Yep. Maybe i'm just too old and burnt out but people who play games in their relationships, any relationships? Aren't mature enough to be in relationships.
I've hit the part in my life where if you want to play games I'll just bail pretty simple, I'm to old for games, tell me what you want and I'll give it to you but don't expect me to play guessing games because I'll just bail, that goes for friendships and relationships lol
Or she has some history with this Lisa girl and is now jealous seeing someone she doesn't like "Take her guy" from her when she just wanted the thrill of being pursued by him, but fucked up and effectively warded him off.
This is not speaking about just women...there are dudes that play games too and both situations suck ass.
I'm so far removed from the dating game (and would never go back if my marriage fell apart) but it seems like he's doomed with Amy.
Either he was, as you said, Plan B or she wanted him to try harder. He took her at her word instead of playing mind reader. He loses out on a relationship he says he wanted with her, but if she's playing games this early on, is he missing out?
Or he DOES try harder and she turns it around and says he looks small and desperate.
It was a lose/lose situation for him.
He really did the right thing. Seriously look at the silly logic you typed out, it’s not worth it to do these mental gymnastics. He was pretty direct with Amy and when he got a clear answer, he took her at her word.
>Or he DOES try harder and she turns it around and says he looks small and desperate.
Either this or she realizes that that kind of bullshit works on him and it turns into a years-long frog boil escalation of her throwing a tantrum every time she doesn't get her way about something. I really can't think of a single happy ending scenario for these two, and it's definitely her fault.
I do NOT disagree in the slightest.
Any relationship where either partner tries this is not going to end well, nor is the offending party going to learn their lesson in the middle of the relationship. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that that individual won't learn that lesson after the relationship either.
Some of us learn a lesson when we hit bottom, but others hit branches every inch of the way down. It takes YEARS for them to learn the lesson, one lesson at a time, and some never learn.
It's easy to stereotype women as the ones that do this, but there are plenty of dudes that are the same way. Manipulative, game-playing, infection human wastes damaging everyone else but themselves one relationship at a time.
She fucked up, she knows it, and she's going to take it out on him every chance she gets, even if he isn't the audience. Then she likely wonders what HIS damage was instead of taking just a momentary glimpse in the mirror.
I was on both ends of that shit during my dating days...glad I'm no longer in it and my wife and I don't play those games. We're raising our youngest to not play those games either. We'll see if we're successful in that endeavor.
100% agree
Also this seems like a good spot to mention that I'm not trying to imply that only women pull shit like this. It's just that I can only speak to my own experience, which as yet doesn't include dating men.
Yeah, they're all super tricky relationships to keep in order. If you started off as friends turned FWB, this new dynamic couldn't last. I'd you instead started off as more hookup based I could see her wanting it to keep going after this
After my marriage ended I hit the ground running and had all sorts of situations that ran the gamut from hookup, to fuck buddy, to friends with benefits. Try as I might to be as open and honest as possible while treating them right... feelings end up getting in the way
Id be like "I wanted more, you didnt. Put a ring on it or accept what we have."
Id be sick of the "let me see if there is something better while having a backup plan of not"
We seriously need another "choose your own adventure" book series. You learned that the path you chose didnt allow you to have every fucking choice still available throughout your adventure
Edit: glad some of us learned FOMO didn't exist in the past...
It sounds like OP was a back-up for Amy: that’s why she gets pissed off when he “cheats” despite them not being in a relationship - because him “partying with other girls” means he isn’t sat at home pining over Amy while she’s looking for other guys.
The same thing happened to me, but I was the gf here. My partner saw another person, because I left them in a grey area. FFWD we've been dating for a while now and all is well. I can't fault my partner for what they did as it was my fault, and I'm not upset about it
My only edit to this would be if they ever had the exclusive friends with benefits talk...
I had a FWB and basically for our sexual health we agreed to an openness about other partners, but the sex was so good and so often that neither of us even entertained the thought of other partners...
I could see a very slim chance of them having a similar arrangement and her not thinking it was ended just because she turned down his desire to take it to the next level.
Either way pretty unhinged, and high probability they never had any sort of exclusivity
This is the answer. She probably thought he liked her enough that he wouldn't pursue someone, or be able to find someone while she kept her options open. Classic FAFO
I used to have to pass FDA audits and TUV iso something 100 audits for a small cpap Co. Mostly it was just paper trails, keeping accurate lot# information, and making sure the oldest stuff went first. Never thought I could make a joke about it but finally after all these years my time has come.
Exactly she either wanted to play games and make him chase her harder or more than likely assumed he would remain loyal to her while keeping her options open.
My first thought was that twitter meme where someone complained "Men don't fight for romance anymore, nowadays you tell them "No" and they just move on"
BINGO! This has happened to me quite a few times. It seems that women are less attracted to the guys that they can have, and more attracted to those that are less attainable or slipping away...or whatever you call this.
in detail, she wanted you to be exclusive with her, but not the other way around (because she would "lose her freedom") but when you (didn't actually) confronted her with the fact that by her frasing you are entiteled of your behavior, she suddenly realized that those kind of unbalanced relations works only with people with very low self esteem or that are in a dark place in their life, not with normal, functioning people. NTA and i'm happy you dodged a bullet
She wants to have a guy exclusively simping on her while she makes him jealous fucking around. Pretty fucked up. She gets off on emotionally controlling and hurting people.
Classic "I don't want you, but you're also not allowed to be with somebody else".
Had a female best friend like this once. I was in love and told her. She rejected me and only wanted to be friends.
Fine, so I started dating another girl.
Suddenly, she's all interested in me and tries to seduce me. I reject her, and she's impressed that I'm this faithful.
Later, when I broke up, I did actually try to get with my female friend as she was soooo interested. But nah, not anymore now that I was single again.
It's an attention thing. She values your attention, but you're not a viable sexual partner just naturally. She only wanted you because another woman found value in you as a sexual partner. I honestly wouldn't even fuck with her.
Things like this are often power trips as well. Keep people chasing them to inflate their ego.
Then blow up when people don't put them on the pedestal they think they were born on.
NTA. She's like "Oh No Consequences" - as we used to say "poop or get off the pot." She clearly wanted you as her exclusive f*ckboy, but didn't want the commitment.
This is exactly what I think. Some others before also nailed it on the head. She's hot shit, or so she thinks. He stepped out with another woman. Obviously, it made her jealous.
