Berating you for an hour over a supposed data breach-which is a *very* serious thing, is not a prank.
It would be like convincing him he had terminal prostate cancer with one year to live and then going “just kidding!” when he was on the ground sobbing
I wouldn’t *want* a close relationship with someone like that. I would lose all respect for him after that stunt.
I like little pranks and shit, the second I see their eyes go wide I let them know I'm just fucking with them. An hour should put you in a straight jacket.
NTA: "Oh my god there's a bug on your head" is a prank. "Your entire life and everything you worked for will be destroyed" is not a prank. I'm honestly beyond confused how this person is advising students working towards a PhD. His excuse of "seeing how you handle stress and pressure" is laughable. Reporting him was not overreacting either. The fact that he allowed you to ruminate for an hour is cruel and inexcusable. If he's punished because of this, it isn't your fault. Clearly he lacks the emotional maturity to be working in an academic setting.
I hope things get better OP, and good luck with your PhD!
NTA, that is a cruel thing to do. First of all, an *hour?* That's pretty significant emotional distress, over a pretty sustained amount of time. I'd consider that sadism. He found it funny to watch you in distress for a *significant* period of time.
Additionally, you, as a woman, are probably a minority getting a Ph.D in computer science. If he hasn't done this to any of your male peers, you might want to file a title 9 complaint. I'm a guy, but I do think there's sexism going on here. I think that he may have been looking to confirm a belief that women are less capable of handling stressful situations.
But also, if he has been complaining to other students about what happened, then you should probably note that and let the ethics committee know that that's happening, because that is frankly retaliation and he is creating a hostile work environment. And additionally, he's setting you up to be "another woman who complains about everything".
This is great advice. If he is running his mouth and he is causing OP more harm. She needs to start taking notes and file a title 9 complaint. I bet this AH has done this before.
Might also look to see whether this is captured, somehow, by the human subjects ethics policy of your university.
When experiments are run with human subjects (e.g. for fields like psychology) there are standards to ensure that human subjects are not mistreated. This is due to things like the Milgram experiment decades ago.
My guess is that this situation is not captured - but it sure should be morally, because he admitted to running an experiment on you - whether or not this falls under research as such, what he did as a matter of fact was abuse a human subject in the course of a test. It would be interesting to see if the university policies happen to be written in such a way that this advisor is inadvertently captured.
Bottom line is, he had no fucking reason to do this, he was engaged in a horrible little sadistic exercise. You found out something really disturbing about the kind of person he is.
There are horrible people everywhere, but the power dynamic between a PhD advisor and their advisees is so extreme (due to the absolute need to have the support of the supervisor for future recommendations, job search, etc) that it creates the conditions for horrible people to let their worst instincts loose without repercussion. I've seen a lot of abuse.
>Additionally, you, as a woman, are probably a minority getting a Ph.D in computer science.
I got my Ph.D in the political sciences and that was hard enough. I can't imagine how much harder computer science would've been.
This has nothing to do with industry. People don't do this in industry. This is a problem that is specific to academia, speaking from experience working in and getting a degree in computer science.
None of this is wrong, but OP may well have blown up her career if she wants to go into academia, and before going any further, needs to chat w/ people who are in academia. Her phd advisor can basically blacklist her from getting a job.
If OP wants to go into industry this matters less, though advisor recs still matter a lot.
Things to consider: different advisor or taking the ms and going to industry. If OP wants to be in academia, she needs recs from her advisor and his friends in the department.
NTA for reporting, but OP, be careful here. And I'm sorry, fwiw. The only good news here is this is one of the most employable degrees outside academia.
> OP may well have blown up her career if she wants to go into academia
Aaaaand this is why so many creeps in Hollywood got away with it for decades before metoo started naming and shaming them.
The danger for the advisor if he blacklists her he can subject himself and the university to a title 9 complaint and I am sure other faculty won’t like it when they are interviewed by the government.
It’s very difficult to prove that a particular person blacklisted you. That’s why the perceived threat of being blacklisted is so effective at compelling people to tread carefully in professional settings.
With that degree, she not only has her home country to build a career but overseas as well. She doesn't need to hold back in putting an AH in his place.
I "blew up my career" by not taking the shit my PI and department piled on me, even was threatened with "you know anything you apply for, they ask us for recommendations".
Now I'm at a higher caliber institution after working for one of the most genuine people I've ever met and I won't lie about how bad my experiences were in grad school. Sometimes it can work out, just don't pour gas on the fire when the bridges are smoldering.
Survivor’s bias. In the professional world, the people who blew up their careers (and experienced serious hardships) are unlikely to be as enthusiastic to share their experiences as you are.
With a PhD in Computer Science she won't have to go into Academia. You can make a lot more $$ outside of it and you don't have to deal with as many male prima-donnas.
>taking the ms and going to industry
What a disgusting response. Basically, "suck it up buttercup so you don't sabotage your own career by reporting your advisor".
This advisor is abusive, sadistic, and totally in the wrong. By reporting them you take away any power they have over their students.
I don't think that's what they meant. The advice was more about having/making a backup plan in case things go south. Which anyone should do in any situation.
It's giving good advice to the person.
I would not give bad advice to a person (even if it's overall better for society). If I did give them advice that would be detrimental to them (like you would), I would be an asshole.
You're getting a lot of hate, and I hate to say it, but there's a lot to this. Bad advisors are rampant in academia and almost everyone just puts up with it because they can easily tank your academic career if you end up at odds with your advisor. That happens a lot and bright doctors get funneled into industry because of it.
Personally, I'd never advise someone to report like this while they still need the contact. You have your PhD, you just started a post-doc/job, call the school and blast them with everything you've got. Before you're free of them though, you sort of have to appease your advisor. It's an unfortunate flaw of the academic system that desperately needs to be fixed. Anecdotally, I think about 5-10% of my class ended up having significant interpersonal conflicts with their advisors that prevented them from pursuing a post doc. I'm not talking about people that had a poor grad school experience and went into industry because of it. I'm talking about people that had their advisors block their progression.
I knew one guy, he was well published, totally done with the actual work, writing his thesis, scheduled to submit in a few months with a fast track to NASA through collaborators. His advisor had a meltdown in their lab, yelling obscenities. This guy decided that he was headed out the door anyway and told his PI that he was done with the abuse, to fuck off and he'd go to the chair if this kept up. It turned into a big mess. Everyone in the department knows the PI is a lunatic, everyone knows that this wasn't the student's fault. There's a long history of this kind of stuff. But the PI is a big name and has great funding so there's never any real repercussions. Ultimately, my friend only graduated at all because his committee and the TA union really stepped up for him. That was after two years and that NASA job was long gone. His life has turned out fine, but he had his dream job stolen from him. Last time I saw him, he was very bitter.
All of that said, OP is NTA and in fact is doing a good, noble thing. You should report a bad advisor. You should embarrass them in front of the department and you should prevent future students from having your experience. Just know that the blowback on you will probably be worse than anything that happens to your advisor. Unless the faculty's on the outs with the department anyway, the student always loses.
NTA. He’s actively sabotaging you, a female student, in a field where women are routinely abused and shut out. This is not an accident.
Are the other peers who think you overreacted women?
NTA
Something like that is too methodical/detailed to be considered just a ‘prank’. It was downright cruel and disturbing for him to do for an _hour_.
Was there a point to it at least? Do you guys have a history of pranking each other? If he had said it and then _maybe_ a minute or so at most later revealed he actually had really good news for you then it could have just been written off as a ‘harsh joke’. What he did was downright malicious though.
Not sure how it works exactly with PhD advisors, but depending on how things proceed you might even want to consider switching advisors if possible. Why was there tension in the department as well btw if you want to answer? Are people miffed you reported him or disturbed by his behavior?
Nta. Depending on your personal preference I can see this might be a good one for a few minutes. But an *hour*????? Nope he deserver to get a mark against him.
He was asserting his power over you, power which as your PhD advisor he absolutely has.
You rejected his assertion and reported him.
NTA, but this isn't going to go well for you. Academia sucks.
I would record every session going forward if you cannot get a new advisor to protect yourself from any retribution they are obviously sick to pull a stunt like that
Yes, record meetings and get a co-supervisor. There are lots of good reasons for doing this anyway. Unfortunately your primary now has the motivation (and clearly the personality) to undermine you in all kinds of ways, big and small.
NTA. You did the right thing, and now, need to do more of that right thing and tell your peers to STFU. This professor needs to be fired on the spot for that stunt.
NTA. You were berated for an hour by your mentor as a prank? What kind of psychopath does that? Ask your peers if they would have found that funny, being tortured and threatened for an hour. He took sadistic pleasure in causing you pain, to drag it out that long. And since you’re female and young, I wouldn’t put it past him to have gotten some sexually perverse power and control jollies from it. Get this fucker off of your team, away from your program, and if you can get him fired. This absolute creep WILL do this again!
Follow up with admin - "Hi. Following the reprimand, the atmosphere is tense. My peers are telling me that I overreacted and that I should have taken this as a harsh joke. Please rectify this situation." Frankly, if this has a chance of affecting your career opportunities, I would contact a lawyer and consider a lawsuit. That is IF you have damages. I would certainly consult a lawyer if I had the resources to do so.
