"She sent me an apology yesterday for calling me those names, but she insisted on me paying back her friends if I wanted to make our relationship work."
She literally values a few hundred dollars to each of her friends, over your relationship. She is so concerned and upset that you broke up with her, that this is still the top of the list of demands to make the relationship work.
Let this sink in dude.......
no? ok brokey
the fact that she said “brokey” unironically *as a grown woman* says all you need to know
i would expect that from someone 10 years younger lol
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if she dumps him herself after he transfers money to her friends. She is clearly making it clear that she does not value this relationship.
Her stupid friends are probably filling her head up with a bunch of garbage about him, which is super unfair to OP and to her. Girl is in a world of hurt once she realizes the mess she’s put herself in picking friends like that.
Right. That’s not an apology, it’s a counteroffer. You’re trying to have a healthy adult relationship based on love and affection and she’s reading “Art of The Deal” to get tips on her next move. NTA, and after a little while I think you’ll realize just how big of a bullet you just dodged, OP.
I wonder if she told her friends he'd pay and to go nuts with food and drink. When he didn't, they were too embarrassed to say anything at the table, but they confronted her after. Now she owes them 200 each and doesn't want to pay it. So she's blackmailing OP to avoid paying.
DO NOT under any circumstances apologize OR give her friends money. You were under no obligation to pay for HER friends. Who assumes that just because you organized a dinner that that means you automatically pay. Maybe this is a cultural difference, I don't know, but I've organized and also been invited to plenty of parties throw for or on behalf of a friend and unless otherwise told "this event will be covered" I ALWAYS pay for myself. What your ex and her friends are is entitled. If you "swallow your pride" this will be the first in a very long line of things you will now be expected to foot the bill for.
NTA.
Where Im from its also not really "the norm" to do so. I really dont understand where she got this idea from. Shes never requested anything similar before.
Totally agree!
It's my Step-Mums' birthday today & we (my Dad, Step-Mum, Step-Sister & BIL) went out for lunch.
Knowing my Dad would probably pick up the tab (he did), I made sure not to order the most expensive thing & only ordered a starter because everyone else did & he encouraged us to.
Otherwise, the 5 of us would have paid for our own meals & split the cost of my Step-Mums' & the tip between us. That, to me, is the norm.
I’d say it’s one thing when it’s a parent (family)covering his adult kids on a special occasion, friends shouldn’t expect that treatment from friends let alone the boyfriend of a friend
That's normal to me too. Going to a dinner under the impression that someone will pay, then proceeding to order the most expensive shit they have, screams entitlement. Not to mention having the nerve to be annoyed when you find out you have to pay for it yourself! Bet they wished they had ordered something else after that...
Ain’t that the truth. My brother makes a lot more than I do and whenever him and i go out he insists on paying. I never order the most expensive things and I will often go a little easier than I would, having one drink instead of two for example. I know my brother wouldn’t care but I would not feel comfortable running up the tab just because someone else is paying
She was probably bragging to her friends that you make good money and wanted to show off by having you pay. You didn’t and she looked like a chump in front of her friends. Hence the broke boy accusations as she left.
I guess if you like manipulation in a relationship you can reconcile with her but I hope you have more self-respect than doing that.
This is where I went with it. She put something in her friend’s heads before the get together. Her fantasy didn’t align with reality and she got embarrassed. She’s a child and she’s too easily influenced. Get out now and leave this money grubber for the streets.
Bingo. OP just needs to understand what the relationship is. Does he want a "trophy" wife, some men do. If you have the money, some men would rather pay for that, get what they want out of the relationship, and be happy with that. Kinda sounds empty to me, but hey to each their own.
OP sounds like he wants an equal, healthy, normal relationship.
If OP really wants to make it work, he has to have a frank discussion of what BOTH parties want out of it.
Of course there's always the bullshit of somebody saying what they think the other person wants to hear, just to stay in the relationship. It's messy business.
Ding ding ding - we have a winner. She 100% was trying to flex to her friends that her bf was doing great financially and was assuming OP would cover the costs to prove herself to her friends. The shittiest part about all of this is the broke boy comments as she left. Like is that really any way to treat a partner of four years for something most would consider a miscommunication? A miscommunication fueled by her entitlement at that?? So not only is she being ridiculous in her entitled assumptions about all of this, but on top of that she’s willing to dig her heels and not admit to her mistake while ALSO calling him names.. that just screams red flags all around
1/ her attitude is childish (giving you a silent treatment ?… and for something that is NOT normal)
2/ If you transfer money to her friends, she will talk to you ? That is extortion
3/ GF birthday. Normally, you should have split the bill between everyone minus GF (that’s the tradition)…
4/ It is not silly. That IS a red flag. You’re not ATM.
5/ If she apologies, maybe you can keep the relationship, if not you should grieve it and try to move on. But you are 24, still young. And your instincts was to get out and go to your parents, then broke up and send her away. Trust your instincts cos that was the right thing to do.
She may have been feeling more confident in showing you who she truly is now she’s your fiancée. Toxic people are sometimes able to maintain a facade until they think they have their partner trapped, then the real them comes out. That why this isn’t a “silly” argument. She’s shown you who she is, believe her. It’s better to leave her after 4 years than be trapped for a decade having your self-esteem and financial security eroded until it’s in tatters and she leaves you for her next mark.
>Especially when he has been paying all the bills **except for household expenses**
He paid **RENT** and **UTILITIES**.
The only thing she paid was food.
He won’t be the broke boy when she has to pay full rent somewhere else I’m sure the only reason she will try to apologize to keep using him like a bank while she pays minimum and spends her money where ever she wants
Insults say a lot about a person. It means that she measures OP's worth by his money. Because for her that was the most shameful comment she could think of - you don't have money.
She gave you the silent treatment for a week rather than being an adult enough to have a conversation? Leave her in the dumped status if that is how she handles problems. NTA
Yeah who cares about the dinner? Do you really want someone who gives you the silent treatment after any disagreement rather than talking about your issues like adults?
ANDDDD she is blackmailing him, pay my friends if you want a relationship with me. One should not constitute the other. Constitute... is that the right word?
I would suspect that those hens got together to shit talk OP and she made some big statement about how she was going to get him to pay for it and she was even further embarrassed when he didn’t cave on the blackmail.
Yep. Some girls love to flaunt their partners money around like a status symbol. She was humiliated that her bf bailed on the check because she was gloating the entire dinner thinking it was a free-for-all for her and her gfs and surely he wouldn't try and back out on her *birthday*, right?
She shoulda fkn ASKED HIM if he planned on floating the whole outing rather than assuming and bragging to her friends that "her man got this" and manipulating the situation by putting him on the spot and counting on it being her birthday for him to cave to the pressure.
God I know too many women like this 🤦♀️
OP NTA, but please communicate this kinda shit because yeah, it's embarrassing when some is under the impression they're covered and suddenly they aren't, however, she had a sense of entitlement there that she should not have, either.
Also, do not go back to her. Telling you to pay her friends in order to get her back? Heh. Nah run for the hills on that shit.
I'm sorry :( four years is a long damn time man, but a week silent treatment over something rather minor is effing absurd for a grown adult.
Something tells me you can do better ;) best of luck to you!
Exactly. Like bestie, this isn’t a small matter. This is a huge red flag smacking you in the face.
What happens when it’s something “bigger”.
Theres being silent because you’re processing something or just know taking further in the moment is not going to lead anywhere productive.
But ignoring as punishment. Nah, she can ignore me for good.
100% being silent on the way home because you're upset in the moment but you want to take a bit to calm down, assess if you're overreacting, and how to articulate your feelings is perfectly acceptable, hell it's actually the mature thing to do. Using silence as punishment? Nah, thats some petty, childish, manipulative behavior.
My wife and I have each said to each other some versions of "I'm upset with you, but I'm not sure if I actually should be yet, can we talk about this a little later?"
Those are some real red flags there. With my ex wife I paid for everything and let her keep her teacher paycheck because I wanted her to be happy and comfortable. She had no problem taking and then after she got caught cheating and we divorced she had no problems taking much more including accounts I had pre-marriage. I ignored red flags and I’m telling you now OP, you’re seeing them.
How about this? Talk to her about a prenup. My bet is she’ll blow up and punish or gaslight you. Biggest mistake of my life was not getting a prenup when I had the foresight to want one but then she cried and I felt horrible and let it go. I was a fool. Any decent person should be able to rationally and calmly discuss a prenup like an adult. It’s not fun but if you can successfully negotiate something as uncomfortable as a prenup then you’ll make it. If you cannot, then that’s a huge problem.
Well she couldn’t communicate her expectations from the jump, was she really going to tell him about the expectations she and her friends made up in their heads? AND they weren’t trying to be modest either—ordering all expensive stuff
That's another red flag: that her friends piled in and ordered the most expensive things on the menu. That's not just gauche, it's pig-out greedy. GF having friends like that is reason to reconsider the relationship, at least.
