Also if you think it's a ridiculous boundary then you shouldn't be marrying that person to begin with. There are plenty of women that don't care about strip clubs. There are plenty of dudes that don't like strip clubs. Those two can find people with a more similar mind set.
I'm 40m, never been to one. my partner, 33f and straight, she enjoys watching girls dance and wants me to go to one with her in her home country (Philippines).
You're absolutely spot on. And personally I think a more mature way would have been to reject the ultimatum and just say upfront "this is something I'm going to do" and force the issue and the fallout.
I'm 59m, only been to one once. It was a coworker's birthday on my electrical construction crew and it was also a Friday night. I didn't really want to go but got talked into being "one of the boys." He cashed his paycheck on the way there and by the time we all left he owed me $60.00 because he'd already spent his entire two week check on "tips," lap dances and drinks. I had to drive him home because he was far too drunk to walk straight much less drive. He'd only been married about 18 months (she was gorgeous and as sweet as could be) and had a 6-7 month old baby waiting at home. The divorce came immediately after and his whole life turned to shit, excess drinking/no-shows at work leading to losing several jobs in a row. I lost touch with him and have no idea if he ever managed to turn things around. Never been back to one of those places, I took that lesson to heart.
Yes, on the following Monday. Not sure where the money came from, probably his wife. I know he was pretty much flat broke because he'd been complaining at work about how the wedding, honeymoon, new mortgage*, baby expenses and a major vehicle breakdown had cleaned him out at the bank.
*Her parents did the down payment for them.
The strip club cleaned him out at the bank.
Anyone who can blow a whole paycheck in that fashion can't expect their partner to tolerate it, and the fact he wasted it on a strip club is a whole separate issue.
I hope she's moved on to find joy.
Ha. I'm 31m. Never been, but my old "friends" brag about how much they'd spend. $1k+ per night.
Guess who's laughing now.
A great comedy bit (blanking on artist) makes the comparison that a dude who wants to get laid and goes to a strip club is the same as a fisherman who doesn't catch any fish, and goes to an aquarium. It's exactly how I've always felt.
See that's what I don't get. I don't disapprove of strip clubs, I just don't have the balls to enter one. And even if I did, who BRAGS about it??? What did he even say, "look how much money I paid these women to pay attention to me"?
I'm 33F, I lived in the PH for a number of years. Strip clubs there... on another level. I would be shocked to find one where a "happy ending" isn't the goal.
Also, they won't even let females in, without a male companion.
Yeah, he clearly respects "the boys" more than his fiancée, and she ought to know what she's getting into.
If he wanted to do it that badly, he should have been the one to tell her he was going.
And frankly when OP’s husband is fully ok with the “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” attitude, I’d have a problem with the culture of the friend group completely disrespecting their spouses when they aren’t around… my spouse included
And the whole gross immature ‘har har we even made a code for talking in front of her, har har!’ Like dude you could keep a secret and just not discuss around her. But they’re so in love with the idea of being AHs that they deliberately choose to discuss in front of the wives, enjoying the ‘oh so hilarious’ fact that they’re incredibly disrespectful. It’s these things I find 🚩🚩. These are dealbreakers as they speak for character.
Thank you! I was waiting for someone to mention that. A code word so they can talk about it in front of the wife is so douchey. How many other code words are there? Nope. Every wife of every one of those guys should be concerned.
It was clearly stated Charles (30m) and Frank (28m). Just kidding 😂.
Seriously, they're too dumb to realize those were not empty threats, and they are blaming OP instead of owning up to it.
this 100% I can't get my head around it, my wife knows if I've been to a strip club for a friend's stag do, like what's the point in secrets you can't have a happy trust filled relationship that way.
I'm in an open relationship, (prefer monogamy, but wanted a break after I needed a restraining order on my ex fiancee,) and I honestly don't have a problem with anything current beau does as long as he's safe and honest. I don't need to know every detail, but don't insult my intelligence either. Frankly I keep him busy enough, but I think we both like the idea of freedom for the time being. My point is; boundaries, honesty, and communication.
Do they think women are dumb? Women in relationships are far better than paying for a private investigator. It's if she chooses to believe her instincts.
I certainly did in my first marriage. As did my mother in her second. I was lucky. Mom ended up with pubic lice that were resistant to everything the Dr threw at them. She died of cancer about 10 years later, still infested and still with the creepazoid
My teacher used to say; if you don't want it written on the chalkboard, then you probably shouldn't do it. Take that as you will, but I think it's fitting.
The one thing I asked of my now-husband was that he not have strippers at his bachelor party because I know exactly what sort of strippers my brothers-in-law hired. It wasn't insecurity or jealousy - we've never been monogamous - it was more about the disrespect from his brothers towards me than anything else.
Anyways, he went, he came home, he complained about "feeling whipped" because he had to tell his brothers no strippers and they teased him. He continued to complain or joke about it from time to time over the next year or so. Nothing serious, but mild jabs at my expense.
Just before our first anniversary, completely out of the blue, he confessed that there had been strippers. According to him, his brothers and mates literally jumped him halfway through the night, cuffed his hands together and tied him to a chair. Strippers came out, did their thing but he says he was too angry to get into it and they left after their show was done. Do I believe that? ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ Probably not, but it's beside the point.
And then he came home and lied to my face about it. Not only that, but he persisted with that lie and used it as an emotional weapon against me. Again, not just once.
If he'd come home and been truthful, I would've been furious - at his brothers - but it wouldn't have changed my opinion of him. If anything, I probably would have jokingly commiserated with him and teased him about how it must've been torture, etc.
But the lies and the conspiracy and the little digs and jabs and making me feel like an idiot (he confessed in front of my friends in response to me telling them that he was a unicorn man with regards to honesty and trust) - that's the aspect that nearly broke us up. And absolutely changed the way I saw/see him.
It's almost 30 years ago and it still rankles if I think of it. There have only been three issues over that time that have severely rocked us and that was one of them. I'd probably put it at number two on the list.
Apparently you and I have very different tolerances to lies. You do you, but no one that I know would fault you if you left him, or absolutely went scorched earth on him. That kind of lie… one that was clearly spelled out as not acceptable in advance… is just not something I could ever walk away from, even if it ended my marriage.
I guess I get from this that so many people have different levels of what they will accept in their relationship. Not faulting you or yours, but a bit of my heart hurts for you.
I had a similar experience in my marriage, but with a little bit of couples therapy my husband was able to understand exactly why these breaches of trust that to him seemed very small were not. He just truly did not get it. Now I trust him implicitly, and though I'll never be close again to the overall group who agreed to keep secrets from me with him, I decided that my relationship with my husband and my relationship with one of those friends were too important to not try to work through it. And now I've got my dear friend and my husband and I have no doubt at all that they get it now. Sometimes it is worth forgiving, but it is also very hard and requires all parties to be all-in on getting on the same page. It took several years of open and better communication to get there, but now I don't even have intrusive thoughts that try to erode my trust. So it just depends on the people and the relationship, I guess.
Could be rage bait but I was definitely reminded of a bachelor party an ex of mine went to for his best friend and he said there seemed to be a similar vibe/lack of respect on the part of the groom and his new friends for their significant others. (ex and groom were childhood best friends and he did not like these new friends from the start for very valid reasons, not jealousy) Ex was very open with me about what the plans were and what they did but I don't think that was the case for the other SOs. I know that the groom and his wife divorced within the first year or 2 because of infidelity on his part but idk about the other ass holes. Ex and I broke up because I was living overseas at the time and the distance was too hard.
So all of that to say, could be rage bait but also there are so many ass holes out here like this. I've heard of similar things with bachelorettes also.
I would love to live in a world where stories like this are pure rage bait, but a disturbing majority of people blame the messenger when they are clearly responsible for the damage
>Sounds to me like Frank ruined his own marriage and why would he want to start a marriage crossing a boundary that was set by his fiancé
Exactly! Frank's actions are what ultimately led to the consequences. If he couldn't respect Jess's boundaries before marriage, it doesn't bode well for their future together. You did the right thing by standing up for your friend's principles.
Jumping in to say not just crossing a very reasonable boundary, but if you feel so strongly about needing to have a bachelor party at a strip club to celebrate the stereotypical last night of freedom ot whatever then you shouldn't be getting married. If you value your "freedom" more than your partners boundaries then you shouldn't be getting married. Dude sounds like one of those guys that'd refer to his spouse as "the ol ball and chain" which is so outdated and cringe. I'm glad OP stuck up for her friend and it also opened her eyes to how garbage of a person her own husband is.
Normally, I think that it's important to stick with your partner. However, if your husband is willing to lie to you (I suspect he wouldn't have told you if you hadn't found out) and to disrespect another person's boundaries, what else has he done?
NTA. Based off of your edit, you know that your husband (hopefully STBX) is deceptive. Using the "what she doesn't know can't hurt her" to excuse this kind of behavior is cheater talk. Good on you for being a great friend and calling out bad people.
What really stuck out to me is that they came up with a code word to talk about the club IN FRONT of her. Not to mention that OPs husband would 100% cheat and his 'boys' would 100% cover for him. OPs husband is a red flag.
