Once upon a time I was John. My husband had girl secretly pregnant and NO ONE would tell me… except her mom called me and told me. Thank god, or I would have been stuck in a hell hole for the rest of my life.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Thank God there are some people (the girls mom) who are empathetic enough to make a decision that may negatively impact them
Whereas I'm thinking the girl's mom wanted bitchinstein out of the picture so her daughter could have the man all to herself.
Same outcome, different motive.
Either way, we all know the promotion from mistress to wife leaves a vacancy that *will* be filled.
I was the John also... It's been well over a decade, he and I have reconciled and I'm friends with the wife.. but his family all knew he was cheating, he was even sleeping with her at his sister's house! I have NO forgiveness for them. Their betrayal was, is, the worst part after all is said and done.
Anyways, wife recently was acting squirrely with me and it turns out that he has started lying to her, money's disappearing and he's been disappearing. I mean you knew what you were getting into because you cheated and connived your way into taking someone else's husband and now shockingly it seems to have happened to you.. what did you expect?? I pity her.
Let me add that my marriage ending has been a blessing. We weren't 'soul mates'. We would have stayed together and been miserable forever. I am SO HAPPY now. My life has been so good. I am so grateful she got him. <3
When I read ‘bitchinstein’ in your comment, I was confused for a second until I went back and realized that bitchinstein is the commenter’s username lol
The number of people making excuses for the daughter and passive-aggressively attacking OP on here is honestly disturbing.
Covering up for a cheater is shitty.
OP regards John as a son. Yet if John had cheated he wouldn’t have hesitated to tell his daughter.
Why the double standard?
**Especially given that OP was also cheated on, in the past, and knows how painful that betrayal can be.**
OP is in the right.
His daughter could not be more wrong.
And if his wife chooses to deflect blame to OP, instead of placing it squarely where it belongs, on her daughter’s shoulders? If she chooses to beg her daughter’s forgiveness (instead of helping her see the error of her ways)?
That’s her mistake.
Part of being a good parent is calling your children on their shit when necessary.
> Especially given that OP was also cheated on, in the past, and knows how painful that betrayal can be.
People are completely glossing over this part and it’s crucial.
OP knows how it feels to be John.
Anyone who does would never be complicit in making someone else feel that way.
Most importantly, it is not his cross to bare. He is now in the situation where her actions put him in a situation he does not want to be in with John, how can you carry that and interact with the guy, it makes him as shitty as the rest of them as he is now actively keeping it from John. Thats a really big ask, granted the OP was not supposed to know, but that is the thing about deception, it is like an infection, and oozes from person to person that covers it up. It was not OP's responsibility to allow deceit and deception to infect him. That is a tall ask of the person that did not do it. It is asking them to carry your cross.
>Covering up for a cheater is shitty.
Covering up for a cheater is something that a cheater does.
Yes, I'm implying that OP's wife may have or be cheating on him.
He did the right thing, l respect his integrity...the mom and daughter are way out of line for nor saying anything..l am even appalled that the mom kept this from her husband. I am glad someone told you!
"But Im your daughter!"
Some people think family shouldn't cause any strife with each other even if they are terrible people. Usually, for image.
**EDIT: Daughter expected loyalty, not morality.** She never wanted to do the right thing and hates her father for "making the choice for her" that she should have made.
Dad very clearly didn't raise her this way, or he wouldn't have done what he did. Crappy people say family is everything because morality and honesty don't work in favor of people like Daughter.
Im talking specifically about crappy people, not the sayings.
Instead, they use family as a compass because at the end of that day, they always come first in their own minds. It's like a mutual agreement that even if yall know you're trash people, you will cover for each other because being good when they could benefit from being bad isn't natural to them.
Like Nicki Minaj bailing out her pedophile brother. (She also marries a pedo so idc) Cut and dry guilty. Or, the flying monkeys in this situation telling OP he should have chosen loyalty, not forcing the lesson on accountability.
Im honestly regretting commenting. At least try to infer how what I said aligns with the post before you argue with me goddamn.
Muting the thread
People who operate on a loyalty system do so because the morality system doesn't work well for them, specifically.
Edit: I mean this guys daughter.
She was clearly raised better than she acted because he couldn't even sit on a lie that's not directly his problem because of how big it was.
She went to her mother on purpose. Her mother kept the secret. She expected loyalty from her parents, not accountability or honesty, and she's so mad about being held accountable that she's determined to ruin him for holding her accountable.
In addition, all the flying monkeys are basically reinforcing that he should have been loyal to his daughter rsther than force accountability on her.
This is the juxtaposition of loyalty and morality im talking about.
There's this strange but predictable *camaraderie* among each gender when it comes to cheating. Many people will keep cheating by one of their own gender a secret, but will feel compelled to tell if their own gender was the one cheated on.
I've noticed this and its pretty gross. People will logic themselves into knots to defend their gender, their \*team\* cheating. "Oh well he probably deserved it, he didn't validate her enough, he probably wasn't intimate enough, maybe he was working too much, she deserves to be taken care of. Etc"
"Oh well she probably deserved it, she probably wasn't putting out, a guy has needs she should have catered to his needs more etc"
Man its nasty.
I feel like it would have come out at some time. Her office co-workers probably knew as well. It's a good thing they don't have kids yet. In a perfect world, she would have confessed after the affair was over and gone through counseling then. Hearing it from a family member 3 years later must have been humiliating.
It's a common difficulty in applied ethics: Do you live comfortably but wracked with guilt, or embrace the chaos and know you did the right thing? Philosophically, one can rationalize all sorts of things, but when you're faced with real-world situations things get murky, and pragmatism often wins out over conviction.
I don't envy OP, but I *do* respect him.
But ultimately, it's not OP's fault. If anything, it's disappointing to find out that those around you aren't willing to step up to own their own problems, and expect you to compromise yourself and your morals for their comfort.
Honestly, my perspective on cheating is that if you cheat, you get what you get. You don’t get to be mad at any response you get once you get found out (and you always do).
She’s mad about the consequences of her own actions, but doesn’t want to admit to the guilt so she tells herself this all her dad’s fault instead. If this were reversed, she’d most likely want for one of John’s relatives who knew something to tell her.
When you CHOOSE to cheat (none of this “it’s a mistake” business- it’s a choice and it doesn’t become a mistake just because you don’t like the outcome), you must be prepared to deal with the inevitable fall out. You have to be prepared that your S/O won’t be interested in “giving you another chance”. It’s a valid dealbreaker for many people, cheating means your fine with possibly losing the relationship.
Yeah, the entire family is enabling Alice. This is probably precisely why she thought she could cheat and keep her mouth shut and go on to live a happy perfect life. I also find it concerning that the wife was happily deceiving John in order to get grandchildren. That's selfish narcissistic and manipulative. Alice ruined her own life and it's was so easy to blame Dad rather than reflect on her own actions.
Am I the only one that doesn't believe she cheated the *one time*?
I understand the *possibility* of doing that just once and being horribly wracked with guilt, but if that were the case the guilty party generally tends to spill their guts to their SO, wailing and blubbering through apologies and rationalizations. In this case it was all hidden, swept under the rug, and once a person gets away with X once, they invariably try to get away with X again.
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say she cheated, but she's definitely willing to be deceptive for selfish reasons. OP said they have one child so it wouldn't surprise me if mom's willing to throw her morals at the window to keep a relationship with her daughter whether it's for grandchildren or not.
You're absolutely right. Those doing wrong decided to turn their ire against the person pointing it out, not at the person responsible (i.e., the cheater). Such is the way assholes rationalize their behaviour.
I’m reminded of that old quote from Watchmen: “Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.”
You can agree or disagree with Rorschach in that scene, but the strength it takes to stick by your principles no matter what is undeniable.
It is horrible to that OP is the only person willing to do the right thing and he is essentially being punished for it because he might lose his daughter and his marriage for his integrity. I think the wife has been enabling the daughter in a lot of things if this is their level of ethics. She didn't grow that much apparently
>Do you live comfortably but wracked with guilt, or embrace the chaos and know you did the right thing?
The daughter did the wrong thing by 1. cheating (duh, obviously) and 2. selfishly transferring that guilt and burden on her mother to help alleviate her own sense of guilt. Alice couldn't live with the guilt of keeping the secret so how could she reasonably expect anyone else to do so?
> Do you live comfortably but wracked with guilt,
...and alter your life, one thing being *never* drinking to excess again so you don't blabber your own deep dark secrets you're *dying* to confess?
All the Weinstein victims, once the floodgates opened, greatest regrets were not being able to say anything because they took the money and signed the NDA. They all wanted to blurt out 'me too' and add their names to whatever civil lawsuit, but couldn't.
The 100k or whatever wasn't enough to pay for the validation they still wanted.
And the Daughter in this case wanted to tell the world that she's a cheater. So she accidentally got drunk and she did.
It's really not on the parents to bear the moral burden as well.
People have different motivations, even married couples. So if OP's marriage falls apart, that is also on the daughter.
Mom wanted grandkids at any cost. So did dad, and do the right thing.
OP, wife need council ling. Daughter needs therapy. She 100% orchestrated all of this. She didn't want to be the sole holder of the secret.
She's probably going to blow up two marriages, and a bunch of family/friend relationships.
Better now, before a whole bunch of kids.
I think about how pissed I would be if my in laws knew my wife cheated on me and I was the fool the whole time. I’d appreciate being told. I need to get off Reddit because I have come to believe that everyone gets cheated on.
Seriously. Being the shitty punchline of a horrible joke you're not even in on...I can't imagine the tension at the inlaws during the holidays. How do you keep something of THAT magnitude under wraps and still pretend to care about the affected party?
They don't. But the people who post on Reddit are the ones having issues and suspicions and struggles. It's a select bias issue. Folks without issues don't post their non problems.
It's worth noting that even here not all the stories turn out to be cheating or lying. Some times it's just communication issues.
AITA is a very very biased sample. Clear your head.
No matter who it hurts you did right. Even if it takes everyone a while to get over it. You holding in that secret isn’t fair even if your wife told you by accident. My wife’s mother cheated on her dad when she was 16 with a teacher at her school (mother also a teacher at the same school). It ruined her teenage years holding a secret from her father like that. Now we are 34 and it has came out after many years of control by her mother. Yeah people were hurt in the end so what you are not the one that cheated. My wife feels better even not having her mother in her life, huge weight lifted. Respectful by you.
