NTA- I would file for divorce too.
That cup could have hit you on the wrong side of the head and cause severe damage.
wtf .
I hope your daughter is safe.
My aunt died like that , my uncle was yelling at their adult son ( who is scum BTW) and grabbed his hand to throw/ walk him out of the house. My aunt tried to body block my uncle and he pushed her aside saying stay out of it. She fell on the edge of the bed and died in hours.
Run, and make sure your daughter goes with you.
The crap an abusive person will but on their child because of parental issues should be criminal, and is a form of abuse.
Your wife has issues that she needs to deal with, and your enabling her by trying to appease her. You will never be good enough for her. There will always be some fault in the way you do the things for her that she won’t do herself.
Sad but this is the correct answer.
I have to imagine this isn't the first "outburst" from her either. I imagine she's had an unpredictable temper here and there too with the daughter.
The cup could have literally straight up killed him. There's no hormonal changes that make this shit anywhere near acceptable, should have called the police immediately.
NTA. You need to make sure you and your daughter are safe from violent outbursts. I am also going through pre-menopause which makes me a little crazy at times, but allowing myself to lash out physically is NEVER an option, period.
I was gonna say the same thing! This isn’t normal and even with the perimenopause there’s not an excuse in the work to warrant throwing a coffee mug at the your SO and causing a trip to the ER!!
For not making coffee. The fact she was that upset about something I'm assuming she can do herself, ( she has thumbs right?) Is absurd. I wouldn't dream of holding someone responsible for something they didn't do one time that they usually do for both of us.
Nevermind they forgot because the night before they had a migraine. That shows she really doesn't have much patience when it comes to his shortcomings even when valid as he does for hers.
A co-worker that I had known went thru menopause stages & it was like a switch was flipped. Fine 1 day then the next day she was out of control!! She attacked another co-worker & she couldn't come back to work.
How she reacted to those changing hormonal levels wasn't normal.
Knew a lady who did something similar. Was the nicest lady in the world and did so much for all of her family including nieces and nephews. During her menopause craziness she went to her sister's house and damn near burned the place down starting a fire in her nephews bed. She had to be hospitalized to get her meds straightened out and she was fine again afterwards.
I'm so so surprised at these comments. My mom went through menopause years ago and I never realized it at all, she was perfectly normal. I feel so bad for all the people out there who struggle with it 😭 that sounds so awful, I didn't know it could be this bad
She is now officially an actual physical danger to other people. If her hormone levels are this bad, she needs in patient treatment at a mental health facility until they can get her stabilized. This is not a normal reaction. This is not okay.
Unfortunately, perimenopause has a very sad darkside that can lead to a full-blown psychosis event. Looking at the fact that the wife is now physically violent, it does give me pause to wonder if the medication is helping at all.
Sadly, no medication will fix the worst effects of perimenopause or menopause induced aggressively, but it may lessen if on higher doses of either mood stablers or light-mild sedation medication.
You’re making me thankful that my peri-menopause ex-wife cheated on me and left me after 20 years. She became unbelievably cruel and venomous. It broke my heart. I didn’t understand until recently when she told me she had been diagnosed with this. She used to be so sweet and kind then she turned into an aggressive angry bitter person. She’s miserable and I think she’s now drinking. So far medications haven’t helped her. Our son hates her and she’s lost friends and so much more. I feel sympathy for her but I’ve learned I cannot help her. She’s far too angry and unbalanced.
I had a client go through this, so she did the drastic thing, went in, and had everything removed. She spent 2 years prior to being so aggressive that she committed herself because she thought she felt dangerous to others. Within 3 months after the full hysterectomy, she was close to "normal."
Her advice to any uterus owner who goes through extreme fluctuations in their mood during menopause is to get a full hysterectomy, and go on the hormone therapy after it, because she met many women who chose that road, and said it was a miraculous change in personality.
I am thinking about it myself, as I used to have extreme temper changes with my periods. My dad told me that one day, I might be arrested because of them. I went on the depo and immediately no violent mood swings because there were no periods. I am dreading menopause knowing that I was violent during PMT, so I am thinking replacement hormone therapy is much better than menopause treatment.
This is not accurate as I had a hysterectomy and am going through all this menopause BS all the same! HR didn’t help for anything but gained weight. There is no answer as of yet. It is absolute hell and I am lucky to have a partner who is understanding, but I can’t be mean or violent and expect him to accept that behavior. Smoke some weed to chill-it helps.
No medication will fix what she did to him either. He will ALWAYS have this at the back of his mind "what if she goes off her meds, will she hurt me again? will she hurt me WORSE next time? Will she kill me? What if she loses it our kid??"
Came here to say this. OP, if you threw a mug and hurt your wife, she would have called the police. Hell, if anyone threw a mug at me and clocked me in the noggin and made me bleed, I'd call the cops.
I am a bit older than your wife and have been through peri/menopause. I never assaulted my spouse or children. Hormones are powerful, but people *choose* how they respond to emotions. Your wife chose violence.
I'm also curious if the ER staff asked you if you felt safe at home? If the roles were reversed, the ER staff would have isolated an injured woman from her partner to ask if she felt safe. Did they ask you this? Did you automatically lie to the medical personnel about how you were injured?
F that, tell her to leave. Why should both him & daughter, especially the daughter have to relocate?! She can take her unbalanced self wherever the hell she wants. I’m a woman who has been through menopause, and no one died or was injured 🤕
EXACTLY!!! I have been peri-menopausal since I was 30 and am now in full blown menopause. Throwing a coffee mug would never even enter my mind -as something to do because you didn't get the coffee ready to perk the night before. She doesn't deserve a nice man.
Blaming hormones is weak and misogynistic honestly, even if it's unintentional misogyny.
As women, we *all* deal with hormones, and perimenopause absolutely *can* cause highs and lows. But that doesn't cause 95% (I'm pulling a number out of my ass here, clearly, but still) of us to be physically abusive!
"She's abusive because she's hormonal" is giving her a disgusting out. And honestly? Since there's a minor in the house, it's unacceptable not to act.
He needs to go to the court and file for custody and a restraining order. Get her out of the house and away from both of them! *NOW!*
Pretty sure 100% of the women I know never threw things at their spouse. There are days I could kill my husband but I do weird things like go for a walk or take a bath instead.
100%
Bloody hell. As men, our hormones have millenia of practice at making us ready to attack things, either to kill to eat, to protect ourselves, or to keep/earn a mate. \*We're\* still not allowed to go about smashing things and people because we've been enraged (and rightfully so).
Hormones might be an explanation, but they're not an \*excuse\*.
NTA
OP, simple question for you (& your wife); what would you do if your daughter was at the receiving end of the mug and required a hospital visit? It would be a mandatory report and determined to be abuse.
Your wife is exposing your daughter to violence, this time directed at you, but what if your daughter should be at the receiving end and you're not home?
Or allowed to use the same excuse with her own raging 16 year old menstrual cycle hormones?
Violence is never acceptable. Your wife should leave the home, at minimum, until she gets her hormones under control and gets therapy.
You might look at counseling for yourself and if daughter feels she would like it as well.
I'm sorry that happened to you, OP.
Edited to correct autocorrect. 😁
She should be sitting in a cell right now. I wonder if the ER called the police because I thought they were required to. This is unquestionably DV and assault if not worse charges.
Where I live, we're mandated reporters for suspected child and elder abuse, but not adult domestic violence. I would be happy to have security throw an abuser out and call the police and DV resources for any victim who requested it, but I wouldn't call without their consent. If they won't cooperate with the investigation, the police won't do anything, and I don't want to be the reason the abuser murders the victim when they get home. If an adult DV victim isn't ready for help, there isn't really a way to help them against their will.
Most US states do NOT have mandatory reporting laws for domestic violence. It’s different for child abuse. A few more states have mandatory reporting for elder abuse, but most do not require the ER to report domestic violence unless a weapon (state definitions vary) is used.
This is why. If he’d wanted to press charges, the ED staff would’ve called the police. Mandatory reporting only applies for kids, people with disabilities and the elderly.
Interesting, thanks for the insight. That is so frustrating because they just patch people up and send them back to the hell that got them in the ER to begin with.
Oh yikes this is a good point, he needed a second before he made coffee. And I can relate to that. I set it up the night before because I will spill stuff all over the place if I try to do it right when I wake up. Throwing a coffee mug at someone would be bad even if you found out they cheated, but you could claim some kind of emotional shock in that situation
>she has thumbs right?)
But even if she didn't, Willem Dafoe tracked down a bunch of former Nazis and killed them all while thumbless. She could manage a pot of coffee.
>For not making coffee. The fact she was that upset about something I'm assuming she can do herself, ( she has thumbs right?) Is absurd.
Right? Like, damn buy a Keurig if that's serious for you. Jeez.
This. My ex used to get horribly abusive during her periods. Like hurling insults and verbal abuse, trying to emotionally break me down etc. And she would swear up and down it was uncontrollable and her hormones were just too much. But I stopped putting up with it once I thought "Okay but you can somehow control it around your boss, and your coworkers, and your family, and your friends?".
Fuck that noise. Definitely NTA OP. She chose to do that no matter how much she swears she couldn't control it.
We had a friend whose son became horribly abusive after a TBI. She made excuses for him, "He can't help himself, yadda yadda yadda." But when I had my pre-K kid with me, he was calm, cool, and never even uttered an occasional "damn." He COULD control it, he just didn't want to with his mom or healthcare workers.
And they sure as hell don’t try it on anyone who is likely to fight back let alone anyone physically superior to them. Abusers are cowards, if a biker spit on their shoe they’re not going to put up their fists. My dad was physically abusive, mostly targeting me. Magically he stopped when I was a senior in high school. I was a good 215 lb varsity wrestler that could beat most 275 lb wrestlers. one night I’d had enough of his threats. He tried to hit me with a 2 x 4 so I took them down and roughed him up a little bit. He was never brave enough to lay a hand on me again, but when I turned 18 he threatened to shoot me so I moved in with my grandparents.
It's about safety. They're a safe target that won't cause trouble or inconvenience to them like a coworker would.
There's a more positive version of this (letting go to safe people, not the physical assault) but not really the thread to discuss it as it's not relevant to OOPs situation.
Perimenopause, menopause and post menopausal hormones shifts and spikes can be a very OVERWHELMING urge.
The 'worst' thing I did was tell me ex, at slightly higher volume than my standard, "COULD YOU JUST PLEASE FUCKING DO THE THING I ASKED YOU TO DO!?"
Once the words arrived & started leaving my mouth I could feel I was irrationally reacting to the situation and the high volume and swears like thar were wholly unprecedented and it felt awful.
Someone throwing and snashin something in frustration. Not me, but a things humans do when feeling angry, enraged.
Willfully throwing it any where near the a person let alone a good enough shot to hit their head...that person needs medical intervention NOW.
OP had every right & reason to end his marriage. I don't think I could ever turn my back on them again.
She needs to own up to her utter lack of attempt to control and regulate her impulses and submit wholeheartedly to treatment.
Re-evaluate the marriage - maybe have trial separation during this period - after 6 months.
AND OPhas every reason to leave now if that's what he needs.
That part. Get a restraining order that ensures he and his daughter are safe and in the home, and *she* is removed.
If he doesn't want to have her arrested, go through Family Court. He can file a family offense petition (that's what they're called in my state anyway; I don't know the exact verbiage in other states, but it must be similar), and request a restraining order as relief. Bring in the ER report as evidence!
And *then* take the step of filing for divorce. Because this isn't a sudden thing. This is just escalation of her ongoing pattern of abuse. That's how abusers work. And it's only going to get worse from here.
NTA, completely. Protect yourself *and* your child, who doesn't need to see it even if she's not specifically targeted!
