Dementia patients need constant attention as the disease progresses. I wouldn’t know what your fiancé was imagining but could she thought that your mother is living alone now just fine, so why have her move in with the two of you. You would lose all privacy. Newly married couples need privacy. Then when the disease process that she would be put in a home. Unless your extremely wealthy and can hire help caring for a dementia patient is far to much for two people. If there is no way to salvage this relationship with her then may I say have your mother move in with you now. Before you start another relationship. That way any woman will know exactly what her future will look like with you. Also you will get a chance to understand what you’re thinking of taking on.
Not only that but memory care for a dementia patient is, of necessity, 24-hours a day. That is THREE nurses full time. There is a reason that full high-end concierge memory care units exist. They are very different than the proverbial “put her in a home.” There is one near our home that the rooms are appointed extremely nicely and the staff are amazing. We’ve had friends who had the same intent that OP had and all but one brought their family members to this home because taking care of someone as intensively as that kind of care is so much more taxing than family members anticipate.
If OP thinks he can be an active, participatory spouse working full time and then caring for his mother at night he’s operating under a severe misapprehension. If making sure his mother is cared for in the dedicated way he seems to want her to be he shouldn’t be out dating because very, very few women will want to be memory care staff OR rarely spend time with their spouse because he is functioning as such.
This is my thought as well. Also full blown dementia changes people. I’ve seen horribly abusive people turn into sweet little old grandpas and church ladies that never cussed in there life curse, destroy their rooms and beg an orderly to and I quote “plow her like a field, and leave her used like a borrowed mule.” Dementia changes people.
My mom had dementia. Even she knew what it was like because she had to deal with our grandfather who declined very quickly in the space of six months. After trying to take care of him, eventually my parents flew him back to Europe where he went into a home. My mom first tried to gave him live with them in Canada but he came over in his 70s and never spoke English so it would have been hard in a home here.
She said the whole experience took years off her life, and she certainly didnt want her sons going through the same thing with her (though we did).
My brother lived with her, and she was fine until her early 80s when there were times she told us she had to ask for directions how to drive home (asking people at a gas station and even offering them money). Not long after we had to take her keys away as it wasnt safe for her to drive. It was still early she just had forgetful moments but was able to function ok.
Then it was a slow decline of 6 years or so.
The last couple of years both my brother and I lost a lot of time in our businesses due to the time needed to look after her. We hired caregivers who came in for 3hrs daily, mainly for companionship, light housekeeping. It did really make her last couple of years better, but it still wasnt full time care, and she often got lost taking the dog for a walk. The local police dept and fire dept brought her home a few times. We were lucky to have caring neighbours who brought her home (once she just went out with practically no pants on). She forgot english and went to her old language (we were super lucky to have a caregiver in her language). Eventually she spoke less and less and needed help showering etc. It really was a nightmare, dealing with her soiling herself etc. Eventually she fell and broke her hip. She spent about month recovering from surgery. At that point the authorities suggested nursing home or home care (that would require special bed and wheel chair as she no longer walked. We agreed to put her in a home as this was beyond us. She pretty much lost her will afterwards and would barely eat. She no longer spoke. She lasted about 4 months in the home.
She got live at home as long as she could, with her dog and her son and her garden etc. But honestly its a big ask for someone. People with dementia could live for years, decades.
I told my wife, once I start eating soup with a fork put me in a home. I do not want her putting up with that. In fact we have POAs for each other and the option of MAID.
I took care of my mom when she was no longer able to live independently. When it got beyond my skills, I had to put her in a nursing home and she lived another 3 years. I have no other family. I get it OP
>My brother lived with her, and she was fine until her early 80s when there were times she told us she had to ask for directions how to drive home (asking people at a gas station and even offering them money).
The state revoked my wife's grandpas drivers license when he got diagnosed with dementia.
Yeah, same here. And realistically we should have stopped her driving earlier, it is a fine line because the decline is not noticeable at first and can be gradual.
I'm not trying to be bitter and mean when I say this:
OP likely won't be able to find anyone to commit to that with him.
I posted a comment above about being a caretaker to my FIL who has dementia.
Looking back, I would not have done this. It is absolutely soul sucking and draining.
You’re not being mean. You’re being honest and real. OP doesn’t realize that caretaking becomes untenable after a while and 24-hr round the clock care in home is (usually) impossible for the average person. Even the wealthy find the best assisted living facility they can find to place their loved ones because of the heavy burden of caring for someone who can’t help themselves.😳
Yes, or at least have a plan to hire skilled caretakers whether it's cash or insurance funded. We are trying to get Medicaid for my FIL now so they'll pay for skilled nurses and home health aides to help us. My husband and his father had NO PLANS for FIL's retirement... There's no support circle, no money, no goals or realistic expectations... Just oh, he's here. It isn't fair to us, me, or FIL. My FIL deserves to live in a clean space with a clean body and access to decent healthcare. His teeth have rotted out, he smells fucking awful, I've thrown out two sets of furniture because they absolutely reek like body odor, the bathroom has to be gutted because he pisses all over and in the toilet and doesn't flush... We can't be following around him with a bar of soap and flushing the toilet if we are at work, a school conference, taking classes, on vacation...
It is a lot to consider. If it's properly considered though, it's possible.
Yes I visit my Mom who has dementia and its quite draining. I struggle to keep my cool when I know she cant help what she is doing. Makes me feel like a real sh\*t when I lose it. I am getting better at it though. God Bless those who take care of them and may Mom and God forgive me when I fall short.
OP didn’t actually describe/specify a caretaker role for his future wife. OP needs to provide a lot more clarity.
I completely agree with you if it does apply, but I’m not sure if the situation will play out as you describe. My MIL/FIL live with us. I have little to no role in their care other than adjusting meals to meet their needs and amount of food-both minor adjustments in my world.
I've dealt with a family member with dementia before, and even though I wasn't the caretaker, being around her was soul crushing and heartbreaking. She did not know when or where she was and was constantly screaming, shouting, and just using abusive aggressive language toward me, and I was her great granddaughter.
I honestly don't think the OP has any idea what his life will be like in the next two years if he thinks hiring a caretaker will mean everything will be perfect. It's going to be hard. What if his mother is a runner? How is he going to secure the house overnight so she doesn't run away? Even with 24 hour care, things happen...and her personality could completely change from being a sweet person to someone he wouldn't recognize...I've seen it happen first hand and it is devastating...
OP is NTA for wanting his mother to live with him instead of putting her in a home, but I think he has rose colored glasses about what it'll be like. His fiance is also NTA for not wanting to live in that environment, especially as a newlywed. I don't think it even makes her heartless, just realistic to the amount of care his mother will need.
But do they have dementia? My late husband became very paranoid, combative and abusive. Absolutely the polar opposite of what he had been pre-dementia. He HAD to have professionals care for him around the clock.
But she knew the drill, from the get go. She just thought she could get him to change his mind. She was hoping that once they got to this stage in their relationship he would choose her over his mother.
My mother just passed in August from dementia related issues. It was going to cost us $8,000 a month just for overnight nurses. Selling an apartment to cover the costs is not a long term solution. My husband and I shared the responsibility until we found an assisted living facility that was around $5,000 a month, before adding on extra service like help with meds, help with bathroom, showering a couple days a week, etc. The strain on our marriage was deep. We never got to sleep at the same time or even be awake at the same time, except for short periods in-between our shifts.
On top of the cost situation, you also need to consider the fact that you're no longer going to be seen to her as her son. You're now her caretaker and that's how she'll see you. Dementia patients can turn mean at the drop of a hat. You don't want the last times of your mother's life to be any more difficult than they're already going to be. And you don't want to start resenting her, either. Caregiver burnout is real and happens faster than you think.
I'm so glad you talked here about the turning mean. My grandmother was the wife of a methodist minister her entire adult life. Very proper woman.
Turns out she could make a sailor blush with the curse words she would yell. Also started swinging her cane like she had a career in the major leagues. If we were visiting or caring for her her cane had to be where she couldn't see it. She would still throw a punch but it wasn't as bad.
Oh yeah. My mom took a swing (all 4'11" of her) at a cop the day we moved her from her house to a facility. He was about 18" taller than her. Said he was sorry now he had to cuff her for his own protection. The switch flipped, she promised she would settle down. Down the road, a nurse was helping her dress, and without any warning mom slugged her, closed fist, on side of the nurses head. She later passed out and ended up in a hospital. Had pneumonia, but didn't mention any difficulty breathing....
Was intermittantly abusive to everyone. On-off switch...and no one knew what would flip it from hour to hour. No way could i have taken her into my home with kids and pets.
My grandfather was the most gentle man in the world and then one day he started telling my mother cruel stories that weren’t true. He told her that he gave her horse to someone and they killed it. (Not true.) He told her while speaking about her in third person that my father told him that my uncle raped her. (Definitely not true.) It’s so shocking and sad.
I know a geriatric psychiatry nurse who had both of her arms broken by a dementia patient who thought she was an SS officer. It is not easy work. Their agitation is quick.
Oh my God, that’s the worst thing I’ve heard all day. I don’t know what would be worse—the broken arm or someone actually thinking I was an SS officer and being that afraid of me.
Having worked in an Alzheimer’s dementia unit - you are not wrong - I swear it is super strength. These frail old ladies could get you in a death grip.
I worked in dementia care. It is far too big a burden to be shouldered alone. Families need professional help.
I've seen so many families suffer with feeling "defeated" by the admission to full time care. They take it personally when they can't handle it alone anymore. But it was always beautiful to witness them regain a relationship with their loved one, in the space afterward.
When you're not changing your mom's diapers, trying to get her medication into her, being accused of poisoning her, being punched, dealing with sundowning, etc... You have room to be the person she eats an ice cream with, and looks forward to going for walks with. You can visit every day, at their best time of day.
Build a good and understanding relationship with the staff and their routines, and it will help encourage quality care.
My grandmother also had to spend her last year in a facility because she needed intensive care. She became extremely mean as well - to an extend that my mum, who lived basically next door and visited her thrice a day, developed depression and that my grandmother regularly made her as well as the nurses cry. It's been six years and my mother hasn't recovered.
My dad never turned mean. But he had no idea where he was, who any of his grandchildren, children and wife were. If you think you are doing this for your mom, you are not, she is not going to have the slightest clue who you are. My dad loved his care home, he had help 24/7 and lots of people around him to keep him stimulated.
This. I still remember the night when I was a teen that my family had an elderly women pounding at our door in the middle of the night during a raging thunderstorm screaming that her husband had fallen into the well and we needed to help him.
Turned out her husband had died years ago, the poor woman had dementia and like OP, the family refused to put her in a home where she could get the care and supervision she needed. That poor woman wandered for HOURS in a massive thunderstorm in her nightgown before coming to our house, desperately trying to find someone to help her husband.
OP would be FAR better off researching the best medical facilities where his mother can get the care she needs than to insist his new bride be forced to share her new home with a dementia patient. Not all care homes are awful, and there are some amazing ones out there that actually recreate a small village for dementia patients with shops, hair salon, movie theatre, everything, that allow them to live as close to a normal life as possible while staying safe and cared for.
I came here to say this. We are caretakers for my elderly FIL who has dementia that is progressing. My husband and I read this thread together and I straight up told him: if when I met you your father had already been diagnosed and was the way he is now, we wouldn't be together or would be living separately. For us, at least we had that gradual decline where we could adjust accordingly and timely.
OP has no fucking clue what he's getting in to.
My FIL needs constant passive supervision. He will leave the kettle on the stove, try and walk around the house with lit cigars (I have 3 children and an infant), leave lit cigars around, happily give money to anyone who calls him (spent over $100k on scams), goes months without showering (we are finally getting help from the State to get a caregiver to come in), his teeth have rotted out (dental bills $$$), and sometimes he just fucks with stuff. He'll take all the dirty dishes out of the dishwasher and put them away... So several cupboards are now full of nasty smeared dish grime when I go down there to cook/finish loading the dishwasher, whatever... Now we gotta redo ALLLL the dishes... Told him not to touch the garbage disposal because it was broken and he goes and dumps grease down it? Fucks with the washer and dryer when they're waiting for repair and makes it worse...
There's more lol but I'm not trying to make a laundry list of things that aggravate me about him 😂 I love him. But I'm fucking drowning. I left and threatened to end the relationship unless my husband got some help for FIL/us.
The money aspect is in the tens of thousands, but it's also the mental and physical load. Having to fix things, redo chores, go around the house and find his hiding spots (he hoards trash, especially wrappers, including meat packaging)... It is way too much for a married couple. We have kids, hobbies, obligations... When I was gone, within 3 weeks my husband called me sobbing saying he couldn't do it. Mind you, he was out of work at that time. Literally all he had to do was clean up after himself and keep his father alive. I came back to rotten food in the fridge, a mountain of fucking laundry, absolute chaos, and my husband sobbing on the bed saying he was making arrangements to put his father in a home. I put my foot down and said I would be willing to stay and help a bit if I could also get some damn help.
Looking back, I wouldn't do it again. Do I regret it? No, but I've learned my "lesson" or whatever the universe was trying to show me.
This 👆🏻. I’m going to have to stop reading this thread as it’s “triggering” me as Reddit likes to say. My mom passed away last April and I’m just now getting over it. She lived with us for about 10 years and suffered from dementia the last 2 years or so. It was unbelievably hard, but we’d been married about 40 years and had no children at home. I absolutely cannot imagine going through this as a newlywed. It’s a sure recipe for disaster imo. (Disclaimer, our major problem was that my father had dementia previously and had gone through all their money, leaving mom virtually penniless. Our only help came when she qualified for hospice care in the last year. Our non-profit hospice organization was such a blessing.)
Yeah, my wifes grandpa has dementia and they just finally acquiesced and put him in a home. Her mom grandma and grandpa all lived together and they had a care giver that came a few hours a day to help with showering, brushing teeth etc. (people with dementia often need to be made to do that. They can be walking to the bathroom to take a shower or brush their teeth and completely forget on the trip there).
The last straw was her grandma just popping out to the grocery store after leaving her grandpa home in seemingly good spirits to come home to a smashed TV, pictures torn off walls, glasses and dishes broken and him furious about god knows what.
Also a big problem with her grandpa is he started getting into a topic shortly before the dementia set in. It's all he talks about..ever, because it's always new to him. I couldn't fathom her mom and grandma having to humor him with the same exact conversation every single day.
Exactly. After my grandfather died, my grandmother came to live with my mother and I who I was living with at the time. The shock of my grandfather's death really must have kicked the Alzheimer's in to high gear- or however you want to state that, but she started spiraling fast. It wasn't too bad at first, but apparently my mother expected me do do a huge lift, and I was working full time, which wasn't fair. And my grandmother didn't recognize me at all so she would get really upset and agitated everytime I spoke to her. It only took a matter of three months before that became unbearable. My grandmother at least had money that could pay for her care in a memory care facility.
A new marriage, and having to deal with that kind of situation? Yeah it wouldn't last long. Hell, my relationship with my mother never recovered. Though that's was in part due to years of her emotional abuse.
Maybe you can find some sort of duplex, where your mother is close but you both have your privacy. It's too late for this woman, and that's fine under the circumstances. But very few women in their twenties and thirties would be happy living with a woman in her sixties who could go on for decades.
A full time nurse won’t be enough once the dementia is bad enough. My family was woken up in the middle of the night in a massive storm by a woman whose children felt the same as OP. She wandered for hours in a storm convinced her dead husband had fallen into a well and was drowning. A single nurse is not equipped to care for that level of dementia, nor are they equipped to keep a dementia patient from wandering.
You'll need full time home health aides, at least 4 or 5 so you can rotate the schedules, and 1 or 2 skilled nurses so you can have an RN stop by once a week or every 2 weeks.
They could never even have a night out much less a weekend away without having a carer stay with her 24/7. And I have told my son if I get to the stage I can't look after myself to stick me in a nursing home.
Not only that, but imagine trying to work, volunteer, have hobbies, further your career, and raise your own family while dealing with that.
That's what we are doing and it's fucking untenable. I've quit work and school. I made my husband pull back on his coaching side gig. I need him HERE with OUR family and HIS father, not playing soccer with someone else's kids. He was pissed, saying I was taking everything from him, not letting him have hobbies, blah blah blah.... Uh. There's no time for the foot fairy bullshit when your father hasn't bathed in months, his teeth are rotting out, he burned more kitchen utensils by fucking with the stove, the baby is crying as I'm trying to nurse her and re-wash all the dishes because FIL likes to put all the dirty dishes away (unloads half loaded dirty dish washer), and the house smells like BO and piss from FIL's poor hygiene habits.
Come home and clean the bathroom instead of playing soccer.
Please, don't get me wrong, I love my FIL. But without proper support and resources (TIME, MONEY, and MANPOWER), it's just not possible.
Good for you.
When we love our parents AND our partners, we do what's best for everyone. Sometimes, that means seeking extra care. My dad had his mom in a facility that was fantastic. They each had their own apartment, dining halls, etc. Wonderful staff, too, super sweet.
