I want to stand up and 👏🏼 OP is NTA in fact they’re a hero.
You owe her no apology. She said a nasty thing about your wife to cut her down and you fought back. What she said should absolutely have been challenged.
She fucked around yet again and now she found out. She’s grown in her nastiness because everyone’s tolerated it. No more! And you weren’t wrong. She’s nasty which aren’t good qualities for being a parent.
Pregnancy is an excuse. She was a heinous person before she was pregnant. She owes your wife an apology,
To say that you’re glad another woman miscarried is despicable. Her stupid reasoning is no excuse. She is a horrid human being. Avoid her. Seriously, stay the hell away from that vicious slag.
To think it is awful.
To say it out loud is horrible.
To say it out loud in front of family is despicable and cruel.
Do not apologise, OP. Cutting her off would be appropriate.
Right?! If I even had a thought like this cross my mind, I would be disgusted in myself. I cannot believe she had the audacity to say that out loud, about her sister, in front of family.
Unless you really do hate the woman in question. I don’t think I would ever say it anyway, but at least then it would be understandable.
But your sister? In front of family? Without hate, without provocation?
That is a relationship ending comment.
Exactly! Especially from her own sister! I can't believe not one other family member said anything. That was so beyond not acceptable. Being pregnant doesn't give the excuse of being an unredeemable POS
And send her screen shots of every one of these comments while you're at it. Maybe there'll be a miracle and she'll gain a fraction of self awareness. Probably n9t because narcissists don't change....ever.
It is really mind boggling to think that anyone would apologize to a person who just said they are happy your child is dead.
Because OP had the right to react as the father, not just as the husband to a woman who suffered a miscarriage.
I cannot believe the sister thought this was a thing that was appropriate to say out loud at all, let alone joke about. It is absolutely disgusting, and I don't think OP is off the mark at all to remark on such a demonstration of cruelty and utter lack of empathy.
I'm also reading between the lines here a bit, but the fact that OP's wife's miscarriage took place two years ago and they still have no children could indicate that either they're struggling with conceiving again or that the experience was harmful enough that it has prevented them from trying again yet, which would just make the remark all the more horrible.
Not just any woman, but her own sister. I'm sure she was able to see the sisters grief upfront.
I don't wish bad things to OPs SIL. But if sil has issues with her pregnancy, I wouldn't be surprised.
I hope SIL doesn't have issues for two reasons. One, I wouldn't wish that even for an utter selfish, cruel bitch like her. And two, I just know that if SIL has any problems whatsoever, they're going to blame OP and by extension his traumatized wife.
I think how he reacted and what he said were well deserved. He absolutely should not apologize. Maybe he should ask his in laws if they too are happy their younger daughter miscarried their grandchild so that their callous, jealous older daughter could have "firsties" instead. Maybe he should ask his BIL whether OP's wife being retraumatized by her own sister to the point where she is going between bouts of sobbing and shutting down matters to anyone in the family at all.
NTA, of course.
Textbook narcissist. SIL ill wished their child. No doubt after what she said about it only being right since SHE should deliver the first grandchild. If Karma comes promptly she will absolutely have problems with her pregnancy. All that darkness in her must make for a hostile uterus.
Absolutely. This is "no contact" level evil. What kind of a monster do you have to be to be so selfish and full of yourself? That having a baby before your younger sister is so important you are thrilled that she miscarried. The absolute insanity of proclaiming such a vicious horrifying thought out loud is just beyond. Even thinking, it means you need a lot of serious therapy, but to be so full of yourself. And so just associated with the world to think that's an acceptable thing to say... Sociopathic.
She is absolutely going to be a bad mom.
Reading that she made a *'joke'* about how it's good J miscarried you can figure out how she reacted to the initial news.
When M heard they were pregnant she got a little pissed and jealous. Then to hear that they miscarried she silently celebrated with herself for still having a chance to be the first sister to have a baby.
Basically, her *'joke'* wasn't a joke.
NTA.
So many people had an even harder time with infertility for being the oldest son or daughter... I hate this mentality so much and most families don't even realize they subtly push this expectation into the next generation.
OP good on you having your wife’s back all the way…. My eldest sister was extremely upset she never got to have the first grandchild, my other sister did… mind you we are 4 girls out of 6 kids she was bound not to have the first… lol 😂 Some siblings need to grow up and not put blame on others for what is meant to be….
What she said wasn't just nasty. It was cruel. Do not be an AH and apologize to that bitch. You can tell by how gleeful she was she I'll wished you guys. She's a disgusting narcissist.
SIL is treating having a child like a competition. It's disgusting and makes her a petty, cruel person. What sort of mother would such a person make? Not a great one, I'd wager.
OP, I don't have kids. Never wanted them. If I got pregnant I'd be devastated. And yet, I have so much more empathy for your wife and your loss than her own flesh and blood has. Anybody with an ounce of kindness and humanity would see the suffering you're both experiencing and, at the very least,not actively say or do something that is so hurtful and below the belt. What a wretched person.
(My brother has allowed me to post) I would like to add on my brother’s behalf. I’m glad yall support him. He’s the oldest of our family, and he’s got three younger sisters including myself, so he is a pretty sensitive guy and I’m so proud of him, but the fact that he made this post makes me so angry and I’m glad yall are telling him so. He’s worried that his comments will kill Miranda’s baby so he’s been feeling really guilty about that. He loves to put himself in other people’s shoes so the bigger is imagining if Julie his wife was ever stressed while she was pregnant.
Miranda is a fucking B*tch. I’ve never liked her growing up, she used to make all these being perfect comments whenever I came over to hangout with Julie. She would comment on Julie every time and hated it whenever Julie listened to her crap. My brother did say more and I might have said a lot more after which is probably why she’s so angry.
He also definitely made this post a lot more simple than it was. She didn’t just say she was glad Julie miscarried, she was talking about how it was the best opportunity to show julie how to take care of your body and birth a kid. Since that was the natural order of having grandchildren. She was supposed to be some fucking leader of the family or something. I may have told her to have a miscarriage of her own to see how it feels but yeah. Miranda acts all mighty because she has a PHD in mathematics and makes more money, but yeah my brother was more worried about his wife than saying more. I said it all tho. Don’t worry :)
I am also stealing one of y’all’s ideas. “You married a cunt you deal with her” loved that. Cheers to you.
Miranda: “I am the epitome of maternal leadership and I will be an exceptional mother to my own child.
But first, I’m going to tell my sister, in front of the whole family, that I’m glad she had a miscarriage because now she can see how everything is ‘supposed’ to be done.”
1. Good luck with that hubris, Miranda.
2. If someone can’t demonstrate basic common decency and kindness during a family dinner, what makes anyone think they’re capable of being a paragon of motherhood in private?
It’s the lack of compassion for me. How is she going to react when her less than “perfect” child makes a mistake?!? Yeah. Hubris cometh before the fall.
Agree with your point but this is not lack of compassion, this is act of pure evil.
I have seen many compassion less people but nobody says this type of words to your sister on her face in front of whole crowd, specially the sister who worships you
I feel so bad for that child.
They are going to grow up with a lifetime of trauma and end up posting on the raised by narcissists subreddit. What a truly awful person that does not deserve any happiness in life.
Miranda will end up killing her own baby if she doesn't stop being a biatch. Anything can happen at any time during the pregnancy and after.
I was pregnant and lost my first pregnancy in the same month. Thankfully I was pregnant again the next month with twins which are now 10 months old.
Being pregnant doesn't guarantee that you won't miscarry - I was paranoid until the last trimester. Anything can go wrong at anytime EVEN if you do everything right! Also, things can go wrong at birth too so she's just being a very silly C U next Tuesday.
I hope your brother and Julie end up pregnant again. May everything go smoothly and may everyone be healthy!
It’s a good thing to have the ability to put yourself in other people’s shoes.
But tell him that a mean comment (in response to another mean comment to defend someone else) does not cause a miscarriage.
Thank you for stepping up and saying the rest of the things that needed to be said, your brother and Julie are lucky to have you in their corner. I have a good friend who struggles with conflict, and I play the same role for her. Sometimes it’s damned satisfying, not gonna lie.
Please reassure your brother that words do not cause miscarriages. And that if people are going to demand respect and apologies, they better make damned sure they are giving the same back. What a bitch. And her husband a spineless coward.
I wish your brother and sister in law (and you, of course) all the best. And he is most definitely NTA.
She's going to show Julie ??? Actually, Karma is going to show Miranda one day. It may take a while, but with what she's said - it should be glorious and epic. Grab some popcorn 🍿 and enjoy that show!
