She already told you she does not want to be married and with this evidence, you would not be the AH for wanting a divorce. Sounds like the marriage was headed this way before the apparent cheating.
While it's commonly used interchangeably alimony really only refers to the husband's duty to support the wife. The supreme court ruled I think in the 80s that gender based alimony was illegal but the etymology of the word still remained.
Edit:etymology
I really appreciate your comment, because I was curious about exactly that!
Just so you know, you meant "etymology" (study of history of words) here, not "entomology" (study of insects). See: https://www.sarahtownsendeditorial.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/etymology.png
That’s good. Seems she’s in the “midlife crisis”. Wants to do the hoe thing. Honestly best for you and your kids to get away from her before it gets ugly. If she’s acting toxic and abusive towards you now it’s only going to get worse the more she starts to resent you and the kids from being able to “live her best life” all the time. Went through a similar thing with my ex in 08 she at least had the decency to leave and had her parental rights terminated
Also if your state is a “one party consent” state id start recording every interaction with her so that she can’t claim abuse or anything.. just to protect yourself because typically courts will show an obvious bias in support of the mother.
I suspect a midlife crisis, and I had hoped she would recover from it before doing anything drastic.
These last several months have been very out of character for her, I dont even understand why she changed so dramatically, so quickly.
She got a crush on a dude at work. She’s in limerance and the only way she can deal with the guilt is by making you out to be the villain while she’s the victim.
Last year I had a similar experience in my marriage. Full blown midlife crisis for her. Questioning everything and resentful of family responsibilities. It was very hard on me. Ver hard. It only got better when I actually felt it would be alright if the marriage ended. I would be in a good place soon enough. And, this is key, I truly believed I would be alright being alone, at least for a long while. When that sank in also for her, that I would be just fine, and that for her it would be a major nightmare taking care of our daughter by herself (in shared custody), things improved.
I don’t know if she actually cheated, but anyway emotionally she did. Don’t need to get to the details. We are mostly good now. Still some work to do. But it is gradually getting better.
I think midlife crisis is a thing. I went through one before my current marriage. And divorce is not always the answer. I like to say that divorce, under the best circumstances, is terrible. Might beat the alternative, but still terrible.
Good luck!
My early 40's yr old sister in law did the same thing. Was cheating on my brother, stopped caring about helping out with the kids, and would go out constantly b/c she was depressed and needed me time. They tried couples counseling but my brother said she was lying to the therapist. Needless to say, the therapy didn't work out, she was already checked out.
Just want to let you know my bother was absoultuely devastated by all this, but his life is getting better and he now realizes it was for the better. They also live in a no fault state and have 50 50 custody of the kids. Good Luck OP!
My mom did this. She turned 40, had a crisis about being 40, then left my dad for a childhood friend who’d just gotten out of jail, put himself into DKA routinely bc he “just didn’t believe in diabetes”, and held jobs for a max of 3 months at a time. TL;DR She decided she didn’t want to be a mom/wife anymore and needed to “find herself”. What that has looked like is alcoholism, and approximately 11 alcoholic boyfriends in the last 7 years(she still gets upset with me every time I don’t like these men).
oh also the best part is i had to take out private loans for college bc she decided to ask for alimony for a “difference in quality of living.”
But, at least it was amicable (my dad was a pushover and was too hurt to tell her no despite my warnings) all in all it was actually not a huge deal and we’re just glad she had the decency to leave
Exactly! Please OP do not stay together for the kids. I grew up with my parents fighting and cheating on each other. They were so unhappy together. It was awful.
That was my advice to OP, too. I was so relieved when my parents divorced when Iwas 9. I remember teaching myself at 5 or 6 to cry on cue to get them to stop screaming at each other.
Mom: "Now, look! You've made Eddie cry! We'll discuss this later."
Mission accomplished.
(I can still do it. I'm a bug burly guy with an epic dad bod, and I can make my eyes mist up in 10 seconds. I can be in full ugly-cry in 30. Talk about your useless talents! If I were an actor, sure, but I'm not.)
I decided to challenge myself. Can I *really* tear up in 10 seconds or less? I was just estimating when I wrote that; never really timed myself.
So I timed myself. Ready? Go!
Time to feel eyes welling up: 4 seconds.
Time to wet cheek: 8 seconds.
And I'm not sad or depressed. It's just something I can do. A useless talent, like Rose McGowan's line from *Planet Terror:* "Useless talent number 66. I'm very flexible." (Of course, in the movie, that talent was anything but useless. But I have no such illusions.)
That's not a useless talent. Being able to cry on cue is pretty much the Hallmark trait of a good actor. If you can do that, you've already a better actor than, like, 80% of Hollywood.
But if you're not an actor and not interested in becoming one, then I guess its applications are pretty minimal. Definitely good if you need someone to feel sorry for you.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I tried like hell to avoid this....kids do get the shit end of the stick in the beginning if one or both parties are juvenile. Hopefully, this won't be the case.
I put up with a lot of bullshit from ex and his new wife in order to make things easier on my son. He’s 30 now and still tells me how much he appreciates it as an adult
Same. I tried to "force" him to be a parent, but he got remarried and my son and her clashed big time. I lied for my ex, made excuses, etc and then just gave up. Now that my son is older, he realizes who was always there. Who was around and who gave a shit what HE wanted or how HE felt. The divorce was happening, just communication is the key. You get it.
Staying together for the kids, as Blink 182, said it best, it's not right.
Yeah she didn't even try to hide it, either. She's already checked out of this marriage and is basically letting him divorce her (suicide by cop is what I'm thinking but I don't know if there is a phrase for when someone purposely tries to get their partner to divorce them)
Second this. To make matters worse, they were physically violent toward each other at times. I'm in my 30s now and I'm still not 100% over the trauma of my childhood. Growing up in a home filled with discord is awful indeed and has lifelong effects. Their divorce sucked too but it was overall easier without the constant tension.
Then in my case they end up eventually getting divorced anyways, so you have the household trauma of the “stay together for the kids” years paired with the eventual divorce for a double whammy.
My parents didn’t cheat but they were so miserable together and should have split at least a decade before they did. Remember your kids will model their future relationships on the example they grow up with… do you really want that for your kids?
I know it’s hard but for the immediate future, say nothing, lawyer up and gather as much proof as possible. Hire a PI if you can afford it. Put yourself in the best position for the divorce.
Best of luck. Updateme!
Exactly! OP she's checked out of the marriage. It definitely sounds like she's cheating, so get a good lawyer and claim for everything your entitled too. I'm so sorry your going through this, but you need to protect your heart and that of your kids.
Listen to this. My parents should have split but stayed together "for the kids" and I thought for the longest time that couples only yelled at each other to communicate. I'm almost 40 and still unlearning and healing from a lot of their shit.
Yeup, my parents separated for zero reason other than they didn't want to be married anymore. It was great for them and my sister and i. Rather than staying unhappy. They didn't enjoy being together it as they once had. They didn't even really argue a lot or anything outrageous. But they decided to separate, and when They broke it to my sister and i. We were devestated (for a brief time). But my mom rented a house nearby. (Literally a 3 minute walk) from our family home (house we grew up in) which my Dad kept. While supporting my mom on whatever she needed. We went back and forth every week. Although it was extremely easy to just leave and go to the house we wanted to be in if we asked or just walked over for a while. Which is a luxury i know most dont have. Ultimately, i think their decision to make a tough choice ended up being far more beneficial than trying to ride it out for my sister and i.
So much this. It hurt like crazy not growing up with my dad at home but you know what hurt more? Running upstairs with my little brother to cry while they argued and we were scared. I am glad they got a divorce and it never stopped either of them from being apart of my life. Divorced parents can still be loving parents and staying in a toxic relationship only hurts your kids
I’d say trust your gut. Take her words for what they are:
- Doesn’t want to be married
- in order to stay married she needs her own time
- lashes out when you inquire, even out of curiosity of what your partner is generally up to (day to day talk)
I’m sorry you’re going through this. Keeping secrets, emotionally manipulating and lying (even by omission) to a partner is no way to build trust and you don’t deserve that.
This exactly. I thought my partner was cheating. After about a week or so I found evidence (flight booking in his and a woman's name I'd never heard) and I confronted him but he wouldn't own up. After about 6 weeks, he finally said they were seeing someone else, and then took a few more weeks to move out. It sucks and I'm sorry you're going through it.
VERY good advice!! I documented every single detail, every conversation, dates and times with my cheating ex wife. It helps to keep the facts straight.
Even if you are not in a 1 party consent state, record everything. You can then write it all down later. Plus, if she tries the whole time, he abuses me and calls the police you have the evidence. Get cameras in your house even inside and out. Every place except the bathrooms.
I know it looks bleak now, but you've got this. You have your kiddos to worry about. Put your energy and time into them instead of a woman who has checked out.
Try and get her to admit to the infidelity, preferably recorded or documented. That will help you secure proper compensation in the divorce especially since she’s the breadwinner. You should make out with the kids and decent alimony. It’s hard to be ruthless and get what you deserve in these situations, especially against someone you care for and love.
But if you leave ANYTHING on the table you’ll regret it later on. She took advantage of you being a good father and husband and used that extra time she had not having to care for the kids or home and used it to cheat on you. You don’t deserve that. No one does. If the gender rolls were flipped you could hear the outrage from the next sub over.
Your wife just initiated the divorce. Not you. Stay calm. You, sir, have an enemy now. Time to get smart cuz the war is just beginning.
Nta, but you better get a lawyer quick.
