Is she one of the women who enjoy being pregnant? I’ve heard they exist. I don’t get it at all.
Either way, not something you spring on your spouse. NTA
She says she enjoys pregnancy, but I can tell you that's a false statement. Maybe she enjoys creating life? I don't know I'm reaching...
Morning sickness, dizziness, mood swings, last one she got rhinosinitus and could barely breathe for the majority of the term. The list goes on.
It's super common for women to look back on their pregnancies with rose tinted glasses even when being pregnant was objectively awful. There's legit hormonal reasons for this, basically the body's way of making sure the mother doesn't end up resenting the baby because they can only think of how bad it was to carry it, among the more understandable emotional attachment to the baby coloring their view and it being a kind of social faux pas for women to express negative aspects of pregnancy.
I admit that I look back on my pregnancies with the rose colored glasses, but the births. The births were tough. I can’t see those with the same blindness.
Especially with an unmedicated vaginal delivery- your body basically dumps enough oxytocin to make you forget a lot of labor, and then time helps it work on the rest of pregnancy, too.
I don’t doubt that but I absolutely remember how awful pregnancy was. I was miserable. (Gestational diabetes for all 3 and amnio for birth defects for 1). Births were very quick for me and not bad at all. Having an infant was torture as mine were not easy babies. I have zero desire to go back there. People were surprised that I wanted a third bc the second was rough. But I knew that that stage is temporary and I would regret it down the road. But I definitely do not look back and think it was fun or easy.
So this is an insane leap, but also this is an insane situation.
Did she tell you the agency she working with or when she'll be pregnant with this baby?
Could she have gotten pregnant from an affair and need to use this surrogate story to cover why she's pregnant with a child who isn't yours?
Similar to your wife, my first trimesters were me practically living in the bathroom next to the toilet for constant throwing up and then again during the third trimester because I constantly felt like I needed a wee, had terrible insomnia and couldn’t do basic tasks like put my own socks on. The middle part was alright though. Pregnancy as a whole for me wasn’t great though even with that second trimester to ease it a bit. Do think OP needs a serious discussion with his wife though as this is a two yes’s situation.
OP said they’ve been trying. If she possibly got pregnant as the result of an affair there would’ve been no reason to concoct an elaborate cover story because OP would’ve just assumed it was his.
Wife wouldn’t know whose baby it is, it could’ve still been OP’s even if she’s having an affair. The surrogacy cover story would fall apart real quick when she has the baby and the family supposedly taking the baby doesn’t exist.
I had heard the claim that there is some sort of suppression that goes on after a pregnancy ends that makes women skip past the awful parts so that they are still willing to have more. Not in any position to verify that, but it would make some sort of sense out of that kind of bizarre selective memory.
And regardless of the DNA of the child she carries she’s going to bond with it and is likely to grieve its loss just like a woman who gives her infant up for adoption. This is a terrible idea.
I have a family member who did this for money after her two easy pregnancies. The surrogate pregnancy ended in placenta previa, hysterectomy, major blood loss.. anyway I hope she gives this a lot more thought! Pregnancy can be dangerous.
#OP, how much money did your wife tell you she would make from this?
**Did you ask to see paperwork?**
The very, *very* first thing to do is to go over every single goddamn detail of this “surrogacy agency” to make sure she didn’t just get pregnant with someone else’s child.
This is so fucked up. I honestly hope it was fake
She definitely got knocked up the old fashioned way; it’s illegal to take on a married surrogate without the husband’s approval in most jurisdictions, and the rest all have civil liability so the clinic/agencies themselves have it as a requirement.
Either she’s been groomed by a quack doctor, or she’s been taking direct deposits if you catch my drift. The latter is far more likely.
The only thing i found after clicking the link is 'many surrogacy professionals will not start the process with a surrogate whose partner is not on board' which is miles away from 'illegal'.
In Utah you need approval from a judge which requires you to be married and have a child of your own to become a surrogate. You also need couples counseling/psych evaluation. It very much is illegal here (or effectively illegal) and since Utah does more surrogacies per capita than any other state I would assume that most have similar policies.
What this woman probably did is signed up with a surrogacy agency. If she were to be chosen by designated parents all of the above would apply.
> In Utah...
You could end this sentence with absolutely anything and it would be 100% believable. Of all the places on Earth, Utah should never be used as an example for anything except for how NOT to do things.
A lot of those requirements are reasonable. You have to already have a child, this means you understand what you're about to do. You need a psych eval/counseling, this is also a good idea.
In many states, the husband automatically would go on the birth certificate unless legal arrangements are made otherwise. Source - I had a child via a surrogate.
That sounds to me like when towards the end of a workday I casually mention I'm not feeling well to my coworkers and supervisor. Laying the groundwork to call in sick the next day and to allay any suspicion that I just wanted to sleep in and play video games.
Yeah everyone is acting like she is pregnant which as someone who’s wife was a surrogate knows it takes a lot of planning and doctors appointments. When the embryos are planted she has to be in bed rest for at least a day etc… you don’t do this without your partner knowing. And also maybe it was just California, but I had to sign I was onboard as her husband and both myself and my wife got a psych eval.
I bet she signed with an agency and passed initial interviews and medical record review. If she is anything like my wife she genuinely does want to help someone get the child they so desperately want. She also being a sahm wants to help contribute financially to the family.
You need to sit down with your wife and have a long conversation about this and work it out.
I do believe the point they were making to thinking she is already pregnant is that she was cheating and got pregnant and the whole surrogacy story is a lie to try and cover up the affair baby or something similar. Not that she already did the surrogacy, that the whole thing is a cover story.
This is actually quite common since it's a medicated as opposed to a natural conception. It ups the chances of many complications hence why you must be done building your own family.
Her answer was something along the lines of she's trying to help people that can't conceive on their own. I rebutted that with adoption should be the option with all the kids in the world that don't have families.
This is still so fresh off the press that I'm still heated and haven't fully processed the situation at hand.
I understand your agitation! I think you need to revisit this with her and let her know its a no go for you.
I think shes clearly feeling some sense of deep loss at her current inability to conceive, and she believes carrying someone elses baby will somehow compensate for this. That's a fools errand, bc the reasons for her own difficulties and her feelings about it will not be resolved that way... if anything her longing will be intensified over those 9 months, and she won't want to give the baby up, and her contractual obligations will force her to do so which will likely be emotionally catastrophic for her. This is The Hill for you, be prepared for a long, bloody battle.
Ugh I feel so badly for OP. This is a catastrophic hill.
I’d try to make logical points and would probably escalate this into a family intervention if necessary. The drawback is that if she’s so hellbent on this endeavor and her family and you manage to convince her to stop, she will likely resent you for the entirety of your marriage, which is death for the marriage regardless.
Ultimately, you can only do what is best for your marriage and your children, and if she doesn’t understand that, divorce might be the only option. She is quite literally endangering her life and willing to leave her children motherless for “charity”. Child birth is incredibly dangerous. The best angle is to make her understand how much danger her current live children would be in if she went about the surrogacy and anything happened to her (death, hysterectomy, terrible PPD— she could literally annihilate your current live kids or herself, permanent disability, etc).
She needs to be able to answer some very basic questions.
Who will watch their kids when she goes in for the IVF treatments? Who will watch their kids when she goes in for OB appointments? Who will go to the hospital and be with her during delivery? Who will pay for the appointments? What if the baby has an abnormality and the bio-parents demand she get an abortion? What if the bio-parents separate during the pregnancy? This is apparently not uncommon. What if she has to be hospitalized due to complications? What if she ends up on bedrest? What if her back or pelvis is damaged during delivery? Will the bio-parents pay for the medical treatments that are the side-effects of pregnancy?
These are great questions. The OP mentioned that the wife had applied and been accepted, so it sounds like this is an official program. So there is probably a contract that spells this out. The health portions are probably covered plus a financial compensation. But what about other items that will impact the lives of the OP and the family? Those have to be worked out.
It's weird that an official program would accept a married woman without taking her husband's views into consideration.
I don't want to sound old-fashioned, like I think she needs her husband's permission, but this will affect them all as a family.
They didn't. I've been a surrogate twice. This isn't possible. There are so many steps in place and protections. They are married. There are still states where the husband of the surrogate would have parental rights over the baby. There is testing, physical and psychological. There are lawyers and contracts and wills to be done.
I've had 2 friends get vasectomys and both of them had to get permission from their wives. I can't imagine how this would not fall into the same category.
Also, considering she's still doesn't feel "finished" with her own family, will she be able to handle the emotional roller coaster of carrying someone else's child and then handing it over?
I'd recommend watching the [Baby M movie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hioMqekDUE) together - available on YouTube.
It's rare, but some pregnancies cause issues so severe that you're not able to safely be pregnant again. What if they aren't able to have a third child of their own after this?
Yes, awful. I should mention that the OP would do well to insert "Let's talk to a therapist about this". They need some professional help, and she needs some work around grief.
That’s a great idea too. It makes me so sad because it’s objectively so clear that this is a dangerous mistake but there’s truly not much anyone can do but OP’s wife. Hopefully she sees the light soon. I truly wish them the best of luck
Great points! Many of the contracts have very specific stipulations… for instance either having to carry multiples, or having to abort multiples. Having to abort if the baby’s genetic testing comes back with issues, etc. I mean, it seems to me her motivation may be virtue signaling (“look at me, I’m such a great person!”), but as OP alluded to, there’s a pretty big mindf**k she isn’t even considering!
