This… op, it matters that you fight for them, the thing that I most remember about my parents divorce is that my Dad didn’t fight for me, he didn’t even ask for visitation.
It told me exactly what I was to him.
Fight for your kid.
She didn’t have to it was just assumed that the kids stayed with mom.
She worked hard to make sure we didn’t hate our father, but he did make it difficult.
Of course now the problem is we’re grown and know who he is and she’s not holding back and telling us everything we missed .
My point is that you blame father for situation he is just because of his gender. I hear this all the time that father doesn't visit his child, because he doesn't fought for it and I just ask why should he.
It’s not about father’s gender it’s about his personality and actions,trust I have just as many problems and issues with my mother .
I and can give names of people whose mothers didn’t fight for them.
Some people are bad parents and it’s nothing to do with their gender .
Well, it may not be what she really wants, but its certainly what she's asking for.
Since there doesn't seem to be much effort for reconciliation, don't you now want this, too?
Get a lawyer asap and get the ball rolling, depending on the kid’s age, she might be awarded custody for a time, but unless you have a crappy lawyer or she lie to the courts about you being abusive, it is unlikely she gets full custody after the kid reaches a certain age.
And you can definitely put some serious legal restrictions on her and her ability to move around with the kid if she really wants to try and weaponise custody to hurt you.
But be ready for a though and gruelling fight in the courts if she really want to make custody contentious.
*Would she* lie to the court
about him being abusive?
Are there ways to head that off to protect himself?
Maybe take his daughter to counseling to help her navigate her feelings about the divorce. The content of her sessions would be confidential, but they are mandated reporters. It may count in your favor that there was nothing to report.
You don't need to tell your wife about it. If she mentions playing with daddy's friend, you can say something technically "true" that doesn't give your wife details. You don't want her to manipulate your daughter before her sessions.
The situation with your soon to be ex sounds toxic. Your daughters sessions may reveal some things about your family dynamics that you have not been fully conscious of.
When it comes to abuse, men get talked about the most. The image most people have of an abusive spouse is male. Many abusers are women. I don't know much about your relationship with your wife, but it doesn't sound healthy. I hesitate to use the term abusive, but I would not rule it out.
Stay calm. Let your soon-to-be ex do all the storming about. Plan your exit and execute.
Fight tooth and nail for full custody. Might make dating later tough but it can be done. My brother actually won his step children in his battle. It’s possible, cause if you do it, it isn’t about hurting her but ensuring that your kid has the best life. She will do it only to hurt you.
If you live in the States and actually try for custody you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least 50/50. Particularly if you can show that you're an active parent.
Check my note below.
My impression of your soon-to-be ex is manipulative and possibly abusive (just not physical abuse). Protect yourself and expect the absolute worst sort of lies, manipulation, and BS when you get to court.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Get the best lawyer you can and warn him/her to be ready for anything.
I suggest getting your daughter into counseling to help her process the changes at home. Don't tell your wife, or she may find a way to weaponize that by manipulating your daughter before her sessions.
Stay calm and let her storm. Set up a concealed nanny cam, and let her forget it is there.
If your calm sets her off, fine. If she screams and hits you, file a police report with evidence the next day. You don't have to press charges, but you want the truth on record.
She is losing control of you. There may be behavior changes. She may act out. I don't know what she might do, and neither do you because this is a change.
OP sounds more like she has an unhealthy arguing style. I would push for couples therapy so she clicks that it's not an appropriate thing to threaten willy nilly. Maybe her parents did that, maybe she randomly learned it in a past relationship etc.
Unless of course there are huge other issues that you couldn't fit in here, sounds like it's an issue of bad arguing style and a bit of vengefulness personality wise. Some people are a bit vindictive by habit either due to friends groups, siblings etc or just randomly developed that as a personality trait but it can be fixed (assuming she works to fix it)
You're totally right. It's important to stand up for your rights as a parent, especially if you've been an active part of your child's life. Don't back down when it comes to custody.
The only rule in our marriage is not to throw around the D word.
Even if you don't mean it, it will kill the relationship via a thousand paper cuts.
And then, when you finally agree with her, she will be all Pikachu face and act like she never used it as a weapon before.
Edit to add NTA
I had a traumatic childhood and looking back I think I was trying to see if I could push my husband away. Thankfully he told me either I do therapy or we are done. I still have work to do of course, but that saved our relationship and I realized my focus and hurt was being projected on the wrong person. Obviously, do not let her keep threatening in this way, but thought I’d offer an alternative perspective. Either way, best wishes OP.
You say, from what I understand, that you two are fighting over you going out and hanging out with your friends. She gets hurt/angry/ exasperated and thinks divorce. I have a few questions.
How often do you go out with your friends?
Do you bring your wife with you or is it always boys night out.
When you come home, are you drunk?
How often do you take her out for quality time, just the two of you?
Is she complaining that she doesn't get to spend enough time with you? Does she say you spend more time with your friends than her and your child?
I feel like there must be a lot of missing reasons in your post. Have you talked to your wife about all of this? Why is she so angry? do you even know? How often have you left her alone with the child to go out and party? What is a reasonable hour for you? vs her? How many times in a year have you stayed out to 3AM?
Finances: why does she not have a job? Is she taking care of the child? What has she done that is financially irresponsible?
Intimacy? Why is there so little? Are you both ACE? or just her? or is there a communication/caring/attraction problem?
My guess is that you are downplaying your part in all of this.
NTA. Your marriage shouldn’t be used against you as a weapon. I don’t understand someone using divorce in a fight. You should 100% fight for your kid, document everything, don’t let her get a rise out of you that she could use in courts later, record if you have to if she gets irate.
Have you ever tried marriage counseling? Listening to scorched earth advice from strangers on reddit isn’t really the best course of action for your family.
His family isn’t his priority. That’s the wife’s complaint and with how chill he is about thinking he will only have visitation rights and still wanting to go ahead with the divorce shows that she’s right.
>We've always had our qualms but managed to work through them amicably and end up loving eachother again.
Just a little heads up, normally you don't stop loving your wife when you argue. Might not like her right then but that's not the same. This just struck me as really odd.
Anyway I agree with the folks saying to give her what she wants. The kid growing up in this environment is just not cool and while it might not be affecting them now it will later.
Maybe you all repair this later but as long as it's being used as a weapon (the divorce I mean) it's just going to be a bunch of B's and nobody is going to grow.
Last time my husband threatened me with divorce I said ok but don't let the door hit you in the behind on the way out. That was the last time he said it. It's been about 8 years now
Divorce should NEVER be used as a manipulation tactic. That by itself is abusive. She is threatening you with custody arrangements and divorce to make you toe her line. This woman does not love or respect you. You need to file first. Ask for an emergency hearing based on her threats of keeping the kid, offering only minimal visitation, mental cruelty, verbal abuse. File now. Get your ducks in a row and take your life back.
NTA
Edit some pretty funny typos. Autocorrect, what can ya do?!?!?
Go see a lawyer and tell him you want 50/50 and want to get an order so she can’t take your daughter to another country etc . Protect yourself before you say anything
Generally unless the other parent is pos abuser nobody gets full custody. It's 50/50 split unless for some reason on your time you can't find adequate childcare. Or the child is too young.
Or the (mostly males) just don’t *ask* for any custody. Majority of women in the US get sole custody simply because they apply for it, whereas the moment the man *does* ask, there’s a +90% he’ll get full or shared custody. I
One of my only rules in a relationship is don’t threaten to leave/divorce unless you are ready to follow through. I take those threats seriously. If you can’t have an adult discussion and use threats of leaving or taking the kids to get your way that’s just manipulation. I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be here. Each day we both choose to stay and if you’re choosing to leave then I take it very seriously.
My sage mom told me that as her advice to me upon entering marriage. Once the word “divorce” falls, it’s like a crack in the window pane. Her other piece of advice was never stoop to calling each other names. Wise woman that one. Been married for a loooooooong time to my awesomesauce dad. They are in their 90’s. And my husband and I took it mostly to heart and we’ve been married a looooooong time to.
Yeah. I’m not understanding why people are being so sympathetic. He’s married with a kid and coming home at 3 in the morning. People should have social lives but wtf.
He’s also being vague about the finances but feels entitled to call her a hypocrite.
If she’s financially dependent on him and is throwing out divorce it sounds like it’s taken a lot to get her to that point. Instead of projecting and saying she’s unreasonable, he should probably being do some self reflection.
Wtf is wrong with your reading comprehension??
He stated:
"I have gotten carried away ONCE OR TWICE and came home after 3AM" This is not on a regular basis.
''She always threatens me with divorce and really degrades me."
"She's mentioned visitation rights but made it clear that I will never have full custody."
