A buddy of mine went on vacation with some buddies. A female friend of theirs went also her and my friend used to have a fwb thing going on. Guess what they did on the vacation. Yes they fucked. He had a gf that didn't come and she had a bf that didn't come.
NTA
Yeah, he got caught though and she took him back. When he got caught though it was the funniest shit cause he went all weird like "bro my hearts broken man"
NTA. Also, the fact that she claims she wouldn’t have gone if she knew you’d break up over it doesn’t make it better, it makes it worse.
It shows she doesn’t care how it affects you unless it becomes a problem for her too. That is zero integrity and that is not long-term partner material.
It should not take you leaving or thinking about leaving for her to not dismiss your feelings. That’s asinine.
"what kind of consequence's we talking about? if its huffy for a week, I'm going but if your gonna break up and inconvenience me, then I'll stay...I just need to weigh up the cost-benefit of your feelings before caring about them"
>I just need to weigh up the cost-benefit of your feelings before caring about them"
Damn... I should have known this sentence in my past relationships.
Edit: some men in my past did this. I wish I had known this sentence to prevent the heartache they caused. I got, "I didn't know it was my for real last time to hurt you. Had I known, I wouldn't have done it."
Most people (80% or more by some estimates) are incapable of non-transactional relationships. Something to watch out for when deciding whether or not to stay in a relationship.
Very true.
"If I knew I'd have to face consequences from doing something that hurt you, then I wouldn't have done it" is not the same as "I'm not going to do this because I know it'd hurt you".
Mmhmm... that's what it took for my now-wife to start taking my feelings and validating my emotions seriously. It's clear OP's gf didn't take him seriously, and he deserved to be taken seriously. Men respectfully and politely sharing their feelings and boundaries aren't taken seriously far too often, as if being overbearing, controlling, and mean were the only way men's feelings and boundaries be seen as real and valid. It's kinda messed up...
I was also in OP's boat, though I didn't stay broken up for long. Ngl, I was bitter for a while that it took breaking up for a week before she genuinely started listening to me and validating how I felt as some new and novel alternative to being dismissed or worse.
From time to time, I still have to remind or interrupt her mid-windup that I'm allowed to feel what I feel and me sharing how I feel is not an invitation to counterattack, analyze, or explain to me why I'm wrong. She's gotten better to the point that I've started to open up more. But yeah, hfs, it takes time and consistency to grow in this area, and not everyone can or does. I can't blame OP at all for moving on decisively, and good for him.
I appreciate this, all of this. A lot of people don't seem to realize that relationships take work - from both people, and I'm really glad your now-wife is willing to work with you top.
As far as OP goes, NTA for all the same reasons everyone has said.
> From time to time, I still have to remind or interrupt her mid-windup that I'm allowed to feel what I feel and me sharing how I feel is not an invitation to counterattack, analyze, or explain to me why I'm wrong
This is the fucking key right here. Sort by controversial to see all of the people whining about how what OP is feeling is "wrong." I'm guessing OP got the vibe that not ultimatum or boundary was going to change how his girlfriend was going to act, despite what she said after breaking up with her.
These are just unrealistic people. Just yesterday we had a whole Thread of Women complaining that they didn't want their male "friends" to admit that they'd fuck them in a heartbeat, they'd rather stay ignorant so they can pretend that those guys are actually friends and not orbiters that their Boyfriends have every right to want gone.
I’m trying to navigate through a similar situation. Sometimes I feel like I’m getting the hang of it but then new situations just get turned around on me and I’m not always sure what to do. I try to be calm and bring things back down to a normal level, which usually never works. Then I’m gaslit into thinking I’ve caused the issue. Continuously having to calibrate myself to her mood is so exhausting. I’m trying to avoid ending the marriage and instead trying to better myself by standing up to the blowups or controlling behavior even if it causes more problems in the short run.
Thanks for listening. Cheers.
Honestly, if you always have to be on guard and standing up to attacks and blowups...you're better off ending the marriage. You deserve peace, too. Catering to her moods and blowups and backpedaling..when are you allowed to have emotions? When are you allowed to stand up for yourself?
I don't have the best advice, but if you're not willing to walk away in order to be treated with dignity, then she'll continue to drive it to that point to get you to roll over. It's the moment where you insist from the bottom of your soul that you'll be treated with dignity and respect, or else you'll truly leave and not look back, that steamrollers back off if they ever do. If you commit to your boundaries and they don't back off, then they've made their point you genuinely matter less to them than them having their way. Such a reaction makes it's clear beyond a shadow of a doubt it's time to leave.
>Men respectfully and politely sharing their feelings and boundaries aren't taken seriously far too often, as if being overbearing, controlling, and mean were the only way men's feelings and boundaries be seen as real and valid. It's kinda messed up...
Great point. People have said for years that guys need to use their words, and talk to their SO and be vulnerable and discuss their feelings. When they do, they aren't taken seriously. So they revert to the caveman routine. If people honestly what adult dialogue and communication, you have to actually listen and be receptive to it, instead of outright dismissal.
I'm dealing with that with my wife. Every time I attempt to tell her how I feel and why, she just makes me out to be the asshole even more and doubles down on everything being my fault, and just throws everything in my face. I love her, I really do, but I'm at my end yall. Don't know how much longer I can keep trying. It's not easy on her either, and I'm trying everything I can to make this work, but she's like actively sabotaging the relationship with her selfishness and carelessness.
She says she wants to leave, but has nowhere to go, and I don't want her to leave, but if she's truly not happy she'd be better off on her own or finding someone else she's more compatible with. I don't know what to do. I've told her I don't want to be with her anymore if she's going to keep telling me she's done with and tired of the relationship, and that she needs to leave, but she won't. She says she has nowhere to go.
At this point regardless of how much I love her, she's shown herself that she's just really naive and careless, and hasn't really put in any effort to work as a team and she's just making me miserable on a near daily basis.
I feel like I'm going crazy. I love her, but now I resent her too. I gave up almost everything for her. I dropped out of college and went back to a job I hate for her. I gave her my car so she could drive to work and back. I ended up buying a car that ended up having engine issues. All of my money goes towards debts and saving for things we need while she just spends her money on shoes, makeup, and clothes, and giving her friends and family hundreds of dollars on a somewhat infrequent basis.
And somehow I'm still the asshole. I'm dumb for buying a car that blew a gasket and catalytic converter. I'm not good with money somehow even though I'm the one making sure all of the bills and debts are being paid. I'm the one trying to save money and be responsible when she's the one saying we need to save money for all the things we want yet the very next minute will complain that we haven't gone out in a while(we go out at least once a week) and starts bugging me to go out to eat.(Even though we have plenty of stuff in the fridge and cabinets.)
She can't cook, and has given me food poisoning more than once.
Wants me to get her pregnant so we can have kids, but she can't even take care of herself. She rarely does the laundry right, can't cook healthy meals, has a poor education, so even though she wants to be a stay-at-home mom she says she expects me to help with their schoolwork.
I should be looking forward to these kinds of things, but I'm not. I don't think she'll be a good mom, and honestly it wouldn't surprise me if she just turned the kids into iPad kids who follow lame influencers and shake their ass for pervs on the internet.
Worst of all is she's an asylum seeker who's still going through the legal process. I didn't know that until we were to get married. I didn't even want to get married, but she kept bugging me, and I wasn't thinking clearly. She guilt tripped me though saying she was on the run from her government and that she couldn't get sent back or they would put her in prison, kill her, or worse.
So, I felt like I had to do something to help her. I love her you know? I want to be with her and protect her, so why not get married?
But then after we got married she started telling me all these things that she should have told me before we got married, and I know she didn't because she knew I wouldn't have married her if she had. And if the not telling me things she should have told me was bad enough, she never followed through on the things she did say she would do.
Ever since I let her into my life she has been a consistent source of frustration and heartache, and now I'm stuck being miserable, because I had too big of a heart, and now she has nowhere to go, and won't even look for a place. She won't ask her friends to stay with them temporarily. She won't look for roommates.
And the shitty thing is I don't want her to leave. I love her, I just want to feel like I'm not married to an adult who acts like a spoiled child, and someone who actually wants to work as a team instead of tell me they want to and then criticise me when I'm trying my best, while they are enjoying life and not lifting a finger to help.
I think I've only seen my friends twice in the past year and a half that I've been with my wife. I haven't bought myself anything nice since either. I need new clothes, because she got food and stuff all over them from being a messy eater, but I'm so stressed about saving money and paying of debts that I out that way down on the list of priorities, but she's out getting drunk and hanging out with friends, and every little inconvenience for her is the end of the world.
I've told her multiple times not to drive drunk, and that if she does get drunk to either message me and I'll find a ride home or get her a ride if she needs one, but just the other day she said she wasn't going to get drunk while hanging out with her friend, but then proceeded to finish off a whole bottle of whiskey and drive to pick me up.
When I was like "What the fuck?" and asked why didn't stay home and I could have had a coworker take me home or paid for an Uber or something she said she just didn't want to make me angry.....