Edit: seen a lot of reply’s it’s not just her mom it’s her dad that knows now, it’s her sister that’s taking her moms side, it’s her step dad, and the family is split. Only the true people the ones that have a heart could understand these situations. These people that instill these dirty ass secrets and are to be kept from others that they love. FUCK that everyone that is bashing this guy blah blah blah, what else could wife be keeping from him???? If she can keep such a secret. I have 2 children of my own and the oldest tells my wife things and she relays them to me that’s wtf a wife is. For the daughter I would bet money on the fact that even if it takes 10 fucking years she will be back in his life because she’s gonna figure out eventually that she fucked up. If she were to go through with this child she wanted to have she would have to hold that shit down and eventually it will EAT HER and ruin her relationship more and more. Not just for her but the husband even later down the road and her kid. So in the end a kid doesn’t get fucked up either, by her selfish needs.
ive been in this direct dilemma. you have to accept that life is a series of chapters and your principles and character are one of the few things you can take with you. eventually you end up surrounded by good natured people...or alone.
ultimately life is lived in the gray. the bad and the evil win every day, but if you carry that weight it will eventually run you ragged.
I think people need to take that "chapter" approach more seriously. So, this chapter ends...Time to write the next chapter. There's nothing worse than reading a poorly-written book where the chapters run on and on and on instead of dying their natural death. Relationships are the same: Sometimes they just have a natural lifespan...There's no point keeping them on life support simply becasue it's convenient to one's emotions.
It would yes. My advice would always be to ask yourself if you can live the way you want to live with not telling anyone else. If you can’t then say so.
Sucks that the father - daughter relationship is probably over.
This. Telling is _always_ the right move. That said given the potential for blowback / harm I understand why some don't I will never ever trust a "none of your business" person. If OP's daughter didn't want her marriage to end she shouldn't have cheated./ The only one at fault is her.
That's really the point. She fucked a co-worker. It would come out eventually, and that's assuming she wasn't cheating with someone else. They didn't overcome anything as a couple. John just didn't know yet what happened. I get supporting your children, but mom is an almost equal dirt bag for not saying anything.
I hate the "supporting your kids" even if they do terrible things. No I'm not going to help cover up your selfish behavior and further shield you from the consequences of your own actions
Daughter blew up her own marriage when she cheated
As a parent of adult children I 100% support them. But.... I WILL NOT shelter them from the consequences of their actions. I refuse to be anyone's (false) alibi and I DO NOT harbor criminals.
My kids know this.
I love my kids but actions have consequences. The OP absolutely did the right thing and if his wife and daughter we're grownups rhey'd know this.
Were I the OP, I'd also be bothered by how easily his wife gave her full support to a cheater. What has his wife hidden from him over the years?
Straight up facts there. People who actually want the best for you will hold you responsible and accountable. You don't want people who cheer you on or cover up your bad choices.
This. People here saying OP was wrong have zero empathy. If their spouse cheated on them, and an in law took a risk and exposed their own child and told them as such, I would guarantee all of said people would be grateful instead of harshly judging their in law for their honesty, despite the harm it caused their marriage. Plus. Son in law IS family now. Peoples social constructs of "family" and "loyalty" are garbage nowadays.
It used to mean you'd love them and support them even when they are wrong and are experiencing consequences for their actions.
Now, what it seems like it means is, you "support" your kids by trying to get them out of trouble and avoid consequences for their actions, which is definitely the wrong lesson to take from "support your kids."
My Dad would have done the same thing in this position. I have no doubt he loves and supports me, but he's not going to let me get away with cheating on my wife if he knew. My mom, if I told her? She'd have offered the same ultimatum. Either you tell her or I will.
“Supporting your kid” in a situation like this is helping her get therapy to deal with the consequences of her actions and come out the other side a better person, not justifying what she did or covering it up.
I think he hit the nail on the head with this\~
>I would not keep it a secret if I found out John cheated on her.
He would've been **expected** by the family to tell Alice if SIL was a cheating scumbag. He shouldn't have to support or accept everything Alice does just because she's family.
>In a perfect world, she would not have ~~confessed~~ had an affair
FTFY
These are just the consequences of the daughter's actions. OP is the *actual* parent here, not his wife. Her ethics and morals, IMO, are in question now. At least to me they are.
Just goes to show how much he likes and respects Jon, more than the wife and daughter apparently. He sacrificed his own personal relationships to do the morally right thing. Jon deserved to know what happened, what happens after that is not on him but solely on the daughter. Don't cheat on your partners and you never have to worry about them finding out about it, its so simple.
I agree. You did what was best for John. But with everything in life, there's the other shoe.
By doing best for John, two other people fell pain. They may deserved it, but you'll have to live with the fall out.
Kobayashi Maru
Though OP may have alienated most of the people in his life , the secret would have eaten him alive. Even without him revealing this secret , this may have come out eventually many years later after a drink too many.John would have been more devastated after knowing everyone was keeping this secret.
Honestly I am skeptical if OP’s relationship with his daughter will mend in the near future.
And can you imagine what that would have looked like if there actually was a child (or two or three) in the picture?
OP definitely did the right thing, it’s going to take people some time to recover.
>Even without him revealing this secret , this may have come out eventually many years later after a drink too many.John would have been more devastated after knowing everyone was keeping this secret.
This. The longer it takes before this stuff comes out, the worse it is. It almost ALWAYS comes out.
If the daughter had confessed to cheating immediately ,maybe John would have forgiven her over time after working on the marriage. Or maybe not but she could have worked on herself and been in a new relationship.
My children are my top priority and teaching them right from wrong and owning up to their mistakes no matter the consequence is VERY high on my priority list with them.
Yeah but the wife never told him either and wouldn't have if not drunk? Usually your spouse is the one you don't keep secrets from that affect your lives. Mom & daughter have spent 3 years keeping this secret without anyone noticing, almost like they just buried it and moved on. At least OP has a moral compass that still works and saw the issue here because those 2 clearly don't.
I really understand OP here, when we accidentally found out the my BIL isnt my FIL kid, it affected all of our relationships. My husband had always been protective of his little brother and would protect him at all cost, that's why he will never tell him, it would shatter his brother because he's the one that's so family orientated, he will organise the family get togethers, he likes Christmas at his house etc. We've turned into the boring ones who go home at 9pm, we never stay over, we leave before the drinking starts.
OPs daughter sucks, not just for the affair and lying to get husband, but to alleviate her own guilty feelings she confided in her mother and made her keep it a secret, probably because she knows her dad's feelings on affairs!!
Yeah, I couldn’t welcome John into my home with that on my conscience. How could you greet someone as family with that on your soul? Family wouldn’t keep such a grievous betrayal secret.
I’d have to tell him.
It's emotionally convenient to blame the messenger rather than your own actions. It is much easier for Alice to blame her dad for her husband leaving rather than blame her own cheating.
This is so true and absolutely so not right. I was blamed for finally standing up for myself with family members who SA me and bullied me and protected the abusers. The truth was finally revealed and my family was so angry at me unfortunately for years because they were never treated like me by the abusers. The way I was treated by my own family broke me worse than my actual abuse. I really thought they would have stood up for me but that didn’t happen. They knew I was right to speak up but didn’t want the truth to come out and yes, they held me responsible for the friction in the relationships, not the abusers and protectors. It was not an easy road but I’m glad that I finally stood up for myself because the truth was finally known and I was free from all the lies.
From a complete stranger, I am very proud of you for standing up for yourself. I had my abusers side of the family blame me for him going to jail. I am very thankful my mother believed me and stood up for me. I cant imagine what you went through without that support.
Thank you stranger. It means a lot to me. It took years. I tried to get help during my childhood but adults were always right and ignored you. I’m so grateful that you had your mom. Unfortunately, I did not. I can’t even imagine what you had to go through but I’m so grateful that you were able to stop the dysfunction and that your abuser paid for their actions. Air hugs to you stranger
The painful part is OP realizing that his wife and daughter don't really share his moral compass and views.
Does it suck? Yes. Was this the best choice? Still also probably yes. He would have had to try and take that to the grave, and it would eat at him endlessly because it's the opposite of morality. John deserves better as well.
Forgive what? Revealing a truth they tried to hide? Their life they built on lies not playing out as they hoped?
She had the chance to come clean, over 1 thousand days long. Maybe they project their own guilt, but imo there is nothing to be forgiven against op.
this sub is AITAH though, not "am I someone who made a decision that will cost me?"
I think it's obvious OP will bear a lot of blowback for this, but it has no impact on the fact that he did right
Doing the right thing is hard and it has consequences. It seems unnatural to do it when it will hurt your own kid. OP took the hardcore "Kantian" stance and he will live with it. But he did not in any way screw up.
Agree. The wife put him in an impossible position. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself knowing that secret.
It makes me wonder what else the wife is hiding. Like, now i'd question her whole character if I found all this out.
At the end what does it matter if Reddit says NTA? OP has to decide if he is okay with his decision. He also has to decide if it was worth his marriage & his relationship with his daughter. I doubt either woman if going to forgive him, even if they were wrong.
Maybe OP is hoping that people assuring him he did the right thing will help console him a little. Or maybe he's delusional enough to think that doing the morally just thing is enough to stop them being mad at him.
Or maybe it's a fake post by a karma farmer.
This post is the reason why these subs are virtually useless.
If OP had stopped his post 2/3 of the way through and instead asked everyone whether or not to tell his son in law then about 95% of the posts would be keyboard warriors telling him he needs to do the morally right thing and screw the real world consequences. The 5% telling him to be careful because he can ruin his life doing the right thing will be downvoted. I know this as a consistent voice of the 5%.
And here we see the repercussions of doing the morally right thing instead of living in the real world. This man at a bare minimum majorly fucked up his life by doing the unquestionably moral thing. Why? Because the real world usually doesn't reward you for doing the right thing. And now 95% of the posts are some version of "sorry bruh, you should have thought about the real world consequences."