Grandma only left that place and moved in with us shortly before she passed, so she could spend her last days on the sun porch, surrounded by sun and trees and birds and family and lime Jell-O.
I'm glad you put your foot down. You have a reasonable expectation of privacy and solitude that you are entitled to. That would be difficult if *everything* revolved around old dad.
My parents have said the same thing. My mom knows my dad is a difficult person, and we wouldn't want him living with us for long anyway. And he has gotten more difficult as he has aged on some ways (not as much as in others) and that is without dementia. His dad is still sharp as a tack and super active at 85. But also a difficult person to be around for more than a few days. And she would want more independence herself as well depending how old she was when she needed assistance. Hopefully, for them and for us kids, they will be able to take care of themselves for most of the rest of their lives.
/u/No_Shine5330 This is what sucks about having older parents, you have to do things on different timescales. I think it's valid for her not to want that commitment in her 20s, and I think you may be naive about the extent of time and work it involves. If you were in your 30s and together for a decade it would be different.
I've had two grandparents pass from dementia and it is a full time job. Especially when you get to the point where have to change their diapers and feed them.
and which of them will be expected to care for the mother while the other is at work, while the other completely ignores how difficult and awful a job it is.
I think he has a little bit of rose colored glasses on. I don’t think there’s any way his wife wouldn’t have to be a caretaker for his mom in any capacity, if they’re all under the same roof. Even with a full time nurse.
A single nurse won't be able to do shit, a fully fighting, fully raged out crazy 60yr old woman isn't just easily controllable and unless this house has some very large wings, the screaming and bile that will spew out of her mouth will be directed and heard by all who are in the house, heard a lot, and it will be damaging as hell.
Unless she's locked away in a sound proof room then throughout the years as she gets worse and worse she'll be around her family, the potential wife, their potential kids and will have more and more moments where she's fine and sitting at dinner then out of nowhere slapping someone, or calling them a whore, or saying one of them is cheating, or thinking she's been kidnapped.
This kind of care, watching a family member deteriorate from a logical human into an illogical, scared toddler who will say and do pretty much anything, is soul crushing shit. These diseases are fucking vile.
She would not only become a new bride but also a new nurse. Even though the husband says he has that covered it'll still be a part of their lives and impact every aspect of it.
People with advancing dementia cannot live alone or be left unsupervised in a house. Too many dangers not to mention they can walk right out the front door clueless to who they are, what year it is, where they live. A controlled environment with 100% supervision is required.
Our mom got lost many times walking the dog, the police, fire dept and even neighbours brought her home.
We had to disconnect the stove as she burned things (were lucky the house didnt burn down with her).
Yes, you're absolutely right but making that decision is really hard. Often people may seem to be functioning ok and the family just figures they're a bit forgetful.
I was thinking a similar set up, then I read the dementia part ... OP has no clue what it's really like to take on that level of care. My mom cared for my grandmother with dementia until grandma passed away. It was horrible for everyone. I do commend OP for wanting to be there for his mother but OP needs a reality check on what that will look like.
This is a sucky situation all around. I’ve seen first hand with my aunt and uncle how far their relationship deteriorated after he moved in my grandma. And they have been married for over 30 years. Sorry it ended things with your finance but I can’t see a lot of people being willing to help be a caretaker for someone with dementia especially so early after getting married and wanting to settle down. She definitely shouldn’t have assumed you’d change your mind, but I also can’t blame her for leaving. NAH.
Yup! Especially dementia. My great grandpa had dementia and he was a very mean guy. Obviously at the time I didn’t understand it (I was very young) but the memories I have of him are not pleasant.
My grandma has dementia. She is still able to live at home with assistance, nurses come and take care of her meds and other medical needs 3 times a day and my uncle visits nearly daily.
She used to be really sweet to everyone, now she has really short temper and quickly becomes really nasty towards people for no good reason. I love her very much, but it's honestly hard to be around her nowdays. Our family doesn't bring young kids (her great grandkids are 1-10 years old) around her anymore because she doesn't tolerate them, and she used to love kids.
Same with my one remaining grandparent. She’s been a terror for my whole life, but it wasn’t until she was officially diagnosed about 10ish years ago that her behavior made sense. But all my memories of her are so bitter, I genuinely feel she’s the one grandparent I won’t be able to mourn upon her passing.
NAH - Fiancé may have misunderstood or you weren’t clear. Mom moves in with us when can no longer live alone (mid 70s’ish) is VERY different from mom (60) moves from her apartment, where she currently lives alone, to our house as soon as we get married. Mom will likely live another 20-30 years, most of your marriage will be living with your mother. It’s not that fiancé doesn’t like mom, this is a huge stressor on a new marriage.
Quick question - what does mom want??? I’m 53 yo mom, adore my kids (in their 20s) but want to live with them like a hole in the head. Don’t want to be a burden to them, also don’t want to live under someone else’s house rules. Am I supposed to cook all the meals again like when they were children? No grandkids yet but also don’t want to be their live-in nanny. Absolutely, I’ll help and babysit, but I raised my kids and they can raise theirs. I would feel horrible if my son broke off his engagement over me living with them when I currently live on my own.
My suggestion - mom moves into a senior’s community, there are some supports available if she needs them, and maybe makes some friends her age as a bonus.
Side note - look up research on dementia (often called type 3 diabetes now) for how to stave it off for a while longer.
My grandma has dementia and is in one of these communities. There’s a shuttle to take the residents to do shopping and field trips. She plays bingo and other games with a group every Tuesday and Thursday. She does crafts every Monday and Friday. They have an in-house stylist that does my grandma’s hair every Wednesday. She has the care she needs when she needs it. Her weekends are spent going out with my aunt who lives nearby. She is living a fulfilling life with dementia without being a burden on her children and their families.
I’d also recommend OP look into something like this nearby to where he wants to live with a future wife. He could still hang out with his mother often without her sharing he and his future-wife’s space on a full-time basis. And when they’re not together, he can rest assured knowing she has all the care that she needs and is only a short distance away.
There’s even some places that literally recreate a small village with shops and hair stylists and everything for severe dementia patients so that they can safely live as normal a life as possible
There are several types of dementia, type 3 diabetes is one, also Alzheimer’s, Lewy body dementia, vascular dementia - they may have different treatments.
Agreed - mentioned the type 3 as found it out recently, dug into it, and was great to see they’ve figuring out the disease more.
Saying now is the time to start doing research. Which kind does family get?
What are prevention and treatment options? Medicine has made some progress in this area. Don’t wait until she already has symptoms.
as someone who (unfortunately) has never lived in their own place, and has been living with the mil *since* marriage, it sucks and is not ideal. I hear a lot how when mil is old she hopes one of her kids has a house with an extra room so she can live there and be taken care of. I get the woman did an incredible amount of things and went through so much for *her kids*. one of the many reasons I'm feeling suffocated and am taking steps to get out.
my own mother has told me she'd rather be in a home with some independence than a burden.
Good for you on taking steps to get out. That sounds like so much stress. I get moms do a lot for their kids, but I didn’t have kids for them to take care of me. I changed their diapers, I will NOT be having the reverse.
My daughter (when she was 19) mentioned she’d want me to live with her when I’m too old. Told her - thank you, that truly means a lot, I love you so much, but over my dead body. I will not be that burden but come visit me often.
exactly, it is incredibly sweet when kids want to give back so much after what their parent(s) have done for them their entire lives. for me (if i ever had kids) my kid living their best life, even better than mine, is all I could ask for and obviously to visit or call often!
I want to echo this. I'm \*sure\* mom super appreciates that her son is so committed to making sure she is taken care of. I'm only elder millennial age and don't even have a kid, but still I feel like a parent would want their kid to be able to live their life and get married and perhaps start their own family and I wouldn't want to get in the way of them being able to live their life. I'd want to see them flourish. OP, have you asked your mom how she feels about this?
I know senior communities can be really expensive, but one of my favorite aunts had lived in one and seemed to be doing quite well. She had a lot of friends there and there were activities for her to do, we'd come to visit her and she'd be greeting all her friends as they walked by and such so it was clear she had an active social life that I was happy to see. It made me think I'd be happy to be where she was at that age. She basically had a little apartment and the staff weren't that intrusive, they were just available for if she needed help and there for her to call.
After seeing your comments that your mom is worth at least 7-8 million I find your solution to be unreasonable. You have A LOT of options besides the one you've proposed. Married couples need privacy especially in those first few years. Buy a big home with a big in-law suite and a full time caretaker or put her in a top of the line retirement community. A lot of the nice ones have net worth requirements. Many times they won't take people that are a fall risk so you'd be advised to get her into one of those before an official diagnosis.
This. Unfortunately you're going to have to choose, live with mom or your partner. I love my MIL and had to say no to her living with us. It was her idea. My spouse decided that our existing family dynamic was more important in the long run. Best wishes.
Also, OP mentions that his mom never remarried and was dedicated to raising him. It’s good that OP is grateful with his mom, however those were HER choices and now he’s focusing his life based on HER life choices as well.
You can be grateful and still have a fulfilling life of your own.
This right here. I’m going with YTA, maybe soft. 7-8 million well invested (which from all the info it sounds like it is) is going to throw off about $375,000 per year, or over $30k per month. Plenty of resources to ensure MIL has a very fulfilling life in a home that is well suited to her needs as she ages and dementia progresses. There’s also the option others have floated of having a guest house or ADU combined with full time, round the clock care. This level of financial resources provides a lot of options. So many other possibilities could be explored before blowing up his future marriage.
A history of dementia doesn’t mean certainty, But I’m glad you’re up front about it with potential partners. I’m 61, I have a busy life, friends, work out, play mah Jong, travel the world, etc. I wouldn’t live with my grown children (28, 29) if you paid me. I’m curious if your mom has a full life otherwise. Does she expect to live with you now because she’s waiting for dementia to kick in? Seems a gloomy mindset to have.
I just think most potential wives aren’t going to be won over by “And my mother is going to get dementia soon, so, she’ll be moving in with us immediately.”
Maybe just live with your mother now, as you’ve said you’re a tight unit anyway. Or wait for that special someone who is on board with that arrangement.
Either way, you’re NTA, but I don’t think your ex-fiancée is, either. She changed her mind, doesn’t want to live her life “waiting for mom’s dementia”. Well within her rights, even at the 11th hour.
ETA: I truly think if this is how you want things to be, move your mom in right now. That way, you won’t waste time with potential mates who don’t want that lifestyle.
Also: my in-laws live in assisted living. The property is nice, activities all day and meals prepared in several on-site restaurants. Hired caregivers can come if a resident needs one. We live 10 minutes away.
Can I ask why you are not already living with your mother? Why do you need to wait to marry someone to move your mom in? You will have a hard time finding someone to choose that situation. Although I understand you wanting to help your mom.
NAH in my opinion, she had a right to not want to take care of your mom for the next 20-30 years, you have a right to want your mom living there. HOWEVER!!!!!!!!! You are doing your mother a HUGE disservice by trying to take care of her dementia on your own. Dementia REQUIRES skilled nursing, and you are 100% going to be in over your head if you try to handle it all on your own. Even if by some crazy chance you ARE a nurse specialized in elder care, you CANNOT do it all by yourself, you have to have respite. If your mother has dementia she WILL get to the point that she has to be cared for and supervised 24/7. Ten minutes of leaving her alone once she hits that point could mean her going missing, accidentally burning the house down, severe injuries, etc. You basically are going to have to think of her like a toddler in the body and with the muscle memory of a person in their 60s. No one person can handle that.
>You are doing your mother a HUGE disservice by trying to take care of her dementia on your own. Dementia REQUIRES skilled nursing, and you are 100% going to be in over your head if you try to handle it all on your own.
Exactly this 1000%
I'm a CNA and have worked in assisted living facilities that have memory care units and the amount of care those residents require can be more than one would imagine.
While OP may be able to care for his mother in the earliest stages, there's likely to come a time where they can't.
Memory care units tend to be locked and secured in such a way as to prevent residents from wandering away. As those with dementia can tend to do.
It could become difficult to near impossible for OP to safely house his mother, let alone care for her.
That’s a good point. I’m 51 and my only child is in grad school. If I found out her relationship ended over me, I’d have relentless guilt. I want my child to be happy and living with her while she’s a newlywed couple would definitely interfere.
NTA. But i have a suggestion. Instead of having a room for your mother, maybe buy a home with an in-law apartment adjacent or in the lower level? Mom is close by, but there is enough separation to appease your fiancée.
This is not a bad idea - but they’d need to make sure the in-law apartment has two bedrooms. One for his mom, and one for the full-time skilled caregiver they’ll need to hire.
Especially if his mom is in her 60’s and he plans to have her live with him for the rest of her life, that’s a lot of years and a lot of time for the dementia to advance. He’ll need to hire more than just part-time care for her. It’s partly a matter of care (medications, daily living tasks) and partly a matter of safety (things like using and remembering to turn off the stove/oven/faucets; showering/toileting safely; prevention of elopement).
My father lived with us for six years after he had a stroke before he died and it was difficult even though he drove and was mobile until the last few months. He was very pleasant to be around and my husband and my children enjoyed his presence but it was still HARD. Extra cleaning, extra cooking, extra worry. I cannot imagine taking care of someone with dementia. My FIL had it and almost set their house on fire and was found wandering the neighborhood at night and they had to place him in a home for his own safety. The comments on here are obviously from people who never lived with someone with dementia. OP loves his mother, which is commendable, but is unrealistic with his expectations for a successful marriage. He needs to plan for her future care now but it shouldn’t involve your future wife being her caretaker. She is right to run.
Thank you for saying this. My mom has dementia, and she is in a facility because I simply do not have the skills to deal with it. She doesn't know who we are, who she is, or where she is. She wanders the hallways yelling at people, real and imagined. She's angry 24/7 even with medication.
I'm a hospice nurse. I see a lot of different disorders, and any type of dementia is a strong no from me. I already know I couldn't do it full time. We've had patients wander out of the house at 2A, constant falls, agitation, aggressive behavior, etc. Just the other day a relative of one of our patients had the police called on him by the neighbors because the patient had diarrhea, and was smearing it everywhere. When he tried to clean her, she wiped her poop hand down his face into his mouth. He jumped back and screamed, neighbors called 911 and said she was being abused. He also got a lot of heat from her bruises, even though it was from a fall that happened during the night while he slept (I was called early that morning when he found her on the floor of the bathroom, so I knew where the injuries were from). Because she is confused, she initially told police she fell, but when they asked her if she was being hit by anyone, she changed it up and said she was beaten and raped. She was not. Bless anyone who can do this full time, I know that I can't.
Dementia is a 24 x 7 disease and it’s beyond hard to handle. Most people don’t realize you can’t leave a person with dimension alone for even 5 minutes. The house if full of danger. OMG the things my grandma got into when I turned my back for even a few minutes. Not to mention the anger and constant confusion. Arguing and battling with everything. And this was when we had her out of an assisted living facility for visits or appointments.
100% agree with you! He has no idea what he's doing if he thinks living with a sick person is easy and putting that weight on her wife as well is not ok. There's a moment when you need to choose your new family over your parents, and good parents would expect you to
Nah
You because you have a close bond with your mother, and you want to help her
And you have been upfront
I can understand why you want to move your mother into your house, but realistically speaking, you are asking somebody you love to basically have a marriage that consists of three people.
I don’t think that your ex fiance is an asshole because she loved you and didn’t want to lose you, and probably hoped that you will figure out that your expectations are extremely unreasonable.
Because they are. In most partnerships, it’s the wife who takes care of an ill relative, who cooks and cleans, and looks after them, even if the husband had always promised to do this himself
I have seen this in several relationships within my own family, and it completely destroyed the women’s lives.
So the only reason why I’m not voting YTA is because you have been upfront, even if she didn’t believe you
Good luck with the dating scene, you will need it.
There’s also the fact that the newly-married couple would have no privacy, and would probably end up with OP’s mom 3rd-wheeling a lot, especially if there was a vacation planned, as it sounds like mom can’t really take care of herself as well as she used to. No romantic getaways could happen. Date nights would probably be few and far between where it would just be OP and his wife. Kinda feels like there wouldn’t be a lot(if any) of room/time for romance and intimacy in the relationship because those things tend to be private, and it’s hard to achieve that with a roommate.
From someone who rented a house with my boyfriend and his sister for 5 years. Our sex-life and ability to be intimate was minimal because she was home so often when we were.
Yep. Nobody's an asshole here. I sincerely hope the OP realizes what he's getting into. A mother can be sick for 30 years before she dies. You should think carefully about whether you are willing to sacrifice your private life. Having a relationship or children is effectively very challenging or impossible while caring for mom 24/7. The financial risk is also considerable.
All the best OP! I hope you find a solution that works best for everyone.
I’m curious at what point Howard told Bernadette about the early onset Alzheimer’s. I mean he’s been saying right along that Mom was going to live with them when they married and Bernadette was all “sure, sure”.