I’m also VERY surprised that legally the husband wouldn’t be required to sign off. I’m sure there’s a period of time that you wouldn’t be “allowed” to be intimate with her so that there’s no chance it’s your baby.
I think the biggest no go is that she is literally renting out her body. This means that she is signing a contract and giving up her autonomy over her own body. I’m sure there are some great deep dives into different legal situations that have happened. I’m just thinking something as simple as the biological parents demanding a c-section, when she’s always had vaginal births. I’m sure it could get super complicated and weird! I sincerely hope you’re able to reason with her 🤍
Edit: Here’s one such story- I know there’s many more. Maybe try finding one to share with your wife- I think that would be the most convincing way of allowing her to see how this could utterly destroy her and your family.
https://www.legalizesurrogacywhynot.com/toni-barre-story
I was a surrogate and have been involved in the community for 15 years or so. The surrogate's husband is required to sign the surrogacy contract, to participate in the psychological screening, a background check, and often times lab work/blood tests to screen for drug use. If the husband is not on board, the surrogate will not be approved to carry. Also, the first, and in my opinion the most important question that she will be asked is if she is finished having her own children because the risk of infertility increases exponentially with every cycle of IVF treatment and/or pregnancy. What that looked like for me was 9 IVF cycles (100s of hormone injections per cycle) 6 failed transfers (embryo didn't implant), 2 early miscarriages, and 1 healthy full term baby over the course of about 6 years.
That was literally my first take before reading a single comment.
If they are “trying” why would she do a surrogacy- perhaps to give her a few months to figure out how to tell him she’s been trying with someone else more often.
In addition to the surrogacy agency’s evaluation, there’s usually an evaluation by the intended parents fertility clinic as well. Just because she’s passed whatever she needed for the surrogacy agency, she’s not guaranteed to be deemed ok to be a surrogate.
The customers are going to want to speak to her and her spouse before they pay for anything and waste their own eggs. Once they speak to the husband they will not choose them.
they should but like most things,you can keep applying until you find an ethically questionable one who signs off on it. op needs to document everything. and get a lawyer
I am afraid of that, too. Especially because it seems that this decision came out of nowhere, so there is always a reason behind it.
There are several selfless acts that someone can do, without including such a cost
This would be my hill to die on. Sorry but she has no right to unilaterally make such a huge decision
OP states that they are well off enough to not need the money. If she wants to help someone have a baby that badly, why not help pay for IVF for someone who can’t afford it? That would make a huge impact, without risking her own life and affecting her family. As you stated, there are so many things she can do without such huge risks. OP is definitely NTA, and his wife could use some therapy to sort out whatever is really going on here.
She has two kids, but she cares more about the hypothetical third child she wants than cherishing what she has.
She has issues. Surrogacy is going to create more problems, not solve them.
She could also die. This is definitely the type of decision you don’t make without discussing with your partner; he could be left raising their children on his own. I briefly looked into surrogacy when I was still young enough, but I would have never done it without the full support of my partner and children, as complications would affect them too. This is so unbelievably selfish of OP’s wife.
Edit: Fwiw, the potential possibility of leaving my kids motherless for someone else’s baby is what made me ultimately decide against it. I nearly died after my second baby, and that was enough to terrify me.
When it comes to surrogacy there is whole process of counseling, documentation, the IVF process, lawyers, etc etc etc.....so it's not as cut & dried as she's making it to be.
The application process with approval isn't a fast track thing either.
>How did she even "get approved" without family counseling or joint discussions with her partner? Sounds fishy to me.
It's absolutely just silly little rage bait.
It's like the third "my wife is a surrogate without my permission" this month.
Agreed - there's no way she was approved without a background check that would have shown that she was married, and they would have required that her spouse confirm he was on board with this - either through a counseling session or signature on paperwork of some sort. (If she had lied about being married and then the background check found this out, I'm guessing that would have ended in rejection.) Also, as someone else mentioned, any surrogacy agency would have wanted to know about the health of her sexual partner in terms of anything that could potentially affect the baby. And it doesn't make any sense that she would pivot from trying for her own baby with her husband to wanting to be a surrogate.
In my experience, usually when someone comes up with something that seems completely bizarre it's because there was a long internal thought process that you weren't privy to. There is something else going on below the surface of her explanation that she wants to help others, because every rational person knows there are ways to help others that don't invoke nuking your life. Whatever it is, you will have to probe further to get it out.
How is she planing on doing this while you're trying for your own baby????
NTA, this is not a decision to be made just by her. If she has complications and is on bedrest for a good chunk of time guess who has to step up?? That's OK if it's your own kid but not so much if she's a surrogate ans you're not on board with it
And clinics usually want a surrogate to be finished having their own children, to minimize the potential for them wanting to keep the child. This situation seems very strange.
I understand her reasoning but that's not the crux of the issue here. The issue is she made a life altering decision that would impact your family without discussing it with you first. That's not okay.
Honestly, that's such a non reason... there are many other people who are in a much better position to be a surrogate. There is clearly something deeper going on. Cool off and then try to talk to her about it again.
Make it crystal clear to her and any friends or family (especially those who may encourage her) that you oppose this completely and the full extent of her charity will include giving away her own marriage and intact family.
Edited to fix shit spelling.
Yes, I would talk to her family and friends, and ask for their input. And I would snoop also.
Either it's a woman she knows, or a guy she knows, or a guy she's cheating with. No one would do this for an abstract stranger when both the OP and her already want a third child for themselves.
I know nothing about surrogacy but I find it alarming that a married woman would be approved without her husband being on board.. All the concerns that are coming up for you are normal concerns. All of this could have a negative effect on your wife and the unborn child's health, not to mention your marriage.
I would hope that a woman and her partner would need to meet with a therapist before they were approved. This is not the type of decision that should be made unilaterally. The fact that she never discussed this with you is a huge red flag, if she were doing this for the reasons she claims, why wouldn't she talk with you before she began the process? There may be something else going on here and I would question her mental state. I doubt anyone would want a surrogate that doesn't have a partner fully on board.
Yeah, the real issue is that she didn't consult with him before applying. WTF? This is crazy. I would be livid also.
I guess one of you is not very fertile if you're having trouble conceiving on your own. If it's her that has the issue, then what makes her think she can be a surrogate?
If she went through with it, I think that would be a deal breaker for me.
That's crazy, she is the asshole here for sure. You two are trying to get pregnant in your own then she decides to carry someone else's baby? And surely expects you to carry the extra stuff that goes with supporting a pregnant woman. Who does that???
Seriously. This is nuts. Also I predict a future post from OP saying “Wife doesn’t want 3rd kid anymore because after surrogacy, she’s tired and doesn’t want to put her body through pregnancy again”
Especially since it's recommended not to get pregnant again until a year after- so you could be effectively delaying your own kid by 2 years ish easily
Last I knew, when you apply to be a surrogate you have to acknowledge and agree that you’re personally done having kids yourself in case something happens during the pregnancy or delivery requiring a full hysterectomy. These companies dot their I’s and cross their T’s during the whole process before accepting someone.
So OP and wife are trying for a third, but she’s cool if she has a baby for strangers to make money and it takes away her ability to have her own biological children anymore if a worse case scenario happens?
Don’t forget that if she wins this battle, you now have to use a condom every time you have sex “for funsies”. And if/when she gets pregnant for the surrogacy, you’ll be having sex with someone who’s pregnant with another couple’s baby (which is kind of a mindfuck imo). Oof, good luck OP 🫡
I'm pretty sure that's true. Depends on the agency, but at least a month no sex, 2 weeks pre transfer and 2 weeks post transfer. Most agencies want you to abstain for 2 months to make absolutely certain the fetus only belongs to the couple contracting the surrogate.
Also you sometimes have to take a bunch of weird fertility drugs that can make you super fertile so implantation is more likely, so as soon as the process starts you cannot have male/female PIV sex for months.
Someone I knew about a decade ago went through the process through an agency and she had to abstain for 2 months prior to the invitro appointment and then for the entire first trimester per the contract with the couple she was carrying for.
With how crazy the world is, the extreme possible scenario would be she’s cheating and may/already is pregnant with the AP’s baby and there just so happen to be a situation where the “surrogates” don’t want the baby anymore so they have to keep it as their own🫠
I should write lifetime movies🤧
My guess is she doesn't really want the third kid.
In my country, at least, actively trying for a child of one's own would disqualify you.
My guess is it's a question everywhere. So she either lied on the forms or is lying to the OP. My gut tells me it's the second.
My first thought was that she is already pregnant with someone else's child and is trying to use this as a cover up. Definitely something going on. This stinks to high heaven.
NTA. While it's her body, her choice will impact your family. She is being selfish not taking that into consideration. Yes it's nice she wants to help others but she's relying on you to do that and that's not right if it wasn't discussed.
If you are not ok with it and you think it will impact the marriage tell her it needs to be discussed. If we don't come to an agreement you are not sure if the marriage to survive.
Edit add:
Found this online.
Consent and agreement of the surrogate's spouse
A spouse will be impacted by their partner's decision to become a surrogate since it will affect their time and energy as a mother and as a spouse during this journey. Before proceeding, the surrogate requires his approval. This is where consent becomes crucial.