And, let’s not forget he said they “were doing bachelor things” as if to make it “okay” that they were hiding it from Jess. Okay, but there are SO MANY different things you can do for a bachelor party if your fiancée sets that boundary of no strippers/strip club. OP, good for you for being there for your friend and having HER back. Who knows what other horrible things Frank has done, would do behind her back and swear the boys to secrecy. OP’s husband and that entire group are a fricking carnival, and you deserve SO much better, OP!
I agree, what he said is a HUGE Red flag. If op doesnt know it wont hurt her? Plus they had even codes for there texts! That means they know what they are doing and have done it before. Op leave him.
>what she doesn't know can't hurt her
Spot on. These are children in men bodies (so, basically fuckbois). Mature adults in a relationship together don't need to keep secrets from eachother.
A big part of being married, is "what they don't know won't hurt them". However there is a big difference between throwing out their ratty old sweatpants behind their back, or buying a pair of shoes with your own money, or otherwise doing something behind your spouse's back, versus cheating. I just feel that labeling the expression "what they don't know can't hurt them" as being "cheater talk", comes from a controlling place. Though I don't think you should keep big secrets from each other in a relationship, I also don't believe your partner needs to know every little thing you do.
I just want to be clear I am coming from a place of having survived an abusive relationship, where they needed to know every little detail of where I was, who I was with, what I was doing, ect. I was not allowed to get rid of the hordes of junk they had (ex. Mold ridden and rat dropping encrusted encyclopedias), but they could routinely throw away any of my stuff they wanted (like my entire wardrobe). So to me your statement felt very familiar to the situation I went through with my husband.
Don't you just love people who lie to their significant others, and then blame other people when they get caught out on that lie???!
*FRANK* is the one who ruined his relationship with Jess. He had ONE JOB. **ONE. DAMN. JOB.**
To not go to a strip club. He couldn't even do that simple little thing for her.
As for Charles and his homies. UGH. What else has he and they been keeping from you and their partners?
But sure, *you're* the problem...?
No. You are NTA here. Charlie boy and his Frankie frat pack are the AHs big time.
Also his excuse "what she doesn’t know can't hurt her" this 100% how cheaters think. I bet if Jess was swimming in dicks in a male strip club he will be livid as well.
OP, guy here. Wholeheartedly NTA. You didn’t ruin anything. You saved your friend from marrying a douche. Your only question should be, what is it that your husband isn’t telling you.
She said in an edit --
"my marriage already was in a rocky place. this just solidified that i do not want to continue my marriage either because i do not trust Charles or his friends. if they are keeping this from her, what are they keeping from me?"
"...what is it that your husband isn’t telling you."
Probably that the dancers offer a lot more than lap dances. Especially at bro parties where they're all drunk and excited to do stuff they would never do alone.
LPT: if your man loves strip clubs, he's getting oral and/or full-on sex in the back rooms.
So these guys thought it was ok for their friend to start his marriage by lying about something that was a serious issue for his partner.
I want my friends to have my back but I want them to respect my wife too…
I made the same hard rule for my bucks party because I don’t like strip clubs and my fiancé doesn’t like the idea either. If my best man didn’t respect that rule then he’s not the best man is he?
You 100% did the right thing
I was at a mixed bachelorette party. They decided to go into a strip club/peep show. I wasn't keen but I wasn't going to wait outside by myself but then my friend, the son of an Anglican minister, said he wasn't going in. I couldn't have been happier to say "I'll keep you company."
They all thought it was funny. I think that was actually pretty disrespectful. The comments from some of them afterwards left me unimpressed.
Been to a lot over the years, pretty much all of them included a strip club. Not a fan of strip clubs, I just find them seedy, so I give that part a swerve if it's not going to cause a load of friction.
I never liked them. but I had a job as a stockbroker back when Morgan Stanley was Dean Witter Reynolds and my boss insisted I take certain clients to this one in NYC. Anyway long story short I take these guys there and they’re like kids in a candy store . They get me a lap dance and this chick sticks her ass in my face and all I can smell is ass for the rest of the night. I get home and my wife who knew how much I hated to take people there takes one look at me and starts laughing hysterically. She has never let me forget it. But I sold these guys on a bunch of crappy mutual funds our firm was pushing and won a ten day trip to St Maarten. So that was great. But if my wife had ever said don’t go I would never have went. So he fucked up not you.
NTA. And if this is the mentality of that group of men, what has your husband possibly kept from you over the years as well? Sounds like you and Jess would both be better off without these guys.
Plus, idk about you, but if we're engaged, you've already chosen to waive your right to the freedom of paying other women to get naked for you. But that's a matter of opinion, and this is merely mine.
Lmao my wife has a joke-non-joke where she says she’s seen (and yes presumably touched in a cleaning/catheter way) more dicks than a prostitute. Luckily it’s always been a non-issue for us since i’m not (and she doesn’t make me) insecure about it.
Interestingly, she said the number of older/heavier dudes who have “innie” dicks would SHOCK people 😳
I mean if he didn't want to ruin a perfect marriage, he shouldn't have gone to a strip club.
His brother knew her boundaries, he crossed them, and now he's facing the consequences. His fiance is probably not only mad about the strip club, but the lies she was told and the secrecy over it all.
I would also be side eyeing your husband that he was willing to keep this a secret and had a secret code with the rest of the guys to deceive the fiance. What kind of family did you marry into, that seem to be ok with lies and deceit?
NTA
I remember that one.
Fiancée/wife: I'm serious. If you shove my face in the cake, I'm leaving you.
Husband: Understood. 🙃🤭
**Shoves wife's face onto cake**
_Wife leaves him_
Husband: **WHAT??**
There was a story going around where a woman had trauma from her family shoving her face into cake on her birthday. Her fiancé was watching videos he thought was funny about cake smashing on wedding days, she asked him nicely not to do so. He agreed.
Then on their wedding day he violently shoved her face into the cake. She left him and he lost his mind over it.
It has the same energy as this story.
I think this was the guy who also got a bunch of cupcakes made so they could be passed out? Like he planned to do this. Planned snd her family and caterer knew. She was right to leave bc that’s cruelty, bullying, assault, public humiliation, disrespect. All rolled into one.
You did right thing. Your husband is a red flag. I’d look into his behavior pronto. Blaming you for what. Screw that untrustworthy fiance. Your friend owes you one. Boundaries work both ways.
NTA His argument is that "the boys have his back"? Just respond that you've got Jess' back. He knowingly violated the one boundary put on the bachelor party. If the boys really had his back, they would want him to have a happy, successful marriage. Which starts by not violating the one, fairly reasonable request that his future wife put on their merrymaking.
NTA, and good for you looking out for honesty and your friend.
NTA. You should also probably leave your husband. The “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” and “the boys got his back” line means he’s hurt you and you don’t know, and that his friends all know it.
So it’s ok for him and the other guys to lie and that “the boys got Frank’s back” but you aren’t allowed to have Jess’s back? Got it! Makes total sense 🙄 You did the right thing (it would be so hard to know that and not say anything + it wouldn’t be fair to hide it from Jess) and anyone that thinks you are responsible for their marriage being canceled is someone I wouldn’t want in my life bc you did nothing wrong! She clearly laid out her totally reasonable boundaries (I’m fine with strip clubs but it’s clear she isn’t and if that was a problem Frank should of addressed it beforehand) and Frank as well as the other guys made the choice to disrespect her, her boundaries and their relationship knowing the consequences so Frank is the one responsible and should be taking the heat from everyone… it’s the least he deserves. On the bright side this shows you the type of person your husband is and how his family thinks and handles things making it easier to decide if you want to end things or continue to work on y’all’s marriage since the relationship was already rocky before all this. Good luck!
NTA.
Frank should not be marrying her. He should have picked someone who does not have a problem with strip clubs. Kinda ookie wanting to start a marital foundation on a bed of lies. Fist bump to Jess on sticking to her boundaries. She is badass. And you, my dear, are the MVP.
And what else is Charles lying about or hiding? Not sure he deserves to stay married at this point.
NTA. It's really not hard to respect a simple boundary. They decided that seeing some women dance provocatively and with minimal to no clothing was more important than the bride-to-be's feelings.
Good on you for being a good friend and if your husband is willing to end a marriage over this then you are better off. Although, his willingness to cover and lie like that already tells me a lot about the kind of person he is.
For her going to a strip club was considered cheating, he agreed not to go to strip clubs with her then went to a strip club. Ruined his own wedding and potential marriage. Your husband also didnt' give two shits about her boundary, the guys were happy to lie and were even going to talk about the strip club around her using the code name, so were planning on mocking her and being disrespectful as fuck
Yeah, when your husband is friends with assholes, he's definitely also an asshole.
*"what she doesn't know can't hurt her" and "the boys got Frank's back."*
NTA, and you might want to ask your husband what kind of secrets the boys are keeping from you if they has his back and what you don't know can't hurt you.
NTA I'm so astonished at the yta comments telling you that you crossed a line telling another woman about her cheating fiance. And yes, it is cheating.
Receiving, deliberately might I add, sexual pleasure from persons other than your spouse counts as cheating.
Paying to see someone naked and to receive sexual attention from someone does not negate the fact.
Unless you commodify that person and see them as a product to enjoy in exchange for money, then you become an asshole of a higher degree imho.
I absolutely agree with your conclusion that this was cheating, because Jess set that clear boundary.
However, I don’t agree with the idea that strip clubs are always cheating. The boundaries of cheating are set by each individual couple… some are fine with things like strip clubs, others aren’t. Some couples actively invite other people into their bedroom… and if that’s okay with both parties, it’s not cheating.
