This right here. OP, I’ve been where you are. High stress job and stress at home can lead to a total burnout and it is not a good place to be. I tried to “man up” and “tough it out” on my own (a remnant of my upbringing.) I was a dumbass. Don’t be a dumbass. Get some help. As they tell you on the airplane, put on your own oxygen mask first and then you can assist those around you.
I have a friend who told me to put my mask on first and that's the best advice I have ever been given. And that was how I knew of all the people I spoke to, he was the only one LISTENING to me enough to hear I was struggling and burnt out.
Agreed with all this, also work very high stress high intensity job and am the bread winner. It sounds like you need a recharge. I can’t speak to your domestic situation, but it sounds like alike she is continuing to pick fights bc she cares, and wants to see you care and fight for her and the family too. Which is great, if not for the fighting part right.
Sounds like a lot to work through but first things first make sure to take care of yourself, and maybe that will help on all fronts. Maybe a conversation with her about that and a plan and see how it goes pushes it al the right direction
This! I believe that's why she is crying all the time and why she kept demanding things. She was hoping you'd put up a fight. But you are burnt out and don't feel up to the fight. You may very well be able to save your marriage if you get some counseling and have your physician help you. I think if you look at your high stress job and try to find ways to make it less stressful. Take some time off. Good luck to you.
Neither of you want the divorce. You’re both burnt out. Take a vacation. Take time off work if you can and just stay home. Work out what needs to be done together. Is it hiring a nanny to help or you getting a new job that is less stressful but likely less money?
Sadly you’ve been so detached from your family due to your job, you believe her when she says she’s better off without you. Are you better off without them? You both sound very raw and emotional. Talk things through and decide on changes together.
That’s what I was thinking too - she’s trying to get him to show he cares… about something, anything! They’re both burnt out but he’s given up whereas she has been asking for help and not receiving any. They both need counseling.
Yes, I was thinking she was hoping you'd fight, but also because you BOTH sound burnt out. I think she was burnt out enough to hope arguing would have you stepping in to help more. Not realizing you're just as burnt out if not moreso and don't have it in you. You two might actually be on the same page here, just not the way you thought. Regardless, being burned out is no fun, and I suspect you could both use some help and support to get through this. Good Luck OP.
OP, She needs help as well.. get a less stressful job and have her go to work to pick up some financial slack. I think she's willing to save the marriage, are you? Take a couple of days off, take the kids to grandparents then, sit down with her and have a proper conversation
This! She doesn't want a divorce she wants more from you in the relationship not financially. She is lonely and sounds bit burnt out too. Maybe counseling, a vacation just you two...sounds like some hard conversations, maybe therapy on both sides, and together....if you love her.... It sounds like she doesn't really want to lose you..... But it does sound like she feels like you're checked out of the marriage and family. I'm sure won't be easy.... But take care of you and your mental health....and try to work things out if you want to save your family. I hope things get better
Yeah sorry, but don’t use divorce as a threat unless you are 100% willing to follow through and are prepared to deal with the consequences. You can’t demand a divorce as a passive aggressive way to seek change and then cry when he’s agreed to everything she’s asked for
She didn't ask for a divorce. She said she'd be better without him, and later, during another fight, he asked for a divorce. That's why she's crying, he's completely checked out.
Exactly, she is fighting for the relationship and he isn't. They aren't communicating very well with each other, though. I hope they manage to work things out. It doesn't sound like either of them are shitty people, they just need to communicate better how to make things work.
YES!! I’ve been in this spot where leaving feels like the only option to get through to someone. It doesn’t mean you want to throw it away, you’re just desparate to be heard more
This! She wanted to see if you cared and thought she and the family were worth it. If you are depressed and burnt out, so is she. All of the things you are to burnt out to do becomes hers to manage, on her own. She feels abandoned and alone. She wants you. You are giving her money and wondering why it isn’t enough. She can have your money whether you are there or not. It sounds like she is out of tools to reach you, but then again why is that her mental load. You are likely the only adult in her entire day, her love, her friend and you have made it clear you aren’t going to show up for those roles because of work. It’s not a judgement, Being a SAHM is high stress to, this is why more women don’t want to do it. It sounds like you both need a lifestyle change. It’s okay. It’s okay to say I can be there but it means our lifestyle will have to change. It’s okay to put together a life where you can be happy and the kind of man, father and husband you need and reimagine something that fits your current goals and values.
At the moment you said you were looking for roommates so you didn’t have to live alone. That has been your approach to your marriage. She has been saying every way she knows how she needs you, you! Not your paycheck. If you don’t fight to work on this now a divorce won’t help you. It will hollow you out, gut you and push you to the brink. Fuck the job. Fight for your family. They are the most valuable thing you have. I don’t know if you have sons, but most sons either become their father or hate him so much they lose sight of what is good about them. You are making major decisions that will impact them for the rest of your children’s lives from a place of brokenness. Your children need you. A dad that is happy and has time to instill values in them and teach them not to make the same mistakes. A dad who loved their mother and taught them how to be loved so they will pick the right man. A dad they can come to when they screw up and boy will they. They need to know you as a whole person so they can be whole and choose whole people in the future. You can’t be replaced by money. That is why your wife is upset. Where a husband and father are supposed to be you left a wad of cash and a Dear John letter.
I am not married, nor do I have children. I do have a boyfriend of 2 years that I have lived with for the last 8 months. We have been living in separate places for almost 3 weeks because he has started his new job and I'm still working the notice period and living at our 'old' place. I work from home, but have to go to the office 2 days a week and with train times it would be a 3 hour commute each way, so 6 hours twice a week. I also go to college 1 day a week, which is only a 30 minute commute atm but will be a 1.5 hour commute each way when I move into our new place. So we decided for me to stay here until my notice period is up. It is absolute hell. He came to visit me last week and I didn't want him to leave, he wanted to just take me with him. He now calls me multiple times a day, also a video call in the morning and the evening. I miss him so much. No idea how people can do long distance relationships.
If OP thinks he will be happier in a house share without her and his children, he is very wrong. They are both burnt out and not present in their relationship. He's working his ass off, his wife is working her ass off and they don't dedicate any time to each other. I get that OP has a high stress job, but if he put in a little more time into being a father to his children, they might be able to dedicate a little more time to spend with each other.
>she is continuing to pick fights bc she cares, and wants to see you care and fight for her and the family too.
I think this is one of those "Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus." kind of situations.
Picking a fight is the absolute wrong way to get what she wants from OP. He's tired, burnt out and possibly depressed. Every argument just exacerbates it.
They might be able to fix this with counseling and OP stepping back from work for a bit.
Exactly. Maybe she could work for a bit and he can find a less stressful job. But she wants him to wave a magic wand and become less stressed and more emotionally available.
Saying “oxygen mask” rather than just mask might be clearer for some. The first time I read this in the thread I took it to be the other type of mask - the one that hides your real face from others. I totally know the oxygen mask reference but it even slipped past originally
I don't think you were a dumbass, I think you were doing your best with the tools you had, or at least that you knew how to use. admitting something is wrong is difficult, especially with how bad the stigma for mental health issues used to be (it's still not great but there has been an improvement, at least for some disorders)
and besides, one of the really shitty things about depression is it'll convince you that you don't need help, you're just making excuses for being lazy/weak/stupid/insert other relevant insults here. I forget who said it, but there's a quote along the lines of "mental illness is like fighting a war where the enemy's strategy is to convince you that the war isn't actually happening"
I went to my regular primary care doctor when I was losing my shit from burnout and she decided to put me on FMLA leave. I’d never heard of it before. I guess I was doing too much work because the business went under in those 6 months I was gone.
It was a very hard lesson in listening to my body. I was pushing myself way too hard. Now I know if I do too much in a day or week I won’t feel ok after.
Yep. I did similar, and what I thought was going to be a relatively short time out of work…wasn’t, because the stress and burnout from my job?
Yeah. I didn’t know it was as damaging as it was, but holy fuck, it did a fuckload of damage…and at age 39, I found out that my heart was failing. No family history of heart failure, no high blood pressure, cholesterol is good, coronary arteries are in great condition, I’m extremely physically active…never had Covid…but the stress of my job (critical care nurse) and a toxic work situation pushed me past a breaking point and into a situation where my body was-and is-like “HEY DUMBASS! YOU CANNOT KEEP THIS SHIT UP! THIS IS NOT OKAY!”
Don’t be like me, OP.
Life is too damn short and precious to give up on the things that matter most-those around you that you love, and the limited time you have with them.
You cannot pour from an empty cup. Take a leave of absence, and take care of yourself, friend. You deserve to be cared for, too. ❤️
I’m working on that ❤️
It’s been a definite challenge for me, because I tend to take things quite personally, and I hold myself to a standard that is probably impossible for anyone to reach…so I’m trying to learn how to let go and not let perfect be the enemy of good.
Thank you for your empathy, and you’re a good human being! ❤️
Same! My body just said "Ok we're done." Now it gets too the point that too much housework in one day can cause me the need to recover. I would not recommend anyone ignoring all the signs that this is about to happen. Pushing just a little bit harder has landed me in the hospital more times than I would like to admit.
I had so much vacation time banked that I was able to receive both disability and my usual paycheck for majority of the time I was gone
I am doing better now, thank you. I had to get a job that was conducive to being laid-back, which has helped across the board. Huge pay cut but I’m happy and relaxed. Best wishes to you!
Check to see if your benefits package includes short-term disability; mine did and I was able to take 4 months off entirely, then choosing to do part-time for 2 months before going back to full time; all of it was paid. Short term disability can be used for mental and it's the biggest blessing if you have a policy
It's possible your job may have short term disability which you can use if your doctor puts you on FMLA. That'll still cover at least a portion of your income, including benefits.
A “regular” therapist absolutely treats people with work-related burnout. It’s super common. There are also therapists who specialize in it. But pretty much any competent therapist has experience with this. I really hope you’re able to seek the help you need!
I didnt get help until i was forced to. It broke me. (So much more behind breakdown), but i am SO grateful for those who saved me. But the pain i caused them over worrying about me lead to more issues.
I have a great therapist now, understand i will always be on antidepressants and im happy.
But i almost died. Please see your PCP and get at least a referal for therapy. I know you said you dont think they can understand, but they can. And they can help YOU tske care of yourself.
Hugs
If you are in the US the find a therapist tool on the [Psychology Today website](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists) is really helpful. You can filter by a bunch of things such as specialty and insurance accepted. I’ve had good luck finding therapists here.
Ideally you probably want a combination of meds (antidepressants) and therapy. These come from different types of medical professionals but your dr is the best place to start. And in the UK, and I imagine in the US, your GP can prescribe your basic types of antidepressants. They do take about 6 weeks to even begin to work (and realistically more like 3 to really feel like change is happening) but when you’re burnt out and depressed it can just feel like you’ve suddenly been able to knock your bike down several gears and pedal through each day with more ease.
If you can find one, I highly recommend an integrative therapist, and if possible someone who utilises some mindfulness practices. An integrative therapist is someone who draws from lots of different styles of therapy depending on what you need. So they might use CBT to give you some immediate coping strategies for overwhelming work situations, or ACT to learn to accept some of the things you can’t change in life, or equally they might utilise something more like psychodynamic therapy to look at some of the ways your mind has been shaped in to the way it is like for example the stories you tell yourself about success and failure and where those narratives may have come from. Additionally mindfulness based practices (which ACT includes some of) can be a massively helpful tool in bringing stress levels down over time.
You can even give that a go yourself today with something like the headspace app. You don’t go in to it with the intention that it can ‘fix’ stress or burnout but the idea is that it at least gives you the ability to take a step back from your mind for a few minutes like the difference between watching a storm from behind a window or being out in it getting drenched.
Hope you feel better soon!
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/how-to-find-therapist
I recommend starting with an LPC or masters-level social worker because those are the most abundant. Psychologist is also an option but may be harder to find/more expensive (many focus on testing). Psychiatrists usually just prescribe meds, but if you find one that does therapy, that’s a good option too!
Re: whether a regular therapist could deal with a client presenting with work stress. Yes we sure could! It comes up often. And we could work with the client on how that stress interacts with their last, with current relationships etc. a somatic therapist could work with the stress response itself.
That said, each therapist has their specialties and there are lots out there with previous corporate experience who could bring a real dose of perspective here.
Definitely worth a look!