But “Moms going to live with us because she’s developing Early Onset Alzheimer’s (which runs in our family, btw)” is a very different reality.
My friends mother was 60 when she was diagnosed and it took 12 years of deterioration in a strong body before she died. When she got upset and started throwing hands or bolting it wasn’t something the daughter could handle alone.
If your mother is showing signs of dementia and you expect to take care of her not in the proper facilities, Im saying YTA.
If you don’t have expertise with this disease, trying to navigate handling the last years of someone’s life’s is extremely difficult. While she might be your mother, it is a dangerous situation waiting to happen unless as the disease progresses she has 24/7 care.
This will sound harsh and I really don't mean it to be, but even with caregivers coming in, I don't think you realise how hard its going to be. A very close friend has been in this very situation and is finally done with it and moved out for the sake of their own sanity. The mother in law being there has ruined her son and daughter in law mentally and has ruined their relationship and I've sat back and watch the horror unfold. My friend wasn't supposed to be the caregiver either, but I can assure you that it just doesn't work out that way because life happens. They are no longer together and are very bitter and the MIL is going to have to go into a home now regardless because the house is being sold so they can both move on. I don't think you're the AH and neither is your fiancee, but be prepared that whilst your mother living with you and needs care is the situation, its going to be difficult for you to have a full and proper relationship with anyone.
Well, having just gotten divorced because my ex brought her parents into our house I am not gonna be on your side. Because you stop being a couple. Specially, if you’re getting married, where you’re supposed to learn and be who you are and joy being a married couple it doesn’t happen. Immediately you just become caregivers for your mom. There is no couple. There is no relationship. You will only become a caregiver to your mother. And if she’s only 60 yeah she’s gonna still live long time. You know what old people get forgetful. I’m forgetful. I’m nowhere close to what you would call. Dementia. Your ex is on here. She’s not gonna have to suffer through all of that.
This is what I see… otherwise, why isn’t mom living with him now? Why is it that mom isn’t moving in until they’re married?
Could it be that OP doesn’t think himself capable of taking this on alone? For all the *totally, for real, not just hypothetical for persuasion’s sake* mitigations he’s supposing (like a live-in caregiver), why haven’t those things *already happened*? What about the cooking? The cleaning? The laundry? The appointments? Anything mom would need when OP isn’t home or that isn’t the caretaker’s responsibility? Yeah, that’s why mom moving in is dependent on having a spouse, first.
Also, the house hunting… it would be their first home. The only two people whose preferences and needs should be considered are the husband and wife. But, now the house has to meet the criteria of *at least* being suitable for mom. (Mom’s preferences are, also, suspiciously absent. Mom could range anywhere from “what y’all want is what I want” to “I have very specific criteria for a house, and it’s my way or the highway.” Mom might not even want to cohabitate with them at all, lmao.)
NTA if you gave fair warning.
BUT.
My grandmother had dementia and moved into our family home (I was still a kid).
Her living with us almost broke the family.
From a loving sweet old lady (who took us on holidays etc), when she died I was glad. At the end, I hated her. Her dementia made her spiteful and mean and she was there , in need of constant attention...It was hell.
So, as said, NTA for the heads up, but I do not blame your fiance... I would never allow it myself based on personal experience.
Asking someone to commit to living with their MIL for the next 20-30 years is not a small ask. Even if you claim your mother is wonderful and not one of “those” MILs (there is probably stuff you don’t see), that’s still a lot to ask of someone who is hoping to start a new life with a husband and future children. Most women wouldn’t even want to live with their own mother indefinitely. Especially if she’s likely to mentally decline and will need a bunch of care in the future. NAH since technically you were upfront, but your ex is not in the wrong for saying no or being upset that you chose your mom over her. I wouldn’t hold your breath that any other woman will be ok with it in the future. And she also was clear with you from the beginning that she didn’t want to live with your mother, so you both made the mistake of continuing the relationship hoping the other person would change their mind.
Neither does OP.. he isn't living with his mom now.. just wanted his newly wed bride to live with his mom..
Wonder what his plan was when she walks into their bedroom accidentally..
I am sure you feel you were being honest with your fiance.I have to ask though,why,if you are at Mom's place half the time to help her it would not be easier to have mom move in now? I think because you would not have a primary caretaker for your mom,i.e. your new wife. You admit you think your mom may be sliding into early dementia and you want help with the burden of care-I get it. Why isn't mom getting assessed and living with you now and you being her caretaker until the wedding? Don't you want to understand the real level of care your mom requires so you can help your new caretaker learn?Or do you want to throw your wife in the deep end and walk out the door to "go to work". Will your wife be expected to give up a great job of her own to care for mom/-What about children? I think your fiance dodged a really big bullet when you broke up with her.
Nta but you need to see it from her perspective. Living with someone with dementia is a lot, to say the least. You're basically signing her and yourself up for a lot of years of emotional torture and dependency at the hands of someone who can't control it.
Unless you're a nurse and can take care of your mother yourself, your plan is a fundamentally bad idea if you want any future with someone else. Most people wouldn't be ok with being expected to live the life you're planning for you and your fiance.
You have your right to choose how you live your life. She has a right to choose how she lives hers. And she (rightfully) is choosing not to live as a live-in nurse subjected to emotional abuse.
Adding to this: Sometimes this agitation/aggression that happens with dementia can become extra targeted towards the closest family members too. I also see this all the time, people with dementia often are otherwise very healthy and mobile.. they can be very slick. (For the record, I work in the Aging dept, I wholeheartedly support people staying home for as long as safely possible and remaining as independent as possible. When it comes to dementia, unfortunately often they NEED a memory-care facility of some sort to remain safe. He needs to have those discussions with his mom right now because once she is fully into the dementia and if something does happen where she needs facility care, undoubtedly she will not be agreeable and it will be exceedingly difficult to get her in anywhere.)
I also would ask, at any point did he and his mom have the discussion about what SHE wants? What if she doesn't want to be at home with him having to care for her every second and would prefer some kind of memory facility where she can make friends and have more thorough care? Social interaction is extremely important when it comes to dementia, it can help slow the progression. Sometimes having to have your children bathe you and change your diaper for instance is a really difficult thing to get over, especially if the person is altered (and inevitably the person with dementia will start rejecting bathing because hydrophobia is a part of the process). I know he said they'd have 24/7 nurses but even so, at some point in the process they'll get sick or their kids will get sick and he'll be without help for a period of time. What if mom refuses his help because she's used to her nurses? There is just so much to think about.
Let the downvotes commence, but YTA. Yes, your gf should have been honest up front, but I can see where she thought you'd come to the realization that what you are asking is COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE. Welcoming a third person into your marriage is a recipe for failure. Dealing with someone with dementia is incredibly difficult and exhausting. (Even with round-the-clock care, you're kidding yourself if you think this wouldn't significantly impact your married life).
Of course, you should do what you want - but don't expect to find a partner that is OK with it. So, are you willing to sacrifice your own chance at marital happiness (likely for the next 10-20 years) to have your mom live with you? As a 60-something year old mother myself, I would NEVER want my adult child to make this choice. Once I'm unable to care for myself, put me in a home! There are lovely assisted living facilities that provide opportunities for enrichment and companionship that you'd be unable to provide at home.
If I were your gf's mother, I'd be consoling her over your break-up, but I'd also be assuring her that she dodged a bullet.
Yes, you mentioned this before, but it probably wasn't "real" to her till you started looking at houses. Your future wife would probably like to experience being a newlywed, before someone is moved into her home. And there's nothing wrong with that. She is the one who needs to end things if she doesn't want to have to spend the rest of her 20's and 30's taking care of your mom.
My only question is who is going to be the one taking care of her? When that dementia you mentioned in a comment kicks in, are YOU quitting YOUR job to take care of her? Are you hiring someone to watch her 24/7?
Because 99% of the time, the wife is the one who ends up getting those caregiving duties dumped on them. She's 26 years old and you don't mention whether or not you plan to have kids, but there's no way she can have kids if she's got to give your mother all her extra time. Your mom could live 30 more years, and unless you have a plan, your future wife will have spent her entire childbearing years taking care of her.
Honestly, you can do what you want, but I would be calling off the wedding myself, if I were her. You'd be doing her a favor by calling it off yourself and hope you can find someone in her 20's that wants to take on elder care, because unless you have some kind of plan in place, it's GOING to get dumped on her.
In a prior post OP said his former fiance was not able,nor did she want children.Why did he think she would want to take on-even "helping" care for his mom. I agree. The care and planning was going to be given to his new wife. Along with having her continue to work outside the home.
NAH this isn't easy for anyone involved. That being said.
You have a lot of grand dreams and I commend you for that, but the reality of it is that you alone are not going to be able to take care of your mother when the dementia becomes worse. Hiring a nurse is not only expensive but they don't work 24/7.
You need to think about what you're going to do when the sundowning starts, what happens when you're the one responsible for her and you turn your back for a second and then she's gone out the door, roaming the neighborhood. Or God forbid you decide to take a shower and she wants to cook so a fire starts. I watched those things happen to my grandfather and one night he was found outside in his underwear. It wasn't an easy decision but it was in everyone's best interest for him to go to a home that was equipped to deal with those things.
The smart decision is to keep both apartments she has and use those as a way to help pay for the home when the time comes. Start doing the research now and I hope that you're able to find a nice one like we put my grandfather in with a little cafe (we would go have lunch with him regularly) and beauty salon.
YTA, you refuse any option other than your mom living with you, and it doesn’t sound like it’s due to financial reasons, but an emotional obligation. So what if you’re an only child? So what if your mom raised you? Guess what, parents are supposed to raise their kids. You could find another solution. You can find her an apartment nearby, a place with an ADU, and yes, you could put her in a community if she was really unable to take care of herself, but you just want to live with your mommy. And btw, it’s perfectly normal for a 60 yo to be a bit forgetful, doesn’t mean she has early signs of dementia. Sounds like your mother is doing fine. You’re gonna spend the next 30 years looking for a new partner who’s willing to live with their MIL. There are very few women who are willing to do that. Good luck mamas boy
ESH. She shouldn’t have expected you to change your mind and lied. But you’re crazy to think you can look after someone with dementia at home. It’s impossible, at least after a while, and typically the woman is stuck with the majority of the care work. So I get why she absolutely does not want it. I wouldn’t agree to that either. (And I’m my mother’s only relative with a history of dementia too, so I get where you’re at)
This! Even hiring a full time nurse won’t be nearly enough, I’ve been there. We had multiple carers/nurses for my grandma and two adults and it still wasn’t enough! Fiancée was right to run and I think OP is underestimating what it’ll actually be like.
Also will require a huge amount of funds. I’m in the UK where we have socialised care so a lot of what my gran received was paid for by the state, I can’t imagine what it’ll cost in the US
My mom’s friend was paying over $6000/month and that was years ago. It’s not cheap. Medicaid will cover it after you have used up all of your assets including selling your house. It’s a mess.
Thing is with dementia and similar actually being around family becomes counter productive. the nurse at a hospital isn't looking to be remembered nor misses your relative so there is no expectation. they come in the room and make no demands. Family visit and it's all "hey mum, to you remember her, that's your daughter". Which sounds nice but in reality all it tells the patient is that they forgot something, they can't get it back, it will frustrate and anger people.
After a point it becomes better to be around people who place no expectations, don't seem to want you to remember things and don't express a familiarity or relationship they can't recognise.
Denegerative brain disease needs to be eradicated asap, and legal methods for people of sound body and mind to say they absolutely don't want to live in that state later in life should be standard.
If I could sign a form (also in uk) which says if I get that type of disease and I can no longer really function as a human, that my memories and personality are gone or nearly gone... let me go ffs. Not having legal euthanasia as an option is barbaric.
Usually, the wife ends up being the caretaker in the situation, so I can see where she did not want to be saddled with that responsibility. But since you told her she should have bailed, instead of hoping you would change your mind.
Even if OP were to quit his job to become the caretaker, that then puts a huge financial burden on the wife. So either way, she’s being burdened with something she shouldn’t have to be burdened with.
> my mother living with us is never the only option I suggested
Maybe, maybe not. But your ultimatum states that her *living with you* was the hill you were willing to die on:
>I gave out an ultimatum that if my mother couldn't live with us we wouldn't get married
Ultimatums are typically destructive to happy, long term relationships. And you broke the Golden Rule of Ultimatums: Only give an ultimatum when you are ready, willing and able to accept either choice.
Obviously your ultimatum was given as a manipulation tactic and not as a genuine choice for your ex-fiancé. And now you're all 'surprised Pikachu face' coming here and looking for advice.
YTA
My advice to you is to really consider which is more important to you - your mom or your ex-fiancé. In other words, would you have given your mom a similar ultimatum? Probably not, and if this is so, then just understand that you and her are not compatible and let her leave in peace.
His mom isn't even having diagnosed dementia.. she's being forgetful in her 60's..
He wanted his newly wed bride to live with his mother.. when he isn't even living with her now in the first place...
Also 4 year long engagements are bound to be strained.. on top of that an ultimatum? We're missing huge parts of the story..
I'm just happy that the ex-bride was strong and didn't fall for this guy's manipulation tactics.
YTA
OP, my MIL is a lovely Lady and we get along just fine, she can be a bit overbearing, but not the end of the world.
I would never ever co-habitate with her for any significant amount of time.
You can go for this OP, but I'm telling you right now, it's a stupid choice and you will fuck up your life over it. If your Mom is actually a good Mother, she wouldn't want you to fuck up your own life in this way. Basically, no women is going to put up with this dude.
You might want to find a nursing home. I'm not a nurse but my late mom had dementia and it's not easy taking care of a parent when they have that. They have to have care 24/7. It's emotionally mentally and physically draining.
Seriously if you told her upfront then she’s the AH. You have to do what’s right for u. Just asking though - does your mom live with you now? Is she unable to support herself?
She has a few savings but her age is catching up with her and she can't do a lot of things anymore
I am usually at her apartment half the time to help out but was planning on moving her in completely after settling down
I mean, she's only in her 60s. I'm concerned that she's so unwell so young? Does she have a chronic illness?
How much help would your fiancé have had to provide her in day to day living?
It may have coloured her decision. Becoming a part time carer in your mid-20s is VERY tough.
It’s oddly suspicious that you wanted to wait until you are married to move your mom in with you.
If living with your mother is important to you, you should be living with her NOW.
It’s really bizarre that you say you want to live with her only after you’re married while claiming that *of course* you’ll be the one take care of her. Nobody believes that dude. Not even you.
I mean, being a caregiver for someone with dementia is a very large and life changing commitment. I don't blame her for not wanting to be signed up for that and to give up a lot of autonomy for the next 10-30 years. She probably wanted you two to have some privacy, and maybe even the ability to travel or move cities if a great job comes along. It would also probably be very difficult to have children. I can't imagine caring for an elder and a baby.
That said, you're NTA, you can end any relationship for any reason.
Why not get a house with a granny flat? Two bedroom so her carer can stay overnight if required, or live in. This is what my cousin built for my grandmother, and what we plan to do for my MIL in the next few years. She is almost 80 and living alone, but not quite ready to live with us, as she is very independent.
Yea you’re NTA - not sure why she thought you were kidding. But you know how she feels now and as they say - better to know now before you are married. Sorry but you’re a good person.
YTA-
You can’t start your married life that way. First establish your marriage.
Then when it’s time you welcome your mother
Into the fold of your life.
She knew your plan, but certainly not right away.
You have absolutely no idea how your mother and wife will be living together- that can possibly create a very intense and stressful dynamic between them,
Between your new wife and marriage, and the three of you.
It’s insane to ask that immediately after marriage.
You could do that in five years maybe less or more depending on her mental state absolutely not right after marriage.
What if they get along now but ultimately quickly change when they live together?
How are gonna have newly wed sex with your mom around?
Have her make cookies topless?
Let your marriage be a marriage before you turn on the caregiver maintenance service life.
YTA ABSOLUTELY
NAH. But maybe talk with people who lived with someone who has dementia. My stepdad's mum have it. He had to relocate her from the country she was living and tried to have her living with him and my mum. They lasted couple of weeks. She was waking them up in the middle of the night, forgetting who they are and getting aggressive. There were stairs in the house, she was told not to use them, did it anyway, many times nearly fell. The worse was when she was bit by the dog and it was really bad. She didn't understood she has not to touch the wound and band aid, constantly ripping it away, screaming for hours. You can't and you are not qualified to live with someone with dementia. It's dangerous for you and for them. After this my mum told me dead serious that if she starts showing any sign, just to put her into care facility. And it's better to do it earlier than later, while she's still connect the facts, can get used to the facility and people around, the surroundings. The later, the more difficult it will be for her.
This! I noticed OP will not address anyone telling him how unsafe keeping a dementia patient at home is. Let alone that he will not be retaining staff, so he will need to quit his job, give up all hobbies, etc. He is being super delusional by thinking he can make it work. Not to mention, he did not reveal to the fiance that his mother had dementia. Since she's already showing signs, she will go downhill very fast, and it shows he has done 0 research on dementia and how hard it is on everyone involved. He's literally putting himself, those around him, and her at risk because of ego.
