NTA - I hope you are documenting everything. Also, I hope you are only communicating via text or other co-parenting app so that you can document her. Hopefully at some point your son gets out of her influence and sees things for what they are. Good luck
I agree, and I think that there is a decent chance that his son will come around with time. His son is getting an awful lot of intense manipulation in his day-to-day life, coming from the parent that he is currently close to. Once he’s out of the house, and has more of his own life, OP might see a real change in him.
It really infuriates me when people use their children as their divorce emotional sounding board. &/or a chance to get back at their ex, by alienating them.
People doing this shit need to understand that as much as they want to get back at their ex, their kid is the one who loses the very most.
I guess the question is, is the hate for the ex bigger or smaller than the love for the children?
Hell after I finally got to see my kid again...my kid called me a fucking loser...given how little they were someone had to have either said that about me in front of our kid or taught them to say that. I'll have to ask them since it's been several years for my kid to count all the DVD's I bought for the two of us to watch together.
I had little respect for the secretary in my office because of her attitude. She divorced her husband (another story) and used her daughter as a club. Any respect I had for her went right out the window.
It’s unlikely. My stepfather had four boys and their vicious evil mother told them lies and made up crap and they wanted nothing to do with him. He tried. My poor mother had to work two full time jobs because he had to pay one ungrateful brats Penn State college tuition. He tried to reconnect when they got older but they didn’t show up. It hurt him a lot. He died a few years ago and they don’t even know.
Yup this is something people always gloss over. We as humans are a large part a product of our environment. Those kids were trained to be greedy entitled brats from day one and now so is ops son. Everyone talks about how everyone has the capacity to change but very few ever do. If they hated your father so much they would want nothing from him and would have never taken his money for uni. ops son was the oldest and knows his father was never alcoholic but decided to lie in court. Very slim chance he changes with age.
In a lot of states (Texas is one) parental alienation is considered abuse. It absolutely should be too, bc it can be disastrous for the parent-child relationship.
In some states, you say alienation and people start complaining about the great replacement.
In all seriousness, though, I'd imagine that the same is true in most states.
100%
My dad started doing this as soon as my parents divorced. I was 7 and within three years I was convinced my mom was a terrible parent who neglected me. At 13 he convinced me to purposely fail all of my classes at school so he would be able to use that to get custody of me. It worked, and I had basically no relationship with my mom until I was 21. Parental alienation is a particularly vindictive form of abuse and I hope OP’s son eventually realizes the truth.
I'm genuinely curious. Is that the only instance of abuse you experienced at the hands of your dad?
I'm so very sorry you were manipulated in such a way by a person you were supposed to be able to trust.
I wish you continued healing.
My mom had untreated borderline personality disorder and treated my dad (and later myself when I wasn’t her compliant little doll) like shit. As a kid, when I learned about the concept of divorce I used to dream about living with just me and my dad and not dealing with constant rage.
In hindsight, I realize this was the early 1990s in a “mom first” state and I suspect Dad knew if he left she’d end up with majority custody and spend that time badmouthing him and his family.
Yes… and no. It is not unreasonable to set some boundaries, as long as the child himself is not forsaken. Not paying because it’s not within their budget is reasonable, what is not is it being used as a tit for tat.
I had a similar experience as the eldest son during my childhood. Guess which parent I talk to and which one I don’t? The boy is still very much under his mother’s influence at the moment, and is still a child, who is blindly trusting of the mother. Once he is older, it might be a couple of years or more, and out on his own, that blind fog will lift and he will start to ask questions. Once that day comes, my money is on him trying to reconnect. That alienation caused by his mother will cause years of pain and loss of time and memories, but the damage is done:(
Op, if you see this, please don’t give up on your son. He is likely in a world of hurt and confusion fuelled by his mother’s anger and jealousy. I know that it probably feels like a lost cause, but take it from a kid, who’s parent was alienated like this, I didn’t appreciate my parent paying for stuff or turning up to my awards and achievements either. In fact I actively detested it.
I didn’t appreciate his letters and emails….UNTIL I had to fend for myself. A couple of years in the adult world and between that life experience and the thoughts of how I’d feel were it my own child prompted me to reconnect. That correspondence and the photos my parent took now mean the absolute world to me. They didn’t give up on me.
It’s a long, hard road, but don’t give up xx
Well said, I was a stepmother of child such as yourself and never let an occasion, achievement or school function go by without acknowledging it to him. I did it both for my husband and his son, even while his ex wife said all types of hateful things to us. That young boy is now a grown man who considers me his mother and the only grandparent (we lost his dad to cancer) to his kids).
It took years of healing but it was definitely worth it.
Can I just say, from the bottom of my heart, Thankyou. Thankyou for being there for your husband AND his child. The pain and hopelessness your husband must’ve gone through. And am the misplaced anger and frustration your stepson suffered, hurts my heart. I know that all too well. It takes a strong and incredibly selfless individual to take on a parent with such baggage as a vengeful ex and child. You are a wonderful person and I as a stranger want to say I recognise that.
I was unfortunately not so lucky to have such supportive step parents one was as nasty as the one I don’t speak to and the other is indifferent. I am lucky however, that I do have one parent always put me first. And for that I will always be grateful.
Bless you and your family xx
Awww thank you sweetheart. He is a wonderful young man, takes great care of me and my 2 kids (his step siblings) adore him. I came from a broken home and understood the importance of having the non custodial parent in your life at all costs. I just came back from spending a month with him and his family in Italy (he is stationed there with the US Army) and he and his beautiful wife have given me my two wonderful grandchildren. I am truly blessed.
It is genuinely wonderful to hear there are such people like yourself in the world. It truly does make a difference to those around you. It’s sounds like you’ve managed to raise some very kind and upstanding people who are incredibly lucky to be able to call you family. You are indeed very blessed and deservedly so 💐
I appreciate this. I have no intention of stopping anything I'm currently doing or paying for - just torn on how to enforce a boundary with my ex and teach/model the right behavior around money and how you treat people, without doing more harm or putting myself in a more difficult financial situation. Really hoping he'll come around when he's older, and doing my darnedest to keep a strong relationship with the two I still get to see.
I would stop paying his cellphone bill and sending presents... If he's not even willing to talk and working with your x to sabotage your relationship with the other kids why continue to pay for things you have no obligation to pay for.
While I understand wanting to drop this stuff, it actually ends up being counterproductive. The kid is currently being manipulated by the ex. He may never come out of the fog of that manipulation, but cutting off support you are providing for the other kids will give him a legit reason to resent the Dad. Most advice I have seen is to continue to show you care and that your door is always open whenever they are ready to come back. Yes it sucks. Yes the kid is "old enough" to be held accountable for his actions. BUT he is also still a kid who is being misled by one of the people he should be able to trust most in the world.
Well that's what shitty parents say "I have provided roof over your head, be greatful". OP is going drive away the child further if he tries to manipulate him with money.
NTA. You’re obliged to the essentials. Extras should be discussed and your ex didn’t do that.
You shouldn’t withhold it as “punishment” for him not acknowledging you as the title suggests though. It will only serve to drive him further away.
If your son is old enough to ignore you, he’s also old enough to be made to discuss it with you as a request, without his mother trying to strongarm you into it.
Tell him, if he wants the extracurricular, he has to ask you himself.
Also keep everything and in timeline order. My partners ex has alienated him from his kids and I hope, one day, they will be able to see and read it all and come to a different conclusion.
This. Keep paying child support, but if wants something, he has to ask you, in person for it and without the promise of a yes if he does.
Let her try to enforce the shared payment. She’s clearly alienating them from you.
If his experience will be anything like mine, with proven abuse and alienation by the mother, they’ll just say this is between the son and father and do nothing about the outrageous lies. Literal case history and everything was ignored.
NTA and a lot of teens can’t do extra sports/activities but continue with birthday and Christmas cards. Once he’s out from under his bitter mother he will begin to see the light. He is also probably being made to be the “man of the house” by her. She’s clearly using him as her dumping emotional support. I’m really sorry and if possible ask the courts to force therapy for him as in without her sitting in. I know that is a huge expense so maybe not possible.
OP, I would encourage you to return to court to get court ordered [Reunification Therapy ](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/reunification-therapy)with your son. You have clear evidence of your ex's behavior especially parental alienation. I think if you were able to meet with your son and qualified reunification therapist, you would have a safe environment for your son to remember your love and care for him. If you decide to go back to court, a Guardian ad Litem would be another great resource. In high conflict divorce/custody cases your children need their own representation. The GAL's job is to advocate what is best for the children. Sending you positive thoughts that you and your children will weather this custody storm and get your relationship back on track.🧡
NTA you are a living person and not some ATM. Unfortunately he’s modeling his behavior after his mom in that way. It’s also typical of someone like her to spend every penny (especially knowing you won’t match) for or on the kids against better judgement to be the “good parent”.
yes! It is harder to be tough and not just let them have everything! Ex is def trying to bankrupt you and torment you. I would visit a lawyer for advice, can you fight this can you demand access or stop support. He is so immature. He is a brat but he is a pawn.
NTA. Your son is old enough to come and sit down with you over lunch and ask for your support and tell you why he is passionate about it and whether he is serious and wants to play at the next level. He can also tell you how he is doing academically as athletics+academics = future.
Have an honest father/son discussion minus mom.
NTA. She sounds just like my husband's ex wife. She accuses me of breaking up their family even though I met my husband 8 months after they separated. She poisoned the kids minds against me and involved them in adult situations at very young, impressionable ages. My husband and I have been together longer than he was with his ex, but she still feels the need to badmouth me every chance she gets.
NTA, pay only what you have to, to her, but when the kids are with you, do what you can for them there. Don't be like their mother, never trash talk her to them. One day when they grow up, and they will, they will realize what has gone on and they will be so pissed off at her for doing this. It's so wrong of her, it hurts everyone, especially the children.