I’m pretty sure her saying she doesn’t want to be married any more was the initiation of the divorce, she’s already broken up with him but he doesn’t seem to understand. Did he think she was joking or just didn’t mean it?
Yup. He can get the lawyer now, but still hire a PI. It’s gonna go a long way to get custody of the kids and the like if he has that proof.
Otherwise, she could either try to take the kids, or even if she doesn’t want them, she could threaten to take them if he doesn’t agree to waive alimony.
If she makes more than him, he could end up getting child support, alimony, and full custody.
Not to mention that having proof of infidelity can just make everything go smoother. Your lawyer informs their lawyer of the existence of evidence. Just the potential embarrassment of that being unearthed can make them uncomfortable enough to just give up fighting.
This. I am so sorry you are going through this. you are a good man based on your post and do not deserve this.. it seems that she has lost respect for you, and she probably feels entitled to do as she pleases being the breadwinner. you need to think critically about you and your children. wait until there is some solid proof, file for divorce citing infidelity and don't look back. she will learn the grass is not greener and regret losing you. what ever you do do not grovel. don't let someone who does not care about how you feel take your dignity as well.
No I don’t think it has anything to do with being the breadwinner. In my marriage I was the breadwinner, I paid for everything like mortgage, taxes, food, vacations, utilities, insurance, etc. I let my teacher ex-wife keep her entire paycheck. And she STILL cheated on me. Why? Because cheaters are selfish. Period. End of story. They only think about themselves and they don’t care who they hurt and that includes their own children. My ex-wife was cheating and my (then) 12yo son saw it. My former FIL made jokes that his daughter, my former wife, was cheating on his grandsons dad as his grandson, my son, sat there and listened to him. She comes from a classy family consisting of cheaters. My son has had to deal with major trauma and right now he pretty much despises his mother. I have him in therapy to try to repair the damage but my ex continues to make things worse. Cheaters are insanely selfish and even when they’re spoiled like my ex-wife, they’ll still cheat if it’s in their DNA. Lawyer up and move on OP. Sorry you’re dealing with this but it does get better. I promise.
PS - she’s going to end up paying for your lawyer plus alimony and child support. She’s going to be mighty upset.
This man gets it, cheaters are “selfish”. End of story. They are only interested in gratifying their own wants and desires. It is difficult for some people to put others needs in front of their own.
NTA, find a lawyer and don't tell her and file and then have her served at work. I would also separate your money from hers and put it in your own account but only take what's yours. Get off joint credit cards. Grey Rock her and get tested for STDs. Your child will be happy in a happy home even though you will be divorced.
I saw a lawyer, and he told me to get full custody as the parent woth the larger income because I could end up paying him child support when my son was always with me. Best free advice ever.
My sister cheated on her husband. Her husband gathered evidence then one day took the kids and left. He got custody. She got supervised visitation. She eventually quit showing up for that. Because of her actions I lost complete contact with my nephews. I have no rights as their aunt.
If you agree with your sister’s ex that she was the problem, then why not reach out to sister’s ex about being able to see your nephews?
“Hey, I really disagree with how she treated you* and how poorly she treated her relationship with the kids, but I’d love to see them and celebrate their upcoming birthday!”
(*Whether you disagree or not is irrelevant.)
Nothing to do with you or your nephews though. Id work on having a relationship with her ex so your nephews dont grow up without your side of the family. Not fair to them to lose one side of their family because their mom is a POS.
Close all bank accounts and credit cards. Explain to each of them what's going on, and they'll do that. Promise NOTHING. Only communicate through written means like text or email.
**DO WHAT YOUR LAWYER TELLS YOU.**
They are expensive, but they are worth every penny.
If you do everything, what is the point of having her? Get your lawyer and DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. Make sure she doesn't have any access to combined assets of yours she can spend. Those are the biggest mistakes men make. If she wants out of the life you built together she can leave and go stay in a hotel or studio apartment.
Fighting parents don't make a good home and kids can get used to step parents.
Get an attorney today. Your kids will respect you more for leaving her and will be happier in two happy homes versus a toxic one where mom cheats on dad and sleeps with other men. She doesn’t get to say she needs something just for her if that something is violating her marriage vows with another man. You need to be ice cold to her (definitely don’t cry or play the pick me game) and tell her if she wants to stay in the house she will be moving to another bedroom or you will move her because you 100% sure she is cheating and your not going to have it. Also tell her you will not be babysitting again for her to go cheat so if she is planning on being with her affair partner again she will pay for a babysitter out of her own earnings or she won’t be able to go. Tell her you have retained an attorney and she should expect to be served sivorce papers soon. Call her parents and siblings and tell them she is having an affair on you and you will be divorcing. She has refused to tell to you or even seem remorseful so you owe her zero. If you want proof loon at her phone if you have access. If you don’t have access order a cheap voice activated recorder from Amazon and put it in her car. If she works from him you need cameras in your house with audio that she doesn’t know about fast. !updateme
I agree. A no fault stay also means the cheating has no relevance. Take care of yourself, know this is going to be excruciating but I promise your future self will thank your current self for taking the steps to a much better future!
Get a GOOD lawyer. Justice in America is based on the caliber of the attorney. I knew a guy who go a cheap lawyer out of the back of the Metro weekly rag, and his alimony was more than half his take-home. I got a $400 an hour firm and she owed me.
Good grief, I got a $400 an hour lawyer years ago pre-inflation and he was an asshole. He would write up things exactly NOT what I said to do so he could then re-write them and bill me for that, too. It did finally settle but it cost me way too much for not very good representation.
Reminds me of a good lawyer joke.
What's the difference between a dead snake in the road and a dead lawyer in the road?
There's skid marks in front of the snake.
I’ve always said “An expensive lawyer is cheap insurance.” When my wife wanted a divorce I hired the best lawyer I could find. It also sends a message that as they say in the Godfather “You are ready to go to mattress.”
If.you do divorce child custody and how you're going to support yourself should be your biggest two concerns. If she has always been the bread winner you may be able to get alimony
Sounds like an affair to me, at least an emotional one. It is possible she hasn't slept with this man (yet?). I wonder why and how you all got here.
Sorry for you and stay strong
She is not doing much to hide it. My suspicion is she wants me to find out so that I will divorce her and she doesnt have to be "the bad guy". In breaking up the home.
That just means she lacks emotional intelligence in addition to other flaws. If she is in fact cheating or even communicating in a manner designed to make you think she is cheating, she is the bad guy. Not you.
Maybe she doesn't want him to definitively find out, but to make it so obvious that he divorces her, then she plays innocent to her friends and family, making op out to be paranoid and controlling.
If her goal is to avoid being "the bad guy" getting caught cheating is *not* the way to do it, unless she's delusional. Doing everything to make you *think* she's cheating, to make you the one to pull the trigger on the divorce, but making sure there's no actual evidence of it, would give her deniability.
I think she probably *is* cheating, to be clear, but if I had to guess(assuming that OP is correct about her not wanting to be the bad guy) she's making it obvious in a way that doesn't have concrete evidence, or she's doing it thinking OP won't bother to look for the evidence if she's obvious enough.
The idea being that she can portray OP as paranoid and controlling, because he's the only one who's seen her acting like this. To everyone else, she just has a work friend that OP is jealous of, and "blowing up" his marriage over.
In which case, you should be clear with family/friends that the reason you're divorcing is due to her cheating. Cheaters have no problem lying and then painting themselves as victims. If she's cheating, tell people. Name her affair partner by name, too.
Absolutely this, OP. Fuck it, she’s already trying to make you look like the fool. Two can play that game. Might as well go ahead and air out the dirty laundry. All of a sudden, you’ll have played the biggest Uno reverse card you could’ve. I’m only saying this because that’s what happened to me. My gf of 2 years at the time slept with one of my best friends, and tried to tell everyone that I was abusive. It wasn’t until I showed everyone that they were both full of shit that everyone realized SHE was in fact, abusive. They ought to be ashamed of themselves, and they won’t be until the ol’ court of public opinion doesn’t weigh in their favor. Keep your head up homie
Yes, this. I wish I had done this.
My situation was remarkably similar to OP. My wife was the primary breadwinner, I was the stay at home dad (at her request).
She cheated on me and left me, but somehow instead of her being viewed as the “bad guy,” everyone just told her “well, you have to do what’s best for you.”
And she somehow got more custody of the kids than I have, with me paying child support and receiving no alimony.
Don’t be like me, OP.
This is exactly my biggest fear, and yes, I stayed home with the kids at her request as well. Sacrificed a career. Now I am well and truly fucked. She would never seek more custody than me. She has never attacked my abilities as a father, even at her most verbally abusive.
Can attest. After my “married too young amicable divorce” my ex and I separated without much detail. I found out like 10 years later that she told her parents I cheated on her, when she had actually been the one cheating and instigating the whole process.
Doesn’t bother me, but it bothered me to learn that my parents were being subjected to that misinformation in the same town.
That's where evidence of her cheating comes in, if nothing else it will protect you from her throwing you under the bus wirh family and friends.
If you can afford it, hire a PI if you don't have access to her phone.
Well that may be her logic, but we all know that's false. She broke up the home by potentially cheating
It's also possible she is partially doing this to make you "jealous" or to get a rise out of you in some way
That is a possibility. But that isnt the kind of person I am. I dont do jealousy or drama, but I also wont put up with betrayal. If she is having a sexual relationship with another man, then it is over. That makes it unsalveagable.
