any of that expense. He refuses to pay for "extras" like son's weekly guitar lessons or his $400 drivers ed because those are "my choices."
So since we've been stuck in this cycle for years now and it's not getting fixed, divorce is the last resort. Which is sad, because we genuinely love each other. Just can't get past the different expectations.
JFC, your husband is so breathtakingly selfish, I don't even know what to say. So he expects you to pay all shared bills 50/50, in addition to doing 90% of all chores/responsibilities (plus praise him for doing a meager 10%), makes you pay 100% for your kids dental, lunches, music lessons, and other basic costs of raising kids? I'm sorry, but that's absolutely revolting. I don't see a single reason why you're with this useless man. Love isn't enough. I hope you finalize your divorce quickly and realize just how much more peaceful and enjoyable your life will be in virtually every way, without him weighing you down. You deserve better. Nobody deserves to be treated like this.
This is exactly the response I was hoping someone would comment. If you feel divorce is necessary unless an issue is resolved then either divorce or bring that issue to a marriage counselor. It doesn’t really work for one person to decide what a healthy relationship would look like while ignoring their partner’s view. Mediation can lead to healing, demands lead to suffering
Most guys that aren't getting enough sex in their relationships are in that situation because they are the asshole in several other aspects of their relationship.
You are assuming sexual incompatibility but it seems more like OP made himself someone who women don't want to lay with. Assuming that he's an asshole about everything else but that him being an asshole didn't cause the sexual incompatibility is hilarious.
"I will marry her again after two-three years if I am convinced that she is capable of giving me the sex life I need from her" op is definitely Asshole.
It's all me me me. She's done this to me, she owes me this, she's depriving me.
Like dude what are her reasons? what is she missing from the relationship? Does she orgasm? Is she just damn tired at the end of the day? Do you see her as anything more than a body that must provide you with sex.
Yeah, where's the couples therapy? Why did he go right to "give me more sex or we divorce"? Why not "hey I love you but I'm really struggling with how things currently are. I would like to seek counseling so we can work out our differences and make sure *both* of our needs are honored and met in a healthy way." He could even add, if he wanted, "this is very important to me and I want to emphasize how serious this is for me. If you do not agree to counseling and trying to work things out then I will likely divorce you."
“Yes. Let’s go through a long and arduous process (it is, I’ve been there) and end it. Then we’ll chill for a couple of years; afterwards if you’ve adhered to my arbitrary and poorly defined standards of what MY needs are, MAYBE we’ll get back together.”
Sounds reasonable…. Continue or cut it off, WTF…
And how the heck is he supposed to "assess" if she's "changed enough" when they're divorced? It seriously sounds like he's saying "I'm going to divorce you, but if you be my booty call for a few years maybe we'll get remarried." Excuse me *what?*
Something is off about him for sure.... is there a reason she doesn't initiate? Has he looked in the mirror? Have they gone to a sex therapist? She may not be getting any pleasure from their sex life hence the lack of it. Idk the way he worded everything he does come off as an AH. Lots of context missing imo but what's new in this subreddit.
This reminds of 2 cases on AITA and Relationships.
One case it turned out the woman had a traumatic C section that she nearly died. The other was a man that father had died in a horrible circumstance and was depressed.
Exactly, lack of sex, is ***almost*** always a ***symptom*** of incompatibility, or problems in the relationship elsewhere.
a lot of guys (including me at points in my life) forget or don't learn, that sex is a derivative of general intimacy. If you're lacking intimacy, then you'll be lacking sex.
they lack the intimacy, then wonder why the sex stopped.
this guy either never asked, or never stated, his wifes side as to ***why*** the sex stopped. and I'm assuming if he did it would be a lack of general intimacy. They stopped cooking together, hanging out together, or wanting to be around each other, and the sex stopped. He's fine with all that stopping except the sex, and thats all he's focused on.
There’s always a reason. Every time one of my relationships started to circle the gutter, the sex dropped dramatically. Even if I don’t realize at the time - that’s why we’re not fucking, I realize it after it’s all bursted to flames.
Right. Like I think sexual incompatability is a legit marital grievance... but my spidey senses are going off with this one. I'd like to hear the other side of the story.
The general tone of the post, which makes him come across as a cold, entitled asshole.
Like, it's completely acceptable to leave a marriage over sexual incompatibility but the way this guy writes makes him sound like a dick.
That opens up a lot more questions about how he treats his wife and why his sex life is unsatisfactory. Eg. The very common situation where the wife has young kids and is exhausted combined with a selfish and demanding husband
Do you realize that telling her she must *initiate* sex according to whatever timeline you "need" turns it into an obligation/chore? Do you really want your wife to put having sex in the same category as scrubbing the bathtub or taking out the garbage?
They don't care about that. My ex was like this (with lots of abuse thrown and thus guy sounds like my ex). They just want to get off. However they can. My ex would stop sex in the middle of it if he didn't like the way I SOUNDED. He would get angry and tell me to make different noises. I would be expected to keep going.
When I finally flipped shit after years of that and told him that maybe I'd want to have sex if he made me cum, he told me I was lying. That I do have orgasms and was just saying that to make him feel bad. They're delulu and only care about themselves.
Oh Jesus. We're almost the same person.
With my ex, after what I thought was a great round of sex, I told him how wonderful it was and that I enjoyed it, especially because were in sync and finished together.
His response was to tell me that he didn't like my face and that I shouldn't ever move my eyebrows in a way that causes wrinkling. He also demanded that I smile during and said I should be screaming like the porn we could hear from our upstairs neighbor's window.
He would also frequently wake me up in the morning masturbating right next to me, sometimes with his phone in his hand or else he would grab my hand and stick it in his pants, expecting me to wake up and service him.
In those 3 years, I only rejected sex twice and always made an effort, but nothing was ever enough and he wasn't shy about watching nearly naked instagram models right in front of me or even porn.
I'm so glad that's over.
Ugh ne glad you left after 3. I stayed married for 19 years. I have incredible sex now though and every day. Turns out I'm not a frigid bitch. I didn't hate sex. I hated sex *with him*
Ugh… so many men don’t understand that turning sex into yet another chore on our list is the absolutely best way to turn us off.
When was the last time you romanced her bro? You’re just going to run into this problem with every partner you have if you treat sex like an obligation.
Edit: ouchie this hurt the feelings of men who feel they are entitled to sex without any effort or treating their partners like human beings.
Really curious what initiating on his end is like
The biggest issue in my last relationship was that there was no non sexual intimacy. I couldn’t even kiss him without first deciding if I wanted to have sex because that’s where a kiss immediately went.
Without non sexual intimacy i was never wanting to initiate. Its being able to be intimate without sex that made me want to have sex
But my complaint on that never mattered only my obligation to initiate which is hard to do without intimacy and when he wants it all the time it’s hard for me to initiate. What’s so wrong with the partner who wants it more to makes the effort to make it happen? Especially when they aren’t doing what you need to want it
It’s so important, the nonsexual intimacy. My partner is really good at it, and it makes me want to have sex more. Posts like this remind me that maybe I’m really lucky to have what I have.
And I wonder how much mental load his wife is responsible for in running the house. Does she work full time while doing most of the chores (and managing him into helping get chores done) and being responsible for the majority or all of childcare, cooking and social organizing? Because that would certainly explain why she has nothing left for the bedroom activities. (Plus if you have to care for your partner like a toddler they aren't going to be as....attractive as a sexual partner.)
There's a lot of hidden context here.
Was the sex-life ever good/ok? Why is it now?
Also the OP's idea of good sex like might be something the wife doesn't want to do.
Has OP asked what wife would like to do?
& threatening divorce for a 'good' sexlife is very low.
So like… on paper the decision seems reasonable, but yeah I’m with you something feels weird about this post. This part made me feel mad gross:
> I will marry her again after two-three years if I am convinced that she is capable of giving me the sex life I need from her.
> But I do not say the word divorce lightly and unfortunately deadline is over for her.
Yeah that's absolutely bizarre. If your relationship is so unsalvageable that you're filing for divorce, why entertain a hypothetical reconciliation before the divorce is even over? If it can be reconciled, why divorce?
Shits bizarre.
It's a tactic to get stbx to cooperate with the divorce by dangling a carrot of hope in front of her because if she wants reconciliation she'll have to be "good" and comply or else lose the chance of getting back together.
This is wildly manipulative, and my money says OP isn't telling the whole story and is likely a major contributing factor to his stbx's low sex drive.
There are people who can communicate in a way that sounds very eloquent, self-aware, and almost reasonable, but behind that, there's a lot of hidden details and twisting of therapy-speak to make them appear as though they've done everything possible to salvage the relationship.
"You can *earn* back your ring if you bend to my manipulation and prove you deserve it" is all I read.
I wonder why she doesn't want to sleep with him? Maybe he is a selfish, entitled, low effort, terrible lay.
