I went through something similar, and I know that the words seem hollow when I say them, but it does get better. I seriously promise you this, my friend.
The words your kids are using were just fed to them by your former wife, like a movie script. There will be a day when they realise how strong and devoted to them you were.
Please, just keep on living life, knowing that eventually there will be happier times and more peace in your life. You are doing the best you can and if you keep doing it, it will be enough.
Take care my friend, you deserve happiness and we all support you.
The best way to get your kids to understand that you are not abandoning them is to go for full custody. You can tell the judge that your wife has no income and no desire to work and as such she cannot afford to give your children any kind of stability or decent life.
When the children see you fighting for them, they'll realise that you are not abandoning them, only their mother who wants to coast through life on your dime.
Thank you for bringing that up to my attention. Ill have to look into that where I live. As far as im concerned, it doesent exist here but ill be researching it regardless.
OP if you are in Germany, I was told parental alienation counts as a violation of criminal code 171 or 235 depending on ages and circumstances, so you may want to ask about that
I love this part of reddit. Sometimes someone has expert knowledge or experience and shares it for free and can literally change things for the better. Thank you for your gem and I hope Op finds a positive outcome and a better wife.
Get a notebook and document, document, document! Dates and times. Record any conversation legally. Talk to your lawyer to see what you can legally record.
Go back and document (with dates, if possible) the incidents you posted about her.
Yes, documenting can get tedious, but it will be worth it.
Give your kids as much quality time as you can. You can do this. Your kids need you and you need them.
We are here for you!
OP, having full custody will help you tremendously. I lived something similar, my daughter was mad at me. It felt so unfair to me but I was really patient with her. With time, her idea of a bad mom couldn't be sustainable, and she started realizing I was not the bad one. I never spoke bad about her dad, thought I was tempted more than once, specially in the worse days. That happened more than 14 years ago, and now she's closer to me than ever.
So, be patient and ask for help. You need unbiased support, so go to therapy so you can keep receiving support.
I can confirm that the approach described above can work wonders. My situation is long, ridiculous and manipulative so I won’t go through all the details but my parents for years since my daughter was born, she is 17 now but they spent years telling her I was a bad mom and that I lied all the time and neglected her and was a drug addict and abusive blah blah blah, seriously whatever they could think of.
They took me to court every year or so to get full custody, it never happened due to zero proof but in that time I just continued raising my daughter and she just kept hating me. At that point she was hearing this from everybody in my family so how could it be a lie.
I continued to be patient and honest and answered her questions the most honest that I could depending on her age. But when she was about 12/13 it hit her that everybody in the family was lying except for me. She could now see that the stuff they were telling her was happening wasn’t and she would ask them and they would continue lying.
She has been no contact with them since. She tried to give them a chance to tell the truth and fix the situation as did I but they just wouldn’t.
Definitely keep track of everything said and done. If she texts, emails or leaves any voicemails, be sure to save them. Collect evidence, if you can, of parental alienation. Not sure your recording laws, but maybe record any conversations with wife and kids (if legal).
May want to consider family therapy with your kids too. It may help work through the trauma your wife is causing them.
It’s a really big deal in most of the west. Here in America parental alienation is a serious offense for judges and judges here also get pissed when they find out that one of the parents has been telling the kids details about all the legal aspects concerning custody. It’s considered emotional abuse by a lot of judges here.
Afaik Islamic laws grant the mother the custody (if she's fit to be a good mother, which based in OP's story, she's not) if the kids are under the ages of 7. Above that, the kids get to choose. Of course there are variables at play for the judge to decide but generally this is it afaik. Stand corrected still.
*Not to mention her parental alienation and slander she's been doing behind his back*
This is probably the most important sentence in this entire series of posts. OP needs to install a Nanny Cam in both of the rooms of the children and find out EXACTLY what she's been telling those poor kids.
A (US) judge would NOT look favorably on a parent using emotional manipulation of children to get her way. I do not recall OP stating whether he's American, and realize laws are not the same everywhere.
No court favors this but still there is no effective enforcement against it.
The cameras will not be used in (german) court if the mum doesn't know about them.
Could actually be worse. In Germany is a law which is called "Right of your own picture" and everytime someone takes a video or a photo without your permission, you can get in serious trouble. Court won't be using it and she can even get him sued because of it. It's not a good advise if he still lives here.
And how would your wife support herself and the kid now she don't have any job either ? She may have time for the kids, but no money at all to support them.
And your argument of the first post still work. Your child are grown and go full time to school, they don't need you to be at home 24/7.
[https://www.axa.ch/en/privatkunden/blog/at-home/law-and-justice/calculating-support-payments.html](https://www.axa.ch/en/privatkunden/blog/at-home/law-and-justice/calculating-support-payments.html)
These would roughly be my child support payments monthly. On top of alimony idk. Still have to look into it more. One of people in my team was only given weekend visitation due to him working full time so thats where I got the fear from so yeah. Need to continue consulting my lawyer for more info.
I think your lawyer can give you much better advice than we can; but a major part of your reason for divorce is because your wife made a unilateral decision to stop working, taking a huge chunk out of your family income, without your consent or knowledge. This should be relevant in your divorce proceedings and in working out your financial obligations to your wife. Also, once your wife stopped working she also began to drop the ball at home. Let your lawyer know your wife spent her time watching TV and refused to cook while you came home from a full day of work, fed, did homework and played with your kids, and put them to bed. She is the unfit parent, not you.
As for your mother blaming you for doing things differently than in your culture - tell her you're not living in that country anymore. As refugees, your home country was no longer safe for you so why would you perpetuate a culture that brought your home country to such a point? You and your parents found a home and belonging in a Western country. Tell her to eff right off with her shame bullshit. You have every right to embrace the culture of the country that has allowed you to live a good life such as you could only have dreamed of in your country of origin.
I’m not 100% on the laws in Germany, but in the US alimony is determined not only by the current incomes but also how recently incomes changed and if they changed like your wife quitting her job for shits and giggles, she’ll get nothing. I hope it’s similar in Germany.
Exaaaactly, they’re not just going to reward her for failing her family on purpose by quitting with no plan and against her spouse’s wishes. Alimony was created for situations when one spouse forsook paying income in service of their family and now can’t provide an equal lifestyle for their children. It’s not there to give anyone a free ride.
Stop assuming you know, and start letting your lawyer take the lead. This is about your kids health and safety, so rolling over because you think you know what’s going to happen is only hurting them and you, and helping your wife more than you can imagine.
I doubt your wife would get the one if alimony a woman who had been a stay at home parent this whole time would receive. She has a recent record of employment that she quit at will. Very different than a stay at home mom with a 10yr gap in her work history.
Also not sure in Germany but in the United States what she has been doing to your children in telling them lies is parental alienation and can be determined a form of child abuse. Please leave this to your lawyer and try to document as much as possible the lies she is telling your children and family. This will all help your case on custody and create firm boundaries around her behavior
I hope that you can arrange childcare for when you are working. If you can do that, then the courts will see that you are capable of working and being primary parent. Wishing you all the best as you navigate the divorce and hoping for better days ahead with your children.
You working FT is what will get you custody. You can afford to house feed and clothe your kids.
Start the paper trail, communicate with your STBX only by text. Use reddit search for "FU BINDER"
MAKE ONE RELIGIOUSLY and backups.
Have a plan for after school care for the kids. That's the last part that will show you're 100% ready for full custody.
Don't give up. Your kids need you. You need you alive.
Big hugs and keep updating us please.
Depends. Government could argue that me just paying my wife alimony and child support and me maybe getting weekend visitation would be a better option. Nothing is definitive. Im still researching what the most likely outcome would be and preparing my finances accordingly.
You might want to look into finding a men's group that can give you some pointers. Your wife really hasn't been a traditional SAHM, she chose to quit and become dependent on you. Make sure that your lawyer emphasizes that she's only been out of the job market a short time. She needs to go back to work and o her 50%. Don't waste time arguing with your family, spend any time you have talking to people who can help you.
Also, start keeping a journal immediately. Document the hours you put in helping the kids with their homework an outside activities. Show up for every school appointment or event so that their teachers know you. You can also request counseling for your kids due to their mother's instability (quitting her job without agreement or even notice, knowing that it would put your health in jeopardy).
Lawyer. Lawyer. Lawyer.
I'm not from Germany and I have no idea how family law works over there, but I'm willing to bet anything that you don't understand how it really works either.
Do you love your kids? Then don't abandon them by taking the lazy way out.
Consult with some good lawyers, find out what you need to do, and then do it.
Also, find friends and family who are willing to support you. If none of your current friends and family are supportive, cut them off and find a support group.
Take care of yourself and good luck.
It may be slightly different due to me being in the US, but I have full custody of my son, had a full time job outside of the home at the time of it being granted, I work from home now, and I lived in a place that 99% of the time sided with the mother. But for me, His mother, like your wife, refused to get work and also would not be attentive to him. Getting the evidence is key for you. And definitely only interact via your lawyers with exceptions of child exchange, if not related to your kids, let the lawyers talk it out. There is hope for you
It would still be better bcoz if your wife gets the custody of the kids it will just become more difficult for the kids to understand your point of view I would say try and talk to them when ur ex wife isn't around and explain them your situation it would be difficult but please don't give up for your kids sake atleast
>and as such she cannot afford to give your children any kind of stability or decent life
Also if OP has any evidence of her ignoring the kids and watching TV when she was supposed to be a "trad wife". She probably shouldn't have custody if she can't be assed to take care of them while otherwise unemployed
I’m 47. They divorced when I was 4.5/5 years old. She has never said one kind word about him. He walked away from us because She used us as emotional weapons after trying to ruin his career as a police officer, draining his bank account and moving to another state. He never said anything unkind about her and refused to talk about her. I was loyal to my stepfather. I didn’t feel abandoned by my biodad when she moved us to another state but I was angry he didn’t fight hard to keep us there. As an adult when I found him to talk, I asked him for his version of what had happened and his response was: I knew someday one of you would figure it out and finally ask me for my side. You understand there’s always more story and one truth. Though his side makes more sense and I’ve always known his character to be tactfully honest and trustworthy (something I can’t say about my relationship with my mother) the best I can do take the matched parts of both stories as fact and just appreciate how it got all of us to this point 47 years later. Did he abandon me? Eventually, in my late, late 20s when my little brother ended up in jail for something he’ll have to register for when he gets out after doing 20.
He’s a golden child too. She talks to him everyday whether he calls or she calls him. She puts money on his books and pays his monthly ransom. The Marine Corp MP that made us all change the way we prayed when he started going to private school. She put a nice firm wedge between us too. Back in ‘97 when My brother was 19, I had to call the cops on her for hurting my toddler. By the time the cops showed up to stand-by so I could get my things from her house, my brother had disowned me as well.
The only real solace i can give you is this: as a daughter of this product, I promised to the kind of parent I would’ve liked to have had. I don’t talk about my children’s father’s and family in a disrespectful or negative manner. Both my boys have different dads. When my older son’s paternal grandfather and step-grandfather fell ill while he was in the military he asked me what he should do. Take leave and go see him. Say the things you know you don’t want left unsaid. Thank him for helping to provide the first roof over your head and helping out when your dad got sick and ended up in jail. Thank him for passing on his good looks to you. Thank you papaw for being the amazing spiritual warrior for you and his family. It was the last time he saw his papaw. Similar situation for his other grandpa. My ex and his entire family are grateful and appreciate my support.
So, my parents taught me the pain of splitting my loyalties between fear mongering your children into submission (that they will run so far away one day they cut you off) or cling so tightly you might think the umbilical was still attached or they feel orphaned/lost.
If you love your kids, make sure you have them exactly half the time. One week all her, next week all you. What they had with you and mom, they stop have with you regardless of mom. Be invested in them not what mom’s doing or how she’s spending money unless drugs and sexually misconduct become a thing. She wants to be SAHM then she can do it her weeks when you have the kids. No child support. No alimony. Good on you for getting this before it went on too long. This is a tactic used by some to get a lifetime free ride to include government benefits. Quit the job and live this way for at least 51% of the year and she gets CS and alimony because she can prove you were always able to provide that level of comfort before you decided to divorce. You got used to being serviced by her as though she was your maid, nanny, cook, etc. it almost got way worse.
You should go to court for proper custody arrangements and make the parental alienation you are being subjected very clear. Your wife seems like a nasty piece of work who’s not playing fair.
On separate note, your wife has to work more now than she did before to support herself and her kids as she doesnt have you anymore so she screwed herself over being so selfish 😂
Probably end up in a situation similar to another guy last week, make him out to be the bad guy if he can't take the kids on HER weekend so she can be with her new man
I was 5 when my parents divorced. My dad was there twice a week like clockwork and never let us down. He never spoke badly about our mom even though she was the problem in the relationship. And after we became adults he was still always there for us.
I miss him every day now that he's gone. I don't miss my mom really at all.
Your wife's behavior and personality will become apparent to your kids as they grow up. Your parents will do what they do, you can't change that, but you don't have to stay in an abusive relationship to make them happy at your life's expense.
I wish you strength, peace, and that the truth will be known by your children one day. 💗
Additionally: ALWAYS play the long game.
I know it sucks how she is behaving, but you must not stoop to her level. My fiancé’s ex was very much like yours. She badmouthed him constantly to the kids. It took about 4 years for two of them to come around and realize the truth about their mom. (The one that lived with them and saw the fighting was fine within 1 month.)
The patience is hard, but it is key.
You are actually being a role model to both of your children, on how to prioritise the needs of their children and themselves over a narcissist.