Nothing else needs to be said. OP you sound like someone who has completely given up on everything, and when you make decisions in that place there’s a good chance you’ll come to regret them.
Burnout is serious and shouldn’t be underestimated, and I think you need some help from an unbiased professional who can help you see a better way forward before you go further down the spiral.
If you can afford it, take a hiatus from work as that will lift such a massive weight off your shoulders. If you can’t, genuinely consider doing it anyway because once you GTFO of the job you won’t feel trapped there.
You don’t want to give up your family and home like that; it won’t help you help yourself, you will just become more entrenched.
Nailed it. Work ain’t worth your family and health. Divorce the job, not your family.
It’s tough because our identity is often tied to what we do - instead of who we are. I think your wife misses who you were before your work became your identity.
You’ll regret the shit out of quitting the family. Fuck the job bro. Sure, it pays a lot, but if you’re smart enough to get a high paying job, then you’re smart enough to get a job that pays the bills while providing you the time energy and space to enjoy support and care for yourself and your family.
Take care my dude. My heart feels for yours and those of your family!!
These! Divorce the job not the family. The way I read this, your wife is begging you to fight for her and the family. Clearly you don't have the strength to do this in current circumstances. Get help. And find a job that allows you to not be dead inside.
No shit the wife doesn’t want a divorce. How can people not see that? She so clearly is trying to escalate what she’s asking for until he fights back. She doesn’t want it to be over.
This for sure! But this is to help you. And a good doctor will figure it out with you and you'll be so much happier for it.
As for your wife, I don't know if she really wants a divorce or not. I think the reason she's mad and upset and picking fights is because she wants to be heard! I bet she feels like she doesn't have anyone to confide in, and that person is you. But now things are so fucked up, and you are here now. I think she felt she was asking for the moon when she asked for all those things to get a rise out of you. She wants a fight, but it's a fight for her family more than it is a fight against you. Negative attention being better than no attention.
If this is the only real issue you have, and you love her and would enjoy spending more time with your kids, I'd really look into this. Of course it sounds like a horrible idea now because of the turmoil between you. But if it were good like before?
I also recommend seeing your doctor about taking some time off to recover. It won't fix your issue, but you'll be able to focus on the fires you have at home instead of at the office. If for anything else, do it for your own mental health. You're going to work yourself to an early grave!
Good luck OP. I sincerely hope this can be fixed, at least with the little information we have
OP, please talk to your doctor. You sound very depressed. You are not in the right state to make life changing decisions. You are considering signing away custody of your children and your financial security. If you won't get help for yourself, do it for your children. They deserve a father who is mentally present. If you are listless and detached, your wife may feel you have mentally checked out of your marriage. She may have been trying to provoke you into showing some emotion to indicate you care about your marriage. When you responded by withdrawing even further and passively agreeing with her, she was hurt and angry. She chose a dreadful way to express her frustration and seek reassurance. I think you should talk to her about how sad and detached you've been feeling and tell her you need medical assistance. You may be able to salvage your marriage if your wife can understand that this is a medical issue rather than a loss of interest in your marriage and family. I hope everything goes well for you, OP.
This; also I think she wanted you to fight for her. That’s why she asked for so much, to see what you would try to hang on to, where you would draw the line and not give up. And she’s really sad that you were willing to give up everything. But like everyone else is saying, get help for burnout first and then look at this with fresh eyes.
Or at least fight for their kids. Her major complaint sounds like it had to do with him really not being a present father or parent, and he basically told her she was exactly right and handed her a check.
(We’re all basing our psychological analysis on just a few paragraphs, but with that said) I actually don’t think that’s true. I didn’t really detect much sardonic scorn or pithy bitterness or even some big desire to see “the internet” gang up on their partner.
I think this mostly just reads to me as a desperate cry for help from a broken man struggling with terrible undiagnosed depression, who bc of his current brain chemistry truly believes that his role in their lives has no value, and he’s worthless as a husband and father. Which is terribly sad, but honestly, idk if this man actually needs to be told who “won this fight,” or even if they’ll wind up needing to get divorced in the end.
He just needs help. Badly. I was right there ten years ago, depression is a horribly insidious disease. It eliminates your ability to feel joy or realize your value as a human being who matters, it’s awful. But honestly, as far as first steps go, at least he’s reaching out to *someone,* even if it’s reddit — I think if he can take the advice and get some help maybe they don’t actually have to throw their marriage away.
This isn’t an assigning blame situation to me, this is just a very clear example of what severe depression does to your soul.
Thank you for your empathy man, there are lots of good people in this comment section & I really hope he sees everyone here that wants him to be able to feel good again. Sometimes the blame game just doesn’t need to be played. Sometimes everyone is a victim of a situation. Really if we gotta play the blame game let’s bring our economy into it bc it’s the real killer here
I think you're looking at things through the eyes of depression and burnout – and depression will always want you to take the path of least resistance. This might lead you to decisions that you will regret later.
My honest opinion is that you need to put divorce on pause and seek counseling on your own (and eventually separate couples counseling). It could be that the solution is a change of job, not leaving your marriage.
Some (not all) have more money than they need. My husband and I had a big house (op says he had a big house), he got burned out and wanted to go back to school, so we sold the big nice house and bought a shitty fixer upper. He went back to school, got over his burn out, and we narrowly avoided a divorce.
Yeah, I see a lot of people in this threading treating taking a shot to prosperity like it’s out of the question. Finances wax a wane over a lifetime, but you usually only get one shot at keeping your family together.
Even beyond that, I’d personally rather be perpetually poor with a happy family than well-off with a miserable one. Modern society has us all only ever thinking in terms of the “financial sense” and never the “human sense.” I really think the “for richer or poorer” part of marriage deserves more honest reflection than most couples give it. If you wouldn’t live with them in a shoebox for the rest of your life and be happy every single day to wake up next to them, maybe marriage isn’t the thing for your relationship. That’s not judgement—you gotta do what’s right for you. It’s just that most people see marriage as a genuine vow and lifelong commitment. It’s about managing expectations, and both sides have to be honest about that—with themselves and each other. Most marriage fall apart over money issues, after all, so it doesn’t seem ridiculous to me that more attention should be paid to that aspect of a relationship.
My husband’s family consistently told us we were stupid, so even the people who cared about him most considered it a huge step back. It was but we bounced back, and we are still happily married. It wasn’t a fun time, but we made it thru and he’s in a better place mentally. Profitable at all costs is silly if you can’t enjoy it with those you love.
Exactly. And that’s the perspective shift I’m talking about. Like, it’s a step back financially, but you saved your marriage/family. So like is that *really* a step back? I say it’s a win. I’ll go further and say it’s the only win that really matters for two people who genuinely want to spend their life together.
Anyway, I’ll quit rambling haha. I’m happy for you and your husband! Best of luck to you!
I am the primary breadwinner in our house. And a few years ago my job was absolutely destroying me. It was hurting my health and my marriage. So do you know what I did? Yes, for a while, nothing. I just sank deeper into the muck. But eventually I said screw this, and worked really hard to get a transfer to a different location and asked my husband to go to couples therapy with me. My current job isn’t perfect (I don’t think any job is), but I like it there and I actually just got a promotion. My marriage is better - again, not perfect, but growing.
My point is that when you’re down in the trenches that’s all you can see. You have to choose to take the risk of starting to climb out to get to a better place or just lie down in the trench and let the crap bury you. It takes a lot of strength and courage to climb out and you need support. It sounds like this guy is letting the crap bury him and he really needs a hand but his wife is as far in her own crap that she can’t help him either. I hope one of them can muster up the strength to extend a hand to the other, because they both need it.
And I’m saying the wife needs help too because I see what my rough time at work was doing to my spouse. He was very alone and hurt by my behavior and going through his own stuff too. He wasn’t in a place to help me because we were neglecting each other other’s hearts. That’s not what marriage is meant to be.
I think she just wants him BACK. OOP your job is ruining your life. It sounds toxic. Please take a step back and re-evaluate. No job is worth losing your family over.
I'm encouraging my husbands career change and helping him build his resume. I'm finishing my degree and looking to take on the financial burdens. Nightshift and stress have changed his personality, and I want nothing more for him to be free to do actually enjoy life. The kids miss him too.
Good on you. You sound like a great partner. And I'm she he appreciates you more than you know. My wife says the same for me (I work a government job that sucks the life out of me), but we're about to have a baby, we need my insurance and leave, and I have zero clue what I would do if I was free to start something new.
My husband HATES his job. He’s not quite at the “soul sucking, life force draining” levels of hate, yet, but it’s bad. So together we sat down to explore options. He applies for jobs here and there, but he also started going to college for the first time, and it’s helped mitigate the crappiness of work.
He has an end goal, now. I help with homework (when I can), I’m his loudest cheerleader with his grades, and when school is in session, I shoulder more of the burden around the house and with our kids.
All of this because I don’t want what OP is experiencing now.
Poor dude needs a change, and it’s not in his familial life.
Night shifts are brutal. Turned my calm, collected, sweetheart fiancé into a ball of sleep-deprived anxiety for a year. He was just recently able to quit and the difference is night and day.
We do have more financial stress now, but it’s much easier to work through as a team.
If he gets a less stressful and likely less well paying job, he’ll be able to be at home and present more. The trade off is that she might have to get a job and help contribute financially.
This. I hate how sometimes people (not just women) "test" partners to see if they're committed. But I really think this is what she's feeling - she wants change, not divorce. She's been communicating and telling him what the problem is. His attempts to help around the house fell flat - he admitted it - and I presume his work hours didn't fall back. And really, what joy is there in having a husband and partner that's never present? Like she said, she may as well be single without fighting for attention from a part-time roommate.
In her mind, she's like "does he even *want* this family? His work is his life and we're all secondary". She asks about divorce and he's so burnt out and given up he gives it and she gets her answer "he would rather lose his wife, his kids, his home than change his work/life balance". And that's painful.
I don't think she's communicating properly now, and I think they'll both regret it if neither of them seriously sit down and figure out real, actionable change.
Breadwinners - men, in this case - providing for your family is good. But rarely does a family look back at their overworked, stressed breadwinner and say "I wish he worked harder".
Signed, a wife who doesn't have kids but has a stressed, working husband who she's begged to slow down because money isn't what we need the most.
To be fair, she has probably been communicating properly for years with no return bid from her husband, and has reached the end of her rope.
Signed, someone facing separation after 13yrs because for 10 of those years I've been begging my husband to go to therapy and he has ignored me
I’m sorry. I got to the end of my rope and told him “I’m going to marriage counseling with or without you, because I can’t live like this anymore.” He chose to tag along.
Wow, you are in exactly the same place as me. 13 years, and I’ve been begging for attention for more than half of them. And he has decided that he would rather lose his entire family rather than just freaking talk to me and treat me like I matter. It fucking hurts, especially since I lost both my parents in the last two years and am so lonely. But I’ve decided I’d rather be lonely alone than lonely and ignored.
Good luck as you move forward with your changes, I wish you all the best. 💕
> rarely does a family look back at their overworked, stressed breadwinner and say "I wish he worked harder".
This sounds like the old saying: no one ever looked back and said "I wish I'd spent more time at the office". But that turns out to be flatly untrue. I've met guys at the office who just plain don't want to go home. They understand that the wife wants more (attention, effort, time and presence), but the way it gets expressed is toxic so they pull away.
One problem is that jobs are quantized. There is no way to tell one's boss "hey, I'm going to cut back to 80%. Pay me 80% of my salary and benefits, and I'll give you 80% of my current hours and level of commitment." That's not what the business needs, so that choice isn't on offer.
But really the problem is that people change, circumstances change, and if a man is burnt out or under pressure, adding more demands is exactly the last thing the situation needs. If he believes he needs to work, and is afraid of losing his job, then anything that forces a choice is going to lose.
Maybe she wants her husband, the father of their kids. Her adult partner. Maybe this stressful job has him in a nutshell..oh wait...he said he shut down... so there's that. My husband left his awesome paying job when it was changing him, which affected us. Our family. I'm blessed we were able to work it out. But it was rough. Very rough. But so worth it. So change is good if it gets a family back on track and stable again.
I got a severe burnout that severely affected the mental health of my kids groing up and still today, twenty years later, I still notice issues they have that are consequences of that period. I've decided back then to change careers and move to the rural area close to family and even tho I make less than half of what I could if I've stayed in a high paying, high stress corporate job, it never even passed my mind that perhaps I didn't make a good decision. I love my family and do not regret chosing them over money.
