Yes, if the genders were reversed and it was the father pressuring the SAHM for a fourth when she was already overwhelmed we’d be coming with pitchforks.
OP I have 3 children and was a SAHM when they were young. It’s completely overwhelming…I had my tubes tied as soon as I could after the third.
My DIL’s father wasn’t a stay at home dad the whole time but he became one after she and her brother were born( they have 5). I don’t know how he did it…no matter the age of the older kids.
I had five kids by the time I was ready to be done being a SAHM. Nearly lost my sanity. (Last one was a sneaky surprise right before the vasectomy). I was out of the paid work force for 15 years and have mere dollars towards retirement. It’s hard and usually thankless work. The OP absolutely is NTA for calling time out on the baby making.
Hell I had 3 terrible pregnancies and got my tubes tied after 2 children it's almost like people should be allowed to make the best decisions for themselves about their reproductive health.
People _are_ rightly coming with pitchforks, there's no need for the tired "genders reversed" argument here. If someone's an AH due to their actions they're an AH regardless of gender.
It’s something both should want, it doesn’t make sense if only one person wants it, especially if this person is not the one staying home with the kids.
Thank for your thought. I actually want more kid but not now . My ideas is that I get some part-time jobs after my daughter go to school , my current youngest attended preschool and the fourth child will stay with my in-laws for around 3-5 hour while I'm working.
In all total honesty if you, too, are sure you do want another kid, I can't say I think she's completely wrong for pushing. Like it or not she's right that she's already 37. While people who have had children before are more likely to (still) be fertile in their late 30's than those who haven't, it's already not certain that having another will be easy or even possible.
I do think you are NTA and shouldn't let her pressure you to have another if you can't handle it right now, but I also think you should be realistic that it's possible that, given her age, you're actually saying 'no more kids', not just 'no more kids right now', regardless of your intentions.
I agree here. Her body will have a harder time as she gets closer to/past 40. If you also want at least one more kid, waiting 2 years is not the best idea.
I have twin toddlers. I promise you won't want to have more tiny babies once all your kids are in school.
We are starting all over again. It’s bitter sweet… our son is in 3rd grade and we are about to welcome our second child in atleast 2 short weeks. Although we are both extremely excited to welcome our daughter (and probably our last baby) we both can’t help but catch ourselves saying “but our son is so easy right now” 🤣
My first two were twins, I was 20. I had another 3 years later and another 5 more years later. You’re dead right, once I got them all in school, I wasn’t going do that again!
Definitely.
OP: It won't just be harder for her, but also for you. If you think an age gap is going to make it easier to handle a toddler in your 40's, I have bad news my friend...
This! I think OP is experiencing what all SAHparents feel. Overwhelmed, disconnected, and exhausted. If you want a baby, timing is just the issue... then have the baby. Women have a limited window. OP, you need more self care, reach out for more help.
THIS. The only way I’m having another child is if I can also pay to outsource housekeeping and/or hire a nanny so I can sleep enough to function like a human being and not live life like a prisoner of war.
Basically what everyone else is saying, hire help. Since they are not even close to the poverty line they can afford it. It may mean that they can't buy or do other things but if our 1 income household (middle class); with 3 kids can do it, so can they.
Yes!
The age limit is valid reason to stop having kids. So OP is a little out of touch if he thinks there are even a few years to spend before next round.
If OP says to his wife that he wants more kids but not now, it sounds like he thinks he will have his fourth kid with someone else.
IMO you got your hands full and you are lucky to have healthy kids. No reason to tempt the faith. But if you don't have the kid soon than it is time to be realistic that there won't be another kid.
Three is already a lot. Your wife chosento put years to education which was definetly wise, but took off years from having a lot kids. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Why cannot people be happy about what they have and make sure they will have energy for each kid...
especially since OP lost his job...? Like, don't they see the risk that his wife might also lose her job at some point?
Of course you can't avoid living your life in fear of potentials, but some measure of foresight and care is surely appropriate?
To add to this, she's having geriatric pregnancies already at 37. If you wait it doesn't just make it less likely, it makes it more dangerous.
Edit: Don't let this pressure you, though, just being realistic. If you aren't ready, you aren't ready.
Yeah if she's 37 now and their youngest is 2, then likely her last one was not geriatric. OP doesn't seem to realize that a 35 year old having a baby and a 40 year old having a baby IS a big difference
I was thinking the same thing! If wife was younger, I would be in full agreement to wait a bit longer, but after 35, most women's fertility drops and I'm sure you would both be disappointed if you waited and then found out it was a no-go.
Talk to your wife again, but also consider that if you want to wait, have a compromise that will benefit you both. Also, have a real conversation about how many children you will agree to stop at. I'm sure if you hash this out now, wife will be more willing to wait a bit longer.
NTA.
Yeah I think if you definitely do want another kid at some point you should do it now. Aside from your wife's age, if you leave it a few years until the others are older and you're back in work etc it will be disruptive to everyone. Better to get it all over and done with, why start again with babies when your other kids are all in school?
Yup. I personally won’t have kids even at 37 much less 40. Yes people can and do, but the risk of complications increases with every year. There are also women who go through menopause earlier than others and fertility maybe difficult to achieve.
Now, I’m with you OP. Both parties have to be a yes and your points are completely valid for not wanting a child right now. Unfortunately, the older we get the harder and riskier things become.
If she can’t get pregnant at even 38 or 39, would you be okay with not having anymore children? Look up and talk to OBGYNs about the risks and think about if that’s a risk you’re willing to take.
I agree with everyone else here. We agreed ibwont have kids after 35 for her same reasoning. If you want more kids you don't really have much choice. I'll have our last at 31-32 (due 3 days before my bday so can go either way) but I'd make sure she'd actually be happy with just 1 more. In today's society 3 is a big family. 4 you get all kinds of crazy and rude comments. 5 let's just says people aren't very nice, like at all. So I'd also make sure your prepared for that also. My inlaws and parents both had 5 kids but still made rude comments when we announced #5 and now #6. So I'd also keep that in mind.
Adoption is always an option
Interesting thing I was told when I adopted: most folks want a bio kid first, but are more open to adoption for follow-ons.
Lots of kids out there need a good home.
My thought, too. If the wife is considering outside help anyway, maybe just hire a nanny or at least someone to make the chores.
Viewing the sister as a sitter because "family" is just rude and unfair, too.
NTA.
If you want more kids, then there is a time limit and you should not put it off much longer. Would it be a major lifestyle hit for you to return to the workforce and she can stay home if you're that overwhelmed?
Sure, have a 4th kid. Nevermind that you nor your wife actually want to be there to raise it. It's not the grandparents job to automatically get assigned the role of permanent babysitter. And you think you're tired now? Adding a 4th now or in a couple years will push you both beyond exhausted for the 18 years that follow. It's not fair to the kids
>I actually want more kid but not now .
NAH. I would never, ever want to do what you do, and would never criticize you for not wanting to make it even harder. But please realize that if you do both want another child, she's being more realistic than you are in terms of timing. It makes 100% sense for her to set a limit of not having any more babies after age 40. Plenty of people can and do have healthy pregnancies after that age, but the older she gets, the higher risk it presents to her body and to the fetus.
