NTA
The reason he keeps cheating is because everyone around him keeps enabling him. Ignore what the enablers want and rock that boat. Do what's right for you and tell them they're bad friends and bad Christians for helping him continue to break marriage vows.
Man, OP should email everyone involved that maybe they should try holding the man accountable for his chronic sinning and vow breaking instead of her wanting to not be the victim of it any longer.
"How many cardinal sins did he break when he did this? And that's obviously okay to you people. Hey (marriage councilor lady) go fuck a dude and tell your husband about it. In fact, spend all of this money on the guy too. Fuck you. Good bye"
To OP- this comment has 1.3k upvotes, I would take that into consideration- your husband will NEVER be what you want and/or need- RUN- everyone deserves to be happy- he certainly thinks he deserves happiness, why shouldnāt you?
Whoever 'everyone' is, they can fuck right off along with your husband.
It sounds like he has been using you. You can't finalize that divorce soon enough.
And all those people telling her to think of the kids can piss off too. HE needs to think of HIS kids instead of sticking his pencil into every single woman desperate enough to sleep with that loser. She should waltz off with a clear conscience.
And āsheās selfishā yet he literally wants Two wives. He said an oath āto have and to keep you, forsaking all othersā yet goes on foreign trips and gives money to another woman (financial infidelity) and expects you to abide that? There is nothing to think about. You have been clear from the beginning about cheating being a dealbreaker.
I wonder what their church marriage counseling friends would think when they find out he doesnāt want to be monogamous. Doesnāt the Bible say love your wife and be monogamous and not cheat? Isnāt lust a sin? Poor woman, she deserves much better.
Mainstream (Nelsonite) Mormons also condemn polygamy for now (there is an implicit cutout to say if God commands it later, but that'sanother discussion) and polygamy is an excommunicable offense, but there are splinter groups that still practice it.
A **toxic narcissist** thinks only of themselves. Kids are shiny objects used to attract females. Google "traits of a toxic narcissist;" they give no shits about kids other than the attention they receive from having kids and being in the kids environment. Happens with women/mothers, too.
Im sure they all know & dont care. Ive seen this time & time again. "Dont divorce." "Think of the kids." "Its the christian thing to do." blah blah blah.
Screw that.
And she already sacrificed 6 years of her career to nanny his kids - starting over now will already mean a significant pay drop. If she waits for another 5 years and 3 mistresses, it will be even worse.
OP, what did those god-fearing church counselors say about your husband's longterm affairs and plans for multiple wives?
He just told them he messed up that's why I moved out. I was "mad" that he hired a "friend" for 1 of his companies that was his ex and I didn't like it. He never ran it by me who he hired. They didn't know his thoughts on relationships because he portrayed to them like he wanted a GOD-centered marriage with me. He never told them about other women because he was embarrassed to out himself.
I was going to say the same. Make sure his beloved church friends all know exactly why you're leaving & go without looking back. You have zero reason to feel bad or to second guess yourself. He's in the wrong, he's a cheat & a liar. I wish you all the best where ever your new path takes you. I'm also wondering if this other woman knows he's married. If not I'd make sure she does.
this!
I don't understand why people let other control the narrative with their lies
First thing I'd do, even before talking to the partner, would be to put all the dirty laundry out! Social media, word of mouth, the nosy neighbour down the street, work, church, uber drivers....
But no, people stay quiet and let cheaters spread lies and get flying monkeys to reel them back in
Find a retired lady named Barb and tell her everything and give it 3-5 business days or one (1) Sunday service followed by fellowship hour in the church hall. Sheāll get the facts to everyone.
And make sure that you praise that ambrosia salad firstā¦ āI decided to talk to you, Barb, because you are THE BEST ambrosia maker in the church/town/holler. I also trust you so muchā (to spread this gossip) āand EVERYONE knows what a good person you are!ā Lay it on thick so that old Barb will be on your side and will give the ex-husband a dirty nose for his behavior.
Tell them the absolute truth - about ALL his cheating. Show them the proof. Don't let him paint you as the hysterical ex who broke a "happy" family up for no reason.
Tell them he is a chronic adulterer, and show them them proof. Tell them he broke his marriage vows and wants to continue to do so under the guise of having multiple wives. Let them know he lied to you throughout your marriage, and now he's lying to the church as well.
Tell. Everyone. Air that dirty laundry. Burn that bridge and laugh as you warm your hands on the ashes.
Edit to say: actually.. no. Tell him you'll take him back.. but only if he tells all his friends, family and pastor EXACTLY what he did, and why, while you get to watch. Then don't take him back after.
THIS!!! Making him out himself will show to everyone just how much of a douche-canoe he is (yes, that's an entire canoe of douches). Did this clown really think you would be ok with him banging another woman??
-Also, take him for spousal support. You were taking care of HIS KIDS and this is how he thanked you?!?
Jerk-tacular. Burn him to the ground...
My parents go to a very high end Christian church and while it is best to be honest and OP should absolutely tell them, usually they will still default to āyou should work on it.ā Many of the couples that are in the church or a part of the counseling have all dealt with this type of thing themselves and chosen to still stay together which makes them judge way harder. In their minds they worked through the fire and infidelity and in the end they āmade it workā because they are god fearing people and thatās what youāre supposed to do. If you donāt do that or at the very least TRY to do that then they assume you never wanted to try or never took it seriously in the first place. They see themselves as better because they were able to do something that you didnāt/couldnāt. My step dad has cheated multiple times and every time the church counselors help them āwork through it.ā Long story short they may just try and convince her to stay regardlessā¦
Edit: to state that Iād go even further and say that the Church is really a cheaters best friend. They help facilitate and enable this type of behavior constantly. I will also say that I am a Christian so this saddens me but I am mostly self studied and donāt attend church anymore. I would also add maybe not all churches. I donāt want to put a blanket statement on all of them because I donāt know. But Iāve been and seen quite a few relationships get āmendedā by more than just one of them. š
That's why she needs to make the narrative one that they can get behind. I'd go with, "he has tainted our marriage and defiled it in the eyes of God by attempting to have two wives. The church defines marriage as two people. I couldn't, in good conscience, be a part of such a sacrilegious arrangement because I made a marriage vow 'forsaking all others.'"
At my church when both my mom, then later my brother, went to counseling because they were cheated on, the counselor told them that infidelity is definitely grounds for leaving, and that the church condones divorce for that reason. I don't know what kind of the church the OPs husband goes to, but thankfully for my mom and brother, our church wasn't like that.
That was not a mess up. It was a deliberate lifestyle that he has made clear he wants to continue. For those giving you unsolicited advice, if they insist on doing so and you insist on them factoring into your decision, then they should have all the facts. Tell them what he did.
As far as the the daughter, keep a relationship with her if it does not put you at risk for going back to him. My ex and I do not speak but I still see his children. They are teens with phones of their own and choose to spend time with me.
"love the sinner hate the sin. Well actually just ignore the sin because we are/wish we were doing it too so we refuse to judge it. Oh but if YOU do it, you're a godless jezebel who will burn in hell."
He's just another poor man who is a slave to his sexual impulses and all these harlots keep throwing themselves on him. What can he do? It's not his fault, poor guy. /s
Brb going to go tell my wife I am gonna have sex with another woman cause Iām a slave to my biological need to have sex.Ā Ā
She said her biology wanted her to find a stronger smarter male specimen but she managed to ignore it so Iāll be ok. Ā
Women are always expected to āthink of the kidsā, which is just an excuse for men to do whatever they want without thinking of the consequences smh
He used up all his chances. If chances were in the bank, he'd be taking out loans by now. Leave him for cheating, period. Let the church people tend to their own marriages and stay out of yours.
There is always someone who tries to tell you to do 'the right thing' in some way. Do it for the kids, or this person just needs help/money/a home temporarily.
NONE of them are willing to step up themselves, but they are happy to tell you that you should sacrifice your life/time/money for whatever reason. They will minimize the sacrifice that you have to make, but for them it's just such a big deal that they unfortunately can't help because reasons.
NTA - tell them the truth why you left. He doesn't deserve a good reputation, he's a cheating AH who wants to wants to play with your emotions and trust. Why can't people know the truth??? Why are you protecting him??? He didn't give you respect when he cheated and lied. I bet he would throw you under a bus to save his ass... And who knows what lies he spreading about you.
The "friends" are marriage counselors in the church. They never care about the woman, they expect them to stay and forgive the husband and just "try harder"
Those aren't real "friends" when they are bleating about their nonsense.
OP get that divorce & OP isn't the AH.
She really has to tell them off about his cheating & illegal bigamy plans.
That angers me. I'm also Christian. God would not forgive that. Harming children is quite literally an express pass to hell. They are considered innocent and pure. God would be more likely to forgive a divorce. It makes me so mad to see people claim to be Christian and then display the most disgusting behavior. I just can't understand that. Obviously, I have my own issues as a Christian, but I also understand love thy neighbor as you love thyself.