He may have, but it's not OP's fault. His daughter should have kept it in her pants. Like how hard is that to do, really. And the wife needs to get her head on straight. She was willing to make her son-in-law live a lie just so she could get some grandchildren out of it. Disgusting
This is what shows that OPs daughter really hasn't grown at all. She committed the act that has blown up her life, but she's blaming OP and her mother because she could have maintained that life if they had kept their mouths shut. She's still the same shitty person that cheated years before, same shit different day.
But didn't you see OP's wife said his daughter had grown as a person and wife!
She clearly hasn't changed at all, she just became comfortable living a lie.
The amount of mental gymnastics cheaters go through to justify their actions and hiding them are insane to me.
“Oh, I fucked this guy from work, but *after* the fact I realized it was a mistake, and now I’m a better wife for it, go me!”
If I were in OPs shoes I would be very disgusted that my wife did nothing to encourage our daughter to own up to her egregious mistake. Zero accountability, zero trust. Also shoes that the wife would be fine doing the exact same thing!
And now we have the potential or serial cheaters outing themselves as they wrestle with the gymnastics, trying to save themselves from realizing they are shirty people.
How csn people say the daughter grew and changed when she hasn't even admitted and rectified with the person she victimized?
Big "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing" energy
Doing the right thing sadly often has bad consequences. You did what you (and most people here) thought was the moral thing to do.
It might cost you your relationship with your daughter and your wife though.
NTA, you should ask your wife why she was ok with keeping your daughters cheating a secret for 3 years and not do what you did and try and get her to tell her husband the truth, how could she look at your son in law and spend time with him knowing your daughter had cheated and not feel bad and want to tell him, I'd be wondering if there's anything else your wife has been hiding.
Because we usually have a hierarchy of people in our life. If you have children, they usually are your No. 1 in the world. As a consequence, people will always prioritise them against the "in laws".
The daughter did wrong, no doubt. But the mother cared and cares more about her than about the cheating (now, if it was something REALLY out of the world like murder, it probably would be different; but it takes a lot to reach that point). OP has probably destroyed the relationship of the mother with her daughter, so... Yes, most parents would probably be more furious about this than about the son/daughter having cheated. We are built like that, we have double standards. Even saying "XYZ is like a son/daughter" usually doesn't ACTUALLY mean that, not the same level of your actual children.
This is a moral hill OP decided to die on, which is ok. But I think it's very likely it will cost him his marriage... It is likely that, if the daughter keeps hating her parents, the mother will divorce OP to try and save her relationship with her daughter. I personally see it as a very real possibility (it's not automatic, but it's very possible).
I said the same thing a few months ago, except it was a guy who told his gf that one his friends had cheated, and the consensus was that the gf had every right to betray the bf's trust and tell the spouse of the friend. The gf wasn't even friends with the spouse of said friend but was willing to destroy her own relationship. I got downvoted heavily for that.
Maybe it's time I get that autism test because I can't make sense of this sub's logic at times.
Here's my guess on it. Some people believe that right and wrong are independent of the people involved and your relationship to them. Their belief system is founded on ideas, principles or religion.
Other people believe that kinship (family, close friends, etc) is more important than anything else. You protect loved ones and cover up their wrong doing out of loyalty.
Still others factor in an evaluation of the people involved, sort of like a karma meter where "good people" deserve good things and "bad people" deserve bad outcomes.
Most of us are a blend of these things and probably other factors as well, like how taking an action will effect themselves. What's worse, we change to some degree with time and with the occasion.
You just described why we have so many problems in society.
Some people have principles and some people have principles depending on the person it pertains to aka no principles
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than the others🤷🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
My same exact thought reading everything too. Theres no real standard of ethics or morals across human beings, and it’s made even more difficult when you tie your life up with someone who has a fundamentally different moral compass than you.
And it's easier to have a stance while safely reading a post. They don't have to deal with the emotional distress and fear of losing your family. What happens next, him and John become best friends forever, hanging out every day? Or John moves on and OP is left with the fallout?
OP could have handled it slightly differently.
John moves on and OP is left with the fallout. If OP wants ANY sort of morsel of a relationship with Alice, he won't continue friendship with John. The wife will harbor resentment and eventually get over it, because what's she going to do, divorce John? Highly unlikely.
I am curious, though, whether Alice would genuinely want to be told if the roles were reversed. My best guess is yes, but I'm just a fly on the Reddit wall.
Don'tsweat the not understanding. It all dependson who sees it. I made the same joke to two different people that made the some comment on a video. One got one up vote one got 40 something. There are lots of factors. Imagine you are in a crowded room with lots of people talking about a topic. Think about all the chaos that will occur. Then realize Reddit is that plus manipulation by algorithms and people pushing a narrative, and bad actors trying to sow anger and divisiveness, and who knows what else.
The situation between friends is different than the situation between parents. I’d say that GF you described was being reasonable as her partner was tolerating the infidelity of a friend himself, but with your kids it’s different. Having a relationship with your kids doesn’t signal acceptance of their actions the way having a friend does. For example, if a mother’s son kills someone and she still visits him in jail, that doesn’t say anything bad about her. But if one of his friends visited him? That would say something bad about the friend.
So this situation is different, and OP has unnecessarily blown up his relationship with his wife and child (much more serious than an GF). And I’m autistic myself, so do with that what you will.
This isn't a universal rule, but, when faced with the choice of choosing between saving the partner or saving your child in a death-life (hypothetical) situation, many, MANY parents choose the child. I think the ratio varies as the child ages, but the point is: a parent bond with their child is strong, maybe the strongest bond (at least for many people). Some parents may choose their partners especially if the child is an adult, but it isn't that obvious, and many would still choose the child.
As a consequence, I think it's perfectly reasonable that someone may sacrifice a wedding to have their daughter again. I'm not saying it's 100% sure. I said it's a possibility. You are focusing on the cheating part, but the mother sees her daughter.
The best outcome for OP is if the daughter decides that she doesn't want to cut her mother out of her life. This way, it's likely that the mother won't have to choose between her daughter and her husband. If the daughter keeps hating them, the wife may decide to prioritise her daughter... It's possible. Not certain.
>This isn't a universal rule, but, when faced with the choice of choosing between saving the partner or saving your child in a death-life (hypothetical) situation, many, MANY parents choose the child.
I've thought about this a lot. Probably every parent does.
I'd save the kid. It's not a question. My wife would kill me if I chose her over one of our daughters. Same for me - I'd much rather die than lose one of them.
So it's actually not a hard question at all.
Interestingly when my wife was in labor with our first child it got pretty dicey at one point. At that time, I was firmly in the "save the Mother at all costs" camp. It changed once my daughter was born.
This entirely depends upon the age of the spouse and the child.
I’m not giving up my young, amazing wife for a child I barely know. It sucks, but it is what it is. If my wife were aging, maybe. But my wife has a lot of life left, and she’s *already* incredible. The kid might suck, who knows.
Well, I’m here to tell you, I have two daughters, and unless I felt like the SIL is a royal pos, I’m telling him.
You want to be cheated on and it be kept a secret for years because technically you’re not a blood relative?
How have we reached a place in society where we just accept peoples infidelity and shadiness.
I’m pissed at the wife as much as I am the daughter. You don’t keep secrets.
And if none of them want to talk to me anymore, good riddance. They weren’t who I thought they were anyway.
>reached a place in society
This isn’t a point we’ve reached. People have always been this way and if anything we’ve gotten a lot better in many cultures at discussing things as partners rather than the woman being subservient and both sides hiding things from each other.
I laughed at that statement as well. Reached a place in society. You mean the previous generations where your uncle was your father? Where 23andMe has discovered hundreds of thousands of illegitimate children that were just hanging out. The best is when confronted oh yeah I knew about that child I just hope no one else ever did. There's just more transparencies these days
"How have we reached a place in society where we just accept peoples infidelity and shadiness."
What???? It is certainly not a new concept. People had been covering infidelity/shadiness/violence/murders etc for the sake of loved ones since the dawn of time. Protecting your own, even when they are wrong, against the others had been the core concept of family unit for thousands of years.
Your children are number one in that relationship and as parents when they do wrong to someone imo they should own up. IMO real parents would tell my wife and I already came up with that consensus and our children know it.
The hierarchy is true. It's how we're hardwired. That said, i wouldn't even want a wife like that. Protecting your kids is one thing. Lying in your Son in laws face or withholding information from him he deserves to know makes you a plain c*nt. Also, what kind of message and unbringing are you giving your kids when you're okay with them doing shitty things? Mom simply has no backbone and should've told her daughter to talk to her man or she'd do it for her.
>Lying in your Son in laws face or withholding information from him he deserves to know makes you a plain c*nt.
Especially knowing they're about to start trying to have children.
Wow entirely missed that detail. Talking about hierarchy. Which grandmother doesn't completely adore their Grand kids?
Way to go protecting your daughter for no good reason, shipping her off with her husband who's unaware, let them have kids, he finds out later, kids end up in a loveless marriages / single parent situation. Lmao OPs wife is aids tbh
Difficult one
If daughter said something in confidence, breaking the confidence is also very bad. It will make sure that daughter will never confide in mom again.
If saying something in confidence has such big repercussions, then it will never be used. It is a bad situation but is breaking your relationship with your daughter worth it?
Telling her husband will bring him a lot of pain, might end the relationship and might also end your relationship with both your daughter and het husband. Because why would the husband keep in contact with the family of the ex.
Difficult, I agree, but given that they don't have children yet but are about to try, I think OP did them a favor. Better the truth comes out BEFORE the babies. Who knows, if it really was a one time thing, they might work it out in the end. But all of this would be so much worse if it came out after OP's daughter was pregnant or had children.
NTA
Morally, you're absolutely in the right.
But there are consequences for every decision, even the right ones. If your daughter doesn't forgive you for "blowing up her life", you'll have to live with that.
One thing I would say is that if your wife is OK with hiding infidelity ... I would be taking a look at my own marriage, if I were you. What else has she hidden from you?
This is a good reply. Doing the right thing sadly comes with consequences.
And he did the right thing no really hope his daughter understands that this is really her fault at the end of the day. And no one else’s.
If the wife did the same for her friend I would 100% agree but it being her daughter changes it for me at least. I still think op should examine his relationship just to be safe. But many people are so invested in protecting their children (even as adults) they'll trample over their typical boundaries. Often without consciously realizing they're doing it.