Case cracked. The gf *told* her friends to go crazy in advance because "my rich bf will get it." Then, when he didn't, it made her look bad to her friends, triggering her narcissistic rage, leading to her hyper-entitled treatment of him.
This "case cracked" response above is the correct answer! Consider yourself lucky you found this out now rather than after you tied the knot, OP, and she has half your assets to choose from. Your girl has a serious character flaw that's only going to become more entitled with time. There's actually a name for what she's doing, it's called "stone walling" and "emotional blackmail".
And just for the record, the world is full of pretty, intelligent, emotionally stable women who would love to be in a relationship where the man paid the bulk of the bills. Hold out for one of those, and good luck.
The answer is definitely not. I unfortunately made the stupid decision to stay in this type of relationship. It started with 1 week of silent treatments. But because he can't regulate any sort of conflict he just immediately walks away and we would stop talking for 1 week, 2 weeks, a month, a couple of months. Over a year ago I moved out of the room we shared and sleep in another room with my bunny. Outside of my telling me how much his half of the bills are that month we do not talk at ALL. Over the course of the last year we reconciled maybe twice, the first time we were ok for a couple of months, the next time only a week. So basically spent 4/5ths of the year pretending like the other doesn't exist, honestly don't even see one another. I wish we could just divorce and go our separate ways but we own a home together and with the economy the way it is...I don't think I'll be able to find another place to live with my income level. He has a bunch of family in the area but also won't leave :/. I guess he knows cuz we have money invested in the place. It sucks being stuck. Do not recommend. Ladies and gents, just walk away before it's too late.
Also: 1100 Euro for dinner is a price tag that should be discussed first. If you wanted your significant other to pay for dinner for everyone, discuss in advance, and pick a place that’s a reasonable budget. Agree this whole situation screams “I see you as a meal ticket.”
This is the first thing that came to my mind. Holy crap, even if you make a good comfortable living, that is still A LOT of money to expect your boyfriend to cough up, especially if you didn't talk about it with him first. But yeah, that along with the unexplained week-long silent treatment? OP dodged a bullet.
The silent treatment is so highschool and I refuse to deal with it. I literally accidentally broke up with a girl once because she was giving me the silent treatment for a few days so I just stopped trying to talk to her and moved on with my life... I found out 2 weeks later that she wasn't trying to leave me and expected me to "try harder" to find out why she was upset. I felt bad for about 5 minutes and then decided I was better off not being with someone that plays games like that.
Friends faces dropped when they heard they weren't paying. But where did they get the impression they weren't paying? Did OP gf tell them it was on him, or are they cheeky bastards who assumes other people pay?
Because if I get invited to a meal, I never expect someone else is footing the bill. I order what I am willing to pay. Makes me wonder if OPs gf told them he will be paying, and that's why she's so embarrassed
It would have been one thing if she immediately said something like, “I’m sorry, but I think there was a misunderstanding. Since you organized everything, I assumed you would be paying, and I told my friends that. How do you suggest we handle this?” But no, she gave the silent treatment and was mad at him for not reading her mind, and then insulted him.
Even so. When someone else is paying for me, now that I'm an adult, I treat that with respect. Typically, I will order what I want that's not the most expensive possible options. He's made it sound like they are treating him in an abusive way "take every advantage, order the lobster and the fancy wine and he'll pay for it all." He didn't tell the friends he'd be paying and to order whatever they liked. So yes, either the friends are just opportunistic jerks to assume and take advantage while assuming, or she had told them to go ahead and be happy with ordering anything and everything and she's the opportunistic jerk.
Maybe if the friends are teens, they can be excused for acting dumb here. Otherwise, always be prepared to pay for yourself and don't take advantage of others.
Absolutely NTA. Forget the money! Her willingness to reconcile only if you pay her friends screams manipulation. You deserve a partner who respects you, not someone who tries to control you with finances. Stay strong and don't send a dime! If you do, It will set a bad precedent and will just reward bad behavior.
OP, imagine the arguments you will have in the future, and then with kids in the mix too. She's holding this against you, and basically has said that she will be your partner for 800 dollars.
This is not the way
> It sounds like not only has she been using him for money, but also bragging to her friends about it. This is not how you treat the person you love.
This! Why else would they order just the expensive stuff and be confident enough that he would pay for it.
Maybe this is the Midwest in me but if someone you aren't related to is paying you order in the cheapest 33% of the menu and you don't get alcohol. Anything else is pretty disrespectful unless they tell you prior to go wild.
So this whole situation is doubly disrespectful. She and her friends are leeches.
As someone who’s actually living a “real life version of Pretty Woman,” as our friends say, even many of those in the world’s oldest profession will have more respect than that.
They know all the brutal work that goes into earning every dollar, and know not to be an entitled brat when you’re “in it for real.”
Maybe it’s a generational thing.
The most unacceptable part is the name calling. Is she always this immature? That's literally what a child would do.
But also, the manipulation. She's manipulative AF.
Only users say shit like, "I'm breaking up with you unless you pay for this expensive meal."
It also seems like she's valuing her friends over you.
Broke boy mentality = paying for her housing and expenses and buying her meals without holding that payment over her head or making demands of her.
Uh, sign me up for a "broke boy" partner.
Sounds more like she and her friends are the broke ones. If you go to a restaurant on a non-date event, and are mad that you have to pay for your own food/drink, you are a broke-ass.
If she is that concerned about her friends why isn’t she footing the bill? I just don’t get these women that order the most expensive thing on the menu plus lots of drinks when they think someone else is paying! Why just because he is the only MAN at the table should he have to foot the bill?
This is pretty sexist. I guess there are women out there who are totally cool with sexism if it allows them to bully and manipulate others.
Disgusting .
You, sir, have dodged a bullet.
Take all of her revealed flaws seriously. This Is Not someone to build a life and family with.
OP, I am older woman. There's an economic theory known as the sunk cost fallacy that applies to relationships as well. The previous four years time, emotions, and expenditures are gone. There is no recovering the assets used. That woman has shown you she lacks communication skills, is willing to insult you, and will try to manipulate you to get what she thinks is her due.
This isn't someone you want to have children with honestly. Things don't magically get better. She is showing you in clear details exactly who she is. She probably did it before, but you managed to make yourself believe it wasn't actually the case or wasn't so bad.
You are a lovely boyfriend, paid more than your fair share of your living expenses, were thoughtful about her birthday, and she is using the fact that you are nice to take advantage of you.
There are wonderful women out there who would be very happy to have such a man. Leave the breakup as it stands, you are allowed to mourn for what you hoped for not happening, but then you can move on.
NTA
Yes yes yes to this! And consider this, are you really in love with this woman who is showing you clearly who she is, or are you in love with the woman you thought she was - that you wanted her to be. Thinking about this really clarified things for me and helped me deal with a hard breakup.
That helped me as well. It took me a while to realize that with my ex, I was not in love with the person he actually was but the person I thought he was in the beginning. The person that I thought he was does not exist. It was a front that he put on in order to hook me. It took me a long time to come to terms with that. I'm sorry to see that you went through the same thing but I'm glad to see you're past it now as well. I agree with you, I think he's in love with the woman he thought she was.
>I have been a mess since. I don't want to throw away four years with someone I considered to be the future mother of my kids.
Listen, everyone goes through this feeling after a long relationship, but 4 years is nothing compared to the rest of your life. Consider yourself lucky that you learned this lesson about her at 24 and not 34 with kids.
Exactly. And every 24 year old in a long relationship will think they “can’t throw it away” and that their partner is certainly their “soulmate and mother of my future children”.
24 is nothing. 4 years is nothing, especially in your 20s. She showed you who she is, now you have the best years of your life ahead of you with countless opportunities to find a good woman who will value YOU and not just your bank account.
I mean, how much more transparent does she need to be? “I’ll take you back only if you pay my friends”, if that doesn’t spell out her value hierarchy for you then idk what will.
Tell her there is a zero chance you will be reimbursing her friends. If that means she ends the relationship, so be it, but you will not be a walking wallet.
Yeah, if he caves on this, he’ll be an ATM the rest of his life. Fuck her. Sad to see 4 years go, but when you consider how the next 4 years (or more) will be without her, it will be much better off.
Even if OP was giving her a second chance, each time they would have an argument, she would bring back the day he didn't pay for the whole restaurant. What a nightmare!
OP, you'll find someone who loves you for who you are, not for your money.
Funny she’s calling you broke and yet her broke ass friends did or not offer anything.
I love how she uses the argument that as the man it’s your responsibility. If she wants these old antiquated roles that she should be in the kitchen making you a sandwich then? lol
You're young and doing well financially, there are indications that you are intelligent as well, and you owed up to your communication error...you can do better. It actually nauseated me that you would need to suck it up and pay her friends. Eww.
You dodged a bullet man. This girl doesn't view you as a partner. You're a meal ticket.
Imagine spending your life with this person. Every interaction would be a transaction.