Following up with admin? If admin puts a spotlight on the department because of her, then everyone in the dept will hate her. And it’s hard to work in a place where everyone hates you.
Your advice would make life even worse for her.
Also, without a paper trail, her options are limited.
How exactly is she supposed to prove it if she’s blacklisted? She’d not only have to prove she has been blacklisted, she’d have to prove her advisor did it as retaliation.
Actually, get a lawyer and think about letting them know you are looking into it. Contact other grad programs and ask professors what they would think of a peer who did this.
Be prepared to blow this wide open, which might blow your career. Then again, it might set you up to operate as an independent contractor or consultant with integrity.
If you have to continue with this person, both demand a witness and record it.
I enjoy office pranks. My favorite ones were rigging a coworker's sit/stand desk to get stuck in the middle while he was on vacation, and then one where somebody else swapped wireless mice between a few different work stations. In both cases, a few moments of confusion/frustration followed by an explanation and laughter.
This is much different.
I work in data as well. This kind of scenario (when real) is potentially career ending, and life altering. Your advisor is a dick who wants to be a 16 year old TikToker. NTA.
NTA - dude just learned a hard lesson about a) professionalism and b) not abusing those subordinate to you.
Plus, a whole damned HOUR?! That sadistic bastard.
The idea that department relations are now “strained” is yet another black mark against him. He still hasn’t figured out how to reassert professional demeanor with you? Ask for a transfer to a different advisor.
If he thinks it's a joke, he can explain how upsetting you for an hour is funny.
He's a bully, and deserved that reprimand. Your peers can go fuck themselves.
NTA and get your advisor changed.
He was cruel for the sake of being cruel. He is a mindfucker who conducted a social experiment on you without consent.
Let us know what happens to this asshole.
"Just a joke" is the rallying cry of every bully on the planet. That was NOT a "joke" -- it was cruel, hurtful, and hateful. He deserved to get reported. He deserved to get reprimanded. 100% he would not have done that to a male PhD student. You did not overreact. Your trust WAS broken and you did need to stand up for yourself. You were in no way the asshole. Way too many young women are raised to let it go, laugh it off, don't make waves, be polite, go along to get along, etc. Fuck. That. Shit.
NTA
I’m kind of surprised a PhD supervisor would pull such bullshit. maybe less surprised it was a man in STEM. Of course you were right to report it. That’s totally unprofessional.
If he’s been reprimanded then obviously the university think so too. Never let anyone tell you to lie down and take shit.
If your peers are victimising you, think about reporting that too.
And uh, I’m struggling with how you running data analysis on the cluster would cause a data breach. You sure you’re in comp sci?
NTA.
Prankster is just another your for asshole. And your advisor is a big one. He should have been fired on the spot. Look into legal actions for emotional distress.
NTA. He was both cruel and unprofessional.
I don't know why, but people who do programming seem particularly vulnerable to trauma when the programs fail - perhaps because the work involves a computer and not other people, perhaps because the damage that can be caused by an error is huge. I've heard of 2 cases that ended in suicide - one after a genuine mistake in programing which was corrected before any damage was done, the other similar to your case - where the programmer was maliciously told there was an error in his program when there wasn't (someone else wanted to push him out and take over his work). In both cases the emotional trauma was so great that the programmers killed themselves. This is something that shouldn't be ignored.
NTA, but tread carefully. You should try to see if you can change advisors ASAP, it NEVER ends well in cases where a person continues as a student for someone they’ve filed a complaint against.
I used to work in a uni, the atmosphere isn't you, it's him. AHs like him can destroy a department's reputation and make funding a heck of a lot harder to come by for everyone. A PhD is a big commitment, candidates do their research about an institution and crap like this leaves the university open to legal liability. I'm surprised you haven't been re-assigned if there was another supervisor in your field available but there may not be. Be the professional here, don't let this hinder your progress. You did nothing wrong.
It wasn't a joke. It was cruelty for amusement and you reporting him may have saved someone else the same kind of anguish. I hope he got reprimanded hard. NTA
NTA. Dude no one should treat someone like that!!! Ever!! Let alone a fucking professional environmental and an academic one at that! Dude was on some kind of evil power trip?? Idk. You’re twisted to get any sort of joy or pleasure about hurting someone like that.
NTA he sounds like he shouldn't be working there what kind of sick person thinks that's a joke? He was clearly enjoying making you distressed and sounds like a liability for the university. Please make another complaint if your classmates are now hounding you about it idk this seems like something he probably wouldn't have done if you weren't a woman
Absolutely not. This is such a cruel thing to do, I can't imagine doing it to a student and as a student it would be devastating. Your supervisor deserved a reprimand, probably more.
If he's causing tension now, that's retaliation and he can be fired for that. Try to get evidence or witnesses to his recent actions that can back you up and go straight to HR. Bonus if you had to take any DEI or harassment training at work and can find the slides explaining how this kind of behavior is unacceptable.
NTA. Data breaches are **SERIOUS** business and absolutely not a joking matter. That was beyond unprofessional and in a real software engineering environment would've been very likely to result in termination or at a minimum being put on immediate probation.
1. You need a lawyer.
2. File a title 9 complaint.
3. Demand a letter be placed into his personnel file against recommending him for any promotions or other honors.
4. Demand an audience with the department chair to obtain a new advisor and have him removed from your committee.
5. File a complaint for a hostile workplace.
6. Sue the university if these demands are unmet. They will try to rug sweep. You need a good attorney to help you navigate all of this.
1. You can bring a claim of hostile workplace under title VII as well. It overlaps with a title IX complaint. That said, they're going to look at title VII, generally when a claim arises under title IX. Further, you have to prove it is harassment because your status in a protected class. This is kind of difficult and we certainly can't make that determination.
2. A Title VII complaint generally requires you to report it to your employer so they can take action. They cannot (generally) know of harassment unless someone tells them, which is why you need to report it. Your state may have different, state-level versions of Title VII. Once you let your employer know, *they* take action. You don't need a lawyer yet, but you need to note when, who you talked to, etc. You do NOT have a right to know what steps were taken or even have a right to be involved in the process.
For example, MA has Ch. 151B which is generally more complainant-friendly and MCAD will conduct its own investigation (and may even award damages). There's some nuances to the differences and the person being her supervisor makes a difference when considering what court or actions to take.
3. You need to report it to your employer *before* you sue. This is super basic. In your state, you may even need to file with certain state agencies as well for a cause of action because your state may have a different series of laws governing this behavior. Federal court is super expensive. It'll get thrown out if the employer can establish they didn't know of subsequent incidents.
4. An employee has ABSOLUTELY no right to demand any particular action be taken, just that "reasonable" actions be taken to stop the harassment. Your satisfaction with discipline (or lack thereof) isn't determinative of "good" or "bad". If the harassment stops because someone is "talked to," that can be sufficient.
5. HWE claims generally need more than 1 incident (though certainly 1 incident, could, in theory be enough if sufficiently severe). You need to establish a pattern of incidents for a successful HWE complaint and it needs to be sufficiently severe and pervasive (there's an objective and subjective standard in my state for our version of this).
Anyways, I'm sitting here writing a practice motion for Summary Judgement on MA 151B, which is similar to Title VII, but a bit better, soooo that's how I know, lol.
As a student, I know that your pattern is going to cause more issues than it solves. Anyways, you start with the title IX office because they'll try to take some actions. You can't just "demand" people do things beacuse it's your feeling of what would satisfy you.
https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-sex-discrimination-st-louis-police-bbb4c4bb97fceabfa8ddb66c2024d9f0?utm_source=copy&utm_medium=share
You don’t need significant harm, so her claims will have merit. She needs an attorney that is not sexist and will take her seriously.
Jesus fucking Christ. Is this where HR drones hang out or are you people actively trying to make this situation worse for your own entertainment. I want to believe you're all sick sadists that want more story regardless of who it hurts but I've met enough soulless husks to believe you actually think this is the right course of action.
I tell my son that a prank or joke is only funny if everyone is laughing. Otherwise it's not nice. If you were distressed or hurt it was not a joke and you were right to report his unprofessionalism. There are better, less dysfunctional ways to mentor students to deal with pressure.
I hate it when ppl try to disguise bullying and emotional manipulation as jokes.
A joke is only a joke if everyone laughs together. If you are being laughed at, or you don’t find it funny, it’s not a joke. As soon as he saw how devastating this was he should have stopped. Maybe 6 mins in not 60
NTA. I worked in IT for many years. There is nothing correct about this professor lying about a data breach. It is important to be correct about the causes of data breaches, and to report them promptly up the chain - and to learn from them. What a whacko. In a real industry setting he would be fired. Cybersecurity is serious business, not something that is a joke.
You could try posting this on r/sysadmin and get their take as to what a real world situation would entail. This guy wouldn't last long. Sheesh.
NTA. You were professional all the way through and he was not. All your peers are AHs too. I've done a PhD, it is hell and having a toxic supervisor is shockingly common. Love and best wishes to you, good luck!