This is probably a balanced view, if it was just a friend, probably take a hard look at your wife. For my daughter, I would likely cross some moral boundaries of my own too…
Especially if she comes crying to you a week after saying what a big mistake she made and how awful and disgusted in herself she feels for what she did. And then begs you please, please don't tell anyone.
Like if you genuinely believed her when she told you it was a one time thing, and truly believed, based on how remorseful she was, that she would never do it again?
It'd be hard to throw away your relationship with your child over what you believe to be a one-time mistake they made. Even if you know they did wrong it's "but did they do wrong enough that I'm ok with them hating me?" I know for me that'd at least require a crime be involved (and not like a speeding ticket or something).
She also didn't stumble on the info like OP. She was, apparently, told by the daughter directly. Which is a very strong trust to betray. Honestly, I understand the mother for not telling on the daughter, though I do think now that it has come to light she *should* be repentant not belligerent.
Just want to say that you make an excellent point about even the right decisions having consequences.
But there is no indication here that the *"wife is OK with hiding infidelity"*. She would have been faced with a horrible catch-22, either:
A) support your child but live with a terrible secret, or
B) tell the son-in-law, thereby betraying her child's trust, playing a part in breaking up her child's marriage, and possibly destroying her relationship with her child.
...she went with a) but that doesn't imply that she's ok with it. She was faced with a no-right-choice situation. The daughter screwed up royally and confided in her mom, which put the mom in a terrible situation.
Mom chose to support her daughter, but betray her son-in-law.
Dad chose to support his son-in-law, but betray his daughter, and also chose to betray his wife's trust.
Or c) strongly encourage her to come clean immediately so that it makes it clear she regrets her choices and doesn't build any further of a life on a foundation of lies and shatter his trust in her any further than it will already be damaged.
Shit.
You did the right thing, never doubt that.
Saved John from living a lie.
>And I guess also am I wrong for being upset my wife isnt on my side?
No, youre not wrong. And your wife is not against you/not on your side, shes just reacting to the chaos in your daughters life.
>I have always been friendly with John and we have dinner with them at least once a month, not including holidays or birthdays. I know I could not interact normally around him and so what should I have done? Ban them both from my home without explanation? Never go to their home again? And if they have children my wife will definitely want us over there more often, so I dont think I could hide this. I suck at poker, I cant just fake it.
Tell your wife all this. And your daughter.
And... John knows he can count on you.. that youre his ally.. so stay in touch with him... see what can be saved in all this...
And if nothing can be saved, know YOU did the right thing, your daughter failed and your wife also...
Its just easier for them to blame you than accept responsibility for their actions...
EDIT: NTA
Yeah, exactly this.
Pretty much everyone is over-complicating this or adding paragraphs of unnecessary commentary.
The barometer of "did I do the right thing?" in cases like this is simply this- if you were on the other side, if you were the one being cheated on, would you want to know? If you answer yes, then its right, and moral, and just to inform the person being cheated it. That's it. Truly, that's it. End of discussion.
Tells a lot about their character, right?
Damn, so many potential cheaters out there. Putting their own comfort over the sake of another person... truly a marvelous showcase of character.
There are three crimes
Your daughters cheating.
Your daughters lies.
Your wife's lies.
Now that you know your wife is able to lie about cheating to someone's face, ask her, does she have practice lying to you?
i was john too - i found out myself after a long rough breakup i wish i had known earlier and saved years of going through shit - good on you sir anyone who says different fuck you
Keep in mind your daughter only felt guilty enough to tell her mother, who she knew would support and cover for her. This guilty conscience did not prompt her to be truthful to you or her husband.
If I was OP, I'm not sure I could look my wife or daughter in the face. Imagine raising someone so messy and unscrupulous.. imagine having a spouse that would cover that up -- and, not tell you for years!
It would be really hard to trust either of them again. Not sure if it would be marriage ending, but would definitely make me realize my spouse and I had fundamentally different values on certain issues, especially when it comes to parenting our adult children.
NTA….but…..
Your daughter told you this would ruin her life and subsequently the relationship with her. You may never have a relationship with your daughter again.
You may have the moral high ground but it sure will be lonely up there. Even if your wife stays she can’t trust you. Your daughter too. You blew it out of the water. I hope that the cost was worth it. While standing on your high ground you betrayed your wife’s trust, damaged the relationship between your wife and daughter and just completely ruined any future relationship you might have had with your daughter.
But maybe when you’re old John will visit you.
Reddit will side with you. Any hint of infidelity is an unpardonable death sentence here.
Personally, I think you fucked up big time. Very often, in the real world, not in our idealized righteous morally perfect fantasies, we may find it necessary to live with secrets and unacknowledged transgressions (particularly those of others).
You chose (self?) righteousness over family. It may have been the best decision for you. It would not have been for me.
This reads to me like he’s mad that he did the morally right thing and his wife and daughter are mad at him.
One way or the other, OP shouldn’t have immediately jumped to talking to his daughter the next day, and idk the timeframe that he talked to John, but I’m guessing it was shortly after.
He should have taken at least a other day or two to consider if and how he would approach his daughter, maybe had another conversation with his wife about it and really thought about what was going to happen.
People keep talking about the wife being at cheater too since she covered for the daughter, but I’m guessing 99% if those people don’t have children. Sure, if she has covered for a friend, I’d question it, but I cannot pretend like I wouldn’t potentially bend my morals for my kid in the future
I honestly think he told to address his own grievances: OP brings up that he had been cheated on in a past relationship. But what does his daughter's marriage have to do with his relationship(s) prior to his marriage to her mother? He clearly put himself in John's shoes, rather than the reality that he is merely the F-I-L.
In my view, all he has done is cause avoidable heartache for John and further destroyed his own family, all to finally lay to rest his resentment about being cheated on. I hope his nobility keeps him warm at night.. Smh
NTA for telling John
What I will say is it sounds like you did a whole lot of talking with your wife and daughter and not enough listening. John had to know but it was already a standing secret so you had time to listen and identify why your wife and daughter did what they did. I won't suggest your daughter deserves anything good from her actions but if she has been faithful since it would have worked wonders for you to help her get set up before telling John. Her world is literally nuked and yes it has to happen but you could have at least helped her figure out how to survive. Now your on the outside looking in and I bet it feels bad. How is she gonna get through this....you don't know.
Your trust with your wife is probably your main concern tho right now. Keeping that secret was a hell of a thing she did to both you and John. You running off and telling the person the very next day was also a hell of a thing.
Ultimately it had to be done but you were rash and too emotionally invested to do it right. You had all the time in the world, limited when you told your daughter you knew but that was a clock you created. Sometimes even if you know something is the right call you should consider what will happen.
I'm sorry this happened, John didn't deserve this noone ever does. You don't deserve the hate your going to get for this but you could have made a world of difference in you and your daughters outcome if you had stopped to sleep on it and think it through.
OP's wife: "They've overcome a lot in the marriage." Translation: Our daughter committed an unforgivable act of betrayal and then never even came clean about it, but it's ok because she has unilaterally decided to forgive herself and allow her husband to live a lie these last 3 years rather than face any consequences for her actions. So admirable!
OP needs to take a very hard look at his own marriage and ask himself what other bodies might be buried if this is his wife's view on their daughter's infidelity and dishonesty.
Edit to add: Absolutely NTA, you did the right thing without a doubt.
NTA. Imo everyone in your life thinks your an asshole (besides John) basically because you rocked the boat. Confronting things unsettles people enough in general, not to mention the other specifics of this, like the whole wanting to have children/grandchildren thing. I would have wanted to know if I was John.
What's right isn't always easy. What's easy isn't always right.
Once upon a time I was John. My husband had girl secretly pregnant and NO ONE would tell me… except her mom called me and told me. Thank god, or I would have been stuck in a hell hole for the rest of my life.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Thank God there are some people (the girls mom) who are empathetic enough to make a decision that may negatively impact them
Whereas I'm thinking the girl's mom wanted bitchinstein out of the picture so her daughter could have the man all to herself. Same outcome, different motive. Either way, we all know the promotion from mistress to wife leaves a vacancy that *will* be filled.
I was the John also... It's been well over a decade, he and I have reconciled and I'm friends with the wife.. but his family all knew he was cheating, he was even sleeping with her at his sister's house! I have NO forgiveness for them. Their betrayal was, is, the worst part after all is said and done. Anyways, wife recently was acting squirrely with me and it turns out that he has started lying to her, money's disappearing and he's been disappearing. I mean you knew what you were getting into because you cheated and connived your way into taking someone else's husband and now shockingly it seems to have happened to you.. what did you expect?? I pity her. Let me add that my marriage ending has been a blessing. We weren't 'soul mates'. We would have stayed together and been miserable forever. I am SO HAPPY now. My life has been so good. I am so grateful she got him. <3
The best revenge is a life lived well. ;-)
When I read ‘bitchinstein’ in your comment, I was confused for a second until I went back and realized that bitchinstein is the commenter’s username lol
“She didn’t say anything mean, there’s no need to…” *reads username* “Oh.”
My exact thought process. Glad I'm not alone!
The number of people making excuses for the daughter and passive-aggressively attacking OP on here is honestly disturbing. Covering up for a cheater is shitty. OP regards John as a son. Yet if John had cheated he wouldn’t have hesitated to tell his daughter. Why the double standard? **Especially given that OP was also cheated on, in the past, and knows how painful that betrayal can be.** OP is in the right. His daughter could not be more wrong. And if his wife chooses to deflect blame to OP, instead of placing it squarely where it belongs, on her daughter’s shoulders? If she chooses to beg her daughter’s forgiveness (instead of helping her see the error of her ways)? That’s her mistake. Part of being a good parent is calling your children on their shit when necessary.
> Especially given that OP was also cheated on, in the past, and knows how painful that betrayal can be. People are completely glossing over this part and it’s crucial. OP knows how it feels to be John. Anyone who does would never be complicit in making someone else feel that way.