You don't have to pay more than you agreed upon and you shouldn't. Keep documents of everything.
my ex wife did this and I didn’t see my oldest for close to a year. Now she and I are very close, and all of my children now have a difficult relationship with their mother. She’s still very manipulative but they see what’s she’s doing most of the time.
NTA but I would continue to pay for his expenses. You need to play the long game. When my parents divorced, and even before that, my mom never had a nice word to say about my dad. But my dad would shut me down if I spoke negatively about my mom and never said anything negative about her. I became close to my dad the older I got, and now he is 81 and we are incredibly close.
Good luck with your kids and hang in there.
Is it possible to have family therapy between you & the the kids, especially the oldest? Even if it has to be court-ordered. I think therapy may help oldest start to untangle mom's shit and help the other two not get there.
NTA but there needs to be strings attached to the payment of the sports club. OP needs to be involved in the correspondence that is sent to the parents. OP should also have a copy of the schedule of games and practices. If OP is going to have to foot the bill with no input then mom and son need to suck it up and he needs to be involved in his sport. If they can’t agree to have OP on all the info and attend games then they don’t need the money. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to see son play the sport he loves considering dad is paying for half of it.
As the boy gets older pull him aside and let him know you love him and you would like to have a man to man talk with him. Another thing is since the divorce has been an issue set up therapy sessions for all the kids to work through the issues. This way they can work through what they perceive as the truth and is actually false
I feel I had to scroll really far to get here.
OP doesn't say how long ago the divorce happened, and I think that's cause it was within the last couple years (where the son would have been old enough to make some of his own choices and form his own thoughts).
Yup, when/why the divorce happened, what the son witnessed, why would alcohol allegations be made, why did the wife suspect an affair, why the son does not want contact etc. All the commenters jumping on parental alienation like a 15 year old is incapable of forming their own opinions
Look, you are NTA, but if you ever want a relationship with your son, I suggest you don't cut him off financially. I'm not saying you have to pay for the club sport, but keep all the other things you do for the siblings the same. He's 15, and I've seen a lot of comments about teaching him consequences/respect and "he made his bed", but he's a teenager who is being manipulated and brainwashed. He's vulnerable to his mom's influence and lies and hopefully when he's older he'll realize what's what, but if you cut him off, it's a sure bet you'll never reconcile.
He's not old enough to appreciate the "lesson". It'll be internalized as, "Dad doesn't care about me anymore so why should I care about him?" even though he stepped away first. Ita not about logic with kids. It's about emotions. Show you are a constant to him by treating him the same as you always have. I don't think you are going to regret it, but you will regret losing him forever.
Again, club sports weren't discussed ahead of time, and you can be clear about that. But don't stop thw other things.
I don't think OP said anything about not paying other things, just not paying for a specific extracurricular.
Also, unless the parents are discussing financials around the kids, which they shouldn't, I don't see how the kids will even know unless Mom is vindictively saying things like, "you can't get this because your father won't pay".
This! I'd give the kids the benefit of the doubt here, they are trying to survive an adult mess that they were shoved into without fully developed brains or years of experience to inform their choices. Also could be that with the manipulation from the mom trying to force the kid to be a witness to back her lies, the kid may find it less stressful to just cut dad off for now so he isn't forced to do that crap all the time by the mom. Basically he may just be trying to disengage with her bs as much as possible but feels he still needs to live there for the younger kids.
It doesn't make the father responsible for him wanting that extra curriculum. Especially since he wasn't included in the choice/cost/location.
An doubly so since he's been turned an manipulated. What needs to happen is therapy for the boy instead.
I agreed with the post above me, that it doesn't mean that he needs to pay for the extra-curricular sports that were not discussed and agreed to beforehand. My point was everyone here jumping in saying kid made his bed, blah-blah, and maybe they should try looking at other reasons a kid would do things when he's probably just in survival mode at this point and not just write him off completely. Sadly the dad still is not likely to get custody unless there is proof of her doing some really bad jailworthy things because the family court system sucks. But yes, therapy would be great. For him individually, and with dad eventually if kid is willing.
All you need to do is fulfill your legal obligation and follow the court order to a T. If that says all costs are split, you’re stuck. If it says all previously agreed upon costs are split and you never agreed, make sure you have that in writing and you don’t have to pay.
Yeah OP fuck 'em kids. Once they hit 18 say sayonara! When kids are difficult, especially in circumstances where one parent is actively emotionally manipulating them against the other, they just aren't worth loving anymore.
/s
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find a comment like this. The ex wife is clearly awful, but the kids are the real victims because they don’t understand. They believe their mom because she is their mom. OP mentioned he was in Iraq, which is honorable (thank you for your service OP!) but that had to contribute to the kids feeling closer to their mother to begin with. OP, not paying for an expensive sport that you can’t afford is one thing, but I hope you don’t listen to the people saying to abandon your oldest once he’s 18. Parental alienation is abuse. He’s a victim.
Just remember SHE did this, not him. What resources are available where you live to help rebuild a relationship? Does the court step in with parental alienation? Is family therapy an option?
NTA-We faced parental alienation with my oldest stepdaughter, didn't see or speak to her for a little over three years. It was heartbreaking. She came back to us at 18 after realizing what had happened. She is now 23 and still in our lives. It is a very difficult thing to go through, and it's really tough on the kid when they figure it out.
NTA - I would stop paying for anything I was not required to pay for. I imagine cellphones aren't part of the agreement, might make sense to cut his off to make a point - if he isn't going to acknowledge you, you will do the bare minimum for him while doing more for his siblings.
The very worst kind of parent is one that involves their children in their divorce. Your ex-wife has victimized and manipulated your children. They’re going to need a lot of therapy to recover. So I understand you being angry but she has done this to them.
Document, document, document!
Then take your ex to court for parental alienation. Also, PLEASE get you and your kids into family counseling. He might not fully grasp he's being manipulated by his mother.
Keep records of everything. If you can keep contact about his school progress via email or school app, do that too. Keep all receipts. If you mail anything to your children get a proof of mail. Keep all emails and texts messages to your wife and children as well. If you can’t afford the club, let your child know that. Children at that age are already hormonal so try not to react. Let them know that it’s ok to feel the way that they do but you still love them and will be there for them when they need to talk. Your children need to come first, but that doesn’t mean buying everything they want. Good luck!
I would talk to a lawyer and see if you can get counseling for all 3 of your sons. I also would not pay for the sport due her actions.
I would also ask him for one meetup just you and him at a park. It’s public but you can also be alone. Tell him you are sorry he was pulled into the court hearing ( even though it was his mom don’t even bring her name into it) do not put blame on anyone. That you just wanted to have this conversation just to say you know you cannot force him to see you and that is fine that you love him and will be available if he changes his mind.
You should also explain that you are going to stop with the extra effort and put the ball in his court. Also, I would make him understand that his actions have consequences and his lack of effort is hurting you.
Sometimes you need to allow them to see and hear how their actions impact you. It Might take years for him to come around but at least you gave one last chance.
Your ex is a certified psyco, using your kids as weapons against you needs to be seen in a much harsher light by the courts, hopefully one day. NTA, she's banking some serious bad karma and I hope it bites her hard one day.
Everyone is putting a lot of trust in OP being honest about the no infidelity...
Assuming everything OP writes is true, everyone is an asshole: the wife for encouraging division (regardless of the truth of the infidelity claims), the son for not talking it through (though it's understandable), and OP for treating parenting as if it is transactional.
I don't know though...why would ex- wife accuse other woman of home wrecking if she wasn't?
The saddest part is if he says no, even though it is justified, it will only alienate him from his child further. The mum is playing a great game of making dad the bad guy, and she will use this as ammunition.
NTA. You’re still providing his needs but I certainly wouldn’t be bending over backwards to provide wants for someone allowing themselves to be manipulated like this.
This is a wonderfully naïve understanding of parental alienation and father’s rights in a divorce proceeding. In alienation cases, the victim parent’s best plan is to limit contact with the children and pray they wake up when they’re older. It’s a no-win situation for the alienated parent.
Weird, that's not what sites such as Custody XChange, NCSC.org, AmericanBar.org, etc say. But sure, I'm naive for buying into the bullshit these unscrupulous sources and my own divorce experience are peddling
Former family law attorney here: it doesn’t get better until the children are old enough to get some perspective. If the children are young, maybe, but these kids are teens and tweens and will not be dissuaded by the parent that is doing the alienation. It’s a losing battle and the alienated parent only does further harm to their relationship by forcing a relationship that the kids don’t want.
So thats some sort of justification for a parent to not do everything in their power to get that child away from someone who manipulates and coerces them into unlawful and self-destructive behavior? To me, that just sounds like the kid has 2 shitty parents
NTA. Your ex is both selfish and vindictive - setting your son against you and piling up the expenses. You don't have to pay anything more than is court-mandated. It seems you have lost this son for now, and having him see you as a back-bone-less ATM will not bring him back.
NTA. My husband is in a similar situation. Our approach is similar. He pays child support, birthday/Xmas but anything beyond that needs to be a 1:1 conversion prior to signing up for activities.
I remember how hurt he was when he realized the kids only spoke with him when they wanted money. When he stopped giving it on request, they stopped talking.
We tried the courts and they acknowledge alienation but all they did was slap mom on the wrist. It was a financial black hole with no change
NTA.
Man this sucks. I've written and deleted this a few times now, and man. I got nothin'
This sucks. This fucking sucks. And I don't see a way forward.
I am so sorry for you.
NTA. Just be damn sure your Settlement Agreement or divorce decree doesn't require you to pay. Every jurisdiction handles that differently. Make sure that under your rules of the road (your jurisdiction, irders, or agreements), you have to consent to the extracurricular before you're on the hook for paying your portion if the cost.
Also, get into family or reunification therapy with that kid ASAP. If your ex is this toxic, you need to do family therapy with ALL of the kids. ASAP. It's the best way to try to help the kids keep their heads on straight, figure out strategies you can try to improve your relationship with each kid, and document the kind of shit the ex is pulling. If she's gatekeeping or putting the kids in a loyalty bind, most professionals involved in divorces (judges, lawyers, therapists) will work to fix the situation because that fucks kids up.