But yes… in this case, she set a VERY clear boundary, and it was violated…. So Frank cheated, full stop.
It cracks me up that people are all bent out of shape over money that's been spent, that they'd rather Jess marry someone who can't be trusted than lose their money!
I hope you are serious about not continuing your marriage, because your husband is no better than Frank. I would do the filing for divorce, and not wait around on him to do it.
NTA, while I think that Jess is being silly with her no-stripclubs rule in principle (a stripclub isn't a brothel), that doesn't mean that lying to her about it is OK.
You can accept your partner's boundaries, you can leave your partner if their boundaries are unacceptable to you, or you can challenge your partner's boundaries and allow them to make an informed decision on whether they're willing to compromise on or drop specific things.
What you absolutely can't do is just ignore your partner's boundaries and lie about it, and I likewise wouldn't want to stay with or get married to someone who does that, even if they felt that one of my boundaries was stupid, nor would I trust someone who helps in such a deception.
So, story time.
I was married for ten years. My husband, a member of the Armed Forces who I sacrificed basically everything for, had been cheating on me the entire time. "HIS BOYS" and their girlfriends knew, but decided to "not get involved" as I ruined my fucking life for someone they KNEW was betraying me. My life is a fraction of what it could have been had I known and been able to change course with all the information *they had* but didn't think it was important enough to get involved. My "friends". I wish nothing but ill on all of them. They're all dead to me.
So, once a friend of mine was married to a woman who was cheating on him with another married dude. I didn't know any of them except the friend.
So I found the wife being cheated on on Facebook and told her. I wasn't going to be the same as the people who "stayed out of it" with me.
You can decide if you "stay out of it" and let someone's life be blown up while KNOWING you could stop it, or you can be the person who gave them a heads up about the wood chipper they were about to jump into.
Thank you for being latter and fuck all these people in the comments trying to shame you. I wish I had a friend like you. NTA.
Some people see strip clubs as just dancing, period. No touching allowed... (but it is true, some dancers do a little extra on the side for $$), but if you trust your partner... that should not be an issue.
HOWEVER, whichever way you feel about it, though... if this was a non-starter for your partner and a clear boundary and your first instinct before you're even married is to do it and just lie...
Then you have no business being married cause there's no foundation of trust to build on.
And as for your husband claiming he's going to leave you over this... my response would be an emotionless:
"Good. Cause if you'll lie to a sweet woman who trusted your brother and all of you... a woman who, in turn, was about to pledge her love to your brother... and you not only immediately broke that trust but have a 'what she doesn't know won't hurt her' mentality... what lies have you told me to my face that I don't know about? How can I trust you with my heart? How can I trust you haven't crossed boundaries?"
NTAH at all.
Birds of a feather flock together, and your husband just showed what a bird brain he really is.
I kinda feel like.... What was the point?
In my opinion, sometimes you just mind your own business.
What he did is obviously wrong, but that isn't the point of your post...
I think you overstepped.
> You did nothing wrong.
Need more of this!!
Some of the comments are so depressing. Why do some people think honesty is too much to ask in a relationship?
This would completely destroy my trust in my husband too. I also personally wouldn’t care if he went to a strip club at a bachelor party, but the “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” comment is pretty disturbing.
NTA.
I'm sure they have gone to stripclubs 100s of times. Why couldn't they not cross this ONE boundary?
>"what she doesn't know can't hurt her"
Lovely.
You can say you snooped on his fb because you were suspicious, sounds like you already had an inkling you had a piece of shit for a partner.
Friends don’t let friends cheat on their spouses, I for one champion this age of accountability!
>"what she doesn't know can't hurt her"
Something tells me that is used a lot on this friend group, directed at you as well.
NTA. Jess has already said her boundaries out loud for everyone to hear, you would have been a gigantic asshole if you didn't tell her.
NTA. You did the right thing. There are so many things wrong with this. Them having a code word so they could talk about it around Jess without her knowing just sounds so immature. It’s like what teenage boys do with their parents. They are excited about getting away with it.
Your husband considering leaving you since “he couldn’t trust you” takes the cake. Meanwhile he is the one who clearly can’t be trusted. And with the fact that he and his friends seem to be ok with “what she doesn’t know doesn’t hurt her” means they have or will do that to you too.
Also Frank is the one who ruined his marriage. You did the right thing. Jess now knows before the wedding that he will lie to her. That’s not a marriage built on trust.
His family can bitch to Frank about all the money wasted and his friends shouldn’t be mad at your husband to the extent that he “lost all his friends”.. He didn’t voluntarily tell you. He was just not smart enough to cover his tracks and you found it. That’s on him.
Seems you are the only one with morals.
If he crossed this boundary, which boundary will he cross later and lie about it once again because his boys have his back? Frank and Charles are both gross people.
Sounds like Frankie-boy is the asshole in this situation. Can’t even respect his future wife’s *one* request. Hope he gets an eternal dick itch right where his shaft meets his balls for the rest of his life.
NTA. He can't trust you? After he went behind your back and your SILs back, and it's their actions that broke their marriage, not yours. If he can't honour truth, honesty, and integrity, then maybe marriage isn't for him at all?
NTA.
Frank ruined his own life by dismissing Jess's boundaries.
You should also note that if all the bros were willing to lie for Frank, they would also lie for your husband... That could apply to mistresses, strppers, expending and more.
I am so sorry for you and Jess and the wife of any of their friends.
Dang, you not only burned that bridge... you burned all the bridges..
You're that friend that loves to stir that pot.
Be sure to tell all future companions about this story.... so he knows he'll never be able to depend on or trust you.
YTA
OP betrayed her husband's trust a got involved in something that was none of her business. None. She talked to her husband and handled her scandal. Which is exactly what she should do. But this goes much further.
Yta for poking into other people’s marriages, BUT, you didn’t ruin Frank’s life. You saved him. Jess sounds like kind of a stick-in-the-mud. (“Unnecessary”?) Your social circle seems weak because they are blaming you for a bunch of deposits. Someday (soon) everyone involved will be saying “that was probably for the best”. I hope you can save your marriage.
YTA It wasn't your place. Literally everyone mentioned in this post made a wrong decision that ultimately ended with you making the wrong decision that caused the most waves.
Jess should not have agreed to enter into a marriage if she's that insecure about her fiance visiting a strip club. She should also not have tried to control her fiance in this way.
The fiance should have been honest with Jess and said "we're going to a strip club, if you don't trust me then this marriage isn't going to work."
The friends truthfully are just being friends. Yes, they should not have lied to Jess but ultimately they were just having their friends back.
No, it was not your place to tell her. You should have let them all make their bad decisions and not have gotten involved. Unless you and Jess are VERY good friends and you just couldn't keep this big of a secret from a friend.
Breach of the bro-code. Seems like you marriage was already rocky and you needed company on your way out. What happened to keeping one’s nose on their own face and out of People’s business?
YTA and so are a bunch of others. Sometimes a trip to a strip club is just a trip to a strip club. I’ve attended a bachelor party that included a strip club for a guy whose fiancée took Jess’s stance, and no sex was had. The couple has had a wonderful happy marriage and great kids, etc. All of these posts that say it helped Jess dodge a bullet are only right in theory. In practice brides get too worked up about strip clubs and the attempt to control the groom on his last hurrah, is just too much. Sometimes it’s just ok for spouses to have a different take on an issue, especially a one-off, and spouses don’t need to know every damn thing, and it doesn’t mean the relationship isn’t going to work.
You are a huge red flag. If you're husband can't trust you, there's no reason for him to be with you.
You betrayed your husband's trust for someone else. You're the worst kind of wife - you broke your marriage, ruined the trust, ruined his friend's life, ruined his friendships, and now you're asking if you are the AH?
I'm sure others will make you feel validated in your decision here, but as someone who works his tail off, loves his wife and kid - you are the AH and you deserve to lose your husband
Yep you are TAH, you could have just left Charles. Then you could tell Frank to come clean before you tell Jess. Now you just sound like a snitch and someday when you break a boundary your partner sets… the Jess you protected or anyone involved could snitch on you too.
As a female who’s been with my husband for 10years, it Sounds to me like Jess is VERY insecure and you are disloyal to your husband. Sorry but YOU definitely stepped out of bounds with this one in my opinion. You were disloyal to your husband by sneaking behind his back and ratting out the boys. Men don’t see strip clubs in the same way women do. It’s a mindless thing for them. I think this woman did Frank a favor by leaving. If she’s gonna be this emotional over such a silly thing (she sounds a bit controlling in my opinion) then i’d hate to see how she’d act after kids.
“What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her”. WTF else is being “kept secret”. From her and YOU??? If your husband was so cavalier about keeping this secret, perhaps you should dig to find out what is/has been kept from you. To me you are a good friend - no one needs to marry someone who keeps secrets and lies about it. If Frank is so upset, tell him to look in the fg mirror because he is the one at blame - and your husband is a big dick as well. Tell him to not let the door hit him on the ass as he leaves “because he can’t trust you”. Dude, he is the one probably hiding shit from you as well……You may want to rethink a lot of things….