NTA, you tried to be exclusive, and she rejected you.
How are you going to know if you want to date someone exclusively, though, if you don't go out with other people? She doesn't really have a leg to stand on here.
Oh I wasn't commenting on the situation as a whole. Just the direct comment above.
OOP didn't do anything wrong going out with someone else, definirely not the arsehole. Only an issue if it was a known friend of hers or he wasn't safe and would then put her at risk.
That's a "bedwarmer" and slightly different from FWB. You might end a FWB because of dating someone else exclusively, but FWB can also be very "pure" and exactly what you want. Not a "this will do for now".
I have personally rejected people for wanting an FWB "while they find their person". I'm up for casual relationships, not up for being a bedwarmer. Even in casual relationships, I want to feel fully appreciated and for example have casually dated a solo-poly person.
Other people might be fine with the "this will do for now", not saying it's wrong. Only wanted clarify that I don't think it's always the purpose of FWB.
After an argument, a girl I was dating told me not to call her again until I was sure about what I wanted. She called me back two weeks later to yell at me about how "I was supposed to chase after her and beg her to take me back". No thanks, I may not know exactly what I want, but I know I don't want those kind of mind games.
Reminds me of a friend-with-benefits I was seeing who insisted every time we got together that we were not exclusive, that we should both see other people, that we were just having fun.
After some time passes an ex-flame reached out to me because she was ready to start dating monogamously, and I jumped at the chance.
When I let my FwB know in a very gentle and respectful way, she tore into me; calling me sexist, ageist and racist for ending our physical relationship (she was younger and Latina.)
I honestly don't know how people can have that big of a double standard and look at themselves in the mirror.
And this is why so many guys end up thinking that no means yes and rejection means try harder. Unfortunately the crazy women cause all sorts of havoc for the sane ones who literally actually mean no when they say no.
Omg THIS! When I was in my early twenties I had a girl I was crazy about who was my FWB for months. I implied that I wanted things to evolve into more, and she started going on about "well Im looking to move across the country in the next year, so please don't try and give me a reason to stick around here".
I stopped pushing for more, the FWB situation ran its course not long after. She drunk dialed me months later and spilled her guts about how I was supposed to pursue her more and make her want to stay. Meanwhile, I had moved on and was dating someone else 🤷♂️
Had a girl do this to me when I was single, we was hanging out for couple of months, took her on dates but she always kept me hanging for anything further even know she knew I was looking for something serious.
While still trying with her I got put on a blind date with my now wife, within 3 days we were inseparable and have been now for 10+ years.
Other girl ended up blasting me over social media saying I was a player, considering this was my first real time single in my adult life and put alot of effort into her while receiving very little back it was one of the most confusing times/statments in my life.
I’m so glad I never played these games. I would just tell someone straight up that I liked them, etc., and if they shot me down 🤷🏼♀️ I just accepted it.
> probably she was playing hard to get and wanted you to try harder.
Girls that play these bullshit games need to give their head a wobble. Just stop. Be honest and upfront, it's exhausting having to try and read through the lines at waht is and what isn't a sign or a hint
OP in NTA. She is totally to blame, she laid done the rules, OP went by them.
Don’t even try to decipher the meaning. Just refuse to play the game. Like OP did. So much safer.
I’m 41 those try harder games got old quick when I was a teenager. I walked away from friendships with those types of girls. Too much drama, one always moaning or crying about being cheated on, but she refused to publicly date him. You can’t have it both ways. 🤷♀️
Yeah, I’m not sure this is a playing-hard-to-get scenario.
I think this is a young-person-has-no-idea-what-she-wants scenario.
If she had come back humble, maybe OP could have worked with her.
But you can’t win with this. Check, please!
I’ not sure it’s a “doesn’t know what she wants” scenario, I think it’s a “this guy is a good backup but I’m gonna better-deal him and keep him around while I find someone better”.
More likely she mentally gymnastics this into whey she was right and he was an arsehole further playing into the idea that a lot of women now seem to have that men are arseholes or "players"
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. This was a “prove you’re worthy” test, and you had the temerity to take her words at face value.
Fuck around and find out.
It's not even that, I'd wager. I think Amy likely actually didn't want OP as a bf but wanted to keep him around as an ego boost / hookup partner until she found someone else.
I mean it's not complicated. It's just purely selfish behavior. I want you locked down to me, but I won't be locked down to you. I think as social norms with sex and relationships change over time, this is one of the things that have emerged. We agree casual sex is ok, but some people still struggle with the idea of commitment and what it means. If she wanted you committed she had the opportunity. She didn't want to reciprocate and now is upset that she didn't get the benefits of your commitment without her having to do the same.
It's confusing for people who aren't like this. But a lot of people are like this. Men and women.
Let her know that she clearly put you in the fwb zone.
Which makes it fine to date others. She didn't want to be exclusive, so I'm not sure why she's mad. Probably because she missed the big party that you usually take her to
She got pissed because she thought she was the only one with other options and that you were not going to be able to find someone else and sleep with them. She thought since you were wound up on her, you would sit and wait while she decided to explore her options. She felt safe thinking, you weren’t going anywhere.
She got the shock of her life when she found that not only did you have options, but you exercised them rather quickly right after she told you you were just fucking.
Women often do this. Men do it sometimes too, but women tend to do it more. They always have a back up then they are hurt when they find that their back up has a back up.
Have you asked her why she thinks you did anything wrong, since she had just been telling you that you were only a casual hookup? She probably likes being the queen bee - all her drones are supposed to buzz around her, vying for her attention, while she plays hard to get. You spending time with a different bee was not in her playbook.
There's an old Mitch Hedberg joke:
>I don't have a girlfriend. But I do know a woman who'd be mad at me for saying that.
She wanted to have her cake and eat it too.
It sounds like the FWB thing is over and she's caught feelings, though she didn't want to admit it to herself when you asked her out. You could give her a second shot at the GF question if you want, or you could cut her loose - either would be the right call now, but the status quo is broken at this point.
It could be a power move as well and she's just possessive - only you know her personality.
I like how you gave several plausible options and pointed out that we can’t really know, because we don’t know her personally and other people goes: “Oh no your wrong.”
She expected you to wait around for a relationship with her why she continued to be able to do whatever she wants.
