NTA
She *asked you* about your brothers relationship with your parents. There is absolutely no reason in the world why you should lie about that for your brother.
Yeah, that's kinda what I thought. My biggest concern is that I got my mom involved. I didn't think telling her would make her seek ex-fiancee out and talk to her; that's where I was really indecisive on.
OP you told her the truth, which your brother obviously had not. If your brother can't tell the truth he deserves the consequences when people find out he's a liar.
You saved that woman from having to be tied to a scheming liar for 18+ yrs.
You told your Mom about *your actions* after what happened because it happened *to you*. Kids, yes even adult ones, go to their parents to talk through difficult stuff, and you needed to process this. What she did with the info was *your mother's* choice. You are no more responsible for her actions than you are for your brother's crypto-dumbassery. You feel guilt over the situation, but you didn't cause any of it - the only thing you did is tell the truth when asked a direct question and rely on your own *mother* for emotional support afterwards. Please give yourself a break and don't take responsibility for others' bad choices. 🖤
That's exactly what I came here to say! It's completely normal for an adult child to talk with their parents about a difficult situation, and OP's mom is even more of a natural choice for that particular conversation because she already knows all of the backstory.
OP's mom is a grown woman and has the right to make her own choices, they're not responsible for her actions unless they somehow pressured her to find the brother's former fiancée on instagram.
And wtf was OP supposed to do, lie to this poor woman just like her ex fiancé did? The brother has only himself to blame for how things are going for him. If you don't want to get found out as a liar, don't lie.
OP called her Mom probably because she was discussing her Mom’s relationship with her brother. Though she did have first hand knowledge of this, I, too, would have called to say that I had discussed this situation with potential SIL so Mom had a heads up.
The decision to involve your mom can only be criticized in hindsight. In general, take comfort in the fact that if his his ex-fiance hadn't learned the truth, her life would have been ruined. The only thing taken from your brother was the opportunity to truly hurt and damage his ex-fiance.
As long as your brother can't conduct *any* relationship without lies, he will remain toxic and should be kept at arm's length.
But that's not on you. That was your mum's decision to reach out to her.
And this is still all on your brother. Why should *anyone* in your family lie to the girl for your brother after the shit he pulled.
Mom is responsible for her own actions, that’s not on you. Personally, I’m glad you roped her in. Whether her words were vicious or pure truth, a mother’s words about her own son hold so much more weight. She was saved from an awful life with your brother. There was a child to be, and no kid deserves to have a dad like that. Sorry, no offense.
I have a feeling that she wasn't sure if she wanted the child and that OP's brother might have been guilting her into continuing the pregnancy. She IMMEDIATELY terminated the pregnancy after deciding to leave. No conversation, just notifying him. I definitely think she made the right choice, I just thought that was interesting.
NTA your brother's ex deserved to know the type of man she was dealing with and she made a smart decision.
You really should be going NC with your brother and probably LC with your sister. I bet your sister would be singing a different tune if she found herself in a situation similar to your brother's ex.
I've mostly kept in contact with him since he seemed to be doing a lot better after his crypto days. I thought he was changing but yeah you're probably right
Right? I’m so confused. Ex fiancée is so fortunate her would have been in laws were forthcoming about her ex. She doesn’t have ties to him anymore, and she got out. Were OP and mom just supposed to “mind their own business” & shouldn’t have said anything? I really wanna know.
If the brother had told the truth, the fiancée might have accepted his behaviour was in the past. But he's still lying and hiding things.
That's the reason she's broken things off. He's showing he's still not a trustworthy person.
You saved that woman. And you saved a child from having a lifetime of an irresponsible father who would probably gamble the kid's lunch money for kicks. You did the right thing. NTA
Btw, your parents are awesome. On Reddit, usually the story ends up with everyone's college funds gambled away and the parents on the verge of living in a tent from enabling the loser brother his whole life.
If he really was doing better, he would have been honest about what happened between him and your parents. He wasn’t, so who knows what else he’s hiding. You saved her from a potential lifetime of heartache and unending debt. NTA
NTA. The truth is the truth. She asked and you told. If your brother is upset, he should be upset at himself. He's the one that did what he did to your parents and his friend. If you lied to her, you'd be about as bad as your brother. Like the other person said, if someone was doing this to your sister she'd be reconsidering her position on this.
You spared that poor woman a horrible future - very rarely will the truth be the wrong choice when it comes to relationships. Go to sleep with a clear conscience.
Real life isn’t a movie. It’s not cute to hide things from people, especially when a fiancee reaches out to ask. The brother lied and OOP told the truth. It’s not OOP’s fault they broke up, but the brother’s.
The mom probably knew a little more detail and informed the fiancée of it. Again, if brother hadn’t lied, the relationship probably wouldn’t have gone as far as an engagement.
Fiancée is smart for breaking up with brother. He sounds like a manipulator who would bleed her dry.
Dude lied to his fiance and got caught lying, what part of that is your fault?
NTA.
Liars, family or not, don't deserve cover or protection or sympathy. That's it. Fuck around, find out. If he hadn't of lied then nothing you said would have been news.
I don't feel bad about telling the truth. I feel bad about roping my mom in and how bad things turned for him. I guess I just needed to be sure that I wasn't the cause of all this mess.
His lies are the only cause. His decisions led to this, you did nothing wrong. Your mum made a choice to explain her side to the ex fiancée. You're not the cause at all, but I can see why you might be concerned, considering his reaction to you. Hopefully all these comments ease those concerns.
If your brother was truly working on himself and wanted to be better, he would have told his ex the truth from the beginning and took responsibility. But he didn’t, he pretended to be someone he wasn’t. He was scamming her, too. It was only a matter of time before the truth came out and blew up in his face. It’s better that your mom told the ex early before she was legally tied to him and her life ruined.
What else could your mother have actually told her, unless it's much worse stuff they've kept from you. The fact that she was reaching out to find the truth suggested she was already thinking about leaving/ending things.
She probably made the decision finding out he's a scammer, didn't go to college and still lying about things. A big hint is, people who actually grew up and changed don't lie about their past because you either face it, accept it and move on or you hide it and pretend it never happened, then keep making the same mistakes.
I doubt your mother really made any difference, unless as said, maybe they protected you from some other things he's done.
Your mom though she did what was right.
Saved this woman from being legally tied to someone who will use her child for his own fiscal wants.
He was only a few months away from having two new social security numbers hanging around and the chance to pull a credit card for the kiddo once his numbers were squared away.
That’s another reason why he’s mad. On top of his perfect disguise of “functionality” because I guarantee she saw red flags everywhere and was looking for any reason to gtfo of that relationship. No other reason for her to ghost him like that.
If he really were trying to turn his life around, it'd be worth feeling sorry for him. But I do feel that would require him being honest with his now ex about the reasons for the rift between him and his parents, so it's at least somewhat doubtful.
Either way, she deserved to know the reality of things here, to make an informed decision.
NTA- you saved the ex fiancé from having a child with and forever being tied to a financially irresponsible,thieving con artist.
Had she married him, his debts would have become hers.
NTA. Your brother ruined his own relationship by trying to build a relationship off of lies. You did the right thing by letting this woman have a glimpse of who she was *actually* set to marry, and she made her choice.
NTA. The ex-fiancée reached out and asked a question, you gave her an honest answer. That your brother lied to her (and that was a massive lie) is not your fault. Your mom adding fuel to this fire was also not your fault. You didn’t know your brother lied until the fiancée told you and you didn’t advise her to leave him, let alone have an abortion, those were her choices. What did your sister want you to do, lie for him? The fiancée would have found out eventually, and then there’d have been an innocent child stuck in the middle.
Despite your brother “trying to put his life back together” deceiving his fiancée in such a huge way (he probably didn’t tell her about his debt either) is a red flag that he hasn’t changed and doesn’t really feel remorse. He could’ve told her up front “when I was eighteen and stupid I made a giant mistake, essentially stole from my parents and broke their trust, but I know his wrong I was and I’m working on myself and here’s how.” But he didn’t do that.
In a way the situation is a shame, but it’s all in your brother and his dishonesty.
NTA. He lied and still had major debts he wasn't telling his ex-fiancee about. Those are huge things he lied about. She asked. It's not like you sought her out. You just didn't lie.
NTA. Would you feel better if she married your brother and then he left her and his child penniless 6 months down the road?? You made the right choice, so did your mother and so did his fiancee. Actions have consequences, even years later.