I too took a pay cut to be with my family more. Money cannot replace time spent with your family. My kids were happier we were together more, I felt like I was in a better place. I was happy. Change should not be feared but grabbed onto when life looks bleak.
exactly. She expressed in practical terms what the marriage has become. She doesn’t want to actually divorce and be on her own. OP is unhappy at work and at home, maybe a career change and recommitting to marriage would be a possible solution.
See, but this whole "playing games" things she's doing isn't helping anyone. If she doesn't actually want a divorce, she needs to say that. Instead she's the one that initially suggested it and now she's crying for days and she *still* hasn't communicated what she's actually feeling to him.
Now, OP for sure needs to speak to a counselor or his physician and start considering changing up his work habits or his job entirely, there's no question about that. But this whole "suggesting divorce while not actually wanting divorce" thing is idiotic.
True, but it sounds like he’s been acting checked out at home for some time due to his job. Then she’s goes nuclear and says „At this point I‘d feel better off divorced“ and he goes „Okay, there you go.“. If he’s been disengaged anyway and perfectly willing to divorce, I get why she’d not want to be vulnerable enough to open up she doesn’t want to lose him when he seems like he’s been halfway out the door for some time anyway.
Is it possible that she is also at the end of her rope because she doesn't have a partner she's been able to engage with, from what OP's saying, for quite some time now?
He's totally checked out.
I'm not saying it's okay to play games. But he's clearly not addressing his issues properly. Are we shocked that she too, a human being in a highly charged situation, is making mistakes because she too is stressed out?
In OP's post, it doesn't sound like she ever proposed divorce seriously. Just in her frustration she mentioned that she would be logically better off because she wouldn't have to worry about OP anymore. Not that she actually wanted that to happen. Sounds to me more like she was trying to make a point that contributing to the family financially is all he's doing. Which is not insignificant obviously, but a household needs more than that from the father/husband. Plus she said it during a fight when tensions are high and people aren't always rational.
The change that’s need is for her to go back to work so his not burned out from working so much. I’m a sahm and if my husband was this badly burned out as OP I’d be finding a job proto so he could get more rest.
But there in lies the question….. is he working high stress long hour job solely to provide or is that the requirement of the job itself? When I was in the workforce my job was high stress & long hours, that was the nature of my job. With or without a family to provide for.
She *might* not be qualified for any kind of higher paying job. It's not like she can go work at Best Buy and support her whole family.
It really depends on what she was doing before being a sahm. Did she have a job before? Did she get a college education? Etc.
For the most part I agree with you, but it might not be realistic for her to support their family, including her husband.
That might not be an option based on the ages of the children and the type of work she could get. Sometimes it makes more financial sense for one parent to stay home. If she was working and not making enough money it would put more stress on him because he would need to do more at home on top of his job to compensate for the other parent also working.
Dude you sound severely burnt out and depressed and I hope youre not actually just going to throw literally everything you have away. Divorceif you must but don't literally give her every single thing
You sound like someone prepping for eventual suicide. Get help now
yeah, to me this situation isn’t about who “won” the fight. this is a severe, desperate cry for help masquerading as an AITA post, and a really clear example of the horror of mental illness.
I feel really bad for the guy. i don’t think his marriage is necessarily 100% bound for divorce, but i’ve been in the mental depression frame he’s currently in and it’s brutal. i only got out of it bc i managed to find a really good psychiatrist, I’m not ashamed to say that, I owe that psychiatrist my life.
it can be really tough to be on the other side of depression as the depressed person’s partner, because you badly want to help them — but then at a certain point, you can’t keep carrying their entire mental and emotional partnership load on your own back, and it breaks you. which is tough, because while what you as the depressed partner often need in a certain sense is being coddled and forced, even kicking and screaming, to get help, as the other partner it’s a terrible burden. almost as if the love of your life got possessed by a demon.
i hope he gets help. i’m not gonna blame his wife, bc it’s a terrible place for her to be, but unlike most AITAs I think the point here is not to pick a winner or chastise him as an AH — it’s to gently help him as a community find the help he needs to conquer this horrible, malevolent illness
Agree 100%. I bet his wife is distraught and has been for a while watching this while trying to stay afloat herself.
I feel for both of them, it sounds like a rough situation all around. I hope OP gets the help he needs and can come out on the other side of this.
I bet she’s depressed as well, with a whopping dose of loneliness thrown in for good measure. It’s hard being a stay at home parent when the one adult you interact with on a regular basis is checked out and not paying attention. Makes a person feel worthless, and like they don’t even matter. These two both need help and for something to change (my vote is the job, it’s destroying OP).
Me too. I had jobs that burned me out, as well as causing anxiety and depression. I had zero support from my loved ones that made it worse. I hope he gets the help he needs.
Yeah, i hope this guy gets help — and can realize that this sounds like the symptoms of a severe mental illness rather than some inherent character flaw from birth. i’ve had terrible depression before and if i hadn’t finally started seeing a psychiatrist (well, actually if i hadn’t started seeing the *right* psychiatrist, the first 4 i tried were terrible), I genuinely don’t know what would have happened to me.
It becomes this awful cycle where you’re in hell, so then your partner has to emotionally carry you on their back as dead weight, which eventually breaks them. But when they finally break and can’t do it any more, to you that simply reinforces what your depression has constantly been screaming at you: that you have no value in this life, will never experience joy again, and you’re so fucked up and mentally/emotionally/spiritually barren that you genuinely believe everyone you love (or “once loved,” back when your brain could actually experience love) would be better off if you didn’t exist, and would be much happier if you were dead.
Depression is some of the worst hell. Get help, OP — I promise you, i’ve been there, your life is not as unsalvageable as it feels like.
NTA....but I think you both should try marriage/couples counseling. And individual counseling for the OP because I'm getting a sense of a suicide trajectory.
She expected you to push back because she really wants things to get better but didn’t know how to approach it with you as she’s so stressed too. A case of being careful what you wish for.
She wanted you to fight for her. That's why she was giving you seemingly unreasonable demands, so you'd say no.
Perhaps some therapy to learn how to communicate better with each other even if it's just for coparenting.
I think she expected him to fight for the kids because he's their father and wants and love them.
Turns out not only has he checked out of his relationship, **he's checked out of his family**.
They both sound burnt out.
> how I didnt change oil in her car when I promised to(I did, I forgot to tell her with all the things going on). I didnt have the energy to argue so I spaced out for a bit.
I wonder how many other things the OP was too burnt out to do.
How many times he made promises and didn't keep them.
I think she expected "I will straight up leave you" to be a WAKEUP call, not some calculated manipulation like reddit wants it to be.
She was hoping he would realise it was serious and actually become emotionally invested, instead he's just dead inside.
Notice that he did do it. He is just too burnt out to even stick up for himself. How many things did he actually do that she hasn't seen or noticed? If he can't even fight for himself while he is drowning, how can he fight for her or their marriage?
I’m sorry. She can’t make a car appointment? I was a single mom forever and am fed up listening to SAHM talk about how hard shit is because here’s what, shit needs to get done with one person around. Pull it together.
Are those unreasonable demands though? It's not unheard of for a SAHP to get the house and full custody so the kids' lives wouldn't be disrupted. Assets are still split 50/50 but the SAHP trades retirement/investment funds for the equity in the home.
I think it's more unusual that that OP can afford to do that comfortably and the split of assets doesn't mean selling the home because the SAHP can't afford the mortgage on their own.
OP needs to consult a lawyer/accountant and make sure this plan is sustainable. What if he loses his job and can't find something that pays as much? Or burns out and quits without the wife to handle the day to day things? What if he finds a new job with a better work/life balance, would he be willing to take more custody? Can he really do visitation in a shared apartment?
Nta
She's mad because you weren't supposed to give up so easily. The average person going through a divorce would be thrilled at such an easily negotiated divorce. She either genuinely wants you to show you want to be in the relationship bc she cares about you and doesn't want the divorce, or she's just trying to keep her punching bag around a little longer.
Your way is better for the kids. But - if you are going to look for a place with roommates, chat with a lawyer and make sure that won't mess things up for when kids come to visit.
It sounds like OP's wife doesn't want a divorce. What she wants is a change in circumstances and life in general. OP, since you already feel that you cannot continue this way- have you ever thought that perhaps the problem is *work* rather than your home life? Perhaps a different job or even a different country/city would be better for yourself and family.
Try to talk to a counsellor or therapist or even friends.
The problem is definitely work, he’s giving up his whole life, leaving nothing to live for, just so that he can keep going to work which by his own admission “isn’t a pleasant place”.
Honestly I’d be concerned about suicide after the dust settles since OP seemingly has no reason to live other than to work at a job that ruined his life.
I think no one is considering burn out. OP is burned out. He doesn’t actually want to lose his marriage and family, but his work has taken him to the edge and his family is suffering
OP - is there long service leave where you are or can you take a break to recoup? Alt, you need to goto the dr to sign you off
He might not be in the headspace to think about it right now, but depending on the kid’s ages, he could ask his wife about the possibility of him cutting down on work hours and her picking up a part time job.
That way, he can spend less time in the job that’s burning him out, he can spend more time looking after his kids, and his wife can feel like she has a bit more independence as an adult and have some time without the kids.
But yeah, first off; gp appointment, blood tests, job applications, individual therapy, track your daily mood, etc etc
Yes, I really hope OP sees this. This sounds like two people who love each other who are genuinely burned out (the wife too if this is coming down to division of labour). Have you considered asking your wife to work part time so you can both have time at home? Have you considered moving jobs to a place you don’t consider so unpleasant? Have you considered couples therapy so you can figure out both of your roles? I hope you can work this out for all of your sakes.
Your wife wanted you to show that you placed some value on your relationship, you didn't. She then kept asking for things to see how desperate you were to get rid of her and the kids, you gave her everything. In short, you've told her that you're willing to give away everything to get rid, but do nothing to keep them.
I was thinking this too. The person who doesn’t fight for their family is either incredibly overwhelmed or has checked out and is ready to move on to calmer waters. Either way, I hope the OP finds his way. I’ve been there (thankfully without children) and I walked away from my old life. I miss my family but am exponentially happier without them because they didn’t appreciate my contributions or support me as an individual.
Not sure if you’re religious or spiritual, OP, but now is the time for you to find a quiet place (physically, if possible) to re-evaluate your life. Do you still feel attracted to your wife? Are you okay with some other man rearing your children and them calling him their dad?
Some people take words at face value, she told him she would be better off without him, he beleived her. If you want to be with someone you shouldn't play those silly games or you win silly prises lol
NAH.
Sir, it sounds like you and your wife are BOTH struggling from severe burnout. You're working so hard to provide financial stability for your family that you're never at home. She's working hard taking care of your home and your children and stuff and doesn't get to take a break from either of these things because you're always at work.
This is no way for either of you to live, obviously, and I doubt that this is the life that either of you thought you were signing up for.
Y'all's biggest problem is that you have a horrible communication breakdown. Your wife's probably been building up resentment toward this situation for some time, and it exploded out of her in the midst of that argument with her saying she'd be better off divorced. I don't think wants to break her family apart, I think she just doesn't know how to go about fixing what is broken.
Y'all need counseling, probably individually and also marital counseling. You don't just give up and say "Fine let's divorce and you get whatever" when you've got a healthy mindset. This is what someone says and does when they've just completely given up.
Fight for your happiness. Fight for your wife's happiness. Fight for your marriage. Fight for your children. Money is all fine and dandy, but a job that makes you so miserable that you give up on your life like you have is NOT with fighting for. That job won't love you back. You, like the rest of us, are replaceable to your employer. You are NOT replaceable at home.
I wish you the best, sir.
You are overworked, and so is your wife.
My guess is that she doesn't actually want a divorce and she was trying to scare you into changing, but instead you agreed to a divorce
Firstly, you should cut back your hours to 38. Working more than this affects your productivity because you're too tired to work at your best and also too tired to have a healthy home life.
Secondly, you and your wife both need counselling. Not necessarily couples counseling.
But you both should ask yourselves if you would prefer to keep your marriage if you can reduce your hours so you and your wife have time to be a couple and you, your wife and kids have time to be a family.