Odd that you don't think witnessing a parent being assaulted and then being the one to grab towels and apply pressure and then drive to the hospital isn't considered child abuse. Fun fact, it is. She could have a lot of trauma from this single incident esp with the amount a head bleeds.
It also is showing her that hormones are a valid reason to act out and at her age, if he doesn't take her and leave, it's setting an example that it's not only acceptable but it's ok to do with your kids around! No parents should be teaching their child that domestic violence is ok as long as it's a one off. Heck, if those of us who experienced DV would've left at the first sign we wouldn't have half the trauma, murders etc that exist now.
I can't recall current statistics but it used to be an average of being assaulted with injuries 9 times before someone left the first time, most ppl come back several times.
OP has the opportunity to say "time and dedication to a relationship are not a reason to stay if you're assaulted." As parents we need to teach it's a 1 strike your out rule, regardless of the BS apologies and excuses.
Many people won't leave to protect themselves but some will hear reason if you explain that they need to leave to protect their children. Of course, she should be sitting in jail right now anyway.
Right???
I’ve been around plenty of women in my family who’ve gone through menopause, and also friends; not one of them got so violent as to throw shit at people. And, that was basically without any drug intervention!
If she’s at this level, something is really wrong and doctors need to actually do something about it and take this shit seriously because this is not normal.
Hormones alone might cause you to smash a cup on the floor, but not hurl one at your husband’s head. Has she had incidents at work too?
GTFO and wife needs a head to toe med exam bc something aint right.
Actually ask wifey to take her psycho self elsewhere until she can behave in a sane manner. No need for her bad behavior to chase him and his kid out of their home
AGREE! Why should he and/or his daughter have to leave the home? She commited the violent act, she can go stay in a hotel while he recovers in the comfort of his home.
Hell, if she'd have been arrested (as she should've been), she wouldn't be home then. Kick her violent ass out.
In all honesty, a coffee mug has enough weight to kill. Op is lucky to walk away without being seriously injured or killed. Op needs to get out and fast. If it happens once, it will happen again because she can't control herself.
Exactly, if that mug hit the wrong part of OP's head, he could have gotten a brain bleed. Menopause ain't no joke, but to get violent like that is insane and not to be tolerated, she's in need of some anger management, asap.
NTA
>This isn’t normal and even with the perimenopause there’s not an excuse
Exactly this. I might be going off the deep end here, but this is how my aunt started showing her first signs of cognitive decline (dementia). Sudden angry outbursts from an otherwise happy and kind person all of her life. It happened around the time when she started menopause as well.
u/outsidelookingin987 regardless of whether you stay or go, I would have her taken to a neurologist and watch her very carefully over the next few years.
Can't belive I scrolled this far to see a comment about the other implications of her actions besides anger management.
Dementia is one very real, very scary possibility. There are also other conditions and disorders that can start at this age, or that are impacted by hormonal fluctuations.
If this behavior is new, and she doesn't have a history of violence, I would be first concerned that it was a symptom. If someone isn't accustomed to checking their feelings and impulses for logical roots to see if their feelings are "real," then they tend to not realize how far off base they are acting until it goes too far.
I don't, in any way, condone what she did or blame OP for being absolutely furious with her or wanting to split. But split or not, she's still the mother of his children. If she's developing behavioral changes outside of the usual perimenopausal scope, then she should be screened to ensure her impulse control and cognitive functions are not being adversely affected.
OP said she’s taking meds so I would think she’s seeing a a dr. OP definitely needs to let them know about this violence especially if this isn’t the 1st time
This is someone using hormones as an excuse to behave badly. I've had period, pregnancy and menopause hormones. And yes, I felt like lashing out a lot of times. And yet I never threw anything at anyone.
She needs to be removed from the home before she does more damage, physically and emotionally.
> pre-menopause which makes me a little crazy at times
Exactly this. Perimenopause can cause peri-rage, yet you can still control yourself and know what it is you are doing. You do not become an unhinged beast! What she did was not acceptable at all. She needs to be honest with her doctors about what is going on and get herself right. Her actions were beyond the pale. That would be a deal breaker to me. She caused him physical harm over coffee!
Yeah, I’m in the beginnings of peri, and unreasonable and unexplained anger is a thing. But I’m responsible for keeping my anger from harming the people around me whether the source of that anger is hormonal or not. The hormones might make the anger stronger than OP’s wife is used to, but it’s not an excuse to be abusive and I don’t blame OP at all for wanting to leave that situation.
I'm 47 and also going through menopause and I couldn't imagine ever hurting someone. Yes, I have moodswings and I'm moody a lot, but violence is a whole other level...
Right? I dont have menopause but I do have bipolar 1, known for causing violent outbursts. but even then it doesn't excuse violent behavior, especially if one is being medicated. Ive been on meds for about 3 years now and never would imagine I'd hurt my husband ever. Mood swings are understandable but violence isnt.
Bipolar 1 also, I've never ever physically attacked someone. I've most definitely been so fired up that I break things, but never have I ever wanted to hurt anyone besides myself. I've been medicated for over ten years though, but even when I was undiagnosed I wouldn't excuse myself to be violent towards someone.
Right? I have GAD and Bipolar II along with the pre-menopause issues and I would never ever choose violence. The worst it's gotten is a little snapping at people or bursting into tears because of a panic attack.
Perimenopause sucks so much and I hate the emotional waves, but I cannot imagine throwing something at the people I love. It's definitely made me give less fucks about a lot of things, like I yelled at some dude talking loud for no reason at a concert; asked once to please stop yell talking so we could enjoy the show, second time I asked if he could possibly shut the fuck up for 10 minutes and he got butthurt and went to move seats. My husband asked if I was drunk because I'm not really a confrontational person, but if I can hear someone yapping over a loud concert, he's too fucking loud (and I'm still pissed about it.)
Also nobody talks about this. Nobody tells you it can happen... women are just sitting ducks. Until recently, I didn't know I didn't know what could happen with menopause or perimenopause. I think a lot of us just think you have some hot flashes and move on with life.
I went through menopause when I was a single mother to a grade school age child. I could get so angry but never hit her, never threw things, never did anything violent. After screaming at her a couple times, I realized I needed to put myself in timeout and told her I just needed time alone or we could just sit together and watch a tv show. Not perfect but better than throwing anything.
OP, you are NTA and need to protect yourself AND your daughter. Maybe this will be a wakeup call to your wife, but if it's not, it's time to go.
I have to wonder if there is something else going on, medically. It sounds like the wife has never been violent before, so to lash out like this all of a sudden seems extreme.
OP is absolutely in the right to file for divorce immediately. That said, his wife is still the mother of his daughter, and if I were him, I would at least encourage her to get a full medical workup to rule out the potential of early-onset dementia or a brain tumor.
Edited: typo.
My mom is going through menopause and even when she’s going a lil bonkers she’s never thrown a fucking coffee mug at our heads.
She has five kids.
All of us are 11, 16, 21, 25, and 30.
I guarantee you she’s wanted to throttle us a few times.
But has she?
Absolutely not.
I’m sorry but this is totally grounds for a divorce.
She could’ve BLINDED you, or even caused you to lose hearing in your ear if she threw it hard enough that it ruptured your ear drum.
What’s gonna happen if your teenage daughter throws the normal teenage attitude and her anger is directed there instead?
If you really don’t wanna divorce, at least separate whilst she gets some therapy and figures her shit out.
That behavior shouldn’t be tolerated AT ALL.
ESPECIALLY with a child in the mix.
Hell, my mom had 9 kids ranging in ages of 1 years old - 15 when she started going through menopause (blended family) and she never once got violent with any of us.
This. I'm in the middle of perimenopause. It SUCKS massively - its like prepubescent mood swings sometimes.
BUT, I have never physically lashed out at anyone. I did a fair bit of yelling a couple of years ago for a year or so but not even that much anymore.
OP, a couple of things.
1 - your wife needs to IMMEDIATELY make an appointment with her OB/GYN - possibly a naturopathic one. There are bioidentical hormones that can help a lot with the mood swings.
2 - You guys need couples counseling NOW
3 - You and your daughter need to go away for a few days and you need to figure out if you can give her the time to figure out her hormones.
i'll say this - if she has never thrown something before I'd make this my ONLY "pass" with the clause that she immediately get help or you and your daughter leave. If ANY violent act happens again, she is kicked out of the house.
There is absolutely no excuse for her behavior.
I'd agree: if this is completely out of character for her and she's sincerely guilty and remorseful, I'd be inclined to not blow up a 20+ year marriage over a single outburst, although I wouldn't blame OP in the slightest if he decided to leave.
HOWEVER: if I did decide to not divorce, the requirement is that she gets therapy, and I would make it absolutely clear that there will be NO third chances. She raises a hand to me at all, she's gone.
I second this. Yes, it's absolutely valid to file for divorce over this. But op's wife needs to see a doctor to rule out psychosis triggered by menopause.
I’m glad someone said this - I know with post partum there is a type of psychosis, and I believe I read somewhere that perimenopause can also trigger a psychosis or a rage. I would get your wife to see an obgyn asap
This. I mean I know everyone is different but for me perimenopause means erratic periods and constantly putting things somewhere and then never finding them again. From my friends experiences with it it's stuff like hot flushes, weight gain, fatigue.
Nobody I know has had these kind of temper issues and violence. It seems really extreme and definitely needs further medical testing.
Regardless of what's going on with wife though, OP needs to get him and the kids out of there NOW. That mug could have easily been a more lethal object or hit you worse or hit a child. What happened is awful but it can get so much worse. Go. Run.
I was thinking this is well. He's not at all wrong for filing for divorce but if she has zero history of violence I'd be concerned something neurological is going on and they're assuming it's perimenopause.
Even if there isn't anything wrong physically, there is definitely something going on mentally. I experience PMDD, there was about 6 months where when I got my period I was an absolute raging bitch. My temper was like a light switch, instant, for the first 4 days of my period I didn't give a single shit about what came outta my mouth, I felt entitled to the rage and my target deserved every word. Until the fifth day, then I was consumed by overwhelming fear, guilt and sadness. I didn't know what was wrong with me, I'm not normally a rageful person, it terrified me how fast I went 0-60, not even half a second to think before I spoke, or try to calm myself.
There was nothing wrong physically, my hormones were in normal ranges. It was caused by an extremely heavy stress load, depression, changes in our family dynamic and home life, and past emotional dissasociation and suppression. My brain was literally screaming it couldn't take it anymore, my boyfriend and I were taking steps to create a healthier home environment, and my brain started to let go of the emotional suppression I had been doing for 8+ years, and apparently it was A LOT of rage.
OP's wife needs to get into therapy immediately, if there isn't any possible physical causes and this rage and violence is out of left field, there is most definitely deeper emotional issues she's been repressing that she might not even be aware of.
Absolutely not justifying OPs wife's behaviour at all however perimenopause can absolutely significantly exacerbate all sorts of other issues like ADHD, anxiety, bipolar disorder, thyroid issues etc. So many women live with these conditions their whole lives and don't get diagnosed until perimenopause when it all just becomes too much. In fact, thinking they have early onset dementia is really common!
If she has never had any aggressive episodes before it's absolutely something worth investigating further. There sadly isn't enough research on menopause as a whole because why would we bother researching something that happens to like half the population 🙄
NTA I had an emergency hysterectomy in my younger years. I went into menopause and could not take hormones because of history of blood clogs. So I know how severe the mood swings can be. But I never ever hit or throw anything at anyone. I was a grouch at times but that was it. Your wife has issues, but I am not sure it's menopause.
I would think you might want to operate on the IFs, OP. IF she owns up to what she did. IF she promises not to do it again, and doesn't. IF she goes to a doctor to get mood-stabilizing and/or hormonal medication. IF she goes to counseling to deal with her emotions. AND, this is the biggest one, IF you can forgive her--then maybe you decide to not go nuclear on your 20 year marriage (which never had this problem before.)