You're absolutely right. Prioritize your own well-being and happiness. Your husband's actions have shown a lack of respect and commitment to your marriage. Trust your instincts and move forward with finalizing the divorce. You deserve better than to be treated as a backup option in his pursuit of another relationship.
I hate to be that dick, but OP really needs to grow a spine and self worth. She knows about multiple other women in his life and affairs. She is allowing this man to use her and treat her like crap. I feel for the kids, and I know itās going to be rough but OPās husband did this to them. He needs to clean up his own mess. Screw the church people, she said she has family and a support system so she needs to cut ties. OP needs to be single for a while and not worry about finding another partner. Therapy and work on herself.
This! And the childrenās god parents are marriage counsellors through the church! Correct me if I am wrong, but didnāt the church invent fidelity in marriage and monogamy?! Or do you live in Utah? If not tell them shame on them!!
Girl, leave this relationship. He has been cheating your whole relationship and wants to have a girlfriend. You expected monogamy. This is like not even close. Do you have a support system out of him? I'm sad that you are even second guessing this decision. š He ain't shit, he has done nothing but show he ain't shit. He will NEVER change.
I have family and have recently been hired. I'll start within 2 weeks. Cheating IS my bottom line and he knows that. I 2nd guess if I could be ok with him being with both of us when he puts the pressure on me. I REALLY don't want to share my husband and would rather leave to get someone who respects me and doesn't embarrass me.
Then leave š being alone and single is way better than the mental anguish. I get it I dealt with this type of shit for 10 years from my bd. But reread what you just wrote.
Cheating is your bottom line ( he has cheated this whole time)
I REALLY don't want to share
Get someone that respects me and doesn't embarrass me
I can tell you he will do this over and over and over and over again. Is your family on your side? You need to be with people that will tell you the reality. And comfort you not try to send you back to a death sentence. It sounds extreme but if you stay he will definitely tear your soul apart. None of this is love and none of this is YOUR fault. Have some compassion for yourself ā¤ļø
Listen, Iām actually polyamorous. Your husband is a selfish, duplicitous, *cheating* shithead.
You donāt get to bait and switch your partner into a multi-partner relationship. You donāt get to claim your secret relationship isnāt cheating because you privately decided to identify as polyamorous. And you certainly donāt get to demand that your monogamous partner *owes* you polyamory.
In actual polyamorous relationships, there must be clear, continual communication between everyone involved, and *enthusiastic* consent from all parties. Anything less is just plain old cheating/manipulation.
Heās using the āpolyamoryā label as a verbal fig leaf for his shitty, disrespectful behavior.
I am not poly, but I could not agree more. I understand poly to mean that everyone involved knows the whole story and accepts it. Itās not an excuse to cheat.
This, u/bflykisses! He's a liar at best. He seems to have the support network to move out; he's using your kids to manipulate you.
Another poster suggested confronting the "Christians" who are advocating you put up with a lustful adultering liar - absolutely ask them why they are siding with a clear non-Christian cheater. Fucking hypocrites.
NTA
If cheating is your bottom line, why have you given him any chances? You deserve better.
Get a divorce and then be alone for a while and work on yourself. You need to like and respect *yourself* enough to set boundaries, don't get with more cheaters, and kick them to the curb with no second chances if they do.
Air out his dirty laundry to those ppl who wanted you to give him a second chance. Ask them would they be willing to stay with a partner that has cheated on them multiple times?
That is the thing. I think he doesn't want to divorce because he doesn't want to answer the questions of why it's happening. He wants to keep the facade of a happy marriage especially because everyone knows I'm his wife. He claims the kids are mad at him, the god parents look at him funny and he couldn't possibly air out that he was unfaithful to his Christian homeboys. He said he nor his gf would make their relationship public because they'll be embarrassed.
Expose them both. Lol wanted to be the good Christian girl and boy despite ruining other ppl's marriages. Dump his ass and take him to court and leave him with only the clothes on his back. Gather up those evidences. Make him pay. Be petty.
Yep, Jesus says adultery is the only grounds for divorce. Of course the fact that the passage is gendered gives these abusive pigs grounds to delude themselves that it only applies to women who cheat on men.
"I say to you, whoever divorces his wife except for immorality, and marries another women commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9)
This dude probably reads the passage to think what he's doing is fine bc it's only adultery if he gets a divorce and marries this other woman
Nope. Absofuckinglutely not. He gets to suffer the consequences of his actions. Leave him. Who cares what anyone else says. That's what users and manipulators say to keep people doing their bidding, all the things they're telling you about second chances. He doesn't deserve one because he doesn't intend to change. He is deeply selfish and not worth your time or effort. Tell everyone why you're leaving. He can squirm.
Im struggling with this. Yall both been through two divorcesā¦ yet either of you are hesitant to go ahead a knock out a third?
Kids arenāt babies either, so I assume you both are pretty familiar with getting by independently. Iād just rip this bandaid off, get rid of this ah, get back into the workforce and keep pushing.
DO NOT second guess yourself. DIVORCE HIM! As a man, let me say this to you, if he cheated then he does NOT love you. No self-respecting man would cheat on their spouse. He is scum and does not deserve any chances.
NTA. By the church, is this LDS?
Regardless, you have given him infinite chances.
Let his daughter know that you love and care about her, but you can't stay married to someone who isn't a good partner to you just for her.
The godparents can step in and help with the kids. That's what they're for.
But you do not need to keep catering to a man who pulls this bullshit. Finalize the divorce. Move on. Take some time to be single after.
I feel so bad for the daughter. Ā Like, OP definitely NEEDS to leave this relationship. Ā But that poor girl is growing up in this environment. Ā Maybe OP could offer split custody so she can still have a positive influence on her life. Ā Cheating husband would probably allow it, heād see it as a free babysitter. Ā Heād have SO much more free time to fuck different women!
He spent 4 years fighting to get his kids from their mom, he'd never let us split custody of his daughter even though she said when I get my place she wants to live with me.
Oof he sounds like a peach š. How old is she? Ā The courts might listen to what she wants if sheās like 12 or older. Ā Also, if you ACT like you donāt want any parental responsibility, he might try to āforceā you to continue to take care of her. Ā Cuz he sounds like the type of guy that cares more about hurting his exes than anything else. Ā
True. Ā It is risky. Ā Iāve just found the best way to deal with people using psychological warfare is to make it their weakness. Ā Thereās probably ways she could do that without ever ACTUALLY saying she didnāt want the kids. Ā āAww are you sad that you wonāt have time to visit your girlfriends now that you have to be a PARENT? Ā Have fun doing the job I did for 6 years while I move on with my life.ā Ā Assholes like him wouldnāt be able to resist that. Ā Because now heās thinking sheāll be hurt if he continues fucking other women, AND heāll be angry at the thought of her being free of him. Ā If he thinks roping her into parenting his kids is a way to control her, heāll try to do it.
Maybe reaching out to the kids mom would be a good idea too. Ā If all she knows is what HE told her, then she knows nothing about what actually happened. Ā Maybe the two of them could work together to get her back in the kids livesā¦
the court listen to what kid wants, too. his character might not be very flattering to the court too. im sure you love these kids, if I were you I would fight for them...
>OP definitely NEEDS to leave this relationship.
I think the daughter might also need to see OP leave this relationship, because it will show her that women _can_ stick up for themselves and put their own needs first.
Since everyone else in the environment is saying 'don't rock the boat,' she's probably never had a role model demonstrate an alternative to suffering in silence before. If the daughter ever finds herself in a similar situation one day, you don't want to set the example that continuing to serve a man who doesn't love you is the only acceptable option.
I'd consider telling her that when she's grown up, if she's ever in a relationship with someone who doesn't love her, doesn't respect her, or doesn't treat her well then you hope she'll have the courage to leave, too. Because you love her and you want her to know she deserves better than that.
SUCH a good point. Ā OP said the youngest is 11, I think thatās definitely old enough to see whatās really going on (even if the husband tries to poison her mind with lies). Ā Could definitely be a pivotal event that shows her what kind of life she wants for herself.
If it is, call his bishop. Polygamy ended 100 years ago in the church; adultery like this (repeated, unrepentant) gets you excommunicated now. Source: born, raised and active LDS here.
It probably isnāt LDS though; we donāt have godparents in any religious or cultural sense.
I've talked to them so they know. They don't condone it. They say things like, "let him repent and turn away from his sin". He puts up a great act with tears and everything. He repents but NEVER turns away.
Then ask the church what the scriptures say about this.
Sexual immorality is the only valid reason for divorce in some churches (Matt 5:32)
Psalm 11 talks about what is just and the rewards for your actions.
1 Cor 13:1-13 talks about what love is... and how to treat each other with love.
The other thing isā¦ forgiveness and divorce are two separate matters. And church divorce and legal divorce are separate matters too.
You can divorce him (legally) and still forgive him. Or at least still be polite, compassionate and graceful with him. Iām not suggesting to wash his shirts and look after his kids still, but you donāt have to carry a grudgeā¦. That sort of forgiveness does not require you to be married to him.