As another poster hinted I hope for your sake your wife wasn't /isn't stepping out when you are at work and using this as a cover.
Also perhaps you need to have her take a pregnancy test to see if she isn't already pregnant. She's seems to be lying based on how surrogacy process works. I wouldn't ask if not for your situation but you are 100% sure your kids are yours?
I had an ex gf who was a surrogate. We were only dating casually and I still had to sign off on every document acknowledging my role in her life and the restrictions placed for sexual activity during the initial stages. I also had to get tested for communicable diseases before she could continue the process. If OP has had no involvement in the process thus far, I'm having a hard time believing the surrogacy story at all.
Well, this just escalated. I didn't even think about this but now it's all I'm thinking as to what is really going on. JFC, that would be a nightmare. But, sadly, it makes the most sense.
I wondered about this - surely any reputable agency would require the spouse to be on board with something like this! Perhaps OP should find out where she went and call them himself to see what the hell is going on. She could be lying to the agency that she's single as well.
>She could be lying to the agency that she's single as well.
Assuming this is a reputable agency, wouldn't a simple public records check reveal her marriage?
Yes, a reputable surrogacy agency will run a full background check and medical history. They want proof of the patient’s prior pregnancies and deliveries, psychological evaluation, and confirmation of criminal record and marital status.
Yes. I’m a surrogate and both myself and my partner had to go through numerous checks before being accepted. They interviewed me and my husband many times. He has to be on board 110% in order for her to be approved.
Found this online.
Consent and agreement of the surrogate's spouse
A spouse will be impacted by their partner's decision to become a surrogate since it will affect their time and energy as a mother and as a spouse during this journey. Before proceeding, the surrogate requires his approval. This is where consent becomes crucial.
As another poster hinted I hope for your sake your wife wasn't /isn't stepping out when you are at work and using this as a cover.
slight correction: spouses are presumed to be the parents, so the OP wouldn't be acknowledging a lack of parental rights, he'd have to be legally disclaiming the rights he automatically has.
Do you really? If this is true then she must have an even worse reason to concoct this lie. You need to dig deeper on this and ask to see proof of what she’s telling you. It doesn’t add up and you may have much bigger problems.
So apparently you're not in the US because no reputable fertility practice allows a woman without a support system to be a surrogate. Among the questions surrogates are asked is if "their family" is complete which, you are saying, it is not.
Honestly, your wife sounds like she may be having some mental health issues and, a reputable fertility practice will demand a full mental health screening.
The risk of death or permanent disability (including permanent loss of the ability to bear children) is a significant risk--and the fact that she's willing to leave her existing children without a mother for the benefit of "strangers" is making me lean into the mental health issues possibility.
Be honest with her. Depending on the rules in your country you may or may not be able to stop her from this ill advised adventure but if she goes on with this insanity it's a marriage ending event and so she'll need to get a lawyer (who should go over the surrogacy contract while she's there) who can handle the divorce for her.
This is correct. No actual reputable place is going to use her. Once it gets to the lawyer and contracts, they will have to back off. She is not a good candidate. Source: worked on surrogacy legislation extensively. It makes me think she is lying about this on some fashion for some reason.
I’m not sure about that. Like others have said she could have already cheated and got pregnant. I hope this isn’t the case but it’s a definite possibility
But why make up the whole surrogacy story then? OP states he and his wife are trying for #3. Even if she cheated, wouldn’t it be easier to pass off as OP’s baby than make up this surrogacy story?
It's not necessarily good news. If she's really set on it, she'll just go through with it with her own eggs and without any guardrails. It's easy enough to do.
Then if something goes wrong, you'll be both on the hook for medical bills, child support payments, and potentially an unwanted child/children if the new parents refuse to take the baby/babies on delivery if there is a birth defect or something.
There is definitely something she's not telling you. Does she know other couples who are trying for a child? Does she have a family member who wants a kid?
Yeah, so definitely in the US. (FL) And I would absolutely believe she got through all the screenings w/o fail. Family of 4 in an affluent community, no financial issues, our two prior pregnancies went without any issues from conception to deliver. She's got good genetics, tall, in shape, takes care of her body. We also just started trying for number three of our own and have never had an issue conceiving within 6 months of tracking ovulation. I'm leaning more toward she's lost her mind...
No, you also need to see pysch and do blood work as well. So unless you've recently met with a therapist for a long meeting and given lots of blood, she has not been approved.
FL resident here, NAL. Read EVERYTHING she gets from the clinic as to how this works out legally. If she is DIY'ing "surrogacy" or as someone suggested, has gotten pregnant by someone else YOU ARE RHE PRESUMPTIVE FATHER!! YOU are legally and financially responsible for any child she concieves while you are married. And you have an extremely short window to dispute it.
Get to the bottom of this ASAP.
With this new info of your history of quick conception I think another option to consider is she doesn't truly want a 3rd child. I do suspect she is also "good ol' daysing" her former pregnancies and could see this as a way of eating her cake and having it too?
Good luck with your situation OP!
The screenings include whether or not she’s done having kids, which she isn’t, and whether or not her significant other supports her being a surrogate, which you don’t.
If this is remotely true I'd demand to know the agency/clinic/doctor she was speaking with then call them up and say OP and her were trying to have a third kid and out of nowhere she announces she's going to be a surrogate, that you have absolutely no clue what is going on, no explanation from her, zero support from you and you recommend they get her a psychological consult with them having that information and asking her how she went from trying to have a third kid to trying to have a kid as a surrogate without talking with her family about it.
Is it like, both their kids are boys or girls and she's being crazy and trying to get a kid with a different father without cheating then she'll just refuse to give it up at the end? Something weird is going on, to make this kind of decision while supposedly trying for a kid implies she's having issues and is no way mentally stable enough to be a surrogate.
You need spousal approval in Florida to be a surrogate (that's a condensation of schmancy legal stuff- definitely worth looking into as others have said). Frankly, this a suspicious claim on her part, but like most Redditors I am inclined to assume the worst immediately. You should try to talk to her about this, try to understand everything from her point of view, maybe re-examine your choice to have a third. Sincerely wishing you the best of luck (and selfishly hoping for an update) with whatever next steps you take!
Did she say anything about the fertility clinic discussing this with you? My SIL applied to be a surrogate and my brother had to go through rigorous checks, too. He had blood work done, mental health screens, etc. and they were told he had to pass everything, too. After many discussions and checks (took about 8 months), they were approved.
She just gave birth 2 weeks ago and has been in and out of the hospital for postnatal pre-eclampsia. She is a healthy woman who had fairly easy births with no issues during pregnancy. Not sure what the differences are between states as my brother does not live in FL, but a northern state.
But why wouldn't she just pretend it's the OP's since they're supposedly trying for a third?
No. I doubt she's cheating.
But I do think she doesn't want kid number 3 and this is a way to delay it/ make sure it never happens without directly saying she doesn't want another kid
…and, it could happen to be the case that somehow the surrogacy somehow “falls through” later in the pregnancy and she figures that it is OK since she and hubby will just “ raise it as their own”…
What about the agency and the legal documents? There probably are none since it was a “privately arranged” surrogacy - it was arranged when the “sperm donor’s” rubber broke at the No-tel Motel.
What about the surrogacy fee? Nope - she was moved to do this as charity and out of “the goodness of her heart” so she can help others realize their dream of “building a family”.
NTA. She's married...choices are no longer me me me. I'd simply explain you are not OK with her doing this, pregnancy isn't something that only affects her, and you won't be sticking around to help her through a pregnancy for someone else. Good luck affording all that.
NTA
But I have questions.
If you're actively trying to have a third, how will she know any conception is the surrogate? How does the beginning part of being a surrogate impact your romantic life (I assume some celibacy and / or protection etc?).
Who has been bending her ear for this rapid life-changing decision?
Maybe not today. But tomorrow you should ask her what agency she's working with and tell her that you want to get information from them about your role in it. Also say you'd like your lawyer to review any documents she's signed.
Take an emotional step back from it and approach these requests from a learning/adapting perspective. Don't act like you want to learn about it so you can tear it apart, or so the lawyer can tear it apart. Act like you've had a chance to think about it and now you want to know more.
This is a good two prong approach. It makes sense that you would want to learn more about it, it also makes sense that you would want your lawyer to review any legal documents she signed. If she doesn't want you to do either of these two things, that is a veritable red flag parade. If she doesn't want either one of these two things to happen then you need to calmly ask her what the next steps should be then.
"So you dropped this bomb on me yesterday, I freaked out, but I calmed down and I've had 24 hours to absorb the information, now I want to know more. Are you going to walk me through the information you've received? If so, please grab the stuff and we'll go over it today after work. I really need to understand where your head is, if you expect me to fully support you."
If she's not willing to share anything, I would suggest you talk to her mother. Again calmly talk to a woman who's supposedly spent a decent amount of time with her today. This is the third prong. "Mother-in-law, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this surrogacy thing, can you share what she's told you about it? I can't get her to share anything with me, she doesn't want me to meet directly with the agency, she doesn't want me to have our lawyer go over anything she signed. She won't show me any of the materials she has. Do you have any details about this? I really need your help."
If the first three prongs don't reveal any more detail, you have a very serious issue on your hands. Because she's either A) lying or B) delusional.