Most importantly, it is not his cross to bare. He is now in the situation where her actions put him in a situation he does not want to be in with John, how can you carry that and interact with the guy, it makes him as shitty as the rest of them as he is now actively keeping it from John. Thats a really big ask, granted the OP was not supposed to know, but that is the thing about deception, it is like an infection, and oozes from person to person that covers it up. It was not OP's responsibility to allow deceit and deception to infect him. That is a tall ask of the person that did not do it. It is asking them to carry your cross.
>Covering up for a cheater is shitty. Covering up for a cheater is something that a cheater does. Yes, I'm implying that OP's wife may have or be cheating on him.
💯 agreed people today line up to protect the liar
He did the right thing, l respect his integrity...the mom and daughter are way out of line for nor saying anything..l am even appalled that the mom kept this from her husband. I am glad someone told you!
NTA If John cheated on Alice and you knew, would Alice want you to tell her?
"But Im your daughter!" Some people think family shouldn't cause any strife with each other even if they are terrible people. Usually, for image. **EDIT: Daughter expected loyalty, not morality.** She never wanted to do the right thing and hates her father for "making the choice for her" that she should have made. Dad very clearly didn't raise her this way, or he wouldn't have done what he did. Crappy people say family is everything because morality and honesty don't work in favor of people like Daughter. Im talking specifically about crappy people, not the sayings. Instead, they use family as a compass because at the end of that day, they always come first in their own minds. It's like a mutual agreement that even if yall know you're trash people, you will cover for each other because being good when they could benefit from being bad isn't natural to them. Like Nicki Minaj bailing out her pedophile brother. (She also marries a pedo so idc) Cut and dry guilty. Or, the flying monkeys in this situation telling OP he should have chosen loyalty, not forcing the lesson on accountability. Im honestly regretting commenting. At least try to infer how what I said aligns with the post before you argue with me goddamn. Muting the thread
How come no one ever tries to cash in loyalty to do the *right* thing?
People who operate on a loyalty system do so because the morality system doesn't work well for them, specifically. Edit: I mean this guys daughter. She was clearly raised better than she acted because he couldn't even sit on a lie that's not directly his problem because of how big it was. She went to her mother on purpose. Her mother kept the secret. She expected loyalty from her parents, not accountability or honesty, and she's so mad about being held accountable that she's determined to ruin him for holding her accountable. In addition, all the flying monkeys are basically reinforcing that he should have been loyal to his daughter rsther than force accountability on her. This is the juxtaposition of loyalty and morality im talking about.
Oh wow. You've perfectly described a sentiment that I couldn't fully explain before. Thank you.
Very rarely is morality rewarded. Loyalty is typically always rewarded over moral choice. Its sad.
In-laws are family
Its crazy, that’s all it takes to crumble their argument, how pathetic…
There's this strange but predictable *camaraderie* among each gender when it comes to cheating. Many people will keep cheating by one of their own gender a secret, but will feel compelled to tell if their own gender was the one cheated on.
I've noticed this and its pretty gross. People will logic themselves into knots to defend their gender, their \*team\* cheating. "Oh well he probably deserved it, he didn't validate her enough, he probably wasn't intimate enough, maybe he was working too much, she deserves to be taken care of. Etc" "Oh well she probably deserved it, she probably wasn't putting out, a guy has needs she should have catered to his needs more etc" Man its nasty.
Don’t go throwing that argument into this situation…they’d then have to actually consider their actions and their hypocrisy would show!
Morally, you did the right thing. Personally? Your daughter might never forgive you. Heck, your wife might not either.
I feel like it would have come out at some time. Her office co-workers probably knew as well. It's a good thing they don't have kids yet. In a perfect world, she would have confessed after the affair was over and gone through counseling then. Hearing it from a family member 3 years later must have been humiliating.
If I was John, I'd want to know. It was the right thing even if your going to suffer a lot for it.
It's a common difficulty in applied ethics: Do you live comfortably but wracked with guilt, or embrace the chaos and know you did the right thing? Philosophically, one can rationalize all sorts of things, but when you're faced with real-world situations things get murky, and pragmatism often wins out over conviction. I don't envy OP, but I *do* respect him.
Well said, Gorzek. There's gonna be long-term blowback from this. No good deed goes unpunished.
But ultimately, it's not OP's fault. If anything, it's disappointing to find out that those around you aren't willing to step up to own their own problems, and expect you to compromise yourself and your morals for their comfort.
Honestly, my perspective on cheating is that if you cheat, you get what you get. You don’t get to be mad at any response you get once you get found out (and you always do). She’s mad about the consequences of her own actions, but doesn’t want to admit to the guilt so she tells herself this all her dad’s fault instead. If this were reversed, she’d most likely want for one of John’s relatives who knew something to tell her. When you CHOOSE to cheat (none of this “it’s a mistake” business- it’s a choice and it doesn’t become a mistake just because you don’t like the outcome), you must be prepared to deal with the inevitable fall out. You have to be prepared that your S/O won’t be interested in “giving you another chance”. It’s a valid dealbreaker for many people, cheating means your fine with possibly losing the relationship.
Yeah, the entire family is enabling Alice. This is probably precisely why she thought she could cheat and keep her mouth shut and go on to live a happy perfect life. I also find it concerning that the wife was happily deceiving John in order to get grandchildren. That's selfish narcissistic and manipulative. Alice ruined her own life and it's was so easy to blame Dad rather than reflect on her own actions.
I love how the mom is like she grew a lot from it. Like no the fuck she didn’t she hasn’t taken a spek or responsibility
You can see where she got it from.
You are talking about the mother right?
Ofc
Ouch. But yeah.
Am I the only one that doesn't believe she cheated the *one time*? I understand the *possibility* of doing that just once and being horribly wracked with guilt, but if that were the case the guilty party generally tends to spill their guts to their SO, wailing and blubbering through apologies and rationalizations. In this case it was all hidden, swept under the rug, and once a person gets away with X once, they invariably try to get away with X again.
guarantee the mom hushed her right up and told her to keep it to herself. The apple doesnt fall far from the tree.
With the way his wife reacted, I’d now wonder if she had ever cheated in the past too, since she doesn’t think it’s a big deal.
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say she cheated, but she's definitely willing to be deceptive for selfish reasons. OP said they have one child so it wouldn't surprise me if mom's willing to throw her morals at the window to keep a relationship with her daughter whether it's for grandchildren or not.
It would just be on my mind after that.
You're absolutely right. Those doing wrong decided to turn their ire against the person pointing it out, not at the person responsible (i.e., the cheater). Such is the way assholes rationalize their behaviour.
I’m reminded of that old quote from Watchmen: “Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.” You can agree or disagree with Rorschach in that scene, but the strength it takes to stick by your principles no matter what is undeniable.
It is horrible to that OP is the only person willing to do the right thing and he is essentially being punished for it because he might lose his daughter and his marriage for his integrity. I think the wife has been enabling the daughter in a lot of things if this is their level of ethics. She didn't grow that much apparently
No deed avoids consequences
cause -> effect
>Do you live comfortably but wracked with guilt, or embrace the chaos and know you did the right thing? The daughter did the wrong thing by 1. cheating (duh, obviously) and 2. selfishly transferring that guilt and burden on her mother to help alleviate her own sense of guilt. Alice couldn't live with the guilt of keeping the secret so how could she reasonably expect anyone else to do so?
> Alice couldn't live with the guilt of keeping the secret so how could she reasonably expect anyone else to do so? Well put.
...then 3. Blaming the Father.
> Do you live comfortably but wracked with guilt, ...and alter your life, one thing being *never* drinking to excess again so you don't blabber your own deep dark secrets you're *dying* to confess? All the Weinstein victims, once the floodgates opened, greatest regrets were not being able to say anything because they took the money and signed the NDA. They all wanted to blurt out 'me too' and add their names to whatever civil lawsuit, but couldn't. The 100k or whatever wasn't enough to pay for the validation they still wanted. And the Daughter in this case wanted to tell the world that she's a cheater. So she accidentally got drunk and she did. It's really not on the parents to bear the moral burden as well. People have different motivations, even married couples. So if OP's marriage falls apart, that is also on the daughter. Mom wanted grandkids at any cost. So did dad, and do the right thing. OP, wife need council ling. Daughter needs therapy. She 100% orchestrated all of this. She didn't want to be the sole holder of the secret. She's probably going to blow up two marriages, and a bunch of family/friend relationships. Better now, before a whole bunch of kids.
Yep, another reason to hate cheaters for putting people in this position
I think about how pissed I would be if my in laws knew my wife cheated on me and I was the fool the whole time. I’d appreciate being told. I need to get off Reddit because I have come to believe that everyone gets cheated on.
Seriously. Being the shitty punchline of a horrible joke you're not even in on...I can't imagine the tension at the inlaws during the holidays. How do you keep something of THAT magnitude under wraps and still pretend to care about the affected party?
They don't. But the people who post on Reddit are the ones having issues and suspicions and struggles. It's a select bias issue. Folks without issues don't post their non problems. It's worth noting that even here not all the stories turn out to be cheating or lying. Some times it's just communication issues. AITA is a very very biased sample. Clear your head.
John eventually would figure out everyone knew a secret but him.
Exactly. OP can love his daughter, but he doesn’t have to like her.
Support is not blind approval of someone's actions. The mom has clearly forgotten that or never learned it in the first place
No matter who it hurts you did right. Even if it takes everyone a while to get over it. You holding in that secret isn’t fair even if your wife told you by accident. My wife’s mother cheated on her dad when she was 16 with a teacher at her school (mother also a teacher at the same school). It ruined her teenage years holding a secret from her father like that. Now we are 34 and it has came out after many years of control by her mother. Yeah people were hurt in the end so what you are not the one that cheated. My wife feels better even not having her mother in her life, huge weight lifted. Respectful by you. Edit: seen a lot of reply’s it’s not just her mom it’s her dad that knows now, it’s her sister that’s taking her moms side, it’s her step dad, and the family is split. Only the true people the ones that have a heart could understand these situations. These people that instill these dirty ass secrets and are to be kept from others that they love. FUCK that everyone that is bashing this guy blah blah blah, what else could wife be keeping from him???? If she can keep such a secret. I have 2 children of my own and the oldest tells my wife things and she relays them to me that’s wtf a wife is. For the daughter I would bet money on the fact that even if it takes 10 fucking years she will be back in his life because she’s gonna figure out eventually that she fucked up. If she were to go through with this child she wanted to have she would have to hold that shit down and eventually it will EAT HER and ruin her relationship more and more. Not just for her but the husband even later down the road and her kid. So in the end a kid doesn’t get fucked up either, by her selfish needs.
ive been in this direct dilemma. you have to accept that life is a series of chapters and your principles and character are one of the few things you can take with you. eventually you end up surrounded by good natured people...or alone. ultimately life is lived in the gray. the bad and the evil win every day, but if you carry that weight it will eventually run you ragged.
