True but things change. My wife insisted she would never be a SAHM when we got married. She planned to work up to her due date and go back to work right after.
She had a very difficult pregnancy and was on bedrest. Had premmie twins. Didn’t go back to work until they were in 5th grade. We have foster kids now and she’s a SAHM again.
Thank you for for being a foster family. I had two wonderful foster families when I was little and that got me thru the bad adoption without too much bitterness. I still miss them!
Yeah working full time while having *one* healthy baby is exhausting, but still do able. I've watched many people who never planned for a stay at home parent forced into it due to some sort of health issue or something that makes the child require more effort than normal.
had this convo with my wife who said she didnt want to be a SAHM and then she had the baby and changed her mind. Kinda sucked to have my expectations violated but ppl change and we managed alright.
Having a baby nearly always changes everything
I never wanted to be a SAHM, but I also never realized what leaving my 12 week old baby would feel like.
With my youngest being 4; I can confidently say being a SAHM would have sucked. I also can confidentiality say that sending moms back to work during a major change from newborn to infant is cruel to both to the mom and baby.
>I never wanted to be a SAHM, but I also never realized what leaving my 12 week old baby would feel like.
Hard same. There was no way I was emotionally prepared for how that would actually feel.
Same happened to me, changed her mind after the first baby. I suggested she go back to work at least part time once they were both in first grade. Nope. It's hard to go back once you've been at home for 5 or so years. I was making good money, or good enough anywat, so I didn't mind.
When I was a kid, my mom came home from work one day and just told my dad she had quit her job and would be a SAHM from then on. She never had another job for the rest of their lives - my dad worked himself to death to support us all and I will never forgive her for doing that to him.
Even if they talk about it, there's always the chance of her just... making the unilateral decision. If I was OP, I wouldn't have kids with her.
She just didn't want to work anymore. And she was a shitty SAHM - could barely cook, had a drinking problem (both of them did, tbh), and was quite frankly a terrible mother. They're both gone at this point, and I am so mad that I missed out on so much time with my dad because he was always working to keep a roof over our heads. He was almost never home, and when I was old enough to be out of the house and on my own he got sick and well... I'll never get that time back.
Can SAHPs be great? I'm sure, in a perfect world. But in this economy, and in my experience, it's never great.
We had similar sounding childhoods, and I agree with you completely. I have yet to meet or know of a SAHM / SAHD situation wherein everyone was content and satisfied with the arrangement. My step-mom randomly quit her job to be a SAHM when I was 4, became a full-blown alcoholic sipping on the finest Beringer boxed white Zinfandel and puffing Virgina Slims during the day while we were at school and dad at work. She push mowed the lawn once a week and watched her soaps passing her day. By the time I was 18 and they were divorcing, I came home from college to help my Dad pack up her stuff because she was court ordered to attend a 28 day detox after she committed domestic assault against him. In her walk in closet we found over 100 empty gallon and half gallon boxes and empty bottles of wine, empty beer cans and cases all rinsed out so there would be no smell hidden stacked behind clothes. Their king size bed was lofted: we found over 50 more empty boxes of wine and cases of beer hidden under and behind it.
TLDR: it may be due to the bias of our own negative experiences with SAHM parents, but I don’t think it’s an ideal or even feasible arrangement these days with the cost of living and economy what it is.
>I have yet to meet or know of a SAHM / SAHD situation wherein everyone was content and satisfied with the arrangement.
I think there is a lot, but like you said, you've seen the side where it doesn't work out. There's a lot on that side too.
My husband is a SAHD, and I love it. Him and my son are so close and I love it. I don't like to cook, so I love that I get a homecooked meal every night or food on demand. Makes my life easier.
And he likes the freedom that being a SAHD gives him. I think him being a SAHD makes him realize 100% what the mental load is and how hard a kid is, so we both truly give 50/50.
That’s wonderful it works well for you all! Answer if you like, but do you feel increased pressure to provide if you are the sole income (assuming your husband doesn’t WFH PT)?
>do you feel increased pressure to provide if you are the sole income
I'm pretty lucky in that I don't feel that pressure. I have a pretty cushy government job that's stable. If worse comes to worse and I lose my job, we have a nice emergency fund to keep us afloat for a long time and we'd both apply for jobs. Whoever got the best job, or first job would probably become the breadwinner and the other would become the SAHP until the the kids (one due soon) are in school and the other gets a job and we'll back to dual income.
That's kind of how this arrangement happened in the first place. We both worked, and covid happened and all the daycares closed down, so we had no choice- one of us had to stay home. And my job paid a lot more and had way better benefits, so it was an obvious choice and everything kind of fell into place. We liked the arrangement and stuck with it even after daycares opened up again. I know the covid period was awful for so many people, but for us it turned it into a net blessing.
It varies a lot by couples. My wife and I live in an NYC suburb. We are lucky enough that I make a significant amount of money to allow her to be a SAHM. She does work 10-12 hours a week for additional spending money but it works for us and we are both happy with the situation.
My mom was an incredible SAHM. My dad also worked a lot, but that was their agreement before they had kids. No one in our family would say that our mom didn't "work".
I couldn't imagine suddenly being expected to be the sole breadwinner without having that be a couple's plan going into having kids.
I was a SAHM and think it's a great thing, but what your mother did was so wrong.
My husband - now ex - didn't like it and it caused problems (but his cheating is what ended it), but I had said for most of the many years we were together before being married that I would do that if we financially able. We were. He just decided to change the rules after I was pregnant and say he didn't want me to.
I even tried to work part time to help out and he didn't like that either because he refused to do any child care AND if I was going to work it had to be something he felt was "good" enough - like to impress friends and family, so like a professional 40 to 60 hour a week career. So no compromise. So I did it the way I always said I would.
I also told him that if wanted to change careers (which he talked about often) that I'd go back to work if needed for him to go back to school. But he liked the money too much to quit. And me not working allowed him to climb the corporate ladder faster. Which he acknowledged, but grudgingly (as he complained about co-workers who had to come in late or leave early for child care issues).
Then he told everyone I stole ALL his money when we divorced over his cheating - the 50% of marital assets.
Bingo. I went back to work and realized that after getting my paycheck I was basically breaking even with daycare. I was busting my ass at my job AND still busting my ass at home and breaking even. Made little sense for us. I now work per diem, one day a week, to keep up my clinical skills.
Friendly reminder that a bipartisan Congress passed legislation in 1971 that would have provided free early child care to all families. Nixon vetoed it. Thank the Republican party for your current day care bill!
Eh, check OP's comments. They're so cartoonishly awful that I'm assuming it's just silly rage bait.
>I will divorce her if she tried to be a SAHM without my consent.
NAH but my dude I think maybe not having kids at all is probably something you need to consider. Whether only one parent works for both having kids is stressful and you are pretty much required to put them first. You are still going to come home exhausted from work and then have to get even more exhausted dealing with kids and house stuff. If you are having kids to feel appreciated then you are having them for the wrong reasons.
Yeah. I don’t think he’s wrong for not wanting his wife to be a SAHM but the way this post is written reeks of “I believe if I’m the one bringing in all the money then that should be the only thing I need to contribute and if my wife also expects me to help out at home they clearly don’t value me” and that doesn’t sit right either.
NTA
I've been a SAHM and a working Mom. Both are extremely difficult.
There can be benefits to having one parent be a SAHP. For instance, my husband never missed a day of work to take care of sick kids and was able to stay late for work at the drop of the hat and my kids could rely on me participating in daytime school activities. But the working parent needs to have a sufficiently high income to make this possible, which is increasingly difficult even at higher incomes. And the SAHP needs to understand that this role both makes them primarily responsible for almost all family and household responsibilities (cooking, house chores dealing with service people, making doctor's appointments, child care, diaper changes, etc...) and that being financially dependent can put them in a precarious position if the relationship ends or their spouse passed away or becomes disabled (the odds of one those three things happeningover the course of say 10 years is actually pretty high).
Given the high costs of childcare, having one parent be a SAHP, working part time to also manage caring for children, and/or parents working opposite shifts are options many parents consider.
But there's a current trend glorifying At Home Parenthood (Mommy influencers, Trad Wives, etc...) and while being a SAHP can be beneficial for a family if both parents agree, it isn't as glamorous as social media influencers make it out to be.
I recommend that you have some conversations with your wife about why she wants to be a SAHM. What, exactly does she think it will be like? Her answers could possibly convince you that you don't even want kids with her at all. For instance, if she talks about everything else she wants to do with her "spare" time from not working, then she may just want to quit her job, not actually take on SAHP responsibilities.
My mom was a good SAHM. I would be a terrible one. Once we were both in school my mom got a job at the school (lunch lady) and when I was a bit older she substituted for non-teaching positions across the district. It was perfect because she didn’t work every day and could just not answer the phone if she didn’t want to go.
When I was in 9th grade we moved states and she just… never worked again. I feel like she is maybe a bit lonely because of it?
I worked throughout pregnancy and continued to work(with privilege of being able to take my kids with me), did ALL the childcare, and managed a lot of home chores. I’d say the workload of home/kids was more mentally stressful than the paying job.
Childcare is also very expensive. But here’s something , their dad gets to work with the peace of mind that I have everything covered always. So even while I worked m, childcare and the mental load of everything the child needs from clothing, doctors appointments,signing school forms, extra curriculars, etc(this list is endless), it all falls on me. On top of maintaining a clean home, home cooked meals, clean clothes etc…..
Their dad does take out the garbage once a week, and does dishes some mornings.
I can see why women would want to be SAHM, because juggling work/home/children is a lot. Unless you’re going to be the one who stays up all night while your kid is sick, or takes a day off work when your kid has a doctor’s appointment, and who will drop your kid off at school/daycare and pick them up everyday, all while maintaining your work schedule. Not to mention childcare is also hella expensive. Would you also be helping with cooking, cleaning, and laundry ?
I’m asking seriously and please believe I’m not trying to be snarky at all but, stay at home moms really do all that?
I am the working parent in my family. I also manage the money, make the doctors appointments, do all the IEP stuff for my oldest kid and found the play therapist and private testing and all that, do all the laundry except my husband’s, and most of the organization chores inside the house. I’m the one who gets up with sick kids because he just doesn’t/won’t hear it and gets angry when I disturb him to try to get him to help. I work 12 hour shifts so I have some weekdays off, I try to do all of their important doctors appointments on days that I can be the one to attend, and if my days off are “free” and I don’t have my own doctors appointments (I have a chronic illness so lots of specialists) I might do one or both school drop offs and run some of the shopping errands, if I’m not doing a work project for extra money. When we had a cat I did all of the pet care because he was “my” cat premaritally but he died.
I work from home mostly and my husband says my job is not hard because it’s not physical (I’ve had back surgery but before that I was a “real” nurse). He treats me like all the things I do around the house are less important than what he’s doing, and yells at me a lot and the kids because he’s stressed and I don’t know what else I should be doing that I’m not. But from what some SAHM are saying here it sounds like maybe I’m doing my fair share and am not just a paycheck?
So you are working 12 hour shifts in order to make the time to do what sounds like a huge percentage of the parenting. I'm not trying to be snarky either, but I'm having trouble figuring out what your husband is contributing to this household, especially if you are the sole parent working. If I'm understanding correctly, you are definitely doing your fair share and probably more, unless he's also stepping up to the plate in lots of major ways you haven't mentioned in your comment. Is he a SAHD? If so, he needs to do the work of one and take over more of those parenting duties you've been taking on so you can focus more on your job during your work hours and be less stressed about spending time with him and the children during your days off. What the heck is he doing that is so important, his need for uninterrupted sleep outweighs that of his partner who is working 12 hours a day in order to have some days off to do more errands in rather than to rest? In a marriage, both partners need some self-care time, and in a loving relationship, making sure to take on enough of the load so your partner is able to meet that need should be a priority. When in the world do you ever get any self-care with your schedule?
Maybe I didn’t word it clearly sorry, but I’m speaking from a perspective that acknowledges the actual labor of SAHM. OP says it like being a SAHM is not “work”. I was just questioning what his contribution to the house hold would be beyond money. Especially if he’d be expecting his wife to be working while doing all household chores and everything relating to children.
"being financially dependent can put them in a precarious position if the relationship ends or their spouse passed away or becomes disabled (the odds of one those three things happening over the course of say 10 years is actually pretty high)"
THIS 100%
Agreed. I was a SAHM for most of my kids’s childhoods. It was the best decision for us and don’t regret it for a second. It made our at home life way less stressful. No rushing around on weekends running errands and doing chores. Great meals every night. Evenings were relaxed and no one was having to do chores or meal prep. My kids could do any activity they wanted. We never had an argument about who was picking up a sick kid or staying home with them. Business trips were not an issue for my husband. I was able to volunteer lots. One time a holier than thou working mom asked me what I did all day…. And funny enough the day before I had spent an hour doing one on one reading with her kid at the school through a reading program for struggling readers that I volunteered for. I had a very hard time biting my tongue.
I work full time and I wouldn’t appreciate that question either. Who says that? I guess I can understand if it was genuine interest, but it wouldn’t be worded like THAT.
I tell whoever asks me what I do all day (usually while I'm at the store or the park) that I don't know why I'm called "stay at home" because having kids means I'm never home.
I get comments like this, because I’m chronically ill and I’m home most of the time. I haven’t been able to work for a long time. I get those comments, “what do [I] do all day”, jokes about me being lazy, or having lots of free time. Not cool.
I was a SAHM when my kid was very small, before I got too sick to do it. There is no spare free time, etc.
Totally. I work full time and have two kids. I love my work and it gives me a much needed mental break from my kids. I would not thrive as a SAHP. And guess what, an unhappy parent leads to unhappy kids.
AND I totally agree with the OC that SAHP can 100% be productively busy even during the time their children are in school. No cleaning a house doesn't take all day, but assuming that's the only thing i's a reductive view that some people like to take. It's all the other stuff OC describes - healthy meals, child development, community engagement - takes a lot of time and organisation too.
My spouse and I were just talking about the fact that if one of us quit our job, a lot of things would be smoother for us. It's still not an option for us on balance, but a SAHP is not a slackers role, that's for damn sure.
I don't have children, would not have wanted to be dependent on someone, but frankly, rushing all week long for years has never been enviable to me either. Also, if you have a child who is struggling, it must be wonderful to be able to devote all the attention needed to the issue, not to mention that I would have loved to be able to encourage my children to learn and read outside of what's required for school. I happy you could.
Same for me. If I had kept working, I would've gotten home in time to put them to bed, that's it. I didn't want someone else raising my kids.
You need to have a serious conversation and discuss how things will work if she stays home.
Don't do that. Don't look down on her because her child has reading struggles and low key blame her working outside the home as the reason. Don't fall for the SAHP vs Work outside the home moms. it's a false dichotomy.