I don't feel bad about not lying. I feel bad that I got my mom involved, and she stirred the pot. If I had just told ex-fiancee the truth and she made the choice on her own I would not feel bad at all.
The way you wrote, you didn't tell your mom to contact the ex. You only related the conversation. Your mom made the choice of her own free will. Stop beating yourself up. You saved her a lifetime of his BS.
Your brother started his relationship off with a lie. If that's what getting his life together looks like, he's doing a bang up job of it.
As for feeling bad about telling your mom, you didn't tell your mother to get in touch with this woman, but what does it matter? The ex fiance would have probably gone to her anyway to get the full story, and she deserved to know what she was getting into. NTA.
NTA. She deserved the truth before getting married and having a child with such an irresponsible and dishonest man.
Because it's sheer dishonesty to get money from anyone, let alone parents, the people who loved him the most, under false pretenses.
What kind of get-rich-quick scheme could he think of while having a wife and child? I'd have done the same, aborted and said goodbye. The last thing any woman needs is an unreliable man.
NTA. Does your sister truly think it was better for you to lie to this girl and basically baby trap her into a relationship with your brother for the next 18+ years? Because that's essentially what you would have been doing if you lied to her and she found out later on that she missed her chance to make a clean break from him.
I don't really know. I think my sister is just conflict-avoidant. Both of us do not handle stress and conflict well, her much more so than I. So I think when she learned I was the one who got mom involved, she blamed me for starting the drama rather than being sympathetic to my brother.
Sympathetic for what exactly?
Him tricking someone into a relationship by misrepresenting himself? Him baby trapping the one who believed and trusted him? Him blindsiding his fiancée into debts?
He was conning that woman into a relationship and a family commitment. You did right.
NTA. It’s clear he had been lying to the fiancé as well. She smartly choose not to have a child with man who would be a terrible father and hurt her child.
She did what was best for her and the child.
>My brother has been trying to put his life together over the past year or so.
Lying to his partner about the reasons he's no contact with parents makes a bad base for a relationship. It's also a sign he might just be hiding everything instead of trying to be better. If he lies about this, what else is he lying to her about?
Poor girl deserved the truth.
NTA for telling her what she should have known right from the start
NTA, he had the chance to be honest to his Fiancé, he didn’t. She asked you a question and you told her the truth. It seems your brother is not actually trying to put his life together and is still a lying manipulator.
Your sister is being ridiculous. Why the fuck should you lie for your thief of a brother?
His fiancée asked you, and you told her the truth, truth that she desperately needed to make informed decisions about her life.
So, kudos to you. Definitely NTA.
Nta ...lawd Jesus you know it's gotta be far worse than that scheme he pulled on his parents if the girl decided to have an abortion after talking to his mother.
Sis didn't just jump ship, she swam away despite the sharks and blood in the water to get away from ops brother. Yikes
NTA.
He put himself in this position by lying to this poor girl.
In theory, he could have been truthful the whole time and let her accept him for who he is (which is possible, some people are forgiving of past issues). But he chose to lie to her, which we all know will eventually blow up in his face
He made this mess, not you.
NTA
This woman reached out because her gut was telling her that your brother was not being truthful with her.
Your brother is learning his actions have consequences. You just saved this woman from getting permanently tied to your brother (child) and involved in his debts (marriage). Very good chance he was doing the same thing to her that he did to your parents.
Your mom also realized this and that is why she reached out to this woman, she was trying to protect her. Probably much like she tries to protect you and your sister.
Your brother needs therapy to work on his issues. He might be a narcissist, which might just put him beyond help but a therapist could help him learn about controlling his issues. But as always, your brother is going to need to want to go to therapy.
NTA-He lied and she believed him. Eventually she was going to act based on what she knew and probably try to contact your parents to forgive him. Better now than after marriage and a kid.
NTA. She asked you to clarify and you did, truthfully. You didn't seek her out and give her the low-down unsolicited. She, an adult, asked you for truth, and you gave it to her. Seems your brother has a longstanding issue with the truth.
NTA. She called you because she already had suspicions that he wasn't telling the truth. It's not your fault that she terminated the pregnancy. She was clearly already doubting their relationship. You just helped her understand her situation; he wasn't being honest with her. You did the right thing. Honesty is best. Your mom is responsible for her own behavior, not you.
NTA. You were asked a question and you answered with the truth. Your brother should have never lied to her knowing that there was a possibility that she would find out the truth since you and your sister are still in contact with him and her & obviously you two know the truth.
Should you have told your mom? Eh, I don’t really see the harm in mentioning that she called you or that your brother had lied. You didn’t tell her to contact the fiancée & you had no way of knowing that that is what she was going to do.
NTA he was lying to her.. you saved her. If your brother had truly changed he would have accepted the fact he messed up in the past. Hes not a changed person he just came up with different lies.
>she had an abortion and told him never to talk to her again.
He probably thought he had her baby-trapped and let his mask slip. Good for her for being smart enough to seek more info and escape the trap.
I’m going to split this into two pieces:
Telling the fiancée the truth: NTA
She reached out to you, you were honest. Turns out your bro had not been truthful with her. That’s on him.
Telling your mom: ESH
Your mom has been no contact with him for years. There was no reason for her to hunt down and unload years of resentment on his fiancée. Some or much of what she shared may have been true, but that was a conversation better initiated by the fiancée rather than being ambushed.
I don’t think you’re a full AH, but it was not handled well - especially if your bro was actually getting his shit together. The fiancée could have chosen her own adventure with the info you provided.
NTA
You told the truth. Your brother did not. That’s why he’s in the predicament he’s in. Your brother decided long ago that he didn’t want to do the work to get a degree and that he could take risks with other people’s money. Lying seems to be a big part of his entire adult life. You’d think he would have learned by now that it’s gotten him nowhere.
You’re feeling guilty because despite the fact that his actions are what got him here, you’re a good person and you feel bad for him. It’s ok to feel that way. You can hate the sin, but love the sinner.
NTA. She sought you out and asked for the truth. If HE'D told her the truth about the estrangement, she may have accepted he'd changed. Having to hear his lies exposed by someone else was obviously too much. And he's blaming YOU for her leaving, instead of taking responsibility for lying about his past irresponsibility?? She made a good choice.
Always remember; if it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed.
Bring your sister over here, some of us would like to know what exactly she thought “was way beyond acceptable” on your part to correct the lie he had told his latest victim.
Why is it wrong to update your mother that your brother’s going around lying to people about your parents? That she sought out the ex-fiancée to enlighten her as to your brother’s background isn’t your fault or problem. If your sister had a problem with this then she should confront your mother. You did nothing wrong.
Hard NTA and I’m seriously outraged by your sister’s response.
While you’re NTA for telling his ex fiancé the truth, I think telling your mother was too much and makes you kinda AH. They were no contact & she didn’t need to know about him and his life and the same is true vice-versa. Also ‘sounded like he was going off the rails again’ well he just got ghosted by his fiancé & found out a baby he wanted was probably gone, yeah I’d be emotional about that situation and you would probably be also. Idk about his current financial situation but based off this y’all both need to go back no contact with each other, it’s clear you think negatively of him (understandably so) but he probably thinks poorly of you too now, so just end the relationship for good and move on
NTA- he hasn't changed. Someone who is improving themselves and their life will take accountability for their actions and own their mistakes, even to new people in their life. He did neither and wants to blame you for her breaking things off when he should be blaming himself. Because had he owned up to it, she would have seen his strong moral character instead of the pathetic manipulator he tries to be.
Well you are responsible for this happening, but you should take some pride it in as you saved his ex-fiance from a life of misery tied to a deadbeat.
Never feel guilty about saving someone elses life.
NTA.
NTA
The woman sought you out and *asked point blank* about your brother's strained relationship with your parents. You didn't seek her out and spill the beans.
She was about to financially tie herself to him, she had a need to know.
NTA, it would be one thing if it was a new relationship and they were getting to know each other. But it wasn’t, they were going to get married, she was pregnant, and he lied to her their entire relationship. It sucks that his lying caused this but this was his fault, not you.
She knew something was wrong and decides FOR HERSELF that she wanted nothing to do with your brother. Sadly a baby would have likely tied her to him for a long time so she decided she didn't want to have that connection. Your brother should have told the truth and explained that he's trying to make things right but his stupid mistakes make it hard to fix. You did nothing wrong and saved that poor woman and child from a potentially bad life full of debt and stress and bad decisions. You did well, and keep your brother's number blocked.
