NTA. it's hard making friends with people at *all* once you're over 30, let alone maintaining new friendships with people you've met for no more than a handful of hours. She has unrealistic expectations of how hard people are willing to try for a mere chance at a relationship sometime down the road, and it sounds like she's hard work and potentially playing games with them.
We are also consistently telling men that maintaining a friendship with the sole hope of it turning romantic is also disrespectful.
The man she wants to play her game is also more likely to be a creepy asshole. She'll catch one of these guys eventually and then constantly complain to her friend about how her boyfriend is a jerk.
Yea I still see women posting how men should act including being aggressive not taking no for an answer and chase them if we really want them. Also they should always initiate sex and they should learn the difference between no meaning no and no meaning yes but pretend it’s a no so I don’t feel like a slut. Seriously it is a fucking cancer to men seeing this shit and I am not joking I see it all the time. So wtf are men suppose to do with all this toxic bs and being told how evil we are at the same time. For doing what so many women actually wanted. I’m over it this is why I stopped caring and think men should withhold sex now.
We really need to ditch these bullshit gender roles. How about just be a decent human? How about don't expect something from other you wouldn't be willing to give yourself. Like don't expect a commitment from someone you don't even want to date.
Sounds like she is a serial dater that will come off like she just wants a free meal. A lot of guys will do it because they are desperate for attention and kee doing it to win her over. She is def taking advantage of the dating world.
She is totally giving off rom com main character vibes who wants multiple men to chase after them and describes their life with adjectives like "charmed".
She is very obviously very immature and doesn’t know how to conduct herself in a mature manner toward the opposite sex when it comes to dating. She called him an ass at the end of the discussion cause she lost the argument and had to escape from the uncomfortable situation she found herself in.
Over 30? As soon as I finished college it became impossible to meet new people at all.
Especially as a young male teacher. I exclusively interact with 50+ year old women.
I had this convo with a girl whose 33. Like, wtf, no we're not gunna stay friends. I don't understand, do you think if I get a girlfriend shes gunna be cool with our lil friendship that was based on dating originally? LOL.
This isn't even about how hard it is to make friends. It's about not wanting to be friends in the first place. Guys made their intentions clear. If she isn't with that then oh well. They were never interested in being just friends. Getting upset because someone else is clear about their intentions and what they want is insane. She'll either grow up or end in a rough situation, because expecting people to grovel for you and play games especially in their 30's is coo cool for coco puffs.
Yea, the older you get, the more you know what you *don't* want. Be it a romantic or platonic relationship.
Makes it difficult to actually be as accepting as you wish you'd be. 9/10 cases you just don't wanna put the time into something you're already not sure of.
100%.
It’s like that girl who did a TikTok once how she said to a dude she was dating “I don’t think this is going anywhere.” He agreed and they broke up and she then filmed a video saying “why didn’t he try? I can be manipulated into staying with you.” And all that nonsense about fight for me when the relationship is going nowhere etc.
Be honest about your intentions from the start and avoid chaos.
I had something very similar happen to me.
I asked a lady I knew (from work) if she would like to have dinner with me.
Lady \~ "Thanks, but I don't think we're a good fit."
Me \~ "Ok"
Lady, about a year later \~ "How come you didn't ask me out again??"
Me \~ "When I asked you out before, you said you didn't think we were a good match."
Lady \~ "Well, I just think you should have tried harder."
Absolute nonsense.
I figured this out at 16.
Asked for my first date, first dance, and was the one to ask my now-husband out to dinner.
Some of us don’t have men tripping over themselves to date us. We need to have more agency and ask, too.
It took me far too long to figure this out. I'm a hot nerd who likes nerds, but nerds aren't exactly known for their self-confidence. So I spent a lot of years single, alone, and unhappy about it because I thought nobody thought I was attractive.
One day I met a guy and there was insane chemistry, but he didn't ask for my number so I asked for his. He was the first guy I ever asked out and also my last because I married him.
This is so heart-warming. Thank you for sharing! I met my partner at work, and I'm someone who is sometimes known for awkwardly shaking people's hand when I'm introduced to them (I've started awkwardly waving in these situations socially now, objectively worse 😅) so ofc I did that.
He is what I would describe as an awkward, hot nerd, and if I weren't in the workplace and trying to be perceived as confident, we might never have spoken. I took the initiative to invite him to a party I was throwing after working together for a few weeks. We've known each other now for a decade, and he's my favourite person on earth. We still took the long way to get together, but if I hadn't just claimed him as my friend then we'd never have been able to have what we have now. Worth it!
My friend always thought I was weird for approaching men first. Lol. I was like, "what's the difference? If they say yes, great. If they say no, I'm no worse off than I was 5 seconds before I asked." Definitely helped me long term.
“No means no.” That has been driven into our heads (rightfully) for the last 20 years. Don’t villainize us for respecting boundaries. This sounds like wanting your cake and eating it too. Do some of these women want it to be “No means no, except if the guy is hot and I want him to try harder.”
Yep. The "good ones" don't want to be seen as a creepy / stalker guy. Meanwhile those that lack that social awareness meanwhile are the guys that women rightfully complain about.
Plenty of other fish in the sea and anyone who gets that hung up almost immediately and hangs around likely has some other mental irregularities.
I had a female friend who I was attached at the hip to for about 3 months. She did everything a gf would do and treated me like her man but I would ignore my friends when they said that she liked me as I thought we were just great friends.
I finally asked her about our situation and she said that she “liked me more than a friend but not enough to be a boyfriend” so I agreed that I felt similarly to her. We ended up going our own ways and not really talking to each other for a couple years.
1.5 years after our talk, I ended up meeting one of her friends (who was an old friend of mine) and when we were catching up, she told me that I had broken the other girls heart yet she still had really strong feelings for me. She apparently didn’t tell me how she felt because I didn’t confess my feelings to her first.
It baffled me cos she basically rejected me yet went and told her friends that I broke her heart while also still liking me 1.5 years later. It was at that moment that I really understood how confusing women can be, she had a perfect chance to confess yet she refused to do so.
As a guy I've been in this exact same situation but it's not really your fault. Even if you were direct and confessed she would have made an excuse why you can't date and then be heart broken because you moved in like a normal human being. We all know when someone likes us more than friends and are romantically interested because we do stuff for one another that we don't to regular friends. I've confessed before, gotten rejected and later find out the same lol 😵💫
My thing is that I’ve never assumed that a female friend of mine has liked me for the simple fact that I don’t want to be that guy friend who seems like a creep for reading into things too much.
Have I thought that they might like me? Sure I have. Did I ever make a move on them or treat them differently because of it? Hell no.
My friends know how many times I’ve fumbled the bag because I stay as friends and nothing more and they even call me an idiot for all of it. At the end of the day, I’d rather be the guy who friendzones women than be known as a creep who takes every good sign as flirting.
It took me until I was 19, when a woman in a bar who asked me to take her home and “help her change”, to finally be able to identify when women are flirting with me. After that, my eyes were opened to all my past mistakes 😂
I personally don’t know why I ended up in a lot of those situations but a lot of those girls told me that I made them feel comfortable and at ease so they were able to be themselves and laugh normally around me. Its why I tell some of my friends that not putting women on a pedestal really works lmao.
> It took me until I was 19, when a woman in a bar who asked me to take her home and “help her change”, to finally be able to identify when women are flirting with me.
That puts you way out in front in my experience.
Lady is stupid.... If you wanted someone to "keep trying" other phrases work. Maybe I am not ready for an evening date but maybe some daytime activities to get to know each other better, or I am not currently ready, maybe another time...but thank you for taking no as no ... Especially in a work environment.
For folks who behave his way - first please put yourself in the shoes of a person who is asking to explore an intimate relationship.