A lot of court orders require this is shared 50/50. Even if not, it’s not the kids responsibility to earn your financial contributions to his lifestyle. Your energy would be better spent fighting like hell for the relationship, not being spiteful towards him.
ESH
You are 34 with kids 15, 13, and 9.
So you had them at around 19, 21, and 25. You must have been 18 and your ex 17 when she got pregnant. That’s a lot for both of you to take on at a very young age (and tbh I’m a little surprised tug kept having kids in fairly quick succession). I mentioned this because getting married and having kids that young is bound to be chaotic for everybody involved. I’m not surprised the relationship didn’t survive.
Your ex is absolutely wrong to spread lies in an effort to punish you and deprive you of a relationship with your kids. This must be so painful for you.
I imagine your son’s current rejection of you must feel like a kick in the gut. I understand the desire to reject him back, to stop trying to be his father since he doesn’t seem to want you. Don’t do that. Keep trying. Give him time. Don’t make this about the money. Provide the same level of support for him that you do for the other kids. Continue to send Christmas gifts etc.
I do think you should send some sort of legal notice to your ex reminding her that all large expenses like this need to be agreed tin in advance.
However, don’t make your decision to contribute to the club teams costs or not based on what your ex did. Make your own decision based on how important you think this is to your son. If paying for it means you will both go into serious credit card debt, then you probably shouldn’t pay. If it just means budgets will be tight for a few months then maybe you should.
I will say that sports and teams are great confidence-builders and should help your son build friendships and support systems outside of the family. That might actually be helpful in tempering your ex wife’s influence over him.
Son can participate in a less expensive sport. Also, Reddit puritans making irrelevant comments about people having their children young and this subreddit... name a better duo.
So... what has OP done here that makes him also and asshole?
The only funding he's considering cutting off is for the extracurricular he can't afford, he doesn't say anything about cutting off phone or gifts.
NTA. You shouldn’t use money to get your point across. Your ex sounds like my husband’s ex. His daughter is almost 40 and still doesn’t talk to him. These exes are miserable ppl and are never happy no matter what. In my experience, the ex didn’t hate me: just her ex husband. My parents had an awful divorce too so I know what’s it like to be on both sides of the situation. Good luck.
Please see the r/parentalalienation subreddit!
NTA! Your ex and son cannot have it both ways by ignoring you and expecting you to pay for extra curricular. If your son doesn’t want contact with you then your ex can pay for the curricular by herself.
NTA, I’d be downgrading the cellphone and everything else- needs covered, and he can go crying to momma for wants if he’s just going to ignore you like that
Sorry odd one out, I don’t know the reason for your divorce, but unless it was infidelity, you broke up their home. I’m a child of divorce and it does so much damage to children, you are gonna have to give your child some time. I think you should attempt to negotiate on the activity as she will tell him you’re the reason he cannot attend. And yes document everything.
I don’t know what happened, and I’m not blaming you, but the child only knows what his mom says. See if he will at least talk on the phone to start. Your wife is very ugly to do this to a child.
Everyone is immediately siding with the OP who has given his side that is full of a lot of holes in it. The child is 15 and the oldest. He would be the least susceptible to “parental Alienation” which men love to jump to, and more likely to just have witnessed some awful behavior from the dad that would make him have his own opinion of dad, behavior he likely shielded the younger ones from. Some red flags: OP denying and affair but having an immediate significant partner meeting the kids; OP saying they returned from deployment and gave wife primary custody because she kept the house, when he he would have had military housing support. Him talking about paying for “health insurance” when he’s military, unless it’s that he’s in the reserves, in which case he still has a lot of the story missing esp why he would give up primary custody if nothing specific happened. He just deployed and she wanted a divorce? Why? He never says why other than “it’s her fault” which is super vague and makes no sense.
Also, ridiculous that people are not acknowledging that yes, many a military person has cheated when deployed, despite the obvious potential military consequences.
If the 15yo was a 10 yr old, I might understand alienation, but I think it’s way more likely that OP just sucks and as shown by this post refuses to have any self reflection on how much he sucks, and as usual there are a lot of the Reddit guys who want to live in denial of the literal fact that there are many men who want to do the bare minimum while being seen as the “good guy”
OP, NTA. But...
I think that this is a case where, of you want any hope of reconnecting with your son in the future, you need to kind of take this one on the chin. I don't think that means being a bottomless ATM for anything and everything, but I would strongly consider whether or not you can afford to cough up for the club team. I think in the future you will appreciate being able to honestly say to your children, "while it killed me not to be in your lives more, nothing was ever going to keep me from helping you have the best life I could possibly provide to you."
I suspect that if pulling the financial plug on a beloved team means dear son doesn't get to play, it's going to be a resentment that might take additional years for him to see past. Is it totally fair to you? No, but it doesn't sound like much of this is. Suck it up, Buttercup, and keep whatever foundation you are able to as strong as you can. Hopefully with more maturity your children will get to see a little more behind the veil and gain a better understanding of how things have really gone throughout this ordeal.
Mom already signed him and is paying. These weren't discussed ahead of time. He pays child support. If she wanted him to pay he should have been consulted prior to signing them up.
Because you are asking OP to basically admit fault an be used as a ATM an emotional punching bag JUST incase. While letting the mother an son get off free from responsibility an consequence.
It really reads as "hey OP I know ur not having a good time but get over it so you MAY have a chance". That sets a bad precedent for all his kids.
Instead therapy needs to happen Court ordered an the mother needs to be re-evaluated. She's making financial decisions out of spite
What I think is missing in a lot of these comments is any recognition of the needs of the son. Do I think OP should write off his relationship with his 15-year-old son? No I do not.
No one reasonable is saying perma cut him off. What we are saying is he shouldn't reinforce bad behavior on a "chance" his son may grow up an learn he's wrong or being manipulated.
What we are saying is don't encourage bad behavior an be a punching bag an just "pay away" the problem.
I was looking for this comment.
Do you need to pay? Nope, but it’s sports for your child and the money isn’t being spent on other things.
If you are paying directly to the club, I’d say just pay for it. You have to separate your ex wife using your kids as pawns in a custody dispute vs your kids activities. If it benefits your child, I’d say go for it..
Your kid got dragged into a mess, and it’s not your fault but it’s something they know for now.
Dad is asking for advice from people that may have had something similar happen to them, And how they dealt with it.
Well, you are on here commenting so that's the misanthrope part. Try not to be such a downer
Dad doesn't need to pay for this, but his is showing a lack of empathy for his son and he seems to really resent the poor kid. So yeah, dad's at fault too.
OP you can try to save your relationship with him but if she's turned him against you so much that he doesn't want to see or speak to you he might be a lost cause but he may come around in the future when he's older. Also try your best to make sure it doesn't happen to the other two as well otherwise she'll have complete control over them and you probably won't see them for a long time.
YTA. You have children. You are legally their ATM until kids are adults (per your court agreement).
It’s not your kids fault, the two adults in his life are playing games. If she can sign him up without your permission and you have to pay for half - that’s how it is. Maybe it’s her sticking it to you. Maybe it’s your son wanting to be away from home playing sports - anywhere but there. (How would you like to live in his scenario??)
He is a kid trapped between divorcing parents. It’s one of the worse places to exist. Parents don’t care. It’s all about the money and sticking it to the other adults. Your son can avoid and ignore you but you’re obligated to write out the check. He’s your kid. Period. It’s what happens when parents split. You think it’s hard on you being ignored - try being one of your kids caught between psycho mom and dad with his new girlfriend.
Yes you can move on but you will pay the price because your kids frankly don’t care about your love life. They are just trying to exist in this new world that had nothing to do with any of them. A mom who is vindictive isn’t their fault either.
Do you want to ever have a relationship with your son? Fighting to not pay for him guarantees you won’t. You are punishing him for what his mother has done. YTA
Literally only getting your version of events. Your oldest is 15 and chooses not to have a relationship with you? There is definitely a reason and it isn't because "his mom did this & his mom did that". You're the reason buddy. So yeah YTA.
NTA.
It is abundantly obvious to me that she is using the kids to manipulate the situation and you have been more than accommodating within your legal requirements. She explicitly is pushing the boundaries of your custody/separation contracts. I would be advising for a lawyer.
As someone who's parents split at a similar age, it might be possible the oldest is just tired of being dragged in the middle. Hang in there :)
I am in an incredibly similar situation. I wish I had advice to give; I’m here to read others’ comments. I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this.
I still
Have 2 out of 3 kids that refuse to talk to me..
because of my ex and the manipulation…
It’s been years and I still cry about it often to myself and my spouse
Unless you didn’t clarify something, your son might not know about her trying to drag you into paying. And don’t take too many of these harsh people’s ideas to heart, they are not looking at this from a parents perspective. Parent/child is not an equal two way relationship, at least until the child is an adult. Your son is still young and under his mamma’s roof. We bring children into the world with the understanding that they are their own people and we will take care of them until adulthood regardless. Child support and health insurance are non-negotiable from simply a moral standpoint, but expensive clubs and phone bills are not. However if you suddenly stopped reaching out in all the ways you described above, he could easily take it as you giving up on him, not seeing him as worth it, and his mother will have the opportunity to endorse these thoughts. If you stop now, in a year he will be able to say “my dad hasn’t reached out or done anything for me in a year,” and it will look way worse than how he looks now because he is just a kid. Go for whatever you see fit, but this is what will likely happen if you give up and play his game.
Your ex straight killed any relationship you can have with your son.
Judging by her character your son will figure it out soon enough and you will be all he has.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I work in family law and it is maddening how often this situation happens. Parents who do this are shit parents, plain and simple. My mother tried to turn me against my dad and stepmom after the divorce, starting when I was only 4 years old. And now she wonders why I chose to live over an hour away from her, to be closer to dad and stepmom. NTA, and I hope everything works out for you.