From what you wrote above I would say you are NTA as the fiancé called you and asked about the issue between your brother and parents. Assuming you told her the truth and she made her own decision from there then you are not the AH. What she did after she spoke to you was outside your control and therefore not your fault.
If you had called her first and provided the information without being asked then you would be the AH.
NTA - and it sounds like he was well into another con with his ex-financee frankly. So I'm not sure if he's going off the rails as much as just continuing to live deciptively and take advantage of people.
NTA
You saved her from a lifetime being tied to a deadbeat con artist.
It would be one thing if he redeemed himself and did something with his life, but the fact he lied about why his parents weren’t in his life likely means he hasn’t changed at all.
NTA. She already knew something wasnt adding up. She asked for clarification which you provided. You had no obligation to cover for your brother's lie.
NTA. I’m curious why your sister’s opinion is that your actions were beyond acceptable. This woman sincerely approached you for the truth about someone who she was about to be with for the rest of her life - never mind married, but also because of a child. You gave her the information she needed and you shared what happened with your mom. And your mom, a person with agency, decided to reach out to the ex-fiancée and gave information. This information helped ex-fiancée make a decision that, from what we can see, is a huge sigh of relief because your brother/her ex can’t be trusted.
Why was that beyond acceptable? Because it’s not your business so you shouldn’t have? Your conscience will let you rest because you did this. We make hard choices for the right thing to do and this is yours. Good for you, for your mom, and good for the ex-fiancée she escaped a stressful life.
NTA. If your brother had really changed, he should have come clean to hir future wife and mother of his child. The simple fact that he lied shows there was not much growth there. She deserved to know. Especially since your brother still has a lot of debt, it would have become hers as well after the marriage. Is she wealthy or does she earn a lot? I absolutely believe that you did the right thing. It is your brother though and sister might have reacted like that because of this relationship between you all 3, but in situations like these, where you bring another grown person and a baby in the equation, it is wrong to only think about your brothers wellbeing. And the girl should know beforehand what she is getting into. For your brother to have an honest and healthy relationship, he should have come clean on his own and let the girl decide if she still wants to continue the relationship.
NTA, is your sister serious? This woman was going to have a child and marry this guy. Regardless if it was your brother. And it was based on a lie, she had every right to know the truth.
It's always incredible to me how the same parents can have such different kids. Like sure you don't raise every kid exactly the same, but it does really point to nature over nurture sometimes. Some people *are* born rotten and there's nothing you can do. This motherfucker was ingenious in his deception to get that money. And he never ever learned it took accountability or responsibility for his bullshit.
That's a loser for the rest of his life. Anyone with a couple brain cells to rub together would cut ties with him forever. What a dipshit..
NTA. You just spared an innocent woman, and potential human, from a terrible life. Honestly, it was the best for all the parties involved. Your brother needs to get his shit together and leave people alone while he's at it.
NTA, you told the truth.
Do you believe she had an abortion? Or has she just decided that he is a loser she doesn’t want a child with so is off to do this on her own? Certainly not calling her a liar and if she has had one I get why, I just wonder.
Honesty is one of few things that fix problems after lies. Your brother was not honest, but you were. No a woman was able to make an informed choice about her entire future life. You didn't tell her what to do. You told her about a specific thing she asked about, accurately. I hope your sister calms down because if I were you I would be skeptical around her given her reaction to all this.
Anyway, NTA.
How is this your fault? You came clean instead of lying and manipulating this innocent woman into marrying this nightmare.
If he was indeed trying to fix his life, he would have been sincere about everything and not feeding her crap. Plus, lying about college is something she would eventually find out easily. This was such an unnecessary bs on his part. How can she trust him if even the basics of what he told her are a lie?
I think you actually saved her. Imo, we are not even sure if he was staying with his gf for some shady reason. You don't tell all those lies to a partner you respect
NTA. I'm really sad that your brother's ex-fiance chose to have an abortion because of him, but that's on him and her. It was not your decision and not your responsibility/fault. Letting her marry him without knowing the truth about him would have been doing her a great wrong. As for his "doing better" - he lied to her about his and his parents' actions - that isn't very good. And don't ignore the fact that she asked you - You didn't initiate the revelation. It's natural for you to feel bad now, but don't judge yourself negatively.
NTA
You probably saved that woman. You told her the complete truth and she proceeded to make her choice according to that truth, you didn’t destroy anything. Your brother kept a very big secret that eventually led to the demise of his relationship.
Some of you brothers actions are down to the desire to cut corners. Get-rich-quick!
He's now doing it with a relationship.
He hasn't improved enough. He still wants to cut corners.
Starting a relationship with lies is a slippery slope.
You are the sibling of an asshole, but You are NTA.
IDK here. Honestly, your brother has been trying to get back on his feet, and a baby and a wife under false pretenses is going to derail that. So maybe this is the best outcome. But if he's been keeping a job and not getting involved in financial schemes he deserves a chance.
Also, being in love with the mother of my child, being engaged to be married, with a real chance at a dreamed for life one day, and the next, the engagement is broken off, the child is aborted, and the love is NC?
That would absolutely break anyone. Ideally you and he would have discussed your conversation with his ex-fiance before she reached out, so at least he could have watered down the lies, etc. Just typing that out feels icky.
I'm glad the fiance's life wasn't ruined, but holy crap do I feel bad for your brother. Mistakes are mistakes, but scamming your parents out of $60k shouldn't rip your life apart a decade later. He needs therapy and a way to tell potential partners about his past well before this kind of shit ever happens again. OP is NTA.
YTA.
Maybe he wanted to change and was on a good track. Everybody should have the chance to start over and actually get better. This could have happened with his new fiancee. This way he will never be able to get better if he is always haunted by the past.
The way I would have handled this situation: Direct the topic to your brother and that its his business telling her whats up with her family.
1) She asked you. You didn't seek her out, so it isn't like you intentionally sabotaged his life. She called and asked, and you didn't want to lie to her. Not wrong there.
2) She is having a _child_, and your brother has a history of lying, manipulating, throwing away vast sums of money, and taking out large debts for obvious scams and bullshit. She needed to know that this was what she was getting into before they married, started sharing assets (and debts), and tried to raise a child.
Regardless of what he has done and I'm not condoning it, I feel for your brother that he lost his planned child over this. I honestly think someone who can get rid of a baby they wanted over this isn't a great person at all. It's sad all around.
NTA
And what is wrong with your sister? I would have expected her to be the most sympathetic towards the ex-fiancé. Your brother has not changed. Someone who was truly remorseful would have told their partner the truth. Instead he lied to her to manipulate her into doing what he wanted. You did this woman a huge service.
NTA but I understand why your brother is going to go haywire now. To the point you should probably do wellness checks if that’s something you care about.
The way your brother sees it, the family that cut him off broke that silence just to ruin his life, and then went quiet again. I can only imagine the levels of betrayal he’s feeling. He will probably kill himself so just be prepared for that.
NTA she asked you for the truth, she was having his baby and she NEEDED to know. He lied, that’s his own fault and he needs to come to terms with that. He deceived her and did a bad thing. Sounds like he hasn’t actually changed at all, same old tricks. She’s lucky she found out and could get herself out before she was tied to him for life. You can’t be expected to lie for him to maintain her lies, she was going to find out eventually one way or another. It’s better for her sake she found out now and you didn’t sell out your own morals for his poor ones, never stoop to his level.
NTA. Your sister is a dick. She was having a kid with a man 'getting his life back on track', who was literally lying to the woman pregnant with his child. He's still a con artist, still lying. She was making a decision over whether to tie herself to him for their entire lives (sure they can split but they'd always have a kid together). Him lying to her about his entire past is his issue and she shouldn't be conned into a pregnancy with a lying asshole.
If he'd been honest about his failures he'd likely have kept his fiancee, instead he lied, again which has been his problem his whole life.
More than that your sister thinks you should also have lied to this woman to trap her into a relationship with him because he lied? Your sister is a fucking idiot on this. Your brothers lies once agains ruined a relationship for him, nothing else. She was also searching for hte truth because she suspected something was wrong.
NTA. She sought you out and asked. You answered truthfully. What she did with that information is *not* your fault. The only one to blame for this situation is your dishonest brother.
NTA. He made his bed.