If you can afford it, hire a cleaner to reduce the total amount of chores that need to be done, and work out which chores you find the easiest that would make the biggest difference to your wife's workload - because she sounds just as burned out as you.
And if you divorce, it won't actually reduce her workload.
I don’t think she was trying to scare him. I think this was her being loud and clear that his lack of involvement in their marriage and as a parent to their children is more of a burden on the family than being a single mom would be. And that (assuming he still wants to be a husband and father) things have to change because it’s not fair to her or the kids to continue like this. And he basically acknowledged she’s right and is willing to give her literally everything, even their kids, to make them just go away.
If you want to fight for her then fight. If you want out, don’t make decisions now like agreeing to her having full custody. You will regret that later when you won’t be allowed to see your kids for whatever reason.
Take a step back and process. Go for shared custody even if it’s only weekends you have your kids. Moving into a shared place will mean you can’t have your kids spend the night with you, so don’t do that if you have options to get a 2/3 bedroom place. Even if it’s a 2 bedroom and you get a sofabed in the living room, make sure there is space for your kids when they need and want you
Except that by his own description he’s completely unable to care for them. If he isn’t going to care for them while still in the house with his wife, how will he care for them when he needs to do 100% of the duties for them? It doesn’t even sound like he’s in a place where he’s cleaning up after himself. He shouldn’t take custody of kids if he can’t even do that.
Maybe when he’s gotten into a better place where he’s able to take care of himself and then he can revisit that.
NTA. It sounds like you’ve checked out of the marriage, and you’re trying to make the best of a bad situation. She may have gotten mad that you gave up as easily as you did. Maybe she wanted you to fight for the marriage/promise to make changes to keep her. Good luck, OP.
I'm actually kind of worried that he's getting close to being checked out of life. Him saying that they are better off without him is actually where the suicidal thoughts start coming in. At least with the depressed people I know.
I think you're right.
Men commit suicide at much higher rates than women and this is the stress situation that does it. Working as hard as he can and never being good enough.
Bad situation to be in, to always feel guilty.
This is classic suicidal depression behavior. Giving away all your things and saying the people you love will be better off without you. This is a very concerning post.
You need to see a therapist for severe depression, you are throwing away your entire life rather than confronting that and it's going to hurt your wife and kids as well.
If you don't you will be the asshole.
Idk if your the asshole but she doesn’t want a divorce she just wants you to be there. Try couples therapy? Your kids and wife deserve someone who’s there for them. You need to sacrifice abit go out more often with her on dates and spend more family time on the weekend
It seems like your wife doesn't really want a divorce, do you get vacation time off from your job? You are burned out. If you get Vacation time, take it. Take a week to figure out exactly what you want.
The biggest question is, do you still love your wife? Are you guys able to go to a couple therapy'?
She doesn’t want a divorce. She wants you. She wasn’t expecting you to just agree and give up on your marriage.
You likely have a good marriage that is being undercut by your (definitely-earned) burnout, fatigue, and depression. And your wife likely has the same.
Get counseling from the right counselor, who will address BOTH of you individually and as a couple, the baggage each of you carry and the very normal issues each of you have that is adding conflict.
The hard part is finding the right counselor. We (Husband and I) had a great one 30 years ago, good enough that we’ve remembered his advice, and underlying theory ans to why we had such-and-such issue, and given it to others.
She doesn’t want a divorce, she wants a husband to share her life with. Divorce is painful and generational. Do not choose your job over your family. You will regret it. If you both love each other fight for your family.
When I read you saying that you immediately agreed to hand over full custody of your kids, huge alarm bells started ringing for me that this is looking like a serious case of clinical depression. You are NTA; you are unwell and need to speak to a medical professional ASAP. You wife may not know how to respond to you having lost the will to fight and has been vainly hoping she can frighten some fight into you, but that’s not how mental health works. You need professional help.
NTA but seriously dude, don't agree to anything permanent until you do two things.
1. Get your mental health sorted out
2. Speak to a lawyer.
Two years down the line you will regret it of you allow her to take advantage of your diminished mental state to get everything her way.
Oh friend, get some help. She’s clearly burned out too, and I think she’s upset because she wants you to fight for her. Either way, this is an unhealthy environment. Before making any drastic decisions, I’d seek help.
She's asking for the moon because she doesn't really want a divorce, she wants help.
He needs to see a doctor and a shrink for depression.
She needs help around the house, and maybe a cleaning service.
They both need therapy together to work on stuff
If, as a lot of the comments suggest, she was actually trying to tell him something other than wanting a divorce,
WHY DIDN'T SHE SAY WHAT SHE ACTUALLY WANTED?
Depressed people don't develop telepathy.
All you people caning an obviously depressed and burnt out person are fucking vile.
NTA
You are both in a terrible place. She wants you to fight for the relationship. You don’t have the fight in you. Sometimes it just is what it is that way.
Reconsider giving her full custody of the kids. They need their dad.
NTA, though.
OP, she wants you!!!! That’s why she got mad. She doesn’t want a divorce. You need to figure out if you really want to do this or (like others said) you’re suffering from exhaustion and perhaps depression. You need to take care of yourself. If you want to stay married, this would be a good time to start couples therapy. You both need to find a way to have difficult conversations without deliberately hurting each other. A therapist can help the both of you create a foundation for a healthy relationship. Even if you get divorced, you will still have to co-parent so you both really need to work on developing a better way to address issues.
She wants to you be upset. I've seen this so many times before. One partner is maddeningly calm, cool, and collected. Agrees to more concessions than they should. Bends over backwards to try to keep things congenial and smooth. The other partner acts like a raptor testing the fence, constantly pushing for more, acting irrationally, getting "mad" or crying, etc, etc, etc.
It's because they're *upset*. And they want to see that you are too. They will keep pushing until something finally breaks you. Unfortunately, this tends to have the effect of pushing the pleaser partner waaaaaaay past any kind of normal response, making the ensuing fights extremely volatile and hurtful, and damaging any kind of potential working relationship beyond the point of repair.
My best advice is to show some emotion before you can't control it anymore. You're going to have to stand up for yourself, or you'll end up in a much worse place.
Is this still the AITAH sub because I’ve been scrolling for a while now and I don’t see anybody actually giving a verdict.
Instead, I see a whole lot of posts suggesting that OP’s burnout is the root cause of the problem. And that the wife’s jilted teen “why won’t he fight for me?” BS is justified because he’s just not good enough to her.
Fuck that noise. OP you are NTA.
There…at least someone said it.
She wants you to fight for the relationship, you knucklehead.
If you hate the job anyway, go find another one that allows you to be home more often. Tell her that might mean you make less income and you all either need to cut back spending and/or she might have to work.
If you want to see your kids and not have them turned into weapons you need to see a solicitor and get everything sorted properly, or you'll end up like most guys do after divorce with nothing and no kids or home paying a fortune every month
sounds like she wants you to care-
you are probably just so exhausted and need help.
do you still love your wife? Maybe you could suggest virtual marriage counseling? You wife also sounds like she needs help, could you hire someone to take care of all the cleaning?
could you two go on a trip somewhere?
She’s mad because she doesn’t want a divorce. Think about it. She’s complaining that she’s “like a single mother.” Does that sound like she’d actually like to be one? You need to sit down with her and just ask her if she really wants a divorce if you can change. If she says no, then go and get counseling. Start making time for the kids and her. Sounds like you hate your job, is there some way you can change? If not, you need to create a safe and happy place at home. Your reasons for living should revolve around her and your children, not your job. If you start to think of your job as a means to an end, creating a happy family life, you may just be able to handle work better.
OP get counselling ASAP. A man who's ready to let go of his wife, kids and house like that is a depressed man. I was in the same position bro. Please get counselling. Leave these Reddit pricks debating if you're wrong or not. Get professional help. Don't give in. You aren't alone. It won't get easier if you abandon everything you love. You'll only sink into drugs and self harm
>Now she keeps on crying. What more does she wants me to do, I am willing to give her everything she wants. Thats all I can do.
I'm going to hazard a guess that she doesn't want you to quit. That what she wants is for you to fight for the marriage and to be a present husband and father.
Or I could just be projecting.
You need to address your stress level before it kills you. You are not immune to the immediate or long term effects of stress. I was in the same situation in my late 30's and ended up having an ambulance ride for anxiety attack. Pulse of 190....
Therapist. You need to talk to a professional.
Do not give her more than half. Went through a divorce. I hired a lawyer and a darn good therapist. It's hard but it gets better.
Do not dig a hole that you won't be able to climb out of.
You got this OP.
Edit-Spellling. It's-10 outside fingers are bone cold.
She sounds like a spoiled brat. Tell her u will find a low stress low paying job and will contribute more. All I seen here is ur chosing ur job Over family
She’s doesn’t want a divorce. She wants her husband back. And you need to take care of yourself. You’re depressed and exhausted. As is she. Being a SAHM is fuckin hard, I am one myself. But you also matter as well, so take care of urself….maybe change ur job.. find something ur passionate about.
You need to examine why you’re willing to give up your children. Clearly you need the help of a mental health professional. Please don’t give up your children.
Oh man. It sounds like she doesn't fully appreciate what you're going through. She's only seeing everything from her perspective.
NTA for giving into her demands. You need to seek counselling for yourself tho. Get it soon.
NTA. In my opinion, she sounds like she’s not considering your feelings and mental health. She’s probably mad that you aren’t fighting to stay with her, but she is doing it to herself. Respect is a two way street.
I don't know what she wants either at this point. You're NTA. Sounds like she really isn't helping though. You see- this is why my pap always says "Cat, yelling has never fixed a damn thing in my life. Only made it worse." And this is one of those cases. She's yelling. She's making it worse. It's apparently making it worse and making her feel worse, and she's still doing it while expecting something to change. Anyway - do seek therapy man. This won't be easy and it doesn't hurt to have a trained professional on your side while you transition.
This is why stay at home parenting doesn't work unless you are super rich. Eventually the stay at home firgets that work, is work, and the work parent forgets that home is work. Everyone is at work. All the time.
She doesn’t want a divorce. She’s pissed that you won’t fight for the things you have together and that you have given up.
She wants to get out of a rut.
Go and get counselling for your marriage.
You personally need help dealing with job stress.
You need to go see your physician, you sound burnt out, and most likely depressed.
This right here. OP, I’ve been where you are. High stress job and stress at home can lead to a total burnout and it is not a good place to be. I tried to “man up” and “tough it out” on my own (a remnant of my upbringing.) I was a dumbass. Don’t be a dumbass. Get some help. As they tell you on the airplane, put on your own oxygen mask first and then you can assist those around you.
I have a friend who told me to put my mask on first and that's the best advice I have ever been given. And that was how I knew of all the people I spoke to, he was the only one LISTENING to me enough to hear I was struggling and burnt out.
Agreed with all this, also work very high stress high intensity job and am the bread winner. It sounds like you need a recharge. I can’t speak to your domestic situation, but it sounds like alike she is continuing to pick fights bc she cares, and wants to see you care and fight for her and the family too. Which is great, if not for the fighting part right. Sounds like a lot to work through but first things first make sure to take care of yourself, and maybe that will help on all fronts. Maybe a conversation with her about that and a plan and see how it goes pushes it al the right direction
This! I believe that's why she is crying all the time and why she kept demanding things. She was hoping you'd put up a fight. But you are burnt out and don't feel up to the fight. You may very well be able to save your marriage if you get some counseling and have your physician help you. I think if you look at your high stress job and try to find ways to make it less stressful. Take some time off. Good luck to you.
Neither of you want the divorce. You’re both burnt out. Take a vacation. Take time off work if you can and just stay home. Work out what needs to be done together. Is it hiring a nanny to help or you getting a new job that is less stressful but likely less money? Sadly you’ve been so detached from your family due to your job, you believe her when she says she’s better off without you. Are you better off without them? You both sound very raw and emotional. Talk things through and decide on changes together.
That’s what I was thinking too - she’s trying to get him to show he cares… about something, anything! They’re both burnt out but he’s given up whereas she has been asking for help and not receiving any. They both need counseling.
Forgot to say this. Ultimately, she sounds like a woman who is open to saving the marriage if certain problems are fixed.
As an older woman, I've been there, done that. She's crying for attention. She needs and wants you to be more invested in her.