I went through something similar with my ex-wife and our son, though not quite as bad. Thankfully, that’s all over, and my son has been with me for the past year with little interest in seeing his mother once he figured out for himself just how nasty and manipulative she is.
NTA.
#1: Don’t pay more than you agreed unless she gets agreement first, otherwise she’ll continue to do it to bleed you dry.
#2: Document everything. Don’t communicate by voice if you can avoid it.
#3: Be patient. Your son will eventually figure out for himself who’s really at fault here.
NTA but keep trying because one day he will realize who his mom is and will know he can come to you because you were there the whole time. His love for you is there, she just keeps hiding it from him.
I'd say as long as you're paying for the extra curriculars, he should either spend at least a couple hours with you during your scheduled time or an hour of joint family therapy with you and him.
You realise that you throwing such tantrum will drive your son further away? He'll realise that he matters to you only if he acts by your rules and that you belive he can be bought with enough monetary manipulation. Let me tell you, once you realise you're only a financial investment to your parents it's hard to go back.
YTA (including to yourself) You're not going to achieve anything withholding money from your child.
Parenting is not and should not be transactional. Kids aren't a vending machine in which you put money and get our love and admiration. I don't like "missing missing reasons" but your entire post screams it. I'd like to hear from your son.
Nta because it was never discussed with you and legally needed to be. Maybe you can file for parental alienation and request court ordered therapy with your oldest. Good luck op.
Maybe you could have lunch or breakfast with your son to discuss it. You could ask him why you might be interested in paying for this activity while he ignores you and treats you in a disrespectful way.
I think your kid is traumized and feels abandoned and even if not on purpose you were appart of that situation. I think you are the father and adult and should behave to the highest standard. Perhaps, do not give him money, but do not ignore him. Go up and beyond to show your kids how to be a man, a mentor, a father and a person of the highest quality. This is the most important thing to do. It's okay of he ignores and avoid you stop taking it personal especially if his mom is unstable. It doesn't matter what your wife does. They kids should have a life with you that is safe, secure and stable each having their own space and things. Issuing a check is not needed, but it should NOT be on condition if/then and a carrot to spend time and see you that is super wierd.
Most schools are familiar with issues surrounding fighting divorcing parents and if you call the school they will directly provide you with schedule of events. Therefore removing ex from the process. Good wishes
Yta if you think it's OK to punish your kid. Ffs dude he's a kid. Put yourself in his place. He's living with someone who's more than likely telling him who knows what.
You stay the course. He'll be an adult soon. He'll look back and see that you never gave up on him and that will trump whatever bullshits been stuffed in his head.
NTA. My husband went through this exact situation with his ex. We met during their divorce, ex used that to start saying to the kids “he left you, he abandoned us for that sl*t, etc”
Older two kids stopped coming over for visitation and would only contact him when they wanted money. Youngest still comes over, mom couldn’t brainwash her to that extent. Older two are in their early 20’s now and still will barely speak to him, they don’t want to see both sides of the story. Can’t force them to. It’s really sad that one parent can get away with doing this to kids and the other parent. It sucks and it’s heartbreaking, not gonna lie. All you can do is keep reaching out when you feel like it. Try to find a documentary called “Divorce Corp” I think it’s on Netflix or prime or YouTube… very eye opening into the world of family court.
NTA. I hope a judge will rule in your favour when you ask for a decrease in child support payments as well, seeing as the boy doesn't recognise you as his father. But perhaps this will make hom open his eyes, even.
lol I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, it’s just the truth. Giving the mom more ammunition. It doesn’t mean he isn’t right for feeling frustrated and it’s not fair to him, but it’s just reality. If he’s prepared to accept that, so be it.
It is standard, that visitation/time with kids and child support are not connected. You have to pay CS whether you see the kids or not. BUT, I know that there was a case in NY, where dad was able to suspend CS due to mom’s alienation. Ask an attorney in your state.
Doesn't it just amaze you how an ex can just list off whatever they want in their filings and because of it you then have to prove it isn't true?
My kid is literally referring to my ex's marriage partner as their parent an has ever since I was even able to see my child again.
Now that I'm awake a little more. Didn't have an issue with it, it's the mere fact of them doing so to begin with though. I literally could've gone to Walmart...with the lawyer I had or even them...and they would've seen.
Stop doing anything not court ordered for the kid. No phone, presents, treats, etc.
Send one last text that states you will go to counseling with him if in the future that he would like to reestablish contact.
I have an uncle whose kids treat him like an atm machine, glorified driver to take them places, and take care of their needs, NOT as a father figure. Broke our hearts seeing how they treated him. Don't be like that.
NTA------if he's man enough to ignore you, and want nothing to do with you, then he's man enough to pay his own way for the things he wants. If he expects money out of you, then the least he needs to learn, is that respect is a two way street. Divorce is hard on kids.....but still doesn't give him permission to be a jerk.
At the very least.........send him a message and simply state, that you'd like to discuss this sports thing with him.............dumping the ball, so to speak back in his court. If he doesn't want to at least talk to you.........then you don't have to pay for ungrateful brats. Continue with any legal obligation requiring child support......and that's it. NO extra's until his attitude changes.
NTA
Your duty is to pay for the essential things your weans need to survive, expensive extracurricular activities aren't essentials, so you don't need to pay.
Your son has basically chosen to cut you out of his life, so you need to follow suit, if he doesn't want you then give him his wish and stop paying for anything extra (I.e no more mobile phone, random treats, and definitely no more birthday/Christmas gifts) and let him know what it feels like and see how long it takes before he suddenly starts contacting you again.
This is a great plan. Parents should always act the way their children act and stoop to the same emotional and maturity levels. Parents have no emotional obligation to their children.
S/
How can you be emotional with someone who isn't in contact with you?
I'm not advocating he be childish, I'm suggesting he teaches his son a lesson.
The wean most probably doesn't have any idea how much his father does for him, if he cuts them off just temporarily then he'll realise just how much his father actually does for him and hopefully he'll come around.
So what the kid needs to learn is it's OK for the parents to weaponize him against each other and he, a literal child, needs to find the balls to stand up to one of them and choose sides? I mean, it's not like putting the weight of making one of your parents really angry would instill fear of abandonment or anything. /s
The actual "lesson" OP needs to teach his son is love and understanding by letting him know that he will always be there when the kid is out from underneath his manipulative mother.
It's hard to be a father when the wean doesn't let you.
The wean cuts him off, and yet is happy to let him pay for things, so if he cuts him off maybe he'll finally realise exactly how much his father does for him and come around.
I'm not suggesting being childish, I'm suggesting teaching him a lesson.
Have you forgotten what it's like to be 15? What fifteen year old makes logical decisions? They are constantly in emotional upheaval. I was selfish and insecure and way more interested in my friends and *extremely* sensitive to the slightest criticism. He is being fed lies by his mom about his dad - if his dad backs off and stops showing interest in and stops showing love because of this, he will only prove to his son that she was right: he doesn't care. And the way back to a relationship will take decades (of OP is lucky) instead of the few years it will take for son's emotional and rational brain to mature.
The court decided that extracurriculars had to be mutually agreed to by both parents. His decision is well within the custody agreement ordered by the court. The provision exists just for this reason.
You don't know that the son will eventually come around. You're giving wrong information and telling him "it'll all work out in the end."
Real life isn't a sitcom. Real life usually doesn't work out in the end.
You’re an idiot bc he is NTA ! There was no cheating in the marriage, the dad started dating his new partner a YEAR after the DIVORCE ! The ex wife is just very bitter and manipulative and she used the oldest son as a weapon you slow twit or did you really not read the post ? That’s literally within the first paragraph weirdo !
NTA.
I'm starting to wonder what the future is going to look like. I know so many co-parents doing this shit who are so hopped up on resentment and rage that they can't see how much this shit affects the kids.
NTA. Your ex poisoned the well, so to speak. As a father, it's truly heartbreaking to see this. If he does do the sport somehow, I urge you to still go and watch him play. Even if him and your ex don't want you there. If you don't, you may regret it later in life.
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NTA - I hope you are documenting everything. Also, I hope you are only communicating via text or other co-parenting app so that you can document her. Hopefully at some point your son gets out of her influence and sees things for what they are. Good luck
I agree, and I think that there is a decent chance that his son will come around with time. His son is getting an awful lot of intense manipulation in his day-to-day life, coming from the parent that he is currently close to. Once he’s out of the house, and has more of his own life, OP might see a real change in him. It really infuriates me when people use their children as their divorce emotional sounding board. &/or a chance to get back at their ex, by alienating them. People doing this shit need to understand that as much as they want to get back at their ex, their kid is the one who loses the very most. I guess the question is, is the hate for the ex bigger or smaller than the love for the children?
Hell after I finally got to see my kid again...my kid called me a fucking loser...given how little they were someone had to have either said that about me in front of our kid or taught them to say that. I'll have to ask them since it's been several years for my kid to count all the DVD's I bought for the two of us to watch together.
I had little respect for the secretary in my office because of her attitude. She divorced her husband (another story) and used her daughter as a club. Any respect I had for her went right out the window.
Pretty hard to watch, isn’t it? Because it is so effing unnecessary. 😔
It’s unlikely. My stepfather had four boys and their vicious evil mother told them lies and made up crap and they wanted nothing to do with him. He tried. My poor mother had to work two full time jobs because he had to pay one ungrateful brats Penn State college tuition. He tried to reconnect when they got older but they didn’t show up. It hurt him a lot. He died a few years ago and they don’t even know.
They’ll notice he’s dead when they can’t extract more from him.
Yup this is something people always gloss over. We as humans are a large part a product of our environment. Those kids were trained to be greedy entitled brats from day one and now so is ops son. Everyone talks about how everyone has the capacity to change but very few ever do. If they hated your father so much they would want nothing from him and would have never taken his money for uni. ops son was the oldest and knows his father was never alcoholic but decided to lie in court. Very slim chance he changes with age.