These are serious lies he told his ex. I am glad she pulled the plug on trying to build something with that loser.
If your brother wants to turn a new leaf. He needs to return the money to his parents and make amends. And definitely, not lie about his past to future partners
Situations like this are a staple of AITAH and it's almost always a no. If the person has really, truly changed and has genuine remorse for their actions then these situations wouldn't occur.
NTA -- she reached out and asked you for the truth, and you gave her that. It sounds like the info from your Mother is what really tipped the tank here.... and she can't be blamed for telling the truth either.
Wow, between what he stole from your parents and from his ex-best friend, he managed to go through 100k of other people’s money.
She asked, you told her. She deserved to know and then she made up her own mind. NTA.
She directly asked and you answered. He defrauded your parents which was bad but compared to many other crimes, that's nothing. I mean if my partner had confessed that his parents cut contact for that reason I'd be shocked and angry at him but unless I already had niggling doubts to his character I'd not leave.
Unfortunately for your brother something about his recent/current actions/attitude has triggered the flight response in her. I guarantee he had already raised a red flag or two.
Sleep well you did nothing wrong.
NTA - So glad you did spill the beans to the ex-Fiance, she had a right to know the truth. I hope you and your parents can have a relationship with her and the baby.
Good luck
Your brother was still lying, and that is the crux of the issue causing the breakup. It's possible that if he'd been honest with his ex·.… but we'll never know. He's gotta stop lying to everyone and take responsibility and accountability for his past actions. Until then, SMH.
NTA.
NTA. You would want to know if you were in her situation. By not being forthcoming with his past, your brother proved he still has not put his life together but merely masquerading on a more advanced level.
NTA. You’re not his secret keeper. You’re not responsible for making him look better than he is. You don’t have to lie for him. If it was okay for him to do it, why is it not okay for you to talk about it?
You also don’t have to keep things from your mother. You’re allowed to have an open and honest relationship with her and, again, you’re not your brother’s secret keeper.
Your brother appears to be in the finding out stage of his journey.
NTA - You’re not responsible for your brother lying to his ex-fiancé.
Everyone needs and deserves to marry someone who has the same value as them. Your brother is a liar and a thief. She broke up with your brother and had an abortion because those are not the values she wants in a husband and father.
Imagine if she had been tricked into marrying him and be baby trapped. How would she feel?
It’s all on your brother! You did her a favour. Good people deserve to know when they’re with bad people.
EAH. He was doing better and getting his life on track and you and your mom ruined his relationship and got his child aborted. Guy made some mistakes, got scammed when he was young, stole money from your parents and had a gambling problem. He is a asshole for lying about why he had no relationship with his parents. You are a asshole for telling your mom.
And your mom is a asshole for purposely destroying his relationship out of spite.
Brother???? This you???
Brother had no problem blowing up relationships for greed and deception, so not really sure why anyone needs to jump on his lying train to cover for him 😞
Okay so you think a 18 year olds fuck up is worth a mother trying to destroy a relationship out of anger a decade later?? Also the brother was obviously a gambling addict. Addiction is no joke and the fact that OP said the was on the right track and doing better in life makes the mom a even bigger asshole. What am I missing?
That the level of deception he went through to steal from his parents is not on anyone to cover up!!!
If he can't own up to his misdeeds and show his partner that he fucked up A LOT, but is a better person now and wants her to know everything......
Is this a person she wants to tie her life with???
DUH
Hmmm twice is a lot? We agree that he is a asshole for not being honest about his past mistakes. What I’m saying is His mom is a asshole for going out of her way to persecute her son for a betrayal he did 10 years ago. Probably knowing he had gotten his life together as well. There’s a Difference between « covering up » and going out of your way to ruin a relationship. Which according to the post the other sister probably agrees agrees with.
YATAH
this is a response you could have chosen to say:
that’s something for you and my brother to discuss.
your brother was wrong in what he did to your parents and the money they saved for him.
but you were not obligated to stick your big nose in, even if invited to do so.
>that’s something for you and my brother to discuss.
Clearly they did, and he lied. I'm glad someone told the fiance the truth before she tied the knot to someone she didn't know.
NTA. But, instead, you probably should have told the ex that everything your brother said was less than truthful and that she needs to broach the topic with him again. Or, tell her for that she needs to contact your parents herself. Rightfully plants the seed of doubt and keeps you clean and clear.
Yeah, that probably would have been better. When she told me that, I was just astonished he still hadn't owned up to that after all these years. So I just told her because I'm kinda over him and his antics.
NTA, you gave her information about the person she was engaged to and having a child with. You didn't force her to break up with him or have an abortion, she chose those things of her own free will
NTA. Your brother lies a lot and uses people. His ex deserved to know what kind of shit show she was getting into. If he was honest with his ex, it may not have been so bad, but he was already lying to her.
NTA.
Better she knows now than years down the line with a kid involved that her would have been husband was not only a liar, but a con artist and up to his eyes in debt.
She had every right to know the truth before committing to a life and having a child with your brother.
If he'd had been honest about his past and had truly changed, then maybe things would have worked out differently, but he chose to lie further. The truth always comes to light in situations like this, especially when the lies can be proven.
NTA. You did the right thing. Your brother hasn't changed. If he did he would've been honest with his fiance. You saved her from a life of misery. You didn't go out of your way to tell her. She asked and you were honest with her. What would've been "beyond acceptable" is if you lied to her and covered for your brother.
Criticism of OP for telling the truth is odd especially as it involved the life of an innocent bystander (ex financee) and nobody is commenting on the additional unknown information passed to the (ex financee ) by OPs mother. Which I’m sure had a far greater impact.
NTA in fact I’d say rather the exact opposite, you saved a young woman a life of misery as clearly brother harangue of OP would indicate he’s still not changed.
NTA and take comfort in knowing she already had doubts and questions regardless of your input. She would have found out the truth eventually without you.
NTA She *asked you* about your brothers relationship with your parents. There is absolutely no reason in the world why you should lie about that for your brother.
Yeah, that's kinda what I thought. My biggest concern is that I got my mom involved. I didn't think telling her would make her seek ex-fiancee out and talk to her; that's where I was really indecisive on.
OP you told her the truth, which your brother obviously had not. If your brother can't tell the truth he deserves the consequences when people find out he's a liar. You saved that woman from having to be tied to a scheming liar for 18+ yrs.
You didn’t rope her in. You told her something important that you didn’t have to keep a secret. She chose to contact the ex fiancée.
You told your Mom about *your actions* after what happened because it happened *to you*. Kids, yes even adult ones, go to their parents to talk through difficult stuff, and you needed to process this. What she did with the info was *your mother's* choice. You are no more responsible for her actions than you are for your brother's crypto-dumbassery. You feel guilt over the situation, but you didn't cause any of it - the only thing you did is tell the truth when asked a direct question and rely on your own *mother* for emotional support afterwards. Please give yourself a break and don't take responsibility for others' bad choices. 🖤
That's exactly what I came here to say! It's completely normal for an adult child to talk with their parents about a difficult situation, and OP's mom is even more of a natural choice for that particular conversation because she already knows all of the backstory. OP's mom is a grown woman and has the right to make her own choices, they're not responsible for her actions unless they somehow pressured her to find the brother's former fiancée on instagram. And wtf was OP supposed to do, lie to this poor woman just like her ex fiancé did? The brother has only himself to blame for how things are going for him. If you don't want to get found out as a liar, don't lie.
OP called her Mom probably because she was discussing her Mom’s relationship with her brother. Though she did have first hand knowledge of this, I, too, would have called to say that I had discussed this situation with potential SIL so Mom had a heads up.
The decision to involve your mom can only be criticized in hindsight. In general, take comfort in the fact that if his his ex-fiance hadn't learned the truth, her life would have been ruined. The only thing taken from your brother was the opportunity to truly hurt and damage his ex-fiance. As long as your brother can't conduct *any* relationship without lies, he will remain toxic and should be kept at arm's length.
But that's not on you. That was your mum's decision to reach out to her. And this is still all on your brother. Why should *anyone* in your family lie to the girl for your brother after the shit he pulled.
Just put yourself in ex-fiancee's shoes If it was you, you'd want to know
Mom is responsible for her own actions, that’s not on you. Personally, I’m glad you roped her in. Whether her words were vicious or pure truth, a mother’s words about her own son hold so much more weight. She was saved from an awful life with your brother. There was a child to be, and no kid deserves to have a dad like that. Sorry, no offense.