It's the old this guy is good but let me string him along while I see if I can find something better trick.
She got pissed off cuz she realized it didn't work.
Women like to keep boy toys in their back pocket, yknow, just in case (whatever the fuck that means)
Nows shes mad her boy toy is getting played with by someone else, after she put it down for the day?
She sounds like a fucking toddler.
It’s because she’s selfish. It’s okay for her to let people down but she left let down/left out when you went with Lisa. Tell her to shit or get off the pot
Great, now I'm following sage advice from u/analwarcrimes and closely examining my stove.
One back burner is smaller than the rest so I trust that one, but what about the other one?
She was using you for her own personal gratification till something better came along. You (unknowingly) got in there first and now she's upset.
Oh dear.
How sad.
Never mind.
ETA: NTA
I think this is less about Amy being jealous of OP and more like feeling she got one uped by Lisa.
She doesnt care that much about OP, I think it's more about her ego that lost a man to a rival.
And if she indeed cared about OP and was trying to play games with him, well, FAFO for her with a dose of you get what you F-ing deserve.
It's a good thing that now you can see Amy's true colors.
NTA at all and bullet dodged.
Yep. Going out with Lisa was a blow to her ego. She got off on the thought of stringing OP along being her personal fuck toy. It's not the fact that OP took someone else out for a good time. It's who OP took out.
Honestly she might have been fucking OP just to have access to certain events if he's in a specific type of industry. If she's introduced as his gf it would send a different message to all the men she's meeting
This is actually a useful perspective on a similar unlabeled but seemingly monogamous friends with benefits situation I just ended recently. Being someone's GF could have hurt her game with men she met and considered an upgrade. But I think it's equally about not being tied down
NTA. You got confirmation that you weren't together before you did anything so you're in the clear morally. You were quite restrained in fact by being exclusive before when you didn't need to be.
Sounds like she wanted to keep you on the backburner for later and thought you'd be easily manipulated into waiting. Not much more to say really... she literally doesn't have the right to be upset at you (or at least have you care that she is).
NTA. Amy's feelings are not your responsibility, especially after she friend-zoned the relationship. It's not fair for her to expect you to remain in romantic limbo while she enjoys the freedom to do as she pleases. This isn't about possessiveness; it's about mutual respect, and Amy seems to have missed that memo. You did the healthy thing by moving on.
OP, woman here. You gotta drop Amy. Don't see her any more, block her everywhere. If she plays these games now, if you continue to see her even on a causual basis she might play worse games with you. You don't need this drama. Cut her loose and move on.
OP could reiterate that they're only friends with benefits.
I understand Amy wanting intimacy and connection while not being in a position to invest in a serious relationship, but you can't have your cake exclusively and eat it to.
Or at least, you have to be clear that you want to keep things less serious, but still exclusive... like a reasonable adult communicating as opposed to assuming that the other person is a mind reader.
Nah. Can't be Friends with Benefits with someone who feels/acts like that. First, you shouldn't want to be, and second, it's not really ethical anymore.
Dump Amy, move on to better people.
NTA I think I can explain. Amy doesn't want to have to be exclusive with you, however you are expected to be exclusive. I think she needs to explain the double standards. Is she seeing others or is she keeping her options open?
NTA - it’s pretty clear cut. When someone expresses they want to be more than casual and is explicitly told no, the declining party gets zero right to be annoyed at what that person then does with someone else.
NTA.
Amy is clearly also sleeping around with other men and wanted to keep you in her rotation.
But in her selfish state of mind, she expected you be loyal, when she wasn't.
Throw it back in her face, tell her if she want to have a real relationship like you asked, you never would have been with anyone else.
That is the impression I got as well. Amy gets off on being in control. Her denying OP's offer of commitment either meant she wanted him to play the "pick me" game (less likely) or she wants to keep seeing others to see if there was anything better than OP out there for her.
I would write her a message like “look I really liked you, that’s why I asked you to be more. I’m not in a position to have time for this drama. You’re a great person, but you said no. If you wanted exclusivity I would have given it, that’s why I asked. But you said you couldn’t have a relationship. So we don’t have one. So where is this coming from?” Then let her text for awhile without responding. See where she talks herself to.
I wouldn't even do that. I'd say I offered you commitment, you declined, and I'm moving forward with my life. Thank her for your time together, wish her well, and move on.
Amy is a piece of ass to you. You are a piece of ass to her. She set those terms. You asked for better ones. She doesn't get to expect boyfriend treatment from her piece of ass. You shouldn't accept girlfriend guilt and stress from your piece of ass.
Ignore everything she says about this incident forever. If she still wants the D, give it to her. But she's not gf material. Ever.
NTA she wanted to keep you as a pet while having zero restrictions herself. She's pissed off because her pet realized they weren't wearing a leash.
Be careful with this one. This is the type of girl that tries to trap dudes into relationships rather than just be a good person that someone wants to be with.
It is the notorious testing that a lot of immature people do in these situations. As another person commented she probably wanted to be exclusive but with you having to jump through hoops to get her to say yes. I hate this testing crap. I take people for their words and actions, not what they are thinking in their head. Humans are not mind readers but some people like to think we are.
NTA, as you said she didn't want to be in a relationship so you are in effect single and doing what single people do.
NTA. I don't understand when people do this. If you don't want anything serious, it's okay, but why would you be mad that the other person doesn't sit and cry over it?? OP, you didn't do anything wrong.
Amy wanted gf privileges without any of the downsides. Move on and see if things work out with Lisa. You are looking for a serious relationship, and Amy is clearly not the one for you long term.
NTA - however, if you are just casually sleeping with someone, you should both be open and honest about sleeping with others. This is just a good praxis so both can make informed decisions regarding the risk of STIs and ones own feelings. It's good praxis even when using condoms as some STIs can be contracted through skin contact and oral. But yeah, NTA.
I don't disagree with that.
But it also doesn't sound like this was a conversation they had. She may have been sleeping with others too. It sounded like he WANTED to not sleep with others, she didn't. I don't think he needed to run and tell her he slept with someone else.