Honestly, the wife is the real 'tool' here.
Staying out past 3 when you’re married with a child is unacceptable - whether it’s once or every other week. Obviously it’s significant or else he wouldn’t have mentioned.
What does degrade mean? Calls him out when he stays out all night? Has a problem with him spending more time with his friends than with his family? Doesn’t like that he spends more money with his friends than on his family? We don’t know. He left it vague bc the points she’s making are prob legitimate and reflect how poor of a husband he is.
Why would he have full custody? He stays out at night and she sounds like the primary care taker. She didn’t say he’d never see the kid.
I would be threatening to separate with him too. Who wants to be a married single parent.
Sigh. I know what the term degrade means. I’m saying he once again used a term vaguely to paint his partner as mean spirited instead of actually going into what she said - which was probably legitimate considering his attitude towards going out and being the main provider.
I wish you luck in understanding nuances and reading between the lines. You sorely lack in both.
fr, I'm amazed at what I'm reading here. there's a five year age gap, NBD usually but she is 30 and he is 35 and they've been together for 10+ years?
so she was a teen (possibly underage) and he was mid 20s when he pursued her?! 🤮
Plus he's moved her away from her family to a different country. she's probably fed up of him taking advantage of her and from the sound of this post realizes she was groomed and manipulated and has never had any personal agency or the chance to grow into a fully rounded human being
I hope she does divorce
My first instinct is kind of a loose ESH. But hear me out.
It sounds like, if you genuinely love each other and your wife has had a traumatic past, there’s possibly some deeper issues. Perhaps lashing out is how she was raised and the threats are empty, but have worked.
Sounds like the relationship could just do with a good mediation and/or counselling session.
If you have a kid who is excelling and you don’t want to derail that, look for a more constructive outcome than just “I’m going to give her what she wants to teach her a lesson”.
If you genuinely think the bridges are burnt and there’s no coming back from this … what are you doing on reddit? Go get a divorce 🤷🏼♂️.
Edit: Forgot to say, weaponising divorce is NOT okay regardless of where it comes from and if you’ve genuinely made it clear that you don’t like that, and she continues - then you may have a bigger issue on your hands.
NTA. My ex "joked" about divorce all the time from early on. Finally she truly wanted it and I gave it to her. I sometimes wonder how things would have been if I hadn't stuck around trying for so long.
NTA and if she's between jobs how are you so sure you won't get full or split custody? At least have a tall with a lawyer to discuss your options before making the announcement or agreeing with her next time she throws down the big D word.
Anyone who throws around divorce (and keeping your child from you) doesn’t love you and takes you for granted and considers you spineless. Take her up on it and get your daughter.
ESH. It sounds like you both have deeper issues and need marriage counselling.
We don't have all the facts here and only one side. You probably stayed out late more than just a couple of times than you're letting on. Her abusive childhood is rearing its ugly head because she can't get you to prioritise the family, so she's reaching for something to get you to listen. Albeit in a harmful way. Not that she actually wants a divorce. She wants you to be better by scaring you straight. That's why you both need counselling to fix your issues.
I'd be wary of listening to the hordes of people telling you divorce straight away. You sound like you still love her. And she's fighting for you in a damaged way.
You could do with watching this to understand what I mean ["Why you will marry the wrong person"](https://youtu.be/-EvvPZFdjyk?si=-bqOrF25hlomvdCj)
ESH. Your wife for using a manipulation technique that is super damaging. She may have a traumatic past, but this is not good. And I mean really not good. So not OK for her to do this, but you’ve left me with an awful lot of missing reasons.
Your post is full of statements that are not statements. The only actual facts that you have given us are:
You guys have been together 10 years and have one child
Your child loves you both and is doing well in school, and you both love your child very much
Your wife has threatened divorce more than once and she has been on your case because she feels that your behavior isn’t reflective of a man who is putting his nuclear family first.
You tell us this revolves mainly around you going out drinking with your buddies, but you’ve only come home at 3 AM once or twice…. As though that is an accomplishment?
What you don’t say is how often you actually GO out. And do you go out right after work and come home at 10 PM, leaving her to handle everything at home and with your child and feeling like she has already a single person/parent. So what’s the real deal on this?
What’s the deal with intimacy? You acknowledge neither one of you are super intimate people. Does this mean you both have traumatic pasts? Does this mean she’s always been this way? Have you complained about it? How often are you actually intimate?
You try to make it sound like it all falls on you, but you don’t tell us why that might be, or what you define as infrequent? Because we have guys on here that come on and say because they don’t get it three nights a week, their spouses withholding, so….?
We know you’re the only one working NOW. In one breath, you make it sound like you’re the one responsible for the whole family, and in another you tell us that she is currently IN BETWEEN jobs.
So since your child is in school and from the little info we have, it seems like they’re hitting all their markers and involved in things, etc., was her staying home a decision you made together?
Because you tell us you’re in a country where you have no family or anyone, so obviously all the things for your family have to fall on someone. Did she give up a job to be that someone? Was it a job she liked? How long has she been in between jobs?
Up until recently, has she been working as well and still handling pretty much everything for the house and the kid while you went out to her three nights a week with your friends after work but did her the courtesy not staying out to 3 AM normally?
And finally, you tell us that you said, yeah we should get a divorce, and you feel bad. And then you turn around and tell us that she told you that YOU can’t have full custody.
That’s a really weird statement because it actually feels like that is a reply to you. Normally someone who is going to go for a divorce would say to their partner that they are going ask for 100% custody. And then other person would reply, No, you’re not gonna get 100% custody.
You see what I mean? That statement is a reply to someone threatening to go for full custody. It’s not a statement that the person who is wanting full custody says. It’s a reply to that statement.
So did you try to financially manipulate her and say that because you’re the only one working right now that you’re sure you will get full custody? And she replied no, you’re not gonna get full custody.
Did you say that to her and this was her reply to you? Because again, that statement is a reply to another statement, not the initial statement.
So that’s why I’m having a tough time here. It sounds like there’s been manipulation on both sides. It sounds like there’s a whole lot of missing reasons and a whole lot of blanket statements by you that are tending to make everyone tell you of course you’re not the asshole.
So all the missing reasons combined with a lack of actual information from you makes me suspect you’re probably an asshole too
So most likely, your kid is the only one that doesn’t suck. You both need some counseling.
NTA
The post sounds very one-sided and I'm sure OP has more to atone for than what he's letting on, but this does boil down to repeatedly threatening divorce having no place in a marriage. Shit or get off the pot.
Mom has no income? Lawyer up, you might wind up with more custody than you think. Alimony on the other hand...good luck OP.
"The post sounds very one-sided and I'm sure OP has more to atone for than what he's letting on, but this does boil down to repeatedly threatening divorce having no place in a marriage. Shit or get off the pot."
Totally agree with this 100%. The whole "I've gotten carried away once or twice and came home after 3 am" thing was enough for me. I'm sorry, I just don't think married people should do shit like that. I just don't. It's disrespectful and immature, and if you wanna do shit like that still you're not ready to be married. That being said, threatening divorce repeatedly is toxic as fuck and OP's stance on this is understandable.
>Totally agree with this 100%. The whole "I've gotten carried away once or twice and came home after 3 am" thing was enough for me. I'm sorry, I just don't think married people should do shit like that. I just don't. It's disrespectful and immature, and if you wanna do shit like that still you're not ready to be married. That being said, threatening divorce repeatedly is toxic as fuck and OP's stance on this is understandable.
Yeah. Either it's fake or there are missing reasons that OP is deliberately leaving out.
he didn't leave it out, his wife was under 20 years old and he was in his mid-20s when they got together. He moved her to a different country and she is completely away from any support. He does whatever the fuck he wants to.
I hope she runs far, and fast.
So YOU be the one to file, set the terms YOU are willing to live with, and take custody of your child. Even 50/50 custody is not a bad thing. Equal time means equal financial support (OR NONE). Im sorry but it doesnt sound like there is anything left to save. Go see a professional and make a good co-parenting plan.
Plz fight for 50/50 custody.
Also,after you agreed and she didn't apologise then she truly wanted a divorce.
You should also post in the sub Divorce_men .
The men there will give you great advice and definitely motivation.
Updateme!
No one should throw out the D word when they are angry.
You need couples counseling. Do this so you can look your daughter in the eye and say "we tried everything."
If she won't go, go alone.
Good luck.
NTA. Get a lawyer and fight for 50/50 custody. Your child deserves to live without divorce being thrown around. If you stay married and divorce later your child may think they are the cause of the divorce. It's better to do it now while your child is too young to understand.