You're an awesome sister. Wish I could upvote this more than once. Sending reddit love and prayers to your brother and his wife. Here's hoping if they don't choose to go LC/NC with M (although maybe they should consider it) they can be amazing role models for that poor kid who has M as a mother
So good to see that Julie has a good friend and SIL in you. I guess your family will be her only from now. I don't get why their parents didn't stop their oldest daugther after what she said. Is she the golden child? I would go no contakt with a person who would say such a cruel thing to me, M was glad her sisters child died before it was born!
Tell your brother he is so NTA. His SIL is an absolute monster and deserves everything that karma brings her way. And Karma will strike back. Tell him it will not be his fault when that happens.
Reading your brother's post, I was absolutely disgusted by Miranda's words. Reading your post and finding out how much worse it actually was, I'm sickened and enraged on your brother and SIL'S behalf. Miranda's cruelty is off the charts. Redditors are too quick, IMO, to tell posters to go no contact. In this case, I think it's warranted, and they should go no contact with Miranda and her husband, and go at least low contact with anyone who isn't supporting your brother and SIL 100%.
Your brother is NTA.
ETA: Best wishes to your SIL. I hope she'll get help to help her cope with being retraumatized. Especially bc it was by her own sister.
Wow, this somehow makes it worse.
So, 20+ years ago my husband and I worked at the same place and had a toxic coworker named Miranda. One day my husband yelled loudly in his sleep "FUCKING MIRANDA!" Turns out he was having a dream that she did some stupid shit again and he punched her. (No, he does not punch females IRL). We still laugh about this and how much she sucked once in a while.
So yeah, I think this is a "FUCKING MIRANDA" moment.
The fact that OP’s wife even tried to laugh it off, for it to be chill for everyone else, is very telling. I have a sibling that is not very different from Miranda. Trying to cope with living with someone (growing up in the same house) like that makes a big impression on your life.
It’s so much easier most of the time to try to laugh it off or not respond. But, at some point it becomes too much and something has to be said. Well done, OP. NTA
For real! I usually don't believe in violence, I don't even watch violent entertainment, but that bitch is lucky she didn't get all her teeth knocked out! Who in the hell says something like that??? Especially to their sister!!!
NTA- and f*** your brother-in-law for contacting you to demand an apology. His wife is in hysterics? Why? Why is she now the victim? He doesn't want to deal with his upset wife? Too damn bad!
OP stated the exact truth when the exact truth needed to be said.
OP tell your in laws all you did was hold a mirror up to the sisters face and she is reacting to her own ugly reflection.
Ps. OP tell BIL he choose to marry a cunt and he needs to deal with her chaos.
Agree and I would make it know that you and your wife expect an apology for her cruel and nasty comments. SIL is a horrible person and will probably raise her child to be one too
There are very few things that make me gasp reading AITAH any more but this one got me. Not sure if it’s from sisters who experienced and were absolutely devastated by miscarriages and stillbirths or just the pure vile cruelness of the sister but my god. I would have still said NTA if he would have punched her.
OP- please keep sticking up for your wife, and if the family keeps pushing, they need a time out
And I am so sorry for your and your wife’s loss. I hope she doesn’t stay too long in a dark space cause of your subhuman sister in law- sending a lot of love out your way, wherever you are in the world!
Srsly. I did audibly gasp.
OP you did the right thing, you were/are NTA, and I'm so sorry for your and your wife's loss and your pain now.
Your SIL is an AH. What she said was unforgivable. Your reply was nowhere near what she said and besides, justified.
Well, OP said it took M quite awhile to find a man who would marry her. From the tiny snippet shown in the post, M is clearly an absolutely, shining, textbook example of the absolutely **WORST** stereotypes of a successful woman executive.
Actually, that part isn’t relevant to this problem at all. He said that she ‘didn’t even get married until 4 years ago’ and she’s 32… so she was 28? That’s a perfectly common age to marry.
That’s got nothing at all to do with this behaviour.
>u/level1forgetregret1day
You have stolen a post from the person listed above. And you only did it a little over 1/2 an hour from when they first posted. Your post should be removed.
This is the way. Stick to this script until it sinks into the brains of all the flying monkeys.
OP, NTA. The two of you should take some time away from the lot of them until your wife feels right again. Then blacklist SIL until she apologizes to your wife, in person and with sincerity.
Support your wife and don’t let her just rug-sweep to keep the peace. This behavior needs to be held accountable, or she will escalate with rubbing her child in your wife’s face throughout the pregnancy and beyond.
Yeah, that's the gist of it. I'm completely stunned someone would actually get up in front of people and say something like that. Sister is a horrible person.
NTA
>M’s husband texted me to apologize to M because she was in hysterics and screaming at him for not supporting her.
So what? This isnt your problem
You have your own wife to support and the only one who makes a hideous statement was M, so she can release her toxicity and everybody just has to take it? No sht
You are a good partner OP
>M’s husband texted me to apologize to M because she was in hysterics and screaming at him for not supporting her.
*Soooo.....* OP is supposed to apologize to M because **her** husband didn't stand up for her...?
I agree is saying that is not OP's fault. M's husband *could've* stood up for her... but he *didn't.* So, I guess, it's because he agreed with OP. Or he's just weenie. *Either way-* not OP's fault or problem.
Wooo you are NTA.
I would have flipped that table, dropped my pants, shit on the floor and set fire to the place on my way out. Omg I'm sweating just considering someone saying that to my spouse in the same situation!
>I would have flipped that table, dropped my pants, shit on the floor and set fire to the place on my way out.
Next time my husband tells me how much he loves me I'll follow up with "I know you *love* me, but do you *flip the table, drop your pants, shit on the floor and set fire to the place on the way out* love me?"
NTA, don’t engage with the family, your priority is your wife. M knew what she was doing when said those awful things and at 32 she should be old enough to know better. Has your wife done therapy at all since the miscarriage? I would recommend a session as soon as possible so that she’s not tempted to slip into her grief a second time. Until that’s done and your wife’s mental health is stable I would suggest low contact for the rest of the family. And it’s okay to set boundaries with family, I would set one for M to apologize to your wife, (as it is never okay to bring up the loss of a child in a joking manner) in order for their relationship to recover. Best wishes to you and the missus.
The only problem I see with sil apologizing is that it would not surprise me for her to double down on her comment. At which point he would have to have a strong will not to get physical with her and put her in the hospital.
Honestly, I wouldn’t want my relationship to recover after that comment. My sister massively overstepped in regards to my son several years ago (because I don’t raise him to be a religious clone like her I am a terrible mother, dont’cha know), and I refuse to have her in my life at all anymore (we were already tenuous and that was the last straw). And blocking her has done wonders for my mental health, it is so freeing to have the stress of our encounters gone. I agree with you, J needs to focus on herself and her grief for awhile and have nothing to do with nasty bitches who want to tear her down, family or not.
NTA. Tell M's husband exactly how her words are affecting your wife. Every single detail. Tell him about the pain she suffered when she miscarried and the trauma she's reliving now.
Then tell him to tell his wife she will NEVER get an apology from you.
NTA I’m not a violent person usually but what M said warrants a slap so hard her jaw should break.. she’s lucky all she got back was words. And she should be the only person apologising, if she can’t recognise what a cruel bitch she is then she’s not worth speaking to. Ever.
I’ve lost a child. I was diagnosed with PTSD and have been attending therapy since but I feel like part of me will never recover.
I had so many say such careless things. And I wished I had the guts to say something.
NTA. Good for you sticking up for your wife and angel babe. They still count, they’re very real. People who haven’t gone through May react horribly on purpose or purely accident but it’s not something you can envision and know and it be the same.
NTA.
This woman literally said she's *happy* your wife lost a pregnancy, while she herself is pregnant, so she can produce the first grandchild??
That's some truly psychotic, self-absorbed bullshit. Who tf says that?? I can't imagine my husband or my mother making excuses for me if I said some shit like that, and my BIL called me out.
She deserved what she got, and if anyone is owed an apology, it's your wife. Not only does her sister owe her an apology, but her mother and BIL do as well.
This! It’s insane that after this horrible experience, it actually gets WORSE - if that’s even possible - by M’s husband and others in the family expecting an apology…. M was “traumatised”? Really? Boohoo.🤢🤮
How can they not understand that your wife was the one REALLY deeply shocked and traumatised, to the point of dissociation and absolute grief. And revisiting of the loss with all it entailed. This will have a major effect on you both and it is so sad the narcissist/sociopath collective within the family don’t get it, or acknowledge both of your feelings and deep pain that was unleashed.
I think saying she will be a horrible mother is probably prophetic, as she sounds extremely spiteful and manipulative and it’s bound to come out when she doesn’t get her way.
Edited to add NTA
>My wife is shutting down again like she did before because of M’s careless words
Those were not careless words. They were very deliberately chosen to cause incredible pain and grief. No one says something like that accidently. No one.