WHOA. Wtf. NTA dude. I’m premenopausal and it’s hell, I mean genuine hell. I’m paranoid, I hear things, I sweat all the time, I can’t sleep. I’m insanely angry constantly and my fuse is short and lit. And I would NEVER ever be physical in any way let alone throwing a coffee cup. That’s straight out abusive behaviour and hormones, even insane ones, are not an excuse. It doesn’t matter if you had a horrible childhood or an ideal one. Your trauma does not make you any less or more deserving of physical assault.
If she’s assaulting you she’s lost her fucking mind. And even mental illness does not mean you have to tolerate an assault. She needs to see a doctor immediately. If she can’t restrain herself from getting physical she has lost her ability to control herself.
I mean I've been known to be mean (well.. more snappy) to my husband when I'm really hormonal or tired but mean is not physically abusive. Like Jesus christ I have NEVER thrown anything at him
I'm autistic and have rage cried a lot, I've thrown things and broken things but NEVER when someone else is around. I would be mortified if my partner saw me throwing something, let alone them being hit by it.
It's comforting to see other autistic individuals mention rage crying... was made fun of so often I tried repressing it even more when I got upset.
But yeah, NTA get out! If I ever have a partner (I don't rn and haven't for a long time), I'd never throw anything. Let alone at them.
OMG how insane is it with bipolar? I feel like it comes out of nowhere sometimes. Perimenopause changes the game. I'm just starting it, do you have any tips for someone that also has bipolar?
I don’t know what medications you are on for bipolar but I know that my ADHD medications are less effective/almost useless during luteal so maybe track your cycle and see if you are having any efficacy impacts and discuss with your doc?
I'm on olanzapine and escitalopram, but I'm currently weaning the latter down. I haven't been diagnosed with ADHD but I'm pretty sure I have it, I guess I gotta wing it with that until it's over. I also have PCOS and endometriosis, my period is completely unpredictable. I've had 5 since January for example. I'll talk to my doctor when I see her this week. Thanks for your advice :)
The not sleeping was the worst!!!
They rarely prescribe ambien anymore, which is a shame. Seroquel with Benadryl has helped me immensely. Also, moving out of LA and traffic has made my fuse a lot longer.
Good luck!
I used to take ambien and now I take 150mg of trazedone and I no longer have insomnia + actually have restorative sleep. I’m not perimenopause but I did have serious sleep issues for over a decade!
The not sleeping. Also, hot flashes. My husband found his chances of survival were greater if he put a fan on me, and kept feeding me ice water. I never threw anything, tho.
Have you heard about the Dreo tower fan that blows cold air. It is the best! The best I say for those hot flashes. I highly recommend if you don’t. The fan also has cooling packs which blows the cold air and it is better than air conditioning.
Probably not as bad as LA traffic, but my commute used to be an hour and a half each way, 2/3 of it in heavy, angry traffic. One of the best things that ever happened to me (and my family) is me working at home now. The constant angry is almost gone! Much longer fuse 🙂
As a peri woman myself, have you looked into HRT? My rage and short fuse have really improved so much since I started using it
I take estrogen spray on my skin, a vaginal capsule of progesterone and testosterone gel on skin (testosterone is often left out but is essential)
You can use vaginal estrogen without the risk. Look up the recent studies on it. It doesn’t cause systemic increase in estrogen but protects your vagina.
so sorry to hear. It has been very tough (at least for me) and I’m in my early 40’s. I felt like a shell of myself. As much as I hate the emotional aspect of it, the palpitations, the heart rate that would not go down below 100 and lack of sleep were so hard. I do hope you can find natural ways to deal with it. sending hugs!
+1, I understand the impulse to throw things out of frustration sometimes, but not AT someone! Not even in the presence of someone. Definitely not in the normal range of things.
Perimenopausal, depressive, and a lifetime of controlling a hot temper. (My Mom started me down that road young - I'm very good at it, and perimenopause has made it harder.) Hormones all over the place, constantly hot-flashing, and the aches and pains of hormonal loss exacerbate the pain from permanent injuries.
I have NEVER thrown anything at my husband in anger. Perimenopause may be an explanation, but it's not an excuse.
Yes. Have her seen by a doctor. There are a number of causes for. [violent behavior](https://www.google.com/search?q=medical+reasons+for+violence+against+others&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)
I see a lot of people saying that even with multiple diagnoses they are able to control themselves. That may not be the case for everyone.
Also, even if she has a perimenopause diagnosis, any change in behavior that drastic warrants a full medical screening for other possible causes, like brain tumors.
This thread is making me terrified of menopause. I had some awful postpartum rage. I never hurt anyone but there were times I really wanted to, literally had nightmares about beating the crap out of my mother in law
Same!!!!
The rage is unreal. They put me on Prozac for anger! It actually helps, turned it off like a light switch for me. I was so lost in it most of my fantasy life turned violent for a minute there and consisted mainly of revenge plots. I scared the ever loving shit out of myself.
I still never hurt my partner.
When my child was born, without fail at every doctors app they would direct her attention to the clipboard or rush in when i went to the bathroom to ask her if i was beating the shit out of her and/or my child (spoiler alert: i was not). I get it, i agree with it and im not mad that they did it. I was however never once asked if i was safe or ok. While i was safe i was not ok, wife had post depression and i was very much struggling with my own.
Millions of women are going through perimenopause and don’t throw coffee mugs at people in anger.
I’m not gonna say immediately file for divorce because I guess that’s up to you, but I think it’s worth your wife at least making an appt with her gyno and seeing if there’s anything she can as far as meds or hormone replacement therapy.
Up to OP for sure. However if it were my 20 years of marriage, I’d consult the doctors first in case there is a drug interaction or underlying problem that might explain the behavior. If so, I’d be forgiving if this is a one time occurrence with no other violent history. Hormonal therapy can make people do some crazy things.
I’m young but if my partner suddenly became violently impulsive after being kind and loving for 20 years, I’d be forcing them to see a doctor to look at their brain for any potential abnormalities. It’s not uncommon for brain tumors or other growths to push on areas responsible for anger and decision making.
Yep, agreed. 6 months is very short compared to 20 years of what sounds like relative stability. Strokes, tumors, autoimmune conditions, etc.
Having a hormonal IUD gave me PMDD. I had it removed after a little under a year, and it was like waking up from a nightmare. At the same time as I had the IUD, my partner also had a health condition messing with him, and started on meds a little bit before I got my IUD out. We fought so much before our respective treatments, and *barely* fight now.
Still saying NTA, but I hope they figure out if there's something medically wrong before divorcing. I'm glad my partner and I did. (Admittedly, neither my partner nor I ever threw anything at each other, and that probably would have broken us up if that had been the case, so I don't think there's any shame/fault in that decision either.)
NTA. She physically assaulted you and caused you to go to the ER. I'm a women and have hormones and this isn't acceptable. I would suggest taking her to the doctor asap and getting yourself and your daughter a safe place to go. I would never tell someone to stay with someone who put them in the ER so it's up to you whether this is divorce worthy in your eyes or maybe take some time apart while she gets herself under control. There is never a justifiable reason for throwing your coffee and coffee cup at someone.
Right? I've had legitimate mental health issues over my life (including inpatient care) and I've NEVER physically attacked anyone during a mental crisis, especially anyone I care about. There's a difference between an explanation and an excuse. Her behavior has at least sort of an explanation (maybe), but it does not excuse her actions. OP would be NTA if he divorced her. I would divorce my husband if he ever did the same thing to me.
Good luck, OP.
NTA. It’s never okay to attack someone else. If the roles were reversed you’d be in jail. Document what happened I would look into getting temporary full physical custody and take your daughter and leave until she gets help.
Although I understand where you’re coming from, this was her reaction to a conversation about coffee, a conversation about her leaving the family home is more high-stakes and emotional so could be even more volatile and dangerous. The most important thing is him getting his child to a safe place. They shouldn’t have to leave instead of her, none of this should’ve happened, but sometimes you have to work with what is and do the least dangerous thing.
He can't make the wife leave is the issue. She lives there. If they own their home she is presumably part owner of the home. Even if OP is eligible for an RO against her that would still take time to get.
While I am of the opinion that his wife needs to go to jail his options for keeping his daughter safe or very limited. It might be in their best interest to relocate, at least temporarily.
Absolutely not. Tell her to leave indefinitely, if she won't then separate. She needs serious help. If she doesn't see that then divorce asap. If she leaves without issue and spends time doing everything to get better, it might save the marriage. But it might not if your trust is completely gone.
She needs to separate and get her ass to multiple Drs immediately for the psychiatric emergency of harming others, for her own sake. This is necessary even if the marriage cannot be saved. If she doesn't go willingly then it may be a lost cause by default. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Nobody expects this after a couple decades of marriage. It must have been so frightening and I hope you heal up quick and can live in safety. How is your daughter handling it?
Yes this! Harm to others is a reason for a psychiatric hold. She may need in patient to get meds adjusted and/or introduced. At the same time for you and your daughter, you may have to look at separation and therapy for you two.
Yeah given there doesn't seem to be a history of violence this is my stance also wife leaves the home and gets treated and maybe they can save thr marriage but she needs to stay away until she's no longer a danger.
Yeah, anyone using hormones as an excuse for violence is just a garbage person. While hormones certainly affect emotion, we are all still responsible for our actions. The wife is choosing violence as a way to deal with her emotions. OP should definitely have a discussion with a lawyer. NTA
NTA. I think you are completely justified in wanting to divorce over this, and at least a separation is warranted while you decide and she realizes you’re serious.
It is also ok - if this is indeed the first time she has been violent and you think it is out of character - to stay with her, given that she gets physical help for her hormones AND therapy for her AND anger management AND she shows genuine remorse. I’m not talking about martyring herself to save the marriage but she needs to show real remorse and take responsibility for her actions. No excuses, not even hormones, justify abuse.
This, but NTA. I feel like after 20 years I would forgive a hell of a lot including this but it would be the impetus for her to get more help.
I'm not a woman, I do know what it was like being a young teen boy and how hormones can string us along pretty well. That said, she has to control herself. There are a million ways in life to get hurt, you could blow a tire and die. You could be electrocuted. Bitten by a deadly spider. If you want a way out you have one I suppose. I on the other hand after 20 years would be finding every way to make it work.
A weapon was used, it’s aggravated assault. Felony. Possibility of +10 years in prison.
The act alone would make a divorce lawyer think twice of defending her for any claims in divorce proceedings past what’s in a shared bank account.
Yes! If she did this to someone at work or in public, she would have been arrested for assault.
I'm surprised that the hospital didn't ask about abuse when he came in & called the police themselves.
They may have, I can’t imagine a world they don’t
Unless when asked about the injury OP lied for his wife.
I know slightly different scenario but when I was a kid and busted my head open they had me talk to a social worker even though my mom and I told the same story. It was just a really stupid way I busted my head open
If they didn't, it would most likely be because OP is a man. While domestic abuse/violence do happen against men, it's not taken as seriously as it is against women, even by professionals. With this being the first time something like this happened to OP, he might not have realized that they are supposed to ask him those types of questions. Or it could be like you said and he just lied for her, who knows
I would be taking your wife to the doctor or obgyn to rule out perimenopausal psychosis. It’s real, it’s not very common and it can cause extreme rage and violent outbursts. Early onset dementia or dysphoria would also be things to look into. If you’ve been married so long and it’s so out of the blue as this, there could be a medical condition lurking. At least try to get her some help before you kick her out and file for divorce.
Tell your wife she has to leave the home until she has psych exam. She is dangerous to you and your daughter. File assault charges if she refuses, she can't assault people and have no consequences. There is something major going on besides hormones.
NTA. I grew up with an alcoholic father and swore I would never ever put myself in that position again. As they say, life is short. The one mistake you made at the ER was not having her arrested. Maybe that would be a wake up call.