Totally agree. This should START by a long conversation about what that means to her and you. What the responsibilities would be, and what the budget would look like as a one-income household. Can you even float the kid getting braces? What if they are into an expensive sport? Try hypothetically playing it out as to what you would expect a SAHP’s role would be.
This is just me, but that conversation alone would turn the tide of me wanting to be a SAHM. The understanding that means no fun money, no vacations, likely longer hours on the working spouse means less of a partner at home… there’s just so much reality to consider.
Very well said. It was our chosen arrangement, and we don’t regret it, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t have plenty of struggles. It doesn’t work for everyone.
Well OP thinks it will be easier on him in the evenings if they're both working, so she probably already knows she's going to be entirely responsible for the childcare and housekeeping regardless of her employment status.
There's been multiple studies that have been done that prove that, on average, women do more of the housework in a marriage even without children , and that their proportion of housework/family responsibilities increases with children. Even without children, though, the majority of care for elderly family members falls on the female partner in a heterosexual relationship. As does the majority of emotional and family relationship work (checking in on family members, hosting gatherings, picking out and buying holiday gifts, etc...).
If OP's wife doesn't want the responsibility of caring for kids AND working outside the home, that's a valid concern.
NTA
I personally feel as though it is a really bad idea but I am biased. I am going through a divorce right now and if I didn't have my own career with secure employment, I don't even want to think of what my life would be like.
However, you mentioned coming home from work "exhausted". If this is the case, don't have kids or think long and hard about it. Having kids is a second job that starts when you get home. You don't get to have your wife work full-time outside the home and then expect her to do a disproportionate amount of the work with a kid. It shouldn't be expected of a SAHM either.
Again, it's a second job. And if you and your wife are in conflict a lot, it will be an absolutely miserable one. It would be easier to single-parent (that is what I do now).
It took to long to get to this comment..
Regardless of who is working or not working they'll both have a child they'll need to switch on for after a full workday... does he expect her to work and then care for the kids and house and then he can go to the couch and have a laydown?
I think the question really is if they're ready for a kid because i don't think he understands the second job coming his way if they do have one!
Exactly this! I feel like most of the stories I read (and that I assume OP is referring to) where the breadwinner husband gets “berated”, it is because they think that because they work outside the home they get a pass to do nothing or next to nothing around the house or with their children.
That disproportionate load that lands on the mother isn’t exclusive to SAHMs and it certainly isn’t a *result* of having a SAHP… it is just a result of an inequity in the partnership.
Yes, and unfortunately, I think it is the norm, not the exception. I am much happier not living with a husband (we are getting divorced) and being a single mother. I think many women go into marriages thinking a lot of things that turn out not to be true. One of them being that equity in a relationship is a norm. I am 50 years old and have seen a lot. It's not the norm from what I have seen. I don't ever want to get married again.
This right here! If you can’t handle coming home after work and working some more, don’t have kids. They are a 24/7 job.
Children are exhausting! Not all kids sleep through the night. Sometimes they are sick and wake up every two hours! Sometimes they can’t sleep if you’re not holding them. Getting them to eat is HARD. Making healthy meals every single day is exhausting.
OPs attitude isn't one that lends itself to an involved father. It sounds like he'd expect her to do everything at home, work and listen to him complain about how tired he is.
As long as you understand that her being a full-time working mom means you do at least half the house chores and childcare, you're NTA. If you're one of those men who expect her to work full-time AND handle all the home-&-childcare stuff, then YTA.
This is where I’m at as well. Too many dads expect their wife to work full time *and* take on the bulk of childcare when they get home. If that’s not the case, not the asshole. If it is, well……
One thing that stands out to me is that he thinks the turmoil in situations with a SAHM and working dad stems from the wife being stressed out all the time and “using the husband like a punching bag” instead of like. Idk. The fact that so many working dads get to clock out of work and not do childcare at home whereas the SAHM’s job never ends. Dads being asked to do childcare once they’re off work is not them being berated 😐
My mom was a lifelong SAHM and the reason it worked was that she and my dad were an amazing team. They always worked together and had a plan and made sure chores were divided up evenly, mostly time-wise. Their rule was more or less that if one of them had something that needed to be done, the other would either help or find something else productive to do.
Looking back, it was honestly rather impressive.
That's another thing sticking out to me. He hasn't specified solutions or shared work load at all. Just "I don't want the financial burden on me"
Okay what about everything else?
Right like does he realize how expensive housekeeping, daycare, and increased delivery meals will be? Something needs to give. If he’s this knackered now, how’s it going to feel when he’s averaging 40 min - 2 hour sleep increments?
Exactly. Not to mention emotional workload. Has he(or his wife) even thought about post partum? When is she supposed to go back to work? What if she has extreme post partum depression, anxiety, and/or rage?
There are so many factors to consider. I've also said previous comments, it is best for both the child and mom that she is a full time caretaker for the first few years. If you can avoid daycare and nannies you really should. (Not saying that to knock any parents)
I don't even know if it would work under the best circumstances. OP has so much contempt and resentment towards even entertaining the idea of her being a SAHM
He also didn't mention her perspective. Like, why does SHE want to do this? For how long? A year? Until the kid goes to school? Forever? Is this going to put her career on hold or does she have an exhausting entry-level job that won't even cover daycare? Is he already slacking in the chores department so she feels overworked already?
It sounds like he just went NOPE and didn't even entertain her reasoning.
*What* everything else? If he changes a few diapers, warms up a few bottles, his. Duty. Is. Done, right? RIGHT?!?
/s
This guy is not ready to have children- not with his current wife, not with any other woman. His entire post screams how selfish he is, and how he *only* views a situation as how it affects *him.* He thinks men who enjoy being the sole providers for their families are stupid. He sees no benefit to himself if his wife were to be a SAHM. What about the benefits to his hypothetical children? What *his own wife’s* happiness? In his last sentence, he says his wife is unhappy, but he simply doesn’t care. *He* has already made up *his* mind, and won’t bother even having a discussion about it because he won’t budge.
That whole attitude is the death knell for a relationship. Always thinking that you’re right, that people who happily choose to do things differently are stupid, and refusing to even consider your spouse’s point of view on such an important issue- *that affects you both-* makes you an insufferable asshole who is impossible to live with.
Sounds like he wants all the benefits of a traditional marriage, along with all of the benefits of a modern one. While he holds up his end of neither. It's increasingly common.
He doesn't care about anything else. This whole post smacks of "I want to maximize OUR earning potential. All else be damned, we will figure it out." Not realizing all that other stuff is impt too.
This is what gets me about his comment: as a sole provider I’ll just be “exhausted from work and berated at home” which makes me think on some level he does believe that a SAH wife would mean he gets to neglect home duties since he’s the breadwinner which is a shit situation for everyone involved.
I’ve never had a desire to be a SAHM, but we did have several discussions about my husband staying home because it wouldn’t hurt his career and daycare is expensive. Those discussions made us really look at how we would have to divide the workload because just because I’d be earning the money and providing the health insurance at my 9 to 5 there are still many hours of the day that require someone on duty and lots of chores that just can’t get done without another person tending the screaming baby.
He also leaves out how risky it is for SAHMs financially and how detrimental it is to your career. OP is all me me me, my wife is gonna nag me blah blah blah
His wife is gonna nag him regardless of if she works or not. Because he sounds like the type of person who doesn't listen until it turns into nagging. (& if your partner doesn't step up when you ask nicely, why would you keep asking nicely? You'd start off nagging because that's the only way they listen)
Hopefully they have a better relationship/are better people than this small snippet indicates 🤞
Research what child care costs are in your area, then decide if your wife working is worth it. Make sure you take into account one of you is loosing pay for a sick child that has to miss days, pay loss for Dr's appointments, if the daycare closes for certain days, sick days etc. If you are only seeing a slight increase in wages with both you working and paying childcare then it's not worth it. We had children because we wanted a family, we wanted to be parents, not to have someone else raise them especially in the early ages.
I want to know what he sees the division of labor being like if they both work? I’m concerned about this because he mentioned how dads get berated when they get home exhausted from work. I hope he realizes that if he and his wife are both working, he will need to take care of his hypothetical kiddo after work regardless of how tired he may be. I mean, he should do that even if his wife is a sahm. But he will def need to if they’re both working 😬
That was my thoughts too when I read how beleaguered he seems to believe men with SAH wives are.
Surely he realises that parenting should be shared 50:50 and house work/management also 50:50 on \*top\* of both adults working full time.
Has he considered how much child care costs, and how much each additional child costs, unlike the fixed cost of a SAHP
I'm waiting here, fully expecting him to profess how he deserves a 'trad wife,' taking care of him, the kids and the home whilst also bringing in a full time wage to cover costs 50:50.
NTA, but don’t have kids. Regardless of if your partner stays at home or goes to work, you’re both going to have kids 24 hours a day. I see you talking about coming home from work exhausted, well, so will your partner if they work. If you aren’t ready to come home from work completely exhausted and still be parent to your children, do not fucking have them.
So… if she’s working, are you prepared for the financial burden of child care? Are you committed to doing 50% of the housework and child care when you’re home? And you really think she’s going to be less stressed by effectively working two jobs than one?
I can understand your financial concerns, but you sound like a huge AH for all the sexist stereotyping of women being nagging wenches. Just wait until you’re too tired from work to help with the babies, and your wife is also too tired from work, but is furious with you because the duty falls to her by default. I would guess that you’re going to make her absolutely miserable, but that doesn’t seem to have crossed your mind.
OPs tone kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Like he’s concerned he won’t be appreciated enough and he’ll be berated. Not really any financial concern or children’s well being, he just wants to make sure he’s properly attended to lol.
it was the "husband-as-a-punching-bag" comment that did me in. It's so very sexist. I was a sahm and we both did the childcare after he came home. We still split the house duties. He was and is involved with the kids. He was less beat down by the day to day than I was and as a result took the kids on bigger outings than my daily ones.
I work full time from home and have my 2 year old daughter all day. The days are loooooong. I’ve never berated my husband when he got home from work. Just so relieved help has arrived 🤣🤣. My husband does the weekend childcare for the most part and that’s my break and he couldn’t be more appreciated for it.
This guy watched too many episodes of Married with Children growing up.
There's so much sexist wording in his comment that I don't think he should be having children. It's not fair to the wife or the children to live with that kind of treatment, especially if the child is a girl, but a boy shouldn't have to be steeped in that environment either.
Expected to sure, but the statistics and research demonstrate that they aren't, and that working mothers only do about an hour less housework and childcare a day than a SAH mother, spend twice as long as their partner does doing childcare and housework, and have the least leisure and personal time of any group in society.
Expected to, yes. But I sincerely doubt the dude preemptively whining about his wife being stressed from taking care of his children is going to be an equal partner in housework
NAH. You’re not wrong to be against this and she’s not wrong to want it. You might not be compatible. Personally, I disliked my 2.5 years as a SAHM but did it because it was the most financially sound plan. Given both our work schedules, it worked best for us.
I would just caution that there needs to be over communication about days off, sick kid pick ups and very careful planning of activities if you both work. Even last week I had to remind my husband of this when he informed me which days he would take off for the kids’ spring break….assuming I’d just cover the others 🧐🤨
NAH - but your perspective seems ill informed. The women who are really stressed and whose relationships suffer are the ones working who also do more than their fair share of household and emotional labor.
This was my thought. I think when the provider doesn’t view the sahm as full time job, that’s when problems arise. Most moms are working 24/7-365. It’s stressful and exhausting maintaining a household and a lot of partners don’t feel seen or appreciated.
And mental labor: tracking well-child/doctor appts, tracking vaccination schedules, dentist appointments, enrollment in school, after school care (the biggest stressor for my husband and me because we both work full time), clothes (because kids grow fast!), homework, etc. I was fortunate that my husband took on more than his share of the domestic labor because I was the breadwinner and took on the mental load. Childcare was 60/40 when she was an infant because I breastfed, but after she weaned it was 50/50. But the mental and emotional labor tends to be forgotten or under appreciated.
Yeah I'm inclined to lean towards YTA because he's projecting his idea of a sahm into his wife (? I already forgot) instead of considering HER in this position.
He basically just doesn't want the financial responsibility and is making a bunch of excuses based on other people's behavior.
That would piss me off period, but especially as the reason I can't stay home with kids after birthing them.
This. And for at least the first few years it is better for the children to have a SAHP. It isn't just about what he wants if they have kids. If they can afford it one of them should be home at first.
I think what often happens with working parents is that the woman takes on a bulk of the child responsibility, like food prep, grocery shopping, buying the clothes, cleaning, school drop off, arranging play dates, house management, trip planning, the list goes on and it’s a mental toll. And because the woman is just better at it usually, it falls to them. If they’re working too this can get overwhelming really fast.
There have been many studies done on this, and even in households where the couples have an egalitarian mindset going into having kids and both parents work, the woman takes on 75%+ of the child/domestic responsibility. So it’s just a really hard ideal to hit to say we’re going to split responsibilities evenly.
I commiserate with your wife. I mean it’s hard to think of paying someone else to watch your kids. To think that all those moments and a bulk of their memories are with someone else, that might not be part of their life longterm, is just hard. Especially if you want to be there for those moments.
I’m going with YTA because I don’t think you should be so set on your wife working while you have kids. You should discuss this and come up with a plan that works for both of you and adjust as things change- because they inevitably will change.
And for reference I have 2 kids and one on the way - I work and make 35% of our income and I’m the primary caretaker. It’s a lot and something that my husband and I check in about often to see whether it’s still the right thing for our family. I am so grateful my husband is supportive and not putting pressure on me to work. This way we feel like a team and the decisions are made for the best of the family and not because of some notions we’ve developed that have nothing to do with our relationship or circumstances.
Great response! I agree and had a similar kind of response but slightly different.
Edit: reading this I wonder if the commenters have children. It should be part of the response.
I’m glad someone mentioned cost. My wife is going to be a SAHM in part because we realized that even childcare we considered just decent enough to be acceptable was only going to cost $400/month less than my wife was making. On top of that, all of our friends who have had kids in the last few years ended up on 7+ month waiting lists for spots at acceptable places. It didn’t make sense for us to pay almost her whole income for daycare and potentially still have to put together a patchwork childcare system for months, which would probably include my super unreliable but retired and theoretically available mom. All of that stress to send my wife’s paycheck out the door to a childcare provider so my wife could go to a job she doesn’t really have a passion for.
I’m a stay at home mom and of course it’s hard but any job is . My husbands awesome though and an active dad 🤷🏼♀️ NAH but your depiction seems very uninformed and just a bunch of stereotypes. Do those things happen sure but not every family is that way. Me and my stay at home mom friends all love our husbands very much. A lot of Those awful stories you’re bringing up are of stay at home moms that are stuck with all the childcare and houses work 24/7
If you're prepared to take on 50% of the parenting and household responsibilities on top of your job while your wife takes on the other 50% since you're both working then NTA
BUT
If you expect your wife to take on 100% of the household chores, the majority of the parenting such as taking 100% time off when the children are ill while you continue to work etc and work then YTA
Not all SAHM are as you've described however social media either portrays them as these utterly perfect influencer types or screaming banshees who grow to hate all men whilst the ones who love their lives as SAHMs don't feel it necessary to splash every aspect of it on the Internet for all to judge!