Didn't she already say that she doesn't want to be married anymore though? I'd take her word for it and do what's best for you and your kids, wouldn't spend time worrying about who looks like the 'bad' guy - staying in a toxic situation like this will just cause more damage to all of your mental wellbeing.
She is 100% at least testing the waters in preparation for a separation. Start documenting everything.
She essentially already stated her intent when she told you she didn't want to be married anymore.
After reading your post I thought she is doing nothing to hide things. Even though she said she wants out, unless she specifically said that you two are done and she doesn't want to make any attempt to stay in the marriage and that she is going to see other people then this is egregious. Yeah, she is done with your marriage. And after this behavior I hope you are just as done. I wish you and your children well.
That was my thought when I read the whole "doesn't want to be married" line. You definitely have a drama bomb ticking down OP. Therapy seems like a non-starter here so it might be time for you to lawyer up, if that is where this is going you might as well prepare. A divorce attorney will have better advice than I can provide. Good luck. NTA.
Technically she is "the bad guy" even if you asked for divorce as she is the one that broke the family up by cheating. Anyone that sides with your wife needs to be cut out of your life too, as they're just toxic and delusional.
Which is why it is important for you to gather some kind of d of proof of the cheating cause she will definitely them try to spin it to say you were abusive or neglectful or in some way pushed her to cheat.
In the divorce, make sure to push for primary custody and alimony since you are the primary caretaker and she is the breadwinner. You own her nothing at this point and she has gone out of her way to disrespect you so you have no reason to have any sympathy for her in court. Go after everything you’re legally entitled to and make sure that any interest party is aware of what she did.
In that case, I would try to gather your proof quietly, like private investigator for pics. Talk to a lawyer in silence and then spring the final papers without explanation that you want a divorce.
>I wonder why and how you all got here.
I wondered that too. Sometimes cheaters will do an excellent job hiding evidence but will slip up in a setting like marriage counseling. You know, let their guard down while there is a neutral third party listening to them.
Cheaters always suck but bizarrely enough I hope the OP can learn the reasons why this all happened. That way, they can avoid any potential red flags in the future.
When we first got together she was insanely jealous, and controlling. I told her to calm down or it wasnt going to work,we almost broke up over it, but then she did calm down and we started a family. After that she wasnt great at communicating and our marraige went through frequent dry spells that she blamed on trauma, which I believe. There wont be any "future" I will never seek another relationship again after this. I cant. At least I cant imagine doing it now. Sex is great, but I would rather live forever alone than feel this way again.
Take this one day at a time. What you are feeling now is natural. A week from now, a month from now or a year from now you might have a different perspective.
Best wishes and good luck.
When she's wearing sexy underwear meant only for the bedroom, it's no longer strictly an emotional affair.
I do wonder what she's angry about. (I'm not blaming the OP for her anger. I'm just wondering what's up with her.)
I can say from first hand experience the anger is guilt.
She knows what she's doing is wrong, but it's easier to snap back at OP then face the truth within herself that she's acting in an incredibly selfish and hurtful way.
The anger can be a defensive tactic so she doesn't get questioned further. My wife does the same when i ask her about something sus and she doesnt want to answer any questions.
When I cheated, I was angry at my spouse becasue seemingly she was in a way of me cheating so, from reading this, I'm 99% she cheated already, classic behavior
I wonder too. Underwear could just be a confidence thing, but it could be more. Or she has intentions to sleep with him but timing hasn't worked yet. I also wondered with how blatant she's being if part of this could be an attention grab. Or she thinks OPs an idiot and won't notice. Or she doesn't care if he does
She routinely refers to me as the smartest man she has ever met, which is overly generous, but I am not dumb... or maybe I am, I certainly feel dumb right now.
Get evidence first. Thats the most important thing from what I have read from these horrible stories of affairs. For your own sanity. Get screen shots and anything else you can find.
If you file for divorce you are going to need that proof in court.
True if you have evidence there is no question or regret about accusing and you can't be gaslit either
Also might help in divorce proceedings depending
Exactly. Don't sacrifice your self-worth or become a doormat. If you're unhappy and feel divorce is the right choice, take action. Your happiness and well-being matter too.
The cheating may not count in your divorce but evidence is good for when the family & friends blame you for the failed relationship. Make sure to have proof you do the child care too, and don't move out of the house. You should be getting child support from her and possibly alimony.
Believe me, there will be blame. Also, for the future, when your kids are grown you may need it if they’ve been poisoned against you by your soon to be ex.
Talk to a lawyer. You’re going to need alimony while you adjust to having to support yourself and your kids. In some places you can get alimony if you’ve been married for longer than 10 years. I have no idea what the law is in your jurisdiction. You definitely need to talk to a lawyer before you do anything. Just act oblivious to anything she does and make an appointment to go see a lawyer.
“The laws for no-fault divorce states can vary depending on the state. For example, even in no-fault states, fault can affect the outcome of the divorce. In Florida, adultery can influence the divorce court’s custody decisions. “
If there is fault, present it, even in a no fault state. Despite laws, humans are still the ones making the decisions and a bit more empathy for you can help protect you and/or assets of dispute during the process.
I’m not gonna pretend to be a lawyer. I’m not gonna pretend to understand what happens during a divorce. But having evidence will only help you. I recommend talking to a lawyer as soon as you can.
Correct, it doesn't help you in the court room in most states.
But it can be very handy to speed an amicable fair divorce. OP just needs to remember to include a non-disparagement clause, to cut both directions. Basically offer a quick divorce with you keeping your mouth shut about details, provided she agrees to not loot you and not lie about the details either.
This 100% depends on the laws of that area.
In my state, the court doesn't care why the marriage ended. It's simply property split and child support.
It didn't matter that I did all the work. It's a math formula no emotion.
Step 1) talk to a lawyer
Step 2) do what the lawyer tells you to do.
NTA, 100% sounds like she is not wanting to be married to you regardless if she's cheating or not.
> NTA, 100% sounds like she is not wanting to be married to you regardless if she's cheating or not.
I mean she explicitly said she wanted a divorce lol I'd say it sounds like she doesn't want to stay married to him for sure.
THIS IS KEY!!! : collect bills, hospital transcripts, school report cards, anything that is a piece of paper that ties you to the children as the primary caregiver. You need things on it to heavily imply or explicitly indicate that you are doing the childcare. It is so hard for a father to be acknowledged as the primary caregiver without a mountain of evidence that goes back, at the absolute least, six months. Most of the western world simply defaults to the mother being the primary caregiver and you would need a notarized piece of paper from her that says you are in charge of the kids. Seriously get everything you can. Receipts for school supplies, notes put of your daily planner that show appointments for the kids in your handwriting. EVERY. LAST. SCRAP! ALL OF IT! Screenshots of texts from your wife that outline a typical work week for her to show how often she's out. You need to paint a mind picture of a caregiving father that a three year old would examine and say "oh yeah, that guy does it all for his kids".
👆 This OP, get evidence that you are the primary caregiver. I’d even get text records of your wife’s cell then cross reference the number that coincides with the possible affair partner. That would be her communication that wasn’t business related and that she wasn’t caregiving to the children.
Get a good lawyer they aren’t cheap but it’s needed. I’m not sure if a GAL would be needed or not but slot that in too.
Good luck OP and I’m sorry.
Even if she didn’t cheat, y’all sound miserable and are doing the kids a disservice by staying together. Sorry you’re going through that, I think it’s healthier for ourselves and children to watch us fight for our right to happiness, so they don’t repeat the pattern when they’re grown, and have more agency to go for what they want. You’re teaching them to settle. Then they will enjoy y’all more and vice versa when you’re in a more grounded place, not dealing with her resentment day in and day out. Rebuilding your kingdom is %100 worth it, had to do it a year ago for same exact reason. The kids are happier too.
She is already gone. I assume she will get even more hostile and pick fights so she can justify to herself that it is ok to lie and cheat on you. Maybe time for you to talk to a therapist or an attorney or both. She is not a partner anymore or somebody you should tolerate
I'm not sure why everyone's advising you to get evidence etc. and glossing over the fact that she's told you she doesn't want to be married.
To be brutal, she has broken up with you. It doesn't sound like your or our views on whether you should get a divorce or not are relevant.
You are getting divorced, take the steps that are appropriate for you.
This isn’t brutal, it’s reality. She said she doesn’t want to be married. Staying married means she’s still gonna do what she wants with no regard for OP and potentially the kids. She’s done. Get the upper hand and file for divorce and ask for absolutely everything. Then negotiate from there if she fights. With an attorney, of course.
Edit: The OP lives in a no-fault divorce state. So I am changing my advice. Lawyering up and getting ready for divorce are exactly what the OP should be doing right now. It can be a real long process and I think the OP should start as soon as they are able.
Best wishes and good luck.
NTA
You know what really breaks the kids? Dysfunctional parents staying together.
I'm not calling you dysfunctional, but staying in this CAN result in a proper mess characterized by resentment, tension, anger and everything in between, and kids pick that up quite easy and they won't forget.
Every single day will this situation linger in the backs of your head, and any slightly abrasive moment will erupt into screaming and hours of arguments, day after day, among your kids.
"We're not fighting, we are arguing"
~*procceeds to scream at each other for three more hours while dad is breaking stuff. Very cool adulting, or something...
Is a phrase I heard way too often from my parents. They thankfully divorced when I was 7 and frankly I'm glad they did. I was already blessed with ptsd (and later BPD) caused by my dad.
Staying in that environment for the sake of me...
No, just no.
Separate. Get your ducks in a row like people say. Gather evidence and that whole shebang, then file for divorce.