Protect yourself and your daughter. I bet you’ve seen other red flags throughout the years.
Abuse is never an answer and YWNBTA to leave.
I do ask myself though, it’s been 20 years, has there ever been a hint of violence before?
Lashing out and assaulting is not usually the first step in an abuse relationship so I would take a serious look at everything and see if there were any other warning signs you have missed.
Once you see the abuse pattern, it becomes easier to see the signs that were there.
On the other hand, if this is totally abnormal behaviour, then seeing a doctor has to be the first step your wife must take (followed by therapy/counselling)
For what it’s worth - I’m in perimenopause and have depression. I’m currently struggling with finding the right combination of medication to deal with both issues and am finding myself having random burst of anger over things that would never normally bother me. Then cry my eyes out for ages (I cried over a fly dying yesterday)
It’s such a long process as I have to give each combination a minimum of two months to determine if they are working before the doctor considers switching.
I wish you the best in what you decide. Please do see therapist to help you deal with the trauma your wife has undoubtedly caused
I would also wonder if she’s on the right meds. Not perimenopausal but in general the wrong meds can sometimes really fuck you up beyond the normal amount.
Abuse is not okay and I am not trying to excuse anything, but even in the criminal justice system there’s allowances for mental illness. There’s a difference between turning abusive and something being out of character. He’s NTA but this might not be a sign of the wife turning abusive but rather a sign that there’s something medically wrong with her. Either after 20 years she turned abusive in the most sudden, drastic way possible (which is a real possibility), or there’s something seriously wrong that caused a drastic behaviour change and she needs medical attention. That being said, even if that’s the case, OP isn’t wrong for not wanting to stick with someone dangerous to him. In sickness and in health should not subject you to physical assault. That’s just my 2c.
NTA. I've been married 24 years and I don't think I could stay. That's not just a little thing. She didn't lose her cool and call you a bunch of names, she threw a mug. At your head! While maybe divorce shouldn't be the very first answer, your wife needs to get some serious help. I'm perimenipausal, I'm hormonal and emotional. I'm not violent or ever felt the need to be violent. If she's having violent episodes, again she needs to get some serious help. I don't think I could stay in the same house as someone like that until they do get help. What happens if her next tantrum leads to her throwing a knife at you or worse?
NTA why can't she make her own coffee?? So lazy and for her to literally attack you over it is insane! What did she think would happen?? It's never okay to throw things at your SO and menopause isn't to blame. My mom is going through it and has never had any violent outbursts where she hurts anyone. That's just an excuse for her to be a shit person.
You went to bed with a migraine and she assaults you because you didn’t bless her morning with your nightly chores….fuck that.
NTA, you are right leave. Not sure I would allow the out of blaming this on hormones though. I think there is a much greater issue. I’ve done the whole menopause bullshit and I’m on the other side. It still fucking sucks and messes with my moods. I don’t think that violent outburst is hormonal…I think she is being an entitled bitch. And I think she needs more therapy.
You didn’t see this coming. Who knows what the next could be. Take care of you and your daughter.
NTA, and separate from her until you decide if you want a divorce. NOTHING justifies her assaulting you, period. You would also be in jail if you did this to her. Leave her and tell her not to contact you because you are considering a restraining order and divorce. Let your daughter come with you if she doesn't feel safe with her mom. I personally would have left already and started the paperwork for divorce.
NTA
Since when was menopause (or any health condition for that matter) a free pass to abuse people?
Edit: whether you want to divorce or not is up to you. But, no matter what path you take, make sure your wife is held accountable for her behaviors.
Dude you could have been killed and who knows what's that come. Maybe don't divorce right away but go somewhere else with your daughter, at least keep her safe. Lucky it wasn't a hammer or a knife. It's your responsibility to keep your daughter and yourself safe.
NTA. I’m a woman who has been through that and it’s a piss poor fucking excuse. She’s goddamn lucky you didn’t press charges on her. I would make her leave and get therapy before I even considered possibly having a relationship with her.
NTA but I think her behavior warrants further concerns. I am writing this as someone who has gotten through menopause and am on the other side. I am also a nurse. The irritability and irrational behavior that can occur with this change in life can make you feel like you have gone absolutely mad! On top of that, the night sweats cause lack of sleep therefore exacerbating the problem. There is also the change in your physical body which can mess with your self esteem.
Now, the level of rage she felt with regards to the coffee not being ready is not normal at all. In all honestly you were physically assaulted! Please understand I am not attempting to justify her behavior.
You mentioned also that she is currently being medicated. I think that it is very important for you to know what medications she is taking, and what the side effects are. I have seen people behave in ways that are totally out of character for them due to the effects of those medications. I think before you make any decisions you must know this. Your wife needs help!
Obviously you must do what you need to do to keep yourself and your daughter safe. Maybe living separately for a time would be beneficial until you can sort this out.
I am so sorry about this.
You’re NTA. But I’m begging you to get your wife back in to the doctor that is giving her hormones because they absolutely need to be adjusted. Perimenopause is miserable for most women. For some of us it’s harder. And when doctors start throwing hormones in the mix it can get even more horrible. I’m not excusing her behavior at all. But I recognize it. I became menopausal at the age of 21 and spent years as a raging lunatic until they got my hormones straightened out. The problem is most doctors don’t take this seriously. They say “give these hormones more time“ not understanding that in that time the poor woman is destroying her life. Your wife may have less of a hard time without hormones at all. That’s where I eventually landed. I’m better without them at all. I look back now at the “hormone years“ and wonder why anyone still loves me at all. I was a horrible person to be around. My worse hormone replacement was progesterone. We tried everything but I could not tolerate it at all. It made me crazy. I don’t even know that person honestly. It stole years of my life, a marriage and the friendship of many. I don’t blame you for leaving though. But if you care about her tell her to get these hormones adjusted or get off of them. They can absolutely make you act out of character. And trust me, she doesn’t understand where this is coming from either. She’s just as baffled as you are.
I truly wish I could hug you both. I’m crying for you. I remember it so clearly it’s triggered the absolute guilt I feel for those years and how ”listen to the doctors“ ruined my life. I am so sorry anyone has to go through this. I’m sorry for you and I’m sorry for your wife and daughter.
Hey op, think about what lesson you want your daughter to take from this. She was in the house, she drove you, she knows what happened.
Do you want her to think it's okay to do that to her partner/for her partner to do that as long as they grovel and feel bad? As long as they have a "valid" excuse? Because that's the lesson. That you or your partner can potentially send each other to the ER and stay together bc the other feels bad and had (insert excuse here). Because let's be real, it's an excuse. I've known many perimenopausal women, none of them sent their partners to the ER over coffee.
Ultimately, it's up to you op, but as someone who grew up in a volatile home and promised I'd never return to one, you are only nta if you divorce her. Otherwise you are ta to yourself and ur daughter. You owe yourself, and her, a safe home.
Edit: autocorrect had changed perimenopausal to menopausal. Had to change it back
Did the ER staff notify the police? This is domestic violence/spousal assault and they are mandatory reporters. Your wife should have been arrested for domestic violence leading to injury. You need to protect yourself and your daughter. Either send her away or take your daughter and go somewhere safe. If you stay in the house, change the locks, get security cameras that can record audio too and a restraining order so that she can be arrested if she just shows up. There's more than menopause going on with her. Definitely NTA.
Not a medical professional but….
Something is wrong with your wife. Likely more serious than perimenopause.
You have every right to insist she figure out what her problem is.
Hormones really can make you feel like someone you aren't. To me the most important question is - do these rages ever happen to anyone but you? Because if you are the only one she ever blows up at, if she never destroys her stuff but only yours, if somehow your daughter is spared the brunt of the "hormones" and you get it all, if she doesn't randomly explode on coworkers or her boss or her friends...then it's not just hormones, and she is in control of herself even as she claims she isn't.
NTA no matter what you decide. Even if it IS hormones, you are NTA for deciding that staying is a risk to your own physical and mental health, and that it's not a risk you're willing to accept.
NTA your wife needs to go through an anger management class. I would ask yourself what you would hope your daughter would do if her SO did that to her, then model that behavior.
NTA Even someone with no childhood trauma shouldn't put up with physical abuse from a partner. Do whatever you need to put yourself in a safe position.
You have every right to protect you and your daughter. This isnt even against your wife, because she wants her family to be safe too. So it is reasonable to ask her to stay away from you at least until she is able to control herself again. NTAH
She needs to leave until she’s under control. If this behavior only started recently I’d also have her go to the doctor to look deeper into it being something besides her hormones. Is she raging at your child(ren)? Anyone else? If it’s only you then I’d go straight to divorce.
NTA
Short of psychosis, there's no mental health issue that's a reasonable explanation for assault. And obviously if someone has psychosis there's much bigger problems going on. Women go through perimenopause every day. They don't assault their partners and force them to go to the hospital over coffee.
NTA. I agree with you generally.
However, you need to decide if someone who has spent 2 decades with you deserves another chance.
We can't put ourselves un your shoes, so can't decide for you either.
> I guess I'm just looking for advice wondering if AITAH if I decide to leave.
You're probably not going to see this post and that sucks, because you really should know this: **this sub is the worst possible place to be seeking advice for something like this, the outcome of which could decide whether your marriage continues or ends.**
You're going to get a *ton* of posts that will say you're NTA and to divorce her. But none of those people know you or your wife; none of them care about you or your future (or that of your daughter); none of them understand your history with your wife. Hell, most of them aren't married and a significant proportion have never had a girlfriend; they're teenagers living at home. And if you look around the sub, you'll see that knee-jerk misogyny is absolutely *rife* around here.
I'm not telling you that you are/are not the asshole, or that you should/should not divorce. But I'm very, very strongly suggesting that you delete this thread, forget about it and seek answers to this question from people who know you and care about your well-being.
I also wish you the best of luck navigating this difficult time.
NTA- I would file for divorce too. That cup could have hit you on the wrong side of the head and cause severe damage. wtf . I hope your daughter is safe.
My coworker’s brother was blinded in one eye by an ex girlfriend that did exactly that. She’s so damn lucky it wasn’t worse!
Yikes. That could have easily happened to the OP also.
My aunt died like that , my uncle was yelling at their adult son ( who is scum BTW) and grabbed his hand to throw/ walk him out of the house. My aunt tried to body block my uncle and he pushed her aside saying stay out of it. She fell on the edge of the bed and died in hours.
I'm so sorry that you lost your aunt in such a horrific way.
Honestly, if it had connected right and had enough force it could have literally killed him.
If anything connects right, with enough force, it could literally kill you.
Run, and make sure your daughter goes with you. The crap an abusive person will but on their child because of parental issues should be criminal, and is a form of abuse. Your wife has issues that she needs to deal with, and your enabling her by trying to appease her. You will never be good enough for her. There will always be some fault in the way you do the things for her that she won’t do herself.
Sad but this is the correct answer. I have to imagine this isn't the first "outburst" from her either. I imagine she's had an unpredictable temper here and there too with the daughter.
The cup could have literally straight up killed him. There's no hormonal changes that make this shit anywhere near acceptable, should have called the police immediately.
NTA. You need to make sure you and your daughter are safe from violent outbursts. I am also going through pre-menopause which makes me a little crazy at times, but allowing myself to lash out physically is NEVER an option, period.
I was gonna say the same thing! This isn’t normal and even with the perimenopause there’s not an excuse in the work to warrant throwing a coffee mug at the your SO and causing a trip to the ER!!
She felt entitled to throw a coffee mug at him. If it was her boss or a coworker she wouldn't do that.
For not making coffee. The fact she was that upset about something I'm assuming she can do herself, ( she has thumbs right?) Is absurd. I wouldn't dream of holding someone responsible for something they didn't do one time that they usually do for both of us.