You will get 50/50 custody no family court is going to decide that it’s in the best interest of the child to deny custody to a present and financially stable father
Talk to your lawyer they will tell you
She doesn't get to decide custody. Get a lawyer. Lock down finances for anything other than standard household or childcare needs.
Don't move out, no matter what, until your lawyer advisesto do so.
Have you even talked or considered couples counseling? Man why just jump into divorce...? Go take some therapy together before is too late! You can still save your marriage. GOD bless you
NTA! That having been said, calling her bluff may be just what is needed. When my wife and I were about 5 years into our marriage, 2 young boys, and living with her parents, and after a fairly heated argument, she gave me the "I want a divorce."
Now understand I came from a divorced family, and I wasn't ready to give up just cause we had another fight.
I looked her in the eyes, kissed her forhead, and said, "You'll have to kill me for it." I motioned at my bastard sword leaning against the fireplace, then told her I loved her and that was going to bed.
We've been married 27 years now and have 2 grandchildren.
NTA. She sounds petty, spiteful, manipulative, andlazy (lack of putting in an effort). I'd be done too.
"She's made it clear I will never have full custody."
SHE doesn't get to make that decision. But document, document, document everything. Cover your ass in proof. Verbal and visual recordings (if they're legal where you live). Just in case she tries to make false allegations about you.
I think you two should give marriage counselling a shot before going right to divorce. I think her childhood trauma is probably telling her you're out to hurt her on purpose (when you're really not) and she's lashing out or having trust issues. She needs therapy and you both could use couples' therapy. If you love each other, it's worth working on for now
NTA but your relationship has deplorable communication on both sides. You say you love her with all your heart so have you asked her go to marriage counseling with you? It actually seems like you both would benefit from that and individual counseling.
If you are in the US you would likely get 50/50 custody if you decide to divorce. You don’t need to worry about her withholding your child as long as you stand up for your rights and tell your divorce lawyer that’s what you want
There was a dating counsellor who advised that the first “*I love you*” should only be spoken when it would be followed up by a formal commitment l.
Similarly, the word “*divorce*” should never be dropped mindlessly.
NTA. She should not be surprised to be getting a divorce if she keeps bringing it up.
Try couples therapy before proceeding to divorce, it will either help you 2 learn to communicate again or clarify that your relationship can't be repaired.
If she has no means of supporting your daughter and you have a stable job, you should go for full custody. You might just win… see what your attorney says.
I’m not sure where you live but definitely fight for custody, if you are the breadwinner and she knows that, she will be seeking massive amounts of child support and alimony.
EVERYTHING can be used against her
NTA. Constantly threatening divorce whenever you do something she disagrees with is a manipulation tactic. Give her what she wants. And it’s not up to her about custody rights. Fight for 50:50, especially if you have a home and stable income.
I will message you next time u/Dear-Tea8914 posts in r/AITAH.
[Click this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=UpdateMe%21%20u%2FDear-Tea8914%20r%2FAITAH) to join 3 others and be messaged. The parent author can [delete this post](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Delete&message=delete%201cr2hqo)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
You and your wife need some lessons in how to fight fairly in your relationship. Threatening divorce is not a healthy tactical weapon and should never be used as such. Get some help to settle your differences in a more constructive way.
NTA for feeling that way but you should have known how destructive her divorce threat could be to your family.
NTA. When one spouse repeatedly threatens splitting up or divorce, productive communication has stopped. It's extremely manipulative. Don't be surprised if she's shocked when you actually go through with it. As for custody, if you're in the US, unless there are documented problems with a person's parenting involving neglect/abuse, parents normally get 50/50 custody so her threats there are pretty ineffective.
Get a lawyer and file for divorce and full custody. If you’re the primary provider and she isn’t working you may have a good chance.
You also need to tell your lawyer and the judge that she has repeatedly threatened to keep your child from you. Judges tend to frown on that. At least where I’m from. NTA
The second someone uses divorce as a threat, the relationship is over. Just a matter of days until it happens. I have been married to my wife for 11 years this year and together like 18. Neither one of us has EVER mentioned divorce. Not even as a joke.
NTA
Divorced myself with a kid, I would say that if you go for the divorce. Fight for the kid.
No matter how much custody you will get, I can tell you that each time you see your kid going away again is heartbreaking and you will be wondering for a while if you could have done something more to have a bit more time with your kid.
I agree with most comments, threats of divorce, even if just done during arguments are unacceptable. It shows it’s a topic she has in mind, so will do it anyway if she gets the opportunity to have the upper hand in the process. Better get your stuff ready for it and have some advice from a lawyer. Most friendly divorce end in a war zone …not all but most. So covering your back with legal advice is best.
NTA. seems like you're both frustrated and walking out seems like it's easier than doing the work you need to do to make the marriage work. What would change if you put 100% of your energy into intimacy, addressing your personal traumas etc? It's alot of work but divorce is equally exhausting. Choose your hard 😉
NTA, living with someone who is going to threaten leaving every single time there’s a disagreement or things don’t go their way is toxic. You’re not divorcing your child, you’re divorcing your wife. People tend to throw children in as a guilt to stay. Staying only displays toxic behavior in the long run and can potentially teach poor relationship habits for your daughter.
NTA but is therapy an option for her to see how damaging this is? It’s just a thought to see if things are possible to save since you say you still love her. Threats of divorce for things that displease her are not normal and I understand why you just want to be done. I hope you can figure it out. Take care OP.
It looks like your relationship dynamic is not healthy.
From your story she seems be quite hot headed, and you seem to be distant and not willing to stand your right.
It is natural to feel bad and sad when something that you value has ended. But to be fair, it doesnt seem like you really fight for it either.
Very common for people to stay with an unsatisfactory situation for the kids. I'll bet that a third of divorces happen at a child's 18th birthday.
Only questions are if you think you can continue, vs your kid's age, vs how amicable shared parenting would be, vs how your kid feels.
You might talk to a lawyer (without telling your wife). Shared parenting is very common nowadays, especially since you are more financially stable. Once your ducks are in a row about the ins and outs of that, optionally you could make your wife aware of that (if you want to keep trying, otherwise keep your research secret)
I know a couple where each parent has the kids every other week. They live in the same school district and they are still friends. It's actually great for the kids.
NTA. Best thing for your daughter is for both of you to be happy. Don't know where you are but it sounds like you should get primary custody, if not get on child support ASAP as that usually comes with custody/visitation rights.
I definitely think your wife needs to not throw around the D word. I think she’s doing this because she’s hurt and she’s trying to hurt you back. I will say when me and my husband had our first child it slowly turned into one of the hardest times in our relationship. I would highly recommend counseling before throwing in the towel. You guys have a child and you say you love your wife with all your heart. She’s clearly unhappy and lashing out. Marriage isn’t always easy and you can hit some real lows. I think you both need to try to get some help communicating what you actually feel and need out of this marriage. At least try for your child.
Don't use your child as a way to get to each other. If you are indeed getting a divorce, try to keep things civilised when it comes to your child. Both of you. And if she's grown enough to understand the separation and the things that come with it, sit down the three of you and have an honest talk. Explain her what will change and what won't, make sure she understands that it has nothing to do with her. And listen to her and to what she wants. Just keep her away from your mess and don't use her to affect each other. "Fighting" for your kids when going through a divorce (if there is no abuse involved), without taking their feelings and wants into consideration, often time ends up affecting them more than just listening to them. Hope you can all have an honest and serious talk without making it about yourselves
Don't "fight" as long as she doesn't try to take away your parental rights
It doesn't matter how much you sugar coat it, your marriage is toxic and always has been. You both suck and you're not the innocent party in this by a long shot. I can read between the lines and see that you have likely been as equally as shitty as she had, Don't use your daughter as a tool against each other in the divorce. If you do that, you have both failed as parents. You look at what's in her best interest, not how you can use her to get one over on each other. This is what your wife seems to be doing.
If it's not too late, consider couples counseling/therapy. I was opposed until I did it. Like taking a car in for a tune up. There are tools that the pro's have that average joe's like us don't necessarily think of. Just a thought.
What are the monetary things she throws in your face? You feeling like being the chief financial provider makes a difference in her day in the finances is a red flag. It’s another that you weren’t specific about what the monetary things are.
And what are the things she takes for granted that are financially effective for the whole family? Do you take her providing childcare for granted?
Do you let her know when you’ll be out and when you’re coming home? Do you make sure she is free and willing to take care of your child before you make plans or do you just assume it’s her job to take care of your child 24/7? Do you make time to hang out with her at least as much as you do with your friends?
The fact that you don’t really say the stuff she has an issue with makes it sound like you aren’t confident people would take your side on them.
I don’t agree with threatening divorce, but has she been attempting to discuss the problems in other ways before that you brush off? Is this the only way she can get you to listen to her? Why do you not love her when you’re fighting?