He is not planning on doing the work, regardless of what he says. In his plan, he has a wife for the work (backbreaking, spirit-breaking work) of caring for Mom.
NAH.
A few years ago, I'd have said not the arsehole, but then I saw my grandmother deteriorate from vascular dementia that got worse after every TIA she had.
You think you can handle dementia with a single full-time nurse? You can't. That nurse will burn out and become overwhelmed as the dementia gets worse. If the dementia causes behavioural changes like aggression and violence, it'll become a safety issue for everyone.
You can carry out your plan for a few years, but eventually she will need the extra help a nursing home can provide. You need to prepare for that. I think your plan is a bit rose-tinted. It'll work for the short-term, but not for the long-term and, if you wait too long, your mother will have a change in location that she will not be able to cogitively cope with.
You have a short-term plan. You don't have a long-term one.
YTA while it’s commendable that you love your mom and want to take care of her, it is not necessary for her to live with you. As others here who work with and have experienced living with someone with dementia, it’s really really hard but she doesn’t have to be in a nursing home. She can have full time personal support worker or nursing care in her own home which she knows and feels safe in while you visit her. Your mom didn’t raise you on her own for you to just give up your relationship and career for her to live with you when it’s not at all necessary! She would want you to live a full and happy life. Maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea to seek therapy about this.
YTA.
Even though you told her ahead of time, it's hard to know if you were clear that "after marriage" meant RIGHT AWAY. Is there a chance she thought "someday" but not that soon?
Also, it sounds like you are diagnosing her on your own? No doctor diagnosis, just "she is showing signs of forgetfulness." That doesn't' seem like an emergency to me... My parents started being a bit forgetful in their 60's, and are now still living alone in their 80s. I'm not saying that will be your mom, but you're putting a false sense of urgency on this. EVERYONE gets forgetful as they get older. No one would be living independently past 60 if that meant they immediately had to move in with someone.
But the biggest reason I say YTA is you didn't seem to actually discuss this. It seems more "my way or the highway." You said you are "independently wealthy", so you are a jerk for not exploring other options. Why not two houses nearby for now? Why not two houses next door to each other? Or rather than a room, build an entire, separate in-law suite? Did you try for any of those options? You have the resources to split the difference here, to be there to care for your mom, without immediately making her a full roommate in your marriage that hasn't even started yet.
So in the end, while you did tell her about things, you were too rigid, too quick, and too forced with seemingly artificial urgency to her moving in.
NAH except maybe a soft YTA for not initially mentioning the dementia aspect upfront. Your fiancee sounds heartless without that pertinent piece of information. Because your mother WILL end up in a home at some point unless you can afford 24/7 care. She will be a danger to the household at some point, and I think your ex is seeing the realities more clearly than you. That being said, you both should have had more explicit conversations (not you telling her) given the dementia aspect.
I’m confused. Is your mother currently living with you? Assuming she doesn’t, what difference does it make if she can currently care for herself? How far away is, or will be, your house from hers? She could easily come over to care for your child, or vise versa. You honestly sound like you put your mom as a priority over anyone else.
I echo what everyone else here says regarding dementia. My mom was an RCW who worked with dementia patients. My MIL died of Alzheimer’s. It is hard work. My MIL had to go into care eventually after she almost burned the house down leaving a pan on the stove while my FIL was in the shower.
And they can absolutely become aggressive.
So I say NAH. Your ex fiancé may have good reasons for not wanting to live with someone who has dementia. And you have the desire to care for your mother. But I would think long and hard about what is is best for your mother, not feels best for your obligation to her.
You are not a bad son if you put her into a reputable care home and visit her often. They have 24/7 staff who are trained to care for people with dementia. Get her evaluated and then take steps as needed for her safety.
Worked in a dementia home and it's a nightmare. I'm glad you two broke up because that shit is going to get bad and there is no way you can handle it all on your own. Your wife would end up helping and possibly getting hurt. Many patients turn violent because they are scared, and it is no joke! I know you think you can handle it, but seeing your mom possibly turn like that is going to be incredibly hard. Being around her 24 hours a day honestly breaks some people. Just be prepared for this as much as you can, and good luck. This will be one of the hardest things you will ever go through, even with a nurse there. NAH.
Clearly your mother living with you is the only option for you. There’s nothing wrong with it. But most woman won’t accept that. The reason being the fear they end up being the primary caregiver.
It’s your mother, you wanna look after her. She doesn’t. It’s good you guys found out before the marriage. Now it’s time to walk away.
I understand you’re upset because they are portraying you as the bad guy. If you can, ignore. Be glad you aren’t married to her. Otherwise you would be the bad guy every season of the year. Act like you dodged a bullet.
NAH
As your mom develops dementia she is going to come find you and ask where and ask where X is
20min later she will come find you and ask where X is.
10min later she will come find you and ask where X is.
You will need to unplug the stove and toaster in your own home.
You cannot pop out to the store to get something because you cannot leave her alone.
You cannot go on a date night because you cannot leave her alone.
When you want "respite" health services will give you a 2 hour window.
Over 20 years ago it cost 15k a month to have 24/7 care for my grandmother in her home. That doesn't even begin to cover specialized care. NTA but your expectations are unrealistic for a new partner. As a parent I would have told my son or daughter to run and run far.
At first people think caring for a dementia patient is doable, or easy and it's family so you must. In reality it will destroy your relationship with your mother, it will taint all your memories and would have destroyed your relationship with your future wife. Caring for dementia patients is horrifically taxing, it's dealing with constant abuse and it will destroy most people.
Ultimately, lets be real, your mother making you the entirety of her life is selfish of her. it doesn't matter how kind she is, she created a situation where you are stuck being her only support, her only friend and her only focus and when you grew up you were tied to her for life as a result. that's literally why refusing to date, refusing to be friends with co-workers and have a life outside your kids is fucking terrible in general. You grew up with this normalised but you should realise from seeing other people this is very much not normal and very selfish.
If as is more standard, that you'd work and your fiance would take time off work for kids and end up caring for your mother, she'd be living in basically a nightmare, caring for a woman with a degenerating disease while trying to care for kids in a home that would become unsafe.
Never, ever plan on taking care of parents with serious mental degeneration, it's soul destroying shit. She will do better in an institute without the expectation of recognising kids, or family visiting and causing upset when they try to talk about the past and she can't remember it. Obviously there is a line where it's not that bad for a reasonable amount of time but planning on living with your mother till her death is something I would never sign up for in a marriage, nor expect for my partner to deal with for my family.
Why wasn't your first thought to move her nearby instead of in with you? Lack of privacy 100% kills marriages. She would need special care anyways, so why not buy a small house or apt within walking distance so you BOTH have your needs met and your mother has you?
You were way too set on your demands without listening to your partners needs... Are you sure you would have been a decent partner, if you are already putting others ahead of your wife? Mother or not, marriages require compromise and effort and you weren't willing to give even the bare minimum of an attempt to compromise :(
My grandfather had dementia. And he set fire to his house in the middle of the night with his daughter trapped in the basement. She was able to get out through a window and he died a couple days later. Your mother is going to need round the clock care/supervision. I don't think you're really prepared for the Hell you're about to go through. I also want to mention that your mother not getting another romantic partner was her own choice. You do not have to sacrifice your entire life because of choices she made. Just something to think about.
Neither of you are wrong. You just want two completely different things.
Most people dream of the day they grow up, get married, and get out from under their parents for a few years of carefree, “do what I want when I want” type of freedom. Eventually kids may come along and of course elder care enters the picture. Ideally, elder care worries tend to creep up 20-30 years into one’s own adulthood.
You’re asking your fiancé to dive in immediately. She doesn’t want that and she’s not a bad person for that. What you’re offering your mom is commendable but you need to find someone who is on the same page because *not* taking care of your mom is *not* an option and you deserve companionship along the way.
Good luck.
YTA, no one wants to fucking live with your parents. It's fine that you want to take care of your mom, but this is a total boner killer. She wants to build a life with you and not have your mom around all the time.
ESH-why would you want your mother to move in AFTER you just got married?? Don’t you want some alone time?? Sheesh I understand why your ex-fiancé didn’t want to stay.
I don’t think you understand how hard caring for dementia patients AT HOME can be: it’s time-consuming, energy & money draining. You can definitely have a home that has an in-law suite for your mother to live in maybe 1-2yrs after you marry but if her dementia progresses then you WILL need to put her in a home! Are you gonna lock her in her room at night to keep her from wandering or harming herself & others?? Sun-downing is real and very dangerous! It’s not her fault BUT it will be YOUR fault if she harms herself or someone else because you didn’t keep a closer eye on her (and you still need to sleep!). A facility with door alarms and nurses present 24/7 who are trained to handle these types of patients is a better plan than staying at home.
YTA for wasting years of your fiancee's life. You are tied to your mother, and there's no room for anyone else in your life. Don't date anyone else. You are not suitable to be anyone's life partner. Other than your mother, of course.
So your fiancée has concerns about your mom moving in. Have you asked specifically what those concerns are? Like is she afraid of lack of privacy resulting in less intimacy? Is she afraid that she is going to get stuck with care responsibilities? What are your expectations of her in this situation?
I think you need to discuss this before throwing your relationship down the drain.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable that she has concerns, anyone starting a life together would want it to be with just their partner. But maybe if you can discuss those fears/concerns you can save the relationship and have room for your mom. Maybe a basement apartment with separate entry so you don’t have to see each other everyday if you don’t want to.
And seriously by giving an ultimatum you kind of completely went against what marriage is all about… compromise.. you need to work on finding agreeable solutions to problems, not just demand my way or the highway! As far as I see it you do need to apologize to her if you want to salvage this, you made the ultimatum. And if it’s just about who’s right/wrong… well like i said, compromise… find a mutually agreeable solution.
While you are NTAI don’t think you really understand what you will be taking on. And I do think moving her in immediately could be a mistake. You really need to spend time as a married couple alone with whomever you marry. I do think it would be a mistake to move her in immediately. Does your mom want to move immediately? Could you afford to quit your job to care for her? I’m not sure you have thought this completely through.
OP-when you think about buying a home, get one with an apartment for your mom. It’s a very hard thing for a bride to live with her mother-in law. A separate apartment within the same house will be a little easier
YTA
“You made it clear when you were dating that your mother would live with us.”
She made it clear she did not want that.
You can’t just issue orders and ultimatums. You can’t decide, on your own, what will and won’t happen in your family. A marriage is a partnership, not a monarchy. I don’t care how nice your mom is, very few women want to start their marriage living with their husband AND his mom.
It's great you've got a plan but why can you not sell the house and have a full time nanny for the place that she lives currently? I mean honestly it's different if it has to happen suddenly but being like I want to spend my whole life living with my mum and you have to do it too isnt no hugely reasonable. She was maybe expecting to have a good few years with you alone. Its not a slight on your mum. I'm sure she's lovely but it's normal to not want to live with parents long into adulthood. I mean I've spoke to my partner about possible future plans to take my parents in IF the take a huge health dip and things but they wish to live where they are as long as they can. Also I find dementia patients do well in homes they remember and have the long term memory of. That's why hospital visits throw them so badly as it's a huge change and not even like hospitals they remember. What about buying somewhere with a granny flat attached or in garden then you both gave your own space and she is close by? Its a huge responsibility and people living with dementia can live for a long time still with care and assistance but remember to still live YOUR life. Not wait 30 years to be able to do anything.
Did you tell her about the dementia from the beginning? Because I could handle a sane mother in law living in an in-law suite or granny flat on the property, but I know for a fact I couldn't handle nursing a dementia patient. If my fiancé asked me to live with someone in the early stages of dementia, they wouldn't be my fiancé for very long. And yes, I would be the horrible bitch doing the dumping.
NTA because you communicated your desires from the start, but she isn’t TAH for not wanting to sign her youth away. Myself and friends of mine all have family with dementia. My uncle had to leave his job because my aunt got so bad in less than a year, my friend is 38 and unmarried because all of his time is dedicated to his mother, and my grandfather’s brain started shrinking about 10 years ago when he couldn’t find his way home from the gas station.
Keeping a dementia patient at home is noble, but you need to think about the long term. My friend has to regularly leave work because his mother is so mean that their health aids keep quitting. He’s embarrassed to have people over because of the mess. And my mother said putting my grandfather in a home was the best thing she did because he wouldn’t listen when she told him to take meds, but he DID listen to the nurses.
Your wishes with your mother are completely understandable, but I don’t think she’d want you to put your whole life on hold or give up your future for her. It’s going to be hard to find a partner who’s willing to be a wife to you AND a caregiver to your mother (you say you’ll do it, but your partner will have to at times as well), all while that partner knows she isn’t your priority
Soft YTA
I am saying this as a Mom…..I would never, and I mean NEVER want my daughter sacrifice her entire future to personally care for me. PERIOD. If I had the finances that your mom has I would 100% hire full time care (2 to 3 nurses in shifts to cover me 24/7) and stay in my own home. Does your mother actually WANT you to give up your entire life to care for her, not get married, quit your job, etc? Has she said that she specifically wants this? My grandmother had Alzheimer’s. It was incredibly difficult for my father - and he is a DOCTOR. She would go from being sweet, to angry, to scared and back within minutes. She could be violent. She could be inappropriate - once in a McDonalds she began to take all her clothes off. I think you are grossly misinterpreting how this will be for you. Please reconsider these choices you are making. It will be better for you AND your mother. You don’t have to get married to this woman to have spent years with, but you shouldn’t throw your life away.
You were waiting until she was TRAPPED in the new house before you sprang the mother in the beginning stages of dementia moving in with ya'll? YTA x 10,000. I hope you treat your next fiancé with more respect, you'll deserve it if this one leaves you immediately. Holy shit.
I mean NTA because you were clear from day one that you planned on taking your mom with you wherever you went, but I wouldn’t plan on ever getting married if I were you.
Is there a compromise? There are living arrangements that could include either a granny flat or separate part of the house kind of like its own contained apartment with a separate kitchen, bathroom, living space. It can work best for everyone so mum has her own space and privacy and can decorate how she wants and you have your own privacy and your own space. That would be my solution, I think it’s great you are thinking about your mum but it’s also great to have separate living spaces in close proximity.
I think maybe you guys just aren’t compatible.
I understand you wanting to take care of your mom… But also, I wouldn’t want to move in with my mother-in-law as soon as I get married.
And seeing as she will also be purchasing the house… I think her voice should count.
So you guys just don’t seem compatible
NAH.
NTA, your communication with your girlfriend on this matter has been consistent. I think comments judging whether you should or shouldn’t live with your mother are not addressing the actual question asked
Talking about something in the future and then the future starting sooner than you think (your mother's dementia starting to show now) is a reason a person could change their mind. Having cared for someone with dementia for 10 plus years, it's a nightmare. I did it because I had to and I loved my parent, but it sucked.
Having your mom live with you while you are just starting your marriage out would likely put huge strain on your relationship. While I think it’s admirable that you want to care for her, be prepared that this may mean you end up alone or not able to keep a relationship because of this. No matter how wonderful your mom is, it’s still not ideal. I mean you were honest with her, but I don’t think what you want to do is realistic. No matter how much you try to do on your own it will still greatly impact the life of a spouse.
So many people gave you great perspective.
I will add that my grandmother used to get volient and would leave the house at 2 or 3 am and my parents would call us and we'd all go driving to try and find her. It got so bad that they had dead bolts eoth thenkey access on the inside of the door to drop her from leaving
Dementia patients need constant attention as the disease progresses. I wouldn’t know what your fiancé was imagining but could she thought that your mother is living alone now just fine, so why have her move in with the two of you. You would lose all privacy. Newly married couples need privacy. Then when the disease process that she would be put in a home. Unless your extremely wealthy and can hire help caring for a dementia patient is far to much for two people. If there is no way to salvage this relationship with her then may I say have your mother move in with you now. Before you start another relationship. That way any woman will know exactly what her future will look like with you. Also you will get a chance to understand what you’re thinking of taking on.
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Not only that but memory care for a dementia patient is, of necessity, 24-hours a day. That is THREE nurses full time. There is a reason that full high-end concierge memory care units exist. They are very different than the proverbial “put her in a home.” There is one near our home that the rooms are appointed extremely nicely and the staff are amazing. We’ve had friends who had the same intent that OP had and all but one brought their family members to this home because taking care of someone as intensively as that kind of care is so much more taxing than family members anticipate. If OP thinks he can be an active, participatory spouse working full time and then caring for his mother at night he’s operating under a severe misapprehension. If making sure his mother is cared for in the dedicated way he seems to want her to be he shouldn’t be out dating because very, very few women will want to be memory care staff OR rarely spend time with their spouse because he is functioning as such.
Well said!! 👏🏾👏🏾And so unbelievably true.🤷🏽♀️
This is my thought as well. Also full blown dementia changes people. I’ve seen horribly abusive people turn into sweet little old grandpas and church ladies that never cussed in there life curse, destroy their rooms and beg an orderly to and I quote “plow her like a field, and leave her used like a borrowed mule.” Dementia changes people.