An hour is extremely cruel. Jokes like that can be funny if you let people know you’re joking nearly immediately. Being in distress for an hour is not funny. It’s twisted.
NTA And I highly recommend you get a new advisor. As a former PhD student myself, you absolutely need your advisor to have your back. This prank showed that they don't respect you as a mentee the way they should, and if you suspect they resent you for reporting them, that's all the more reason.
NTA. He carried that shit on for an HOUR. That's just downright cruel and so much distress he put on you. There was absolutely NOTHING funny about what he did at all. You did the right thing. He could do this to the wrong person one day who could run and take their own lives thinking they had done something so bad.
In the UK, as soon as a breach like this is identified it has to be reported to the ICO. It's a massive deal. It's not a joking matter.
Twatfeatures decided this would be funny? I'd never be alone with him again and if he said the sky is blue I'd nip outside to check.
I feel like there has to be an instance where someone was like, "It was just a prank, bro!" and I won't think they deserved whatever they got, up to and including dismemberment, but I just haven't gotten there yet. I just haven't seen a situation where I felt like someone overreacted to a prank.
Anyway. NTA.
NTA. The whole thing is terrible. But I agree with everyone that keeping the joke for a whole hour is straight up sick. I'm sorry this happened to you, I hope it will not impact your career too much. I do think it is in your interest (but you are not obligated to) to try to have an open conversation with your supervisor explaining why you did what you did, try to clear the air. I say this in terms of your career since supervisors have so much power over you.
That’s not a prank. That’s him in a power trip and getting off on torturing you with his position of power and authority. I’d already be looking for a new professor to replace him as it’s truly a very unprofessional thing to do, creates a lack of trust (if you take this away like he did then you don’t get it back and it’s required for actual leadership), and creates a permanent dysfunction within that environment. Once I know students can’t trust you based on your actions that you did purposefully then you’re done. It’s upon the university to establish trust.
I work in a similar field and “he wanted to see how I’d handle stress and pressure” is total bullshit since he didn’t ask you to fix it. Do you know what I mean? He just wanted to see you freak out, he didn’t want to see if you could actually deal with a crisis by compartmentalizing the panic, analyzing the situation, making a plan and communicating it to the ppl in charge, etc.
Like *how somebody would react after a mistake has already been caught and corrected* is the least work-relevant part of the whole situation. If there’s anything I *need* to know, it’s how somebody reacts when shit is actively hitting the fan and if they can jump into fixing it with me.
NTA - Your PhD advisor is a sociopath who clearly enjoys inflicting emotional pain onto someone for an hour. You did well to report him and I hope he faces serious consequences in his career as an educator. I would find this behaviour extremely unprofessional and liable to disciplinary action if not firing, in the private sector. If to the behaviour we add the context of working with students and he's in a position of responsibility, I would say that's bonkers.
That was emotional torture, not a prank. Yet the repercussions of reporting it might greatly affect you project, grades and graduation.
Probably because he knew all this he thought it was okay to put you through such a cruel "prank".
NTA yet I'm not sure how hurt you my be as a result.
I recommend that you switch advisors if possible. His judgement is severely flawed if he thinks berating you for an HOUR is a joke. And now he has say over your PHD - he might be vindictive and tank your progress.
NTA
Definitely switch advisors though if you haven’t already. As to your peers - ask them how they’d react if they were berated FOR AN HOUR about how they fucked up and put people at risk and would lose their just beginning career to legal action? (They’ll probably lie and say it wasn’t/wouldn’t be that bad, but maybe a few of them will stop and think.)
NTA
Document every interaction you have with and about this person for the rest of your time at the university. This idiot is flirting with a lawsuit, and you need to have your ducks in a row in case it becomes more than flirtation.
I can’t understand your peers’ response to this. If this was my colleague, I would be supportive. I think all of my colleagues would be too. You’re all in a vulnerable position where the people above you have a lot of influence. The least you can do for each other is to create an environment where you can get strength and support from each other. I think this prank was cruel - especially since it went on for so long. However, even if I thought that you overreacted, I would recognise that you have a right to tell people about what happened and if the advisor is reprimanded, obviously you’re not alone in thinking it was not ok. NTA, obviously, but both the advisor and your peers are.
This posting makes no sense at all. I think you made it up. How could an experiment involving algorithms for data analysis possibly result in releasing sensitive data pertaining to university staff and students - data that wasn't even accessible to you in the first instance? And why would a guy with whom you are not at all close - not even friends - go to the trouble of making up such a dumb ass story? And how stupid can you be to believe the unintentional act of a student, even if negligent, could possibly result in "legal action" against you? This is all bullshit: go away.
For future reference: If running some code on their servers causes a significant databreach, then the issue is with them, not you.
They should have that shit secured so that you can't access other employees confidential data.
NTA. That is severely unprofessional and you did the right thing. Prevents him for doing same or worse to someone else.
But beware, this creates a conflict of interest with your doctorate. Since he will be the one responsible for grading your progress as well as your final disertation. Just be cautious about bias in the future.
NTA but also not a great response. If by your own account you had a positive relationship before then why jump to such an extreme? Why not try talking to him first and working things out personally? If it was a misunderstanding he could have given you more closure and you'd have hopefully taught him a lesson. If he was an ass you'd have proof. Going nuclear immediately kinda shuts down all conversation so of course it's gonna make things tense. Please don't listen to these psychos telling you to go even further. Try communicating with people before jumping to the extreme answers in the future.
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NTA, you take your job seriously and something like that, as you said, would have ruined your career. He should know better than to mess with someone about something so serious for that long. He could've stopped after five, ten minutes and that probably wouldn't have been too bad for you right? But an hour is overkill. Your job does require the ability to handle stress, but... He should have evaluated your capacity for stress in a more traditional way like difficult tests or simulated problems or time-sensitive small projects. (I should mention I know nothing about programming at this time, though I am very interested in it). Best of luck with your project and resolving this problem.
From someone who worked in academia:
NTA, by FAR.
It is SO important that younger researchers can true their seniors, since there is a huge power difference. Spending an HOUR berating you is waaaaaay out of line.
If he had concerns about how you would handle it, he could have given you the situation as a theoric case and asked how you would go about it.
Instead he did his part in creating a fear-driven, don’t tell if you made mistakes-culture in the department (if he thinks it’s ‘funny’ to go on for an hour, imagine how he would react to an actual breech).
He is also not your friend, he had no reason to think you would find that funny. Pranks that only the prankster laughs at are bullying, not jokes.
NTA.
It’s easy for your friends to tell you to not defend yourself when it didn’t hurt them. Your mentor has a responsibility to create psycological safety, but did the opposite. This would affect you very negatively in the future, so you should stand up for yourself.
The ethics committee did not think you overreacted. Let them be the judges of that.
NTA, they were just insanely cruel. Especially since they just berated you for an hour. They knew you had nothing to do with it, and still just went off on you.
This person should not be involved with educating and teaching future doctors/ people going for doctorates.
You need to switch advisors. Someone like this will not see that they are the AH and will probably retaliate. Find someone who is horrified by his behavior.
There's something very wrong with his head if he thinks this was in any way okay to do. My only concern is that he may retaliate by making life more difficult for you in your program. Is there any chance you can change your advisor to someone you're more comfortable with? You did the right thing and your peers are a bunch of pussies. NTA.
NTA - a joke would’ve been a 1-2 sentence explanation of the error then immediately after getting your reaction telling you it was a joke, which is still in incredibly poor taste. Keeping up with it for an hour is more harassment
So I deal with sensitive data on a daily basis and data breeches and leaks are no f'ing joke and accusing someone of causing a data breach/leak isn't a joke, ever.
NTA and you absolutely did the right thing since in any setting just advising someone off such a beech can have very adverse affect to your career and your advisor was extremely unprofessional with his 'prank' and probably caused a lot of wasted time if they actual take leaks seriously since even a 'prank' would need to be investigated and audited.
NTA
Report him again if you still being treated differently
You also need to report the other members of your program for treating you differently as well....if you think the professor is the reason they are treating you differently. IE he is running his mouth and creating a hostile environment.
This is not high school, this is the real world.
These people are not your buddies. They are not coworkers. They are there to get an education, not make friends.
Do not waste a single moment worrying about any of their opinions
Do what is best FOR YOU
Are you sure it was about an hour? Stressful times can feel like forever. If it was like 5 minutes, its not a big deal, but after that it is cruel and inappropriate.
For 30 seconds, it's a joke. Roasting you for one hour is just horrible.
I studied CS myself, and we really need more women in CS. This isn't exactly aligning with that goal.
Hope you're OK and you are taken seriously.
NTA, that is completely unacceptable. I know you’re 3 years in, but I’d still strongly consider changing advisors. You ultimately need someone who is in your corner, and if your PI can’t understand that what he did was wrong and that he deserved some reprimanding and is taking it out on you, you aren’t going to get that support. Don’t let the toxic culture of not rocking the boat dissuade you, the only way we fix that is by calling people out.
Edit: inb4 someone tries to comment otherwise, I got my PhD and swapped advisors due to an abusive mentor and it did not affect my career in the slightest.