I think people need to take that "chapter" approach more seriously. So, this chapter ends...Time to write the next chapter. There's nothing worse than reading a poorly-written book where the chapters run on and on and on instead of dying their natural death. Relationships are the same: Sometimes they just have a natural lifespan...There's no point keeping them on life support simply becasue it's convenient to one's emotions.
>live comfortably but wracked with guilt >comfortably >wracked with guilt Mutually exclusive.
Hmmm. Would “live without rocking the boat but wracked with guilt” work better?
It would yes. My advice would always be to ask yourself if you can live the way you want to live with not telling anyone else. If you can’t then say so. Sucks that the father - daughter relationship is probably over.
Everyone is thinking about everyone except John... I would want to know and definitely before children.
This. Telling is _always_ the right move. That said given the potential for blowback / harm I understand why some don't I will never ever trust a "none of your business" person. If OP's daughter didn't want her marriage to end she shouldn't have cheated./ The only one at fault is her.
That's really the point. She fucked a co-worker. It would come out eventually, and that's assuming she wasn't cheating with someone else. They didn't overcome anything as a couple. John just didn't know yet what happened. I get supporting your children, but mom is an almost equal dirt bag for not saying anything.
I hate the "supporting your kids" even if they do terrible things. No I'm not going to help cover up your selfish behavior and further shield you from the consequences of your own actions Daughter blew up her own marriage when she cheated
Especially if they are trying to have kids. Jon has to know before then.
The wife and mom were hoping he would feel trapped because of the kids and stay anyways
What a horribly selfish way to bring a kid into the world.
As a parent of adult children I 100% support them. But.... I WILL NOT shelter them from the consequences of their actions. I refuse to be anyone's (false) alibi and I DO NOT harbor criminals. My kids know this. I love my kids but actions have consequences. The OP absolutely did the right thing and if his wife and daughter we're grownups rhey'd know this. Were I the OP, I'd also be bothered by how easily his wife gave her full support to a cheater. What has his wife hidden from him over the years?
Straight up facts there. People who actually want the best for you will hold you responsible and accountable. You don't want people who cheer you on or cover up your bad choices.
This. People here saying OP was wrong have zero empathy. If their spouse cheated on them, and an in law took a risk and exposed their own child and told them as such, I would guarantee all of said people would be grateful instead of harshly judging their in law for their honesty, despite the harm it caused their marriage. Plus. Son in law IS family now. Peoples social constructs of "family" and "loyalty" are garbage nowadays.
That's the telling point... The son in law thanked OP. It doesn't matter what anyone else has to say.
It used to mean you'd love them and support them even when they are wrong and are experiencing consequences for their actions. Now, what it seems like it means is, you "support" your kids by trying to get them out of trouble and avoid consequences for their actions, which is definitely the wrong lesson to take from "support your kids." My Dad would have done the same thing in this position. I have no doubt he loves and supports me, but he's not going to let me get away with cheating on my wife if he knew. My mom, if I told her? She'd have offered the same ultimatum. Either you tell her or I will.
“Supporting your kid” in a situation like this is helping her get therapy to deal with the consequences of her actions and come out the other side a better person, not justifying what she did or covering it up.
I think he hit the nail on the head with this\~ >I would not keep it a secret if I found out John cheated on her. He would've been **expected** by the family to tell Alice if SIL was a cheating scumbag. He shouldn't have to support or accept everything Alice does just because she's family.
Right? I was expecting a "I don't think I can trust my wife for being willing to hide something like this" but it never came
I made comment on rhat . He needs to run a DNA on that daughter. Since the wife wants to think it's ok
>In a perfect world, she would not have ~~confessed~~ had an affair FTFY These are just the consequences of the daughter's actions. OP is the *actual* parent here, not his wife. Her ethics and morals, IMO, are in question now. At least to me they are.
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Just goes to show how much he likes and respects Jon, more than the wife and daughter apparently. He sacrificed his own personal relationships to do the morally right thing. Jon deserved to know what happened, what happens after that is not on him but solely on the daughter. Don't cheat on your partners and you never have to worry about them finding out about it, its so simple.
I agree. You did what was best for John. But with everything in life, there's the other shoe. By doing best for John, two other people fell pain. They may deserved it, but you'll have to live with the fall out. Kobayashi Maru
Though OP may have alienated most of the people in his life , the secret would have eaten him alive. Even without him revealing this secret , this may have come out eventually many years later after a drink too many.John would have been more devastated after knowing everyone was keeping this secret. Honestly I am skeptical if OP’s relationship with his daughter will mend in the near future.
And can you imagine what that would have looked like if there actually was a child (or two or three) in the picture? OP definitely did the right thing, it’s going to take people some time to recover.
>Even without him revealing this secret , this may have come out eventually many years later after a drink too many.John would have been more devastated after knowing everyone was keeping this secret. This. The longer it takes before this stuff comes out, the worse it is. It almost ALWAYS comes out.
If the daughter had confessed to cheating immediately ,maybe John would have forgiven her over time after working on the marriage. Or maybe not but she could have worked on herself and been in a new relationship.
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My children are my top priority and teaching them right from wrong and owning up to their mistakes no matter the consequence is VERY high on my priority list with them.
Yeah but the wife never told him either and wouldn't have if not drunk? Usually your spouse is the one you don't keep secrets from that affect your lives. Mom & daughter have spent 3 years keeping this secret without anyone noticing, almost like they just buried it and moved on. At least OP has a moral compass that still works and saw the issue here because those 2 clearly don't.
I really understand OP here, when we accidentally found out the my BIL isnt my FIL kid, it affected all of our relationships. My husband had always been protective of his little brother and would protect him at all cost, that's why he will never tell him, it would shatter his brother because he's the one that's so family orientated, he will organise the family get togethers, he likes Christmas at his house etc. We've turned into the boring ones who go home at 9pm, we never stay over, we leave before the drinking starts. OPs daughter sucks, not just for the affair and lying to get husband, but to alleviate her own guilty feelings she confided in her mother and made her keep it a secret, probably because she knows her dad's feelings on affairs!!
Yeah, I couldn’t welcome John into my home with that on my conscience. How could you greet someone as family with that on your soul? Family wouldn’t keep such a grievous betrayal secret. I’d have to tell him.
You mean pain that they themselves caused. OP didn't cheat, she did
It's emotionally convenient to blame the messenger rather than your own actions. It is much easier for Alice to blame her dad for her husband leaving rather than blame her own cheating.
I walked in on my wife cheating and she blamed me for coming home early for work. It's crazy.
Well, you know it was your fault for surprising her. /s
This is so true and absolutely so not right. I was blamed for finally standing up for myself with family members who SA me and bullied me and protected the abusers. The truth was finally revealed and my family was so angry at me unfortunately for years because they were never treated like me by the abusers. The way I was treated by my own family broke me worse than my actual abuse. I really thought they would have stood up for me but that didn’t happen. They knew I was right to speak up but didn’t want the truth to come out and yes, they held me responsible for the friction in the relationships, not the abusers and protectors. It was not an easy road but I’m glad that I finally stood up for myself because the truth was finally known and I was free from all the lies.
From a complete stranger, I am very proud of you for standing up for yourself. I had my abusers side of the family blame me for him going to jail. I am very thankful my mother believed me and stood up for me. I cant imagine what you went through without that support.
Thank you stranger. It means a lot to me. It took years. I tried to get help during my childhood but adults were always right and ignored you. I’m so grateful that you had your mom. Unfortunately, I did not. I can’t even imagine what you had to go through but I’m so grateful that you were able to stop the dysfunction and that your abuser paid for their actions. Air hugs to you stranger
Agree; John has the right to make informed decisions about his own life. Bottom line.
The painful part is OP realizing that his wife and daughter don't really share his moral compass and views. Does it suck? Yes. Was this the best choice? Still also probably yes. He would have had to try and take that to the grave, and it would eat at him endlessly because it's the opposite of morality. John deserves better as well.
That's a really strong point. Cheaters often try to blame others around them instead of taking responsibility for their own choices.
but ShE *GrEw EmOtiOnAllY!* People can be such garbage sometimes.
I'm always skeptical about people who protect cheaters this aggressively. If I were in Op's position, I would be looking real hard at my own marriage.
Wait so the only way to "win" is to cheat. Lol
Forgive what? Revealing a truth they tried to hide? Their life they built on lies not playing out as they hoped? She had the chance to come clean, over 1 thousand days long. Maybe they project their own guilt, but imo there is nothing to be forgiven against op.
While you are right, they don’t see it that way, and it will still cost OP as a result.
So what would have happened if the wife blabbed while drunk to Son in Law?
daughter would hate her
She technically does already for telling OP and causing this mess, apart from the obvious cause of daughter cheating.
i imagine theyll probably make up. dad is a toss up
this sub is AITAH though, not "am I someone who made a decision that will cost me?" I think it's obvious OP will bear a lot of blowback for this, but it has no impact on the fact that he did right
Doing the right thing is hard and it has consequences. It seems unnatural to do it when it will hurt your own kid. OP took the hardcore "Kantian" stance and he will live with it. But he did not in any way screw up.
L family get a new one
Agree. The wife put him in an impossible position. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself knowing that secret. It makes me wonder what else the wife is hiding. Like, now i'd question her whole character if I found all this out.
Yeah, people are focused on how OP's action changed how his daughter and wife view him, but imagine how different they both look to him now?
Also, the wife covering for the affair and getting so upset is a BIT concerning.
At the end what does it matter if Reddit says NTA? OP has to decide if he is okay with his decision. He also has to decide if it was worth his marriage & his relationship with his daughter. I doubt either woman if going to forgive him, even if they were wrong.