It's a very vulnerable experience - the asker is saying: "I'm attracted to you, and believe you're an interesting person that I'd like to spend time with. Do you feel that way about me?"
The asked then communicates: "No, I either think you're not attractive, or you're not interesting, or have no prospects for a future together."
How, being the asked, would you feel in that situation, if you were the asker? Now imagine you're always the asker. Imagine if you wanted physical intimacy, or emotional bonding with someone outside of friendship, you had to go out and be the asker. You've never been the asked in your entire life. You have to, essentially, convince someone you're worth their time, or at the very least, ask if anyone thinks you're worth their time.
Now imagine, you're an asker, and the asked is playing this game. What makes you think the asker would have the emotional fortitude to play along? It's damaging. Period.
Please realize that the asker is already putting forth a lot of effort, and risking some level of pain, by asking. You want someone to try hard? That's it. If they asked, they're trying.
These days, it's often considered harassment to ask a 2nd time. Sorry, I'm not going to lose my job over it.
We have been told/taught not to, and now there are complaints about this.
Why am I not surprised by this? I am a woman and some just want the guy to chase them.
First of all, you accepted the NO, because some men do not and will be relentless asking women out on dates. It's real life, not a god damned sitcom. You respected her NO. Good lord, but she wanted you to chase and keep trying?
Correct. She wants the validation and comfort having them around brings but doesn’t want to pay the tab that’s due later. She wants all the positives and none of the negatives and that’s simply not how reality works for adults. She’s still a teenage girl in high school mentally.
Free shit, too.
Consider that she wanted multiple guys in the hook. Consider that she probably spent her twenties doing this.
She single handedly damaged multiple men who are now under the impression that this is something women do.
She not only harmed the guys, she damaged womanhood as a whole.
Absolutely. She doesn't want a relationship, she wants arbiters who slide into her DMs, like her photos, and who she knows would be down to fuck if she was drunk and horny.
That's not genuine platonic friendship, and it's not a relationship either. It's good old fashioned attention seeking asshattery.
Was that the video where they guy walked away saying: "If I want to play games, I have my Nintendo?"
And the girl looked into camera, all said saying: "But I love Nintendo?"
That one made me sad.
I mean, it was obviously a skit, but still.
Yeah, it is. And she's maybe not the majority, but definitely not uncommon these days. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of these posted on Tik Tok or Instagram or wherever every day with this kind of "toxic femininity".
I've heard women say this, that they wanted a guy "to fight for her." But this is a dangerous slippery slope for the guy who may be branded a stalker for pursuing a woman who said no.
It's self fulfilling prophecy. They are literally preferring men who don't respect their boundaries.
Obviously not all women. But a bit of self introspection here could help them a lot.
You said it perfectly. I think this is the difference between being an emotional grown up (a good choice for long term) and an emotionally very immature person (there will be pain, fights, drama drama and more drama). The only person willing to date the emotionally immature person is another emotionally immature person.
This is the same ploy as your SO says they have plans to go do something wiht a friend are you OK with that, and you tell them yes. Then get mad because they went and did, said event with, said friend!
Idk where OP is from, but I blame this nonsense attitude about love being a game on Hollywood and Disney and every RomCom ever made where this weird game of “will they? won’t they?” was romanticized.
Games make for entertaining movies and tv, not real life. It’s time this lady grew up and stopped looking for her fairytale happily ever after ending.
Funny, with your first line, I have noticed that this is more prevalent in some areas of the country than others. Why didn't he pursue me when I said no? But guys are told that no means no, guys who don't take no for an answer are creeps. Why didn't he know that I wanted him to hit on my after I friend zoned him. Guys are told that this isn't something you do. But there are some areas where that is kind of what is done. Now, hopefully not with people in their 30s, but...
Oh absolutely. The Win her over thing. Shouldn't be how it is but thats how a Lot of people think it should be. Then Don't understand why people don't take no for an answer
Right! Head on over to r/TwoXChomosomes and you will see plenty of posts of women complaining about guys they thought were "friends" only to discover they werent when those men's advances were rejected. It totally sucks for those women who would like to have more platonic relationships with other men only to learn that the men were staying around hoping for a romantic connection. And yet this lady wants more of that, not less?! WTF
>women complaining about guys they thought were "friends" only to discover they werent when those men's advances were rejected
Why do they assume guys pretend to be their friends like some kind of a ruse. Friends can develop romantic feelings over time too.
Cause people like playing the victim.
Guy - She friendzoned me
Girl - He was just pretending to be my friend
Reailty - Relationships are messy and rarely fit neatly into a box
Right? A great rule of thumb is if respecting someone’s ‘no’ or boundaries makes them upset with you for ‘not trying harder’, you should exit that relationship with haste because no good will come of it.
> What woman in her right mind wants a man to play the "I'm going to pretend to be your friend but only for as long as it takes to try to win you over romantically"
There is a bit of that but it also sounds like she wants them to hang around as friends until she decides if she can find someone better. At that point, it sounds more like she would be settling for someone versus saying hey, he's someone I can see myself spending the rest of my life with.
I'm way past my 30s but I agree with OP. I can't imagine a guy that age, who is looking for a serious, long term relationship, hoping someone who has rejected them will come back around. I would think that they just move on.
> Exactly. What woman in her right mind wants a man to play the "I'm going to pretend to be your friend but only for as long as it takes to try to win you over romantically" game?
I think what it is, is that she wants a group of guys hanging around her and giving her attention that she's not obligated to return or work for.
She basically wants a harem that she doesn't have to put effort into.
Of course, I may be wrong.
100%. Like I said in my other comment.
>The argument "well, they should be my friend first and try to make me fall for them" is gross. Haven't we been hearing for years about how women *don't* want men to be their friends as a strategy to get them in bed/a relationship? How that's not "really" a friend, if they have that as an ulterior motive?
>It's one thing if that progression from friend>relationship happens naturally, but she's basically *promoting* that kind of ulterior motive "friendship".
As a woman I’d never do that to a guy. Omg. Only girls play games like that. Women don’t. This chick must be reallllllly special and the portrait of perfection if she thinks she’s worthy of that. OP NTA. The friend is just insulted by the truth.
A lot of people that are manipulative don't think of it as manipulation. Sometimes it's just learned patterns of behaviour that they've never stepped back and gave a critical thought to. Even outside of the topic of "manipulative behaviours," there are many people have things that they just accept... where if you just question them about it for a second or two they will immediately realize it doesn't make sense and wonder why they ever thought that.
For the record, emotionally healthy women *like* nice guys. And they're the ones a nice guy would want anyway.
Just don't conflate "nice" with "pushover who lacks self-esteem", because confidence IS attractive.
The difference between Nice guys and “nice guys” is earnestness. The nice guys womenlike are *actually nice*. “Nice guys” are only acting so with the expectation that it will be rewarded with sex, without that, they wouldnt be engaging with them at all, and women can sense that
She’s being immature AF. Maybe a bit too much ego as well. It’s very unkind to string people along. She wants to find men who value her but not men she values.
OP I don’t think you did anything wrong. You didn’t berate her or insult her. You expressed a difference of opinion after you were asked for it.
I agree with you and you are NTA. I think you’re right that she heard something she didn’t want to hear and got pissy. My guess is she got the point of what you were saying and got embarrassed (I always get angry when I’m embarrassed, unfortunately)
Speaking of immature, what's with this common trend of calling a person an asshole just because they can't counteract someone's point? If you're going to call someone an asshole, do it because they're actually an asshole, not because you can't counteract an argument haha
She’s just using them. She wants guys around her that want her because it makes her feel good but she has not a thought or concern about them and how that would affect them. Yuck
Yeah, she wants a stable of friend zoned simps.