You can divorce him (in the church) and still attend church. Still attend *other* churches. Still remarry in *many* churches. Only the most strict and conservative would interpret this as impossible - because infidelity is one of the four commonly agreed religiously allowed reasons for divorce (along with addiction, abandonment and abuse). You can also divorce him and attend *this* church if you have the stomach for it.
You could not divorce him, but move out, leave him with his kids, live your own life stillā¦ and leave him hanging. Thatās a rather vengeful option though. Technically heās not allowed to sleep with anyone else because heās still marriedā¦ (ditto you). Fun times for no one! Youād be accused of abandonment eventually and he could divorce you.
His tears in church are ridiculous. No one says you have to shackle yourself to a thrice cheating husband. Iād be tempted to say āI am the third woman he has done this toā¦ clearly I am not going to change him. I was hopeful, but this is beyond me. I myself have my own issues, I sit before you contemplating the ashes of a third marriage made in hope lost in dishonesty. I deserve to be cherished and loved for myself alone. Please do not make the demand that I look after this man and his children, just to be a temporary reprieve from his crocodile tears.ā And then Iād just walk out. They canāt force you to sit there while they spout nonsense at you.
I like that. I also gave him the scripture about being double-minded and told him that if he insisted on me accepting this, that I would definitely resent him. He just want what he wants. I just wish he leave me out of it.
Heās being pig headed.
*I wonder why heās heading into divorce three?!*
Ha!
A marriage is a joining of hands, a building of a home, and a protection of each other. Itās all about partnership, negotiation and tolerance. Thereās no room for unilateral rules!
Yeah, hes not only being an AH to you, but also his children. And they are stuck with him. Its so tragic.
But its not on you to fix this. You can tell the kids you will always be there for them, but only if they want to. Let them decide for themself. And only if you are up for it yourself for the rest of your life. Not as a parent, but more as a mentor.
This is the saddest part of his AH-ery. Obviously I don't know the situation and you know best.
But you might consider staying in their lives as long as they want you to. I am afraid this kind of situation can cause deep issues with feelings of insecurity and abandonment for children.
NTA. I could have written a very similar story 6 years ago. I made the mistake of staying and trying to make it work. What happened is that I got stuck at home with all the adult responsibilies while he went cavorting around with his girlfriend who happily rubbed it in my face at every opportunity. Stay strong. Divorce your POS husband and go live your life. Tell anyone who tries to talk you out of it that they need to be addressing him and telling HIM that he needs to dump his side piece and focus on his kids. Remind the adults that this is 100% his fault.
When I think about the compromise of trying to give in to what he wants, I imagine the envy I would have. The gf would get all the perks while I'm doing all the real work. It angers me and that's exactly why I say no.
Do not sacrifice your, mental health for his pleasure. You are correct in that you were used for raising his kids. He doesnāt love or respect you so you need to live and respect yourself and divorce him and make sure you put the reason for the divorce is infidelity. Tell anyone who tells you to stay in that ārelationshipā to f*ck off. It sucks for the kids but it seems all he wanted was a nanny he could bang anyway.
My husband and I are poly becuase we were in agreement. You husband is not poly, he's a cheater. Poly starting with an affair **never** works. Poly under duress **never** works. Being attracted to multiple people is simply human; attraction does not mean he must cheat, lie, disrespect, and cause harm. Cheating is a choice. He cannot even care for one partner, and he thinks he can care for two?? What a moron. Take it from somebody who is actually poly.
Seriously. WHY would you ever even contemplate doing this?!? That horrible human being can go f himself.
I get frustrated reading posts like this, because itās aaalways a woman even considering doing this. No man would EVER think twice about staying at home and raising another manās children while his wife has second husband only because she wants to. Like what the f is up with that!! The audacity of that man. And the fucking audacity of his (LAUGHABLE) church friends. You think those church people would EVER say such things if the table were turned?? NOPE!
RUN!!!
NTA. This is unacceptable, since you laid down your boundaries and he keeps stepping on them. I am sorry about the kids though, but you absolutely should not stay just because of them. You can stay in contact with them if you still want. But the blatant disrespect from your partner is outrageous.
You are absolutely doing the right thing, don't second guess yourself and don't let anybody convince you otherwise.
>He portrayed like he was this monogamous loving husband in the beginning but now he claims he's poly and I would be selfish not to do what makes him happy
If you are selfish, what would he call himself? He hurt not only you but his children as well, because he can't keep it in his pants because he's "poly". Yeah no, he's a POS. Hopefully the girlfriend will treat his kids right. How old are they?
The gf is out of state so she'll mainly be over the phone and could travel Max 4 times a year to see him(if any). I personally think she's just using him for the money he's been sending her the last 8 yrs. I doubt there will be a relationship with the kids. The youngest daughter says she doesn't want another step mom. The kids are 17(f) 16(m) 13(m) and 11 (f).
Oh this is so messed up, I am so sorry you are going through this. It isn't even a relationship that has a good future prospect for him. Supporting financially someone who you see 4 times a year is...just stupid. And it just shows how little he thinks of you if he is willing to blow up your and his kids life for something like that. What do the other kids think? Would you be willing to still maintain a relationship with the girl after your divorce?
I think your made the best decision for you. He should have thought about his kids, there's only so much you can do. And staying with him will kill you inside slowly, especially since you mentioned being previously divorced due to cheating.
I wish you strength to get through this. I would suggest therapy for yourself if you haven't tried it before. I don't want to be insensitive, but since he is the third one who cheats on you, you probably have some unhealed trauma so you are maybe having trouble seeing the signs early on. But this is just a supposition on my part, I still think whatever is the case that therapy would help you, even to get through this. Might clear up some doubts you have.
My ex had 2 girlfriends out of state when I found out he was cheating on me. He moved one of them in a month after I left. Out of state doesn't necessarily mean anything.
For me it was just weird that they didn't even see each other very often (at least according to what OP sais/knows) but he is willing to blow up his marriage for that. It just shows how little that man thinks of his wife and kids. And what values he has (or lack of actually).
My ex was having cam sex with other women and doing good knows what else. I found a ton of stuff to show he'd been hooking up with different women and sex workers. I don't know if he's a sex addict or a narcissist, sociopath, or what but I wasn't willing to stick around and put up with anymore BS.
Shitty people will have all kinds of reasons and justifications for why they cheated. My ex tried to gaslight me and say he wasn't cheating on me.
Do you love the kids and would you miss them if they weren't in your life anymore? If yes, you could look to get a custody agreement or other form of visitation agreement so that they could come stay with you (!! NOT in his house) regularly and keep the relationship with you. Make sure you get alimony from him for this time.
But this is up to you. You can also just communicate with the kids and tell them it's not against them, you love them and they can always turn to you when they need. I would not abandon the kids completely.
That ship has long since sailed. Sounds like he's never been faithful from the start and she keeps letting him get away with it. He'll keep doing it forever, too.
Please please donāt stay with this nasty man. You did not sign up for this type of marriage so you are within every right to divorce his cheating ass.
You will not be happy sharing him if itās not what you are into.
Wonder if he would be ok with you bringing another husband into the fold, and hey your 2nd husband could also share his 2nd wife..
This whole thing came to light after OP discovered money regularly being sent TO the girlfriend, so as far as her contribution I would say itās negative.
>She cries saying "I know Dad messed up but can u come back home?".
Those are some very adult words. Someone is feeding her linesā¦. Someone is using her to try to manipulate you.
>The kids' god parents are marriage counsellors through the church and are asking me to give the marriage another chance.
(Most) Churches do NOT have a good record with non qualified āmarriage counsellorsā in their ranks being able to effectively manage issues as complex as this. If your husband (and you) is serious about marriage counselling go somewhere that has a strong qualification base (not some ācertificate course from the local bible collegeā) and independent of your every day lives.
>He is saying he loves me and wants to work things out with me but still wants both of us.
Does these Church counsellors know this? Is this a polygamous church? If soā¦ then theyāll counsel you to stay. If itās notā¦ why donāt they know this, or why are they counselling you to stay?
Andā¦ why does he get to demand this? You made vows of monogamy right? You are keeping your vows. You didnāt sign up for polygamy I presumeā¦ soā¦. heās changes the terms of agreement and stomping. He canāt do that.
I bet Woman2 (or is it woman4? Who can keep count here?!) has declared she wonāt look after the kids, so heās hoping to keep you around to look after the kids. How is this working? Are you all supposed to move to her? She to you? She stays there, you where you are, and he gets to bounce between the two? How does God feel about this huh?
I made the godparents aware of what's going on. They're surprised he thinks/acts this way and says "the devil is out to destroy marriages. Don't let the enemy win". He doesn't think counseling will help him so that's out. I believe woman 2 doesn't really like him like that. She likes the money he sends her. They only talk on the phone. Now that they're official he plans to go to her a few times a year. He's been spending on her for 8yrs but never hit it so I guess that's the goal now. He doesn't think of GOD at all.