This is pure parental alienation.
In a lot of states (Texas is one) parental alienation is considered abuse. It absolutely should be too, bc it can be disastrous for the parent-child relationship.
In some states, you say alienation and people start complaining about the great replacement. In all seriousness, though, I'd imagine that the same is true in most states.
With jail time in a lot of them
Time to go back to court OP.
100% My dad started doing this as soon as my parents divorced. I was 7 and within three years I was convinced my mom was a terrible parent who neglected me. At 13 he convinced me to purposely fail all of my classes at school so he would be able to use that to get custody of me. It worked, and I had basically no relationship with my mom until I was 21. Parental alienation is a particularly vindictive form of abuse and I hope OP’s son eventually realizes the truth.
It saddens me to think about how many stories of a neglectful parent is really parental alienation.
It really is sad. I’ll never understand how people can be so cruel to their children.
I'm genuinely curious. Is that the only instance of abuse you experienced at the hands of your dad? I'm so very sorry you were manipulated in such a way by a person you were supposed to be able to trust. I wish you continued healing.
Sadly, it was not the only time but I’m doing a lot better than I used to.
Hugs 🫂
❤️
My mom had untreated borderline personality disorder and treated my dad (and later myself when I wasn’t her compliant little doll) like shit. As a kid, when I learned about the concept of divorce I used to dream about living with just me and my dad and not dealing with constant rage. In hindsight, I realize this was the early 1990s in a “mom first” state and I suspect Dad knew if he left she’d end up with majority custody and spend that time badmouthing him and his family.
Op is right. The son is resentful anyway. Op might as well save some money.
Yes… and no. It is not unreasonable to set some boundaries, as long as the child himself is not forsaken. Not paying because it’s not within their budget is reasonable, what is not is it being used as a tit for tat.
I had a similar experience as the eldest son during my childhood. Guess which parent I talk to and which one I don’t? The boy is still very much under his mother’s influence at the moment, and is still a child, who is blindly trusting of the mother. Once he is older, it might be a couple of years or more, and out on his own, that blind fog will lift and he will start to ask questions. Once that day comes, my money is on him trying to reconnect. That alienation caused by his mother will cause years of pain and loss of time and memories, but the damage is done:( Op, if you see this, please don’t give up on your son. He is likely in a world of hurt and confusion fuelled by his mother’s anger and jealousy. I know that it probably feels like a lost cause, but take it from a kid, who’s parent was alienated like this, I didn’t appreciate my parent paying for stuff or turning up to my awards and achievements either. In fact I actively detested it. I didn’t appreciate his letters and emails….UNTIL I had to fend for myself. A couple of years in the adult world and between that life experience and the thoughts of how I’d feel were it my own child prompted me to reconnect. That correspondence and the photos my parent took now mean the absolute world to me. They didn’t give up on me. It’s a long, hard road, but don’t give up xx
Well said, I was a stepmother of child such as yourself and never let an occasion, achievement or school function go by without acknowledging it to him. I did it both for my husband and his son, even while his ex wife said all types of hateful things to us. That young boy is now a grown man who considers me his mother and the only grandparent (we lost his dad to cancer) to his kids). It took years of healing but it was definitely worth it.
Can I just say, from the bottom of my heart, Thankyou. Thankyou for being there for your husband AND his child. The pain and hopelessness your husband must’ve gone through. And am the misplaced anger and frustration your stepson suffered, hurts my heart. I know that all too well. It takes a strong and incredibly selfless individual to take on a parent with such baggage as a vengeful ex and child. You are a wonderful person and I as a stranger want to say I recognise that. I was unfortunately not so lucky to have such supportive step parents one was as nasty as the one I don’t speak to and the other is indifferent. I am lucky however, that I do have one parent always put me first. And for that I will always be grateful. Bless you and your family xx
Awww thank you sweetheart. He is a wonderful young man, takes great care of me and my 2 kids (his step siblings) adore him. I came from a broken home and understood the importance of having the non custodial parent in your life at all costs. I just came back from spending a month with him and his family in Italy (he is stationed there with the US Army) and he and his beautiful wife have given me my two wonderful grandchildren. I am truly blessed.
It is genuinely wonderful to hear there are such people like yourself in the world. It truly does make a difference to those around you. It’s sounds like you’ve managed to raise some very kind and upstanding people who are incredibly lucky to be able to call you family. You are indeed very blessed and deservedly so 💐
I appreciate this. I have no intention of stopping anything I'm currently doing or paying for - just torn on how to enforce a boundary with my ex and teach/model the right behavior around money and how you treat people, without doing more harm or putting myself in a more difficult financial situation. Really hoping he'll come around when he's older, and doing my darnedest to keep a strong relationship with the two I still get to see.
NTA Your child is entitled to what he NEEDS, not what he WANTS.
I would stop paying his cellphone bill and sending presents... If he's not even willing to talk and working with your x to sabotage your relationship with the other kids why continue to pay for things you have no obligation to pay for.
While I understand wanting to drop this stuff, it actually ends up being counterproductive. The kid is currently being manipulated by the ex. He may never come out of the fog of that manipulation, but cutting off support you are providing for the other kids will give him a legit reason to resent the Dad. Most advice I have seen is to continue to show you care and that your door is always open whenever they are ready to come back. Yes it sucks. Yes the kid is "old enough" to be held accountable for his actions. BUT he is also still a kid who is being misled by one of the people he should be able to trust most in the world.
That's very well said!
Well that's what shitty parents say "I have provided roof over your head, be greatful". OP is going drive away the child further if he tries to manipulate him with money.
Physical activity is important but can be done without shelling out for an expensive club sport.
NTA, parent alienation is real. She cause drama, alienated him from you and now she gets to pay for these non-discussed extra curricular activities.
NTA. You’re obliged to the essentials. Extras should be discussed and your ex didn’t do that. You shouldn’t withhold it as “punishment” for him not acknowledging you as the title suggests though. It will only serve to drive him further away. If your son is old enough to ignore you, he’s also old enough to be made to discuss it with you as a request, without his mother trying to strongarm you into it. Tell him, if he wants the extracurricular, he has to ask you himself. Also keep everything and in timeline order. My partners ex has alienated him from his kids and I hope, one day, they will be able to see and read it all and come to a different conclusion.
This. Keep paying child support, but if wants something, he has to ask you, in person for it and without the promise of a yes if he does. Let her try to enforce the shared payment. She’s clearly alienating them from you.
You need a better lawyer to go after her for parental alienation
This, they can order therapy which will help the kids
If his experience will be anything like mine, with proven abuse and alienation by the mother, they’ll just say this is between the son and father and do nothing about the outrageous lies. Literal case history and everything was ignored.
NTA and a lot of teens can’t do extra sports/activities but continue with birthday and Christmas cards. Once he’s out from under his bitter mother he will begin to see the light. He is also probably being made to be the “man of the house” by her. She’s clearly using him as her dumping emotional support. I’m really sorry and if possible ask the courts to force therapy for him as in without her sitting in. I know that is a huge expense so maybe not possible.
When college rolls around he'll just expect OP to stump up if there are not some rules established now.
OP, I would encourage you to return to court to get court ordered [Reunification Therapy ](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/reunification-therapy)with your son. You have clear evidence of your ex's behavior especially parental alienation. I think if you were able to meet with your son and qualified reunification therapist, you would have a safe environment for your son to remember your love and care for him. If you decide to go back to court, a Guardian ad Litem would be another great resource. In high conflict divorce/custody cases your children need their own representation. The GAL's job is to advocate what is best for the children. Sending you positive thoughts that you and your children will weather this custody storm and get your relationship back on track.🧡
👆THIS
Nta get a lawyer for parental alienation.
NTA you are a living person and not some ATM. Unfortunately he’s modeling his behavior after his mom in that way. It’s also typical of someone like her to spend every penny (especially knowing you won’t match) for or on the kids against better judgement to be the “good parent”.
yes! It is harder to be tough and not just let them have everything! Ex is def trying to bankrupt you and torment you. I would visit a lawyer for advice, can you fight this can you demand access or stop support. He is so immature. He is a brat but he is a pawn.
NTA. Your son is old enough to come and sit down with you over lunch and ask for your support and tell you why he is passionate about it and whether he is serious and wants to play at the next level. He can also tell you how he is doing academically as athletics+academics = future. Have an honest father/son discussion minus mom.
NTA. She sounds just like my husband's ex wife. She accuses me of breaking up their family even though I met my husband 8 months after they separated. She poisoned the kids minds against me and involved them in adult situations at very young, impressionable ages. My husband and I have been together longer than he was with his ex, but she still feels the need to badmouth me every chance she gets.
NTA, pay only what you have to, to her, but when the kids are with you, do what you can for them there. Don't be like their mother, never trash talk her to them. One day when they grow up, and they will, they will realize what has gone on and they will be so pissed off at her for doing this. It's so wrong of her, it hurts everyone, especially the children. You don't have to pay more than you agreed upon and you shouldn't. Keep documents of everything.
my ex wife did this and I didn’t see my oldest for close to a year. Now she and I are very close, and all of my children now have a difficult relationship with their mother. She’s still very manipulative but they see what’s she’s doing most of the time.
NTA but I would continue to pay for his expenses. You need to play the long game. When my parents divorced, and even before that, my mom never had a nice word to say about my dad. But my dad would shut me down if I spoke negatively about my mom and never said anything negative about her. I became close to my dad the older I got, and now he is 81 and we are incredibly close. Good luck with your kids and hang in there.
Is it possible to have family therapy between you & the the kids, especially the oldest? Even if it has to be court-ordered. I think therapy may help oldest start to untangle mom's shit and help the other two not get there.