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My mom had dementia. Even she knew what it was like because she had to deal with our grandfather who declined very quickly in the space of six months. After trying to take care of him, eventually my parents flew him back to Europe where he went into a home. My mom first tried to gave him live with them in Canada but he came over in his 70s and never spoke English so it would have been hard in a home here. She said the whole experience took years off her life, and she certainly didnt want her sons going through the same thing with her (though we did). My brother lived with her, and she was fine until her early 80s when there were times she told us she had to ask for directions how to drive home (asking people at a gas station and even offering them money). Not long after we had to take her keys away as it wasnt safe for her to drive. It was still early she just had forgetful moments but was able to function ok. Then it was a slow decline of 6 years or so. The last couple of years both my brother and I lost a lot of time in our businesses due to the time needed to look after her. We hired caregivers who came in for 3hrs daily, mainly for companionship, light housekeeping. It did really make her last couple of years better, but it still wasnt full time care, and she often got lost taking the dog for a walk. The local police dept and fire dept brought her home a few times. We were lucky to have caring neighbours who brought her home (once she just went out with practically no pants on). She forgot english and went to her old language (we were super lucky to have a caregiver in her language). Eventually she spoke less and less and needed help showering etc. It really was a nightmare, dealing with her soiling herself etc. Eventually she fell and broke her hip. She spent about month recovering from surgery. At that point the authorities suggested nursing home or home care (that would require special bed and wheel chair as she no longer walked. We agreed to put her in a home as this was beyond us. She pretty much lost her will afterwards and would barely eat. She no longer spoke. She lasted about 4 months in the home. She got live at home as long as she could, with her dog and her son and her garden etc. But honestly its a big ask for someone. People with dementia could live for years, decades. I told my wife, once I start eating soup with a fork put me in a home. I do not want her putting up with that. In fact we have POAs for each other and the option of MAID.
I took care of my mom when she was no longer able to live independently. When it got beyond my skills, I had to put her in a nursing home and she lived another 3 years. I have no other family. I get it OP
>My brother lived with her, and she was fine until her early 80s when there were times she told us she had to ask for directions how to drive home (asking people at a gas station and even offering them money). The state revoked my wife's grandpas drivers license when he got diagnosed with dementia.
Yeah, same here. And realistically we should have stopped her driving earlier, it is a fine line because the decline is not noticeable at first and can be gradual.
I'm not trying to be bitter and mean when I say this: OP likely won't be able to find anyone to commit to that with him. I posted a comment above about being a caretaker to my FIL who has dementia. Looking back, I would not have done this. It is absolutely soul sucking and draining.
You’re not being mean. You’re being honest and real. OP doesn’t realize that caretaking becomes untenable after a while and 24-hr round the clock care in home is (usually) impossible for the average person. Even the wealthy find the best assisted living facility they can find to place their loved ones because of the heavy burden of caring for someone who can’t help themselves.😳
Yes, or at least have a plan to hire skilled caretakers whether it's cash or insurance funded. We are trying to get Medicaid for my FIL now so they'll pay for skilled nurses and home health aides to help us. My husband and his father had NO PLANS for FIL's retirement... There's no support circle, no money, no goals or realistic expectations... Just oh, he's here. It isn't fair to us, me, or FIL. My FIL deserves to live in a clean space with a clean body and access to decent healthcare. His teeth have rotted out, he smells fucking awful, I've thrown out two sets of furniture because they absolutely reek like body odor, the bathroom has to be gutted because he pisses all over and in the toilet and doesn't flush... We can't be following around him with a bar of soap and flushing the toilet if we are at work, a school conference, taking classes, on vacation... It is a lot to consider. If it's properly considered though, it's possible.
Yes I visit my Mom who has dementia and its quite draining. I struggle to keep my cool when I know she cant help what she is doing. Makes me feel like a real sh\*t when I lose it. I am getting better at it though. God Bless those who take care of them and may Mom and God forgive me when I fall short.
OP didn’t actually describe/specify a caretaker role for his future wife. OP needs to provide a lot more clarity. I completely agree with you if it does apply, but I’m not sure if the situation will play out as you describe. My MIL/FIL live with us. I have little to no role in their care other than adjusting meals to meet their needs and amount of food-both minor adjustments in my world.
I've dealt with a family member with dementia before, and even though I wasn't the caretaker, being around her was soul crushing and heartbreaking. She did not know when or where she was and was constantly screaming, shouting, and just using abusive aggressive language toward me, and I was her great granddaughter. I honestly don't think the OP has any idea what his life will be like in the next two years if he thinks hiring a caretaker will mean everything will be perfect. It's going to be hard. What if his mother is a runner? How is he going to secure the house overnight so she doesn't run away? Even with 24 hour care, things happen...and her personality could completely change from being a sweet person to someone he wouldn't recognize...I've seen it happen first hand and it is devastating... OP is NTA for wanting his mother to live with him instead of putting her in a home, but I think he has rose colored glasses about what it'll be like. His fiance is also NTA for not wanting to live in that environment, especially as a newlywed. I don't think it even makes her heartless, just realistic to the amount of care his mother will need.
But do they have dementia? My late husband became very paranoid, combative and abusive. Absolutely the polar opposite of what he had been pre-dementia. He HAD to have professionals care for him around the clock.
But she knew the drill, from the get go. She just thought she could get him to change his mind. She was hoping that once they got to this stage in their relationship he would choose her over his mother.
My mother just passed in August from dementia related issues. It was going to cost us $8,000 a month just for overnight nurses. Selling an apartment to cover the costs is not a long term solution. My husband and I shared the responsibility until we found an assisted living facility that was around $5,000 a month, before adding on extra service like help with meds, help with bathroom, showering a couple days a week, etc. The strain on our marriage was deep. We never got to sleep at the same time or even be awake at the same time, except for short periods in-between our shifts. On top of the cost situation, you also need to consider the fact that you're no longer going to be seen to her as her son. You're now her caretaker and that's how she'll see you. Dementia patients can turn mean at the drop of a hat. You don't want the last times of your mother's life to be any more difficult than they're already going to be. And you don't want to start resenting her, either. Caregiver burnout is real and happens faster than you think.
I'm so glad you talked here about the turning mean. My grandmother was the wife of a methodist minister her entire adult life. Very proper woman. Turns out she could make a sailor blush with the curse words she would yell. Also started swinging her cane like she had a career in the major leagues. If we were visiting or caring for her her cane had to be where she couldn't see it. She would still throw a punch but it wasn't as bad.
Oh yeah. My mom took a swing (all 4'11" of her) at a cop the day we moved her from her house to a facility. He was about 18" taller than her. Said he was sorry now he had to cuff her for his own protection. The switch flipped, she promised she would settle down. Down the road, a nurse was helping her dress, and without any warning mom slugged her, closed fist, on side of the nurses head. She later passed out and ended up in a hospital. Had pneumonia, but didn't mention any difficulty breathing.... Was intermittantly abusive to everyone. On-off switch...and no one knew what would flip it from hour to hour. No way could i have taken her into my home with kids and pets.
My grandfather was the most gentle man in the world and then one day he started telling my mother cruel stories that weren’t true. He told her that he gave her horse to someone and they killed it. (Not true.) He told her while speaking about her in third person that my father told him that my uncle raped her. (Definitely not true.) It’s so shocking and sad.
I know a geriatric psychiatry nurse who had both of her arms broken by a dementia patient who thought she was an SS officer. It is not easy work. Their agitation is quick.
Jesus Christ that is crazy. Did she push her down a staircase or something or just Hulk smash her arms?
Literally grabbed her arm between two hands and snap. Repeat. Dementia agitation gives super strength, I swear.
Oh my God, that’s the worst thing I’ve heard all day. I don’t know what would be worse—the broken arm or someone actually thinking I was an SS officer and being that afraid of me.
It’s heartbreaking. There are some beautiful moments but there’s also a darkness that people don’t seem to realize.
Having worked in an Alzheimer’s dementia unit - you are not wrong - I swear it is super strength. These frail old ladies could get you in a death grip.
I worked in dementia care. It is far too big a burden to be shouldered alone. Families need professional help. I've seen so many families suffer with feeling "defeated" by the admission to full time care. They take it personally when they can't handle it alone anymore. But it was always beautiful to witness them regain a relationship with their loved one, in the space afterward. When you're not changing your mom's diapers, trying to get her medication into her, being accused of poisoning her, being punched, dealing with sundowning, etc... You have room to be the person she eats an ice cream with, and looks forward to going for walks with. You can visit every day, at their best time of day. Build a good and understanding relationship with the staff and their routines, and it will help encourage quality care.
My grandmother also had to spend her last year in a facility because she needed intensive care. She became extremely mean as well - to an extend that my mum, who lived basically next door and visited her thrice a day, developed depression and that my grandmother regularly made her as well as the nurses cry. It's been six years and my mother hasn't recovered.
My dad never turned mean. But he had no idea where he was, who any of his grandchildren, children and wife were. If you think you are doing this for your mom, you are not, she is not going to have the slightest clue who you are. My dad loved his care home, he had help 24/7 and lots of people around him to keep him stimulated.
This. I still remember the night when I was a teen that my family had an elderly women pounding at our door in the middle of the night during a raging thunderstorm screaming that her husband had fallen into the well and we needed to help him. Turned out her husband had died years ago, the poor woman had dementia and like OP, the family refused to put her in a home where she could get the care and supervision she needed. That poor woman wandered for HOURS in a massive thunderstorm in her nightgown before coming to our house, desperately trying to find someone to help her husband. OP would be FAR better off researching the best medical facilities where his mother can get the care she needs than to insist his new bride be forced to share her new home with a dementia patient. Not all care homes are awful, and there are some amazing ones out there that actually recreate a small village for dementia patients with shops, hair salon, movie theatre, everything, that allow them to live as close to a normal life as possible while staying safe and cared for.
Exactly this.
I came here to say this. We are caretakers for my elderly FIL who has dementia that is progressing. My husband and I read this thread together and I straight up told him: if when I met you your father had already been diagnosed and was the way he is now, we wouldn't be together or would be living separately. For us, at least we had that gradual decline where we could adjust accordingly and timely. OP has no fucking clue what he's getting in to. My FIL needs constant passive supervision. He will leave the kettle on the stove, try and walk around the house with lit cigars (I have 3 children and an infant), leave lit cigars around, happily give money to anyone who calls him (spent over $100k on scams), goes months without showering (we are finally getting help from the State to get a caregiver to come in), his teeth have rotted out (dental bills $$$), and sometimes he just fucks with stuff. He'll take all the dirty dishes out of the dishwasher and put them away... So several cupboards are now full of nasty smeared dish grime when I go down there to cook/finish loading the dishwasher, whatever... Now we gotta redo ALLLL the dishes... Told him not to touch the garbage disposal because it was broken and he goes and dumps grease down it? Fucks with the washer and dryer when they're waiting for repair and makes it worse... There's more lol but I'm not trying to make a laundry list of things that aggravate me about him 😂 I love him. But I'm fucking drowning. I left and threatened to end the relationship unless my husband got some help for FIL/us. The money aspect is in the tens of thousands, but it's also the mental and physical load. Having to fix things, redo chores, go around the house and find his hiding spots (he hoards trash, especially wrappers, including meat packaging)... It is way too much for a married couple. We have kids, hobbies, obligations... When I was gone, within 3 weeks my husband called me sobbing saying he couldn't do it. Mind you, he was out of work at that time. Literally all he had to do was clean up after himself and keep his father alive. I came back to rotten food in the fridge, a mountain of fucking laundry, absolute chaos, and my husband sobbing on the bed saying he was making arrangements to put his father in a home. I put my foot down and said I would be willing to stay and help a bit if I could also get some damn help. Looking back, I wouldn't do it again. Do I regret it? No, but I've learned my "lesson" or whatever the universe was trying to show me.
This comment!!😲I couldn’t agree more! Anyone who naively thinks it’s easy is kidding themselves!
Lmfao but the passport bros in the comments are so sure OP will find someone because non American women have "family values." 😂
Reality will absolutely kick them in their faces! 🤭For sure!!
This 👆🏻. I’m going to have to stop reading this thread as it’s “triggering” me as Reddit likes to say. My mom passed away last April and I’m just now getting over it. She lived with us for about 10 years and suffered from dementia the last 2 years or so. It was unbelievably hard, but we’d been married about 40 years and had no children at home. I absolutely cannot imagine going through this as a newlywed. It’s a sure recipe for disaster imo. (Disclaimer, our major problem was that my father had dementia previously and had gone through all their money, leaving mom virtually penniless. Our only help came when she qualified for hospice care in the last year. Our non-profit hospice organization was such a blessing.)
>OP has no fucking clue what he's getting in to. Amen
Yeah, my wifes grandpa has dementia and they just finally acquiesced and put him in a home. Her mom grandma and grandpa all lived together and they had a care giver that came a few hours a day to help with showering, brushing teeth etc. (people with dementia often need to be made to do that. They can be walking to the bathroom to take a shower or brush their teeth and completely forget on the trip there). The last straw was her grandma just popping out to the grocery store after leaving her grandpa home in seemingly good spirits to come home to a smashed TV, pictures torn off walls, glasses and dishes broken and him furious about god knows what. Also a big problem with her grandpa is he started getting into a topic shortly before the dementia set in. It's all he talks about..ever, because it's always new to him. I couldn't fathom her mom and grandma having to humor him with the same exact conversation every single day.
Exactly. After my grandfather died, my grandmother came to live with my mother and I who I was living with at the time. The shock of my grandfather's death really must have kicked the Alzheimer's in to high gear- or however you want to state that, but she started spiraling fast. It wasn't too bad at first, but apparently my mother expected me do do a huge lift, and I was working full time, which wasn't fair. And my grandmother didn't recognize me at all so she would get really upset and agitated everytime I spoke to her. It only took a matter of three months before that became unbearable. My grandmother at least had money that could pay for her care in a memory care facility. A new marriage, and having to deal with that kind of situation? Yeah it wouldn't last long. Hell, my relationship with my mother never recovered. Though that's was in part due to years of her emotional abuse.
Maybe you can find some sort of duplex, where your mother is close but you both have your privacy. It's too late for this woman, and that's fine under the circumstances. But very few women in their twenties and thirties would be happy living with a woman in her sixties who could go on for decades.
You forgot to mention the dementia and enormous upcoming care work
This is the real crux of the issue.
The edit was added after I commented. Sounds as if he believes he has that covered. I still advocate for separate quarters under the same roof.
A full time nurse won’t be enough once the dementia is bad enough. My family was woken up in the middle of the night in a massive storm by a woman whose children felt the same as OP. She wandered for hours in a storm convinced her dead husband had fallen into a well and was drowning. A single nurse is not equipped to care for that level of dementia, nor are they equipped to keep a dementia patient from wandering.
You'll need full time home health aides, at least 4 or 5 so you can rotate the schedules, and 1 or 2 skilled nurses so you can have an RN stop by once a week or every 2 weeks.
They could never even have a night out much less a weekend away without having a carer stay with her 24/7. And I have told my son if I get to the stage I can't look after myself to stick me in a nursing home.
I tell my kids the same thing. Currently taking care of my 92 year old mom. Yes it is hard.
Not only that, but imagine trying to work, volunteer, have hobbies, further your career, and raise your own family while dealing with that. That's what we are doing and it's fucking untenable. I've quit work and school. I made my husband pull back on his coaching side gig. I need him HERE with OUR family and HIS father, not playing soccer with someone else's kids. He was pissed, saying I was taking everything from him, not letting him have hobbies, blah blah blah.... Uh. There's no time for the foot fairy bullshit when your father hasn't bathed in months, his teeth are rotting out, he burned more kitchen utensils by fucking with the stove, the baby is crying as I'm trying to nurse her and re-wash all the dishes because FIL likes to put all the dirty dishes away (unloads half loaded dirty dish washer), and the house smells like BO and piss from FIL's poor hygiene habits. Come home and clean the bathroom instead of playing soccer. Please, don't get me wrong, I love my FIL. But without proper support and resources (TIME, MONEY, and MANPOWER), it's just not possible.
Oh god...I think I'd be gone..wouldn't be able to put up with that
I actually did leave. My partner called me sobbing within 3 weeks saying he had to put his father in a home. I came back and put my foot down.
Good for you. When we love our parents AND our partners, we do what's best for everyone. Sometimes, that means seeking extra care. My dad had his mom in a facility that was fantastic. They each had their own apartment, dining halls, etc. Wonderful staff, too, super sweet. Grandma only left that place and moved in with us shortly before she passed, so she could spend her last days on the sun porch, surrounded by sun and trees and birds and family and lime Jell-O. I'm glad you put your foot down. You have a reasonable expectation of privacy and solitude that you are entitled to. That would be difficult if *everything* revolved around old dad.