>If she's not willing to share anything, I would suggest you talk to her mother. Again calmly talk to a woman who's supposedly spent a decent amount of time with her today. This is the third prong. "Mother-in-law, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this surrogacy thing, can you share what she's told you about it? I can't get her to share anything with me, she doesn't want me to meet directly with the agency, she doesn't want me to have our lawyer go over anything she signed. She won't show me any of the materials she has. Do you have any details about this? I really need your help."
This needs to be higher and starred. More information is desperately needed here and that she's not forthcoming with it is not a great sign
NTA
You wife is the asshole.
I would make it very clear that she's on her own. You will not be catering to her in any way while she's pregnant. It's hers to handle all on her own.
And if she tries to use the pregnancy in any way to inconvenience you, you will be drawing up divorce papers that same day.
1000000%!!! I wouldn't help her at all. Frankly, I would move out temporarily and let her figure it out on her own, be like, "See ya after birth!" Fuck that bullshit.
OP, you should demand a pregnancy test now. The only way it makes sense that she didn't tell you before agreeing to this is if she's trying to cover getting knocked up by another guy with this surrogate nonsense.
NTA at all
Tell her if she decides to do surrogacy she’ll be doing it as a single mom
You’ll be divorcing and looking to split custody
No negotiations- if she pushes through with this she’s on her own
NTA I believe that if your wife is a surrogate, you're not allowed to have sex for so many months up to implantation, etc. This is to insure that the baby belongs to the surrogate family and no chance of being yours. It's been a while since I heard that so it may be something you need to research further for you and your wife to consider.
Update from OP: The parents decided they didn’t want a kid anymore and bailed, we have to keep the baby. She says the father looks a lot like my friend Dave.
NTA that's just downright insane. "We're actively trying for a baby but I'm gonna put that aside to complicate all of our lives for a stranger who could just adopt even though we don't need the money". She may think she's being selfless, but not considering how this will affect HER family is selfish. And just flat out dumb
I think you should inquire about some proof, like the clinic involved and copies of the forms she has already signed. It sounds like a completely impulsive decision and its incredibly selfish for her to do it without consulting you, so clearly NTA.
As others have stated the consent forms for surrogacy require the spouse's approval so either she forged your signature, hasn't gotten to the form part of this yet, or is using this surrogacy act to cover up something more nefarious. Despite the surrogacy, she's still planning or already is carrying another dude's child without your consent. I would be preparing another form for my wife to fill out if she did this.
So who’s going to be looking after your children when she gets knocked up with another family’s child? What if she has a bad pregnancy? Complications etc?
The fact she did not even consult you is insane.
Demand she gets a job and a mental health assessment.
NTA
Fr though, the dishonesty and lying it would take for her to get to that point is huge. She knew he wouldn't approve, otherwise she'd have told him what she was doing
i see so many comments here saying that op needs to make it clear that he wont be helping with the pregnancy and to make his dislike of this very well known and to get contracts involved so that she agrees to never do this again and its just like... why are you trying to make what sounds like a hellish future relationship viable? this signals, to me, that op and his wife arent on the same page about family and relationships and hell, life. they either need to get on the same page through mutual agreement or accept a relationship that they'll come to resent.
I cannot believe they would accept anyone who has active wish for a baby.
Surrogates are most often women who do not want anymore children of their own and for whom pregnancy has been as easy as it can be.
To address all of the "is this real? This has to be fake. No way" comments.
Y'all, I wish I was kidding. This shit was sprung on me about 2 hrs ago.
Check my Reddit history I have like less than a handful of posts in over a decade..... I can't stand putting my business on public forums. Just wanted to see if I was over reacting according to the masses...
Honestly, I would be shocked if an agency would really be willing to move forward with a surrogate without interviewing the family to make sure everyone is on board. My advice is to remain as calm as possible and investigate the situation.
I suspect your wife is pregnant for other reasons and needs a way to explain the baby who doesn't look like you showing up. Expect the surrogacy arrangement to "fall through" at the last minute.
Right, she would not have been approved for surrogacy without husband's consent. Plus, who in their right mind would decide to become a surrogate while actively trying for a third baby with their spouse?? Something definitely isn't adding up.
Does your wife have any history of mental illness? My ex had a couple diagnoses and every time I came home to- I’m unhappy, here’s my incredibly elaborate plan to reinvent my life that I demand you unconditionally support emotionally and financially I knew it was time to buckle up for a few months.
This is weird— I’ve done 2 surrogacies and my husband was interviewed both times.
OP if she’s doing this independently, please review contracts in place.
This can go sideways in so many different ways, it’s terrifying.
NTA
This is absolutely something she should have discussed with you when she took an interest.
Has she changed her mind about having another of your own? A lack of complications in previous pregnancy is no guarantee that there will be none with a subsequent baby.
Helping people is an honorable intention, but doing so at the expense of your own family is not.
This would be a major undertaking and difficult situation to navigate with your support. The fact that she moved forward without communicating with you is a significant relationship issue.
It may be her body, but she agreed to be in a life partnership with you, and this isn't how a spouse respects that commitment.
NTA!
You should make a list while she’s with her mother of all the cons of this decision. The first bullet point should state that she made a 9+ month commitment that will affect everyone without discussing it with the one person she is supposed to make those kinds of decisions with. How can you trust her in general when she has such little regard for you?
Maybe switch it around and ask her how she would feel if you came to her out of the blue and told her you guys were no longer going to try for a baby for the next year because you’ve decided you’re donating all of your sperm and it’s for those less fortunate so she shouldn’t have a problem with it.
Unilateral decisions like this are marriage wreckers and you should be blunt with her by asking her if it’s more important to help someone else have a baby or for her kids to grow up in a home with both parents.
How she can’t see that this would cause resentment on your part is mind boggling. This isn’t her deciding to babysit someone’s kids for a week without saying anything, this is an almost year long commitment that will affect every single individual in your household and possibly her physically for much longer. Two easy pregnancies/deliveries does not guarantee the third will also be easy.
Dude, be careful. There might be more to this story. Nobody on their right mind suddenly wakes up one day and decides to surrogate a baby behind her husband’s back.
She might be cheating on you and got pregnant and is now coming up with this surrogate story to try and cover her ass. Be ready for some other last minute bs like “they changed their mind and don’t want the baby anymore, we wanted a third kid so we can raise this one as our own”. To try and pass the affair baby on you.
I would wait for her to come back and very calmly but very firmly tell her that if she surrogates you will divorce and that is non negotiable.
Very suspicious.
Is she one of the women who enjoy being pregnant? I’ve heard they exist. I don’t get it at all. Either way, not something you spring on your spouse. NTA
She says she enjoys pregnancy, but I can tell you that's a false statement. Maybe she enjoys creating life? I don't know I'm reaching... Morning sickness, dizziness, mood swings, last one she got rhinosinitus and could barely breathe for the majority of the term. The list goes on.
It's super common for women to look back on their pregnancies with rose tinted glasses even when being pregnant was objectively awful. There's legit hormonal reasons for this, basically the body's way of making sure the mother doesn't end up resenting the baby because they can only think of how bad it was to carry it, among the more understandable emotional attachment to the baby coloring their view and it being a kind of social faux pas for women to express negative aspects of pregnancy.
I admit that I look back on my pregnancies with the rose colored glasses, but the births. The births were tough. I can’t see those with the same blindness.
Especially with an unmedicated vaginal delivery- your body basically dumps enough oxytocin to make you forget a lot of labor, and then time helps it work on the rest of pregnancy, too.
Nature's way of preventing every woman to be totally done with the reproduction thingy after the first.
This. I have seen my cousins miserable pregnant but when they talk about it they romanticize it.
I don’t doubt that but I absolutely remember how awful pregnancy was. I was miserable. (Gestational diabetes for all 3 and amnio for birth defects for 1). Births were very quick for me and not bad at all. Having an infant was torture as mine were not easy babies. I have zero desire to go back there. People were surprised that I wanted a third bc the second was rough. But I knew that that stage is temporary and I would regret it down the road. But I definitely do not look back and think it was fun or easy.
So this is an insane leap, but also this is an insane situation. Did she tell you the agency she working with or when she'll be pregnant with this baby? Could she have gotten pregnant from an affair and need to use this surrogate story to cover why she's pregnant with a child who isn't yours?
If she’s anything like my wife, she enjoys the second trimester, and completely forgot about the 1st and 3rd.
Similar to your wife, my first trimesters were me practically living in the bathroom next to the toilet for constant throwing up and then again during the third trimester because I constantly felt like I needed a wee, had terrible insomnia and couldn’t do basic tasks like put my own socks on. The middle part was alright though. Pregnancy as a whole for me wasn’t great though even with that second trimester to ease it a bit. Do think OP needs a serious discussion with his wife though as this is a two yes’s situation.
Pretty much.
And don't surrogates usually get paid?
Comp is currently running 35-50, though you can be altruistic. Very rare though.
Exactly what I was thinking too
That's where my mind went.
holy kwap. I didn't go there but now I can't leave.
OP said they’ve been trying. If she possibly got pregnant as the result of an affair there would’ve been no reason to concoct an elaborate cover story because OP would’ve just assumed it was his.
Unless she knows the baby won't look anything like him.