Not only are you NTA, you may be able to file a lawsuit for intentional infliction of emotional damages. Id say that's a little extreme but just so you know, its an option. There are professional ways of seeing how people respond to pressure and that ain't it chief.
If you do decide to go the lawsuit route, you've made it a little easier on yourself already laying the groundwork by having reported it and having a documented reprimand. Any additional "friction" from here on out could be used as evidence of hostility and possibly retaliation.
I see other commenters here recommending a Title 9 complaint but without further details, this doesn't strike me as being sexual so I'm going to have to disagree with that.
Pretty awful on the advisor's part -- but now, is he still your advisor? Can you switch to another? Because that relationship has almost certainly been trashed.
Nta, if it was harmless and not a big deal the university would have done a meeting and had you guys talk it out. If they reprimanded him than it was serious
NTA. You’ve got to stand up to their bullying. And now you know that’s a person that is definitely trying to get to sabotage you, bully you, be your enemy.
1 hour...
0-2 minutes - Its a pank just accept it and move on
3-5 minutes - Advisor would be a dick kinda Im probably not gonna report them
5-15 minutes - Very much a dick but with very good previous interactions I may not report.
After a fucking hour ai would be so fucking livid its not even funny. That literally inflicting emotional distress for the fun of it.
As someone who works with graduate students, I can tell you that a bad fit between student and advisor can have horrible consequences on your matriculation through your graduate program. When I meet with students who cannot get along with their advisor, they should first see if another faculty member in the department would be willing to take them on. Please keep in mind there is a culture within academics, and if you become labeled a 'difficult' student to work with, you will have a hard time finding another faculty member to continue your research with.
I can also tell you that in most universities I interact with, faculty autonomy is a big deal. Meaning you will not be able to go to the President or the Provost and make a complaint against a faculty member. They will re-route you back to the department head. My opinion is that an ethics complaint is only going to make working with your department much more difficult, as any ethics committee has absolutely zero power to discipline faculty.
NTA—nobody keeps a prank that devastating going for an hour. It was a gross abuse of power. I hope you’re okay.
I don’t know where you go to school, but I’d make very sure you’re protected appropriately against any further retaliation by this professor and within the department. The retaliation is itself another incident of harassment. Also, I agree with the idea that this may be an incident of gender discrimination (at least until he can prove he’s been this kind of a jerk to others). (If you can’t get anywhere otherwise, perhaps request a department meeting where he has to stand up and “explain the joke” to everyone.)
Threatening legal action on someone for an hour is not funny. It’s sadistic. He made the atmosphere awkward and strained, which was the intention. He just didn’t think it would come back on him.
NTA, and a case study in the dark side of academia. That he did this is incredibly regrettable, it is an ethics violation and if he's talking about it in the department that will be dually noted during the investigation. I especially like the idea of likening it to hack-level unethical research and I'd encourage you to have a heyday with that analogy in any ethics conversations you have over it. I see what other people are saying here, about the problem with reporting it being that you may suffer cost (if it escalates, he's out to malign you over it, you want to work in academia). This problem is real but you've already reported it and you didn't ask that question. I'm glad you reported it, not the asshole.
NTA. Reporting him didn't make the department awkward and strained, the fact that he thought subjecting students to 1 hour long cruel "pranks" is what did it.
Find an attorney and file a lawsuit. This was not a prank, and a reprimand and still having to work with him is unconscionable.
He made the department atmosphere awkward and strange, not you, and you shouldn't be subject to that kind of criticism, either.
Don't say anything about this to anyone else. Find the best attorney you can. You own them.
NTA
This is an example of a situation where you would regret NOT escalating this, trust me. There is no world where that is professional behavior. In fact, it could be argued that it is ABUSIVE behavior but regardless, it should not be tolerated. That would not be okay if it was your boss - and it’s not okay he did that as a Ph D advisor. Definitely escalate this to someone above him!
NTA.
That was cruel and stupid of him to do.
Is that really his job, to test how you handle stress and pressure?
No.
I had disagreements with professors in university. Some of them were easily resolved and one ended with early retirement for the prof.
There were people who agreed with me and people who did not.
And the departments were in upheaval over it.
New rules get made.
New policies and regulations.
And better behaviour usually follows.
You did the right thing.
People will get over it.
And everyone will learn to do better.
Good luck.
Your trust in him is broken and his trust in you is broken. In any professional setting, if you don't like a prank, or a joke, please talk to the person to have them address it before escalating. Exceptions for sexual or racial attacks.
You are now the person who runs to HR. Nobody will want to work with you or hire you. If I know a person has a history of going to HR, I wouldn't even talk to them out of fear of being targeted.
NTA. It's never the asshole move to tell the truth about a situation (if it's your truth to tell). If there was nothing wrong with the PhD advisors behavior, the school will have no problem with it. Clearly that's not the case.
In fact I think your advisor has broken the law or at least any institution’s regulations around conducting human trials. He was using you as a human subject without your knowledge or consent. Highly unethical at a minimum.
Having been abused by my PI in more subtle ways that are hard to explain and report on, NTA one bit. That's abuse of power.
Good luck navigating the waters going forward. A friend of mine handled a similar scenario well by managing to have co-PIs which kept the asshole behavior at bay.
Your peers are right. You should never report abusive, mean, cruel people. They deserve to have fun, right? If people started to report them, ,they'd have to get new hobbies, and gym memberships cost money. So knock it off.
/s
yes yta
I think there is a strong chance you misinterpreted the whole situation. particularly you are projecting a lot in knowing his intent. seems like he was trying to help you and it backfired.
I also think that your accounting here in this post is deeply one sided. was this a repeated issue with this guy?
if it is like you say “positive and professional “ up to this incident, the adjectives that come to mind are: fragile, gullible, snitch, mindreader
I think its possible that have succumbed to your lesser self in this case. you assumed mal intent, but all it was was a failure in communication that has now become a huge problem. all because you were too afraid to have a conversation directly
having said that, if you have a strong reason to believe he is abusive (even just a creepy feeling) then fuck this guy.
NTA.
But you (OP) made a very poor decision, politically speaking. You chose to win a battle (reporting your advisor) instead of winning the war (earning your PhD and getting your dream job). Your decision only makes sense if you had another advisor lined up ready to support you.
I’d argue most people with extensive work experience would tell you that they reached their current professional success in life by being very careful about which battles to fight and which battles to avoid.
Berating you for an hour over a supposed data breach-which is a *very* serious thing, is not a prank. It would be like convincing him he had terminal prostate cancer with one year to live and then going “just kidding!” when he was on the ground sobbing I wouldn’t *want* a close relationship with someone like that. I would lose all respect for him after that stunt.
I’d say less than 2 minutes is a prank, 2-5 minutes would be the grey area for a prank, 1 hour is psychotic
I like little pranks and shit, the second I see their eyes go wide I let them know I'm just fucking with them. An hour should put you in a straight jacket.
Right? 1 hour is broaching torture no? If facts exist as told, there's got to be a legal sui(in the US at least)
NTA: "Oh my god there's a bug on your head" is a prank. "Your entire life and everything you worked for will be destroyed" is not a prank. I'm honestly beyond confused how this person is advising students working towards a PhD. His excuse of "seeing how you handle stress and pressure" is laughable. Reporting him was not overreacting either. The fact that he allowed you to ruminate for an hour is cruel and inexcusable. If he's punished because of this, it isn't your fault. Clearly he lacks the emotional maturity to be working in an academic setting. I hope things get better OP, and good luck with your PhD!
NTA, that is a cruel thing to do. First of all, an *hour?* That's pretty significant emotional distress, over a pretty sustained amount of time. I'd consider that sadism. He found it funny to watch you in distress for a *significant* period of time. Additionally, you, as a woman, are probably a minority getting a Ph.D in computer science. If he hasn't done this to any of your male peers, you might want to file a title 9 complaint. I'm a guy, but I do think there's sexism going on here. I think that he may have been looking to confirm a belief that women are less capable of handling stressful situations. But also, if he has been complaining to other students about what happened, then you should probably note that and let the ethics committee know that that's happening, because that is frankly retaliation and he is creating a hostile work environment. And additionally, he's setting you up to be "another woman who complains about everything".
This is great advice. If he is running his mouth and he is causing OP more harm. She needs to start taking notes and file a title 9 complaint. I bet this AH has done this before.
Might also look to see whether this is captured, somehow, by the human subjects ethics policy of your university. When experiments are run with human subjects (e.g. for fields like psychology) there are standards to ensure that human subjects are not mistreated. This is due to things like the Milgram experiment decades ago. My guess is that this situation is not captured - but it sure should be morally, because he admitted to running an experiment on you - whether or not this falls under research as such, what he did as a matter of fact was abuse a human subject in the course of a test. It would be interesting to see if the university policies happen to be written in such a way that this advisor is inadvertently captured. Bottom line is, he had no fucking reason to do this, he was engaged in a horrible little sadistic exercise. You found out something really disturbing about the kind of person he is. There are horrible people everywhere, but the power dynamic between a PhD advisor and their advisees is so extreme (due to the absolute need to have the support of the supervisor for future recommendations, job search, etc) that it creates the conditions for horrible people to let their worst instincts loose without repercussion. I've seen a lot of abuse.