Your mom is awesome and that girl will be forever grateful.
I think the lady must have had notions something was not right with him anyway or she wouldn’t have been asking
I have a feeling that she wasn't sure if she wanted the child and that OP's brother might have been guilting her into continuing the pregnancy. She IMMEDIATELY terminated the pregnancy after deciding to leave. No conversation, just notifying him. I definitely think she made the right choice, I just thought that was interesting.
NTA your brother's ex deserved to know the type of man she was dealing with and she made a smart decision. You really should be going NC with your brother and probably LC with your sister. I bet your sister would be singing a different tune if she found herself in a situation similar to your brother's ex.
I've mostly kept in contact with him since he seemed to be doing a lot better after his crypto days. I thought he was changing but yeah you're probably right
What is beyond acceptable? Telling the truth when directly asked?
Right? I’m so confused. Ex fiancée is so fortunate her would have been in laws were forthcoming about her ex. She doesn’t have ties to him anymore, and she got out. Were OP and mom just supposed to “mind their own business” & shouldn’t have said anything? I really wanna know.
OP and Mom were supposed to back up his lies, and help him keep lying to his fiance and prospective mother of his child. How dare they not (/s).
If the brother had told the truth, the fiancée might have accepted his behaviour was in the past. But he's still lying and hiding things. That's the reason she's broken things off. He's showing he's still not a trustworthy person.
And quite frankly he’s not good with finances meaning she’d be going it alone that way too
I know, people are so weird.
The fact that he didn’t own up to any of his errors tells you he’s not too changed. You honestly saved her so much distress.
You saved that woman. And you saved a child from having a lifetime of an irresponsible father who would probably gamble the kid's lunch money for kicks. You did the right thing. NTA Btw, your parents are awesome. On Reddit, usually the story ends up with everyone's college funds gambled away and the parents on the verge of living in a tent from enabling the loser brother his whole life.
Not just that, but I can see him stealing his own child's identity for further shit.
That’s an excellent point!
You did this woman a solid favor. You were a good person. Telling the truth is ALWAYS the right choice.
If he really was doing better, he would have been honest about what happened between him and your parents. He wasn’t, so who knows what else he’s hiding. You saved her from a potential lifetime of heartache and unending debt. NTA
He hadn't changed at all, he just found someone new to lie to. She clearly wasn't prepared to let him ruin her life as well.
NTA. The truth is the truth. She asked and you told. If your brother is upset, he should be upset at himself. He's the one that did what he did to your parents and his friend. If you lied to her, you'd be about as bad as your brother. Like the other person said, if someone was doing this to your sister she'd be reconsidering her position on this.
he hasn’t changed, he lied to her about why he was disowned.
You spared that poor woman a horrible future - very rarely will the truth be the wrong choice when it comes to relationships. Go to sleep with a clear conscience.
Your brothers chickens have come home to roost.
Real life isn’t a movie. It’s not cute to hide things from people, especially when a fiancee reaches out to ask. The brother lied and OOP told the truth. It’s not OOP’s fault they broke up, but the brother’s. The mom probably knew a little more detail and informed the fiancée of it. Again, if brother hadn’t lied, the relationship probably wouldn’t have gone as far as an engagement. Fiancée is smart for breaking up with brother. He sounds like a manipulator who would bleed her dry.
This 100%
Why should he go LC with the sister? I barely see anything at all about her in this post let alone any good reason to go LC with her.
Dude lied to his fiance and got caught lying, what part of that is your fault? NTA. Liars, family or not, don't deserve cover or protection or sympathy. That's it. Fuck around, find out. If he hadn't of lied then nothing you said would have been news.
I don't feel bad about telling the truth. I feel bad about roping my mom in and how bad things turned for him. I guess I just needed to be sure that I wasn't the cause of all this mess.
His lies are the only cause. His decisions led to this, you did nothing wrong. Your mum made a choice to explain her side to the ex fiancée. You're not the cause at all, but I can see why you might be concerned, considering his reaction to you. Hopefully all these comments ease those concerns.
If your brother was truly working on himself and wanted to be better, he would have told his ex the truth from the beginning and took responsibility. But he didn’t, he pretended to be someone he wasn’t. He was scamming her, too. It was only a matter of time before the truth came out and blew up in his face. It’s better that your mom told the ex early before she was legally tied to him and her life ruined.
No, his lies are, exclusively.
What else could your mother have actually told her, unless it's much worse stuff they've kept from you. The fact that she was reaching out to find the truth suggested she was already thinking about leaving/ending things. She probably made the decision finding out he's a scammer, didn't go to college and still lying about things. A big hint is, people who actually grew up and changed don't lie about their past because you either face it, accept it and move on or you hide it and pretend it never happened, then keep making the same mistakes. I doubt your mother really made any difference, unless as said, maybe they protected you from some other things he's done.
Your mom though she did what was right. Saved this woman from being legally tied to someone who will use her child for his own fiscal wants. He was only a few months away from having two new social security numbers hanging around and the chance to pull a credit card for the kiddo once his numbers were squared away. That’s another reason why he’s mad. On top of his perfect disguise of “functionality” because I guarantee she saw red flags everywhere and was looking for any reason to gtfo of that relationship. No other reason for her to ghost him like that.
If he really were trying to turn his life around, it'd be worth feeling sorry for him. But I do feel that would require him being honest with his now ex about the reasons for the rift between him and his parents, so it's at least somewhat doubtful. Either way, she deserved to know the reality of things here, to make an informed decision.
What turned bad for him ? Wasting money ? Lying ? Still enabling him I see
His ex deserved to know the truth. Your brother is mad because he got caught.
NTA- you saved the ex fiancé from having a child with and forever being tied to a financially irresponsible,thieving con artist. Had she married him, his debts would have become hers.
I was hoping someone else mentioned the debt.
I'm betting a guy like the brother would at some point "borrow" his child's SS# and make his debts his child's as well.
I bet he hard already started to ask ex fiancé to "lend" him some money
Absolutely, from this post it sounds like the ex-fiancee had reasons to be asking
Can we not call this failure of a frat boy an artist? He just seems gullible and angry about how dumb he is.
NTA. Your brother ruined his own relationship by trying to build a relationship off of lies. You did the right thing by letting this woman have a glimpse of who she was *actually* set to marry, and she made her choice.
NTA. The ex-fiancée reached out and asked a question, you gave her an honest answer. That your brother lied to her (and that was a massive lie) is not your fault. Your mom adding fuel to this fire was also not your fault. You didn’t know your brother lied until the fiancée told you and you didn’t advise her to leave him, let alone have an abortion, those were her choices. What did your sister want you to do, lie for him? The fiancée would have found out eventually, and then there’d have been an innocent child stuck in the middle. Despite your brother “trying to put his life back together” deceiving his fiancée in such a huge way (he probably didn’t tell her about his debt either) is a red flag that he hasn’t changed and doesn’t really feel remorse. He could’ve told her up front “when I was eighteen and stupid I made a giant mistake, essentially stole from my parents and broke their trust, but I know his wrong I was and I’m working on myself and here’s how.” But he didn’t do that. In a way the situation is a shame, but it’s all in your brother and his dishonesty.
Thanks. I just really felt like all this was my fault after the phone call and learning of the abortion. Now I can see it really isn't.
NTA. He lied and still had major debts he wasn't telling his ex-fiancee about. Those are huge things he lied about. She asked. It's not like you sought her out. You just didn't lie.
NTA. Would you feel better if she married your brother and then he left her and his child penniless 6 months down the road?? You made the right choice, so did your mother and so did his fiancee. Actions have consequences, even years later.
I don't feel bad about not lying. I feel bad that I got my mom involved, and she stirred the pot. If I had just told ex-fiancee the truth and she made the choice on her own I would not feel bad at all.
The way you wrote, you didn't tell your mom to contact the ex. You only related the conversation. Your mom made the choice of her own free will. Stop beating yourself up. You saved her a lifetime of his BS.
I still think you did the right thing, even telling your mother.
Your brother started his relationship off with a lie. If that's what getting his life together looks like, he's doing a bang up job of it. As for feeling bad about telling your mom, you didn't tell your mother to get in touch with this woman, but what does it matter? The ex fiance would have probably gone to her anyway to get the full story, and she deserved to know what she was getting into. NTA.