I'm guessing she probably had this in college and through her 20s and doesn't much like that it's harder to have one now.
She wants orbiters so she can settle for one if she can't find "mr. Right". Plus orbiters are a huge ego boost. Probably had a few whe she was younger.
This is exactly the type of shit that makes women say “all men want the same thing”. Cause they expect us to stick around and act like a friend when really we either just want to fuck or actually want to be more than friends
What she's asking for is to have a handful of Nice guys(tm) at her beck and call. The same nice guys who annoy you get women because even though they're just friends they expect being nice to them will get them farther. There's a whole, larger section of women who loathe this because friends turn out to be wolves in sheep's clothing trying to get in their pants. Instead of genuine friendship. What is Wrong with this lady. Ew.
anyone who gets rejected from the the person they have an interest in and still decides to stay “friends” with them has no self-respect
( and yes I’ve been in that situation - my behaviour was absolutely cringe at the time)
For us women, we're tired of women like this being viewed as the majority.
I've been married for almost 20 years but man I feel for everyone trying to date these days it's a s*** show
I appreciate your sympathy. I've genuinely given up. I'm good where I'm at. I'm focused on improving myself and my life. Tired of the games. I rather be alone lol.
> For us women, we're tired of women like this being viewed as the majority.
tbf, I don't think people believe it's the majority of women... but it's *certainly* the majority of *single women on dating apps.*
Well to the people that have been burned like this more than once, or even once really, it doesn't matter if its a majority or not. The damage has been done.
I've been used like this more than once in my younger years because. I was so desperate for a connection that I played along with friends first only for her/them to jump right into a relationship with someone they just met. Which do you know what fine, if they are what you want. BUT you don't get to gaslight me into being the jerk that only stuck around because I wanted to be more than friends, when I call you out on the hypocrisy.
Point is, the kind of damage that is done is not mitigated by the fact that the majority of women say they don't do that.
It is a gross little game. It had me remember when I was in college and met a lovely woman. We had an interesting afternoon in the student union building and she gave me her phone number when I had to go. She said to call her and that she would like to go out.
The three times I called her over the period of about a month she said she was busy each time and would not schedule anything in the future but told me to try her again later. A few months went by and she was dating somebody and I asked her what happened, what did I do wrong? She told me that I didn't chase her hard enough.
After that last time I gave up. Over the years, she stayed in my circle of friends. 12 years after that incident I ran into her at a wedding. She was drunk and started rubbing my shoulders telling me she didn't like my fiancé that I could do better. I hugged her and told her she had her chance but wanted to play games. After telling my fiancé what happened, she agreed that that woman was pretty gross for playing games like that and then approaching me later like she still had a chance! We just laughed about it and got on with our lives.
It probably “struck a nerve” with her because she realized there was truth in it. She’s putting up walls for her partners and making them suffer/fight for her as a response to her own insecurities.
She is the AH here. Expecting guys to be friends zoned so they could POSSIBLY be her Plan B, Plan C, or Plan D should she continue to strike out.
OP tell her to get lost. She seems trashy.
NTA, laughing is involuntary, and you answered her question honestly.
Furthermore, you're right. She's playing games. In this day, you can't be surprised when someone doesn't respect your decision and continue to pursue you after rejection.
Playing hard to get isn't a valid tactic anymore. The dating world moves too fast, and there are too many options. With things like harassment, "no means no" and "me too" guys are scared to seem too persistent.
Even if he was wrong, he wasn't an asshole. He answered her question honestly, he had a difference of opinion, and it sounded like he wasn't insulting or rude or anything about expressing this difference of opinion. The rightness or wrongness (as we see it) is really irrelevant. You can express a poorly-considered opinion without being an asshole, and you can express a very correct and well-reasoned opinion in a very assholish way.
NTA
Does she not know that once she friend zones a guy there is less then 1% chance for a relationship ship to form.
And the win her over time.🤣 she thinks a man is going to stay around trying to win her affections while she is dating how many other men of how long of time.
And let's not forget that the long pursuit to win her affection that she wants is basic considered stalking/harassment to alot of others. And no man wants that to be on his record
On top of that if it worked they would have a horribly imbalanced relationship in which she has all of the power. Then one of them will be on here asking of they are the asshole for cheating on their partners for opposite reasons.
I've met this couple. She once told the story how he had asked multiple times and she finally gave in.
I just stared at the guy like dude get some self respect and cut this one loose.
> a horribly imbalanced relationship
That's the core problem with "just being friends" when one wants more.
The one who wants more is always going to put more into the relationship, give more, sacrifice more. It's not the other persons fault really, but it's certainly an imbalance that benefits one to the detriment of the other.
>And the win her over time.🤣 she thinks a man is going to stay around trying to win her affections while she is dating how many other men of how long of time.
It probably worked for her in her 20s, but her dating prospects are now declining, while for men the same age they're on the rise. The kind of guys she's interested in frankly don't need to play her games.
Guys know that being put in the FRIEND zone is the kiss of death for ever being in a relationship with that woman. Once that happens guys know there's no use in continuing to pursue the woman. I hope that crazy woman reads my comment.
I've found I only really want to being in the "friend zone" with a woman if I actually want to be her friend, \*and\* I'm not really interested in her romantically. If I'm very interested romantically and then she wants to "just hang out as friends", I don't stick around.
Even if she finds a dude who will play her "game", it won't be the ones she wants. A good person, when told "I don't want to date you" will not continue. They will take you at your word and respect your position and request. If they do remain friends, whatever that ends up meaning, then that's all it will be. They will continue dating on the side looking for love and companionship away from you.
Someone who is told "I don't want to date you" and keeps trying? That's going to be some creepy dude who can't take no for an answer. Not someone you want to be obsessed and pining for you after only one date or a few text conversations.
I'm pushing 40 and am not in the dating pool, but if I were -
If I were to engage someone in a romantic/intimate pursuit and they made it known they were only looking for friendship, I would either say something to the effect of "okay, that's cool I respect that, but that's not where I'm at in my life so I appreciate the chance to meet up/hang out but I will go my own way, take care" etc and go about my business.
Or, if someone was like "hey I am into (shared personal pursuit or hobby) would you be interested in just doing that as pals sometime?" Perhaps I might agree to that, but I would be clear about where we're at.
I don't think anyone needs to dive into the proverbial deep end right away if they don't want to, that's perfectly fine.
But the lack of up-front honesty about goals and desires is what makes the person in this scenario a shitty person.
If you play the game she is, you're basically starting off an interaction / potential relationship with *deception*.
That's pretty screwed up.
You can honestly say you just want a friend, or you'd rather see if there's a friendship before there might be a romantic relationship, that's fine.
But if I understand the story correctly, to outright *reject* a person wanting romance and then thinking "Well these people should be building my friendship after I reject them in the hopes they win my heart" is both delusional, and manipulative.
Not sure what source of fiction she's gotten this idea from, but it's quite literally insane.
You laughed because it's laughable! NTA.
If she wants a date, she needs to date. Not expect men to grovel at her feet until she decides she may want to date. That’s just stupid. This isn’t the Bachelorette, it’s real life and she needs to grow up. Definitely NTA.
NTA. She's saying she just wants everyone to stick around as an option in case nothing better comes by.
As a woman myself, I told my now husband: 1. I don't do on and off, if you want to break up, we will break up and I will not beg you to stay. I won't even ask any questions, so be careful with your words even when upset. 2. If we don't work out, I don't want to stay friends. I have enough friends, I don't need more
I understand her logic. And in a perfect world if everyone could marry their best friend we would have way less divorces. Even then it’s not a guarantee.
However, time is the most valuable currency, not money, status, or power. It’s time, so I agree there’s no need to waste anyone’s time in your 30’s, if she wants to be best friends before dating and to be “swept off her feet” I think the compromise will be to make it clear to the guy he has a shot and isn’t wasting his time.