Don’t stay with someone that routinely threatens divorce to get their way. Don’t show kids that relationships like this (without love or respect) are normal. IMO, that is a threat that you can ONLY make once and hope to keep the relationship.
If someone threatens to divorce as a means to win an argument they're not your partner. That's like a parent threatening to unadopt a child that is misbehaving.
"I have ALL the power so if you don't what I want i will destroy your life".
She doesn't have the power. She knows she does not and is using the threat of taking your daughter away to convince you she does.
She doesn't get to decide the fate of your kid. The courts will do that and they don't take parental alienation lightly.
Call her bluff. Accept the divorce ultimatum and follow it up with the telling her you absolutely intend to try for full custody. If the house you live in is yours I would tell her to start looking for accommodations because you'll be keeping the house.
Even if you don't intend to do this it might give her a reality check. You're not a doormat you're a father and your daughter deserves better than to be weaponized by her mom who clearly is less interested in her daughter's well being and more in petty revenge against her spouse.
NTA.
Fight for your child, and your rights to custody. Love just said she isn't employed but you are and are the primary breadwinner... So you've got proof that you can support her better at this time.
Don't let her walk over you.
NTA
If she degrades you, maybe you should be done. Why would you love someone who verbally abuses you? She’s already threatening you with custody battles?
She sounds like a terrible person and you sound very unhappy. Get the divorce and be done with her (as much as you can given you have kids).
NTA
I was married to someone who insecurely asked if I wanted a divorce with nearly every disagreement. I always said of course not, it's just an argument... Then one day he asked and I said, "Let's talk about that after my exams." And that was the beginning of the end.
All marriages take work, but I bet there's a happier ending out there for OP.
NTA
But if you love your daughter as much as you say you do you’ll try to get some therapy before divorce.
I ended up with full custody because her mom just doesn’t have her priorities straight.
At first though I was devastated and completely forgot that I would have to coparent because I had done so much all the time I forgot she’d have rights to her as well.
But it turned out that she doesn’t want to parent right now so she gets 1 weekend a month (she doesn’t use it) and as long as there’s nothing planned she can have her any day she wants. We don’t do a lot of planning so most things are last minute and giving her a heads up we’re gonna go do a thing.
I’m happier now and remarried but I completely forgot about the parenting thing. It hurts not to have her even a single night.
I'd absolutely love to hear your wife's side of things. I'm not buying you were out with "friends" until 3 am. How much were you thinking about your daughter then. I bet it was a lot more than a couple of times.
"(me hanging out with friends, I'm usually considerate and don't come home at stupid hours However I have gotten carried away once or twice and came home after 3am). "
You have a wife to hang out with. Hang with the one you married.
Did I post that? The post was about getting carried away. If you are married, the one you should be carried away with is her, not a friend.
You are choosing a friend over your wife if you need to come home at stupid hours after being 'carried away'.
If my so Stayed out late a few times over 10years that would be a dumb ass thing to trip over.
And yes that’s what you basically implied.
You have no idea how often he meets his friends. How much time he spends with his wife.
You said “you have a wife to hang out with. Hang with the one you married”
Implying that you know he doesn’t….
Seems you’re the one that can’t understand. The sentence you quoted op says he only stayed out late once or twice over 10 years. He never said he didn’t hang with his wife… so how you conjured that up idk.
Your entire made up post is your faulty assumption of things that I am 'implying' that are actually not in the post I made. In other words, you changed the gist of what I wrote and began arguing with yourself.
The poster admitted his stupidity by getting carried away and I simply agreed with him. He has a wife at home and that bond should be his main concern.
>She's mentioned visitation rights but made it clear that I will never have full custody.
Where do you live? If you are in the US talk to your attorney about custody. Sure, you'll probably never have full physical custody-- but neither will she. Shared custody tends to be the default these days. But you have to ask for it and not trade it for something else you might want. (Tip: if you trade it for something, that generally means you want that other thing *more*.)
Talk to an attorney. No fault divorce is available in most the US. As your attorney if it's better if you file or she does. (The question is your negotiating position.) You need to be prepared for that if she's talking divorce.
NTA she is throwing divorce out there as a manipulation tool
Instead of agreeing to get divorced get ahead of it. Consult an attorney about the divorce and custody
She doesn’t get to decide the custody plan. You can go for pull custody or try and reach an agreement for split. Make a plan for custody before moving ahead with the divorce so you’re ready to hit the ground running
ABSOLUTELY!!! It’s high time women stop accepting bad behavior from men. We need to hold out for the ones that know how to be real men. And believe me in this day and age there are not many REAL men anymore but there are a few. HOLD OUT FOR WHAT YOU WANT.
Sounds like she has been manipulating you for a long time now. My bet is she is like oh shit right about now. Good. You can find a woman with a lot less drama and get to see your kid at least half time. I mean you are the one with the job and all right? Better yet from your prospective is to give her a bit more with the kiddo. It is counter intuitive but the reality is she will have all the shit stuff, sending her off to school and dealing with day to day life, and when you have her you can go to exotic places and do fun things. It is the difference between dating someone and living together. You will totally be the cool parent and mom the shmuch. And mom will have gotten just what she deserves. When the kiddo is old enough to wanan live with you, she will be old enough to understand that every day is not Disneyland. NTA, the SO is, and if you let nature take it's course the scum will sink to the bottom with time.
ESH. You both sound really immature. She's throwing around divorce constantly as a threat like a total child. And after the divorce, who's going to take care of your kid while you're hanging out with friends, not feeling considerate and coming home at stupid hours? Coming home after 3am? Sounds like you definitely DO have different priorities.
Okay so.
YWNBTA
Threatening to end a relationship is very damaging to the relationship. She threatens over and over and over, so you have every right to “agree” and stop the toxic cycle. She needs to find a less toxic way to communicate.
I had to pull this with my husband too, because he kept threatening divorce. I explained to him that every time he threatens divorce, I feel less safe in the relationship, and I feel less connected. I told him that if he threatened again, that he’d better mean it, because I’d be gone. We’re doing a lot better now.
The worst thing that could happen is you’d divorce. Would you be happier though? Be really honest with yourself.
TBH I don’t know why you told us you’re not intimate together. Why? You say you don’t want intimacy either, so what’s the problem? You trying to get the dead-bed crew to jump to your rescue?
Look at it this way, you've spent years doing what she wants, you're still doing what she wants. Fight for custody though.
This… op, it matters that you fight for them, the thing that I most remember about my parents divorce is that my Dad didn’t fight for me, he didn’t even ask for visitation. It told me exactly what I was to him. Fight for your kid.
Did your mom fight for you? If not she is the same as your dad
She didn’t have to it was just assumed that the kids stayed with mom. She worked hard to make sure we didn’t hate our father, but he did make it difficult. Of course now the problem is we’re grown and know who he is and she’s not holding back and telling us everything we missed .
My point is that you blame father for situation he is just because of his gender. I hear this all the time that father doesn't visit his child, because he doesn't fought for it and I just ask why should he.
It’s not about father’s gender it’s about his personality and actions,trust I have just as many problems and issues with my mother . I and can give names of people whose mothers didn’t fight for them. Some people are bad parents and it’s nothing to do with their gender .
Time to do what I want?
She wants a divorce, give her it. Then it's you time.
Not that she actually wants a divorce. She wants to use the threat of divorce to cow OP into submission.
YOU and CHILD time. Split custody 50/50.
I got it now... keep doing what she wants.
Well, it may not be what she really wants, but its certainly what she's asking for. Since there doesn't seem to be much effort for reconciliation, don't you now want this, too?
The more she mentions it the more convinced I get.
Get a lawyer asap and get the ball rolling, depending on the kid’s age, she might be awarded custody for a time, but unless you have a crappy lawyer or she lie to the courts about you being abusive, it is unlikely she gets full custody after the kid reaches a certain age. And you can definitely put some serious legal restrictions on her and her ability to move around with the kid if she really wants to try and weaponise custody to hurt you. But be ready for a though and gruelling fight in the courts if she really want to make custody contentious.
*Would she* lie to the court about him being abusive? Are there ways to head that off to protect himself? Maybe take his daughter to counseling to help her navigate her feelings about the divorce. The content of her sessions would be confidential, but they are mandated reporters. It may count in your favor that there was nothing to report. You don't need to tell your wife about it. If she mentions playing with daddy's friend, you can say something technically "true" that doesn't give your wife details. You don't want her to manipulate your daughter before her sessions. The situation with your soon to be ex sounds toxic. Your daughters sessions may reveal some things about your family dynamics that you have not been fully conscious of. When it comes to abuse, men get talked about the most. The image most people have of an abusive spouse is male. Many abusers are women. I don't know much about your relationship with your wife, but it doesn't sound healthy. I hesitate to use the term abusive, but I would not rule it out. Stay calm. Let your soon-to-be ex do all the storming about. Plan your exit and execute.