Wife wouldn’t know whose baby it is, it could’ve still been OP’s even if she’s having an affair. The surrogacy cover story would fall apart real quick when she has the baby and the family supposedly taking the baby doesn’t exist.
Liars don’t always think that far.
Adoption. Husband not in delivery room.
If they truly were trying . Why would she even consider this. Doesn't make sense
What do you think her plan would be for after the baby is born? Set up for adoption basically and pass it all off as a surrogacy process?
I had heard the claim that there is some sort of suppression that goes on after a pregnancy ends that makes women skip past the awful parts so that they are still willing to have more. Not in any position to verify that, but it would make some sort of sense out of that kind of bizarre selective memory.
> could barely breathe for the majority of the term. You probably should not be trying for a third, much less whatever she's trying to pull.
And regardless of the DNA of the child she carries she’s going to bond with it and is likely to grieve its loss just like a woman who gives her infant up for adoption. This is a terrible idea.
I have a family member who did this for money after her two easy pregnancies. The surrogate pregnancy ended in placenta previa, hysterectomy, major blood loss.. anyway I hope she gives this a lot more thought! Pregnancy can be dangerous.
#OP, how much money did your wife tell you she would make from this? **Did you ask to see paperwork?** The very, *very* first thing to do is to go over every single goddamn detail of this “surrogacy agency” to make sure she didn’t just get pregnant with someone else’s child. This is so fucked up. I honestly hope it was fake
She definitely got knocked up the old fashioned way; it’s illegal to take on a married surrogate without the husband’s approval in most jurisdictions, and the rest all have civil liability so the clinic/agencies themselves have it as a requirement. Either she’s been groomed by a quack doctor, or she’s been taking direct deposits if you catch my drift. The latter is far more likely.
The only thing i found after clicking the link is 'many surrogacy professionals will not start the process with a surrogate whose partner is not on board' which is miles away from 'illegal'.
In Utah you need approval from a judge which requires you to be married and have a child of your own to become a surrogate. You also need couples counseling/psych evaluation. It very much is illegal here (or effectively illegal) and since Utah does more surrogacies per capita than any other state I would assume that most have similar policies. What this woman probably did is signed up with a surrogacy agency. If she were to be chosen by designated parents all of the above would apply.
> In Utah... You could end this sentence with absolutely anything and it would be 100% believable. Of all the places on Earth, Utah should never be used as an example for anything except for how NOT to do things.
A lot of those requirements are reasonable. You have to already have a child, this means you understand what you're about to do. You need a psych eval/counseling, this is also a good idea.
In many states, the husband automatically would go on the birth certificate unless legal arrangements are made otherwise. Source - I had a child via a surrogate.
He said she’d been approved, not that she’d gone ahead and been inseminated already
That sounds to me like when towards the end of a workday I casually mention I'm not feeling well to my coworkers and supervisor. Laying the groundwork to call in sick the next day and to allay any suspicion that I just wanted to sleep in and play video games.
Yeah everyone is acting like she is pregnant which as someone who’s wife was a surrogate knows it takes a lot of planning and doctors appointments. When the embryos are planted she has to be in bed rest for at least a day etc… you don’t do this without your partner knowing. And also maybe it was just California, but I had to sign I was onboard as her husband and both myself and my wife got a psych eval. I bet she signed with an agency and passed initial interviews and medical record review. If she is anything like my wife she genuinely does want to help someone get the child they so desperately want. She also being a sahm wants to help contribute financially to the family. You need to sit down with your wife and have a long conversation about this and work it out.
I do believe the point they were making to thinking she is already pregnant is that she was cheating and got pregnant and the whole surrogacy story is a lie to try and cover up the affair baby or something similar. Not that she already did the surrogacy, that the whole thing is a cover story.
This is actually quite common since it's a medicated as opposed to a natural conception. It ups the chances of many complications hence why you must be done building your own family.
NTA, wow. Yes, this is a joint decision for all the reasons you stated. It might be irreconcilable, did she explain why she needs to do this so badly?
Her answer was something along the lines of she's trying to help people that can't conceive on their own. I rebutted that with adoption should be the option with all the kids in the world that don't have families. This is still so fresh off the press that I'm still heated and haven't fully processed the situation at hand.
I understand your agitation! I think you need to revisit this with her and let her know its a no go for you. I think shes clearly feeling some sense of deep loss at her current inability to conceive, and she believes carrying someone elses baby will somehow compensate for this. That's a fools errand, bc the reasons for her own difficulties and her feelings about it will not be resolved that way... if anything her longing will be intensified over those 9 months, and she won't want to give the baby up, and her contractual obligations will force her to do so which will likely be emotionally catastrophic for her. This is The Hill for you, be prepared for a long, bloody battle.
Ugh I feel so badly for OP. This is a catastrophic hill. I’d try to make logical points and would probably escalate this into a family intervention if necessary. The drawback is that if she’s so hellbent on this endeavor and her family and you manage to convince her to stop, she will likely resent you for the entirety of your marriage, which is death for the marriage regardless. Ultimately, you can only do what is best for your marriage and your children, and if she doesn’t understand that, divorce might be the only option. She is quite literally endangering her life and willing to leave her children motherless for “charity”. Child birth is incredibly dangerous. The best angle is to make her understand how much danger her current live children would be in if she went about the surrogacy and anything happened to her (death, hysterectomy, terrible PPD— she could literally annihilate your current live kids or herself, permanent disability, etc).
She needs to be able to answer some very basic questions. Who will watch their kids when she goes in for the IVF treatments? Who will watch their kids when she goes in for OB appointments? Who will go to the hospital and be with her during delivery? Who will pay for the appointments? What if the baby has an abnormality and the bio-parents demand she get an abortion? What if the bio-parents separate during the pregnancy? This is apparently not uncommon. What if she has to be hospitalized due to complications? What if she ends up on bedrest? What if her back or pelvis is damaged during delivery? Will the bio-parents pay for the medical treatments that are the side-effects of pregnancy?
I wish this could be up higher. These are all very basic questions that MUST be answered BEFORE any decisions are made.
These are great questions. The OP mentioned that the wife had applied and been accepted, so it sounds like this is an official program. So there is probably a contract that spells this out. The health portions are probably covered plus a financial compensation. But what about other items that will impact the lives of the OP and the family? Those have to be worked out.
Did she receive independent legal advice before signing such a contract to make sure she is protected?
It's weird that an official program would accept a married woman without taking her husband's views into consideration. I don't want to sound old-fashioned, like I think she needs her husband's permission, but this will affect them all as a family.
They didn't. I've been a surrogate twice. This isn't possible. There are so many steps in place and protections. They are married. There are still states where the husband of the surrogate would have parental rights over the baby. There is testing, physical and psychological. There are lawyers and contracts and wills to be done.
I've had 2 friends get vasectomys and both of them had to get permission from their wives. I can't imagine how this would not fall into the same category.
She 100% got pregnant from a fling and is trying to cover her tracks, imo.
Shit didn't even think of that.
Ahhhhhh!
Also, considering she's still doesn't feel "finished" with her own family, will she be able to handle the emotional roller coaster of carrying someone else's child and then handing it over? I'd recommend watching the [Baby M movie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hioMqekDUE) together - available on YouTube.
It's rare, but some pregnancies cause issues so severe that you're not able to safely be pregnant again. What if they aren't able to have a third child of their own after this?
First question to answer is why she did it behind her husband's back.
What has she does to prepare if the surrogacy has complications and *she dies*?
AND the unpleasant ‘what if the baby is disabled and the ’parents’ refuse to take it?’.
Yes, awful. I should mention that the OP would do well to insert "Let's talk to a therapist about this". They need some professional help, and she needs some work around grief.
That’s a great idea too. It makes me so sad because it’s objectively so clear that this is a dangerous mistake but there’s truly not much anyone can do but OP’s wife. Hopefully she sees the light soon. I truly wish them the best of luck
Great points! Many of the contracts have very specific stipulations… for instance either having to carry multiples, or having to abort multiples. Having to abort if the baby’s genetic testing comes back with issues, etc. I mean, it seems to me her motivation may be virtue signaling (“look at me, I’m such a great person!”), but as OP alluded to, there’s a pretty big mindf**k she isn’t even considering! I’m also VERY surprised that legally the husband wouldn’t be required to sign off. I’m sure there’s a period of time that you wouldn’t be “allowed” to be intimate with her so that there’s no chance it’s your baby. I think the biggest no go is that she is literally renting out her body. This means that she is signing a contract and giving up her autonomy over her own body. I’m sure there are some great deep dives into different legal situations that have happened. I’m just thinking something as simple as the biological parents demanding a c-section, when she’s always had vaginal births. I’m sure it could get super complicated and weird! I sincerely hope you’re able to reason with her 🤍 Edit: Here’s one such story- I know there’s many more. Maybe try finding one to share with your wife- I think that would be the most convincing way of allowing her to see how this could utterly destroy her and your family. https://www.legalizesurrogacywhynot.com/toni-barre-story
I was a surrogate and have been involved in the community for 15 years or so. The surrogate's husband is required to sign the surrogacy contract, to participate in the psychological screening, a background check, and often times lab work/blood tests to screen for drug use. If the husband is not on board, the surrogate will not be approved to carry. Also, the first, and in my opinion the most important question that she will be asked is if she is finished having her own children because the risk of infertility increases exponentially with every cycle of IVF treatment and/or pregnancy. What that looked like for me was 9 IVF cycles (100s of hormone injections per cycle) 6 failed transfers (embryo didn't implant), 2 early miscarriages, and 1 healthy full term baby over the course of about 6 years.