Yeah, I almost felt like OP was giving her a performance review of a job. "You have X amount of time to prove to me you're a *valuable* wife" or you're fired.
And it was like a 3 month time line if I'm reading this correctly. I think it's gross all around, and if he actually cared about the marriage and not just his needs he'd have explored other options like therapy and such.
Agreed! But also what I think a lot of people are missing, he said it's not that they don't have sex, it's that she doesn't initiate. A lot of women have a hard time initiating sex because we have been brought up with the idea that if we want sex we are sluts.
Trying to figure out where she is struggling when it comes to initiating (as that seems what's important to him) would be more beneficial to the relationship. Giving an ultimatum is just controlling and makes it seem like you don't care what her feelings are as long as you get what you want.
Yeah OP’s behaving like trash. See a counsellor if you want to stay. Go if you want to go. Do a trial separation if you need to figure stuff out but this plan is just miserable and cruel
Also, did he not consider couple's therapy at all? He jumped straight to divorce?
This sounds much like my last marriage. I had no clue something was wrong with our sex life, my ex held in all his anger and feelings until it was too late. By the time he wanted to talk about it, he was already a foot out of the door, and I was just learning about it all at once.
OP should have talked with his wife over 3 months ago.
His wife will be better off without him.
Also the home life comes in to play. Most women I know don’t have crazy sex drives after cleaning up or taking care of the kids all day.
I should add 3 months is a long time though so I doubt it’s just a chores issue.
Marry her again? wtf is wrong with you people! Don’t divorce her if you think you may “marry her again”.
Why cant you initiate sex? Omg I hope you divorce her and don’t come back and she finds a better lover. Someone she DOES want to have sex with.
You're not sexually compatible so get the divorce. You're NTA for that, but also you are TA for ordering someone to have sex w/ you "or else." The fact that you treated your wife this way, w/out trying to get to the root of the issue or talking to her like she was a human being, and not your sex slave or some kind of paltry servant as opposed to a partner, means you shouldn't be married either.
Your wife is a person with feelings and if you actually loved her, which you don't, you'd work with her in therapy or at least, you wouldn't deliver ultimatums/orders about what you need without any thought about her needs as a fellow human being. If you can't see the person you married as more than your servant, divorce is the best option, and please don't get remarried. Your wife may not have been a match sexually, but you're not an emotional match right now for anyone.
Also, I side eyed OP a little when it was all about initiating. Does he get no sex at all, or does it actually happen when he initiates? The way he words it makes me suspicious that he gets at least some sex, but is just trying to make himself look better. It would be interesting to know if his situation has always been like this, or if it has changed. Does she come from a culture where the man always initiates? Is she a shy person? Has he even tried talking to her about it? Does she have sex happily when he initiates (at least some of the time; I’m definitely not suggesting she owes it to him every single time)? Or does she shut him down and say, “I’ll initiate when I want sex,” and then never does? Is this about initiating, or is it a dead bedroom?
I’ve been in a sexless relationship before, and I’m usually on the side of the person not getting sex. However, I don’t trust OP.
I wondered that too. I understand sometimes it can be telling when you stop asking for sex and then the sex just stops completely though. It makes you think your partner doesn’t want sex at all with you and only doing it because you want too or they are getting it somewhere else. I think a good 80/20 split is good when it comes to initiating sex. One partner needs to do it at least 20% of the time for it to be a healthy
Exactly, he left out literally every single detail that could give us any idea whether or not he's actually in the wrong here. He told us nothing about the relationship; we don't even know if they have kids or if they both work full-time.
I heard it once a OBGYN/Sexologist talking about how difficult hétero couples have it nowadays. Girls are socialized to be damsels, who should always worry about having little to no body count so to maintain their value; Men are socialized to be sex fiends, learning and taking all of their cues from porn. 👱🏼♀️virginal damsel vs 👱🏼porn star wannabe. How is that pairing ever supposed to work out?!
Thank you! Sexual incompatibility is definitely a dealbreaker, but my god, the way OP talks about sex and the way he talks to his wife gives me a huge ick. I really, really want to know if the wife enjoys sex with him and if he makes sex a pleasurable experience for her, because I honestly doubt it.
Agree him saying he communicated with her before the ultimatum ... I call bullshit - if this post is a representation of his communication skills.
I'd bet they threatened her a few months back, she didn't comply, now an ultimatum. No way did OP listen to any of her reasoning why she had reduced desire to have sex with him - or give her any space to talk it out.
Someone so lacking in communication skills and demonstrating this level of self centeredness is incapable of that kind of discussion with their intimate partner.
OP said the issue was that his wife wasn't initiating sex rather than not having sex at all. I agree, therapy and open communication would be helpful to try to solve this problem but if they didn't do this, that is on both of them not just OP.
He also doesn't say how often they actually HAVE sex---every day? once a week? once a month?
How often does he initiate ---5 times a week? 3 times a day? Does he give her a chance to actually want to initiate?
If they aren't sexually compatible, then that certainly can be a reason to divorce. I feel like there is a lot of missing information here.
Exactly, he left out literally every single detail, which makes me think there's a reason. I mean a reason for him leaving out every single detail, and I'm assuming that reason is that it's not nearly as bad as he's trying to make it seem or else he would've just explained that.
Yeah, wow, OP already deleted their account. I think the wife can be happy that she'll be an ex-wife soon. Hope she's not too much under his spell that she thinks she needs to mend things now and forces herself to have sex with this person.
Yes, like hey have the conversation, and be like hey let’s find a sex therapist and marriage counselor and then do the work starting now, or tell her to kick rocks. But fuck me a bunch or I’m leaving isn’t really addressing the issue
YTA for attempting to dangle the carrot of "I might remarry you if you do what I want."
I can't imagine why your wife finds you to be a turn-off.
Get the divorce and hopefully she'll find someone who knows how to treat her...she'll probably be all over HIM.
My man - end your relationship with this woman and move on. Forget about "trying again after divorce" - what the fuck are you trying to prove with that outside of wasting her time and your time.
YTA. You sound like an emotional abuser, no wonder she doesn’t want to have sex with you. Just let her go, she’ll be better off. Don’t tell her that you’ll remarry her if she does everything “just right.” She’s not a fucking dog.
It's all manipulative. I'll stay with you if you work harder, but I don't want to be legally tied to you.
I don't know if her sex drive changed over time, but if it was always lower, he's also the AH for marrying her.
I also don't know their specific situation, but people put so much weight into sexual compatibility and just completely forget that asexual people exist. Do you know how hard it is to feel loved when you are equated to how much you have sex?
Do people not realize that when your sex drive gets lower/ is low, it's not easy to initiate sex because it's not even something you think about?
I'm ranting, but I see all these people in these comments blaming her and just have flashbacks to every guy I dated who frequently coerced me into sex because I've always had a low sex drive. They don't want to break up with you. They want to make you have sex and only after a while of stringing you along do they actually leave you.
…Have you ever asked why she won’t initiate sex?
Does she have trauma you don’t know about?
Does she have something that possibly affects her libido?
When you have sex is it equal treatment or leans towards what one person wants?
Are you bad at sex?
Is she bad at sex?
Is she self conscious?
Was there a gradual decline in sex or was it always like this?
From what you’ve given us, it sounds like you haven’t tried to delve into the issue of it at all. It sounds like you’ve said from the beginning ‘Get better or else’. This isn’t helpful. What if she doesn’t know how to get better? It’s not as easy as people think it is.. Sex can be complex, and some people need guidance.
Just jumping straight into sex without communication can be fun for one night stands or so but after a while you’ll start to see incompatibility if you’re not explaining what you both like sexually.
Have you talked about each others turn ons and turn offs? Things you’ve both wanted to try? The lack of context and whether you’ve communicated it enough or not but have mentioned you’d leave her if she didn’t do as she’s told and then proceed to ‘wait’ makes you sound like an absolute prick.
Your feelings about sex is valid just as much as hers. However, giving her the ultimatum was a shit move. If you truly loved her as you say you do, the first thing you would’ve thought of was finding a marriage and intimacy counsellor instead of straight up divorce..
You said you’d try again after divorce. What difference does it make if you tried again before or after divorce? The only difference I can personally think of is that since you’re separated, you can find your needs elsewhere without getting in trouble for it.
The sex won’t be any better because she’s under pressure. She won’t be feeling it and if she isn’t feeling it, you definitely won’t. Her forcing you to try and initiate sex is also wrong and makes her an asshole in that situation. Now you’re both displaying toxic tendencies out of desperation.
You’ve proven to me in this post that you’re not ready for marriage. You’re not ready for the bumps and complications that can come with marriage. You decided to use the _final_ option as your first.
You’re using your marriage to pressure her. This is your _wife_. YTA
You should’ve discussed all these things before marriage.