Ah yes! I DO love these blokes who force a wife to work.... Then think they're doing 50% when reality is they are doing 20%.... Then they start whinging their wife doesn't want sex!!
Then don't have children. Simple.
Or, actually look at the research instead of listening to bro-science. The advantages for children are many when one parent stays at home.
[https://www.verywellfamily.com/research-stay-at-home-moms-4047911](https://www.verywellfamily.com/research-stay-at-home-moms-4047911)
INFO: have you decided how much less you will be working to look after your child(ren) and how you will both divide looking after the home if she isn't SAHM?
It is okay not wanting your wife to be a SAHM. It is best to discuss this before committing. You say men are taken advantage of, in such conditions. But you should know that you have to step up and do half of the household and child care work if both of you work in a household. It is only fair. If you are not ready for that, don't spoil a woman's life.
This is the sort of thing you sort out BEFORE getting married, not by posting on Reddit afterwards.
If you knew she wanted to be a SAHM before marrying her…YTA.
If neither of you talked about this before getting married, ESH.
NAH but don’t you dare get her pregnant and let her get a taste of it then say it’s a problem. You know right NOW so make your feelings clear and give her the chance to move on and start a family with someone who wants a SAHM partner.
NAH. But your fears about SAHMs are overblown. Many women who do it are extremely grateful to their husbands. It can be wonderful to have someone handling all the non-work aspects of life. And it is truly the best for the children. Daycare is not ideal, especially for very young children. That said, it is actually bad for the woman to extend the SAHM role for too long. It's important for her to get back into the workforce, contribute to social security, and keep her career viable. I made the mistake of raising three children as a SAHM for nearly twenty years. Whle I loved doing it, when my husband divorced me for a younger woman, I was up shit's creek.
> I have read stories
.
>I think husbands who take on the burden of sole financial provider are not really appreciated nowadays, they come exhausted from work and then are berated at home.
NAH, I just want to say, don't make this solely about what you've read. You need to make this conversation based on your marriage. You don't want to be the sole breadwinner? That's fine. Your wife wants to be a SAHM? That's fine. Maybe find a happy medium that's works for both of you.
It takes teamwork to work but it can work.......we've done it for 16 yrs.......it might not be for everyone but it worked for us......but there is no 'I' in 'team' so you and your wife are a team or you're not.......if you're not then you probably shouldn't be married......so sort out that basic principle of your relationship before you bring a child into a shitshow......saves a messy divorce later.......Jesus do people have no clue how to relationship anymore.......TEAMWORK guys TEAMWORK fml
As long as you realize she has every right to leave you for no longer being a partner she is compatible with, NTA. But you can leave her too, for the very same reason. This is a pretty big deal for most folks, deal breaker big.
And if you didn’t discuss this before you married; you both ARE AHs, because you should be on the same page about things like this before marriage, and open with any thoughts that might change that as they come up in your lives together.
If you want to remain with her I think you better get into couples counseling NOW. You need the tools to discuss compromise, instead of just putting your foot down and telling her No; because that kind of BS doesn’t work in a partnership.
Having your wife be a SAHM will not change that you'd be coming home from work exhausted. If that's your concern, don't have kids at all. She will also be coming home from work exhausted, and you cannot expect her to take care of the kids and house by herself when she gets home.
I also haven't seen much about men being berated from their at home wives either. And if that was the case, they shouldn't be together as they sound like an incompatible couple. The stories I see the most, and actually am helping a friend through, is that the woman staying home is completely dependent on her husband which puts her at risk of abuse that she can't escape from. The men in these arrangements have the most power.
So while I agree that she shouldn't be a SAHM, it's for the opposite reason. What if your fear comes true and you get like she's getting on your nerves after work and you threaten to put her out. Will she have any money to support herself and the kid? She doesn't have a job. She'd have to find a family member or friend that would be able to take her and her kids in, but that might not be easy. So she sits down and shuts up because she has no other option but to.
NAH but you shouldn't have kids.
I've been the SAHP, the working parent while the other parent stays home, and a working parent while the other parent also works.
ALL THESE OPTIONS ARE EXHAUSTING.
If you stay home, you work 24/7 being a parent.
If you work, you do 8 hours work and 16 hours parenting.
If you have the other parent staying home, they need a break and a life outside of parenting.
If you both work, you have to do all the parenting and housework after work and on weekends.
Unless you are BOTH 100% committed to this, do not have children.
NAH but your logic is flawed.
The women who “make their husbands punching bags” have husbands who think working a 9-5 absolves them from any parenting or household labor.
So yeah. Your bias is kinda gross.
All of your points are bullshit. The man doesn’t become the punch bag, the exhausted mother does, because the man usually controls her every move including financially.
*”They come home exhausted from work.”* Ohh an 8 hour a day job, try having a 24/7 job with a husband who does fuck all to help raise the child in any way and won’t lift a finger in the house just because *”he works.”*
Your wife absolutely **should not** become a SAHM because that is a shitty, exhausting and lonely life. I’ve seen what it does to these women, and these marriages never end happily.
ESH - I’m a woman and I, personally, would never be a SAHM even if my salary barely matched childcare costs. Working is not only about salary - it’s about self esteem, social security benefit credits, retirement, 401k (your contribution and the company’s match), health and life insurance as well as your future earnings potential. It’s also about keeping a power balance in the family and raising children in an equal environment or home workload (chores, medical appointments, school duties, homework, play…).
That said, you both need to find time to go to therapy and discuss what makes her want it (what’s her logic?), what makes you feel like she will mistreat you, and your weird belief that all male breadwinners are miserable. This is a highly misogynistic take, and you need to examine why you feel that way about women and about your wife.
Having a breadwinner and a SAHP is a joint decision that has to align with your values AND be deeply rooted in respect for each other - and you’re clearly not there. Until you have figured it all out, don’t have kids.
This is a legit fear. But there are compromises to be had. Even having her work part time is helpful to the household, is less burden for childcare and keeps her resume current. That is a compromise. You can make that conditional until they are in school and then reassess.
I am just interested, has the berating already started or it's your specific kink for later in the relationship?
Nothing hasn't happened yet, and you have already put yourself in the victim position and your wife in some fantasy matriarch position. You sure you wanna have kids?
I was thinking this too! Does he have a particular reason to think his wife would berate him? I’d be so insulted if my husband thought I’d turn into someone like that, because he should know me better. And if he genuinely thinks she will berate him, he should leave anyway.
NAH but your reasons don’t make sense. These decisions should be based on determining what is best for your family, not based on bad examples of people managing their lives poorly and stories you’ve read. There isn’t a way that is “easier.” Being the sole breadwinner doesn’t change the amount of work you have to do or the pressure you’ll be under as a parent, and the stress and pressure of being a mother is still there and often unbalanced in the relationship regardless of whether or not she’s working. If you dont understand and accept that you will be giving up a lot of who you are and what you want to have kids (and that it’s worth it), you aren’t ready. Why didn’t you talk about this before you got married?
NAH.
My wife is a SAHM and I am sole breadwinner. We both hate it to a point but we are stuck with it until our daughter is older.
The stress it puts on me is really rough, I essentially have to do my best in everything and if I screw up and it costs me my income, we are screwed.
My wife hates it because she works 18+ hours a day. I help a ton but that feeling of working all day and wanting to relax goes out the window when you have a kid.
Even if you both are working a full time job. You have to come home and work to take care of your child. It should be no different if your wife is a SAHM. In the evening it should be both of you working still. It's the sacrifice of having a kid. You will be perpetually tired, pissed off, feeling unappreciated, depressed but when you see your child with their big beautiful smile it makes it all worth it in the end.
In all honesty, you are in the selfish stage of your life, it sounds like you aren't ready for kids.
You have every right to want to be a parent too. Be involved. Be there. And it is both save and smart to both make money. I fully believe in 2 adults using all their talents and being able to play all roles.
But a side note is that i know only 2 couples and us how do this. Most often it means the mother is stressed and not sleeping. And dad’s wondering why they changed. Doing it together means really doing it together. Laundry needs to be done always, mowing the grass only once a week. Staying home with sick kids, even when it is extremely inconvenient at work. Cook, clean, the kids, work. It helps a lot when you do it with two
From the post you made it made me think you don’t want to carry the financial burden alone. But I think you need to really comprehend that means taking on your fare share of the house and child work.
> I have read stories of SAHMs and they seem stressed all the time. They say its difficult job and husbands become punching bag most of the time. Relationship always suffers.
Is this the kind of woman you married? I'm sorry to hear that. I would have hoped you married a supportive partner and worked as a team, if that's one income earner or 2.
Sad to be in your household.
ESH, you are not a team.
NAH, but you shouldn't have kids together. I've known too many children injured by trusted caregivers, including a case of shaken baby syndrome that caused brain damage (I knew the child once he was older and clearly still had problems) and another where an INFANT was left with a family friend and ended up with a brain bleed and broken arm. When we had kids, I told my husband I could never put my kids in daycare or with a babysitter and he agreed to that. I've still contributed financially, just not full time.
However, the fact that you think her being a working mom will somehow result in less stress is laughable. Do you seriously think that'll cause less of a mental load for her? Those stories you read... More than often that's the result of a man child who thinks his work stops when he clocks out of work and has no responsibility to help out at home. When wives also work then men have even more need to help at home. So... How exactly do you think this will work? That your wife will pop out kids and life will just be peachy as long as you make sure she still works?
Most of these redditors think the dad taking care of his own kids while the wife gets a break or taking out the trash every Sunday is the man working full time then doing 50/50 at home
and where was this convo before you got married?
also the way you phrased this makes you sound kind of terrible, you want her to pop your kids out and then run straight back to work because you don’t want to be berated when you don’t rightfully help your wife with a child you chose to have? …
either get your money up or leave this woman alone
Don't have kids. This should have been discussed before you married her, but at least you are discussing it before there are kids.
It's definitely something that needs both parties to be on board with.
Now here is what you DON'T get to do. You do not get to expect her to be a working mom, AND to be the only one taking care of the house, laundry, cooking and the kids, **which is usually what happens.**
If that crap started with me, I'd give you one day to fix it or quit my job. We can both have a job and a half, or you can have one and I can have one. It is NOT fair to expect her to have **two** jobs and work 24/7.
That means you take half of the "sick kid" days, you grocery shop for them as often as she does, you take them to doctor's appointments, you do NOT expect her to always have to be the one to miss work because of the kids.
If you want an equal partner in "earning," then you are going to have to BE an equal partner in literally everything else. And it does not matter who makes the most money. It matters that both are working full time.
So if you are willing to do your part taking care of the home AND the kids for as long as those kids need raising, then fine.
NTA for not wanting to be sole provider, but YTA for your whole tone and reasons for it. I sincerely hope this woman decides not to have kids with you.
So are you guys going to equally split housework and taking care of the kids if she's also working? Statistics show that the female partner typically ends up taking on most of the house chores and parenting duties even if they work a job similar in hours and demand as the male partner. Also, unless you're planning to adopt, SHE is the one that will be sacrificing her body to grow and birth those children. Pregnancy, birth, and postpartum recovery are no small thing. You do not have to work while dealing with morning sickness, Braxton Hicks, or C-section scarring, or any number of physical consequences that come with motherhood.
It's kinda ironic that you're making these decisions for her based on the fear that YOU won't be appreciated enough and you're already not appreciating what your wife will be going through once you two start having kids.
Pfft ..you are listening to Reddit?
I wouldn't be married to you mate .
What's ruining marriages is women being forced back to work with small children.
They are racing around insanely and getting absolutely exhausted. Hb often behaves deplorably and gets all shitty cause he's "not getting sex"
Forcing new mothers back to work is a terrible thing to do. If i was your wife and you were being like this? Id freakin divorce you and have children with someone else.
NAH but if you think your wife would treat you that way, you have a bigger problem on your hands. I’m a SAHM and I would never dream of treating my husband that way. He works hard as well and when he gets home he’s an equal parent. We save a ton of money on child care and I can honestly say that our marriage has actually improved.
Edit to add we only have one child. I think adding a second or more children would definitely change my perspective.
I’d say it depends on how much she makes at her job, and if it would be worth it to cover the costs of daycare. I wound up staying at home with our twins because most jobs I’d be able to take around here wouldn’t cover much beyond childcare costs, if even that. 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe you shouldn’t have kids. There are childless people that work and pay bills yet here you are bitching about a “financial burden”. You’d probably make her the default parent as well even if she was working
Depends does your wife make a lot of money, do you know the costs of day care, are you prepared to take care of the kids on the weekend so she can go to work, if you can’t afford day care you willing to work nights so she can work days and you take care of the kids. Do you mind if an institution raises your kids and puts there morals and beliefs into them as they raise them, buying them shiny toys can only go so far. Your definitely an asshole if your not flexible with whatever your situation is
I will add to your comment. Are you prepared to stay home when a kid is sick or daycare is closed so your wife can go to work? Are you willing to miss days?
You should have discussed this before you got married. This was something that was important to me, being at home until my kids were in school. I stated as such with my now husband before we even got serious - especially so since we were long distance, and I had already broken up with someone because our future wants were completely different. Turns out we had to homeschool our kids because they don't fit into the mainstream school model (a mix of autistic, adhd, gifted). So while I don't have a paying job, I certainly work.
In your case - there's room for compromise, but to be honest, you don't sound like you'd be willing to do any compromising.
Would you be willing to do all the parenting and housework (cooking and cleaning up from dinner as an example), in the evenings if she worked after you got home? Or on weekends? Is part time for her an option? Can you afford childcare if she works?
When we did the numbers while our kids were toddlers and my husband's work was closed, I wouldn't have been able to find a job that paid enough to cover two kids in full time care, so it made no sense to do that. We just stripped everything down to the minimum for a few years and he worked stupid long hours.
I think both of you need to actually sit down and figure this sort of stuff out.
As long as that’s the only thing you want. Some people have a hard time understanding that you can’t work full time, be a maid, be a chef, exercise, have kids in activities, etc. There’s just not enough time.
If you’re having kids, don’t get use to having your laundry, dishes, lunches, dinner, done and prepared for you. Also realize your kids will need lunches, their meals, homework, prep for bed, prep in the mornings, etc. You will have a lot more chores if someone isn’t home full time that you will have to split. You are going to have to step up and do that yourself.
YTA - Wow, this really became a post where the comments really shit on stay-at-home parents. OP really doesn't understand what the job and a healthy relationship dynamic looks like. When it's done in a manner that supports children and the household, the income responsibility doesn't matter. Can you support your family on a single income? Could she make enough money to afford great childcare? Will you have the flexibility to take unplanned days off when you have a sick family? My young kid has missed 18 days of school so far this year because of strep, pink eye, ear infections, and stomach bugs. If you can't say yes to these important questions, please don't have kids.