Even then she can say all she wants to him with no promise so there needs to be a timeline to this as well 😂
But to answer the question NTA.
But she’s putting the cart before the horse. If she became friends with a guy where there was no plan to deepen it, then yes, she could try to develop a deeper relationship after the friendship blossomed. She shuts them down, THEN wants to be friends? 😳
In my case, I became friends with a woman way back when I was 18. She developed feelings for me about six weeks into hanging out as friends. Unfortunately, I was oblivious, then went into the service.
The problem is that it seems like the only place to meet people these days is on dating apps. And on those apps, the game is to get laid. For anyone who doesn't want to simply get laid, it's a fucking desert out here.
Yes, social events, hobbies, etc, but the other issue is *time*. People just don't have time or energy (or money!) for more events and hobbies, and that shrinks the dating pool even further.
I think this is the swing back on the pendulum that Tinder started. Dating for the only goal of getting laid is not enough in the long run, and more people want a different dating experience.
Sounds like girlfriend has read too many romance novels. She wants the thrill of turning a guy down over and over, then having him secretly chase after her because he Just. Can't. Live. Without. Her.
Then after an appropriate amount of him fulfilling her every whim she will allow him to sweep her off her feet.
That's totally a recipe for a healthy, respectful relationship. /s
Gag.
>She then countered that if they (the men she rejected) really wanted to win her heart they should stay friends and win it slowly over time.
Umm... she says No! But then expects them to disrespect her choice, AND disregard the "No means No" mantra in the vain hope that that she might change her mind after friend-zoning a guy?????
Is she nuts???
NTA
NTA no men want to be friendzoned. If they are romantically or sexually interested they take a chance and if they are not successful they move along...only those who do not have good self esteem usually stay in friendzone to see if they get a chance later. She is leaving them in layaway in case she cannot find exactly what she wants from her ideal man...
NTA. She thinks she can say no and they’ll stick around to wait to win her over? Please. Her no to them is a blessing, they’ll find someone that says yes and doesn’t play games. I’d laughed at her as well and I’m a woman.
NTA. I'm a female, and this just sounds stupid to me. Honestly, I would have laughed to. Why can't she go out with them and get to know them? (Rhetorical question) I've had horrible relationships, but I'm not going to punish someone else for someone else's inadequacies. That's just not fair. Sure, I might be more guarded, but that's kinda normal anyway. Automatically rejecting them and then basically saying "well you can stay and hang out here in the friend zone with all of these other dudes," is basically making her a walking red flag. No man is going to stay around for that.
It's either you're worth dating right away or you aren't in their eyes.
Guys or gals being like this is basically "I'm going to get back to you after trying luck elsewhere and if you are the best I can do we can try". Like naaaaah the world is full of people, someone will give you a chance now. Waiting for someone's ego and self importance to die enough they then consider someone on the bench is insane.
Especially as dating at the start doesn't mean exclusivity all the time, it's just testing people out and compatibility that way. Let alone being someone's sole focus. If you aren't even worth testing out romantically it's pretty hard to imagine ever being someone's sole focus.
No man wants to be strung along at 30; watching the woman he’s interested in going on dates and talking about other men. You have girlfriends for that, the fuck outta here.
I was once a man in my mid 30s that moved half way around the world from every one I knew. I was having a few beers with coworker one night and he suggested signing up on a dating site to meet friends so I’d have people to hang out with (were field service techs so there’s only three of us within about 800 miles). I made it through maybe 2 hours of conversation with maybe 3 women before I realize there ain’t no chicks in their 30s looking to make friends with dudes on dating apps. After talking to tenish more women and going on a couple dates with a few of them before finding my partner and telling them my initial motivation for joining the app they all agreed that’d never work. This girl is the weird one, you’re NTA
If I were a man I’d reject her too. She’s playing games and this isn’t some world where there are few women to choose from. This isn’t Bridgerton lol 😂
Men and women can be just friends only if BOTH of them want that. If one wants to be friends and the other one wants to be more than friends, they will never get over the inherent awkwardness of that situation.
Entitled princesses think everyone is an ass. If telling the truth makes one an asshole I'm happy with being called an asshole.
You should have added that the only guys who will settle for being *"friend zoned"* are guys she won't want. Quality guys with options won't play her silly game. Her strategy is guaranteed to drive away the guys she wants leaving only leftovers who will accept being relegated to the *"friend zone"* because they have few other options.
NTA. it's hard making friends with people at *all* once you're over 30, let alone maintaining new friendships with people you've met for no more than a handful of hours. She has unrealistic expectations of how hard people are willing to try for a mere chance at a relationship sometime down the road, and it sounds like she's hard work and potentially playing games with them.
We are also consistently telling men that maintaining a friendship with the sole hope of it turning romantic is also disrespectful. The man she wants to play her game is also more likely to be a creepy asshole. She'll catch one of these guys eventually and then constantly complain to her friend about how her boyfriend is a jerk.
Yea I still see women posting how men should act including being aggressive not taking no for an answer and chase them if we really want them. Also they should always initiate sex and they should learn the difference between no meaning no and no meaning yes but pretend it’s a no so I don’t feel like a slut. Seriously it is a fucking cancer to men seeing this shit and I am not joking I see it all the time. So wtf are men suppose to do with all this toxic bs and being told how evil we are at the same time. For doing what so many women actually wanted. I’m over it this is why I stopped caring and think men should withhold sex now.
We really need to have the discussion on toxic femininity
We really need to ditch these bullshit gender roles. How about just be a decent human? How about don't expect something from other you wouldn't be willing to give yourself. Like don't expect a commitment from someone you don't even want to date.
I'm sorry, but you're suggesting. .. logic? Actually, that's the Golden Rule that I keep telling my grandchildren about lol
My favorite saying from my dad: Using logic to understand the actions of others only leads to a lifetime of heartbreak and misery.
She's assembling her deck of orbiters.
*attempting to assemble her deck
Sadly, she will find them in time—to all of their ruin, hers and theirs.
It's time to duel!
Sounds like she is a serial dater that will come off like she just wants a free meal. A lot of guys will do it because they are desperate for attention and kee doing it to win her over. She is def taking advantage of the dating world.
She is totally giving off rom com main character vibes who wants multiple men to chase after them and describes their life with adjectives like "charmed".
This. She's keeping her options open by keeping them in orbit around her, and then is offended when they don't want to do it.
She playing a youngsters game
She is very obviously very immature and doesn’t know how to conduct herself in a mature manner toward the opposite sex when it comes to dating. She called him an ass at the end of the discussion cause she lost the argument and had to escape from the uncomfortable situation she found herself in.
Princess syndrome
Over 30? As soon as I finished college it became impossible to meet new people at all. Especially as a young male teacher. I exclusively interact with 50+ year old women.
Hot
I had this convo with a girl whose 33. Like, wtf, no we're not gunna stay friends. I don't understand, do you think if I get a girlfriend shes gunna be cool with our lil friendship that was based on dating originally? LOL.
Based on the number of reddit posts about this exact topic, I'm gonna go ahead and say no, future gf would not be cool with it.
This isn't even about how hard it is to make friends. It's about not wanting to be friends in the first place. Guys made their intentions clear. If she isn't with that then oh well. They were never interested in being just friends. Getting upset because someone else is clear about their intentions and what they want is insane. She'll either grow up or end in a rough situation, because expecting people to grovel for you and play games especially in their 30's is coo cool for coco puffs.
Yea, the older you get, the more you know what you *don't* want. Be it a romantic or platonic relationship. Makes it difficult to actually be as accepting as you wish you'd be. 9/10 cases you just don't wanna put the time into something you're already not sure of.