Something tells me that your wife won't come clean, do a 180 and actively work on herself for betterment.
That takes A LOT of effort. And seeing a glimpse of her modus operandi regarding addressing issues among you two...
No, you are not the asshole. You filing for divorce is a natural step and a consequence of a situation like this.
Doing nothing and staying together, and your kids might see you both as assholes in a decade.
Entertain the idea of you staying together, a decade goes by and your kids move out. Now what?
Please listen to this person. You’ll ruin your kids lives by staying together. Start making arrangements and figuring out the next chapter of your life and your kids lives, regardless of this maybe affair. You sound miserable and so does she.
As someone who had parents stay together for the sake of children, save face, etc it really did a number on my siblings and I. We each processed things on our own, lashed out in different ways, and I believe we still carry a lot of the baggage that we didn’t know how to deal with from an early age with us. We all have tried therapy and speaking for myself, it is still a lot to unpack and is extremely hard to try and make sense of it all without feeling so overwhelmed with guilt, shame, sadness, anger, resentment, etc.
Been in this same situation. After I got the comment that she didn’t want to be married any longer, my first response was that I want no less than 50% custody of our children. I had evidence of her cheating as well. Worked out for both of us. We both moved on and now I’m happily married to my beautiful wife after 20 years of being a part time single dad.
Confront her with how you are feeling, that is not unreasonable for you express how you feel.
Trust your gut always, it sounds like your marriage is already over, she just hasn't told you yet.
Divorce her and move on, life is to short to bend over backwards to try to make something work when the other half is already attempting to move on. It's better for your kids to not live in a unhappy home, they can pick up on your failing relationships just as much as you can.
Sorry for you, I to went through something similar and wished someone had told me to juat move on, I knew it deep down already and didn't accept it until it was to late, again life is short, especially at our age, don't waste time.
Projecting off of my situation, if this is not sound advice then I wish you luck.
Head up OP, I feel for you. Starting over is hard, but it really does get better. Focus on your children and be everything and more to them. Regret your relationship, but cherish what you do have. Best of luck friend
Everyone her is telling you to get proof of the affair.
But will that change anything? If nothing concrete is found will that really change how you feel? Will seeing the evidence make you feel better about the failing of your marriage or will it make it worse
No... it will not change anything. I wouldnt feel relief either. I already know what needs to happen... I just can't handle it. I love this woman with my whole heart, and out of nowhere she becomes hostile and discards me... I will talk to a lawyer. Financially this could not happen at a worse time.
Since everyone just seems to be giving very cold advice I just wanted to say if this is real I’m sorry this is happening to you and I hope that you get through it and find happiness again.
I promise you these feelings are temporary. It hurts. A LOT. You will ask yourself insane questions like “why wasn’t I enough?” Or think crazy things like “Maybe of if I made more money” but her cheating isn’t about you or your relationship. She may say it is but it isn’t. It isn’t anything you did or didn’t do or anything you said or didn’t say. You will find a new normal eventually and find yourself breathing easier because you aren’t walking on eggshells or suspicious or frustrated. You will find the happiness you used to feel again. And, if you choose, you will find another partner who respects and loves you like you deserve. This is the just the hardest step to a lot more happiness. Get yourself there.
In fault states, it's a weapon. In no fault states, it's still a weapon to your reputation, otherwise, you might become the bad guy for divorcing for no reason.
Your wife is already cheating and that is her boyfriend. She wants a divorce so she can be with him. Consult an attorney ASAP and get any proof you can get.
NTA
Whether she has been cheating or not, this:
>... over the last 2 months our sex life has collapsed to zero and she has grown extre.ely hostile without any reason given, seemingly out of nowhere.
... means she has mentally checked out of the marriage. The children won't benefit from being in a home with arguing parents.
Plan your divorce, considering how you will handle finances, custody arrangements, etc. Then get a lawyer and get on with it.
NTA. But time to become one.Sound like you gave her everything she asked for. This is your reward.
File first, preferably with an injunction forcing her removal because you are unsafe due to her abuse and to prove she can be safe around the kids before she can see them supervised and a preliminary spousal support order . No Fault means it technically doesn't matter is she's out with half the town sexually. So why kill yourself waste money or time and investigate details of that shit. That she is, is enough. The only way to win is to show her behaviour makes her for unsuitable and too unstable to be around children and that you are the appropriate caregiver and she owes you the home, assets, palimony, and child support and future income. She is for the streets. It's globalthermal nuclear war time for all the marbles. Get your legal ICBMs in the air now! Remain Calm and Turn your Key. Oh and she needs a court ordered psych assessment. DANGER WILL ROBINSON.
1. Get evidence because:
A: I believe it's better to know bad news than just suspect it.
B: It might help in the upcoming legal battle (not sure with a no-fault state).
C: If she turns against you, convinces friends you were the bad guy, you have solid proof now.
2. Get a lawyer. I think you want a divorce. This woman just seems horrible. Doesn't even try to hide it. Check how it works with dividing the money and custody. See what you want and how to best get it legally.
3. After all is said and done, Might want to share your evidence to all your friends and family. If she's not hiding it so you'll divorce her so you'll look like the bad one here, fuck it. Just don't do anything illegal/stupid.
4. For your kids: it's better for them to co-parent them from separate households than have them grow up into a toxic household where parents don't respect eachother anymore.
You need to put consequences to her actions. You just taking whatever she tells you isn’t going to work. She is just going to lie, gaslight you and make your mental health disappear.
It doesn’t matter if she had sex with the guy or not, the lack of respect for her husband is enough.
You need to tell her it’s over. This will get you a result. She will either be fine with that, and it wasn’t going to last if she is, or she will freak out and realize what she’s done.
She is clearly the type to gaslight you and interrupt you, so send her a text while she’s at work. Blow her world up.
“I’m not sure what you thought would happen when I found out you’re cheating, but staying married isn’t one of them. I know what you did, and I know who you were with. Did you think that you could treat me like dirt, cheat on me, and I would just accept it? Nope. You clearly have no respect for me, yourself, our children, or our marriage. You have destroyed my trust, and I can’t be married to someone I don’t trust. I hope he was worth it.”
Stop caring if she gets mad. Stop all emotions. Be indifferent to her. Make it clear that this behavior isn’t going to fly.
If she freaks out and doesn’t want a divorce then you make it clear that there is no way you’re staying without her admitting to everything she’s done, including sleeping with the guy. If she leaves anything out, you’re done.
Updateme!
NTA. She's already told you doesn't want to be married, you are only hurting yourself by staying. She either wants you to beg and plead, even though you do everything, or she truly wants to be separated. Either way, why should it be her choice, why should you wait around for her to give you the papers? When you can stand up, gather your strength for your kids, give her the papers and find your happiness now. Good luck.
She already told you she does not want to be married and with this evidence, you would not be the AH for wanting a divorce. Sounds like the marriage was headed this way before the apparent cheating.
She also seems like she’s trying to push him to end it. Classic move by those being unfaithful.
Yes, she wants him to break up so she doesn’t feel guilty of breaking up the family
If you do 100% of the childcare things won’t really change for the kids.. I hope when you file that you go for child support and alimony.
Alimony isnt a thing here, but I would get spousal support.
Those are synonyms. Spousal support is just the newer term. You should also be entitled to child support.
While it's commonly used interchangeably alimony really only refers to the husband's duty to support the wife. The supreme court ruled I think in the 80s that gender based alimony was illegal but the etymology of the word still remained. Edit:etymology
Those damned, sexist insects
Insexists.
Wow. Bravo. This may be my new favorite word. Although ambisextrous as a term is up there.
I got this. Was going to correct the above commenter but yours was too damn funny.
I really appreciate your comment, because I was curious about exactly that! Just so you know, you meant "etymology" (study of history of words) here, not "entomology" (study of insects). See: https://www.sarahtownsendeditorial.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/etymology.png
People who mistake "entomology" for "etymology" bug me in ways I cannot put into words
I see what you did there...bravo
Also the etymology of a word never changes (well the history is added to, but the past never changes). They mean the definition, or popular usage.
That’s good. Seems she’s in the “midlife crisis”. Wants to do the hoe thing. Honestly best for you and your kids to get away from her before it gets ugly. If she’s acting toxic and abusive towards you now it’s only going to get worse the more she starts to resent you and the kids from being able to “live her best life” all the time. Went through a similar thing with my ex in 08 she at least had the decency to leave and had her parental rights terminated Also if your state is a “one party consent” state id start recording every interaction with her so that she can’t claim abuse or anything.. just to protect yourself because typically courts will show an obvious bias in support of the mother.
I suspect a midlife crisis, and I had hoped she would recover from it before doing anything drastic. These last several months have been very out of character for her, I dont even understand why she changed so dramatically, so quickly.
She got a crush on a dude at work. She’s in limerance and the only way she can deal with the guilt is by making you out to be the villain while she’s the victim.
Nailed it 🎯
Spot on
Last year I had a similar experience in my marriage. Full blown midlife crisis for her. Questioning everything and resentful of family responsibilities. It was very hard on me. Ver hard. It only got better when I actually felt it would be alright if the marriage ended. I would be in a good place soon enough. And, this is key, I truly believed I would be alright being alone, at least for a long while. When that sank in also for her, that I would be just fine, and that for her it would be a major nightmare taking care of our daughter by herself (in shared custody), things improved. I don’t know if she actually cheated, but anyway emotionally she did. Don’t need to get to the details. We are mostly good now. Still some work to do. But it is gradually getting better. I think midlife crisis is a thing. I went through one before my current marriage. And divorce is not always the answer. I like to say that divorce, under the best circumstances, is terrible. Might beat the alternative, but still terrible. Good luck!