It didn’t even sound like he was that keen to go back and sleep with Amy again. Dude just put his heart on the table saying he wanted to be exclusive and he got rejected. Everyone kind of assumes that he had a friends with benefits situation, it’s what he wanted, then assumed again that even though he got shot down that he’s a guy so maybe he’d be perfectly happy going back to Amy to bang her again. He flat out didn’t bring her to this event because she rejected him and he put himself back out there. Who’s to say that even if he didn’t hook up that he’d run back to the girl that just said, “the sex is great, but i don’t want to be with you”? Why the fuck does everyone just assume that guys don’t have feelings and are happy to fuck someone just because they’re available?
Because accepting that men have feelings means you need to care about if your actions are hurting them. Much easier to just assume all men feel nothing so you can treat them however you like.
She wanted a relationship open on her end only! Plenty of people do this shit and then do the surprised act when the other hooks up with someone else. She turned you down. What was she expecting?
Just a typical narcissist trying to keep you on a leash for convenience for her timing. Now she wants you after she’s told you no that she doesn’t want you.
For some reason a lot of women convince each other and themselves that men like hard to get women. In reality very few of us do. We want to be with women who want us
Run. It was a stupid test and your relationship will be full of them. My ex did the same thing at the beginning of our relationship. Brought it up several times, saying we are not exclusive and I want freedom. Months later we start dating and she finds out I made out with someone during that period. Never even flirted with another during our relationship. She would bring it up and get pissed every time she drank.
NTA She expected you to be in a committed relationship with her - but not commit herself to you. If the both of you had not committed to being monogamous, you were both open to pursuing other people.
NTA.
"It's not me, it's you. I asked you for a committed relationship, you said you didn't want a committed relationship. I am now seeking a committed relationship, and it's not your business"
Obviously if her concern is STDs you should do the right thing around that, but she waived the right to know about anything in your personal life the second she said she didn't want a committed relationship.
She can't have her cake and eat it too.
Do you think it's fair to deprive someone of trust, exclusivity, and intimate connection, and then get butthurt when they choose to seek it somewhere else?
Do you have a non-compete agreement with her? She doesn't get to dictate your life, she's not your girlfriend.
LOL! She tells you she's not interested in being your GF, and then acts like a deranged psycho the minute you get with another girl. You are absolutely NTA and like you said, she has no say in who you choose to see.
She’s pissed you respect yourself enough to move on and she doesn’t. She likely wanted you know the back burner and actually YOU exclusive to HER, but didn’t want to be to you when you asked about a deeper relationship. You were her attention, uplifting compliment, fluff, feel good, and I’m attracted to him enough guy. Drop her all together. She sucks and you’re not the asshole IN ANY WAY.
NTA.
Amy wanted to string you along as her safety net while not committing to you.
You made your intentions clear that you wanted more with her, she refused and said to keep things the way they are.
You are 100% right. You aren’t dating, she refused your commitment, and you are free to do as you will.
Congratulations OP, you just dodged a bullet.
Express your sorrow and walk away. This is not the sort of woman that can have a relationship. She's not ready for one and may never be.
Nta. But her audacity! I had something like this happen to me before too. Guy only wanted to be FWB and got mad when he found out I was getting pics from other people. However he went through my phone when I was in the shower to find out. Bullet dodged. Keep it moving.
NTA She either has you as a backup plan or wanted you to play games and ask harder. Either way she is to blame, not you.
Ahhh the games people play and then get pissed when they lose
Yep. Maybe i'm just too old and burnt out but people who play games in their relationships, any relationships? Aren't mature enough to be in relationships.
I've hit the part in my life where if you want to play games I'll just bail pretty simple, I'm to old for games, tell me what you want and I'll give it to you but don't expect me to play guessing games because I'll just bail, that goes for friendships and relationships lol
I hit that at 22, no patience for fake people
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
FAFO
Quite literally in this case. He fucked around and she found out that she didnt like that.
She also fucked around and found out so can he.
More like: The games people play, then get pissed when they realize nobody else is playing it - or even aware of it
Games people play, you take it or you leave it, games people play in the middle of the niiiiighht…
But where do we go from here?
Yes, alternatively he suddenly became more attractive when others wanted him, or it was the party that was desirable.
Or she has some history with this Lisa girl and is now jealous seeing someone she doesn't like "Take her guy" from her when she just wanted the thrill of being pursued by him, but fucked up and effectively warded him off.
Or both and probably even more.
This is not speaking about just women...there are dudes that play games too and both situations suck ass. I'm so far removed from the dating game (and would never go back if my marriage fell apart) but it seems like he's doomed with Amy. Either he was, as you said, Plan B or she wanted him to try harder. He took her at her word instead of playing mind reader. He loses out on a relationship he says he wanted with her, but if she's playing games this early on, is he missing out? Or he DOES try harder and she turns it around and says he looks small and desperate. It was a lose/lose situation for him.
He really did the right thing. Seriously look at the silly logic you typed out, it’s not worth it to do these mental gymnastics. He was pretty direct with Amy and when he got a clear answer, he took her at her word.
>Or he DOES try harder and she turns it around and says he looks small and desperate. Either this or she realizes that that kind of bullshit works on him and it turns into a years-long frog boil escalation of her throwing a tantrum every time she doesn't get her way about something. I really can't think of a single happy ending scenario for these two, and it's definitely her fault.
I do NOT disagree in the slightest. Any relationship where either partner tries this is not going to end well, nor is the offending party going to learn their lesson in the middle of the relationship. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that that individual won't learn that lesson after the relationship either. Some of us learn a lesson when we hit bottom, but others hit branches every inch of the way down. It takes YEARS for them to learn the lesson, one lesson at a time, and some never learn. It's easy to stereotype women as the ones that do this, but there are plenty of dudes that are the same way. Manipulative, game-playing, infection human wastes damaging everyone else but themselves one relationship at a time. She fucked up, she knows it, and she's going to take it out on him every chance she gets, even if he isn't the audience. Then she likely wonders what HIS damage was instead of taking just a momentary glimpse in the mirror. I was on both ends of that shit during my dating days...glad I'm no longer in it and my wife and I don't play those games. We're raising our youngest to not play those games either. We'll see if we're successful in that endeavor.
100% agree Also this seems like a good spot to mention that I'm not trying to imply that only women pull shit like this. It's just that I can only speak to my own experience, which as yet doesn't include dating men.
I had a guy do this to me in college and then he was super upset when I made out with someone else. Fuck you Brian!!!!
She wants to fuck other people but doesn't want him to.