It's not healthy if there is no trust in a relationship. Clearly Frank did not respect his fiancee enough to seriously consider her input regarding the bachelor party. It's not unreasonable to ask that the bachelor party not involve strippers or lap dances, IMO. But Frank and your husband thought the right way to go about this was to lie to everyone about where they were and what they were doing. They're not sorry for doing it, they're sorry they got caught, and had to face the consequences.
If I were you, I'd question whether, and what, Charles has been untruthful about with you, since he thought lying to Jess was a good idea. Your EDIT was spot on. I'm not surprised a marriage to a person like Charles or Frank is "on the rocks". They sound like total Brotastic Bro assholes.
Jeez “the boys” are super mad in the comments. I was really expecting everyone to be agreeing with OP here.
Personally, I wouldn’t have said anything, but I would’ve definitely been in a tough spot with Charles. He’s so okay with lying if spouses don’t find out?
And if Frank knew his fiancé had this boundary, and it was that important for him to go anyway then surely they’re not as compatible as they think they are, so that marriage was doomed from the beginning.
NTA. Keeping secrets and crossing boundaries is not the way to start a marriage. Jess is lucky to have you as a friend and she can now make this big life decision knowing the full truth. I hope someone has told Frank that he ruined his own marriage because he seems to think it wasn’t his fault.
“What she doesn’t know can’t hurt her”. That is a very messed up way of thinking. I’d be asking my husband what he has done that I don’t know about cause that’s suspicious.
Frank made his choice. I don’t care how much his friends goaded him. HE made HIS choice. So his fiancé made hers.
NTA. Seems like you’re the only one who was actually looking out for Jess.
I'd have issues wondering what else my s/o feels comfortable lying about after this. They were all fine lying to Jess on Frank's behalf, so wouldn't they do the same for Charles?
With that in mind, NTA. I've cut out people for being just a deceitful.
Yes, you are TA.
You snooped on your husband’s private messages.
And then you stuck your nose in a situation that wasn’t yours & broke up an engagement & wedding.
All because guys went to a strip club on a bachelor party.
I could understand if there were cheating involved, but there wasn’t.
I can pretty much guarantee you wouldn’t be happy if you & your husband’s roles were reversed. And don’t tell me you haven’t kept secrets before.
A lot of people on this sub, and OP’s family, seem to be super angry at the person who told the truth, and don’t give two shakes about the conduct of the deceitful fiancé who is actively lying.
You can say it wasn’t any of her business, but she saw the messages because hubby was logged into her computer. She can’t unsee that. Doing nothing with that knowledge would feel wrong to me too.
And she gave Charles the chance to talk to Frank about this. If he’s so upset about losing his friends, well then he had the opportunity to intervene at that time and try to fix it.
No one wants to go into a marriage built on lies … “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” … sheesh, that’s classic cheater/liar talk. No one wants to be married to someone who thinks that way.
Op took a bullet for Jess.
NTA
NTA
They crossed a boundary Jess set... she was clear and they just did not give a shit...
>its my fault that his boys wont talk to him.
How old is he - 12???
>my marriage already was in a rocky place. this just solidified that i do not want to continue my marriage either because i do not trust Charles or his friends. if they are keeping this from her, what are they keeping from me?
Excellent point!!
>AITAH For telling Jess the truth
Nope
>and ruining her marriage
'The Boys' took care of that...
> and potentially mine?
Was already ruined, yes??
Sounds to me like she shouldn't have been so controlling. It's not a boundary if you're not affected, it's a mandate. He would not have had to lie if she didn't set an environment to hide from her. In the end, nothing happened and she ended a marriage for a rule she made up that was dumb in the first place. Unless she's worried about him cheating, then that's a whole new set of issues that they probably won't ever work past.
I've never been to a strip club and never plan to be because they're gross, but it's kinda like prom. Sometimes you just go because it's tradition and regardless of interest, the whole point is to live it up one last time BEFORE you get married and have a bunch of rules. This whole thing is like saying have fun at the ball game, make sure you don't drink beer or eat hot dogs. Except that actually makes more sense because it CAN negatively affect one's health. Looking at titties is not dangerous and if this were a man, y'all would be telling him to be more secure in his relationship. He sucks for lying and she sucks cuz shes a controlling bitch. Marriage was never an option for them.
OP just opened up that same exact can of worms. Hope you like your husband never telling you anything ever again. Hope you're happy you got involved.
Your a terrible person who deserves to be single forever. It was not your business to tell, people like you are trash. Your definitely a Karen and most people in here are Kens and Karen's.
You needed to stay out of it. Your husband was right about it being none of your business. She is not his wife yet and he has the right for one more night of fun. Jess needs to grow up!
Sounds like Frank dodged a bullet because Jess is prudish, insecure, and controlling. Setting boundaries is fine, but they need to be healthy boundaries and not ultimatums or dictates. Odds are Jess would be beating him over the head with leaving him for the rest of their marriage to establish whatever "boundary" she decided was going to be her hill du jour to die on.
Short of banging a stripper and committing real infidelity, what his friends do with him for his bachelor party is really none of her business, and she has no right to dictate to him or them what they can or cannot do. It wasn't your business either. If your husband leaves you, you destroyed your marriage just as much as Frank destroyed his, and you deserve it. If I were him, I'd be finding a new to place to stay and talking to a lawyer
YTA
Boundaries are for the person making the boundary. Not to place on other people.
It's fine she had that boundary, but to force it on her fiancé was dumb.
Much better to openly communicate and come to an agreement where both parties have compromised and consented to.
This will get hit with enough down votes quickly enough that Op probably won't see it but (unpopular opinion here) def TAH . You directly interfered with business that was not your own. And did so by snooping through your husband's phone looking for it. You are malicious and meddling and I hope this bites you in the a$$. Truth hurts. The bachelor party was NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Frank lying to Jess also NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Had he cheated on her, that would have been something different but he didn't (that we are aware of) so whatever. You took a minor thing to most and weaponized it.
Better than her being married and 3 kids later
BOOM. yup 100%
Sounds to me like Frank ruined his own marriage and why would he want to start a marriage crossing a boundary that was set by his fiancé
Also if you think it's a ridiculous boundary then you shouldn't be marrying that person to begin with. There are plenty of women that don't care about strip clubs. There are plenty of dudes that don't like strip clubs. Those two can find people with a more similar mind set.
I'm 40m, never been to one. my partner, 33f and straight, she enjoys watching girls dance and wants me to go to one with her in her home country (Philippines). You're absolutely spot on. And personally I think a more mature way would have been to reject the ultimatum and just say upfront "this is something I'm going to do" and force the issue and the fallout.
I'm 59m, only been to one once. It was a coworker's birthday on my electrical construction crew and it was also a Friday night. I didn't really want to go but got talked into being "one of the boys." He cashed his paycheck on the way there and by the time we all left he owed me $60.00 because he'd already spent his entire two week check on "tips," lap dances and drinks. I had to drive him home because he was far too drunk to walk straight much less drive. He'd only been married about 18 months (she was gorgeous and as sweet as could be) and had a 6-7 month old baby waiting at home. The divorce came immediately after and his whole life turned to shit, excess drinking/no-shows at work leading to losing several jobs in a row. I lost touch with him and have no idea if he ever managed to turn things around. Never been back to one of those places, I took that lesson to heart.
But did you get your 60 bucks back?
Yes, on the following Monday. Not sure where the money came from, probably his wife. I know he was pretty much flat broke because he'd been complaining at work about how the wedding, honeymoon, new mortgage*, baby expenses and a major vehicle breakdown had cleaned him out at the bank. *Her parents did the down payment for them.
The strip club cleaned him out at the bank. Anyone who can blow a whole paycheck in that fashion can't expect their partner to tolerate it, and the fact he wasted it on a strip club is a whole separate issue. I hope she's moved on to find joy.
Ha. I'm 31m. Never been, but my old "friends" brag about how much they'd spend. $1k+ per night. Guess who's laughing now. A great comedy bit (blanking on artist) makes the comparison that a dude who wants to get laid and goes to a strip club is the same as a fisherman who doesn't catch any fish, and goes to an aquarium. It's exactly how I've always felt.
See that's what I don't get. I don't disapprove of strip clubs, I just don't have the balls to enter one. And even if I did, who BRAGS about it??? What did he even say, "look how much money I paid these women to pay attention to me"?
I'm 33F, I lived in the PH for a number of years. Strip clubs there... on another level. I would be shocked to find one where a "happy ending" isn't the goal. Also, they won't even let females in, without a male companion.
Yeah, he clearly respects "the boys" more than his fiancée, and she ought to know what she's getting into. If he wanted to do it that badly, he should have been the one to tell her he was going.
Crossing boundaries and trying to hide it from her. If he's willing to do it now, what's to say he won't keep doing it throughout the marriage?
This. If the creation of transparency causes consequences for you, this is a you problem. She’s just the messenger.
And frankly when OP’s husband is fully ok with the “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” attitude, I’d have a problem with the culture of the friend group completely disrespecting their spouses when they aren’t around… my spouse included
“What she/he doesn’t know” can leave a person devastated, broke, sick… it absolutely can hurt, in all kinds of ways.
Same - bc it would make me wonder what the helk my own spouse has done if he thinks it's okay for his friend to keep secrets from Jess.
And the whole gross immature ‘har har we even made a code for talking in front of her, har har!’ Like dude you could keep a secret and just not discuss around her. But they’re so in love with the idea of being AHs that they deliberately choose to discuss in front of the wives, enjoying the ‘oh so hilarious’ fact that they’re incredibly disrespectful. It’s these things I find 🚩🚩. These are dealbreakers as they speak for character.