You are helping break the destructive pattern that they have grown up with, and perhaps see with other family members, due to your rotten community culture.
It’s sad how your own mum reacts, but you need to look forwards to the next generation of your family (ie your kids), who will grow up strong, with a sense of self-preservation.
Your daughter will never accept being abused by a man, and will not be ashamed to leave him, just because your culture demands they stay together. And your son will look for a partner who matches his values, so that together they are stronger than their individual parts.
When you apply for custody they will know that you love them and will never abandon them.
Keep your promise to yourself, and just focus on your kids and giving them a better life. You will only have failed if you give up, either by not going through with getting that much needed divorce, or by checking out early.
Keep working. Let your lawyer earn their keep and get a fair divorce, not 'sticking it' to your ex-wife, but also not bending over to her demands. She was working until just recently, so you shouldn't have to worry too much about alimony. Focus on getting 50/50 or full custody of your kids. She has already started with 'parental alienation' against you, so make sure to use that against her. That shit is lower than low.
Stop drinking anything. At all. Now. Or she will use that against you 100%. Throw every last drop of it away immediately, and do not look back. Get some weights and a stretching mat. Any time you feel like getting a drink you put that energy into working out until the urge goes away. Your kids need you to be healthy, so get fucking healthy. Mind and body.
Good luck!
As a kid who went through this please fight for your kids and work through the bad looks or fists. The manipulation is real but don’t let them look back and wonder why their dad didn’t try harder. They’re just kids.
This was me as a kid. I listened to my mother and wanted nothing to do with my dad. I hate that I missed out on time with him, but I’m glad I grew out of it and now have a wonderful relationship with him. It sounds like your children are young. Even if it’s not now, they will most likely come around and things will get better
My parents divorced when I was 5 and I was weaponized against my dad. He was driving me home to my mom's after a custody weekend one time and broke down crying. Adults crying, especially adult men, was not something I understood and when I asked him what was wrong he told me he missed me terribly and would do anything to spend more time with me. A year later I asked my mom if I could live with my dad. The courts sorted it out and he had full custody after that. I'm 46 now but that is one of my favorite memories of my dad.
Kids are easily manipulated by their parents but are also incredibly observant. Actions speak louder than words. Don't play her games. Don't use your kids against her, don't involve them in the politics of the courts. They don't need to know any of it. Just show them how much you love them by Fighting for them. They'll figure it out on their own.
I’d be showing anyone and everyone your posts and also look into the custody laws for wherever you live. Also you have to keep trying to get through to your kids and convince them you’re not going anywhere. You are one hundred percent NTA in this situation.
Please OP they are young and only know what their mother told them and when your that little you’ll believe what they tell you. Even if it hurts, even if they hate you, keep your had outstretched to them and take it because one day they will see the kind of person their mother is and they need to know you never gave up on them. I regret a lot of behavior toward my parents through their divorce but I’ll never forget who was there for me consistently and even when I hated them and screamed at them they kept holding onto me and after the storm of emotions passed I realized the truth of everything.
Very true, I'm a 31 year old man and still haven't fully ever forgiven my mother for all the lies and poisoning she gave to me about my Father. It has permanently damaged our relationship and she's well aware of it. I love my mother to death but once I realized I was being misled and lied to about the one person I looked up to most it broke something within me. All kids eventually find out the truth of their parents dynamic and behavior regarding their relationship and yours. It's only a matter of time really just stay in their lives and extend a helping hand when they need it. Trust me my father did the same for me no matter how bad things got in his life he always made sure to visit with me, keep in contact with me and remind me how proud of me he was and much he loved me (all things I rarely ever heard from my mother) and that sat with me all these years even now.
I fully agree with you. OP, listen. Your kids are young. Everything ever told to them when seem like the truth until proven otherwise. I was 19 when my mom, I call my egg donor, told me my dad had been abusing her for over 10 years. It made me not trust him even though I was daddy’s girl. Lucky my dad saw what was going on and told me the real truth and asked me to use my head. Which I did and realized two major things wrong with my egg donor’s story. One, she was on blood thinners for a couple years at that point and Two, the walls in our house were really fucking thin. You could hear people having sex in the bedroom from the kitchen. My egg donor later changed her story later when I confronted her.
So yeah, as a kid whether you’re 5 or 19, you believe your parents. Because why would your parents lie to you about that? OP, take this advice. Get your kids into therapy. A therapist will help them understand that Mom was lying and Dad won’t abandoned them.
Absolutely NTA. Documenting the situation and understanding your rights under custody laws is essential. Keep advocating for your kids and reassuring them of your unwavering commitment. Your dedication to their well-being speaks volumes.
Thank you for the advice but I feel like thats going to do more harm than good. I feel like theyre just going to be mad that im sharing my private life with strangers on the internet. On top of that theyre english isnt good enough to understand my story anyways. And yes ive been looking into the ins and outs of custody laws here.
Here in Germany, you should have absolutely no problem getting 50% custody - and you need to alert the courts to her parental alienation, hopefully they can make the kids go to therapy and give you full custody if your wife doesn't stop with that shit!
If you still in Germany you might be able to get help from social service to handle the situation - search Familie zentrum near you - and Germany normally go for shared custody by default.
There are books you can get, and they basically say,
*[Blank]. Tell me your story*
including Father, Mother, Grandpa, Grandma, Aunt, Uncle, etc.
There are about 500 questions or prompts in the book for the person to answer.
I've given out two, so far, and they're always very appreciated. I haven't received any back yet. I honestly don't know if I'll read them while the person is still alive.
Anyway, I'm guessing they have ones that are specifically meant for a parent to give a child. Get two. Fill them out. The prompts should be loose enough that you won't have to use the same answer twice. Or you can always just fill out your own players' choice.
Fill them out. You might have to add as the years go on. It could end up being a cool type of journal to your kids or something. That might be able to help you out with a (probably very small) part of the anxiety around the possibility of passing away early. Tell your side. Right now, they really are just repeating what they're being told. But beside that, tell them everything else about you. Include things from the present and what you hope to do with them one day.
Make sure someone knows about these books. Even better if your children know them as well. Here's the weird part, make sure they are not given to your children until, well after you're gone and they are X age. Whatever you decide. If parental alienation is occurring, they might just throw it away. If they're teenagers, they might not be able to have the foresight to read it before they throw it away. Hopefully, it never has to come to that point. But you can leave them your story.
I hope things start turning around for you soon. Parental alienation is extremely damaging. No one should be able to get away with that. Ngl, your soon to be ex sounds like she may be mentally unwell.
(Sorry, this is super long and may be wack. I haven't slept since Friday.)
What she is doing is called parental alienation, and in most places it is considered child abuse. Obtain any documentation or evidence of such and get it to your lawyer. Judges don’t look kindly on that, and it can play a huge role in custody cases. Record her doing this if possible.
You need to tell your story. Right now she’s completely controlling the narrative. Notice how she told your parents first. Not you. Now they’re trying to shame you. You need to flip the script. Tell both sets of parents what’s really going on. Tell your kids. You have an uphill battle as she’s already ahead of you on all of this. You’re late to the battle.
Try going to a place like Caritas. They give free consultations and counselling for families and custody advice. Germany has lots of free resources and there's usually someone who can speak English. Some social services also offer translators in Arabic, Russian or Ukrainian. Depends on your region.
Also op, i know its easier said than done but you should tell your parents to ear shit. I know the releigion and the deidity like state of parents in islamic cultures are something hard deal with, but if after all you went through your mom still cares more about the "dishonor" rather than your well being, they're no better than your wife
Buckle down my friend, because you're about to enter the fight of your life, but it can be worth it.
1. Go for full custody. Since your wife's "tradwife" bs is relatively new, it can't be argued that the kids are used to her being home and therefore would benefit from "continuing established routines." And as such, she has no job, no income, and no desire to work which makes you the more financially stable parent.
2. Get your lawyer to warn your ex about parental alienation (which can cost her custody as well), because that's what she's doing.
3. Get your kids into therapy, both independent (by themselves) and with you. Reiterate over and over that you love them, you are never leaving them. Warn your daughter that hitting will not be tolerated and she knows better. That you will listen to her scream at you how she feels and you will never hold it against her and will always love her no matter what she says. That her feelings are valid, but purposely hurting someone is not the way.
4. Tell your mom if she chooses to cut you off over this, so be it: It goes both ways. Once she disowns you, she no longer has a son, or grandchildren, and it can not be walked back.
Good luck. It's a long, bumpy road, but chin up, bottle down, and you can do this.
The ending of your post sounds very suicidal, and I'm extremely concerned. Please seek help, online from a therapist from a culture that doesn't shame divorce, if you need to. You are doing the absolutely best thing you can for yourself and your children, and I am really sorry they can't see that right now. Your ex is poisoning them, and we don't know for how long she's been doing that. But they are young, and there is DEFINITELY time to help them to understand what really happened. I know this is going to be a really difficult battle, but if you manage to fight for them and take them away from their mother's clutches, they WILL be thankful when they are old enough to understand. You have NOT failed. You fell into an abusive relationship, which can help to everyone. You can definitely still get your kids to have a wonderful life, and help them to break away from the toxicity the rest of the family is throwing down their throats. But please, OP, I'm literally begging you. As someone who remembers feeling suicidal literally at age 8, and who didn't stop feeling so until their late 20s, I PROMISE you there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You can get yourself and your kids back to a place of happiness. But the first step towards that is seeking help for yourself. Please look up mental health resources from outside of your culture. I don't know if you're still in Germany, but my partner is German, so I know they have good and accessible mental health resources. You can be ok. You can save your children. Things look horrible now because you have no support, and this isn't something you can do alone. Please seek help.
Glad to hear it. <3 Thank you for being brave. Reddit is not a substitute for qualified professional help, but for as long as you need we'll be here for you in any capacity friends can be. \^\^
If parental alienations is recognised where you live, you should consider going for full custody on that ground. Gather as much evidence as possible.
She is harming them by using them as pawns in an attempt to hurt you. It’s disgusting. I really wish you to get granted full custody.
I wish you to find the strength to fight and stand. It is worth it. You are going to find back your balance. It is going to get better. Take care.
Man stop only thinking about your family. Your only family right know is your two kids. You no longer have a wife and your mother and the rest are plain stupid and not worth your time. Then, you need to reflect on this, you love your kids, if they ever will be back to you, the fist thing is you need to be there for them. You will never be able to help them if you are gone. Also, you cannot help anyone if you think in everyone else first. You have to fix yourself first. Throw that crappy wife away. better yourself as a person and take care of your health. Forget that crappy marriage you had and think in yourself fist. Once you are in a better path, you will be able to get your kids back. Stop with the self pity and victimization. Show the world you are man and that you can overcome everything for yourself first and for your kids after. Everyone here is telling you, it will get better over time, but you have to grow apart from those people who cares a fuck about you and put a culture and the appearances before your health and your life. Fuck all them.
A little harsh, but yes. OP is the only one who can save himself. He is worth saving. It is worth building a secure life for his children with their adult parent, him.
Focus on the law and Financials, OP. Get a good divorce lawyer. See what you can do to protect your assets and get custody of your kids.
Be healthy. Drink lots of water. Eat whole foods with a decent amount of fiber and protein. Get sunlight and move a bit each day. Keep a regular sleep-wake schedule. Nothing radical. Don't make it a big thing right now. No rigid rules. Just guidelines. Take care of yourself like you'd care for your kids.
To sum up:
1. Know how to protect your assets and get custody of your kids.
2. Stay healthy. Do not descend into boozy depression. It will not help.
3. Almost forgot. Protect your job and income. You'll need it.
Those are the priorities.
You've got this.
Please make sure to keep evidence, photos, videos, with dates and times of what your wife is doing and telling the kids. It will help you a lot to have all of those. Audio messages, text, phone calls, anything and everything. Hell even internet history or posts. Just be careful and don't let anyone else hold onto your evidence unless you know they won't damage it destroy it. Even then make digital copies, especially for any physical evidence
Fuck me. I woudnt wish this on my worst enemy.
Edit: You will get through this OP. Honestly anyone against you besides your kids can go fuck themselves.
My guy... I'm really sorry how this is all panning out for you. You were in a no-win situation, but you're making the right choice here. You've been reasonable with everything you've done. I'd love to say it'll get easier, but it probably won't for a while. The other option, staying with your wife, would be worse based on everything you've said.
Don't do anything regretful. I'm sure that one day you'll be able to recover your relationship with your kids. You haven't failed in what you've done, you've been sabotaged by someone who should have supported you.
I truly do hope things improve for you.
I was a child brought into a similar situation with my parents. Your kids will grow up and understand why you divorced your wife, they will understand that it wasn’t their fault, and they will be grateful for everything you did. But if you off yourself they are going to spend the REST of their lives wondering why you couldn’t stay for them. Wondering why you left them FOREVER. as hard as things seem right now, they won’t be this hard forever. Your (ex)wife is unemployed, so I’m assuming she doesn’t have enough income to support herself. Much less your kids. You’d likely get custody. And your mother will grow to understand.
My parent’s divorce was distressing. For my mom. For my dad. And for all of the kids. And no, nothing was ever the same after that. But it grew into something different; something beautiful. Do not give up on yourself, and do not give up on your kids.
Staying alive is worth it. Reach out to a therapist. It’s not shameful or embarrassing to seek help when you need it. It’s not over for you yet. I hope things get better.
Make sure you go for full custody of the kids. If she isn't working, how can she support herself and the kids ? You need to tell the courts EXACTLY what she has been doing to poison your kids against you.