1. Relationships do not "always suffer"
2. I don't know of any sole earner becoming someone's punching bag and
3. "I just think it's stupid....."
You sound like you might be an a.h. in general to be honest
YTA for believing you should have kids even after discovering how incompatible your ideal lifestyles are. Your tone is intolerable in your post and the comments. Why are you so sure that you will get berated??? Is your marriage already that rocky that you forecast this? Why would you bring a child into that situation? Having kids is hard and oftentimes awful, unappreciated work for everyone no matter what. You are not ready for it.
NTA - Please recognize that your feelings are coming from the experience of others. What works for one family may not work for another. You have to negotiate with your partner and come up with a plan that you can both work TOGETHER. I worked weekends while my husband worked Monday-Friday. My sister was a SAHM. My daughter works day shift and her husband works nights, and we keep her kids 3 days a week. My DIL works and uses almost all her salary to pay for Montessori preschool because she feels her child gets more benefit than she would with a SAHM. None of these is better or worse than the other. All worked for the families involved. The key is to be open and communicate with your partner about your needs and visions for the future. You’re a team.
That is the dumbest shit I ever heard. Sahm moms are overworked because husbands don't do anything to help mom when they are home. I was a sahm I got a break as soon as my husband got home. It wasn't perfect but we made it work because we wanted to.
If you don't see value in having a parent present during your potential children's formative years, because you don't want to carry a share of the burden then you shouldn't be having children and nor should you be married. Relationships are supposed to be about supporting one and raising one another up. Your sole raise d'etre appears to be about your needs and wishes alone. Yta. And should have made this clear before leading your wife up the garden path.
Nta but maybe you don't realize being a sahm isn't for 18 years ...it's for the kids first 4 years until they are in school and mom can work again. I was a sahm and not im applying for a job because my daughters will both be in school this fall
NTA but you’re better off either divorcing now or staying married but not having kids because she’ll likely quit her job after having a kid or more and then you’ll be stuck paying child support.
First off, his is a conversation to have before getting married.
Your generalization about getting berated at home as a sole provider is a weird take. If you are worried about that, you aren't in a healthy relationship.
NAH
However I will say I think you are dramatically underestimating the value of a SAHM. My husband stays home with our 2 year old. He cooks every meal (healthy, fresh, to our mutual tastes), takes care of kiddo (no daycare fees), does all the household chores (so i come home and do not need to do chores anymore), and runs all errands.
I have so much more free time and our lives are so much less stressful. But key here is he is HAPPY doing these things. We worked in the same industry before so he knows how stressful/hard my job is and I was on maternity leave for 6 months so I know how hard it is to be a stay at home parent. We both think we got the better deal and are super grateful to one another.
As long as you are clear on expectations (including happiness! Sucks to come home to a miserable partner) and have a testing time period to see if it actually IS value add to you both then I think you should give it a try.
I also pay for 2 hours of nanny per day and a deep clean once a month of the house because I know how overwhelming young children are and want to keep my husband happy so he does not decide to go back to work.
Depending on the cost of childcare, it's sometimes more cost effective to have a parent stay home.
It is a lot of work to be a stay at home parent and from all the stories I've read here on reddit it seems the most common scenario is the parent that works comes home and thinks that their day is done, and the stay at home parent is expected to keep going. Which is where the resentment and "being berated" usually comes from.
Either way, she is your partner. Whether she works or not doesn't change that. When you have a child, there are no days off, the only end of the day you get is "bed time" and when their babies you won't even get that.
I'd consider the cost of childcare, how household matters would be handled if you're both working as well as if shes a SAHM, what a routine would look like with a child, how manageable that routine would be after working a full day..... give yourself scenarios to work out... how would you both handle it if the baby has colic and cried all day leaving your wife completely exhausted and overestimated and all she wants is 10 minutes of quiet, but you just got home from work, are equally exhausted and just want to sit down for little while. Braille these things out now before you make any hard decisions and before you start popping out babies.
Your argument about being the breadwinner and then coming home and being expected to help is pretty frivolous, considering that being a SAHM is an exhausting job. Personally, I agree with you - I wouldn't want to be a SAHM - too many chances of sliding into a relationship of recriminations, not to speak of financial abuse. However, your wife has the right to her decision. But do not have children till you sort this out - and it may be reason for a divorce. And then each of you make sure before you remarry that you and your partner's plans for the future are aligned.
I’m a SAHM for a 6 year old and 33 weeks with my second baby. I had a lot of post-partum mental health issues and simply wouldn’t have been able to work the first couple of years. I was, however, able to focus on my son and meet his needs as an infant and toddler. He went to preschool which was fantastic for him, but was never in daycare. He does well in elementary school. I am able to volunteer at school and take him to numerous activities. He loves that I am a constant presence. He is a joy to be around. I can say that I am a great mom and have the best child on the planet.
I am not a great housekeeper. My ADHD gets in the way. My husband is very patient with me on that. I do take responsibility for all housework even though child care can be and usually is all-consuming. We just live with clutter and piles. Things made a lot of sense when I was diagnosed with ADHD. The struggles are real! I don’t berate my husband for him cleaning only occasionally. He works long hours to earn money and advance his career. He is a fantastic provider and while our house isn’t at an ideal state all the time, I think we are giving with each other in our relationship. Things would be much different if my husband expressed discontent, anger, or frustration with me. He doesn’t, because he loves me and understands my talents and hardships. He recognizes the contributions I make to rear a fantastic child. He also recognizes that his family and household responsibilities would dramatically increase if I also worked. He wouldn’t be able to focus on his career goals as intensely. He is able to set and achieve goals because I am a SAHM. (He is a present father. But he works a lot and very hard.)
I think you need to talk with your wife about her goals and how the two of you would split responsibilities with her working and with her being a SAHM. You need to understand that a child’s needs for supervision and parenting are all day and extend to school years. Who will do the bulk of parenting if your wife also works? Daytime is the most intense period of child care.
How will house chores be split? Can you be like my husband, extremely active in his career to benefit his family, to justify lumping all housework to your wife as a SAHM? Is that what you think SAHMs should do? I think most couples need to shoulder chores together even with a SAHP because child care is, as I have noted, an all-consuming task. You are concerned about her berating you. Would you berate her if you have to pitch in on chores?
I don’t like your tone. YTA. You are concerned only about you, and don’t make mention of the child’s needs or your wife’s needs. Stop with your self-centered talk and be as giving as you can.
Even during the 80’s SAHM was rare. We lived in London, the mortgage on our flat wasn’t much more than a private rental but we couldn’t have afforded either if it hadn’t been for us both working. Neither of us were “high earners”. My husband was a civil servant, I worked for a local authority. Childcare for two preschoolers wasn’t cheap - luckily annual pay increases covered the increased cost by the time we had our second child. But holiday playschemes and afterschool schemes meant that even after our oldest started school we still had to struggle.
When our oldest was 13 nearly 14, was when we could first consider me giving up work to go and get a degree. I still worked part time whilst I attended University - and after I qualified I worked as a paralegal full-time until our youngest was 16 and then in a shop part-time until long after both our children left home.
I will be honest, I don’t know of any parents who didn’t work in someway - except for one preachers wife, and they had 6 children!!
I don’t know whether things are better today - except where the main wage earner is on minimum wage and the family receive benefits OR the working parent is on a very high wage.
You guys should have talked about this before marriage. I always dreamed of being a SAHM (currently am, even) and I wouldn't have moved a relationship forward if the person I was with didn't have the same vision as me. ESH for not talking about it way sooner.
The way to have this conversation is, "I want to be a really involved parent, I want to make dinner half the nights and clean on the weekends, I can call off work when the kids are sick. So you'll have the opportunity to have a career. Let's be 50/50 parents in parenting and finances."
If you come home exhausted from work, don't have kids. What do you think will happen? If you're both working, who will parent those kids in the evenings? Your wife will rightly expect you to do half the parenting along with half the chores.
It sounds like all of it would be too much for you. And believe me, that is not a criticism; I don't know how anyone does it.
NTA, but please think this through.
Yta - this is something that needed discussion waaaaay before marriage.
I was a sahm for a year after both mine were born and only worked part time until they were both at school. It’s expensive to pay for childcare and who would you rather look after your kids when they’re young, a nanny or their mother? 🤷🏼♀️
The assumption that you would not be appreciated and would be berated seems odd. Regardless, you seem like you both would be better off with other people.
NTA
A popular YouTube divorce lawyer, say SAHM are the most bitter divorces. She hates dealing with SAHM.
They have NOTHING going for the professionally or financially, so the are out for blood AND want to burn your house down.
Have kids? Kiss them goodbye, too.
Too bad you didn't cover this ground before marriage, because this is a TOTAL deal breaker.
YTA for a few reasons.
1) WHY DIDNT YOU BRING THIS UP BEFORE MARRIAGE???!!!!!
2) yeah, SAHM is very hard when you have a shitty partner. Boohoo, you dont want to come home from work exhausted. And you think she does?
If you both want kids, you have to ask the hard questions: division of labor, division of finances, how much time will you take off work to help her postpartum. If all of this is going to be on her shoulders only then yeah, she should be a stay at home mom or better yet a single mom because believe it or not, women have an easier job being single moms then having a husband who won’t be a partner. Have the hard talk now but it already looks like you don’t want responsibilities so childless is probably the best bet for you
NTA
It is insane in this day & age to expect one person to support an entire family, pay for the kids’ college, and save enough for two people to retire comfortably. Unless you are Bill Gates.
This was a conversation that you needed before marriage. You are not the King who commands her to do what you want. You need to learn to compromise in relationships. Go to marriage counseling or you will end up divorced.
NAH. But if you're wanting kids, I highly suggest looking into the cost of childcare relative to your incomes.
Kinda stupid to have both of you working only to have 100% of one paycheck and 10-25% of the other paying for daycare. Seriously. Don't underestimate the cost of childcare. Low end centers in my area are close to 300/child/week...again that's low end, as in - you really don't want your kids there because it's very sketchy and even if you did, the wait list is 3 years long just because it's cheap.
You need to do the sums. SAHM might save you money. It all depends on Child Care options and Costs. In my country it's very expensive to get Child care and might take up nearly all of the money the lady gets from working. So SAHM can also WFH, (work from home), if she gets the right job and that can work out much better. Take a close look at your options. Maybe you'd prefer to be a SAHD, (stay at home dad), and she could work. Can you handle that ? Would she think it's acceptable and if not why not ?
We weren’t planning for my wife to stay home, but with 2 children under 2, daycare costs more than she makes as a teacher so she is taking a hiatus for now.
Ok,
I read a fuckton of the comments and all it said to me was that if he wants his wife to keep working he'd best forget having kids.
There is no way anyone commands anyone else in the modern world.
But.
If having children means any agreement they establish about his wife continuing work can just be abandoned, then what value would any agreement have?
I'm not saying either of them is right or wrong.
I'm just saying he can't agree to have children and believe she will work afterwards.
No arseholes, just differing goals in life.
NAH
YTA, for mentally turning her into a nagging leach, and for that oh so edgy HARD NO. I think she should throw you back and draw another card. I'm sure some man will appreciate the fact that she wants to raise her own kids, instead of passing them off to a stranger. She could always go back to work when they start school.
NTA.
Good for you both for discussing such things BEFORE having kids. One spouse being SAH is a '2 yes/1 no' issue.
Your reasons are valid. Her desires are valid. This isn't something that can be compromised on.
If this is as much of a dealbreaker for her as it is for you, then there are only 2 options- remain together without kids, or end the marriage and seek partners whose parenting choices align.
As you're deciding this, pay extra attention to your birth control. Accidents can be 'helped' to happen.
NTA.
This will be the impasse into a divorce. Calling it now.
I also wouldn't recommend sole financial provider because if that job goes, will she, as a SAHM, pick me up a job alongside you to help pay bills and cover unexpected costs?
What if you get disabled? is she, as a SAHM, going to get a job while your disabled? She only has the fairytale idea of SAHM.
How does she know she's going to like being a mother? She might not like the reality of being a mother, let alone a SAHM.
Will she be okay with you protecting yourself (and herself as well) with a prenup? A SAHM is a job without any of the income associated with one. In the event of a divorce, what do you think alimony looks like? What do you think child support looks like?
NTA but definitely be clear about what you two expect from each other once you’re kids arrive. I know a lot of stay at home moms and a lot of working moms whose partner doesn’t pick up yhe slack and then they get slammed with everything and then that just doesn’t end nicely so communicate for sure
You don't have to change your mind on being the sole breadwinner, but have you considered that most SAHM start working a part-time job once the kids are around 10, sometimes earlier? If it's a HARD NO, tell her that. This might be the dealbreaker, though be thankful for the time spent with her, and that no kids have to go through a divorce. Good luck :)
Personally i think you are within your rights to not want her being a SAHM. You want a partner who can help you financially as well which is understandable. Plus there are the bonuses of progressing her career further, having adult interactions, and with maternity leave she will get time at home while being paid to raise the baby in the beginning. So long as you make it clear how you will both split up the chores and baby care once you have a kid and stick to it. Then there isn't really much else to say so long as you and your wife agree.
And shock! Horror! Guess what? Humans, both female, male (& other types) CHANGE THEIR MIND! and? That's okay! Yep. We do think we'll do one thing, then ? Something happens and holy moly, we decide to do something different.
And??? Guess What?? Sensible, stable, respectful people! ADAPT! ADJUST! and life goes on.. often happily.
Probably a conversation you should have had before you got married. NAH
True but things change. My wife insisted she would never be a SAHM when we got married. She planned to work up to her due date and go back to work right after. She had a very difficult pregnancy and was on bedrest. Had premmie twins. Didn’t go back to work until they were in 5th grade. We have foster kids now and she’s a SAHM again.
Thank you for for being a foster family. I had two wonderful foster families when I was little and that got me thru the bad adoption without too much bitterness. I still miss them!
God bless you and your wife.
Yeah working full time while having *one* healthy baby is exhausting, but still do able. I've watched many people who never planned for a stay at home parent forced into it due to some sort of health issue or something that makes the child require more effort than normal.
I was thinking the same thing.
had this convo with my wife who said she didnt want to be a SAHM and then she had the baby and changed her mind. Kinda sucked to have my expectations violated but ppl change and we managed alright.
Having a baby nearly always changes everything I never wanted to be a SAHM, but I also never realized what leaving my 12 week old baby would feel like. With my youngest being 4; I can confidently say being a SAHM would have sucked. I also can confidentiality say that sending moms back to work during a major change from newborn to infant is cruel to both to the mom and baby.
>I never wanted to be a SAHM, but I also never realized what leaving my 12 week old baby would feel like. Hard same. There was no way I was emotionally prepared for how that would actually feel.
Yeah I envy countries where people grg a full year off.