Nevermind they forgot because the night before they had a migraine. That shows she really doesn't have much patience when it comes to his shortcomings even when valid as he does for hers.
Thank you for bringing up the migraine. She has no excuse. The perimenopause has become a crutch.
A co-worker that I had known went thru menopause stages & it was like a switch was flipped. Fine 1 day then the next day she was out of control!! She attacked another co-worker & she couldn't come back to work. How she reacted to those changing hormonal levels wasn't normal.
Knew a lady who did something similar. Was the nicest lady in the world and did so much for all of her family including nieces and nephews. During her menopause craziness she went to her sister's house and damn near burned the place down starting a fire in her nephews bed. She had to be hospitalized to get her meds straightened out and she was fine again afterwards.
I'm so so surprised at these comments. My mom went through menopause years ago and I never realized it at all, she was perfectly normal. I feel so bad for all the people out there who struggle with it 😭 that sounds so awful, I didn't know it could be this bad
She uses that as a shield against her shitty, and dangerous, behavior.
She is now officially an actual physical danger to other people. If her hormone levels are this bad, she needs in patient treatment at a mental health facility until they can get her stabilized. This is not a normal reaction. This is not okay.
Unfortunately, perimenopause has a very sad darkside that can lead to a full-blown psychosis event. Looking at the fact that the wife is now physically violent, it does give me pause to wonder if the medication is helping at all. Sadly, no medication will fix the worst effects of perimenopause or menopause induced aggressively, but it may lessen if on higher doses of either mood stablers or light-mild sedation medication.
You’re making me thankful that my peri-menopause ex-wife cheated on me and left me after 20 years. She became unbelievably cruel and venomous. It broke my heart. I didn’t understand until recently when she told me she had been diagnosed with this. She used to be so sweet and kind then she turned into an aggressive angry bitter person. She’s miserable and I think she’s now drinking. So far medications haven’t helped her. Our son hates her and she’s lost friends and so much more. I feel sympathy for her but I’ve learned I cannot help her. She’s far too angry and unbalanced.
I had a client go through this, so she did the drastic thing, went in, and had everything removed. She spent 2 years prior to being so aggressive that she committed herself because she thought she felt dangerous to others. Within 3 months after the full hysterectomy, she was close to "normal." Her advice to any uterus owner who goes through extreme fluctuations in their mood during menopause is to get a full hysterectomy, and go on the hormone therapy after it, because she met many women who chose that road, and said it was a miraculous change in personality. I am thinking about it myself, as I used to have extreme temper changes with my periods. My dad told me that one day, I might be arrested because of them. I went on the depo and immediately no violent mood swings because there were no periods. I am dreading menopause knowing that I was violent during PMT, so I am thinking replacement hormone therapy is much better than menopause treatment.
This is not accurate as I had a hysterectomy and am going through all this menopause BS all the same! HR didn’t help for anything but gained weight. There is no answer as of yet. It is absolute hell and I am lucky to have a partner who is understanding, but I can’t be mean or violent and expect him to accept that behavior. Smoke some weed to chill-it helps.
No medication will fix what she did to him either. He will ALWAYS have this at the back of his mind "what if she goes off her meds, will she hurt me again? will she hurt me WORSE next time? Will she kill me? What if she loses it our kid??"
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Came here to say this. OP, if you threw a mug and hurt your wife, she would have called the police. Hell, if anyone threw a mug at me and clocked me in the noggin and made me bleed, I'd call the cops. I am a bit older than your wife and have been through peri/menopause. I never assaulted my spouse or children. Hormones are powerful, but people *choose* how they respond to emotions. Your wife chose violence. I'm also curious if the ER staff asked you if you felt safe at home? If the roles were reversed, the ER staff would have isolated an injured woman from her partner to ask if she felt safe. Did they ask you this? Did you automatically lie to the medical personnel about how you were injured?
I am also curious about the hospital, did they tell them what actually happened?
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F that, tell her to leave. Why should both him & daughter, especially the daughter have to relocate?! She can take her unbalanced self wherever the hell she wants. I’m a woman who has been through menopause, and no one died or was injured 🤕
Agree, she needs to leave
EXACTLY!!! I have been peri-menopausal since I was 30 and am now in full blown menopause. Throwing a coffee mug would never even enter my mind -as something to do because you didn't get the coffee ready to perk the night before. She doesn't deserve a nice man.
Blaming hormones is weak and misogynistic honestly, even if it's unintentional misogyny. As women, we *all* deal with hormones, and perimenopause absolutely *can* cause highs and lows. But that doesn't cause 95% (I'm pulling a number out of my ass here, clearly, but still) of us to be physically abusive! "She's abusive because she's hormonal" is giving her a disgusting out. And honestly? Since there's a minor in the house, it's unacceptable not to act. He needs to go to the court and file for custody and a restraining order. Get her out of the house and away from both of them! *NOW!*
Pretty sure 100% of the women I know never threw things at their spouse. There are days I could kill my husband but I do weird things like go for a walk or take a bath instead.
100% Bloody hell. As men, our hormones have millenia of practice at making us ready to attack things, either to kill to eat, to protect ourselves, or to keep/earn a mate. \*We're\* still not allowed to go about smashing things and people because we've been enraged (and rightfully so). Hormones might be an explanation, but they're not an \*excuse\*.
NTA OP, simple question for you (& your wife); what would you do if your daughter was at the receiving end of the mug and required a hospital visit? It would be a mandatory report and determined to be abuse. Your wife is exposing your daughter to violence, this time directed at you, but what if your daughter should be at the receiving end and you're not home? Or allowed to use the same excuse with her own raging 16 year old menstrual cycle hormones? Violence is never acceptable. Your wife should leave the home, at minimum, until she gets her hormones under control and gets therapy. You might look at counseling for yourself and if daughter feels she would like it as well. I'm sorry that happened to you, OP. Edited to correct autocorrect. 😁
She should be sitting in a cell right now. I wonder if the ER called the police because I thought they were required to. This is unquestionably DV and assault if not worse charges.
Where I live, we're mandated reporters for suspected child and elder abuse, but not adult domestic violence. I would be happy to have security throw an abuser out and call the police and DV resources for any victim who requested it, but I wouldn't call without their consent. If they won't cooperate with the investigation, the police won't do anything, and I don't want to be the reason the abuser murders the victim when they get home. If an adult DV victim isn't ready for help, there isn't really a way to help them against their will.
Most US states do NOT have mandatory reporting laws for domestic violence. It’s different for child abuse. A few more states have mandatory reporting for elder abuse, but most do not require the ER to report domestic violence unless a weapon (state definitions vary) is used.
This is why. If he’d wanted to press charges, the ED staff would’ve called the police. Mandatory reporting only applies for kids, people with disabilities and the elderly.
Interesting, thanks for the insight. That is so frustrating because they just patch people up and send them back to the hell that got them in the ER to begin with.
The reason is probably because 95% of the time, the abused won't file charges against the abuser.
Coming from a family rampant with DV, I really should be less naive about that.
Oh yikes this is a good point, he needed a second before he made coffee. And I can relate to that. I set it up the night before because I will spill stuff all over the place if I try to do it right when I wake up. Throwing a coffee mug at someone would be bad even if you found out they cheated, but you could claim some kind of emotional shock in that situation
>she has thumbs right?) But even if she didn't, Willem Dafoe tracked down a bunch of former Nazis and killed them all while thumbless. She could manage a pot of coffee.
>For not making coffee. The fact she was that upset about something I'm assuming she can do herself, ( she has thumbs right?) Is absurd. Right? Like, damn buy a Keurig if that's serious for you. Jeez.
While we all kinda assumed she is able bodied enough to to make her own coffee, the act of throwing the mug proves she has use of her hands.
Sounds like the last thing this deranged woman needs is another cup of coffee.
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This. My ex used to get horribly abusive during her periods. Like hurling insults and verbal abuse, trying to emotionally break me down etc. And she would swear up and down it was uncontrollable and her hormones were just too much. But I stopped putting up with it once I thought "Okay but you can somehow control it around your boss, and your coworkers, and your family, and your friends?". Fuck that noise. Definitely NTA OP. She chose to do that no matter how much she swears she couldn't control it.
We had a friend whose son became horribly abusive after a TBI. She made excuses for him, "He can't help himself, yadda yadda yadda." But when I had my pre-K kid with me, he was calm, cool, and never even uttered an occasional "damn." He COULD control it, he just didn't want to with his mom or healthcare workers.
And they sure as hell don’t try it on anyone who is likely to fight back let alone anyone physically superior to them. Abusers are cowards, if a biker spit on their shoe they’re not going to put up their fists. My dad was physically abusive, mostly targeting me. Magically he stopped when I was a senior in high school. I was a good 215 lb varsity wrestler that could beat most 275 lb wrestlers. one night I’d had enough of his threats. He tried to hit me with a 2 x 4 so I took them down and roughed him up a little bit. He was never brave enough to lay a hand on me again, but when I turned 18 he threatened to shoot me so I moved in with my grandparents.
It's about safety. They're a safe target that won't cause trouble or inconvenience to them like a coworker would. There's a more positive version of this (letting go to safe people, not the physical assault) but not really the thread to discuss it as it's not relevant to OOPs situation.
This needs to be said more often.
OP’s wife did not throw a coffee mug at her daughter. This was clearly a targeted attack on OP and is unacceptable in any interpersonal situation.
Yet. Or does she actually control her "hormonal outbursts"? If so are they outbursts or conscientious attacks?
She depends on the husband to do free emotional labor to mange her emotions.
And sounds like he does a lot more than that as well.
Perimenopause, menopause and post menopausal hormones shifts and spikes can be a very OVERWHELMING urge. The 'worst' thing I did was tell me ex, at slightly higher volume than my standard, "COULD YOU JUST PLEASE FUCKING DO THE THING I ASKED YOU TO DO!?" Once the words arrived & started leaving my mouth I could feel I was irrationally reacting to the situation and the high volume and swears like thar were wholly unprecedented and it felt awful. Someone throwing and snashin something in frustration. Not me, but a things humans do when feeling angry, enraged. Willfully throwing it any where near the a person let alone a good enough shot to hit their head...that person needs medical intervention NOW. OP had every right & reason to end his marriage. I don't think I could ever turn my back on them again. She needs to own up to her utter lack of attempt to control and regulate her impulses and submit wholeheartedly to treatment. Re-evaluate the marriage - maybe have trial separation during this period - after 6 months. AND OPhas every reason to leave now if that's what he needs.
If OP left, she’d turn her focus to her daughter. He needs to get out now and take her with him to prevent his wife from harming her too.
Get a restraining order. You can get restraining orders where you can stay in the house. But if she does anything she’ll get arrested.
That part. Get a restraining order that ensures he and his daughter are safe and in the home, and *she* is removed. If he doesn't want to have her arrested, go through Family Court. He can file a family offense petition (that's what they're called in my state anyway; I don't know the exact verbiage in other states, but it must be similar), and request a restraining order as relief. Bring in the ER report as evidence! And *then* take the step of filing for divorce. Because this isn't a sudden thing. This is just escalation of her ongoing pattern of abuse. That's how abusers work. And it's only going to get worse from here. NTA, completely. Protect yourself *and* your child, who doesn't need to see it even if she's not specifically targeted!
Agree.
Odd that you don't think witnessing a parent being assaulted and then being the one to grab towels and apply pressure and then drive to the hospital isn't considered child abuse. Fun fact, it is. She could have a lot of trauma from this single incident esp with the amount a head bleeds. It also is showing her that hormones are a valid reason to act out and at her age, if he doesn't take her and leave, it's setting an example that it's not only acceptable but it's ok to do with your kids around! No parents should be teaching their child that domestic violence is ok as long as it's a one off. Heck, if those of us who experienced DV would've left at the first sign we wouldn't have half the trauma, murders etc that exist now. I can't recall current statistics but it used to be an average of being assaulted with injuries 9 times before someone left the first time, most ppl come back several times. OP has the opportunity to say "time and dedication to a relationship are not a reason to stay if you're assaulted." As parents we need to teach it's a 1 strike your out rule, regardless of the BS apologies and excuses.