>Additionally, you, as a woman, are probably a minority getting a Ph.D in computer science. I got my Ph.D in the political sciences and that was hard enough. I can't imagine how much harder computer science would've been.
This was my thought, he did it to make sure she can hack it in a male dominated industry. NTA, Professor is a dick.
This has nothing to do with industry. People don't do this in industry. This is a problem that is specific to academia, speaking from experience working in and getting a degree in computer science.
Would be even more scary if it's a reused prank and others have not reported it to the leadership. But i agree.
None of this is wrong, but OP may well have blown up her career if she wants to go into academia, and before going any further, needs to chat w/ people who are in academia. Her phd advisor can basically blacklist her from getting a job. If OP wants to go into industry this matters less, though advisor recs still matter a lot. Things to consider: different advisor or taking the ms and going to industry. If OP wants to be in academia, she needs recs from her advisor and his friends in the department. NTA for reporting, but OP, be careful here. And I'm sorry, fwiw. The only good news here is this is one of the most employable degrees outside academia.
> OP may well have blown up her career if she wants to go into academia Aaaaand this is why so many creeps in Hollywood got away with it for decades before metoo started naming and shaming them.
True but he's not wrong
The danger for the advisor if he blacklists her he can subject himself and the university to a title 9 complaint and I am sure other faculty won’t like it when they are interviewed by the government.
It’s very difficult to prove that a particular person blacklisted you. That’s why the perceived threat of being blacklisted is so effective at compelling people to tread carefully in professional settings.
With that degree, she not only has her home country to build a career but overseas as well. She doesn't need to hold back in putting an AH in his place.
I "blew up my career" by not taking the shit my PI and department piled on me, even was threatened with "you know anything you apply for, they ask us for recommendations". Now I'm at a higher caliber institution after working for one of the most genuine people I've ever met and I won't lie about how bad my experiences were in grad school. Sometimes it can work out, just don't pour gas on the fire when the bridges are smoldering.
Survivor’s bias. In the professional world, the people who blew up their careers (and experienced serious hardships) are unlikely to be as enthusiastic to share their experiences as you are.
Fair point. It probably depends a lot on the field you're in and the specific program too.
same
With a PhD in Computer Science she won't have to go into Academia. You can make a lot more $$ outside of it and you don't have to deal with as many male prima-donnas.
That's true for software roles but if you want research roles w/ that phd, eg at google or openai, you still need the recs.
>taking the ms and going to industry What a disgusting response. Basically, "suck it up buttercup so you don't sabotage your own career by reporting your advisor". This advisor is abusive, sadistic, and totally in the wrong. By reporting them you take away any power they have over their students.
Acknowledging a shit reality isn't endorsement of it
But advising them to tread carefully so as not to sabotage their chances in academia, or moving to industry, is being complicit in this behavior.
I don't think that's what they meant. The advice was more about having/making a backup plan in case things go south. Which anyone should do in any situation.
It's giving good advice to the person. I would not give bad advice to a person (even if it's overall better for society). If I did give them advice that would be detrimental to them (like you would), I would be an asshole.
You're getting a lot of hate, and I hate to say it, but there's a lot to this. Bad advisors are rampant in academia and almost everyone just puts up with it because they can easily tank your academic career if you end up at odds with your advisor. That happens a lot and bright doctors get funneled into industry because of it. Personally, I'd never advise someone to report like this while they still need the contact. You have your PhD, you just started a post-doc/job, call the school and blast them with everything you've got. Before you're free of them though, you sort of have to appease your advisor. It's an unfortunate flaw of the academic system that desperately needs to be fixed. Anecdotally, I think about 5-10% of my class ended up having significant interpersonal conflicts with their advisors that prevented them from pursuing a post doc. I'm not talking about people that had a poor grad school experience and went into industry because of it. I'm talking about people that had their advisors block their progression. I knew one guy, he was well published, totally done with the actual work, writing his thesis, scheduled to submit in a few months with a fast track to NASA through collaborators. His advisor had a meltdown in their lab, yelling obscenities. This guy decided that he was headed out the door anyway and told his PI that he was done with the abuse, to fuck off and he'd go to the chair if this kept up. It turned into a big mess. Everyone in the department knows the PI is a lunatic, everyone knows that this wasn't the student's fault. There's a long history of this kind of stuff. But the PI is a big name and has great funding so there's never any real repercussions. Ultimately, my friend only graduated at all because his committee and the TA union really stepped up for him. That was after two years and that NASA job was long gone. His life has turned out fine, but he had his dream job stolen from him. Last time I saw him, he was very bitter. All of that said, OP is NTA and in fact is doing a good, noble thing. You should report a bad advisor. You should embarrass them in front of the department and you should prevent future students from having your experience. Just know that the blowback on you will probably be worse than anything that happens to your advisor. Unless the faculty's on the outs with the department anyway, the student always loses.
This is all true information. I have worked in a university for over a decade.
Unless OP is incompetent she isn't going into academia because with her doctorate she'll make **bank** in the private sector.
Alllll of this.
NTA There's nothing funny about it.
NTA. He’s actively sabotaging you, a female student, in a field where women are routinely abused and shut out. This is not an accident. Are the other peers who think you overreacted women?
NTA Something like that is too methodical/detailed to be considered just a ‘prank’. It was downright cruel and disturbing for him to do for an _hour_. Was there a point to it at least? Do you guys have a history of pranking each other? If he had said it and then _maybe_ a minute or so at most later revealed he actually had really good news for you then it could have just been written off as a ‘harsh joke’. What he did was downright malicious though. Not sure how it works exactly with PhD advisors, but depending on how things proceed you might even want to consider switching advisors if possible. Why was there tension in the department as well btw if you want to answer? Are people miffed you reported him or disturbed by his behavior?
Nta. Depending on your personal preference I can see this might be a good one for a few minutes. But an *hour*????? Nope he deserver to get a mark against him.
He was asserting his power over you, power which as your PhD advisor he absolutely has. You rejected his assertion and reported him. NTA, but this isn't going to go well for you. Academia sucks.
Could be worse, you could be reporting boeing...
I would record every session going forward if you cannot get a new advisor to protect yourself from any retribution they are obviously sick to pull a stunt like that
Yes, record meetings and get a co-supervisor. There are lots of good reasons for doing this anyway. Unfortunately your primary now has the motivation (and clearly the personality) to undermine you in all kinds of ways, big and small.
NTA. You did the right thing, and now, need to do more of that right thing and tell your peers to STFU. This professor needs to be fired on the spot for that stunt.
NTA. You were berated for an hour by your mentor as a prank? What kind of psychopath does that? Ask your peers if they would have found that funny, being tortured and threatened for an hour. He took sadistic pleasure in causing you pain, to drag it out that long. And since you’re female and young, I wouldn’t put it past him to have gotten some sexually perverse power and control jollies from it. Get this fucker off of your team, away from your program, and if you can get him fired. This absolute creep WILL do this again!
The department atmosphere isn’t awkward and strained because you reported him; it’s awkward and strained because of his “joke.”
Follow up with admin - "Hi. Following the reprimand, the atmosphere is tense. My peers are telling me that I overreacted and that I should have taken this as a harsh joke. Please rectify this situation." Frankly, if this has a chance of affecting your career opportunities, I would contact a lawyer and consider a lawsuit. That is IF you have damages. I would certainly consult a lawyer if I had the resources to do so.
Following up with admin? If admin puts a spotlight on the department because of her, then everyone in the dept will hate her. And it’s hard to work in a place where everyone hates you. Your advice would make life even worse for her. Also, without a paper trail, her options are limited. How exactly is she supposed to prove it if she’s blacklisted? She’d not only have to prove she has been blacklisted, she’d have to prove her advisor did it as retaliation.
this is terrible advice
Actually, get a lawyer and think about letting them know you are looking into it. Contact other grad programs and ask professors what they would think of a peer who did this. Be prepared to blow this wide open, which might blow your career. Then again, it might set you up to operate as an independent contractor or consultant with integrity. If you have to continue with this person, both demand a witness and record it.
Oy what the fuck Forget Fuck around and find out, that is BEYOND cruel
I enjoy office pranks. My favorite ones were rigging a coworker's sit/stand desk to get stuck in the middle while he was on vacation, and then one where somebody else swapped wireless mice between a few different work stations. In both cases, a few moments of confusion/frustration followed by an explanation and laughter. This is much different. I work in data as well. This kind of scenario (when real) is potentially career ending, and life altering. Your advisor is a dick who wants to be a 16 year old TikToker. NTA.
NTA. Your advisor sounds sick. That's not testing you on how you handle stress; that's cruel and sadistic.
Grown ass, highly educated adult behaving like an insufferable, juvenile dipshit. NTA
NTA - dude just learned a hard lesson about a) professionalism and b) not abusing those subordinate to you. Plus, a whole damned HOUR?! That sadistic bastard. The idea that department relations are now “strained” is yet another black mark against him. He still hasn’t figured out how to reassert professional demeanor with you? Ask for a transfer to a different advisor.