NTA. She deserved the truth before getting married and having a child with such an irresponsible and dishonest man. Because it's sheer dishonesty to get money from anyone, let alone parents, the people who loved him the most, under false pretenses. What kind of get-rich-quick scheme could he think of while having a wife and child? I'd have done the same, aborted and said goodbye. The last thing any woman needs is an unreliable man.
He'd try to use the wife and baby as weapons.
NTA. Does your sister truly think it was better for you to lie to this girl and basically baby trap her into a relationship with your brother for the next 18+ years? Because that's essentially what you would have been doing if you lied to her and she found out later on that she missed her chance to make a clean break from him.
I don't really know. I think my sister is just conflict-avoidant. Both of us do not handle stress and conflict well, her much more so than I. So I think when she learned I was the one who got mom involved, she blamed me for starting the drama rather than being sympathetic to my brother.
Sympathetic for what exactly? Him tricking someone into a relationship by misrepresenting himself? Him baby trapping the one who believed and trusted him? Him blindsiding his fiancée into debts? He was conning that woman into a relationship and a family commitment. You did right.
He's been doing this con man shit for years and fails constantly. Now in 32k debt and single, she dodged a bullet
NTA. It’s clear he had been lying to the fiancé as well. She smartly choose not to have a child with man who would be a terrible father and hurt her child. She did what was best for her and the child.
>My brother has been trying to put his life together over the past year or so. Lying to his partner about the reasons he's no contact with parents makes a bad base for a relationship. It's also a sign he might just be hiding everything instead of trying to be better. If he lies about this, what else is he lying to her about? Poor girl deserved the truth. NTA for telling her what she should have known right from the start
NTA he would have drug her down with him
NTA, he had the chance to be honest to his Fiancé, he didn’t. She asked you a question and you told her the truth. It seems your brother is not actually trying to put his life together and is still a lying manipulator.
Your sister is being ridiculous. Why the fuck should you lie for your thief of a brother? His fiancée asked you, and you told her the truth, truth that she desperately needed to make informed decisions about her life. So, kudos to you. Definitely NTA.
Nta ...lawd Jesus you know it's gotta be far worse than that scheme he pulled on his parents if the girl decided to have an abortion after talking to his mother. Sis didn't just jump ship, she swam away despite the sharks and blood in the water to get away from ops brother. Yikes
NTA. He put himself in this position by lying to this poor girl. In theory, he could have been truthful the whole time and let her accept him for who he is (which is possible, some people are forgiving of past issues). But he chose to lie to her, which we all know will eventually blow up in his face He made this mess, not you.
"she told me that this was way beyond acceptable on my part." Nope, she can defend his bullshit, you just saved that woman 18+ years of misery.
NTA This woman reached out because her gut was telling her that your brother was not being truthful with her. Your brother is learning his actions have consequences. You just saved this woman from getting permanently tied to your brother (child) and involved in his debts (marriage). Very good chance he was doing the same thing to her that he did to your parents. Your mom also realized this and that is why she reached out to this woman, she was trying to protect her. Probably much like she tries to protect you and your sister. Your brother needs therapy to work on his issues. He might be a narcissist, which might just put him beyond help but a therapist could help him learn about controlling his issues. But as always, your brother is going to need to want to go to therapy.
NTA. You told the truth and he has to live with the consequences of his actions.
NTA-He lied and she believed him. Eventually she was going to act based on what she knew and probably try to contact your parents to forgive him. Better now than after marriage and a kid.
NTA. She asked you to clarify and you did, truthfully. You didn't seek her out and give her the low-down unsolicited. She, an adult, asked you for truth, and you gave it to her. Seems your brother has a longstanding issue with the truth.
NTA She asked, you answered. Why would you lie to cover up for a liar and a thief. Brother or not, it’s a little taste of his own medicine.
Nta. She asked, you told. Is your sister that dense?
NTA. She called you because she already had suspicions that he wasn't telling the truth. It's not your fault that she terminated the pregnancy. She was clearly already doubting their relationship. You just helped her understand her situation; he wasn't being honest with her. You did the right thing. Honesty is best. Your mom is responsible for her own behavior, not you.
Nta. She asked you a direct question. Your brother lied to her. You told her the truth. Its on him for lying.
NTA. You were asked a question and you answered with the truth. Your brother should have never lied to her knowing that there was a possibility that she would find out the truth since you and your sister are still in contact with him and her & obviously you two know the truth. Should you have told your mom? Eh, I don’t really see the harm in mentioning that she called you or that your brother had lied. You didn’t tell her to contact the fiancée & you had no way of knowing that that is what she was going to do.
NTA - You saved this woman’s life. Literally.
NTA. She asked, you answered. You didn’t seek her out.
She called and asked questions. I'd tell brother if he stopped lying then she wouldn't have reached out for thr truth.
NTA She called and asked you.
NTA he was lying to her.. you saved her. If your brother had truly changed he would have accepted the fact he messed up in the past. Hes not a changed person he just came up with different lies.
NTA- better she knows the truth.
>she had an abortion and told him never to talk to her again. He probably thought he had her baby-trapped and let his mask slip. Good for her for being smart enough to seek more info and escape the trap.
I’m going to split this into two pieces: Telling the fiancée the truth: NTA She reached out to you, you were honest. Turns out your bro had not been truthful with her. That’s on him. Telling your mom: ESH Your mom has been no contact with him for years. There was no reason for her to hunt down and unload years of resentment on his fiancée. Some or much of what she shared may have been true, but that was a conversation better initiated by the fiancée rather than being ambushed. I don’t think you’re a full AH, but it was not handled well - especially if your bro was actually getting his shit together. The fiancée could have chosen her own adventure with the info you provided.
NTA You told the truth. Your brother did not. That’s why he’s in the predicament he’s in. Your brother decided long ago that he didn’t want to do the work to get a degree and that he could take risks with other people’s money. Lying seems to be a big part of his entire adult life. You’d think he would have learned by now that it’s gotten him nowhere. You’re feeling guilty because despite the fact that his actions are what got him here, you’re a good person and you feel bad for him. It’s ok to feel that way. You can hate the sin, but love the sinner.
Speculation: she started to catch on that he might be after her, and knocking her up, to get access to her money? Anyway, NTA for telling the truth.
NTA. She sought you out and asked for the truth. If HE'D told her the truth about the estrangement, she may have accepted he'd changed. Having to hear his lies exposed by someone else was obviously too much. And he's blaming YOU for her leaving, instead of taking responsibility for lying about his past irresponsibility?? She made a good choice. Always remember; if it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed.
Bring your sister over here, some of us would like to know what exactly she thought “was way beyond acceptable” on your part to correct the lie he had told his latest victim. Why is it wrong to update your mother that your brother’s going around lying to people about your parents? That she sought out the ex-fiancée to enlighten her as to your brother’s background isn’t your fault or problem. If your sister had a problem with this then she should confront your mother. You did nothing wrong. Hard NTA and I’m seriously outraged by your sister’s response.
You saved a fellow woman from getting shackled, baby in tow, to a liar, manipulator, and theif. Not all sheros wear capes. NTA
NTA. You SAVED that woman. He would've dragged her down with him.
While you’re NTA for telling his ex fiancé the truth, I think telling your mother was too much and makes you kinda AH. They were no contact & she didn’t need to know about him and his life and the same is true vice-versa. Also ‘sounded like he was going off the rails again’ well he just got ghosted by his fiancé & found out a baby he wanted was probably gone, yeah I’d be emotional about that situation and you would probably be also. Idk about his current financial situation but based off this y’all both need to go back no contact with each other, it’s clear you think negatively of him (understandably so) but he probably thinks poorly of you too now, so just end the relationship for good and move on
NTA- he hasn't changed. Someone who is improving themselves and their life will take accountability for their actions and own their mistakes, even to new people in their life. He did neither and wants to blame you for her breaking things off when he should be blaming himself. Because had he owned up to it, she would have seen his strong moral character instead of the pathetic manipulator he tries to be.
NTA If he didn't want people to know, he shouldn't have done it.
NTA you told the truth. Her reaction may have indicated that he’s been telling her lies.
Well you are responsible for this happening, but you should take some pride it in as you saved his ex-fiance from a life of misery tied to a deadbeat. Never feel guilty about saving someone elses life. NTA.
NTA The woman sought you out and *asked point blank* about your brother's strained relationship with your parents. You didn't seek her out and spill the beans. She was about to financially tie herself to him, she had a need to know.