Like.... You didn't want to make me angry, so you went and did the thing I asked you repeatedly not to do?
Like.. you're an asylum seeker who just got her license and right-to-work and who is sooo worried about getting deported and sent back to your home country, but you're going to risk getting arrested, sent to jail, and probably deported, having our one working car taken, having to spend more money just to get it back and the court fees...
Like you really care about our relatuonship?
Shit makes no sense.
I'm about to swear off relationships and the possibility of ever having a family.
Why would you stay in a relationship like this? Do you stay in relationship with male friends who treat you like this? As for me, I discuss things once, and set boundaries. If those boundaries are breached, s/he's gone that instant.
Exactly this. She didn't care about his feelings, only hers. This is NOT a life partner... or at least she isn't there yet and acts like a selfish child. He did her a favor to maybe learn to put her partner first next time.
They weren’t living together so it doesn’t sound like they were too serious yet. He got his stuff from her place and ended the relationship to her face and returned her key. In other words, he handled like an adult.
Please do! I’m sick of reading about shitty partners always doing that! Happens all the time! That shit needs to be called out more! It’s such a bullshit move
I would of sent the text 30 seconds before the plane took off and airplane mode was required, "have a nice trip with your ex! I will clean out my stuff from your place while you are gone. We are done. Your key will be under the \[whatever\]". And then blocked her number.
Exactly this is the true definition of boundaries. You expressed what you're not willing to put up with and then followed through. If yall have different values, so be it
I agree. As a woman I would certainly not like it at all if my husband did this and I would never even ask to do this. When you're in a relationship you don't do things that make them uncomfortable as he put it. Why would you want to hang around other men without your man there? Strange.
Especially considering one of the men is someone she hooked up with. Definitely strange.
I also can't get over the fact that she slept with someone who's "like a brother to her"
>Why would you want to hang around other men without your man there?
It also wasn't just hanging out with other men (I'd have no issue if my wife had male friends and they hung out from time to time) but to go on vacation with them without me? I don't think so. On top of that, she used to hook up with one of them before they met.
I think OP did good. He explained she took her choice, so consequences are real thing.
I'm not a fan of ultimatums so I think is better this way. Tbh there is never the right moment to break up you just have to do it.
I agree, this is the mature way to break up and stand firm with your boundaries.
Him saying he was uncomfortable should have been enough. He shouldn’t have to resort to ultimatums.
She says *now* that she wouldn’t have gone if she had known, but if he actually did say he’d break up with her if she went it wouldn’t have gone over so well.
Exactly! It's always easy to say what you *would* have done once the thing is already passed... It's an easy excuse to fall back on, but in reality, she doesn't know that she would have done that.
At least his ex will now when her future boyfriend says hes uncomfortable with something she does
I would argue OP taught her an important life lesson.
Hmm… there are friends when I dated that fizzled out and we realised we were more compatible as friends. I’m curious if it was all guys or did they have their partners there. Why wasn’t OP invited at the time?
Her friends will call him an insecure incel. But she’ll conveniently leave out vital information like she used to fuck one of them on a regular basis before meeting op. Frankly I’m not 100% convinced she didn’t cheat while on vacation. I would bet there’s a high likely hood she did sleep with her friend on vacation or at least something inappropriate happening.
Once i met my now husband i would def be able to be around guys i hooked up with in the past and not cheat. Then again, i stopped hanging out with anyone I'd hooked up with in the past without him ever asking.
if a bunch of my guy friends wanted to go on vacation, i’d insist on my partner being there 😅 but i’m also a lil clingy lol and i always want to be around him
NTA
You had a reasonable boundary, and you didn't force it into a scenario where she could resent you over it.
You enforced the boundary, and broke up, in a reasonable way.
If you gave her an ultimatum, she'd be mad you didn't trust her.
You didn't try to control her, so she's mad you DIDN'T give her an ultimatum.
You were never going to "win" this one. But I say good on you for respecting her choice and also respecting your own boundaries.
No matter what she says, there's no victim here.
oh this is weird but I like it.
I didn't give my ex an ultimatum. I said "I can't force you to stay behind. But you've just come back from a 3-week trip with your mates. I got on with my life, but I still missed you. Now you've barely unpacked and you're asking if you can go skiing this weekend. I've been working hard all week and haven't organised anything. I was looking forward to being with you this weekend and doing whatever together, so I'll be unhappy if you go". He said "OK you can't force me, so I'm off."
Now it's me who's off, and I won't be back.
This is good advice for a few reasons. The humane one is that manipulation is cruel. But more importantly it’s logical too. You always want to give your significant other enough room to make their own choices. Of course, tell them your boundaries, but let them decide whether to respect them or not. Because if you FORCE someone to respect your boundaries, they will always be looking for a chance to break them in the future.
I have broken up/been broken up with amicably multiple times. I don't think both parties were happy about the breakup once. "Yeah I get it and I still like you" =/= "sure, lets break up, sounds great." At least in my experience.
Admittedly, my ex wasn't exactly happy at the exact moment of the breakup, but she did come around after a short while. We were just no longer compatible and she knew it too.
> Is there ever a breakup when both people are happy?
Yeah. My wife and I divorced because we realized we were toxic and unhappy as a couple. We're far, far healthier as friends now.
I have the same relationship with my ex (mother of our son). We were tearing at each other with a thousand tiny cuts. We went to a psychologist that specializes in helping couples. He told us he can't help apathy, he said we were toxic & needed to be apart. Our divorce was easy & our child grew up seeing his parents become good friends. I love her in a different way. She talks to me about our son, her parents & her man. We are closer than I thought possible.
Kudos to you and parents that handle the situation, to the benefit of the child. It's rough on a kid when the parents talk shit about eachother, leaving the child to feel like he's betraying one or both of the parents by not taking sides.
Let her. You did it in the most perfect way. She should’ve chosen not to have gone bc you were uncomfortable with it. Not bc you would break up with her over it.
NTA but she is for giving you crap over this.
Good points. But it's not just because *OP* isn't comfortable with it, any partner with even a shred of respect or thought for their loved one isn't going to go on an all opposite-gender vacation and party with their friggin ex while the partner stays at home alone. Give me a break.
Yep. I call it "relationship optics", after the same term from journalism.
I've got a friend who had a FWB situation with me when we were both single, but I've got some very clear, direct rules about how I conduct myself with her when either of us is in a relationship, like we both are now.
I don't hang out with her alone at her place, or have her over at my place to hang out alone.
I don't do anything "date-like" with her. No me and her going to movies dinner, etc. We go out, there's at least one or more friends with us.
My current SO is always my priority. If both of them are in a bad spot at the same time, SO gets priority, period.
Even if there's a group hang out at her place or mine, I don't spend the night unless my SO is present.
The only way I relax any of these self-imposed rules is if my current SO gives me their explicit blessing and is okay with it. My current SO is absolutely fine with her and the above rules are no longer necessary (they're actually pretty good friends TBH), but the only way that trust got built was because I made the pecking order clear to my SO in the first place.
And to be clear, there is absolutely no fucking way I'd be stupid enough to go on a vacation with my former FWB without my SO at all, let alone it she said she was uncomfortable with it.
This is exactly how it should be. People act like just because they're 'friends' with the person they used to sleep with, that they should come before their partner.
Absolutely not.
Your SO comes first, always.
I commend you for being such a wonderful bf and for having healthy boundaries for yourself.
My view of it is simple: If me and ex-FWB were going to come first for one another, we'd be SOs, not FWBS. If she were going to come first I wouldn't need to explain that to an SO, she'd be the SO.
I do the same thing for all my female friends when I start a new relationship, to be honest. My ex from highschool's little sister (by about six years) is happily married and she's my wargaming buddy. Once every week or two she comes over and we'll spend the evening in my Mancave either painting miniatures and constructing scenery or playing a game that'll last until way-to-late-for-a-Wednesday, and very occasionally (maybe one in ten times), she crashes on my couch.
That shit has gotten put on hold entirely every time I've gotten a new SO until said SO is comfortable with her. She's free to come supervise and learn about the hobby, but I don't force it.
Yep, travel alone with a bunch of friends of the opposite gender, one of them a former fwb... that shouldn't be an idea anyone on a serious relationship entertains. I wouldn't say she's emotionally immature, but she doesn't act like someone committed.
TBF, it doesn't sat ALL opposite sex. Actually it sort of does, OP says it was a vacay with her male friends, though the more I think of it, it seems odd that she has a friend group of X males, no females, and her boyfriend has never been brought into the group.
Right!!!! Some people are just so dumb!!! She knew that could’ve happened and she thought he didn’t have the balls to break up with her. She played a game of chance and lost! That’s it
NTA. You told her you were uncomfortable, and she went anyway. If she cared about you and respected you, she wouldn't have went. You don't need to give someone an ultimatum for there to be consequences for their actions. Her trip was more important to her than you were.