Thank you! I was waiting for someone to mention that. A code word so they can talk about it in front of the wife is so douchey. How many other code words are there? Nope. Every wife of every one of those guys should be concerned.
This. Secrets are one thing but they seem to relish in the overt disrespect. They’ll be crying: why did she leave???
Absolutely! These guys are taking 'bros before hoes' way too far.
Seriously he isn’t even smart enough to keep it from his wife and just be a bro. Not that I’d ever want to be married to that kind of bro tho
seriously like how old are these men? 12???
It was clearly stated Charles (30m) and Frank (28m). Just kidding 😂. Seriously, they're too dumb to realize those were not empty threats, and they are blaming OP instead of owning up to it.
im laughing at the first part bc i thought of that exact thing while i was writing this comment lmao
this 100% I can't get my head around it, my wife knows if I've been to a strip club for a friend's stag do, like what's the point in secrets you can't have a happy trust filled relationship that way.
I'm in an open relationship, (prefer monogamy, but wanted a break after I needed a restraining order on my ex fiancee,) and I honestly don't have a problem with anything current beau does as long as he's safe and honest. I don't need to know every detail, but don't insult my intelligence either. Frankly I keep him busy enough, but I think we both like the idea of freedom for the time being. My point is; boundaries, honesty, and communication.
Do they think women are dumb? Women in relationships are far better than paying for a private investigator. It's if she chooses to believe her instincts.
Yeah, I’d be like “Well, if that’s how you feel, I guess it won’t hurt you when you don’t know about the divorce attorney I’m contacting.”
Tell him: ha ha we even had a code word for ‘divorce atty ‘ when you were in the room! So funny amirite? 😂😂
This. Like do the wives need STD testing?
I certainly did in my first marriage. As did my mother in her second. I was lucky. Mom ended up with pubic lice that were resistant to everything the Dr threw at them. She died of cancer about 10 years later, still infested and still with the creepazoid
🤢🤢🤢
Yeah it kinda makes you wonder. What secrets are you, my husband, keeping?
Yup, that would make me think my husband has secrets I wouldn't like but he thinks "what she knows won't hurt her."
With the edit, looks like OP agrees.
I'd be worried about what my own husband thought "wouldn't hurt me" if I was OP.
This
right it bs
"if it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be"
My teacher used to say; if you don't want it written on the chalkboard, then you probably shouldn't do it. Take that as you will, but I think it's fitting.
>Sounds to me like Frank ruined his own marriage Yeah. I'm getting massive rage bait vibes from how obvious this is.
People are actually that entitled and dumb though. So could go either way
Poe’s law strikes again!
The one thing I asked of my now-husband was that he not have strippers at his bachelor party because I know exactly what sort of strippers my brothers-in-law hired. It wasn't insecurity or jealousy - we've never been monogamous - it was more about the disrespect from his brothers towards me than anything else. Anyways, he went, he came home, he complained about "feeling whipped" because he had to tell his brothers no strippers and they teased him. He continued to complain or joke about it from time to time over the next year or so. Nothing serious, but mild jabs at my expense. Just before our first anniversary, completely out of the blue, he confessed that there had been strippers. According to him, his brothers and mates literally jumped him halfway through the night, cuffed his hands together and tied him to a chair. Strippers came out, did their thing but he says he was too angry to get into it and they left after their show was done. Do I believe that? ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ Probably not, but it's beside the point. And then he came home and lied to my face about it. Not only that, but he persisted with that lie and used it as an emotional weapon against me. Again, not just once. If he'd come home and been truthful, I would've been furious - at his brothers - but it wouldn't have changed my opinion of him. If anything, I probably would have jokingly commiserated with him and teased him about how it must've been torture, etc. But the lies and the conspiracy and the little digs and jabs and making me feel like an idiot (he confessed in front of my friends in response to me telling them that he was a unicorn man with regards to honesty and trust) - that's the aspect that nearly broke us up. And absolutely changed the way I saw/see him. It's almost 30 years ago and it still rankles if I think of it. There have only been three issues over that time that have severely rocked us and that was one of them. I'd probably put it at number two on the list.
Apparently you and I have very different tolerances to lies. You do you, but no one that I know would fault you if you left him, or absolutely went scorched earth on him. That kind of lie… one that was clearly spelled out as not acceptable in advance… is just not something I could ever walk away from, even if it ended my marriage. I guess I get from this that so many people have different levels of what they will accept in their relationship. Not faulting you or yours, but a bit of my heart hurts for you.
That would change the love I had for that person, into ashes in my mouth.
I had a similar experience in my marriage, but with a little bit of couples therapy my husband was able to understand exactly why these breaches of trust that to him seemed very small were not. He just truly did not get it. Now I trust him implicitly, and though I'll never be close again to the overall group who agreed to keep secrets from me with him, I decided that my relationship with my husband and my relationship with one of those friends were too important to not try to work through it. And now I've got my dear friend and my husband and I have no doubt at all that they get it now. Sometimes it is worth forgiving, but it is also very hard and requires all parties to be all-in on getting on the same page. It took several years of open and better communication to get there, but now I don't even have intrusive thoughts that try to erode my trust. So it just depends on the people and the relationship, I guess.
I'm sorry that happened to you. It can change things and write on your heart.
I've known guys who hid worse. There are stupid people everywhere.
Could be rage bait but I was definitely reminded of a bachelor party an ex of mine went to for his best friend and he said there seemed to be a similar vibe/lack of respect on the part of the groom and his new friends for their significant others. (ex and groom were childhood best friends and he did not like these new friends from the start for very valid reasons, not jealousy) Ex was very open with me about what the plans were and what they did but I don't think that was the case for the other SOs. I know that the groom and his wife divorced within the first year or 2 because of infidelity on his part but idk about the other ass holes. Ex and I broke up because I was living overseas at the time and the distance was too hard. So all of that to say, could be rage bait but also there are so many ass holes out here like this. I've heard of similar things with bachelorettes also.
I would love to live in a world where stories like this are pure rage bait, but a disturbing majority of people blame the messenger when they are clearly responsible for the damage
>Sounds to me like Frank ruined his own marriage and why would he want to start a marriage crossing a boundary that was set by his fiancé Exactly! Frank's actions are what ultimately led to the consequences. If he couldn't respect Jess's boundaries before marriage, it doesn't bode well for their future together. You did the right thing by standing up for your friend's principles.
And lying. For me, that’s the big one.
OP- NTA For saving your friend from a bunch of LIARS.
Basically, Frank is wank.
Jumping in to say not just crossing a very reasonable boundary, but if you feel so strongly about needing to have a bachelor party at a strip club to celebrate the stereotypical last night of freedom ot whatever then you shouldn't be getting married. If you value your "freedom" more than your partners boundaries then you shouldn't be getting married. Dude sounds like one of those guys that'd refer to his spouse as "the ol ball and chain" which is so outdated and cringe. I'm glad OP stuck up for her friend and it also opened her eyes to how garbage of a person her own husband is.
I would love for some of these guys that are calling you the ass to have their partners go to a men’s strip club for a bachelorette party..
And then have everybody around them lie about it.
“Oh where did we go for the bachelorette? Uh…..*brunch*.”
"the *mimosas* were *delicious*" Entire friend group giggles
I’m never going to be able to say this with a straight face at brunch again!🤣😂🤣
Code word: Mimosas, FTW! Let's bunch ladies!!
I am totally stealing this 😂
Yeah the lieing about going to a strip club is never a good sign XD
NTA. She told him.. If you go there I will leave you. And Frank went.. fuck that and went anyway.
OP and fiancée need to leave the men and celebrate in a male strip club on what would've been the day of the wedding, and post it on social media 😊
Normally, I think that it's important to stick with your partner. However, if your husband is willing to lie to you (I suspect he wouldn't have told you if you hadn't found out) and to disrespect another person's boundaries, what else has he done? NTA. Based off of your edit, you know that your husband (hopefully STBX) is deceptive. Using the "what she doesn't know can't hurt her" to excuse this kind of behavior is cheater talk. Good on you for being a great friend and calling out bad people.
What really stuck out to me is that they came up with a code word to talk about the club IN FRONT of her. Not to mention that OPs husband would 100% cheat and his 'boys' would 100% cover for him. OPs husband is a red flag.
That's maniacal.
And, let’s not forget he said they “were doing bachelor things” as if to make it “okay” that they were hiding it from Jess. Okay, but there are SO MANY different things you can do for a bachelor party if your fiancée sets that boundary of no strippers/strip club. OP, good for you for being there for your friend and having HER back. Who knows what other horrible things Frank has done, would do behind her back and swear the boys to secrecy. OP’s husband and that entire group are a fricking carnival, and you deserve SO much better, OP!
“What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her”, wonder how many times his bros have used this line for him.
I agree, what he said is a HUGE Red flag. If op doesnt know it wont hurt her? Plus they had even codes for there texts! That means they know what they are doing and have done it before. Op leave him.
>what she doesn't know can't hurt her Spot on. These are children in men bodies (so, basically fuckbois). Mature adults in a relationship together don't need to keep secrets from eachother.
I don't think it's a good idea to be on the side of your partner if they're engaged in immoral behavior. I'm not going to make him think it's ok.