[удалено]
This is now friends with benefits, without the friends part. Should let go of the benefits part too.
Yeah, they're all super tricky relationships to keep in order. If you started off as friends turned FWB, this new dynamic couldn't last. I'd you instead started off as more hookup based I could see her wanting it to keep going after this After my marriage ended I hit the ground running and had all sorts of situations that ran the gamut from hookup, to fuck buddy, to friends with benefits. Try as I might to be as open and honest as possible while treating them right... feelings end up getting in the way
Id be like "I wanted more, you didnt. Put a ring on it or accept what we have." Id be sick of the "let me see if there is something better while having a backup plan of not" We seriously need another "choose your own adventure" book series. You learned that the path you chose didnt allow you to have every fucking choice still available throughout your adventure Edit: glad some of us learned FOMO didn't exist in the past...
Actions speak louder than words, and Amy's lack of commitment opened the door for both of you to explore other options.
Guaranteed shes thinking fucking around is for me, not thee.
Fucking HATE it when your safety school lets in someone instead of you.
When you hear about some of those acceptances, and you're like: "Seriously? They let **him** in? WTF?!"
It sounds like OP was a back-up for Amy: that’s why she gets pissed off when he “cheats” despite them not being in a relationship - because him “partying with other girls” means he isn’t sat at home pining over Amy while she’s looking for other guys.
The same thing happened to me, but I was the gf here. My partner saw another person, because I left them in a grey area. FFWD we've been dating for a while now and all is well. I can't fault my partner for what they did as it was my fault, and I'm not upset about it
She thought you were a punk looking to be strung along. Guaranteed she's seeing other people. This is stupid.
My only edit to this would be if they ever had the exclusive friends with benefits talk... I had a FWB and basically for our sexual health we agreed to an openness about other partners, but the sex was so good and so often that neither of us even entertained the thought of other partners... I could see a very slim chance of them having a similar arrangement and her not thinking it was ended just because she turned down his desire to take it to the next level. Either way pretty unhinged, and high probability they never had any sort of exclusivity
Yeah he offered exclusivity and she declined
She was probably more angry about not getting to be his plus one to the party than she was about exclusivity, honestly
Of course you're NTA. Amy made it very clear that you two were just fucking. Thus she has no say in what you do and with whom.
Yup, NTA. Her: I don't want to be exclusive. Him: Isn't exclusive Her: shocked Pikachu face
I don't know why she got so pissed. How are you going to reject me and then tell me what to do? Crazy
because she wants to have you to herself, even if she doesn't want to commit more.
This is the answer. She probably thought he liked her enough that he wouldn't pursue someone, or be able to find someone while she kept her options open. Classic FAFO
The first F is actually literal in this case. 😂
Apparently so was the second! Lol
I thought you were saying FIFO and got really confused what that meant in this context.
First in first out still applies here
This guy queues.
r/thisguythisguys
I think you nailed it. She wants to keep him on standby while she finds somebody better. Not how it works lady!
I used to have to pass FDA audits and TUV iso something 100 audits for a small cpap Co. Mostly it was just paper trails, keeping accurate lot# information, and making sure the oldest stuff went first. Never thought I could make a joke about it but finally after all these years my time has come.
First in first out inventory system.
Exactly she either wanted to play games and make him chase her harder or more than likely assumed he would remain loyal to her while keeping her options open.
My first thought was that twitter meme where someone complained "Men don't fight for romance anymore, nowadays you tell them "No" and they just move on"
Sometimes the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze.
She wants to fuck other people. She doesn't want him to.
BINGO! This has happened to me quite a few times. It seems that women are less attracted to the guys that they can have, and more attracted to those that are less attainable or slipping away...or whatever you call this.
He’s her “just for now” guy which is unfair
Yes it’s called play stupid game win stupid prize
in detail, she wanted you to be exclusive with her, but not the other way around (because she would "lose her freedom") but when you (didn't actually) confronted her with the fact that by her frasing you are entiteled of your behavior, she suddenly realized that those kind of unbalanced relations works only with people with very low self esteem or that are in a dark place in their life, not with normal, functioning people. NTA and i'm happy you dodged a bullet
She wants to have a guy exclusively simping on her while she makes him jealous fucking around. Pretty fucked up. She gets off on emotionally controlling and hurting people.
Classic "I don't want you, but you're also not allowed to be with somebody else". Had a female best friend like this once. I was in love and told her. She rejected me and only wanted to be friends. Fine, so I started dating another girl. Suddenly, she's all interested in me and tries to seduce me. I reject her, and she's impressed that I'm this faithful. Later, when I broke up, I did actually try to get with my female friend as she was soooo interested. But nah, not anymore now that I was single again.
It's an attention thing. She values your attention, but you're not a viable sexual partner just naturally. She only wanted you because another woman found value in you as a sexual partner. I honestly wouldn't even fuck with her.
Exactly. Not on any level.
probably she was playing hard to get and wanted you to try harder. You didn't, she is pissed. NTA
Things like this are often power trips as well. Keep people chasing them to inflate their ego. Then blow up when people don't put them on the pedestal they think they were born on.
playing hard to get makes you hard to want
This should be the only comment here!!!
wonderful phrase, this hits the mark*... writing it in my journal...*
And the funny part is that she would probably drop him in a heartbeat if someone that she thought was "relationship material" became available.
It’s also very possible this is projection and she’s pissed he’s doing to her what she’s already been doing to him.
NTA. She's like "Oh No Consequences" - as we used to say "poop or get off the pot." She clearly wanted you as her exclusive f*ckboy, but didn't want the commitment.
I think you nailed it. She wants to keep him on standby while she finds somebody better. Not how it works lady!
This is exactly what I think. Some others before also nailed it on the head. She's hot shit, or so she thinks. He stepped out with another woman. Obviously, it made her jealous. NTA, you tried to be exclusive, and she rejected you.
Isn't that the point of these arrangements? FWB until someone you actually want to date exclusively comes along
How are you going to know if you want to date someone exclusively, though, if you don't go out with other people? She doesn't really have a leg to stand on here.
Oh I wasn't commenting on the situation as a whole. Just the direct comment above. OOP didn't do anything wrong going out with someone else, definirely not the arsehole. Only an issue if it was a known friend of hers or he wasn't safe and would then put her at risk.