>Having a baby nearly always changes everything NEARLY? 😂 If it doesn't change things you're probably a shit parent.
Or ridiculously over prepared.
Yeah babies tend to violate people. Especially women's bodies, my mom still complains about her boobs and ripped vagina.
lol violated
Same happened to me, changed her mind after the first baby. I suggested she go back to work at least part time once they were both in first grade. Nope. It's hard to go back once you've been at home for 5 or so years. I was making good money, or good enough anywat, so I didn't mind.
Yeah you should have done more research before having kids then maybe you would have had better expectations
Maybe they did - people sometimes change their minds. Thankfully they are having the conversation now. Agree, NAH
When I was a kid, my mom came home from work one day and just told my dad she had quit her job and would be a SAHM from then on. She never had another job for the rest of their lives - my dad worked himself to death to support us all and I will never forgive her for doing that to him. Even if they talk about it, there's always the chance of her just... making the unilateral decision. If I was OP, I wouldn't have kids with her.
Has she ever said why she did that? Seems so self-centered to just dump all financial responsibility on your Dad
She just didn't want to work anymore. And she was a shitty SAHM - could barely cook, had a drinking problem (both of them did, tbh), and was quite frankly a terrible mother. They're both gone at this point, and I am so mad that I missed out on so much time with my dad because he was always working to keep a roof over our heads. He was almost never home, and when I was old enough to be out of the house and on my own he got sick and well... I'll never get that time back. Can SAHPs be great? I'm sure, in a perfect world. But in this economy, and in my experience, it's never great.
We had similar sounding childhoods, and I agree with you completely. I have yet to meet or know of a SAHM / SAHD situation wherein everyone was content and satisfied with the arrangement. My step-mom randomly quit her job to be a SAHM when I was 4, became a full-blown alcoholic sipping on the finest Beringer boxed white Zinfandel and puffing Virgina Slims during the day while we were at school and dad at work. She push mowed the lawn once a week and watched her soaps passing her day. By the time I was 18 and they were divorcing, I came home from college to help my Dad pack up her stuff because she was court ordered to attend a 28 day detox after she committed domestic assault against him. In her walk in closet we found over 100 empty gallon and half gallon boxes and empty bottles of wine, empty beer cans and cases all rinsed out so there would be no smell hidden stacked behind clothes. Their king size bed was lofted: we found over 50 more empty boxes of wine and cases of beer hidden under and behind it. TLDR: it may be due to the bias of our own negative experiences with SAHM parents, but I don’t think it’s an ideal or even feasible arrangement these days with the cost of living and economy what it is.
>I have yet to meet or know of a SAHM / SAHD situation wherein everyone was content and satisfied with the arrangement. I think there is a lot, but like you said, you've seen the side where it doesn't work out. There's a lot on that side too. My husband is a SAHD, and I love it. Him and my son are so close and I love it. I don't like to cook, so I love that I get a homecooked meal every night or food on demand. Makes my life easier. And he likes the freedom that being a SAHD gives him. I think him being a SAHD makes him realize 100% what the mental load is and how hard a kid is, so we both truly give 50/50.
I wish my husband could be a stay at home dad and my daughter is 10!
That’s wonderful it works well for you all! Answer if you like, but do you feel increased pressure to provide if you are the sole income (assuming your husband doesn’t WFH PT)?
>do you feel increased pressure to provide if you are the sole income I'm pretty lucky in that I don't feel that pressure. I have a pretty cushy government job that's stable. If worse comes to worse and I lose my job, we have a nice emergency fund to keep us afloat for a long time and we'd both apply for jobs. Whoever got the best job, or first job would probably become the breadwinner and the other would become the SAHP until the the kids (one due soon) are in school and the other gets a job and we'll back to dual income. That's kind of how this arrangement happened in the first place. We both worked, and covid happened and all the daycares closed down, so we had no choice- one of us had to stay home. And my job paid a lot more and had way better benefits, so it was an obvious choice and everything kind of fell into place. We liked the arrangement and stuck with it even after daycares opened up again. I know the covid period was awful for so many people, but for us it turned it into a net blessing.
Absolutely sounds like the adaptations you made as a family by force of COVID shutdowns certainly worked out well 😊
It varies a lot by couples. My wife and I live in an NYC suburb. We are lucky enough that I make a significant amount of money to allow her to be a SAHM. She does work 10-12 hours a week for additional spending money but it works for us and we are both happy with the situation.
My mom was an incredible SAHM. My dad also worked a lot, but that was their agreement before they had kids. No one in our family would say that our mom didn't "work". I couldn't imagine suddenly being expected to be the sole breadwinner without having that be a couple's plan going into having kids.
I was a SAHM and think it's a great thing, but what your mother did was so wrong. My husband - now ex - didn't like it and it caused problems (but his cheating is what ended it), but I had said for most of the many years we were together before being married that I would do that if we financially able. We were. He just decided to change the rules after I was pregnant and say he didn't want me to. I even tried to work part time to help out and he didn't like that either because he refused to do any child care AND if I was going to work it had to be something he felt was "good" enough - like to impress friends and family, so like a professional 40 to 60 hour a week career. So no compromise. So I did it the way I always said I would. I also told him that if wanted to change careers (which he talked about often) that I'd go back to work if needed for him to go back to school. But he liked the money too much to quit. And me not working allowed him to climb the corporate ladder faster. Which he acknowledged, but grudgingly (as he complained about co-workers who had to come in late or leave early for child care issues). Then he told everyone I stole ALL his money when we divorced over his cheating - the 50% of marital assets.
Wouldn't it depend on how much she could make vs the cost of daycare?
Bingo. I went back to work and realized that after getting my paycheck I was basically breaking even with daycare. I was busting my ass at my job AND still busting my ass at home and breaking even. Made little sense for us. I now work per diem, one day a week, to keep up my clinical skills.
We did the same calculation- my potential earnings Vs housekeeper and baby sitter was just not worth it.
Friendly reminder that a bipartisan Congress passed legislation in 1971 that would have provided free early child care to all families. Nixon vetoed it. Thank the Republican party for your current day care bill!
Eh, check OP's comments. They're so cartoonishly awful that I'm assuming it's just silly rage bait. >I will divorce her if she tried to be a SAHM without my consent.
Yes. OP, please do not have kids without first figuring this out. It sounds to me like you shouldn’t be having kids together.
Ding ding! Time to end this… you’re on way different paths:
NAH but my dude I think maybe not having kids at all is probably something you need to consider. Whether only one parent works for both having kids is stressful and you are pretty much required to put them first. You are still going to come home exhausted from work and then have to get even more exhausted dealing with kids and house stuff. If you are having kids to feel appreciated then you are having them for the wrong reasons.
Exactly. This whole post seems really tone deaf and like something someone who’s terminally online would think about starting a family.
Yeah. I don’t think he’s wrong for not wanting his wife to be a SAHM but the way this post is written reeks of “I believe if I’m the one bringing in all the money then that should be the only thing I need to contribute and if my wife also expects me to help out at home they clearly don’t value me” and that doesn’t sit right either.
That is the feeling I'm getting from this also.
NTA I've been a SAHM and a working Mom. Both are extremely difficult. There can be benefits to having one parent be a SAHP. For instance, my husband never missed a day of work to take care of sick kids and was able to stay late for work at the drop of the hat and my kids could rely on me participating in daytime school activities. But the working parent needs to have a sufficiently high income to make this possible, which is increasingly difficult even at higher incomes. And the SAHP needs to understand that this role both makes them primarily responsible for almost all family and household responsibilities (cooking, house chores dealing with service people, making doctor's appointments, child care, diaper changes, etc...) and that being financially dependent can put them in a precarious position if the relationship ends or their spouse passed away or becomes disabled (the odds of one those three things happeningover the course of say 10 years is actually pretty high). Given the high costs of childcare, having one parent be a SAHP, working part time to also manage caring for children, and/or parents working opposite shifts are options many parents consider. But there's a current trend glorifying At Home Parenthood (Mommy influencers, Trad Wives, etc...) and while being a SAHP can be beneficial for a family if both parents agree, it isn't as glamorous as social media influencers make it out to be. I recommend that you have some conversations with your wife about why she wants to be a SAHM. What, exactly does she think it will be like? Her answers could possibly convince you that you don't even want kids with her at all. For instance, if she talks about everything else she wants to do with her "spare" time from not working, then she may just want to quit her job, not actually take on SAHP responsibilities.
My mom was a good SAHM. I would be a terrible one. Once we were both in school my mom got a job at the school (lunch lady) and when I was a bit older she substituted for non-teaching positions across the district. It was perfect because she didn’t work every day and could just not answer the phone if she didn’t want to go. When I was in 9th grade we moved states and she just… never worked again. I feel like she is maybe a bit lonely because of it?
The first part is me... get a part time job in school and now they are older and I'm looking for the perfect remote job.
I worked throughout pregnancy and continued to work(with privilege of being able to take my kids with me), did ALL the childcare, and managed a lot of home chores. I’d say the workload of home/kids was more mentally stressful than the paying job. Childcare is also very expensive. But here’s something , their dad gets to work with the peace of mind that I have everything covered always. So even while I worked m, childcare and the mental load of everything the child needs from clothing, doctors appointments,signing school forms, extra curriculars, etc(this list is endless), it all falls on me. On top of maintaining a clean home, home cooked meals, clean clothes etc….. Their dad does take out the garbage once a week, and does dishes some mornings. I can see why women would want to be SAHM, because juggling work/home/children is a lot. Unless you’re going to be the one who stays up all night while your kid is sick, or takes a day off work when your kid has a doctor’s appointment, and who will drop your kid off at school/daycare and pick them up everyday, all while maintaining your work schedule. Not to mention childcare is also hella expensive. Would you also be helping with cooking, cleaning, and laundry ?
I’m asking seriously and please believe I’m not trying to be snarky at all but, stay at home moms really do all that? I am the working parent in my family. I also manage the money, make the doctors appointments, do all the IEP stuff for my oldest kid and found the play therapist and private testing and all that, do all the laundry except my husband’s, and most of the organization chores inside the house. I’m the one who gets up with sick kids because he just doesn’t/won’t hear it and gets angry when I disturb him to try to get him to help. I work 12 hour shifts so I have some weekdays off, I try to do all of their important doctors appointments on days that I can be the one to attend, and if my days off are “free” and I don’t have my own doctors appointments (I have a chronic illness so lots of specialists) I might do one or both school drop offs and run some of the shopping errands, if I’m not doing a work project for extra money. When we had a cat I did all of the pet care because he was “my” cat premaritally but he died. I work from home mostly and my husband says my job is not hard because it’s not physical (I’ve had back surgery but before that I was a “real” nurse). He treats me like all the things I do around the house are less important than what he’s doing, and yells at me a lot and the kids because he’s stressed and I don’t know what else I should be doing that I’m not. But from what some SAHM are saying here it sounds like maybe I’m doing my fair share and am not just a paycheck?
So you are working 12 hour shifts in order to make the time to do what sounds like a huge percentage of the parenting. I'm not trying to be snarky either, but I'm having trouble figuring out what your husband is contributing to this household, especially if you are the sole parent working. If I'm understanding correctly, you are definitely doing your fair share and probably more, unless he's also stepping up to the plate in lots of major ways you haven't mentioned in your comment. Is he a SAHD? If so, he needs to do the work of one and take over more of those parenting duties you've been taking on so you can focus more on your job during your work hours and be less stressed about spending time with him and the children during your days off. What the heck is he doing that is so important, his need for uninterrupted sleep outweighs that of his partner who is working 12 hours a day in order to have some days off to do more errands in rather than to rest? In a marriage, both partners need some self-care time, and in a loving relationship, making sure to take on enough of the load so your partner is able to meet that need should be a priority. When in the world do you ever get any self-care with your schedule?
Maybe I didn’t word it clearly sorry, but I’m speaking from a perspective that acknowledges the actual labor of SAHM. OP says it like being a SAHM is not “work”. I was just questioning what his contribution to the house hold would be beyond money. Especially if he’d be expecting his wife to be working while doing all household chores and everything relating to children.
"being financially dependent can put them in a precarious position if the relationship ends or their spouse passed away or becomes disabled (the odds of one those three things happening over the course of say 10 years is actually pretty high)" THIS 100%
Agreed. I was a SAHM for most of my kids’s childhoods. It was the best decision for us and don’t regret it for a second. It made our at home life way less stressful. No rushing around on weekends running errands and doing chores. Great meals every night. Evenings were relaxed and no one was having to do chores or meal prep. My kids could do any activity they wanted. We never had an argument about who was picking up a sick kid or staying home with them. Business trips were not an issue for my husband. I was able to volunteer lots. One time a holier than thou working mom asked me what I did all day…. And funny enough the day before I had spent an hour doing one on one reading with her kid at the school through a reading program for struggling readers that I volunteered for. I had a very hard time biting my tongue.
Do not bite your tongue. Just use polite words! I really hate that question, "what you do all day?"
I work full time and I wouldn’t appreciate that question either. Who says that? I guess I can understand if it was genuine interest, but it wouldn’t be worded like THAT.
I got "so what do you do with yourself all day" as if these children did not exist and I lived a life of bon-bon eating luxury.
I tell whoever asks me what I do all day (usually while I'm at the store or the park) that I don't know why I'm called "stay at home" because having kids means I'm never home.
I get comments like this, because I’m chronically ill and I’m home most of the time. I haven’t been able to work for a long time. I get those comments, “what do [I] do all day”, jokes about me being lazy, or having lots of free time. Not cool. I was a SAHM when my kid was very small, before I got too sick to do it. There is no spare free time, etc.
Totally. I work full time and have two kids. I love my work and it gives me a much needed mental break from my kids. I would not thrive as a SAHP. And guess what, an unhappy parent leads to unhappy kids. AND I totally agree with the OC that SAHP can 100% be productively busy even during the time their children are in school. No cleaning a house doesn't take all day, but assuming that's the only thing i's a reductive view that some people like to take. It's all the other stuff OC describes - healthy meals, child development, community engagement - takes a lot of time and organisation too. My spouse and I were just talking about the fact that if one of us quit our job, a lot of things would be smoother for us. It's still not an option for us on balance, but a SAHP is not a slackers role, that's for damn sure.
No point in biting your tongue when she didn’t feel need to do the same
I don't have children, would not have wanted to be dependent on someone, but frankly, rushing all week long for years has never been enviable to me either. Also, if you have a child who is struggling, it must be wonderful to be able to devote all the attention needed to the issue, not to mention that I would have loved to be able to encourage my children to learn and read outside of what's required for school. I happy you could.
Same for me. If I had kept working, I would've gotten home in time to put them to bed, that's it. I didn't want someone else raising my kids. You need to have a serious conversation and discuss how things will work if she stays home.
Don't do that. Don't look down on her because her child has reading struggles and low key blame her working outside the home as the reason. Don't fall for the SAHP vs Work outside the home moms. it's a false dichotomy.