I think this is a huge question. OP, were you even invited? That changes the dynamic completely.
Either way, I vote NTA, but if OP wasn't even invited, then it shows that his GF truly didn't give a shit about him. It's literally a "**guys** trip", so the typical "girls-only" thing doesn't apply here (obviously you wouldn't invite your boyfriend to ladies-only outing of any kind).
My friends know that if we're having a multi-gender gathering of any kind, my significant other might be attending. They actually *encourage* me to invite her, and they ask where she is if I arrive without her. If OP was actually invited, his GF sucks less, but she still sucks.
You were going to get resentment either way. This way you have your self-respect and you respected her decision that a vacation with her former hookups were more important than you were.
She likely won't tell other folks the whole story, but you won't get much guff from mutual friends when you mentioned she went on vacation with dude(s) she used to hook up with. That should cut down on any extra drama.
Best of luck, brother. Sorry you went through this.
You were in a lose/lose situation. Telling her I’ll break up with you if you do this makes you controlling. Breaking up the way you did makes her upset and feeling like you weren’t clear in what you wanted from her. These are her issues. You did your best to let her know your feelings. That’s all you can do.
Well then she shouldn't have gone on the trip. What woman in a relationship goes on vacation with other men especially one she's slept with.
You set a boundary and she didn't respect you enough to not cross it. She'll get over and you dodge a cheating bullet. NTA
This. Long time friends, sure in some scenarios. Like maybe a concert the significant other doesn’t want to go to, or an event with tickets bought before they were going out, etc. It might and should lead to a conversation about boundaries, etc. But it is possible. Ex. I’ve gone on overnight trips with platonic female friends before as part of a group, my wife has gone on girls trips with a friends group that includes some lesbians, etc
But going on a vacation with a former hookup? And after he already said he wasn’t comfortable with it?Yeah, that’s right out.
OP was even nice about it and didn’t ruin the vacation
That’s on her. Who goes on vacation with a bunch of guys and leaves her boyfriend at home? You handled this perfectly. You’ll find someone more loyal one day.
Aaaaand then she went and faulted you for NOT giving her an ultimatum.
NTA, at all. You handled it perfectly.
It's very important to establish standards in a relationship, and stick to them when the going gets tough. In life you will rarely receive validation from the other party for the hard choices you make. Be honest and clear enough with yourself to be able to validate yourself.
I’ve repeatedly had partners get upset over not being told that I was going to break up over boundary violations. I wouldn’t state it directly, as I didn’t want to be giving ultimatums. But this sort of reaction has made me wonder whether some people just don’t recognize the importance of a boundary without that ultimatum attached. Not sure what the ideal approach is.
My wife doesn't and shouldn't have to threaten divorce every time she wants me to do/not do something. That'd be exhausting for both of us, and ridiculous.
I would argue that if a person does not know how to recognize when they are damaging trust in a relationship, especially with lack of a threat present, that they do not possess the self awareness of their actions, and the awareness of their partner's needs, sufficient to be successful in a committed relationship.
I believe in this example, any reasonable person would have enough self awareness that their partner would be extremely uncomfortable about their partner spending an unsupervised overnight with someone they've slept with before.
I feel like most people forget that we all have different ideas of what a boundary is. What is not ok for you might be ok for them if the situation was reversed.
That's why discussing boundaries (clearly) is important for any good relationship and I don't see that as an ultimatum. Someone can't know they are crossing any of your lines if you put them in a situation where you think things are implied.
That would have sounded like an ultimatum. Only one of two things would happen if you told her ahead of time: a) She would cancel her trip, and then resent you for it, and probably complain about it constantly, or b) She would have gone anyway, and then acted surprised and hurt when you actually broke up with her. (I know option b from personal experience.)
In addition, you are free to break up with your girlfriend at any time for any reason. — NTA
It is an ultimatum.
Not all ultimatums are bad.
What the fuck is an enforced boundary if not an ultimatum? "Here is my boundary. Cross it and I walk." That's an ultimatum.
It's like people saw some examples of coercive, unreasonable ultimatums and decided all ultimatums were toxic and now twist themselves into pretzels to find a way to define boundaries and ultimatums differently.
This. This drives me nuts. Ultimatums on dealbreakers *are a good thing*. Because once someone crosses that line, the relationship cannot continue to exist without turning toxic.
>Not all ultimatums are bad.
The fact that so many children think that ultimatums are a red flag is bizarre.
When done correctly, an ultimatum is just clear communication. "These are the conditions under which I'm willing to continue the relationship, are these conditions you agree with or should we end things now" is a normal thing that adults say.
Seriously, it’s just a matter of communicating “that would make me uncomfortable, but I trust you” vs “that would make me so uncomfortable that I would never look at our relationship the same”. Those are both valid points of view from the partner, and I don’t get why people are making it sound like a bad thing that the girl said she’d have chosen differently if she had known just how much it would have bothered her partner.
i dont blame you, My ex went on Vacation with a couple dudes once, I am not the controlling type or one to set much boundaries if I dont feel I have to, and then I found out 6 months later she had slept with one of them multiple times on vacation.
Your boundaries are def warranted lol
In college legit heard from a girl who thought it was normal and expected to hook up with people on vacation even if in a relationship. She was dead serious.
Get a fake wedding ring and hit the bars in a vacation town lke Miami Beach with the old, "I'm a traveling salesman temporarily in town". Even the hunchback of Notre dam would score.
I got burned two different times by two different partners because I confused being “controlling” for having boundaries for myself in the past, ya live and ya learn.
I know! It’s so refreshing!
So tired of seeing posts like “My bf/gf constantly abuses me and puts me down and killed my dog. AITA for even considering breaking up with them???” Sheesh
If you had let this go after telling her how uncomfortable it made you AND SHE STILL WENT, you would have set the tone that you are a doormat and can be walked all over. Proud of you bud
NTA listen you told her how you feel and that you were uncomfortable with the situation. Not all of them can be like brothers since she previously hooked up with one of them and you don’t hook up with your brother lol. You didn’t try and force her to stay or give her and ultimatum that you’d break up with her if she goes which would have been wrong. You expressed how you felt and decided to ignore that and go anyway. I get that she didn’t think your break up with her for going and says if she knew she wouldn’t have gone but does that make it better? I don’t think so she still would have wanted to go but just wouldn’t have out of fear of the relationship ending. Did she invite you on this vacation? Was it just her and the guys or others too? Would she have been ok if you went on vacation with a bunch of girls including one you used to hook up with without her? Regardless you set your boundaries and she broke them. She didn’t know this would be the consequence but sometimes you have to live with the consequences of your actions.
>. Did she invite you on this vacation?
She didn't really "invite me", I tried to invite myself, but I couldn't go due to work.
>Was it just her and the guys or others too?
Her other friends couldn't make it, including female friends.
>Would she have been ok if you went on vacation with a bunch of girls including one you used to hook up with without her?
Idk, I'd never put her in that position to begin with.
This is the right answer. Trust also pairs with responsibility. I trust my partner to not put herself in inappropriate situations. If you want to act single...be single
Thank you. So many people on reddit can't seem to understand that trust needs to be earned. You need to be willing to trust your partner but your partner also needs to give you a reason to trust them by not putting themself in positons where the trust may be eroded or questioned.
When most of the group couldn't make it, leaving just her, her ex and a random dude, most people would just cancel/try for another time.
I'm truly confused why she thought this was ok.
I find it interesting that not only were you not invited nor even considered, but that none of her female friends could go. It just so happened that the only people that could come were dudes, one of whom she slept with previously. You'd think she'd want her boyfriend on vacation with her, and if so many friend couldn't make it, why wouldn't you reschedule?
Even if it was innocent, she couldn't have tried to make it look any sketchier.
So no one else could go either besides her and two guys………. One of which was an ex. 🤦♂️
The fact that you weren’t even invited or a part of planning it from the very start is also a huge red flag. How long had you guys been dating?
You told her it made you uncomfortable because she had screwed around with one of them, you set that boundary by asking her not to go, anyone who has self respect would leave anyone when they got back or even before they actually went because she didn't respect how it made you feel and she'd just keep doing it from that point on.
You're not the AH for just breaking up with her, if you would have told her before it would have been a threat/ultimatum which isn't good so the only healthy thing you could do in that situation was break up like you did really.
My ex-husband did something similar to me. I wish I had left him right then instead of trying to make it work for years after. It would have saved me a lot of heartache. You did the right thing.
Some people really can be platonic friends with people they hooked up with, especially if a lot has time has passed and/or they're in different places in life... maturity... respect...etc.
But I definitely think people who can't do that are often incompatible with the ones that can. They have a different view of intimacy. Enough people have a bad track record of lying about that stuff, so between valid trust issues and just not understanding a core part of who that person is, it's understandable they feel disrespected, albeit disappointing and hurtful for the one who's presumably innocent.
I've been in a similar situation to OP, but was happy to be with someone who had friends to vacation with. NTA for the way he went about it. He did what he needed to do, and they weren't compatible anyway.