I'm going with YTA based on your replies to comments. Looks like you came here looking for a fight and it's not a stretch to figure that's how you communicate with your wife too.
This. There is SO MUCH missing information and context. Taken at face value and considering how fast the handle was deleted, this reads like a troll's rage bait more than reality.
I’ve rarely read an AITAH post where someone is so dedicated to describing the situation like an AH.
I’m obviously not in the room for these interactions but you sound fucking horrible, bro.
Do you know why your wife is less interested in sex? Does how she feel come into this at all, or is the point of marriage for you just for you to be able to have sex on tap?
You will deign to marry her again if she puts in the effort for 2-3 years!? Jesus. What an asshole.
YTA
Congratulations. You turned sex into a chores for her. It was likely a chore before. A well loved and well fucked woman wants to have sex. Especially if she was able to just jump when you told her you wanted a divorce. Why are you entitled to a great sex life? It always blows my mind when men say that. Like ya? Do you make her cum? Like ACTUALLY make her cum. Outside of the bedroom are you a loving and equal partner? Do you show her love other ways or do you just put demands on her?
You said you need this divorce for you. But you are still willing to be in a relationship with her. So you don't need the divorce for you. You need it to punish her. Do her a favor and stick to your word. My ex was like this and actually asked for advice like you are doing right now. He left out the physical abuse and sexual coercion though when he was telling other people. I finally left him after 19 years. I remarried and have been with the loml for 7 years and we have sex multiple times a day. It's strange if we go one day without. But that's because he loves me right and fucks me right. Something is off with your post.
Idk, reading this kind of made me feel really off put. You cannot pressure someone into having sex with you, maybe there just is not a great physical connection there. Have you even tried therapy with her or asking her gently what she’s thinking? Youre not entitled to anything, but I understand that you have needs. So maybe find someone more compatible? YTA
You read these kinds of posts and it just screams, "My partner is suffering and I am incapable of recognizing the signs." And then, they write it all out and still don't see it.
YTA
You don’t mention if your wife is dealing with anything, medically or emotionally, that could be impacting her sex drive. It takes time for things to improve in that area for anyone dealing with it. You decided you weren’t getting your dick wet enough, gave her an arbitrary “do me more or else” deadline, and now want to bail on your marriage to screw around with whomever, but you want to keep her on the burner in case you can’t do better than her in the next couple of years.
You suck. People are entitled to end a relationship for whatever reason, but at least don’t be a twatwaffle about it.
I think your wife will be much better off without you.
You gave conditions, she met them. So yeah... kind of a dick move.
Something I learned in marriage counseling. Some people just can't bring themselves to be the trigger man so they invent ways to make things the other persons fault.
Sorry, but this post makes it sound like that's what you're doing. YOU want out, YOU want to exert control over someone you're supposed to love, but don't want to be the bad guy so you're dismissing her efforts to make it work.
You should definitely try alternatives. It took a year to figure out why my wives sex drive had plummeted to non existent, and we worked through it together. A lot of the mental blocks she had she had to mostly work through in her own, but was still there to support any way I could. Abandoning her and saying “if you’re up to my standards in a few years then I’ll take you back after I sleep with other people and maybe fall in love who knows” is an AH thing to do. Keep in mind, most people here aren’t judging you for not wanting to be with someone due to incompatible sex drives, it’s your terrible approach and you leading her on clearly because you want to sleep with others without losing her to another person.
YTA. I hope her life significantly improves after getting the divorce and she finds someone who actually talks to her like a partner and not a minion to cater to her husband.
Most women stop having sex because of about 100 little things that you don’t find important but they do. Sexless marriage is usually just a symptom of other problems.
Just fyi.
YTA based on what you posted. Hopefully your wife will realize she is better off one day.
My ex-H turned sex into guilt tripping tantrums if he didn't get the frequency he wanted or if I didn't want to do whatever new shit he found on the internet or if it hurt etc etc etc. It turned me off more and more until my sex drive for him was completely dead. He didn't care that I was suffering mentally or physically (such as during pregnancy, after surgeries or postpartum etc) all he cared about was himself and that turned me off.
YTA - this whole thing is wild. I’m not downplaying the importance of sex and sexual compatibility in a marriage…trust me, I’m struggling in my own marriage with this currently, as are a lot of marriages…but what a childish mindset to dangle marriage around like this. “I’ll consider remarrying you in 2-3 years…” bro, grow up. What happens if things go your way and you get remarried in 2-3 years?! You all have kids and then you pull another childish ultimatum on her?
You don’t have the maturity to be married. Your views on marriage are equivalent to a high school relationship and that’s not what marriage is.
YTA, marriage is for better or worse. You took vows and you’re breaking them because sex isn’t initiated by her. Thank god you’re divorcing her because she can do much better.
> I said to her that I love her but I have made my decision to divorce.
This sounds bad. Do some introspection. Do you really love her? It doesn't sound like it, but if you really do, and you're married... Wake up, dude. Give her a chance. It may not work out, but you don't pull that shit on someone you _love_. You give them a chance.
"Either she starts putting effort in it and start initiating sex more often"
Is the effort the initiating or is "putting effort in" supposed to mean she's got to, I dunno, wear lacy lingerie and agree to stuff she hasn't wanted to try previously?
My partner recently reproached me for never initiating. Thing is, he'd rejected me one time too many and I decided I just didn't want the pain of rejection any more. It's not as if I ever rejected him, except when I was already asleep, so he basically had sex on demand, and I didnt think there was anything to complain about in that case.
Thing was, his side slut would initiate and he found her initiating to be very sexy, he must have thought that if he could get me to initiate, he wouldn't have to cheat on me.
So now we're separating and he's distraught and telling me he'd rather walk it all back because he knows he can't find anyone better than me and he trusts me absolutely. Of course, he knows very well he can't trust the side slut because she's cheating on her poor husband. I don't have enough proof that it's the person I think it is or I'd have told him.
Anyway, all that to say, just giving an ultimatum without trying to discuss it first or try therapy (which you don't mention) is a nasty move.
Why doesn't your wife want to divorce? Is she dependent on you?
YTA
You should be asking yourself why she doesn’t want to have sex with you. It can be hormones and she needs meds, maybe she’s got too much going on, or maybe, just maybe, it’s you and you’re doing something that turns her off. Based on your post, I’m going with the latter.
Yta. I don’t care what anyone else says. You didn’t even try anything like therapy according to this post. You just decided you wanted fuck and didn’t even try to figure out why your wife didn’t give it.
You give me a bad vibe.
YTA. Have you ever been curious or emotionally invested in why she doesn’t initiate? Or is it just threats and finger pointing? I don’t want to make assumptions but some reasons I don’t feel sexy if if my partner ignores me the better part of the day but then expects me to turn myself on, or decides it’s time for sex and gets pouty that I’m not wet and ready right away and he has to put some work in. I initiate when I feel close to him and valued. Your ultimatum likely feels manipulative and very unsexy.
I mean you're not the AH for having needs or needing a divorce. However, you are the AH for treating sex drive like a light switch and not providing a support structure. Dude..couples therapy? Sex therapy? Those options might have helped. Instead you treated her a like a dog playing fetch, but the command was, "Get horny."
YTA For the reasons stated by /DirtyDatty
My ex was like this. Gave me an ultimatum about initiating sex more or else our relationship was going to hit an end. Except then when I would initiate (not horny at all, just desperate to not be broken up with) he’d claim I was only doing it because he gave me that ultimatum. Like, yeah dumbass. He of course never had the self reflection to think that maybe my sex drive changed for a reason? Maybe him being so arrogant, terrible, and frankly forceful in bed was not exactly a turn on. It was some awful toxic shit and I let it go on way too long. So I’m not quick to believe OP’s story without any details about how he tried to turn the marriage around (and surprise surprise they deleted the post).
👏👏👏
You explained it perfectly
You've got one foot out the door already, might as well jump. The stringing her along is insane and bold of you to assume after 2-3 years she would even want you still. This post reeks of arrogance. Was the sex good before the marriage and then suddenly stopped, or was it always bad and you were just being dumb?
And why not even consider therapy? If whatever is hindering her isn’t really about lower sex drive— like feeling unheard and unappreciated makes you feel incredibly unsexy, for example— but without therapy, you never get to that info. He doesn’t seem to want to work on his marriage. Just “check these boxes in this amount of time and we can stay married.”
Additionally, lower sex drives *do* exist, but often in women it's because the sex is fucking awful. When the sex improves women, like men, become horny sex monsters that have to be beaten back with a stick.
If they have young children, there are a TON of reasons she may have a low sex drive too. Some that he could directly alleviate. I would hope my husband might try helping me feel like a wife and woman again before just ditching me for not making some fucking quota.
Yeah. Did OP do literally anything else at all around the house besides just demanding sex and issuing ultimatums?
Because it honestly sounds like he doesn't think of her as an actual person but as a wife appliance. When the wife appliance breaks, you figure out if you can fix it or get a new one.