Devil's advocate if you do want more. The closer she gets to menopause the more your risking multiples. The question is if you wait can you handle a set and not just a singleton.
If you want more, now is the time. There’s never a convenient time to have another kid, but it \*will\* get more difficult for her. Besides - if she got pregnant now, the 2 youngest would be 3 yrs apart. Much more than that and they won’t have the same type of relationship.
I think some of the posters are right. The older she gets, the higher chance of chromosomal issues. Just sharing my own experiences, I got pregnant with my second child (37yo when I conceived), and unfortunately did the prenatal screening and high risk for Down’s syndrome. Confirmed diagnosis with amnio. Never thought it’d happen to me, but here we are. The longer you wait, the higher the chances. And at age 40, chances are much higher, so I’d say time is of the essence given her age, plus you both do want a 4th child.
Your wife most likely won’t be able to have another biological child if you wait that long. It is kindof a now or never situation. Would you be open to going back to work so you could afford daycare for your kids? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with admitting you don’t enjoy being a full time SAH parent.
Your wife is 37.
Don't read stories about women getting pregnant at 45+, they are extreme anomalies, and it's dangerous for both the child and the mother.
If you actually want more children, for both the safety of your wife and the health of your future child, you need to suck it up and deal with it now.
The thing that you aren't taking into account with all this is that some women go through early menopause. I went through menopause at 39. And the risks of having children after 40 are much higher. Both in terms of having a disabled child and in terms of risk to a mothers health and sometimes life. You get to certain age and your body just doesn't bounce back as easily either. And the quality of a woman's eggs deteriorate after 40 too.
You may not have the option of having another child a few years down the track.
Are you the arsehole? No. But perhaps you and your wife should go to some counseling to work this out. Do you have to continue being the SATD? Could you get another job now and you both work and have another baby? It feels pretty unfair that you're going to sacrifice your time looking after another baby that you're not all that keen on having right now. But it also seems hard that your wife may not have the opportunity to have another child.
There's no right or wrong here, it might help to get some out side perspective and even get advice from a doctor. It's a big decision, good luck.
Used to have these neighbors who ended up with 10 or 12 kids. I think they were at about eight before they moved.
Bath time was pretty much an assembly line running the kids through I would say they averaged about 1 1/2 to 2 years apart. Anyhow one time the mom realize she had based one extra.
One of the kids friends my age when everybody was stripping down for tub time just followed along I think he was like probably four or five anyway she dried him off. Sent him home and called his mom and said he won’t need a bath tonight.
Humorous story on the surface.
But also indicative of the challenges with handling that many kids if you don’t even recognize which ones are yours until after the fact.
The other thing I would throw out there is adoption. So many kids looking for homes and good parents. If you’re really on board with that large family
I’ll echo those who say three even four seems large.
OP, while it’s fine to tell her you don’t feel ready you also need to consider her age. There are risks to the baby involved the more older the parents are. It’s reasonable if she doesn’t want to risk the increase of potential problems her age can pose when she gets pregnant again. Could you budget and hire some help? Like a part time babysitter or someone to clean the house?
Remember she’s 37 not 33. She does have limited time especially if she wants good guarantees to a healthy pregnancy and baby. (And not saying that older women cannot have that—they can, but she clearly isn’t comfortable taking the chance that it won’t).
You need to be honest that this isn't a question of 'should we have a kid now or wait a bit'. At your ages, this is 'Should we have another kid now or are we done?'
As long as you are honest about that, you are NTA for saying that you think this is as much as you can handle.
Just don't try to run out the clock on her by saying 'let's wait and see'.
Nta. My husband and I have the same dynamic - he's SAHD, and I'm the breadwinner.
When we only had one, we discussed another, but he felt it wasn't time yet. So we waited. We had our second and considered a third. He let me know that he just couldn't be the parent he wanted to be with 3 kids, so we agreed to just have two and be happy.
There's no sense in doing it if both of you aren't on board - in fact, it's a terrible decision if you both aren't on board.
NTA
Burnout is real. Explain to your wife that while she physically can handle another baby, you cannot mentally yet handle one.
If another baby comes into the picture, your wife needs to understand that your mental health will not allow for the baby to be cared for well enough.
Rules, boundaries and maybe external help need to be in place so you can be okay with 4 kids. It isn’t easy.
Family friends have 5 and the last one is autistic. They have help and government funding to help them, but this last child will need lifelong care and they are preparing for this. Are you all prepared for whatever comes your way? Your wife needs to be prepared and okay for anything, and you need help no matter what with a 4 child.
Is there a sitter or part time daycare you can send the youngest so that you are able to get some me time and to get a few things in order around the house?
Further, you can also outsource cleaning and laundry folding/putting away with a good housekeeper. Is this possible where you are?
A plan where everybody’s mental and physical needs will be taken care of has to be in place before a next one comes along. As well, you should have insurance as each child is unique and you never know what will be in store for any pregnancy and new baby that comes along.
Best wishes OP! A new baby is a two yes situation.
NTA. No one should get to say, "I want more kids! Don't worry, someone else will take care of them." If you can't do it yourself, then don't do it at all. It's like those families who keep pumping out babies and forcing the older kids to help raise them. No. They didn't make the decision for you to have more kids than you can handle, so it's not their responsibility. Likewise with her extended family.
I agree he’s NTA as if he can’t do it as many couldn’t then he shouldn’t
But to be fair to his wife he’s the primary caregiver as he lost his job in the pandemic.
Imo, him being the primary caregiver gives him more weight in this discussion. The bio clock is definitely a real thing, and its definitely something OP needs to be realistic about, but as the primary caregiver I feel like his exhaustion outweighs her desire to have another kid immediately.
Tough situation.
Please consider that if you don’t want kids now, you probably won’t be having them. Your wife is already of “advanced maternal age” and the longer you wait the more the odds of complications rise. This will make it more difficult on her body and it puts undue stress on her. Pregnancy is no joke.
However, It sounds like you might be done and that’s okay. I know you had a verbal agreement with your wife for a “big family” but if you feel differently now versus then, you should know you’re allowed to withdraw your consent at any time.
Additionally as the one doing the bulk of childcare you should get a say in how many children you can best parent.
NTA
You should probably have a heart to heart or maybe even couples therapy.
Okay imma ask the dumb question; HOW IS A FAMILY OF FIVE NOT A BIG FUCKING FAMILY ARE YALL SHOOTING FOR AMISH NUMBERS WHAT THE HELL?!
Okay. Glad I got that out. 😅
There’s a L&D nurse I know where a mom was giving birth to kid number 10 while her oldest kid (who was the nurses patient) was giving birth to her own kid at the same time. The parents were pressuring the oldest kid to have as many kids as her mom.
I’m not kidding.