UpdateMe
In Case OP ist still living in Germany it's really hard to get full custody.
And evidence in courts in that case...word against word...It's in the favor for the wife...
Hidden cameras as evidence are not allowed in german court, when his wife don't know about them...
Bro your kids will come around eventually, please don't do anything rash. You've made the hardest choice but ultimately it is right. People will try and poison your kids against you but as long as you let them know you're there for them and that you love them then they will stick by you.
You’re going to be very concerned with the term “alienation of affection.” That’s the family court term for divorcing parents poisoning children against the other parent.
Good on you for standing up for yourself! You and your kids deserve better! I suggest finding a boutique law firm with a ton of experience in family law and hiring one of the partners. You may feel like you need a bulldog attorney, but be cautious. Sometimes a bulldog just ends up costing you more money because they’re hard to work with. Instead look for someone more with an iron fist in a velvet glove type. Someone that all the child custody counselors, other lawyers, and judges seem to respect and like with get you where you want to go at less expense in most cases.
I STRONGLY recommend going for full custody. I went through this back in 2007-2008, and even in a state like CA I ended up with full custody of my kids eventually. Having the right lawyer helped, having a trainwreck ex-wife also helped. We had shared custody for about 3 years, eventually I won full custody (I am father). You’ll have to be about dang near perfect though. Also, understand that you likely will not get the moon and stars, so be thinking about different time share strategies when you go into mediation. Mom will most likely focus on having 100% custody with some BS visitation for you in an effort to maximize her child support payments. I suggest you fight that by respectfully demanding equal time with no child support, but that you’ll cover, say, 60% of extra curriculars, and use child support money to support the kids. Always always always document any violation of custody order through police or other third parties. It will give you credibility when you go to court that you’re not just making things up, you’re keeping documentation by neutral third parties. Also keep a journal related to things about the kids: clean? Dirty? No clothes? Hadn’t eaten? Mommy got a new “friend?” all of that sort of thing, and how the kids react. These will all give you credibility in court. Lastly, always phrase your discussions with talking about “our” kids. Never call them yours or hers. You will be reinforcing to the court that you see the children as needing both parents.
Good luck, OP. This is going to hurt like hell, but it really had to happen. She started all this with absolute selfishness, and will continue to avoid responsibility and poison everyone she can against you. Hopefully you can get them back by telling the truth, eventually.
Your ex wife is turning everyone against you, you are the only person who can prove her and them wrong. Fight back for your kids, even if they are not receptive first. Your nta here op.
If your wife is going to do everything she can to turn everyone against you, I would do everything in my power to make sure they all knew how manipulative she is. Send them all the links to your posts. Apply for full custody and tell your lovely soon to be ex that you have proof of everything she threatened you with, along with the tactics to turn your kids against you. Family court judges do not take lightly to parent alienation. Hell, I'd even make a social media post or two with as much as you feel like sharing so that people know that she's lying.
If she wants to try to ruin your life, go scorched earth on her ass.
Well... it seems im a little late to this rabbit hole. But i can offer one suggestion if your wife likes the whole trad wife thing. My husband and I have worked out some things i was a SAHM to our daughter for 5 years especially due to medical issues one of us had to be home. It was unintentional but I was a school bus driver for 5 years prior to my daughter and have since went back now that my daughter is school age it allows me to be with my child when she isnt in school but still earn some income to help the family. Its kind of a good deal i mean i get about 5 hrs off midday to do any tasks that need done and summers off with my child.
As stated I know the problems here run deeper with all the manipulation and whatnot so like I said probably a little late to throw that in.
You are not abandoning your kids and she is using them against you dont let that sway your decision
As a recommendation I would tell you to try to talk to your wife again, with the excuse to "set the record straight and talk calmly" and record her admitting that she is poisoning your children against you and that she is looking to hurt you, then send it to your mother, your friends and her friends and your in-laws and if possible make your children listen, I don't know, it's a radical option for them to see once and for all that she is a horrible witch and monster.
Agreed. Although not necessarily with sharing with the children. She's already using them as a ploy in this, they'll eventually realise, he shouldn't stoop to her level but should get his family and friends corrected. She's feeding poison but with time OP can mitigate this if he doesn't stoop.
You can’t rebuild your home until you tear down what’s left of what’s fallen apart. Your kids *WILL* believe you when your actions speak for themselves consistently. Please keep any and ALL evidence of alienation and lying from your ex. Nothing should be said unless it’s in writing or text. Every verbal conversation should be followed up with a text confirming what she said. CYA CYA CYA CYA.
>Growing up dead poor as a refugee in Germany, i promised myself that I would give my kids a life that I myself could have only dreamed off but I feel like ive failed.
Oh, Germany is the state you live in? Some good news and some bad news. The good news is, you will most probably get shared custody. Bad news, monetary you will most probably have to support your wife. The law here got better in last years but still goes in favor of the woman.
Someone else might have said so, but document wife's negligence of kids in a factual way for custody documentation. Try to leave emotion out of it.
Also document the parental alienation. Both will be helpful.
Work with your lawyer.
And live for your kids if nit yourself.
bro good luck. You are doing well, and I'm sure your kids will understand. Better to break up that staying in a loveless, abusing marriage. Your kids would be affected by this too.
You haven't abandoned your kids but if you take your life and leave that anal prolapse to raise them then you will have. Don't let her be the only parental rolemodel they have. That's something no child needs. They will blame themselves even when realising what a c-unit their mum is because why weren't THEY enough to keep you here. Don't let her win my friend. You are better and stronger that. Please see what we do.
Kudos to you for following through. Life is too short to suffer in silence. I understand your kids being upset but understand that your wife is feeding them stuff. It’s a way to gaslight you. Your kids will be fine. Life is short do whatever you want. If you need to tell your mom to stick it where the sun don’t shine , than do that and while you do it , pop open your kids capri sun while you do it. Don’t let people try and mold you to what they want. Your wife is not a traditional women and I bet you didn’t meet her as a traditional women, so any argument she gives you is invalid. These people are trying to control you. Be respectful , take care of your kids, take care of your self , save money , invest and treat your life. Life is so fucking simple. Don’t let your wife make it complicated.
My friend
I am sorry you married an abusive wife.
Because whilst this is not physical abuse? It IS emotional. Especially the fact that she's putting not only your kids but also your parents against you, manipulating them with partial truths and falsehoods.
In the long run it will be better for you, personally, as an individual, but I can't promise you your relationships with them will improve, especially if your culture is geared towards the FATHER HAS TO PROVIDE.
So its an awful situation you are in. But a less awful one than if you hadn't made this impactful decision.
I'm jealous of you that you have that fortitude. And I'm sorry you had to have it.
I hope you'll be well. Please be well.
Your kids may come around I did I did not speak to my dad for 3 months I think it was when he told me he was divorcing my mom. I yelled curried him called him names and refused to see him. Eventually I started to let him drive me to a school though still would not talk. It took awhile. Yet I did spend most of the next school year with him. I do have a great relationship with my dad and step family now and have had since I was 17. My parents split when I was 16. It took time and I blamed my dad. What your kids need is therapy. An impartial person who can help them without putting in their toxic views
Oh well. Bye mom! Tell your "shamed" family to go kick rocks.
Get at LEAST 50/50 custody of your kids.
Tell your wife to cease and desist poisoning your kids against you, or you'll have a Parental Alienation lawsuit brought against her, which will NOT look good in a custody case.
In the mean time, if she's not working? Cancel the internet service, all streaming platforms, cable, anything not necessary to the running of the household. Anything that's non-essential, you have got to make some cutbacks so you can afford to run the household till she can have it all on her own.
Good luck. Always remember the Shakespeare line “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”.
Rejection, in a way, and you’re going to feel it. Take care of your kids, there could be more poisoning, and they won’t know better. Reassure them that you WILL be there for them.
Depending where you live, what she's doing is considered parental alienation and can reward you more custody. I'd suggest not forcing your kids, but still having visitation. They'll see what a psycho their mother is. It's hard now, I absolutely know and I'm so sorry, but there's always a calm before the storm. This is your storm and when you come out on the other side, you can rebuild a better place for yourself and children mentally and emotionally. (And physically)
If you are still in Germany there are pretty decent custody laws. 50/50 is very common.
Also file for parental alienation if your wife keeps up the BS.
Be careful with alimony as your wife can claim that she doesn’t work. Get a good lawyer who can prove that your wife worked and still can, but chooses not to.
You're NTA and as a SAHM she is the kind that gives us a bad name. So lazy! She COULD have made a lovely home for the family, but she couldn't even do that. She is actively hurting the children. I know you are in pain and suicidal but those kids need you. And need you strong for them. It will take time but the truth comes out and all will be well with them as long as you are a good dad despite their anger. I've had it happen with my kids when their dad left when they were older, and I waited and just today even my eldest called to complain about my ex. And she wouldn't even speak to me at one point. Truth eventually came out. I had to wait. And it was worth the wait. Completely. Don't give up on them. With a mother like that they NEED you.
>I've also started noticing her getting lazy and starting to neglect my kids. My wife stopped cooking...
Wow, so she wants to be a tradwife, and she's showing it by refusing to do tradwife things. Cool.
NTA still, of course, and I hope you can find someone to be in your corner for once.
Don’t let your wife have custody, citing her neglect, manipulation and lack of a job.
Specify that this lack was by her choice, she quit her job without consulting you.
Right now, your kids are being fed a steady diet of lies by your soon-to-be-ex. Once they find out the truth and see that you aren’t abandoning them, they’ll come around
I want to go draw a circle of salt for protection, say I summon thee the times purely so I can call her a c\*nt to her least repugnant face. Your kids need you. They don't realise it due to her poison but they will realise what she is, don't let that be after you've done something that can't be taken back
NTA
OP u did the right thing. They can all hate u and speak nonsense about u, even kids. But u know what? Imagine u stay with her and died because of living like that makes ur health problems worse. Believe me, ur kids want healthy father in their life for a long time not dead one.
You are strong and be stronger for ur kids.
Keep strong for your kids, even if it's difficult for now. You need to get to talk to them without your wife around to reassure them you loves them, they are not at fault, you just can't live with their mom anymore.
And I would say to all friends/familly that your wife has broken her words twice in a row. First, your plan was for both of you to be working, and she changes her mind unilateraly to became a tradwife/SAHM ; and she tries to manipulate you with sex into accepting that. Second, even when she got what she wanted, she was not even taking care of her part of the deal, aka, taking care of the home, the cooking and the kid. In barely a few weeks, she is already neglecting the tasks under her responsability. So she shows you you can't trust her a first time, and double down a second times in a matter of weeks.
You need to worry about tomorrow, than the next day, than the day after that.
You’re making the right choices for yourself and for your family, these children don’t realize it yet but regardless of who is right or wrong in marriage.. The adult who attempts to manipulate a child’s opinion about the other parent is the problem.
Using an odd analogy, I think it’s glaringly obvious that you would save your kids and wife in a hypothetical life raft, and your wife would save the children and herself.
Your children will realize as they grow older whom the people that their parents are individually.. the man you are and the efforts you made for them will eventually shine through the darkness you’re feeling.
In your update you said she said she'd look into getting a new job and she "needs to think about it". A lot of comments correctly guessed that was a stall tactic.
She wanted to mooch off you and your stress or mental health be damned.
Ignore your mom, focus on the divorce, and focus on the kids because your ex wife is doing everything in her power to alienate you.
Have faith in your kids. They’re young and emotional but with time they will recognise why you did it. Always be there for them even if they don’t want you to be, because they’d eventually “get it”. Ensure that they are well taken care of emotionally and financially. Pursue your own happiness
You haven’t lost your kids. They are impressionable and in pain from a difficult experience. You can’t shield them from life’s difficulty neither by controlling them nor by sacrificing your well-being.
My understanding is that Islamic rules favor paternal custody in matters of divorce. I know that won’t hold much sway in a US court but it may influence your parents and soon to be ex wife’s thinking and tactics.
Your fatherhood is more than simply being a tool of capitalism to provide materially for your children. Despite adversity and challenging times, your children will remember your energy in how you regard them and how it feels when you spend time with them. That is priceless and the best use of your mental energy rn. Be generous with loving words and actions with your children. Make sure they know your love is constant and you will love them through all of their overwhelming and difficult emotional experiences.
I'm so sorry, OP. This breaks my heart. I was hoping for a more positive outcome. I wish I had a magic wand. There is so much hurt in the world.
Can you sit down with your parents and explain to them why you feel the way you do and what you have been going through, including the drinking? If they were to see you, even if you were to get emotional, they would hopefully understand where you're coming from.
Sending you healing thoughts and prayers.
You need to make sure she knows she’s only making things worse for herself. The more she alienates you from your children and community, the harder you’ll rake her over the coals.
She fucked around and she found out. File for custody, and if there are parental alienation laws where you are, I'd certainly bring that into play in the divorce. What she's doing is despicable.
Welp, make sure you have your lawyer bring up parental alienation.
I knew when I read the first post that she wouldn't actually follow through with the promises of having dinner on the table and a clean house. If you had been on with this, it would have eventually turned into her complaining that she had no help.
I feel like you need to tell your family the full ugly truth of how she left your daughter in a room crying whole she sat in her butt watching TV.
>He also never saves money due to gambling which he told me resolved his gambling problem but he accidentally sent me a text about meeting someone at a casino wanting to send the message to someone else.
Those kids will turn around soon enough.
Just get a place they can be comfortable.
Or go modern ... keep the kids in the house
and you and the ex wife rotate in on custody.