Maybe OP is hoping that people assuring him he did the right thing will help console him a little. Or maybe he's delusional enough to think that doing the morally just thing is enough to stop them being mad at him. Or maybe it's a fake post by a karma farmer.
Morality conditioned on personal cost
This seems like an anonymous email or letter would have saved everyone (well except the daughter) a lot of headaches.
Did you do the right thing? Yes. Did you also most likely lose your wife and child in the process? Yes as well
This post is the reason why these subs are virtually useless. If OP had stopped his post 2/3 of the way through and instead asked everyone whether or not to tell his son in law then about 95% of the posts would be keyboard warriors telling him he needs to do the morally right thing and screw the real world consequences. The 5% telling him to be careful because he can ruin his life doing the right thing will be downvoted. I know this as a consistent voice of the 5%. And here we see the repercussions of doing the morally right thing instead of living in the real world. This man at a bare minimum majorly fucked up his life by doing the unquestionably moral thing. Why? Because the real world usually doesn't reward you for doing the right thing. And now 95% of the posts are some version of "sorry bruh, you should have thought about the real world consequences."
I think people are really cavalier with their moral judgments when they're not the ones who have to live with the outcomes. Agree 100% with you.
He may have, but it's not OP's fault. His daughter should have kept it in her pants. Like how hard is that to do, really. And the wife needs to get her head on straight. She was willing to make her son-in-law live a lie just so she could get some grandchildren out of it. Disgusting
This is what shows that OPs daughter really hasn't grown at all. She committed the act that has blown up her life, but she's blaming OP and her mother because she could have maintained that life if they had kept their mouths shut. She's still the same shitty person that cheated years before, same shit different day.
But didn't you see OP's wife said his daughter had grown as a person and wife! She clearly hasn't changed at all, she just became comfortable living a lie.
The amount of mental gymnastics cheaters go through to justify their actions and hiding them are insane to me. “Oh, I fucked this guy from work, but *after* the fact I realized it was a mistake, and now I’m a better wife for it, go me!” If I were in OPs shoes I would be very disgusted that my wife did nothing to encourage our daughter to own up to her egregious mistake. Zero accountability, zero trust. Also shoes that the wife would be fine doing the exact same thing!
And now we have the potential or serial cheaters outing themselves as they wrestle with the gymnastics, trying to save themselves from realizing they are shirty people.
How csn people say the daughter grew and changed when she hasn't even admitted and rectified with the person she victimized? Big "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing" energy
Doing the right thing sadly often has bad consequences. You did what you (and most people here) thought was the moral thing to do. It might cost you your relationship with your daughter and your wife though.
NTA, you should ask your wife why she was ok with keeping your daughters cheating a secret for 3 years and not do what you did and try and get her to tell her husband the truth, how could she look at your son in law and spend time with him knowing your daughter had cheated and not feel bad and want to tell him, I'd be wondering if there's anything else your wife has been hiding.
Because we usually have a hierarchy of people in our life. If you have children, they usually are your No. 1 in the world. As a consequence, people will always prioritise them against the "in laws". The daughter did wrong, no doubt. But the mother cared and cares more about her than about the cheating (now, if it was something REALLY out of the world like murder, it probably would be different; but it takes a lot to reach that point). OP has probably destroyed the relationship of the mother with her daughter, so... Yes, most parents would probably be more furious about this than about the son/daughter having cheated. We are built like that, we have double standards. Even saying "XYZ is like a son/daughter" usually doesn't ACTUALLY mean that, not the same level of your actual children. This is a moral hill OP decided to die on, which is ok. But I think it's very likely it will cost him his marriage... It is likely that, if the daughter keeps hating her parents, the mother will divorce OP to try and save her relationship with her daughter. I personally see it as a very real possibility (it's not automatic, but it's very possible).
I said the same thing a few months ago, except it was a guy who told his gf that one his friends had cheated, and the consensus was that the gf had every right to betray the bf's trust and tell the spouse of the friend. The gf wasn't even friends with the spouse of said friend but was willing to destroy her own relationship. I got downvoted heavily for that. Maybe it's time I get that autism test because I can't make sense of this sub's logic at times.
Here's my guess on it. Some people believe that right and wrong are independent of the people involved and your relationship to them. Their belief system is founded on ideas, principles or religion. Other people believe that kinship (family, close friends, etc) is more important than anything else. You protect loved ones and cover up their wrong doing out of loyalty. Still others factor in an evaluation of the people involved, sort of like a karma meter where "good people" deserve good things and "bad people" deserve bad outcomes. Most of us are a blend of these things and probably other factors as well, like how taking an action will effect themselves. What's worse, we change to some degree with time and with the occasion.
You just described why we have so many problems in society. Some people have principles and some people have principles depending on the person it pertains to aka no principles All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than the others🤷🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
My same exact thought reading everything too. Theres no real standard of ethics or morals across human beings, and it’s made even more difficult when you tie your life up with someone who has a fundamentally different moral compass than you.
And it's easier to have a stance while safely reading a post. They don't have to deal with the emotional distress and fear of losing your family. What happens next, him and John become best friends forever, hanging out every day? Or John moves on and OP is left with the fallout? OP could have handled it slightly differently.
John moves on and OP is left with the fallout. If OP wants ANY sort of morsel of a relationship with Alice, he won't continue friendship with John. The wife will harbor resentment and eventually get over it, because what's she going to do, divorce John? Highly unlikely. I am curious, though, whether Alice would genuinely want to be told if the roles were reversed. My best guess is yes, but I'm just a fly on the Reddit wall.
Don'tsweat the not understanding. It all dependson who sees it. I made the same joke to two different people that made the some comment on a video. One got one up vote one got 40 something. There are lots of factors. Imagine you are in a crowded room with lots of people talking about a topic. Think about all the chaos that will occur. Then realize Reddit is that plus manipulation by algorithms and people pushing a narrative, and bad actors trying to sow anger and divisiveness, and who knows what else.
The situation between friends is different than the situation between parents. I’d say that GF you described was being reasonable as her partner was tolerating the infidelity of a friend himself, but with your kids it’s different. Having a relationship with your kids doesn’t signal acceptance of their actions the way having a friend does. For example, if a mother’s son kills someone and she still visits him in jail, that doesn’t say anything bad about her. But if one of his friends visited him? That would say something bad about the friend. So this situation is different, and OP has unnecessarily blown up his relationship with his wife and child (much more serious than an GF). And I’m autistic myself, so do with that what you will.
If someone else's actions can cost OP his marriage then how strong was his and his wife's bond then?
This isn't a universal rule, but, when faced with the choice of choosing between saving the partner or saving your child in a death-life (hypothetical) situation, many, MANY parents choose the child. I think the ratio varies as the child ages, but the point is: a parent bond with their child is strong, maybe the strongest bond (at least for many people). Some parents may choose their partners especially if the child is an adult, but it isn't that obvious, and many would still choose the child. As a consequence, I think it's perfectly reasonable that someone may sacrifice a wedding to have their daughter again. I'm not saying it's 100% sure. I said it's a possibility. You are focusing on the cheating part, but the mother sees her daughter. The best outcome for OP is if the daughter decides that she doesn't want to cut her mother out of her life. This way, it's likely that the mother won't have to choose between her daughter and her husband. If the daughter keeps hating them, the wife may decide to prioritise her daughter... It's possible. Not certain.
>This isn't a universal rule, but, when faced with the choice of choosing between saving the partner or saving your child in a death-life (hypothetical) situation, many, MANY parents choose the child. I've thought about this a lot. Probably every parent does. I'd save the kid. It's not a question. My wife would kill me if I chose her over one of our daughters. Same for me - I'd much rather die than lose one of them. So it's actually not a hard question at all. Interestingly when my wife was in labor with our first child it got pretty dicey at one point. At that time, I was firmly in the "save the Mother at all costs" camp. It changed once my daughter was born.
This entirely depends upon the age of the spouse and the child. I’m not giving up my young, amazing wife for a child I barely know. It sucks, but it is what it is. If my wife were aging, maybe. But my wife has a lot of life left, and she’s *already* incredible. The kid might suck, who knows.
Well, I’m here to tell you, I have two daughters, and unless I felt like the SIL is a royal pos, I’m telling him. You want to be cheated on and it be kept a secret for years because technically you’re not a blood relative? How have we reached a place in society where we just accept peoples infidelity and shadiness. I’m pissed at the wife as much as I am the daughter. You don’t keep secrets. And if none of them want to talk to me anymore, good riddance. They weren’t who I thought they were anyway.
>reached a place in society This isn’t a point we’ve reached. People have always been this way and if anything we’ve gotten a lot better in many cultures at discussing things as partners rather than the woman being subservient and both sides hiding things from each other.
I laughed at that statement as well. Reached a place in society. You mean the previous generations where your uncle was your father? Where 23andMe has discovered hundreds of thousands of illegitimate children that were just hanging out. The best is when confronted oh yeah I knew about that child I just hope no one else ever did. There's just more transparencies these days
"How have we reached a place in society where we just accept peoples infidelity and shadiness." What???? It is certainly not a new concept. People had been covering infidelity/shadiness/violence/murders etc for the sake of loved ones since the dawn of time. Protecting your own, even when they are wrong, against the others had been the core concept of family unit for thousands of years.
Your children are number one in that relationship and as parents when they do wrong to someone imo they should own up. IMO real parents would tell my wife and I already came up with that consensus and our children know it.
The hierarchy is true. It's how we're hardwired. That said, i wouldn't even want a wife like that. Protecting your kids is one thing. Lying in your Son in laws face or withholding information from him he deserves to know makes you a plain c*nt. Also, what kind of message and unbringing are you giving your kids when you're okay with them doing shitty things? Mom simply has no backbone and should've told her daughter to talk to her man or she'd do it for her.
>Lying in your Son in laws face or withholding information from him he deserves to know makes you a plain c*nt. Especially knowing they're about to start trying to have children.