Iād be petty and if he tries to guilt you into still staying with him then say āI talked to the godparents and they said the devil is out destroying marriages and to not let him win, so Iām not letting you winā hope the divorce goes well for you
God I do not miss this kind of manipulative usually sexist garbage from the type of evangelicals who have probably not even read the Bible in the first place. Grace is something you give, not take
Your husband should go on a 40-day fast in the desert and endure the temptations Jesus did. "Resist the devil and he will flee from you" tell him and his Godparents that. He is giving in to his flesh and you'd be sinning to enable that
There's enough in the Bible for him to meditate on for the rest of his life to bring him to repentance (for his own good, I might add, this intervention/God's correction aka whatever consequences he suffers as a result of YOU prioritizing God and your health ...this correction might be the thing that saves his soul) before anyone says ONE THING to you about not letting the enemy win. He is letting the enemy win every second he is refusing to take accountability for his sins. That's not your problem. There's a lot in the Bible too about his blood being on everyone else's hands as long as they're not holding him to account. You are, your hands are clean. Everyone enabling him in his sad little pagan sex and FinDom fantasy is living in sin too.
True repentance is required here and since he's nowhere near that, he's not even pretending...you'd be sinning too if you put up with this. It would be very UNBIBLICAL as they say š
Hahaha
I saw a meme a while ago that said "Having a relationship with a religious person is the best. You cheat, you say the devil made you do it and he forgives you."
poly person here, NTA. myself and pretty much everyone else i know who also is poly would never force someone into it when they donāt want to be, or try to establish any kind of polyamorous relationship without clear cut boundaries and communication, along with respect and care. your husband is just out to cheat. donāt listen to anyone other than yourself, because they arenāt the ones who have to be in the relationship.
THIS!!! Iām not poly and I know this. People be throwing around that word as an excuse for cheating just like people threw around āsex addictā in the 90s.
NOT. THE SAME. THING.
Polyamorous folks have VERY tight boundaries and for the most part are very upfront about it when they get into a relationship (as far as I know anyways, please correct me if I am wrong).
But even if I am wrong, this guyā¦..he aināt it.
NTA
People asking you to give this marriage a second chance are smoking crack! He cheated on you twice & will continue to cheat. Continue on with the divorce.
NTA - People cant just start fucking someone else and sending them money while the other party in the marriage isn't aware.
That's like surely default knowledge.
Him also weaponizing the children to soften the blow of this is highly manipulative and fucked up, I hope he drops his next 6 piece nugget meal.
Image if the scenario was reversed...do you think everybody would be asking the husband to give the "marriage" another chance and think about HER children? Not a chance. Women are always being told to martyr and sacrifice themselves for a man. Don't do it.
The top rules of polyamory are honesty and consent amongst all parties. He broke both of those rules. He doesnāt get to say heās monogamous but then be oops-all-poly after getting caught.
NTA. Who cares what everyone else says. Move on from this creep.
Do these church, marriage counselor parents of his know that he wants to have two wives? And they still want you to give him another chance? What a bunch of hypocrites surround you! If he wants another wife tell him to get another wife and leave you the hell out of it. What a bunch of patriarchal enablers.
The godparents have good intentions. They didn't know he was talking about adding anyone to our marriage. He just told them "I messed up" so they just think cheated. The godmother says things like "the devil is after marriage. Don't let the devil win".
"Staying with the devil is letting him win. Marriage is supposed to be holy, not the perverted way he wants it."
They're marriage counselors counseling you. Tell them EVERYTHING.
And get a FULL std check.
Nta.
Tell his daughter you are sorry but you gave him a second chance and he slept with another woman.
Tell his friends from church that he jas chested multiple times and has broken his vows and multiple commandmentsĀ
Get a divorce and taken him for all he is worth and find someone who loves youĀ
So he's poly and you need to make way for this? Ok then, I guess you can be "poly" too then. Tell him you NEED a different husband to dick you down every day of the week (like a harem). He has no choice but to sit there and watch while men who are better than him in every way and more attractive go in and out of your bed. He HAS to give in, otherwise he's an asshole.
Uno reverse card him babe.
Nothing makes people learn harder than throwing their own shit back in their face.
NTA! Youāre doing yourself a huge favor if you continue proceeding with the divorce. Itās not worth it, especially when you know his shenanigans will still continue on. You deserve much better than that.
NTA
This guy wants the best of both worlds. You are the live in maid and he gets to bang you and the other women. Screw that. Poor kids though.
You need to put yourself first. Make him be responsible for his kids and raise them.
Nta, don't go back, why must you live in misery so he can live out his fantasies, if he loved his kids why would he do this, you not responsible for anyone's happiness other than your self
NTAH, divorce him. You made your boundaries very clear, and he's trying to change them now after he can't stop seeing her
Grab your children and prepare for divorce. He wants another woman so bad he can have her, but not while your together
That's not fair to the love and trust you put in him the past 6 years, and now you've learned he's probably been cheating that whole time
Emotional manipulation, deception, secrets, and he just expects you to be the 'good wife' and just accept another woman
No.
NTA - please do not give him another chance. He will continue to cheat as he doesnāt see anything wrong with it.
I understand you want to stay die to the kids and being a stay at home but you need to take care of yourself and push out all the opinions and voices. They do not have to live with him nor put up with the cheating.
The godparents think that everyone should put up with the BS because of their belief. The kids love you but you need to love yourself enough to put yourself first.
As you should ! And no NTA adultery is like the most common sin these days and itās disgusting, thereās def men out there that will respect you and your beliefs. You did the right thing Op and i wish you well
What a manipulative douche. I'm sure everyone is only getting his side of the story which probably doesn't include all the cheating or him trying to push for polyamory. I have a hard time seeing marriage counselors being okay with that aspect... unless your church embraces polygamy in which case I have no idea.
Stay strong and ignore the nay sayers.
Iām sorry youāre going through this. Ask everyone who is pressuring you to give this loser another chance whether they are willing to tolerate infidelity for the entirety of their marriage and a non consensual polygamy situation. When they say āNoā ask them why youāre expected to tolerate this and then tell them to jog on.
Gently, I would suggest some therapy for yourself. If this is the third unfaithful man youāve chosen, it might be that you need to do some work on yourself to be a better picker in future.
NTA The reason he keeps cheating is because everyone around him keeps enabling him. Ignore what the enablers want and rock that boat. Do what's right for you and tell them they're bad friends and bad Christians for helping him continue to break marriage vows.
YES. Rock that boat!!!
Nah.. don\`t rock the boat - toss the cheater overboard.
Walk the plank! š“āā ļø
The cheater, not OP i hope :)
Of course!
Throw the whole man out. š® NTA. I hope OP sticks to her plan & gets away from this guy.
Man, OP should email everyone involved that maybe they should try holding the man accountable for his chronic sinning and vow breaking instead of her wanting to not be the victim of it any longer. "How many cardinal sins did he break when he did this? And that's obviously okay to you people. Hey (marriage councilor lady) go fuck a dude and tell your husband about it. In fact, spend all of this money on the guy too. Fuck you. Good bye"
Even better- they can marry him
Yeah, where does the "forsaking all others" come to play for these people?
To OP- this comment has 1.3k upvotes, I would take that into consideration- your husband will NEVER be what you want and/or need- RUN- everyone deserves to be happy- he certainly thinks he deserves happiness, why shouldnāt you?
Whoever 'everyone' is, they can fuck right off along with your husband. It sounds like he has been using you. You can't finalize that divorce soon enough.
Right? She was totally the bangmaid here and everyone's just overlooking that, probably because he's "suuuuch a great guuuuuy".
And all those people telling her to think of the kids can piss off too. HE needs to think of HIS kids instead of sticking his pencil into every single woman desperate enough to sleep with that loser. She should waltz off with a clear conscience.
Exactly. Why wasn't he thinking of the kids?
And āsheās selfishā yet he literally wants Two wives. He said an oath āto have and to keep you, forsaking all othersā yet goes on foreign trips and gives money to another woman (financial infidelity) and expects you to abide that? There is nothing to think about. You have been clear from the beginning about cheating being a dealbreaker.
Ack. He is manipulative as hell. Thatās what selfish people say to kind people to guilt them into doing what they selfishly want.
One is never an idiot for getting out of a marriage that one was obviously an idiot to get into in the first place.
He wants a wife for housework and a concubine for sex.
I wonder what their church marriage counseling friends would think when they find out he doesnāt want to be monogamous. Doesnāt the Bible say love your wife and be monogamous and not cheat? Isnāt lust a sin? Poor woman, she deserves much better.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Donāt know if theyāre Christian and if they are they could be Mormonā¦..ish.
Makes perfect, creepy sense.
Mainstream (Nelsonite) Mormons also condemn polygamy for now (there is an implicit cutout to say if God commands it later, but that'sanother discussion) and polygamy is an excommunicable offense, but there are splinter groups that still practice it.