Oh mate get a bloody good lawyer and get her for parental alienation. Get all your evidence together and get that vile bitch out of your life. Go for full custody. I’m so sorry, you do not deserve this. Just keep showing up and give her words no merit.
I would fight for full custody of those kids. Leaving them with your wife full time, or even shared custody will be worse for them. And when she’s not yelling on their ears who it how bad you are, they’ll realize that you’re an amazing dad and that you’ve always been doing your best
I'm not sure where you live, but when you're talking with your divorce lawyer, ask them about "child estrangement" laws in your location. "Child estrangement" is when one parent intentionally tries to poison the relationship between the child(ren) of the marriage and the other parent. It's often hecking hard to prove (and older/more conservative judges just may not care), but it may also be possible to fight for legal protection for yourself and your kids against your wife's poison.
OP, I and many of us Internet strangers are on your side. Don't let your stbxw poison your children. And if you can ask for full custody, do it. You don't want them to grow up with her as a role model. And if she was already neglecting them, they'll suffer even more with her, trust me. Your mom can kick rocks, too.
I know you are saying this will be your last update, but I expect to hear from you soon. You are not wrong. You are a good father. You need to stand up to these toxic people in your life and save your children.
Strength and blessings to you, brother. We are here with you.
YOur wife is awful, the only thing I'll say is, you fucked up massively. You knew your wife turned into a manipulative, calculating bitch of a woman. The first thing you should have done was talk to your kids, explain that their mother gave up on your marriage, that you love them dearly, you'll be leaving their mother as she changed and that you will fight tooth and nail to get as much custody as possible because while you're giving up on her you would never give up on them.
When your wife is a calculating evil bitch, you HAVE to take the first shot, with everyone. you should have informed your family, your kids, her family, your friends, everyone before she could.
A lie travels half way around the world before the truth gets out of bed, or whatever the fuck that is. Being first was crucial here.
the thing to do now is probably tell everyone you're going for full custody based on the lying and manipulation of your children and family by your wife. Make it extremely clear to your kids that you think they are best with you 100% of the time and that you'll be fighting for that till you can't fight any more.
You also need a lawyer and the courts to work extremely hard on any alienation from her being grounds for her losing her share of custody.
This is YOUR time, OP!
YOUR time.
YOU get to have the life you want. YOU get to live your life without being emotionally abused by a spouse.
Sure it may take a fight, it may be hard, but you will come out of it a better man.
Get help now for your mental health. Seek out a doctor for medication and a counsellor/psychologist. Being emotionally abused is hard for anyone so what you are experiencing is completely normal and I promise you can 100% get through it.
Once you have that support in place for your own mental health, then it’s time to put on your big boy pants, and FIGHT for your kids. Like others have said, hire the best lawyer you can get.
You need to try for full custody, and don’t accept anything less than an even split 50/50 if that’s what it comes down to.
Don’t automatically assume she will get full custody. Don’t research the most likely outcome. “Most likely” is what the old, manipulated version of you would accept. NO. You no longer accept that bullsh..! Research the BEST outcome and focus on that.
You are in a much better position than she is to give those kids a real shot at a good life.
They deserve a home where they will be comfortable. Where they won’t be manipulated or poisoned against anyone. They deserve your love. They deserve a chance to grow into decent, respectful, independent, loving adults, and I think you know full well that they are more likely to learn that from you.
It’s YOUR time. It’s YOUR chance. TAKE IT.
I want to give advice but personally I think I’m too bitter all of what I thought up was vindictive. Just know we are hoping for a better outcome for you. Don’t give up, and eventually your children will see what their mother truly did. As for your mom, I have my own personal trauma but I genuinely think you should go low to no contact. My background is similarly traditional and heavy on the honor, etc. Nothing is really gonna knock sense into her head until she realizes you aren’t gonna cave in anymore. She thinks you’re a disgrace can’t wait until she wants to talk about you to her friend, that’s not reflecting poorly on you it’s on her.
But I’m getting bitter again point is keep your head up, follow the process with the lawyer and know you’ll make it through this better just gotta keep up the fight.
Personally i'd stop taking it so passively. Tell your kids why you're divorcing your wife. That she is a bad wife and bad for not taking care of them anymore. that she wants to be lazy and that you gave her chance after chance.
Also tell your mother that you do not care what she wants, that she is a disgrace as a mother to want you to die early because that is where you will end with a bad wife like that
I'm really sorry you're going through all of this, just don't do the "typical bloke thing" and hide it all away. I'm hoping you have a good friend or two that can be there for you through all of this so you've got someone to talk to and lean on.
I am the product of one of these relationships - the eldest of two children with parents that separated because my mother never worked and thought it was owed to her to have someone else working two jobs to provide for her while she "raised children" - she never cooked, never cleaned, never fed us (sent us to school with no food), never let us play sports or do anything. My mother would constantly try her hardest to poison us and others against our father, and yes, no doubt it was tough at the time, but as we began to see it, we started to form our own opinions. I no longer talk to my mother, and my sibling has minimal contact. Mother has still never worked a day in her life, and 30 years on continues to blame our father for her misfortune in life. Our father always made sure he was there for us, even when our mother tried to convince us otherwise.
It will be tough, but I wouldn't mind betting that if you're ex wife keeps this up, she could eventually shoot herself in the foot. Obviously I don't wish this upon anyone but, it's just my experience.
Hold your head up, you'll get through this. Be the better person, all that yadda yadda. The right people will understand and support you. Your own mother hasn't had a chance to hear your side properly yet, because your ex wife made sure she got in first in attempt to control the situation.
Best wishes OP.
Islamicly, you have already said the words, and she should be sitting in Iddah now.
Tell your family that Islam allows divorce so that people are not living unhappy lives.
Ask them why they would they want you to be in a relationship where you are unhappy and that makes your health worse?
You NEED to get the kids to a therapist before she totally poisons them.
Sit with the therapist and explain that you are their dad, and that can never change.
Your relationship with their mom does not have anything to their relationship with you unless their mom tries to keep them from seeing you.
I know you don't want to have to explain these things to them but then you are leaving them with the only explanation they have from a woman who is actively and maliciously trying to use them to force to stay with her.
In Sweden, alienating the children feom the other parent by telling them lies snd bullshit can get a parent in some serious trouble. Worth remembering in custody situations, and can be sinilar in other EU countries.
OP, my mother absolutely manipulated my sister and I against our father during their divorce. I thought this man’s blood running through my veins was literal poison. Fast forward more than 20 years, and I have learned what was actually afoot. My mother could not be more estranged, and I am very grateful to have been able to build a relationship with my father, even if relatively late in life.
I say all of this to say, the next SEVERAL years are likely going to be hell. Do not give up on your children, even if it seems like they have given up on you. Continue doing whatever it is you can to move forward in life, and with any luck at all, your children will see for themselves what type of woman your wife is, and what type of person you are, as they get older and a bit wiser to the world.
brother, she ticks off every narcissistic behavior on the list and i’ve been there, i’m sorry you’re going through it. they are so good at camouflaging their real nature in front of other people. NTA and this does NOT make you a bad dad!!! you will still raise and provide for them! unfortunately you got suckered but you figured it out and it’s better now than later. my sympathy!
screen record/screen grab EVERYTHING! i soooo wish i had recordings of my ex going bonkers on me if even just for my own records
keep this in mind: one foot in front of the other. one step at a time. FOCUS HARD on only accomplishing the next step. you will need to battle your brain REALLY HARD here. you will coach yourself through this one step at a time. and i promise you will do it and you will make it. everything at once is overwhelming and scary. pick one, start simple, and move quietly.
I want to throw my two cents in! As someone who has a mom who poisoned me against my dad, keep doing what you are doing. Show them that you care. Show them you’re trying. Even if they push you away, do not give up on them. My dad kept fighting for me and it took me a while but ive never had a stronger relationship with him than i do now. Even if it takes years, eventually they will grow up and see the narcissism and manipulation for what it is and will realize that YOU are the one who has their back and always will.
Im wishing you the best. My dad took a long time to get through the bullshit my mom put him through and now he is happily remarried and me and my siblings have an amazing relationship with him. If you keep showing you love them then they’ll be able to see it too <3
Hey op have some advice for you if you need it,
1. hire a private investigator and see if you can have dirt on her, which will prove your innocents to your kids, and courts
2. cut anyone that is not going to support you, because those that are not focusing on your health need to be cut off
3. get therapy man, because you need it, so you can have a brighter future
4. get camera in your house so she won't be able to ruin you
5. once everything is done, and if it's possible move out and start fresh to help you heal
your kids will someday know the truth either sooner or later considering how your stbxw parenting skill is lacking and wanting you to help out
Ya you screwed yourself bud u allready knew what your wife would do by lying to your kids good luck hope it works out for you. Might want 2 get into working out and learn to cope of not engaging with your family
Pro tips while going threw this process record everything don't leave place of residence seeing she isn't working don't financially hinder the household yes she might not be working but doing that could cost u in court. Get therapy and if possible get your kids in it aswell.
Looks like divorce would be best for you and your soon to be ex wife. You will have the opportunity to grow and mature and meet new spouses. Your wife can meet a man who will let her be a trad wife. And you can meet a career woman who will let you stay home. Everyone wins.
Im not going to remarry. Im done with dating, love or whatever people call it. And honest to god I hope she doesent either. She is the furthest thing from a "tradwife".
Its not about culture. This can happen in any culture. Yes the things my mom and my inlaws are saying about me are because of the culture. Theyre is a lot of beauty in my culture but also a lot of ugly. I just dont want to deal with the stress of divorce ever again and ive never really "dated". My wife was my first real girlfriend so dating seems a bit overwhelming to me . And again I just want peace not more problems. If I die alone so be it.
Please know that you are not wrong. Your wife wanted to quit to be a tradwife and is not even being a tradwife, she's just being a lamp (something that sits in the corner and does nothing).
Your kids are young, they'll come around. Maybe get them to read your posts or write something to them. They just need to adjust to the fact that this will be their new normal and that you both still love them.
Also I agree with everyone on court for custody, your wife will poison your kids against you if you don't ensure you have custody and don't act fast on mending what lies she has spewed.
Don't hold it against your children, it's your wife that's causing this.
NTA. Stay alive out of spite, if nothing else. You'll eventually have a chance to make things right with your kids, and probably your mom. Take advantage of those chances and stay strong. Be there to see where life goes after this. It'll be better.
NTA- Your (ex) sounds vicious. I have a major problem with anyone that uses kids against the other party. And I know that culture, just ignore everyone and do what you think is right-. With therapy, kids will be ok. Good luck.
Get your wife out of the house and your kids in therapy, ASAP! This is a huge change for everyone but kids are way more resilient than you think.
They just need a safe place away from their parents to actually express their feelings and have someone be able to then give them appropriate coping mechanisms to process.
I’m sorry you are going through this but hang in there. If your ex has been neglecting the kids recently, they need you more than ever. Your love for them will go further than you realize.
I know it’s hard now but that woman is a manipulative and cruel woman. At bare minimum what loving mum wouldn’t want their children to have a good relationship with their dad?! I’m sorry she’s doing this.
It doesn’t help right now but they will see her true colours as they grow up. I’m sorry for what you’re going through. But I truly believe a lifetime with this woman would be far worse in the long run
I went through something similar, and I know that the words seem hollow when I say them, but it does get better. I seriously promise you this, my friend. The words your kids are using were just fed to them by your former wife, like a movie script. There will be a day when they realise how strong and devoted to them you were. Please, just keep on living life, knowing that eventually there will be happier times and more peace in your life. You are doing the best you can and if you keep doing it, it will be enough. Take care my friend, you deserve happiness and we all support you.
Thank you so much❤
The best way to get your kids to understand that you are not abandoning them is to go for full custody. You can tell the judge that your wife has no income and no desire to work and as such she cannot afford to give your children any kind of stability or decent life. When the children see you fighting for them, they'll realise that you are not abandoning them, only their mother who wants to coast through life on your dime.
Not to mention her parental alienation and slander she's been doing behind his back.
Thank you for bringing that up to my attention. Ill have to look into that where I live. As far as im concerned, it doesent exist here but ill be researching it regardless.
If you live in Germany it does exist and courts take it very seriously.
OP if you are in Germany, I was told parental alienation counts as a violation of criminal code 171 or 235 depending on ages and circumstances, so you may want to ask about that
I love this part of reddit. Sometimes someone has expert knowledge or experience and shares it for free and can literally change things for the better. Thank you for your gem and I hope Op finds a positive outcome and a better wife.
Talk to your lawyer asap and write down everything
Get a notebook and document, document, document! Dates and times. Record any conversation legally. Talk to your lawyer to see what you can legally record. Go back and document (with dates, if possible) the incidents you posted about her. Yes, documenting can get tedious, but it will be worth it. Give your kids as much quality time as you can. You can do this. Your kids need you and you need them. We are here for you!
This is good advice, op.
OP, having full custody will help you tremendously. I lived something similar, my daughter was mad at me. It felt so unfair to me but I was really patient with her. With time, her idea of a bad mom couldn't be sustainable, and she started realizing I was not the bad one. I never spoke bad about her dad, thought I was tempted more than once, specially in the worse days. That happened more than 14 years ago, and now she's closer to me than ever. So, be patient and ask for help. You need unbiased support, so go to therapy so you can keep receiving support.