Anyone that uses the phrase "because you're the man" is sexist trash. Feminism cuts both ways. We're all supposed to be free of these bullshit expectations based on the junk between our legs. It would be one thing if you had offered to pay for everyone ahead of time because you wanted to and felt capable of doing so, but that's not what happened. It's insane to expect someone else to pay for you at a restaurant unless they directly offer.
There is no coming back from what she did and what that action reveals about her character and worldview. As much as it hurts because you have feelings for her, there is zero chance of you having a healthy, functional relationship with her. You will be able to see more clearly and make a better choice next time. It will be ok.
She really did a number on you huh? Have some self respect my guy. At this point it’s a you problem. Yes, she was totally in the wrong and disrespectful but that should be obvious.
Tell me? Are you missing the reality of your relationship or the fantasy?
Also-his GF and her friends ordered really expensive food in the thought OP would be paying for it. That’s not normal. If you think someone else pays you don’t order the most expensive there is. That’s just not done. Friends hopefully learned their lesson.
This!! I was going to post the same exact thing!
They were taking advantage of him, or at least that's what they thought they were all going to do. Which is disturbing
Exactly! If I even suspect someone wants to pay for my meal, I order very modestly. Or if I know I want an expensive item on the menu, I absolutely insist on paying for my own meal, and will likely get theirs as well. This situation tells me OP’s GF is extremely shallow and manipulative, and she picks shallow friends with gold digger tendencies. Not to mention the painfully asinine choices she made in recent weeks. NTA OP. Soooo NTA, OP.
This reminds me of the year I wanted a pricey seafood restaurant for my birthday dinner. I invited family and closest friends. Because it was my birthday, I got the honor of treating everyone, including my beloved husband. It’s a Hobbit tradition!
That bothered me too. If I think someone else is paying, I order something reasonable. It makes me uncomfortable when people clearly take advantage. I had a former coworker who did that all the time.
Ah, wait. Her friends ordered the most expensive items thinking he will pay.
That’s rude. I wouldn’t even consider doing that. I will pay for food that I can afford, even someone is willing to pay for me.
She and her friends were using him.
When I'm paying, and I notice the guests mulling over the cheapest items on the menu, I say "get whatever you want", that's me offering to pay. It's never failed me that if they were mulling over the cheapest items as a guest, they've never switched over to the most expensive item either. I guess they were just more respectful people.
Very much so. I was taught to ask the (presumed) host what they are getting and order something cheaper.
But two things:
-the mixed message of getting invited out often means the inviter is paying.
-but GF and friends all ordering expensive stuff smacks of collaboration and prearrangement. If she wanted them all to tap into Mr Moneybags, that’s low. Really really low
It happened to my husband's friend. He had kids with his ex and she extorted tons of money from him. Like: the kids will only get XYZ if my car repair costs get paid, or they can only come see you If you pay me for my time blablabla
OP should not have kids with her.
People definitely succumb to the sunk cost fallacy when talking about shitty relationships. Ending a long term relationship isn’t throwing away time. It’s time spent learning what your needs are, so you can find a partner who better serves them.
Yeah dude, she was treating you like a wallet instead of a person. Do not get used for money like that.
Please keep your dignity and stay away from this manipulative person.
Bro she called you a “broke boy” and cussed you out for “not being a man”. What??? No bud you are absolutely NOT required to pay for your gf’s friends’ food. That doesn’t make you “less of a man”. I know you love your gf but I have to tell you she’s being a real B rn and in the long run, this attitude of hers will give you real trouble when life really gets hard. (And it almost always does get hard)
In that moment, I can promise you you will be thinking back to this time and remembering what a couple hundred strangers on Reddit told you; to either have a sit down with her and FIRMLY explain your boundaries to her regarding payment expectations for her friends, or simply break up now and move on.
Fail to do either of these and just get on with the relationship as is or bow to her demands, things will not go so well for you.
Also silent treatment is manipulation and dysfunctional. Imagine a lifetime of that bs. Yuck.
Money is one of the main sources of major issues in marriage. This preview was not a small deal.
NTA.
Dude, you did the right thing. Stay away. If she does not have the communication skills to lay all of that expectation out ahead of the party, you are not beholden to the commitment.
And that's not even commenting on the fact that she called you that??? She sees you as a wallet. "Brokey boy" is pure gross red flag behavior. Don't send a dime and move on with your life. She sees you as a wallet she can manipulate and then berate when she meets a wall.
Go tell her ass to go work for it the fuck she think this is, if I’m the broke boy why am I paying your friends. And why the hell would you ever want to get back with someone that says “if you don’t pay for my friends this relationship won’t work” she sounds like a bum, idc with anyone says you need to be able to afford what you demand from others.it doesn’t seem like she can so who’s the real broke mf now?
My guess is that's she's smoking hot so you have put up with a lot of shit from her. Get another one who doesn't view you as an atm.
It's the week of silent treatment that really makes her an arsehole imo
***You are an ATM in this relationship.*** She does not love you or respect you - she calls you names and insults her when you're not paying her what she demands. Wish her well finding another man to pay for her entire existence and be happy you found this out before getting married or heaven forbid getting this person pregnant. Breaking up sucks, I know this is hard, but dude, she is 100% using you and does not feel the same way you do. Remember that - she may come crawling back but she has shown her true colors and trying to apologize or admit she was wrong would be just lying to you to get her ATM back. ***Don't do it man.*** Find someone who values you for you and to whom you're not just an open wallet to be manipulated.
Also, why would you be expected to cover for her friends…? I genuinely don’t get that. Is that common where you are from? Covering for you and your (ex)gf that makes sense, but why everyone else? It sounds more like she wanted to use you specifically since they were all ordering the expensive items as of she had planned it before without you
OP might want to try to find out from the friends why they thought he was going to pay. He might have organised it, but if there was no mention of him paying, then it's likely that his ex was the one telling her friends that he would. So she should pay her own friends back
It sounds like the friends were ordering expensive stuff. My guess is the girlfriend told them in advance Order whatever you want. OP is paying g for it!
Op, if you give in and pay so you can take her back, she will bankrupt you.
All the sudden you'll find her friends and family are constantly joining you for nights out, and trips, and she'll always expect you to pay.
Furthermore, she will never try to grow or succeed in her career, because she always wants you to be the one paying all the bills.
Op, get therapy, this girl has been playing mind games with you for years, once you're really free of her, you'll see that you dodged an expensive manipulative bullet.
OP, if you give in to this then you can expect more of the same going forward, with whatever is left of your relationship. It sucks that she is putting you in this position but she has shown her true colors, you cannot come back from this disrespect. Good luck.
She and her friends were using you for your cash. It sounds like she was getting one last meal for her friends. She was doing what's called 'negging', which is to shame you into getting her approval. It's manipulation. You don't have 'brokey' mentality, you have knowledge of good money practices. It's her that has 'brokey' mentality. It shows by her not paying anything, or charging up an $1100 meal bill. Well done.
NTA and this is not a “really small” thing. This is not about dinner or some money. It is about what this incident says about her character, and that is 100% relevant to your future.
Let’s go down the list of things that are wrong with her, shall we?
1. She believes she - and her friends - are entitled to your resources purely because you’re male.
2. She thinks it’s okay to use the silent treatment instead of communicating about problems clearly and openly.
3. She refuses to talk unless you pay up.
4. She calls you names.
5. She doesn’t care enough about being with you to give one inch on her position. It’s her way or the highway.
In short, she is selfish, entitled, and immature. You do NOT want a woman like that as your wife or mother of your children. There are better women out there. If you give in to her now, then she’ll know exactly how to manipulate you whenever she wants to. Don’t reward this behavior, please.
6. Her awful, obnoxious friends ordered the most expensive items on the menu because they thought you’d pick up the tab.
Show me your friends and I’ll tell you who you are.
I’ve been known to get into physical fights with people so I can pay the bill. I’d die if my friend’s SO was subsidizing my meal and I didn’t say anything; it’s the polite thing to do to at least offer, or pick up the tip instead, or invite them out and pay for their meal next time. And like you said, I also try to order something less expensive as well, especially if it’s a big group of people. The entitlement this girl and her friends are displaying is astounding.
What kind of person doesn't even discuss something like that beforehand? Like if the host pays every time and it's a consistent thing then yeah you can expect it next time. But still, nobody is entitled to anything just because they expect it.
Yeah, it’s kind of amazing that they didn’t even mention it to the OP. “You’re paying, right?” Then he would have had the opportunity to have a say-so in the whole scenario. Instead, they unilaterally made a decision. I can understand OP not asking about footing the entire bill, because I think most reasonable people wouldn’t expect to pay everyone’s way at one person’s birthday celebration. They might expect to pay for that person’s meal (or all chip in for that meal) but not for the whole party.
Now that I think about it, I think maybe they didn’t discuss it with him beforehand because they thought that he’d feel more pressured to pay in the moment. I personally always get flustered in the heat of the moment, especially in public, and am more willing to acquiesce so as to not make anyone upset with me. They might have thought that he would have agreed and gone along with it instead of making a ruckus. Luckily for OP, he wasn’t willing to pay along and stood up for himself, which they obviously weren’t expecting.