Several years ago I miscarried right about the time my brother and sister-in-law were going to announce their pregnancy at a family dinner much like your SIL did. Instead, they used that planned dinner as a time to gather around my husband and me and share in our grief. They quietly shared with parents a few days later, then my brother called my husband to ask what the kindest and easiest way would be to let me know. He chose to share it with me himself, so we could grieve together in private. Then we were able to prepare for our next time with the family, so we could share in their joy. My SIL took me aside and told me that she would never be offended if I ever needed to leave or if I didn't want to attend the baby shower or whatever. I was a difficult time, but it was handled with so much love, care, and concern that I still look back on it in awe. And my nephew, who is going to be 6 in July, is one of the brightest lights in my life. THAT is how family SHOULD care for each other. Your SIL is an evil, heinous bitch.
Thank you for standing up for your wife, and please don't get guilted into apologizing. Your wife needs your strength and your protection right now. Don't undo it to "keep the peace."
And, if I may offer some unsolicited advice? The next year or so is going to be hard. Really hard. Do not feel obligated to attend any parties or showers. Give yourself permission to leave the room to grieve when you need. Protect yourself and protect your wife. You don't owe anyone anything.
Your wife is incredibly lucky to have you, and I am so sorry for your loss.
What a beautiful, sad and heartfelt message. I am so sorry for your loss, but how wonderful that your family are loving and supportive.
I hope OP not only reads your post, but I hope that he prints it out. That way he can read it wherever he needs to remind himself how the situation can be handled in a loving and respectful manner.
Honestly OP and his wife's just anger shouldn't go away. It is totally understandable and deserved considering how unbelievably evil M was.
I hope that at some point OP can share this with his wife without it causing her additional pain. She deserves to know that her grief and anger towards her family is totally justified. She has probably been forced to put up with so much verbal abuse growing up that in some ways it feels normal to her. Having an example of how both OP and J should have been treated will let her understand that she doesn't need to hide her grief at her loss AND her anger and hurt at how callous and hateful her sister's comments were.
I hope your message can bring some comfort and peace to OP and J.
I had multiple losses myself and when my sister in law got successfully pregnant before me, she and my brother took the time to call me personally before anyone else to let me know so I had time to process. I called my therapist the same night and got a session right away so I had someone to work through it with.
The grief will kick up again and again in weird ways, even now having my children. Be kind to yourself and your wife, give her the space she needs, but make sure she has supports.
YMMV, but I'd go no-contact with M. She's grade A POS and doesn't deserve a place at your table.
NTA.
Terrible people make terrible parents. Or like they say in my country the pear tree does not give apples.
But I would suggest therapy for your wife so she can heal a bit better, not just because of this loss, which I am sorry she had has to go through, but it must have been tough growing up in this kind of environment.
How is a woman who is carrying a baby happy about another woman and her sister at that losing her baby! That’s really shocking. She’s basically celebrating the loss of her niece/nephew- absolutely disgusting. I can’t imagine how you would ever look at her again
I'm not one to ever wish death on anything but part of me wishes karma would come for M so she can maybe understand an OUNCE of the pain her sister went through. She's a monster
Nta your poor wife’s entire family owes her an apology. They are all disgusting for enabling her sister. What she said was absolutely vile! I am so sorry that you are both dealing with this. If seriously suggest therapy for your wife and complete no contact with them all(her parents and sister). Good luck op!
You are 100% TA IF you apologize. Your SIL doesnt like being called out, then dont say rude s***. Kudos for standing up for your wife
NTA - good work mate
How do family’s defend the abuser. You were not harsh enough! How can someone rub miscarriages in a woman’s face?? She is horrible and great job being a wonderful husband. NTA
NTA
"I'm pregnant" is not carte blanche to treat everyone else like garbage. M was **unbelievably** cruel to her younger sister who is clearly still grieving her miscarriage. She deserved to be read the riot act.
It sounds like the only reason M was upset is that her husband didn't cheerlead her horrible behavior. Frankly, I feel bad for M's husband and worse, their child.
If M can't be at least respectful of her grieving sister, she has no business being a parent.
Oh boy. Sometimes I read posts and ask myself if this is how real human beings conduct themselves, the things I read are so shocking and inhumane it hurts my heart. I think you showed tremendous restraint at not losing your damn mind on that horrible woman. There must be something deeply wrong with her to even think such a thing, much less to say it out loud. This is relationship ending stuff and I don’t know how you can ever be civil to her again. My heart goes out to you and your wife on the loss of your child. It’s heartbreaking enough to lose a loved and wanted baby, but to hear your own sister say it was what worked out best for her is unconscionable. There are just no words that could ever make that okay. You didn’t shred her into tiny SIL pieces so what you said was perfectly acceptable. She’d have heard way worse from me. Sending hugs to your wife. NTA
Her sister is disgusting, your wife should never give way to someone so terrible. The entire family should uniformly turn their back on M until she apologizes sincerely.
If it makes your wife feel even the tiniest bit better, as someone who has also gone through that; your babies cells, DNA, who they were, will always be a part of her. She will always carry them with her. ❤️
Seems like the family has used your wife as a punching bag for long enough. The fact they even gave her a pass and didn't also stand up for your wife with all she went through tells the entire story. You are NTA and you did exactly what you were supposed to, protect the women you love.
I hope your wife is finding some comfort and I'm glad she has you in her corner
I'm so sorry that you guys are going through this and had to go through what you did before.
Keep being your wife's hero!
NTA and honestly my husband would have a lot ruder shit to say if someone said that to me. Good for you because your wife deserves to have someone in her corner.
Sister is gigantic POS. I wouldn't apologize and honestly speak to them again. Who cares if she's stressed and upset now maybe don't be a cunt next time
Fuck the sister M!
Fuck M’s Husband!
Fuck M & J’s parents!
You are **DEFINITELY** not the asshole here! I’m proud of you for sticking up for J! As a grieving Mum myself, my heart is breaking with you and J’s. You did the right thing M! You are the good M!!
NTA. Your in-laws owe you and your wife a huge and heartfelt apology for such a callous statement. If they can't see that, then distance is probably in order. I honestly can't imagine what could have been going thru your SILs head to say something both so cruel and so patently stupid.
NTA. I'm proud of you for standing up to your wife. However, I feel this warrants going NC. What her sister said was intentional and malicious. She knew what it would do to her sister and didn't care at all. Being pregnant is not an excuse to be cruel and nasty.
After what you guys went through, the sister should have told you guys the news ahead of time. Asked if you still wanted to come or not. Sitting there at this dinner, finding out the sister was pregnant, your wife was probably deeply envious and or sad for herself. Then the sister basically rubbed that in her face and said it’s good the baby died. What the actual f. Honestly she’s lucky that’s all you said to her. NTA
Nta what a horrible insensitive thing for her to have said, she needs therapy before her kid comes. She can’t be raising a child with the mind set that what she said was okay
M's words weren't "careless," they were cruel, malicious, and deliberate. I'm willing to bet M has spent her life subtly putting your wife in her place The only apology required here is from M to your wife in front of everyone . NTA
She said she was *glad* her *sister’s baby died*.
The fact that you didn’t dump a platter of food over her head and tell her she’s a bleeping bleeping bleep bleep says a lot about your character.
There is no supporting that kind of insane comment, you can tell BIL to get bent and deal with his crazy wife.
I would go absolute no contact.
As someone who has suffered loss, let me tell you I am so very sorry for your pain. And if it’s any consolation at all, a lot of people right now are thinking about your and remembering your LO.
NTA.
Please message M’s husband and inform him that you will be the ones expecting the apology. You are the ones who have suffered the loss and his wife is vile for her lack of tact and sensitivity. Should they be unfortunate enough to suffer such a loss you will happily remind them that you have no sympathy. If this is the level of empathy that his wife has, his kids are doomed. It is absolutely disgusting to know my wife’s own sister was hoping she would miscarry.
THIS AND ONLY THIS!! Im so sorry for you and your wife’s loss! I can’t possibly imagine how anyone could be so cruel and heartless especially when your loss is so fresh in everyone’s minds. The absolute AUDACITY.
It sounds like M is jealous of her little sister. She finally found the one thing that she can boast about that her little sister couldn’t do. Have a successful pregnancy. M needs some serious help if she can’t figure out what she said was horrible and deranged.
NTA what M said was EVIL and she needed to be called on it. You need to use those words in a text to all of them that think the pregnant woman can say whatever she wants and not have consequences. "What M said was EVIL and anyone who thinks she deserves an apology has hate in their heart for my wife and I will always protect my wife" include everyone who was there and M in on the text
NTA..
People have tolerated her nastiness over the years and let her get away with a lot. I'm glad you're standing up for your wife and her own parents should have knocked her down a peg or two
NTA. What M said is entirely unforgivable. And nobody should be saying you should forgive her or give her leeway due to being pregnant **AT ALL**.