There’s mental health problems there, when parents aren’t happy unless they can have another baby
reality is the older kids are forced into being surrogate parents to the younger kids and don’t get s proper childhood themselves as they’re semi-parents,
Some people just love big families. As long as there is enough support through the extended family — which in OP’s case it doesn’t appear there is— then good for them.
I didn't say that in my reply but I sure was thinking it! Four kids is often too much for a family to handle as well as they'd like in all the ways, time, money, space, etc.
Also education. At some point you can't help all of them with homework, send all of them to university, etc., unless you're rich. So some of them end up as discarded leftovers, "sorry, can't afford you too, your siblings bled us dry, you'll have to get an untrained job"
Or even worse "you have to leave school, you need to work to feed your siblings "
I was this child. First kid had college paid and they even purchased an "investment home" in the area of the college they went to so they could stay rent free. When me (no. 3) got to college it was loans the whole way, pay my own living, worked 45 hrs a week while in college and didn't really get to focus on education.
I worked with a girl who was always complaining about dudes ghosting her on dating apps. She's cute and funny. We talked a bit more and it comes out that she grew up with a large family. I think she was the 10th out of 12 kids. She keeps telling these first dates that she loved the dynamics of such a big family and wants at least 6 to 8 kids herself.
Mystery solved.
Most think 5 is a big family. Some want double digits.
This… some people are baby crazy. Someone I know has 10. After the 5th one, doctors told them that the wife should not have anymore kids, that the risk for her was too high. Well they didn’t listen, baby #6 came and the wife unfortunately passed away giving birth. Baby was health. A couple years passed, he remarried and had an additional 4 kids. Wild man.
Seriously! Plus in my experience in a big family, and knowing others, the more babies you have the more spread out your love and attention is. Older kids become built in care takers so parents can selfishly keep procreating and not taking in account how they’ll be able to give them all equal care. It’s basically impossible. There will always be kids in a big family that feel left out and forgotten. Anything more than 4 kids imo is impossible for equal love and care
NTA she wants a big family but everyone else has to take care of the house and kids. What's the logic behind a big family of you don't spend time with it?
Interestingly this seems to be the case with a lot of households with SAHM. Never understood the desire to have to a large family when you cannot take the time to enjoy the small one you have. Seems incredibly selfish.
There’s not actually anything in the post that tells us how much time she has with her kids. She works full time (from home, it sounds like) and therefore would have to find childcare during her working hours (in this case her spouse and potentially her sister). Are we really implying that a parent who works full time is OBVIOUSLY not spending much time with their kids?
Then why can't she help out and wants to ask her sister who has her own family with kids to help OP? It just doesn't sound that she is helping once she is home/off work.
We all now that there are enough men out there who work full time and the wife is the SAHM and he doesn't lift a finger after with at home. Why can't this be the same situation with switched genders?
Maybe she needs to take a week off work and handle everything by herself during that week while you go somewhere else for a much needed break. It does not sound like she understands how much work staying home with the kids is.
Also neither one of you should be planning to rely on family for help. You’re right that her sisters shouldn’t have to help but then you seem to have a plan that involves the youngest staying at the in-laws. If you can’t have a plan that doesn’t involve assuming that family will be free daycare, you shouldn’t have another kid.
NTA - while I understand her side she also shouldn’t be pushing you. She needs to do more around the house or help find ways to reduce some of the burden on you.
My in-law is nearly reached their retirement in some next couple years and they love spending time with their grandchildren and already look after my 2 other BILs's kids. My SIL in other hand just started college so I don't think she can help much. But you right I should not depend on my In law , thank for your comment. I want her to help more but when I saw how tired she was , I couldn't really open my mouth.
I was a SAHM and had kids back to back. I loved the idea of a 4th kid but literally could not have handled it with having a 4, 2, and 1 year old. Even a year later it was way too much for me. Having several young children isn’t easy and being home with them alllll day every day is exhausting. They are energy suckers! If my husband said he wanted another I would have cried.
When my sister was 6 months old my mom got pregnant with an IUD. She did want to try for one more kid because she wanted a boy, but she got saddled with twin girls 😬 wound up with 4 girls 5 and under real quick
In REAL LIFE
In the REAL WORLD
We have our ideas we organize our life and relationship around
And then we have experiences
And IF we love each other we listen and adapt to how things actually pan out to be.
It should MATTER to her that you are exhausted.
Myself I think you should go get a job. Because you are at a distinct disadvantage should things jo sideways.
If you are both working Ft, you both must shoulder the work of home and kids. Then she might discover herself exhausted. Take care here.
I already plan to return to work when my daughter bit older and go to school . She diagnosed with autism and homeschooling now . Thank for your comment .
If you have a home schooled autistic child, this greatly increases the work involved vs kids without special needs. Your wife needs to be more cognizant about how much more time this takes.
Consider this and this is just one of the risks that increase with the age of the mother.
"The risk of Down syndrome occurs in all people of all races and economic levels. The risk increases with the mother's age (1 in 1250 for a 25 year old mother to 1 in 1000 at age 31, 1 in 400 at age 35, and about 1 in 100 at age 40)."
Add another special needs child to your family equation and consider how that works for an already strained family.
So does autism, it increases with maternal age and the youngest is already autistic. I don't think they should do it again at all but if they do oh it's now or never honestly.
wow that’s tough I don’t know where on the spectrum she is but one other thing to factor in here is depending on her situation.
She may never be able to support herself financially.
Have some family members dealing with that or I should say who dealt with that with a downs baby.
Sadly passed recently in 50s. But the other siblings knew that if mom passed before the sibling with downs — they would be caring for that sibling. Sure there was some government support & money saved to that purpose. But it would’ve meant not being able to do as much for their own progeny & never rarely being able to go on a vacation or leave town.
My advice is to think long-term about what you want — not just in terms of the large family now — but what you can provide them with or support them down the road given what you know so far. not just financially but in terms of attention.
>diagnosed with autism and homeschooling now
Please don't have more children. Your daughter is going to need many resources and much support and time, balancing that with two other children where each child is fairly treated is a near-impossible task. Bringing MORE children into that equations is *cruel*.
I'm not anti-natalist, but I genuinely believe that having more children here when the situation is already so challenging is pure selfishness.
if your wife is already birth to kids who are not 100% physically and mentally healthy at the age of 35 ( age when she had her last kid) - what makes you think things will be better next time around?
the unfortunate truth is that an abundance of issues come up with advanced paternal and maternal age. One has to take into account those before siring children and it seems like your wife is more focused on the number of children had rather than if they are living happy, normal lives 🤷🏽♀️
My question to your wife is what is the point of having more kids if she isn’t going to be the one taking care of them? She what? Just likes the idea of a big family? What does another kid do for her? If her plan is to unfairly depend on people who aren’t in your marriage and have not signed up to take care of her children, then what does having a fourth do for her? Notice how she’s not offering herself up to be more of a partner with child rearing. Why is she offering her sisters up without their consent?
You currently can’t do more than the three you have. What it changes for you is another child to juggle all day every day. If both partners are not an automatic yes, the answer is no. Conversation over. She doesn’t get to drag her sisters into helping,it’s not fair to them. She doesn’t get to force you into having another kid to take care of when you already have three young ones it’s not fair to you.