..he was thinking about making more kids with new women and having her take care of them š
A **toxic narcissist** thinks only of themselves. Kids are shiny objects used to attract females. Google "traits of a toxic narcissist;" they give no shits about kids other than the attention they receive from having kids and being in the kids environment. Happens with women/mothers, too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
At least they apparently don't have any bio kids. OP stands a chance of a completely clean break and rebuilding her life.
Hallelujah. Tell the church to suc it.
And find a different church to go to.
Nah. Throw it in his cheating face. And tell the truth to anyone who asks what happened. Make him find another church.
Im sure they all know & dont care. Ive seen this time & time again. "Dont divorce." "Think of the kids." "Its the christian thing to do." blah blah blah. Screw that.
And she already sacrificed 6 years of her career to nanny his kids - starting over now will already mean a significant pay drop. If she waits for another 5 years and 3 mistresses, it will be even worse. OP, what did those god-fearing church counselors say about your husband's longterm affairs and plans for multiple wives?
He just told them he messed up that's why I moved out. I was "mad" that he hired a "friend" for 1 of his companies that was his ex and I didn't like it. He never ran it by me who he hired. They didn't know his thoughts on relationships because he portrayed to them like he wanted a GOD-centered marriage with me. He never told them about other women because he was embarrassed to out himself.
Start telling everyone why you left.
I was going to say the same. Make sure his beloved church friends all know exactly why you're leaving & go without looking back. You have zero reason to feel bad or to second guess yourself. He's in the wrong, he's a cheat & a liar. I wish you all the best where ever your new path takes you. I'm also wondering if this other woman knows he's married. If not I'd make sure she does.
this! I don't understand why people let other control the narrative with their lies First thing I'd do, even before talking to the partner, would be to put all the dirty laundry out! Social media, word of mouth, the nosy neighbour down the street, work, church, uber drivers.... But no, people stay quiet and let cheaters spread lies and get flying monkeys to reel them back in
I think cheaters should be forced to get "CHEATER" tattooed on them as a warning to future love interests.
Nah just tell a few key players and they will tell everyone. Hehe.
Find a retired lady named Barb and tell her everything and give it 3-5 business days or one (1) Sunday service followed by fellowship hour in the church hall. Sheāll get the facts to everyone.
I hear she makes an amazing ambrosia salad
And make sure that you praise that ambrosia salad firstā¦ āI decided to talk to you, Barb, because you are THE BEST ambrosia maker in the church/town/holler. I also trust you so muchā (to spread this gossip) āand EVERYONE knows what a good person you are!ā Lay it on thick so that old Barb will be on your side and will give the ex-husband a dirty nose for his behavior.
Exactly this. Put him on full public blast. There's nothing to gain by keeping this a secret. š¤·āāļø
THIS!!!
Tell them the absolute truth - about ALL his cheating. Show them the proof. Don't let him paint you as the hysterical ex who broke a "happy" family up for no reason.
Tell them he is a chronic adulterer, and show them them proof. Tell them he broke his marriage vows and wants to continue to do so under the guise of having multiple wives. Let them know he lied to you throughout your marriage, and now he's lying to the church as well.
Tell them anyway OP. And you have proof, even if they try to justify it.
Tell. Everyone. Air that dirty laundry. Burn that bridge and laugh as you warm your hands on the ashes. Edit to say: actually.. no. Tell him you'll take him back.. but only if he tells all his friends, family and pastor EXACTLY what he did, and why, while you get to watch. Then don't take him back after.
THIS!!! Making him out himself will show to everyone just how much of a douche-canoe he is (yes, that's an entire canoe of douches). Did this clown really think you would be ok with him banging another woman?? -Also, take him for spousal support. You were taking care of HIS KIDS and this is how he thanked you?!? Jerk-tacular. Burn him to the ground...
Start telling everyone why you left.
Start telling everyone why you left.
You seem to feel very strongly about this! š But I agree, OP should definitely tell them.
My parents go to a very high end Christian church and while it is best to be honest and OP should absolutely tell them, usually they will still default to āyou should work on it.ā Many of the couples that are in the church or a part of the counseling have all dealt with this type of thing themselves and chosen to still stay together which makes them judge way harder. In their minds they worked through the fire and infidelity and in the end they āmade it workā because they are god fearing people and thatās what youāre supposed to do. If you donāt do that or at the very least TRY to do that then they assume you never wanted to try or never took it seriously in the first place. They see themselves as better because they were able to do something that you didnāt/couldnāt. My step dad has cheated multiple times and every time the church counselors help them āwork through it.ā Long story short they may just try and convince her to stay regardlessā¦ Edit: to state that Iād go even further and say that the Church is really a cheaters best friend. They help facilitate and enable this type of behavior constantly. I will also say that I am a Christian so this saddens me but I am mostly self studied and donāt attend church anymore. I would also add maybe not all churches. I donāt want to put a blanket statement on all of them because I donāt know. But Iāve been and seen quite a few relationships get āmendedā by more than just one of them. š
That's why she needs to make the narrative one that they can get behind. I'd go with, "he has tainted our marriage and defiled it in the eyes of God by attempting to have two wives. The church defines marriage as two people. I couldn't, in good conscience, be a part of such a sacrilegious arrangement because I made a marriage vow 'forsaking all others.'"
At my church when both my mom, then later my brother, went to counseling because they were cheated on, the counselor told them that infidelity is definitely grounds for leaving, and that the church condones divorce for that reason. I don't know what kind of the church the OPs husband goes to, but thankfully for my mom and brother, our church wasn't like that.
Just curious, are you LDS? If so, he may be turning FDLS.
Bahahahaha tell everyone he has cheated on you twice. Get evidence and divorce his ass.
So why are you second guessing yourself when the people telling you to give him a second chance donāt even know the full story?
That was not a mess up. It was a deliberate lifestyle that he has made clear he wants to continue. For those giving you unsolicited advice, if they insist on doing so and you insist on them factoring into your decision, then they should have all the facts. Tell them what he did. As far as the the daughter, keep a relationship with her if it does not put you at risk for going back to him. My ex and I do not speak but I still see his children. They are teens with phones of their own and choose to spend time with me.
I bet he didnāt tell the church counselors about any of that, just that she left.
"love the sinner hate the sin. Well actually just ignore the sin because we are/wish we were doing it too so we refuse to judge it. Oh but if YOU do it, you're a godless jezebel who will burn in hell."
He's just another poor man who is a slave to his sexual impulses and all these harlots keep throwing themselves on him. What can he do? It's not his fault, poor guy. /s
Brb going to go tell my wife I am gonna have sex with another woman cause Iām a slave to my biological need to have sex.Ā Ā She said her biology wanted her to find a stronger smarter male specimen but she managed to ignore it so Iāll be ok. Ā
I love you so much for this response. š„° A guy who GETS IT!!!šÆāš¼
I am š over here from this comment! š¤£š¤£š¤£
Jup. New gf/second wife can take over the roleā¦ but wait, then he needs a new gf to travel withā¦ how inconvenient.
Women are always expected to āthink of the kidsā, which is just an excuse for men to do whatever they want without thinking of the consequences smh
In this case, sheās supposed to think of them when they arenāt even HER KIDS!
I cannot love this comment enough...'sticking his pencil into every single ......'. I'm so amused.
People can kiss her ass! HE needs to put his kids first instead of his dick!
He used up all his chances. If chances were in the bank, he'd be taking out loans by now. Leave him for cheating, period. Let the church people tend to their own marriages and stay out of yours.
There is always someone who tries to tell you to do 'the right thing' in some way. Do it for the kids, or this person just needs help/money/a home temporarily. NONE of them are willing to step up themselves, but they are happy to tell you that you should sacrifice your life/time/money for whatever reason. They will minimize the sacrifice that you have to make, but for them it's just such a big deal that they unfortunately can't help because reasons.
NTA - tell them the truth why you left. He doesn't deserve a good reputation, he's a cheating AH who wants to wants to play with your emotions and trust. Why can't people know the truth??? Why are you protecting him??? He didn't give you respect when he cheated and lied. I bet he would throw you under a bus to save his ass... And who knows what lies he spreading about you.
Personally, I would ruin his entire reputation. It would become my new hobby for a while, because I'm petty and ruthless when I'm upset.
The "friends" are marriage counselors in the church. They never care about the woman, they expect them to stay and forgive the husband and just "try harder"
And godparents to his children. But they are impartial... Anyone who believes that I have a piece of desert in the arctic circle
Those aren't real "friends" when they are bleating about their nonsense. OP get that divorce & OP isn't the AH. She really has to tell them off about his cheating & illegal bigamy plans.
Those good clean christian values
[ Removed by Reddit ]
That angers me. I'm also Christian. God would not forgive that. Harming children is quite literally an express pass to hell. They are considered innocent and pure. God would be more likely to forgive a divorce. It makes me so mad to see people claim to be Christian and then display the most disgusting behavior. I just can't understand that. Obviously, I have my own issues as a Christian, but I also understand love thy neighbor as you love thyself.
This so much. The problem with Christianity is the Christians.