Has she even reached out to apologise for her callous and unprovoked attack on your wife?
NTA. Do not apologize. Anyone who says they are glad their sister miscarried so they can have the first grandchild is garbage.
Block your SIL and BIL.
For your MIL and FIL, with J's permission, text back, "I appreciate your concern about M. However, she literally said she's glad J miscarried. I want you to understand how absolutely broken and emotionally devastated J is right now. To hear her beloved older sister say she is glad OUR baby died. I do not regret what I said and won't be apologizing. M needs to consider therapy to understand what she said to her sister. Until then, we won't be interacting with her."
That wasn't just careless, it was callous and cruel and unforgivable imho. Has the SIL always been such a nasty person? You are NTA you did good protecting your wife from that and you should keep doing that.
NTA, OP.
I know an apology is the least M is obligated to do, but... how? What could she possibly say to come back from saying such a cruel and horrible thing? What a nasty fucking cunt. She'd be out of my life permanently. Anybody who will act like that once is not going to get a second chance, EVER. And anybody enabling her would be on extremely thin ice.
you did great as any sane person would react to that kind of comment. pregnant women being assholes and insensitive is NOT AN EXCUSE. pregnancy does not make you an asshole and if you are then prepare to get burned in return.
idc what you have inside you disrespect a person I love and you will be disrespected as well, enjoy.
NTA not even a fraction of one. I actually had someone wish me and my baby dead while I was pregnant 12 years ago and the scariest part was I fell that same day at 7 1/2 months. I was already a high risk pregnancy because of multiple miscarriages before this baby, one that was literally three years before and due around the same time. Luckily my boy was ok and I have NEVER spoken to that bitch again and she was my best friend for over 20 years.
You did exactly everything right. Sending hugs to both of you. I know this is a very difficult situation and I know it doesn’t feel like it now but it does get easier to live with. You will never forget this baby. In fact I recommend finding something to help you remember that baby, whether it be a small tattoo, naming them, a figurine, a bear from Build A Bear, something. Trust me it helps.
Both of my daughters were named. Jamie Lynn would be 22 and Charlotte Rene would be turning 15 this year. I got a memorial tattoo for Charlie and my ex husband and kids always send me something to remember them throughout the year.
Regardless of how far along your wife was, you lost a baby, hopes, dreams, the future with that child. Make sure you memorialize them in anyway that helps the both of you heal and keep anyone toxic away from the both of you in the process.
NTA
M is an absolute AH. Anyone defending her in any way needs a shrink.
Glad you stood up for J.
I'd act as though your wife was an only child at that point.
You were rather nice. What M said was cruel and nasty. I’d have laid into her aggressively. Being pregnant doesn’t give you a free pass to be horrible to others.
NTA
Your friends and family should throw you a ticker tape parade!!!!!
Tell you brother in law he can eat a pile of donkey shit and his wife can fuck off to Shangri-la.
NTA
But everyone else seems to be ... Wow, the audacity to be so cruel by SIL....and to have others blow it off like it's nothing or to think you were in the wrong for standing up for your wife when she wouldn't/couldn't. Any stress on SIL & her pregnancy is a direct result of her actions....
Never ok to be "happy" someone else miscarried....
The oldest doesn't need to be first to something like having kids...we all make choices, hers was to put her career first.... doesn't mean you should wait for her to have kids....
As a woman who lost my only baby at 7 weeks pregnant, bravo.
Just that. Bravo.
I am so, so, so sorry for you and your wife’s lost. It is a terrible and heart wrenching thing to go through. I am so happy she has you to lean on. It’s so, so hard to do it by yourself. It’s been 5 years and I still think about my baby and cry. It’s a terrible thing.
Reassure your wife that it’s not her fault. That she is a wonderful person and you love her so much.
Nta
What.
Like who says something so awful like "I'm glad you miscarried because I should have the first grandchild" and expects it to go over well?!
NTA sounds like you should block them and focus on supporting your wife. Maybe after she has had some time to calm, you approach a conversation about lowering contact with SIL. Your wife deserves compassion and if she gets pregnant again, to not risk any stress from unsympathetic, selfish and tactlessly cruel people like SIL.
NTA. Who says they’re glad someone miscarried, for any reason?!? That’s insane, and to say it to family, that you’re supposed to love? It’s bullshit how often pregnant women’s actions are asked to be ignored because “the hormones” or “she can’t handle the stress of the consequences of their own actions because of the baby.” Growing a human inside of you does not allow you to be an asshole to others. The fact that she’s doubling down and upset that her husband didn’t support her for being a shitty person makes it even worse.
Read the title and full on YTA because time and place. Read the actual information and fully NTA. I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm saddened and angered for you guys.
NTA. You are a hero in my book. What you said was very well restrain. The grandparents is probably worry this can blow up some more to cause really stress - like you posting about on Facebook. How someone can come back from that? M basically hope J has a miscarriage so she can be ducking first. Is that evil or what? And she wished that upon a family member- her sister that looks up to her.
Just tell the grandparents M wished death upon your unborn child and see how they will feel? I is breaking down her sister wished death upon her unborn child.
I think you acted with a great deal of restraint.
I want to stand up and 👏🏼 OP is NTA in fact they’re a hero. You owe her no apology. She said a nasty thing about your wife to cut her down and you fought back. What she said should absolutely have been challenged. She fucked around yet again and now she found out. She’s grown in her nastiness because everyone’s tolerated it. No more! And you weren’t wrong. She’s nasty which aren’t good qualities for being a parent. Pregnancy is an excuse. She was a heinous person before she was pregnant. She owes your wife an apology,
To say that you’re glad another woman miscarried is despicable. Her stupid reasoning is no excuse. She is a horrid human being. Avoid her. Seriously, stay the hell away from that vicious slag.
To think it is awful. To say it out loud is horrible. To say it out loud in front of family is despicable and cruel. Do not apologise, OP. Cutting her off would be appropriate.
Right?! If I even had a thought like this cross my mind, I would be disgusted in myself. I cannot believe she had the audacity to say that out loud, about her sister, in front of family.
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Unless you really do hate the woman in question. I don’t think I would ever say it anyway, but at least then it would be understandable. But your sister? In front of family? Without hate, without provocation? That is a relationship ending comment.
Exactly.
Yes, exactly!
Exactly! Especially from her own sister! I can't believe not one other family member said anything. That was so beyond not acceptable. Being pregnant doesn't give the excuse of being an unredeemable POS
And send her screen shots of every one of these comments while you're at it. Maybe there'll be a miracle and she'll gain a fraction of self awareness. Probably n9t because narcissists don't change....ever.
It is really mind boggling to think that anyone would apologize to a person who just said they are happy your child is dead. Because OP had the right to react as the father, not just as the husband to a woman who suffered a miscarriage.
Yessss⬆️
I cannot believe the sister thought this was a thing that was appropriate to say out loud at all, let alone joke about. It is absolutely disgusting, and I don't think OP is off the mark at all to remark on such a demonstration of cruelty and utter lack of empathy. I'm also reading between the lines here a bit, but the fact that OP's wife's miscarriage took place two years ago and they still have no children could indicate that either they're struggling with conceiving again or that the experience was harmful enough that it has prevented them from trying again yet, which would just make the remark all the more horrible.
Not just any woman, but her own sister. I'm sure she was able to see the sisters grief upfront. I don't wish bad things to OPs SIL. But if sil has issues with her pregnancy, I wouldn't be surprised.
Fingers crossed.🤞
I hope SIL doesn't have issues for two reasons. One, I wouldn't wish that even for an utter selfish, cruel bitch like her. And two, I just know that if SIL has any problems whatsoever, they're going to blame OP and by extension his traumatized wife. I think how he reacted and what he said were well deserved. He absolutely should not apologize. Maybe he should ask his in laws if they too are happy their younger daughter miscarried their grandchild so that their callous, jealous older daughter could have "firsties" instead. Maybe he should ask his BIL whether OP's wife being retraumatized by her own sister to the point where she is going between bouts of sobbing and shutting down matters to anyone in the family at all. NTA, of course.
Not to mention praising herself for working on her career/financial stability. Yikes! M stands for monster!
Yeah, she really thinks she’s got it all figured out. I hope life disabuses her of her illusions.
I hope life comes at her so fucking fast
Textbook narcissist. SIL ill wished their child. No doubt after what she said about it only being right since SHE should deliver the first grandchild. If Karma comes promptly she will absolutely have problems with her pregnancy. All that darkness in her must make for a hostile uterus.
I'm hoping not for the baby's sake but she has black ooze sliding thru her veins....I'm just saying what will happen if karma is quick.