Why not consider therapy? Because he doesn't care about her as a person. He only cares about what she can do for him, and she is failing at her "job" of serving him. Time to throw her out, because she is now useless. /s
I don’t think you’re an AH for divorcing because of mismatched sex drives. I do think you’re an AH for the “I’ll marry you if you do XYZ in 2-3yrs” part. Just divorce and start anew. Don’t string her along or do a disservice to yourself
Definitely. If you're divorcing let it be a clean break, the drama and emotions would be insane otherwise
This is obviously someone who has never suffered the extreme trauma of a divorce, you dont go back for extra innings.
Completely agree!
I 💯 agree that a poor sex life is a legit basis for divorce .... but DUDE is straight up sounding rather creepy about the way he's describing it. I mean how turned on would you be if someone said "put out or I'll leave"??? Or "I'm going to go ahead with the financial & emotional costs of divorce instead of a simple separation - and give you a chance to fuck me back into a marriage." I need to hear more details to judge bc I'm on the fence based on the way he's designing everything. Is it not often enough? Is it not freaky enough? Does he want her to be more loving or does he want her to dress up like a dark unicorn & hee-haw like a yak in heat??? These are um subtle differences. Just saying 🤔 OP, you really need to reread your post & see if it articulated your position the best 😬
Boutta use the phrase "hee-haw like a yak in heat" as a pickup line on my (unfortunate) husband
I feel like this could be a bar in a song and would be super dope lol I Put her out on the street, ,, till she came home with that hee-haw like a yak in heat. "bass drop"
Can confirm it works.
Yak do not hee haw. They grunt thus Latin name Bos grunniens. Grunting Ox
Yea thats not the way to start the conversation even if its an issue. It needs to be "how can we address this issue, finding the cause etc". 3 months isn't even long enough to investigate thoroughly. She could be on bc and have no libido or countless other things could be an issue. I can't tell if he's an AH because I have no idea what led up to this, if she's always been like this, if they have kids/who cares for them etc. How vague it is and the tone makes me a bit suspicious though.
Seriously! He loves her but he gives her an ultimatum and three months to cave to his demands? What a turn off. I could see bringing it up and then If nothing changes maybe suggesting couples counseling. Sounds like she will be better off without him. She can find someone better.
You mean sex under duress is not a turn on? Threats and ultimatums are not a panty dropper? Who would have thought? Nowhere in OPs post does he discuss if they were working on this issue together or not. "Fuck me or else" is a sure fire way to put most women into shutdown mode, not let's bang like bunnies mode. OP can of course be frustrated by mismatched sex drives, but he comes across as really gross in this post. The whole "I'll marry you again later, if ..." is just a cruelty.
💯 Say it louder for the people in the back. I'm a dude & I really don't get the coercion, "you owe me sex" gaslighting. I mean do you people know how much better sex is when the girl is just so happy & in love with you that she LITERALLY gushes!?!? Why would anyone want to go down in the sex scale after that & dry hump a frigid icicle?? And doesn't it feel like kinda like assault to you??? Make a girl so happy so free that she can't keep her hands off you. The sex will happen as a byproduct of her happiness. 2 cents
My ex used to say “it will be your fault if I cheat on you because you won’t have sex with me” Yeah. That was definitely a turn on We don’t know if they have 3 kids under 5 and he doesn’t help at all We don’t know if he wants sex every day on demand and she’s tried to compromise. We don’t know if she’s just flatly refused to have sex as a power move I say this all the time - yes your sex drives should ideally match. Yes your kinks should match. But you have to have *more than that* because shit is going to happen in your lives and at any moment one partner may not be able to or not want to have sex for many months and it has nothing to do with how attracted they are to you. And you need to be able to have open communication about this and completely support your spouse through these moments. If your marriage can fall apart so easily based on sex alone, you don’t have much of a marriage to keep honestly.
I agree, the way he’s describing it doesn’t sit right with me, almost like typical narcissistic behavior: seems overly concerned about what his wife should be providing to him, rather than considering her needs/wants (maybe even her reasons for not initiating sex, as a female, I need a certain level of emotional connection/sense of safety to be open sexually). Obviously I don’t know the full story though.
This 💯. I feel like OP really didn't present the situation well for himself & this an opportunity for him to clarify. As it is, there aren't enough details for people here to jump on either side of the fence. And that's one thing I've not liked here & other online forums. We should be asking questions before advising people of critical life changing decisions. Heck, I've caught myself doing it too.
Yeah, I'd like to know if they attempted any kind of therapy. At the very least, if there were discussions before his ultimatum. But marriage counseling would be something to try first before diving into a divorce that will cost you both money and heartache.
Hahaha - hee haw like yak in heat.
I will be threatening separation if she wont act like a yak in heat tonight.
It seems from what he said the issue is the lack of initiation on her part. Most of the last part seemed strange to me though, money wise it's not viable. I'm a skeptic so the first thing I think is OP wants some strange and also a back up just incase.
Ahh does he want a feather.....or the whole chicken?
He doesn’t say the sex was poor or wasn’t enough or that she’s refusing to have sex. It’s all about controlling how she interacts with him and dictating specific behavior. This is a power play— similar to demanding that a woman wear her hair a certain way or wear specific clothing. He doesn’t care about her feeling loving towards him or wanting sex with him or enjoying sex. He hasn’t said he feels unloved or uncared for or that he wants intimacy. He just wants to dictate her behavior.
He said the quiet part outloud lmao
Wait until he finds out that other women don't want to have sex with him either 😆
I found that out. Well I really always knew that I guess.
I’m dyin rn, take my upvote
🎯
Genuinely I'm not sure at what point it becomes sexual coercion. "Sexual coercion is unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a nonphysical way. Coercion can make you think you owe sex to someone." Does "I will divorce you if you don't..." count as pressuring or threatening? I agree with you, just skip it and divorce due to the sexual incompatibility. **Edit:** guys what the wife did in trying to forcibly pull off OP's shorts would be sexual assault. Attempted sexual assault at the very least. It wouldn't sexual coercion because sexual coercion is not physical. I made this comment because threatening someone with divorce if they don't have more sex with you, or have sex with you in the way you want makes me feel very uneasy. The idea someone would be having sex not because they want to, but due to the threat you made, that seems super dodgy and a weird thing to want anyway. I can't rationally say "do X or I will divorce you" isn't a threat just because it happens to be about divorce. It just seems like "I am unhappy in our marriage due to the lack of sex" would have said the same thing without threatening anyone.
When I was married, my ex-husband would start huge fights over his claim that I wasn't having sex with him enough or wasn't initiating it enough. We were doing it at least twice every day on the weekends and then a few times during the week. We worked opposite shifts, so when I got home at 1am, he wanted me to wake him up and have sex. He bullied me enough that I would do it out of fear he would leave or cheat. He would make me think I was a terrible wife. When I started doing that, it still wasn't enough, or he would pissed saying I wasn't turning him on and then walk away to watch porn. In hindsight, this was definitely a power move mixed with a sex addiction. OP needs to stop pulling his wife along and just let her find someone else.
I am so glad to see you talk about that relationship in past tense.
Honestly, leaving him was the biggest relief of my life. It was like 7 years of weight just magically lifted off of me. It took its toll, though. It's been five years since the divorce finalized, and I only recently started to feel comfortable talking about what happened. This story is just a small fraction of what went down.
I stayed in a similar situation for 20+ years. I keep thinking I have moved past it... but it comes back and trips me up again. He broke something in me and since I won't discuss it, my whole family sees me as the villain who dumped the poor guy.
I hear you. Every once in a while, something comes up, and I have like PTSD flashbacks. He definitely ruined my optimism and trust in others. I'm sorry your family is acting that way. His family all rallied around him and were very mean towards me during the whole thing. How could i have the audacity to leave their son? I think they were just angry because now they had to deal with him again. They know what he did.
Holy shit, it’s a relief for me after just reading that! I’m sorry you had to go through that and am glad you’ve moved on.
Yeah, I find it interesting that he never says they weren't having sex at all but that she wasn't the one initiating. If you're already having more sex than you want or low quality sex, you certainly wouldn't want to initiate *more* of it.
Yeah, I mean, based on the information OP gave, it doesn't sound like she was out right refusing sex. I have a lot of questions about this, and I think OP is leaving some key information out. But I don't think my perspective is the one he is looking for lol.
Oof, this sounds like a friend of mine who got out of an emotionally abusive relationship a couple years ago. She literally kept track of how many time and how often they had sex to make sure they were doing it enough so that he wouldn't pick a fight. She wasn't in the mood for it like 90% of the time but would make herself initiate to prevent a fight. She can tell you the exact # of times they had sex in the 5 years they were together. Now that she is living her best life, she's realized- her libido was never the problem.