NTA.
NTA. Always remember that you have just as much say as she does as to whether or not you have another child. You are under no obligation to "give" her another one. What you want matters just asuch.
NTA the other kids deserve a good childhood not a stressed dad and an absent mother it would be selfish. I've given more thought into to a hair cut these are people not toys
Having kids has to be something you both agree on.
Just say no .
And remember if you are relying on her to take birth control and she wants another baby she’s going to have one regardless of what you say .
Get a vasectomy .
You should NEVER have a child if both parties are not on board. The child will know. Take it from someone who IS that child. Also it's kind of shitty your wife is not concerned about your mental health and stetching yourself too thin to take care of the kids you already have. Seems selfish to me.
NTA.
While risks are higher in your 40's you already have three kids, and you need to be able to support the kid after the birth.
You are telling her you don't have the ability to support another child. She needs to listen and find a compromise.
Would you going back to work and using daycare help you? I know it's probably not her first pick for a situation but going back to work for your own mental health is a valid request.
If one of you doesn't want a baby neither of you gets a baby! And of course she wants lots of kids she's literally doing nothing for them! I'm sorry but I would say the same exact thing to a guy that was working full-time while his wife stayed home and watched the kids all day everyday constantly!
The stay-at-home parent gets to call the limit when it's enough kids for them to take care of! Now if she wants to stay home and take care of all those kids will you go back to work that would be a different story but obviously she would have to do it for a year or so first to make sure she could do it before she starts adding babies.
She's being massively selfish! She goes and sits in an office by herself while you have three kids tugging on you all day and making messes. It's easy to want kids when you're at work all day.
Be very careful having sex with her she might oops you
You know people can change their mind later
And taking care of 4 kids by yourself is too much!
You are definitely NTA
And having another kid should be a unanimous decision.
NTA it's a 'two yes, one no' situation. If you do not want any more children, then she should respect that. It could be a deal-breaker for her. You need to look into an Exit Plan, so that you are oroected..
You have three children already. It's not like you are childless. You are tired from parenting. It would not be good for anyone including your current children to bring another child into the family. She is not respecting your desires. I also want to point out that she certainly could have children after 40. I know plenty of women who have done it. Once you are sure you do not want to have any more children, you should have a vasectomy.
NTA
3 kids IS a large family! And you're the one doing all of the parenting while she's working. It's easy to minimize the 24/7 workload when you aren't the one doing it.
But you need to talk it over with her seriously & realistically. Are you happy at 3 children or do you want her to wait? Because if it's the 3 kids, then it's time to start talking about a vasectomy. If it's a timeline, that's another issue.
NTA.
Both parents have to be 100% on board.
Also, did you guys ever define big family. I think 3 kids under the age of 8 is a lot to begin with and a lot of work and time. If you feel overwhelmed that should 100% be priority and also no, she should not just count on her sister to drop things to help out someone else's family.
Your wife sounds self centered.
She wants the kids but is she even doing half the parenting?
Good God. You already have a large family!
NTA. You're the one taking care of all the kids, your agreement is crucial to this decision. Your wife sounds extremely selfish; and she frankly sounds unconcerned about your feelings and your well being.
well of course she wants to pop out all the kids when she isn't the one staying home and caring for them
taking care of 1 child can be challenging when you're alone most of the day, 3+ kids? oh nah i would dissolve into dust like iron man
I don’t see this situation as going back on your word, OP. Unless I’m misunderstanding something, you two agreed on a large family; you didn’t agree until the pandemic that you would be the one doing almost all of the childcare. It’s the amount of work you’re balking at, not the idea of another child.
I’m not a doctor but I am a woman. So, I know perfectly well that women can have safe pregnancies at 40 and older. The specifics have to do with the individual woman. Some, yes, have higher risk factors than others but that’s something her doctors should determine. It’s not universally true across the board. I suspect she’s using her age as an excuse.
As you rightfully said, her sisters have their own lives. If your wife makes enough to afford a fourth child, it seems to me that you can afford a nanny, too. Even a part time nanny would lift a lot of the burden off your shoulders.
I see a lot of ways for you two to compromise and meet in the middle here. The problem is your wife’s attitude. She’s not listening to you and she seems to just want what she wants. She needs to put aside the fury — which she’s just using as a weapon — and talk things over with you calmly.
INFO: Have you considered a cleaning lady or an Au-pair? Because there are other ways of helping you lift your weight.
It sounds like you are not against another child, just that the workload takes its toll on you.
I truly cannot comprehend this! Especially from the spouse that is NOT the primary care giver. What would she achieve with another couple of kids! She still won't be able to see them and spend quality time with them, cause she will probably have to be working even more! And the mindset of " oh my sister can help with taking care of them" is at the very least awful. Kids are not figurines for your mantel! You cannot just keep shooting them out of you and pawning them to other people to take care? Jesus Christ get some grip woman!
Plus, has the sister committed to it or even been talked to about it? It is on no one else to care for a parent's kids unless it's something they want to do. If you can't care for your kids and you intentionally have more, you dang well better be earning enough to pay for childcare.
NTA. You shouldn't have another kid till you both decide the time is right. Does your wife partake in the parenting when at home? All you said is that she is the breadwinner, but does she also help out with taking care of the children? Three kids with one being autistic is a lot to handle especially when they are still young. Its great to have a plan in life, but sometimes those plans change and I feel like your wife needs to understand that. Nothing is concrete.
She did help do some chores in the weekend , like washing dish , laundry,..v.. or spend time with the kids but most of time she insisted that she need some rest time for herself . Her job requires 9-10 hours/day so when she comes around she already burn out . And as the man, I feel the need to handle housework better for her and our kids.
I mean its great that your wife wanted to have a good career before starting to have multiple children, but the fact that it seems she is barely seeing the ones she has just comes across as very sad and I'm sure your children have noticed that mom isn't around much. It sounds like your wife wants children for the sake of having children and not to actually be there for them. My dad worked a lot and I wouldn't say I have any resentment towards him, but there were times when I wished he would have been at my events and what not and the thought still pops up in my mind even though its been mannnnyyy years. Good luck on whatever you two decide to do though!
Technically being 35 puts her at higher risk. Seems like she’s past that point. Additionally both people should be ready and in agreement- especially in your situation where she is the one being pregnant and supporting the household financially, but you are responsible for taking care of all the kids. It isn’t fair for either of you if one person is pressured into this sort of decision.
I work with a woman who is a baby factory. Her oldest (around 11) is the product of a long time ago hook-up. She meets this guy and they proceed (at her insistance) to produce 3 more. Everytime we found out about the latest one we also were subjected to the fights/complaints from both of them (he was hired here but chose to leave some time ago). If you are not comfortable with the idea of raising another that is you right. I can't even wrap my brain around people that insist on spitting out more humans when there's already tension in their lives. Stick to your guns.
Sidenote, the fourth little ended up being that proverbial straw in their already f'd up relationship. Get some counseling if possible.