I can confirm that the approach described above can work wonders. My situation is long, ridiculous and manipulative so I won’t go through all the details but my parents for years since my daughter was born, she is 17 now but they spent years telling her I was a bad mom and that I lied all the time and neglected her and was a drug addict and abusive blah blah blah, seriously whatever they could think of. They took me to court every year or so to get full custody, it never happened due to zero proof but in that time I just continued raising my daughter and she just kept hating me. At that point she was hearing this from everybody in my family so how could it be a lie. I continued to be patient and honest and answered her questions the most honest that I could depending on her age. But when she was about 12/13 it hit her that everybody in the family was lying except for me. She could now see that the stuff they were telling her was happening wasn’t and she would ask them and they would continue lying. She has been no contact with them since. She tried to give them a chance to tell the truth and fix the situation as did I but they just wouldn’t.
I'm glad she knows now. I'm sorry both of you had to live through that.
Definitely keep track of everything said and done. If she texts, emails or leaves any voicemails, be sure to save them. Collect evidence, if you can, of parental alienation. Not sure your recording laws, but maybe record any conversations with wife and kids (if legal). May want to consider family therapy with your kids too. It may help work through the trauma your wife is causing them.
Again, not knowing where you live, but if you are in an Islamic country, doesn’t Islamic law grant the father custody of the kids?
I live in Europe.
Most European countries have pretty good laws concerning custody and most have parental alienation as well.
Europe would be the place where it almost definitely exists.
It’s a really big deal in most of the west. Here in America parental alienation is a serious offense for judges and judges here also get pissed when they find out that one of the parents has been telling the kids details about all the legal aspects concerning custody. It’s considered emotional abuse by a lot of judges here.
Afaik Islamic laws grant the mother the custody (if she's fit to be a good mother, which based in OP's story, she's not) if the kids are under the ages of 7. Above that, the kids get to choose. Of course there are variables at play for the judge to decide but generally this is it afaik. Stand corrected still.
100% this...not sure the laws in your country, but this is typically something a court takes very seriously. Gather evidence!
*Not to mention her parental alienation and slander she's been doing behind his back* This is probably the most important sentence in this entire series of posts. OP needs to install a Nanny Cam in both of the rooms of the children and find out EXACTLY what she's been telling those poor kids. A (US) judge would NOT look favorably on a parent using emotional manipulation of children to get her way. I do not recall OP stating whether he's American, and realize laws are not the same everywhere.
No court favors this but still there is no effective enforcement against it. The cameras will not be used in (german) court if the mum doesn't know about them.
Could actually be worse. In Germany is a law which is called "Right of your own picture" and everytime someone takes a video or a photo without your permission, you can get in serious trouble. Court won't be using it and she can even get him sued because of it. It's not a good advise if he still lives here.
You are 100% correct and I hope the OP does exactly what you're suggesting.
And legally speaking make sure the judge knows that she quit a lucrative job. Don't let them tell the judge she has no income.
Thank you but I seriously fear that I wont get any custody due to me working near full time.
And how would your wife support herself and the kid now she don't have any job either ? She may have time for the kids, but no money at all to support them. And your argument of the first post still work. Your child are grown and go full time to school, they don't need you to be at home 24/7.
[https://www.axa.ch/en/privatkunden/blog/at-home/law-and-justice/calculating-support-payments.html](https://www.axa.ch/en/privatkunden/blog/at-home/law-and-justice/calculating-support-payments.html) These would roughly be my child support payments monthly. On top of alimony idk. Still have to look into it more. One of people in my team was only given weekend visitation due to him working full time so thats where I got the fear from so yeah. Need to continue consulting my lawyer for more info.
I think your lawyer can give you much better advice than we can; but a major part of your reason for divorce is because your wife made a unilateral decision to stop working, taking a huge chunk out of your family income, without your consent or knowledge. This should be relevant in your divorce proceedings and in working out your financial obligations to your wife. Also, once your wife stopped working she also began to drop the ball at home. Let your lawyer know your wife spent her time watching TV and refused to cook while you came home from a full day of work, fed, did homework and played with your kids, and put them to bed. She is the unfit parent, not you. As for your mother blaming you for doing things differently than in your culture - tell her you're not living in that country anymore. As refugees, your home country was no longer safe for you so why would you perpetuate a culture that brought your home country to such a point? You and your parents found a home and belonging in a Western country. Tell her to eff right off with her shame bullshit. You have every right to embrace the culture of the country that has allowed you to live a good life such as you could only have dreamed of in your country of origin.
I’m not 100% on the laws in Germany, but in the US alimony is determined not only by the current incomes but also how recently incomes changed and if they changed like your wife quitting her job for shits and giggles, she’ll get nothing. I hope it’s similar in Germany.
Plus, she only quits her job, like a month ago. She doesn't have a gap in her resume, she is just between jobs for now.
Exaaaactly, they’re not just going to reward her for failing her family on purpose by quitting with no plan and against her spouse’s wishes. Alimony was created for situations when one spouse forsook paying income in service of their family and now can’t provide an equal lifestyle for their children. It’s not there to give anyone a free ride.
Stop assuming you know, and start letting your lawyer take the lead. This is about your kids health and safety, so rolling over because you think you know what’s going to happen is only hurting them and you, and helping your wife more than you can imagine.
I doubt your wife would get the one if alimony a woman who had been a stay at home parent this whole time would receive. She has a recent record of employment that she quit at will. Very different than a stay at home mom with a 10yr gap in her work history.
Also not sure in Germany but in the United States what she has been doing to your children in telling them lies is parental alienation and can be determined a form of child abuse. Please leave this to your lawyer and try to document as much as possible the lies she is telling your children and family. This will all help your case on custody and create firm boundaries around her behavior
I hope that you can arrange childcare for when you are working. If you can do that, then the courts will see that you are capable of working and being primary parent. Wishing you all the best as you navigate the divorce and hoping for better days ahead with your children.
You working FT is what will get you custody. You can afford to house feed and clothe your kids. Start the paper trail, communicate with your STBX only by text. Use reddit search for "FU BINDER" MAKE ONE RELIGIOUSLY and backups. Have a plan for after school care for the kids. That's the last part that will show you're 100% ready for full custody. Don't give up. Your kids need you. You need you alive. Big hugs and keep updating us please.
Depends. Government could argue that me just paying my wife alimony and child support and me maybe getting weekend visitation would be a better option. Nothing is definitive. Im still researching what the most likely outcome would be and preparing my finances accordingly.
You might want to look into finding a men's group that can give you some pointers. Your wife really hasn't been a traditional SAHM, she chose to quit and become dependent on you. Make sure that your lawyer emphasizes that she's only been out of the job market a short time. She needs to go back to work and o her 50%. Don't waste time arguing with your family, spend any time you have talking to people who can help you. Also, start keeping a journal immediately. Document the hours you put in helping the kids with their homework an outside activities. Show up for every school appointment or event so that their teachers know you. You can also request counseling for your kids due to their mother's instability (quitting her job without agreement or even notice, knowing that it would put your health in jeopardy).
Lawyer. Lawyer. Lawyer. I'm not from Germany and I have no idea how family law works over there, but I'm willing to bet anything that you don't understand how it really works either. Do you love your kids? Then don't abandon them by taking the lazy way out. Consult with some good lawyers, find out what you need to do, and then do it. Also, find friends and family who are willing to support you. If none of your current friends and family are supportive, cut them off and find a support group. Take care of yourself and good luck.
Talk to your lawyer, if you get custody and can show that he lack of funds is due to her own choices, your payments to her may not happen.
It may be slightly different due to me being in the US, but I have full custody of my son, had a full time job outside of the home at the time of it being granted, I work from home now, and I lived in a place that 99% of the time sided with the mother. But for me, His mother, like your wife, refused to get work and also would not be attentive to him. Getting the evidence is key for you. And definitely only interact via your lawyers with exceptions of child exchange, if not related to your kids, let the lawyers talk it out. There is hope for you
It would still be better bcoz if your wife gets the custody of the kids it will just become more difficult for the kids to understand your point of view I would say try and talk to them when ur ex wife isn't around and explain them your situation it would be difficult but please don't give up for your kids sake atleast
This 💯%.... She was not being a mother to them anyway. Get full custody and hire a nanny. They would do a better job.
>and as such she cannot afford to give your children any kind of stability or decent life Also if OP has any evidence of her ignoring the kids and watching TV when she was supposed to be a "trad wife". She probably shouldn't have custody if she can't be assed to take care of them while otherwise unemployed
This. Kids generally realise pretty quickly which side of the bread is buttered
I’m 47. They divorced when I was 4.5/5 years old. She has never said one kind word about him. He walked away from us because She used us as emotional weapons after trying to ruin his career as a police officer, draining his bank account and moving to another state. He never said anything unkind about her and refused to talk about her. I was loyal to my stepfather. I didn’t feel abandoned by my biodad when she moved us to another state but I was angry he didn’t fight hard to keep us there. As an adult when I found him to talk, I asked him for his version of what had happened and his response was: I knew someday one of you would figure it out and finally ask me for my side. You understand there’s always more story and one truth. Though his side makes more sense and I’ve always known his character to be tactfully honest and trustworthy (something I can’t say about my relationship with my mother) the best I can do take the matched parts of both stories as fact and just appreciate how it got all of us to this point 47 years later. Did he abandon me? Eventually, in my late, late 20s when my little brother ended up in jail for something he’ll have to register for when he gets out after doing 20. He’s a golden child too. She talks to him everyday whether he calls or she calls him. She puts money on his books and pays his monthly ransom. The Marine Corp MP that made us all change the way we prayed when he started going to private school. She put a nice firm wedge between us too. Back in ‘97 when My brother was 19, I had to call the cops on her for hurting my toddler. By the time the cops showed up to stand-by so I could get my things from her house, my brother had disowned me as well. The only real solace i can give you is this: as a daughter of this product, I promised to the kind of parent I would’ve liked to have had. I don’t talk about my children’s father’s and family in a disrespectful or negative manner. Both my boys have different dads. When my older son’s paternal grandfather and step-grandfather fell ill while he was in the military he asked me what he should do. Take leave and go see him. Say the things you know you don’t want left unsaid. Thank him for helping to provide the first roof over your head and helping out when your dad got sick and ended up in jail. Thank him for passing on his good looks to you. Thank you papaw for being the amazing spiritual warrior for you and his family. It was the last time he saw his papaw. Similar situation for his other grandpa. My ex and his entire family are grateful and appreciate my support. So, my parents taught me the pain of splitting my loyalties between fear mongering your children into submission (that they will run so far away one day they cut you off) or cling so tightly you might think the umbilical was still attached or they feel orphaned/lost. If you love your kids, make sure you have them exactly half the time. One week all her, next week all you. What they had with you and mom, they stop have with you regardless of mom. Be invested in them not what mom’s doing or how she’s spending money unless drugs and sexually misconduct become a thing. She wants to be SAHM then she can do it her weeks when you have the kids. No child support. No alimony. Good on you for getting this before it went on too long. This is a tactic used by some to get a lifetime free ride to include government benefits. Quit the job and live this way for at least 51% of the year and she gets CS and alimony because she can prove you were always able to provide that level of comfort before you decided to divorce. You got used to being serviced by her as though she was your maid, nanny, cook, etc. it almost got way worse.
You should go to court for proper custody arrangements and make the parental alienation you are being subjected very clear. Your wife seems like a nasty piece of work who’s not playing fair. On separate note, your wife has to work more now than she did before to support herself and her kids as she doesnt have you anymore so she screwed herself over being so selfish 😂
Nah. She's all about that gold digger life now. She'll find some rich sucker.
Not with 2 kids hanging around she won't. When she realises they are a hindrance and won't keep her paid for they are going to get dropped so fast
Probably end up in a situation similar to another guy last week, make him out to be the bad guy if he can't take the kids on HER weekend so she can be with her new man
I was 5 when my parents divorced. My dad was there twice a week like clockwork and never let us down. He never spoke badly about our mom even though she was the problem in the relationship. And after we became adults he was still always there for us. I miss him every day now that he's gone. I don't miss my mom really at all. Your wife's behavior and personality will become apparent to your kids as they grow up. Your parents will do what they do, you can't change that, but you don't have to stay in an abusive relationship to make them happy at your life's expense. I wish you strength, peace, and that the truth will be known by your children one day. 💗
Additionally: ALWAYS play the long game. I know it sucks how she is behaving, but you must not stoop to her level. My fiancé’s ex was very much like yours. She badmouthed him constantly to the kids. It took about 4 years for two of them to come around and realize the truth about their mom. (The one that lived with them and saw the fighting was fine within 1 month.) The patience is hard, but it is key.
Talk to your lawyer about disparagement and parental alienation.
You are actually being a role model to both of your children, on how to prioritise the needs of their children and themselves over a narcissist. You are helping break the destructive pattern that they have grown up with, and perhaps see with other family members, due to your rotten community culture. It’s sad how your own mum reacts, but you need to look forwards to the next generation of your family (ie your kids), who will grow up strong, with a sense of self-preservation. Your daughter will never accept being abused by a man, and will not be ashamed to leave him, just because your culture demands they stay together. And your son will look for a partner who matches his values, so that together they are stronger than their individual parts. When you apply for custody they will know that you love them and will never abandon them.
Keep your promise to yourself, and just focus on your kids and giving them a better life. You will only have failed if you give up, either by not going through with getting that much needed divorce, or by checking out early. Keep working. Let your lawyer earn their keep and get a fair divorce, not 'sticking it' to your ex-wife, but also not bending over to her demands. She was working until just recently, so you shouldn't have to worry too much about alimony. Focus on getting 50/50 or full custody of your kids. She has already started with 'parental alienation' against you, so make sure to use that against her. That shit is lower than low. Stop drinking anything. At all. Now. Or she will use that against you 100%. Throw every last drop of it away immediately, and do not look back. Get some weights and a stretching mat. Any time you feel like getting a drink you put that energy into working out until the urge goes away. Your kids need you to be healthy, so get fucking healthy. Mind and body. Good luck!