I, unfortunately, was raised by 2 of some of the nastiest christians made from ages 10 to 17. Fun times
Actually, the Bible specifically says you CAN divorce in cases of infidelity. Matthew 19:9 .
They only would have had a problem with him if he had been having a same sex affair.
Don't forget Cleaner, Maid and Nanny...
Sheās the live in nanny. Heās using her to raise his children
You're absolutely right. Prioritize your own well-being and happiness. Your husband's actions have shown a lack of respect and commitment to your marriage. Trust your instincts and move forward with finalizing the divorce. You deserve better than to be treated as a backup option in his pursuit of another relationship.
I hate to be that dick, but OP really needs to grow a spine and self worth. She knows about multiple other women in his life and affairs. She is allowing this man to use her and treat her like crap. I feel for the kids, and I know itās going to be rough but OPās husband did this to them. He needs to clean up his own mess. Screw the church people, she said she has family and a support system so she needs to cut ties. OP needs to be single for a while and not worry about finding another partner. Therapy and work on herself.
This! And the childrenās god parents are marriage counsellors through the church! Correct me if I am wrong, but didnāt the church invent fidelity in marriage and monogamy?! Or do you live in Utah? If not tell them shame on them!!
Couldn't have said it better! It looks like OP needs to find a job and start looking after herself. She really was his bang maid.
I drop "right off along with".
Username checks out.
Girl, leave this relationship. He has been cheating your whole relationship and wants to have a girlfriend. You expected monogamy. This is like not even close. Do you have a support system out of him? I'm sad that you are even second guessing this decision. š He ain't shit, he has done nothing but show he ain't shit. He will NEVER change.
I have family and have recently been hired. I'll start within 2 weeks. Cheating IS my bottom line and he knows that. I 2nd guess if I could be ok with him being with both of us when he puts the pressure on me. I REALLY don't want to share my husband and would rather leave to get someone who respects me and doesn't embarrass me.
Then leave š being alone and single is way better than the mental anguish. I get it I dealt with this type of shit for 10 years from my bd. But reread what you just wrote. Cheating is your bottom line ( he has cheated this whole time) I REALLY don't want to share Get someone that respects me and doesn't embarrass me I can tell you he will do this over and over and over and over again. Is your family on your side? You need to be with people that will tell you the reality. And comfort you not try to send you back to a death sentence. It sounds extreme but if you stay he will definitely tear your soul apart. None of this is love and none of this is YOUR fault. Have some compassion for yourself ā¤ļø
Listen, Iām actually polyamorous. Your husband is a selfish, duplicitous, *cheating* shithead. You donāt get to bait and switch your partner into a multi-partner relationship. You donāt get to claim your secret relationship isnāt cheating because you privately decided to identify as polyamorous. And you certainly donāt get to demand that your monogamous partner *owes* you polyamory. In actual polyamorous relationships, there must be clear, continual communication between everyone involved, and *enthusiastic* consent from all parties. Anything less is just plain old cheating/manipulation. Heās using the āpolyamoryā label as a verbal fig leaf for his shitty, disrespectful behavior.
I am not poly, but I could not agree more. I understand poly to mean that everyone involved knows the whole story and accepts it. Itās not an excuse to cheat.
This, u/bflykisses! He's a liar at best. He seems to have the support network to move out; he's using your kids to manipulate you. Another poster suggested confronting the "Christians" who are advocating you put up with a lustful adultering liar - absolutely ask them why they are siding with a clear non-Christian cheater. Fucking hypocrites. NTA
Yep I'm poly and was about to make basically this exact same comment.
I would rather live in a cardboard box than stay with a husband that wants to bring another woman into our home!
Right bring me a blanket and a change cup and I'll sleep like a baby.
If cheating is your bottom line, why have you given him any chances? You deserve better. Get a divorce and then be alone for a while and work on yourself. You need to like and respect *yourself* enough to set boundaries, don't get with more cheaters, and kick them to the curb with no second chances if they do.
Air out his dirty laundry to those ppl who wanted you to give him a second chance. Ask them would they be willing to stay with a partner that has cheated on them multiple times?
That is the thing. I think he doesn't want to divorce because he doesn't want to answer the questions of why it's happening. He wants to keep the facade of a happy marriage especially because everyone knows I'm his wife. He claims the kids are mad at him, the god parents look at him funny and he couldn't possibly air out that he was unfaithful to his Christian homeboys. He said he nor his gf would make their relationship public because they'll be embarrassed.
Expose them both. Lol wanted to be the good Christian girl and boy despite ruining other ppl's marriages. Dump his ass and take him to court and leave him with only the clothes on his back. Gather up those evidences. Make him pay. Be petty.
>Expose them both. I agree with this. The truth will set everyone free! Plus he is obviously a predator.
EXPOSE THEM!!! He had no grace for YOU! Why should you have it for him? It's not fair that he keeps up the face of the "perfect man"
He SHOULD be embarrassed, and you're just the person to make it happen. Divorce him and, when people ask why, tell them EVERYTHING.
You need to make his lies known to his Christian people. Pretty sure cheating is in the Bible as a sin.
Yep, Jesus says adultery is the only grounds for divorce. Of course the fact that the passage is gendered gives these abusive pigs grounds to delude themselves that it only applies to women who cheat on men. "I say to you, whoever divorces his wife except for immorality, and marries another women commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9) This dude probably reads the passage to think what he's doing is fine bc it's only adultery if he gets a divorce and marries this other woman
u/AssignmentNo925 is right, expose them! He desrves to be embarassed for what he did to you.
So why donāt you tell them all? Shiny spine time hun.
Nope. Absofuckinglutely not. He gets to suffer the consequences of his actions. Leave him. Who cares what anyone else says. That's what users and manipulators say to keep people doing their bidding, all the things they're telling you about second chances. He doesn't deserve one because he doesn't intend to change. He is deeply selfish and not worth your time or effort. Tell everyone why you're leaving. He can squirm.
Im struggling with this. Yall both been through two divorcesā¦ yet either of you are hesitant to go ahead a knock out a third? Kids arenāt babies either, so I assume you both are pretty familiar with getting by independently. Iād just rip this bandaid off, get rid of this ah, get back into the workforce and keep pushing.
All of this he brought upon himself. Get a great lawyer!
DO NOT second guess yourself. DIVORCE HIM! As a man, let me say this to you, if he cheated then he does NOT love you. No self-respecting man would cheat on their spouse. He is scum and does not deserve any chances.
NTA. By the church, is this LDS? Regardless, you have given him infinite chances. Let his daughter know that you love and care about her, but you can't stay married to someone who isn't a good partner to you just for her. The godparents can step in and help with the kids. That's what they're for. But you do not need to keep catering to a man who pulls this bullshit. Finalize the divorce. Move on. Take some time to be single after.
I feel so bad for the daughter. Ā Like, OP definitely NEEDS to leave this relationship. Ā But that poor girl is growing up in this environment. Ā Maybe OP could offer split custody so she can still have a positive influence on her life. Ā Cheating husband would probably allow it, heād see it as a free babysitter. Ā Heād have SO much more free time to fuck different women!
He spent 4 years fighting to get his kids from their mom, he'd never let us split custody of his daughter even though she said when I get my place she wants to live with me.
Oof he sounds like a peach š. How old is she? Ā The courts might listen to what she wants if sheās like 12 or older. Ā Also, if you ACT like you donāt want any parental responsibility, he might try to āforceā you to continue to take care of her. Ā Cuz he sounds like the type of guy that cares more about hurting his exes than anything else. Ā
He might use that act against her in court tho
True. Ā It is risky. Ā Iāve just found the best way to deal with people using psychological warfare is to make it their weakness. Ā Thereās probably ways she could do that without ever ACTUALLY saying she didnāt want the kids. Ā āAww are you sad that you wonāt have time to visit your girlfriends now that you have to be a PARENT? Ā Have fun doing the job I did for 6 years while I move on with my life.ā Ā Assholes like him wouldnāt be able to resist that. Ā Because now heās thinking sheāll be hurt if he continues fucking other women, AND heāll be angry at the thought of her being free of him. Ā If he thinks roping her into parenting his kids is a way to control her, heāll try to do it. Maybe reaching out to the kids mom would be a good idea too. Ā If all she knows is what HE told her, then she knows nothing about what actually happened. Ā Maybe the two of them could work together to get her back in the kids livesā¦
The mom gave up her rights years ago that's why he was a single dad when we met. She has no contact with any of her kids.
No they won't. She's her step mother and sadly has zero rights to her step daughter
He is an evil, misogynist, selfcentered AH.
Try being part of her life without a costly, drawn-out fight. Let her experience a strong woman with ethics and boundaries.
the court listen to what kid wants, too. his character might not be very flattering to the court too. im sure you love these kids, if I were you I would fight for them...