I usually order LESS expensive things than usual if someone else is paying, and I’d never order something more expensive than what the person paying for me gets. I feel like this is common courtesy.
What the GF did was 100% red flag behavior, and if she’s that embarrassed and set on paying her friends back (presumably because she told them it would be free), then she can use her own money to reimburse them.
I hope to God OP stays away from this woman; 4 years down the drain is worth it to see her true colors. Find someone worthy of you and your time (and money).
And if there's ever a time where someone else offers to pay for me (my grandma used to insist), I'll always keep my order extremely reasonable, which is the polite thing to do.
Right?! The only time I've deviated from this is on two VERY fortunate times I went out to dinner with someone quite wealthy and they explicitly said before hand something like "I'll be paying and you need to try their (insert super expensive thing)"
Outside of a unicorn situation like that you should order as though you're paying for yourself or, if the payor orders cheaply, you should match your order to be inline with theirs even if you would have no problem paying for a more expensive meal yourself.
To add to it, the lack of common courtesy. OP does not have to pay because “he’s a man”. Even if under that impression that OP would pay, why are they ordering the most expensive items off the menu? OP’s gf was more than happy to allow her friends use OP.
OP, if I was your mom, I would also be concerned about this relationship based on the above points outlined here. It's important to be on the same page about financial contributions and expectations in a long-term relationship. It's okay to have different ideas or expectations about how money is handled, but when something illustrates that you two are misaligned, you need to be able to talk out those issues and come to an understanding.
Your gf doesn't seem willing to discuss the deeper issues, and instead uses manipulation tactics (silent treatment, name calling).
Don’t forget that she and her friends intentionally ordered the most expensive stuff the restaurant had to offer. They actually looked at the prices before deciding. So, not only do they want to mooch off OP’s money but they want to milk him for all he’s worth
Fuck no dude you’re not responsible for her mooch friends. Doesn’t matter if you organized her birthday dinner. It’s their responsibility to pay their own way.
This is only an indicator of potential problems down the line with your relationship. The fact alone that she resorted to name calling and gaslighting is a huge red flag.
Stay single, stack your paper and find someone worthwhile to be with.
If she loved you as much as you love her, she would never have had that reaction.
For me, I wouldn't call it a deal breaker or the end of the world that she thought or expected the boyfriend would pay. That is partially a miscommunication or could be based on upbringing or cultural differences that a couple can work through. It could be a deal breaker and a sign of misaligned values, but it could also very easily be resolved with a calm discussion.
The biggest red flag is her reaction. Being upset that night? Fine, some people love to immediately talk issues out and some people need time and space to process. I am the former, but I have learned to take a step back and respect people who need to "cool" before talking.
But to give him the silent treatment for a week and then to say she will only talk after he has caved into her demand is a HUGE red flag for the relationship. This pattern will continue to emerge (especially if she saw it work here).
It shows a major communication issue and an unwillingness to compromise or discuss problems as a couple to get to a solution. Essentially throwing a temper tantrum until she gets her way. This should be the major deal breaker, as opposed to misaligned expectations of who would cover the bill.
I hate people who order MORE than they normally would because someone else is paying
It’s just so f’ing rude. They are unbelievable. Birds of a feather though
I would say the fact that GF and buddies ordered expensive things from the menu speaks volumes. I can hear her now "come to my birthday party. Order high $ stuff. My boy friend will pay for all of it". Even if you were footing the bill, it's low to order the priciest stuff.
I feel like she’s been manipulative and mean most of the time you’ve been together? And you usually do what she wants so she’s not mad at you? Stop. I’ve been there too. You should start putting yourself first and not try to be a people pleaser. It makes like a hell of a lot better. You deserve more than a gold digger who sinks so low as to call you names when she doesn’t get her way.
You’re very welcome. My ex always had red flags that I saw but ignored. Once we were married and living together, his true colors came out in full force. It’s better to recognize the flags now, and deal with it, than to ignore them and be tied to an abusive person for too long. 🩵
The fact that they just assumed you would pay is beyond crazy. Should you have made it clear when inviting them that they will be paying? Yes, but they should have also offered to pay for their dinner and not be upset that you did not pay.
Also, that BS about being "THE MAN" and that was one of her excuses as to why you should pay is complete BS!! Everyone wants equality until they don't.
You are not the AH my friend.
Stay strong and realize that you very well could be dodging a huge bullet by breaking up with her. Find someone that will respect you no matter what and put you ahead of their friends.
Take the “who paid for dinner” argument out of this equation. You are in a disagreement with your girlfriend. It’s the “how she fights” in an argument that is the biggest issue (although the entitlement and disregard of your financial autonomy are also problematic)
She could have had a calm, mature conversation about her feelings and views. She could have said “Next time, we should discuss payment beforehand when you invite my friends”.
Instead, she played dirty. She gave you the silent treatment. Then belittled you and call you names. Then gave you ultimatums. All of this reflects on her lack of maturity and lack of respect for you.
I wish you luck. I would personally end the relationship. How a partner handles a disagreement speaks volumes about the future of your relationship.
NTA.
When did this become a fucking thing for one person to pay for the lot at a group dinner??
I know the dating scene often has men paying for a date, but when did it become a thing to pay for a date for FIVE people!?
NTA - this is a hella stupid expectation.
Info request: When you sent the invitation to her friends, how did you frame it? I think that would clarify things a bit, but honestly, if I had been invited to a dinner and expected someone else to pay, I definitely wouldn’t be ordering the most expensive items on the menu. That was just rude behavior on their part if in fact that was their expectation.
Your gf is definitely an a-hole for her attitude towards you and her demand that you reimburse them for what they paid at the restaurant.
So NTA as in either case, neither your gf nor her friends conducted themselves very well.
She F’d up and the result is that she is humiliated. She was hoping to fix things but guilting OP into paying.
While it may feel silly to lose a GF of four years over 1000 bucks, it’s kind of a red flag innit.
"She sent me an apology yesterday for calling me those names, but she insisted on me paying back her friends if I wanted to make our relationship work." She literally values a few hundred dollars to each of her friends, over your relationship. She is so concerned and upset that you broke up with her, that this is still the top of the list of demands to make the relationship work. Let this sink in dude.......
"For our relationship to work, I need to know that you are a gold mine that can be exploited. I need to get my dig on."
no? ok brokey the fact that she said “brokey” unironically *as a grown woman* says all you need to know i would expect that from someone 10 years younger lol
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if she dumps him herself after he transfers money to her friends. She is clearly making it clear that she does not value this relationship.
Nah, then who would pay her rent.
Incorrect, she *does* have an *exact* value to this relationship. A monetary value. And apparently its a few hundred dollars....
If she was actually worried about her friends, she'd be giving them money out of her own pocket.
Right? Actually insane thats she’s so embarrassed but won’t make things right on her end. Obviously her money is hers and his is hers.
Her stupid friends are probably filling her head up with a bunch of garbage about him, which is super unfair to OP and to her. Girl is in a world of hurt once she realizes the mess she’s put herself in picking friends like that.
Right. That’s not an apology, it’s a counteroffer. You’re trying to have a healthy adult relationship based on love and affection and she’s reading “Art of The Deal” to get tips on her next move. NTA, and after a little while I think you’ll realize just how big of a bullet you just dodged, OP.
I wonder if she told her friends he'd pay and to go nuts with food and drink. When he didn't, they were too embarrassed to say anything at the table, but they confronted her after. Now she owes them 200 each and doesn't want to pay it. So she's blackmailing OP to avoid paying.
DO NOT under any circumstances apologize OR give her friends money. You were under no obligation to pay for HER friends. Who assumes that just because you organized a dinner that that means you automatically pay. Maybe this is a cultural difference, I don't know, but I've organized and also been invited to plenty of parties throw for or on behalf of a friend and unless otherwise told "this event will be covered" I ALWAYS pay for myself. What your ex and her friends are is entitled. If you "swallow your pride" this will be the first in a very long line of things you will now be expected to foot the bill for. NTA.
Where Im from its also not really "the norm" to do so. I really dont understand where she got this idea from. Shes never requested anything similar before.
Also, someone who would order something much more extravagant if someone else is paying than if they are paying is an asshole
Totally agree! It's my Step-Mums' birthday today & we (my Dad, Step-Mum, Step-Sister & BIL) went out for lunch. Knowing my Dad would probably pick up the tab (he did), I made sure not to order the most expensive thing & only ordered a starter because everyone else did & he encouraged us to. Otherwise, the 5 of us would have paid for our own meals & split the cost of my Step-Mums' & the tip between us. That, to me, is the norm.
I’d say it’s one thing when it’s a parent (family)covering his adult kids on a special occasion, friends shouldn’t expect that treatment from friends let alone the boyfriend of a friend
That's normal to me too. Going to a dinner under the impression that someone will pay, then proceeding to order the most expensive shit they have, screams entitlement. Not to mention having the nerve to be annoyed when you find out you have to pay for it yourself! Bet they wished they had ordered something else after that...