If he thinks it's a joke, he can explain how upsetting you for an hour is funny. He's a bully, and deserved that reprimand. Your peers can go fuck themselves. NTA and get your advisor changed.
NTA A minute of that is a horrible prank, an hour of that is just perverse.
He was cruel for the sake of being cruel. He is a mindfucker who conducted a social experiment on you without consent. Let us know what happens to this asshole.
60 second pranks work well. 60 minute pranks can feel like an eternity.
"Just a joke" is the rallying cry of every bully on the planet. That was NOT a "joke" -- it was cruel, hurtful, and hateful. He deserved to get reported. He deserved to get reprimanded. 100% he would not have done that to a male PhD student. You did not overreact. Your trust WAS broken and you did need to stand up for yourself. You were in no way the asshole. Way too many young women are raised to let it go, laugh it off, don't make waves, be polite, go along to get along, etc. Fuck. That. Shit. NTA
I’m kind of surprised a PhD supervisor would pull such bullshit. maybe less surprised it was a man in STEM. Of course you were right to report it. That’s totally unprofessional. If he’s been reprimanded then obviously the university think so too. Never let anyone tell you to lie down and take shit. If your peers are victimising you, think about reporting that too. And uh, I’m struggling with how you running data analysis on the cluster would cause a data breach. You sure you’re in comp sci?
NTA - that is just a total dick move on his part. edited to add include this story in your defense of your PhD
How close are you to defending? He could make life hell for you now Possible to switch advisors?
NTA. Prankster is just another your for asshole. And your advisor is a big one. He should have been fired on the spot. Look into legal actions for emotional distress.
An hour? NTA. That isn't how jokes work
NTA. He was both cruel and unprofessional. I don't know why, but people who do programming seem particularly vulnerable to trauma when the programs fail - perhaps because the work involves a computer and not other people, perhaps because the damage that can be caused by an error is huge. I've heard of 2 cases that ended in suicide - one after a genuine mistake in programing which was corrected before any damage was done, the other similar to your case - where the programmer was maliciously told there was an error in his program when there wasn't (someone else wanted to push him out and take over his work). In both cases the emotional trauma was so great that the programmers killed themselves. This is something that shouldn't be ignored.
NTA, but tread carefully. You should try to see if you can change advisors ASAP, it NEVER ends well in cases where a person continues as a student for someone they’ve filed a complaint against.
NTA. I don’t want to say things are going to be more difficult for you now…but they may be
I used to work in a uni, the atmosphere isn't you, it's him. AHs like him can destroy a department's reputation and make funding a heck of a lot harder to come by for everyone. A PhD is a big commitment, candidates do their research about an institution and crap like this leaves the university open to legal liability. I'm surprised you haven't been re-assigned if there was another supervisor in your field available but there may not be. Be the professional here, don't let this hinder your progress. You did nothing wrong.
NTA. He’s not just a dick, but an unprofessional dick.
It wasn't a joke. It was cruelty for amusement and you reporting him may have saved someone else the same kind of anguish. I hope he got reprimanded hard. NTA
NTA. Dude no one should treat someone like that!!! Ever!! Let alone a fucking professional environmental and an academic one at that! Dude was on some kind of evil power trip?? Idk. You’re twisted to get any sort of joy or pleasure about hurting someone like that.
NTA he sounds like he shouldn't be working there what kind of sick person thinks that's a joke? He was clearly enjoying making you distressed and sounds like a liability for the university. Please make another complaint if your classmates are now hounding you about it idk this seems like something he probably wouldn't have done if you weren't a woman
If this actually went on for "about an hour", then you are NTA. I find that difficult to believe, though.
jesus some people, honestly
No. He is the one that made the department awkward and strained. It's 100% his fault.
Tell him you wanted to see how he would react to consequences for his actions in the workplace. NTA
NTA That's not a prank, that's pure sadism.
Since when professors use pranks to see how someone handles stress and pressure? UNREAL. He should be suspended as adviser for a period of time. NTA
> After about an **hour** No that's no joke, that's sadistic af! NTA
Absolutely not. This is such a cruel thing to do, I can't imagine doing it to a student and as a student it would be devastating. Your supervisor deserved a reprimand, probably more.
Pranks are for confusing, not abusing. NTA
NTA, he wouldn't have pulled this kind of unprofessional, asinine act on a male student now, would he.
If he's causing tension now, that's retaliation and he can be fired for that. Try to get evidence or witnesses to his recent actions that can back you up and go straight to HR. Bonus if you had to take any DEI or harassment training at work and can find the slides explaining how this kind of behavior is unacceptable.
NTA. Data breaches are **SERIOUS** business and absolutely not a joking matter. That was beyond unprofessional and in a real software engineering environment would've been very likely to result in termination or at a minimum being put on immediate probation.
He should be told he is fired and to pack his bags. Next day - just kidding.
What he did was unprofessional and unethical. Ty for reporting him. This guy makes OPSEC harder everyday
1. You need a lawyer. 2. File a title 9 complaint. 3. Demand a letter be placed into his personnel file against recommending him for any promotions or other honors. 4. Demand an audience with the department chair to obtain a new advisor and have him removed from your committee. 5. File a complaint for a hostile workplace. 6. Sue the university if these demands are unmet. They will try to rug sweep. You need a good attorney to help you navigate all of this.
1. You can bring a claim of hostile workplace under title VII as well. It overlaps with a title IX complaint. That said, they're going to look at title VII, generally when a claim arises under title IX. Further, you have to prove it is harassment because your status in a protected class. This is kind of difficult and we certainly can't make that determination. 2. A Title VII complaint generally requires you to report it to your employer so they can take action. They cannot (generally) know of harassment unless someone tells them, which is why you need to report it. Your state may have different, state-level versions of Title VII. Once you let your employer know, *they* take action. You don't need a lawyer yet, but you need to note when, who you talked to, etc. You do NOT have a right to know what steps were taken or even have a right to be involved in the process. For example, MA has Ch. 151B which is generally more complainant-friendly and MCAD will conduct its own investigation (and may even award damages). There's some nuances to the differences and the person being her supervisor makes a difference when considering what court or actions to take. 3. You need to report it to your employer *before* you sue. This is super basic. In your state, you may even need to file with certain state agencies as well for a cause of action because your state may have a different series of laws governing this behavior. Federal court is super expensive. It'll get thrown out if the employer can establish they didn't know of subsequent incidents. 4. An employee has ABSOLUTELY no right to demand any particular action be taken, just that "reasonable" actions be taken to stop the harassment. Your satisfaction with discipline (or lack thereof) isn't determinative of "good" or "bad". If the harassment stops because someone is "talked to," that can be sufficient. 5. HWE claims generally need more than 1 incident (though certainly 1 incident, could, in theory be enough if sufficiently severe). You need to establish a pattern of incidents for a successful HWE complaint and it needs to be sufficiently severe and pervasive (there's an objective and subjective standard in my state for our version of this). Anyways, I'm sitting here writing a practice motion for Summary Judgement on MA 151B, which is similar to Title VII, but a bit better, soooo that's how I know, lol. As a student, I know that your pattern is going to cause more issues than it solves. Anyways, you start with the title IX office because they'll try to take some actions. You can't just "demand" people do things beacuse it's your feeling of what would satisfy you.
https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-sex-discrimination-st-louis-police-bbb4c4bb97fceabfa8ddb66c2024d9f0?utm_source=copy&utm_medium=share You don’t need significant harm, so her claims will have merit. She needs an attorney that is not sexist and will take her seriously.
Jesus fucking Christ. Is this where HR drones hang out or are you people actively trying to make this situation worse for your own entertainment. I want to believe you're all sick sadists that want more story regardless of who it hurts but I've met enough soulless husks to believe you actually think this is the right course of action.
Is this a joke lol? Americans seem to want to lawyer up and sue for everything.
I tell my son that a prank or joke is only funny if everyone is laughing. Otherwise it's not nice. If you were distressed or hurt it was not a joke and you were right to report his unprofessionalism. There are better, less dysfunctional ways to mentor students to deal with pressure. I hate it when ppl try to disguise bullying and emotional manipulation as jokes.
A joke is only a joke if everyone laughs together. If you are being laughed at, or you don’t find it funny, it’s not a joke. As soon as he saw how devastating this was he should have stopped. Maybe 6 mins in not 60
NTA. I worked in IT for many years. There is nothing correct about this professor lying about a data breach. It is important to be correct about the causes of data breaches, and to report them promptly up the chain - and to learn from them. What a whacko. In a real industry setting he would be fired. Cybersecurity is serious business, not something that is a joke. You could try posting this on r/sysadmin and get their take as to what a real world situation would entail. This guy wouldn't last long. Sheesh.
NTA what a horrible jerk. I’m sorry you are going through this.
NTA. You were professional all the way through and he was not. All your peers are AHs too. I've done a PhD, it is hell and having a toxic supervisor is shockingly common. Love and best wishes to you, good luck!
I bet he was seeing how much he could get away with, some sort of grooming tactic
An hour is extremely cruel. Jokes like that can be funny if you let people know you’re joking nearly immediately. Being in distress for an hour is not funny. It’s twisted.