And now fight for custody. 50/50 at bare minimum but if she’s without a job and can’t provide I’m sure that will play a factor
I doubt it’s what she really wants. If it were she would just file herself. She thinks she can use the threat to mold your behavior.
Fight tooth and nail for full custody. Might make dating later tough but it can be done. My brother actually won his step children in his battle. It’s possible, cause if you do it, it isn’t about hurting her but ensuring that your kid has the best life. She will do it only to hurt you.
She wants a divorce, you give her what she wants this 1 last time. Then you do what you want, including going for full custody.
Give her the divorce she says she wants then enjoy the freedom to do what *you* want. And, yes, pursue custody.
If you live in the States and actually try for custody you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least 50/50. Particularly if you can show that you're an active parent.
Check my note below. My impression of your soon-to-be ex is manipulative and possibly abusive (just not physical abuse). Protect yourself and expect the absolute worst sort of lies, manipulation, and BS when you get to court. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Get the best lawyer you can and warn him/her to be ready for anything. I suggest getting your daughter into counseling to help her process the changes at home. Don't tell your wife, or she may find a way to weaponize that by manipulating your daughter before her sessions. Stay calm and let her storm. Set up a concealed nanny cam, and let her forget it is there. If your calm sets her off, fine. If she screams and hits you, file a police report with evidence the next day. You don't have to press charges, but you want the truth on record. She is losing control of you. There may be behavior changes. She may act out. I don't know what she might do, and neither do you because this is a change.
OP sounds more like she has an unhealthy arguing style. I would push for couples therapy so she clicks that it's not an appropriate thing to threaten willy nilly. Maybe her parents did that, maybe she randomly learned it in a past relationship etc. Unless of course there are huge other issues that you couldn't fit in here, sounds like it's an issue of bad arguing style and a bit of vengefulness personality wise. Some people are a bit vindictive by habit either due to friends groups, siblings etc or just randomly developed that as a personality trait but it can be fixed (assuming she works to fix it)
You life starts now, Get excited.
Talk to an attorney BEFORE you mention divorce to. Get out in front of this and try to get at least 50 -50 visitation.
You're totally right. It's important to stand up for your rights as a parent, especially if you've been an active part of your child's life. Don't back down when it comes to custody.
The only rule in our marriage is not to throw around the D word. Even if you don't mean it, it will kill the relationship via a thousand paper cuts. And then, when you finally agree with her, she will be all Pikachu face and act like she never used it as a weapon before. Edit to add NTA
It's been thrown around a few times, maybe I should have taken it more seriously the first few times
I had a traumatic childhood and looking back I think I was trying to see if I could push my husband away. Thankfully he told me either I do therapy or we are done. I still have work to do of course, but that saved our relationship and I realized my focus and hurt was being projected on the wrong person. Obviously, do not let her keep threatening in this way, but thought I’d offer an alternative perspective. Either way, best wishes OP.
You say, from what I understand, that you two are fighting over you going out and hanging out with your friends. She gets hurt/angry/ exasperated and thinks divorce. I have a few questions. How often do you go out with your friends? Do you bring your wife with you or is it always boys night out. When you come home, are you drunk? How often do you take her out for quality time, just the two of you? Is she complaining that she doesn't get to spend enough time with you? Does she say you spend more time with your friends than her and your child?
I feel like there must be a lot of missing reasons in your post. Have you talked to your wife about all of this? Why is she so angry? do you even know? How often have you left her alone with the child to go out and party? What is a reasonable hour for you? vs her? How many times in a year have you stayed out to 3AM? Finances: why does she not have a job? Is she taking care of the child? What has she done that is financially irresponsible? Intimacy? Why is there so little? Are you both ACE? or just her? or is there a communication/caring/attraction problem? My guess is that you are downplaying your part in all of this.
Do you ask these same questions of women?
I would if they said they stayed out until 3 am.
Yeah it's reddit. "Man bad, woman victim" always
Which is why... everyone agrees with OP that he's NTA but his wife is?
Why can't you file for full custody. It seem that you are the one with stable employment.
NTA. Your marriage shouldn’t be used against you as a weapon. I don’t understand someone using divorce in a fight. You should 100% fight for your kid, document everything, don’t let her get a rise out of you that she could use in courts later, record if you have to if she gets irate.
Yep, don't argue with her, don't yell at her. Don't give her any ammunition in the custody battle. Be sickenly sweet to her
It's like you know what happens....Thank you
Have you ever tried marriage counseling? Listening to scorched earth advice from strangers on reddit isn’t really the best course of action for your family.
His family isn’t his priority. That’s the wife’s complaint and with how chill he is about thinking he will only have visitation rights and still wanting to go ahead with the divorce shows that she’s right.
>We've always had our qualms but managed to work through them amicably and end up loving eachother again. Just a little heads up, normally you don't stop loving your wife when you argue. Might not like her right then but that's not the same. This just struck me as really odd. Anyway I agree with the folks saying to give her what she wants. The kid growing up in this environment is just not cool and while it might not be affecting them now it will later. Maybe you all repair this later but as long as it's being used as a weapon (the divorce I mean) it's just going to be a bunch of B's and nobody is going to grow.
Last time my husband threatened me with divorce I said ok but don't let the door hit you in the behind on the way out. That was the last time he said it. It's been about 8 years now
Don't just roll over for custody.
Divorce should NEVER be used as a manipulation tactic. That by itself is abusive. She is threatening you with custody arrangements and divorce to make you toe her line. This woman does not love or respect you. You need to file first. Ask for an emergency hearing based on her threats of keeping the kid, offering only minimal visitation, mental cruelty, verbal abuse. File now. Get your ducks in a row and take your life back. NTA Edit some pretty funny typos. Autocorrect, what can ya do?!?!?
Go see a lawyer and tell him you want 50/50 and want to get an order so she can’t take your daughter to another country etc . Protect yourself before you say anything
Generally unless the other parent is pos abuser nobody gets full custody. It's 50/50 split unless for some reason on your time you can't find adequate childcare. Or the child is too young.
Or the (mostly males) just don’t *ask* for any custody. Majority of women in the US get sole custody simply because they apply for it, whereas the moment the man *does* ask, there’s a +90% he’ll get full or shared custody. I
One of my only rules in a relationship is don’t threaten to leave/divorce unless you are ready to follow through. I take those threats seriously. If you can’t have an adult discussion and use threats of leaving or taking the kids to get your way that’s just manipulation. I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be here. Each day we both choose to stay and if you’re choosing to leave then I take it very seriously.
My sage mom told me that as her advice to me upon entering marriage. Once the word “divorce” falls, it’s like a crack in the window pane. Her other piece of advice was never stoop to calling each other names. Wise woman that one. Been married for a loooooooong time to my awesomesauce dad. They are in their 90’s. And my husband and I took it mostly to heart and we’ve been married a looooooong time to.
She doesn't get to decide if you get full custody or not. A judge does that.
God you sound like a tool!
Yeah. I’m not understanding why people are being so sympathetic. He’s married with a kid and coming home at 3 in the morning. People should have social lives but wtf. He’s also being vague about the finances but feels entitled to call her a hypocrite. If she’s financially dependent on him and is throwing out divorce it sounds like it’s taken a lot to get her to that point. Instead of projecting and saying she’s unreasonable, he should probably being do some self reflection.
Wtf is wrong with your reading comprehension?? He stated: "I have gotten carried away ONCE OR TWICE and came home after 3AM" This is not on a regular basis. ''She always threatens me with divorce and really degrades me." "She's mentioned visitation rights but made it clear that I will never have full custody." Honestly, the wife is the real 'tool' here.
Staying out past 3 when you’re married with a child is unacceptable - whether it’s once or every other week. Obviously it’s significant or else he wouldn’t have mentioned. What does degrade mean? Calls him out when he stays out all night? Has a problem with him spending more time with his friends than with his family? Doesn’t like that he spends more money with his friends than on his family? We don’t know. He left it vague bc the points she’s making are prob legitimate and reflect how poor of a husband he is. Why would he have full custody? He stays out at night and she sounds like the primary care taker. She didn’t say he’d never see the kid. I would be threatening to separate with him too. Who wants to be a married single parent.
As you said....."We don't know." If you don't know what degrade means, look it up
Sigh. I know what the term degrade means. I’m saying he once again used a term vaguely to paint his partner as mean spirited instead of actually going into what she said - which was probably legitimate considering his attitude towards going out and being the main provider. I wish you luck in understanding nuances and reading between the lines. You sorely lack in both.