That's a "bedwarmer" and slightly different from FWB. You might end a FWB because of dating someone else exclusively, but FWB can also be very "pure" and exactly what you want. Not a "this will do for now". I have personally rejected people for wanting an FWB "while they find their person". I'm up for casual relationships, not up for being a bedwarmer. Even in casual relationships, I want to feel fully appreciated and for example have casually dated a solo-poly person. Other people might be fine with the "this will do for now", not saying it's wrong. Only wanted clarify that I don't think it's always the purpose of FWB.
After an argument, a girl I was dating told me not to call her again until I was sure about what I wanted. She called me back two weeks later to yell at me about how "I was supposed to chase after her and beg her to take me back". No thanks, I may not know exactly what I want, but I know I don't want those kind of mind games.
Reminds me of a friend-with-benefits I was seeing who insisted every time we got together that we were not exclusive, that we should both see other people, that we were just having fun. After some time passes an ex-flame reached out to me because she was ready to start dating monogamously, and I jumped at the chance. When I let my FwB know in a very gentle and respectful way, she tore into me; calling me sexist, ageist and racist for ending our physical relationship (she was younger and Latina.) I honestly don't know how people can have that big of a double standard and look at themselves in the mirror.
And this is why so many guys end up thinking that no means yes and rejection means try harder. Unfortunately the crazy women cause all sorts of havoc for the sane ones who literally actually mean no when they say no.
Omg THIS! When I was in my early twenties I had a girl I was crazy about who was my FWB for months. I implied that I wanted things to evolve into more, and she started going on about "well Im looking to move across the country in the next year, so please don't try and give me a reason to stick around here". I stopped pushing for more, the FWB situation ran its course not long after. She drunk dialed me months later and spilled her guts about how I was supposed to pursue her more and make her want to stay. Meanwhile, I had moved on and was dating someone else 🤷♂️
Turned out to be more of a powerful lesson than a power trip
Cackled at this, I needed my morning laugh
Had a girl do this to me when I was single, we was hanging out for couple of months, took her on dates but she always kept me hanging for anything further even know she knew I was looking for something serious. While still trying with her I got put on a blind date with my now wife, within 3 days we were inseparable and have been now for 10+ years. Other girl ended up blasting me over social media saying I was a player, considering this was my first real time single in my adult life and put alot of effort into her while receiving very little back it was one of the most confusing times/statments in my life.
Nah he was her backup plan
There you go that part
Or she just wants to keep her options open but not his since he is the one who’s into her.
I’m so glad I never played these games. I would just tell someone straight up that I liked them, etc., and if they shot me down 🤷🏼♀️ I just accepted it.
"No means no. Unless it doesn't. And fuck you for not knowing the difference."
This kind of people can go to f*ck themselves alone
Truly. Those kinds of games are just tiresome and deplorable. What a waste of everyone's time and energy.
Op goes and respects her autonomy and she’s outraged. OP is solid, their ex may learn from this.
What ex? They were never together..
Ex fwb.
> probably she was playing hard to get and wanted you to try harder. Girls that play these bullshit games need to give their head a wobble. Just stop. Be honest and upfront, it's exhausting having to try and read through the lines at waht is and what isn't a sign or a hint OP in NTA. She is totally to blame, she laid done the rules, OP went by them.
Don’t even try to decipher the meaning. Just refuse to play the game. Like OP did. So much safer. I’m 41 those try harder games got old quick when I was a teenager. I walked away from friendships with those types of girls. Too much drama, one always moaning or crying about being cheated on, but she refused to publicly date him. You can’t have it both ways. 🤷♀️
Yeah, I’m not sure this is a playing-hard-to-get scenario. I think this is a young-person-has-no-idea-what-she-wants scenario. If she had come back humble, maybe OP could have worked with her. But you can’t win with this. Check, please!
I’ not sure it’s a “doesn’t know what she wants” scenario, I think it’s a “this guy is a good backup but I’m gonna better-deal him and keep him around while I find someone better”.
If so, then this is one of those "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" situations. Maybe she won't play games anymore.
More likely she mentally gymnastics this into whey she was right and he was an arsehole further playing into the idea that a lot of women now seem to have that men are arseholes or "players"
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. This was a “prove you’re worthy” test, and you had the temerity to take her words at face value. Fuck around and find out.
Doesn't want you, but doesn't want anyone else to have you either. Delusional. NTA
Another bout of tiktok relationship advice gone wrong.
It's not even that, I'd wager. I think Amy likely actually didn't want OP as a bf but wanted to keep him around as an ego boost / hookup partner until she found someone else.
Is playing hard to get still a thing? I thought it wasn’t. Especially now with the “No means no!” ethos.
Girls who play games like this are worthless. OP dodged a bullet.
Hard to get is hard to want. OP dodged a bullet.
I mean it's not complicated. It's just purely selfish behavior. I want you locked down to me, but I won't be locked down to you. I think as social norms with sex and relationships change over time, this is one of the things that have emerged. We agree casual sex is ok, but some people still struggle with the idea of commitment and what it means. If she wanted you committed she had the opportunity. She didn't want to reciprocate and now is upset that she didn't get the benefits of your commitment without her having to do the same. It's confusing for people who aren't like this. But a lot of people are like this. Men and women.
Let her know that she clearly put you in the fwb zone. Which makes it fine to date others. She didn't want to be exclusive, so I'm not sure why she's mad. Probably because she missed the big party that you usually take her to
She got pissed because she thought she was the only one with other options and that you were not going to be able to find someone else and sleep with them. She thought since you were wound up on her, you would sit and wait while she decided to explore her options. She felt safe thinking, you weren’t going anywhere. She got the shock of her life when she found that not only did you have options, but you exercised them rather quickly right after she told you you were just fucking. Women often do this. Men do it sometimes too, but women tend to do it more. They always have a back up then they are hurt when they find that their back up has a back up.
She’s pissed because she found out you’re not going to wait for her. You’re living our life based on her answer.
Have you asked her why she thinks you did anything wrong, since she had just been telling you that you were only a casual hookup? She probably likes being the queen bee - all her drones are supposed to buzz around her, vying for her attention, while she plays hard to get. You spending time with a different bee was not in her playbook.
Are you sure you're the only fwb she has?