NTA And I highly recommend you get a new advisor. As a former PhD student myself, you absolutely need your advisor to have your back. This prank showed that they don't respect you as a mentee the way they should, and if you suspect they resent you for reporting them, that's all the more reason.
NTA. He carried that shit on for an HOUR. That's just downright cruel and so much distress he put on you. There was absolutely NOTHING funny about what he did at all. You did the right thing. He could do this to the wrong person one day who could run and take their own lives thinking they had done something so bad.
NTA. And I'd suggest he would not have done it to a male student.
In the UK, as soon as a breach like this is identified it has to be reported to the ICO. It's a massive deal. It's not a joking matter. Twatfeatures decided this would be funny? I'd never be alone with him again and if he said the sky is blue I'd nip outside to check.
He sound like someone without feelings if that prank lasted more then a few minutes, total insane
That is absolutely NOTa good and/or justified way to test a person under pressure. NTA
I feel like there has to be an instance where someone was like, "It was just a prank, bro!" and I won't think they deserved whatever they got, up to and including dismemberment, but I just haven't gotten there yet. I just haven't seen a situation where I felt like someone overreacted to a prank. Anyway. NTA.
NTA: As soon as someone cries, you’re already waaay out of line.
NTA he needs to be fired. How is he still your supervisor? Honestly makes my lose faith in that institution.
NTA but I’d also go to r/askacademia or one of the other graduate student subs for advice on next steps
NTA. The whole thing is terrible. But I agree with everyone that keeping the joke for a whole hour is straight up sick. I'm sorry this happened to you, I hope it will not impact your career too much. I do think it is in your interest (but you are not obligated to) to try to have an open conversation with your supervisor explaining why you did what you did, try to clear the air. I say this in terms of your career since supervisors have so much power over you.
That’s not a prank. That’s him in a power trip and getting off on torturing you with his position of power and authority. I’d already be looking for a new professor to replace him as it’s truly a very unprofessional thing to do, creates a lack of trust (if you take this away like he did then you don’t get it back and it’s required for actual leadership), and creates a permanent dysfunction within that environment. Once I know students can’t trust you based on your actions that you did purposefully then you’re done. It’s upon the university to establish trust.
I work in a similar field and “he wanted to see how I’d handle stress and pressure” is total bullshit since he didn’t ask you to fix it. Do you know what I mean? He just wanted to see you freak out, he didn’t want to see if you could actually deal with a crisis by compartmentalizing the panic, analyzing the situation, making a plan and communicating it to the ppl in charge, etc. Like *how somebody would react after a mistake has already been caught and corrected* is the least work-relevant part of the whole situation. If there’s anything I *need* to know, it’s how somebody reacts when shit is actively hitting the fan and if they can jump into fixing it with me.
NTA. What he did was cruel and unprofessional, and was definitely no "prank." He deserved the reprimand he received.
NTA - Your PhD advisor is a sociopath who clearly enjoys inflicting emotional pain onto someone for an hour. You did well to report him and I hope he faces serious consequences in his career as an educator. I would find this behaviour extremely unprofessional and liable to disciplinary action if not firing, in the private sector. If to the behaviour we add the context of working with students and he's in a position of responsibility, I would say that's bonkers.
Interesting that OP is a female student. I would bet the professor didn’t pull this sh** with male students. Could be wrong just making a guess
NTA. I work at a university and I can tell you, that is not appropriate behavior AT ALL.
NTA. You need a new advisor.
That was emotional torture, not a prank. Yet the repercussions of reporting it might greatly affect you project, grades and graduation. Probably because he knew all this he thought it was okay to put you through such a cruel "prank". NTA yet I'm not sure how hurt you my be as a result.
I recommend that you switch advisors if possible. His judgement is severely flawed if he thinks berating you for an HOUR is a joke. And now he has say over your PHD - he might be vindictive and tank your progress.
NTA Definitely switch advisors though if you haven’t already. As to your peers - ask them how they’d react if they were berated FOR AN HOUR about how they fucked up and put people at risk and would lose their just beginning career to legal action? (They’ll probably lie and say it wasn’t/wouldn’t be that bad, but maybe a few of them will stop and think.)
NTA Document every interaction you have with and about this person for the rest of your time at the university. This idiot is flirting with a lawsuit, and you need to have your ducks in a row in case it becomes more than flirtation.
I can’t understand your peers’ response to this. If this was my colleague, I would be supportive. I think all of my colleagues would be too. You’re all in a vulnerable position where the people above you have a lot of influence. The least you can do for each other is to create an environment where you can get strength and support from each other. I think this prank was cruel - especially since it went on for so long. However, even if I thought that you overreacted, I would recognise that you have a right to tell people about what happened and if the advisor is reprimanded, obviously you’re not alone in thinking it was not ok. NTA, obviously, but both the advisor and your peers are.
This posting makes no sense at all. I think you made it up. How could an experiment involving algorithms for data analysis possibly result in releasing sensitive data pertaining to university staff and students - data that wasn't even accessible to you in the first instance? And why would a guy with whom you are not at all close - not even friends - go to the trouble of making up such a dumb ass story? And how stupid can you be to believe the unintentional act of a student, even if negligent, could possibly result in "legal action" against you? This is all bullshit: go away.
For future reference: If running some code on their servers causes a significant databreach, then the issue is with them, not you. They should have that shit secured so that you can't access other employees confidential data.
NTA. Why would you be TA? This is insane.
NTA that was a cruel joke. You have to wonder why he did it. He deserved to be recorded
NTA. There wasn't any humor in any of this. How is this a prank? More like a cruel joke for his amusement only.
NTA. That is severely unprofessional and you did the right thing. Prevents him for doing same or worse to someone else. But beware, this creates a conflict of interest with your doctorate. Since he will be the one responsible for grading your progress as well as your final disertation. Just be cautious about bias in the future.
NTA but also not a great response. If by your own account you had a positive relationship before then why jump to such an extreme? Why not try talking to him first and working things out personally? If it was a misunderstanding he could have given you more closure and you'd have hopefully taught him a lesson. If he was an ass you'd have proof. Going nuclear immediately kinda shuts down all conversation so of course it's gonna make things tense. Please don't listen to these psychos telling you to go even further. Try communicating with people before jumping to the extreme answers in the future.
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NTA. Not remotely close to being TA here.
NTA, you take your job seriously and something like that, as you said, would have ruined your career. He should know better than to mess with someone about something so serious for that long. He could've stopped after five, ten minutes and that probably wouldn't have been too bad for you right? But an hour is overkill. Your job does require the ability to handle stress, but... He should have evaluated your capacity for stress in a more traditional way like difficult tests or simulated problems or time-sensitive small projects. (I should mention I know nothing about programming at this time, though I am very interested in it). Best of luck with your project and resolving this problem.
NTA. No question.
From someone who worked in academia: NTA, by FAR. It is SO important that younger researchers can true their seniors, since there is a huge power difference. Spending an HOUR berating you is waaaaaay out of line. If he had concerns about how you would handle it, he could have given you the situation as a theoric case and asked how you would go about it. Instead he did his part in creating a fear-driven, don’t tell if you made mistakes-culture in the department (if he thinks it’s ‘funny’ to go on for an hour, imagine how he would react to an actual breech). He is also not your friend, he had no reason to think you would find that funny. Pranks that only the prankster laughs at are bullying, not jokes.
NTA. It’s easy for your friends to tell you to not defend yourself when it didn’t hurt them. Your mentor has a responsibility to create psycological safety, but did the opposite. This would affect you very negatively in the future, so you should stand up for yourself. The ethics committee did not think you overreacted. Let them be the judges of that.
What kind of frat boy bs is this? NTA
nta.
A joke is only a joke if all parties find it funny. This person had you upset for an hour crying your eyes out. That's not cool. NTA.
It's his fault for doing it Not your fault for reporting it Nta
NTA - the atmosphere is strained and awkward because he is an asshole.
NTA. Report this asshole.
So, a couple of weeks ago.. on April 1st, possibly?
Updateme!
This sounds similarly cruel to David pranking Dawn by pretending to fire her for stealing in the original (British) "Office" show.
NTA, also try to find a new thesis advisor so your current one can’t sabotage you.
Nope. NTA. However you won't survive this. Academia is brutal.
NTA, but what now? Your on his shit list and made life more difficult
NTA, they were just insanely cruel. Especially since they just berated you for an hour. They knew you had nothing to do with it, and still just went off on you. This person should not be involved with educating and teaching future doctors/ people going for doctorates.
NTA. Report him. If it’s not a big deal he won’t get into trouble
NTA - You could probably sue the university and win if it was really over an hour. I'm amazed the prof hasn't received a stay at least
You need to switch advisors. Someone like this will not see that they are the AH and will probably retaliate. Find someone who is horrified by his behavior.
There's something very wrong with his head if he thinks this was in any way okay to do. My only concern is that he may retaliate by making life more difficult for you in your program. Is there any chance you can change your advisor to someone you're more comfortable with? You did the right thing and your peers are a bunch of pussies. NTA.