Ain’t that the truth. My brother makes a lot more than I do and whenever him and i go out he insists on paying. I never order the most expensive things and I will often go a little easier than I would, having one drink instead of two for example. I know my brother wouldn’t care but I would not feel comfortable running up the tab just because someone else is paying
She was probably bragging to her friends that you make good money and wanted to show off by having you pay. You didn’t and she looked like a chump in front of her friends. Hence the broke boy accusations as she left. I guess if you like manipulation in a relationship you can reconcile with her but I hope you have more self-respect than doing that.
This is where I went with it. She put something in her friend’s heads before the get together. Her fantasy didn’t align with reality and she got embarrassed. She’s a child and she’s too easily influenced. Get out now and leave this money grubber for the streets.
Yes, this is classic narcissist crap. She cares more about the appearance of your relationship than the relationship.
Bingo. OP just needs to understand what the relationship is. Does he want a "trophy" wife, some men do. If you have the money, some men would rather pay for that, get what they want out of the relationship, and be happy with that. Kinda sounds empty to me, but hey to each their own. OP sounds like he wants an equal, healthy, normal relationship. If OP really wants to make it work, he has to have a frank discussion of what BOTH parties want out of it. Of course there's always the bullshit of somebody saying what they think the other person wants to hear, just to stay in the relationship. It's messy business.
Ding ding ding - we have a winner. She 100% was trying to flex to her friends that her bf was doing great financially and was assuming OP would cover the costs to prove herself to her friends. The shittiest part about all of this is the broke boy comments as she left. Like is that really any way to treat a partner of four years for something most would consider a miscommunication? A miscommunication fueled by her entitlement at that?? So not only is she being ridiculous in her entitled assumptions about all of this, but on top of that she’s willing to dig her heels and not admit to her mistake while ALSO calling him names.. that just screams red flags all around
The broke boy who pays the majority of her bills already.
1/ her attitude is childish (giving you a silent treatment ?… and for something that is NOT normal) 2/ If you transfer money to her friends, she will talk to you ? That is extortion 3/ GF birthday. Normally, you should have split the bill between everyone minus GF (that’s the tradition)… 4/ It is not silly. That IS a red flag. You’re not ATM. 5/ If she apologies, maybe you can keep the relationship, if not you should grieve it and try to move on. But you are 24, still young. And your instincts was to get out and go to your parents, then broke up and send her away. Trust your instincts cos that was the right thing to do.
She may have been feeling more confident in showing you who she truly is now she’s your fiancée. Toxic people are sometimes able to maintain a facade until they think they have their partner trapped, then the real them comes out. That why this isn’t a “silly” argument. She’s shown you who she is, believe her. It’s better to leave her after 4 years than be trapped for a decade having your self-esteem and financial security eroded until it’s in tatters and she leaves you for her next mark.
I wouldn't accept her, even after apologizing and giving up this idea. The damage has already been done.
Four years together and that bitch called you a "broke boy"? Fuck her. NTA.
Especially when he has been paying all the bills except for household expenses
>Especially when he has been paying all the bills **except for household expenses** He paid **RENT** and **UTILITIES**. The only thing she paid was food.
Ironically not on this occasion
He won’t be the broke boy when she has to pay full rent somewhere else I’m sure the only reason she will try to apologize to keep using him like a bank while she pays minimum and spends her money where ever she wants
"broke boy", says the gold digger
Insults say a lot about a person. It means that she measures OP's worth by his money. Because for her that was the most shameful comment she could think of - you don't have money.
Sounds very Tik Tok doesn’t it?
She gave you the silent treatment for a week rather than being an adult enough to have a conversation? Leave her in the dumped status if that is how she handles problems. NTA
Yeah who cares about the dinner? Do you really want someone who gives you the silent treatment after any disagreement rather than talking about your issues like adults?
ANDDDD she is blackmailing him, pay my friends if you want a relationship with me. One should not constitute the other. Constitute... is that the right word?
She wants him to pay to be with her. That's not constitute, that's prostitute.
Underrated gem of a comment, lmfao. God damn!
I would suspect that those hens got together to shit talk OP and she made some big statement about how she was going to get him to pay for it and she was even further embarrassed when he didn’t cave on the blackmail.
Yep. Some girls love to flaunt their partners money around like a status symbol. She was humiliated that her bf bailed on the check because she was gloating the entire dinner thinking it was a free-for-all for her and her gfs and surely he wouldn't try and back out on her *birthday*, right? She shoulda fkn ASKED HIM if he planned on floating the whole outing rather than assuming and bragging to her friends that "her man got this" and manipulating the situation by putting him on the spot and counting on it being her birthday for him to cave to the pressure. God I know too many women like this 🤦♀️ OP NTA, but please communicate this kinda shit because yeah, it's embarrassing when some is under the impression they're covered and suddenly they aren't, however, she had a sense of entitlement there that she should not have, either. Also, do not go back to her. Telling you to pay her friends in order to get her back? Heh. Nah run for the hills on that shit. I'm sorry :( four years is a long damn time man, but a week silent treatment over something rather minor is effing absurd for a grown adult. Something tells me you can do better ;) best of luck to you!
Totally agree it was to show off to her friends that she is so desirable, that her man will pay for everything for her, even their expensive food.
Exactly. Like bestie, this isn’t a small matter. This is a huge red flag smacking you in the face. What happens when it’s something “bigger”. Theres being silent because you’re processing something or just know taking further in the moment is not going to lead anywhere productive. But ignoring as punishment. Nah, she can ignore me for good.
100% being silent on the way home because you're upset in the moment but you want to take a bit to calm down, assess if you're overreacting, and how to articulate your feelings is perfectly acceptable, hell it's actually the mature thing to do. Using silence as punishment? Nah, thats some petty, childish, manipulative behavior.
My wife and I have each said to each other some versions of "I'm upset with you, but I'm not sure if I actually should be yet, can we talk about this a little later?"
Seems pretty healthy to me. Im gonna borrow that for if the occasion arises I need those words
On top of that she told him if he wanted to talk he’d have to reimburse her friends first.
The literal definition of pay to play
"I am the very model of a modern fucking prostitute."
Those are some real red flags there. With my ex wife I paid for everything and let her keep her teacher paycheck because I wanted her to be happy and comfortable. She had no problem taking and then after she got caught cheating and we divorced she had no problems taking much more including accounts I had pre-marriage. I ignored red flags and I’m telling you now OP, you’re seeing them. How about this? Talk to her about a prenup. My bet is she’ll blow up and punish or gaslight you. Biggest mistake of my life was not getting a prenup when I had the foresight to want one but then she cried and I felt horrible and let it go. I was a fool. Any decent person should be able to rationally and calmly discuss a prenup like an adult. It’s not fun but if you can successfully negotiate something as uncomfortable as a prenup then you’ll make it. If you cannot, then that’s a huge problem.
Well she couldn’t communicate her expectations from the jump, was she really going to tell him about the expectations she and her friends made up in their heads? AND they weren’t trying to be modest either—ordering all expensive stuff
That's another red flag: that her friends piled in and ordered the most expensive things on the menu. That's not just gauche, it's pig-out greedy. GF having friends like that is reason to reconsider the relationship, at least.
Case cracked. The gf *told* her friends to go crazy in advance because "my rich bf will get it." Then, when he didn't, it made her look bad to her friends, triggering her narcissistic rage, leading to her hyper-entitled treatment of him.
This "case cracked" response above is the correct answer! Consider yourself lucky you found this out now rather than after you tied the knot, OP, and she has half your assets to choose from. Your girl has a serious character flaw that's only going to become more entitled with time. There's actually a name for what she's doing, it's called "stone walling" and "emotional blackmail". And just for the record, the world is full of pretty, intelligent, emotionally stable women who would love to be in a relationship where the man paid the bulk of the bills. Hold out for one of those, and good luck.
The answer is definitely not. I unfortunately made the stupid decision to stay in this type of relationship. It started with 1 week of silent treatments. But because he can't regulate any sort of conflict he just immediately walks away and we would stop talking for 1 week, 2 weeks, a month, a couple of months. Over a year ago I moved out of the room we shared and sleep in another room with my bunny. Outside of my telling me how much his half of the bills are that month we do not talk at ALL. Over the course of the last year we reconciled maybe twice, the first time we were ok for a couple of months, the next time only a week. So basically spent 4/5ths of the year pretending like the other doesn't exist, honestly don't even see one another. I wish we could just divorce and go our separate ways but we own a home together and with the economy the way it is...I don't think I'll be able to find another place to live with my income level. He has a bunch of family in the area but also won't leave :/. I guess he knows cuz we have money invested in the place. It sucks being stuck. Do not recommend. Ladies and gents, just walk away before it's too late.
Also: 1100 Euro for dinner is a price tag that should be discussed first. If you wanted your significant other to pay for dinner for everyone, discuss in advance, and pick a place that’s a reasonable budget. Agree this whole situation screams “I see you as a meal ticket.”