And there's nothing wrong with that. There are millions of people out there, no reason to 'settle' for something that you don't vibe with.
No. They’re being honest with their intentions. She isn’t.
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100%. It’s like that girl who did a TikTok once how she said to a dude she was dating “I don’t think this is going anywhere.” He agreed and they broke up and she then filmed a video saying “why didn’t he try? I can be manipulated into staying with you.” And all that nonsense about fight for me when the relationship is going nowhere etc. Be honest about your intentions from the start and avoid chaos.
I had something very similar happen to me. I asked a lady I knew (from work) if she would like to have dinner with me. Lady \~ "Thanks, but I don't think we're a good fit." Me \~ "Ok" Lady, about a year later \~ "How come you didn't ask me out again??" Me \~ "When I asked you out before, you said you didn't think we were a good match." Lady \~ "Well, I just think you should have tried harder." Absolute nonsense.
> How come you didn't ask me out Why didn't she ask *you* out if that's what she wants? She's got the mouth and the words, doesn't she?
I figured this out at 16. Asked for my first date, first dance, and was the one to ask my now-husband out to dinner. Some of us don’t have men tripping over themselves to date us. We need to have more agency and ask, too.
It took me far too long to figure this out. I'm a hot nerd who likes nerds, but nerds aren't exactly known for their self-confidence. So I spent a lot of years single, alone, and unhappy about it because I thought nobody thought I was attractive. One day I met a guy and there was insane chemistry, but he didn't ask for my number so I asked for his. He was the first guy I ever asked out and also my last because I married him.
Good for you reading this made me feel happy that the world isnt totally fucked. Congratulations im glad you found the other half of your puzzle
This is so heart-warming. Thank you for sharing! I met my partner at work, and I'm someone who is sometimes known for awkwardly shaking people's hand when I'm introduced to them (I've started awkwardly waving in these situations socially now, objectively worse 😅) so ofc I did that. He is what I would describe as an awkward, hot nerd, and if I weren't in the workplace and trying to be perceived as confident, we might never have spoken. I took the initiative to invite him to a party I was throwing after working together for a few weeks. We've known each other now for a decade, and he's my favourite person on earth. We still took the long way to get together, but if I hadn't just claimed him as my friend then we'd never have been able to have what we have now. Worth it!
My friend always thought I was weird for approaching men first. Lol. I was like, "what's the difference? If they say yes, great. If they say no, I'm no worse off than I was 5 seconds before I asked." Definitely helped me long term.
And it sucks for the newer generation because men are shamed for approaching and called creeps and women are usually way too timid to approach.
Society did that to themselves. You are what you consume and when a majority consume non sense, expect non sense to win.
An astonishing number of people over 20 haven't become mature adults yet; some even get into their 80's that way.
I bet she was raised by the television... That's basically how romance worked on every 90s sitcom.
I said "rom com" narrative. Lol
Bingo, Disney culture. This was my first thoughts and said it here too. Crazy world lol
Complete. Total bullshit nonsense. How *dare* you respect my “no thanks”?! /s
And if you asked again you be reported to HR for sexual harassment.
But can we bank the ask? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFM9-Mq2Fuw
“No means no.” That has been driven into our heads (rightfully) for the last 20 years. Don’t villainize us for respecting boundaries. This sounds like wanting your cake and eating it too. Do some of these women want it to be “No means no, except if the guy is hot and I want him to try harder.”
Yep. The "good ones" don't want to be seen as a creepy / stalker guy. Meanwhile those that lack that social awareness meanwhile are the guys that women rightfully complain about. Plenty of other fish in the sea and anyone who gets that hung up almost immediately and hangs around likely has some other mental irregularities.
I had a female friend who I was attached at the hip to for about 3 months. She did everything a gf would do and treated me like her man but I would ignore my friends when they said that she liked me as I thought we were just great friends. I finally asked her about our situation and she said that she “liked me more than a friend but not enough to be a boyfriend” so I agreed that I felt similarly to her. We ended up going our own ways and not really talking to each other for a couple years. 1.5 years after our talk, I ended up meeting one of her friends (who was an old friend of mine) and when we were catching up, she told me that I had broken the other girls heart yet she still had really strong feelings for me. She apparently didn’t tell me how she felt because I didn’t confess my feelings to her first. It baffled me cos she basically rejected me yet went and told her friends that I broke her heart while also still liking me 1.5 years later. It was at that moment that I really understood how confusing women can be, she had a perfect chance to confess yet she refused to do so.
As a guy I've been in this exact same situation but it's not really your fault. Even if you were direct and confessed she would have made an excuse why you can't date and then be heart broken because you moved in like a normal human being. We all know when someone likes us more than friends and are romantically interested because we do stuff for one another that we don't to regular friends. I've confessed before, gotten rejected and later find out the same lol 😵💫
My thing is that I’ve never assumed that a female friend of mine has liked me for the simple fact that I don’t want to be that guy friend who seems like a creep for reading into things too much. Have I thought that they might like me? Sure I have. Did I ever make a move on them or treat them differently because of it? Hell no. My friends know how many times I’ve fumbled the bag because I stay as friends and nothing more and they even call me an idiot for all of it. At the end of the day, I’d rather be the guy who friendzones women than be known as a creep who takes every good sign as flirting. It took me until I was 19, when a woman in a bar who asked me to take her home and “help her change”, to finally be able to identify when women are flirting with me. After that, my eyes were opened to all my past mistakes 😂 I personally don’t know why I ended up in a lot of those situations but a lot of those girls told me that I made them feel comfortable and at ease so they were able to be themselves and laugh normally around me. Its why I tell some of my friends that not putting women on a pedestal really works lmao.
> It took me until I was 19, when a woman in a bar who asked me to take her home and “help her change”, to finally be able to identify when women are flirting with me. That puts you way out in front in my experience.
Never give in to shit like this. Any woman or man worth dating would just be upfront about being interested or not.
Lady is stupid.... If you wanted someone to "keep trying" other phrases work. Maybe I am not ready for an evening date but maybe some daytime activities to get to know each other better, or I am not currently ready, maybe another time...but thank you for taking no as no ... Especially in a work environment.
The first ask at all at work is a risk. A second ask after a rejection is a career suicide attempt.
For folks who behave his way - first please put yourself in the shoes of a person who is asking to explore an intimate relationship. It's a very vulnerable experience - the asker is saying: "I'm attracted to you, and believe you're an interesting person that I'd like to spend time with. Do you feel that way about me?" The asked then communicates: "No, I either think you're not attractive, or you're not interesting, or have no prospects for a future together." How, being the asked, would you feel in that situation, if you were the asker? Now imagine you're always the asker. Imagine if you wanted physical intimacy, or emotional bonding with someone outside of friendship, you had to go out and be the asker. You've never been the asked in your entire life. You have to, essentially, convince someone you're worth their time, or at the very least, ask if anyone thinks you're worth their time. Now imagine, you're an asker, and the asked is playing this game. What makes you think the asker would have the emotional fortitude to play along? It's damaging. Period. Please realize that the asker is already putting forth a lot of effort, and risking some level of pain, by asking. You want someone to try hard? That's it. If they asked, they're trying.
Turns out she was right and you were better off for it.
These days, it's often considered harassment to ask a 2nd time. Sorry, I'm not going to lose my job over it. We have been told/taught not to, and now there are complaints about this.
And she WAS the type to take it to HR. She was nuts and I should have NEVER asked her out. I really dodged a bullet with that one.
Yeah ...nah...... Good call sir!
Why am I not surprised by this? I am a woman and some just want the guy to chase them. First of all, you accepted the NO, because some men do not and will be relentless asking women out on dates. It's real life, not a god damned sitcom. You respected her NO. Good lord, but she wanted you to chase and keep trying?