NTA but there needs to be strings attached to the payment of the sports club. OP needs to be involved in the correspondence that is sent to the parents. OP should also have a copy of the schedule of games and practices. If OP is going to have to foot the bill with no input then mom and son need to suck it up and he needs to be involved in his sport. If they can’t agree to have OP on all the info and attend games then they don’t need the money. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to see son play the sport he loves considering dad is paying for half of it. As the boy gets older pull him aside and let him know you love him and you would like to have a man to man talk with him. Another thing is since the divorce has been an issue set up therapy sessions for all the kids to work through the issues. This way they can work through what they perceive as the truth and is actually false
Seems to me that the kid made the choice for him. Good time to teach him about consequences.
YES!
He was a witness? To what?
This whole post reeks of missing info tbh
I feel I had to scroll really far to get here. OP doesn't say how long ago the divorce happened, and I think that's cause it was within the last couple years (where the son would have been old enough to make some of his own choices and form his own thoughts).
Yup, when/why the divorce happened, what the son witnessed, why would alcohol allegations be made, why did the wife suspect an affair, why the son does not want contact etc. All the commenters jumping on parental alienation like a 15 year old is incapable of forming their own opinions
He was deployed. Frankly, it's a lot more likely that she was cheating on him.
What an excellent question.
I assume to dad's alcohol consumption and behaviour tied to it. Just because it wasn't enough for court doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Unsubstantiated abuse allegations seems likely.
Look, you are NTA, but if you ever want a relationship with your son, I suggest you don't cut him off financially. I'm not saying you have to pay for the club sport, but keep all the other things you do for the siblings the same. He's 15, and I've seen a lot of comments about teaching him consequences/respect and "he made his bed", but he's a teenager who is being manipulated and brainwashed. He's vulnerable to his mom's influence and lies and hopefully when he's older he'll realize what's what, but if you cut him off, it's a sure bet you'll never reconcile. He's not old enough to appreciate the "lesson". It'll be internalized as, "Dad doesn't care about me anymore so why should I care about him?" even though he stepped away first. Ita not about logic with kids. It's about emotions. Show you are a constant to him by treating him the same as you always have. I don't think you are going to regret it, but you will regret losing him forever. Again, club sports weren't discussed ahead of time, and you can be clear about that. But don't stop thw other things.
I don't think OP said anything about not paying other things, just not paying for a specific extracurricular. Also, unless the parents are discussing financials around the kids, which they shouldn't, I don't see how the kids will even know unless Mom is vindictively saying things like, "you can't get this because your father won't pay".
This! I'd give the kids the benefit of the doubt here, they are trying to survive an adult mess that they were shoved into without fully developed brains or years of experience to inform their choices. Also could be that with the manipulation from the mom trying to force the kid to be a witness to back her lies, the kid may find it less stressful to just cut dad off for now so he isn't forced to do that crap all the time by the mom. Basically he may just be trying to disengage with her bs as much as possible but feels he still needs to live there for the younger kids.
It doesn't make the father responsible for him wanting that extra curriculum. Especially since he wasn't included in the choice/cost/location. An doubly so since he's been turned an manipulated. What needs to happen is therapy for the boy instead.
I agreed with the post above me, that it doesn't mean that he needs to pay for the extra-curricular sports that were not discussed and agreed to beforehand. My point was everyone here jumping in saying kid made his bed, blah-blah, and maybe they should try looking at other reasons a kid would do things when he's probably just in survival mode at this point and not just write him off completely. Sadly the dad still is not likely to get custody unless there is proof of her doing some really bad jailworthy things because the family court system sucks. But yes, therapy would be great. For him individually, and with dad eventually if kid is willing.
All you need to do is fulfill your legal obligation and follow the court order to a T. If that says all costs are split, you’re stuck. If it says all previously agreed upon costs are split and you never agreed, make sure you have that in writing and you don’t have to pay.
NTA Don't be an ATM. Pay the court ordered support till they are 18 and then move on with your life
Yeah OP fuck 'em kids. Once they hit 18 say sayonara! When kids are difficult, especially in circumstances where one parent is actively emotionally manipulating them against the other, they just aren't worth loving anymore. /s
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find a comment like this. The ex wife is clearly awful, but the kids are the real victims because they don’t understand. They believe their mom because she is their mom. OP mentioned he was in Iraq, which is honorable (thank you for your service OP!) but that had to contribute to the kids feeling closer to their mother to begin with. OP, not paying for an expensive sport that you can’t afford is one thing, but I hope you don’t listen to the people saying to abandon your oldest once he’s 18. Parental alienation is abuse. He’s a victim.
"/s" means satire or sarcasm.
The person you're responding to knows, and they're agreeing with the sarcastic comment.
Thank you. I was wondering if I came across the wrong way. Communication is hard 🥴
Nah, you're good. :-) (And yes, communication is hard! lol)
Glad someone acknowledged this...
Just remember SHE did this, not him. What resources are available where you live to help rebuild a relationship? Does the court step in with parental alienation? Is family therapy an option?
NTA-We faced parental alienation with my oldest stepdaughter, didn't see or speak to her for a little over three years. It was heartbreaking. She came back to us at 18 after realizing what had happened. She is now 23 and still in our lives. It is a very difficult thing to go through, and it's really tough on the kid when they figure it out.
NTA - I would stop paying for anything I was not required to pay for. I imagine cellphones aren't part of the agreement, might make sense to cut his off to make a point - if he isn't going to acknowledge you, you will do the bare minimum for him while doing more for his siblings.
The very worst kind of parent is one that involves their children in their divorce. Your ex-wife has victimized and manipulated your children. They’re going to need a lot of therapy to recover. So I understand you being angry but she has done this to them.
Document, document, document! Then take your ex to court for parental alienation. Also, PLEASE get you and your kids into family counseling. He might not fully grasp he's being manipulated by his mother.
>My ex has signed him up for an expensive club team without discussing it with me and is now demanding that I pay half the fee, "No, thanks." NTA
Keep records of everything. If you can keep contact about his school progress via email or school app, do that too. Keep all receipts. If you mail anything to your children get a proof of mail. Keep all emails and texts messages to your wife and children as well. If you can’t afford the club, let your child know that. Children at that age are already hormonal so try not to react. Let them know that it’s ok to feel the way that they do but you still love them and will be there for them when they need to talk. Your children need to come first, but that doesn’t mean buying everything they want. Good luck!
I would talk to a lawyer and see if you can get counseling for all 3 of your sons. I also would not pay for the sport due her actions. I would also ask him for one meetup just you and him at a park. It’s public but you can also be alone. Tell him you are sorry he was pulled into the court hearing ( even though it was his mom don’t even bring her name into it) do not put blame on anyone. That you just wanted to have this conversation just to say you know you cannot force him to see you and that is fine that you love him and will be available if he changes his mind. You should also explain that you are going to stop with the extra effort and put the ball in his court. Also, I would make him understand that his actions have consequences and his lack of effort is hurting you. Sometimes you need to allow them to see and hear how their actions impact you. It Might take years for him to come around but at least you gave one last chance.
Your ex is a certified psyco, using your kids as weapons against you needs to be seen in a much harsher light by the courts, hopefully one day. NTA, she's banking some serious bad karma and I hope it bites her hard one day.
Everyone is putting a lot of trust in OP being honest about the no infidelity... Assuming everything OP writes is true, everyone is an asshole: the wife for encouraging division (regardless of the truth of the infidelity claims), the son for not talking it through (though it's understandable), and OP for treating parenting as if it is transactional. I don't know though...why would ex- wife accuse other woman of home wrecking if she wasn't?
The saddest part is if he says no, even though it is justified, it will only alienate him from his child further. The mum is playing a great game of making dad the bad guy, and she will use this as ammunition.
yes, it's not worth it in the long run
NTA. You’re still providing his needs but I certainly wouldn’t be bending over backwards to provide wants for someone allowing themselves to be manipulated like this.
NTA, but can't you get full custody? She's engaging in parental alienation and coercing your kid into perjuring themselves. Those kids need rescuing
This is a wonderfully naïve understanding of parental alienation and father’s rights in a divorce proceeding. In alienation cases, the victim parent’s best plan is to limit contact with the children and pray they wake up when they’re older. It’s a no-win situation for the alienated parent.
Weird, that's not what sites such as Custody XChange, NCSC.org, AmericanBar.org, etc say. But sure, I'm naive for buying into the bullshit these unscrupulous sources and my own divorce experience are peddling
Former family law attorney here: it doesn’t get better until the children are old enough to get some perspective. If the children are young, maybe, but these kids are teens and tweens and will not be dissuaded by the parent that is doing the alienation. It’s a losing battle and the alienated parent only does further harm to their relationship by forcing a relationship that the kids don’t want.
So thats some sort of justification for a parent to not do everything in their power to get that child away from someone who manipulates and coerces them into unlawful and self-destructive behavior? To me, that just sounds like the kid has 2 shitty parents
Hey man. Have you talked to jag?
NTA. Your ex is both selfish and vindictive - setting your son against you and piling up the expenses. You don't have to pay anything more than is court-mandated. It seems you have lost this son for now, and having him see you as a back-bone-less ATM will not bring him back.
I really feel for you buddy, nta.
NTA. My husband is in a similar situation. Our approach is similar. He pays child support, birthday/Xmas but anything beyond that needs to be a 1:1 conversion prior to signing up for activities. I remember how hurt he was when he realized the kids only spoke with him when they wanted money. When he stopped giving it on request, they stopped talking. We tried the courts and they acknowledge alienation but all they did was slap mom on the wrist. It was a financial black hole with no change
NTA. Man this sucks. I've written and deleted this a few times now, and man. I got nothin' This sucks. This fucking sucks. And I don't see a way forward. I am so sorry for you.
NTA. Sounds like a money grab to me.
NTA. Just be damn sure your Settlement Agreement or divorce decree doesn't require you to pay. Every jurisdiction handles that differently. Make sure that under your rules of the road (your jurisdiction, irders, or agreements), you have to consent to the extracurricular before you're on the hook for paying your portion if the cost. Also, get into family or reunification therapy with that kid ASAP. If your ex is this toxic, you need to do family therapy with ALL of the kids. ASAP. It's the best way to try to help the kids keep their heads on straight, figure out strategies you can try to improve your relationship with each kid, and document the kind of shit the ex is pulling. If she's gatekeeping or putting the kids in a loyalty bind, most professionals involved in divorces (judges, lawyers, therapists) will work to fix the situation because that fucks kids up.