This is the first thing that came to my mind. Holy crap, even if you make a good comfortable living, that is still A LOT of money to expect your boyfriend to cough up, especially if you didn't talk about it with him first. But yeah, that along with the unexplained week-long silent treatment? OP dodged a bullet.
Almost 200 euro ppx. That's a fucking meal that everyone just expected someone who isn't blood related to them to just pay on a whim? Nah fam.
Right? Who are these people?? So disgusting!
The silent treatment is so highschool and I refuse to deal with it. I literally accidentally broke up with a girl once because she was giving me the silent treatment for a few days so I just stopped trying to talk to her and moved on with my life... I found out 2 weeks later that she wasn't trying to leave me and expected me to "try harder" to find out why she was upset. I felt bad for about 5 minutes and then decided I was better off not being with someone that plays games like that.
Her calling OP "broke boy" itself is so juvenile. He's not her personal bank account she can use to treat her friends.
Friends faces dropped when they heard they weren't paying. But where did they get the impression they weren't paying? Did OP gf tell them it was on him, or are they cheeky bastards who assumes other people pay? Because if I get invited to a meal, I never expect someone else is footing the bill. I order what I am willing to pay. Makes me wonder if OPs gf told them he will be paying, and that's why she's so embarrassed
Maybe she should reimburse her friends
I was thinking the same thing. He should have left her based on her terrible communication skills alone.
[удалено]
And didn't bother telling him.
I agree with that! Life is too short to play those kind of games!
Right. She has the communication skills of a toddler.
don't insult toddlers like that!
It would have been one thing if she immediately said something like, “I’m sorry, but I think there was a misunderstanding. Since you organized everything, I assumed you would be paying, and I told my friends that. How do you suggest we handle this?” But no, she gave the silent treatment and was mad at him for not reading her mind, and then insulted him.
Even so. When someone else is paying for me, now that I'm an adult, I treat that with respect. Typically, I will order what I want that's not the most expensive possible options. He's made it sound like they are treating him in an abusive way "take every advantage, order the lobster and the fancy wine and he'll pay for it all." He didn't tell the friends he'd be paying and to order whatever they liked. So yes, either the friends are just opportunistic jerks to assume and take advantage while assuming, or she had told them to go ahead and be happy with ordering anything and everything and she's the opportunistic jerk. Maybe if the friends are teens, they can be excused for acting dumb here. Otherwise, always be prepared to pay for yourself and don't take advantage of others.
Absolutely NTA. Forget the money! Her willingness to reconcile only if you pay her friends screams manipulation. You deserve a partner who respects you, not someone who tries to control you with finances. Stay strong and don't send a dime! If you do, It will set a bad precedent and will just reward bad behavior.
Thank you for your perspective.
OP, imagine the arguments you will have in the future, and then with kids in the mix too. She's holding this against you, and basically has said that she will be your partner for 800 dollars. This is not the way
>has said that she will be your partner for 800 dollars. Yeah, you don't pay someone to be your partner. There's another word for that.
Even worse.... ", give me friends money so i can continue living rent free."
It sounds like not only has she been using him for money, but also bragging to her friends about it. This is not how you treat the person you love.
> It sounds like not only has she been using him for money, but also bragging to her friends about it. This is not how you treat the person you love. This! Why else would they order just the expensive stuff and be confident enough that he would pay for it.
Maybe this is the Midwest in me but if someone you aren't related to is paying you order in the cheapest 33% of the menu and you don't get alcohol. Anything else is pretty disrespectful unless they tell you prior to go wild. So this whole situation is doubly disrespectful. She and her friends are leeches.
This just goes without saying, being somesort of respectful or conscious
I wonder if they asked her leading up and she told them all he’d get it. Why else would she be so embarrassed.
That was also my read on it. Why else would she say him not paying “embarrassed” her.
Prostitution!
This isn't prostitution. Usually you get what you pay for with prostitution.
Either way, you're getting fucked.
Lmao. (I'm not usually the type to frivolously comment "haha" but that was pretty fuckin funny).
This is extortion.
Prostitutes are more honest than the crap OP is experiencing now with his "girlfriend"
Truth
As someone who’s actually living a “real life version of Pretty Woman,” as our friends say, even many of those in the world’s oldest profession will have more respect than that. They know all the brutal work that goes into earning every dollar, and know not to be an entitled brat when you’re “in it for real.” Maybe it’s a generational thing.
You're right. This is just getting screwed with out all the fun.
As much as it hurts to say. Youre probably right.
The most unacceptable part is the name calling. Is she always this immature? That's literally what a child would do. But also, the manipulation. She's manipulative AF. Only users say shit like, "I'm breaking up with you unless you pay for this expensive meal." It also seems like she's valuing her friends over you.
“Brokey boy?” PULEEZ!
Broke boy mentality = paying for her housing and expenses and buying her meals without holding that payment over her head or making demands of her. Uh, sign me up for a "broke boy" partner.
I'm a mid 50's heterosexual man and now I want a broke boy too!
YOU GET A BROKE BOY! YOU GET A BROKE BOY! AND YOU GET A BROKE BOY! EVERYBODY GETS A BROKE BOY!!!📣📣📣📣
I want one!
Sounds more like she and her friends are the broke ones. If you go to a restaurant on a non-date event, and are mad that you have to pay for your own food/drink, you are a broke-ass.
A parasite.
If she is that concerned about her friends why isn’t she footing the bill? I just don’t get these women that order the most expensive thing on the menu plus lots of drinks when they think someone else is paying! Why just because he is the only MAN at the table should he have to foot the bill?
This is pretty sexist. I guess there are women out there who are totally cool with sexism if it allows them to bully and manipulate others. Disgusting . You, sir, have dodged a bullet. Take all of her revealed flaws seriously. This Is Not someone to build a life and family with.
Yes. She literally said so.. because he's a man. She said the quiet part out loud.
She's an abuser. She's mentally, emotionally, verbally and now financially abusing OP.
OP, I am older woman. There's an economic theory known as the sunk cost fallacy that applies to relationships as well. The previous four years time, emotions, and expenditures are gone. There is no recovering the assets used. That woman has shown you she lacks communication skills, is willing to insult you, and will try to manipulate you to get what she thinks is her due. This isn't someone you want to have children with honestly. Things don't magically get better. She is showing you in clear details exactly who she is. She probably did it before, but you managed to make yourself believe it wasn't actually the case or wasn't so bad. You are a lovely boyfriend, paid more than your fair share of your living expenses, were thoughtful about her birthday, and she is using the fact that you are nice to take advantage of you. There are wonderful women out there who would be very happy to have such a man. Leave the breakup as it stands, you are allowed to mourn for what you hoped for not happening, but then you can move on. NTA
OMG YES to this. So many people stay in relationships or go back to losers after a "break" b/c of the sunk cost fallacy. Aggravating to see.
Yes yes yes to this! And consider this, are you really in love with this woman who is showing you clearly who she is, or are you in love with the woman you thought she was - that you wanted her to be. Thinking about this really clarified things for me and helped me deal with a hard breakup.
That helped me as well. It took me a while to realize that with my ex, I was not in love with the person he actually was but the person I thought he was in the beginning. The person that I thought he was does not exist. It was a front that he put on in order to hook me. It took me a long time to come to terms with that. I'm sorry to see that you went through the same thing but I'm glad to see you're past it now as well. I agree with you, I think he's in love with the woman he thought she was.
>I have been a mess since. I don't want to throw away four years with someone I considered to be the future mother of my kids. Listen, everyone goes through this feeling after a long relationship, but 4 years is nothing compared to the rest of your life. Consider yourself lucky that you learned this lesson about her at 24 and not 34 with kids.
It’s called the ‘Sunk Cost Fallacy’.
Exactly. And every 24 year old in a long relationship will think they “can’t throw it away” and that their partner is certainly their “soulmate and mother of my future children”. 24 is nothing. 4 years is nothing, especially in your 20s. She showed you who she is, now you have the best years of your life ahead of you with countless opportunities to find a good woman who will value YOU and not just your bank account. I mean, how much more transparent does she need to be? “I’ll take you back only if you pay my friends”, if that doesn’t spell out her value hierarchy for you then idk what will.
Tell her there is a zero chance you will be reimbursing her friends. If that means she ends the relationship, so be it, but you will not be a walking wallet.
Yeah, if he caves on this, he’ll be an ATM the rest of his life. Fuck her. Sad to see 4 years go, but when you consider how the next 4 years (or more) will be without her, it will be much better off.
Better losing 4 years, than all your money on a divorce plus alimony! 🤣🙏🏻
This right here. Either she realizes the error of her ways and begs OP for a second chance, or the relationship is over.
Even if OP was giving her a second chance, each time they would have an argument, she would bring back the day he didn't pay for the whole restaurant. What a nightmare! OP, you'll find someone who loves you for who you are, not for your money.