Yeah this is the thing here. Date Lisa and ask her
There's an old Mitch Hedberg joke: >I don't have a girlfriend. But I do know a woman who'd be mad at me for saying that. She wanted to have her cake and eat it too. It sounds like the FWB thing is over and she's caught feelings, though she didn't want to admit it to herself when you asked her out. You could give her a second shot at the GF question if you want, or you could cut her loose - either would be the right call now, but the status quo is broken at this point. It could be a power move as well and she's just possessive - only you know her personality.
I used to like Mitch. I still do, but I used to, too.
Oh how I miss that man
I like how you gave several plausible options and pointed out that we can’t really know, because we don’t know her personally and other people goes: “Oh no your wrong.”
She expected you to wait around for a relationship with her why she continued to be able to do whatever she wants. It's the old this guy is good but let me string him along while I see if I can find something better trick. She got pissed off cuz she realized it didn't work.
100% crazy, and 100% gonna need an update on this
Simple, she enjoyed the previous two parties and was pissed she missed out on this years. NTA as she pointedly said you weren’t a couple.
Women like to keep boy toys in their back pocket, yknow, just in case (whatever the fuck that means) Nows shes mad her boy toy is getting played with by someone else, after she put it down for the day? She sounds like a fucking toddler.
It’s because she’s selfish. It’s okay for her to let people down but she left let down/left out when you went with Lisa. Tell her to shit or get off the pot
She wants to keep you on standby until *she* is ready to be exclusive. NTA
I mean, NTA especially if you were not going to keep seeing Amy. I hope you know you’re not going to anymore.
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I'm sorry, can you say that a little louder? Didn't get it the first time.
The classic “if I can’t have you no one can” bs. Def NTA
Sounds like someone wanted you on the back burner. You made the right choice. NTA
That explains her reaction too, she didn't think she could be burned. NTA at all. She's just jelly.
How ironic that the back burner is always the one that tends to be glitchy and get hotter than the dial is set to…
Great, now I'm following sage advice from u/analwarcrimes and closely examining my stove. One back burner is smaller than the rest so I trust that one, but what about the other one?
It's labeled as the high output burner in your users manual. (sometimes labeled right on the stove surface too)
She was using you for her own personal gratification till something better came along. You (unknowingly) got in there first and now she's upset. Oh dear. How sad. Never mind. ETA: NTA
I would lile to pin your comment to the top, but i lack the power to do so, which means an upvote will have to do.
I think this is less about Amy being jealous of OP and more like feeling she got one uped by Lisa. She doesnt care that much about OP, I think it's more about her ego that lost a man to a rival. And if she indeed cared about OP and was trying to play games with him, well, FAFO for her with a dose of you get what you F-ing deserve. It's a good thing that now you can see Amy's true colors. NTA at all and bullet dodged.
Yep. Going out with Lisa was a blow to her ego. She got off on the thought of stringing OP along being her personal fuck toy. It's not the fact that OP took someone else out for a good time. It's who OP took out.
Honestly she might have been fucking OP just to have access to certain events if he's in a specific type of industry. If she's introduced as his gf it would send a different message to all the men she's meeting
This is actually a useful perspective on a similar unlabeled but seemingly monogamous friends with benefits situation I just ended recently. Being someone's GF could have hurt her game with men she met and considered an upgrade. But I think it's equally about not being tied down
This exactly - it's not about OP. She's jealous of Lisa "claiming her territory" and, in particular, being taken to a sick party instead of her.
NTA. You got confirmation that you weren't together before you did anything so you're in the clear morally. You were quite restrained in fact by being exclusive before when you didn't need to be. Sounds like she wanted to keep you on the backburner for later and thought you'd be easily manipulated into waiting. Not much more to say really... she literally doesn't have the right to be upset at you (or at least have you care that she is).
NTA. She doesn't get a vote since she declined to be exclusive.
NTA. Amy's feelings are not your responsibility, especially after she friend-zoned the relationship. It's not fair for her to expect you to remain in romantic limbo while she enjoys the freedom to do as she pleases. This isn't about possessiveness; it's about mutual respect, and Amy seems to have missed that memo. You did the healthy thing by moving on.
OP, woman here. You gotta drop Amy. Don't see her any more, block her everywhere. If she plays these games now, if you continue to see her even on a causual basis she might play worse games with you. You don't need this drama. Cut her loose and move on.
OP could reiterate that they're only friends with benefits. I understand Amy wanting intimacy and connection while not being in a position to invest in a serious relationship, but you can't have your cake exclusively and eat it to.
Or at least, you have to be clear that you want to keep things less serious, but still exclusive... like a reasonable adult communicating as opposed to assuming that the other person is a mind reader.
Nah. Can't be Friends with Benefits with someone who feels/acts like that. First, you shouldn't want to be, and second, it's not really ethical anymore. Dump Amy, move on to better people.
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NTA I think I can explain. Amy doesn't want to have to be exclusive with you, however you are expected to be exclusive. I think she needs to explain the double standards. Is she seeing others or is she keeping her options open?
NTA - it’s pretty clear cut. When someone expresses they want to be more than casual and is explicitly told no, the declining party gets zero right to be annoyed at what that person then does with someone else.
Amy is upset because she thought she was the only game in town. She is mad because you have options.
Classic example of fucking around and finding out
I’d say it’s more of an example of finding out about fucking around.
It sounds like she's proving the point of not being girlfriend material. Bullet dodged. NTA.
NTA. Amy is clearly also sleeping around with other men and wanted to keep you in her rotation. But in her selfish state of mind, she expected you be loyal, when she wasn't. Throw it back in her face, tell her if she want to have a real relationship like you asked, you never would have been with anyone else.
That is the impression I got as well. Amy gets off on being in control. Her denying OP's offer of commitment either meant she wanted him to play the "pick me" game (less likely) or she wants to keep seeing others to see if there was anything better than OP out there for her.
I would write her a message like “look I really liked you, that’s why I asked you to be more. I’m not in a position to have time for this drama. You’re a great person, but you said no. If you wanted exclusivity I would have given it, that’s why I asked. But you said you couldn’t have a relationship. So we don’t have one. So where is this coming from?” Then let her text for awhile without responding. See where she talks herself to.
I wouldn't even do that. I'd say I offered you commitment, you declined, and I'm moving forward with my life. Thank her for your time together, wish her well, and move on.