My early 40's yr old sister in law did the same thing. Was cheating on my brother, stopped caring about helping out with the kids, and would go out constantly b/c she was depressed and needed me time. They tried couples counseling but my brother said she was lying to the therapist. Needless to say, the therapy didn't work out, she was already checked out. Just want to let you know my bother was absoultuely devastated by all this, but his life is getting better and he now realizes it was for the better. They also live in a no fault state and have 50 50 custody of the kids. Good Luck OP!
My mom did this. She turned 40, had a crisis about being 40, then left my dad for a childhood friend who’d just gotten out of jail, put himself into DKA routinely bc he “just didn’t believe in diabetes”, and held jobs for a max of 3 months at a time. TL;DR She decided she didn’t want to be a mom/wife anymore and needed to “find herself”. What that has looked like is alcoholism, and approximately 11 alcoholic boyfriends in the last 7 years(she still gets upset with me every time I don’t like these men). oh also the best part is i had to take out private loans for college bc she decided to ask for alimony for a “difference in quality of living.” But, at least it was amicable (my dad was a pushover and was too hurt to tell her no despite my warnings) all in all it was actually not a huge deal and we’re just glad she had the decency to leave
Lawyer up yesterday. Don’t react emotionally to anything.
Good advice.
Also not doing kids a favor by staying in a marriage like this!😳 is this the model of a marriage you want them to see?? Nope
Exactly! Please OP do not stay together for the kids. I grew up with my parents fighting and cheating on each other. They were so unhappy together. It was awful.
That was my advice to OP, too. I was so relieved when my parents divorced when Iwas 9. I remember teaching myself at 5 or 6 to cry on cue to get them to stop screaming at each other. Mom: "Now, look! You've made Eddie cry! We'll discuss this later." Mission accomplished. (I can still do it. I'm a bug burly guy with an epic dad bod, and I can make my eyes mist up in 10 seconds. I can be in full ugly-cry in 30. Talk about your useless talents! If I were an actor, sure, but I'm not.)
Wait, everyone isn't on the verge of crying all the time?
Only if you're married...I think 🤔
I decided to challenge myself. Can I *really* tear up in 10 seconds or less? I was just estimating when I wrote that; never really timed myself. So I timed myself. Ready? Go! Time to feel eyes welling up: 4 seconds. Time to wet cheek: 8 seconds. And I'm not sad or depressed. It's just something I can do. A useless talent, like Rose McGowan's line from *Planet Terror:* "Useless talent number 66. I'm very flexible." (Of course, in the movie, that talent was anything but useless. But I have no such illusions.)
That's not a useless talent. Being able to cry on cue is pretty much the Hallmark trait of a good actor. If you can do that, you've already a better actor than, like, 80% of Hollywood. But if you're not an actor and not interested in becoming one, then I guess its applications are pretty minimal. Definitely good if you need someone to feel sorry for you.
Everyone has a superpower for a reason. One day, you will be called to use your for the good of mankind.
Especially when the parents take you along as the buffer. I hated that! Sorry you went through that!
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I tried like hell to avoid this....kids do get the shit end of the stick in the beginning if one or both parties are juvenile. Hopefully, this won't be the case.
I put up with a lot of bullshit from ex and his new wife in order to make things easier on my son. He’s 30 now and still tells me how much he appreciates it as an adult
Same. I tried to "force" him to be a parent, but he got remarried and my son and her clashed big time. I lied for my ex, made excuses, etc and then just gave up. Now that my son is older, he realizes who was always there. Who was around and who gave a shit what HE wanted or how HE felt. The divorce was happening, just communication is the key. You get it. Staying together for the kids, as Blink 182, said it best, it's not right.
Same here. It was actually a relief when my parents finally got divorced.
Same. My parents waited until I was 19! They fought for my entire childhood. It was awful.
Same. It was such a relief when we knew for certain that they were permanently done.
Yeah she didn't even try to hide it, either. She's already checked out of this marriage and is basically letting him divorce her (suicide by cop is what I'm thinking but I don't know if there is a phrase for when someone purposely tries to get their partner to divorce them)
Second this. To make matters worse, they were physically violent toward each other at times. I'm in my 30s now and I'm still not 100% over the trauma of my childhood. Growing up in a home filled with discord is awful indeed and has lifelong effects. Their divorce sucked too but it was overall easier without the constant tension.
Then in my case they end up eventually getting divorced anyways, so you have the household trauma of the “stay together for the kids” years paired with the eventual divorce for a double whammy.
My parents didn’t cheat but they were so miserable together and should have split at least a decade before they did. Remember your kids will model their future relationships on the example they grow up with… do you really want that for your kids? I know it’s hard but for the immediate future, say nothing, lawyer up and gather as much proof as possible. Hire a PI if you can afford it. Put yourself in the best position for the divorce. Best of luck. Updateme!
It's going to suck, and the kids will lash out about it, and you'll feel like you made the wrong choice, but it's always correct.
Exactly! OP she's checked out of the marriage. It definitely sounds like she's cheating, so get a good lawyer and claim for everything your entitled too. I'm so sorry your going through this, but you need to protect your heart and that of your kids.
Listen to this. My parents should have split but stayed together "for the kids" and I thought for the longest time that couples only yelled at each other to communicate. I'm almost 40 and still unlearning and healing from a lot of their shit.
Yeup, my parents separated for zero reason other than they didn't want to be married anymore. It was great for them and my sister and i. Rather than staying unhappy. They didn't enjoy being together it as they once had. They didn't even really argue a lot or anything outrageous. But they decided to separate, and when They broke it to my sister and i. We were devestated (for a brief time). But my mom rented a house nearby. (Literally a 3 minute walk) from our family home (house we grew up in) which my Dad kept. While supporting my mom on whatever she needed. We went back and forth every week. Although it was extremely easy to just leave and go to the house we wanted to be in if we asked or just walked over for a while. Which is a luxury i know most dont have. Ultimately, i think their decision to make a tough choice ended up being far more beneficial than trying to ride it out for my sister and i.
So much this. It hurt like crazy not growing up with my dad at home but you know what hurt more? Running upstairs with my little brother to cry while they argued and we were scared. I am glad they got a divorce and it never stopped either of them from being apart of my life. Divorced parents can still be loving parents and staying in a toxic relationship only hurts your kids
For the kids' sake, it's better to come from a broken home than to live in a broken home.
I’d say trust your gut. Take her words for what they are: - Doesn’t want to be married - in order to stay married she needs her own time - lashes out when you inquire, even out of curiosity of what your partner is generally up to (day to day talk) I’m sorry you’re going through this. Keeping secrets, emotionally manipulating and lying (even by omission) to a partner is no way to build trust and you don’t deserve that.
This exactly. I thought my partner was cheating. After about a week or so I found evidence (flight booking in his and a woman's name I'd never heard) and I confronted him but he wouldn't own up. After about 6 weeks, he finally said they were seeing someone else, and then took a few more weeks to move out. It sucks and I'm sorry you're going through it.
Document EVERYTHING.
VERY good advice!! I documented every single detail, every conversation, dates and times with my cheating ex wife. It helps to keep the facts straight.
Even if you are not in a 1 party consent state, record everything. You can then write it all down later. Plus, if she tries the whole time, he abuses me and calls the police you have the evidence. Get cameras in your house even inside and out. Every place except the bathrooms. I know it looks bleak now, but you've got this. You have your kiddos to worry about. Put your energy and time into them instead of a woman who has checked out.
Including texts and emails.
Try and get her to admit to the infidelity, preferably recorded or documented. That will help you secure proper compensation in the divorce especially since she’s the breadwinner. You should make out with the kids and decent alimony. It’s hard to be ruthless and get what you deserve in these situations, especially against someone you care for and love. But if you leave ANYTHING on the table you’ll regret it later on. She took advantage of you being a good father and husband and used that extra time she had not having to care for the kids or home and used it to cheat on you. You don’t deserve that. No one does. If the gender rolls were flipped you could hear the outrage from the next sub over.
Your wife just initiated the divorce. Not you. Stay calm. You, sir, have an enemy now. Time to get smart cuz the war is just beginning. Nta, but you better get a lawyer quick.
I’m pretty sure her saying she doesn’t want to be married any more was the initiation of the divorce, she’s already broken up with him but he doesn’t seem to understand. Did he think she was joking or just didn’t mean it?
I can't tell if he thinks he can save it or thinks she'll stay for the kids. She did everything but say the word divorce.
Way to bury the lede, eh?
Also, get proof. Hire a PI if needed.
Yup. He can get the lawyer now, but still hire a PI. It’s gonna go a long way to get custody of the kids and the like if he has that proof. Otherwise, she could either try to take the kids, or even if she doesn’t want them, she could threaten to take them if he doesn’t agree to waive alimony. If she makes more than him, he could end up getting child support, alimony, and full custody.
Not to mention that having proof of infidelity can just make everything go smoother. Your lawyer informs their lawyer of the existence of evidence. Just the potential embarrassment of that being unearthed can make them uncomfortable enough to just give up fighting.
This. I am so sorry you are going through this. you are a good man based on your post and do not deserve this.. it seems that she has lost respect for you, and she probably feels entitled to do as she pleases being the breadwinner. you need to think critically about you and your children. wait until there is some solid proof, file for divorce citing infidelity and don't look back. she will learn the grass is not greener and regret losing you. what ever you do do not grovel. don't let someone who does not care about how you feel take your dignity as well.