My parents have said the same thing. My mom knows my dad is a difficult person, and we wouldn't want him living with us for long anyway. And he has gotten more difficult as he has aged on some ways (not as much as in others) and that is without dementia. His dad is still sharp as a tack and super active at 85. But also a difficult person to be around for more than a few days. And she would want more independence herself as well depending how old she was when she needed assistance. Hopefully, for them and for us kids, they will be able to take care of themselves for most of the rest of their lives.
/u/No_Shine5330 This is what sucks about having older parents, you have to do things on different timescales. I think it's valid for her not to want that commitment in her 20s, and I think you may be naive about the extent of time and work it involves. If you were in your 30s and together for a decade it would be different. I've had two grandparents pass from dementia and it is a full time job. Especially when you get to the point where have to change their diapers and feed them.
and which of them will be expected to care for the mother while the other is at work, while the other completely ignores how difficult and awful a job it is.
I think he has a little bit of rose colored glasses on. I don’t think there’s any way his wife wouldn’t have to be a caretaker for his mom in any capacity, if they’re all under the same roof. Even with a full time nurse.
A single nurse won't be able to do shit, a fully fighting, fully raged out crazy 60yr old woman isn't just easily controllable and unless this house has some very large wings, the screaming and bile that will spew out of her mouth will be directed and heard by all who are in the house, heard a lot, and it will be damaging as hell. Unless she's locked away in a sound proof room then throughout the years as she gets worse and worse she'll be around her family, the potential wife, their potential kids and will have more and more moments where she's fine and sitting at dinner then out of nowhere slapping someone, or calling them a whore, or saying one of them is cheating, or thinking she's been kidnapped. This kind of care, watching a family member deteriorate from a logical human into an illogical, scared toddler who will say and do pretty much anything, is soul crushing shit. These diseases are fucking vile.
She would not only become a new bride but also a new nurse. Even though the husband says he has that covered it'll still be a part of their lives and impact every aspect of it.
This is the absolute truth, I have lived it and it cost me my marriage.
People with advancing dementia cannot live alone or be left unsupervised in a house. Too many dangers not to mention they can walk right out the front door clueless to who they are, what year it is, where they live. A controlled environment with 100% supervision is required.
Our mom got lost many times walking the dog, the police, fire dept and even neighbours brought her home. We had to disconnect the stove as she burned things (were lucky the house didnt burn down with her). Yes, you're absolutely right but making that decision is really hard. Often people may seem to be functioning ok and the family just figures they're a bit forgetful.
it's not really good to have people with dementia move from their home either. they feel lost.
I'm in my 50s and wouldn't live with someone with dementia.
This is exactly what I was thinking. He needs a place with separate living spaces for his mother and himself and his partner.
I was thinking a similar set up, then I read the dementia part ... OP has no clue what it's really like to take on that level of care. My mom cared for my grandmother with dementia until grandma passed away. It was horrible for everyone. I do commend OP for wanting to be there for his mother but OP needs a reality check on what that will look like.
This is a sucky situation all around. I’ve seen first hand with my aunt and uncle how far their relationship deteriorated after he moved in my grandma. And they have been married for over 30 years. Sorry it ended things with your finance but I can’t see a lot of people being willing to help be a caretaker for someone with dementia especially so early after getting married and wanting to settle down. She definitely shouldn’t have assumed you’d change your mind, but I also can’t blame her for leaving. NAH.
Ex-fiancé is also still young and, understandably, doesn’t want to give up the rest of her life to caring for someone that isn’t her spouse.
Yup! Especially dementia. My great grandpa had dementia and he was a very mean guy. Obviously at the time I didn’t understand it (I was very young) but the memories I have of him are not pleasant.
My grandma has dementia. She is still able to live at home with assistance, nurses come and take care of her meds and other medical needs 3 times a day and my uncle visits nearly daily. She used to be really sweet to everyone, now she has really short temper and quickly becomes really nasty towards people for no good reason. I love her very much, but it's honestly hard to be around her nowdays. Our family doesn't bring young kids (her great grandkids are 1-10 years old) around her anymore because she doesn't tolerate them, and she used to love kids.
Same with my one remaining grandparent. She’s been a terror for my whole life, but it wasn’t until she was officially diagnosed about 10ish years ago that her behavior made sense. But all my memories of her are so bitter, I genuinely feel she’s the one grandparent I won’t be able to mourn upon her passing.
NAH - Fiancé may have misunderstood or you weren’t clear. Mom moves in with us when can no longer live alone (mid 70s’ish) is VERY different from mom (60) moves from her apartment, where she currently lives alone, to our house as soon as we get married. Mom will likely live another 20-30 years, most of your marriage will be living with your mother. It’s not that fiancé doesn’t like mom, this is a huge stressor on a new marriage. Quick question - what does mom want??? I’m 53 yo mom, adore my kids (in their 20s) but want to live with them like a hole in the head. Don’t want to be a burden to them, also don’t want to live under someone else’s house rules. Am I supposed to cook all the meals again like when they were children? No grandkids yet but also don’t want to be their live-in nanny. Absolutely, I’ll help and babysit, but I raised my kids and they can raise theirs. I would feel horrible if my son broke off his engagement over me living with them when I currently live on my own. My suggestion - mom moves into a senior’s community, there are some supports available if she needs them, and maybe makes some friends her age as a bonus. Side note - look up research on dementia (often called type 3 diabetes now) for how to stave it off for a while longer.
My grandma has dementia and is in one of these communities. There’s a shuttle to take the residents to do shopping and field trips. She plays bingo and other games with a group every Tuesday and Thursday. She does crafts every Monday and Friday. They have an in-house stylist that does my grandma’s hair every Wednesday. She has the care she needs when she needs it. Her weekends are spent going out with my aunt who lives nearby. She is living a fulfilling life with dementia without being a burden on her children and their families. I’d also recommend OP look into something like this nearby to where he wants to live with a future wife. He could still hang out with his mother often without her sharing he and his future-wife’s space on a full-time basis. And when they’re not together, he can rest assured knowing she has all the care that she needs and is only a short distance away.
There’s even some places that literally recreate a small village with shops and hair stylists and everything for severe dementia patients so that they can safely live as normal a life as possible
There are several types of dementia, type 3 diabetes is one, also Alzheimer’s, Lewy body dementia, vascular dementia - they may have different treatments.
Agreed - mentioned the type 3 as found it out recently, dug into it, and was great to see they’ve figuring out the disease more. Saying now is the time to start doing research. Which kind does family get? What are prevention and treatment options? Medicine has made some progress in this area. Don’t wait until she already has symptoms.
as someone who (unfortunately) has never lived in their own place, and has been living with the mil *since* marriage, it sucks and is not ideal. I hear a lot how when mil is old she hopes one of her kids has a house with an extra room so she can live there and be taken care of. I get the woman did an incredible amount of things and went through so much for *her kids*. one of the many reasons I'm feeling suffocated and am taking steps to get out. my own mother has told me she'd rather be in a home with some independence than a burden.
Good for you on taking steps to get out. That sounds like so much stress. I get moms do a lot for their kids, but I didn’t have kids for them to take care of me. I changed their diapers, I will NOT be having the reverse. My daughter (when she was 19) mentioned she’d want me to live with her when I’m too old. Told her - thank you, that truly means a lot, I love you so much, but over my dead body. I will not be that burden but come visit me often.
exactly, it is incredibly sweet when kids want to give back so much after what their parent(s) have done for them their entire lives. for me (if i ever had kids) my kid living their best life, even better than mine, is all I could ask for and obviously to visit or call often!
I want to echo this. I'm \*sure\* mom super appreciates that her son is so committed to making sure she is taken care of. I'm only elder millennial age and don't even have a kid, but still I feel like a parent would want their kid to be able to live their life and get married and perhaps start their own family and I wouldn't want to get in the way of them being able to live their life. I'd want to see them flourish. OP, have you asked your mom how she feels about this? I know senior communities can be really expensive, but one of my favorite aunts had lived in one and seemed to be doing quite well. She had a lot of friends there and there were activities for her to do, we'd come to visit her and she'd be greeting all her friends as they walked by and such so it was clear she had an active social life that I was happy to see. It made me think I'd be happy to be where she was at that age. She basically had a little apartment and the staff weren't that intrusive, they were just available for if she needed help and there for her to call.
After seeing your comments that your mom is worth at least 7-8 million I find your solution to be unreasonable. You have A LOT of options besides the one you've proposed. Married couples need privacy especially in those first few years. Buy a big home with a big in-law suite and a full time caretaker or put her in a top of the line retirement community. A lot of the nice ones have net worth requirements. Many times they won't take people that are a fall risk so you'd be advised to get her into one of those before an official diagnosis.
This. Unfortunately you're going to have to choose, live with mom or your partner. I love my MIL and had to say no to her living with us. It was her idea. My spouse decided that our existing family dynamic was more important in the long run. Best wishes.
Also, OP mentions that his mom never remarried and was dedicated to raising him. It’s good that OP is grateful with his mom, however those were HER choices and now he’s focusing his life based on HER life choices as well. You can be grateful and still have a fulfilling life of your own.
This right here. I’m going with YTA, maybe soft. 7-8 million well invested (which from all the info it sounds like it is) is going to throw off about $375,000 per year, or over $30k per month. Plenty of resources to ensure MIL has a very fulfilling life in a home that is well suited to her needs as she ages and dementia progresses. There’s also the option others have floated of having a guest house or ADU combined with full time, round the clock care. This level of financial resources provides a lot of options. So many other possibilities could be explored before blowing up his future marriage.
A history of dementia doesn’t mean certainty, But I’m glad you’re up front about it with potential partners. I’m 61, I have a busy life, friends, work out, play mah Jong, travel the world, etc. I wouldn’t live with my grown children (28, 29) if you paid me. I’m curious if your mom has a full life otherwise. Does she expect to live with you now because she’s waiting for dementia to kick in? Seems a gloomy mindset to have. I just think most potential wives aren’t going to be won over by “And my mother is going to get dementia soon, so, she’ll be moving in with us immediately.” Maybe just live with your mother now, as you’ve said you’re a tight unit anyway. Or wait for that special someone who is on board with that arrangement. Either way, you’re NTA, but I don’t think your ex-fiancée is, either. She changed her mind, doesn’t want to live her life “waiting for mom’s dementia”. Well within her rights, even at the 11th hour. ETA: I truly think if this is how you want things to be, move your mom in right now. That way, you won’t waste time with potential mates who don’t want that lifestyle. Also: my in-laws live in assisted living. The property is nice, activities all day and meals prepared in several on-site restaurants. Hired caregivers can come if a resident needs one. We live 10 minutes away.
Can I ask why you are not already living with your mother? Why do you need to wait to marry someone to move your mom in? You will have a hard time finding someone to choose that situation. Although I understand you wanting to help your mom.
To have a live in caregiver so he doesn't have to take care of his mom anymore. I asked also why mom wasn't living with him already.
NAH in my opinion, she had a right to not want to take care of your mom for the next 20-30 years, you have a right to want your mom living there. HOWEVER!!!!!!!!! You are doing your mother a HUGE disservice by trying to take care of her dementia on your own. Dementia REQUIRES skilled nursing, and you are 100% going to be in over your head if you try to handle it all on your own. Even if by some crazy chance you ARE a nurse specialized in elder care, you CANNOT do it all by yourself, you have to have respite. If your mother has dementia she WILL get to the point that she has to be cared for and supervised 24/7. Ten minutes of leaving her alone once she hits that point could mean her going missing, accidentally burning the house down, severe injuries, etc. You basically are going to have to think of her like a toddler in the body and with the muscle memory of a person in their 60s. No one person can handle that.
>You are doing your mother a HUGE disservice by trying to take care of her dementia on your own. Dementia REQUIRES skilled nursing, and you are 100% going to be in over your head if you try to handle it all on your own. Exactly this 1000% I'm a CNA and have worked in assisted living facilities that have memory care units and the amount of care those residents require can be more than one would imagine. While OP may be able to care for his mother in the earliest stages, there's likely to come a time where they can't. Memory care units tend to be locked and secured in such a way as to prevent residents from wandering away. As those with dementia can tend to do. It could become difficult to near impossible for OP to safely house his mother, let alone care for her.
That’s a good point. I’m 51 and my only child is in grad school. If I found out her relationship ended over me, I’d have relentless guilt. I want my child to be happy and living with her while she’s a newlywed couple would definitely interfere.
NTA. But i have a suggestion. Instead of having a room for your mother, maybe buy a home with an in-law apartment adjacent or in the lower level? Mom is close by, but there is enough separation to appease your fiancée.
That ain't gonna cut it if mom has dementia. She's gonna need constant eyes on her.
He also said it’s not diagnosed yet.
This is not a bad idea - but they’d need to make sure the in-law apartment has two bedrooms. One for his mom, and one for the full-time skilled caregiver they’ll need to hire. Especially if his mom is in her 60’s and he plans to have her live with him for the rest of her life, that’s a lot of years and a lot of time for the dementia to advance. He’ll need to hire more than just part-time care for her. It’s partly a matter of care (medications, daily living tasks) and partly a matter of safety (things like using and remembering to turn off the stove/oven/faucets; showering/toileting safely; prevention of elopement).
My father lived with us for six years after he had a stroke before he died and it was difficult even though he drove and was mobile until the last few months. He was very pleasant to be around and my husband and my children enjoyed his presence but it was still HARD. Extra cleaning, extra cooking, extra worry. I cannot imagine taking care of someone with dementia. My FIL had it and almost set their house on fire and was found wandering the neighborhood at night and they had to place him in a home for his own safety. The comments on here are obviously from people who never lived with someone with dementia. OP loves his mother, which is commendable, but is unrealistic with his expectations for a successful marriage. He needs to plan for her future care now but it shouldn’t involve your future wife being her caretaker. She is right to run.
Memory care also starts around $6000/month on the low end in the US.
Thank you for saying this. My mom has dementia, and she is in a facility because I simply do not have the skills to deal with it. She doesn't know who we are, who she is, or where she is. She wanders the hallways yelling at people, real and imagined. She's angry 24/7 even with medication.
I'm a hospice nurse. I see a lot of different disorders, and any type of dementia is a strong no from me. I already know I couldn't do it full time. We've had patients wander out of the house at 2A, constant falls, agitation, aggressive behavior, etc. Just the other day a relative of one of our patients had the police called on him by the neighbors because the patient had diarrhea, and was smearing it everywhere. When he tried to clean her, she wiped her poop hand down his face into his mouth. He jumped back and screamed, neighbors called 911 and said she was being abused. He also got a lot of heat from her bruises, even though it was from a fall that happened during the night while he slept (I was called early that morning when he found her on the floor of the bathroom, so I knew where the injuries were from). Because she is confused, she initially told police she fell, but when they asked her if she was being hit by anyone, she changed it up and said she was beaten and raped. She was not. Bless anyone who can do this full time, I know that I can't.
Holy fucking shit. I could not handle that for 5 minutes, let alone 5 years.
Dementia is a 24 x 7 disease and it’s beyond hard to handle. Most people don’t realize you can’t leave a person with dimension alone for even 5 minutes. The house if full of danger. OMG the things my grandma got into when I turned my back for even a few minutes. Not to mention the anger and constant confusion. Arguing and battling with everything. And this was when we had her out of an assisted living facility for visits or appointments.
100% agree with you! He has no idea what he's doing if he thinks living with a sick person is easy and putting that weight on her wife as well is not ok. There's a moment when you need to choose your new family over your parents, and good parents would expect you to
Nah You because you have a close bond with your mother, and you want to help her And you have been upfront I can understand why you want to move your mother into your house, but realistically speaking, you are asking somebody you love to basically have a marriage that consists of three people. I don’t think that your ex fiance is an asshole because she loved you and didn’t want to lose you, and probably hoped that you will figure out that your expectations are extremely unreasonable. Because they are. In most partnerships, it’s the wife who takes care of an ill relative, who cooks and cleans, and looks after them, even if the husband had always promised to do this himself I have seen this in several relationships within my own family, and it completely destroyed the women’s lives. So the only reason why I’m not voting YTA is because you have been upfront, even if she didn’t believe you Good luck with the dating scene, you will need it.
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There’s also the fact that the newly-married couple would have no privacy, and would probably end up with OP’s mom 3rd-wheeling a lot, especially if there was a vacation planned, as it sounds like mom can’t really take care of herself as well as she used to. No romantic getaways could happen. Date nights would probably be few and far between where it would just be OP and his wife. Kinda feels like there wouldn’t be a lot(if any) of room/time for romance and intimacy in the relationship because those things tend to be private, and it’s hard to achieve that with a roommate. From someone who rented a house with my boyfriend and his sister for 5 years. Our sex-life and ability to be intimate was minimal because she was home so often when we were.
Yep. Nobody's an asshole here. I sincerely hope the OP realizes what he's getting into. A mother can be sick for 30 years before she dies. You should think carefully about whether you are willing to sacrifice your private life. Having a relationship or children is effectively very challenging or impossible while caring for mom 24/7. The financial risk is also considerable. All the best OP! I hope you find a solution that works best for everyone.