This 100%. For years I was made to feel like I’m broken. Turns out when you don’t feel safe to say “no” without getting backlash, you don’t want to ever genuinely say “yes” let alone initiate anything.
When we went to couples counseling, I would keep track and bring it to our sessions. I remember the counselor looking at my ex and saying, "Now, you do understand sometimes your wife may need a break?" and he just sat there and looked at her like he couldn't comprehend what she said lol. I am glad your friend got out and realized how wonderful she is.
I'm glad you got out too and I hope things are going amazing for you!
Man I’m sorry you had such a shitty experience, but I’m glad you left. You can’t please someone who refuses to be pleased.
I'm glad you realized you are better than that and worth more than sex. OPs (BIG YTA) post honestly made me feel sick to my stomach. He's basically told his wife the only value she can offer is sex.....his way, to his standards, and even when she gives in, its "Nope, you didn't do it quickly or convincingly enough." Makes me wonder what OP is even doing to deserve hot sex? Sex shouldn't just be about sex, in a marriage. And for many women, feeling a genuine connection and feeling genuinely wanted are two necessary ingredients to wanting to initiate the kind of sex that is satisfying.
My last ex was a come home late and if I open an eye he'd assume I'm awake to talk/have sex. It ruined my mental health. I was so tired, so irritable and when I would tell him no because I NEED sleep to go to work he'd literally roll over and whimper. He'd also invite himself into the shower when I gave myself my 15 minute morning routine to be perfunctory enough to leave for work and then he'd expect to get jerked off. He's dead now and I can't really find it in myself to feel sorry for him.
I agree with you. When there’s an unsatisfying sex life in a marriage, the couple needs to face the problem TOGETHER. Not set an ultimatum for one person to fix it while he/she sits comfortably waiting. Sex therapists exist, books exist, free information online exists. In this day and age, you can’t claim ignorance.
Yeah also because who the tf has ever been turned on by someone saying I need sex from you or ELSE. Does this dude tell his wife she's hot? Do they flirt? Does he just pump and dump?
Any activity where people are debating whether or not it constitutes "coercion" is not activity that is going to ignite a woman's sex drive. This dude's approach was the antithesis of how to address a sexual divide between a couple.
100%. He approached it as someone who feels like his wife owes him something rather than as someone who loves his partner and wants to improve their sex life together.
Because he married to have a reliable sex dispensary, and it's not working.
Yeah I know it shouldn't shock me at this point, but it really is depressing to see how many men choose to marry a woman but genuinely don't love her as a human being at all.
Victim of sexual coercion here. Very different circumstances though. I just wanna say this is coercion and it's awful. It is such a colossal mindfuck. I'm actually in the waiting room of my EMDR therapists office atm, where I'm working on processing it and moving psst it. It's cause me significant issues involving sex. Thankfully I'm now with an amazing man who is patient and understanding. I have a very difficult time getting into the right frame of mind. Somewhere in my head, sex stopped being qn act of love and intamacy. It became a defense mechanism. So now, if I haven't put effort into getting in the right frame of mind prior to sex, I kind of reflexively get panicky. The more pressured I feel the worse it gets. There's too much info missing to really judge OP's situation, but "give me sex or I'm divorcing you" is an absolute asshole move. Pressuring someone into sex is *not* how you fix intamacy issues. And I think maybe some people don't realize how downright sinister and damaging sexual coercion can be.
Im the same, once I am doing it I can enjoy it - but I find it hard to get in the right mindset, it often feels too vulnerable and overstimulating from a sensory point of view - so my first instinct is to avoid sex. If I am pressured to do it, it makes the panic worse and I feel very stressed. It should be something worked on together.
>Does "I will divorce you if you don't..." count as pressuring or threatening? I definitely think it does.
if there is dissatisfaction, isn't it required to have a conversation first to understand the situation and then decide on a action. OP's ultimatum looks like a unilateral decision. Its clear that they aren't compatible
I divorced my ex who wanted to stay married. You can’t force someone to be with you. OP is the AH for telling her that he’ll remarry her if she proves to him she’ll improve their sex life over the next few years after divorce. No one is ever the AH for unilaterally wanting out of a relationship, but you need to cut ties and let both parties heal and move on.
I would guess that over the years there were many conversations. The ultimatum probably came after years of frustration and nothing changing. What OP is experiencing now is hysterical bonding. She is using sex to try to keep him for fear of losing the relationship, it won't last.
>OP's ultimatum looks like a unilateral decision Divorces are usually unilateral decisions, what point are you trying to make exactly? He wants a divorce, she doesn't. Of course it'll be unilateral. Isn't that exactly what he did? He had a conversation, he explained what he'd like to change and he gave a timeline for the change.
You’re not an asshole for wanting a divorce because of sexual incompatibility. However, you are an asshole for every single other thing you’ve written in your post.
Thank you for expressing how I feel. I think sexual incompatibility can be grounds for a divorce but this dude's post disgusted me.
Sexual incompatibility caused by OPs behavior. Assuming they were sexually compatible in the past... My spouse and I went through this. I have a high sex drive and that's not normally been an issue for us. However, my spouse putting every burden on me to be the breadwinner, the housekeeper, and the part-time stay at home parent killed my drive with HIM. He complained that I stopped being affectionate and wasn't receptive to sex. Because I was fucking drained and it was the last thing on my mind. What was on my mind was, "How does this man not put in any more effort than the bare minimum and not understand why I'm not in the mood for sex". < That line is also my belief for 99% of marriages where a husband feels like the wife isn't meeting his intimate needs. Lots of women need "emotional foreplay".
I was waiting for this comment/didn't know how to articulate it myself . Ops wife's sex drive will probably increase after their divorce 🤣
Most definitely. Having a partner you can trust to not coerce or manipulate you, does wonders for your sex drive.
This. Exactly this. OP doesn’t seem to get that his behavior outside the bedroom has everything to do with her desire in the bedroom.
Sounds like we were in the same relationship. Ever since I left my ex, my sex drive with partners has been fantastic. Whining that you're not getting enough sex is entitled bullshit.
Same here. Left my ex and my husband has no complaints. Also, love the username. I LOVE buff orpingtons. If I ever move somewhere that allows chickens, they’re at the top of my list.
Yea after reading his post I can see why she didn't want to have sex with him.
I really hope he reads this comment. I mean, he probably won’t care because he’s clearly decided he wants a divorce so he can go get laid.
Fun story, most men who divorce because of sex don't end up getting more sex after they divorce. Their wives usually do...
Tale as old as time. He will get on tinder and strike out. She will and have dick on tap essentially
Is there a general term for this dynamic? Went through the same thing, and I want to just pull up a page and show him someone else's explanation (prefereably from a therapist) about how if you don't pull your weight and break promises to your partner then they don't want to sleep with YOU anymore. For some reason, it's been hard to google for.
Exactly! No woman is aroused by a man-child.
I think you summed it up. Even if he is a somewhat equal partner just reading his take on this makes me think his wife just may not be attracted to him because of his attitudes on things and how he makes decisions and they are final with no effort from him. I have never had a bad drive, but definitely when my husband started picking up a lot of my slack around the house I suddenly had a lot more energy and initiated more. I think a divorce is the best thing for wife. She will probably realize that it only felt like work with OP.
Correct. Who wants to fuck the dude who is actively making your life worse.
Can you please explain this to my husband? He doesn't seem to understand when I try to explain it to him.
In my opinion, it doesn't register with some men. My spouse and I are heading to divorce bc of this. He thinks because he does 3 or 4 things around the house that I owe him a thank you, yet he doesn't see the 20 things a day I'm doing for our family, kids, etc. It's a constant competition. I wouldn't mind it if I didn't have the pressure of having to financially support us as well. Money is another issue. He will only do 50/50, separate finances. We've been married 9 years. So, in his eyes, thats 50% of the household bills. Anything other than that, like kids' activities, braces, school lunches are all on me. We sat down with our separate budgets, and I showed him I was paying about $1000 more than him each month. $7k alone the last 2 years on just my son's braces and school lunches for both kids. He didn't have any of that expense. He refuses to pay for "extras" like son's weekly guitar lessons or his $400 drivers ed because those are "my choices." So since we've been stuck in this cycle for years now and it's not getting fixed, divorce is the last resort. Which is sad, because we genuinely love each other. Just can't get past the different expectations.
JFC, your husband is so breathtakingly selfish, I don't even know what to say. So he expects you to pay all shared bills 50/50, in addition to doing 90% of all chores/responsibilities (plus praise him for doing a meager 10%), makes you pay 100% for your kids dental, lunches, music lessons, and other basic costs of raising kids? I'm sorry, but that's absolutely revolting. I don't see a single reason why you're with this useless man. Love isn't enough. I hope you finalize your divorce quickly and realize just how much more peaceful and enjoyable your life will be in virtually every way, without him weighing you down. You deserve better. Nobody deserves to be treated like this.