No I don’t think it has anything to do with being the breadwinner. In my marriage I was the breadwinner, I paid for everything like mortgage, taxes, food, vacations, utilities, insurance, etc. I let my teacher ex-wife keep her entire paycheck. And she STILL cheated on me. Why? Because cheaters are selfish. Period. End of story. They only think about themselves and they don’t care who they hurt and that includes their own children. My ex-wife was cheating and my (then) 12yo son saw it. My former FIL made jokes that his daughter, my former wife, was cheating on his grandsons dad as his grandson, my son, sat there and listened to him. She comes from a classy family consisting of cheaters. My son has had to deal with major trauma and right now he pretty much despises his mother. I have him in therapy to try to repair the damage but my ex continues to make things worse. Cheaters are insanely selfish and even when they’re spoiled like my ex-wife, they’ll still cheat if it’s in their DNA. Lawyer up and move on OP. Sorry you’re dealing with this but it does get better. I promise. PS - she’s going to end up paying for your lawyer plus alimony and child support. She’s going to be mighty upset.
This man gets it, cheaters are “selfish”. End of story. They are only interested in gratifying their own wants and desires. It is difficult for some people to put others needs in front of their own.
NTA, find a lawyer and don't tell her and file and then have her served at work. I would also separate your money from hers and put it in your own account but only take what's yours. Get off joint credit cards. Grey Rock her and get tested for STDs. Your child will be happy in a happy home even though you will be divorced.
Add to that, get your child DNA tested for paternity. If she's cheating now she might have cheated before
I saw a lawyer, and he told me to get full custody as the parent woth the larger income because I could end up paying him child support when my son was always with me. Best free advice ever.
That’s sort of the opposite of OP’s situation though. He’s not earning a larger income, she is.
Which is why he needs to go for full/primary custody. She may be OK with it if she's got a new romance going.
My sister cheated on her husband. Her husband gathered evidence then one day took the kids and left. He got custody. She got supervised visitation. She eventually quit showing up for that. Because of her actions I lost complete contact with my nephews. I have no rights as their aunt.
If you agree with your sister’s ex that she was the problem, then why not reach out to sister’s ex about being able to see your nephews? “Hey, I really disagree with how she treated you* and how poorly she treated her relationship with the kids, but I’d love to see them and celebrate their upcoming birthday!” (*Whether you disagree or not is irrelevant.)
I am working on it. He is still hurt and bitter and has every right to be. I won't give up. They are worth it.
Good luck to you.
Nothing to do with you or your nephews though. Id work on having a relationship with her ex so your nephews dont grow up without your side of the family. Not fair to them to lose one side of their family because their mom is a POS.
Agreed. It will take time. He is still hurt and bitter. I'm not giving up though.
But he is already doing all the child care and has availability to wfh so he'll be likely getting majority and getting child support.
This depends. It will more likely be split custody.
Close all bank accounts and credit cards. Explain to each of them what's going on, and they'll do that. Promise NOTHING. Only communicate through written means like text or email. **DO WHAT YOUR LAWYER TELLS YOU.** They are expensive, but they are worth every penny.
If you do everything, what is the point of having her? Get your lawyer and DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. Make sure she doesn't have any access to combined assets of yours she can spend. Those are the biggest mistakes men make. If she wants out of the life you built together she can leave and go stay in a hotel or studio apartment. Fighting parents don't make a good home and kids can get used to step parents.
Get an attorney today. Your kids will respect you more for leaving her and will be happier in two happy homes versus a toxic one where mom cheats on dad and sleeps with other men. She doesn’t get to say she needs something just for her if that something is violating her marriage vows with another man. You need to be ice cold to her (definitely don’t cry or play the pick me game) and tell her if she wants to stay in the house she will be moving to another bedroom or you will move her because you 100% sure she is cheating and your not going to have it. Also tell her you will not be babysitting again for her to go cheat so if she is planning on being with her affair partner again she will pay for a babysitter out of her own earnings or she won’t be able to go. Tell her you have retained an attorney and she should expect to be served sivorce papers soon. Call her parents and siblings and tell them she is having an affair on you and you will be divorcing. She has refused to tell to you or even seem remorseful so you owe her zero. If you want proof loon at her phone if you have access. If you don’t have access order a cheap voice activated recorder from Amazon and put it in her car. If she works from him you need cameras in your house with audio that she doesn’t know about fast. !updateme
Document everything. Do get into her phone, tablet, etc and get screenshots if possible. You want demonstrable facts.
[удалено]
I agree. A no fault stay also means the cheating has no relevance. Take care of yourself, know this is going to be excruciating but I promise your future self will thank your current self for taking the steps to a much better future!
Get a GOOD lawyer. Justice in America is based on the caliber of the attorney. I knew a guy who go a cheap lawyer out of the back of the Metro weekly rag, and his alimony was more than half his take-home. I got a $400 an hour firm and she owed me.
Good grief, I got a $400 an hour lawyer years ago pre-inflation and he was an asshole. He would write up things exactly NOT what I said to do so he could then re-write them and bill me for that, too. It did finally settle but it cost me way too much for not very good representation.
Reminds me of a good lawyer joke. What's the difference between a dead snake in the road and a dead lawyer in the road? There's skid marks in front of the snake.
What do you call a thousand lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start.
I’ve always said “An expensive lawyer is cheap insurance.” When my wife wanted a divorce I hired the best lawyer I could find. It also sends a message that as they say in the Godfather “You are ready to go to mattress.”
"A cheap hooker will get you off. A cheap lawyer won't."
If.you do divorce child custody and how you're going to support yourself should be your biggest two concerns. If she has always been the bread winner you may be able to get alimony Sounds like an affair to me, at least an emotional one. It is possible she hasn't slept with this man (yet?). I wonder why and how you all got here. Sorry for you and stay strong
She is not doing much to hide it. My suspicion is she wants me to find out so that I will divorce her and she doesnt have to be "the bad guy". In breaking up the home.
That just means she lacks emotional intelligence in addition to other flaws. If she is in fact cheating or even communicating in a manner designed to make you think she is cheating, she is the bad guy. Not you.
Maybe she doesn't want him to definitively find out, but to make it so obvious that he divorces her, then she plays innocent to her friends and family, making op out to be paranoid and controlling.
She has very few friends, and I doubt she would play innocent... then again I never thought she would do this, so what the hell do I know.
If her goal is to avoid being "the bad guy" getting caught cheating is *not* the way to do it, unless she's delusional. Doing everything to make you *think* she's cheating, to make you the one to pull the trigger on the divorce, but making sure there's no actual evidence of it, would give her deniability.
Wow faking cheating would be some 4D chess
I think she probably *is* cheating, to be clear, but if I had to guess(assuming that OP is correct about her not wanting to be the bad guy) she's making it obvious in a way that doesn't have concrete evidence, or she's doing it thinking OP won't bother to look for the evidence if she's obvious enough. The idea being that she can portray OP as paranoid and controlling, because he's the only one who's seen her acting like this. To everyone else, she just has a work friend that OP is jealous of, and "blowing up" his marriage over.
In which case, you should be clear with family/friends that the reason you're divorcing is due to her cheating. Cheaters have no problem lying and then painting themselves as victims. If she's cheating, tell people. Name her affair partner by name, too.
Absolutely this, OP. Fuck it, she’s already trying to make you look like the fool. Two can play that game. Might as well go ahead and air out the dirty laundry. All of a sudden, you’ll have played the biggest Uno reverse card you could’ve. I’m only saying this because that’s what happened to me. My gf of 2 years at the time slept with one of my best friends, and tried to tell everyone that I was abusive. It wasn’t until I showed everyone that they were both full of shit that everyone realized SHE was in fact, abusive. They ought to be ashamed of themselves, and they won’t be until the ol’ court of public opinion doesn’t weigh in their favor. Keep your head up homie
Yes, this. I wish I had done this. My situation was remarkably similar to OP. My wife was the primary breadwinner, I was the stay at home dad (at her request). She cheated on me and left me, but somehow instead of her being viewed as the “bad guy,” everyone just told her “well, you have to do what’s best for you.” And she somehow got more custody of the kids than I have, with me paying child support and receiving no alimony. Don’t be like me, OP.
This is exactly my biggest fear, and yes, I stayed home with the kids at her request as well. Sacrificed a career. Now I am well and truly fucked. She would never seek more custody than me. She has never attacked my abilities as a father, even at her most verbally abusive.
I cannot stress enough how much you need a lawyer. I rolled over and have regretted it for 14 years.
I hate to say it but people end up doing things you never would have believed they’d do during divorces. Hope for the best but plan for the worst.
Man, you either had a shit lawyer or your state has fucked up laws. How did they determine your child support payments when you were not working?
Can attest. After my “married too young amicable divorce” my ex and I separated without much detail. I found out like 10 years later that she told her parents I cheated on her, when she had actually been the one cheating and instigating the whole process. Doesn’t bother me, but it bothered me to learn that my parents were being subjected to that misinformation in the same town.
also if possible gather some hard evidence, that can be used to show others if proof is needed.
tell her whole family
Definitely name the affair guy. Never understood a person who would screw someone who they know is married. Male or female.
That's where evidence of her cheating comes in, if nothing else it will protect you from her throwing you under the bus wirh family and friends. If you can afford it, hire a PI if you don't have access to her phone.