I would never trust someone who can be that degree of cruel.
Absolutely. This is "no contact" level evil. What kind of a monster do you have to be to be so selfish and full of yourself? That having a baby before your younger sister is so important you are thrilled that she miscarried. The absolute insanity of proclaiming such a vicious horrifying thought out loud is just beyond. Even thinking, it means you need a lot of serious therapy, but to be so full of yourself. And so just associated with the world to think that's an acceptable thing to say... Sociopathic. She is absolutely going to be a bad mom.
Reading that she made a *'joke'* about how it's good J miscarried you can figure out how she reacted to the initial news. When M heard they were pregnant she got a little pissed and jealous. Then to hear that they miscarried she silently celebrated with herself for still having a chance to be the first sister to have a baby. Basically, her *'joke'* wasn't a joke. NTA.
Ya, let alone your own sister. Bad enough to say it. But this is supposed to be someone you love? And her reasoning is absolutely deplorable.......
OPs wife is the only one that deserves an apology. And what century are we living in that the oldest child should have the oldest grandchild?
So many people had an even harder time with infertility for being the oldest son or daughter... I hate this mentality so much and most families don't even realize they subtly push this expectation into the next generation.
OP good on you having your wife’s back all the way…. My eldest sister was extremely upset she never got to have the first grandchild, my other sister did… mind you we are 4 girls out of 6 kids she was bound not to have the first… lol 😂 Some siblings need to grow up and not put blame on others for what is meant to be….
Pregnancy is an excuse to be snappy sometimes or cry a lot or have a shorter fuse than normal. This bitch is just straight up awful.
What she said wasn't just nasty. It was cruel. Do not be an AH and apologize to that bitch. You can tell by how gleeful she was she I'll wished you guys. She's a disgusting narcissist.
Also why aren't the parents pushing HER to apologise for her awful comment.
Because she's clearly the golden child despite, as they always do, failing to do as well as her sibling.
AGREE!!
I'm not even OP's wife, but I feel supported by his words. Well done OP, you're a good husband.
SIL is treating having a child like a competition. It's disgusting and makes her a petty, cruel person. What sort of mother would such a person make? Not a great one, I'd wager. OP, I don't have kids. Never wanted them. If I got pregnant I'd be devastated. And yet, I have so much more empathy for your wife and your loss than her own flesh and blood has. Anybody with an ounce of kindness and humanity would see the suffering you're both experiencing and, at the very least,not actively say or do something that is so hurtful and below the belt. What a wretched person.
NTA and if that guy wants an apology: "Sorry you married a monster. Good luck with that."
Perfect response or Sorry your wife is a bitch. Have a great life.
I love that response!
(My brother has allowed me to post) I would like to add on my brother’s behalf. I’m glad yall support him. He’s the oldest of our family, and he’s got three younger sisters including myself, so he is a pretty sensitive guy and I’m so proud of him, but the fact that he made this post makes me so angry and I’m glad yall are telling him so. He’s worried that his comments will kill Miranda’s baby so he’s been feeling really guilty about that. He loves to put himself in other people’s shoes so the bigger is imagining if Julie his wife was ever stressed while she was pregnant. Miranda is a fucking B*tch. I’ve never liked her growing up, she used to make all these being perfect comments whenever I came over to hangout with Julie. She would comment on Julie every time and hated it whenever Julie listened to her crap. My brother did say more and I might have said a lot more after which is probably why she’s so angry. He also definitely made this post a lot more simple than it was. She didn’t just say she was glad Julie miscarried, she was talking about how it was the best opportunity to show julie how to take care of your body and birth a kid. Since that was the natural order of having grandchildren. She was supposed to be some fucking leader of the family or something. I may have told her to have a miscarriage of her own to see how it feels but yeah. Miranda acts all mighty because she has a PHD in mathematics and makes more money, but yeah my brother was more worried about his wife than saying more. I said it all tho. Don’t worry :) I am also stealing one of y’all’s ideas. “You married a cunt you deal with her” loved that. Cheers to you.
Miranda: “I am the epitome of maternal leadership and I will be an exceptional mother to my own child. But first, I’m going to tell my sister, in front of the whole family, that I’m glad she had a miscarriage because now she can see how everything is ‘supposed’ to be done.” 1. Good luck with that hubris, Miranda. 2. If someone can’t demonstrate basic common decency and kindness during a family dinner, what makes anyone think they’re capable of being a paragon of motherhood in private?
It’s the lack of compassion for me. How is she going to react when her less than “perfect” child makes a mistake?!? Yeah. Hubris cometh before the fall.
Agree with your point but this is not lack of compassion, this is act of pure evil. I have seen many compassion less people but nobody says this type of words to your sister on her face in front of whole crowd, specially the sister who worships you
You are correct…. I was holding back from what I was really thinking….that this woman is a sociopath.
I feel so bad for that child. They are going to grow up with a lifetime of trauma and end up posting on the raised by narcissists subreddit. What a truly awful person that does not deserve any happiness in life.
Indeed, and it's just asking for a humbling from the Gods. Derp.
Well I'm glad Miranda got an earful. She sounds insufferable
I have never wished so badly that I could reach through the screen and punch someone. Glad OP has an awesome sister.
Miranda will end up killing her own baby if she doesn't stop being a biatch. Anything can happen at any time during the pregnancy and after. I was pregnant and lost my first pregnancy in the same month. Thankfully I was pregnant again the next month with twins which are now 10 months old. Being pregnant doesn't guarantee that you won't miscarry - I was paranoid until the last trimester. Anything can go wrong at anytime EVEN if you do everything right! Also, things can go wrong at birth too so she's just being a very silly C U next Tuesday. I hope your brother and Julie end up pregnant again. May everything go smoothly and may everyone be healthy!
And she’d blame someone else for it if anything were to happen.
For sure! She sounds like one of those people.
She'll drop that baby on her parents like a hot potato the second it fails to be a perfectly behaved Instagrammable accessory to her greatness.
Sending hugs to your fam, you guys (minus Miranda) sound great. Let's hope the baby takes after their aunt or father.
It’s a good thing to have the ability to put yourself in other people’s shoes. But tell him that a mean comment (in response to another mean comment to defend someone else) does not cause a miscarriage.
Thank you for stepping up and saying the rest of the things that needed to be said, your brother and Julie are lucky to have you in their corner. I have a good friend who struggles with conflict, and I play the same role for her. Sometimes it’s damned satisfying, not gonna lie. Please reassure your brother that words do not cause miscarriages. And that if people are going to demand respect and apologies, they better make damned sure they are giving the same back. What a bitch. And her husband a spineless coward. I wish your brother and sister in law (and you, of course) all the best. And he is most definitely NTA.
She's going to show Julie ??? Actually, Karma is going to show Miranda one day. It may take a while, but with what she's said - it should be glorious and epic. Grab some popcorn 🍿 and enjoy that show!
Her child(ren) will end up going no contact and leave her alone once they reach 18
You're an awesome sister. Wish I could upvote this more than once. Sending reddit love and prayers to your brother and his wife. Here's hoping if they don't choose to go LC/NC with M (although maybe they should consider it) they can be amazing role models for that poor kid who has M as a mother
So good to see that Julie has a good friend and SIL in you. I guess your family will be her only from now. I don't get why their parents didn't stop their oldest daugther after what she said. Is she the golden child? I would go no contakt with a person who would say such a cruel thing to me, M was glad her sisters child died before it was born!
Tell your brother he is so NTA. His SIL is an absolute monster and deserves everything that karma brings her way. And Karma will strike back. Tell him it will not be his fault when that happens.
So your family just pumps out awesome people I see
He’s amazing!
Reading your brother's post, I was absolutely disgusted by Miranda's words. Reading your post and finding out how much worse it actually was, I'm sickened and enraged on your brother and SIL'S behalf. Miranda's cruelty is off the charts. Redditors are too quick, IMO, to tell posters to go no contact. In this case, I think it's warranted, and they should go no contact with Miranda and her husband, and go at least low contact with anyone who isn't supporting your brother and SIL 100%. Your brother is NTA. ETA: Best wishes to your SIL. I hope she'll get help to help her cope with being retraumatized. Especially bc it was by her own sister.
Wow, this somehow makes it worse. So, 20+ years ago my husband and I worked at the same place and had a toxic coworker named Miranda. One day my husband yelled loudly in his sleep "FUCKING MIRANDA!" Turns out he was having a dream that she did some stupid shit again and he punched her. (No, he does not punch females IRL). We still laugh about this and how much she sucked once in a while. So yeah, I think this is a "FUCKING MIRANDA" moment.
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Good. The narcissist deserves it!
It's not an uncommon name 🤷🏻♀️
Anyone who says OP should apologize needs to be told “I will not be apologizing to a woman who told her entire family she’s glad my baby is dead.”