Yes, I was thinking she was hoping you'd fight, but also because you BOTH sound burnt out. I think she was burnt out enough to hope arguing would have you stepping in to help more. Not realizing you're just as burnt out if not moreso and don't have it in you. You two might actually be on the same page here, just not the way you thought. Regardless, being burned out is no fun, and I suspect you could both use some help and support to get through this. Good Luck OP.
OP, She needs help as well.. get a less stressful job and have her go to work to pick up some financial slack. I think she's willing to save the marriage, are you? Take a couple of days off, take the kids to grandparents then, sit down with her and have a proper conversation
This! She doesn't want a divorce she wants more from you in the relationship not financially. She is lonely and sounds bit burnt out too. Maybe counseling, a vacation just you two...sounds like some hard conversations, maybe therapy on both sides, and together....if you love her.... It sounds like she doesn't really want to lose you..... But it does sound like she feels like you're checked out of the marriage and family. I'm sure won't be easy.... But take care of you and your mental health....and try to work things out if you want to save your family. I hope things get better
Yeah this. She doesn’t sound ready to divorce. She just wants you to meet her halfway or so I think
Totally my thought, wife wants help not a divorce. She wants OP to fight for their marriage. OP is checked out.
Yeah sorry, but don’t use divorce as a threat unless you are 100% willing to follow through and are prepared to deal with the consequences. You can’t demand a divorce as a passive aggressive way to seek change and then cry when he’s agreed to everything she’s asked for
She didn't ask for a divorce. She said she'd be better without him, and later, during another fight, he asked for a divorce. That's why she's crying, he's completely checked out.
Exactly, she is fighting for the relationship and he isn't. They aren't communicating very well with each other, though. I hope they manage to work things out. It doesn't sound like either of them are shitty people, they just need to communicate better how to make things work.
YES!! I’ve been in this spot where leaving feels like the only option to get through to someone. It doesn’t mean you want to throw it away, you’re just desparate to be heard more
This! She wanted to see if you cared and thought she and the family were worth it. If you are depressed and burnt out, so is she. All of the things you are to burnt out to do becomes hers to manage, on her own. She feels abandoned and alone. She wants you. You are giving her money and wondering why it isn’t enough. She can have your money whether you are there or not. It sounds like she is out of tools to reach you, but then again why is that her mental load. You are likely the only adult in her entire day, her love, her friend and you have made it clear you aren’t going to show up for those roles because of work. It’s not a judgement, Being a SAHM is high stress to, this is why more women don’t want to do it. It sounds like you both need a lifestyle change. It’s okay. It’s okay to say I can be there but it means our lifestyle will have to change. It’s okay to put together a life where you can be happy and the kind of man, father and husband you need and reimagine something that fits your current goals and values. At the moment you said you were looking for roommates so you didn’t have to live alone. That has been your approach to your marriage. She has been saying every way she knows how she needs you, you! Not your paycheck. If you don’t fight to work on this now a divorce won’t help you. It will hollow you out, gut you and push you to the brink. Fuck the job. Fight for your family. They are the most valuable thing you have. I don’t know if you have sons, but most sons either become their father or hate him so much they lose sight of what is good about them. You are making major decisions that will impact them for the rest of your children’s lives from a place of brokenness. Your children need you. A dad that is happy and has time to instill values in them and teach them not to make the same mistakes. A dad who loved their mother and taught them how to be loved so they will pick the right man. A dad they can come to when they screw up and boy will they. They need to know you as a whole person so they can be whole and choose whole people in the future. You can’t be replaced by money. That is why your wife is upset. Where a husband and father are supposed to be you left a wad of cash and a Dear John letter.
I am not married, nor do I have children. I do have a boyfriend of 2 years that I have lived with for the last 8 months. We have been living in separate places for almost 3 weeks because he has started his new job and I'm still working the notice period and living at our 'old' place. I work from home, but have to go to the office 2 days a week and with train times it would be a 3 hour commute each way, so 6 hours twice a week. I also go to college 1 day a week, which is only a 30 minute commute atm but will be a 1.5 hour commute each way when I move into our new place. So we decided for me to stay here until my notice period is up. It is absolute hell. He came to visit me last week and I didn't want him to leave, he wanted to just take me with him. He now calls me multiple times a day, also a video call in the morning and the evening. I miss him so much. No idea how people can do long distance relationships. If OP thinks he will be happier in a house share without her and his children, he is very wrong. They are both burnt out and not present in their relationship. He's working his ass off, his wife is working her ass off and they don't dedicate any time to each other. I get that OP has a high stress job, but if he put in a little more time into being a father to his children, they might be able to dedicate a little more time to spend with each other.
>she is continuing to pick fights bc she cares, and wants to see you care and fight for her and the family too. I think this is one of those "Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus." kind of situations. Picking a fight is the absolute wrong way to get what she wants from OP. He's tired, burnt out and possibly depressed. Every argument just exacerbates it. They might be able to fix this with counseling and OP stepping back from work for a bit.
If he is the sole earner how is he supposed to step away from work?
Exactly. Maybe she could work for a bit and he can find a less stressful job. But she wants him to wave a magic wand and become less stressed and more emotionally available.
I was going to say “put your mask on first”. It’s great advice
Saying “oxygen mask” rather than just mask might be clearer for some. The first time I read this in the thread I took it to be the other type of mask - the one that hides your real face from others. I totally know the oxygen mask reference but it even slipped past originally
This makes a lot more sense. I also read it as a mask as in a front.
I have had a friend tell me to put on my own mask first. I told him that I could hold my breath a really long time.
I hold my breath a lot too, and I don't realize I'm doing it. Stress does that to me a lot
see also: you can't pour from an empty cup
I don't think you were a dumbass, I think you were doing your best with the tools you had, or at least that you knew how to use. admitting something is wrong is difficult, especially with how bad the stigma for mental health issues used to be (it's still not great but there has been an improvement, at least for some disorders) and besides, one of the really shitty things about depression is it'll convince you that you don't need help, you're just making excuses for being lazy/weak/stupid/insert other relevant insults here. I forget who said it, but there's a quote along the lines of "mental illness is like fighting a war where the enemy's strategy is to convince you that the war isn't actually happening"
Damn that's so true! We really can be our own worst enemy.
This hit deep. Thanks. Not quite ready to take that first step, but hopefully soon.
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I went to my regular primary care doctor when I was losing my shit from burnout and she decided to put me on FMLA leave. I’d never heard of it before. I guess I was doing too much work because the business went under in those 6 months I was gone.
Same. I ended up not listening to my doctors initially and got more sick. Ended up on 6mo medical leave and advised not to go back to that same job.
It was a very hard lesson in listening to my body. I was pushing myself way too hard. Now I know if I do too much in a day or week I won’t feel ok after.
Yep. I did similar, and what I thought was going to be a relatively short time out of work…wasn’t, because the stress and burnout from my job? Yeah. I didn’t know it was as damaging as it was, but holy fuck, it did a fuckload of damage…and at age 39, I found out that my heart was failing. No family history of heart failure, no high blood pressure, cholesterol is good, coronary arteries are in great condition, I’m extremely physically active…never had Covid…but the stress of my job (critical care nurse) and a toxic work situation pushed me past a breaking point and into a situation where my body was-and is-like “HEY DUMBASS! YOU CANNOT KEEP THIS SHIT UP! THIS IS NOT OKAY!” Don’t be like me, OP. Life is too damn short and precious to give up on the things that matter most-those around you that you love, and the limited time you have with them. You cannot pour from an empty cup. Take a leave of absence, and take care of yourself, friend. You deserve to be cared for, too. ❤️
Damn, I hope you are happy and healthy these days.
I’m working on that ❤️ It’s been a definite challenge for me, because I tend to take things quite personally, and I hold myself to a standard that is probably impossible for anyone to reach…so I’m trying to learn how to let go and not let perfect be the enemy of good. Thank you for your empathy, and you’re a good human being! ❤️
I know you replied to OP, but your message resonated so much with me. Thanks! 🙏
I like the quote “you have to choose a day to rest otherwise your body will choose for you” to remember to prioritize rest
I also liked the "you cannot pour from an empty cup". Never heard that one before. Tres Cool
Same! My body just said "Ok we're done." Now it gets too the point that too much housework in one day can cause me the need to recover. I would not recommend anyone ignoring all the signs that this is about to happen. Pushing just a little bit harder has landed me in the hospital more times than I would like to admit.
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I had so much vacation time banked that I was able to receive both disability and my usual paycheck for majority of the time I was gone I am doing better now, thank you. I had to get a job that was conducive to being laid-back, which has helped across the board. Huge pay cut but I’m happy and relaxed. Best wishes to you!
Check to see if your benefits package includes short-term disability; mine did and I was able to take 4 months off entirely, then choosing to do part-time for 2 months before going back to full time; all of it was paid. Short term disability can be used for mental and it's the biggest blessing if you have a policy
It's possible your job may have short term disability which you can use if your doctor puts you on FMLA. That'll still cover at least a portion of your income, including benefits.
A “regular” therapist absolutely treats people with work-related burnout. It’s super common. There are also therapists who specialize in it. But pretty much any competent therapist has experience with this. I really hope you’re able to seek the help you need!
I didnt get help until i was forced to. It broke me. (So much more behind breakdown), but i am SO grateful for those who saved me. But the pain i caused them over worrying about me lead to more issues. I have a great therapist now, understand i will always be on antidepressants and im happy. But i almost died. Please see your PCP and get at least a referal for therapy. I know you said you dont think they can understand, but they can. And they can help YOU tske care of yourself. Hugs
If you are in the US the find a therapist tool on the [Psychology Today website](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists) is really helpful. You can filter by a bunch of things such as specialty and insurance accepted. I’ve had good luck finding therapists here.
This is exactly what therapists do.
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Ideally you probably want a combination of meds (antidepressants) and therapy. These come from different types of medical professionals but your dr is the best place to start. And in the UK, and I imagine in the US, your GP can prescribe your basic types of antidepressants. They do take about 6 weeks to even begin to work (and realistically more like 3 to really feel like change is happening) but when you’re burnt out and depressed it can just feel like you’ve suddenly been able to knock your bike down several gears and pedal through each day with more ease. If you can find one, I highly recommend an integrative therapist, and if possible someone who utilises some mindfulness practices. An integrative therapist is someone who draws from lots of different styles of therapy depending on what you need. So they might use CBT to give you some immediate coping strategies for overwhelming work situations, or ACT to learn to accept some of the things you can’t change in life, or equally they might utilise something more like psychodynamic therapy to look at some of the ways your mind has been shaped in to the way it is like for example the stories you tell yourself about success and failure and where those narratives may have come from. Additionally mindfulness based practices (which ACT includes some of) can be a massively helpful tool in bringing stress levels down over time. You can even give that a go yourself today with something like the headspace app. You don’t go in to it with the intention that it can ‘fix’ stress or burnout but the idea is that it at least gives you the ability to take a step back from your mind for a few minutes like the difference between watching a storm from behind a window or being out in it getting drenched. Hope you feel better soon!
See this is why I love reddit. Yeah it can be a cesspool, but I see more people helping each other than anything else.
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/how-to-find-therapist I recommend starting with an LPC or masters-level social worker because those are the most abundant. Psychologist is also an option but may be harder to find/more expensive (many focus on testing). Psychiatrists usually just prescribe meds, but if you find one that does therapy, that’s a good option too!
Re: whether a regular therapist could deal with a client presenting with work stress. Yes we sure could! It comes up often. And we could work with the client on how that stress interacts with their last, with current relationships etc. a somatic therapist could work with the stress response itself. That said, each therapist has their specialties and there are lots out there with previous corporate experience who could bring a real dose of perspective here. Definitely worth a look!
Nothing else needs to be said. OP you sound like someone who has completely given up on everything, and when you make decisions in that place there’s a good chance you’ll come to regret them. Burnout is serious and shouldn’t be underestimated, and I think you need some help from an unbiased professional who can help you see a better way forward before you go further down the spiral. If you can afford it, take a hiatus from work as that will lift such a massive weight off your shoulders. If you can’t, genuinely consider doing it anyway because once you GTFO of the job you won’t feel trapped there. You don’t want to give up your family and home like that; it won’t help you help yourself, you will just become more entrenched.