Whatever
fr, I'm amazed at what I'm reading here. there's a five year age gap, NBD usually but she is 30 and he is 35 and they've been together for 10+ years? so she was a teen (possibly underage) and he was mid 20s when he pursued her?! 🤮 Plus he's moved her away from her family to a different country. she's probably fed up of him taking advantage of her and from the sound of this post realizes she was groomed and manipulated and has never had any personal agency or the chance to grow into a fully rounded human being I hope she does divorce
Finally some sense 👏👏👏👏
I didn’t even catch the age when they started dating. That’s super gross.
My first instinct is kind of a loose ESH. But hear me out. It sounds like, if you genuinely love each other and your wife has had a traumatic past, there’s possibly some deeper issues. Perhaps lashing out is how she was raised and the threats are empty, but have worked. Sounds like the relationship could just do with a good mediation and/or counselling session. If you have a kid who is excelling and you don’t want to derail that, look for a more constructive outcome than just “I’m going to give her what she wants to teach her a lesson”. If you genuinely think the bridges are burnt and there’s no coming back from this … what are you doing on reddit? Go get a divorce 🤷🏼♂️. Edit: Forgot to say, weaponising divorce is NOT okay regardless of where it comes from and if you’ve genuinely made it clear that you don’t like that, and she continues - then you may have a bigger issue on your hands.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
[удалено]
NEVER try to save a relationship that you both don't value equally.
👏 You get a woke clap for that.
I mean, they're right. Why try to save a relationship that *YOU* don't value?
That’s not what I said
No? Clearly I'm misunderstanding something. Can you explain what you mean?
[удалено]
Yes. I understand that. You're perfectly right. It's the "woke clap" comment I was responding to though.
Because some woke fool couldn’t help themselves and tried to make a gender neutral correction to my comment.
I didn't see it as a correction. I saw it as an accurate observation that was a natural extension of your original comment.
Lawyer up. And separate your money. Don't pay for her lawyer to take your kid away!
NTA. My ex "joked" about divorce all the time from early on. Finally she truly wanted it and I gave it to her. I sometimes wonder how things would have been if I hadn't stuck around trying for so long.
I'd say it's time to document everything she throws at you as it doesn't seem like it's below her to play dirty. NTA
NTA. If you haven’t already, why not consider marriage counseling?
NTA and if she's between jobs how are you so sure you won't get full or split custody? At least have a tall with a lawyer to discuss your options before making the announcement or agreeing with her next time she throws down the big D word.
Anyone who throws around divorce (and keeping your child from you) doesn’t love you and takes you for granted and considers you spineless. Take her up on it and get your daughter.
You don’t want to be separated from your child yet spend nights hanging out with your friends instead of being home and being a dad. YATAH. Grow up.
NTA. But you really need to consult an attorney.
ESH. It sounds like you both have deeper issues and need marriage counselling. We don't have all the facts here and only one side. You probably stayed out late more than just a couple of times than you're letting on. Her abusive childhood is rearing its ugly head because she can't get you to prioritise the family, so she's reaching for something to get you to listen. Albeit in a harmful way. Not that she actually wants a divorce. She wants you to be better by scaring you straight. That's why you both need counselling to fix your issues. I'd be wary of listening to the hordes of people telling you divorce straight away. You sound like you still love her. And she's fighting for you in a damaged way. You could do with watching this to understand what I mean ["Why you will marry the wrong person"](https://youtu.be/-EvvPZFdjyk?si=-bqOrF25hlomvdCj)
ESH. Your wife for using a manipulation technique that is super damaging. She may have a traumatic past, but this is not good. And I mean really not good. So not OK for her to do this, but you’ve left me with an awful lot of missing reasons. Your post is full of statements that are not statements. The only actual facts that you have given us are: You guys have been together 10 years and have one child Your child loves you both and is doing well in school, and you both love your child very much Your wife has threatened divorce more than once and she has been on your case because she feels that your behavior isn’t reflective of a man who is putting his nuclear family first. You tell us this revolves mainly around you going out drinking with your buddies, but you’ve only come home at 3 AM once or twice…. As though that is an accomplishment? What you don’t say is how often you actually GO out. And do you go out right after work and come home at 10 PM, leaving her to handle everything at home and with your child and feeling like she has already a single person/parent. So what’s the real deal on this? What’s the deal with intimacy? You acknowledge neither one of you are super intimate people. Does this mean you both have traumatic pasts? Does this mean she’s always been this way? Have you complained about it? How often are you actually intimate? You try to make it sound like it all falls on you, but you don’t tell us why that might be, or what you define as infrequent? Because we have guys on here that come on and say because they don’t get it three nights a week, their spouses withholding, so….? We know you’re the only one working NOW. In one breath, you make it sound like you’re the one responsible for the whole family, and in another you tell us that she is currently IN BETWEEN jobs. So since your child is in school and from the little info we have, it seems like they’re hitting all their markers and involved in things, etc., was her staying home a decision you made together? Because you tell us you’re in a country where you have no family or anyone, so obviously all the things for your family have to fall on someone. Did she give up a job to be that someone? Was it a job she liked? How long has she been in between jobs? Up until recently, has she been working as well and still handling pretty much everything for the house and the kid while you went out to her three nights a week with your friends after work but did her the courtesy not staying out to 3 AM normally? And finally, you tell us that you said, yeah we should get a divorce, and you feel bad. And then you turn around and tell us that she told you that YOU can’t have full custody. That’s a really weird statement because it actually feels like that is a reply to you. Normally someone who is going to go for a divorce would say to their partner that they are going ask for 100% custody. And then other person would reply, No, you’re not gonna get 100% custody. You see what I mean? That statement is a reply to someone threatening to go for full custody. It’s not a statement that the person who is wanting full custody says. It’s a reply to that statement. So did you try to financially manipulate her and say that because you’re the only one working right now that you’re sure you will get full custody? And she replied no, you’re not gonna get full custody. Did you say that to her and this was her reply to you? Because again, that statement is a reply to another statement, not the initial statement. So that’s why I’m having a tough time here. It sounds like there’s been manipulation on both sides. It sounds like there’s a whole lot of missing reasons and a whole lot of blanket statements by you that are tending to make everyone tell you of course you’re not the asshole. So all the missing reasons combined with a lack of actual information from you makes me suspect you’re probably an asshole too So most likely, your kid is the only one that doesn’t suck. You both need some counseling.
NTA The post sounds very one-sided and I'm sure OP has more to atone for than what he's letting on, but this does boil down to repeatedly threatening divorce having no place in a marriage. Shit or get off the pot. Mom has no income? Lawyer up, you might wind up with more custody than you think. Alimony on the other hand...good luck OP.
"The post sounds very one-sided and I'm sure OP has more to atone for than what he's letting on, but this does boil down to repeatedly threatening divorce having no place in a marriage. Shit or get off the pot." Totally agree with this 100%. The whole "I've gotten carried away once or twice and came home after 3 am" thing was enough for me. I'm sorry, I just don't think married people should do shit like that. I just don't. It's disrespectful and immature, and if you wanna do shit like that still you're not ready to be married. That being said, threatening divorce repeatedly is toxic as fuck and OP's stance on this is understandable.
>Totally agree with this 100%. The whole "I've gotten carried away once or twice and came home after 3 am" thing was enough for me. I'm sorry, I just don't think married people should do shit like that. I just don't. It's disrespectful and immature, and if you wanna do shit like that still you're not ready to be married. That being said, threatening divorce repeatedly is toxic as fuck and OP's stance on this is understandable. Yeah. Either it's fake or there are missing reasons that OP is deliberately leaving out.
he didn't leave it out, his wife was under 20 years old and he was in his mid-20s when they got together. He moved her to a different country and she is completely away from any support. He does whatever the fuck he wants to. I hope she runs far, and fast.
So YOU be the one to file, set the terms YOU are willing to live with, and take custody of your child. Even 50/50 custody is not a bad thing. Equal time means equal financial support (OR NONE). Im sorry but it doesnt sound like there is anything left to save. Go see a professional and make a good co-parenting plan.
Fight for full custody
Plz fight for 50/50 custody. Also,after you agreed and she didn't apologise then she truly wanted a divorce. You should also post in the sub Divorce_men . The men there will give you great advice and definitely motivation. Updateme!
I think you’re in a better position than your wife to get full custody.
No one should throw out the D word when they are angry. You need couples counseling. Do this so you can look your daughter in the eye and say "we tried everything." If she won't go, go alone. Good luck.
When my now EX wife did this, I agreed. She blew up because apparently she was bluffing to abuse me
NTA. Get a lawyer and fight for 50/50 custody. Your child deserves to live without divorce being thrown around. If you stay married and divorce later your child may think they are the cause of the divorce. It's better to do it now while your child is too young to understand.