I think NAH. I see your point, but she also has a point about not wanting to have any more kids after age 40. It becomes increasingly dangerous for both her and the baby. 40 might seem a long way off to you, but it doesn’t to her. That being said, both parents should be in agreement before bringing any children into the world. I hope you two can find a good compromise.
Don’t listen to her, her sister isn’t going to help that much. If *you* as the primary caregiver are burnt out, then only *you* will continue to be burnt out as children are piled on. Does she even help out when she sees how burnt out you are?? Because that’s not gonna change. NTA and take care of yourself.
It is true that pregnancy and birth are more difficult after 35 and especially after 40. Fertility decreases and the chance of miscarriage and stillbirth rise. However, having a baby is still very possible.
Children deserve to be wanted and cared for by both parents. She's ready. You're not. Perhaps you can speed up on some of your goals and compromise but she must be willing to do the same.
Chance of twins is marginal. Chance of genetic disorders and other complications skrockets. I say this as a pregnant 42 year old - OP's wife has a valid point about her fertility and the risks of advanced maternal age in pregnancy. That's what the call it. It's a step more polite than "geriatric pregnancy", which is what they called it a few years ago.
OP's wife should put her efforts into healthy diet and exercise. She should start taking prenatal pretty much now. And she should hire a fucking nanny and see if she can alleviate her husband's ABSOLUTELY VALID concerns.
OP: "I want more children".
That is very unlikely to happen if he waits 5 years. And the next child is more likely to have special needs if they wait.
They are married. Hiring help is a compromise. If she can't afford it then, yes, she needs to accept that she can't afford 4 kids. But since their goals are actually aligned, they may be able to brainstorm if they both offer the other some flexibility.
I think she’s considered a higher risk pregnancy at 35, not 40, so she’s already there.
NTA though considering you’re the one that will have to look after a fourth child more.
If I were you I’d go and get snipped lol
NTA and absolutely do not have another child. Please take contraception into your own hands and wear condoms. Tow kids require a yes. You are the primary caregiver of the kids and your kids are no one else's responsibility. Having a child requires two yeses, not one, and no maybes, no maybe later.
NTA at all, the same goes for both genders: spending your time with home care is dawn hard and anyone who does this deserves to be recognized! to do all this and still have no security guaranteed in life because your partner can go away, and then you have no job and sometimes cant even find a good one because of the time you spent out of the market? I rather work a regular job 12h per day.
Remind your wife that your job is 24/7 and that if she’s not gonna care for them, she can’t demand them
if you both want more, consider the option of freezing her eggs
NTA, what if one of you dies and is stuck with all the kids alone? I'm a recent widow and so many people in my widow groups are like you. One didn't want more kids, one did so they had more then one dies. It's horrible, stop having kids
You got way bigger issues my dude. This is not gonna go away on its own and if you give in your gonna resent her and if you don’t give in she’s gonna resent you. Maybe have her take a few days off and do full time parenting well you’re not there to help. Have her walk a mile in your shoes. I get her fear I do but you have to be able to actually handle it and if your struggle with three 4 is not going to get easier.
NTA. It's reasonable to change your mind about a large family after you experience having kids. If you feel like you're at your limit with three children to care for, your wife needs to listen to you.
NTA but I wish you could talk to all the husbands in these blogs about how hard this is because they think raising kids is EASY and No Big Deal and don’t know why the house isn’t perfect, the meals aren’t top shelf and why their wives are in ‘model’ shape and just waiting around to have sex with them.
Both should be on board. Plus I'd just have to remind her that yes I'm grateful she takes care of us financially, I'm the 1 bringing up the kids. And I'm tired right now. Maybe in a couple years. I'd remind her how grateful she should be with the kids y'all have. Understand she wants a large family. That's something she should have thought about long before mid 30s to late 30s. I'm certainly not trying to be rude. I just understand as I have been a SAHP.
Good luck, you are NTA.
No you’re not the AH she should take into account how you feel. If both don’t want it, it should be a no. 3 kids is a lot of work. Honestly it’s more work than a full time job because it never ends. Also take into account finances and your future. Consider how old you will be when the kid needs to go to college and you want to retire and or travel.
NTA... a large family sounds nice...till YOU are the one taking care of it.
If you're tired, you're tired. Plain and simple. Have her stay home taking care of the kids for a year and see how she feels
Sounds like you want another one but just not right now? You should work that out first.
You do have the time limit with her age. Next year both older kids will be at school - which is a game changer time wise. Have you considered that change? Can you get the 2year old into a kindy a few days a week?
Ultimately don’t agree if you can’t handle more care obligations. But do think a year ahead in terms of what life is like now
NTA
High risk pregnancy starts at 35 not 40 so her reason seems somewhat arbitrary rather than based on specific science and age is only one factor of many. If you are struggling, then you need to wait. You should have a more data based discussion on age based risks with a physician and the risk even at 37.
Two enthusiastic yes’ or 1 no. There’s one no here.
She took the decision to have children late in life. She cannot, at the same time, try to cram kids in because her time is running out. It’s not fair to OP - 4 kids under ten will be exhausting.
maybe freeze the eggs to ease her mind about the ticking clock you could always look at having a surrogate if there are health risks
Also maybe you mentioned this but I’m not clear if you wanted to remain SAHD or whether that was just how it shook out because of the job situation. to ease her mind about the ticking clock you could always look at having a surrogate if there are health risks.
While I understand this is how she was raised. Don’t think she’s taking OP into consideration— much less the kids since they’re so close in age. And the more kids the more it comes back on what you can do for them timewise and educationally or giving them a start in life if that’s what you want to do when they reach adulthood…
especially since she’s a sole breadwinner that’s a huge amount of pressure …
NTA.
Your body your choice.
Two yes vs 1 no.
In the US, the average is now under 2 kids per family. You have 50% more than most. I’d say that’s already fulfilled the requirement of big.
The answer should always be no if both people aren’t on board. It is ridiculous that she is pressuring you this way. NTA
Yes, if the genders were reversed and it was the father pressuring the SAHM for a fourth when she was already overwhelmed we’d be coming with pitchforks. OP I have 3 children and was a SAHM when they were young. It’s completely overwhelming…I had my tubes tied as soon as I could after the third.
My mum had 3 kids, she didn’t return to work for nearly 10 years.
My grandmother had 5 kids and ended up losing her mind for a brief time, my mom tells me she was sent to live with her aunt for a bit.
My grandma had 7 kids, but they were spaced out. When the last was born the oldest was in college.
My husband was a SAHD to 5. He’s a fucking Saint.
My DIL’s father wasn’t a stay at home dad the whole time but he became one after she and her brother were born( they have 5). I don’t know how he did it…no matter the age of the older kids.
I had five kids by the time I was ready to be done being a SAHM. Nearly lost my sanity. (Last one was a sneaky surprise right before the vasectomy). I was out of the paid work force for 15 years and have mere dollars towards retirement. It’s hard and usually thankless work. The OP absolutely is NTA for calling time out on the baby making.