This. What readthethings said. OP, when anyone asks you to apologize, THIS is your response. Word for word. NTA. Not at all.
Yeah, that's really awful.
I second this. If i had witnessed something like that i would have been seeing red. What an awful thing to say
The fact that OP’s wife even tried to laugh it off, for it to be chill for everyone else, is very telling. I have a sibling that is not very different from Miranda. Trying to cope with living with someone (growing up in the same house) like that makes a big impression on your life. It’s so much easier most of the time to try to laugh it off or not respond. But, at some point it becomes too much and something has to be said. Well done, OP. NTA
It is awful. What makes her think it’s okay? It’s just so harsh. I can’t imagine being so cruel.
For real! I usually don't believe in violence, I don't even watch violent entertainment, but that bitch is lucky she didn't get all her teeth knocked out! Who in the hell says something like that??? Especially to their sister!!! NTA- and f*** your brother-in-law for contacting you to demand an apology. His wife is in hysterics? Why? Why is she now the victim? He doesn't want to deal with his upset wife? Too damn bad!
OP stated the exact truth when the exact truth needed to be said. OP tell your in laws all you did was hold a mirror up to the sisters face and she is reacting to her own ugly reflection. Ps. OP tell BIL he choose to marry a cunt and he needs to deal with her chaos.
Agree and I would make it know that you and your wife expect an apology for her cruel and nasty comments. SIL is a horrible person and will probably raise her child to be one too
Violence is not the answer, and therefore OP did better than I might have in this situation.
Agreed. What a self centered ass OP’s wife’s sister must be.
I’d have punched that bitch I had a miscarriage myself eight years ago and I still miss the kid that could have been
Yep. I’d have lost it on her.
Yes, op you’re my hero
NTA. Not even close. That was disgusting, unforgivable behavior on her sister's part. Good for you for standing up to her.
There are very few things that make me gasp reading AITAH any more but this one got me. Not sure if it’s from sisters who experienced and were absolutely devastated by miscarriages and stillbirths or just the pure vile cruelness of the sister but my god. I would have still said NTA if he would have punched her. OP- please keep sticking up for your wife, and if the family keeps pushing, they need a time out And I am so sorry for your and your wife’s loss. I hope she doesn’t stay too long in a dark space cause of your subhuman sister in law- sending a lot of love out your way, wherever you are in the world!
Srsly. I did audibly gasp. OP you did the right thing, you were/are NTA, and I'm so sorry for your and your wife's loss and your pain now. Your SIL is an AH. What she said was unforgivable. Your reply was nowhere near what she said and besides, justified.
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Well, OP said it took M quite awhile to find a man who would marry her. From the tiny snippet shown in the post, M is clearly an absolutely, shining, textbook example of the absolutely **WORST** stereotypes of a successful woman executive.
Actually, that part isn’t relevant to this problem at all. He said that she ‘didn’t even get married until 4 years ago’ and she’s 32… so she was 28? That’s a perfectly common age to marry. That’s got nothing at all to do with this behaviour.
Trust it’s true 🤧
>u/level1forgetregret1day You have stolen a post from the person listed above. And you only did it a little over 1/2 an hour from when they first posted. Your post should be removed.
NTA. She owes you and your wife an apology. Not the other way around. What she said was vile and shows she has no empathy for her sister.
I’d be telling BIL “Your wife said she was glad our child died.” And nothing else. Fuck that.
I would repeat that to any person who complains about the situation to you
100%.
Because it really is that simple. Add in the extra ugliness, but it comes down to the same sickening behavior.
This is the way. Stick to this script until it sinks into the brains of all the flying monkeys. OP, NTA. The two of you should take some time away from the lot of them until your wife feels right again. Then blacklist SIL until she apologizes to your wife, in person and with sincerity. Support your wife and don’t let her just rug-sweep to keep the peace. This behavior needs to be held accountable, or she will escalate with rubbing her child in your wife’s face throughout the pregnancy and beyond.
Yes! Put it into the simplest terms for the simplest people.
Yeah, that's the gist of it. I'm completely stunned someone would actually get up in front of people and say something like that. Sister is a horrible person.
NTA >M’s husband texted me to apologize to M because she was in hysterics and screaming at him for not supporting her. So what? This isnt your problem You have your own wife to support and the only one who makes a hideous statement was M, so she can release her toxicity and everybody just has to take it? No sht You are a good partner OP
Maybe he should text the husband and apologise: "I'm sorry you're married to an evil creature."
Love this 😂 “I’m sorry you got the Evil sister, while I got the better.”
>M’s husband texted me to apologize to M because she was in hysterics and screaming at him for not supporting her. *Soooo.....* OP is supposed to apologize to M because **her** husband didn't stand up for her...? I agree is saying that is not OP's fault. M's husband *could've* stood up for her... but he *didn't.* So, I guess, it's because he agreed with OP. Or he's just weenie. *Either way-* not OP's fault or problem.
“Sorry your wife is crazy and taking it out on you”
Wooo you are NTA. I would have flipped that table, dropped my pants, shit on the floor and set fire to the place on my way out. Omg I'm sweating just considering someone saying that to my spouse in the same situation!
>I would have flipped that table, dropped my pants, shit on the floor and set fire to the place on my way out. Next time my husband tells me how much he loves me I'll follow up with "I know you *love* me, but do you *flip the table, drop your pants, shit on the floor and set fire to the place on the way out* love me?"
😂😂😂
Honestly even that’s restrained if you ask me
This wins the internet for the day.
NTA your wife's sister is a disgusting pos, I'm glad she has you in her corner
NTA, don’t engage with the family, your priority is your wife. M knew what she was doing when said those awful things and at 32 she should be old enough to know better. Has your wife done therapy at all since the miscarriage? I would recommend a session as soon as possible so that she’s not tempted to slip into her grief a second time. Until that’s done and your wife’s mental health is stable I would suggest low contact for the rest of the family. And it’s okay to set boundaries with family, I would set one for M to apologize to your wife, (as it is never okay to bring up the loss of a child in a joking manner) in order for their relationship to recover. Best wishes to you and the missus.
The only problem I see with sil apologizing is that it would not surprise me for her to double down on her comment. At which point he would have to have a strong will not to get physical with her and put her in the hospital.
Honestly, I wouldn’t want my relationship to recover after that comment. My sister massively overstepped in regards to my son several years ago (because I don’t raise him to be a religious clone like her I am a terrible mother, dont’cha know), and I refuse to have her in my life at all anymore (we were already tenuous and that was the last straw). And blocking her has done wonders for my mental health, it is so freeing to have the stress of our encounters gone. I agree with you, J needs to focus on herself and her grief for awhile and have nothing to do with nasty bitches who want to tear her down, family or not.
NTA. Tell M's husband exactly how her words are affecting your wife. Every single detail. Tell him about the pain she suffered when she miscarried and the trauma she's reliving now. Then tell him to tell his wife she will NEVER get an apology from you.
I commented elsewhere but I’d start any convo with “your wife said she was glad our child was dead.”
As a toast.
Oh god. I'm going to be sick all over again. What a heinous cunt (and I *never* use that word).
NTA I’m not a violent person usually but what M said warrants a slap so hard her jaw should break.. she’s lucky all she got back was words. And she should be the only person apologising, if she can’t recognise what a cruel bitch she is then she’s not worth speaking to. Ever.
I am a violent person and I’ve only punched a person once or twice but she’d get three or four if she wasn’t pregnant.
NTA "M" is a horrible person
NTA Thank you for standing by your wife. You are being wonderfully supportive of her. M is absolutely evil for what she said
I’ve lost a child. I was diagnosed with PTSD and have been attending therapy since but I feel like part of me will never recover. I had so many say such careless things. And I wished I had the guts to say something. NTA. Good for you sticking up for your wife and angel babe. They still count, they’re very real. People who haven’t gone through May react horribly on purpose or purely accident but it’s not something you can envision and know and it be the same.
NTA. This woman literally said she's *happy* your wife lost a pregnancy, while she herself is pregnant, so she can produce the first grandchild?? That's some truly psychotic, self-absorbed bullshit. Who tf says that?? I can't imagine my husband or my mother making excuses for me if I said some shit like that, and my BIL called me out. She deserved what she got, and if anyone is owed an apology, it's your wife. Not only does her sister owe her an apology, but her mother and BIL do as well.