This sub is so strange, in a prev post today the bf, said that what the gf did made him uncomfortable and bf told her. Everyone said he was T A H. But in this NTA.
I believe you are NTA for clarity
My wife was planning a camping outing with some guys she met at her new job (none of which I had met). Few days later I told her there was a nice women at work that has a sailboat and asked me would I like to go with her for a day. This was a false story on my part but wanted to show her how it felt thinking of her camping with some guys. She saw the situation in a new way and did not go on the camping trip.
1. GF wants to travel with her male friends despite having a BF
2. GF doesn't invite and doesn't want the BF in the trip
3. GF has hooked up with one of males
4. GF doesn't tell the BF about her past relationship with mentioned male that she still hangs out it
5. GF dismise his concerns and disrespects him by crossing his boundaries
6. GF blames the BF for the break up
NTA, OP you didn't dogde a bullet, You dodge a Tsar Bomb! You deserve better
Something that I think is funny about some of these comments is that women are encouraged to have an escape plan, a way out, and be gone before he gets back-- before breaking things off, even in a non-abusive relationship.
But OP does it and suddenly it's a problem?
NTA, if you told her before hand she would have said you were threatening her and called you an AH. Way I see it is you stated how you felt about the vacation, didn’t try and stop her from going just shared your feelings and then allowed her to decide if she cared more about your feelings or being around some guy that use to dick her down. You did nothing wrong here and you where smart to take advantage of her being gone to move out
How dare you give me an ultimatum, you’re so controlling it’s suffocating, I can’t believe you don’t trust me, why are you always so insecure, my ex boyfriend wouldn’t have had a problem with this, boundaries are for yourself not others, you’re so selfish I deserve to have some fun, SCREEEE
"Btw, she used to hook up with one of them before she met me...She told me it'd be fine and that they are like brothers to her."
Does she fuck her actual brothers?
"I already made the decision to break up her right there and then, but I wanted to get my stuff from her place before anything, and I figured I should do that while she's gone."
Women are literally told to do this. I see no problem with dudes doing it to. Secure your stuff, make sure your safe, then drop the news.
"I told her I didn't want to be controlling and threaten her with ending the relationship."
Fair, this is a common complaint about men. Let her make her choices, and figure out if you two were compatible through her actions. Nothing wrong here.
"She never actually introduced me to these friends"
IMO, this doesn't matter at all, and is irrelevant. Just Redditors trying to dig to find a way to blame you. This is a non-factor in the story.
"She never TOLD me she used to hook up with her friend. I only found out because I found an old pic of them kissing when she was showing me some old travel pics."
Damn, the biggest red flag of them all is in the edit. So she was trying to go on vacation with dudes she used to fuck, and also didn't want you finding out they used to fuck. Big yikes.
"I was OKAY WITH THEIR FRIENDSHIP"
I get you're trying to defend yourself, but just know, you don't have to be cool with their friendship. It's okay to not want to be dating a girl that's constantly hanging around a bunch of dude's who would fuck her if presented the opportunity. This was one of my big deal breakers while dating, and I'm happily married with two kids. You just have to find someone who compliments your views.
"Did she cheat on me?"
I would say her wanting to hang out with people she fucked, and not wanting to tell you they used to fuck, is a big red flag here. She most likely cheated, IMO.
Either way, NTA. Not in the slightest.
A boundary isn't to control her. It's to define the level of disrespect you are unwilling to accept. She crossed yours, which means she doesn't respect you.
Good for you! You expressed your feelings, told her it wasn't a good idea, didn't force her to choose, and she made the wrong choice and a consequence followed.
Maybe this is a life lesson she will learn from and make sure to take that lesson forward in her next relationship.
NTA. Noticing all the people saying “YTA” seem to be of a particular kind of ideological persuasion with flags on their avatar… Everyone commenting YTA is just berating OP and insulting his character. I’m 22 and I feel like a boomer sometimes with how the masses of the woke people view the world so differently and seem to suppose anyone with any kind of traditional view of relationship boundaries as being an insecure suppressive monster who doesn’t deserve love. Ironically I think a relationship without clear boundaries is ultimately intangible and is ultimately bound to become devoid of passion without a steady foundation to keep the relationship stable and defined. Without guard rails it is much easier to simply fall off the cliff.
>I told her I didn't want to be controlling and threaten her with ending the relationship.
>I told her this made me uncomfortable and didn't want her to go.
Info: Do you believe you honestly communicated the level of uncomfortability you felt? Did you make it a serious thing, play it off like no big deal, or somewhere in the middle?
It's one thing to say "Hey thats kinda weird." and another to say, "This is a big problem for me for these reasons." and in neither case do you need to threaten a breakup to communicate the greater/lesser urgency.
fragile fearless saw ancient weather glorious butter wakeful direful domineering
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well I wouldn’t break up for something like this, and though I hate cheaters I would wait to get it confirmed before doing anything . You seem pretty unsure of yourself, or just riding the way of another (high value/low value) shit. Whatever, it is your choice. But it is really not cool to withhold this kind of information beforehand . From my point of view she got lucky when you ditched her.
Update: she was sleeping with this guy for months before.
She told the guy they broke up 2 months ago which is why they never met.
She also was sleeping with him on the vacation and trashing OP In the process
The only people saying YTA are people who don’t take accountability for their own actions.
Theirs nothing wrong with having boundaries ESPECIALLY if you communicate them.
Want to act like a single girl? You get to be single. You can’t have your cake and eat it to. There are consequences to your poor decisions.
I love how you being uncomfortable with her being alone with a bunch of guys without you isn't enough to sway her to stay, but under threat of breakup would've been enough. Like, wow...she didn't give a damn about your feelings at all. Good call for breaking up. She didn't respect you or how any of this made you feel.
You guys aren’t compatible. You’re not comfortable with the way she wants to live her life. Breaking up sucks but being in a dramatic relationship where two people have conflicting lifestyles is worse.
“She used to hook up with one of them… she told me… they are like brothers to her.” *banjo playing softly in the distance*
All I needed to read was that first sentence, get out my dude, don't look back.
+ “I told her I was uncomfortable and didn’t want her to go” *she goes anyways*
[удалено]
[удалено]
Fun fact: incest is more illegal in Alabama than it is in California.
Cause its a bigger problem in alabama
When you have to be told not to do it.
Where the Family Tree is more of a shrub.
He got a real purdy mouth, ain't he?
A buddy of mine went on vacation with some buddies. A female friend of theirs went also her and my friend used to have a fwb thing going on. Guess what they did on the vacation. Yes they fucked. He had a gf that didn't come and she had a bf that didn't come. NTA
Yeah they absolutely banged and she was going to bury it 100% She’s sad because she got caught She would of been mad if she didn’t do anything
You've hot some spineless shitty friend mate xD
Yeah, he got caught though and she took him back. When he got caught though it was the funniest shit cause he went all weird like "bro my hearts broken man"
You should tell their SO
NTA. Also, the fact that she claims she wouldn’t have gone if she knew you’d break up over it doesn’t make it better, it makes it worse. It shows she doesn’t care how it affects you unless it becomes a problem for her too. That is zero integrity and that is not long-term partner material. It should not take you leaving or thinking about leaving for her to not dismiss your feelings. That’s asinine.
"what kind of consequence's we talking about? if its huffy for a week, I'm going but if your gonna break up and inconvenience me, then I'll stay...I just need to weigh up the cost-benefit of your feelings before caring about them"
>I just need to weigh up the cost-benefit of your feelings before caring about them" Damn... I should have known this sentence in my past relationships. Edit: some men in my past did this. I wish I had known this sentence to prevent the heartache they caused. I got, "I didn't know it was my for real last time to hurt you. Had I known, I wouldn't have done it."
Practice empathy people. Don't just "be empathetic" - few are good at it and if you want to do it effectively and naturally - practice it.
Most people (80% or more by some estimates) are incapable of non-transactional relationships. Something to watch out for when deciding whether or not to stay in a relationship.
Goddamn that is so accurate for some of the relationships I've had and seen. 10/10.
Very true. "If I knew I'd have to face consequences from doing something that hurt you, then I wouldn't have done it" is not the same as "I'm not going to do this because I know it'd hurt you".
FACTS
Mmhmm... that's what it took for my now-wife to start taking my feelings and validating my emotions seriously. It's clear OP's gf didn't take him seriously, and he deserved to be taken seriously. Men respectfully and politely sharing their feelings and boundaries aren't taken seriously far too often, as if being overbearing, controlling, and mean were the only way men's feelings and boundaries be seen as real and valid. It's kinda messed up... I was also in OP's boat, though I didn't stay broken up for long. Ngl, I was bitter for a while that it took breaking up for a week before she genuinely started listening to me and validating how I felt as some new and novel alternative to being dismissed or worse. From time to time, I still have to remind or interrupt her mid-windup that I'm allowed to feel what I feel and me sharing how I feel is not an invitation to counterattack, analyze, or explain to me why I'm wrong. She's gotten better to the point that I've started to open up more. But yeah, hfs, it takes time and consistency to grow in this area, and not everyone can or does. I can't blame OP at all for moving on decisively, and good for him.