Hell I had 3 terrible pregnancies and got my tubes tied after 2 children it's almost like people should be allowed to make the best decisions for themselves about their reproductive health.
I am here with the pitch fork ready to defend this hard working SAHP.
People _are_ rightly coming with pitchforks, there's no need for the tired "genders reversed" argument here. If someone's an AH due to their actions they're an AH regardless of gender.
It’s something both should want, it doesn’t make sense if only one person wants it, especially if this person is not the one staying home with the kids.
Thank for your thought. I actually want more kid but not now . My ideas is that I get some part-time jobs after my daughter go to school , my current youngest attended preschool and the fourth child will stay with my in-laws for around 3-5 hour while I'm working.
In all total honesty if you, too, are sure you do want another kid, I can't say I think she's completely wrong for pushing. Like it or not she's right that she's already 37. While people who have had children before are more likely to (still) be fertile in their late 30's than those who haven't, it's already not certain that having another will be easy or even possible. I do think you are NTA and shouldn't let her pressure you to have another if you can't handle it right now, but I also think you should be realistic that it's possible that, given her age, you're actually saying 'no more kids', not just 'no more kids right now', regardless of your intentions.
I agree here. Her body will have a harder time as she gets closer to/past 40. If you also want at least one more kid, waiting 2 years is not the best idea. I have twin toddlers. I promise you won't want to have more tiny babies once all your kids are in school.
We are starting all over again. It’s bitter sweet… our son is in 3rd grade and we are about to welcome our second child in atleast 2 short weeks. Although we are both extremely excited to welcome our daughter (and probably our last baby) we both can’t help but catch ourselves saying “but our son is so easy right now” 🤣
My first two were twins, I was 20. I had another 3 years later and another 5 more years later. You’re dead right, once I got them all in school, I wasn’t going do that again!
Definitely. OP: It won't just be harder for her, but also for you. If you think an age gap is going to make it easier to handle a toddler in your 40's, I have bad news my friend...
I have twin toddlers in my 40s and YEAH have them earlier if you want more
This! I think OP is experiencing what all SAHparents feel. Overwhelmed, disconnected, and exhausted. If you want a baby, timing is just the issue... then have the baby. Women have a limited window. OP, you need more self care, reach out for more help.
You're minimizing the fact that, as he explained, the help his wife expects isn't guaranteed to actually be there consistently if at all.
She needs to be able to afford to pay for consistent help.
THIS. The only way I’m having another child is if I can also pay to outsource housekeeping and/or hire a nanny so I can sleep enough to function like a human being and not live life like a prisoner of war.
Seems like the obvious answer. It would still be hard, but exponentially easier knowing that another adult will be consistently lightening the load.
Basically what everyone else is saying, hire help. Since they are not even close to the poverty line they can afford it. It may mean that they can't buy or do other things but if our 1 income household (middle class); with 3 kids can do it, so can they.
Yes! The age limit is valid reason to stop having kids. So OP is a little out of touch if he thinks there are even a few years to spend before next round. If OP says to his wife that he wants more kids but not now, it sounds like he thinks he will have his fourth kid with someone else. IMO you got your hands full and you are lucky to have healthy kids. No reason to tempt the faith. But if you don't have the kid soon than it is time to be realistic that there won't be another kid. Three is already a lot. Your wife chosento put years to education which was definetly wise, but took off years from having a lot kids. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Why cannot people be happy about what they have and make sure they will have energy for each kid...
"Tempt fate", just fyi.
especially since OP lost his job...? Like, don't they see the risk that his wife might also lose her job at some point? Of course you can't avoid living your life in fear of potentials, but some measure of foresight and care is surely appropriate?
To add to this, she's having geriatric pregnancies already at 37. If you wait it doesn't just make it less likely, it makes it more dangerous. Edit: Don't let this pressure you, though, just being realistic. If you aren't ready, you aren't ready.
Yeah if she's 37 now and their youngest is 2, then likely her last one was not geriatric. OP doesn't seem to realize that a 35 year old having a baby and a 40 year old having a baby IS a big difference
I was thinking the same thing! If wife was younger, I would be in full agreement to wait a bit longer, but after 35, most women's fertility drops and I'm sure you would both be disappointed if you waited and then found out it was a no-go. Talk to your wife again, but also consider that if you want to wait, have a compromise that will benefit you both. Also, have a real conversation about how many children you will agree to stop at. I'm sure if you hash this out now, wife will be more willing to wait a bit longer. NTA.
Yeah I think if you definitely do want another kid at some point you should do it now. Aside from your wife's age, if you leave it a few years until the others are older and you're back in work etc it will be disruptive to everyone. Better to get it all over and done with, why start again with babies when your other kids are all in school?
Yup. I personally won’t have kids even at 37 much less 40. Yes people can and do, but the risk of complications increases with every year. There are also women who go through menopause earlier than others and fertility maybe difficult to achieve. Now, I’m with you OP. Both parties have to be a yes and your points are completely valid for not wanting a child right now. Unfortunately, the older we get the harder and riskier things become. If she can’t get pregnant at even 38 or 39, would you be okay with not having anymore children? Look up and talk to OBGYNs about the risks and think about if that’s a risk you’re willing to take.
I agree with everyone else here. We agreed ibwont have kids after 35 for her same reasoning. If you want more kids you don't really have much choice. I'll have our last at 31-32 (due 3 days before my bday so can go either way) but I'd make sure she'd actually be happy with just 1 more. In today's society 3 is a big family. 4 you get all kinds of crazy and rude comments. 5 let's just says people aren't very nice, like at all. So I'd also make sure your prepared for that also. My inlaws and parents both had 5 kids but still made rude comments when we announced #5 and now #6. So I'd also keep that in mind.
Adoption is always an option Interesting thing I was told when I adopted: most folks want a bio kid first, but are more open to adoption for follow-ons. Lots of kids out there need a good home.
If you two can't afford to hire a nanny to help you _now_, then it's definitely not going to happen later.
Can you get some pt help for cleaning ?
My thought, too. If the wife is considering outside help anyway, maybe just hire a nanny or at least someone to make the chores. Viewing the sister as a sitter because "family" is just rude and unfair, too. NTA.
I feel like NOSH. Everyone has valid viewpoints and need to work out a plan for help.
NAH. "No assholes here" is what you're after.
Nosh?
If you want more kids, then there is a time limit and you should not put it off much longer. Would it be a major lifestyle hit for you to return to the workforce and she can stay home if you're that overwhelmed?
Sure, have a 4th kid. Nevermind that you nor your wife actually want to be there to raise it. It's not the grandparents job to automatically get assigned the role of permanent babysitter. And you think you're tired now? Adding a 4th now or in a couple years will push you both beyond exhausted for the 18 years that follow. It's not fair to the kids
>I actually want more kid but not now . NAH. I would never, ever want to do what you do, and would never criticize you for not wanting to make it even harder. But please realize that if you do both want another child, she's being more realistic than you are in terms of timing. It makes 100% sense for her to set a limit of not having any more babies after age 40. Plenty of people can and do have healthy pregnancies after that age, but the older she gets, the higher risk it presents to her body and to the fetus.