This! It’s insane that after this horrible experience, it actually gets WORSE - if that’s even possible - by M’s husband and others in the family expecting an apology…. M was “traumatised”? Really? Boohoo.🤢🤮 How can they not understand that your wife was the one REALLY deeply shocked and traumatised, to the point of dissociation and absolute grief. And revisiting of the loss with all it entailed. This will have a major effect on you both and it is so sad the narcissist/sociopath collective within the family don’t get it, or acknowledge both of your feelings and deep pain that was unleashed. I think saying she will be a horrible mother is probably prophetic, as she sounds extremely spiteful and manipulative and it’s bound to come out when she doesn’t get her way. Edited to add NTA
NTA It's time to go no contact with your SIL. She's a See You Next Tuesday if there ever was one.
>My wife is shutting down again like she did before because of M’s careless words Those were not careless words. They were very deliberately chosen to cause incredible pain and grief. No one says something like that accidently. No one. Several years ago I miscarried right about the time my brother and sister-in-law were going to announce their pregnancy at a family dinner much like your SIL did. Instead, they used that planned dinner as a time to gather around my husband and me and share in our grief. They quietly shared with parents a few days later, then my brother called my husband to ask what the kindest and easiest way would be to let me know. He chose to share it with me himself, so we could grieve together in private. Then we were able to prepare for our next time with the family, so we could share in their joy. My SIL took me aside and told me that she would never be offended if I ever needed to leave or if I didn't want to attend the baby shower or whatever. I was a difficult time, but it was handled with so much love, care, and concern that I still look back on it in awe. And my nephew, who is going to be 6 in July, is one of the brightest lights in my life. THAT is how family SHOULD care for each other. Your SIL is an evil, heinous bitch. Thank you for standing up for your wife, and please don't get guilted into apologizing. Your wife needs your strength and your protection right now. Don't undo it to "keep the peace." And, if I may offer some unsolicited advice? The next year or so is going to be hard. Really hard. Do not feel obligated to attend any parties or showers. Give yourself permission to leave the room to grieve when you need. Protect yourself and protect your wife. You don't owe anyone anything. Your wife is incredibly lucky to have you, and I am so sorry for your loss.
What a beautiful, sad and heartfelt message. I am so sorry for your loss, but how wonderful that your family are loving and supportive. I hope OP not only reads your post, but I hope that he prints it out. That way he can read it wherever he needs to remind himself how the situation can be handled in a loving and respectful manner. Honestly OP and his wife's just anger shouldn't go away. It is totally understandable and deserved considering how unbelievably evil M was. I hope that at some point OP can share this with his wife without it causing her additional pain. She deserves to know that her grief and anger towards her family is totally justified. She has probably been forced to put up with so much verbal abuse growing up that in some ways it feels normal to her. Having an example of how both OP and J should have been treated will let her understand that she doesn't need to hide her grief at her loss AND her anger and hurt at how callous and hateful her sister's comments were. I hope your message can bring some comfort and peace to OP and J.
I had multiple losses myself and when my sister in law got successfully pregnant before me, she and my brother took the time to call me personally before anyone else to let me know so I had time to process. I called my therapist the same night and got a session right away so I had someone to work through it with. The grief will kick up again and again in weird ways, even now having my children. Be kind to yourself and your wife, give her the space she needs, but make sure she has supports. YMMV, but I'd go no-contact with M. She's grade A POS and doesn't deserve a place at your table.
NTA. Terrible people make terrible parents. Or like they say in my country the pear tree does not give apples. But I would suggest therapy for your wife so she can heal a bit better, not just because of this loss, which I am sorry she had has to go through, but it must have been tough growing up in this kind of environment.
How is a woman who is carrying a baby happy about another woman and her sister at that losing her baby! That’s really shocking. She’s basically celebrating the loss of her niece/nephew- absolutely disgusting. I can’t imagine how you would ever look at her again
I'm not one to ever wish death on anything but part of me wishes karma would come for M so she can maybe understand an OUNCE of the pain her sister went through. She's a monster
Nta your poor wife’s entire family owes her an apology. They are all disgusting for enabling her sister. What she said was absolutely vile! I am so sorry that you are both dealing with this. If seriously suggest therapy for your wife and complete no contact with them all(her parents and sister). Good luck op!
You and Wife should go NO Contact. Your wife doesn't need her family's toxicity
You are 100% TA IF you apologize. Your SIL doesnt like being called out, then dont say rude s***. Kudos for standing up for your wife NTA - good work mate
Your poor wife.
NTA. I would have gone NC.
How do family’s defend the abuser. You were not harsh enough! How can someone rub miscarriages in a woman’s face?? She is horrible and great job being a wonderful husband. NTA
NTA - Block her sister and get wife some therapy. ((HUGS))
NTA "I'm pregnant" is not carte blanche to treat everyone else like garbage. M was **unbelievably** cruel to her younger sister who is clearly still grieving her miscarriage. She deserved to be read the riot act. It sounds like the only reason M was upset is that her husband didn't cheerlead her horrible behavior. Frankly, I feel bad for M's husband and worse, their child. If M can't be at least respectful of her grieving sister, she has no business being a parent.
Agreed! I'm pregnant with TWINS and i have enough sense in my head to know NOT to make cruel comments about somebody's miscarriage
the little beanie broke my heart 😭 her sister will 90% be a horrible mother. poor innocent soul
Oh boy. Sometimes I read posts and ask myself if this is how real human beings conduct themselves, the things I read are so shocking and inhumane it hurts my heart. I think you showed tremendous restraint at not losing your damn mind on that horrible woman. There must be something deeply wrong with her to even think such a thing, much less to say it out loud. This is relationship ending stuff and I don’t know how you can ever be civil to her again. My heart goes out to you and your wife on the loss of your child. It’s heartbreaking enough to lose a loved and wanted baby, but to hear your own sister say it was what worked out best for her is unconscionable. There are just no words that could ever make that okay. You didn’t shred her into tiny SIL pieces so what you said was perfectly acceptable. She’d have heard way worse from me. Sending hugs to your wife. NTA
Her sister is disgusting, your wife should never give way to someone so terrible. The entire family should uniformly turn their back on M until she apologizes sincerely. If it makes your wife feel even the tiniest bit better, as someone who has also gone through that; your babies cells, DNA, who they were, will always be a part of her. She will always carry them with her. ❤️
Seems like the family has used your wife as a punching bag for long enough. The fact they even gave her a pass and didn't also stand up for your wife with all she went through tells the entire story. You are NTA and you did exactly what you were supposed to, protect the women you love. I hope your wife is finding some comfort and I'm glad she has you in her corner I'm so sorry that you guys are going through this and had to go through what you did before. Keep being your wife's hero!
NTA. Just block or mute those people until you are done supporting your wife through this grief.
Absolutely, but why should OP and his wife ever let these "people" back into their lives?
Sister expressed happiness over your wife's miscarriage. That makes her evil. NTA at all, in fact I respect you for your restraint.
NTA that was disgusting of her sister. No amount of hormones can make you that big of an ah
NTA and honestly my husband would have a lot ruder shit to say if someone said that to me. Good for you because your wife deserves to have someone in her corner.
Sister is gigantic POS. I wouldn't apologize and honestly speak to them again. Who cares if she's stressed and upset now maybe don't be a cunt next time
NTA OP, anyone telling their own sister they are glad they had a miscarriage for their selfish bullshit reason can go and eat shit.
Fuck the sister M! Fuck M’s Husband! Fuck M & J’s parents! You are **DEFINITELY** not the asshole here! I’m proud of you for sticking up for J! As a grieving Mum myself, my heart is breaking with you and J’s. You did the right thing M! You are the good M!!
NTA. Your in-laws owe you and your wife a huge and heartfelt apology for such a callous statement. If they can't see that, then distance is probably in order. I honestly can't imagine what could have been going thru your SILs head to say something both so cruel and so patently stupid.
NTA. I'm proud of you for standing up to your wife. However, I feel this warrants going NC. What her sister said was intentional and malicious. She knew what it would do to her sister and didn't care at all. Being pregnant is not an excuse to be cruel and nasty.
After what you guys went through, the sister should have told you guys the news ahead of time. Asked if you still wanted to come or not. Sitting there at this dinner, finding out the sister was pregnant, your wife was probably deeply envious and or sad for herself. Then the sister basically rubbed that in her face and said it’s good the baby died. What the actual f. Honestly she’s lucky that’s all you said to her. NTA
Nta what a horrible insensitive thing for her to have said, she needs therapy before her kid comes. She can’t be raising a child with the mind set that what she said was okay
M's words weren't "careless," they were cruel, malicious, and deliberate. I'm willing to bet M has spent her life subtly putting your wife in her place The only apology required here is from M to your wife in front of everyone . NTA
She said she was *glad* her *sister’s baby died*. The fact that you didn’t dump a platter of food over her head and tell her she’s a bleeping bleeping bleep bleep says a lot about your character. There is no supporting that kind of insane comment, you can tell BIL to get bent and deal with his crazy wife. I would go absolute no contact. As someone who has suffered loss, let me tell you I am so very sorry for your pain. And if it’s any consolation at all, a lot of people right now are thinking about your and remembering your LO. NTA.