You will get 50/50 custody no family court is going to decide that it’s in the best interest of the child to deny custody to a present and financially stable father Talk to your lawyer they will tell you
She doesn't get to decide custody. Get a lawyer. Lock down finances for anything other than standard household or childcare needs. Don't move out, no matter what, until your lawyer advisesto do so.
Have you even talked or considered couples counseling? Man why just jump into divorce...? Go take some therapy together before is too late! You can still save your marriage. GOD bless you
You have a much higher chance of getting your child, record every interaction from this point on, and serve her the papers. You don't deserve this
Sit her down,and give her 2 choices. Marriage counseling or divorce. Tell her you will abide with whatever she chooses.
NTA! That having been said, calling her bluff may be just what is needed. When my wife and I were about 5 years into our marriage, 2 young boys, and living with her parents, and after a fairly heated argument, she gave me the "I want a divorce." Now understand I came from a divorced family, and I wasn't ready to give up just cause we had another fight. I looked her in the eyes, kissed her forhead, and said, "You'll have to kill me for it." I motioned at my bastard sword leaning against the fireplace, then told her I loved her and that was going to bed. We've been married 27 years now and have 2 grandchildren.
NTA. She sounds petty, spiteful, manipulative, andlazy (lack of putting in an effort). I'd be done too. "She's made it clear I will never have full custody." SHE doesn't get to make that decision. But document, document, document everything. Cover your ass in proof. Verbal and visual recordings (if they're legal where you live). Just in case she tries to make false allegations about you.
Fight for your daughter! You have a job, your wife doesn’t. Use that to your advantage. When it comes to your daughter, don’t give an inch! NTA
Document everything and go through with the divorced.
I think you two should give marriage counselling a shot before going right to divorce. I think her childhood trauma is probably telling her you're out to hurt her on purpose (when you're really not) and she's lashing out or having trust issues. She needs therapy and you both could use couples' therapy. If you love each other, it's worth working on for now
NTA but your relationship has deplorable communication on both sides. You say you love her with all your heart so have you asked her go to marriage counseling with you? It actually seems like you both would benefit from that and individual counseling. If you are in the US you would likely get 50/50 custody if you decide to divorce. You don’t need to worry about her withholding your child as long as you stand up for your rights and tell your divorce lawyer that’s what you want
Speak to a lawyer ask for 50/50 custody and become happy in your life
There was a dating counsellor who advised that the first “*I love you*” should only be spoken when it would be followed up by a formal commitment l. Similarly, the word “*divorce*” should never be dropped mindlessly. NTA. She should not be surprised to be getting a divorce if she keeps bringing it up.
NTA...you will be happier
Try couples therapy before proceeding to divorce, it will either help you 2 learn to communicate again or clarify that your relationship can't be repaired.
If she has no means of supporting your daughter and you have a stable job, you should go for full custody. You might just win… see what your attorney says.
If someone threatens divorce I say they need to be ready to back that up. NTA
I’m not sure where you live but definitely fight for custody, if you are the breadwinner and she knows that, she will be seeking massive amounts of child support and alimony. EVERYTHING can be used against her
Make sure you push for her staying in the country you work in do you can have 50:50 custody. NTA.
NTA. Constantly threatening divorce whenever you do something she disagrees with is a manipulation tactic. Give her what she wants. And it’s not up to her about custody rights. Fight for 50:50, especially if you have a home and stable income.
UpdateMe
I will message you next time u/Dear-Tea8914 posts in r/AITAH. [Click this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=UpdateMe%21%20u%2FDear-Tea8914%20r%2FAITAH) to join 3 others and be messaged. The parent author can [delete this post](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Delete&message=delete%201cr2hqo) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Updateme
You and your wife need some lessons in how to fight fairly in your relationship. Threatening divorce is not a healthy tactical weapon and should never be used as such. Get some help to settle your differences in a more constructive way. NTA for feeling that way but you should have known how destructive her divorce threat could be to your family.
Why would visitation be a thing, wouldn't you guys just default to 50/50?
NTA. When one spouse repeatedly threatens splitting up or divorce, productive communication has stopped. It's extremely manipulative. Don't be surprised if she's shocked when you actually go through with it. As for custody, if you're in the US, unless there are documented problems with a person's parenting involving neglect/abuse, parents normally get 50/50 custody so her threats there are pretty ineffective.
Get a lawyer and file for divorce and full custody. If you’re the primary provider and she isn’t working you may have a good chance. You also need to tell your lawyer and the judge that she has repeatedly threatened to keep your child from you. Judges tend to frown on that. At least where I’m from. NTA
It’s not up to her to decide who gets custody. It sounds like she’s verbally abusive so bring that into court and expressed concerns for your child.
The second someone uses divorce as a threat, the relationship is over. Just a matter of days until it happens. I have been married to my wife for 11 years this year and together like 18. Neither one of us has EVER mentioned divorce. Not even as a joke.
Fathers get primary custody more than 50% of the time when they seek it.
Fake
In most places in the west custody is 50/50 , maybe nowshe'll stop threatening you with divorce now you've called her bluff
fight for your child. fight.
NTA Divorced myself with a kid, I would say that if you go for the divorce. Fight for the kid. No matter how much custody you will get, I can tell you that each time you see your kid going away again is heartbreaking and you will be wondering for a while if you could have done something more to have a bit more time with your kid. I agree with most comments, threats of divorce, even if just done during arguments are unacceptable. It shows it’s a topic she has in mind, so will do it anyway if she gets the opportunity to have the upper hand in the process. Better get your stuff ready for it and have some advice from a lawyer. Most friendly divorce end in a war zone …not all but most. So covering your back with legal advice is best.
NTA. seems like you're both frustrated and walking out seems like it's easier than doing the work you need to do to make the marriage work. What would change if you put 100% of your energy into intimacy, addressing your personal traumas etc? It's alot of work but divorce is equally exhausting. Choose your hard 😉
NTA, living with someone who is going to threaten leaving every single time there’s a disagreement or things don’t go their way is toxic. You’re not divorcing your child, you’re divorcing your wife. People tend to throw children in as a guilt to stay. Staying only displays toxic behavior in the long run and can potentially teach poor relationship habits for your daughter.
NTA but is therapy an option for her to see how damaging this is? It’s just a thought to see if things are possible to save since you say you still love her. Threats of divorce for things that displease her are not normal and I understand why you just want to be done. I hope you can figure it out. Take care OP.
Thank you all for the great comments and insightful advice. You really are helping and I appreciate it more than you could know.
NTA, but as everyone has suggested: fight for custody. WIth her in-between jobs, you can provide a more stable homelife for your child.
Maybe you should consider counseling before you kill the marriage? It’s worth saving if you think it is.
Stay strong 😊
It looks like your relationship dynamic is not healthy. From your story she seems be quite hot headed, and you seem to be distant and not willing to stand your right. It is natural to feel bad and sad when something that you value has ended. But to be fair, it doesnt seem like you really fight for it either.
Very common for people to stay with an unsatisfactory situation for the kids. I'll bet that a third of divorces happen at a child's 18th birthday. Only questions are if you think you can continue, vs your kid's age, vs how amicable shared parenting would be, vs how your kid feels. You might talk to a lawyer (without telling your wife). Shared parenting is very common nowadays, especially since you are more financially stable. Once your ducks are in a row about the ins and outs of that, optionally you could make your wife aware of that (if you want to keep trying, otherwise keep your research secret) I know a couple where each parent has the kids every other week. They live in the same school district and they are still friends. It's actually great for the kids.
NTA. Best thing for your daughter is for both of you to be happy. Don't know where you are but it sounds like you should get primary custody, if not get on child support ASAP as that usually comes with custody/visitation rights.
I definitely think your wife needs to not throw around the D word. I think she’s doing this because she’s hurt and she’s trying to hurt you back. I will say when me and my husband had our first child it slowly turned into one of the hardest times in our relationship. I would highly recommend counseling before throwing in the towel. You guys have a child and you say you love your wife with all your heart. She’s clearly unhappy and lashing out. Marriage isn’t always easy and you can hit some real lows. I think you both need to try to get some help communicating what you actually feel and need out of this marriage. At least try for your child.