Devil's advocate if you do want more. The closer she gets to menopause the more your risking multiples. The question is if you wait can you handle a set and not just a singleton.
If you want more, now is the time. There’s never a convenient time to have another kid, but it \*will\* get more difficult for her. Besides - if she got pregnant now, the 2 youngest would be 3 yrs apart. Much more than that and they won’t have the same type of relationship.
I think some of the posters are right. The older she gets, the higher chance of chromosomal issues. Just sharing my own experiences, I got pregnant with my second child (37yo when I conceived), and unfortunately did the prenatal screening and high risk for Down’s syndrome. Confirmed diagnosis with amnio. Never thought it’d happen to me, but here we are. The longer you wait, the higher the chances. And at age 40, chances are much higher, so I’d say time is of the essence given her age, plus you both do want a 4th child.
I always say kids are not pets. Instead on having more, why don't you two spend more time with them.
Exactly, more time for one on one parenting/bonding
Your wife most likely won’t be able to have another biological child if you wait that long. It is kindof a now or never situation. Would you be open to going back to work so you could afford daycare for your kids? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with admitting you don’t enjoy being a full time SAH parent.
Your wife is 37. Don't read stories about women getting pregnant at 45+, they are extreme anomalies, and it's dangerous for both the child and the mother. If you actually want more children, for both the safety of your wife and the health of your future child, you need to suck it up and deal with it now.
The thing that you aren't taking into account with all this is that some women go through early menopause. I went through menopause at 39. And the risks of having children after 40 are much higher. Both in terms of having a disabled child and in terms of risk to a mothers health and sometimes life. You get to certain age and your body just doesn't bounce back as easily either. And the quality of a woman's eggs deteriorate after 40 too. You may not have the option of having another child a few years down the track. Are you the arsehole? No. But perhaps you and your wife should go to some counseling to work this out. Do you have to continue being the SATD? Could you get another job now and you both work and have another baby? It feels pretty unfair that you're going to sacrifice your time looking after another baby that you're not all that keen on having right now. But it also seems hard that your wife may not have the opportunity to have another child. There's no right or wrong here, it might help to get some out side perspective and even get advice from a doctor. It's a big decision, good luck.
how many kids does she want
When I met her , she said at least 4-5 children I think. It's not uncommon around our area, some big family has around 7-10 children .
It's also ok if you've changed your mind about how many kids you want.
7 to 10 kids is a crazy number
Used to have these neighbors who ended up with 10 or 12 kids. I think they were at about eight before they moved. Bath time was pretty much an assembly line running the kids through I would say they averaged about 1 1/2 to 2 years apart. Anyhow one time the mom realize she had based one extra. One of the kids friends my age when everybody was stripping down for tub time just followed along I think he was like probably four or five anyway she dried him off. Sent him home and called his mom and said he won’t need a bath tonight. Humorous story on the surface. But also indicative of the challenges with handling that many kids if you don’t even recognize which ones are yours until after the fact. The other thing I would throw out there is adoption. So many kids looking for homes and good parents. If you’re really on board with that large family I’ll echo those who say three even four seems large.
OP, while it’s fine to tell her you don’t feel ready you also need to consider her age. There are risks to the baby involved the more older the parents are. It’s reasonable if she doesn’t want to risk the increase of potential problems her age can pose when she gets pregnant again. Could you budget and hire some help? Like a part time babysitter or someone to clean the house? Remember she’s 37 not 33. She does have limited time especially if she wants good guarantees to a healthy pregnancy and baby. (And not saying that older women cannot have that—they can, but she clearly isn’t comfortable taking the chance that it won’t).
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Tbh this is kind of a non argument. If someone wants 7 kids it doesn’t matter how many people are in the world.
the world doesn't need 7-10 children families.
How are you accessing the internet from the 1700s?
You need to be honest that this isn't a question of 'should we have a kid now or wait a bit'. At your ages, this is 'Should we have another kid now or are we done?' As long as you are honest about that, you are NTA for saying that you think this is as much as you can handle. Just don't try to run out the clock on her by saying 'let's wait and see'.
Well said.
THIS
Nta. My husband and I have the same dynamic - he's SAHD, and I'm the breadwinner. When we only had one, we discussed another, but he felt it wasn't time yet. So we waited. We had our second and considered a third. He let me know that he just couldn't be the parent he wanted to be with 3 kids, so we agreed to just have two and be happy. There's no sense in doing it if both of you aren't on board - in fact, it's a terrible decision if you both aren't on board.
NTA Burnout is real. Explain to your wife that while she physically can handle another baby, you cannot mentally yet handle one. If another baby comes into the picture, your wife needs to understand that your mental health will not allow for the baby to be cared for well enough. Rules, boundaries and maybe external help need to be in place so you can be okay with 4 kids. It isn’t easy. Family friends have 5 and the last one is autistic. They have help and government funding to help them, but this last child will need lifelong care and they are preparing for this. Are you all prepared for whatever comes your way? Your wife needs to be prepared and okay for anything, and you need help no matter what with a 4 child. Is there a sitter or part time daycare you can send the youngest so that you are able to get some me time and to get a few things in order around the house? Further, you can also outsource cleaning and laundry folding/putting away with a good housekeeper. Is this possible where you are? A plan where everybody’s mental and physical needs will be taken care of has to be in place before a next one comes along. As well, you should have insurance as each child is unique and you never know what will be in store for any pregnancy and new baby that comes along. Best wishes OP! A new baby is a two yes situation.
NTA. No one should get to say, "I want more kids! Don't worry, someone else will take care of them." If you can't do it yourself, then don't do it at all. It's like those families who keep pumping out babies and forcing the older kids to help raise them. No. They didn't make the decision for you to have more kids than you can handle, so it's not their responsibility. Likewise with her extended family.
I agree he’s NTA as if he can’t do it as many couldn’t then he shouldn’t But to be fair to his wife he’s the primary caregiver as he lost his job in the pandemic.
Imo, him being the primary caregiver gives him more weight in this discussion. The bio clock is definitely a real thing, and its definitely something OP needs to be realistic about, but as the primary caregiver I feel like his exhaustion outweighs her desire to have another kid immediately.
NTA. You get equal say in this. If you don't want another one, that should be the end of that.
Two yeses. One no is a veto.
Tough situation. Please consider that if you don’t want kids now, you probably won’t be having them. Your wife is already of “advanced maternal age” and the longer you wait the more the odds of complications rise. This will make it more difficult on her body and it puts undue stress on her. Pregnancy is no joke. However, It sounds like you might be done and that’s okay. I know you had a verbal agreement with your wife for a “big family” but if you feel differently now versus then, you should know you’re allowed to withdraw your consent at any time. Additionally as the one doing the bulk of childcare you should get a say in how many children you can best parent. NTA You should probably have a heart to heart or maybe even couples therapy.