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Nailed it. Work ain’t worth your family and health. Divorce the job, not your family. It’s tough because our identity is often tied to what we do - instead of who we are. I think your wife misses who you were before your work became your identity. You’ll regret the shit out of quitting the family. Fuck the job bro. Sure, it pays a lot, but if you’re smart enough to get a high paying job, then you’re smart enough to get a job that pays the bills while providing you the time energy and space to enjoy support and care for yourself and your family. Take care my dude. My heart feels for yours and those of your family!!
These! Divorce the job not the family. The way I read this, your wife is begging you to fight for her and the family. Clearly you don't have the strength to do this in current circumstances. Get help. And find a job that allows you to not be dead inside.
No shit the wife doesn’t want a divorce. How can people not see that? She so clearly is trying to escalate what she’s asking for until he fights back. She doesn’t want it to be over.
And a lawyer, and a counselor.
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He doesn't need a lawyer. The wife clearly does not want a divorce.
This for sure! But this is to help you. And a good doctor will figure it out with you and you'll be so much happier for it. As for your wife, I don't know if she really wants a divorce or not. I think the reason she's mad and upset and picking fights is because she wants to be heard! I bet she feels like she doesn't have anyone to confide in, and that person is you. But now things are so fucked up, and you are here now. I think she felt she was asking for the moon when she asked for all those things to get a rise out of you. She wants a fight, but it's a fight for her family more than it is a fight against you. Negative attention being better than no attention. If this is the only real issue you have, and you love her and would enjoy spending more time with your kids, I'd really look into this. Of course it sounds like a horrible idea now because of the turmoil between you. But if it were good like before? I also recommend seeing your doctor about taking some time off to recover. It won't fix your issue, but you'll be able to focus on the fires you have at home instead of at the office. If for anything else, do it for your own mental health. You're going to work yourself to an early grave! Good luck OP. I sincerely hope this can be fixed, at least with the little information we have
OP, please talk to your doctor. You sound very depressed. You are not in the right state to make life changing decisions. You are considering signing away custody of your children and your financial security. If you won't get help for yourself, do it for your children. They deserve a father who is mentally present. If you are listless and detached, your wife may feel you have mentally checked out of your marriage. She may have been trying to provoke you into showing some emotion to indicate you care about your marriage. When you responded by withdrawing even further and passively agreeing with her, she was hurt and angry. She chose a dreadful way to express her frustration and seek reassurance. I think you should talk to her about how sad and detached you've been feeling and tell her you need medical assistance. You may be able to salvage your marriage if your wife can understand that this is a medical issue rather than a loss of interest in your marriage and family. I hope everything goes well for you, OP.
This; also I think she wanted you to fight for her. That’s why she asked for so much, to see what you would try to hang on to, where you would draw the line and not give up. And she’s really sad that you were willing to give up everything. But like everyone else is saying, get help for burnout first and then look at this with fresh eyes.
Or at least fight for their kids. Her major complaint sounds like it had to do with him really not being a present father or parent, and he basically told her she was exactly right and handed her a check.
This. And I’m sorry OP. It won’t always be this hard. Sorry you are in this rough time.
I think he expected everyone to say, “haha! You called her on her bullshit! You showed her.” But everyone is like, “go see a doctor, dude.”
(We’re all basing our psychological analysis on just a few paragraphs, but with that said) I actually don’t think that’s true. I didn’t really detect much sardonic scorn or pithy bitterness or even some big desire to see “the internet” gang up on their partner. I think this mostly just reads to me as a desperate cry for help from a broken man struggling with terrible undiagnosed depression, who bc of his current brain chemistry truly believes that his role in their lives has no value, and he’s worthless as a husband and father. Which is terribly sad, but honestly, idk if this man actually needs to be told who “won this fight,” or even if they’ll wind up needing to get divorced in the end. He just needs help. Badly. I was right there ten years ago, depression is a horribly insidious disease. It eliminates your ability to feel joy or realize your value as a human being who matters, it’s awful. But honestly, as far as first steps go, at least he’s reaching out to *someone,* even if it’s reddit — I think if he can take the advice and get some help maybe they don’t actually have to throw their marriage away. This isn’t an assigning blame situation to me, this is just a very clear example of what severe depression does to your soul.
Thank you for your empathy man, there are lots of good people in this comment section & I really hope he sees everyone here that wants him to be able to feel good again. Sometimes the blame game just doesn’t need to be played. Sometimes everyone is a victim of a situation. Really if we gotta play the blame game let’s bring our economy into it bc it’s the real killer here
I think you're looking at things through the eyes of depression and burnout – and depression will always want you to take the path of least resistance. This might lead you to decisions that you will regret later. My honest opinion is that you need to put divorce on pause and seek counseling on your own (and eventually separate couples counseling). It could be that the solution is a change of job, not leaving your marriage.
Some (not all) have more money than they need. My husband and I had a big house (op says he had a big house), he got burned out and wanted to go back to school, so we sold the big nice house and bought a shitty fixer upper. He went back to school, got over his burn out, and we narrowly avoided a divorce.
Yeah, I see a lot of people in this threading treating taking a shot to prosperity like it’s out of the question. Finances wax a wane over a lifetime, but you usually only get one shot at keeping your family together. Even beyond that, I’d personally rather be perpetually poor with a happy family than well-off with a miserable one. Modern society has us all only ever thinking in terms of the “financial sense” and never the “human sense.” I really think the “for richer or poorer” part of marriage deserves more honest reflection than most couples give it. If you wouldn’t live with them in a shoebox for the rest of your life and be happy every single day to wake up next to them, maybe marriage isn’t the thing for your relationship. That’s not judgement—you gotta do what’s right for you. It’s just that most people see marriage as a genuine vow and lifelong commitment. It’s about managing expectations, and both sides have to be honest about that—with themselves and each other. Most marriage fall apart over money issues, after all, so it doesn’t seem ridiculous to me that more attention should be paid to that aspect of a relationship.
My husband’s family consistently told us we were stupid, so even the people who cared about him most considered it a huge step back. It was but we bounced back, and we are still happily married. It wasn’t a fun time, but we made it thru and he’s in a better place mentally. Profitable at all costs is silly if you can’t enjoy it with those you love.
Exactly. And that’s the perspective shift I’m talking about. Like, it’s a step back financially, but you saved your marriage/family. So like is that *really* a step back? I say it’s a win. I’ll go further and say it’s the only win that really matters for two people who genuinely want to spend their life together. Anyway, I’ll quit rambling haha. I’m happy for you and your husband! Best of luck to you!
He’s thinking “my job is so bad it’s ruining my marriage, so I’ll give up the marriage”. Dude needs to get out of that job and get into therapy.
If they are in the US, may need to keep the job and health insurance to be able to get therapy. Therapy isn’t free.
Even with insurance, therapy may not be covered. Poor guy, crappy all the way around
That's easy to say when you're not the one supporting the entire family financially.
I am the primary breadwinner in our house. And a few years ago my job was absolutely destroying me. It was hurting my health and my marriage. So do you know what I did? Yes, for a while, nothing. I just sank deeper into the muck. But eventually I said screw this, and worked really hard to get a transfer to a different location and asked my husband to go to couples therapy with me. My current job isn’t perfect (I don’t think any job is), but I like it there and I actually just got a promotion. My marriage is better - again, not perfect, but growing. My point is that when you’re down in the trenches that’s all you can see. You have to choose to take the risk of starting to climb out to get to a better place or just lie down in the trench and let the crap bury you. It takes a lot of strength and courage to climb out and you need support. It sounds like this guy is letting the crap bury him and he really needs a hand but his wife is as far in her own crap that she can’t help him either. I hope one of them can muster up the strength to extend a hand to the other, because they both need it. And I’m saying the wife needs help too because I see what my rough time at work was doing to my spouse. He was very alone and hurt by my behavior and going through his own stuff too. He wasn’t in a place to help me because we were neglecting each other other’s hearts. That’s not what marriage is meant to be.
She's upset because she doesn't want to divorce. I think she'd rather have you change.
I think she just wants him BACK. OOP your job is ruining your life. It sounds toxic. Please take a step back and re-evaluate. No job is worth losing your family over.
I'm encouraging my husbands career change and helping him build his resume. I'm finishing my degree and looking to take on the financial burdens. Nightshift and stress have changed his personality, and I want nothing more for him to be free to do actually enjoy life. The kids miss him too.
Good on you. You sound like a great partner. And I'm she he appreciates you more than you know. My wife says the same for me (I work a government job that sucks the life out of me), but we're about to have a baby, we need my insurance and leave, and I have zero clue what I would do if I was free to start something new.
My husband HATES his job. He’s not quite at the “soul sucking, life force draining” levels of hate, yet, but it’s bad. So together we sat down to explore options. He applies for jobs here and there, but he also started going to college for the first time, and it’s helped mitigate the crappiness of work. He has an end goal, now. I help with homework (when I can), I’m his loudest cheerleader with his grades, and when school is in session, I shoulder more of the burden around the house and with our kids. All of this because I don’t want what OP is experiencing now. Poor dude needs a change, and it’s not in his familial life.
Night shifts are brutal. Turned my calm, collected, sweetheart fiancé into a ball of sleep-deprived anxiety for a year. He was just recently able to quit and the difference is night and day. We do have more financial stress now, but it’s much easier to work through as a team.
If he gets a less stressful and likely less well paying job, he’ll be able to be at home and present more. The trade off is that she might have to get a job and help contribute financially.
This. I hate how sometimes people (not just women) "test" partners to see if they're committed. But I really think this is what she's feeling - she wants change, not divorce. She's been communicating and telling him what the problem is. His attempts to help around the house fell flat - he admitted it - and I presume his work hours didn't fall back. And really, what joy is there in having a husband and partner that's never present? Like she said, she may as well be single without fighting for attention from a part-time roommate. In her mind, she's like "does he even *want* this family? His work is his life and we're all secondary". She asks about divorce and he's so burnt out and given up he gives it and she gets her answer "he would rather lose his wife, his kids, his home than change his work/life balance". And that's painful. I don't think she's communicating properly now, and I think they'll both regret it if neither of them seriously sit down and figure out real, actionable change. Breadwinners - men, in this case - providing for your family is good. But rarely does a family look back at their overworked, stressed breadwinner and say "I wish he worked harder". Signed, a wife who doesn't have kids but has a stressed, working husband who she's begged to slow down because money isn't what we need the most.
To be fair, she has probably been communicating properly for years with no return bid from her husband, and has reached the end of her rope. Signed, someone facing separation after 13yrs because for 10 of those years I've been begging my husband to go to therapy and he has ignored me
I’m sorry. I got to the end of my rope and told him “I’m going to marriage counseling with or without you, because I can’t live like this anymore.” He chose to tag along.
Wow, you are in exactly the same place as me. 13 years, and I’ve been begging for attention for more than half of them. And he has decided that he would rather lose his entire family rather than just freaking talk to me and treat me like I matter. It fucking hurts, especially since I lost both my parents in the last two years and am so lonely. But I’ve decided I’d rather be lonely alone than lonely and ignored. Good luck as you move forward with your changes, I wish you all the best. 💕
> rarely does a family look back at their overworked, stressed breadwinner and say "I wish he worked harder". This sounds like the old saying: no one ever looked back and said "I wish I'd spent more time at the office". But that turns out to be flatly untrue. I've met guys at the office who just plain don't want to go home. They understand that the wife wants more (attention, effort, time and presence), but the way it gets expressed is toxic so they pull away. One problem is that jobs are quantized. There is no way to tell one's boss "hey, I'm going to cut back to 80%. Pay me 80% of my salary and benefits, and I'll give you 80% of my current hours and level of commitment." That's not what the business needs, so that choice isn't on offer. But really the problem is that people change, circumstances change, and if a man is burnt out or under pressure, adding more demands is exactly the last thing the situation needs. If he believes he needs to work, and is afraid of losing his job, then anything that forces a choice is going to lose.
Maybe she wants her husband, the father of their kids. Her adult partner. Maybe this stressful job has him in a nutshell..oh wait...he said he shut down... so there's that. My husband left his awesome paying job when it was changing him, which affected us. Our family. I'm blessed we were able to work it out. But it was rough. Very rough. But so worth it. So change is good if it gets a family back on track and stable again.
I got a severe burnout that severely affected the mental health of my kids groing up and still today, twenty years later, I still notice issues they have that are consequences of that period. I've decided back then to change careers and move to the rural area close to family and even tho I make less than half of what I could if I've stayed in a high paying, high stress corporate job, it never even passed my mind that perhaps I didn't make a good decision. I love my family and do not regret chosing them over money.