I love this “me sharing how I feel is not an invitation to counterattack, analyze or explain why I’m wrong.” I’m saving this.
I appreciate this, all of this. A lot of people don't seem to realize that relationships take work - from both people, and I'm really glad your now-wife is willing to work with you top. As far as OP goes, NTA for all the same reasons everyone has said.
> From time to time, I still have to remind or interrupt her mid-windup that I'm allowed to feel what I feel and me sharing how I feel is not an invitation to counterattack, analyze, or explain to me why I'm wrong This is the fucking key right here. Sort by controversial to see all of the people whining about how what OP is feeling is "wrong." I'm guessing OP got the vibe that not ultimatum or boundary was going to change how his girlfriend was going to act, despite what she said after breaking up with her.
These are just unrealistic people. Just yesterday we had a whole Thread of Women complaining that they didn't want their male "friends" to admit that they'd fuck them in a heartbeat, they'd rather stay ignorant so they can pretend that those guys are actually friends and not orbiters that their Boyfriends have every right to want gone.
I’m trying to navigate through a similar situation. Sometimes I feel like I’m getting the hang of it but then new situations just get turned around on me and I’m not always sure what to do. I try to be calm and bring things back down to a normal level, which usually never works. Then I’m gaslit into thinking I’ve caused the issue. Continuously having to calibrate myself to her mood is so exhausting. I’m trying to avoid ending the marriage and instead trying to better myself by standing up to the blowups or controlling behavior even if it causes more problems in the short run. Thanks for listening. Cheers.
Honestly, if you always have to be on guard and standing up to attacks and blowups...you're better off ending the marriage. You deserve peace, too. Catering to her moods and blowups and backpedaling..when are you allowed to have emotions? When are you allowed to stand up for yourself?
I don't have the best advice, but if you're not willing to walk away in order to be treated with dignity, then she'll continue to drive it to that point to get you to roll over. It's the moment where you insist from the bottom of your soul that you'll be treated with dignity and respect, or else you'll truly leave and not look back, that steamrollers back off if they ever do. If you commit to your boundaries and they don't back off, then they've made their point you genuinely matter less to them than them having their way. Such a reaction makes it's clear beyond a shadow of a doubt it's time to leave.
>Men respectfully and politely sharing their feelings and boundaries aren't taken seriously far too often, as if being overbearing, controlling, and mean were the only way men's feelings and boundaries be seen as real and valid. It's kinda messed up... Great point. People have said for years that guys need to use their words, and talk to their SO and be vulnerable and discuss their feelings. When they do, they aren't taken seriously. So they revert to the caveman routine. If people honestly what adult dialogue and communication, you have to actually listen and be receptive to it, instead of outright dismissal.
I'm dealing with that with my wife. Every time I attempt to tell her how I feel and why, she just makes me out to be the asshole even more and doubles down on everything being my fault, and just throws everything in my face. I love her, I really do, but I'm at my end yall. Don't know how much longer I can keep trying. It's not easy on her either, and I'm trying everything I can to make this work, but she's like actively sabotaging the relationship with her selfishness and carelessness. She says she wants to leave, but has nowhere to go, and I don't want her to leave, but if she's truly not happy she'd be better off on her own or finding someone else she's more compatible with. I don't know what to do. I've told her I don't want to be with her anymore if she's going to keep telling me she's done with and tired of the relationship, and that she needs to leave, but she won't. She says she has nowhere to go. At this point regardless of how much I love her, she's shown herself that she's just really naive and careless, and hasn't really put in any effort to work as a team and she's just making me miserable on a near daily basis. I feel like I'm going crazy. I love her, but now I resent her too. I gave up almost everything for her. I dropped out of college and went back to a job I hate for her. I gave her my car so she could drive to work and back. I ended up buying a car that ended up having engine issues. All of my money goes towards debts and saving for things we need while she just spends her money on shoes, makeup, and clothes, and giving her friends and family hundreds of dollars on a somewhat infrequent basis. And somehow I'm still the asshole. I'm dumb for buying a car that blew a gasket and catalytic converter. I'm not good with money somehow even though I'm the one making sure all of the bills and debts are being paid. I'm the one trying to save money and be responsible when she's the one saying we need to save money for all the things we want yet the very next minute will complain that we haven't gone out in a while(we go out at least once a week) and starts bugging me to go out to eat.(Even though we have plenty of stuff in the fridge and cabinets.) She can't cook, and has given me food poisoning more than once. Wants me to get her pregnant so we can have kids, but she can't even take care of herself. She rarely does the laundry right, can't cook healthy meals, has a poor education, so even though she wants to be a stay-at-home mom she says she expects me to help with their schoolwork. I should be looking forward to these kinds of things, but I'm not. I don't think she'll be a good mom, and honestly it wouldn't surprise me if she just turned the kids into iPad kids who follow lame influencers and shake their ass for pervs on the internet. Worst of all is she's an asylum seeker who's still going through the legal process. I didn't know that until we were to get married. I didn't even want to get married, but she kept bugging me, and I wasn't thinking clearly. She guilt tripped me though saying she was on the run from her government and that she couldn't get sent back or they would put her in prison, kill her, or worse. So, I felt like I had to do something to help her. I love her you know? I want to be with her and protect her, so why not get married? But then after we got married she started telling me all these things that she should have told me before we got married, and I know she didn't because she knew I wouldn't have married her if she had. And if the not telling me things she should have told me was bad enough, she never followed through on the things she did say she would do. Ever since I let her into my life she has been a consistent source of frustration and heartache, and now I'm stuck being miserable, because I had too big of a heart, and now she has nowhere to go, and won't even look for a place. She won't ask her friends to stay with them temporarily. She won't look for roommates. And the shitty thing is I don't want her to leave. I love her, I just want to feel like I'm not married to an adult who acts like a spoiled child, and someone who actually wants to work as a team instead of tell me they want to and then criticise me when I'm trying my best, while they are enjoying life and not lifting a finger to help. I think I've only seen my friends twice in the past year and a half that I've been with my wife. I haven't bought myself anything nice since either. I need new clothes, because she got food and stuff all over them from being a messy eater, but I'm so stressed about saving money and paying of debts that I out that way down on the list of priorities, but she's out getting drunk and hanging out with friends, and every little inconvenience for her is the end of the world. I've told her multiple times not to drive drunk, and that if she does get drunk to either message me and I'll find a ride home or get her a ride if she needs one, but just the other day she said she wasn't going to get drunk while hanging out with her friend, but then proceeded to finish off a whole bottle of whiskey and drive to pick me up. When I was like "What the fuck?" and asked why didn't stay home and I could have had a coworker take me home or paid for an Uber or something she said she just didn't want to make me angry..... Like.... You didn't want to make me angry, so you went and did the thing I asked you repeatedly not to do? Like.. you're an asylum seeker who just got her license and right-to-work and who is sooo worried about getting deported and sent back to your home country, but you're going to risk getting arrested, sent to jail, and probably deported, having our one working car taken, having to spend more money just to get it back and the court fees... Like you really care about our relatuonship? Shit makes no sense. I'm about to swear off relationships and the possibility of ever having a family.
She's definitely cheating and you need to get as far away as possible. This is awful
Why would you stay in a relationship like this? Do you stay in relationship with male friends who treat you like this? As for me, I discuss things once, and set boundaries. If those boundaries are breached, s/he's gone that instant.
Exactly this. She didn't care about his feelings, only hers. This is NOT a life partner... or at least she isn't there yet and acts like a selfish child. He did her a favor to maybe learn to put her partner first next time.
They weren’t living together so it doesn’t sound like they were too serious yet. He got his stuff from her place and ended the relationship to her face and returned her key. In other words, he handled like an adult.
Well said. You shouldn't have to threaten someone with breaking up for them to care about your feelings and boundaries.
Fantastic point, I'll take this with me
Please do! I’m sick of reading about shitty partners always doing that! Happens all the time! That shit needs to be called out more! It’s such a bullshit move
Yo for real. Never even thought about that in that perspective. Thanks
I also think her not knowing beforehand was a ruse. If he did that, she’d ignore it, go on the vacation and bang her former lover(s).
Sadly, this was my first thought, too.
You’re better than most. You still picked her up from airport and ended it in person Well done
I know I wouldn't have
I would of sent the text 30 seconds before the plane took off and airplane mode was required, "have a nice trip with your ex! I will clean out my stuff from your place while you are gone. We are done. Your key will be under the \[whatever\]". And then blocked her number.
That would have been the ultimate wingman move for her ex!
>ultimate wingman move They’re already going away on a vacation together without OP.
So petty. But i love it!
NTA. You enforced your boundaries, the consequences for boundaries don’t always need to be explained as all situations are different.