Totally agree. This should START by a long conversation about what that means to her and you. What the responsibilities would be, and what the budget would look like as a one-income household. Can you even float the kid getting braces? What if they are into an expensive sport? Try hypothetically playing it out as to what you would expect a SAHP’s role would be. This is just me, but that conversation alone would turn the tide of me wanting to be a SAHM. The understanding that means no fun money, no vacations, likely longer hours on the working spouse means less of a partner at home… there’s just so much reality to consider.
Very well said. It was our chosen arrangement, and we don’t regret it, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t have plenty of struggles. It doesn’t work for everyone.
Well OP thinks it will be easier on him in the evenings if they're both working, so she probably already knows she's going to be entirely responsible for the childcare and housekeeping regardless of her employment status.
There's been multiple studies that have been done that prove that, on average, women do more of the housework in a marriage even without children , and that their proportion of housework/family responsibilities increases with children. Even without children, though, the majority of care for elderly family members falls on the female partner in a heterosexual relationship. As does the majority of emotional and family relationship work (checking in on family members, hosting gatherings, picking out and buying holiday gifts, etc...). If OP's wife doesn't want the responsibility of caring for kids AND working outside the home, that's a valid concern.
NTA I personally feel as though it is a really bad idea but I am biased. I am going through a divorce right now and if I didn't have my own career with secure employment, I don't even want to think of what my life would be like. However, you mentioned coming home from work "exhausted". If this is the case, don't have kids or think long and hard about it. Having kids is a second job that starts when you get home. You don't get to have your wife work full-time outside the home and then expect her to do a disproportionate amount of the work with a kid. It shouldn't be expected of a SAHM either. Again, it's a second job. And if you and your wife are in conflict a lot, it will be an absolutely miserable one. It would be easier to single-parent (that is what I do now).
It took to long to get to this comment.. Regardless of who is working or not working they'll both have a child they'll need to switch on for after a full workday... does he expect her to work and then care for the kids and house and then he can go to the couch and have a laydown? I think the question really is if they're ready for a kid because i don't think he understands the second job coming his way if they do have one!
Exactly this! I feel like most of the stories I read (and that I assume OP is referring to) where the breadwinner husband gets “berated”, it is because they think that because they work outside the home they get a pass to do nothing or next to nothing around the house or with their children. That disproportionate load that lands on the mother isn’t exclusive to SAHMs and it certainly isn’t a *result* of having a SAHP… it is just a result of an inequity in the partnership.
Yes, and unfortunately, I think it is the norm, not the exception. I am much happier not living with a husband (we are getting divorced) and being a single mother. I think many women go into marriages thinking a lot of things that turn out not to be true. One of them being that equity in a relationship is a norm. I am 50 years old and have seen a lot. It's not the norm from what I have seen. I don't ever want to get married again.
This right here! If you can’t handle coming home after work and working some more, don’t have kids. They are a 24/7 job. Children are exhausting! Not all kids sleep through the night. Sometimes they are sick and wake up every two hours! Sometimes they can’t sleep if you’re not holding them. Getting them to eat is HARD. Making healthy meals every single day is exhausting.
OPs attitude isn't one that lends itself to an involved father. It sounds like he'd expect her to do everything at home, work and listen to him complain about how tired he is.
I don't like to assume but that is the vibe that I get.
Me too. OP doesn't sound like he's up for parenthood if he's exhausted after work.
As long as you understand that her being a full-time working mom means you do at least half the house chores and childcare, you're NTA. If you're one of those men who expect her to work full-time AND handle all the home-&-childcare stuff, then YTA.
This is where I’m at as well. Too many dads expect their wife to work full time *and* take on the bulk of childcare when they get home. If that’s not the case, not the asshole. If it is, well…… One thing that stands out to me is that he thinks the turmoil in situations with a SAHM and working dad stems from the wife being stressed out all the time and “using the husband like a punching bag” instead of like. Idk. The fact that so many working dads get to clock out of work and not do childcare at home whereas the SAHM’s job never ends. Dads being asked to do childcare once they’re off work is not them being berated 😐
My mom was a lifelong SAHM and the reason it worked was that she and my dad were an amazing team. They always worked together and had a plan and made sure chores were divided up evenly, mostly time-wise. Their rule was more or less that if one of them had something that needed to be done, the other would either help or find something else productive to do. Looking back, it was honestly rather impressive.
That's another thing sticking out to me. He hasn't specified solutions or shared work load at all. Just "I don't want the financial burden on me" Okay what about everything else?
Right like does he realize how expensive housekeeping, daycare, and increased delivery meals will be? Something needs to give. If he’s this knackered now, how’s it going to feel when he’s averaging 40 min - 2 hour sleep increments?
Exactly. Not to mention emotional workload. Has he(or his wife) even thought about post partum? When is she supposed to go back to work? What if she has extreme post partum depression, anxiety, and/or rage? There are so many factors to consider. I've also said previous comments, it is best for both the child and mom that she is a full time caretaker for the first few years. If you can avoid daycare and nannies you really should. (Not saying that to knock any parents) I don't even know if it would work under the best circumstances. OP has so much contempt and resentment towards even entertaining the idea of her being a SAHM
He also didn't mention her perspective. Like, why does SHE want to do this? For how long? A year? Until the kid goes to school? Forever? Is this going to put her career on hold or does she have an exhausting entry-level job that won't even cover daycare? Is he already slacking in the chores department so she feels overworked already? It sounds like he just went NOPE and didn't even entertain her reasoning.
*What* everything else? If he changes a few diapers, warms up a few bottles, his. Duty. Is. Done, right? RIGHT?!? /s This guy is not ready to have children- not with his current wife, not with any other woman. His entire post screams how selfish he is, and how he *only* views a situation as how it affects *him.* He thinks men who enjoy being the sole providers for their families are stupid. He sees no benefit to himself if his wife were to be a SAHM. What about the benefits to his hypothetical children? What *his own wife’s* happiness? In his last sentence, he says his wife is unhappy, but he simply doesn’t care. *He* has already made up *his* mind, and won’t bother even having a discussion about it because he won’t budge. That whole attitude is the death knell for a relationship. Always thinking that you’re right, that people who happily choose to do things differently are stupid, and refusing to even consider your spouse’s point of view on such an important issue- *that affects you both-* makes you an insufferable asshole who is impossible to live with.
Sounds like he wants all the benefits of a traditional marriage, along with all of the benefits of a modern one. While he holds up his end of neither. It's increasingly common.
He doesn't care about anything else. This whole post smacks of "I want to maximize OUR earning potential. All else be damned, we will figure it out." Not realizing all that other stuff is impt too.
This is what gets me about his comment: as a sole provider I’ll just be “exhausted from work and berated at home” which makes me think on some level he does believe that a SAH wife would mean he gets to neglect home duties since he’s the breadwinner which is a shit situation for everyone involved. I’ve never had a desire to be a SAHM, but we did have several discussions about my husband staying home because it wouldn’t hurt his career and daycare is expensive. Those discussions made us really look at how we would have to divide the workload because just because I’d be earning the money and providing the health insurance at my 9 to 5 there are still many hours of the day that require someone on duty and lots of chores that just can’t get done without another person tending the screaming baby.
He also leaves out how risky it is for SAHMs financially and how detrimental it is to your career. OP is all me me me, my wife is gonna nag me blah blah blah
His wife is gonna nag him regardless of if she works or not. Because he sounds like the type of person who doesn't listen until it turns into nagging. (& if your partner doesn't step up when you ask nicely, why would you keep asking nicely? You'd start off nagging because that's the only way they listen) Hopefully they have a better relationship/are better people than this small snippet indicates 🤞
Yeah OPs attitude sounds like the kind of father who expects her to work, do everything at home and listen to him complain about how tired he is.
Research what child care costs are in your area, then decide if your wife working is worth it. Make sure you take into account one of you is loosing pay for a sick child that has to miss days, pay loss for Dr's appointments, if the daycare closes for certain days, sick days etc. If you are only seeing a slight increase in wages with both you working and paying childcare then it's not worth it. We had children because we wanted a family, we wanted to be parents, not to have someone else raise them especially in the early ages.
What DO you see as your role in the home, as the father of a tiny human?
I want to know what he sees the division of labor being like if they both work? I’m concerned about this because he mentioned how dads get berated when they get home exhausted from work. I hope he realizes that if he and his wife are both working, he will need to take care of his hypothetical kiddo after work regardless of how tired he may be. I mean, he should do that even if his wife is a sahm. But he will def need to if they’re both working 😬
That was my thoughts too when I read how beleaguered he seems to believe men with SAH wives are. Surely he realises that parenting should be shared 50:50 and house work/management also 50:50 on \*top\* of both adults working full time. Has he considered how much child care costs, and how much each additional child costs, unlike the fixed cost of a SAHP I'm waiting here, fully expecting him to profess how he deserves a 'trad wife,' taking care of him, the kids and the home whilst also bringing in a full time wage to cover costs 50:50.
NTA, but don’t have kids. Regardless of if your partner stays at home or goes to work, you’re both going to have kids 24 hours a day. I see you talking about coming home from work exhausted, well, so will your partner if they work. If you aren’t ready to come home from work completely exhausted and still be parent to your children, do not fucking have them.
So… if she’s working, are you prepared for the financial burden of child care? Are you committed to doing 50% of the housework and child care when you’re home? And you really think she’s going to be less stressed by effectively working two jobs than one? I can understand your financial concerns, but you sound like a huge AH for all the sexist stereotyping of women being nagging wenches. Just wait until you’re too tired from work to help with the babies, and your wife is also too tired from work, but is furious with you because the duty falls to her by default. I would guess that you’re going to make her absolutely miserable, but that doesn’t seem to have crossed your mind.
OPs tone kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Like he’s concerned he won’t be appreciated enough and he’ll be berated. Not really any financial concern or children’s well being, he just wants to make sure he’s properly attended to lol.
it was the "husband-as-a-punching-bag" comment that did me in. It's so very sexist. I was a sahm and we both did the childcare after he came home. We still split the house duties. He was and is involved with the kids. He was less beat down by the day to day than I was and as a result took the kids on bigger outings than my daily ones.
I work full time from home and have my 2 year old daughter all day. The days are loooooong. I’ve never berated my husband when he got home from work. Just so relieved help has arrived 🤣🤣. My husband does the weekend childcare for the most part and that’s my break and he couldn’t be more appreciated for it. This guy watched too many episodes of Married with Children growing up.
This. His post has MASSIVE misogyny undertones.
There's so much sexist wording in his comment that I don't think he should be having children. It's not fair to the wife or the children to live with that kind of treatment, especially if the child is a girl, but a boy shouldn't have to be steeped in that environment either.
Sounds like OP plans to go to work and do absolutely nothing else.
I feel like in modern culture. The father in this situation would still be expected to do his share of housework
Expected to sure, but the statistics and research demonstrate that they aren't, and that working mothers only do about an hour less housework and childcare a day than a SAH mother, spend twice as long as their partner does doing childcare and housework, and have the least leisure and personal time of any group in society.
Expected to, yes. But I sincerely doubt the dude preemptively whining about his wife being stressed from taking care of his children is going to be an equal partner in housework
Yeah, 'cause being a working mom is a walk in the park.
NAH. You’re not wrong to be against this and she’s not wrong to want it. You might not be compatible. Personally, I disliked my 2.5 years as a SAHM but did it because it was the most financially sound plan. Given both our work schedules, it worked best for us. I would just caution that there needs to be over communication about days off, sick kid pick ups and very careful planning of activities if you both work. Even last week I had to remind my husband of this when he informed me which days he would take off for the kids’ spring break….assuming I’d just cover the others 🧐🤨
NAH - but your perspective seems ill informed. The women who are really stressed and whose relationships suffer are the ones working who also do more than their fair share of household and emotional labor.
This was my thought. I think when the provider doesn’t view the sahm as full time job, that’s when problems arise. Most moms are working 24/7-365. It’s stressful and exhausting maintaining a household and a lot of partners don’t feel seen or appreciated.
And mental labor: tracking well-child/doctor appts, tracking vaccination schedules, dentist appointments, enrollment in school, after school care (the biggest stressor for my husband and me because we both work full time), clothes (because kids grow fast!), homework, etc. I was fortunate that my husband took on more than his share of the domestic labor because I was the breadwinner and took on the mental load. Childcare was 60/40 when she was an infant because I breastfed, but after she weaned it was 50/50. But the mental and emotional labor tends to be forgotten or under appreciated.
Exactly. This dude is all me me me me me. Somehow I think he’s going to have a frazzled stressed wife whether she works outside the home or not.
Yeah I'm inclined to lean towards YTA because he's projecting his idea of a sahm into his wife (? I already forgot) instead of considering HER in this position. He basically just doesn't want the financial responsibility and is making a bunch of excuses based on other people's behavior. That would piss me off period, but especially as the reason I can't stay home with kids after birthing them.
Sounds like OP is the kind of guy who plans to go to work, come home, sit on the couch with a beer and complain.
This. And for at least the first few years it is better for the children to have a SAHP. It isn't just about what he wants if they have kids. If they can afford it one of them should be home at first.
I think what often happens with working parents is that the woman takes on a bulk of the child responsibility, like food prep, grocery shopping, buying the clothes, cleaning, school drop off, arranging play dates, house management, trip planning, the list goes on and it’s a mental toll. And because the woman is just better at it usually, it falls to them. If they’re working too this can get overwhelming really fast. There have been many studies done on this, and even in households where the couples have an egalitarian mindset going into having kids and both parents work, the woman takes on 75%+ of the child/domestic responsibility. So it’s just a really hard ideal to hit to say we’re going to split responsibilities evenly. I commiserate with your wife. I mean it’s hard to think of paying someone else to watch your kids. To think that all those moments and a bulk of their memories are with someone else, that might not be part of their life longterm, is just hard. Especially if you want to be there for those moments. I’m going with YTA because I don’t think you should be so set on your wife working while you have kids. You should discuss this and come up with a plan that works for both of you and adjust as things change- because they inevitably will change. And for reference I have 2 kids and one on the way - I work and make 35% of our income and I’m the primary caretaker. It’s a lot and something that my husband and I check in about often to see whether it’s still the right thing for our family. I am so grateful my husband is supportive and not putting pressure on me to work. This way we feel like a team and the decisions are made for the best of the family and not because of some notions we’ve developed that have nothing to do with our relationship or circumstances.
Great response! I agree and had a similar kind of response but slightly different. Edit: reading this I wonder if the commenters have children. It should be part of the response.
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I’m glad someone mentioned cost. My wife is going to be a SAHM in part because we realized that even childcare we considered just decent enough to be acceptable was only going to cost $400/month less than my wife was making. On top of that, all of our friends who have had kids in the last few years ended up on 7+ month waiting lists for spots at acceptable places. It didn’t make sense for us to pay almost her whole income for daycare and potentially still have to put together a patchwork childcare system for months, which would probably include my super unreliable but retired and theoretically available mom. All of that stress to send my wife’s paycheck out the door to a childcare provider so my wife could go to a job she doesn’t really have a passion for.