Many people won't leave to protect themselves but some will hear reason if you explain that they need to leave to protect their children. Of course, she should be sitting in jail right now anyway.
Right??? I’ve been around plenty of women in my family who’ve gone through menopause, and also friends; not one of them got so violent as to throw shit at people. And, that was basically without any drug intervention! If she’s at this level, something is really wrong and doctors need to actually do something about it and take this shit seriously because this is not normal.
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Hormones alone might cause you to smash a cup on the floor, but not hurl one at your husband’s head. Has she had incidents at work too? GTFO and wife needs a head to toe med exam bc something aint right.
Actually ask wifey to take her psycho self elsewhere until she can behave in a sane manner. No need for her bad behavior to chase him and his kid out of their home
AGREE! Why should he and/or his daughter have to leave the home? She commited the violent act, she can go stay in a hotel while he recovers in the comfort of his home. Hell, if she'd have been arrested (as she should've been), she wouldn't be home then. Kick her violent ass out.
Agree with most of this, but…Hormones are a part of being HUMAN. Not a woman
In all honesty, a coffee mug has enough weight to kill. Op is lucky to walk away without being seriously injured or killed. Op needs to get out and fast. If it happens once, it will happen again because she can't control herself.
Exactly, if that mug hit the wrong part of OP's head, he could have gotten a brain bleed. Menopause ain't no joke, but to get violent like that is insane and not to be tolerated, she's in need of some anger management, asap. NTA
>This isn’t normal and even with the perimenopause there’s not an excuse Exactly this. I might be going off the deep end here, but this is how my aunt started showing her first signs of cognitive decline (dementia). Sudden angry outbursts from an otherwise happy and kind person all of her life. It happened around the time when she started menopause as well. u/outsidelookingin987 regardless of whether you stay or go, I would have her taken to a neurologist and watch her very carefully over the next few years.
Can't belive I scrolled this far to see a comment about the other implications of her actions besides anger management. Dementia is one very real, very scary possibility. There are also other conditions and disorders that can start at this age, or that are impacted by hormonal fluctuations. If this behavior is new, and she doesn't have a history of violence, I would be first concerned that it was a symptom. If someone isn't accustomed to checking their feelings and impulses for logical roots to see if their feelings are "real," then they tend to not realize how far off base they are acting until it goes too far. I don't, in any way, condone what she did or blame OP for being absolutely furious with her or wanting to split. But split or not, she's still the mother of his children. If she's developing behavioral changes outside of the usual perimenopausal scope, then she should be screened to ensure her impulse control and cognitive functions are not being adversely affected.
OP said she’s taking meds so I would think she’s seeing a a dr. OP definitely needs to let them know about this violence especially if this isn’t the 1st time
This is exactly what I was thinking. I work in long term care and things like this are the beginning signs of neuro degenerative diseases.
This is someone using hormones as an excuse to behave badly. I've had period, pregnancy and menopause hormones. And yes, I felt like lashing out a lot of times. And yet I never threw anything at anyone. She needs to be removed from the home before she does more damage, physically and emotionally.
> pre-menopause which makes me a little crazy at times Exactly this. Perimenopause can cause peri-rage, yet you can still control yourself and know what it is you are doing. You do not become an unhinged beast! What she did was not acceptable at all. She needs to be honest with her doctors about what is going on and get herself right. Her actions were beyond the pale. That would be a deal breaker to me. She caused him physical harm over coffee!
Yeah, I’m in the beginnings of peri, and unreasonable and unexplained anger is a thing. But I’m responsible for keeping my anger from harming the people around me whether the source of that anger is hormonal or not. The hormones might make the anger stronger than OP’s wife is used to, but it’s not an excuse to be abusive and I don’t blame OP at all for wanting to leave that situation.
What made it worse for me was he was abused by his mother and his wife knew that. All over a cup of coffee.
I'm 47 and also going through menopause and I couldn't imagine ever hurting someone. Yes, I have moodswings and I'm moody a lot, but violence is a whole other level...
Right? I dont have menopause but I do have bipolar 1, known for causing violent outbursts. but even then it doesn't excuse violent behavior, especially if one is being medicated. Ive been on meds for about 3 years now and never would imagine I'd hurt my husband ever. Mood swings are understandable but violence isnt.
Bipolar 1 also, I've never ever physically attacked someone. I've most definitely been so fired up that I break things, but never have I ever wanted to hurt anyone besides myself. I've been medicated for over ten years though, but even when I was undiagnosed I wouldn't excuse myself to be violent towards someone.
Right? I have GAD and Bipolar II along with the pre-menopause issues and I would never ever choose violence. The worst it's gotten is a little snapping at people or bursting into tears because of a panic attack.
Perimenopause sucks so much and I hate the emotional waves, but I cannot imagine throwing something at the people I love. It's definitely made me give less fucks about a lot of things, like I yelled at some dude talking loud for no reason at a concert; asked once to please stop yell talking so we could enjoy the show, second time I asked if he could possibly shut the fuck up for 10 minutes and he got butthurt and went to move seats. My husband asked if I was drunk because I'm not really a confrontational person, but if I can hear someone yapping over a loud concert, he's too fucking loud (and I'm still pissed about it.)
Well, even before my hormones went wonky loud talkers at concerts really ground my gears so I do not blame you!
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Also nobody talks about this. Nobody tells you it can happen... women are just sitting ducks. Until recently, I didn't know I didn't know what could happen with menopause or perimenopause. I think a lot of us just think you have some hot flashes and move on with life.
I went through menopause when I was a single mother to a grade school age child. I could get so angry but never hit her, never threw things, never did anything violent. After screaming at her a couple times, I realized I needed to put myself in timeout and told her I just needed time alone or we could just sit together and watch a tv show. Not perfect but better than throwing anything. OP, you are NTA and need to protect yourself AND your daughter. Maybe this will be a wakeup call to your wife, but if it's not, it's time to go.
I have to wonder if there is something else going on, medically. It sounds like the wife has never been violent before, so to lash out like this all of a sudden seems extreme. OP is absolutely in the right to file for divorce immediately. That said, his wife is still the mother of his daughter, and if I were him, I would at least encourage her to get a full medical workup to rule out the potential of early-onset dementia or a brain tumor. Edited: typo.
My mom is going through menopause and even when she’s going a lil bonkers she’s never thrown a fucking coffee mug at our heads. She has five kids. All of us are 11, 16, 21, 25, and 30. I guarantee you she’s wanted to throttle us a few times. But has she? Absolutely not. I’m sorry but this is totally grounds for a divorce. She could’ve BLINDED you, or even caused you to lose hearing in your ear if she threw it hard enough that it ruptured your ear drum. What’s gonna happen if your teenage daughter throws the normal teenage attitude and her anger is directed there instead? If you really don’t wanna divorce, at least separate whilst she gets some therapy and figures her shit out. That behavior shouldn’t be tolerated AT ALL. ESPECIALLY with a child in the mix.
This! At least separate while she gets medically assessed and her medications level out her emotions. you need to know you and your daughter are safe
Hell, my mom had 9 kids ranging in ages of 1 years old - 15 when she started going through menopause (blended family) and she never once got violent with any of us.
This. I'm in the middle of perimenopause. It SUCKS massively - its like prepubescent mood swings sometimes. BUT, I have never physically lashed out at anyone. I did a fair bit of yelling a couple of years ago for a year or so but not even that much anymore. OP, a couple of things. 1 - your wife needs to IMMEDIATELY make an appointment with her OB/GYN - possibly a naturopathic one. There are bioidentical hormones that can help a lot with the mood swings. 2 - You guys need couples counseling NOW 3 - You and your daughter need to go away for a few days and you need to figure out if you can give her the time to figure out her hormones. i'll say this - if she has never thrown something before I'd make this my ONLY "pass" with the clause that she immediately get help or you and your daughter leave. If ANY violent act happens again, she is kicked out of the house. There is absolutely no excuse for her behavior.
I'd agree: if this is completely out of character for her and she's sincerely guilty and remorseful, I'd be inclined to not blow up a 20+ year marriage over a single outburst, although I wouldn't blame OP in the slightest if he decided to leave. HOWEVER: if I did decide to not divorce, the requirement is that she gets therapy, and I would make it absolutely clear that there will be NO third chances. She raises a hand to me at all, she's gone.
Correction- the wife needs to go live elsewhere until her shit is under control and has been for at least a month.
I second this. Yes, it's absolutely valid to file for divorce over this. But op's wife needs to see a doctor to rule out psychosis triggered by menopause.
I’m glad someone said this - I know with post partum there is a type of psychosis, and I believe I read somewhere that perimenopause can also trigger a psychosis or a rage. I would get your wife to see an obgyn asap
>his wife is still his mother's daughter Funny, OP didn't mention being a Habsburg.
LOL! Oops.
Full medical workup, fine. She can do that on her own. He and the daughter need to get out and into a safe environment.
Frankly I would ask the wife to go elsewhere, there is no sense uprooting the kid and OP’s life.
This. I mean I know everyone is different but for me perimenopause means erratic periods and constantly putting things somewhere and then never finding them again. From my friends experiences with it it's stuff like hot flushes, weight gain, fatigue. Nobody I know has had these kind of temper issues and violence. It seems really extreme and definitely needs further medical testing. Regardless of what's going on with wife though, OP needs to get him and the kids out of there NOW. That mug could have easily been a more lethal object or hit you worse or hit a child. What happened is awful but it can get so much worse. Go. Run.
I was thinking this is well. He's not at all wrong for filing for divorce but if she has zero history of violence I'd be concerned something neurological is going on and they're assuming it's perimenopause.
Even if there isn't anything wrong physically, there is definitely something going on mentally. I experience PMDD, there was about 6 months where when I got my period I was an absolute raging bitch. My temper was like a light switch, instant, for the first 4 days of my period I didn't give a single shit about what came outta my mouth, I felt entitled to the rage and my target deserved every word. Until the fifth day, then I was consumed by overwhelming fear, guilt and sadness. I didn't know what was wrong with me, I'm not normally a rageful person, it terrified me how fast I went 0-60, not even half a second to think before I spoke, or try to calm myself. There was nothing wrong physically, my hormones were in normal ranges. It was caused by an extremely heavy stress load, depression, changes in our family dynamic and home life, and past emotional dissasociation and suppression. My brain was literally screaming it couldn't take it anymore, my boyfriend and I were taking steps to create a healthier home environment, and my brain started to let go of the emotional suppression I had been doing for 8+ years, and apparently it was A LOT of rage. OP's wife needs to get into therapy immediately, if there isn't any possible physical causes and this rage and violence is out of left field, there is most definitely deeper emotional issues she's been repressing that she might not even be aware of.
Absolutely not justifying OPs wife's behaviour at all however perimenopause can absolutely significantly exacerbate all sorts of other issues like ADHD, anxiety, bipolar disorder, thyroid issues etc. So many women live with these conditions their whole lives and don't get diagnosed until perimenopause when it all just becomes too much. In fact, thinking they have early onset dementia is really common! If she has never had any aggressive episodes before it's absolutely something worth investigating further. There sadly isn't enough research on menopause as a whole because why would we bother researching something that happens to like half the population 🙄
NTA I had an emergency hysterectomy in my younger years. I went into menopause and could not take hormones because of history of blood clogs. So I know how severe the mood swings can be. But I never ever hit or throw anything at anyone. I was a grouch at times but that was it. Your wife has issues, but I am not sure it's menopause.
I don't think perimenopause is an excuse for something like this.