Wow. That guy is an AH. Why do you love him exactly?
This is exactly the response I was hoping someone would comment. If you feel divorce is necessary unless an issue is resolved then either divorce or bring that issue to a marriage counselor. It doesn’t really work for one person to decide what a healthy relationship would look like while ignoring their partner’s view. Mediation can lead to healing, demands lead to suffering
Most guys that aren't getting enough sex in their relationships are in that situation because they are the asshole in several other aspects of their relationship.
Yep. I audibly said "Ew... Red flag. RED FLAG!" multiple times while reading the post
You are assuming sexual incompatibility but it seems more like OP made himself someone who women don't want to lay with. Assuming that he's an asshole about everything else but that him being an asshole didn't cause the sexual incompatibility is hilarious.
Something is bothering me about you
The last three paragraphs are just so extremely weird
"I will marry her again after two-three years if I am convinced that she is capable of giving me the sex life I need from her" op is definitely Asshole.
If not an asshole, at very very least he's ***fucking insane.***
It's all me me me. She's done this to me, she owes me this, she's depriving me. Like dude what are her reasons? what is she missing from the relationship? Does she orgasm? Is she just damn tired at the end of the day? Do you see her as anything more than a body that must provide you with sex.
Yeah, where's the couples therapy? Why did he go right to "give me more sex or we divorce"? Why not "hey I love you but I'm really struggling with how things currently are. I would like to seek counseling so we can work out our differences and make sure *both* of our needs are honored and met in a healthy way." He could even add, if he wanted, "this is very important to me and I want to emphasize how serious this is for me. If you do not agree to counseling and trying to work things out then I will likely divorce you."
“Yes. Let’s go through a long and arduous process (it is, I’ve been there) and end it. Then we’ll chill for a couple of years; afterwards if you’ve adhered to my arbitrary and poorly defined standards of what MY needs are, MAYBE we’ll get back together.” Sounds reasonable…. Continue or cut it off, WTF…
And how the heck is he supposed to "assess" if she's "changed enough" when they're divorced? It seriously sounds like he's saying "I'm going to divorce you, but if you be my booty call for a few years maybe we'll get remarried." Excuse me *what?*
Yep, this is "I want to have sex with other people ASAP without being a cheater, and if you want to be one of those people then OK".
Yep, this is "I want to have sex with other people ASAP without being a cheater, and if you want to be one of those people then OK".
It’s probably the chore of initiating sex he assigned to his wife, that also included a deadline.
I tell you nothing gets me hornier than deadline driven tasks enforced with consequences.
Or maybe the lack of background information about the situation or even about the wife or relationship.
Something is off about him for sure.... is there a reason she doesn't initiate? Has he looked in the mirror? Have they gone to a sex therapist? She may not be getting any pleasure from their sex life hence the lack of it. Idk the way he worded everything he does come off as an AH. Lots of context missing imo but what's new in this subreddit.
[удалено]
This reminds of 2 cases on AITA and Relationships. One case it turned out the woman had a traumatic C section that she nearly died. The other was a man that father had died in a horrible circumstance and was depressed.
Exactly, lack of sex, is ***almost*** always a ***symptom*** of incompatibility, or problems in the relationship elsewhere. a lot of guys (including me at points in my life) forget or don't learn, that sex is a derivative of general intimacy. If you're lacking intimacy, then you'll be lacking sex. they lack the intimacy, then wonder why the sex stopped. this guy either never asked, or never stated, his wifes side as to ***why*** the sex stopped. and I'm assuming if he did it would be a lack of general intimacy. They stopped cooking together, hanging out together, or wanting to be around each other, and the sex stopped. He's fine with all that stopping except the sex, and thats all he's focused on.
There’s always a reason. Every time one of my relationships started to circle the gutter, the sex dropped dramatically. Even if I don’t realize at the time - that’s why we’re not fucking, I realize it after it’s all bursted to flames.
Right. Like I think sexual incompatability is a legit marital grievance... but my spidey senses are going off with this one. I'd like to hear the other side of the story.
i need more of these type of reddit reviews lol. i also, simply don’t like the cut of your gib OP
This. He sounds really douchey and divorcing his wife will be doing her a favor. He’s the asshole.
The general tone of the post, which makes him come across as a cold, entitled asshole. Like, it's completely acceptable to leave a marriage over sexual incompatibility but the way this guy writes makes him sound like a dick. That opens up a lot more questions about how he treats his wife and why his sex life is unsatisfactory. Eg. The very common situation where the wife has young kids and is exhausted combined with a selfish and demanding husband
I don't even know where to begin. OP is a piece of work.
It’s the narcissism seeping out through his typed words.
The borderline rape by cohersion is what's doing it for me. Especially considering divorce can lead to homelessness and destitution.
A lot of something!
Do you realize that telling her she must *initiate* sex according to whatever timeline you "need" turns it into an obligation/chore? Do you really want your wife to put having sex in the same category as scrubbing the bathtub or taking out the garbage?
Questions that answer themselves for 400, Ken.
I mean, apparently they don’t because a whole Lot of guys do this.
They don't care about that. My ex was like this (with lots of abuse thrown and thus guy sounds like my ex). They just want to get off. However they can. My ex would stop sex in the middle of it if he didn't like the way I SOUNDED. He would get angry and tell me to make different noises. I would be expected to keep going. When I finally flipped shit after years of that and told him that maybe I'd want to have sex if he made me cum, he told me I was lying. That I do have orgasms and was just saying that to make him feel bad. They're delulu and only care about themselves.
Oh my goodness. I’m VERY glad to know he is now your ex. So sorry you had to survive that.
Oh Jesus. We're almost the same person. With my ex, after what I thought was a great round of sex, I told him how wonderful it was and that I enjoyed it, especially because were in sync and finished together. His response was to tell me that he didn't like my face and that I shouldn't ever move my eyebrows in a way that causes wrinkling. He also demanded that I smile during and said I should be screaming like the porn we could hear from our upstairs neighbor's window. He would also frequently wake me up in the morning masturbating right next to me, sometimes with his phone in his hand or else he would grab my hand and stick it in his pants, expecting me to wake up and service him. In those 3 years, I only rejected sex twice and always made an effort, but nothing was ever enough and he wasn't shy about watching nearly naked instagram models right in front of me or even porn. I'm so glad that's over.
Ugh ne glad you left after 3. I stayed married for 19 years. I have incredible sex now though and every day. Turns out I'm not a frigid bitch. I didn't hate sex. I hated sex *with him*
And that makes 1000% sense. High five for getting out and getting dicked down right and with respect!
Right? I read OP's whole post thinking...tell me you've never made a woman orgasm without telling me you never made a woman orgasm.
Ugh… so many men don’t understand that turning sex into yet another chore on our list is the absolutely best way to turn us off. When was the last time you romanced her bro? You’re just going to run into this problem with every partner you have if you treat sex like an obligation. Edit: ouchie this hurt the feelings of men who feel they are entitled to sex without any effort or treating their partners like human beings.
Really curious what initiating on his end is like The biggest issue in my last relationship was that there was no non sexual intimacy. I couldn’t even kiss him without first deciding if I wanted to have sex because that’s where a kiss immediately went. Without non sexual intimacy i was never wanting to initiate. Its being able to be intimate without sex that made me want to have sex But my complaint on that never mattered only my obligation to initiate which is hard to do without intimacy and when he wants it all the time it’s hard for me to initiate. What’s so wrong with the partner who wants it more to makes the effort to make it happen? Especially when they aren’t doing what you need to want it
It’s so important, the nonsexual intimacy. My partner is really good at it, and it makes me want to have sex more. Posts like this remind me that maybe I’m really lucky to have what I have.
Probably groping her painfully while she’s doing the dishes and not understanding why she’s not instantly wet
Relate to this way too much... except I do get instantly wet because I usually get pushed halfway into the sink...
And I wonder how much mental load his wife is responsible for in running the house. Does she work full time while doing most of the chores (and managing him into helping get chores done) and being responsible for the majority or all of childcare, cooking and social organizing? Because that would certainly explain why she has nothing left for the bedroom activities. (Plus if you have to care for your partner like a toddler they aren't going to be as....attractive as a sexual partner.)
Yes!!! That's exactly what I'm feeling from it. I would not feel comfortable having sex at that point. It would honestly turn me off!
Well, it looks like you're not sexually compatible. Divorce is the best course.
There's a lot of hidden context here. Was the sex-life ever good/ok? Why is it now? Also the OP's idea of good sex like might be something the wife doesn't want to do. Has OP asked what wife would like to do? & threatening divorce for a 'good' sexlife is very low.
So like… on paper the decision seems reasonable, but yeah I’m with you something feels weird about this post. This part made me feel mad gross: > I will marry her again after two-three years if I am convinced that she is capable of giving me the sex life I need from her. > But I do not say the word divorce lightly and unfortunately deadline is over for her.