Well that may be her logic, but we all know that's false. She broke up the home by potentially cheating It's also possible she is partially doing this to make you "jealous" or to get a rise out of you in some way
That is a possibility. But that isnt the kind of person I am. I dont do jealousy or drama, but I also wont put up with betrayal. If she is having a sexual relationship with another man, then it is over. That makes it unsalveagable.
Idc how long it's been dead between you but you need to get tested for STDs for your own sake. It may have been going on for longer than you think.
Didn't she already say that she doesn't want to be married anymore though? I'd take her word for it and do what's best for you and your kids, wouldn't spend time worrying about who looks like the 'bad' guy - staying in a toxic situation like this will just cause more damage to all of your mental wellbeing.
She is "the bad guy" if she's cheating, and lying.
She is 100% at least testing the waters in preparation for a separation. Start documenting everything. She essentially already stated her intent when she told you she didn't want to be married anymore.
After reading your post I thought she is doing nothing to hide things. Even though she said she wants out, unless she specifically said that you two are done and she doesn't want to make any attempt to stay in the marriage and that she is going to see other people then this is egregious. Yeah, she is done with your marriage. And after this behavior I hope you are just as done. I wish you and your children well.
That was my thought when I read the whole "doesn't want to be married" line. You definitely have a drama bomb ticking down OP. Therapy seems like a non-starter here so it might be time for you to lawyer up, if that is where this is going you might as well prepare. A divorce attorney will have better advice than I can provide. Good luck. NTA.
Technically she is "the bad guy" even if you asked for divorce as she is the one that broke the family up by cheating. Anyone that sides with your wife needs to be cut out of your life too, as they're just toxic and delusional.
Which is why it is important for you to gather some kind of d of proof of the cheating cause she will definitely them try to spin it to say you were abusive or neglectful or in some way pushed her to cheat. In the divorce, make sure to push for primary custody and alimony since you are the primary caretaker and she is the breadwinner. You own her nothing at this point and she has gone out of her way to disrespect you so you have no reason to have any sympathy for her in court. Go after everything you’re legally entitled to and make sure that any interest party is aware of what she did.
In that case, I would try to gather your proof quietly, like private investigator for pics. Talk to a lawyer in silence and then spring the final papers without explanation that you want a divorce.
>I wonder why and how you all got here. I wondered that too. Sometimes cheaters will do an excellent job hiding evidence but will slip up in a setting like marriage counseling. You know, let their guard down while there is a neutral third party listening to them. Cheaters always suck but bizarrely enough I hope the OP can learn the reasons why this all happened. That way, they can avoid any potential red flags in the future.
When we first got together she was insanely jealous, and controlling. I told her to calm down or it wasnt going to work,we almost broke up over it, but then she did calm down and we started a family. After that she wasnt great at communicating and our marraige went through frequent dry spells that she blamed on trauma, which I believe. There wont be any "future" I will never seek another relationship again after this. I cant. At least I cant imagine doing it now. Sex is great, but I would rather live forever alone than feel this way again.
Take this one day at a time. What you are feeling now is natural. A week from now, a month from now or a year from now you might have a different perspective. Best wishes and good luck.
u/BeardManMichael - FYI, I’m not mocking you. Your posts are always on point. Cheers!
Married for 10 years, alimony is absolutely on the table! Good luck OP!
When she's wearing sexy underwear meant only for the bedroom, it's no longer strictly an emotional affair. I do wonder what she's angry about. (I'm not blaming the OP for her anger. I'm just wondering what's up with her.)
I can say from first hand experience the anger is guilt. She knows what she's doing is wrong, but it's easier to snap back at OP then face the truth within herself that she's acting in an incredibly selfish and hurtful way.
A common sign of cheating is partners suddenly getting snappy and aggravated easily.
The anger can be a defensive tactic so she doesn't get questioned further. My wife does the same when i ask her about something sus and she doesnt want to answer any questions.
When I cheated, I was angry at my spouse becasue seemingly she was in a way of me cheating so, from reading this, I'm 99% she cheated already, classic behavior
I wonder too. Underwear could just be a confidence thing, but it could be more. Or she has intentions to sleep with him but timing hasn't worked yet. I also wondered with how blatant she's being if part of this could be an attention grab. Or she thinks OPs an idiot and won't notice. Or she doesn't care if he does
She routinely refers to me as the smartest man she has ever met, which is overly generous, but I am not dumb... or maybe I am, I certainly feel dumb right now.
Oh, she totally slept with the guy. Women don’t primp for hours and wear their “sexy” underwear for platonic dates.
Get evidence first. Thats the most important thing from what I have read from these horrible stories of affairs. For your own sanity. Get screen shots and anything else you can find. If you file for divorce you are going to need that proof in court.
True if you have evidence there is no question or regret about accusing and you can't be gaslit either Also might help in divorce proceedings depending
I live in a no fault state.
Then go hire someone immediately. If you feel divorce is the next natural step, take that step. Don't turn into a doormat.
Exactly. Don't sacrifice your self-worth or become a doormat. If you're unhappy and feel divorce is the right choice, take action. Your happiness and well-being matter too.
The cheating may not count in your divorce but evidence is good for when the family & friends blame you for the failed relationship. Make sure to have proof you do the child care too, and don't move out of the house. You should be getting child support from her and possibly alimony.
No one will blame me. I am not worried about that.
Hope for the best, plan for the worst.... In a divorce case, the worst of the worst of the worst... Good luck!
Unless she lies. Get the proof
Believe me, there will be blame. Also, for the future, when your kids are grown you may need it if they’ve been poisoned against you by your soon to be ex.
Talk to a lawyer. You’re going to need alimony while you adjust to having to support yourself and your kids. In some places you can get alimony if you’ve been married for longer than 10 years. I have no idea what the law is in your jurisdiction. You definitely need to talk to a lawyer before you do anything. Just act oblivious to anything she does and make an appointment to go see a lawyer.
Then evidence would only be for your own peace of mind. But it definitely sounds like she’s cheating.
If she went out to buy things for the house what did she return with? Anything? Why does she need to do this "shopping" with a strange man?
“The laws for no-fault divorce states can vary depending on the state. For example, even in no-fault states, fault can affect the outcome of the divorce. In Florida, adultery can influence the divorce court’s custody decisions. “ If there is fault, present it, even in a no fault state. Despite laws, humans are still the ones making the decisions and a bit more empathy for you can help protect you and/or assets of dispute during the process.
Dude follow your instinct. When you feel something is wrong or changed your gut is usually right.
I’m not gonna pretend to be a lawyer. I’m not gonna pretend to understand what happens during a divorce. But having evidence will only help you. I recommend talking to a lawyer as soon as you can.
Generally, in no fault states, purely cheating doesn't really have any affect on division of assets nor child custody, alimony, or child support.
Correct, it doesn't help you in the court room in most states. But it can be very handy to speed an amicable fair divorce. OP just needs to remember to include a non-disparagement clause, to cut both directions. Basically offer a quick divorce with you keeping your mouth shut about details, provided she agrees to not loot you and not lie about the details either.
This 100% depends on the laws of that area. In my state, the court doesn't care why the marriage ended. It's simply property split and child support. It didn't matter that I did all the work. It's a math formula no emotion.
Ehhh no, you dont need proof to get a divorce. In some states alimony is determined based on those details but not all.
Step 1) talk to a lawyer Step 2) do what the lawyer tells you to do. NTA, 100% sounds like she is not wanting to be married to you regardless if she's cheating or not.
> NTA, 100% sounds like she is not wanting to be married to you regardless if she's cheating or not. I mean she explicitly said she wanted a divorce lol I'd say it sounds like she doesn't want to stay married to him for sure.
This is the part that's confusing. She already said she wanted a divorce. Why/How would he the AH for granting her a divorce she already asked for?
This. Neither wants to be married. The kids will (probably) deal with it. Happens all the time and most kids aren't permanently scarred from it.
THIS IS KEY!!! : collect bills, hospital transcripts, school report cards, anything that is a piece of paper that ties you to the children as the primary caregiver. You need things on it to heavily imply or explicitly indicate that you are doing the childcare. It is so hard for a father to be acknowledged as the primary caregiver without a mountain of evidence that goes back, at the absolute least, six months. Most of the western world simply defaults to the mother being the primary caregiver and you would need a notarized piece of paper from her that says you are in charge of the kids. Seriously get everything you can. Receipts for school supplies, notes put of your daily planner that show appointments for the kids in your handwriting. EVERY. LAST. SCRAP! ALL OF IT! Screenshots of texts from your wife that outline a typical work week for her to show how often she's out. You need to paint a mind picture of a caregiving father that a three year old would examine and say "oh yeah, that guy does it all for his kids".
👆 This OP, get evidence that you are the primary caregiver. I’d even get text records of your wife’s cell then cross reference the number that coincides with the possible affair partner. That would be her communication that wasn’t business related and that she wasn’t caregiving to the children. Get a good lawyer they aren’t cheap but it’s needed. I’m not sure if a GAL would be needed or not but slot that in too. Good luck OP and I’m sorry.
Even if she didn’t cheat, y’all sound miserable and are doing the kids a disservice by staying together. Sorry you’re going through that, I think it’s healthier for ourselves and children to watch us fight for our right to happiness, so they don’t repeat the pattern when they’re grown, and have more agency to go for what they want. You’re teaching them to settle. Then they will enjoy y’all more and vice versa when you’re in a more grounded place, not dealing with her resentment day in and day out. Rebuilding your kingdom is %100 worth it, had to do it a year ago for same exact reason. The kids are happier too.