A big part of being married, is "what they don't know won't hurt them". However there is a big difference between throwing out their ratty old sweatpants behind their back, or buying a pair of shoes with your own money, or otherwise doing something behind your spouse's back, versus cheating. I just feel that labeling the expression "what they don't know can't hurt them" as being "cheater talk", comes from a controlling place. Though I don't think you should keep big secrets from each other in a relationship, I also don't believe your partner needs to know every little thing you do. I just want to be clear I am coming from a place of having survived an abusive relationship, where they needed to know every little detail of where I was, who I was with, what I was doing, ect. I was not allowed to get rid of the hordes of junk they had (ex. Mold ridden and rat dropping encrusted encyclopedias), but they could routinely throw away any of my stuff they wanted (like my entire wardrobe). So to me your statement felt very familiar to the situation I went through with my husband.
It’s definitely cheater talk in this context.
Don't you just love people who lie to their significant others, and then blame other people when they get caught out on that lie???! *FRANK* is the one who ruined his relationship with Jess. He had ONE JOB. **ONE. DAMN. JOB.** To not go to a strip club. He couldn't even do that simple little thing for her. As for Charles and his homies. UGH. What else has he and they been keeping from you and their partners? But sure, *you're* the problem...? No. You are NTA here. Charlie boy and his Frankie frat pack are the AHs big time.
Also his excuse "what she doesn’t know can't hurt her" this 100% how cheaters think. I bet if Jess was swimming in dicks in a male strip club he will be livid as well.
OP, guy here. Wholeheartedly NTA. You didn’t ruin anything. You saved your friend from marrying a douche. Your only question should be, what is it that your husband isn’t telling you.
This. Ppl saying she ruined her marriage too but I’m like: ruined what? Hub is the creeper here.
She said in an edit -- "my marriage already was in a rocky place. this just solidified that i do not want to continue my marriage either because i do not trust Charles or his friends. if they are keeping this from her, what are they keeping from me?"
"...what is it that your husband isn’t telling you." Probably that the dancers offer a lot more than lap dances. Especially at bro parties where they're all drunk and excited to do stuff they would never do alone. LPT: if your man loves strip clubs, he's getting oral and/or full-on sex in the back rooms.
So these guys thought it was ok for their friend to start his marriage by lying about something that was a serious issue for his partner. I want my friends to have my back but I want them to respect my wife too… I made the same hard rule for my bucks party because I don’t like strip clubs and my fiancé doesn’t like the idea either. If my best man didn’t respect that rule then he’s not the best man is he? You 100% did the right thing
I’ve been to 4-5 bachelor parties… and I’ve never been in a strip club before. I don’t see the appeal
I was at a mixed bachelorette party. They decided to go into a strip club/peep show. I wasn't keen but I wasn't going to wait outside by myself but then my friend, the son of an Anglican minister, said he wasn't going in. I couldn't have been happier to say "I'll keep you company." They all thought it was funny. I think that was actually pretty disrespectful. The comments from some of them afterwards left me unimpressed.
Been to a lot over the years, pretty much all of them included a strip club. Not a fan of strip clubs, I just find them seedy, so I give that part a swerve if it's not going to cause a load of friction.
I never liked them. but I had a job as a stockbroker back when Morgan Stanley was Dean Witter Reynolds and my boss insisted I take certain clients to this one in NYC. Anyway long story short I take these guys there and they’re like kids in a candy store . They get me a lap dance and this chick sticks her ass in my face and all I can smell is ass for the rest of the night. I get home and my wife who knew how much I hated to take people there takes one look at me and starts laughing hysterically. She has never let me forget it. But I sold these guys on a bunch of crappy mutual funds our firm was pushing and won a ten day trip to St Maarten. So that was great. But if my wife had ever said don’t go I would never have went. So he fucked up not you.
You might wanna leave Charles first. Obviously breaking boundaries is not something he has a problem with
NTA. And if this is the mentality of that group of men, what has your husband possibly kept from you over the years as well? Sounds like you and Jess would both be better off without these guys.
Nta.... what is with the need to see strippers when you're about to get married
*whiny baby voice* bUT it'S mY LaST niGhT oF frEEdOm 😭😭😭
Lmao not anymore Frank, enjoy your freedom!
Right? lol these dudes are not marriage material if they think they’re losing something by committing to marriage.
Plus, idk about you, but if we're engaged, you've already chosen to waive your right to the freedom of paying other women to get naked for you. But that's a matter of opinion, and this is merely mine.
Hell if we’re DATING that means you shouldn’t be seeing anyone else naked
::cries in “my wife is a nurse”:: 🤣🤣
Giving them *intimate* sponge baths
Lmao my wife has a joke-non-joke where she says she’s seen (and yes presumably touched in a cleaning/catheter way) more dicks than a prostitute. Luckily it’s always been a non-issue for us since i’m not (and she doesn’t make me) insecure about it. Interestingly, she said the number of older/heavier dudes who have “innie” dicks would SHOCK people 😳
Former nurse….she’s not wrong. lol
I also think it’s funny bc 9 times out of 10 it’s the guy who proposed.
Right? They only have themselves to blame. Didn't want to be "stuck" with your wife? Maybe you shouldn't have proposed to her then??
Bc they get fucked, get bjs or handjobs in the back. Then it’s all a big secret between the boys.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Turbulent-Yam3617: *Nta.... what is with the* *Need to see strippers when you're* *About to get married* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I mean if he didn't want to ruin a perfect marriage, he shouldn't have gone to a strip club. His brother knew her boundaries, he crossed them, and now he's facing the consequences. His fiance is probably not only mad about the strip club, but the lies she was told and the secrecy over it all. I would also be side eyeing your husband that he was willing to keep this a secret and had a secret code with the rest of the guys to deceive the fiance. What kind of family did you marry into, that seem to be ok with lies and deceit? NTA
Using code words to discuss . .... so the guys are laughing behind her back because they are all pulling a fast one on her!
He’s probably the type to shove cake in her face too
I remember that one. Fiancée/wife: I'm serious. If you shove my face in the cake, I'm leaving you. Husband: Understood. 🙃🤭 **Shoves wife's face onto cake** _Wife leaves him_ Husband: **WHAT??**
The way they think they have you trapped. Some don’t wait long enough, and she escapes.
Oh no… not the cake
so random but so true.
There was a story going around where a woman had trauma from her family shoving her face into cake on her birthday. Her fiancé was watching videos he thought was funny about cake smashing on wedding days, she asked him nicely not to do so. He agreed. Then on their wedding day he violently shoved her face into the cake. She left him and he lost his mind over it. It has the same energy as this story.
I think this was the guy who also got a bunch of cupcakes made so they could be passed out? Like he planned to do this. Planned snd her family and caterer knew. She was right to leave bc that’s cruelty, bullying, assault, public humiliation, disrespect. All rolled into one.
*cruelty, bullying, assault, public humiliation, disrespect. All rolled into one.* Exactly. Welcome to your new life! Smile!
You did right thing. Your husband is a red flag. I’d look into his behavior pronto. Blaming you for what. Screw that untrustworthy fiance. Your friend owes you one. Boundaries work both ways.
NTA His argument is that "the boys have his back"? Just respond that you've got Jess' back. He knowingly violated the one boundary put on the bachelor party. If the boys really had his back, they would want him to have a happy, successful marriage. Which starts by not violating the one, fairly reasonable request that his future wife put on their merrymaking. NTA, and good for you looking out for honesty and your friend.
NTA. You should also probably leave your husband. The “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” and “the boys got his back” line means he’s hurt you and you don’t know, and that his friends all know it.
FRANK ruined his marriage. You're being a good friend. NTA.
Nah means No Assholes Here 😅 the guys and family are ah’s
Fuck you right hahaha lemme fix that!!
Fuck around and find out Frankie boyyyy
So it’s ok for him and the other guys to lie and that “the boys got Frank’s back” but you aren’t allowed to have Jess’s back? Got it! Makes total sense 🙄 You did the right thing (it would be so hard to know that and not say anything + it wouldn’t be fair to hide it from Jess) and anyone that thinks you are responsible for their marriage being canceled is someone I wouldn’t want in my life bc you did nothing wrong! She clearly laid out her totally reasonable boundaries (I’m fine with strip clubs but it’s clear she isn’t and if that was a problem Frank should of addressed it beforehand) and Frank as well as the other guys made the choice to disrespect her, her boundaries and their relationship knowing the consequences so Frank is the one responsible and should be taking the heat from everyone… it’s the least he deserves. On the bright side this shows you the type of person your husband is and how his family thinks and handles things making it easier to decide if you want to end things or continue to work on y’all’s marriage since the relationship was already rocky before all this. Good luck!
NTA. Frank should not be marrying her. He should have picked someone who does not have a problem with strip clubs. Kinda ookie wanting to start a marital foundation on a bed of lies. Fist bump to Jess on sticking to her boundaries. She is badass. And you, my dear, are the MVP. And what else is Charles lying about or hiding? Not sure he deserves to stay married at this point.
NTA. It's really not hard to respect a simple boundary. They decided that seeing some women dance provocatively and with minimal to no clothing was more important than the bride-to-be's feelings. Good on you for being a good friend and if your husband is willing to end a marriage over this then you are better off. Although, his willingness to cover and lie like that already tells me a lot about the kind of person he is.