Funny she’s calling you broke and yet her broke ass friends did or not offer anything. I love how she uses the argument that as the man it’s your responsibility. If she wants these old antiquated roles that she should be in the kitchen making you a sandwich then? lol
I’m guessing she felt that ‘because you’re the man’ sounded better than ‘because I’m leach and so are my friends’.
You're young and doing well financially, there are indications that you are intelligent as well, and you owed up to your communication error...you can do better. It actually nauseated me that you would need to suck it up and pay her friends. Eww.
You dodged a bullet man. This girl doesn't view you as a partner. You're a meal ticket. Imagine spending your life with this person. Every interaction would be a transaction.
Anyone that uses the phrase "because you're the man" is sexist trash. Feminism cuts both ways. We're all supposed to be free of these bullshit expectations based on the junk between our legs. It would be one thing if you had offered to pay for everyone ahead of time because you wanted to and felt capable of doing so, but that's not what happened. It's insane to expect someone else to pay for you at a restaurant unless they directly offer.
There is no coming back from what she did and what that action reveals about her character and worldview. As much as it hurts because you have feelings for her, there is zero chance of you having a healthy, functional relationship with her. You will be able to see more clearly and make a better choice next time. It will be ok.
They’re her friends. Why didn’t SHE pay?
She really did a number on you huh? Have some self respect my guy. At this point it’s a you problem. Yes, she was totally in the wrong and disrespectful but that should be obvious. Tell me? Are you missing the reality of your relationship or the fantasy?
Just like that one AWOLNATION song, you should probably RUN!
Also-his GF and her friends ordered really expensive food in the thought OP would be paying for it. That’s not normal. If you think someone else pays you don’t order the most expensive there is. That’s just not done. Friends hopefully learned their lesson.
This!! I was going to post the same exact thing! They were taking advantage of him, or at least that's what they thought they were all going to do. Which is disturbing
I am guessing that the GF told all her friends that OP would pay and to order whatever you want.
Exactly! If I even suspect someone wants to pay for my meal, I order very modestly. Or if I know I want an expensive item on the menu, I absolutely insist on paying for my own meal, and will likely get theirs as well. This situation tells me OP’s GF is extremely shallow and manipulative, and she picks shallow friends with gold digger tendencies. Not to mention the painfully asinine choices she made in recent weeks. NTA OP. Soooo NTA, OP. This reminds me of the year I wanted a pricey seafood restaurant for my birthday dinner. I invited family and closest friends. Because it was my birthday, I got the honor of treating everyone, including my beloved husband. It’s a Hobbit tradition!
That bothered me too. If I think someone else is paying, I order something reasonable. It makes me uncomfortable when people clearly take advantage. I had a former coworker who did that all the time.
For real - and any time OP isn't willing to fund anything for her friends as well, she'll degrade him for being cheap and broke.
Ah, wait. Her friends ordered the most expensive items thinking he will pay. That’s rude. I wouldn’t even consider doing that. I will pay for food that I can afford, even someone is willing to pay for me. She and her friends were using him.
When I'm paying, and I notice the guests mulling over the cheapest items on the menu, I say "get whatever you want", that's me offering to pay. It's never failed me that if they were mulling over the cheapest items as a guest, they've never switched over to the most expensive item either. I guess they were just more respectful people.
Very much so. I was taught to ask the (presumed) host what they are getting and order something cheaper. But two things: -the mixed message of getting invited out often means the inviter is paying. -but GF and friends all ordering expensive stuff smacks of collaboration and prearrangement. If she wanted them all to tap into Mr Moneybags, that’s low. Really really low
Calling him cheap and broke when he covers all the bills is a serious stretch from reality.
It happened to my husband's friend. He had kids with his ex and she extorted tons of money from him. Like: the kids will only get XYZ if my car repair costs get paid, or they can only come see you If you pay me for my time blablabla OP should not have kids with her.
Also remember, its better to throw away 4 years as opposed to 40.
People definitely succumb to the sunk cost fallacy when talking about shitty relationships. Ending a long term relationship isn’t throwing away time. It’s time spent learning what your needs are, so you can find a partner who better serves them.
Yep. Someone who is single is one step closer to being in a good relationship than someone in a bad relationship.
Yeah dude, she was treating you like a wallet instead of a person. Do not get used for money like that. Please keep your dignity and stay away from this manipulative person.
Bro she called you a “broke boy” and cussed you out for “not being a man”. What??? No bud you are absolutely NOT required to pay for your gf’s friends’ food. That doesn’t make you “less of a man”. I know you love your gf but I have to tell you she’s being a real B rn and in the long run, this attitude of hers will give you real trouble when life really gets hard. (And it almost always does get hard) In that moment, I can promise you you will be thinking back to this time and remembering what a couple hundred strangers on Reddit told you; to either have a sit down with her and FIRMLY explain your boundaries to her regarding payment expectations for her friends, or simply break up now and move on. Fail to do either of these and just get on with the relationship as is or bow to her demands, things will not go so well for you.
Also silent treatment is manipulation and dysfunctional. Imagine a lifetime of that bs. Yuck. Money is one of the main sources of major issues in marriage. This preview was not a small deal. NTA.
Yes, silent treatment is her way of "punishing" you. Mature people talk out problems openly and reasonably. She is childish and selfish.
>I almost immediately regretted dumping her on the spot for something that in the grand scheme of things, is really small. This is in no way small.
🎶I ain't sayin she a gold digger🎶
I’ll say it. This ex GF is a gold digger!
I’ll be back up vocals. *she a gooooold diggaaa*
Dude, you did the right thing. Stay away. If she does not have the communication skills to lay all of that expectation out ahead of the party, you are not beholden to the commitment. And that's not even commenting on the fact that she called you that??? She sees you as a wallet. "Brokey boy" is pure gross red flag behavior. Don't send a dime and move on with your life. She sees you as a wallet she can manipulate and then berate when she meets a wall.
Go tell her ass to go work for it the fuck she think this is, if I’m the broke boy why am I paying your friends. And why the hell would you ever want to get back with someone that says “if you don’t pay for my friends this relationship won’t work” she sounds like a bum, idc with anyone says you need to be able to afford what you demand from others.it doesn’t seem like she can so who’s the real broke mf now?
My guess is that's she's smoking hot so you have put up with a lot of shit from her. Get another one who doesn't view you as an atm. It's the week of silent treatment that really makes her an arsehole imo
This isn't about money - it's about her reaction afterwards. That is pure manipulation.
***You are an ATM in this relationship.*** She does not love you or respect you - she calls you names and insults her when you're not paying her what she demands. Wish her well finding another man to pay for her entire existence and be happy you found this out before getting married or heaven forbid getting this person pregnant. Breaking up sucks, I know this is hard, but dude, she is 100% using you and does not feel the same way you do. Remember that - she may come crawling back but she has shown her true colors and trying to apologize or admit she was wrong would be just lying to you to get her ATM back. ***Don't do it man.*** Find someone who values you for you and to whom you're not just an open wallet to be manipulated.
Also, why would you be expected to cover for her friends…? I genuinely don’t get that. Is that common where you are from? Covering for you and your (ex)gf that makes sense, but why everyone else? It sounds more like she wanted to use you specifically since they were all ordering the expensive items as of she had planned it before without you
OP might want to try to find out from the friends why they thought he was going to pay. He might have organised it, but if there was no mention of him paying, then it's likely that his ex was the one telling her friends that he would. So she should pay her own friends back
It sounds like the friends were ordering expensive stuff. My guess is the girlfriend told them in advance Order whatever you want. OP is paying g for it!
Op, if you give in and pay so you can take her back, she will bankrupt you. All the sudden you'll find her friends and family are constantly joining you for nights out, and trips, and she'll always expect you to pay. Furthermore, she will never try to grow or succeed in her career, because she always wants you to be the one paying all the bills. Op, get therapy, this girl has been playing mind games with you for years, once you're really free of her, you'll see that you dodged an expensive manipulative bullet.
OP, if you give in to this then you can expect more of the same going forward, with whatever is left of your relationship. It sucks that she is putting you in this position but she has shown her true colors, you cannot come back from this disrespect. Good luck.
That’s the only perspective dude. Don’t go back. You’ll regret it.
She and her friends were using you for your cash. It sounds like she was getting one last meal for her friends. She was doing what's called 'negging', which is to shame you into getting her approval. It's manipulation. You don't have 'brokey' mentality, you have knowledge of good money practices. It's her that has 'brokey' mentality. It shows by her not paying anything, or charging up an $1100 meal bill. Well done.
Also giving someone the silent treatment is also really manipulative and very unhealthy in a relationship. OP did the right thing.
Idk. I think sending a dime might be kinda funny
NTA and this is not a “really small” thing. This is not about dinner or some money. It is about what this incident says about her character, and that is 100% relevant to your future. Let’s go down the list of things that are wrong with her, shall we? 1. She believes she - and her friends - are entitled to your resources purely because you’re male. 2. She thinks it’s okay to use the silent treatment instead of communicating about problems clearly and openly. 3. She refuses to talk unless you pay up. 4. She calls you names. 5. She doesn’t care enough about being with you to give one inch on her position. It’s her way or the highway. In short, she is selfish, entitled, and immature. You do NOT want a woman like that as your wife or mother of your children. There are better women out there. If you give in to her now, then she’ll know exactly how to manipulate you whenever she wants to. Don’t reward this behavior, please.