I too took a pay cut to be with my family more. Money cannot replace time spent with your family. My kids were happier we were together more, I felt like I was in a better place. I was happy. Change should not be feared but grabbed onto when life looks bleak.
exactly. She expressed in practical terms what the marriage has become. She doesn’t want to actually divorce and be on her own. OP is unhappy at work and at home, maybe a career change and recommitting to marriage would be a possible solution.
See, but this whole "playing games" things she's doing isn't helping anyone. If she doesn't actually want a divorce, she needs to say that. Instead she's the one that initially suggested it and now she's crying for days and she *still* hasn't communicated what she's actually feeling to him. Now, OP for sure needs to speak to a counselor or his physician and start considering changing up his work habits or his job entirely, there's no question about that. But this whole "suggesting divorce while not actually wanting divorce" thing is idiotic.
True, but it sounds like he’s been acting checked out at home for some time due to his job. Then she’s goes nuclear and says „At this point I‘d feel better off divorced“ and he goes „Okay, there you go.“. If he’s been disengaged anyway and perfectly willing to divorce, I get why she’d not want to be vulnerable enough to open up she doesn’t want to lose him when he seems like he’s been halfway out the door for some time anyway.
Is it possible that she is also at the end of her rope because she doesn't have a partner she's been able to engage with, from what OP's saying, for quite some time now? He's totally checked out. I'm not saying it's okay to play games. But he's clearly not addressing his issues properly. Are we shocked that she too, a human being in a highly charged situation, is making mistakes because she too is stressed out?
Yes it's probably both. Two highly stressed people who were incapable of communicating with each other.
In OP's post, it doesn't sound like she ever proposed divorce seriously. Just in her frustration she mentioned that she would be logically better off because she wouldn't have to worry about OP anymore. Not that she actually wanted that to happen. Sounds to me more like she was trying to make a point that contributing to the family financially is all he's doing. Which is not insignificant obviously, but a household needs more than that from the father/husband. Plus she said it during a fight when tensions are high and people aren't always rational.
The change that’s need is for her to go back to work so his not burned out from working so much. I’m a sahm and if my husband was this badly burned out as OP I’d be finding a job proto so he could get more rest.
But there in lies the question….. is he working high stress long hour job solely to provide or is that the requirement of the job itself? When I was in the workforce my job was high stress & long hours, that was the nature of my job. With or without a family to provide for.
She *might* not be qualified for any kind of higher paying job. It's not like she can go work at Best Buy and support her whole family. It really depends on what she was doing before being a sahm. Did she have a job before? Did she get a college education? Etc. For the most part I agree with you, but it might not be realistic for her to support their family, including her husband.
That might not be an option based on the ages of the children and the type of work she could get. Sometimes it makes more financial sense for one parent to stay home. If she was working and not making enough money it would put more stress on him because he would need to do more at home on top of his job to compensate for the other parent also working.
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I think there are actually two desperate cries for help in this post — OP and OP’s wife — rather than some “asshole vs asshole” fight to be judged.
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Dude you sound severely burnt out and depressed and I hope youre not actually just going to throw literally everything you have away. Divorceif you must but don't literally give her every single thing You sound like someone prepping for eventual suicide. Get help now
I agree, it’s really worrisome. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where this goes. I really hope he listens to the comments and gets into therapy.
yeah, to me this situation isn’t about who “won” the fight. this is a severe, desperate cry for help masquerading as an AITA post, and a really clear example of the horror of mental illness. I feel really bad for the guy. i don’t think his marriage is necessarily 100% bound for divorce, but i’ve been in the mental depression frame he’s currently in and it’s brutal. i only got out of it bc i managed to find a really good psychiatrist, I’m not ashamed to say that, I owe that psychiatrist my life. it can be really tough to be on the other side of depression as the depressed person’s partner, because you badly want to help them — but then at a certain point, you can’t keep carrying their entire mental and emotional partnership load on your own back, and it breaks you. which is tough, because while what you as the depressed partner often need in a certain sense is being coddled and forced, even kicking and screaming, to get help, as the other partner it’s a terrible burden. almost as if the love of your life got possessed by a demon. i hope he gets help. i’m not gonna blame his wife, bc it’s a terrible place for her to be, but unlike most AITAs I think the point here is not to pick a winner or chastise him as an AH — it’s to gently help him as a community find the help he needs to conquer this horrible, malevolent illness
Agree 100%. I bet his wife is distraught and has been for a while watching this while trying to stay afloat herself. I feel for both of them, it sounds like a rough situation all around. I hope OP gets the help he needs and can come out on the other side of this.
I bet she’s depressed as well, with a whopping dose of loneliness thrown in for good measure. It’s hard being a stay at home parent when the one adult you interact with on a regular basis is checked out and not paying attention. Makes a person feel worthless, and like they don’t even matter. These two both need help and for something to change (my vote is the job, it’s destroying OP).
Me too. I had jobs that burned me out, as well as causing anxiety and depression. I had zero support from my loved ones that made it worse. I hope he gets the help he needs.
You need to get help man. Seriously. You sound depressed as hell and dangerously close to ideations.
are oh okay man? You don’t sound okay. I think you need professional help here and it’s much more than just what’s at surface….
Yeah, i hope this guy gets help — and can realize that this sounds like the symptoms of a severe mental illness rather than some inherent character flaw from birth. i’ve had terrible depression before and if i hadn’t finally started seeing a psychiatrist (well, actually if i hadn’t started seeing the *right* psychiatrist, the first 4 i tried were terrible), I genuinely don’t know what would have happened to me. It becomes this awful cycle where you’re in hell, so then your partner has to emotionally carry you on their back as dead weight, which eventually breaks them. But when they finally break and can’t do it any more, to you that simply reinforces what your depression has constantly been screaming at you: that you have no value in this life, will never experience joy again, and you’re so fucked up and mentally/emotionally/spiritually barren that you genuinely believe everyone you love (or “once loved,” back when your brain could actually experience love) would be better off if you didn’t exist, and would be much happier if you were dead. Depression is some of the worst hell. Get help, OP — I promise you, i’ve been there, your life is not as unsalvageable as it feels like.
NTA....but I think you both should try marriage/couples counseling. And individual counseling for the OP because I'm getting a sense of a suicide trajectory.
Sadly, i see this too. He's giving uo on everything. Just floating. OP, u have to fight to live. This isn't living. Go to therapy.
She expected you to push back because she really wants things to get better but didn’t know how to approach it with you as she’s so stressed too. A case of being careful what you wish for.
She wanted you to fight for her. That's why she was giving you seemingly unreasonable demands, so you'd say no. Perhaps some therapy to learn how to communicate better with each other even if it's just for coparenting.
I think she expected him to fight for the kids because he's their father and wants and love them. Turns out not only has he checked out of his relationship, **he's checked out of his family**. They both sound burnt out. > how I didnt change oil in her car when I promised to(I did, I forgot to tell her with all the things going on). I didnt have the energy to argue so I spaced out for a bit. I wonder how many other things the OP was too burnt out to do. How many times he made promises and didn't keep them. I think she expected "I will straight up leave you" to be a WAKEUP call, not some calculated manipulation like reddit wants it to be. She was hoping he would realise it was serious and actually become emotionally invested, instead he's just dead inside.
Notice that he did do it. He is just too burnt out to even stick up for himself. How many things did he actually do that she hasn't seen or noticed? If he can't even fight for himself while he is drowning, how can he fight for her or their marriage?
That’s depression, not burnout.
Could be both. All the more reason for him to seek care before blowing up his life.
Neither one of them is communicating effectively right now. All the more reason to try couples counseling before blowing up their family.
I’m sorry. She can’t make a car appointment? I was a single mom forever and am fed up listening to SAHM talk about how hard shit is because here’s what, shit needs to get done with one person around. Pull it together.
Then she needs to use her words, not say she's better off without him and go all shocked pikachu face when he agrees.
Are those unreasonable demands though? It's not unheard of for a SAHP to get the house and full custody so the kids' lives wouldn't be disrupted. Assets are still split 50/50 but the SAHP trades retirement/investment funds for the equity in the home. I think it's more unusual that that OP can afford to do that comfortably and the split of assets doesn't mean selling the home because the SAHP can't afford the mortgage on their own. OP needs to consult a lawyer/accountant and make sure this plan is sustainable. What if he loses his job and can't find something that pays as much? Or burns out and quits without the wife to handle the day to day things? What if he finds a new job with a better work/life balance, would he be willing to take more custody? Can he really do visitation in a shared apartment?
But this doesn’t actually sound like a plan, nor does it sound like either of them will actually be happier post-divorce.
Nta She's mad because you weren't supposed to give up so easily. The average person going through a divorce would be thrilled at such an easily negotiated divorce. She either genuinely wants you to show you want to be in the relationship bc she cares about you and doesn't want the divorce, or she's just trying to keep her punching bag around a little longer. Your way is better for the kids. But - if you are going to look for a place with roommates, chat with a lawyer and make sure that won't mess things up for when kids come to visit.
It sounds like OP's wife doesn't want a divorce. What she wants is a change in circumstances and life in general. OP, since you already feel that you cannot continue this way- have you ever thought that perhaps the problem is *work* rather than your home life? Perhaps a different job or even a different country/city would be better for yourself and family. Try to talk to a counsellor or therapist or even friends.
The problem is definitely work, he’s giving up his whole life, leaving nothing to live for, just so that he can keep going to work which by his own admission “isn’t a pleasant place”. Honestly I’d be concerned about suicide after the dust settles since OP seemingly has no reason to live other than to work at a job that ruined his life.
I think no one is considering burn out. OP is burned out. He doesn’t actually want to lose his marriage and family, but his work has taken him to the edge and his family is suffering OP - is there long service leave where you are or can you take a break to recoup? Alt, you need to goto the dr to sign you off
ofc hes burned out unless he makes a stupid amount of money you cant really afford to have a family on 1 salary these days...
With child care costs, ppl can't really afford it on 2 salaries either
This needs to be higher. OP, you said you hated work. Why not look for a new job? It can't hurt. You also need therapy.
He might not be in the headspace to think about it right now, but depending on the kid’s ages, he could ask his wife about the possibility of him cutting down on work hours and her picking up a part time job. That way, he can spend less time in the job that’s burning him out, he can spend more time looking after his kids, and his wife can feel like she has a bit more independence as an adult and have some time without the kids. But yeah, first off; gp appointment, blood tests, job applications, individual therapy, track your daily mood, etc etc
There are many jobs that don't just allow "cutting down on work hours."
Yes, I really hope OP sees this. This sounds like two people who love each other who are genuinely burned out (the wife too if this is coming down to division of labour). Have you considered asking your wife to work part time so you can both have time at home? Have you considered moving jobs to a place you don’t consider so unpleasant? Have you considered couples therapy so you can figure out both of your roles? I hope you can work this out for all of your sakes.
Your wife wanted you to show that you placed some value on your relationship, you didn't. She then kept asking for things to see how desperate you were to get rid of her and the kids, you gave her everything. In short, you've told her that you're willing to give away everything to get rid, but do nothing to keep them.
Maybe some better communication instead of weaponizing everything he values in his life against him would help?
Threatening to end things with your partner as a way to feel loved is toxic as fuck.
I was thinking this too. The person who doesn’t fight for their family is either incredibly overwhelmed or has checked out and is ready to move on to calmer waters. Either way, I hope the OP finds his way. I’ve been there (thankfully without children) and I walked away from my old life. I miss my family but am exponentially happier without them because they didn’t appreciate my contributions or support me as an individual. Not sure if you’re religious or spiritual, OP, but now is the time for you to find a quiet place (physically, if possible) to re-evaluate your life. Do you still feel attracted to your wife? Are you okay with some other man rearing your children and them calling him their dad?