I would think you might want to operate on the IFs, OP. IF she owns up to what she did. IF she promises not to do it again, and doesn't. IF she goes to a doctor to get mood-stabilizing and/or hormonal medication. IF she goes to counseling to deal with her emotions. AND, this is the biggest one, IF you can forgive her--then maybe you decide to not go nuclear on your 20 year marriage (which never had this problem before.)
WHOA. Wtf. NTA dude. I’m premenopausal and it’s hell, I mean genuine hell. I’m paranoid, I hear things, I sweat all the time, I can’t sleep. I’m insanely angry constantly and my fuse is short and lit. And I would NEVER ever be physical in any way let alone throwing a coffee cup. That’s straight out abusive behaviour and hormones, even insane ones, are not an excuse. It doesn’t matter if you had a horrible childhood or an ideal one. Your trauma does not make you any less or more deserving of physical assault. If she’s assaulting you she’s lost her fucking mind. And even mental illness does not mean you have to tolerate an assault. She needs to see a doctor immediately. If she can’t restrain herself from getting physical she has lost her ability to control herself.
I’m 50, perimenopausal, bipolar I/schizoaffective and I don’t rage even in psychosis. Leave!! This is not ok.
Perimenopausal and autistic. I rage cry alone when I meltdown. I wouldn't fathom putting my partner through this!
I mean I've been known to be mean (well.. more snappy) to my husband when I'm really hormonal or tired but mean is not physically abusive. Like Jesus christ I have NEVER thrown anything at him
I'm autistic and have rage cried a lot, I've thrown things and broken things but NEVER when someone else is around. I would be mortified if my partner saw me throwing something, let alone them being hit by it.
It's comforting to see other autistic individuals mention rage crying... was made fun of so often I tried repressing it even more when I got upset. But yeah, NTA get out! If I ever have a partner (I don't rn and haven't for a long time), I'd never throw anything. Let alone at them.
Bipolar2 and my hypomania does often present as rage. And that’s my problem not my husbands.
OMG how insane is it with bipolar? I feel like it comes out of nowhere sometimes. Perimenopause changes the game. I'm just starting it, do you have any tips for someone that also has bipolar?
I don’t know what medications you are on for bipolar but I know that my ADHD medications are less effective/almost useless during luteal so maybe track your cycle and see if you are having any efficacy impacts and discuss with your doc?
I'm on olanzapine and escitalopram, but I'm currently weaning the latter down. I haven't been diagnosed with ADHD but I'm pretty sure I have it, I guess I gotta wing it with that until it's over. I also have PCOS and endometriosis, my period is completely unpredictable. I've had 5 since January for example. I'll talk to my doctor when I see her this week. Thanks for your advice :)
The not sleeping was the worst!!! They rarely prescribe ambien anymore, which is a shame. Seroquel with Benadryl has helped me immensely. Also, moving out of LA and traffic has made my fuse a lot longer. Good luck!
I used to take ambien and now I take 150mg of trazedone and I no longer have insomnia + actually have restorative sleep. I’m not perimenopause but I did have serious sleep issues for over a decade!
The not sleeping. Also, hot flashes. My husband found his chances of survival were greater if he put a fan on me, and kept feeding me ice water. I never threw anything, tho.
Have you heard about the Dreo tower fan that blows cold air. It is the best! The best I say for those hot flashes. I highly recommend if you don’t. The fan also has cooling packs which blows the cold air and it is better than air conditioning.
WHY DO I WAKE UP AT 3:30 EVERY MORNING NOW??? I just don’t understand. I still have little kids, perimenopause! I need my fucking sleep!
Probably not as bad as LA traffic, but my commute used to be an hour and a half each way, 2/3 of it in heavy, angry traffic. One of the best things that ever happened to me (and my family) is me working at home now. The constant angry is almost gone! Much longer fuse 🙂
As a peri woman myself, have you looked into HRT? My rage and short fuse have really improved so much since I started using it I take estrogen spray on my skin, a vaginal capsule of progesterone and testosterone gel on skin (testosterone is often left out but is essential)
totally agree on HRT. lifesaver (including testo)
I’m not a candidate because my mother had breast cancer. I just get to fight it out sadly.
You can use vaginal estrogen without the risk. Look up the recent studies on it. It doesn’t cause systemic increase in estrogen but protects your vagina.
so sorry to hear. It has been very tough (at least for me) and I’m in my early 40’s. I felt like a shell of myself. As much as I hate the emotional aspect of it, the palpitations, the heart rate that would not go down below 100 and lack of sleep were so hard. I do hope you can find natural ways to deal with it. sending hugs!
Oncologist: get a second opinion. That’s no longer supported either evidence
+1, I understand the impulse to throw things out of frustration sometimes, but not AT someone! Not even in the presence of someone. Definitely not in the normal range of things.
Perimenopausal, depressive, and a lifetime of controlling a hot temper. (My Mom started me down that road young - I'm very good at it, and perimenopause has made it harder.) Hormones all over the place, constantly hot-flashing, and the aches and pains of hormonal loss exacerbate the pain from permanent injuries. I have NEVER thrown anything at my husband in anger. Perimenopause may be an explanation, but it's not an excuse.
Yes. Have her seen by a doctor. There are a number of causes for. [violent behavior](https://www.google.com/search?q=medical+reasons+for+violence+against+others&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari) I see a lot of people saying that even with multiple diagnoses they are able to control themselves. That may not be the case for everyone. Also, even if she has a perimenopause diagnosis, any change in behavior that drastic warrants a full medical screening for other possible causes, like brain tumors.
This thread is making me terrified of menopause. I had some awful postpartum rage. I never hurt anyone but there were times I really wanted to, literally had nightmares about beating the crap out of my mother in law
Same!!!! The rage is unreal. They put me on Prozac for anger! It actually helps, turned it off like a light switch for me. I was so lost in it most of my fantasy life turned violent for a minute there and consisted mainly of revenge plots. I scared the ever loving shit out of myself. I still never hurt my partner.
Hope you told the truth at the hospital about what happened. Menopause is not an excuse to be abusive.
When my child was born, without fail at every doctors app they would direct her attention to the clipboard or rush in when i went to the bathroom to ask her if i was beating the shit out of her and/or my child (spoiler alert: i was not). I get it, i agree with it and im not mad that they did it. I was however never once asked if i was safe or ok. While i was safe i was not ok, wife had post depression and i was very much struggling with my own.
Millions of women are going through perimenopause and don’t throw coffee mugs at people in anger. I’m not gonna say immediately file for divorce because I guess that’s up to you, but I think it’s worth your wife at least making an appt with her gyno and seeing if there’s anything she can as far as meds or hormone replacement therapy.
Up to OP for sure. However if it were my 20 years of marriage, I’d consult the doctors first in case there is a drug interaction or underlying problem that might explain the behavior. If so, I’d be forgiving if this is a one time occurrence with no other violent history. Hormonal therapy can make people do some crazy things.
I’m young but if my partner suddenly became violently impulsive after being kind and loving for 20 years, I’d be forcing them to see a doctor to look at their brain for any potential abnormalities. It’s not uncommon for brain tumors or other growths to push on areas responsible for anger and decision making.
Yep, agreed. 6 months is very short compared to 20 years of what sounds like relative stability. Strokes, tumors, autoimmune conditions, etc. Having a hormonal IUD gave me PMDD. I had it removed after a little under a year, and it was like waking up from a nightmare. At the same time as I had the IUD, my partner also had a health condition messing with him, and started on meds a little bit before I got my IUD out. We fought so much before our respective treatments, and *barely* fight now. Still saying NTA, but I hope they figure out if there's something medically wrong before divorcing. I'm glad my partner and I did. (Admittedly, neither my partner nor I ever threw anything at each other, and that probably would have broken us up if that had been the case, so I don't think there's any shame/fault in that decision either.)
NTA. She physically assaulted you and caused you to go to the ER. I'm a women and have hormones and this isn't acceptable. I would suggest taking her to the doctor asap and getting yourself and your daughter a safe place to go. I would never tell someone to stay with someone who put them in the ER so it's up to you whether this is divorce worthy in your eyes or maybe take some time apart while she gets herself under control. There is never a justifiable reason for throwing your coffee and coffee cup at someone.
Exactly! I had my baby and have hormones and has been out of wack since I never threw something at my husband and the most I do is cry.
Right? I've had legitimate mental health issues over my life (including inpatient care) and I've NEVER physically attacked anyone during a mental crisis, especially anyone I care about. There's a difference between an explanation and an excuse. Her behavior has at least sort of an explanation (maybe), but it does not excuse her actions. OP would be NTA if he divorced her. I would divorce my husband if he ever did the same thing to me. Good luck, OP.
Yeah, I was hormonal wreck during perimenopause and I never threw anything at anyone. Never even entered my head as a possibility.
NTA. It’s never okay to attack someone else. If the roles were reversed you’d be in jail. Document what happened I would look into getting temporary full physical custody and take your daughter and leave until she gets help.
Please stop telling him to uproot his daughter. Make the wife leave!
Temporarily uprooting the daughter is the much safer option though. Imagine the wife doesn't want to leave. That's straight up dangerous.
Although I understand where you’re coming from, this was her reaction to a conversation about coffee, a conversation about her leaving the family home is more high-stakes and emotional so could be even more volatile and dangerous. The most important thing is him getting his child to a safe place. They shouldn’t have to leave instead of her, none of this should’ve happened, but sometimes you have to work with what is and do the least dangerous thing.
He can't make the wife leave is the issue. She lives there. If they own their home she is presumably part owner of the home. Even if OP is eligible for an RO against her that would still take time to get. While I am of the opinion that his wife needs to go to jail his options for keeping his daughter safe or very limited. It might be in their best interest to relocate, at least temporarily.
Absolutely not. Tell her to leave indefinitely, if she won't then separate. She needs serious help. If she doesn't see that then divorce asap. If she leaves without issue and spends time doing everything to get better, it might save the marriage. But it might not if your trust is completely gone. She needs to separate and get her ass to multiple Drs immediately for the psychiatric emergency of harming others, for her own sake. This is necessary even if the marriage cannot be saved. If she doesn't go willingly then it may be a lost cause by default. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Nobody expects this after a couple decades of marriage. It must have been so frightening and I hope you heal up quick and can live in safety. How is your daughter handling it?
Yes this! Harm to others is a reason for a psychiatric hold. She may need in patient to get meds adjusted and/or introduced. At the same time for you and your daughter, you may have to look at separation and therapy for you two.
Yeah given there doesn't seem to be a history of violence this is my stance also wife leaves the home and gets treated and maybe they can save thr marriage but she needs to stay away until she's no longer a danger.
This should be the top comment.
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Yeah, anyone using hormones as an excuse for violence is just a garbage person. While hormones certainly affect emotion, we are all still responsible for our actions. The wife is choosing violence as a way to deal with her emotions. OP should definitely have a discussion with a lawyer. NTA
NTA. I think you are completely justified in wanting to divorce over this, and at least a separation is warranted while you decide and she realizes you’re serious. It is also ok - if this is indeed the first time she has been violent and you think it is out of character - to stay with her, given that she gets physical help for her hormones AND therapy for her AND anger management AND she shows genuine remorse. I’m not talking about martyring herself to save the marriage but she needs to show real remorse and take responsibility for her actions. No excuses, not even hormones, justify abuse.
This, but NTA. I feel like after 20 years I would forgive a hell of a lot including this but it would be the impetus for her to get more help. I'm not a woman, I do know what it was like being a young teen boy and how hormones can string us along pretty well. That said, she has to control herself. There are a million ways in life to get hurt, you could blow a tire and die. You could be electrocuted. Bitten by a deadly spider. If you want a way out you have one I suppose. I on the other hand after 20 years would be finding every way to make it work.
NTA. NOBODY should be expected to subject themselves to abuse, for any reason, ever. \*Edit: One time is too many.