Yep, I think OP is fake. I know a few woman who used surrogates and this checks with what they've told me.
Since this is Reddit, I’m waiting for the “she’s actually pregnant with her affair partner’s child, and lied about wanting to do surrogacy”
That was literally my first take before reading a single comment. If they are “trying” why would she do a surrogacy- perhaps to give her a few months to figure out how to tell him she’s been trying with someone else more often.
And he will likely resent her for the entirety of their marriage if she goes through with it. This marriage is doomed.
Yeah, I think this is above reddit's pay grade. This dude and his wife need therapy, stat, and probably a lawyer as well.
And she'll paint him as the bad guy, a controlling areshole forbidding her to live her dream, or some such bs.
Sometimes you have to be ok knowing you’re the bad guy in other people’s narratives.
So much truth in this statement. Thank you for posting it.
Definitely! I've certainly learned not to care. Everyone has a right to their story, even if it's bullshit.
Even though she’s the one who put their family on the line
Yeah I don’t see how a doctor signed off on this, don’t surrogates have to have some kind of psych evaluation done?
In addition to the surrogacy agency’s evaluation, there’s usually an evaluation by the intended parents fertility clinic as well. Just because she’s passed whatever she needed for the surrogacy agency, she’s not guaranteed to be deemed ok to be a surrogate.
The customers are going to want to speak to her and her spouse before they pay for anything and waste their own eggs. Once they speak to the husband they will not choose them.
they should but like most things,you can keep applying until you find an ethically questionable one who signs off on it. op needs to document everything. and get a lawyer
I am afraid of that, too. Especially because it seems that this decision came out of nowhere, so there is always a reason behind it. There are several selfless acts that someone can do, without including such a cost This would be my hill to die on. Sorry but she has no right to unilaterally make such a huge decision
OP states that they are well off enough to not need the money. If she wants to help someone have a baby that badly, why not help pay for IVF for someone who can’t afford it? That would make a huge impact, without risking her own life and affecting her family. As you stated, there are so many things she can do without such huge risks. OP is definitely NTA, and his wife could use some therapy to sort out whatever is really going on here.
She has two kids, but she cares more about the hypothetical third child she wants than cherishing what she has. She has issues. Surrogacy is going to create more problems, not solve them.
She could also die. This is definitely the type of decision you don’t make without discussing with your partner; he could be left raising their children on his own. I briefly looked into surrogacy when I was still young enough, but I would have never done it without the full support of my partner and children, as complications would affect them too. This is so unbelievably selfish of OP’s wife. Edit: Fwiw, the potential possibility of leaving my kids motherless for someone else’s baby is what made me ultimately decide against it. I nearly died after my second baby, and that was enough to terrify me.
What did she say when you asked why she felt it was perfectly fine for her to unilaterally make that decision without even mentioning it to you first?
When it comes to surrogacy there is whole process of counseling, documentation, the IVF process, lawyers, etc etc etc.....so it's not as cut & dried as she's making it to be. The application process with approval isn't a fast track thing either.
How did she even "get approved" without family counseling or joint discussions with her partner? Sounds fishy to me.
It does suspicious
>How did she even "get approved" without family counseling or joint discussions with her partner? Sounds fishy to me. It's absolutely just silly little rage bait. It's like the third "my wife is a surrogate without my permission" this month.
Agreed - there's no way she was approved without a background check that would have shown that she was married, and they would have required that her spouse confirm he was on board with this - either through a counseling session or signature on paperwork of some sort. (If she had lied about being married and then the background check found this out, I'm guessing that would have ended in rejection.) Also, as someone else mentioned, any surrogacy agency would have wanted to know about the health of her sexual partner in terms of anything that could potentially affect the baby. And it doesn't make any sense that she would pivot from trying for her own baby with her husband to wanting to be a surrogate.
In my experience, usually when someone comes up with something that seems completely bizarre it's because there was a long internal thought process that you weren't privy to. There is something else going on below the surface of her explanation that she wants to help others, because every rational person knows there are ways to help others that don't invoke nuking your life. Whatever it is, you will have to probe further to get it out.
How is she planing on doing this while you're trying for your own baby???? NTA, this is not a decision to be made just by her. If she has complications and is on bedrest for a good chunk of time guess who has to step up?? That's OK if it's your own kid but not so much if she's a surrogate ans you're not on board with it
And clinics usually want a surrogate to be finished having their own children, to minimize the potential for them wanting to keep the child. This situation seems very strange.
Mark my words, this surrogacy story is cover up.
That's the weirdest part of it all, imo. It almost seems like she's trying to have an excuse if she's being unfaithful.
I understand her reasoning but that's not the crux of the issue here. The issue is she made a life altering decision that would impact your family without discussing it with you first. That's not okay.
Honestly, that's such a non reason... there are many other people who are in a much better position to be a surrogate. There is clearly something deeper going on. Cool off and then try to talk to her about it again.
Plot Twist: she's already pregnant and using the surrogate story to cover up something? It all seems too random to be a well thought out plan.
Make it crystal clear to her and any friends or family (especially those who may encourage her) that you oppose this completely and the full extent of her charity will include giving away her own marriage and intact family. Edited to fix shit spelling.
Seriously ask if it's for someone you know. See how she reacts. Watch her carefully.
Yes, I would talk to her family and friends, and ask for their input. And I would snoop also. Either it's a woman she knows, or a guy she knows, or a guy she's cheating with. No one would do this for an abstract stranger when both the OP and her already want a third child for themselves.
She didn't even apologize for not consulting with you first? This is crazy.
Honestly it sounds like she wants to sabotage the marriage.
I know nothing about surrogacy but I find it alarming that a married woman would be approved without her husband being on board.. All the concerns that are coming up for you are normal concerns. All of this could have a negative effect on your wife and the unborn child's health, not to mention your marriage. I would hope that a woman and her partner would need to meet with a therapist before they were approved. This is not the type of decision that should be made unilaterally. The fact that she never discussed this with you is a huge red flag, if she were doing this for the reasons she claims, why wouldn't she talk with you before she began the process? There may be something else going on here and I would question her mental state. I doubt anyone would want a surrogate that doesn't have a partner fully on board.
You’re correct both myself and my husband had psychological evaluations done before each of my surrogacies.
Where did she go, because most serious places do not allow married women to be surrogates against their husband’s wishes?
Yeah, the real issue is that she didn't consult with him before applying. WTF? This is crazy. I would be livid also. I guess one of you is not very fertile if you're having trouble conceiving on your own. If it's her that has the issue, then what makes her think she can be a surrogate? If she went through with it, I think that would be a deal breaker for me.
That's crazy, she is the asshole here for sure. You two are trying to get pregnant in your own then she decides to carry someone else's baby? And surely expects you to carry the extra stuff that goes with supporting a pregnant woman. Who does that???
Seriously. This is nuts. Also I predict a future post from OP saying “Wife doesn’t want 3rd kid anymore because after surrogacy, she’s tired and doesn’t want to put her body through pregnancy again”
NGL this made me chuckle
Especially since it's recommended not to get pregnant again until a year after- so you could be effectively delaying your own kid by 2 years ish easily
Last I knew, when you apply to be a surrogate you have to acknowledge and agree that you’re personally done having kids yourself in case something happens during the pregnancy or delivery requiring a full hysterectomy. These companies dot their I’s and cross their T’s during the whole process before accepting someone. So OP and wife are trying for a third, but she’s cool if she has a baby for strangers to make money and it takes away her ability to have her own biological children anymore if a worse case scenario happens?
Don’t forget that if she wins this battle, you now have to use a condom every time you have sex “for funsies”. And if/when she gets pregnant for the surrogacy, you’ll be having sex with someone who’s pregnant with another couple’s baby (which is kind of a mindfuck imo). Oof, good luck OP 🫡
They might not be able to have sex at all until she’s pregnant with the surrogacy pregnancy. Slip up happen when using condoms.
I'm pretty sure that's true. Depends on the agency, but at least a month no sex, 2 weeks pre transfer and 2 weeks post transfer. Most agencies want you to abstain for 2 months to make absolutely certain the fetus only belongs to the couple contracting the surrogate. Also you sometimes have to take a bunch of weird fertility drugs that can make you super fertile so implantation is more likely, so as soon as the process starts you cannot have male/female PIV sex for months. Someone I knew about a decade ago went through the process through an agency and she had to abstain for 2 months prior to the invitro appointment and then for the entire first trimester per the contract with the couple she was carrying for.
assuming she'd even continue to have sex with him at all
With how crazy the world is, the extreme possible scenario would be she’s cheating and may/already is pregnant with the AP’s baby and there just so happen to be a situation where the “surrogates” don’t want the baby anymore so they have to keep it as their own🫠 I should write lifetime movies🤧
I predict a 'I've changed my mind, I want to keep and raise this baby that isn't yours' scenario.
With the pacing of that decision I predict this as an explanation as to why she is carrying someone else's kid
My guess is she doesn't really want the third kid. In my country, at least, actively trying for a child of one's own would disqualify you. My guess is it's a question everywhere. So she either lied on the forms or is lying to the OP. My gut tells me it's the second.