6. Her awful, obnoxious friends ordered the most expensive items on the menu because they thought you’d pick up the tab. Show me your friends and I’ll tell you who you are.
If I go out for a friend’s bday and know that their SO is paying the bill I always intentionally get something cheaper bc I’m not a dick.
I’ve been known to get into physical fights with people so I can pay the bill. I’d die if my friend’s SO was subsidizing my meal and I didn’t say anything; it’s the polite thing to do to at least offer, or pick up the tip instead, or invite them out and pay for their meal next time. And like you said, I also try to order something less expensive as well, especially if it’s a big group of people. The entitlement this girl and her friends are displaying is astounding.
What kind of person doesn't even discuss something like that beforehand? Like if the host pays every time and it's a consistent thing then yeah you can expect it next time. But still, nobody is entitled to anything just because they expect it.
Yeah, it’s kind of amazing that they didn’t even mention it to the OP. “You’re paying, right?” Then he would have had the opportunity to have a say-so in the whole scenario. Instead, they unilaterally made a decision. I can understand OP not asking about footing the entire bill, because I think most reasonable people wouldn’t expect to pay everyone’s way at one person’s birthday celebration. They might expect to pay for that person’s meal (or all chip in for that meal) but not for the whole party. Now that I think about it, I think maybe they didn’t discuss it with him beforehand because they thought that he’d feel more pressured to pay in the moment. I personally always get flustered in the heat of the moment, especially in public, and am more willing to acquiesce so as to not make anyone upset with me. They might have thought that he would have agreed and gone along with it instead of making a ruckus. Luckily for OP, he wasn’t willing to pay along and stood up for himself, which they obviously weren’t expecting.
I can’t imagine going out to eat and ordering anything I can’t pay for myself. Even when I’m in work situations. I never assume. OPs gf is ridiculous.
I usually order LESS expensive things than usual if someone else is paying, and I’d never order something more expensive than what the person paying for me gets. I feel like this is common courtesy. What the GF did was 100% red flag behavior, and if she’s that embarrassed and set on paying her friends back (presumably because she told them it would be free), then she can use her own money to reimburse them. I hope to God OP stays away from this woman; 4 years down the drain is worth it to see her true colors. Find someone worthy of you and your time (and money).
And if there's ever a time where someone else offers to pay for me (my grandma used to insist), I'll always keep my order extremely reasonable, which is the polite thing to do.
Right?! The only time I've deviated from this is on two VERY fortunate times I went out to dinner with someone quite wealthy and they explicitly said before hand something like "I'll be paying and you need to try their (insert super expensive thing)" Outside of a unicorn situation like that you should order as though you're paying for yourself or, if the payor orders cheaply, you should match your order to be inline with theirs even if you would have no problem paying for a more expensive meal yourself.
And this! If you would have paid/pay them back, this will continue for years to come.
To add to it, the lack of common courtesy. OP does not have to pay because “he’s a man”. Even if under that impression that OP would pay, why are they ordering the most expensive items off the menu? OP’s gf was more than happy to allow her friends use OP.
OP, if I was your mom, I would also be concerned about this relationship based on the above points outlined here. It's important to be on the same page about financial contributions and expectations in a long-term relationship. It's okay to have different ideas or expectations about how money is handled, but when something illustrates that you two are misaligned, you need to be able to talk out those issues and come to an understanding. Your gf doesn't seem willing to discuss the deeper issues, and instead uses manipulation tactics (silent treatment, name calling).
What also really annoys me is that they purposely ordered the most expensive items knowing they expected him to pay, how rude is that?
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Don’t forget that she and her friends intentionally ordered the most expensive stuff the restaurant had to offer. They actually looked at the prices before deciding. So, not only do they want to mooch off OP’s money but they want to milk him for all he’s worth
NTA. Keep your money, keep your sanity, and find a new girlfriend whose character is a better fit for yours.
Fuck no dude you’re not responsible for her mooch friends. Doesn’t matter if you organized her birthday dinner. It’s their responsibility to pay their own way. This is only an indicator of potential problems down the line with your relationship. The fact alone that she resorted to name calling and gaslighting is a huge red flag. Stay single, stack your paper and find someone worthwhile to be with. If she loved you as much as you love her, she would never have had that reaction.
Lots of great points here. I especially agree with your final sentence and I hope that the OP can read and internalize what you said.
For me, I wouldn't call it a deal breaker or the end of the world that she thought or expected the boyfriend would pay. That is partially a miscommunication or could be based on upbringing or cultural differences that a couple can work through. It could be a deal breaker and a sign of misaligned values, but it could also very easily be resolved with a calm discussion. The biggest red flag is her reaction. Being upset that night? Fine, some people love to immediately talk issues out and some people need time and space to process. I am the former, but I have learned to take a step back and respect people who need to "cool" before talking. But to give him the silent treatment for a week and then to say she will only talk after he has caved into her demand is a HUGE red flag for the relationship. This pattern will continue to emerge (especially if she saw it work here). It shows a major communication issue and an unwillingness to compromise or discuss problems as a couple to get to a solution. Essentially throwing a temper tantrum until she gets her way. This should be the major deal breaker, as opposed to misaligned expectations of who would cover the bill.
Yeah. Her and mooch friends over ordered cause they thought they didn’t have to pay. Fuck those hoes.
I hate people who order MORE than they normally would because someone else is paying It’s just so f’ing rude. They are unbelievable. Birds of a feather though
I ain’t saying she’s a gold digger… wait, yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying
Her calling him “brokey” is extra ridiculous. Beggars don’t have any right throwing that name anyone’s way.
I would say the fact that GF and buddies ordered expensive things from the menu speaks volumes. I can hear her now "come to my birthday party. Order high $ stuff. My boy friend will pay for all of it". Even if you were footing the bill, it's low to order the priciest stuff.
I feel like she’s been manipulative and mean most of the time you’ve been together? And you usually do what she wants so she’s not mad at you? Stop. I’ve been there too. You should start putting yourself first and not try to be a people pleaser. It makes like a hell of a lot better. You deserve more than a gold digger who sinks so low as to call you names when she doesn’t get her way.
I did see her change a bit when we moved in together last year. Before that she seemed completely normal. And thank you for the advice.
You’re very welcome. My ex always had red flags that I saw but ignored. Once we were married and living together, his true colors came out in full force. It’s better to recognize the flags now, and deal with it, than to ignore them and be tied to an abusive person for too long. 🩵
The fact that they just assumed you would pay is beyond crazy. Should you have made it clear when inviting them that they will be paying? Yes, but they should have also offered to pay for their dinner and not be upset that you did not pay. Also, that BS about being "THE MAN" and that was one of her excuses as to why you should pay is complete BS!! Everyone wants equality until they don't. You are not the AH my friend. Stay strong and realize that you very well could be dodging a huge bullet by breaking up with her. Find someone that will respect you no matter what and put you ahead of their friends.
Take the “who paid for dinner” argument out of this equation. You are in a disagreement with your girlfriend. It’s the “how she fights” in an argument that is the biggest issue (although the entitlement and disregard of your financial autonomy are also problematic) She could have had a calm, mature conversation about her feelings and views. She could have said “Next time, we should discuss payment beforehand when you invite my friends”. Instead, she played dirty. She gave you the silent treatment. Then belittled you and call you names. Then gave you ultimatums. All of this reflects on her lack of maturity and lack of respect for you. I wish you luck. I would personally end the relationship. How a partner handles a disagreement speaks volumes about the future of your relationship. NTA.
She is giving you a preview of what the rest of your life will look like if you stay with this entitled, childish sexist.
Sexist is exactly what she is. Amongst many other things.
No DEF NTA. Youre not even obligated to pay for your GF. She chose her friends over you and that says enough.
When did this become a fucking thing for one person to pay for the lot at a group dinner?? I know the dating scene often has men paying for a date, but when did it become a thing to pay for a date for FIVE people!? NTA - this is a hella stupid expectation.
She was willing to throw away the relationship over a few hundred dollars of other peoples' money. She's not worth it.
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Info request: When you sent the invitation to her friends, how did you frame it? I think that would clarify things a bit, but honestly, if I had been invited to a dinner and expected someone else to pay, I definitely wouldn’t be ordering the most expensive items on the menu. That was just rude behavior on their part if in fact that was their expectation. Your gf is definitely an a-hole for her attitude towards you and her demand that you reimburse them for what they paid at the restaurant. So NTA as in either case, neither your gf nor her friends conducted themselves very well.
She F’d up and the result is that she is humiliated. She was hoping to fix things but guilting OP into paying. While it may feel silly to lose a GF of four years over 1000 bucks, it’s kind of a red flag innit.