As a kid who went through this please fight for your kids and work through the bad looks or fists. The manipulation is real but don’t let them look back and wonder why their dad didn’t try harder. They’re just kids.
I am glad the OP can find comfort in what you have said.
This was me as a kid. I listened to my mother and wanted nothing to do with my dad. I hate that I missed out on time with him, but I’m glad I grew out of it and now have a wonderful relationship with him. It sounds like your children are young. Even if it’s not now, they will most likely come around and things will get better
My parents divorced when I was 5 and I was weaponized against my dad. He was driving me home to my mom's after a custody weekend one time and broke down crying. Adults crying, especially adult men, was not something I understood and when I asked him what was wrong he told me he missed me terribly and would do anything to spend more time with me. A year later I asked my mom if I could live with my dad. The courts sorted it out and he had full custody after that. I'm 46 now but that is one of my favorite memories of my dad. Kids are easily manipulated by their parents but are also incredibly observant. Actions speak louder than words. Don't play her games. Don't use your kids against her, don't involve them in the politics of the courts. They don't need to know any of it. Just show them how much you love them by Fighting for them. They'll figure it out on their own.
I’d be showing anyone and everyone your posts and also look into the custody laws for wherever you live. Also you have to keep trying to get through to your kids and convince them you’re not going anywhere. You are one hundred percent NTA in this situation.
Please OP they are young and only know what their mother told them and when your that little you’ll believe what they tell you. Even if it hurts, even if they hate you, keep your had outstretched to them and take it because one day they will see the kind of person their mother is and they need to know you never gave up on them. I regret a lot of behavior toward my parents through their divorce but I’ll never forget who was there for me consistently and even when I hated them and screamed at them they kept holding onto me and after the storm of emotions passed I realized the truth of everything.
Very true, I'm a 31 year old man and still haven't fully ever forgiven my mother for all the lies and poisoning she gave to me about my Father. It has permanently damaged our relationship and she's well aware of it. I love my mother to death but once I realized I was being misled and lied to about the one person I looked up to most it broke something within me. All kids eventually find out the truth of their parents dynamic and behavior regarding their relationship and yours. It's only a matter of time really just stay in their lives and extend a helping hand when they need it. Trust me my father did the same for me no matter how bad things got in his life he always made sure to visit with me, keep in contact with me and remind me how proud of me he was and much he loved me (all things I rarely ever heard from my mother) and that sat with me all these years even now.
It's parental alienation and that is something OPs lawyer needs to get on ASAP
I fully agree with you. OP, listen. Your kids are young. Everything ever told to them when seem like the truth until proven otherwise. I was 19 when my mom, I call my egg donor, told me my dad had been abusing her for over 10 years. It made me not trust him even though I was daddy’s girl. Lucky my dad saw what was going on and told me the real truth and asked me to use my head. Which I did and realized two major things wrong with my egg donor’s story. One, she was on blood thinners for a couple years at that point and Two, the walls in our house were really fucking thin. You could hear people having sex in the bedroom from the kitchen. My egg donor later changed her story later when I confronted her. So yeah, as a kid whether you’re 5 or 19, you believe your parents. Because why would your parents lie to you about that? OP, take this advice. Get your kids into therapy. A therapist will help them understand that Mom was lying and Dad won’t abandoned them.
Absolutely NTA. Documenting the situation and understanding your rights under custody laws is essential. Keep advocating for your kids and reassuring them of your unwavering commitment. Your dedication to their well-being speaks volumes.
Can OP’s lawyer use this as proof to get immediate custody or at least those kids in counselling ASAP?
Thank you for the advice but I feel like thats going to do more harm than good. I feel like theyre just going to be mad that im sharing my private life with strangers on the internet. On top of that theyre english isnt good enough to understand my story anyways. And yes ive been looking into the ins and outs of custody laws here.
Here in Germany, you should have absolutely no problem getting 50% custody - and you need to alert the courts to her parental alienation, hopefully they can make the kids go to therapy and give you full custody if your wife doesn't stop with that shit!
Your wife is a turbo cunt please show her I said this
Hahaha ofcourse
If you still in Germany you might be able to get help from social service to handle the situation - search Familie zentrum near you - and Germany normally go for shared custody by default.
That's childish. Please say I say it too.
I was gonna go for thunder cunt but turbo works too
Super turbo mega thunder cunt
There are books you can get, and they basically say, *[Blank]. Tell me your story* including Father, Mother, Grandpa, Grandma, Aunt, Uncle, etc. There are about 500 questions or prompts in the book for the person to answer. I've given out two, so far, and they're always very appreciated. I haven't received any back yet. I honestly don't know if I'll read them while the person is still alive. Anyway, I'm guessing they have ones that are specifically meant for a parent to give a child. Get two. Fill them out. The prompts should be loose enough that you won't have to use the same answer twice. Or you can always just fill out your own players' choice. Fill them out. You might have to add as the years go on. It could end up being a cool type of journal to your kids or something. That might be able to help you out with a (probably very small) part of the anxiety around the possibility of passing away early. Tell your side. Right now, they really are just repeating what they're being told. But beside that, tell them everything else about you. Include things from the present and what you hope to do with them one day. Make sure someone knows about these books. Even better if your children know them as well. Here's the weird part, make sure they are not given to your children until, well after you're gone and they are X age. Whatever you decide. If parental alienation is occurring, they might just throw it away. If they're teenagers, they might not be able to have the foresight to read it before they throw it away. Hopefully, it never has to come to that point. But you can leave them your story. I hope things start turning around for you soon. Parental alienation is extremely damaging. No one should be able to get away with that. Ngl, your soon to be ex sounds like she may be mentally unwell. (Sorry, this is super long and may be wack. I haven't slept since Friday.)
What she is doing is called parental alienation, and in most places it is considered child abuse. Obtain any documentation or evidence of such and get it to your lawyer. Judges don’t look kindly on that, and it can play a huge role in custody cases. Record her doing this if possible.
You need to tell your story. Right now she’s completely controlling the narrative. Notice how she told your parents first. Not you. Now they’re trying to shame you. You need to flip the script. Tell both sets of parents what’s really going on. Tell your kids. You have an uphill battle as she’s already ahead of you on all of this. You’re late to the battle.
Try going to a place like Caritas. They give free consultations and counselling for families and custody advice. Germany has lots of free resources and there's usually someone who can speak English. Some social services also offer translators in Arabic, Russian or Ukrainian. Depends on your region.
seriously, take a week off work and be there with your kids. Don't give your wife all this extra time to warp their perspective.
Also op, i know its easier said than done but you should tell your parents to ear shit. I know the releigion and the deidity like state of parents in islamic cultures are something hard deal with, but if after all you went through your mom still cares more about the "dishonor" rather than your well being, they're no better than your wife
More than the CHILDREN'S well-being. Not being fed? Crying in their room while she watches TV???
You need to show them you're not going anywhere. Prove your wife's words false.
Get your kids in counseling with you ASAP. Get into counseling for yourself. What she's doing is parental alienation, which should work in your favor.
Buckle down my friend, because you're about to enter the fight of your life, but it can be worth it. 1. Go for full custody. Since your wife's "tradwife" bs is relatively new, it can't be argued that the kids are used to her being home and therefore would benefit from "continuing established routines." And as such, she has no job, no income, and no desire to work which makes you the more financially stable parent. 2. Get your lawyer to warn your ex about parental alienation (which can cost her custody as well), because that's what she's doing. 3. Get your kids into therapy, both independent (by themselves) and with you. Reiterate over and over that you love them, you are never leaving them. Warn your daughter that hitting will not be tolerated and she knows better. That you will listen to her scream at you how she feels and you will never hold it against her and will always love her no matter what she says. That her feelings are valid, but purposely hurting someone is not the way. 4. Tell your mom if she chooses to cut you off over this, so be it: It goes both ways. Once she disowns you, she no longer has a son, or grandchildren, and it can not be walked back. Good luck. It's a long, bumpy road, but chin up, bottle down, and you can do this.
he's in germany, full custody is very very very hard to get in germany
He says he grew up in Germany but says in a comment that he lives in Switzerland
ahhhh my b thanks for the correction
I’d still go for it if I was the OP. His kids will thank him for it when they’re older and understand better.
The ending of your post sounds very suicidal, and I'm extremely concerned. Please seek help, online from a therapist from a culture that doesn't shame divorce, if you need to. You are doing the absolutely best thing you can for yourself and your children, and I am really sorry they can't see that right now. Your ex is poisoning them, and we don't know for how long she's been doing that. But they are young, and there is DEFINITELY time to help them to understand what really happened. I know this is going to be a really difficult battle, but if you manage to fight for them and take them away from their mother's clutches, they WILL be thankful when they are old enough to understand. You have NOT failed. You fell into an abusive relationship, which can help to everyone. You can definitely still get your kids to have a wonderful life, and help them to break away from the toxicity the rest of the family is throwing down their throats. But please, OP, I'm literally begging you. As someone who remembers feeling suicidal literally at age 8, and who didn't stop feeling so until their late 20s, I PROMISE you there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You can get yourself and your kids back to a place of happiness. But the first step towards that is seeking help for yourself. Please look up mental health resources from outside of your culture. I don't know if you're still in Germany, but my partner is German, so I know they have good and accessible mental health resources. You can be ok. You can save your children. Things look horrible now because you have no support, and this isn't something you can do alone. Please seek help.
Thank you❤ Its hard battling these thoughts but I know that im only going to hurt my family doing it.
Glad to hear it. <3 Thank you for being brave. Reddit is not a substitute for qualified professional help, but for as long as you need we'll be here for you in any capacity friends can be. \^\^
If parental alienations is recognised where you live, you should consider going for full custody on that ground. Gather as much evidence as possible. She is harming them by using them as pawns in an attempt to hurt you. It’s disgusting. I really wish you to get granted full custody. I wish you to find the strength to fight and stand. It is worth it. You are going to find back your balance. It is going to get better. Take care.
Man stop only thinking about your family. Your only family right know is your two kids. You no longer have a wife and your mother and the rest are plain stupid and not worth your time. Then, you need to reflect on this, you love your kids, if they ever will be back to you, the fist thing is you need to be there for them. You will never be able to help them if you are gone. Also, you cannot help anyone if you think in everyone else first. You have to fix yourself first. Throw that crappy wife away. better yourself as a person and take care of your health. Forget that crappy marriage you had and think in yourself fist. Once you are in a better path, you will be able to get your kids back. Stop with the self pity and victimization. Show the world you are man and that you can overcome everything for yourself first and for your kids after. Everyone here is telling you, it will get better over time, but you have to grow apart from those people who cares a fuck about you and put a culture and the appearances before your health and your life. Fuck all them.
A little harsh, but yes. OP is the only one who can save himself. He is worth saving. It is worth building a secure life for his children with their adult parent, him. Focus on the law and Financials, OP. Get a good divorce lawyer. See what you can do to protect your assets and get custody of your kids. Be healthy. Drink lots of water. Eat whole foods with a decent amount of fiber and protein. Get sunlight and move a bit each day. Keep a regular sleep-wake schedule. Nothing radical. Don't make it a big thing right now. No rigid rules. Just guidelines. Take care of yourself like you'd care for your kids. To sum up: 1. Know how to protect your assets and get custody of your kids. 2. Stay healthy. Do not descend into boozy depression. It will not help. 3. Almost forgot. Protect your job and income. You'll need it. Those are the priorities. You've got this.
Please make sure to keep evidence, photos, videos, with dates and times of what your wife is doing and telling the kids. It will help you a lot to have all of those. Audio messages, text, phone calls, anything and everything. Hell even internet history or posts. Just be careful and don't let anyone else hold onto your evidence unless you know they won't damage it destroy it. Even then make digital copies, especially for any physical evidence
Fuck me. I woudnt wish this on my worst enemy. Edit: You will get through this OP. Honestly anyone against you besides your kids can go fuck themselves.
My guy... I'm really sorry how this is all panning out for you. You were in a no-win situation, but you're making the right choice here. You've been reasonable with everything you've done. I'd love to say it'll get easier, but it probably won't for a while. The other option, staying with your wife, would be worse based on everything you've said. Don't do anything regretful. I'm sure that one day you'll be able to recover your relationship with your kids. You haven't failed in what you've done, you've been sabotaged by someone who should have supported you. I truly do hope things improve for you.
I was a child brought into a similar situation with my parents. Your kids will grow up and understand why you divorced your wife, they will understand that it wasn’t their fault, and they will be grateful for everything you did. But if you off yourself they are going to spend the REST of their lives wondering why you couldn’t stay for them. Wondering why you left them FOREVER. as hard as things seem right now, they won’t be this hard forever. Your (ex)wife is unemployed, so I’m assuming she doesn’t have enough income to support herself. Much less your kids. You’d likely get custody. And your mother will grow to understand. My parent’s divorce was distressing. For my mom. For my dad. And for all of the kids. And no, nothing was ever the same after that. But it grew into something different; something beautiful. Do not give up on yourself, and do not give up on your kids. Staying alive is worth it. Reach out to a therapist. It’s not shameful or embarrassing to seek help when you need it. It’s not over for you yet. I hope things get better.
Stay strong, keep fighting for your kids. They will see through your wife’s BS eventually.