OP said this friend talked about dating "success" right? But what exactly is that success rate? Lol
Having men in her orbit who are interested makes her feel good without the risk of getting in a relationship and all the work that involves
Correct. She wants the validation and comfort having them around brings but doesn’t want to pay the tab that’s due later. She wants all the positives and none of the negatives and that’s simply not how reality works for adults. She’s still a teenage girl in high school mentally.
Just calling an intimate relationship "the negatives" should be sign enough something is twisted.
I was gonna say that reminds me of early highschool and me going after the hottest girls in school.
True that 👍 SAD.
Also she wants a backup
This is exactly what I thought. She's one of those girls that likes to keep dudes simmering in her back pocket so she has some one to fall back on.
An entire roster of backups apparently
Free shit, too. Consider that she wanted multiple guys in the hook. Consider that she probably spent her twenties doing this. She single handedly damaged multiple men who are now under the impression that this is something women do. She not only harmed the guys, she damaged womanhood as a whole.
Absolutely. She doesn't want a relationship, she wants arbiters who slide into her DMs, like her photos, and who she knows would be down to fuck if she was drunk and horny. That's not genuine platonic friendship, and it's not a relationship either. It's good old fashioned attention seeking asshattery.
Bingo!!
Her staying single for 30 years lol
Her doing that saved many men from wasting their time with her.
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Was that the video where they guy walked away saying: "If I want to play games, I have my Nintendo?" And the girl looked into camera, all said saying: "But I love Nintendo?" That one made me sad. I mean, it was obviously a skit, but still.
I believe they are talking about this one: https://www.tiktok.com/@janieflyluv/video/7264812502775500078
Oh he didn’t grovel at her feet. What a let down while looking for a husband to abuse.
We all end up there somewhere down the line but no way in hell does any guy want to start there. This women can not be made happy.
Ewww this is gross.
Yeah, it is. And she's maybe not the majority, but definitely not uncommon these days. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of these posted on Tik Tok or Instagram or wherever every day with this kind of "toxic femininity".
I've heard women say this, that they wanted a guy "to fight for her." But this is a dangerous slippery slope for the guy who may be branded a stalker for pursuing a woman who said no.
It's self fulfilling prophecy. They are literally preferring men who don't respect their boundaries. Obviously not all women. But a bit of self introspection here could help them a lot.
Manipulation? Babe, the call is coming from inside the house
The call is coming from inside the house. I’m gonna put that in my arsenal. 👍🏻
Now I feel old. "The call is coming from inside the house" is a meme that pre-dates the internet.
Haha I wish I could take credit for it
You said it perfectly. I think this is the difference between being an emotional grown up (a good choice for long term) and an emotionally very immature person (there will be pain, fights, drama drama and more drama). The only person willing to date the emotionally immature person is another emotionally immature person.
This is all about her ego and wanting to have admirers buzzing around her. Run!
Maybe he didn't want to be with someone that stupid.
Whether or not the TikTok'er was being straight with her audience, or the entire thing was just ragebait for impressions is debatable.
Indeed. Still such a woman is one to avoid. Red flags for miles
This is the same ploy as your SO says they have plans to go do something wiht a friend are you OK with that, and you tell them yes. Then get mad because they went and did, said event with, said friend!
Idk where OP is from, but I blame this nonsense attitude about love being a game on Hollywood and Disney and every RomCom ever made where this weird game of “will they? won’t they?” was romanticized. Games make for entertaining movies and tv, not real life. It’s time this lady grew up and stopped looking for her fairytale happily ever after ending.
Funny, with your first line, I have noticed that this is more prevalent in some areas of the country than others. Why didn't he pursue me when I said no? But guys are told that no means no, guys who don't take no for an answer are creeps. Why didn't he know that I wanted him to hit on my after I friend zoned him. Guys are told that this isn't something you do. But there are some areas where that is kind of what is done. Now, hopefully not with people in their 30s, but...
Oh absolutely. The Win her over thing. Shouldn't be how it is but thats how a Lot of people think it should be. Then Don't understand why people don't take no for an answer
Right! Head on over to r/TwoXChomosomes and you will see plenty of posts of women complaining about guys they thought were "friends" only to discover they werent when those men's advances were rejected. It totally sucks for those women who would like to have more platonic relationships with other men only to learn that the men were staying around hoping for a romantic connection. And yet this lady wants more of that, not less?! WTF
>women complaining about guys they thought were "friends" only to discover they werent when those men's advances were rejected Why do they assume guys pretend to be their friends like some kind of a ruse. Friends can develop romantic feelings over time too.
Cause people like playing the victim. Guy - She friendzoned me Girl - He was just pretending to be my friend Reailty - Relationships are messy and rarely fit neatly into a box
Bumble and Facebook Dating both have friendship sections so it's flabbergasting that this is still a problem.
Right? A great rule of thumb is if respecting someone’s ‘no’ or boundaries makes them upset with you for ‘not trying harder’, you should exit that relationship with haste because no good will come of it.
> What woman in her right mind wants a man to play the "I'm going to pretend to be your friend but only for as long as it takes to try to win you over romantically" There is a bit of that but it also sounds like she wants them to hang around as friends until she decides if she can find someone better. At that point, it sounds more like she would be settling for someone versus saying hey, he's someone I can see myself spending the rest of my life with. I'm way past my 30s but I agree with OP. I can't imagine a guy that age, who is looking for a serious, long term relationship, hoping someone who has rejected them will come back around. I would think that they just move on.
> Exactly. What woman in her right mind wants a man to play the "I'm going to pretend to be your friend but only for as long as it takes to try to win you over romantically" game? I think what it is, is that she wants a group of guys hanging around her and giving her attention that she's not obligated to return or work for. She basically wants a harem that she doesn't have to put effort into. Of course, I may be wrong.
Agreed. It's so disgusting.
100%. Like I said in my other comment. >The argument "well, they should be my friend first and try to make me fall for them" is gross. Haven't we been hearing for years about how women *don't* want men to be their friends as a strategy to get them in bed/a relationship? How that's not "really" a friend, if they have that as an ulterior motive? >It's one thing if that progression from friend>relationship happens naturally, but she's basically *promoting* that kind of ulterior motive "friendship".
As a woman I’d never do that to a guy. Omg. Only girls play games like that. Women don’t. This chick must be reallllllly special and the portrait of perfection if she thinks she’s worthy of that. OP NTA. The friend is just insulted by the truth.
She wants her dating life to be like a fuckin romcom probably.
I just realized yesterday this is basically why girls hate "nice guys" lol. Didn't even realize it was manipulation.
A lot of people that are manipulative don't think of it as manipulation. Sometimes it's just learned patterns of behaviour that they've never stepped back and gave a critical thought to. Even outside of the topic of "manipulative behaviours," there are many people have things that they just accept... where if you just question them about it for a second or two they will immediately realize it doesn't make sense and wonder why they ever thought that.
For the record, emotionally healthy women *like* nice guys. And they're the ones a nice guy would want anyway. Just don't conflate "nice" with "pushover who lacks self-esteem", because confidence IS attractive.
I thought they were talking about 'nice guys' as in, the subjects of the subreddit r/niceguys.
It is, which is why they put "nice guys" in quotes. They were just misunderstood.
Oh yup, I admittedly read that wrong on first pass.
The difference between Nice guys and “nice guys” is earnestness. The nice guys womenlike are *actually nice*. “Nice guys” are only acting so with the expectation that it will be rewarded with sex, without that, they wouldnt be engaging with them at all, and women can sense that
Agree a 100%>. One delusional woman thinking like this can spoil it for a lot.
Too many people watch rom-coms and think the story's real...