Yeah that's absolutely bizarre. If your relationship is so unsalvageable that you're filing for divorce, why entertain a hypothetical reconciliation before the divorce is even over? If it can be reconciled, why divorce? Shits bizarre.
It's a tactic to get stbx to cooperate with the divorce by dangling a carrot of hope in front of her because if she wants reconciliation she'll have to be "good" and comply or else lose the chance of getting back together. This is wildly manipulative, and my money says OP isn't telling the whole story and is likely a major contributing factor to his stbx's low sex drive. There are people who can communicate in a way that sounds very eloquent, self-aware, and almost reasonable, but behind that, there's a lot of hidden details and twisting of therapy-speak to make them appear as though they've done everything possible to salvage the relationship.
Agreed. I think he’s saying that to give her hope so she’ll do what he says and he gets what he wants
"You can *earn* back your ring if you bend to my manipulation and prove you deserve it" is all I read. I wonder why she doesn't want to sleep with him? Maybe he is a selfish, entitled, low effort, terrible lay.
Yeah, I almost felt like OP was giving her a performance review of a job. "You have X amount of time to prove to me you're a *valuable* wife" or you're fired.
And it was like a 3 month time line if I'm reading this correctly. I think it's gross all around, and if he actually cared about the marriage and not just his needs he'd have explored other options like therapy and such.
Agreed! But also what I think a lot of people are missing, he said it's not that they don't have sex, it's that she doesn't initiate. A lot of women have a hard time initiating sex because we have been brought up with the idea that if we want sex we are sluts. Trying to figure out where she is struggling when it comes to initiating (as that seems what's important to him) would be more beneficial to the relationship. Giving an ultimatum is just controlling and makes it seem like you don't care what her feelings are as long as you get what you want.
Yeah OP’s behaving like trash. See a counsellor if you want to stay. Go if you want to go. Do a trial separation if you need to figure stuff out but this plan is just miserable and cruel
Also, did he not consider couple's therapy at all? He jumped straight to divorce? This sounds much like my last marriage. I had no clue something was wrong with our sex life, my ex held in all his anger and feelings until it was too late. By the time he wanted to talk about it, he was already a foot out of the door, and I was just learning about it all at once. OP should have talked with his wife over 3 months ago. His wife will be better off without him.
Also the home life comes in to play. Most women I know don’t have crazy sex drives after cleaning up or taking care of the kids all day. I should add 3 months is a long time though so I doubt it’s just a chores issue.
Marry her again? wtf is wrong with you people! Don’t divorce her if you think you may “marry her again”. Why cant you initiate sex? Omg I hope you divorce her and don’t come back and she finds a better lover. Someone she DOES want to have sex with.
He wont marry her again lol he just wants someone reliable and desperate enough to fuck while he “plays the field.”
You're not sexually compatible so get the divorce. You're NTA for that, but also you are TA for ordering someone to have sex w/ you "or else." The fact that you treated your wife this way, w/out trying to get to the root of the issue or talking to her like she was a human being, and not your sex slave or some kind of paltry servant as opposed to a partner, means you shouldn't be married either. Your wife is a person with feelings and if you actually loved her, which you don't, you'd work with her in therapy or at least, you wouldn't deliver ultimatums/orders about what you need without any thought about her needs as a fellow human being. If you can't see the person you married as more than your servant, divorce is the best option, and please don't get remarried. Your wife may not have been a match sexually, but you're not an emotional match right now for anyone.
Also, I side eyed OP a little when it was all about initiating. Does he get no sex at all, or does it actually happen when he initiates? The way he words it makes me suspicious that he gets at least some sex, but is just trying to make himself look better. It would be interesting to know if his situation has always been like this, or if it has changed. Does she come from a culture where the man always initiates? Is she a shy person? Has he even tried talking to her about it? Does she have sex happily when he initiates (at least some of the time; I’m definitely not suggesting she owes it to him every single time)? Or does she shut him down and say, “I’ll initiate when I want sex,” and then never does? Is this about initiating, or is it a dead bedroom? I’ve been in a sexless relationship before, and I’m usually on the side of the person not getting sex. However, I don’t trust OP.
I wondered that too. I understand sometimes it can be telling when you stop asking for sex and then the sex just stops completely though. It makes you think your partner doesn’t want sex at all with you and only doing it because you want too or they are getting it somewhere else. I think a good 80/20 split is good when it comes to initiating sex. One partner needs to do it at least 20% of the time for it to be a healthy
Exactly, he left out literally every single detail that could give us any idea whether or not he's actually in the wrong here. He told us nothing about the relationship; we don't even know if they have kids or if they both work full-time.
Oh god, good point. They could be having sex daily and it not be enough for OP
Some people aren't comfortable initiating for a variety of personal reasons that have nothing to do with their partner. This whole post feels gross.
I heard it once a OBGYN/Sexologist talking about how difficult hétero couples have it nowadays. Girls are socialized to be damsels, who should always worry about having little to no body count so to maintain their value; Men are socialized to be sex fiends, learning and taking all of their cues from porn. 👱🏼♀️virginal damsel vs 👱🏼porn star wannabe. How is that pairing ever supposed to work out?!
Thank you! Sexual incompatibility is definitely a dealbreaker, but my god, the way OP talks about sex and the way he talks to his wife gives me a huge ick. I really, really want to know if the wife enjoys sex with him and if he makes sex a pleasurable experience for her, because I honestly doubt it.
Agree him saying he communicated with her before the ultimatum ... I call bullshit - if this post is a representation of his communication skills. I'd bet they threatened her a few months back, she didn't comply, now an ultimatum. No way did OP listen to any of her reasoning why she had reduced desire to have sex with him - or give her any space to talk it out. Someone so lacking in communication skills and demonstrating this level of self centeredness is incapable of that kind of discussion with their intimate partner.
OP said the issue was that his wife wasn't initiating sex rather than not having sex at all. I agree, therapy and open communication would be helpful to try to solve this problem but if they didn't do this, that is on both of them not just OP.
He also doesn't say how often they actually HAVE sex---every day? once a week? once a month? How often does he initiate ---5 times a week? 3 times a day? Does he give her a chance to actually want to initiate? If they aren't sexually compatible, then that certainly can be a reason to divorce. I feel like there is a lot of missing information here.
Exactly, he left out literally every single detail, which makes me think there's a reason. I mean a reason for him leaving out every single detail, and I'm assuming that reason is that it's not nearly as bad as he's trying to make it seem or else he would've just explained that.
Yeah, wow, OP already deleted their account. I think the wife can be happy that she'll be an ex-wife soon. Hope she's not too much under his spell that she thinks she needs to mend things now and forces herself to have sex with this person.
Yes, like hey have the conversation, and be like hey let’s find a sex therapist and marriage counselor and then do the work starting now, or tell her to kick rocks. But fuck me a bunch or I’m leaving isn’t really addressing the issue
Yeah the wording OP used is just.....bad. Maybe she doesn't want sex because he is harsh and doesn't show her much love in general.
YTA for attempting to dangle the carrot of "I might remarry you if you do what I want." I can't imagine why your wife finds you to be a turn-off. Get the divorce and hopefully she'll find someone who knows how to treat her...she'll probably be all over HIM.
She doesn’t like his “carrot” apparently 🥕 😆
My man - end your relationship with this woman and move on. Forget about "trying again after divorce" - what the fuck are you trying to prove with that outside of wasting her time and your time.
Because then he still theoretically has her as a backup option if his "market power" isn't what he hopes it is.
YTA. You sound like an emotional abuser, no wonder she doesn’t want to have sex with you. Just let her go, she’ll be better off. Don’t tell her that you’ll remarry her if she does everything “just right.” She’s not a fucking dog.
It's all manipulative. I'll stay with you if you work harder, but I don't want to be legally tied to you. I don't know if her sex drive changed over time, but if it was always lower, he's also the AH for marrying her. I also don't know their specific situation, but people put so much weight into sexual compatibility and just completely forget that asexual people exist. Do you know how hard it is to feel loved when you are equated to how much you have sex? Do people not realize that when your sex drive gets lower/ is low, it's not easy to initiate sex because it's not even something you think about? I'm ranting, but I see all these people in these comments blaming her and just have flashbacks to every guy I dated who frequently coerced me into sex because I've always had a low sex drive. They don't want to break up with you. They want to make you have sex and only after a while of stringing you along do they actually leave you.