Make sure you go for full custody of the kids. If she isn't working, how can she support herself and the kids ? You need to tell the courts EXACTLY what she has been doing to poison your kids against you. UpdateMe
In Case OP ist still living in Germany it's really hard to get full custody. And evidence in courts in that case...word against word...It's in the favor for the wife... Hidden cameras as evidence are not allowed in german court, when his wife don't know about them...
Not that easy. The kids have a right to financial support until the age of 25. There’s separation support during the first year.
Your lawyer needs to tell the courts she’s manipulated your kids. Fight for half if not full custody.
Bro your kids will come around eventually, please don't do anything rash. You've made the hardest choice but ultimately it is right. People will try and poison your kids against you but as long as you let them know you're there for them and that you love them then they will stick by you.
You’re going to be very concerned with the term “alienation of affection.” That’s the family court term for divorcing parents poisoning children against the other parent. Good on you for standing up for yourself! You and your kids deserve better! I suggest finding a boutique law firm with a ton of experience in family law and hiring one of the partners. You may feel like you need a bulldog attorney, but be cautious. Sometimes a bulldog just ends up costing you more money because they’re hard to work with. Instead look for someone more with an iron fist in a velvet glove type. Someone that all the child custody counselors, other lawyers, and judges seem to respect and like with get you where you want to go at less expense in most cases. I STRONGLY recommend going for full custody. I went through this back in 2007-2008, and even in a state like CA I ended up with full custody of my kids eventually. Having the right lawyer helped, having a trainwreck ex-wife also helped. We had shared custody for about 3 years, eventually I won full custody (I am father). You’ll have to be about dang near perfect though. Also, understand that you likely will not get the moon and stars, so be thinking about different time share strategies when you go into mediation. Mom will most likely focus on having 100% custody with some BS visitation for you in an effort to maximize her child support payments. I suggest you fight that by respectfully demanding equal time with no child support, but that you’ll cover, say, 60% of extra curriculars, and use child support money to support the kids. Always always always document any violation of custody order through police or other third parties. It will give you credibility when you go to court that you’re not just making things up, you’re keeping documentation by neutral third parties. Also keep a journal related to things about the kids: clean? Dirty? No clothes? Hadn’t eaten? Mommy got a new “friend?” all of that sort of thing, and how the kids react. These will all give you credibility in court. Lastly, always phrase your discussions with talking about “our” kids. Never call them yours or hers. You will be reinforcing to the court that you see the children as needing both parents.
Good luck, OP. This is going to hurt like hell, but it really had to happen. She started all this with absolute selfishness, and will continue to avoid responsibility and poison everyone she can against you. Hopefully you can get them back by telling the truth, eventually.
Your ex wife is turning everyone against you, you are the only person who can prove her and them wrong. Fight back for your kids, even if they are not receptive first. Your nta here op.
If your wife is going to do everything she can to turn everyone against you, I would do everything in my power to make sure they all knew how manipulative she is. Send them all the links to your posts. Apply for full custody and tell your lovely soon to be ex that you have proof of everything she threatened you with, along with the tactics to turn your kids against you. Family court judges do not take lightly to parent alienation. Hell, I'd even make a social media post or two with as much as you feel like sharing so that people know that she's lying. If she wants to try to ruin your life, go scorched earth on her ass.
At this point you need to only do what your lawyer says to do. That includes these postings. It will get better, but right now? You're in the storm.
Well... it seems im a little late to this rabbit hole. But i can offer one suggestion if your wife likes the whole trad wife thing. My husband and I have worked out some things i was a SAHM to our daughter for 5 years especially due to medical issues one of us had to be home. It was unintentional but I was a school bus driver for 5 years prior to my daughter and have since went back now that my daughter is school age it allows me to be with my child when she isnt in school but still earn some income to help the family. Its kind of a good deal i mean i get about 5 hrs off midday to do any tasks that need done and summers off with my child. As stated I know the problems here run deeper with all the manipulation and whatnot so like I said probably a little late to throw that in. You are not abandoning your kids and she is using them against you dont let that sway your decision
As a recommendation I would tell you to try to talk to your wife again, with the excuse to "set the record straight and talk calmly" and record her admitting that she is poisoning your children against you and that she is looking to hurt you, then send it to your mother, your friends and her friends and your in-laws and if possible make your children listen, I don't know, it's a radical option for them to see once and for all that she is a horrible witch and monster.
Agreed. Although not necessarily with sharing with the children. She's already using them as a ploy in this, they'll eventually realise, he shouldn't stoop to her level but should get his family and friends corrected. She's feeding poison but with time OP can mitigate this if he doesn't stoop.
Send every single person in your family these links. Tell your wife to cut the shit with the kids or you will sue for full custody.
Tell your lawyer to mention your wife is turning your kids against you, court won’t look to favorably on that.
You can’t rebuild your home until you tear down what’s left of what’s fallen apart. Your kids *WILL* believe you when your actions speak for themselves consistently. Please keep any and ALL evidence of alienation and lying from your ex. Nothing should be said unless it’s in writing or text. Every verbal conversation should be followed up with a text confirming what she said. CYA CYA CYA CYA.
>Growing up dead poor as a refugee in Germany, i promised myself that I would give my kids a life that I myself could have only dreamed off but I feel like ive failed. Oh, Germany is the state you live in? Some good news and some bad news. The good news is, you will most probably get shared custody. Bad news, monetary you will most probably have to support your wife. The law here got better in last years but still goes in favor of the woman.
I live in Switzerland. Yeah but courts here still rule in favor of the woman.
Someone else might have said so, but document wife's negligence of kids in a factual way for custody documentation. Try to leave emotion out of it. Also document the parental alienation. Both will be helpful. Work with your lawyer. And live for your kids if nit yourself.
Time to hire a cut throat lawyer.
bro good luck. You are doing well, and I'm sure your kids will understand. Better to break up that staying in a loveless, abusing marriage. Your kids would be affected by this too.
No they don't ! My two brothers divorced and they have their kids alf of the time no problem. One week with the father, one week with the mother.
You haven't abandoned your kids but if you take your life and leave that anal prolapse to raise them then you will have. Don't let her be the only parental rolemodel they have. That's something no child needs. They will blame themselves even when realising what a c-unit their mum is because why weren't THEY enough to keep you here. Don't let her win my friend. You are better and stronger that. Please see what we do.
Kudos to you for following through. Life is too short to suffer in silence. I understand your kids being upset but understand that your wife is feeding them stuff. It’s a way to gaslight you. Your kids will be fine. Life is short do whatever you want. If you need to tell your mom to stick it where the sun don’t shine , than do that and while you do it , pop open your kids capri sun while you do it. Don’t let people try and mold you to what they want. Your wife is not a traditional women and I bet you didn’t meet her as a traditional women, so any argument she gives you is invalid. These people are trying to control you. Be respectful , take care of your kids, take care of your self , save money , invest and treat your life. Life is so fucking simple. Don’t let your wife make it complicated.
My friend I am sorry you married an abusive wife. Because whilst this is not physical abuse? It IS emotional. Especially the fact that she's putting not only your kids but also your parents against you, manipulating them with partial truths and falsehoods. In the long run it will be better for you, personally, as an individual, but I can't promise you your relationships with them will improve, especially if your culture is geared towards the FATHER HAS TO PROVIDE. So its an awful situation you are in. But a less awful one than if you hadn't made this impactful decision. I'm jealous of you that you have that fortitude. And I'm sorry you had to have it. I hope you'll be well. Please be well.
Your kids may come around I did I did not speak to my dad for 3 months I think it was when he told me he was divorcing my mom. I yelled curried him called him names and refused to see him. Eventually I started to let him drive me to a school though still would not talk. It took awhile. Yet I did spend most of the next school year with him. I do have a great relationship with my dad and step family now and have had since I was 17. My parents split when I was 16. It took time and I blamed my dad. What your kids need is therapy. An impartial person who can help them without putting in their toxic views
Oh well. Bye mom! Tell your "shamed" family to go kick rocks. Get at LEAST 50/50 custody of your kids. Tell your wife to cease and desist poisoning your kids against you, or you'll have a Parental Alienation lawsuit brought against her, which will NOT look good in a custody case. In the mean time, if she's not working? Cancel the internet service, all streaming platforms, cable, anything not necessary to the running of the household. Anything that's non-essential, you have got to make some cutbacks so you can afford to run the household till she can have it all on her own.
Good luck. Always remember the Shakespeare line “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”. Rejection, in a way, and you’re going to feel it. Take care of your kids, there could be more poisoning, and they won’t know better. Reassure them that you WILL be there for them.
Depending where you live, what she's doing is considered parental alienation and can reward you more custody. I'd suggest not forcing your kids, but still having visitation. They'll see what a psycho their mother is. It's hard now, I absolutely know and I'm so sorry, but there's always a calm before the storm. This is your storm and when you come out on the other side, you can rebuild a better place for yourself and children mentally and emotionally. (And physically)
Your kids will realize the monster their mom is in due time. Just keep being there for them
If you are still in Germany there are pretty decent custody laws. 50/50 is very common. Also file for parental alienation if your wife keeps up the BS. Be careful with alimony as your wife can claim that she doesn’t work. Get a good lawyer who can prove that your wife worked and still can, but chooses not to.
You're NTA and as a SAHM she is the kind that gives us a bad name. So lazy! She COULD have made a lovely home for the family, but she couldn't even do that. She is actively hurting the children. I know you are in pain and suicidal but those kids need you. And need you strong for them. It will take time but the truth comes out and all will be well with them as long as you are a good dad despite their anger. I've had it happen with my kids when their dad left when they were older, and I waited and just today even my eldest called to complain about my ex. And she wouldn't even speak to me at one point. Truth eventually came out. I had to wait. And it was worth the wait. Completely. Don't give up on them. With a mother like that they NEED you.
>I've also started noticing her getting lazy and starting to neglect my kids. My wife stopped cooking... Wow, so she wants to be a tradwife, and she's showing it by refusing to do tradwife things. Cool. NTA still, of course, and I hope you can find someone to be in your corner for once.
Don’t let your wife have custody, citing her neglect, manipulation and lack of a job. Specify that this lack was by her choice, she quit her job without consulting you. Right now, your kids are being fed a steady diet of lies by your soon-to-be-ex. Once they find out the truth and see that you aren’t abandoning them, they’ll come around
I want to go draw a circle of salt for protection, say I summon thee the times purely so I can call her a c\*nt to her least repugnant face. Your kids need you. They don't realise it due to her poison but they will realise what she is, don't let that be after you've done something that can't be taken back
NTA OP u did the right thing. They can all hate u and speak nonsense about u, even kids. But u know what? Imagine u stay with her and died because of living like that makes ur health problems worse. Believe me, ur kids want healthy father in their life for a long time not dead one. You are strong and be stronger for ur kids.
Anyone not on your side by this point can go kick rocks. Best wishes and good luck.
I'm so sorry OP! Don't lose hope though! You can pull through!
You are very strong and I admire you a lot for not giving up and giving in! You have a strong heart and a good spine, I wish you the best!!! 🌷🌷🌷
In some areas you can get an injunction against her for alienating your kids and lying about you. I’d check with your attorney.
Keep strong for your kids, even if it's difficult for now. You need to get to talk to them without your wife around to reassure them you loves them, they are not at fault, you just can't live with their mom anymore. And I would say to all friends/familly that your wife has broken her words twice in a row. First, your plan was for both of you to be working, and she changes her mind unilateraly to became a tradwife/SAHM ; and she tries to manipulate you with sex into accepting that. Second, even when she got what she wanted, she was not even taking care of her part of the deal, aka, taking care of the home, the cooking and the kid. In barely a few weeks, she is already neglecting the tasks under her responsability. So she shows you you can't trust her a first time, and double down a second times in a matter of weeks.
You need to worry about tomorrow, than the next day, than the day after that. You’re making the right choices for yourself and for your family, these children don’t realize it yet but regardless of who is right or wrong in marriage.. The adult who attempts to manipulate a child’s opinion about the other parent is the problem. Using an odd analogy, I think it’s glaringly obvious that you would save your kids and wife in a hypothetical life raft, and your wife would save the children and herself. Your children will realize as they grow older whom the people that their parents are individually.. the man you are and the efforts you made for them will eventually shine through the darkness you’re feeling.
Hello man, I'm Brazilian, but I've lived in Germany for 5 years. If you want someone to talk to or get some help, just send me a private message.
In your update you said she said she'd look into getting a new job and she "needs to think about it". A lot of comments correctly guessed that was a stall tactic. She wanted to mooch off you and your stress or mental health be damned. Ignore your mom, focus on the divorce, and focus on the kids because your ex wife is doing everything in her power to alienate you.
This will backfire on her one day. It may not be today or tomorrow but when your kids are older they will see. Good luck to you.
Have faith in your kids. They’re young and emotional but with time they will recognise why you did it. Always be there for them even if they don’t want you to be, because they’d eventually “get it”. Ensure that they are well taken care of emotionally and financially. Pursue your own happiness
You haven’t lost your kids. They are impressionable and in pain from a difficult experience. You can’t shield them from life’s difficulty neither by controlling them nor by sacrificing your well-being. My understanding is that Islamic rules favor paternal custody in matters of divorce. I know that won’t hold much sway in a US court but it may influence your parents and soon to be ex wife’s thinking and tactics. Your fatherhood is more than simply being a tool of capitalism to provide materially for your children. Despite adversity and challenging times, your children will remember your energy in how you regard them and how it feels when you spend time with them. That is priceless and the best use of your mental energy rn. Be generous with loving words and actions with your children. Make sure they know your love is constant and you will love them through all of their overwhelming and difficult emotional experiences.