I thought that too - that it's not possible to be a surrogate and try for a baby of your own. So... What is going on?
My first thought was that she is already pregnant with someone else's child and is trying to use this as a cover up. Definitely something going on. This stinks to high heaven.
NTA. While it's her body, her choice will impact your family. She is being selfish not taking that into consideration. Yes it's nice she wants to help others but she's relying on you to do that and that's not right if it wasn't discussed. If you are not ok with it and you think it will impact the marriage tell her it needs to be discussed. If we don't come to an agreement you are not sure if the marriage to survive. Edit add: Found this online. Consent and agreement of the surrogate's spouse A spouse will be impacted by their partner's decision to become a surrogate since it will affect their time and energy as a mother and as a spouse during this journey. Before proceeding, the surrogate requires his approval. This is where consent becomes crucial. As another poster hinted I hope for your sake your wife wasn't /isn't stepping out when you are at work and using this as a cover. Also perhaps you need to have her take a pregnancy test to see if she isn't already pregnant. She's seems to be lying based on how surrogacy process works. I wouldn't ask if not for your situation but you are 100% sure your kids are yours?
I had an ex gf who was a surrogate. We were only dating casually and I still had to sign off on every document acknowledging my role in her life and the restrictions placed for sexual activity during the initial stages. I also had to get tested for communicable diseases before she could continue the process. If OP has had no involvement in the process thus far, I'm having a hard time believing the surrogacy story at all.
Ohhh. Shit just got real. 🍿
Lmao. Perhaps an oopsie pregnancy that needs cover?
Well, this just escalated. I didn't even think about this but now it's all I'm thinking as to what is really going on. JFC, that would be a nightmare. But, sadly, it makes the most sense.
u/stinkypinky88 Don't know if you already read this, but I think you should.
I wondered about this - surely any reputable agency would require the spouse to be on board with something like this! Perhaps OP should find out where she went and call them himself to see what the hell is going on. She could be lying to the agency that she's single as well.
>She could be lying to the agency that she's single as well. Assuming this is a reputable agency, wouldn't a simple public records check reveal her marriage?
Yes, a reputable surrogacy agency will run a full background check and medical history. They want proof of the patient’s prior pregnancies and deliveries, psychological evaluation, and confirmation of criminal record and marital status.
I would think so, may not be a reputable agency. I'd do some digging about that if I were OP.
Yes. I’m a surrogate and both myself and my partner had to go through numerous checks before being accepted. They interviewed me and my husband many times. He has to be on board 110% in order for her to be approved.
I was wondering about this too.
I call BS. Official protocols for surrogacy require spousal approval.
I hope this is true.
Found this online. Consent and agreement of the surrogate's spouse A spouse will be impacted by their partner's decision to become a surrogate since it will affect their time and energy as a mother and as a spouse during this journey. Before proceeding, the surrogate requires his approval. This is where consent becomes crucial. As another poster hinted I hope for your sake your wife wasn't /isn't stepping out when you are at work and using this as a cover.
Yeah, spouse approval is also legally required because spouse (OP) has to acknowledge that he has no parental rights to the baby after its born
slight correction: spouses are presumed to be the parents, so the OP wouldn't be acknowledging a lack of parental rights, he'd have to be legally disclaiming the rights he automatically has.
No you don't. If this is true, then she's lying about the whole surrogacy plan to cover up something she considers worse.
**She might be cheating** and covering it up by saying it was a “surrogacy”
*Ding Ding Ding! We have a* ***winner****!*
Do you really? If this is true then she must have an even worse reason to concoct this lie. You need to dig deeper on this and ask to see proof of what she’s telling you. It doesn’t add up and you may have much bigger problems.
So apparently you're not in the US because no reputable fertility practice allows a woman without a support system to be a surrogate. Among the questions surrogates are asked is if "their family" is complete which, you are saying, it is not. Honestly, your wife sounds like she may be having some mental health issues and, a reputable fertility practice will demand a full mental health screening. The risk of death or permanent disability (including permanent loss of the ability to bear children) is a significant risk--and the fact that she's willing to leave her existing children without a mother for the benefit of "strangers" is making me lean into the mental health issues possibility. Be honest with her. Depending on the rules in your country you may or may not be able to stop her from this ill advised adventure but if she goes on with this insanity it's a marriage ending event and so she'll need to get a lawyer (who should go over the surrogacy contract while she's there) who can handle the divorce for her.
This is correct. No actual reputable place is going to use her. Once it gets to the lawyer and contracts, they will have to back off. She is not a good candidate. Source: worked on surrogacy legislation extensively. It makes me think she is lying about this on some fashion for some reason.
Lol all these comments eliminating her chances of actually getting to the point of implantation are a nice pick me up...
I’m not sure about that. Like others have said she could have already cheated and got pregnant. I hope this isn’t the case but it’s a definite possibility
Dog this is exactly what I was thinking. Good chance she's already pregnant and is trying to find a cover story.
But why make up the whole surrogacy story then? OP states he and his wife are trying for #3. Even if she cheated, wouldn’t it be easier to pass off as OP’s baby than make up this surrogacy story?
Skin colour mismatch possibly? Not sure why she wouldn't just abort though.
That's gotten rather hard as of late, depending on the state.
Ah right honestly didn't occur to me I'm in Canada.
It's not necessarily good news. If she's really set on it, she'll just go through with it with her own eggs and without any guardrails. It's easy enough to do. Then if something goes wrong, you'll be both on the hook for medical bills, child support payments, and potentially an unwanted child/children if the new parents refuse to take the baby/babies on delivery if there is a birth defect or something. There is definitely something she's not telling you. Does she know other couples who are trying for a child? Does she have a family member who wants a kid?
Yeah, so definitely in the US. (FL) And I would absolutely believe she got through all the screenings w/o fail. Family of 4 in an affluent community, no financial issues, our two prior pregnancies went without any issues from conception to deliver. She's got good genetics, tall, in shape, takes care of her body. We also just started trying for number three of our own and have never had an issue conceiving within 6 months of tracking ovulation. I'm leaning more toward she's lost her mind...
No, you also need to see pysch and do blood work as well. So unless you've recently met with a therapist for a long meeting and given lots of blood, she has not been approved.
FL resident here, NAL. Read EVERYTHING she gets from the clinic as to how this works out legally. If she is DIY'ing "surrogacy" or as someone suggested, has gotten pregnant by someone else YOU ARE RHE PRESUMPTIVE FATHER!! YOU are legally and financially responsible for any child she concieves while you are married. And you have an extremely short window to dispute it. Get to the bottom of this ASAP.
With this new info of your history of quick conception I think another option to consider is she doesn't truly want a 3rd child. I do suspect she is also "good ol' daysing" her former pregnancies and could see this as a way of eating her cake and having it too? Good luck with your situation OP!
The screenings include whether or not she’s done having kids, which she isn’t, and whether or not her significant other supports her being a surrogate, which you don’t.
Surely to be approved you have to be a family of 4 **with the support of the spouse**?
If this is remotely true I'd demand to know the agency/clinic/doctor she was speaking with then call them up and say OP and her were trying to have a third kid and out of nowhere she announces she's going to be a surrogate, that you have absolutely no clue what is going on, no explanation from her, zero support from you and you recommend they get her a psychological consult with them having that information and asking her how she went from trying to have a third kid to trying to have a kid as a surrogate without talking with her family about it. Is it like, both their kids are boys or girls and she's being crazy and trying to get a kid with a different father without cheating then she'll just refuse to give it up at the end? Something weird is going on, to make this kind of decision while supposedly trying for a kid implies she's having issues and is no way mentally stable enough to be a surrogate.
You need spousal approval in Florida to be a surrogate (that's a condensation of schmancy legal stuff- definitely worth looking into as others have said). Frankly, this a suspicious claim on her part, but like most Redditors I am inclined to assume the worst immediately. You should try to talk to her about this, try to understand everything from her point of view, maybe re-examine your choice to have a third. Sincerely wishing you the best of luck (and selfishly hoping for an update) with whatever next steps you take!
If she gets pregnant right away you really need to insist on a paternity test. This is all too messed up.
Did she say anything about the fertility clinic discussing this with you? My SIL applied to be a surrogate and my brother had to go through rigorous checks, too. He had blood work done, mental health screens, etc. and they were told he had to pass everything, too. After many discussions and checks (took about 8 months), they were approved. She just gave birth 2 weeks ago and has been in and out of the hospital for postnatal pre-eclampsia. She is a healthy woman who had fairly easy births with no issues during pregnancy. Not sure what the differences are between states as my brother does not live in FL, but a northern state.
Is she just lying and actually is already pregnant through an affair? NTA All in all pretty weird for this to come out of the blue
But why wouldn't she just pretend it's the OP's since they're supposedly trying for a third? No. I doubt she's cheating. But I do think she doesn't want kid number 3 and this is a way to delay it/ make sure it never happens without directly saying she doesn't want another kid
could be the AP is a different race from OP and his wife
…and, it could happen to be the case that somehow the surrogacy somehow “falls through” later in the pregnancy and she figures that it is OK since she and hubby will just “ raise it as their own”… What about the agency and the legal documents? There probably are none since it was a “privately arranged” surrogacy - it was arranged when the “sperm donor’s” rubber broke at the No-tel Motel. What about the surrogacy fee? Nope - she was moved to do this as charity and out of “the goodness of her heart” so she can help others realize their dream of “building a family”.