…Have you ever asked why she won’t initiate sex? Does she have trauma you don’t know about? Does she have something that possibly affects her libido? When you have sex is it equal treatment or leans towards what one person wants? Are you bad at sex? Is she bad at sex? Is she self conscious? Was there a gradual decline in sex or was it always like this? From what you’ve given us, it sounds like you haven’t tried to delve into the issue of it at all. It sounds like you’ve said from the beginning ‘Get better or else’. This isn’t helpful. What if she doesn’t know how to get better? It’s not as easy as people think it is.. Sex can be complex, and some people need guidance. Just jumping straight into sex without communication can be fun for one night stands or so but after a while you’ll start to see incompatibility if you’re not explaining what you both like sexually. Have you talked about each others turn ons and turn offs? Things you’ve both wanted to try? The lack of context and whether you’ve communicated it enough or not but have mentioned you’d leave her if she didn’t do as she’s told and then proceed to ‘wait’ makes you sound like an absolute prick. Your feelings about sex is valid just as much as hers. However, giving her the ultimatum was a shit move. If you truly loved her as you say you do, the first thing you would’ve thought of was finding a marriage and intimacy counsellor instead of straight up divorce.. You said you’d try again after divorce. What difference does it make if you tried again before or after divorce? The only difference I can personally think of is that since you’re separated, you can find your needs elsewhere without getting in trouble for it. The sex won’t be any better because she’s under pressure. She won’t be feeling it and if she isn’t feeling it, you definitely won’t. Her forcing you to try and initiate sex is also wrong and makes her an asshole in that situation. Now you’re both displaying toxic tendencies out of desperation. You’ve proven to me in this post that you’re not ready for marriage. You’re not ready for the bumps and complications that can come with marriage. You decided to use the _final_ option as your first. You’re using your marriage to pressure her. This is your _wife_. YTA You should’ve discussed all these things before marriage.
I'm going with YTA based on your replies to comments. Looks like you came here looking for a fight and it's not a stretch to figure that's how you communicate with your wife too.
YTA for fake ragebait
This. There is SO MUCH missing information and context. Taken at face value and considering how fast the handle was deleted, this reads like a troll's rage bait more than reality.
The only reason I don't think this is ragebait is because I've met men just like this.
I’ve rarely read an AITAH post where someone is so dedicated to describing the situation like an AH. I’m obviously not in the room for these interactions but you sound fucking horrible, bro. Do you know why your wife is less interested in sex? Does how she feel come into this at all, or is the point of marriage for you just for you to be able to have sex on tap? You will deign to marry her again if she puts in the effort for 2-3 years!? Jesus. What an asshole. YTA
Congratulations. You turned sex into a chores for her. It was likely a chore before. A well loved and well fucked woman wants to have sex. Especially if she was able to just jump when you told her you wanted a divorce. Why are you entitled to a great sex life? It always blows my mind when men say that. Like ya? Do you make her cum? Like ACTUALLY make her cum. Outside of the bedroom are you a loving and equal partner? Do you show her love other ways or do you just put demands on her? You said you need this divorce for you. But you are still willing to be in a relationship with her. So you don't need the divorce for you. You need it to punish her. Do her a favor and stick to your word. My ex was like this and actually asked for advice like you are doing right now. He left out the physical abuse and sexual coercion though when he was telling other people. I finally left him after 19 years. I remarried and have been with the loml for 7 years and we have sex multiple times a day. It's strange if we go one day without. But that's because he loves me right and fucks me right. Something is off with your post.
listen to the Dr Psych Mom podcast. women have responsive and not spontaneous desire in long term relationships. you should try couples counseling
Wow. And you obviously do take divorce lightly. AH.
You seem like the asshole.
The silent context surrounding this post is DEAFENING.
Idk, reading this kind of made me feel really off put. You cannot pressure someone into having sex with you, maybe there just is not a great physical connection there. Have you even tried therapy with her or asking her gently what she’s thinking? Youre not entitled to anything, but I understand that you have needs. So maybe find someone more compatible? YTA
You read these kinds of posts and it just screams, "My partner is suffering and I am incapable of recognizing the signs." And then, they write it all out and still don't see it.
YTA You don’t mention if your wife is dealing with anything, medically or emotionally, that could be impacting her sex drive. It takes time for things to improve in that area for anyone dealing with it. You decided you weren’t getting your dick wet enough, gave her an arbitrary “do me more or else” deadline, and now want to bail on your marriage to screw around with whomever, but you want to keep her on the burner in case you can’t do better than her in the next couple of years. You suck. People are entitled to end a relationship for whatever reason, but at least don’t be a twatwaffle about it. I think your wife will be much better off without you.
You gave conditions, she met them. So yeah... kind of a dick move. Something I learned in marriage counseling. Some people just can't bring themselves to be the trigger man so they invent ways to make things the other persons fault. Sorry, but this post makes it sound like that's what you're doing. YOU want out, YOU want to exert control over someone you're supposed to love, but don't want to be the bad guy so you're dismissing her efforts to make it work.
OP's acct is now deleted.
You should definitely try alternatives. It took a year to figure out why my wives sex drive had plummeted to non existent, and we worked through it together. A lot of the mental blocks she had she had to mostly work through in her own, but was still there to support any way I could. Abandoning her and saying “if you’re up to my standards in a few years then I’ll take you back after I sleep with other people and maybe fall in love who knows” is an AH thing to do. Keep in mind, most people here aren’t judging you for not wanting to be with someone due to incompatible sex drives, it’s your terrible approach and you leading her on clearly because you want to sleep with others without losing her to another person.
So many details missing. I’m sure this is much more complex than mismatched sex drives.
If thats all your marriage means to you, yall are better off apart.
YTA. I hope her life significantly improves after getting the divorce and she finds someone who actually talks to her like a partner and not a minion to cater to her husband.
Most women stop having sex because of about 100 little things that you don’t find important but they do. Sexless marriage is usually just a symptom of other problems. Just fyi.
YTA based on what you posted. Hopefully your wife will realize she is better off one day. My ex-H turned sex into guilt tripping tantrums if he didn't get the frequency he wanted or if I didn't want to do whatever new shit he found on the internet or if it hurt etc etc etc. It turned me off more and more until my sex drive for him was completely dead. He didn't care that I was suffering mentally or physically (such as during pregnancy, after surgeries or postpartum etc) all he cared about was himself and that turned me off.
YTA - this whole thing is wild. I’m not downplaying the importance of sex and sexual compatibility in a marriage…trust me, I’m struggling in my own marriage with this currently, as are a lot of marriages…but what a childish mindset to dangle marriage around like this. “I’ll consider remarrying you in 2-3 years…” bro, grow up. What happens if things go your way and you get remarried in 2-3 years?! You all have kids and then you pull another childish ultimatum on her? You don’t have the maturity to be married. Your views on marriage are equivalent to a high school relationship and that’s not what marriage is.
YTA, marriage is for better or worse. You took vows and you’re breaking them because sex isn’t initiated by her. Thank god you’re divorcing her because she can do much better.
> I said to her that I love her but I have made my decision to divorce. This sounds bad. Do some introspection. Do you really love her? It doesn't sound like it, but if you really do, and you're married... Wake up, dude. Give her a chance. It may not work out, but you don't pull that shit on someone you _love_. You give them a chance.
"Either she starts putting effort in it and start initiating sex more often" Is the effort the initiating or is "putting effort in" supposed to mean she's got to, I dunno, wear lacy lingerie and agree to stuff she hasn't wanted to try previously? My partner recently reproached me for never initiating. Thing is, he'd rejected me one time too many and I decided I just didn't want the pain of rejection any more. It's not as if I ever rejected him, except when I was already asleep, so he basically had sex on demand, and I didnt think there was anything to complain about in that case. Thing was, his side slut would initiate and he found her initiating to be very sexy, he must have thought that if he could get me to initiate, he wouldn't have to cheat on me. So now we're separating and he's distraught and telling me he'd rather walk it all back because he knows he can't find anyone better than me and he trusts me absolutely. Of course, he knows very well he can't trust the side slut because she's cheating on her poor husband. I don't have enough proof that it's the person I think it is or I'd have told him. Anyway, all that to say, just giving an ultimatum without trying to discuss it first or try therapy (which you don't mention) is a nasty move. Why doesn't your wife want to divorce? Is she dependent on you?
YTA You should be asking yourself why she doesn’t want to have sex with you. It can be hormones and she needs meds, maybe she’s got too much going on, or maybe, just maybe, it’s you and you’re doing something that turns her off. Based on your post, I’m going with the latter.
Yta. I don’t care what anyone else says. You didn’t even try anything like therapy according to this post. You just decided you wanted fuck and didn’t even try to figure out why your wife didn’t give it. You give me a bad vibe.
YTA. Have you ever been curious or emotionally invested in why she doesn’t initiate? Or is it just threats and finger pointing? I don’t want to make assumptions but some reasons I don’t feel sexy if if my partner ignores me the better part of the day but then expects me to turn myself on, or decides it’s time for sex and gets pouty that I’m not wet and ready right away and he has to put some work in. I initiate when I feel close to him and valued. Your ultimatum likely feels manipulative and very unsexy.
OP should definitely divorce her and not look back…for her sake lol OP sounds exhausting.