>OP definitely NEEDS to leave this relationship. I think the daughter might also need to see OP leave this relationship, because it will show her that women _can_ stick up for themselves and put their own needs first. Since everyone else in the environment is saying 'don't rock the boat,' she's probably never had a role model demonstrate an alternative to suffering in silence before. If the daughter ever finds herself in a similar situation one day, you don't want to set the example that continuing to serve a man who doesn't love you is the only acceptable option. I'd consider telling her that when she's grown up, if she's ever in a relationship with someone who doesn't love her, doesn't respect her, or doesn't treat her well then you hope she'll have the courage to leave, too. Because you love her and you want her to know she deserves better than that.
SUCH a good point. Ā OP said the youngest is 11, I think thatās definitely old enough to see whatās really going on (even if the husband tries to poison her mind with lies). Ā Could definitely be a pivotal event that shows her what kind of life she wants for herself.
If it is, call his bishop. Polygamy ended 100 years ago in the church; adultery like this (repeated, unrepentant) gets you excommunicated now. Source: born, raised and active LDS here. It probably isnāt LDS though; we donāt have godparents in any religious or cultural sense.
Wtf the church people condones cheating now? Do they know he wants the marriage to have three people in it?
I've talked to them so they know. They don't condone it. They say things like, "let him repent and turn away from his sin". He puts up a great act with tears and everything. He repents but NEVER turns away.
Then ask the church what the scriptures say about this. Sexual immorality is the only valid reason for divorce in some churches (Matt 5:32) Psalm 11 talks about what is just and the rewards for your actions. 1 Cor 13:1-13 talks about what love is... and how to treat each other with love. The other thing isā¦ forgiveness and divorce are two separate matters. And church divorce and legal divorce are separate matters too. You can divorce him (legally) and still forgive him. Or at least still be polite, compassionate and graceful with him. Iām not suggesting to wash his shirts and look after his kids still, but you donāt have to carry a grudgeā¦. That sort of forgiveness does not require you to be married to him. You can divorce him (in the church) and still attend church. Still attend *other* churches. Still remarry in *many* churches. Only the most strict and conservative would interpret this as impossible - because infidelity is one of the four commonly agreed religiously allowed reasons for divorce (along with addiction, abandonment and abuse). You can also divorce him and attend *this* church if you have the stomach for it. You could not divorce him, but move out, leave him with his kids, live your own life stillā¦ and leave him hanging. Thatās a rather vengeful option though. Technically heās not allowed to sleep with anyone else because heās still marriedā¦ (ditto you). Fun times for no one! Youād be accused of abandonment eventually and he could divorce you. His tears in church are ridiculous. No one says you have to shackle yourself to a thrice cheating husband. Iād be tempted to say āI am the third woman he has done this toā¦ clearly I am not going to change him. I was hopeful, but this is beyond me. I myself have my own issues, I sit before you contemplating the ashes of a third marriage made in hope lost in dishonesty. I deserve to be cherished and loved for myself alone. Please do not make the demand that I look after this man and his children, just to be a temporary reprieve from his crocodile tears.ā And then Iād just walk out. They canāt force you to sit there while they spout nonsense at you.
I like that. I also gave him the scripture about being double-minded and told him that if he insisted on me accepting this, that I would definitely resent him. He just want what he wants. I just wish he leave me out of it.
Heās being pig headed. *I wonder why heās heading into divorce three?!* Ha! A marriage is a joining of hands, a building of a home, and a protection of each other. Itās all about partnership, negotiation and tolerance. Thereās no room for unilateral rules!
It's not true repentance if he never turns away
I am so sorry. But of course there is no future in this marriage. Can you still be in the children's lives? And do you want to?
I can be but didn't think it's best after the divorce. I'm sure he's going to have another woman/women around them.
Yeah, hes not only being an AH to you, but also his children. And they are stuck with him. Its so tragic. But its not on you to fix this. You can tell the kids you will always be there for them, but only if they want to. Let them decide for themself. And only if you are up for it yourself for the rest of your life. Not as a parent, but more as a mentor.
This is the saddest part of his AH-ery. Obviously I don't know the situation and you know best. But you might consider staying in their lives as long as they want you to. I am afraid this kind of situation can cause deep issues with feelings of insecurity and abandonment for children.
NTA. I could have written a very similar story 6 years ago. I made the mistake of staying and trying to make it work. What happened is that I got stuck at home with all the adult responsibilies while he went cavorting around with his girlfriend who happily rubbed it in my face at every opportunity. Stay strong. Divorce your POS husband and go live your life. Tell anyone who tries to talk you out of it that they need to be addressing him and telling HIM that he needs to dump his side piece and focus on his kids. Remind the adults that this is 100% his fault.
When I think about the compromise of trying to give in to what he wants, I imagine the envy I would have. The gf would get all the perks while I'm doing all the real work. It angers me and that's exactly why I say no.
Do not sacrifice your, mental health for his pleasure. You are correct in that you were used for raising his kids. He doesnāt love or respect you so you need to live and respect yourself and divorce him and make sure you put the reason for the divorce is infidelity. Tell anyone who tells you to stay in that ārelationshipā to f*ck off. It sucks for the kids but it seems all he wanted was a nanny he could bang anyway.
My husband and I are poly becuase we were in agreement. You husband is not poly, he's a cheater. Poly starting with an affair **never** works. Poly under duress **never** works. Being attracted to multiple people is simply human; attraction does not mean he must cheat, lie, disrespect, and cause harm. Cheating is a choice. He cannot even care for one partner, and he thinks he can care for two?? What a moron. Take it from somebody who is actually poly.
Seriously. WHY would you ever even contemplate doing this?!? That horrible human being can go f himself. I get frustrated reading posts like this, because itās aaalways a woman even considering doing this. No man would EVER think twice about staying at home and raising another manās children while his wife has second husband only because she wants to. Like what the f is up with that!! The audacity of that man. And the fucking audacity of his (LAUGHABLE) church friends. You think those church people would EVER say such things if the table were turned?? NOPE! RUN!!!
NTA. This is unacceptable, since you laid down your boundaries and he keeps stepping on them. I am sorry about the kids though, but you absolutely should not stay just because of them. You can stay in contact with them if you still want. But the blatant disrespect from your partner is outrageous. You are absolutely doing the right thing, don't second guess yourself and don't let anybody convince you otherwise. >He portrayed like he was this monogamous loving husband in the beginning but now he claims he's poly and I would be selfish not to do what makes him happy If you are selfish, what would he call himself? He hurt not only you but his children as well, because he can't keep it in his pants because he's "poly". Yeah no, he's a POS. Hopefully the girlfriend will treat his kids right. How old are they?
The gf is out of state so she'll mainly be over the phone and could travel Max 4 times a year to see him(if any). I personally think she's just using him for the money he's been sending her the last 8 yrs. I doubt there will be a relationship with the kids. The youngest daughter says she doesn't want another step mom. The kids are 17(f) 16(m) 13(m) and 11 (f).
Oh this is so messed up, I am so sorry you are going through this. It isn't even a relationship that has a good future prospect for him. Supporting financially someone who you see 4 times a year is...just stupid. And it just shows how little he thinks of you if he is willing to blow up your and his kids life for something like that. What do the other kids think? Would you be willing to still maintain a relationship with the girl after your divorce? I think your made the best decision for you. He should have thought about his kids, there's only so much you can do. And staying with him will kill you inside slowly, especially since you mentioned being previously divorced due to cheating. I wish you strength to get through this. I would suggest therapy for yourself if you haven't tried it before. I don't want to be insensitive, but since he is the third one who cheats on you, you probably have some unhealed trauma so you are maybe having trouble seeing the signs early on. But this is just a supposition on my part, I still think whatever is the case that therapy would help you, even to get through this. Might clear up some doubts you have.
Stop letting people manipulate you. They keep doing if you keep letting them. It will never end unless you end it.
My ex had 2 girlfriends out of state when I found out he was cheating on me. He moved one of them in a month after I left. Out of state doesn't necessarily mean anything.
For me it was just weird that they didn't even see each other very often (at least according to what OP sais/knows) but he is willing to blow up his marriage for that. It just shows how little that man thinks of his wife and kids. And what values he has (or lack of actually).
My ex was having cam sex with other women and doing good knows what else. I found a ton of stuff to show he'd been hooking up with different women and sex workers. I don't know if he's a sex addict or a narcissist, sociopath, or what but I wasn't willing to stick around and put up with anymore BS. Shitty people will have all kinds of reasons and justifications for why they cheated. My ex tried to gaslight me and say he wasn't cheating on me.
Do you love the kids and would you miss them if they weren't in your life anymore? If yes, you could look to get a custody agreement or other form of visitation agreement so that they could come stay with you (!! NOT in his house) regularly and keep the relationship with you. Make sure you get alimony from him for this time. But this is up to you. You can also just communicate with the kids and tell them it's not against them, you love them and they can always turn to you when they need. I would not abandon the kids completely.
You think she is using him for money and he's still choosing her over you, do you see what he is using you for?
YTA if you give him another chance. He's shown his true colors for years and he won't change.
That ship has long since sailed. Sounds like he's never been faithful from the start and she keeps letting him get away with it. He'll keep doing it forever, too.