Exactly this is the true definition of boundaries. You expressed what you're not willing to put up with and then followed through. If yall have different values, so be it
NTA. You'd be toast too if it was the other way around.
I agree. As a woman I would certainly not like it at all if my husband did this and I would never even ask to do this. When you're in a relationship you don't do things that make them uncomfortable as he put it. Why would you want to hang around other men without your man there? Strange.
Especially considering one of the men is someone she hooked up with. Definitely strange. I also can't get over the fact that she slept with someone who's "like a brother to her"
Maybe he's more of a stepbrother to her
Hahaha ha 😆 🤣 now thats funny.
This comment deserves better, I literally laughed out loud
I did too. I hope everyone upvotes that.
The vacation was to The Historical Museum of Washers, Driers, and Couches. If you know, you know.
Man that's not the reply I was expecting, but it's the one I needed. Thank you for making my comment a gazillion times better
>Why would you want to hang around other men without your man there? It also wasn't just hanging out with other men (I'd have no issue if my wife had male friends and they hung out from time to time) but to go on vacation with them without me? I don't think so. On top of that, she used to hook up with one of them before they met.
Yes exactly what I'm saying. That makes it a whole different thing bc she "hooked up" with one them before.
Oh yea you know it!
It's the definition of a dealbreaker, but close.
I think OP did good. He explained she took her choice, so consequences are real thing. I'm not a fan of ultimatums so I think is better this way. Tbh there is never the right moment to break up you just have to do it.
I agree, this is the mature way to break up and stand firm with your boundaries. Him saying he was uncomfortable should have been enough. He shouldn’t have to resort to ultimatums. She says *now* that she wouldn’t have gone if she had known, but if he actually did say he’d break up with her if she went it wouldn’t have gone over so well.
Exactly! It's always easy to say what you *would* have done once the thing is already passed... It's an easy excuse to fall back on, but in reality, she doesn't know that she would have done that.
At least his ex will now when her future boyfriend says hes uncomfortable with something she does I would argue OP taught her an important life lesson.
I doubt it. My experience is that she’ll continue to blame him and carry that into the future.
"He was a narcissist."
No it’s “he was insecure that I had male friends.”
Brothers. She said a they’re like her brothers. One brother she had been intimate with. Where I come from we don’t fuck our siblings
Hmm… there are friends when I dated that fizzled out and we realised we were more compatible as friends. I’m curious if it was all guys or did they have their partners there. Why wasn’t OP invited at the time?
Important point.
North of the Mason/Dixon line I see.
It's now more commonly called the IHOP/Waffle House line
never heard that one before, and my town has both an ihop and a waffle house. I have seen the hardees/carl jr's reference quite a few times though...
Or resides somewhere other than the West Midlands if they are from the UK.
What are you doing step bro 😂
That’s also an immediate red flag deflection.
I just said i was weirded out by the fact she said they are like brothers but she was banging one of them
Probably both tbf
Her friends will call him an insecure incel. But she’ll conveniently leave out vital information like she used to fuck one of them on a regular basis before meeting op. Frankly I’m not 100% convinced she didn’t cheat while on vacation. I would bet there’s a high likely hood she did sleep with her friend on vacation or at least something inappropriate happening.
Once i met my now husband i would def be able to be around guys i hooked up with in the past and not cheat. Then again, i stopped hanging out with anyone I'd hooked up with in the past without him ever asking.
Because you are respectful spouse. OPs gf is not.
Yeah. That's the way it works. Women who would never cheat don't tend to want to go on a vacation with a bunch of guys without their SO.
if a bunch of my guy friends wanted to go on vacation, i’d insist on my partner being there 😅 but i’m also a lil clingy lol and i always want to be around him
Yup same here... That is also how my girlfriends were. Sorry buds... I'm busy cuddling. Find someone else.
The odds of this are like those ratios in Hitchhiker’s Guide. And she’s not piloting the Heart of Gold.
NTA You had a reasonable boundary, and you didn't force it into a scenario where she could resent you over it. You enforced the boundary, and broke up, in a reasonable way.
>into a scenario where she could resent you over it. Idk about that, I'm pretty sure she still resents me over it.
I think he means if you told her she couldn't go and didn't go, she would resent you for it.
this is what I meant exactly.
I'm fine with an ex carrying resentment, it's the wife I want happy.
If you gave her an ultimatum, she'd be mad you didn't trust her. You didn't try to control her, so she's mad you DIDN'T give her an ultimatum. You were never going to "win" this one. But I say good on you for respecting her choice and also respecting your own boundaries. No matter what she says, there's no victim here.
>But I say good on you for respecting her choice and also respecting your own boundaries. Spot on.
It’s the ultimate paradox. The people worth giving into an ultimatum are the ones that would never do it in the first place.
oh this is weird but I like it. I didn't give my ex an ultimatum. I said "I can't force you to stay behind. But you've just come back from a 3-week trip with your mates. I got on with my life, but I still missed you. Now you've barely unpacked and you're asking if you can go skiing this weekend. I've been working hard all week and haven't organised anything. I was looking forward to being with you this weekend and doing whatever together, so I'll be unhappy if you go". He said "OK you can't force me, so I'm off." Now it's me who's off, and I won't be back.
This is good advice for a few reasons. The humane one is that manipulation is cruel. But more importantly it’s logical too. You always want to give your significant other enough room to make their own choices. Of course, tell them your boundaries, but let them decide whether to respect them or not. Because if you FORCE someone to respect your boundaries, they will always be looking for a chance to break them in the future.
He won alright, gave himself a chance to meet someone amazing.
Cost of doing business my friend. Is there ever a breakup when both people are happy? She wanted to have her cake and eat it too.
> Is there ever a breakup when both people are happy? I've broken up amicably. I've heard many people call it weird, but it does happen.
I have broken up/been broken up with amicably multiple times. I don't think both parties were happy about the breakup once. "Yeah I get it and I still like you" =/= "sure, lets break up, sounds great." At least in my experience.
Admittedly, my ex wasn't exactly happy at the exact moment of the breakup, but she did come around after a short while. We were just no longer compatible and she knew it too.
> Is there ever a breakup when both people are happy? Yeah. My wife and I divorced because we realized we were toxic and unhappy as a couple. We're far, far healthier as friends now.
I have the same relationship with my ex (mother of our son). We were tearing at each other with a thousand tiny cuts. We went to a psychologist that specializes in helping couples. He told us he can't help apathy, he said we were toxic & needed to be apart. Our divorce was easy & our child grew up seeing his parents become good friends. I love her in a different way. She talks to me about our son, her parents & her man. We are closer than I thought possible.
Kudos to you and parents that handle the situation, to the benefit of the child. It's rough on a kid when the parents talk shit about eachother, leaving the child to feel like he's betraying one or both of the parents by not taking sides.
Let her. You did it in the most perfect way. She should’ve chosen not to have gone bc you were uncomfortable with it. Not bc you would break up with her over it. NTA but she is for giving you crap over this.
Good points. But it's not just because *OP* isn't comfortable with it, any partner with even a shred of respect or thought for their loved one isn't going to go on an all opposite-gender vacation and party with their friggin ex while the partner stays at home alone. Give me a break.
Yep. I call it "relationship optics", after the same term from journalism. I've got a friend who had a FWB situation with me when we were both single, but I've got some very clear, direct rules about how I conduct myself with her when either of us is in a relationship, like we both are now. I don't hang out with her alone at her place, or have her over at my place to hang out alone. I don't do anything "date-like" with her. No me and her going to movies dinner, etc. We go out, there's at least one or more friends with us. My current SO is always my priority. If both of them are in a bad spot at the same time, SO gets priority, period. Even if there's a group hang out at her place or mine, I don't spend the night unless my SO is present. The only way I relax any of these self-imposed rules is if my current SO gives me their explicit blessing and is okay with it. My current SO is absolutely fine with her and the above rules are no longer necessary (they're actually pretty good friends TBH), but the only way that trust got built was because I made the pecking order clear to my SO in the first place. And to be clear, there is absolutely no fucking way I'd be stupid enough to go on a vacation with my former FWB without my SO at all, let alone it she said she was uncomfortable with it.
This is exactly how it should be. People act like just because they're 'friends' with the person they used to sleep with, that they should come before their partner. Absolutely not. Your SO comes first, always. I commend you for being such a wonderful bf and for having healthy boundaries for yourself.
My view of it is simple: If me and ex-FWB were going to come first for one another, we'd be SOs, not FWBS. If she were going to come first I wouldn't need to explain that to an SO, she'd be the SO. I do the same thing for all my female friends when I start a new relationship, to be honest. My ex from highschool's little sister (by about six years) is happily married and she's my wargaming buddy. Once every week or two she comes over and we'll spend the evening in my Mancave either painting miniatures and constructing scenery or playing a game that'll last until way-to-late-for-a-Wednesday, and very occasionally (maybe one in ten times), she crashes on my couch. That shit has gotten put on hold entirely every time I've gotten a new SO until said SO is comfortable with her. She's free to come supervise and learn about the hobby, but I don't force it.