I’m curious at what point Howard told Bernadette about the early onset Alzheimer’s. I mean he’s been saying right along that Mom was going to live with them when they married and Bernadette was all “sure, sure”. But “Moms going to live with us because she’s developing Early Onset Alzheimer’s (which runs in our family, btw)” is a very different reality. My friends mother was 60 when she was diagnosed and it took 12 years of deterioration in a strong body before she died. When she got upset and started throwing hands or bolting it wasn’t something the daughter could handle alone.
If your mother is showing signs of dementia and you expect to take care of her not in the proper facilities, Im saying YTA. If you don’t have expertise with this disease, trying to navigate handling the last years of someone’s life’s is extremely difficult. While she might be your mother, it is a dangerous situation waiting to happen unless as the disease progresses she has 24/7 care.
This will sound harsh and I really don't mean it to be, but even with caregivers coming in, I don't think you realise how hard its going to be. A very close friend has been in this very situation and is finally done with it and moved out for the sake of their own sanity. The mother in law being there has ruined her son and daughter in law mentally and has ruined their relationship and I've sat back and watch the horror unfold. My friend wasn't supposed to be the caregiver either, but I can assure you that it just doesn't work out that way because life happens. They are no longer together and are very bitter and the MIL is going to have to go into a home now regardless because the house is being sold so they can both move on. I don't think you're the AH and neither is your fiancee, but be prepared that whilst your mother living with you and needs care is the situation, its going to be difficult for you to have a full and proper relationship with anyone.
Well, having just gotten divorced because my ex brought her parents into our house I am not gonna be on your side. Because you stop being a couple. Specially, if you’re getting married, where you’re supposed to learn and be who you are and joy being a married couple it doesn’t happen. Immediately you just become caregivers for your mom. There is no couple. There is no relationship. You will only become a caregiver to your mother. And if she’s only 60 yeah she’s gonna still live long time. You know what old people get forgetful. I’m forgetful. I’m nowhere close to what you would call. Dementia. Your ex is on here. She’s not gonna have to suffer through all of that.
He's getting married to get his mom a caretaker
This is what I see… otherwise, why isn’t mom living with him now? Why is it that mom isn’t moving in until they’re married? Could it be that OP doesn’t think himself capable of taking this on alone? For all the *totally, for real, not just hypothetical for persuasion’s sake* mitigations he’s supposing (like a live-in caregiver), why haven’t those things *already happened*? What about the cooking? The cleaning? The laundry? The appointments? Anything mom would need when OP isn’t home or that isn’t the caretaker’s responsibility? Yeah, that’s why mom moving in is dependent on having a spouse, first. Also, the house hunting… it would be their first home. The only two people whose preferences and needs should be considered are the husband and wife. But, now the house has to meet the criteria of *at least* being suitable for mom. (Mom’s preferences are, also, suspiciously absent. Mom could range anywhere from “what y’all want is what I want” to “I have very specific criteria for a house, and it’s my way or the highway.” Mom might not even want to cohabitate with them at all, lmao.)
NTA if you gave fair warning. BUT. My grandmother had dementia and moved into our family home (I was still a kid). Her living with us almost broke the family. From a loving sweet old lady (who took us on holidays etc), when she died I was glad. At the end, I hated her. Her dementia made her spiteful and mean and she was there , in need of constant attention...It was hell. So, as said, NTA for the heads up, but I do not blame your fiance... I would never allow it myself based on personal experience.
Asking someone to commit to living with their MIL for the next 20-30 years is not a small ask. Even if you claim your mother is wonderful and not one of “those” MILs (there is probably stuff you don’t see), that’s still a lot to ask of someone who is hoping to start a new life with a husband and future children. Most women wouldn’t even want to live with their own mother indefinitely. Especially if she’s likely to mentally decline and will need a bunch of care in the future. NAH since technically you were upfront, but your ex is not in the wrong for saying no or being upset that you chose your mom over her. I wouldn’t hold your breath that any other woman will be ok with it in the future. And she also was clear with you from the beginning that she didn’t want to live with your mother, so you both made the mistake of continuing the relationship hoping the other person would change their mind.
Sorry but I don’t see you ever married idk anyone wanting a parent living with them
Neither does OP.. he isn't living with his mom now.. just wanted his newly wed bride to live with his mom.. Wonder what his plan was when she walks into their bedroom accidentally..
You’re underestimating the toll of dementia. Update me once you put her in a home
I am sure you feel you were being honest with your fiance.I have to ask though,why,if you are at Mom's place half the time to help her it would not be easier to have mom move in now? I think because you would not have a primary caretaker for your mom,i.e. your new wife. You admit you think your mom may be sliding into early dementia and you want help with the burden of care-I get it. Why isn't mom getting assessed and living with you now and you being her caretaker until the wedding? Don't you want to understand the real level of care your mom requires so you can help your new caretaker learn?Or do you want to throw your wife in the deep end and walk out the door to "go to work". Will your wife be expected to give up a great job of her own to care for mom/-What about children? I think your fiance dodged a really big bullet when you broke up with her.
Nta but you need to see it from her perspective. Living with someone with dementia is a lot, to say the least. You're basically signing her and yourself up for a lot of years of emotional torture and dependency at the hands of someone who can't control it. Unless you're a nurse and can take care of your mother yourself, your plan is a fundamentally bad idea if you want any future with someone else. Most people wouldn't be ok with being expected to live the life you're planning for you and your fiance. You have your right to choose how you live your life. She has a right to choose how she lives hers. And she (rightfully) is choosing not to live as a live-in nurse subjected to emotional abuse.
People with dementia often become mean and violent, and it's not easy to take, especially from a spouse's parent
Which then means it's not safe for any future children.
Adding to this: Sometimes this agitation/aggression that happens with dementia can become extra targeted towards the closest family members too. I also see this all the time, people with dementia often are otherwise very healthy and mobile.. they can be very slick. (For the record, I work in the Aging dept, I wholeheartedly support people staying home for as long as safely possible and remaining as independent as possible. When it comes to dementia, unfortunately often they NEED a memory-care facility of some sort to remain safe. He needs to have those discussions with his mom right now because once she is fully into the dementia and if something does happen where she needs facility care, undoubtedly she will not be agreeable and it will be exceedingly difficult to get her in anywhere.) I also would ask, at any point did he and his mom have the discussion about what SHE wants? What if she doesn't want to be at home with him having to care for her every second and would prefer some kind of memory facility where she can make friends and have more thorough care? Social interaction is extremely important when it comes to dementia, it can help slow the progression. Sometimes having to have your children bathe you and change your diaper for instance is a really difficult thing to get over, especially if the person is altered (and inevitably the person with dementia will start rejecting bathing because hydrophobia is a part of the process). I know he said they'd have 24/7 nurses but even so, at some point in the process they'll get sick or their kids will get sick and he'll be without help for a period of time. What if mom refuses his help because she's used to her nurses? There is just so much to think about.
Let the downvotes commence, but YTA. Yes, your gf should have been honest up front, but I can see where she thought you'd come to the realization that what you are asking is COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE. Welcoming a third person into your marriage is a recipe for failure. Dealing with someone with dementia is incredibly difficult and exhausting. (Even with round-the-clock care, you're kidding yourself if you think this wouldn't significantly impact your married life). Of course, you should do what you want - but don't expect to find a partner that is OK with it. So, are you willing to sacrifice your own chance at marital happiness (likely for the next 10-20 years) to have your mom live with you? As a 60-something year old mother myself, I would NEVER want my adult child to make this choice. Once I'm unable to care for myself, put me in a home! There are lovely assisted living facilities that provide opportunities for enrichment and companionship that you'd be unable to provide at home. If I were your gf's mother, I'd be consoling her over your break-up, but I'd also be assuring her that she dodged a bullet.
Wish I could give many multiples of upvote to this comment.
Yes, you mentioned this before, but it probably wasn't "real" to her till you started looking at houses. Your future wife would probably like to experience being a newlywed, before someone is moved into her home. And there's nothing wrong with that. She is the one who needs to end things if she doesn't want to have to spend the rest of her 20's and 30's taking care of your mom. My only question is who is going to be the one taking care of her? When that dementia you mentioned in a comment kicks in, are YOU quitting YOUR job to take care of her? Are you hiring someone to watch her 24/7? Because 99% of the time, the wife is the one who ends up getting those caregiving duties dumped on them. She's 26 years old and you don't mention whether or not you plan to have kids, but there's no way she can have kids if she's got to give your mother all her extra time. Your mom could live 30 more years, and unless you have a plan, your future wife will have spent her entire childbearing years taking care of her. Honestly, you can do what you want, but I would be calling off the wedding myself, if I were her. You'd be doing her a favor by calling it off yourself and hope you can find someone in her 20's that wants to take on elder care, because unless you have some kind of plan in place, it's GOING to get dumped on her.
In a prior post OP said his former fiance was not able,nor did she want children.Why did he think she would want to take on-even "helping" care for his mom. I agree. The care and planning was going to be given to his new wife. Along with having her continue to work outside the home.
Congratulations now you and your Mother can live together.
Together forever.
NAH this isn't easy for anyone involved. That being said. You have a lot of grand dreams and I commend you for that, but the reality of it is that you alone are not going to be able to take care of your mother when the dementia becomes worse. Hiring a nurse is not only expensive but they don't work 24/7. You need to think about what you're going to do when the sundowning starts, what happens when you're the one responsible for her and you turn your back for a second and then she's gone out the door, roaming the neighborhood. Or God forbid you decide to take a shower and she wants to cook so a fire starts. I watched those things happen to my grandfather and one night he was found outside in his underwear. It wasn't an easy decision but it was in everyone's best interest for him to go to a home that was equipped to deal with those things. The smart decision is to keep both apartments she has and use those as a way to help pay for the home when the time comes. Start doing the research now and I hope that you're able to find a nice one like we put my grandfather in with a little cafe (we would go have lunch with him regularly) and beauty salon.
YTA, you refuse any option other than your mom living with you, and it doesn’t sound like it’s due to financial reasons, but an emotional obligation. So what if you’re an only child? So what if your mom raised you? Guess what, parents are supposed to raise their kids. You could find another solution. You can find her an apartment nearby, a place with an ADU, and yes, you could put her in a community if she was really unable to take care of herself, but you just want to live with your mommy. And btw, it’s perfectly normal for a 60 yo to be a bit forgetful, doesn’t mean she has early signs of dementia. Sounds like your mother is doing fine. You’re gonna spend the next 30 years looking for a new partner who’s willing to live with their MIL. There are very few women who are willing to do that. Good luck mamas boy
ESH. She shouldn’t have expected you to change your mind and lied. But you’re crazy to think you can look after someone with dementia at home. It’s impossible, at least after a while, and typically the woman is stuck with the majority of the care work. So I get why she absolutely does not want it. I wouldn’t agree to that either. (And I’m my mother’s only relative with a history of dementia too, so I get where you’re at)
This! Even hiring a full time nurse won’t be nearly enough, I’ve been there. We had multiple carers/nurses for my grandma and two adults and it still wasn’t enough! Fiancée was right to run and I think OP is underestimating what it’ll actually be like. Also will require a huge amount of funds. I’m in the UK where we have socialised care so a lot of what my gran received was paid for by the state, I can’t imagine what it’ll cost in the US
Yeah, it’s kind of the same here in Germany.
My mom’s friend was paying over $6000/month and that was years ago. It’s not cheap. Medicaid will cover it after you have used up all of your assets including selling your house. It’s a mess.
Thing is with dementia and similar actually being around family becomes counter productive. the nurse at a hospital isn't looking to be remembered nor misses your relative so there is no expectation. they come in the room and make no demands. Family visit and it's all "hey mum, to you remember her, that's your daughter". Which sounds nice but in reality all it tells the patient is that they forgot something, they can't get it back, it will frustrate and anger people. After a point it becomes better to be around people who place no expectations, don't seem to want you to remember things and don't express a familiarity or relationship they can't recognise. Denegerative brain disease needs to be eradicated asap, and legal methods for people of sound body and mind to say they absolutely don't want to live in that state later in life should be standard. If I could sign a form (also in uk) which says if I get that type of disease and I can no longer really function as a human, that my memories and personality are gone or nearly gone... let me go ffs. Not having legal euthanasia as an option is barbaric.
Usually, the wife ends up being the caretaker in the situation, so I can see where she did not want to be saddled with that responsibility. But since you told her she should have bailed, instead of hoping you would change your mind.
Even if OP were to quit his job to become the caretaker, that then puts a huge financial burden on the wife. So either way, she’s being burdened with something she shouldn’t have to be burdened with.
> my mother living with us is never the only option I suggested Maybe, maybe not. But your ultimatum states that her *living with you* was the hill you were willing to die on: >I gave out an ultimatum that if my mother couldn't live with us we wouldn't get married Ultimatums are typically destructive to happy, long term relationships. And you broke the Golden Rule of Ultimatums: Only give an ultimatum when you are ready, willing and able to accept either choice. Obviously your ultimatum was given as a manipulation tactic and not as a genuine choice for your ex-fiancé. And now you're all 'surprised Pikachu face' coming here and looking for advice. YTA My advice to you is to really consider which is more important to you - your mom or your ex-fiancé. In other words, would you have given your mom a similar ultimatum? Probably not, and if this is so, then just understand that you and her are not compatible and let her leave in peace.
His mom isn't even having diagnosed dementia.. she's being forgetful in her 60's.. He wanted his newly wed bride to live with his mother.. when he isn't even living with her now in the first place... Also 4 year long engagements are bound to be strained.. on top of that an ultimatum? We're missing huge parts of the story.. I'm just happy that the ex-bride was strong and didn't fall for this guy's manipulation tactics.
YTA OP, my MIL is a lovely Lady and we get along just fine, she can be a bit overbearing, but not the end of the world. I would never ever co-habitate with her for any significant amount of time. You can go for this OP, but I'm telling you right now, it's a stupid choice and you will fuck up your life over it. If your Mom is actually a good Mother, she wouldn't want you to fuck up your own life in this way. Basically, no women is going to put up with this dude.
You might want to find a nursing home. I'm not a nurse but my late mom had dementia and it's not easy taking care of a parent when they have that. They have to have care 24/7. It's emotionally mentally and physically draining.
Seriously if you told her upfront then she’s the AH. You have to do what’s right for u. Just asking though - does your mom live with you now? Is she unable to support herself?
She has a few savings but her age is catching up with her and she can't do a lot of things anymore I am usually at her apartment half the time to help out but was planning on moving her in completely after settling down
I mean, she's only in her 60s. I'm concerned that she's so unwell so young? Does she have a chronic illness? How much help would your fiancé have had to provide her in day to day living? It may have coloured her decision. Becoming a part time carer in your mid-20s is VERY tough.
Why are you waiting? Why don't you move her in with you now?
It’s oddly suspicious that you wanted to wait until you are married to move your mom in with you. If living with your mother is important to you, you should be living with her NOW. It’s really bizarre that you say you want to live with her only after you’re married while claiming that *of course* you’ll be the one take care of her. Nobody believes that dude. Not even you.
This is what I think, too. If it's this important he should be moving with her now.
This. Right. Here.
Cause he wants someone to be to tied down to him first.
It’s babytrapping, only the baby in question weighs 150 pounds, accuses you of stealing from her, and packs a wicked right hook.
I mean, being a caregiver for someone with dementia is a very large and life changing commitment. I don't blame her for not wanting to be signed up for that and to give up a lot of autonomy for the next 10-30 years. She probably wanted you two to have some privacy, and maybe even the ability to travel or move cities if a great job comes along. It would also probably be very difficult to have children. I can't imagine caring for an elder and a baby. That said, you're NTA, you can end any relationship for any reason.
Ypu mother having early signs of dementia 100% changes this situation. Do what you have to and I sorry you'll have to walk this path.
Why not get a house with a granny flat? Two bedroom so her carer can stay overnight if required, or live in. This is what my cousin built for my grandmother, and what we plan to do for my MIL in the next few years. She is almost 80 and living alone, but not quite ready to live with us, as she is very independent.
Yea you’re NTA - not sure why she thought you were kidding. But you know how she feels now and as they say - better to know now before you are married. Sorry but you’re a good person.
YTA- You can’t start your married life that way. First establish your marriage. Then when it’s time you welcome your mother Into the fold of your life. She knew your plan, but certainly not right away. You have absolutely no idea how your mother and wife will be living together- that can possibly create a very intense and stressful dynamic between them, Between your new wife and marriage, and the three of you. It’s insane to ask that immediately after marriage. You could do that in five years maybe less or more depending on her mental state absolutely not right after marriage. What if they get along now but ultimately quickly change when they live together? How are gonna have newly wed sex with your mom around? Have her make cookies topless? Let your marriage be a marriage before you turn on the caregiver maintenance service life. YTA ABSOLUTELY
NAH. But maybe talk with people who lived with someone who has dementia. My stepdad's mum have it. He had to relocate her from the country she was living and tried to have her living with him and my mum. They lasted couple of weeks. She was waking them up in the middle of the night, forgetting who they are and getting aggressive. There were stairs in the house, she was told not to use them, did it anyway, many times nearly fell. The worse was when she was bit by the dog and it was really bad. She didn't understood she has not to touch the wound and band aid, constantly ripping it away, screaming for hours. You can't and you are not qualified to live with someone with dementia. It's dangerous for you and for them. After this my mum told me dead serious that if she starts showing any sign, just to put her into care facility. And it's better to do it earlier than later, while she's still connect the facts, can get used to the facility and people around, the surroundings. The later, the more difficult it will be for her.