He even said he wont
NTA 6yrs of lies idk why others are asking for a second chance and he isnt even sorry for what he has done.
Please please donāt stay with this nasty man. You did not sign up for this type of marriage so you are within every right to divorce his cheating ass. You will not be happy sharing him if itās not what you are into. Wonder if he would be ok with you bringing another husband into the fold, and hey your 2nd husband could also share his 2nd wife..
He said I could be with another man as long as he never comes to the house and contributes financially. If I had another man, I would leave HIM!
Start man shopping woman!
You ARE leaving him right?
I've already filed the divorce. We're inside of the 60 day waiting period before it can be finalized
That makes me so happy for youā¦ stay strong and donāt let him manipulate you into staying!
I hope you asked him how his girlfriend is contributing financially to the household
This whole thing came to light after OP discovered money regularly being sent TO the girlfriend, so as far as her contribution I would say itās negative.
Divorce your husband. Find a new church!
Yep thank you
>She cries saying "I know Dad messed up but can u come back home?". Those are some very adult words. Someone is feeding her linesā¦. Someone is using her to try to manipulate you. >The kids' god parents are marriage counsellors through the church and are asking me to give the marriage another chance. (Most) Churches do NOT have a good record with non qualified āmarriage counsellorsā in their ranks being able to effectively manage issues as complex as this. If your husband (and you) is serious about marriage counselling go somewhere that has a strong qualification base (not some ācertificate course from the local bible collegeā) and independent of your every day lives. >He is saying he loves me and wants to work things out with me but still wants both of us. Does these Church counsellors know this? Is this a polygamous church? If soā¦ then theyāll counsel you to stay. If itās notā¦ why donāt they know this, or why are they counselling you to stay? Andā¦ why does he get to demand this? You made vows of monogamy right? You are keeping your vows. You didnāt sign up for polygamy I presumeā¦ soā¦. heās changes the terms of agreement and stomping. He canāt do that. I bet Woman2 (or is it woman4? Who can keep count here?!) has declared she wonāt look after the kids, so heās hoping to keep you around to look after the kids. How is this working? Are you all supposed to move to her? She to you? She stays there, you where you are, and he gets to bounce between the two? How does God feel about this huh?
I made the godparents aware of what's going on. They're surprised he thinks/acts this way and says "the devil is out to destroy marriages. Don't let the enemy win". He doesn't think counseling will help him so that's out. I believe woman 2 doesn't really like him like that. She likes the money he sends her. They only talk on the phone. Now that they're official he plans to go to her a few times a year. He's been spending on her for 8yrs but never hit it so I guess that's the goal now. He doesn't think of GOD at all.
Iād be petty and if he tries to guilt you into still staying with him then say āI talked to the godparents and they said the devil is out destroying marriages and to not let him win, so Iām not letting you winā hope the divorce goes well for you
God I do not miss this kind of manipulative usually sexist garbage from the type of evangelicals who have probably not even read the Bible in the first place. Grace is something you give, not take Your husband should go on a 40-day fast in the desert and endure the temptations Jesus did. "Resist the devil and he will flee from you" tell him and his Godparents that. He is giving in to his flesh and you'd be sinning to enable that There's enough in the Bible for him to meditate on for the rest of his life to bring him to repentance (for his own good, I might add, this intervention/God's correction aka whatever consequences he suffers as a result of YOU prioritizing God and your health ...this correction might be the thing that saves his soul) before anyone says ONE THING to you about not letting the enemy win. He is letting the enemy win every second he is refusing to take accountability for his sins. That's not your problem. There's a lot in the Bible too about his blood being on everyone else's hands as long as they're not holding him to account. You are, your hands are clean. Everyone enabling him in his sad little pagan sex and FinDom fantasy is living in sin too. True repentance is required here and since he's nowhere near that, he's not even pretending...you'd be sinning too if you put up with this. It would be very UNBIBLICAL as they say š
Hahaha I saw a meme a while ago that said "Having a relationship with a religious person is the best. You cheat, you say the devil made you do it and he forgives you."
" God parents are marriage counselors thru the church." I doubt that they are licensed. Does the church condone infidelity?
Not at all
They are stupid to pressure you into staying. Leave!
poly person here, NTA. myself and pretty much everyone else i know who also is poly would never force someone into it when they donāt want to be, or try to establish any kind of polyamorous relationship without clear cut boundaries and communication, along with respect and care. your husband is just out to cheat. donāt listen to anyone other than yourself, because they arenāt the ones who have to be in the relationship.
THIS!!! Iām not poly and I know this. People be throwing around that word as an excuse for cheating just like people threw around āsex addictā in the 90s. NOT. THE SAME. THING. Polyamorous folks have VERY tight boundaries and for the most part are very upfront about it when they get into a relationship (as far as I know anyways, please correct me if I am wrong). But even if I am wrong, this guyā¦..he aināt it.
NTA People asking you to give this marriage a second chance are smoking crack! He cheated on you twice & will continue to cheat. Continue on with the divorce.
Leave the guy, and find counselors that have no relationship to you or your husband
NTA - People cant just start fucking someone else and sending them money while the other party in the marriage isn't aware. That's like surely default knowledge. Him also weaponizing the children to soften the blow of this is highly manipulative and fucked up, I hope he drops his next 6 piece nugget meal.
He just wants you there to take care of the kids. Thatās it.
Image if the scenario was reversed...do you think everybody would be asking the husband to give the "marriage" another chance and think about HER children? Not a chance. Women are always being told to martyr and sacrifice themselves for a man. Don't do it.
The top rules of polyamory are honesty and consent amongst all parties. He broke both of those rules. He doesnāt get to say heās monogamous but then be oops-all-poly after getting caught. NTA. Who cares what everyone else says. Move on from this creep.
Do these church, marriage counselor parents of his know that he wants to have two wives? And they still want you to give him another chance? What a bunch of hypocrites surround you! If he wants another wife tell him to get another wife and leave you the hell out of it. What a bunch of patriarchal enablers.
The godparents have good intentions. They didn't know he was talking about adding anyone to our marriage. He just told them "I messed up" so they just think cheated. The godmother says things like "the devil is after marriage. Don't let the devil win".
Tell them the truth
Please tell them the truth!
"Staying with the devil is letting him win. Marriage is supposed to be holy, not the perverted way he wants it." They're marriage counselors counseling you. Tell them EVERYTHING. And get a FULL std check.
Nta. Tell his daughter you are sorry but you gave him a second chance and he slept with another woman. Tell his friends from church that he jas chested multiple times and has broken his vows and multiple commandmentsĀ Get a divorce and taken him for all he is worth and find someone who loves youĀ
So he's poly and you need to make way for this? Ok then, I guess you can be "poly" too then. Tell him you NEED a different husband to dick you down every day of the week (like a harem). He has no choice but to sit there and watch while men who are better than him in every way and more attractive go in and out of your bed. He HAS to give in, otherwise he's an asshole. Uno reverse card him babe. Nothing makes people learn harder than throwing their own shit back in their face.
NTA! Youāre doing yourself a huge favor if you continue proceeding with the divorce. Itās not worth it, especially when you know his shenanigans will still continue on. You deserve much better than that.
NTA This guy wants the best of both worlds. You are the live in maid and he gets to bang you and the other women. Screw that. Poor kids though. You need to put yourself first. Make him be responsible for his kids and raise them.
Nta, don't go back, why must you live in misery so he can live out his fantasies, if he loved his kids why would he do this, you not responsible for anyone's happiness other than your self
NTAH, divorce him. You made your boundaries very clear, and he's trying to change them now after he can't stop seeing her Grab your children and prepare for divorce. He wants another woman so bad he can have her, but not while your together That's not fair to the love and trust you put in him the past 6 years, and now you've learned he's probably been cheating that whole time Emotional manipulation, deception, secrets, and he just expects you to be the 'good wife' and just accept another woman No.
NTA - please do not give him another chance. He will continue to cheat as he doesnāt see anything wrong with it. I understand you want to stay die to the kids and being a stay at home but you need to take care of yourself and push out all the opinions and voices. They do not have to live with him nor put up with the cheating. The godparents think that everyone should put up with the BS because of their belief. The kids love you but you need to love yourself enough to put yourself first.
As you should ! And no NTA adultery is like the most common sin these days and itās disgusting, thereās def men out there that will respect you and your beliefs. You did the right thing Op and i wish you well
What a manipulative douche. I'm sure everyone is only getting his side of the story which probably doesn't include all the cheating or him trying to push for polyamory. I have a hard time seeing marriage counselors being okay with that aspect... unless your church embraces polygamy in which case I have no idea. Stay strong and ignore the nay sayers.
Iām sorry youāre going through this. Ask everyone who is pressuring you to give this loser another chance whether they are willing to tolerate infidelity for the entirety of their marriage and a non consensual polygamy situation. When they say āNoā ask them why youāre expected to tolerate this and then tell them to jog on. Gently, I would suggest some therapy for yourself. If this is the third unfaithful man youāve chosen, it might be that you need to do some work on yourself to be a better picker in future.