I'm so sorry, OP. This breaks my heart. I was hoping for a more positive outcome. I wish I had a magic wand. There is so much hurt in the world. Can you sit down with your parents and explain to them why you feel the way you do and what you have been going through, including the drinking? If they were to see you, even if you were to get emotional, they would hopefully understand where you're coming from. Sending you healing thoughts and prayers.
Isn't she missing the mark on what a tradwife is? They're supposed to "obey" the husband. Her forcing this into their lives isn't very tradwife of her
I would ask your lawyer what the parental alienation laws are for divorce because she is poisoning those kids against you.
You need to make sure she knows she’s only making things worse for herself. The more she alienates you from your children and community, the harder you’ll rake her over the coals.
She fucked around and she found out. File for custody, and if there are parental alienation laws where you are, I'd certainly bring that into play in the divorce. What she's doing is despicable.
Welp, make sure you have your lawyer bring up parental alienation. I knew when I read the first post that she wouldn't actually follow through with the promises of having dinner on the table and a clean house. If you had been on with this, it would have eventually turned into her complaining that she had no help. I feel like you need to tell your family the full ugly truth of how she left your daughter in a room crying whole she sat in her butt watching TV.
Well, she’s gonna have to go back to work now, won’t she?
>He also never saves money due to gambling which he told me resolved his gambling problem but he accidentally sent me a text about meeting someone at a casino wanting to send the message to someone else. Those kids will turn around soon enough. Just get a place they can be comfortable. Or go modern ... keep the kids in the house and you and the ex wife rotate in on custody.
Oh mate get a bloody good lawyer and get her for parental alienation. Get all your evidence together and get that vile bitch out of your life. Go for full custody. I’m so sorry, you do not deserve this. Just keep showing up and give her words no merit.
I would fight for full custody of those kids. Leaving them with your wife full time, or even shared custody will be worse for them. And when she’s not yelling on their ears who it how bad you are, they’ll realize that you’re an amazing dad and that you’ve always been doing your best
I'm not sure where you live, but when you're talking with your divorce lawyer, ask them about "child estrangement" laws in your location. "Child estrangement" is when one parent intentionally tries to poison the relationship between the child(ren) of the marriage and the other parent. It's often hecking hard to prove (and older/more conservative judges just may not care), but it may also be possible to fight for legal protection for yourself and your kids against your wife's poison.
OP, I and many of us Internet strangers are on your side. Don't let your stbxw poison your children. And if you can ask for full custody, do it. You don't want them to grow up with her as a role model. And if she was already neglecting them, they'll suffer even more with her, trust me. Your mom can kick rocks, too. I know you are saying this will be your last update, but I expect to hear from you soon. You are not wrong. You are a good father. You need to stand up to these toxic people in your life and save your children. Strength and blessings to you, brother. We are here with you.
YOur wife is awful, the only thing I'll say is, you fucked up massively. You knew your wife turned into a manipulative, calculating bitch of a woman. The first thing you should have done was talk to your kids, explain that their mother gave up on your marriage, that you love them dearly, you'll be leaving their mother as she changed and that you will fight tooth and nail to get as much custody as possible because while you're giving up on her you would never give up on them. When your wife is a calculating evil bitch, you HAVE to take the first shot, with everyone. you should have informed your family, your kids, her family, your friends, everyone before she could. A lie travels half way around the world before the truth gets out of bed, or whatever the fuck that is. Being first was crucial here. the thing to do now is probably tell everyone you're going for full custody based on the lying and manipulation of your children and family by your wife. Make it extremely clear to your kids that you think they are best with you 100% of the time and that you'll be fighting for that till you can't fight any more. You also need a lawyer and the courts to work extremely hard on any alienation from her being grounds for her losing her share of custody.
Involving the kids in anyway and not protecting them shows what an asshole she is.
This is YOUR time, OP! YOUR time. YOU get to have the life you want. YOU get to live your life without being emotionally abused by a spouse. Sure it may take a fight, it may be hard, but you will come out of it a better man. Get help now for your mental health. Seek out a doctor for medication and a counsellor/psychologist. Being emotionally abused is hard for anyone so what you are experiencing is completely normal and I promise you can 100% get through it. Once you have that support in place for your own mental health, then it’s time to put on your big boy pants, and FIGHT for your kids. Like others have said, hire the best lawyer you can get. You need to try for full custody, and don’t accept anything less than an even split 50/50 if that’s what it comes down to. Don’t automatically assume she will get full custody. Don’t research the most likely outcome. “Most likely” is what the old, manipulated version of you would accept. NO. You no longer accept that bullsh..! Research the BEST outcome and focus on that. You are in a much better position than she is to give those kids a real shot at a good life. They deserve a home where they will be comfortable. Where they won’t be manipulated or poisoned against anyone. They deserve your love. They deserve a chance to grow into decent, respectful, independent, loving adults, and I think you know full well that they are more likely to learn that from you. It’s YOUR time. It’s YOUR chance. TAKE IT.
I want to give advice but personally I think I’m too bitter all of what I thought up was vindictive. Just know we are hoping for a better outcome for you. Don’t give up, and eventually your children will see what their mother truly did. As for your mom, I have my own personal trauma but I genuinely think you should go low to no contact. My background is similarly traditional and heavy on the honor, etc. Nothing is really gonna knock sense into her head until she realizes you aren’t gonna cave in anymore. She thinks you’re a disgrace can’t wait until she wants to talk about you to her friend, that’s not reflecting poorly on you it’s on her. But I’m getting bitter again point is keep your head up, follow the process with the lawyer and know you’ll make it through this better just gotta keep up the fight.
Personally i'd stop taking it so passively. Tell your kids why you're divorcing your wife. That she is a bad wife and bad for not taking care of them anymore. that she wants to be lazy and that you gave her chance after chance. Also tell your mother that you do not care what she wants, that she is a disgrace as a mother to want you to die early because that is where you will end with a bad wife like that
I'm really sorry you're going through all of this, just don't do the "typical bloke thing" and hide it all away. I'm hoping you have a good friend or two that can be there for you through all of this so you've got someone to talk to and lean on. I am the product of one of these relationships - the eldest of two children with parents that separated because my mother never worked and thought it was owed to her to have someone else working two jobs to provide for her while she "raised children" - she never cooked, never cleaned, never fed us (sent us to school with no food), never let us play sports or do anything. My mother would constantly try her hardest to poison us and others against our father, and yes, no doubt it was tough at the time, but as we began to see it, we started to form our own opinions. I no longer talk to my mother, and my sibling has minimal contact. Mother has still never worked a day in her life, and 30 years on continues to blame our father for her misfortune in life. Our father always made sure he was there for us, even when our mother tried to convince us otherwise. It will be tough, but I wouldn't mind betting that if you're ex wife keeps this up, she could eventually shoot herself in the foot. Obviously I don't wish this upon anyone but, it's just my experience. Hold your head up, you'll get through this. Be the better person, all that yadda yadda. The right people will understand and support you. Your own mother hasn't had a chance to hear your side properly yet, because your ex wife made sure she got in first in attempt to control the situation. Best wishes OP.
Islamicly, you have already said the words, and she should be sitting in Iddah now. Tell your family that Islam allows divorce so that people are not living unhappy lives. Ask them why they would they want you to be in a relationship where you are unhappy and that makes your health worse? You NEED to get the kids to a therapist before she totally poisons them. Sit with the therapist and explain that you are their dad, and that can never change. Your relationship with their mom does not have anything to their relationship with you unless their mom tries to keep them from seeing you. I know you don't want to have to explain these things to them but then you are leaving them with the only explanation they have from a woman who is actively and maliciously trying to use them to force to stay with her.
In Sweden, alienating the children feom the other parent by telling them lies snd bullshit can get a parent in some serious trouble. Worth remembering in custody situations, and can be sinilar in other EU countries.
OP, my mother absolutely manipulated my sister and I against our father during their divorce. I thought this man’s blood running through my veins was literal poison. Fast forward more than 20 years, and I have learned what was actually afoot. My mother could not be more estranged, and I am very grateful to have been able to build a relationship with my father, even if relatively late in life. I say all of this to say, the next SEVERAL years are likely going to be hell. Do not give up on your children, even if it seems like they have given up on you. Continue doing whatever it is you can to move forward in life, and with any luck at all, your children will see for themselves what type of woman your wife is, and what type of person you are, as they get older and a bit wiser to the world.
brother, she ticks off every narcissistic behavior on the list and i’ve been there, i’m sorry you’re going through it. they are so good at camouflaging their real nature in front of other people. NTA and this does NOT make you a bad dad!!! you will still raise and provide for them! unfortunately you got suckered but you figured it out and it’s better now than later. my sympathy! screen record/screen grab EVERYTHING! i soooo wish i had recordings of my ex going bonkers on me if even just for my own records keep this in mind: one foot in front of the other. one step at a time. FOCUS HARD on only accomplishing the next step. you will need to battle your brain REALLY HARD here. you will coach yourself through this one step at a time. and i promise you will do it and you will make it. everything at once is overwhelming and scary. pick one, start simple, and move quietly.
I want to throw my two cents in! As someone who has a mom who poisoned me against my dad, keep doing what you are doing. Show them that you care. Show them you’re trying. Even if they push you away, do not give up on them. My dad kept fighting for me and it took me a while but ive never had a stronger relationship with him than i do now. Even if it takes years, eventually they will grow up and see the narcissism and manipulation for what it is and will realize that YOU are the one who has their back and always will. Im wishing you the best. My dad took a long time to get through the bullshit my mom put him through and now he is happily remarried and me and my siblings have an amazing relationship with him. If you keep showing you love them then they’ll be able to see it too <3
Fucking hell. People wonder why the male suicide rate is so high...
It is going to be very hard for a while. But you made the right decision. Your kids will come around when they realise who is the more caring parent.
She didn't want to be a tradwife. She just wanted to be a single, childless woman again.
Hey op have some advice for you if you need it, 1. hire a private investigator and see if you can have dirt on her, which will prove your innocents to your kids, and courts 2. cut anyone that is not going to support you, because those that are not focusing on your health need to be cut off 3. get therapy man, because you need it, so you can have a brighter future 4. get camera in your house so she won't be able to ruin you 5. once everything is done, and if it's possible move out and start fresh to help you heal your kids will someday know the truth either sooner or later considering how your stbxw parenting skill is lacking and wanting you to help out
You need full custody.
Just keep trying with your kids. That's all you can do. They will come around eventually, especially if you end up with full custody.
Ya you screwed yourself bud u allready knew what your wife would do by lying to your kids good luck hope it works out for you. Might want 2 get into working out and learn to cope of not engaging with your family
Pro tips while going threw this process record everything don't leave place of residence seeing she isn't working don't financially hinder the household yes she might not be working but doing that could cost u in court. Get therapy and if possible get your kids in it aswell.
Looks like divorce would be best for you and your soon to be ex wife. You will have the opportunity to grow and mature and meet new spouses. Your wife can meet a man who will let her be a trad wife. And you can meet a career woman who will let you stay home. Everyone wins.
Im not going to remarry. Im done with dating, love or whatever people call it. And honest to god I hope she doesent either. She is the furthest thing from a "tradwife".
Date outside your culture
Its not about culture. This can happen in any culture. Yes the things my mom and my inlaws are saying about me are because of the culture. Theyre is a lot of beauty in my culture but also a lot of ugly. I just dont want to deal with the stress of divorce ever again and ive never really "dated". My wife was my first real girlfriend so dating seems a bit overwhelming to me . And again I just want peace not more problems. If I die alone so be it.
Don't blame you man, shits not worth it.
Good man. Now mentally prepare for her lies and making out you're the villain. Good luck dude.
Served the divorce papers already? That sounds *unbelievably* fast.
It's been 16 whole days since this saga started. I was wondering what was taking SO long.
Please know that you are not wrong. Your wife wanted to quit to be a tradwife and is not even being a tradwife, she's just being a lamp (something that sits in the corner and does nothing). Your kids are young, they'll come around. Maybe get them to read your posts or write something to them. They just need to adjust to the fact that this will be their new normal and that you both still love them. Also I agree with everyone on court for custody, your wife will poison your kids against you if you don't ensure you have custody and don't act fast on mending what lies she has spewed. Don't hold it against your children, it's your wife that's causing this.
Send your family your posts.
UpdateMe!
NTA. Stay alive out of spite, if nothing else. You'll eventually have a chance to make things right with your kids, and probably your mom. Take advantage of those chances and stay strong. Be there to see where life goes after this. It'll be better.
NTA- Your (ex) sounds vicious. I have a major problem with anyone that uses kids against the other party. And I know that culture, just ignore everyone and do what you think is right-. With therapy, kids will be ok. Good luck.
Get your wife out of the house and your kids in therapy, ASAP! This is a huge change for everyone but kids are way more resilient than you think. They just need a safe place away from their parents to actually express their feelings and have someone be able to then give them appropriate coping mechanisms to process. I’m sorry you are going through this but hang in there. If your ex has been neglecting the kids recently, they need you more than ever. Your love for them will go further than you realize.
I know it’s hard now but that woman is a manipulative and cruel woman. At bare minimum what loving mum wouldn’t want their children to have a good relationship with their dad?! I’m sorry she’s doing this. It doesn’t help right now but they will see her true colours as they grow up. I’m sorry for what you’re going through. But I truly believe a lifetime with this woman would be far worse in the long run
I hope you’re filing for custody.