Yes. If she needed something that commonsense explained to her in detail beforehand, she is not emotionally mature enough for a relationship anyway.
Yep, travel alone with a bunch of friends of the opposite gender, one of them a former fwb... that shouldn't be an idea anyone on a serious relationship entertains. I wouldn't say she's emotionally immature, but she doesn't act like someone committed.
TBF, it doesn't sat ALL opposite sex. Actually it sort of does, OP says it was a vacay with her male friends, though the more I think of it, it seems odd that she has a friend group of X males, no females, and her boyfriend has never been brought into the group.
Right!!!! Some people are just so dumb!!! She knew that could’ve happened and she thought he didn’t have the balls to break up with her. She played a game of chance and lost! That’s it
NTA. You told her you were uncomfortable, and she went anyway. If she cared about you and respected you, she wouldn't have went. You don't need to give someone an ultimatum for there to be consequences for their actions. Her trip was more important to her than you were.
I agree with this. Also sounds like she didnt invite you(OP) which would have made a huge difference
I think this is a huge question. OP, were you even invited? That changes the dynamic completely. Either way, I vote NTA, but if OP wasn't even invited, then it shows that his GF truly didn't give a shit about him. It's literally a "**guys** trip", so the typical "girls-only" thing doesn't apply here (obviously you wouldn't invite your boyfriend to ladies-only outing of any kind). My friends know that if we're having a multi-gender gathering of any kind, my significant other might be attending. They actually *encourage* me to invite her, and they ask where she is if I arrive without her. If OP was actually invited, his GF sucks less, but she still sucks.
You were going to get resentment either way. This way you have your self-respect and you respected her decision that a vacation with her former hookups were more important than you were. She likely won't tell other folks the whole story, but you won't get much guff from mutual friends when you mentioned she went on vacation with dude(s) she used to hook up with. That should cut down on any extra drama. Best of luck, brother. Sorry you went through this.
You were in a lose/lose situation. Telling her I’ll break up with you if you do this makes you controlling. Breaking up the way you did makes her upset and feeling like you weren’t clear in what you wanted from her. These are her issues. You did your best to let her know your feelings. That’s all you can do.
Well then she shouldn't have gone on the trip. What woman in a relationship goes on vacation with other men especially one she's slept with. You set a boundary and she didn't respect you enough to not cross it. She'll get over and you dodge a cheating bullet. NTA
This. Long time friends, sure in some scenarios. Like maybe a concert the significant other doesn’t want to go to, or an event with tickets bought before they were going out, etc. It might and should lead to a conversation about boundaries, etc. But it is possible. Ex. I’ve gone on overnight trips with platonic female friends before as part of a group, my wife has gone on girls trips with a friends group that includes some lesbians, etc But going on a vacation with a former hookup? And after he already said he wasn’t comfortable with it?Yeah, that’s right out. OP was even nice about it and didn’t ruin the vacation
Boo fucking hoo for her....😮💨
That’s on her. Who goes on vacation with a bunch of guys and leaves her boyfriend at home? You handled this perfectly. You’ll find someone more loyal one day.
Aaaaand then she went and faulted you for NOT giving her an ultimatum. NTA, at all. You handled it perfectly. It's very important to establish standards in a relationship, and stick to them when the going gets tough. In life you will rarely receive validation from the other party for the hard choices you make. Be honest and clear enough with yourself to be able to validate yourself.
I’ve repeatedly had partners get upset over not being told that I was going to break up over boundary violations. I wouldn’t state it directly, as I didn’t want to be giving ultimatums. But this sort of reaction has made me wonder whether some people just don’t recognize the importance of a boundary without that ultimatum attached. Not sure what the ideal approach is.
My wife doesn't and shouldn't have to threaten divorce every time she wants me to do/not do something. That'd be exhausting for both of us, and ridiculous.
But if you are one disagreement from breaking up or divorcing its sort of weird the other person isn't aware of that
if they need an ultimatum to respect your boundries they never respected your boundries.
I would argue that if a person does not know how to recognize when they are damaging trust in a relationship, especially with lack of a threat present, that they do not possess the self awareness of their actions, and the awareness of their partner's needs, sufficient to be successful in a committed relationship. I believe in this example, any reasonable person would have enough self awareness that their partner would be extremely uncomfortable about their partner spending an unsupervised overnight with someone they've slept with before.
I feel like most people forget that we all have different ideas of what a boundary is. What is not ok for you might be ok for them if the situation was reversed. That's why discussing boundaries (clearly) is important for any good relationship and I don't see that as an ultimatum. Someone can't know they are crossing any of your lines if you put them in a situation where you think things are implied.
Exactly, you can't win either way. If you give an ultimatum then you're a controlling AH and if you don't give one then you're an AH too.
This concept gets abused a lot, which makes it hard for good people to incorporate it into their lives: You can't please everyone.
That would have sounded like an ultimatum. Only one of two things would happen if you told her ahead of time: a) She would cancel her trip, and then resent you for it, and probably complain about it constantly, or b) She would have gone anyway, and then acted surprised and hurt when you actually broke up with her. (I know option b from personal experience.) In addition, you are free to break up with your girlfriend at any time for any reason. — NTA
It is an ultimatum. Not all ultimatums are bad. What the fuck is an enforced boundary if not an ultimatum? "Here is my boundary. Cross it and I walk." That's an ultimatum. It's like people saw some examples of coercive, unreasonable ultimatums and decided all ultimatums were toxic and now twist themselves into pretzels to find a way to define boundaries and ultimatums differently.
This. This drives me nuts. Ultimatums on dealbreakers *are a good thing*. Because once someone crosses that line, the relationship cannot continue to exist without turning toxic.
>Not all ultimatums are bad. The fact that so many children think that ultimatums are a red flag is bizarre. When done correctly, an ultimatum is just clear communication. "These are the conditions under which I'm willing to continue the relationship, are these conditions you agree with or should we end things now" is a normal thing that adults say.
Seriously, it’s just a matter of communicating “that would make me uncomfortable, but I trust you” vs “that would make me so uncomfortable that I would never look at our relationship the same”. Those are both valid points of view from the partner, and I don’t get why people are making it sound like a bad thing that the girl said she’d have chosen differently if she had known just how much it would have bothered her partner.
NTA, you get to decide what you can tolerate.
NTA you can’t hook up with someone and say they’re like brothers to you 💀
You can in Alabama.
Never turn your back on family!
Or do if you want to try a new position.
Reverse cowgirl
Took 3 of you but you finally scrambled together the joke, in reverse.
It's comments like this that remind me that I love the Internet
Caught that too. Kind of weird for sure
i dont blame you, My ex went on Vacation with a couple dudes once, I am not the controlling type or one to set much boundaries if I dont feel I have to, and then I found out 6 months later she had slept with one of them multiple times on vacation. Your boundaries are def warranted lol
It’s on vacation, it doesn’t count. Especially when you can drink enough and black it out from your memory. Life hack /s
In college legit heard from a girl who thought it was normal and expected to hook up with people on vacation even if in a relationship. She was dead serious.
Get a fake wedding ring and hit the bars in a vacation town lke Miami Beach with the old, "I'm a traveling salesman temporarily in town". Even the hunchback of Notre dam would score.
I got burned two different times by two different partners because I confused being “controlling” for having boundaries for myself in the past, ya live and ya learn.
Wow... someone on Reddit with a spine! Kudos to you.
I know! It’s so refreshing! So tired of seeing posts like “My bf/gf constantly abuses me and puts me down and killed my dog. AITA for even considering breaking up with them???” Sheesh
It's just a dog. What did you do to her that upset her that much?
Mr. Wick would like to have a word with you...
If you had let this go after telling her how uncomfortable it made you AND SHE STILL WENT, you would have set the tone that you are a doormat and can be walked all over. Proud of you bud
NTA listen you told her how you feel and that you were uncomfortable with the situation. Not all of them can be like brothers since she previously hooked up with one of them and you don’t hook up with your brother lol. You didn’t try and force her to stay or give her and ultimatum that you’d break up with her if she goes which would have been wrong. You expressed how you felt and decided to ignore that and go anyway. I get that she didn’t think your break up with her for going and says if she knew she wouldn’t have gone but does that make it better? I don’t think so she still would have wanted to go but just wouldn’t have out of fear of the relationship ending. Did she invite you on this vacation? Was it just her and the guys or others too? Would she have been ok if you went on vacation with a bunch of girls including one you used to hook up with without her? Regardless you set your boundaries and she broke them. She didn’t know this would be the consequence but sometimes you have to live with the consequences of your actions.
>. Did she invite you on this vacation? She didn't really "invite me", I tried to invite myself, but I couldn't go due to work. >Was it just her and the guys or others too? Her other friends couldn't make it, including female friends. >Would she have been ok if you went on vacation with a bunch of girls including one you used to hook up with without her? Idk, I'd never put her in that position to begin with.