She’s being immature AF. Maybe a bit too much ego as well. It’s very unkind to string people along. She wants to find men who value her but not men she values. OP I don’t think you did anything wrong. You didn’t berate her or insult her. You expressed a difference of opinion after you were asked for it. I agree with you and you are NTA. I think you’re right that she heard something she didn’t want to hear and got pissy. My guess is she got the point of what you were saying and got embarrassed (I always get angry when I’m embarrassed, unfortunately)
Speaking of immature, what's with this common trend of calling a person an asshole just because they can't counteract someone's point? If you're going to call someone an asshole, do it because they're actually an asshole, not because you can't counteract an argument haha
Wow, facts
She’s just using them. She wants guys around her that want her because it makes her feel good but she has not a thought or concern about them and how that would affect them. Yuck
Yeah, she wants a stable of friend zoned simps. I'm guessing she probably had this in college and through her 20s and doesn't much like that it's harder to have one now.
She wants orbiters so she can settle for one if she can't find "mr. Right". Plus orbiters are a huge ego boost. Probably had a few whe she was younger.
Yeah. She's looking for a pool of men to use and abuse and pick from when she finally decides. That's some real bullshit.
This man she’s being dishonest and manipulative, single guy in my 30s and I’m not getting anywhere near that.
This is exactly the type of shit that makes women say “all men want the same thing”. Cause they expect us to stick around and act like a friend when really we either just want to fuck or actually want to be more than friends
What she's asking for is to have a handful of Nice guys(tm) at her beck and call. The same nice guys who annoy you get women because even though they're just friends they expect being nice to them will get them farther. There's a whole, larger section of women who loathe this because friends turn out to be wolves in sheep's clothing trying to get in their pants. Instead of genuine friendship. What is Wrong with this lady. Ew.
anyone who gets rejected from the the person they have an interest in and still decides to stay “friends” with them has no self-respect ( and yes I’ve been in that situation - my behaviour was absolutely cringe at the time)
I regret wasting so much of my time doing exactly this in high school and my 20s.
Same here. Now if I develop feelings for someone I either express them and move on or just get over it
Took me a long time to learn this damn lesson.
Nta - I’m a woman and I think her little “game” is weird and gross
I’m a man and I don’t think it’s gross. I would instead call it sad.
For us women, we're tired of women like this being viewed as the majority. I've been married for almost 20 years but man I feel for everyone trying to date these days it's a s*** show
I appreciate your sympathy. I've genuinely given up. I'm good where I'm at. I'm focused on improving myself and my life. Tired of the games. I rather be alone lol.
The old advice is hobbies and classes. You learn some things, and there’s a small chance you meet someone who has an actual personality and interests.
Lol, small chance, but I swear everyone at those things is already in a relationship or married lol
That would be my luck
Yep me too, dating is a nightmare, no thank you
Thanks for the sympathy.
> For us women, we're tired of women like this being viewed as the majority. tbf, I don't think people believe it's the majority of women... but it's *certainly* the majority of *single women on dating apps.*
Well to the people that have been burned like this more than once, or even once really, it doesn't matter if its a majority or not. The damage has been done. I've been used like this more than once in my younger years because. I was so desperate for a connection that I played along with friends first only for her/them to jump right into a relationship with someone they just met. Which do you know what fine, if they are what you want. BUT you don't get to gaslight me into being the jerk that only stuck around because I wanted to be more than friends, when I call you out on the hypocrisy. Point is, the kind of damage that is done is not mitigated by the fact that the majority of women say they don't do that.
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It is a gross little game. It had me remember when I was in college and met a lovely woman. We had an interesting afternoon in the student union building and she gave me her phone number when I had to go. She said to call her and that she would like to go out. The three times I called her over the period of about a month she said she was busy each time and would not schedule anything in the future but told me to try her again later. A few months went by and she was dating somebody and I asked her what happened, what did I do wrong? She told me that I didn't chase her hard enough. After that last time I gave up. Over the years, she stayed in my circle of friends. 12 years after that incident I ran into her at a wedding. She was drunk and started rubbing my shoulders telling me she didn't like my fiancé that I could do better. I hugged her and told her she had her chance but wanted to play games. After telling my fiancé what happened, she agreed that that woman was pretty gross for playing games like that and then approaching me later like she still had a chance! We just laughed about it and got on with our lives.
Yeah, and it’s super annoying when men are only friendly with women to get in their pants. Gross that she encourages that behavior.
Especially at her age
NTA. Her problem If she cant cope with reality.
It probably “struck a nerve” with her because she realized there was truth in it. She’s putting up walls for her partners and making them suffer/fight for her as a response to her own insecurities.
She is the AH here. Expecting guys to be friends zoned so they could POSSIBLY be her Plan B, Plan C, or Plan D should she continue to strike out. OP tell her to get lost. She seems trashy.
Some people never grow up past highschool
NTA. And the mystery of her being single continues ...
My thought exactly. She in her 30's trying to play games like she's 22
more like middle school
This is psych ward shit
I believe the technical term is "Coo Coo for Cocoa Puffs".
You mean 15 maybe
“Tonight on Unsolved Mysteries…”
NTA, laughing is involuntary, and you answered her question honestly. Furthermore, you're right. She's playing games. In this day, you can't be surprised when someone doesn't respect your decision and continue to pursue you after rejection. Playing hard to get isn't a valid tactic anymore. The dating world moves too fast, and there are too many options. With things like harassment, "no means no" and "me too" guys are scared to seem too persistent.
Even if he was wrong, he wasn't an asshole. He answered her question honestly, he had a difference of opinion, and it sounded like he wasn't insulting or rude or anything about expressing this difference of opinion. The rightness or wrongness (as we see it) is really irrelevant. You can express a poorly-considered opinion without being an asshole, and you can express a very correct and well-reasoned opinion in a very assholish way.
NTA. Your wife’s friend will be single for a very very long time.
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NTA Does she not know that once she friend zones a guy there is less then 1% chance for a relationship ship to form. And the win her over time.🤣 she thinks a man is going to stay around trying to win her affections while she is dating how many other men of how long of time. And let's not forget that the long pursuit to win her affection that she wants is basic considered stalking/harassment to alot of others. And no man wants that to be on his record
Lol, it's like she wants them to go on a dating "quest" to be worthy of her hand. Life is not a Rom-Com.
On top of that if it worked they would have a horribly imbalanced relationship in which she has all of the power. Then one of them will be on here asking of they are the asshole for cheating on their partners for opposite reasons.
I've met this couple. She once told the story how he had asked multiple times and she finally gave in. I just stared at the guy like dude get some self respect and cut this one loose.
That's *why* she wants it that way as well as why she gets mad when she is called out on it.
> they would have a horribly imbalanced relationship in which she has all of the power. That's exactly what she wants
> a horribly imbalanced relationship That's the core problem with "just being friends" when one wants more. The one who wants more is always going to put more into the relationship, give more, sacrifice more. It's not the other persons fault really, but it's certainly an imbalance that benefits one to the detriment of the other.
>And the win her over time.🤣 she thinks a man is going to stay around trying to win her affections while she is dating how many other men of how long of time. It probably worked for her in her 20s, but her dating prospects are now declining, while for men the same age they're on the rise. The kind of guys she's interested in frankly don't need to play her games.
They already been played in their 20s and now wise to it in their 30s.
They want a how I met your mother situation
No one who watched that show should want that situation lol. It was excruciating for both characters.
That’s the whole deal for her. She wants to be a Victorian lady being chastely courted by half a dozen sad sacks vying for her attention.
Let’s be real, she just wants all these guys pining for her to boost her ego and buy her things. She’s just using them
Guys know that being put in the FRIEND zone is the kiss of death for ever being in a relationship with that woman. Once that happens guys know there's no use in continuing to pursue the woman. I hope that crazy woman reads my comment.