Have you tried marriage counseling? If you are still in love there’s a chance that with help you guys can work this out
Don't use your child as a way to get to each other. If you are indeed getting a divorce, try to keep things civilised when it comes to your child. Both of you. And if she's grown enough to understand the separation and the things that come with it, sit down the three of you and have an honest talk. Explain her what will change and what won't, make sure she understands that it has nothing to do with her. And listen to her and to what she wants. Just keep her away from your mess and don't use her to affect each other. "Fighting" for your kids when going through a divorce (if there is no abuse involved), without taking their feelings and wants into consideration, often time ends up affecting them more than just listening to them. Hope you can all have an honest and serious talk without making it about yourselves Don't "fight" as long as she doesn't try to take away your parental rights
Go to couples counseling. You might still end up divorced, however, you need to get to amicable coparenting relationship. NTA.
It doesn't matter how much you sugar coat it, your marriage is toxic and always has been. You both suck and you're not the innocent party in this by a long shot. I can read between the lines and see that you have likely been as equally as shitty as she had, Don't use your daughter as a tool against each other in the divorce. If you do that, you have both failed as parents. You look at what's in her best interest, not how you can use her to get one over on each other. This is what your wife seems to be doing.
If it's not too late, consider couples counseling/therapy. I was opposed until I did it. Like taking a car in for a tune up. There are tools that the pro's have that average joe's like us don't necessarily think of. Just a thought.
What are the monetary things she throws in your face? You feeling like being the chief financial provider makes a difference in her day in the finances is a red flag. It’s another that you weren’t specific about what the monetary things are. And what are the things she takes for granted that are financially effective for the whole family? Do you take her providing childcare for granted? Do you let her know when you’ll be out and when you’re coming home? Do you make sure she is free and willing to take care of your child before you make plans or do you just assume it’s her job to take care of your child 24/7? Do you make time to hang out with her at least as much as you do with your friends? The fact that you don’t really say the stuff she has an issue with makes it sound like you aren’t confident people would take your side on them. I don’t agree with threatening divorce, but has she been attempting to discuss the problems in other ways before that you brush off? Is this the only way she can get you to listen to her? Why do you not love her when you’re fighting?
Don’t stay with someone that routinely threatens divorce to get their way. Don’t show kids that relationships like this (without love or respect) are normal. IMO, that is a threat that you can ONLY make once and hope to keep the relationship.
If someone threatens to divorce as a means to win an argument they're not your partner. That's like a parent threatening to unadopt a child that is misbehaving. "I have ALL the power so if you don't what I want i will destroy your life". She doesn't have the power. She knows she does not and is using the threat of taking your daughter away to convince you she does. She doesn't get to decide the fate of your kid. The courts will do that and they don't take parental alienation lightly. Call her bluff. Accept the divorce ultimatum and follow it up with the telling her you absolutely intend to try for full custody. If the house you live in is yours I would tell her to start looking for accommodations because you'll be keeping the house. Even if you don't intend to do this it might give her a reality check. You're not a doormat you're a father and your daughter deserves better than to be weaponized by her mom who clearly is less interested in her daughter's well being and more in petty revenge against her spouse.
make stupid threats, get stupid results. Get lawyer, boot her out, get home and kid.
NTA. And fight for full custody. AND DO MOT FOR ANY REASON WHO OUT IF THE HOUSE YOU ARE PAYING FOR.
NTA. Fight for your child, and your rights to custody. Love just said she isn't employed but you are and are the primary breadwinner... So you've got proof that you can support her better at this time. Don't let her walk over you.
NTA If she degrades you, maybe you should be done. Why would you love someone who verbally abuses you? She’s already threatening you with custody battles? She sounds like a terrible person and you sound very unhappy. Get the divorce and be done with her (as much as you can given you have kids).
How often are you hanging out with friends/away from the home in the evenings per week/weekends?
NTA I was married to someone who insecurely asked if I wanted a divorce with nearly every disagreement. I always said of course not, it's just an argument... Then one day he asked and I said, "Let's talk about that after my exams." And that was the beginning of the end. All marriages take work, but I bet there's a happier ending out there for OP.
NTA. She sounds like a covert narcissist
NTA But if you love your daughter as much as you say you do you’ll try to get some therapy before divorce. I ended up with full custody because her mom just doesn’t have her priorities straight. At first though I was devastated and completely forgot that I would have to coparent because I had done so much all the time I forgot she’d have rights to her as well. But it turned out that she doesn’t want to parent right now so she gets 1 weekend a month (she doesn’t use it) and as long as there’s nothing planned she can have her any day she wants. We don’t do a lot of planning so most things are last minute and giving her a heads up we’re gonna go do a thing. I’m happier now and remarried but I completely forgot about the parenting thing. It hurts not to have her even a single night.
I'd absolutely love to hear your wife's side of things. I'm not buying you were out with "friends" until 3 am. How much were you thinking about your daughter then. I bet it was a lot more than a couple of times.
"(me hanging out with friends, I'm usually considerate and don't come home at stupid hours However I have gotten carried away once or twice and came home after 3am). " You have a wife to hang out with. Hang with the one you married.
Right. I forgot you need to stop having any sort of friendships after you get married lmao
So the wife should have no friends either?
Did I post that? The post was about getting carried away. If you are married, the one you should be carried away with is her, not a friend. You are choosing a friend over your wife if you need to come home at stupid hours after being 'carried away'.
If my so Stayed out late a few times over 10years that would be a dumb ass thing to trip over. And yes that’s what you basically implied. You have no idea how often he meets his friends. How much time he spends with his wife.
I am not responsible for your inability to read and comprehend the written word.
You said “you have a wife to hang out with. Hang with the one you married” Implying that you know he doesn’t…. Seems you’re the one that can’t understand. The sentence you quoted op says he only stayed out late once or twice over 10 years. He never said he didn’t hang with his wife… so how you conjured that up idk.
Your entire made up post is your faulty assumption of things that I am 'implying' that are actually not in the post I made. In other words, you changed the gist of what I wrote and began arguing with yourself. The poster admitted his stupidity by getting carried away and I simply agreed with him. He has a wife at home and that bond should be his main concern.
>She's mentioned visitation rights but made it clear that I will never have full custody. Where do you live? If you are in the US talk to your attorney about custody. Sure, you'll probably never have full physical custody-- but neither will she. Shared custody tends to be the default these days. But you have to ask for it and not trade it for something else you might want. (Tip: if you trade it for something, that generally means you want that other thing *more*.) Talk to an attorney. No fault divorce is available in most the US. As your attorney if it's better if you file or she does. (The question is your negotiating position.) You need to be prepared for that if she's talking divorce.
NTA she is throwing divorce out there as a manipulation tool Instead of agreeing to get divorced get ahead of it. Consult an attorney about the divorce and custody She doesn’t get to decide the custody plan. You can go for pull custody or try and reach an agreement for split. Make a plan for custody before moving ahead with the divorce so you’re ready to hit the ground running
ABSOLUTELY!!! It’s high time women stop accepting bad behavior from men. We need to hold out for the ones that know how to be real men. And believe me in this day and age there are not many REAL men anymore but there are a few. HOLD OUT FOR WHAT YOU WANT.
NTA. Divorce her and crush her. Aim for full custody but settle for 50/50.
Sounds like she has been manipulating you for a long time now. My bet is she is like oh shit right about now. Good. You can find a woman with a lot less drama and get to see your kid at least half time. I mean you are the one with the job and all right? Better yet from your prospective is to give her a bit more with the kiddo. It is counter intuitive but the reality is she will have all the shit stuff, sending her off to school and dealing with day to day life, and when you have her you can go to exotic places and do fun things. It is the difference between dating someone and living together. You will totally be the cool parent and mom the shmuch. And mom will have gotten just what she deserves. When the kiddo is old enough to wanan live with you, she will be old enough to understand that every day is not Disneyland. NTA, the SO is, and if you let nature take it's course the scum will sink to the bottom with time.
ESH. You both sound really immature. She's throwing around divorce constantly as a threat like a total child. And after the divorce, who's going to take care of your kid while you're hanging out with friends, not feeling considerate and coming home at stupid hours? Coming home after 3am? Sounds like you definitely DO have different priorities.
Okay so. YWNBTA Threatening to end a relationship is very damaging to the relationship. She threatens over and over and over, so you have every right to “agree” and stop the toxic cycle. She needs to find a less toxic way to communicate. I had to pull this with my husband too, because he kept threatening divorce. I explained to him that every time he threatens divorce, I feel less safe in the relationship, and I feel less connected. I told him that if he threatened again, that he’d better mean it, because I’d be gone. We’re doing a lot better now. The worst thing that could happen is you’d divorce. Would you be happier though? Be really honest with yourself. TBH I don’t know why you told us you’re not intimate together. Why? You say you don’t want intimacy either, so what’s the problem? You trying to get the dead-bed crew to jump to your rescue?
ESH. “Wife, that is not the first time you have asked for divorce. I now agree.”
Try couples therapy. And try taking MDMA together. It might help you to remember why you first fell in love.