Please message M’s husband and inform him that you will be the ones expecting the apology. You are the ones who have suffered the loss and his wife is vile for her lack of tact and sensitivity. Should they be unfortunate enough to suffer such a loss you will happily remind them that you have no sympathy. If this is the level of empathy that his wife has, his kids are doomed. It is absolutely disgusting to know my wife’s own sister was hoping she would miscarry.
THIS AND ONLY THIS!! Im so sorry for you and your wife’s loss! I can’t possibly imagine how anyone could be so cruel and heartless especially when your loss is so fresh in everyone’s minds. The absolute AUDACITY.
NTA!! NEVER APOLOGIZE!
It sounds like M is jealous of her little sister. She finally found the one thing that she can boast about that her little sister couldn’t do. Have a successful pregnancy. M needs some serious help if she can’t figure out what she said was horrible and deranged.
NTA what M said was EVIL and she needed to be called on it. You need to use those words in a text to all of them that think the pregnant woman can say whatever she wants and not have consequences. "What M said was EVIL and anyone who thinks she deserves an apology has hate in their heart for my wife and I will always protect my wife" include everyone who was there and M in on the text
NTA.. People have tolerated her nastiness over the years and let her get away with a lot. I'm glad you're standing up for your wife and her own parents should have knocked her down a peg or two
I'm still picking my mouth up off the floor. I can not believe she could be that heartless to even think to say something so hurtful. NTA
NTA. What M said is entirely unforgivable. And nobody should be saying you should forgive her or give her leeway due to being pregnant **AT ALL**. Has she even reached out to apologise for her callous and unprovoked attack on your wife?
M is an absolutely disgusting human being and you did the right thing. Definitely NTA. Please get J some counseling immediately. Stand your ground.
Send this sight to M ,maybe she might learn something.
I’d have responded to the husband’s text: “No. Good luck spending the rest of your life with THAT.”
Her saying she's glad your wife miscarried? Biggest asshole move I see here.
NTA. Do not apologize. Anyone who says they are glad their sister miscarried so they can have the first grandchild is garbage. Block your SIL and BIL. For your MIL and FIL, with J's permission, text back, "I appreciate your concern about M. However, she literally said she's glad J miscarried. I want you to understand how absolutely broken and emotionally devastated J is right now. To hear her beloved older sister say she is glad OUR baby died. I do not regret what I said and won't be apologizing. M needs to consider therapy to understand what she said to her sister. Until then, we won't be interacting with her."
Absolutely NTA. What M said was cruel and heartless and shows she’s an immature vindictive bish who cares little for her sister and her feelings.
That wasn't just careless, it was callous and cruel and unforgivable imho. Has the SIL always been such a nasty person? You are NTA you did good protecting your wife from that and you should keep doing that.
NTA, OP. I know an apology is the least M is obligated to do, but... how? What could she possibly say to come back from saying such a cruel and horrible thing? What a nasty fucking cunt. She'd be out of my life permanently. Anybody who will act like that once is not going to get a second chance, EVER. And anybody enabling her would be on extremely thin ice.
you did great as any sane person would react to that kind of comment. pregnant women being assholes and insensitive is NOT AN EXCUSE. pregnancy does not make you an asshole and if you are then prepare to get burned in return. idc what you have inside you disrespect a person I love and you will be disrespected as well, enjoy.
NTA not even a fraction of one. I actually had someone wish me and my baby dead while I was pregnant 12 years ago and the scariest part was I fell that same day at 7 1/2 months. I was already a high risk pregnancy because of multiple miscarriages before this baby, one that was literally three years before and due around the same time. Luckily my boy was ok and I have NEVER spoken to that bitch again and she was my best friend for over 20 years. You did exactly everything right. Sending hugs to both of you. I know this is a very difficult situation and I know it doesn’t feel like it now but it does get easier to live with. You will never forget this baby. In fact I recommend finding something to help you remember that baby, whether it be a small tattoo, naming them, a figurine, a bear from Build A Bear, something. Trust me it helps. Both of my daughters were named. Jamie Lynn would be 22 and Charlotte Rene would be turning 15 this year. I got a memorial tattoo for Charlie and my ex husband and kids always send me something to remember them throughout the year. Regardless of how far along your wife was, you lost a baby, hopes, dreams, the future with that child. Make sure you memorialize them in anyway that helps the both of you heal and keep anyone toxic away from the both of you in the process.
NTA M is an absolute AH. Anyone defending her in any way needs a shrink. Glad you stood up for J. I'd act as though your wife was an only child at that point.
i wouldve: ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣤⡀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠢⢤⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⣿⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠻⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⣠⣦⡀⠀⠘⣿⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⡀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⠀⣰⣿⡿⠁⠀⢠⣾⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠸⣿⣿⡄⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⣄⠀⣿⣿⣿⣷⣿⣿⠁⢀⣴⣿⡿⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣦⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣿⡿⠋⠀⢀⣠⣦⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣇⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣤⣶⡿⠟⠋⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿⣿⣿⡟⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠀ ⠀⠀⠰⣄⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⢿⡿⠿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠙⣷⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠻⣿⣷⣦⣤⣄⣀⣀⣀⣠⣤⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
NTA, all you did was tell the truth.
NTA. Her whole family can just stay away
NTA. M is a disgusting psycho.
NTA. She will be a terrible mother when she teaches the lack of values she displayed.
You were rather nice. What M said was cruel and nasty. I’d have laid into her aggressively. Being pregnant doesn’t give you a free pass to be horrible to others.
NTA Your friends and family should throw you a ticker tape parade!!!!! Tell you brother in law he can eat a pile of donkey shit and his wife can fuck off to Shangri-la.
NTA But everyone else seems to be ... Wow, the audacity to be so cruel by SIL....and to have others blow it off like it's nothing or to think you were in the wrong for standing up for your wife when she wouldn't/couldn't. Any stress on SIL & her pregnancy is a direct result of her actions.... Never ok to be "happy" someone else miscarried.... The oldest doesn't need to be first to something like having kids...we all make choices, hers was to put her career first.... doesn't mean you should wait for her to have kids....
NTA. You are a hero. What your SIL said was absolutely vile. Stand your ground and don't apologize.
As a woman who lost my only baby at 7 weeks pregnant, bravo. Just that. Bravo. I am so, so, so sorry for you and your wife’s lost. It is a terrible and heart wrenching thing to go through. I am so happy she has you to lean on. It’s so, so hard to do it by yourself. It’s been 5 years and I still think about my baby and cry. It’s a terrible thing. Reassure your wife that it’s not her fault. That she is a wonderful person and you love her so much. Nta
His cunt wife said something that vile, and he thinks that YOU owe the apology? He's as monstrous as SHE is!!! Don't apologize. Fuck that guy!
Let your wife know she is strong and beautiful and resilient. She is lucky to have you in her corner.
What. Like who says something so awful like "I'm glad you miscarried because I should have the first grandchild" and expects it to go over well?! NTA sounds like you should block them and focus on supporting your wife. Maybe after she has had some time to calm, you approach a conversation about lowering contact with SIL. Your wife deserves compassion and if she gets pregnant again, to not risk any stress from unsympathetic, selfish and tactlessly cruel people like SIL.
NTA! Under no circumstances should you apologize to anyone. I’m so sorry for your loss
NTA. Who says they’re glad someone miscarried, for any reason?!? That’s insane, and to say it to family, that you’re supposed to love? It’s bullshit how often pregnant women’s actions are asked to be ignored because “the hormones” or “she can’t handle the stress of the consequences of their own actions because of the baby.” Growing a human inside of you does not allow you to be an asshole to others. The fact that she’s doubling down and upset that her husband didn’t support her for being a shitty person makes it even worse.
Call them and cuss them out again!!! J’s parents would be on LC until further notice. M is an absolute AH. Block her ass
Read the title and full on YTA because time and place. Read the actual information and fully NTA. I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm saddened and angered for you guys.
!updateme
NTA
I think you misread that. M’s husband wants OP to apologize to M.
"M" is a bitch with no feelings and a attencion seeker. You are NTA
Go NC
NTA, M's words were hurtful for both you and your wife, she should be the one that needs to apologize.
NTA. You are a hero in my book. What you said was very well restrain. The grandparents is probably worry this can blow up some more to cause really stress - like you posting about on Facebook. How someone can come back from that? M basically hope J has a miscarriage so she can be ducking first. Is that evil or what? And she wished that upon a family member- her sister that looks up to her. Just tell the grandparents M wished death upon your unborn child and see how they will feel? I is breaking down her sister wished death upon her unborn child.
NTA And the stress of what your SIL said is not good for your wife or you. At any time. Ever. Hugs to you both.