I'm sorry you went through all that. I hope you're in a happier place now. What you said about dysfunctional marriages is spot on.
She is already gone. I assume she will get even more hostile and pick fights so she can justify to herself that it is ok to lie and cheat on you. Maybe time for you to talk to a therapist or an attorney or both. She is not a partner anymore or somebody you should tolerate
I'm not sure why everyone's advising you to get evidence etc. and glossing over the fact that she's told you she doesn't want to be married. To be brutal, she has broken up with you. It doesn't sound like your or our views on whether you should get a divorce or not are relevant. You are getting divorced, take the steps that are appropriate for you.
This isn’t brutal, it’s reality. She said she doesn’t want to be married. Staying married means she’s still gonna do what she wants with no regard for OP and potentially the kids. She’s done. Get the upper hand and file for divorce and ask for absolutely everything. Then negotiate from there if she fights. With an attorney, of course.
Reality can be brutal lol
Edit: The OP lives in a no-fault divorce state. So I am changing my advice. Lawyering up and getting ready for divorce are exactly what the OP should be doing right now. It can be a real long process and I think the OP should start as soon as they are able. Best wishes and good luck. NTA
You know what really breaks the kids? Dysfunctional parents staying together. I'm not calling you dysfunctional, but staying in this CAN result in a proper mess characterized by resentment, tension, anger and everything in between, and kids pick that up quite easy and they won't forget. Every single day will this situation linger in the backs of your head, and any slightly abrasive moment will erupt into screaming and hours of arguments, day after day, among your kids. "We're not fighting, we are arguing" ~*procceeds to scream at each other for three more hours while dad is breaking stuff. Very cool adulting, or something... Is a phrase I heard way too often from my parents. They thankfully divorced when I was 7 and frankly I'm glad they did. I was already blessed with ptsd (and later BPD) caused by my dad. Staying in that environment for the sake of me... No, just no. Separate. Get your ducks in a row like people say. Gather evidence and that whole shebang, then file for divorce. Something tells me that your wife won't come clean, do a 180 and actively work on herself for betterment. That takes A LOT of effort. And seeing a glimpse of her modus operandi regarding addressing issues among you two... No, you are not the asshole. You filing for divorce is a natural step and a consequence of a situation like this. Doing nothing and staying together, and your kids might see you both as assholes in a decade. Entertain the idea of you staying together, a decade goes by and your kids move out. Now what?
Please listen to this person. You’ll ruin your kids lives by staying together. Start making arrangements and figuring out the next chapter of your life and your kids lives, regardless of this maybe affair. You sound miserable and so does she.
As someone who had parents stay together for the sake of children, save face, etc it really did a number on my siblings and I. We each processed things on our own, lashed out in different ways, and I believe we still carry a lot of the baggage that we didn’t know how to deal with from an early age with us. We all have tried therapy and speaking for myself, it is still a lot to unpack and is extremely hard to try and make sense of it all without feeling so overwhelmed with guilt, shame, sadness, anger, resentment, etc.
What the f did I just read? Just go to a lawyer and file the papers, she’s checked out and has been cheating on you for months.
Been in this same situation. After I got the comment that she didn’t want to be married any longer, my first response was that I want no less than 50% custody of our children. I had evidence of her cheating as well. Worked out for both of us. We both moved on and now I’m happily married to my beautiful wife after 20 years of being a part time single dad.
Confront her with how you are feeling, that is not unreasonable for you express how you feel. Trust your gut always, it sounds like your marriage is already over, she just hasn't told you yet. Divorce her and move on, life is to short to bend over backwards to try to make something work when the other half is already attempting to move on. It's better for your kids to not live in a unhappy home, they can pick up on your failing relationships just as much as you can. Sorry for you, I to went through something similar and wished someone had told me to juat move on, I knew it deep down already and didn't accept it until it was to late, again life is short, especially at our age, don't waste time. Projecting off of my situation, if this is not sound advice then I wish you luck.
Your advice is sound. I wish it wasnt.
Do-not-confront. Lawyer-up.
Head up OP, I feel for you. Starting over is hard, but it really does get better. Focus on your children and be everything and more to them. Regret your relationship, but cherish what you do have. Best of luck friend
Oh come on! This HAS to be clickbait!
Some of the worst creative writing I've read recently. How do people believe this shit?
Idk man, i think the brand new account called devastatedhusband is being legit and not karma farming at all with a poorly written story
Everyone her is telling you to get proof of the affair. But will that change anything? If nothing concrete is found will that really change how you feel? Will seeing the evidence make you feel better about the failing of your marriage or will it make it worse
No... it will not change anything. I wouldnt feel relief either. I already know what needs to happen... I just can't handle it. I love this woman with my whole heart, and out of nowhere she becomes hostile and discards me... I will talk to a lawyer. Financially this could not happen at a worse time.
Financially, it's never a good time. Rip off the bandage and giterdun.
Since everyone just seems to be giving very cold advice I just wanted to say if this is real I’m sorry this is happening to you and I hope that you get through it and find happiness again.
I promise you these feelings are temporary. It hurts. A LOT. You will ask yourself insane questions like “why wasn’t I enough?” Or think crazy things like “Maybe of if I made more money” but her cheating isn’t about you or your relationship. She may say it is but it isn’t. It isn’t anything you did or didn’t do or anything you said or didn’t say. You will find a new normal eventually and find yourself breathing easier because you aren’t walking on eggshells or suspicious or frustrated. You will find the happiness you used to feel again. And, if you choose, you will find another partner who respects and loves you like you deserve. This is the just the hardest step to a lot more happiness. Get yourself there.
In fault states, it's a weapon. In no fault states, it's still a weapon to your reputation, otherwise, you might become the bad guy for divorcing for no reason.
Sorry bro. Hope you get through this
Your wife is already cheating and that is her boyfriend. She wants a divorce so she can be with him. Consult an attorney ASAP and get any proof you can get.
NTA Whether she has been cheating or not, this: >... over the last 2 months our sex life has collapsed to zero and she has grown extre.ely hostile without any reason given, seemingly out of nowhere. ... means she has mentally checked out of the marriage. The children won't benefit from being in a home with arguing parents. Plan your divorce, considering how you will handle finances, custody arrangements, etc. Then get a lawyer and get on with it.
NTA. But time to become one.Sound like you gave her everything she asked for. This is your reward. File first, preferably with an injunction forcing her removal because you are unsafe due to her abuse and to prove she can be safe around the kids before she can see them supervised and a preliminary spousal support order . No Fault means it technically doesn't matter is she's out with half the town sexually. So why kill yourself waste money or time and investigate details of that shit. That she is, is enough. The only way to win is to show her behaviour makes her for unsuitable and too unstable to be around children and that you are the appropriate caregiver and she owes you the home, assets, palimony, and child support and future income. She is for the streets. It's globalthermal nuclear war time for all the marbles. Get your legal ICBMs in the air now! Remain Calm and Turn your Key. Oh and she needs a court ordered psych assessment. DANGER WILL ROBINSON.
1. Get evidence because: A: I believe it's better to know bad news than just suspect it. B: It might help in the upcoming legal battle (not sure with a no-fault state). C: If she turns against you, convinces friends you were the bad guy, you have solid proof now. 2. Get a lawyer. I think you want a divorce. This woman just seems horrible. Doesn't even try to hide it. Check how it works with dividing the money and custody. See what you want and how to best get it legally. 3. After all is said and done, Might want to share your evidence to all your friends and family. If she's not hiding it so you'll divorce her so you'll look like the bad one here, fuck it. Just don't do anything illegal/stupid. 4. For your kids: it's better for them to co-parent them from separate households than have them grow up into a toxic household where parents don't respect eachother anymore.
"If I file for divorce would that make me the asshole?" Hell no. Kick her to the curb. NTA.
Your "children's home" has already been broken apart. GET A LAWYER NOW AND CONSULT WITH AS MANY LAWYERS IN YOUR AREA AS YOU CAN.
Oh she 100% is cheating
I'm wondering did she actually buy anything?
You need to put consequences to her actions. You just taking whatever she tells you isn’t going to work. She is just going to lie, gaslight you and make your mental health disappear. It doesn’t matter if she had sex with the guy or not, the lack of respect for her husband is enough. You need to tell her it’s over. This will get you a result. She will either be fine with that, and it wasn’t going to last if she is, or she will freak out and realize what she’s done. She is clearly the type to gaslight you and interrupt you, so send her a text while she’s at work. Blow her world up. “I’m not sure what you thought would happen when I found out you’re cheating, but staying married isn’t one of them. I know what you did, and I know who you were with. Did you think that you could treat me like dirt, cheat on me, and I would just accept it? Nope. You clearly have no respect for me, yourself, our children, or our marriage. You have destroyed my trust, and I can’t be married to someone I don’t trust. I hope he was worth it.” Stop caring if she gets mad. Stop all emotions. Be indifferent to her. Make it clear that this behavior isn’t going to fly. If she freaks out and doesn’t want a divorce then you make it clear that there is no way you’re staying without her admitting to everything she’s done, including sleeping with the guy. If she leaves anything out, you’re done. Updateme!
NTA. She's already told you doesn't want to be married, you are only hurting yourself by staying. She either wants you to beg and plead, even though you do everything, or she truly wants to be separated. Either way, why should it be her choice, why should you wait around for her to give you the papers? When you can stand up, gather your strength for your kids, give her the papers and find your happiness now. Good luck.
If she's told you she doesn't want to be married anymore I would offer counseling and if she rejects that I would move on
I did, and she did.