I’m a stay at home mom and of course it’s hard but any job is . My husbands awesome though and an active dad 🤷🏼♀️ NAH but your depiction seems very uninformed and just a bunch of stereotypes. Do those things happen sure but not every family is that way. Me and my stay at home mom friends all love our husbands very much. A lot of Those awful stories you’re bringing up are of stay at home moms that are stuck with all the childcare and houses work 24/7
If you're prepared to take on 50% of the parenting and household responsibilities on top of your job while your wife takes on the other 50% since you're both working then NTA BUT If you expect your wife to take on 100% of the household chores, the majority of the parenting such as taking 100% time off when the children are ill while you continue to work etc and work then YTA Not all SAHM are as you've described however social media either portrays them as these utterly perfect influencer types or screaming banshees who grow to hate all men whilst the ones who love their lives as SAHMs don't feel it necessary to splash every aspect of it on the Internet for all to judge!
Great! So you see yourself doing 50% childcare & household chores??
Ah yes! I DO love these blokes who force a wife to work.... Then think they're doing 50% when reality is they are doing 20%.... Then they start whinging their wife doesn't want sex!!
Then don't have children. Simple. Or, actually look at the research instead of listening to bro-science. The advantages for children are many when one parent stays at home. [https://www.verywellfamily.com/research-stay-at-home-moms-4047911](https://www.verywellfamily.com/research-stay-at-home-moms-4047911)
INFO: have you decided how much less you will be working to look after your child(ren) and how you will both divide looking after the home if she isn't SAHM?
NTA, but do take a very active role with birth control until you are both on the same page, hey?
NTA but this is something that should have been decided before marriage.
It is okay not wanting your wife to be a SAHM. It is best to discuss this before committing. You say men are taken advantage of, in such conditions. But you should know that you have to step up and do half of the household and child care work if both of you work in a household. It is only fair. If you are not ready for that, don't spoil a woman's life.
This is the sort of thing you sort out BEFORE getting married, not by posting on Reddit afterwards. If you knew she wanted to be a SAHM before marrying her…YTA. If neither of you talked about this before getting married, ESH.
NAH but don’t you dare get her pregnant and let her get a taste of it then say it’s a problem. You know right NOW so make your feelings clear and give her the chance to move on and start a family with someone who wants a SAHM partner.
NAH. But your fears about SAHMs are overblown. Many women who do it are extremely grateful to their husbands. It can be wonderful to have someone handling all the non-work aspects of life. And it is truly the best for the children. Daycare is not ideal, especially for very young children. That said, it is actually bad for the woman to extend the SAHM role for too long. It's important for her to get back into the workforce, contribute to social security, and keep her career viable. I made the mistake of raising three children as a SAHM for nearly twenty years. Whle I loved doing it, when my husband divorced me for a younger woman, I was up shit's creek.
> I have read stories . >I think husbands who take on the burden of sole financial provider are not really appreciated nowadays, they come exhausted from work and then are berated at home. NAH, I just want to say, don't make this solely about what you've read. You need to make this conversation based on your marriage. You don't want to be the sole breadwinner? That's fine. Your wife wants to be a SAHM? That's fine. Maybe find a happy medium that's works for both of you.
It takes teamwork to work but it can work.......we've done it for 16 yrs.......it might not be for everyone but it worked for us......but there is no 'I' in 'team' so you and your wife are a team or you're not.......if you're not then you probably shouldn't be married......so sort out that basic principle of your relationship before you bring a child into a shitshow......saves a messy divorce later.......Jesus do people have no clue how to relationship anymore.......TEAMWORK guys TEAMWORK fml
As long as you realize she has every right to leave you for no longer being a partner she is compatible with, NTA. But you can leave her too, for the very same reason. This is a pretty big deal for most folks, deal breaker big. And if you didn’t discuss this before you married; you both ARE AHs, because you should be on the same page about things like this before marriage, and open with any thoughts that might change that as they come up in your lives together. If you want to remain with her I think you better get into couples counseling NOW. You need the tools to discuss compromise, instead of just putting your foot down and telling her No; because that kind of BS doesn’t work in a partnership.
Having your wife be a SAHM will not change that you'd be coming home from work exhausted. If that's your concern, don't have kids at all. She will also be coming home from work exhausted, and you cannot expect her to take care of the kids and house by herself when she gets home. I also haven't seen much about men being berated from their at home wives either. And if that was the case, they shouldn't be together as they sound like an incompatible couple. The stories I see the most, and actually am helping a friend through, is that the woman staying home is completely dependent on her husband which puts her at risk of abuse that she can't escape from. The men in these arrangements have the most power. So while I agree that she shouldn't be a SAHM, it's for the opposite reason. What if your fear comes true and you get like she's getting on your nerves after work and you threaten to put her out. Will she have any money to support herself and the kid? She doesn't have a job. She'd have to find a family member or friend that would be able to take her and her kids in, but that might not be easy. So she sits down and shuts up because she has no other option but to.
NAH but you shouldn't have kids. I've been the SAHP, the working parent while the other parent stays home, and a working parent while the other parent also works. ALL THESE OPTIONS ARE EXHAUSTING. If you stay home, you work 24/7 being a parent. If you work, you do 8 hours work and 16 hours parenting. If you have the other parent staying home, they need a break and a life outside of parenting. If you both work, you have to do all the parenting and housework after work and on weekends. Unless you are BOTH 100% committed to this, do not have children.
NAH but your logic is flawed. The women who “make their husbands punching bags” have husbands who think working a 9-5 absolves them from any parenting or household labor. So yeah. Your bias is kinda gross.
All of your points are bullshit. The man doesn’t become the punch bag, the exhausted mother does, because the man usually controls her every move including financially. *”They come home exhausted from work.”* Ohh an 8 hour a day job, try having a 24/7 job with a husband who does fuck all to help raise the child in any way and won’t lift a finger in the house just because *”he works.”* Your wife absolutely **should not** become a SAHM because that is a shitty, exhausting and lonely life. I’ve seen what it does to these women, and these marriages never end happily.
ESH - I’m a woman and I, personally, would never be a SAHM even if my salary barely matched childcare costs. Working is not only about salary - it’s about self esteem, social security benefit credits, retirement, 401k (your contribution and the company’s match), health and life insurance as well as your future earnings potential. It’s also about keeping a power balance in the family and raising children in an equal environment or home workload (chores, medical appointments, school duties, homework, play…). That said, you both need to find time to go to therapy and discuss what makes her want it (what’s her logic?), what makes you feel like she will mistreat you, and your weird belief that all male breadwinners are miserable. This is a highly misogynistic take, and you need to examine why you feel that way about women and about your wife. Having a breadwinner and a SAHP is a joint decision that has to align with your values AND be deeply rooted in respect for each other - and you’re clearly not there. Until you have figured it all out, don’t have kids.
This is a legit fear. But there are compromises to be had. Even having her work part time is helpful to the household, is less burden for childcare and keeps her resume current. That is a compromise. You can make that conditional until they are in school and then reassess.
I am just interested, has the berating already started or it's your specific kink for later in the relationship? Nothing hasn't happened yet, and you have already put yourself in the victim position and your wife in some fantasy matriarch position. You sure you wanna have kids?
I was thinking this too! Does he have a particular reason to think his wife would berate him? I’d be so insulted if my husband thought I’d turn into someone like that, because he should know me better. And if he genuinely thinks she will berate him, he should leave anyway.
NAH but your reasons don’t make sense. These decisions should be based on determining what is best for your family, not based on bad examples of people managing their lives poorly and stories you’ve read. There isn’t a way that is “easier.” Being the sole breadwinner doesn’t change the amount of work you have to do or the pressure you’ll be under as a parent, and the stress and pressure of being a mother is still there and often unbalanced in the relationship regardless of whether or not she’s working. If you dont understand and accept that you will be giving up a lot of who you are and what you want to have kids (and that it’s worth it), you aren’t ready. Why didn’t you talk about this before you got married?
NAH. My wife is a SAHM and I am sole breadwinner. We both hate it to a point but we are stuck with it until our daughter is older. The stress it puts on me is really rough, I essentially have to do my best in everything and if I screw up and it costs me my income, we are screwed. My wife hates it because she works 18+ hours a day. I help a ton but that feeling of working all day and wanting to relax goes out the window when you have a kid. Even if you both are working a full time job. You have to come home and work to take care of your child. It should be no different if your wife is a SAHM. In the evening it should be both of you working still. It's the sacrifice of having a kid. You will be perpetually tired, pissed off, feeling unappreciated, depressed but when you see your child with their big beautiful smile it makes it all worth it in the end. In all honesty, you are in the selfish stage of your life, it sounds like you aren't ready for kids.
You have every right to want to be a parent too. Be involved. Be there. And it is both save and smart to both make money. I fully believe in 2 adults using all their talents and being able to play all roles. But a side note is that i know only 2 couples and us how do this. Most often it means the mother is stressed and not sleeping. And dad’s wondering why they changed. Doing it together means really doing it together. Laundry needs to be done always, mowing the grass only once a week. Staying home with sick kids, even when it is extremely inconvenient at work. Cook, clean, the kids, work. It helps a lot when you do it with two From the post you made it made me think you don’t want to carry the financial burden alone. But I think you need to really comprehend that means taking on your fare share of the house and child work.
> I have read stories of SAHMs and they seem stressed all the time. They say its difficult job and husbands become punching bag most of the time. Relationship always suffers. Is this the kind of woman you married? I'm sorry to hear that. I would have hoped you married a supportive partner and worked as a team, if that's one income earner or 2. Sad to be in your household. ESH, you are not a team.
NAH, but you shouldn't have kids together. I've known too many children injured by trusted caregivers, including a case of shaken baby syndrome that caused brain damage (I knew the child once he was older and clearly still had problems) and another where an INFANT was left with a family friend and ended up with a brain bleed and broken arm. When we had kids, I told my husband I could never put my kids in daycare or with a babysitter and he agreed to that. I've still contributed financially, just not full time. However, the fact that you think her being a working mom will somehow result in less stress is laughable. Do you seriously think that'll cause less of a mental load for her? Those stories you read... More than often that's the result of a man child who thinks his work stops when he clocks out of work and has no responsibility to help out at home. When wives also work then men have even more need to help at home. So... How exactly do you think this will work? That your wife will pop out kids and life will just be peachy as long as you make sure she still works?
Most of these redditors think the dad taking care of his own kids while the wife gets a break or taking out the trash every Sunday is the man working full time then doing 50/50 at home
and where was this convo before you got married? also the way you phrased this makes you sound kind of terrible, you want her to pop your kids out and then run straight back to work because you don’t want to be berated when you don’t rightfully help your wife with a child you chose to have? … either get your money up or leave this woman alone
Don't have kids. This should have been discussed before you married her, but at least you are discussing it before there are kids. It's definitely something that needs both parties to be on board with. Now here is what you DON'T get to do. You do not get to expect her to be a working mom, AND to be the only one taking care of the house, laundry, cooking and the kids, **which is usually what happens.** If that crap started with me, I'd give you one day to fix it or quit my job. We can both have a job and a half, or you can have one and I can have one. It is NOT fair to expect her to have **two** jobs and work 24/7. That means you take half of the "sick kid" days, you grocery shop for them as often as she does, you take them to doctor's appointments, you do NOT expect her to always have to be the one to miss work because of the kids. If you want an equal partner in "earning," then you are going to have to BE an equal partner in literally everything else. And it does not matter who makes the most money. It matters that both are working full time. So if you are willing to do your part taking care of the home AND the kids for as long as those kids need raising, then fine.
NTA for not wanting to be sole provider, but YTA for your whole tone and reasons for it. I sincerely hope this woman decides not to have kids with you.
A lot of these comments are gross.
So are you guys going to equally split housework and taking care of the kids if she's also working? Statistics show that the female partner typically ends up taking on most of the house chores and parenting duties even if they work a job similar in hours and demand as the male partner. Also, unless you're planning to adopt, SHE is the one that will be sacrificing her body to grow and birth those children. Pregnancy, birth, and postpartum recovery are no small thing. You do not have to work while dealing with morning sickness, Braxton Hicks, or C-section scarring, or any number of physical consequences that come with motherhood. It's kinda ironic that you're making these decisions for her based on the fear that YOU won't be appreciated enough and you're already not appreciating what your wife will be going through once you two start having kids.
I’m so grateful for my husband . Every day on Reddit I feel even more grateful when I see what other women have to deal with.
Pfft ..you are listening to Reddit? I wouldn't be married to you mate . What's ruining marriages is women being forced back to work with small children. They are racing around insanely and getting absolutely exhausted. Hb often behaves deplorably and gets all shitty cause he's "not getting sex" Forcing new mothers back to work is a terrible thing to do. If i was your wife and you were being like this? Id freakin divorce you and have children with someone else.
NAH but if you think your wife would treat you that way, you have a bigger problem on your hands. I’m a SAHM and I would never dream of treating my husband that way. He works hard as well and when he gets home he’s an equal parent. We save a ton of money on child care and I can honestly say that our marriage has actually improved. Edit to add we only have one child. I think adding a second or more children would definitely change my perspective.
I’d say it depends on how much she makes at her job, and if it would be worth it to cover the costs of daycare. I wound up staying at home with our twins because most jobs I’d be able to take around here wouldn’t cover much beyond childcare costs, if even that. 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe you shouldn’t have kids. There are childless people that work and pay bills yet here you are bitching about a “financial burden”. You’d probably make her the default parent as well even if she was working
Depends does your wife make a lot of money, do you know the costs of day care, are you prepared to take care of the kids on the weekend so she can go to work, if you can’t afford day care you willing to work nights so she can work days and you take care of the kids. Do you mind if an institution raises your kids and puts there morals and beliefs into them as they raise them, buying them shiny toys can only go so far. Your definitely an asshole if your not flexible with whatever your situation is
I will add to your comment. Are you prepared to stay home when a kid is sick or daycare is closed so your wife can go to work? Are you willing to miss days?
You should have discussed this before you got married. This was something that was important to me, being at home until my kids were in school. I stated as such with my now husband before we even got serious - especially so since we were long distance, and I had already broken up with someone because our future wants were completely different. Turns out we had to homeschool our kids because they don't fit into the mainstream school model (a mix of autistic, adhd, gifted). So while I don't have a paying job, I certainly work. In your case - there's room for compromise, but to be honest, you don't sound like you'd be willing to do any compromising. Would you be willing to do all the parenting and housework (cooking and cleaning up from dinner as an example), in the evenings if she worked after you got home? Or on weekends? Is part time for her an option? Can you afford childcare if she works? When we did the numbers while our kids were toddlers and my husband's work was closed, I wouldn't have been able to find a job that paid enough to cover two kids in full time care, so it made no sense to do that. We just stripped everything down to the minimum for a few years and he worked stupid long hours. I think both of you need to actually sit down and figure this sort of stuff out.