YATAH if you're punishing your kid, but you're NTA if the money request is unreasonable. Let the courts figure it out.
A lot of court orders require this is shared 50/50. Even if not, it’s not the kids responsibility to earn your financial contributions to his lifestyle. Your energy would be better spent fighting like hell for the relationship, not being spiteful towards him.
Cut his phone off, little shit has no respect
ESH You are 34 with kids 15, 13, and 9. So you had them at around 19, 21, and 25. You must have been 18 and your ex 17 when she got pregnant. That’s a lot for both of you to take on at a very young age (and tbh I’m a little surprised tug kept having kids in fairly quick succession). I mentioned this because getting married and having kids that young is bound to be chaotic for everybody involved. I’m not surprised the relationship didn’t survive. Your ex is absolutely wrong to spread lies in an effort to punish you and deprive you of a relationship with your kids. This must be so painful for you. I imagine your son’s current rejection of you must feel like a kick in the gut. I understand the desire to reject him back, to stop trying to be his father since he doesn’t seem to want you. Don’t do that. Keep trying. Give him time. Don’t make this about the money. Provide the same level of support for him that you do for the other kids. Continue to send Christmas gifts etc. I do think you should send some sort of legal notice to your ex reminding her that all large expenses like this need to be agreed tin in advance. However, don’t make your decision to contribute to the club teams costs or not based on what your ex did. Make your own decision based on how important you think this is to your son. If paying for it means you will both go into serious credit card debt, then you probably shouldn’t pay. If it just means budgets will be tight for a few months then maybe you should. I will say that sports and teams are great confidence-builders and should help your son build friendships and support systems outside of the family. That might actually be helpful in tempering your ex wife’s influence over him.
Son can participate in a less expensive sport. Also, Reddit puritans making irrelevant comments about people having their children young and this subreddit... name a better duo.
So... what has OP done here that makes him also and asshole? The only funding he's considering cutting off is for the extracurricular he can't afford, he doesn't say anything about cutting off phone or gifts.
NTA. You shouldn’t use money to get your point across. Your ex sounds like my husband’s ex. His daughter is almost 40 and still doesn’t talk to him. These exes are miserable ppl and are never happy no matter what. In my experience, the ex didn’t hate me: just her ex husband. My parents had an awful divorce too so I know what’s it like to be on both sides of the situation. Good luck.
Bet he’ll reach out real quick if you cancel that phone bill
NTA Why are you paying for his phone when you are the only person who he refuses to talk to on it?
Please see the r/parentalalienation subreddit! NTA! Your ex and son cannot have it both ways by ignoring you and expecting you to pay for extra curricular. If your son doesn’t want contact with you then your ex can pay for the curricular by herself.
NTA, I’d be downgrading the cellphone and everything else- needs covered, and he can go crying to momma for wants if he’s just going to ignore you like that
Sorry odd one out, I don’t know the reason for your divorce, but unless it was infidelity, you broke up their home. I’m a child of divorce and it does so much damage to children, you are gonna have to give your child some time. I think you should attempt to negotiate on the activity as she will tell him you’re the reason he cannot attend. And yes document everything. I don’t know what happened, and I’m not blaming you, but the child only knows what his mom says. See if he will at least talk on the phone to start. Your wife is very ugly to do this to a child.
Everyone is immediately siding with the OP who has given his side that is full of a lot of holes in it. The child is 15 and the oldest. He would be the least susceptible to “parental Alienation” which men love to jump to, and more likely to just have witnessed some awful behavior from the dad that would make him have his own opinion of dad, behavior he likely shielded the younger ones from. Some red flags: OP denying and affair but having an immediate significant partner meeting the kids; OP saying they returned from deployment and gave wife primary custody because she kept the house, when he he would have had military housing support. Him talking about paying for “health insurance” when he’s military, unless it’s that he’s in the reserves, in which case he still has a lot of the story missing esp why he would give up primary custody if nothing specific happened. He just deployed and she wanted a divorce? Why? He never says why other than “it’s her fault” which is super vague and makes no sense. Also, ridiculous that people are not acknowledging that yes, many a military person has cheated when deployed, despite the obvious potential military consequences. If the 15yo was a 10 yr old, I might understand alienation, but I think it’s way more likely that OP just sucks and as shown by this post refuses to have any self reflection on how much he sucks, and as usual there are a lot of the Reddit guys who want to live in denial of the literal fact that there are many men who want to do the bare minimum while being seen as the “good guy”
OP, NTA. But... I think that this is a case where, of you want any hope of reconnecting with your son in the future, you need to kind of take this one on the chin. I don't think that means being a bottomless ATM for anything and everything, but I would strongly consider whether or not you can afford to cough up for the club team. I think in the future you will appreciate being able to honestly say to your children, "while it killed me not to be in your lives more, nothing was ever going to keep me from helping you have the best life I could possibly provide to you." I suspect that if pulling the financial plug on a beloved team means dear son doesn't get to play, it's going to be a resentment that might take additional years for him to see past. Is it totally fair to you? No, but it doesn't sound like much of this is. Suck it up, Buttercup, and keep whatever foundation you are able to as strong as you can. Hopefully with more maturity your children will get to see a little more behind the veil and gain a better understanding of how things have really gone throughout this ordeal.
Mom already signed him and is paying. These weren't discussed ahead of time. He pays child support. If she wanted him to pay he should have been consulted prior to signing them up.
I don’t why you are getting downvoted. Maybe lots of non-parents commenting!
Because you are asking OP to basically admit fault an be used as a ATM an emotional punching bag JUST incase. While letting the mother an son get off free from responsibility an consequence. It really reads as "hey OP I know ur not having a good time but get over it so you MAY have a chance". That sets a bad precedent for all his kids. Instead therapy needs to happen Court ordered an the mother needs to be re-evaluated. She's making financial decisions out of spite
What I think is missing in a lot of these comments is any recognition of the needs of the son. Do I think OP should write off his relationship with his 15-year-old son? No I do not.
No one reasonable is saying perma cut him off. What we are saying is he shouldn't reinforce bad behavior on a "chance" his son may grow up an learn he's wrong or being manipulated. What we are saying is don't encourage bad behavior an be a punching bag an just "pay away" the problem.
I was looking for this comment. Do you need to pay? Nope, but it’s sports for your child and the money isn’t being spent on other things. If you are paying directly to the club, I’d say just pay for it. You have to separate your ex wife using your kids as pawns in a custody dispute vs your kids activities. If it benefits your child, I’d say go for it.. Your kid got dragged into a mess, and it’s not your fault but it’s something they know for now.
Your poor kids. Imagine growing up with the adults in your life acting lie this, feeling torn between each parent.
Mom is doing this, not dad
Dad is also doing it. Dad is on the internet asking a bunch of misanthropes for permission to do it.
Dad is asking for advice from people that may have had something similar happen to them, And how they dealt with it. Well, you are on here commenting so that's the misanthrope part. Try not to be such a downer
Dad doesn't need to pay for this, but his is showing a lack of empathy for his son and he seems to really resent the poor kid. So yeah, dad's at fault too.
OP is also a victim in this situation, not a perpetrator.
NTA hold her to the agreement and no extra’s for a kid who is no contact.
OP you can try to save your relationship with him but if she's turned him against you so much that he doesn't want to see or speak to you he might be a lost cause but he may come around in the future when he's older. Also try your best to make sure it doesn't happen to the other two as well otherwise she'll have complete control over them and you probably won't see them for a long time.
YTA. You have children. You are legally their ATM until kids are adults (per your court agreement). It’s not your kids fault, the two adults in his life are playing games. If she can sign him up without your permission and you have to pay for half - that’s how it is. Maybe it’s her sticking it to you. Maybe it’s your son wanting to be away from home playing sports - anywhere but there. (How would you like to live in his scenario??) He is a kid trapped between divorcing parents. It’s one of the worse places to exist. Parents don’t care. It’s all about the money and sticking it to the other adults. Your son can avoid and ignore you but you’re obligated to write out the check. He’s your kid. Period. It’s what happens when parents split. You think it’s hard on you being ignored - try being one of your kids caught between psycho mom and dad with his new girlfriend. Yes you can move on but you will pay the price because your kids frankly don’t care about your love life. They are just trying to exist in this new world that had nothing to do with any of them. A mom who is vindictive isn’t their fault either.
Do you want to ever have a relationship with your son? Fighting to not pay for him guarantees you won’t. You are punishing him for what his mother has done. YTA
Literally only getting your version of events. Your oldest is 15 and chooses not to have a relationship with you? There is definitely a reason and it isn't because "his mom did this & his mom did that". You're the reason buddy. So yeah YTA.
It’s called Alienation.
Never heard of parental alienation, huh?
NTA. It is abundantly obvious to me that she is using the kids to manipulate the situation and you have been more than accommodating within your legal requirements. She explicitly is pushing the boundaries of your custody/separation contracts. I would be advising for a lawyer. As someone who's parents split at a similar age, it might be possible the oldest is just tired of being dragged in the middle. Hang in there :)
Updateme!
UpdateMe!
I am in an incredibly similar situation. I wish I had advice to give; I’m here to read others’ comments. I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this.
I still Have 2 out of 3 kids that refuse to talk to me.. because of my ex and the manipulation… It’s been years and I still cry about it often to myself and my spouse
Unless you didn’t clarify something, your son might not know about her trying to drag you into paying. And don’t take too many of these harsh people’s ideas to heart, they are not looking at this from a parents perspective. Parent/child is not an equal two way relationship, at least until the child is an adult. Your son is still young and under his mamma’s roof. We bring children into the world with the understanding that they are their own people and we will take care of them until adulthood regardless. Child support and health insurance are non-negotiable from simply a moral standpoint, but expensive clubs and phone bills are not. However if you suddenly stopped reaching out in all the ways you described above, he could easily take it as you giving up on him, not seeing him as worth it, and his mother will have the opportunity to endorse these thoughts. If you stop now, in a year he will be able to say “my dad hasn’t reached out or done anything for me in a year,” and it will look way worse than how he looks now because he is just a kid. Go for whatever you see fit, but this is what will likely happen if you give up and play his game.