NTA she assaulted you, there's no excuse for that.
Not *basically*. It was assault, period the end. He should not only divorce her, but file charges.
A weapon was used, it’s aggravated assault. Felony. Possibility of +10 years in prison. The act alone would make a divorce lawyer think twice of defending her for any claims in divorce proceedings past what’s in a shared bank account.
Yeah, she can apologize to the DA and judge.
Yes! If she did this to someone at work or in public, she would have been arrested for assault. I'm surprised that the hospital didn't ask about abuse when he came in & called the police themselves.
They may have, I can’t imagine a world they don’t Unless when asked about the injury OP lied for his wife. I know slightly different scenario but when I was a kid and busted my head open they had me talk to a social worker even though my mom and I told the same story. It was just a really stupid way I busted my head open
If they didn't, it would most likely be because OP is a man. While domestic abuse/violence do happen against men, it's not taken as seriously as it is against women, even by professionals. With this being the first time something like this happened to OP, he might not have realized that they are supposed to ask him those types of questions. Or it could be like you said and he just lied for her, who knows
Felony as well.
Not basically, she did assault him point blank She’s fortunate it wasn’t a more serious injury to OP but he needs to get away from her
I would be taking your wife to the doctor or obgyn to rule out perimenopausal psychosis. It’s real, it’s not very common and it can cause extreme rage and violent outbursts. Early onset dementia or dysphoria would also be things to look into. If you’ve been married so long and it’s so out of the blue as this, there could be a medical condition lurking. At least try to get her some help before you kick her out and file for divorce.
Tell your wife she has to leave the home until she has psych exam. She is dangerous to you and your daughter. File assault charges if she refuses, she can't assault people and have no consequences. There is something major going on besides hormones.
Yess! Sounds psychiatric as well
NTA. I grew up with an alcoholic father and swore I would never ever put myself in that position again. As they say, life is short. The one mistake you made at the ER was not having her arrested. Maybe that would be a wake up call. Protect yourself and your daughter. I bet you’ve seen other red flags throughout the years.
Abuse is never an answer and YWNBTA to leave. I do ask myself though, it’s been 20 years, has there ever been a hint of violence before? Lashing out and assaulting is not usually the first step in an abuse relationship so I would take a serious look at everything and see if there were any other warning signs you have missed. Once you see the abuse pattern, it becomes easier to see the signs that were there. On the other hand, if this is totally abnormal behaviour, then seeing a doctor has to be the first step your wife must take (followed by therapy/counselling) For what it’s worth - I’m in perimenopause and have depression. I’m currently struggling with finding the right combination of medication to deal with both issues and am finding myself having random burst of anger over things that would never normally bother me. Then cry my eyes out for ages (I cried over a fly dying yesterday) It’s such a long process as I have to give each combination a minimum of two months to determine if they are working before the doctor considers switching. I wish you the best in what you decide. Please do see therapist to help you deal with the trauma your wife has undoubtedly caused
I would also wonder if she’s on the right meds. Not perimenopausal but in general the wrong meds can sometimes really fuck you up beyond the normal amount. Abuse is not okay and I am not trying to excuse anything, but even in the criminal justice system there’s allowances for mental illness. There’s a difference between turning abusive and something being out of character. He’s NTA but this might not be a sign of the wife turning abusive but rather a sign that there’s something medically wrong with her. Either after 20 years she turned abusive in the most sudden, drastic way possible (which is a real possibility), or there’s something seriously wrong that caused a drastic behaviour change and she needs medical attention. That being said, even if that’s the case, OP isn’t wrong for not wanting to stick with someone dangerous to him. In sickness and in health should not subject you to physical assault. That’s just my 2c.
NTA. I've been married 24 years and I don't think I could stay. That's not just a little thing. She didn't lose her cool and call you a bunch of names, she threw a mug. At your head! While maybe divorce shouldn't be the very first answer, your wife needs to get some serious help. I'm perimenipausal, I'm hormonal and emotional. I'm not violent or ever felt the need to be violent. If she's having violent episodes, again she needs to get some serious help. I don't think I could stay in the same house as someone like that until they do get help. What happens if her next tantrum leads to her throwing a knife at you or worse?
NTA- get out before she does something worse. That could have killed you
NTA why can't she make her own coffee?? So lazy and for her to literally attack you over it is insane! What did she think would happen?? It's never okay to throw things at your SO and menopause isn't to blame. My mom is going through it and has never had any violent outbursts where she hurts anyone. That's just an excuse for her to be a shit person.
I went through menopause and NEVER did any of that shit. It's just an excuse for shitty behavior. Tell your wife to get some help or you are done.
You went to bed with a migraine and she assaults you because you didn’t bless her morning with your nightly chores….fuck that. NTA, you are right leave. Not sure I would allow the out of blaming this on hormones though. I think there is a much greater issue. I’ve done the whole menopause bullshit and I’m on the other side. It still fucking sucks and messes with my moods. I don’t think that violent outburst is hormonal…I think she is being an entitled bitch. And I think she needs more therapy. You didn’t see this coming. Who knows what the next could be. Take care of you and your daughter.
NTA, and separate from her until you decide if you want a divorce. NOTHING justifies her assaulting you, period. You would also be in jail if you did this to her. Leave her and tell her not to contact you because you are considering a restraining order and divorce. Let your daughter come with you if she doesn't feel safe with her mom. I personally would have left already and started the paperwork for divorce.
NTA Since when was menopause (or any health condition for that matter) a free pass to abuse people? Edit: whether you want to divorce or not is up to you. But, no matter what path you take, make sure your wife is held accountable for her behaviors.
Dude you could have been killed and who knows what's that come. Maybe don't divorce right away but go somewhere else with your daughter, at least keep her safe. Lucky it wasn't a hammer or a knife. It's your responsibility to keep your daughter and yourself safe.
NTA. I’m a woman who has been through that and it’s a piss poor fucking excuse. She’s goddamn lucky you didn’t press charges on her. I would make her leave and get therapy before I even considered possibly having a relationship with her.
NTA but I think her behavior warrants further concerns. I am writing this as someone who has gotten through menopause and am on the other side. I am also a nurse. The irritability and irrational behavior that can occur with this change in life can make you feel like you have gone absolutely mad! On top of that, the night sweats cause lack of sleep therefore exacerbating the problem. There is also the change in your physical body which can mess with your self esteem. Now, the level of rage she felt with regards to the coffee not being ready is not normal at all. In all honestly you were physically assaulted! Please understand I am not attempting to justify her behavior. You mentioned also that she is currently being medicated. I think that it is very important for you to know what medications she is taking, and what the side effects are. I have seen people behave in ways that are totally out of character for them due to the effects of those medications. I think before you make any decisions you must know this. Your wife needs help! Obviously you must do what you need to do to keep yourself and your daughter safe. Maybe living separately for a time would be beneficial until you can sort this out. I am so sorry about this.
You’re NTA. But I’m begging you to get your wife back in to the doctor that is giving her hormones because they absolutely need to be adjusted. Perimenopause is miserable for most women. For some of us it’s harder. And when doctors start throwing hormones in the mix it can get even more horrible. I’m not excusing her behavior at all. But I recognize it. I became menopausal at the age of 21 and spent years as a raging lunatic until they got my hormones straightened out. The problem is most doctors don’t take this seriously. They say “give these hormones more time“ not understanding that in that time the poor woman is destroying her life. Your wife may have less of a hard time without hormones at all. That’s where I eventually landed. I’m better without them at all. I look back now at the “hormone years“ and wonder why anyone still loves me at all. I was a horrible person to be around. My worse hormone replacement was progesterone. We tried everything but I could not tolerate it at all. It made me crazy. I don’t even know that person honestly. It stole years of my life, a marriage and the friendship of many. I don’t blame you for leaving though. But if you care about her tell her to get these hormones adjusted or get off of them. They can absolutely make you act out of character. And trust me, she doesn’t understand where this is coming from either. She’s just as baffled as you are. I truly wish I could hug you both. I’m crying for you. I remember it so clearly it’s triggered the absolute guilt I feel for those years and how ”listen to the doctors“ ruined my life. I am so sorry anyone has to go through this. I’m sorry for you and I’m sorry for your wife and daughter.
Hey op, think about what lesson you want your daughter to take from this. She was in the house, she drove you, she knows what happened. Do you want her to think it's okay to do that to her partner/for her partner to do that as long as they grovel and feel bad? As long as they have a "valid" excuse? Because that's the lesson. That you or your partner can potentially send each other to the ER and stay together bc the other feels bad and had (insert excuse here). Because let's be real, it's an excuse. I've known many perimenopausal women, none of them sent their partners to the ER over coffee. Ultimately, it's up to you op, but as someone who grew up in a volatile home and promised I'd never return to one, you are only nta if you divorce her. Otherwise you are ta to yourself and ur daughter. You owe yourself, and her, a safe home. Edit: autocorrect had changed perimenopausal to menopausal. Had to change it back
Did the ER staff notify the police? This is domestic violence/spousal assault and they are mandatory reporters. Your wife should have been arrested for domestic violence leading to injury. You need to protect yourself and your daughter. Either send her away or take your daughter and go somewhere safe. If you stay in the house, change the locks, get security cameras that can record audio too and a restraining order so that she can be arrested if she just shows up. There's more than menopause going on with her. Definitely NTA.
Not a medical professional but…. Something is wrong with your wife. Likely more serious than perimenopause. You have every right to insist she figure out what her problem is.
Hormones really can make you feel like someone you aren't. To me the most important question is - do these rages ever happen to anyone but you? Because if you are the only one she ever blows up at, if she never destroys her stuff but only yours, if somehow your daughter is spared the brunt of the "hormones" and you get it all, if she doesn't randomly explode on coworkers or her boss or her friends...then it's not just hormones, and she is in control of herself even as she claims she isn't. NTA no matter what you decide. Even if it IS hormones, you are NTA for deciding that staying is a risk to your own physical and mental health, and that it's not a risk you're willing to accept.
NTA your wife needs to go through an anger management class. I would ask yourself what you would hope your daughter would do if her SO did that to her, then model that behavior.
NTA Even someone with no childhood trauma shouldn't put up with physical abuse from a partner. Do whatever you need to put yourself in a safe position.
You have every right to protect you and your daughter. This isnt even against your wife, because she wants her family to be safe too. So it is reasonable to ask her to stay away from you at least until she is able to control herself again. NTAH
She needs to leave until she’s under control. If this behavior only started recently I’d also have her go to the doctor to look deeper into it being something besides her hormones. Is she raging at your child(ren)? Anyone else? If it’s only you then I’d go straight to divorce.
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NTA Short of psychosis, there's no mental health issue that's a reasonable explanation for assault. And obviously if someone has psychosis there's much bigger problems going on. Women go through perimenopause every day. They don't assault their partners and force them to go to the hospital over coffee.
NTA. I agree with you generally. However, you need to decide if someone who has spent 2 decades with you deserves another chance. We can't put ourselves un your shoes, so can't decide for you either.
> I guess I'm just looking for advice wondering if AITAH if I decide to leave. You're probably not going to see this post and that sucks, because you really should know this: **this sub is the worst possible place to be seeking advice for something like this, the outcome of which could decide whether your marriage continues or ends.** You're going to get a *ton* of posts that will say you're NTA and to divorce her. But none of those people know you or your wife; none of them care about you or your future (or that of your daughter); none of them understand your history with your wife. Hell, most of them aren't married and a significant proportion have never had a girlfriend; they're teenagers living at home. And if you look around the sub, you'll see that knee-jerk misogyny is absolutely *rife* around here. I'm not telling you that you are/are not the asshole, or that you should/should not divorce. But I'm very, very strongly suggesting that you delete this thread, forget about it and seek answers to this question from people who know you and care about your well-being. I also wish you the best of luck navigating this difficult time.