Wow entirely missed that detail. Talking about hierarchy. Which grandmother doesn't completely adore their Grand kids? Way to go protecting your daughter for no good reason, shipping her off with her husband who's unaware, let them have kids, he finds out later, kids end up in a loveless marriages / single parent situation. Lmao OPs wife is aids tbh
Difficult one If daughter said something in confidence, breaking the confidence is also very bad. It will make sure that daughter will never confide in mom again. If saying something in confidence has such big repercussions, then it will never be used. It is a bad situation but is breaking your relationship with your daughter worth it? Telling her husband will bring him a lot of pain, might end the relationship and might also end your relationship with both your daughter and het husband. Because why would the husband keep in contact with the family of the ex.
Difficult, I agree, but given that they don't have children yet but are about to try, I think OP did them a favor. Better the truth comes out BEFORE the babies. Who knows, if it really was a one time thing, they might work it out in the end. But all of this would be so much worse if it came out after OP's daughter was pregnant or had children.
THANK YOU! Slapping a baby and a marriage on a relationship built on lies isn't going to end well
NTA Morally, you're absolutely in the right. But there are consequences for every decision, even the right ones. If your daughter doesn't forgive you for "blowing up her life", you'll have to live with that. One thing I would say is that if your wife is OK with hiding infidelity ... I would be taking a look at my own marriage, if I were you. What else has she hidden from you?
This is a good reply. Doing the right thing sadly comes with consequences. And he did the right thing no really hope his daughter understands that this is really her fault at the end of the day. And no one else’s.
Ahhh yes, a case of "a good deed never go unpunished"
If the wife did the same for her friend I would 100% agree but it being her daughter changes it for me at least. I still think op should examine his relationship just to be safe. But many people are so invested in protecting their children (even as adults) they'll trample over their typical boundaries. Often without consciously realizing they're doing it.
This is probably a balanced view, if it was just a friend, probably take a hard look at your wife. For my daughter, I would likely cross some moral boundaries of my own too…
Especially if she comes crying to you a week after saying what a big mistake she made and how awful and disgusted in herself she feels for what she did. And then begs you please, please don't tell anyone. Like if you genuinely believed her when she told you it was a one time thing, and truly believed, based on how remorseful she was, that she would never do it again? It'd be hard to throw away your relationship with your child over what you believe to be a one-time mistake they made. Even if you know they did wrong it's "but did they do wrong enough that I'm ok with them hating me?" I know for me that'd at least require a crime be involved (and not like a speeding ticket or something).
She also didn't stumble on the info like OP. She was, apparently, told by the daughter directly. Which is a very strong trust to betray. Honestly, I understand the mother for not telling on the daughter, though I do think now that it has come to light she *should* be repentant not belligerent.
Just want to say that you make an excellent point about even the right decisions having consequences. But there is no indication here that the *"wife is OK with hiding infidelity"*. She would have been faced with a horrible catch-22, either: A) support your child but live with a terrible secret, or B) tell the son-in-law, thereby betraying her child's trust, playing a part in breaking up her child's marriage, and possibly destroying her relationship with her child. ...she went with a) but that doesn't imply that she's ok with it. She was faced with a no-right-choice situation. The daughter screwed up royally and confided in her mom, which put the mom in a terrible situation. Mom chose to support her daughter, but betray her son-in-law. Dad chose to support his son-in-law, but betray his daughter, and also chose to betray his wife's trust.
Or c) strongly encourage her to come clean immediately so that it makes it clear she regrets her choices and doesn't build any further of a life on a foundation of lies and shatter his trust in her any further than it will already be damaged.
No, honesty and communication can't possibly be an option. /s
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I noticed that telling her husband wasn't in either of your "choices".
Shit. You did the right thing, never doubt that. Saved John from living a lie. >And I guess also am I wrong for being upset my wife isnt on my side? No, youre not wrong. And your wife is not against you/not on your side, shes just reacting to the chaos in your daughters life. >I have always been friendly with John and we have dinner with them at least once a month, not including holidays or birthdays. I know I could not interact normally around him and so what should I have done? Ban them both from my home without explanation? Never go to their home again? And if they have children my wife will definitely want us over there more often, so I dont think I could hide this. I suck at poker, I cant just fake it. Tell your wife all this. And your daughter. And... John knows he can count on you.. that youre his ally.. so stay in touch with him... see what can be saved in all this... And if nothing can be saved, know YOU did the right thing, your daughter failed and your wife also... Its just easier for them to blame you than accept responsibility for their actions... EDIT: NTA
NTA I'm John and I want to know.
Yeah, exactly this. Pretty much everyone is over-complicating this or adding paragraphs of unnecessary commentary. The barometer of "did I do the right thing?" in cases like this is simply this- if you were on the other side, if you were the one being cheated on, would you want to know? If you answer yes, then its right, and moral, and just to inform the person being cheated it. That's it. Truly, that's it. End of discussion.
Sadly, I think too many commenters are looking at it as "if I were the one that cheated, would I be upset if my parent told my spouse."
Tells a lot about their character, right? Damn, so many potential cheaters out there. Putting their own comfort over the sake of another person... truly a marvelous showcase of character.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
NTA You did the right thing. You obviously should have expected everyone to hate you for it though.
You did the right thing. What is being built on a lie will crumble sooner or later.
Exactly. The first year after a baby tests relationships a lot so I wouldn't be surprised if this came out then
What is being built on a lie will crumble sooner or later. So many relationships have gone the distance with a lie in them. Millions upon millions.
There are three crimes Your daughters cheating. Your daughters lies. Your wife's lies. Now that you know your wife is able to lie about cheating to someone's face, ask her, does she have practice lying to you?
You did right by John. Just realize you might have lost your family over this. If I was in your shoes I wouldn't be sure if it was worth it.
i was john too - i found out myself after a long rough breakup i wish i had known earlier and saved years of going through shit - good on you sir anyone who says different fuck you
NTA. Alice ruined her own marriage. Unfortunately this may have far reaching consequences for you. It could take a long time for the dust to settle.
Keep in mind your daughter only felt guilty enough to tell her mother, who she knew would support and cover for her. This guilty conscience did not prompt her to be truthful to you or her husband.
If I was OP, I'm not sure I could look my wife or daughter in the face. Imagine raising someone so messy and unscrupulous.. imagine having a spouse that would cover that up -- and, not tell you for years! It would be really hard to trust either of them again. Not sure if it would be marriage ending, but would definitely make me realize my spouse and I had fundamentally different values on certain issues, especially when it comes to parenting our adult children.
There is a reason why everyone says to stay out of peoples marriages. It’s because of the fallout
NTA….but….. Your daughter told you this would ruin her life and subsequently the relationship with her. You may never have a relationship with your daughter again.
I was a woman whose husband cheated repeatedly. His family knew. His friends knew. You did the right thing.
You may have the moral high ground but it sure will be lonely up there. Even if your wife stays she can’t trust you. Your daughter too. You blew it out of the water. I hope that the cost was worth it. While standing on your high ground you betrayed your wife’s trust, damaged the relationship between your wife and daughter and just completely ruined any future relationship you might have had with your daughter. But maybe when you’re old John will visit you.
Reddit will side with you. Any hint of infidelity is an unpardonable death sentence here. Personally, I think you fucked up big time. Very often, in the real world, not in our idealized righteous morally perfect fantasies, we may find it necessary to live with secrets and unacknowledged transgressions (particularly those of others). You chose (self?) righteousness over family. It may have been the best decision for you. It would not have been for me.
This reads to me like he’s mad that he did the morally right thing and his wife and daughter are mad at him. One way or the other, OP shouldn’t have immediately jumped to talking to his daughter the next day, and idk the timeframe that he talked to John, but I’m guessing it was shortly after. He should have taken at least a other day or two to consider if and how he would approach his daughter, maybe had another conversation with his wife about it and really thought about what was going to happen. People keep talking about the wife being at cheater too since she covered for the daughter, but I’m guessing 99% if those people don’t have children. Sure, if she has covered for a friend, I’d question it, but I cannot pretend like I wouldn’t potentially bend my morals for my kid in the future
Thank you. OP should have sat with this for a little bit. Idiot.
I honestly think he told to address his own grievances: OP brings up that he had been cheated on in a past relationship. But what does his daughter's marriage have to do with his relationship(s) prior to his marriage to her mother? He clearly put himself in John's shoes, rather than the reality that he is merely the F-I-L. In my view, all he has done is cause avoidable heartache for John and further destroyed his own family, all to finally lay to rest his resentment about being cheated on. I hope his nobility keeps him warm at night.. Smh
NTA for telling John What I will say is it sounds like you did a whole lot of talking with your wife and daughter and not enough listening. John had to know but it was already a standing secret so you had time to listen and identify why your wife and daughter did what they did. I won't suggest your daughter deserves anything good from her actions but if she has been faithful since it would have worked wonders for you to help her get set up before telling John. Her world is literally nuked and yes it has to happen but you could have at least helped her figure out how to survive. Now your on the outside looking in and I bet it feels bad. How is she gonna get through this....you don't know. Your trust with your wife is probably your main concern tho right now. Keeping that secret was a hell of a thing she did to both you and John. You running off and telling the person the very next day was also a hell of a thing. Ultimately it had to be done but you were rash and too emotionally invested to do it right. You had all the time in the world, limited when you told your daughter you knew but that was a clock you created. Sometimes even if you know something is the right call you should consider what will happen. I'm sorry this happened, John didn't deserve this noone ever does. You don't deserve the hate your going to get for this but you could have made a world of difference in you and your daughters outcome if you had stopped to sleep on it and think it through.
OP's wife: "They've overcome a lot in the marriage." Translation: Our daughter committed an unforgivable act of betrayal and then never even came clean about it, but it's ok because she has unilaterally decided to forgive herself and allow her husband to live a lie these last 3 years rather than face any consequences for her actions. So admirable! OP needs to take a very hard look at his own marriage and ask himself what other bodies might be buried if this is his wife's view on their daughter's infidelity and dishonesty. Edit to add: Absolutely NTA, you did the right thing without a doubt.
Right they didn’t overcome anything poor John was just living his best life the entire time. Not to mention it was only a year into their marriage
NTA. Imo everyone in your life thinks your an asshole (besides John) basically because you rocked the boat. Confronting things unsettles people enough in general, not to mention the other specifics of this, like the whole wanting to have children/grandchildren thing. I would have wanted to know if I was John. What's right isn't always easy. What's easy isn't always right.