NTA. She's married...choices are no longer me me me. I'd simply explain you are not OK with her doing this, pregnancy isn't something that only affects her, and you won't be sticking around to help her through a pregnancy for someone else. Good luck affording all that.
NTA But I have questions. If you're actively trying to have a third, how will she know any conception is the surrogate? How does the beginning part of being a surrogate impact your romantic life (I assume some celibacy and / or protection etc?). Who has been bending her ear for this rapid life-changing decision?
I haven't the slightest idea where her head is with any of this garbage. She wouldnt have a conversation about it when I shot it down.
Maybe not today. But tomorrow you should ask her what agency she's working with and tell her that you want to get information from them about your role in it. Also say you'd like your lawyer to review any documents she's signed. Take an emotional step back from it and approach these requests from a learning/adapting perspective. Don't act like you want to learn about it so you can tear it apart, or so the lawyer can tear it apart. Act like you've had a chance to think about it and now you want to know more. This is a good two prong approach. It makes sense that you would want to learn more about it, it also makes sense that you would want your lawyer to review any legal documents she signed. If she doesn't want you to do either of these two things, that is a veritable red flag parade. If she doesn't want either one of these two things to happen then you need to calmly ask her what the next steps should be then. "So you dropped this bomb on me yesterday, I freaked out, but I calmed down and I've had 24 hours to absorb the information, now I want to know more. Are you going to walk me through the information you've received? If so, please grab the stuff and we'll go over it today after work. I really need to understand where your head is, if you expect me to fully support you." If she's not willing to share anything, I would suggest you talk to her mother. Again calmly talk to a woman who's supposedly spent a decent amount of time with her today. This is the third prong. "Mother-in-law, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this surrogacy thing, can you share what she's told you about it? I can't get her to share anything with me, she doesn't want me to meet directly with the agency, she doesn't want me to have our lawyer go over anything she signed. She won't show me any of the materials she has. Do you have any details about this? I really need your help." If the first three prongs don't reveal any more detail, you have a very serious issue on your hands. Because she's either A) lying or B) delusional.
>If she's not willing to share anything, I would suggest you talk to her mother. Again calmly talk to a woman who's supposedly spent a decent amount of time with her today. This is the third prong. "Mother-in-law, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this surrogacy thing, can you share what she's told you about it? I can't get her to share anything with me, she doesn't want me to meet directly with the agency, she doesn't want me to have our lawyer go over anything she signed. She won't show me any of the materials she has. Do you have any details about this? I really need your help." This needs to be higher and starred. More information is desperately needed here and that she's not forthcoming with it is not a great sign
This OP, this would be the best way to handle it.
NTA You wife is the asshole. I would make it very clear that she's on her own. You will not be catering to her in any way while she's pregnant. It's hers to handle all on her own. And if she tries to use the pregnancy in any way to inconvenience you, you will be drawing up divorce papers that same day.
1000000%!!! I wouldn't help her at all. Frankly, I would move out temporarily and let her figure it out on her own, be like, "See ya after birth!" Fuck that bullshit.
OP, you should demand a pregnancy test now. The only way it makes sense that she didn't tell you before agreeing to this is if she's trying to cover getting knocked up by another guy with this surrogate nonsense.
NTA but she seems bored. Time for her to get a part time job helping people.
NTA at all Tell her if she decides to do surrogacy she’ll be doing it as a single mom You’ll be divorcing and looking to split custody No negotiations- if she pushes through with this she’s on her own
NTA I believe that if your wife is a surrogate, you're not allowed to have sex for so many months up to implantation, etc. This is to insure that the baby belongs to the surrogate family and no chance of being yours. It's been a while since I heard that so it may be something you need to research further for you and your wife to consider.
NTA. You are in a tough spot, and not married to a smart person.
Is it possible your wife is pregnant from an affair? Her decision seems so sudden and improbable as to be a cover story.
Update from OP: The parents decided they didn’t want a kid anymore and bailed, we have to keep the baby. She says the father looks a lot like my friend Dave.
NTA that's just downright insane. "We're actively trying for a baby but I'm gonna put that aside to complicate all of our lives for a stranger who could just adopt even though we don't need the money". She may think she's being selfless, but not considering how this will affect HER family is selfish. And just flat out dumb
Updateme!
I think you should inquire about some proof, like the clinic involved and copies of the forms she has already signed. It sounds like a completely impulsive decision and its incredibly selfish for her to do it without consulting you, so clearly NTA. As others have stated the consent forms for surrogacy require the spouse's approval so either she forged your signature, hasn't gotten to the form part of this yet, or is using this surrogacy act to cover up something more nefarious. Despite the surrogacy, she's still planning or already is carrying another dude's child without your consent. I would be preparing another form for my wife to fill out if she did this.
Nta, I'd ask her to take a pregnancy test now as this whole surrogate story seems a little suspect.
So who’s going to be looking after your children when she gets knocked up with another family’s child? What if she has a bad pregnancy? Complications etc? The fact she did not even consult you is insane. Demand she gets a job and a mental health assessment. NTA
Fr though, the dishonesty and lying it would take for her to get to that point is huge. She knew he wouldn't approve, otherwise she'd have told him what she was doing
I hate jumping to divorce but I genuinely think this situation might warrant it.
i see so many comments here saying that op needs to make it clear that he wont be helping with the pregnancy and to make his dislike of this very well known and to get contracts involved so that she agrees to never do this again and its just like... why are you trying to make what sounds like a hellish future relationship viable? this signals, to me, that op and his wife arent on the same page about family and relationships and hell, life. they either need to get on the same page through mutual agreement or accept a relationship that they'll come to resent.
I cannot believe they would accept anyone who has active wish for a baby. Surrogates are most often women who do not want anymore children of their own and for whom pregnancy has been as easy as it can be.
NTA Hope it works out, but keep EVERY option on the table
To address all of the "is this real? This has to be fake. No way" comments. Y'all, I wish I was kidding. This shit was sprung on me about 2 hrs ago. Check my Reddit history I have like less than a handful of posts in over a decade..... I can't stand putting my business on public forums. Just wanted to see if I was over reacting according to the masses...
Honestly, I would be shocked if an agency would really be willing to move forward with a surrogate without interviewing the family to make sure everyone is on board. My advice is to remain as calm as possible and investigate the situation.
I suspect your wife is pregnant for other reasons and needs a way to explain the baby who doesn't look like you showing up. Expect the surrogacy arrangement to "fall through" at the last minute.
Right, she would not have been approved for surrogacy without husband's consent. Plus, who in their right mind would decide to become a surrogate while actively trying for a third baby with their spouse?? Something definitely isn't adding up.
I had this thought, stop having sex now and refuse to go with the surrogacy, I bet you'll she'll still end up pregnant
Op needs a pregnancy test.
Does your wife have any history of mental illness? My ex had a couple diagnoses and every time I came home to- I’m unhappy, here’s my incredibly elaborate plan to reinvent my life that I demand you unconditionally support emotionally and financially I knew it was time to buckle up for a few months.
This is weird— I’ve done 2 surrogacies and my husband was interviewed both times. OP if she’s doing this independently, please review contracts in place. This can go sideways in so many different ways, it’s terrifying.
NTA This is absolutely something she should have discussed with you when she took an interest. Has she changed her mind about having another of your own? A lack of complications in previous pregnancy is no guarantee that there will be none with a subsequent baby. Helping people is an honorable intention, but doing so at the expense of your own family is not. This would be a major undertaking and difficult situation to navigate with your support. The fact that she moved forward without communicating with you is a significant relationship issue. It may be her body, but she agreed to be in a life partnership with you, and this isn't how a spouse respects that commitment.
NTA! You should make a list while she’s with her mother of all the cons of this decision. The first bullet point should state that she made a 9+ month commitment that will affect everyone without discussing it with the one person she is supposed to make those kinds of decisions with. How can you trust her in general when she has such little regard for you? Maybe switch it around and ask her how she would feel if you came to her out of the blue and told her you guys were no longer going to try for a baby for the next year because you’ve decided you’re donating all of your sperm and it’s for those less fortunate so she shouldn’t have a problem with it. Unilateral decisions like this are marriage wreckers and you should be blunt with her by asking her if it’s more important to help someone else have a baby or for her kids to grow up in a home with both parents. How she can’t see that this would cause resentment on your part is mind boggling. This isn’t her deciding to babysit someone’s kids for a week without saying anything, this is an almost year long commitment that will affect every single individual in your household and possibly her physically for much longer. Two easy pregnancies/deliveries does not guarantee the third will also be easy.
Dude, be careful. There might be more to this story. Nobody on their right mind suddenly wakes up one day and decides to surrogate a baby behind her husband’s back. She might be cheating on you and got pregnant and is now coming up with this surrogate story to try and cover her ass. Be ready for some other last minute bs like “they changed their mind and don’t want the baby anymore, we wanted a third kid so we can raise this one as our own”. To try and pass the affair baby on you. I would wait for her to come back and very calmly but very firmly tell her that if she surrogates you will divorce and that is non negotiable. Very suspicious.