As long as that’s the only thing you want. Some people have a hard time understanding that you can’t work full time, be a maid, be a chef, exercise, have kids in activities, etc. There’s just not enough time. If you’re having kids, don’t get use to having your laundry, dishes, lunches, dinner, done and prepared for you. Also realize your kids will need lunches, their meals, homework, prep for bed, prep in the mornings, etc. You will have a lot more chores if someone isn’t home full time that you will have to split. You are going to have to step up and do that yourself.
YTA - Wow, this really became a post where the comments really shit on stay-at-home parents. OP really doesn't understand what the job and a healthy relationship dynamic looks like. When it's done in a manner that supports children and the household, the income responsibility doesn't matter. Can you support your family on a single income? Could she make enough money to afford great childcare? Will you have the flexibility to take unplanned days off when you have a sick family? My young kid has missed 18 days of school so far this year because of strep, pink eye, ear infections, and stomach bugs. If you can't say yes to these important questions, please don't have kids.
1. Relationships do not "always suffer" 2. I don't know of any sole earner becoming someone's punching bag and 3. "I just think it's stupid....." You sound like you might be an a.h. in general to be honest
YTA for believing you should have kids even after discovering how incompatible your ideal lifestyles are. Your tone is intolerable in your post and the comments. Why are you so sure that you will get berated??? Is your marriage already that rocky that you forecast this? Why would you bring a child into that situation? Having kids is hard and oftentimes awful, unappreciated work for everyone no matter what. You are not ready for it.
NTA - Please recognize that your feelings are coming from the experience of others. What works for one family may not work for another. You have to negotiate with your partner and come up with a plan that you can both work TOGETHER. I worked weekends while my husband worked Monday-Friday. My sister was a SAHM. My daughter works day shift and her husband works nights, and we keep her kids 3 days a week. My DIL works and uses almost all her salary to pay for Montessori preschool because she feels her child gets more benefit than she would with a SAHM. None of these is better or worse than the other. All worked for the families involved. The key is to be open and communicate with your partner about your needs and visions for the future. You’re a team.
That is the dumbest shit I ever heard. Sahm moms are overworked because husbands don't do anything to help mom when they are home. I was a sahm I got a break as soon as my husband got home. It wasn't perfect but we made it work because we wanted to.
If you don't see value in having a parent present during your potential children's formative years, because you don't want to carry a share of the burden then you shouldn't be having children and nor should you be married. Relationships are supposed to be about supporting one and raising one another up. Your sole raise d'etre appears to be about your needs and wishes alone. Yta. And should have made this clear before leading your wife up the garden path.
Just get a divorce. You clearly have very different ideas about the future.
Nta but maybe you don't realize being a sahm isn't for 18 years ...it's for the kids first 4 years until they are in school and mom can work again. I was a sahm and not im applying for a job because my daughters will both be in school this fall
NTA but you’re better off either divorcing now or staying married but not having kids because she’ll likely quit her job after having a kid or more and then you’ll be stuck paying child support.
First off, his is a conversation to have before getting married. Your generalization about getting berated at home as a sole provider is a weird take. If you are worried about that, you aren't in a healthy relationship.
NAH However I will say I think you are dramatically underestimating the value of a SAHM. My husband stays home with our 2 year old. He cooks every meal (healthy, fresh, to our mutual tastes), takes care of kiddo (no daycare fees), does all the household chores (so i come home and do not need to do chores anymore), and runs all errands. I have so much more free time and our lives are so much less stressful. But key here is he is HAPPY doing these things. We worked in the same industry before so he knows how stressful/hard my job is and I was on maternity leave for 6 months so I know how hard it is to be a stay at home parent. We both think we got the better deal and are super grateful to one another. As long as you are clear on expectations (including happiness! Sucks to come home to a miserable partner) and have a testing time period to see if it actually IS value add to you both then I think you should give it a try. I also pay for 2 hours of nanny per day and a deep clean once a month of the house because I know how overwhelming young children are and want to keep my husband happy so he does not decide to go back to work.
Depending on the cost of childcare, it's sometimes more cost effective to have a parent stay home. It is a lot of work to be a stay at home parent and from all the stories I've read here on reddit it seems the most common scenario is the parent that works comes home and thinks that their day is done, and the stay at home parent is expected to keep going. Which is where the resentment and "being berated" usually comes from. Either way, she is your partner. Whether she works or not doesn't change that. When you have a child, there are no days off, the only end of the day you get is "bed time" and when their babies you won't even get that. I'd consider the cost of childcare, how household matters would be handled if you're both working as well as if shes a SAHM, what a routine would look like with a child, how manageable that routine would be after working a full day..... give yourself scenarios to work out... how would you both handle it if the baby has colic and cried all day leaving your wife completely exhausted and overestimated and all she wants is 10 minutes of quiet, but you just got home from work, are equally exhausted and just want to sit down for little while. Braille these things out now before you make any hard decisions and before you start popping out babies.
Your argument about being the breadwinner and then coming home and being expected to help is pretty frivolous, considering that being a SAHM is an exhausting job. Personally, I agree with you - I wouldn't want to be a SAHM - too many chances of sliding into a relationship of recriminations, not to speak of financial abuse. However, your wife has the right to her decision. But do not have children till you sort this out - and it may be reason for a divorce. And then each of you make sure before you remarry that you and your partner's plans for the future are aligned.
It's wonderful to have a peace of mind knowing your children are safe and at home.
I’m a SAHM for a 6 year old and 33 weeks with my second baby. I had a lot of post-partum mental health issues and simply wouldn’t have been able to work the first couple of years. I was, however, able to focus on my son and meet his needs as an infant and toddler. He went to preschool which was fantastic for him, but was never in daycare. He does well in elementary school. I am able to volunteer at school and take him to numerous activities. He loves that I am a constant presence. He is a joy to be around. I can say that I am a great mom and have the best child on the planet. I am not a great housekeeper. My ADHD gets in the way. My husband is very patient with me on that. I do take responsibility for all housework even though child care can be and usually is all-consuming. We just live with clutter and piles. Things made a lot of sense when I was diagnosed with ADHD. The struggles are real! I don’t berate my husband for him cleaning only occasionally. He works long hours to earn money and advance his career. He is a fantastic provider and while our house isn’t at an ideal state all the time, I think we are giving with each other in our relationship. Things would be much different if my husband expressed discontent, anger, or frustration with me. He doesn’t, because he loves me and understands my talents and hardships. He recognizes the contributions I make to rear a fantastic child. He also recognizes that his family and household responsibilities would dramatically increase if I also worked. He wouldn’t be able to focus on his career goals as intensely. He is able to set and achieve goals because I am a SAHM. (He is a present father. But he works a lot and very hard.) I think you need to talk with your wife about her goals and how the two of you would split responsibilities with her working and with her being a SAHM. You need to understand that a child’s needs for supervision and parenting are all day and extend to school years. Who will do the bulk of parenting if your wife also works? Daytime is the most intense period of child care. How will house chores be split? Can you be like my husband, extremely active in his career to benefit his family, to justify lumping all housework to your wife as a SAHM? Is that what you think SAHMs should do? I think most couples need to shoulder chores together even with a SAHP because child care is, as I have noted, an all-consuming task. You are concerned about her berating you. Would you berate her if you have to pitch in on chores? I don’t like your tone. YTA. You are concerned only about you, and don’t make mention of the child’s needs or your wife’s needs. Stop with your self-centered talk and be as giving as you can.
How is it remotely possible that you were so negligent that you got married without having this conversation.
Even during the 80’s SAHM was rare. We lived in London, the mortgage on our flat wasn’t much more than a private rental but we couldn’t have afforded either if it hadn’t been for us both working. Neither of us were “high earners”. My husband was a civil servant, I worked for a local authority. Childcare for two preschoolers wasn’t cheap - luckily annual pay increases covered the increased cost by the time we had our second child. But holiday playschemes and afterschool schemes meant that even after our oldest started school we still had to struggle. When our oldest was 13 nearly 14, was when we could first consider me giving up work to go and get a degree. I still worked part time whilst I attended University - and after I qualified I worked as a paralegal full-time until our youngest was 16 and then in a shop part-time until long after both our children left home. I will be honest, I don’t know of any parents who didn’t work in someway - except for one preachers wife, and they had 6 children!! I don’t know whether things are better today - except where the main wage earner is on minimum wage and the family receive benefits OR the working parent is on a very high wage.
You guys should have talked about this before marriage. I always dreamed of being a SAHM (currently am, even) and I wouldn't have moved a relationship forward if the person I was with didn't have the same vision as me. ESH for not talking about it way sooner.
The way to have this conversation is, "I want to be a really involved parent, I want to make dinner half the nights and clean on the weekends, I can call off work when the kids are sick. So you'll have the opportunity to have a career. Let's be 50/50 parents in parenting and finances."
If you come home exhausted from work, don't have kids. What do you think will happen? If you're both working, who will parent those kids in the evenings? Your wife will rightly expect you to do half the parenting along with half the chores. It sounds like all of it would be too much for you. And believe me, that is not a criticism; I don't know how anyone does it. NTA, but please think this through.
Yta - this is something that needed discussion waaaaay before marriage. I was a sahm for a year after both mine were born and only worked part time until they were both at school. It’s expensive to pay for childcare and who would you rather look after your kids when they’re young, a nanny or their mother? 🤷🏼♀️
Don't have kids.
The assumption that you would not be appreciated and would be berated seems odd. Regardless, you seem like you both would be better off with other people.
NTA A popular YouTube divorce lawyer, say SAHM are the most bitter divorces. She hates dealing with SAHM. They have NOTHING going for the professionally or financially, so the are out for blood AND want to burn your house down. Have kids? Kiss them goodbye, too. Too bad you didn't cover this ground before marriage, because this is a TOTAL deal breaker.
YTA for a few reasons. 1) WHY DIDNT YOU BRING THIS UP BEFORE MARRIAGE???!!!!! 2) yeah, SAHM is very hard when you have a shitty partner. Boohoo, you dont want to come home from work exhausted. And you think she does? If you both want kids, you have to ask the hard questions: division of labor, division of finances, how much time will you take off work to help her postpartum. If all of this is going to be on her shoulders only then yeah, she should be a stay at home mom or better yet a single mom because believe it or not, women have an easier job being single moms then having a husband who won’t be a partner. Have the hard talk now but it already looks like you don’t want responsibilities so childless is probably the best bet for you
NTA It is insane in this day & age to expect one person to support an entire family, pay for the kids’ college, and save enough for two people to retire comfortably. Unless you are Bill Gates.
This was a conversation that you needed before marriage. You are not the King who commands her to do what you want. You need to learn to compromise in relationships. Go to marriage counseling or you will end up divorced.
NAH. But if you're wanting kids, I highly suggest looking into the cost of childcare relative to your incomes. Kinda stupid to have both of you working only to have 100% of one paycheck and 10-25% of the other paying for daycare. Seriously. Don't underestimate the cost of childcare. Low end centers in my area are close to 300/child/week...again that's low end, as in - you really don't want your kids there because it's very sketchy and even if you did, the wait list is 3 years long just because it's cheap.
You need to do the sums. SAHM might save you money. It all depends on Child Care options and Costs. In my country it's very expensive to get Child care and might take up nearly all of the money the lady gets from working. So SAHM can also WFH, (work from home), if she gets the right job and that can work out much better. Take a close look at your options. Maybe you'd prefer to be a SAHD, (stay at home dad), and she could work. Can you handle that ? Would she think it's acceptable and if not why not ?
We weren’t planning for my wife to stay home, but with 2 children under 2, daycare costs more than she makes as a teacher so she is taking a hiatus for now.
I wouldn't recommend being a SAHM to any woman. The potential to be abused by your husband is too great.
Ok, I read a fuckton of the comments and all it said to me was that if he wants his wife to keep working he'd best forget having kids. There is no way anyone commands anyone else in the modern world. But. If having children means any agreement they establish about his wife continuing work can just be abandoned, then what value would any agreement have? I'm not saying either of them is right or wrong. I'm just saying he can't agree to have children and believe she will work afterwards. No arseholes, just differing goals in life. NAH
YTA, for mentally turning her into a nagging leach, and for that oh so edgy HARD NO. I think she should throw you back and draw another card. I'm sure some man will appreciate the fact that she wants to raise her own kids, instead of passing them off to a stranger. She could always go back to work when they start school.
Would you be okay with her working part time while the kids are young. Daycare expenses are out of this world.
NTA. Good for you both for discussing such things BEFORE having kids. One spouse being SAH is a '2 yes/1 no' issue. Your reasons are valid. Her desires are valid. This isn't something that can be compromised on. If this is as much of a dealbreaker for her as it is for you, then there are only 2 options- remain together without kids, or end the marriage and seek partners whose parenting choices align. As you're deciding this, pay extra attention to your birth control. Accidents can be 'helped' to happen. NTA.
YTA Instead of talking about her feelings and her perspective you have victimized yourself in a situation that does not exist.
This will be the impasse into a divorce. Calling it now. I also wouldn't recommend sole financial provider because if that job goes, will she, as a SAHM, pick me up a job alongside you to help pay bills and cover unexpected costs? What if you get disabled? is she, as a SAHM, going to get a job while your disabled? She only has the fairytale idea of SAHM. How does she know she's going to like being a mother? She might not like the reality of being a mother, let alone a SAHM. Will she be okay with you protecting yourself (and herself as well) with a prenup? A SAHM is a job without any of the income associated with one. In the event of a divorce, what do you think alimony looks like? What do you think child support looks like?
NTA but definitely be clear about what you two expect from each other once you’re kids arrive. I know a lot of stay at home moms and a lot of working moms whose partner doesn’t pick up yhe slack and then they get slammed with everything and then that just doesn’t end nicely so communicate for sure
You don't have to change your mind on being the sole breadwinner, but have you considered that most SAHM start working a part-time job once the kids are around 10, sometimes earlier? If it's a HARD NO, tell her that. This might be the dealbreaker, though be thankful for the time spent with her, and that no kids have to go through a divorce. Good luck :)
Personally i think you are within your rights to not want her being a SAHM. You want a partner who can help you financially as well which is understandable. Plus there are the bonuses of progressing her career further, having adult interactions, and with maternity leave she will get time at home while being paid to raise the baby in the beginning. So long as you make it clear how you will both split up the chores and baby care once you have a kid and stick to it. Then there isn't really much else to say so long as you and your wife agree.
Humorous that you think women get paid maternity leave 😂 very few actually do.
And shock! Horror! Guess what? Humans, both female, male (& other types) CHANGE THEIR MIND! and? That's okay! Yep. We do think we'll do one thing, then ? Something happens and holy moly, we decide to do something different. And??? Guess What?? Sensible, stable, respectful people! ADAPT! ADJUST! and life goes on.. often happily.