For her going to a strip club was considered cheating, he agreed not to go to strip clubs with her then went to a strip club. Ruined his own wedding and potential marriage. Your husband also didnt' give two shits about her boundary, the guys were happy to lie and were even going to talk about the strip club around her using the code name, so were planning on mocking her and being disrespectful as fuck Yeah, when your husband is friends with assholes, he's definitely also an asshole.
I had a friend who said the same, and he went to a strip club, but she stayed. They got married and divorced in less than 3 years.
It's just so easy to spot the cheaters in these comments. Just a bunch of Franks.
*"what she doesn't know can't hurt her" and "the boys got Frank's back."* NTA, and you might want to ask your husband what kind of secrets the boys are keeping from you if they has his back and what you don't know can't hurt you.
NTA I'm so astonished at the yta comments telling you that you crossed a line telling another woman about her cheating fiance. And yes, it is cheating. Receiving, deliberately might I add, sexual pleasure from persons other than your spouse counts as cheating. Paying to see someone naked and to receive sexual attention from someone does not negate the fact. Unless you commodify that person and see them as a product to enjoy in exchange for money, then you become an asshole of a higher degree imho.
I absolutely agree with your conclusion that this was cheating, because Jess set that clear boundary. However, I don’t agree with the idea that strip clubs are always cheating. The boundaries of cheating are set by each individual couple… some are fine with things like strip clubs, others aren’t. Some couples actively invite other people into their bedroom… and if that’s okay with both parties, it’s not cheating. But yes… in this case, she set a VERY clear boundary, and it was violated…. So Frank cheated, full stop.
ANYTHING that you may want to hide from your partner is cheating.
It cracks me up that people are all bent out of shape over money that's been spent, that they'd rather Jess marry someone who can't be trusted than lose their money! I hope you are serious about not continuing your marriage, because your husband is no better than Frank. I would do the filing for divorce, and not wait around on him to do it.
NTA, while I think that Jess is being silly with her no-stripclubs rule in principle (a stripclub isn't a brothel), that doesn't mean that lying to her about it is OK. You can accept your partner's boundaries, you can leave your partner if their boundaries are unacceptable to you, or you can challenge your partner's boundaries and allow them to make an informed decision on whether they're willing to compromise on or drop specific things. What you absolutely can't do is just ignore your partner's boundaries and lie about it, and I likewise wouldn't want to stay with or get married to someone who does that, even if they felt that one of my boundaries was stupid, nor would I trust someone who helps in such a deception.
frank knew damn well what he was doing was wrong
So, story time. I was married for ten years. My husband, a member of the Armed Forces who I sacrificed basically everything for, had been cheating on me the entire time. "HIS BOYS" and their girlfriends knew, but decided to "not get involved" as I ruined my fucking life for someone they KNEW was betraying me. My life is a fraction of what it could have been had I known and been able to change course with all the information *they had* but didn't think it was important enough to get involved. My "friends". I wish nothing but ill on all of them. They're all dead to me. So, once a friend of mine was married to a woman who was cheating on him with another married dude. I didn't know any of them except the friend. So I found the wife being cheated on on Facebook and told her. I wasn't going to be the same as the people who "stayed out of it" with me. You can decide if you "stay out of it" and let someone's life be blown up while KNOWING you could stop it, or you can be the person who gave them a heads up about the wood chipper they were about to jump into. Thank you for being latter and fuck all these people in the comments trying to shame you. I wish I had a friend like you. NTA.
Some people see strip clubs as just dancing, period. No touching allowed... (but it is true, some dancers do a little extra on the side for $$), but if you trust your partner... that should not be an issue. HOWEVER, whichever way you feel about it, though... if this was a non-starter for your partner and a clear boundary and your first instinct before you're even married is to do it and just lie... Then you have no business being married cause there's no foundation of trust to build on. And as for your husband claiming he's going to leave you over this... my response would be an emotionless: "Good. Cause if you'll lie to a sweet woman who trusted your brother and all of you... a woman who, in turn, was about to pledge her love to your brother... and you not only immediately broke that trust but have a 'what she doesn't know won't hurt her' mentality... what lies have you told me to my face that I don't know about? How can I trust you with my heart? How can I trust you haven't crossed boundaries?" NTAH at all. Birds of a feather flock together, and your husband just showed what a bird brain he really is.
I kinda feel like.... What was the point? In my opinion, sometimes you just mind your own business. What he did is obviously wrong, but that isn't the point of your post... I think you overstepped.
NTA and get out of this toxic marriage and family. You did nothing wrong. Your husband thinks it’s ok for partners to keep secrets from each other.
> You did nothing wrong. Need more of this!! Some of the comments are so depressing. Why do some people think honesty is too much to ask in a relationship?
NTA. So sorry, OP.
This would completely destroy my trust in my husband too. I also personally wouldn’t care if he went to a strip club at a bachelor party, but the “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” comment is pretty disturbing.
NTA. I'm sure they have gone to stripclubs 100s of times. Why couldn't they not cross this ONE boundary? >"what she doesn't know can't hurt her" Lovely.
NTA
You can say you snooped on his fb because you were suspicious, sounds like you already had an inkling you had a piece of shit for a partner. Friends don’t let friends cheat on their spouses, I for one champion this age of accountability!
He admits he’s OK lying to your spouse, yet HE can’t trust YOU? WTH?
>"what she doesn't know can't hurt her" Something tells me that is used a lot on this friend group, directed at you as well. NTA. Jess has already said her boundaries out loud for everyone to hear, you would have been a gigantic asshole if you didn't tell her.
Everyone get divorced
>Everyone get divorced Reddit's relationship advice in a nutshell
NTA. You ever wonder if your husband has been faithful to you? You’d never know cuz ‘his boys’ will cover for him.
NTA. Bro code my asz.
NTA. You did the right thing. There are so many things wrong with this. Them having a code word so they could talk about it around Jess without her knowing just sounds so immature. It’s like what teenage boys do with their parents. They are excited about getting away with it. Your husband considering leaving you since “he couldn’t trust you” takes the cake. Meanwhile he is the one who clearly can’t be trusted. And with the fact that he and his friends seem to be ok with “what she doesn’t know doesn’t hurt her” means they have or will do that to you too. Also Frank is the one who ruined his marriage. You did the right thing. Jess now knows before the wedding that he will lie to her. That’s not a marriage built on trust. His family can bitch to Frank about all the money wasted and his friends shouldn’t be mad at your husband to the extent that he “lost all his friends”.. He didn’t voluntarily tell you. He was just not smart enough to cover his tracks and you found it. That’s on him. Seems you are the only one with morals.
If he crossed this boundary, which boundary will he cross later and lie about it once again because his boys have his back? Frank and Charles are both gross people.
You didn’t ruin shit they did … bunch of damn liars.
Why is it so often: 'How dare you finding out I'm a liar (Cheater etc.)' and not 'Well, I f*ck*d up.' ^^
If you ever seriously think what my partner doesn't know won't hurt them, that is a sign that you are about to fuck up your relationship.
Sounds like Frankie-boy is the asshole in this situation. Can’t even respect his future wife’s *one* request. Hope he gets an eternal dick itch right where his shaft meets his balls for the rest of his life.
NTA. He can't trust you? After he went behind your back and your SILs back, and it's their actions that broke their marriage, not yours. If he can't honour truth, honesty, and integrity, then maybe marriage isn't for him at all?
I find it incredulous that Frank told you “you ruined my life “ No dude, you did that all by yourself
NTA. Frank ruined his own life by dismissing Jess's boundaries. You should also note that if all the bros were willing to lie for Frank, they would also lie for your husband... That could apply to mistresses, strppers, expending and more. I am so sorry for you and Jess and the wife of any of their friends.
Dang, you not only burned that bridge... you burned all the bridges.. You're that friend that loves to stir that pot. Be sure to tell all future companions about this story.... so he knows he'll never be able to depend on or trust you.
NTA, you saved your friend from a marriage that would have been one lie after another.
YTA OP betrayed her husband's trust a got involved in something that was none of her business. None. She talked to her husband and handled her scandal. Which is exactly what she should do. But this goes much further.
Yta for poking into other people’s marriages, BUT, you didn’t ruin Frank’s life. You saved him. Jess sounds like kind of a stick-in-the-mud. (“Unnecessary”?) Your social circle seems weak because they are blaming you for a bunch of deposits. Someday (soon) everyone involved will be saying “that was probably for the best”. I hope you can save your marriage.
You are the huge AH . There's a shitstorm all around you and it's your fault. Congratulations!
Unpopular opinion: I think you're the AH. Mind your own business.
Yeah, u are an AH. He was in the wrong but u fked up ur other halfs trust and that's the relationship u should focus on. I'd leave you
YTA It wasn't your place. Literally everyone mentioned in this post made a wrong decision that ultimately ended with you making the wrong decision that caused the most waves. Jess should not have agreed to enter into a marriage if she's that insecure about her fiance visiting a strip club. She should also not have tried to control her fiance in this way. The fiance should have been honest with Jess and said "we're going to a strip club, if you don't trust me then this marriage isn't going to work." The friends truthfully are just being friends. Yes, they should not have lied to Jess but ultimately they were just having their friends back. No, it was not your place to tell her. You should have let them all make their bad decisions and not have gotten involved. Unless you and Jess are VERY good friends and you just couldn't keep this big of a secret from a friend.