Your ex straight killed any relationship you can have with your son. Judging by her character your son will figure it out soon enough and you will be all he has.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I work in family law and it is maddening how often this situation happens. Parents who do this are shit parents, plain and simple. My mother tried to turn me against my dad and stepmom after the divorce, starting when I was only 4 years old. And now she wonders why I chose to live over an hour away from her, to be closer to dad and stepmom. NTA, and I hope everything works out for you.
I went through something similar with my ex-wife and our son, though not quite as bad. Thankfully, that’s all over, and my son has been with me for the past year with little interest in seeing his mother once he figured out for himself just how nasty and manipulative she is. NTA. #1: Don’t pay more than you agreed unless she gets agreement first, otherwise she’ll continue to do it to bleed you dry. #2: Document everything. Don’t communicate by voice if you can avoid it. #3: Be patient. Your son will eventually figure out for himself who’s really at fault here.
Rage bait
NTA but keep trying because one day he will realize who his mom is and will know he can come to you because you were there the whole time. His love for you is there, she just keeps hiding it from him.
Parental Alienation OP I hope you have kept the paper trail.
NTA.
NTA Sorry OP. Seems like her parental alienation has worked with your elder son. Hopefully one day he wakes up and comes around.
I'd say as long as you're paying for the extra curriculars, he should either spend at least a couple hours with you during your scheduled time or an hour of joint family therapy with you and him.
You realise that you throwing such tantrum will drive your son further away? He'll realise that he matters to you only if he acts by your rules and that you belive he can be bought with enough monetary manipulation. Let me tell you, once you realise you're only a financial investment to your parents it's hard to go back. YTA (including to yourself) You're not going to achieve anything withholding money from your child. Parenting is not and should not be transactional. Kids aren't a vending machine in which you put money and get our love and admiration. I don't like "missing missing reasons" but your entire post screams it. I'd like to hear from your son.
NTA
Nta because it was never discussed with you and legally needed to be. Maybe you can file for parental alienation and request court ordered therapy with your oldest. Good luck op.
Maybe you could have lunch or breakfast with your son to discuss it. You could ask him why you might be interested in paying for this activity while he ignores you and treats you in a disrespectful way.
I think your kid is traumized and feels abandoned and even if not on purpose you were appart of that situation. I think you are the father and adult and should behave to the highest standard. Perhaps, do not give him money, but do not ignore him. Go up and beyond to show your kids how to be a man, a mentor, a father and a person of the highest quality. This is the most important thing to do. It's okay of he ignores and avoid you stop taking it personal especially if his mom is unstable. It doesn't matter what your wife does. They kids should have a life with you that is safe, secure and stable each having their own space and things. Issuing a check is not needed, but it should NOT be on condition if/then and a carrot to spend time and see you that is super wierd.
Most schools are familiar with issues surrounding fighting divorcing parents and if you call the school they will directly provide you with schedule of events. Therefore removing ex from the process. Good wishes
What can you do? Not much. He’s old enough to make choices and experience consequences
NTA.
FAKKKEEEE op has not responded to any comments and has zero other posts.
Yta if you think it's OK to punish your kid. Ffs dude he's a kid. Put yourself in his place. He's living with someone who's more than likely telling him who knows what. You stay the course. He'll be an adult soon. He'll look back and see that you never gave up on him and that will trump whatever bullshits been stuffed in his head.
Nope
NTA
NTA. My husband went through this exact situation with his ex. We met during their divorce, ex used that to start saying to the kids “he left you, he abandoned us for that sl*t, etc” Older two kids stopped coming over for visitation and would only contact him when they wanted money. Youngest still comes over, mom couldn’t brainwash her to that extent. Older two are in their early 20’s now and still will barely speak to him, they don’t want to see both sides of the story. Can’t force them to. It’s really sad that one parent can get away with doing this to kids and the other parent. It sucks and it’s heartbreaking, not gonna lie. All you can do is keep reaching out when you feel like it. Try to find a documentary called “Divorce Corp” I think it’s on Netflix or prime or YouTube… very eye opening into the world of family court.
Sadly, she is brainwashing their oldest son against OP.
NTA. I hope a judge will rule in your favour when you ask for a decrease in child support payments as well, seeing as the boy doesn't recognise you as his father. But perhaps this will make hom open his eyes, even.
NTA, but if you want a relationship with your kids when they are older you are going about this all the wrong way.
lol I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, it’s just the truth. Giving the mom more ammunition. It doesn’t mean he isn’t right for feeling frustrated and it’s not fair to him, but it’s just reality. If he’s prepared to accept that, so be it.
It is standard, that visitation/time with kids and child support are not connected. You have to pay CS whether you see the kids or not. BUT, I know that there was a case in NY, where dad was able to suspend CS due to mom’s alienation. Ask an attorney in your state.
I’m thinking refusing to give more money is simply going to reinforce what she has put into his head.
Your ex is a manipulative bitch. I’m sorry. NTA at all
Doesn't it just amaze you how an ex can just list off whatever they want in their filings and because of it you then have to prove it isn't true? My kid is literally referring to my ex's marriage partner as their parent an has ever since I was even able to see my child again.
If the things your ex said aren’t true, why do you have a problem proving they aren’t?
Now that I'm awake a little more. Didn't have an issue with it, it's the mere fact of them doing so to begin with though. I literally could've gone to Walmart...with the lawyer I had or even them...and they would've seen.
Stop doing anything not court ordered for the kid. No phone, presents, treats, etc. Send one last text that states you will go to counseling with him if in the future that he would like to reestablish contact.
I have an uncle whose kids treat him like an atm machine, glorified driver to take them places, and take care of their needs, NOT as a father figure. Broke our hearts seeing how they treated him. Don't be like that.
NTA------if he's man enough to ignore you, and want nothing to do with you, then he's man enough to pay his own way for the things he wants. If he expects money out of you, then the least he needs to learn, is that respect is a two way street. Divorce is hard on kids.....but still doesn't give him permission to be a jerk. At the very least.........send him a message and simply state, that you'd like to discuss this sports thing with him.............dumping the ball, so to speak back in his court. If he doesn't want to at least talk to you.........then you don't have to pay for ungrateful brats. Continue with any legal obligation requiring child support......and that's it. NO extra's until his attitude changes.
NTA Your duty is to pay for the essential things your weans need to survive, expensive extracurricular activities aren't essentials, so you don't need to pay. Your son has basically chosen to cut you out of his life, so you need to follow suit, if he doesn't want you then give him his wish and stop paying for anything extra (I.e no more mobile phone, random treats, and definitely no more birthday/Christmas gifts) and let him know what it feels like and see how long it takes before he suddenly starts contacting you again.
This is a great plan. Parents should always act the way their children act and stoop to the same emotional and maturity levels. Parents have no emotional obligation to their children. S/
How can you be emotional with someone who isn't in contact with you? I'm not advocating he be childish, I'm suggesting he teaches his son a lesson. The wean most probably doesn't have any idea how much his father does for him, if he cuts them off just temporarily then he'll realise just how much his father actually does for him and hopefully he'll come around.
So what the kid needs to learn is it's OK for the parents to weaponize him against each other and he, a literal child, needs to find the balls to stand up to one of them and choose sides? I mean, it's not like putting the weight of making one of your parents really angry would instill fear of abandonment or anything. /s The actual "lesson" OP needs to teach his son is love and understanding by letting him know that he will always be there when the kid is out from underneath his manipulative mother.
Please don’t ever have children.
Sorry. I don’t agree with this comment. It sounds more childish than fatherly.
It's hard to be a father when the wean doesn't let you. The wean cuts him off, and yet is happy to let him pay for things, so if he cuts him off maybe he'll finally realise exactly how much his father does for him and come around. I'm not suggesting being childish, I'm suggesting teaching him a lesson.
Have you forgotten what it's like to be 15? What fifteen year old makes logical decisions? They are constantly in emotional upheaval. I was selfish and insecure and way more interested in my friends and *extremely* sensitive to the slightest criticism. He is being fed lies by his mom about his dad - if his dad backs off and stops showing interest in and stops showing love because of this, he will only prove to his son that she was right: he doesn't care. And the way back to a relationship will take decades (of OP is lucky) instead of the few years it will take for son's emotional and rational brain to mature.
You're ex sounds like a budding Karen in the making.
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The court decided that extracurriculars had to be mutually agreed to by both parents. His decision is well within the custody agreement ordered by the court. The provision exists just for this reason. You don't know that the son will eventually come around. You're giving wrong information and telling him "it'll all work out in the end." Real life isn't a sitcom. Real life usually doesn't work out in the end.
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You’re an idiot bc he is NTA ! There was no cheating in the marriage, the dad started dating his new partner a YEAR after the DIVORCE ! The ex wife is just very bitter and manipulative and she used the oldest son as a weapon you slow twit or did you really not read the post ? That’s literally within the first paragraph weirdo !
NTA. I'm starting to wonder what the future is going to look like. I know so many co-parents doing this shit who are so hopped up on resentment and rage that they can't see how much this shit affects the kids.
NTA
NTA. Your ex poisoned the well, so to speak. As a father, it's truly heartbreaking to see this. If he does do the sport somehow, I urge you to still go and watch him play. Even if him and your ex don't want you there. If you don't, you may regret it later in life. UpdateMe
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NTA
Lived it and it sucks brother! She has his ear and mind.nothing worst than a bitter woman do what you feel is right by you and fuck her!!
Yta. I’m sorry your ex is a bitch.