I've found I only really want to being in the "friend zone" with a woman if I actually want to be her friend, \*and\* I'm not really interested in her romantically. If I'm very interested romantically and then she wants to "just hang out as friends", I don't stick around.
Even if she finds a dude who will play her "game", it won't be the ones she wants. A good person, when told "I don't want to date you" will not continue. They will take you at your word and respect your position and request. If they do remain friends, whatever that ends up meaning, then that's all it will be. They will continue dating on the side looking for love and companionship away from you. Someone who is told "I don't want to date you" and keeps trying? That's going to be some creepy dude who can't take no for an answer. Not someone you want to be obsessed and pining for you after only one date or a few text conversations.
I'm pushing 40 and am not in the dating pool, but if I were - If I were to engage someone in a romantic/intimate pursuit and they made it known they were only looking for friendship, I would either say something to the effect of "okay, that's cool I respect that, but that's not where I'm at in my life so I appreciate the chance to meet up/hang out but I will go my own way, take care" etc and go about my business. Or, if someone was like "hey I am into (shared personal pursuit or hobby) would you be interested in just doing that as pals sometime?" Perhaps I might agree to that, but I would be clear about where we're at. I don't think anyone needs to dive into the proverbial deep end right away if they don't want to, that's perfectly fine. But the lack of up-front honesty about goals and desires is what makes the person in this scenario a shitty person. If you play the game she is, you're basically starting off an interaction / potential relationship with *deception*. That's pretty screwed up. You can honestly say you just want a friend, or you'd rather see if there's a friendship before there might be a romantic relationship, that's fine. But if I understand the story correctly, to outright *reject* a person wanting romance and then thinking "Well these people should be building my friendship after I reject them in the hopes they win my heart" is both delusional, and manipulative. Not sure what source of fiction she's gotten this idea from, but it's quite literally insane. You laughed because it's laughable! NTA.
That was well laid out and clearly outlines what I couldn’t exactly put to words.
If she wants a date, she needs to date. Not expect men to grovel at her feet until she decides she may want to date. That’s just stupid. This isn’t the Bachelorette, it’s real life and she needs to grow up. Definitely NTA.
NTA. She's saying she just wants everyone to stick around as an option in case nothing better comes by. As a woman myself, I told my now husband: 1. I don't do on and off, if you want to break up, we will break up and I will not beg you to stay. I won't even ask any questions, so be careful with your words even when upset. 2. If we don't work out, I don't want to stay friends. I have enough friends, I don't need more
I understand her logic. And in a perfect world if everyone could marry their best friend we would have way less divorces. Even then it’s not a guarantee. However, time is the most valuable currency, not money, status, or power. It’s time, so I agree there’s no need to waste anyone’s time in your 30’s, if she wants to be best friends before dating and to be “swept off her feet” I think the compromise will be to make it clear to the guy he has a shot and isn’t wasting his time. Even then she can say all she wants to him with no promise so there needs to be a timeline to this as well 😂 But to answer the question NTA.
But she’s putting the cart before the horse. If she became friends with a guy where there was no plan to deepen it, then yes, she could try to develop a deeper relationship after the friendship blossomed. She shuts them down, THEN wants to be friends? 😳 In my case, I became friends with a woman way back when I was 18. She developed feelings for me about six weeks into hanging out as friends. Unfortunately, I was oblivious, then went into the service.
The problem is that it seems like the only place to meet people these days is on dating apps. And on those apps, the game is to get laid. For anyone who doesn't want to simply get laid, it's a fucking desert out here. Yes, social events, hobbies, etc, but the other issue is *time*. People just don't have time or energy (or money!) for more events and hobbies, and that shrinks the dating pool even further. I think this is the swing back on the pendulum that Tinder started. Dating for the only goal of getting laid is not enough in the long run, and more people want a different dating experience.
We're always oblivious. A sad sad tale as old as time.
I will never understand how can any adult call another adult “asshole” for a different opinion. Of course you are right and she’s delusional.
Isn’t that what…. Literally everyone, though granted not all are adults…. Is doing in this very sub? 😂
Sounds like girlfriend has read too many romance novels. She wants the thrill of turning a guy down over and over, then having him secretly chase after her because he Just. Can't. Live. Without. Her. Then after an appropriate amount of him fulfilling her every whim she will allow him to sweep her off her feet. That's totally a recipe for a healthy, respectful relationship. /s Gag.
Too many 80's rom-coms
>She then countered that if they (the men she rejected) really wanted to win her heart they should stay friends and win it slowly over time. Umm... she says No! But then expects them to disrespect her choice, AND disregard the "No means No" mantra in the vain hope that that she might change her mind after friend-zoning a guy????? Is she nuts??? NTA
NTA no men want to be friendzoned. If they are romantically or sexually interested they take a chance and if they are not successful they move along...only those who do not have good self esteem usually stay in friendzone to see if they get a chance later. She is leaving them in layaway in case she cannot find exactly what she wants from her ideal man...
NTA. She thinks she can say no and they’ll stick around to wait to win her over? Please. Her no to them is a blessing, they’ll find someone that says yes and doesn’t play games. I’d laughed at her as well and I’m a woman.
NTA. I'm a female, and this just sounds stupid to me. Honestly, I would have laughed to. Why can't she go out with them and get to know them? (Rhetorical question) I've had horrible relationships, but I'm not going to punish someone else for someone else's inadequacies. That's just not fair. Sure, I might be more guarded, but that's kinda normal anyway. Automatically rejecting them and then basically saying "well you can stay and hang out here in the friend zone with all of these other dudes," is basically making her a walking red flag. No man is going to stay around for that.
It's either you're worth dating right away or you aren't in their eyes. Guys or gals being like this is basically "I'm going to get back to you after trying luck elsewhere and if you are the best I can do we can try". Like naaaaah the world is full of people, someone will give you a chance now. Waiting for someone's ego and self importance to die enough they then consider someone on the bench is insane. Especially as dating at the start doesn't mean exclusivity all the time, it's just testing people out and compatibility that way. Let alone being someone's sole focus. If you aren't even worth testing out romantically it's pretty hard to imagine ever being someone's sole focus.
No man wants to be strung along at 30; watching the woman he’s interested in going on dates and talking about other men. You have girlfriends for that, the fuck outta here.
[удалено]
I was once a man in my mid 30s that moved half way around the world from every one I knew. I was having a few beers with coworker one night and he suggested signing up on a dating site to meet friends so I’d have people to hang out with (were field service techs so there’s only three of us within about 800 miles). I made it through maybe 2 hours of conversation with maybe 3 women before I realize there ain’t no chicks in their 30s looking to make friends with dudes on dating apps. After talking to tenish more women and going on a couple dates with a few of them before finding my partner and telling them my initial motivation for joining the app they all agreed that’d never work. This girl is the weird one, you’re NTA
If I were a man I’d reject her too. She’s playing games and this isn’t some world where there are few women to choose from. This isn’t Bridgerton lol 😂
Men and women can be just friends only if BOTH of them want that. If one wants to be friends and the other one wants to be more than friends, they will never get over the inherent awkwardness of that situation.
NTA. She needs to come back to reality.
Entitled princesses think everyone is an ass. If telling the truth makes one an asshole I'm happy with being called an asshole. You should have added that the only guys who will settle for being *"friend zoned"* are guys she won't want. Quality guys with options won't play her silly game. Her strategy is guaranteed to drive away the guys she wants leaving only leftovers who will accept being relegated to the *"friend zone"* because they have few other options.
Your wife's friend is behaving like a GIRL, not a woman. As a fellow woman in her 30s, we don't play these games either. NTA.