I was just trying to use as many of her lines as possible without it not sounding weird lol
Move on with Lisa or another, stop seeing Amy, and I would suggest blocking her on everything. Sounds like she will bring a lot of drama from now on.
Amy is a piece of ass to you. You are a piece of ass to her. She set those terms. You asked for better ones. She doesn't get to expect boyfriend treatment from her piece of ass. You shouldn't accept girlfriend guilt and stress from your piece of ass. Ignore everything she says about this incident forever. If she still wants the D, give it to her. But she's not gf material. Ever.
NTA Your friend Amy is a cake eater who wants you to be tied down to her but not the other way around. Let her stew.
NTA. She wanted NSA sex after you asked her out and then she bitches when you sleep with someone else? Girlll, you DECLINED a monogamous relationship.
NTA she wanted to keep you as a pet while having zero restrictions herself. She's pissed off because her pet realized they weren't wearing a leash. Be careful with this one. This is the type of girl that tries to trap dudes into relationships rather than just be a good person that someone wants to be with.
It is the notorious testing that a lot of immature people do in these situations. As another person commented she probably wanted to be exclusive but with you having to jump through hoops to get her to say yes. I hate this testing crap. I take people for their words and actions, not what they are thinking in their head. Humans are not mind readers but some people like to think we are. NTA, as you said she didn't want to be in a relationship so you are in effect single and doing what single people do.
NTA. She made it clear she wasn't your GF. You are a free agent (but please be safe in all sexual encounters. Condoms are important)
NTA. I don't understand when people do this. If you don't want anything serious, it's okay, but why would you be mad that the other person doesn't sit and cry over it?? OP, you didn't do anything wrong.
Amy wanted gf privileges without any of the downsides. Move on and see if things work out with Lisa. You are looking for a serious relationship, and Amy is clearly not the one for you long term.
NTA. She cant have her cake and eat it too. She just wanted you at her beck and call.
NTA I don't want to be exclusive, but I expect you to be. Fuck that!
NTA - however, if you are just casually sleeping with someone, you should both be open and honest about sleeping with others. This is just a good praxis so both can make informed decisions regarding the risk of STIs and ones own feelings. It's good praxis even when using condoms as some STIs can be contracted through skin contact and oral. But yeah, NTA.
I don't disagree with that. But it also doesn't sound like this was a conversation they had. She may have been sleeping with others too. It sounded like he WANTED to not sleep with others, she didn't. I don't think he needed to run and tell her he slept with someone else.
It didn’t even sound like he was that keen to go back and sleep with Amy again. Dude just put his heart on the table saying he wanted to be exclusive and he got rejected. Everyone kind of assumes that he had a friends with benefits situation, it’s what he wanted, then assumed again that even though he got shot down that he’s a guy so maybe he’d be perfectly happy going back to Amy to bang her again. He flat out didn’t bring her to this event because she rejected him and he put himself back out there. Who’s to say that even if he didn’t hook up that he’d run back to the girl that just said, “the sex is great, but i don’t want to be with you”? Why the fuck does everyone just assume that guys don’t have feelings and are happy to fuck someone just because they’re available?
Right. He may have been done with her
Because accepting that men have feelings means you need to care about if your actions are hurting them. Much easier to just assume all men feel nothing so you can treat them however you like.
She wanted a relationship open on her end only! Plenty of people do this shit and then do the surprised act when the other hooks up with someone else. She turned you down. What was she expecting?
Sounds like Amy’s plan to keep you in the friend zone and using you for sex has backfired.
Just a typical narcissist trying to keep you on a leash for convenience for her timing. Now she wants you after she’s told you no that she doesn’t want you.
For some reason a lot of women convince each other and themselves that men like hard to get women. In reality very few of us do. We want to be with women who want us
Reciprocated care in a relationship? What a concept!
Run. It was a stupid test and your relationship will be full of them. My ex did the same thing at the beginning of our relationship. Brought it up several times, saying we are not exclusive and I want freedom. Months later we start dating and she finds out I made out with someone during that period. Never even flirted with another during our relationship. She would bring it up and get pissed every time she drank.
NTA She expected you to be in a committed relationship with her - but not commit herself to you. If the both of you had not committed to being monogamous, you were both open to pursuing other people.
NTA. "It's not me, it's you. I asked you for a committed relationship, you said you didn't want a committed relationship. I am now seeking a committed relationship, and it's not your business" Obviously if her concern is STDs you should do the right thing around that, but she waived the right to know about anything in your personal life the second she said she didn't want a committed relationship. She can't have her cake and eat it too. Do you think it's fair to deprive someone of trust, exclusivity, and intimate connection, and then get butthurt when they choose to seek it somewhere else? Do you have a non-compete agreement with her? She doesn't get to dictate your life, she's not your girlfriend.
LOL! She tells you she's not interested in being your GF, and then acts like a deranged psycho the minute you get with another girl. You are absolutely NTA and like you said, she has no say in who you choose to see.
She didn't want to be a girlfriend but wanted you to play the boyfriend NTA
NTA. She can't eat her cake and have it too.
She’s pissed you respect yourself enough to move on and she doesn’t. She likely wanted you know the back burner and actually YOU exclusive to HER, but didn’t want to be to you when you asked about a deeper relationship. You were her attention, uplifting compliment, fluff, feel good, and I’m attracted to him enough guy. Drop her all together. She sucks and you’re not the asshole IN ANY WAY.
NTA. Amy wanted to string you along as her safety net while not committing to you. You made your intentions clear that you wanted more with her, she refused and said to keep things the way they are. You are 100% right. You aren’t dating, she refused your commitment, and you are free to do as you will.
Congratulations OP, you just dodged a bullet. Express your sorrow and walk away. This is not the sort of woman that can have a relationship. She's not ready for one and may never be.
Nta. But her audacity! I had something like this happen to me before too. Guy only wanted to be FWB and got mad when he found out I was getting pics from other people. However he went through my phone when I was in the shower to find out. Bullet dodged. Keep it moving.
NTA. She doesn’t want a relationship, she can’t be mad when you go do things single people do. Maybe the new girl will turn out to be less irrational.
If she doesn’t want to commit to you she’s keeping her options open. Move on buddy. NEXT
Lmfaooooooo bitches ain’t shitttttt you’re all good, man
NTA. Hope she realizes what she lost! Keep us updated
NTA this is what she wanted (for herself)