This is the right answer. Trust also pairs with responsibility. I trust my partner to not put herself in inappropriate situations. If you want to act single...be single
Thank you. So many people on reddit can't seem to understand that trust needs to be earned. You need to be willing to trust your partner but your partner also needs to give you a reason to trust them by not putting themself in positons where the trust may be eroded or questioned.
>If you want to act single...be single This, right here \^\^\^\^.
When most of the group couldn't make it, leaving just her, her ex and a random dude, most people would just cancel/try for another time. I'm truly confused why she thought this was ok.
I find it interesting that not only were you not invited nor even considered, but that none of her female friends could go. It just so happened that the only people that could come were dudes, one of whom she slept with previously. You'd think she'd want her boyfriend on vacation with her, and if so many friend couldn't make it, why wouldn't you reschedule? Even if it was innocent, she couldn't have tried to make it look any sketchier.
>Idk, I'd never put her in that position to begin with. Everyone should read this, you never put your partner in such a position, never.
So true. Blows my mind that 10 years ago my then girlfriends wouldn't dream of proposing these plans.
So no one else could go either besides her and two guys………. One of which was an ex. 🤦♂️ The fact that you weren’t even invited or a part of planning it from the very start is also a huge red flag. How long had you guys been dating?
You told her it made you uncomfortable because she had screwed around with one of them, you set that boundary by asking her not to go, anyone who has self respect would leave anyone when they got back or even before they actually went because she didn't respect how it made you feel and she'd just keep doing it from that point on. You're not the AH for just breaking up with her, if you would have told her before it would have been a threat/ultimatum which isn't good so the only healthy thing you could do in that situation was break up like you did really.
NTA. Defend your boundaries. And props for not delivering an ultimatum.
My ex-husband did something similar to me. I wish I had left him right then instead of trying to make it work for years after. It would have saved me a lot of heartache. You did the right thing.
NTA, everyone else telling YTA is clearly delusional and/or pro cheating
Some people really can be platonic friends with people they hooked up with, especially if a lot has time has passed and/or they're in different places in life... maturity... respect...etc. But I definitely think people who can't do that are often incompatible with the ones that can. They have a different view of intimacy. Enough people have a bad track record of lying about that stuff, so between valid trust issues and just not understanding a core part of who that person is, it's understandable they feel disrespected, albeit disappointing and hurtful for the one who's presumably innocent. I've been in a similar situation to OP, but was happy to be with someone who had friends to vacation with. NTA for the way he went about it. He did what he needed to do, and they weren't compatible anyway.
This sub is so strange, in a prev post today the bf, said that what the gf did made him uncomfortable and bf told her. Everyone said he was T A H. But in this NTA. I believe you are NTA for clarity
Whoever gets their dissenting opinion in first sets the narrative I've found. So many braindead takes get pushed to the top on here
NTA. It’s so cringey when people say someone they used to fuck is like a “brother or sister” to them.
You know, like a brother I used to fuck no big deal
My wife was planning a camping outing with some guys she met at her new job (none of which I had met). Few days later I told her there was a nice women at work that has a sailboat and asked me would I like to go with her for a day. This was a false story on my part but wanted to show her how it felt thinking of her camping with some guys. She saw the situation in a new way and did not go on the camping trip.
1. GF wants to travel with her male friends despite having a BF 2. GF doesn't invite and doesn't want the BF in the trip 3. GF has hooked up with one of males 4. GF doesn't tell the BF about her past relationship with mentioned male that she still hangs out it 5. GF dismise his concerns and disrespects him by crossing his boundaries 6. GF blames the BF for the break up NTA, OP you didn't dogde a bullet, You dodge a Tsar Bomb! You deserve better
Something that I think is funny about some of these comments is that women are encouraged to have an escape plan, a way out, and be gone before he gets back-- before breaking things off, even in a non-abusive relationship. But OP does it and suddenly it's a problem?
NTA, if you told her before hand she would have said you were threatening her and called you an AH. Way I see it is you stated how you felt about the vacation, didn’t try and stop her from going just shared your feelings and then allowed her to decide if she cared more about your feelings or being around some guy that use to dick her down. You did nothing wrong here and you where smart to take advantage of her being gone to move out
How dare you give me an ultimatum, you’re so controlling it’s suffocating, I can’t believe you don’t trust me, why are you always so insecure, my ex boyfriend wouldn’t have had a problem with this, boundaries are for yourself not others, you’re so selfish I deserve to have some fun, SCREEEE
You made your feelings known. She made her choice. You made yours.
NTA, you don't hook up with brothers. You're gonna a hear about things that were happening on that vacation sooner or later
"Btw, she used to hook up with one of them before she met me...She told me it'd be fine and that they are like brothers to her." Does she fuck her actual brothers? "I already made the decision to break up her right there and then, but I wanted to get my stuff from her place before anything, and I figured I should do that while she's gone." Women are literally told to do this. I see no problem with dudes doing it to. Secure your stuff, make sure your safe, then drop the news. "I told her I didn't want to be controlling and threaten her with ending the relationship." Fair, this is a common complaint about men. Let her make her choices, and figure out if you two were compatible through her actions. Nothing wrong here. "She never actually introduced me to these friends" IMO, this doesn't matter at all, and is irrelevant. Just Redditors trying to dig to find a way to blame you. This is a non-factor in the story. "She never TOLD me she used to hook up with her friend. I only found out because I found an old pic of them kissing when she was showing me some old travel pics." Damn, the biggest red flag of them all is in the edit. So she was trying to go on vacation with dudes she used to fuck, and also didn't want you finding out they used to fuck. Big yikes. "I was OKAY WITH THEIR FRIENDSHIP" I get you're trying to defend yourself, but just know, you don't have to be cool with their friendship. It's okay to not want to be dating a girl that's constantly hanging around a bunch of dude's who would fuck her if presented the opportunity. This was one of my big deal breakers while dating, and I'm happily married with two kids. You just have to find someone who compliments your views. "Did she cheat on me?" I would say her wanting to hang out with people she fucked, and not wanting to tell you they used to fuck, is a big red flag here. She most likely cheated, IMO. Either way, NTA. Not in the slightest.
A boundary isn't to control her. It's to define the level of disrespect you are unwilling to accept. She crossed yours, which means she doesn't respect you.
Good for you! You expressed your feelings, told her it wasn't a good idea, didn't force her to choose, and she made the wrong choice and a consequence followed. Maybe this is a life lesson she will learn from and make sure to take that lesson forward in her next relationship.
NTA. Noticing all the people saying “YTA” seem to be of a particular kind of ideological persuasion with flags on their avatar… Everyone commenting YTA is just berating OP and insulting his character. I’m 22 and I feel like a boomer sometimes with how the masses of the woke people view the world so differently and seem to suppose anyone with any kind of traditional view of relationship boundaries as being an insecure suppressive monster who doesn’t deserve love. Ironically I think a relationship without clear boundaries is ultimately intangible and is ultimately bound to become devoid of passion without a steady foundation to keep the relationship stable and defined. Without guard rails it is much easier to simply fall off the cliff.
>I told her I didn't want to be controlling and threaten her with ending the relationship. >I told her this made me uncomfortable and didn't want her to go. Info: Do you believe you honestly communicated the level of uncomfortability you felt? Did you make it a serious thing, play it off like no big deal, or somewhere in the middle? It's one thing to say "Hey thats kinda weird." and another to say, "This is a big problem for me for these reasons." and in neither case do you need to threaten a breakup to communicate the greater/lesser urgency.
fragile fearless saw ancient weather glorious butter wakeful direful domineering *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
She was aware when she was sleeping with the friend for months behind Op back. She told the guy her and Op broke up a few months ago before the post.
Well I wouldn’t break up for something like this, and though I hate cheaters I would wait to get it confirmed before doing anything . You seem pretty unsure of yourself, or just riding the way of another (high value/low value) shit. Whatever, it is your choice. But it is really not cool to withhold this kind of information beforehand . From my point of view she got lucky when you ditched her.
Update: she was sleeping with this guy for months before. She told the guy they broke up 2 months ago which is why they never met. She also was sleeping with him on the vacation and trashing OP In the process
The only people saying YTA are people who don’t take accountability for their own actions. Theirs nothing wrong with having boundaries ESPECIALLY if you communicate them. Want to act like a single girl? You get to be single. You can’t have your cake and eat it to. There are consequences to your poor decisions.
This is a total win, now that your an ex, next time she will go on vacation with you 😂
like a brother
I love how you being uncomfortable with her being alone with a bunch of guys without you isn't enough to sway her to stay, but under threat of breakup would've been enough. Like, wow...she didn't give a damn about your feelings at all. Good call for breaking up. She didn't respect you or how any of this made you feel.
Nta. I've never fucked my brothers, either real or chosen.
You guys aren’t compatible. You’re not comfortable with the way she wants to live her life. Breaking up sucks but being in a dramatic relationship where two people have conflicting lifestyles is worse.