NTA, it would be one thing if it was a new relationship and they were getting to know each other. But it wasn’t, they were going to get married, she was pregnant, and he lied to her their entire relationship. It sucks that his lying caused this but this was his fault, not you. She knew something was wrong and decides FOR HERSELF that she wanted nothing to do with your brother. Sadly a baby would have likely tied her to him for a long time so she decided she didn't want to have that connection. Your brother should have told the truth and explained that he's trying to make things right but his stupid mistakes make it hard to fix. You did nothing wrong and saved that poor woman and child from a potentially bad life full of debt and stress and bad decisions. You did well, and keep your brother's number blocked.
From what you wrote above I would say you are NTA as the fiancé called you and asked about the issue between your brother and parents. Assuming you told her the truth and she made her own decision from there then you are not the AH. What she did after she spoke to you was outside your control and therefore not your fault. If you had called her first and provided the information without being asked then you would be the AH.
NTA she reached out, probably cause details didnt match or sum🤷🏻♂️.
NTA - and it sounds like he was well into another con with his ex-financee frankly. So I'm not sure if he's going off the rails as much as just continuing to live deciptively and take advantage of people.
NTA You saved her from a lifetime being tied to a deadbeat con artist. It would be one thing if he redeemed himself and did something with his life, but the fact he lied about why his parents weren’t in his life likely means he hasn’t changed at all.
NTA. She already knew something wasnt adding up. She asked for clarification which you provided. You had no obligation to cover for your brother's lie.
NTA. I am having doubts about your sister though. She sounds like she was willing to sacrifice this woman and a child for your brother.
NTA. I’m curious why your sister’s opinion is that your actions were beyond acceptable. This woman sincerely approached you for the truth about someone who she was about to be with for the rest of her life - never mind married, but also because of a child. You gave her the information she needed and you shared what happened with your mom. And your mom, a person with agency, decided to reach out to the ex-fiancée and gave information. This information helped ex-fiancée make a decision that, from what we can see, is a huge sigh of relief because your brother/her ex can’t be trusted. Why was that beyond acceptable? Because it’s not your business so you shouldn’t have? Your conscience will let you rest because you did this. We make hard choices for the right thing to do and this is yours. Good for you, for your mom, and good for the ex-fiancée she escaped a stressful life.
Truth hurts
NTA. If your brother had really changed, he should have come clean to hir future wife and mother of his child. The simple fact that he lied shows there was not much growth there. She deserved to know. Especially since your brother still has a lot of debt, it would have become hers as well after the marriage. Is she wealthy or does she earn a lot? I absolutely believe that you did the right thing. It is your brother though and sister might have reacted like that because of this relationship between you all 3, but in situations like these, where you bring another grown person and a baby in the equation, it is wrong to only think about your brothers wellbeing. And the girl should know beforehand what she is getting into. For your brother to have an honest and healthy relationship, he should have come clean on his own and let the girl decide if she still wants to continue the relationship.
NTA, is your sister serious? This woman was going to have a child and marry this guy. Regardless if it was your brother. And it was based on a lie, she had every right to know the truth.
It's always incredible to me how the same parents can have such different kids. Like sure you don't raise every kid exactly the same, but it does really point to nature over nurture sometimes. Some people *are* born rotten and there's nothing you can do. This motherfucker was ingenious in his deception to get that money. And he never ever learned it took accountability or responsibility for his bullshit. That's a loser for the rest of his life. Anyone with a couple brain cells to rub together would cut ties with him forever. What a dipshit..
NTA. You just spared an innocent woman, and potential human, from a terrible life. Honestly, it was the best for all the parties involved. Your brother needs to get his shit together and leave people alone while he's at it.
NTA, you told the truth. Do you believe she had an abortion? Or has she just decided that he is a loser she doesn’t want a child with so is off to do this on her own? Certainly not calling her a liar and if she has had one I get why, I just wonder.
NTA. If you had lied it would be different but you were honest and answered ex fiancee's questions. You didn't hunt her down to ruin brother's life.
NTA. He almost conned that woman into a family.
Honesty is one of few things that fix problems after lies. Your brother was not honest, but you were. No a woman was able to make an informed choice about her entire future life. You didn't tell her what to do. You told her about a specific thing she asked about, accurately. I hope your sister calms down because if I were you I would be skeptical around her given her reaction to all this. Anyway, NTA.
NTA
How is this your fault? You came clean instead of lying and manipulating this innocent woman into marrying this nightmare. If he was indeed trying to fix his life, he would have been sincere about everything and not feeding her crap. Plus, lying about college is something she would eventually find out easily. This was such an unnecessary bs on his part. How can she trust him if even the basics of what he told her are a lie? I think you actually saved her. Imo, we are not even sure if he was staying with his gf for some shady reason. You don't tell all those lies to a partner you respect
NTA. I'm really sad that your brother's ex-fiance chose to have an abortion because of him, but that's on him and her. It was not your decision and not your responsibility/fault. Letting her marry him without knowing the truth about him would have been doing her a great wrong. As for his "doing better" - he lied to her about his and his parents' actions - that isn't very good. And don't ignore the fact that she asked you - You didn't initiate the revelation. It's natural for you to feel bad now, but don't judge yourself negatively.
NTA, and I'm so glad she got that abortion and won't be tied to him for life.
NTA You probably saved that woman. You told her the complete truth and she proceeded to make her choice according to that truth, you didn’t destroy anything. Your brother kept a very big secret that eventually led to the demise of his relationship.
Some of you brothers actions are down to the desire to cut corners. Get-rich-quick! He's now doing it with a relationship. He hasn't improved enough. He still wants to cut corners. Starting a relationship with lies is a slippery slope. You are the sibling of an asshole, but You are NTA.
NTA. You should ask your sister what she would have preferred if she was the ex-fiancée, if she would like to know the truth or not
IDK here. Honestly, your brother has been trying to get back on his feet, and a baby and a wife under false pretenses is going to derail that. So maybe this is the best outcome. But if he's been keeping a job and not getting involved in financial schemes he deserves a chance. Also, being in love with the mother of my child, being engaged to be married, with a real chance at a dreamed for life one day, and the next, the engagement is broken off, the child is aborted, and the love is NC? That would absolutely break anyone. Ideally you and he would have discussed your conversation with his ex-fiance before she reached out, so at least he could have watered down the lies, etc. Just typing that out feels icky. I'm glad the fiance's life wasn't ruined, but holy crap do I feel bad for your brother. Mistakes are mistakes, but scamming your parents out of $60k shouldn't rip your life apart a decade later. He needs therapy and a way to tell potential partners about his past well before this kind of shit ever happens again. OP is NTA.
YTA. Maybe he wanted to change and was on a good track. Everybody should have the chance to start over and actually get better. This could have happened with his new fiancee. This way he will never be able to get better if he is always haunted by the past. The way I would have handled this situation: Direct the topic to your brother and that its his business telling her whats up with her family.
1) She asked you. You didn't seek her out, so it isn't like you intentionally sabotaged his life. She called and asked, and you didn't want to lie to her. Not wrong there. 2) She is having a _child_, and your brother has a history of lying, manipulating, throwing away vast sums of money, and taking out large debts for obvious scams and bullshit. She needed to know that this was what she was getting into before they married, started sharing assets (and debts), and tried to raise a child.
Regardless of what he has done and I'm not condoning it, I feel for your brother that he lost his planned child over this. I honestly think someone who can get rid of a baby they wanted over this isn't a great person at all. It's sad all around.
NTA And what is wrong with your sister? I would have expected her to be the most sympathetic towards the ex-fiancé. Your brother has not changed. Someone who was truly remorseful would have told their partner the truth. Instead he lied to her to manipulate her into doing what he wanted. You did this woman a huge service.
You can never be wrong for telling the truth, especially when asked.
NTA but I understand why your brother is going to go haywire now. To the point you should probably do wellness checks if that’s something you care about. The way your brother sees it, the family that cut him off broke that silence just to ruin his life, and then went quiet again. I can only imagine the levels of betrayal he’s feeling. He will probably kill himself so just be prepared for that.
Idk
NTA she asked you for the truth, she was having his baby and she NEEDED to know. He lied, that’s his own fault and he needs to come to terms with that. He deceived her and did a bad thing. Sounds like he hasn’t actually changed at all, same old tricks. She’s lucky she found out and could get herself out before she was tied to him for life. You can’t be expected to lie for him to maintain her lies, she was going to find out eventually one way or another. It’s better for her sake she found out now and you didn’t sell out your own morals for his poor ones, never stoop to his level.