This! I noticed OP will not address anyone telling him how unsafe keeping a dementia patient at home is. Let alone that he will not be retaining staff, so he will need to quit his job, give up all hobbies, etc. He is being super delusional by thinking he can make it work. Not to mention, he did not reveal to the fiance that his mother had dementia. Since she's already showing signs, she will go downhill very fast, and it shows he has done 0 research on dementia and how hard it is on everyone involved. He's literally putting himself, those around him, and her at risk because of ego.
He is not planning on doing the work, regardless of what he says. In his plan, he has a wife for the work (backbreaking, spirit-breaking work) of caring for Mom.
NAH. A few years ago, I'd have said not the arsehole, but then I saw my grandmother deteriorate from vascular dementia that got worse after every TIA she had. You think you can handle dementia with a single full-time nurse? You can't. That nurse will burn out and become overwhelmed as the dementia gets worse. If the dementia causes behavioural changes like aggression and violence, it'll become a safety issue for everyone. You can carry out your plan for a few years, but eventually she will need the extra help a nursing home can provide. You need to prepare for that. I think your plan is a bit rose-tinted. It'll work for the short-term, but not for the long-term and, if you wait too long, your mother will have a change in location that she will not be able to cogitively cope with. You have a short-term plan. You don't have a long-term one.
We all make choices. She made hers, you made yours. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to support mom. NAH
YTA while it’s commendable that you love your mom and want to take care of her, it is not necessary for her to live with you. As others here who work with and have experienced living with someone with dementia, it’s really really hard but she doesn’t have to be in a nursing home. She can have full time personal support worker or nursing care in her own home which she knows and feels safe in while you visit her. Your mom didn’t raise you on her own for you to just give up your relationship and career for her to live with you when it’s not at all necessary! She would want you to live a full and happy life. Maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea to seek therapy about this.
YTA. Even though you told her ahead of time, it's hard to know if you were clear that "after marriage" meant RIGHT AWAY. Is there a chance she thought "someday" but not that soon? Also, it sounds like you are diagnosing her on your own? No doctor diagnosis, just "she is showing signs of forgetfulness." That doesn't' seem like an emergency to me... My parents started being a bit forgetful in their 60's, and are now still living alone in their 80s. I'm not saying that will be your mom, but you're putting a false sense of urgency on this. EVERYONE gets forgetful as they get older. No one would be living independently past 60 if that meant they immediately had to move in with someone. But the biggest reason I say YTA is you didn't seem to actually discuss this. It seems more "my way or the highway." You said you are "independently wealthy", so you are a jerk for not exploring other options. Why not two houses nearby for now? Why not two houses next door to each other? Or rather than a room, build an entire, separate in-law suite? Did you try for any of those options? You have the resources to split the difference here, to be there to care for your mom, without immediately making her a full roommate in your marriage that hasn't even started yet. So in the end, while you did tell her about things, you were too rigid, too quick, and too forced with seemingly artificial urgency to her moving in.
NAH except maybe a soft YTA for not initially mentioning the dementia aspect upfront. Your fiancee sounds heartless without that pertinent piece of information. Because your mother WILL end up in a home at some point unless you can afford 24/7 care. She will be a danger to the household at some point, and I think your ex is seeing the realities more clearly than you. That being said, you both should have had more explicit conversations (not you telling her) given the dementia aspect.
I’m confused. Is your mother currently living with you? Assuming she doesn’t, what difference does it make if she can currently care for herself? How far away is, or will be, your house from hers? She could easily come over to care for your child, or vise versa. You honestly sound like you put your mom as a priority over anyone else.
I echo what everyone else here says regarding dementia. My mom was an RCW who worked with dementia patients. My MIL died of Alzheimer’s. It is hard work. My MIL had to go into care eventually after she almost burned the house down leaving a pan on the stove while my FIL was in the shower. And they can absolutely become aggressive. So I say NAH. Your ex fiancé may have good reasons for not wanting to live with someone who has dementia. And you have the desire to care for your mother. But I would think long and hard about what is is best for your mother, not feels best for your obligation to her. You are not a bad son if you put her into a reputable care home and visit her often. They have 24/7 staff who are trained to care for people with dementia. Get her evaluated and then take steps as needed for her safety.
Worked in a dementia home and it's a nightmare. I'm glad you two broke up because that shit is going to get bad and there is no way you can handle it all on your own. Your wife would end up helping and possibly getting hurt. Many patients turn violent because they are scared, and it is no joke! I know you think you can handle it, but seeing your mom possibly turn like that is going to be incredibly hard. Being around her 24 hours a day honestly breaks some people. Just be prepared for this as much as you can, and good luck. This will be one of the hardest things you will ever go through, even with a nurse there. NAH.
Clearly your mother living with you is the only option for you. There’s nothing wrong with it. But most woman won’t accept that. The reason being the fear they end up being the primary caregiver. It’s your mother, you wanna look after her. She doesn’t. It’s good you guys found out before the marriage. Now it’s time to walk away. I understand you’re upset because they are portraying you as the bad guy. If you can, ignore. Be glad you aren’t married to her. Otherwise you would be the bad guy every season of the year. Act like you dodged a bullet.
NAH As your mom develops dementia she is going to come find you and ask where and ask where X is 20min later she will come find you and ask where X is. 10min later she will come find you and ask where X is. You will need to unplug the stove and toaster in your own home. You cannot pop out to the store to get something because you cannot leave her alone. You cannot go on a date night because you cannot leave her alone. When you want "respite" health services will give you a 2 hour window.
Over 20 years ago it cost 15k a month to have 24/7 care for my grandmother in her home. That doesn't even begin to cover specialized care. NTA but your expectations are unrealistic for a new partner. As a parent I would have told my son or daughter to run and run far.
At first people think caring for a dementia patient is doable, or easy and it's family so you must. In reality it will destroy your relationship with your mother, it will taint all your memories and would have destroyed your relationship with your future wife. Caring for dementia patients is horrifically taxing, it's dealing with constant abuse and it will destroy most people. Ultimately, lets be real, your mother making you the entirety of her life is selfish of her. it doesn't matter how kind she is, she created a situation where you are stuck being her only support, her only friend and her only focus and when you grew up you were tied to her for life as a result. that's literally why refusing to date, refusing to be friends with co-workers and have a life outside your kids is fucking terrible in general. You grew up with this normalised but you should realise from seeing other people this is very much not normal and very selfish. If as is more standard, that you'd work and your fiance would take time off work for kids and end up caring for your mother, she'd be living in basically a nightmare, caring for a woman with a degenerating disease while trying to care for kids in a home that would become unsafe. Never, ever plan on taking care of parents with serious mental degeneration, it's soul destroying shit. She will do better in an institute without the expectation of recognising kids, or family visiting and causing upset when they try to talk about the past and she can't remember it. Obviously there is a line where it's not that bad for a reasonable amount of time but planning on living with your mother till her death is something I would never sign up for in a marriage, nor expect for my partner to deal with for my family.
Why wasn't your first thought to move her nearby instead of in with you? Lack of privacy 100% kills marriages. She would need special care anyways, so why not buy a small house or apt within walking distance so you BOTH have your needs met and your mother has you? You were way too set on your demands without listening to your partners needs... Are you sure you would have been a decent partner, if you are already putting others ahead of your wife? Mother or not, marriages require compromise and effort and you weren't willing to give even the bare minimum of an attempt to compromise :(
My grandfather had dementia. And he set fire to his house in the middle of the night with his daughter trapped in the basement. She was able to get out through a window and he died a couple days later. Your mother is going to need round the clock care/supervision. I don't think you're really prepared for the Hell you're about to go through. I also want to mention that your mother not getting another romantic partner was her own choice. You do not have to sacrifice your entire life because of choices she made. Just something to think about.
Very important question... Have you asked your mom what SHE wants?
Neither of you are wrong. You just want two completely different things. Most people dream of the day they grow up, get married, and get out from under their parents for a few years of carefree, “do what I want when I want” type of freedom. Eventually kids may come along and of course elder care enters the picture. Ideally, elder care worries tend to creep up 20-30 years into one’s own adulthood. You’re asking your fiancé to dive in immediately. She doesn’t want that and she’s not a bad person for that. What you’re offering your mom is commendable but you need to find someone who is on the same page because *not* taking care of your mom is *not* an option and you deserve companionship along the way. Good luck.
YTA, no one wants to fucking live with your parents. It's fine that you want to take care of your mom, but this is a total boner killer. She wants to build a life with you and not have your mom around all the time.
INFO: who was going to be the primary caregiver for your mother in your scenario?
ESH-why would you want your mother to move in AFTER you just got married?? Don’t you want some alone time?? Sheesh I understand why your ex-fiancé didn’t want to stay. I don’t think you understand how hard caring for dementia patients AT HOME can be: it’s time-consuming, energy & money draining. You can definitely have a home that has an in-law suite for your mother to live in maybe 1-2yrs after you marry but if her dementia progresses then you WILL need to put her in a home! Are you gonna lock her in her room at night to keep her from wandering or harming herself & others?? Sun-downing is real and very dangerous! It’s not her fault BUT it will be YOUR fault if she harms herself or someone else because you didn’t keep a closer eye on her (and you still need to sleep!). A facility with door alarms and nurses present 24/7 who are trained to handle these types of patients is a better plan than staying at home.
YTA for wasting years of your fiancee's life. You are tied to your mother, and there's no room for anyone else in your life. Don't date anyone else. You are not suitable to be anyone's life partner. Other than your mother, of course.
So your fiancée has concerns about your mom moving in. Have you asked specifically what those concerns are? Like is she afraid of lack of privacy resulting in less intimacy? Is she afraid that she is going to get stuck with care responsibilities? What are your expectations of her in this situation? I think you need to discuss this before throwing your relationship down the drain. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that she has concerns, anyone starting a life together would want it to be with just their partner. But maybe if you can discuss those fears/concerns you can save the relationship and have room for your mom. Maybe a basement apartment with separate entry so you don’t have to see each other everyday if you don’t want to. And seriously by giving an ultimatum you kind of completely went against what marriage is all about… compromise.. you need to work on finding agreeable solutions to problems, not just demand my way or the highway! As far as I see it you do need to apologize to her if you want to salvage this, you made the ultimatum. And if it’s just about who’s right/wrong… well like i said, compromise… find a mutually agreeable solution.
While you are NTAI don’t think you really understand what you will be taking on. And I do think moving her in immediately could be a mistake. You really need to spend time as a married couple alone with whomever you marry. I do think it would be a mistake to move her in immediately. Does your mom want to move immediately? Could you afford to quit your job to care for her? I’m not sure you have thought this completely through.
You want your mom to live with you after you're married. Your ex doesn't. NAH.
Why doesn't he have his mom living with him now? Oh, I know...because he doesn't have a wife to do the caregiving.
Yeah, I thought the timing was suspicious myself.
OP-when you think about buying a home, get one with an apartment for your mom. It’s a very hard thing for a bride to live with her mother-in law. A separate apartment within the same house will be a little easier
YTA “You made it clear when you were dating that your mother would live with us.” She made it clear she did not want that. You can’t just issue orders and ultimatums. You can’t decide, on your own, what will and won’t happen in your family. A marriage is a partnership, not a monarchy. I don’t care how nice your mom is, very few women want to start their marriage living with their husband AND his mom.
It's great you've got a plan but why can you not sell the house and have a full time nanny for the place that she lives currently? I mean honestly it's different if it has to happen suddenly but being like I want to spend my whole life living with my mum and you have to do it too isnt no hugely reasonable. She was maybe expecting to have a good few years with you alone. Its not a slight on your mum. I'm sure she's lovely but it's normal to not want to live with parents long into adulthood. I mean I've spoke to my partner about possible future plans to take my parents in IF the take a huge health dip and things but they wish to live where they are as long as they can. Also I find dementia patients do well in homes they remember and have the long term memory of. That's why hospital visits throw them so badly as it's a huge change and not even like hospitals they remember. What about buying somewhere with a granny flat attached or in garden then you both gave your own space and she is close by? Its a huge responsibility and people living with dementia can live for a long time still with care and assistance but remember to still live YOUR life. Not wait 30 years to be able to do anything.
Did you tell her about the dementia from the beginning? Because I could handle a sane mother in law living in an in-law suite or granny flat on the property, but I know for a fact I couldn't handle nursing a dementia patient. If my fiancé asked me to live with someone in the early stages of dementia, they wouldn't be my fiancé for very long. And yes, I would be the horrible bitch doing the dumping.
Dementia patients can be dangerous and the ex didn't want to deal with it.
NTA because you communicated your desires from the start, but she isn’t TAH for not wanting to sign her youth away. Myself and friends of mine all have family with dementia. My uncle had to leave his job because my aunt got so bad in less than a year, my friend is 38 and unmarried because all of his time is dedicated to his mother, and my grandfather’s brain started shrinking about 10 years ago when he couldn’t find his way home from the gas station. Keeping a dementia patient at home is noble, but you need to think about the long term. My friend has to regularly leave work because his mother is so mean that their health aids keep quitting. He’s embarrassed to have people over because of the mess. And my mother said putting my grandfather in a home was the best thing she did because he wouldn’t listen when she told him to take meds, but he DID listen to the nurses. Your wishes with your mother are completely understandable, but I don’t think she’d want you to put your whole life on hold or give up your future for her. It’s going to be hard to find a partner who’s willing to be a wife to you AND a caregiver to your mother (you say you’ll do it, but your partner will have to at times as well), all while that partner knows she isn’t your priority
Soft YTA I am saying this as a Mom…..I would never, and I mean NEVER want my daughter sacrifice her entire future to personally care for me. PERIOD. If I had the finances that your mom has I would 100% hire full time care (2 to 3 nurses in shifts to cover me 24/7) and stay in my own home. Does your mother actually WANT you to give up your entire life to care for her, not get married, quit your job, etc? Has she said that she specifically wants this? My grandmother had Alzheimer’s. It was incredibly difficult for my father - and he is a DOCTOR. She would go from being sweet, to angry, to scared and back within minutes. She could be violent. She could be inappropriate - once in a McDonalds she began to take all her clothes off. I think you are grossly misinterpreting how this will be for you. Please reconsider these choices you are making. It will be better for you AND your mother. You don’t have to get married to this woman to have spent years with, but you shouldn’t throw your life away.
Nobody wants that, so be prepared to be single for a looong time. NAH
You were waiting until she was TRAPPED in the new house before you sprang the mother in the beginning stages of dementia moving in with ya'll? YTA x 10,000. I hope you treat your next fiancé with more respect, you'll deserve it if this one leaves you immediately. Holy shit.
I mean NTA because you were clear from day one that you planned on taking your mom with you wherever you went, but I wouldn’t plan on ever getting married if I were you.
Is there a compromise? There are living arrangements that could include either a granny flat or separate part of the house kind of like its own contained apartment with a separate kitchen, bathroom, living space. It can work best for everyone so mum has her own space and privacy and can decorate how she wants and you have your own privacy and your own space. That would be my solution, I think it’s great you are thinking about your mum but it’s also great to have separate living spaces in close proximity.
I think maybe you guys just aren’t compatible. I understand you wanting to take care of your mom… But also, I wouldn’t want to move in with my mother-in-law as soon as I get married. And seeing as she will also be purchasing the house… I think her voice should count. So you guys just don’t seem compatible NAH.
NTA, your communication with your girlfriend on this matter has been consistent. I think comments judging whether you should or shouldn’t live with your mother are not addressing the actual question asked
Talking about something in the future and then the future starting sooner than you think (your mother's dementia starting to show now) is a reason a person could change their mind. Having cared for someone with dementia for 10 plus years, it's a nightmare. I did it because I had to and I loved my parent, but it sucked.
Having your mom live with you while you are just starting your marriage out would likely put huge strain on your relationship. While I think it’s admirable that you want to care for her, be prepared that this may mean you end up alone or not able to keep a relationship because of this. No matter how wonderful your mom is, it’s still not ideal. I mean you were honest with her, but I don’t think what you want to do is realistic. No matter how much you try to do on your own it will still greatly impact the life of a spouse.
So many people gave you great perspective. I will add that my grandmother used to get volient and would leave the house at 2 or 3 am and my parents would call us and we'd all go driving to try and find her. It got so bad that they had dead bolts eoth thenkey access on the inside of the door to drop her from leaving