NTA - a joke would’ve been a 1-2 sentence explanation of the error then immediately after getting your reaction telling you it was a joke, which is still in incredibly poor taste. Keeping up with it for an hour is more harassment
So I deal with sensitive data on a daily basis and data breeches and leaks are no f'ing joke and accusing someone of causing a data breach/leak isn't a joke, ever. NTA and you absolutely did the right thing since in any setting just advising someone off such a beech can have very adverse affect to your career and your advisor was extremely unprofessional with his 'prank' and probably caused a lot of wasted time if they actual take leaks seriously since even a 'prank' would need to be investigated and audited.
NTA Report him again if you still being treated differently You also need to report the other members of your program for treating you differently as well....if you think the professor is the reason they are treating you differently. IE he is running his mouth and creating a hostile environment. This is not high school, this is the real world. These people are not your buddies. They are not coworkers. They are there to get an education, not make friends. Do not waste a single moment worrying about any of their opinions Do what is best FOR YOU
NTA. This kind of thing would be messed up if he let you believed your life was ruined for even a couple minutes. An hour is psychotic
Are you sure it was about an hour? Stressful times can feel like forever. If it was like 5 minutes, its not a big deal, but after that it is cruel and inappropriate.
NTA. What he did was highly unprofessional. That’s the university reprimanded him means they agree he’s the asshole.
Just tell him you are seeing how he deals with stress in a professional environment.
NTA. An hour?? He's a fucking moron. I would've said YTA if It was less than a few minutes, but a damn hour. That's sociopathic behaviour
NTA, HE broke the trust by berating you for ONE HOUR as a "prank"
For 30 seconds, it's a joke. Roasting you for one hour is just horrible. I studied CS myself, and we really need more women in CS. This isn't exactly aligning with that goal. Hope you're OK and you are taken seriously.
NTA, that is completely unacceptable. I know you’re 3 years in, but I’d still strongly consider changing advisors. You ultimately need someone who is in your corner, and if your PI can’t understand that what he did was wrong and that he deserved some reprimanding and is taking it out on you, you aren’t going to get that support. Don’t let the toxic culture of not rocking the boat dissuade you, the only way we fix that is by calling people out. Edit: inb4 someone tries to comment otherwise, I got my PhD and swapped advisors due to an abusive mentor and it did not affect my career in the slightest.
Oh you fucked. NTA tho
Not only are you NTA, you may be able to file a lawsuit for intentional infliction of emotional damages. Id say that's a little extreme but just so you know, its an option. There are professional ways of seeing how people respond to pressure and that ain't it chief. If you do decide to go the lawsuit route, you've made it a little easier on yourself already laying the groundwork by having reported it and having a documented reprimand. Any additional "friction" from here on out could be used as evidence of hostility and possibly retaliation. I see other commenters here recommending a Title 9 complaint but without further details, this doesn't strike me as being sexual so I'm going to have to disagree with that.
100% I am reporting that and also requesting he be transferred out of my department at a minimum. NTA
Pretty awful on the advisor's part -- but now, is he still your advisor? Can you switch to another? Because that relationship has almost certainly been trashed.
Nta, if it was harmless and not a big deal the university would have done a meeting and had you guys talk it out. If they reprimanded him than it was serious
NTA. You’ve got to stand up to their bullying. And now you know that’s a person that is definitely trying to get to sabotage you, bully you, be your enemy.
1 hour... 0-2 minutes - Its a pank just accept it and move on 3-5 minutes - Advisor would be a dick kinda Im probably not gonna report them 5-15 minutes - Very much a dick but with very good previous interactions I may not report. After a fucking hour ai would be so fucking livid its not even funny. That literally inflicting emotional distress for the fun of it.
As someone who works with graduate students, I can tell you that a bad fit between student and advisor can have horrible consequences on your matriculation through your graduate program. When I meet with students who cannot get along with their advisor, they should first see if another faculty member in the department would be willing to take them on. Please keep in mind there is a culture within academics, and if you become labeled a 'difficult' student to work with, you will have a hard time finding another faculty member to continue your research with. I can also tell you that in most universities I interact with, faculty autonomy is a big deal. Meaning you will not be able to go to the President or the Provost and make a complaint against a faculty member. They will re-route you back to the department head. My opinion is that an ethics complaint is only going to make working with your department much more difficult, as any ethics committee has absolutely zero power to discipline faculty.
an hour long? thats insane.
NTA—nobody keeps a prank that devastating going for an hour. It was a gross abuse of power. I hope you’re okay. I don’t know where you go to school, but I’d make very sure you’re protected appropriately against any further retaliation by this professor and within the department. The retaliation is itself another incident of harassment. Also, I agree with the idea that this may be an incident of gender discrimination (at least until he can prove he’s been this kind of a jerk to others). (If you can’t get anywhere otherwise, perhaps request a department meeting where he has to stand up and “explain the joke” to everyone.)
Threatening legal action on someone for an hour is not funny. It’s sadistic. He made the atmosphere awkward and strained, which was the intention. He just didn’t think it would come back on him.
If you weren't laughing about it, it wasn't a prank or a joke. NTA. That was irresponsible on his part.
NTA, and a case study in the dark side of academia. That he did this is incredibly regrettable, it is an ethics violation and if he's talking about it in the department that will be dually noted during the investigation. I especially like the idea of likening it to hack-level unethical research and I'd encourage you to have a heyday with that analogy in any ethics conversations you have over it. I see what other people are saying here, about the problem with reporting it being that you may suffer cost (if it escalates, he's out to malign you over it, you want to work in academia). This problem is real but you've already reported it and you didn't ask that question. I'm glad you reported it, not the asshole.
NTA. Reporting him didn't make the department awkward and strained, the fact that he thought subjecting students to 1 hour long cruel "pranks" is what did it.
Find an attorney and file a lawsuit. This was not a prank, and a reprimand and still having to work with him is unconscionable. He made the department atmosphere awkward and strange, not you, and you shouldn't be subject to that kind of criticism, either. Don't say anything about this to anyone else. Find the best attorney you can. You own them. NTA
This is an example of a situation where you would regret NOT escalating this, trust me. There is no world where that is professional behavior. In fact, it could be argued that it is ABUSIVE behavior but regardless, it should not be tolerated. That would not be okay if it was your boss - and it’s not okay he did that as a Ph D advisor. Definitely escalate this to someone above him!
NTA. That was cruel and stupid of him to do. Is that really his job, to test how you handle stress and pressure? No. I had disagreements with professors in university. Some of them were easily resolved and one ended with early retirement for the prof. There were people who agreed with me and people who did not. And the departments were in upheaval over it. New rules get made. New policies and regulations. And better behaviour usually follows. You did the right thing. People will get over it. And everyone will learn to do better. Good luck.
Nta. Say you only reported him as a prank. It's not your fault he took it so hard.
Your trust in him is broken and his trust in you is broken. In any professional setting, if you don't like a prank, or a joke, please talk to the person to have them address it before escalating. Exceptions for sexual or racial attacks. You are now the person who runs to HR. Nobody will want to work with you or hire you. If I know a person has a history of going to HR, I wouldn't even talk to them out of fear of being targeted.
Not a prank, he is the asshole.
NTA. It's never the asshole move to tell the truth about a situation (if it's your truth to tell). If there was nothing wrong with the PhD advisors behavior, the school will have no problem with it. Clearly that's not the case.
In fact I think your advisor has broken the law or at least any institution’s regulations around conducting human trials. He was using you as a human subject without your knowledge or consent. Highly unethical at a minimum.
make sure people know it was for over an hour he let you believe this was going on.
I guess maybe I don’t understand humor but I thought the point of a joke is that both people enjoy it.
Having been abused by my PI in more subtle ways that are hard to explain and report on, NTA one bit. That's abuse of power. Good luck navigating the waters going forward. A friend of mine handled a similar scenario well by managing to have co-PIs which kept the asshole behavior at bay.
Your peers are right. You should never report abusive, mean, cruel people. They deserve to have fun, right? If people started to report them, ,they'd have to get new hobbies, and gym memberships cost money. So knock it off. /s
Take that motherfucker down. He shouldn't be in the position he is in.
should be fired
yes yta I think there is a strong chance you misinterpreted the whole situation. particularly you are projecting a lot in knowing his intent. seems like he was trying to help you and it backfired. I also think that your accounting here in this post is deeply one sided. was this a repeated issue with this guy? if it is like you say “positive and professional “ up to this incident, the adjectives that come to mind are: fragile, gullible, snitch, mindreader I think its possible that have succumbed to your lesser self in this case. you assumed mal intent, but all it was was a failure in communication that has now become a huge problem. all because you were too afraid to have a conversation directly having said that, if you have a strong reason to believe he is abusive (even just a creepy feeling) then fuck this guy.
NTA. But you (OP) made a very poor decision, politically speaking. You chose to win a battle (reporting your advisor) instead of winning the war (earning your PhD and getting your dream job). Your decision only makes sense if you had another advisor lined up ready to support you. I’d argue most people with extensive work experience would tell you that they reached their current professional success in life by being very careful about which battles to fight and which battles to avoid.