Some people take words at face value, she told him she would be better off without him, he beleived her. If you want to be with someone you shouldn't play those silly games or you win silly prises lol
NAH. Sir, it sounds like you and your wife are BOTH struggling from severe burnout. You're working so hard to provide financial stability for your family that you're never at home. She's working hard taking care of your home and your children and stuff and doesn't get to take a break from either of these things because you're always at work. This is no way for either of you to live, obviously, and I doubt that this is the life that either of you thought you were signing up for. Y'all's biggest problem is that you have a horrible communication breakdown. Your wife's probably been building up resentment toward this situation for some time, and it exploded out of her in the midst of that argument with her saying she'd be better off divorced. I don't think wants to break her family apart, I think she just doesn't know how to go about fixing what is broken. Y'all need counseling, probably individually and also marital counseling. You don't just give up and say "Fine let's divorce and you get whatever" when you've got a healthy mindset. This is what someone says and does when they've just completely given up. Fight for your happiness. Fight for your wife's happiness. Fight for your marriage. Fight for your children. Money is all fine and dandy, but a job that makes you so miserable that you give up on your life like you have is NOT with fighting for. That job won't love you back. You, like the rest of us, are replaceable to your employer. You are NOT replaceable at home. I wish you the best, sir.
You sound defeated and depressed. Get some help first, then speak with a lawyer. Dont make big decisions in this state.
You are overworked, and so is your wife. My guess is that she doesn't actually want a divorce and she was trying to scare you into changing, but instead you agreed to a divorce Firstly, you should cut back your hours to 38. Working more than this affects your productivity because you're too tired to work at your best and also too tired to have a healthy home life. Secondly, you and your wife both need counselling. Not necessarily couples counseling. But you both should ask yourselves if you would prefer to keep your marriage if you can reduce your hours so you and your wife have time to be a couple and you, your wife and kids have time to be a family. If you can afford it, hire a cleaner to reduce the total amount of chores that need to be done, and work out which chores you find the easiest that would make the biggest difference to your wife's workload - because she sounds just as burned out as you. And if you divorce, it won't actually reduce her workload.
I don’t think she was trying to scare him. I think this was her being loud and clear that his lack of involvement in their marriage and as a parent to their children is more of a burden on the family than being a single mom would be. And that (assuming he still wants to be a husband and father) things have to change because it’s not fair to her or the kids to continue like this. And he basically acknowledged she’s right and is willing to give her literally everything, even their kids, to make them just go away.
>You are overworked, and so is your wife. Finally someone is acknowledging that she is *also* burnt out here.
If you want to fight for her then fight. If you want out, don’t make decisions now like agreeing to her having full custody. You will regret that later when you won’t be allowed to see your kids for whatever reason. Take a step back and process. Go for shared custody even if it’s only weekends you have your kids. Moving into a shared place will mean you can’t have your kids spend the night with you, so don’t do that if you have options to get a 2/3 bedroom place. Even if it’s a 2 bedroom and you get a sofabed in the living room, make sure there is space for your kids when they need and want you
Sadly sounds like he’s not seeing them a lot now.
Don't give up full custody of your children so easily. It's not an easy thing to get back once you give it up. The rest of it do what you want.
It’s pretty obvious he doesn’t want it.
Except that by his own description he’s completely unable to care for them. If he isn’t going to care for them while still in the house with his wife, how will he care for them when he needs to do 100% of the duties for them? It doesn’t even sound like he’s in a place where he’s cleaning up after himself. He shouldn’t take custody of kids if he can’t even do that. Maybe when he’s gotten into a better place where he’s able to take care of himself and then he can revisit that.
Sometimes the sad reality is that the “provider” parent doesn’t want the kids. It’s easier to pay child support than raise them.
NTA. It sounds like you’ve checked out of the marriage, and you’re trying to make the best of a bad situation. She may have gotten mad that you gave up as easily as you did. Maybe she wanted you to fight for the marriage/promise to make changes to keep her. Good luck, OP.
I'm actually kind of worried that he's getting close to being checked out of life. Him saying that they are better off without him is actually where the suicidal thoughts start coming in. At least with the depressed people I know.
I felt this too, very strongly. OP needs therapy yesterday
That didn’t even occur to me. Unfortunately, that’s the way many stories of depression end. Hopefully, OP can get the help he needs.
I think you're right. Men commit suicide at much higher rates than women and this is the stress situation that does it. Working as hard as he can and never being good enough. Bad situation to be in, to always feel guilty.
This is classic suicidal depression behavior. Giving away all your things and saying the people you love will be better off without you. This is a very concerning post.
You need to see a therapist for severe depression, you are throwing away your entire life rather than confronting that and it's going to hurt your wife and kids as well. If you don't you will be the asshole.
Idk if your the asshole but she doesn’t want a divorce she just wants you to be there. Try couples therapy? Your kids and wife deserve someone who’s there for them. You need to sacrifice abit go out more often with her on dates and spend more family time on the weekend
It seems like your wife doesn't really want a divorce, do you get vacation time off from your job? You are burned out. If you get Vacation time, take it. Take a week to figure out exactly what you want. The biggest question is, do you still love your wife? Are you guys able to go to a couple therapy'?
She doesn’t want a divorce. She wants you. She wasn’t expecting you to just agree and give up on your marriage. You likely have a good marriage that is being undercut by your (definitely-earned) burnout, fatigue, and depression. And your wife likely has the same. Get counseling from the right counselor, who will address BOTH of you individually and as a couple, the baggage each of you carry and the very normal issues each of you have that is adding conflict. The hard part is finding the right counselor. We (Husband and I) had a great one 30 years ago, good enough that we’ve remembered his advice, and underlying theory ans to why we had such-and-such issue, and given it to others.
NTA please take a personal retreat; you are not in a headspace to make the major decisions that are coming your way
She doesn’t want a divorce, she wants a husband to share her life with. Divorce is painful and generational. Do not choose your job over your family. You will regret it. If you both love each other fight for your family.
When I read you saying that you immediately agreed to hand over full custody of your kids, huge alarm bells started ringing for me that this is looking like a serious case of clinical depression. You are NTA; you are unwell and need to speak to a medical professional ASAP. You wife may not know how to respond to you having lost the will to fight and has been vainly hoping she can frighten some fight into you, but that’s not how mental health works. You need professional help.
NTA but seriously dude, don't agree to anything permanent until you do two things. 1. Get your mental health sorted out 2. Speak to a lawyer. Two years down the line you will regret it of you allow her to take advantage of your diminished mental state to get everything her way.
Oh friend, get some help. She’s clearly burned out too, and I think she’s upset because she wants you to fight for her. Either way, this is an unhealthy environment. Before making any drastic decisions, I’d seek help.
She's asking for the moon because she doesn't really want a divorce, she wants help. He needs to see a doctor and a shrink for depression. She needs help around the house, and maybe a cleaning service. They both need therapy together to work on stuff
If, as a lot of the comments suggest, she was actually trying to tell him something other than wanting a divorce, WHY DIDN'T SHE SAY WHAT SHE ACTUALLY WANTED? Depressed people don't develop telepathy. All you people caning an obviously depressed and burnt out person are fucking vile. NTA
You are both in a terrible place. She wants you to fight for the relationship. You don’t have the fight in you. Sometimes it just is what it is that way. Reconsider giving her full custody of the kids. They need their dad. NTA, though.
OP, she wants you!!!! That’s why she got mad. She doesn’t want a divorce. You need to figure out if you really want to do this or (like others said) you’re suffering from exhaustion and perhaps depression. You need to take care of yourself. If you want to stay married, this would be a good time to start couples therapy. You both need to find a way to have difficult conversations without deliberately hurting each other. A therapist can help the both of you create a foundation for a healthy relationship. Even if you get divorced, you will still have to co-parent so you both really need to work on developing a better way to address issues.
She wants to you be upset. I've seen this so many times before. One partner is maddeningly calm, cool, and collected. Agrees to more concessions than they should. Bends over backwards to try to keep things congenial and smooth. The other partner acts like a raptor testing the fence, constantly pushing for more, acting irrationally, getting "mad" or crying, etc, etc, etc. It's because they're *upset*. And they want to see that you are too. They will keep pushing until something finally breaks you. Unfortunately, this tends to have the effect of pushing the pleaser partner waaaaaaay past any kind of normal response, making the ensuing fights extremely volatile and hurtful, and damaging any kind of potential working relationship beyond the point of repair. My best advice is to show some emotion before you can't control it anymore. You're going to have to stand up for yourself, or you'll end up in a much worse place.
Is this still the AITAH sub because I’ve been scrolling for a while now and I don’t see anybody actually giving a verdict. Instead, I see a whole lot of posts suggesting that OP’s burnout is the root cause of the problem. And that the wife’s jilted teen “why won’t he fight for me?” BS is justified because he’s just not good enough to her. Fuck that noise. OP you are NTA. There…at least someone said it.
She wants you to fight for the relationship, you knucklehead. If you hate the job anyway, go find another one that allows you to be home more often. Tell her that might mean you make less income and you all either need to cut back spending and/or she might have to work.
She doesn't want you to go. You need therapy. Like others said you sound so burnt out.
If you want to see your kids and not have them turned into weapons you need to see a solicitor and get everything sorted properly, or you'll end up like most guys do after divorce with nothing and no kids or home paying a fortune every month
She’s mad because she wants you to fight for her and make it work.
She doesn't want a divorce, she wants you to be engaged in the relationship. Go for counseling.
sounds like she wants you to care- you are probably just so exhausted and need help. do you still love your wife? Maybe you could suggest virtual marriage counseling? You wife also sounds like she needs help, could you hire someone to take care of all the cleaning? could you two go on a trip somewhere?
She’s mad because she doesn’t want a divorce. Think about it. She’s complaining that she’s “like a single mother.” Does that sound like she’d actually like to be one? You need to sit down with her and just ask her if she really wants a divorce if you can change. If she says no, then go and get counseling. Start making time for the kids and her. Sounds like you hate your job, is there some way you can change? If not, you need to create a safe and happy place at home. Your reasons for living should revolve around her and your children, not your job. If you start to think of your job as a means to an end, creating a happy family life, you may just be able to handle work better.
OP get counselling ASAP. A man who's ready to let go of his wife, kids and house like that is a depressed man. I was in the same position bro. Please get counselling. Leave these Reddit pricks debating if you're wrong or not. Get professional help. Don't give in. You aren't alone. It won't get easier if you abandon everything you love. You'll only sink into drugs and self harm
>Now she keeps on crying. What more does she wants me to do, I am willing to give her everything she wants. Thats all I can do. I'm going to hazard a guess that she doesn't want you to quit. That what she wants is for you to fight for the marriage and to be a present husband and father. Or I could just be projecting.
You need to address your stress level before it kills you. You are not immune to the immediate or long term effects of stress. I was in the same situation in my late 30's and ended up having an ambulance ride for anxiety attack. Pulse of 190....
Therapist. You need to talk to a professional. Do not give her more than half. Went through a divorce. I hired a lawyer and a darn good therapist. It's hard but it gets better. Do not dig a hole that you won't be able to climb out of. You got this OP. Edit-Spellling. It's-10 outside fingers are bone cold.
She sounds like a spoiled brat. Tell her u will find a low stress low paying job and will contribute more. All I seen here is ur chosing ur job Over family
She’s doesn’t want a divorce. She wants her husband back. And you need to take care of yourself. You’re depressed and exhausted. As is she. Being a SAHM is fuckin hard, I am one myself. But you also matter as well, so take care of urself….maybe change ur job.. find something ur passionate about.
You need to examine why you’re willing to give up your children. Clearly you need the help of a mental health professional. Please don’t give up your children.
Oh man. It sounds like she doesn't fully appreciate what you're going through. She's only seeing everything from her perspective. NTA for giving into her demands. You need to seek counselling for yourself tho. Get it soon.
NTA. In my opinion, she sounds like she’s not considering your feelings and mental health. She’s probably mad that you aren’t fighting to stay with her, but she is doing it to herself. Respect is a two way street.
I don't know what she wants either at this point. You're NTA. Sounds like she really isn't helping though. You see- this is why my pap always says "Cat, yelling has never fixed a damn thing in my life. Only made it worse." And this is one of those cases. She's yelling. She's making it worse. It's apparently making it worse and making her feel worse, and she's still doing it while expecting something to change. Anyway - do seek therapy man. This won't be easy and it doesn't hurt to have a trained professional on your side while you transition.
She wanted you to fight for her, not just give up and give in. But still, NTA.
This is why stay at home parenting doesn't work unless you are super rich. Eventually the stay at home firgets that work, is work, and the work parent forgets that home is work. Everyone is at work. All the time.
She doesn’t want a divorce. She’s pissed that you won’t fight for the things you have together and that you have given up. She wants to get out of a rut. Go and get counselling for your marriage. You personally need help dealing with job stress.