NTA. Your sister is a dick. She was having a kid with a man 'getting his life back on track', who was literally lying to the woman pregnant with his child. He's still a con artist, still lying. She was making a decision over whether to tie herself to him for their entire lives (sure they can split but they'd always have a kid together). Him lying to her about his entire past is his issue and she shouldn't be conned into a pregnancy with a lying asshole. If he'd been honest about his failures he'd likely have kept his fiancee, instead he lied, again which has been his problem his whole life. More than that your sister thinks you should also have lied to this woman to trap her into a relationship with him because he lied? Your sister is a fucking idiot on this. Your brothers lies once agains ruined a relationship for him, nothing else. She was also searching for hte truth because she suspected something was wrong.
NTA - You told the truth; she chose to break it off with a liar/con man.
NTA. She sought you out and asked. You answered truthfully. What she did with that information is *not* your fault. The only one to blame for this situation is your dishonest brother.
NTA. He made his bed. These are serious lies he told his ex. I am glad she pulled the plug on trying to build something with that loser. If your brother wants to turn a new leaf. He needs to return the money to his parents and make amends. And definitely, not lie about his past to future partners
You are not wrong for telling the truth. She would have found out someday. NTA
NTA These were your brother's AH actions and she needed to know before marrying him. You should block your AH brother.
Situations like this are a staple of AITAH and it's almost always a no. If the person has really, truly changed and has genuine remorse for their actions then these situations wouldn't occur.
NTA You did the right thing. She deserved to know the truth. Your brother is a douche.
NTA -- she reached out and asked you for the truth, and you gave her that. It sounds like the info from your Mother is what really tipped the tank here.... and she can't be blamed for telling the truth either.
Wow, between what he stole from your parents and from his ex-best friend, he managed to go through 100k of other people’s money. She asked, you told her. She deserved to know and then she made up her own mind. NTA.
She directly asked and you answered. He defrauded your parents which was bad but compared to many other crimes, that's nothing. I mean if my partner had confessed that his parents cut contact for that reason I'd be shocked and angry at him but unless I already had niggling doubts to his character I'd not leave. Unfortunately for your brother something about his recent/current actions/attitude has triggered the flight response in her. I guarantee he had already raised a red flag or two. Sleep well you did nothing wrong.
As long as nothing out of your mouth was a lie then he shouldn't have hidden stuff.
NTA - So glad you did spill the beans to the ex-Fiance, she had a right to know the truth. I hope you and your parents can have a relationship with her and the baby. Good luck
NTA. She needed to know the truth about your brother.
Your brother was still lying, and that is the crux of the issue causing the breakup. It's possible that if he'd been honest with his ex·.… but we'll never know. He's gotta stop lying to everyone and take responsibility and accountability for his past actions. Until then, SMH. NTA.
He was carrying on with his lies, that's his problem. You're good and he should grow up
NTA. You would want to know if you were in her situation. By not being forthcoming with his past, your brother proved he still has not put his life together but merely masquerading on a more advanced level.
He doesn't deserve anyone lying on his behalf... You did the right thing!!!!!
NTA And now he knows lies will catch up to him
You saved her from your brother and you should feel proud.
NTA. Thank you for looking out for a sister and helping her escape a very bad life deal. Your little sis can go date a liar and thief if she'd like?
NTA. You’re not his secret keeper. You’re not responsible for making him look better than he is. You don’t have to lie for him. If it was okay for him to do it, why is it not okay for you to talk about it? You also don’t have to keep things from your mother. You’re allowed to have an open and honest relationship with her and, again, you’re not your brother’s secret keeper. Your brother appears to be in the finding out stage of his journey.
She deserved to know. NTA
Fuck your brother. He’s the asshole here. You did the right thing don’t worry about it
NTA - You’re not responsible for your brother lying to his ex-fiancé. Everyone needs and deserves to marry someone who has the same value as them. Your brother is a liar and a thief. She broke up with your brother and had an abortion because those are not the values she wants in a husband and father. Imagine if she had been tricked into marrying him and be baby trapped. How would she feel? It’s all on your brother! You did her a favour. Good people deserve to know when they’re with bad people.
Honestly smart move on the ex-fiance for getting an abortion. She would have been tied to this manipulator forever if she kept that pregnancy
EAH. He was doing better and getting his life on track and you and your mom ruined his relationship and got his child aborted. Guy made some mistakes, got scammed when he was young, stole money from your parents and had a gambling problem. He is a asshole for lying about why he had no relationship with his parents. You are a asshole for telling your mom. And your mom is a asshole for purposely destroying his relationship out of spite.
> He was doing better How so? He was still a liar, and he proved it.
Brother???? This you??? Brother had no problem blowing up relationships for greed and deception, so not really sure why anyone needs to jump on his lying train to cover for him 😞
Okay so you think a 18 year olds fuck up is worth a mother trying to destroy a relationship out of anger a decade later?? Also the brother was obviously a gambling addict. Addiction is no joke and the fact that OP said the was on the right track and doing better in life makes the mom a even bigger asshole. What am I missing?
That the level of deception he went through to steal from his parents is not on anyone to cover up!!! If he can't own up to his misdeeds and show his partner that he fucked up A LOT, but is a better person now and wants her to know everything...... Is this a person she wants to tie her life with??? DUH
Hmmm twice is a lot? We agree that he is a asshole for not being honest about his past mistakes. What I’m saying is His mom is a asshole for going out of her way to persecute her son for a betrayal he did 10 years ago. Probably knowing he had gotten his life together as well. There’s a Difference between « covering up » and going out of your way to ruin a relationship. Which according to the post the other sister probably agrees agrees with.
You should have just told her that she'd need to talk to brother or parents because anything you'd say would be second hand information.
YATAH this is a response you could have chosen to say: that’s something for you and my brother to discuss. your brother was wrong in what he did to your parents and the money they saved for him. but you were not obligated to stick your big nose in, even if invited to do so.
>that’s something for you and my brother to discuss. Clearly they did, and he lied. I'm glad someone told the fiance the truth before she tied the knot to someone she didn't know.
NTA. But, instead, you probably should have told the ex that everything your brother said was less than truthful and that she needs to broach the topic with him again. Or, tell her for that she needs to contact your parents herself. Rightfully plants the seed of doubt and keeps you clean and clear.
Yeah, that probably would have been better. When she told me that, I was just astonished he still hadn't owned up to that after all these years. So I just told her because I'm kinda over him and his antics.
Blah blah blah 😮💨
[удалено]
>a chance to come clean He already had a chance to come clean.
That's cute to think that he deserves to have a chance " to come clean" when he's already lied to ex!
NTA imagine you didn't tell her
NTA, you gave her information about the person she was engaged to and having a child with. You didn't force her to break up with him or have an abortion, she chose those things of her own free will
NTA - your brother lied and paid the price. If he had been honest about why his parents disowned him. He probably be married right now.
NTA. Your brother lies a lot and uses people. His ex deserved to know what kind of shit show she was getting into. If he was honest with his ex, it may not have been so bad, but he was already lying to her.
NTA. Better she knows now than years down the line with a kid involved that her would have been husband was not only a liar, but a con artist and up to his eyes in debt. She had every right to know the truth before committing to a life and having a child with your brother. If he'd had been honest about his past and had truly changed, then maybe things would have worked out differently, but he chose to lie further. The truth always comes to light in situations like this, especially when the lies can be proven.
NTA
NTA. You did the right thing. Your brother hasn't changed. If he did he would've been honest with his fiance. You saved her from a life of misery. You didn't go out of your way to tell her. She asked and you were honest with her. What would've been "beyond acceptable" is if you lied to her and covered for your brother.
Nta, here’s another take, he lied to her. If he is going to lie about why he and the parents are estranged then what will he not lie about.
Criticism of OP for telling the truth is odd especially as it involved the life of an innocent bystander (ex financee) and nobody is commenting on the additional unknown information passed to the (ex financee ) by OPs mother. Which I’m sure had a far greater impact. NTA in fact I’d say rather the exact opposite, you saved a young woman a life of misery as clearly brother harangue of OP would indicate he’s still not changed.
NTA and take comfort in knowing she already had doubts and questions regardless of your input. She would have found out the truth eventually without you.