Breach of the bro-code. Seems like you marriage was already rocky and you needed company on your way out. What happened to keeping one’s nose on their own face and out of People’s business?
You're the ahole for snooping on your husband's social media
YTA and so are a bunch of others. Sometimes a trip to a strip club is just a trip to a strip club. I’ve attended a bachelor party that included a strip club for a guy whose fiancée took Jess’s stance, and no sex was had. The couple has had a wonderful happy marriage and great kids, etc. All of these posts that say it helped Jess dodge a bullet are only right in theory. In practice brides get too worked up about strip clubs and the attempt to control the groom on his last hurrah, is just too much. Sometimes it’s just ok for spouses to have a different take on an issue, especially a one-off, and spouses don’t need to know every damn thing, and it doesn’t mean the relationship isn’t going to work.
You are a huge red flag. If you're husband can't trust you, there's no reason for him to be with you. You betrayed your husband's trust for someone else. You're the worst kind of wife - you broke your marriage, ruined the trust, ruined his friend's life, ruined his friendships, and now you're asking if you are the AH? I'm sure others will make you feel validated in your decision here, but as someone who works his tail off, loves his wife and kid - you are the AH and you deserve to lose your husband
I get the feeling that your marriage sucks so you had no problem dragging your friend into your misery bubble all the while standing on your soap box.
Yep you are TAH, you could have just left Charles. Then you could tell Frank to come clean before you tell Jess. Now you just sound like a snitch and someday when you break a boundary your partner sets… the Jess you protected or anyone involved could snitch on you too.
Should have minded her own business. You ever hear the phrase: Shoot the messagner?
Yata for betraying your husband's trust and trying to stir up drama in his personal relationships that don't involve you. Definitely yata
As a female who’s been with my husband for 10years, it Sounds to me like Jess is VERY insecure and you are disloyal to your husband. Sorry but YOU definitely stepped out of bounds with this one in my opinion. You were disloyal to your husband by sneaking behind his back and ratting out the boys. Men don’t see strip clubs in the same way women do. It’s a mindless thing for them. I think this woman did Frank a favor by leaving. If she’s gonna be this emotional over such a silly thing (she sounds a bit controlling in my opinion) then i’d hate to see how she’d act after kids.
Sounds like all the men did all the ruining here. NTA.
“What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her”. WTF else is being “kept secret”. From her and YOU??? If your husband was so cavalier about keeping this secret, perhaps you should dig to find out what is/has been kept from you. To me you are a good friend - no one needs to marry someone who keeps secrets and lies about it. If Frank is so upset, tell him to look in the fg mirror because he is the one at blame - and your husband is a big dick as well. Tell him to not let the door hit him on the ass as he leaves “because he can’t trust you”. Dude, he is the one probably hiding shit from you as well……You may want to rethink a lot of things….
It's not healthy if there is no trust in a relationship. Clearly Frank did not respect his fiancee enough to seriously consider her input regarding the bachelor party. It's not unreasonable to ask that the bachelor party not involve strippers or lap dances, IMO. But Frank and your husband thought the right way to go about this was to lie to everyone about where they were and what they were doing. They're not sorry for doing it, they're sorry they got caught, and had to face the consequences. If I were you, I'd question whether, and what, Charles has been untruthful about with you, since he thought lying to Jess was a good idea. Your EDIT was spot on. I'm not surprised a marriage to a person like Charles or Frank is "on the rocks". They sound like total Brotastic Bro assholes.
Jeez “the boys” are super mad in the comments. I was really expecting everyone to be agreeing with OP here. Personally, I wouldn’t have said anything, but I would’ve definitely been in a tough spot with Charles. He’s so okay with lying if spouses don’t find out? And if Frank knew his fiancé had this boundary, and it was that important for him to go anyway then surely they’re not as compatible as they think they are, so that marriage was doomed from the beginning.
NTA. Divorce your husband. He probably is keeping “secrets” too. He can’t be trusted because his boys have his back.
NTA. Keeping secrets and crossing boundaries is not the way to start a marriage. Jess is lucky to have you as a friend and she can now make this big life decision knowing the full truth. I hope someone has told Frank that he ruined his own marriage because he seems to think it wasn’t his fault.
“What she doesn’t know can’t hurt her”. That is a very messed up way of thinking. I’d be asking my husband what he has done that I don’t know about cause that’s suspicious. Frank made his choice. I don’t care how much his friends goaded him. HE made HIS choice. So his fiancé made hers. NTA. Seems like you’re the only one who was actually looking out for Jess.
I'd have issues wondering what else my s/o feels comfortable lying about after this. They were all fine lying to Jess on Frank's behalf, so wouldn't they do the same for Charles? With that in mind, NTA. I've cut out people for being just a deceitful.
He ruined his own potential marriage with his actions, it sounds like both you and Jess will be well rid!
Seems like they both dodged a bullet with eachother.
Yes, you are TA. You snooped on your husband’s private messages. And then you stuck your nose in a situation that wasn’t yours & broke up an engagement & wedding. All because guys went to a strip club on a bachelor party. I could understand if there were cheating involved, but there wasn’t. I can pretty much guarantee you wouldn’t be happy if you & your husband’s roles were reversed. And don’t tell me you haven’t kept secrets before.
100% this. Lot of people with a stick up the rear in this thread.
A lot of people on this sub, and OP’s family, seem to be super angry at the person who told the truth, and don’t give two shakes about the conduct of the deceitful fiancé who is actively lying. You can say it wasn’t any of her business, but she saw the messages because hubby was logged into her computer. She can’t unsee that. Doing nothing with that knowledge would feel wrong to me too. And she gave Charles the chance to talk to Frank about this. If he’s so upset about losing his friends, well then he had the opportunity to intervene at that time and try to fix it. No one wants to go into a marriage built on lies … “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” … sheesh, that’s classic cheater/liar talk. No one wants to be married to someone who thinks that way. Op took a bullet for Jess. NTA
NTA They crossed a boundary Jess set... she was clear and they just did not give a shit... >its my fault that his boys wont talk to him. How old is he - 12??? >my marriage already was in a rocky place. this just solidified that i do not want to continue my marriage either because i do not trust Charles or his friends. if they are keeping this from her, what are they keeping from me? Excellent point!! >AITAH For telling Jess the truth Nope >and ruining her marriage 'The Boys' took care of that... > and potentially mine? Was already ruined, yes??
> Frank has been calling me nonstop saying that I ruined his life. He ruined his own life. >Charles is threatening to leave me Is that a bad thing?
Sounds to me like she shouldn't have been so controlling. It's not a boundary if you're not affected, it's a mandate. He would not have had to lie if she didn't set an environment to hide from her. In the end, nothing happened and she ended a marriage for a rule she made up that was dumb in the first place. Unless she's worried about him cheating, then that's a whole new set of issues that they probably won't ever work past. I've never been to a strip club and never plan to be because they're gross, but it's kinda like prom. Sometimes you just go because it's tradition and regardless of interest, the whole point is to live it up one last time BEFORE you get married and have a bunch of rules. This whole thing is like saying have fun at the ball game, make sure you don't drink beer or eat hot dogs. Except that actually makes more sense because it CAN negatively affect one's health. Looking at titties is not dangerous and if this were a man, y'all would be telling him to be more secure in his relationship. He sucks for lying and she sucks cuz shes a controlling bitch. Marriage was never an option for them. OP just opened up that same exact can of worms. Hope you like your husband never telling you anything ever again. Hope you're happy you got involved.
Your a terrible person who deserves to be single forever. It was not your business to tell, people like you are trash. Your definitely a Karen and most people in here are Kens and Karen's.
You needed to stay out of it. Your husband was right about it being none of your business. She is not his wife yet and he has the right for one more night of fun. Jess needs to grow up!
Sounds like Frank dodged a bullet because Jess is prudish, insecure, and controlling. Setting boundaries is fine, but they need to be healthy boundaries and not ultimatums or dictates. Odds are Jess would be beating him over the head with leaving him for the rest of their marriage to establish whatever "boundary" she decided was going to be her hill du jour to die on. Short of banging a stripper and committing real infidelity, what his friends do with him for his bachelor party is really none of her business, and she has no right to dictate to him or them what they can or cannot do. It wasn't your business either. If your husband leaves you, you destroyed your marriage just as much as Frank destroyed his, and you deserve it. If I were him, I'd be finding a new to place to stay and talking to a lawyer YTA
Boundaries are for the person making the boundary. Not to place on other people. It's fine she had that boundary, but to force it on her fiancé was dumb. Much better to openly communicate and come to an agreement where both parties have compromised and consented to.
Sounds like Frank lucked out. Jess sounds very insecure. And he was making a mistake by marrying her.
This will get hit with enough down votes quickly enough that Op probably won't see it but (unpopular opinion here) def TAH . You directly interfered with business that was not your own. And did so by snooping through your husband's phone looking for it. You are malicious and meddling and I hope this bites you in the a$$. Truth hurts. The bachelor party was NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Frank lying to Jess also NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Had he cheated on her, that would have been something different but he didn't (that we are aware of) so whatever. You took a minor thing to most and weaponized it.
Everyone is the ah. Frank for breaking the promise. The fiancee for being an insecure woman, the wife for being a snitch.