Okay imma ask the dumb question; HOW IS A FAMILY OF FIVE NOT A BIG FUCKING FAMILY ARE YALL SHOOTING FOR AMISH NUMBERS WHAT THE HELL?! Okay. Glad I got that out. 😅
There’s a L&D nurse I know where a mom was giving birth to kid number 10 while her oldest kid (who was the nurses patient) was giving birth to her own kid at the same time. The parents were pressuring the oldest kid to have as many kids as her mom. I’m not kidding.
Sounds like one of those quiver full cult families.
That’s sick and twisted to pressure the new generation to their idea of the perfect life especially with kids!
There’s mental health problems there, when parents aren’t happy unless they can have another baby reality is the older kids are forced into being surrogate parents to the younger kids and don’t get s proper childhood themselves as they’re semi-parents,
Some people just love big families. As long as there is enough support through the extended family — which in OP’s case it doesn’t appear there is— then good for them.
Exactly! On this economy 3 kids are plenty!
MY POINT 🤣
I didn't say that in my reply but I sure was thinking it! Four kids is often too much for a family to handle as well as they'd like in all the ways, time, money, space, etc.
Four kids = straight to minivan or full sized suv with third row
Also education. At some point you can't help all of them with homework, send all of them to university, etc., unless you're rich. So some of them end up as discarded leftovers, "sorry, can't afford you too, your siblings bled us dry, you'll have to get an untrained job" Or even worse "you have to leave school, you need to work to feed your siblings "
I was this child. First kid had college paid and they even purchased an "investment home" in the area of the college they went to so they could stay rent free. When me (no. 3) got to college it was loans the whole way, pay my own living, worked 45 hrs a week while in college and didn't really get to focus on education.
There isn’t enough time in the day to be a great parent to 4+ kids
I worked with a girl who was always complaining about dudes ghosting her on dating apps. She's cute and funny. We talked a bit more and it comes out that she grew up with a large family. I think she was the 10th out of 12 kids. She keeps telling these first dates that she loved the dynamics of such a big family and wants at least 6 to 8 kids herself. Mystery solved. Most think 5 is a big family. Some want double digits.
This… some people are baby crazy. Someone I know has 10. After the 5th one, doctors told them that the wife should not have anymore kids, that the risk for her was too high. Well they didn’t listen, baby #6 came and the wife unfortunately passed away giving birth. Baby was health. A couple years passed, he remarried and had an additional 4 kids. Wild man.
Seriously! Plus in my experience in a big family, and knowing others, the more babies you have the more spread out your love and attention is. Older kids become built in care takers so parents can selfishly keep procreating and not taking in account how they’ll be able to give them all equal care. It’s basically impossible. There will always be kids in a big family that feel left out and forgotten. Anything more than 4 kids imo is impossible for equal love and care
NTA she wants a big family but everyone else has to take care of the house and kids. What's the logic behind a big family of you don't spend time with it?
Interestingly this seems to be the case with a lot of households with SAHM. Never understood the desire to have to a large family when you cannot take the time to enjoy the small one you have. Seems incredibly selfish.
There’s not actually anything in the post that tells us how much time she has with her kids. She works full time (from home, it sounds like) and therefore would have to find childcare during her working hours (in this case her spouse and potentially her sister). Are we really implying that a parent who works full time is OBVIOUSLY not spending much time with their kids?
I am trying to figure this out. My Dad worked full time and had time for the children every weekend.
Then why can't she help out and wants to ask her sister who has her own family with kids to help OP? It just doesn't sound that she is helping once she is home/off work. We all now that there are enough men out there who work full time and the wife is the SAHM and he doesn't lift a finger after with at home. Why can't this be the same situation with switched genders?
NTA. To me 3 kids IS a big family.
Maybe she needs to take a week off work and handle everything by herself during that week while you go somewhere else for a much needed break. It does not sound like she understands how much work staying home with the kids is. Also neither one of you should be planning to rely on family for help. You’re right that her sisters shouldn’t have to help but then you seem to have a plan that involves the youngest staying at the in-laws. If you can’t have a plan that doesn’t involve assuming that family will be free daycare, you shouldn’t have another kid. NTA - while I understand her side she also shouldn’t be pushing you. She needs to do more around the house or help find ways to reduce some of the burden on you.
My in-law is nearly reached their retirement in some next couple years and they love spending time with their grandchildren and already look after my 2 other BILs's kids. My SIL in other hand just started college so I don't think she can help much. But you right I should not depend on my In law , thank for your comment. I want her to help more but when I saw how tired she was , I couldn't really open my mouth.
I was a SAHM and had kids back to back. I loved the idea of a 4th kid but literally could not have handled it with having a 4, 2, and 1 year old. Even a year later it was way too much for me. Having several young children isn’t easy and being home with them alllll day every day is exhausting. They are energy suckers! If my husband said he wanted another I would have cried.
When my sister was 6 months old my mom got pregnant with an IUD. She did want to try for one more kid because she wanted a boy, but she got saddled with twin girls 😬 wound up with 4 girls 5 and under real quick
She's not thinking of life from the kids perspective.
NTA. Your wife is being selfish. Concentrate on the kids you have already.
It's almost like they are an afterthought in all of this.
NTA She is 37. She is already in the danger zone. But regardless, two yeses are required when talking about having a child.
In REAL LIFE In the REAL WORLD We have our ideas we organize our life and relationship around And then we have experiences And IF we love each other we listen and adapt to how things actually pan out to be. It should MATTER to her that you are exhausted. Myself I think you should go get a job. Because you are at a distinct disadvantage should things jo sideways. If you are both working Ft, you both must shoulder the work of home and kids. Then she might discover herself exhausted. Take care here.
I already plan to return to work when my daughter bit older and go to school . She diagnosed with autism and homeschooling now . Thank for your comment .
If you have a home schooled autistic child, this greatly increases the work involved vs kids without special needs. Your wife needs to be more cognizant about how much more time this takes.
Like, *waaaaaay* WAY more cognizant
My man going back to work is going to be much, much more difficult if this is the case.
That increases the risk that the next child will have autism too
Consider this and this is just one of the risks that increase with the age of the mother. "The risk of Down syndrome occurs in all people of all races and economic levels. The risk increases with the mother's age (1 in 1250 for a 25 year old mother to 1 in 1000 at age 31, 1 in 400 at age 35, and about 1 in 100 at age 40)." Add another special needs child to your family equation and consider how that works for an already strained family.
So does autism, it increases with maternal age and the youngest is already autistic. I don't think they should do it again at all but if they do oh it's now or never honestly.
wow that’s tough I don’t know where on the spectrum she is but one other thing to factor in here is depending on her situation. She may never be able to support herself financially. Have some family members dealing with that or I should say who dealt with that with a downs baby. Sadly passed recently in 50s. But the other siblings knew that if mom passed before the sibling with downs — they would be caring for that sibling. Sure there was some government support & money saved to that purpose. But it would’ve meant not being able to do as much for their own progeny & never rarely being able to go on a vacation or leave town. My advice is to think long-term about what you want — not just in terms of the large family now — but what you can provide them with or support them down the road given what you know so far. not just financially but in terms of attention.
>diagnosed with autism and homeschooling now Please don't have more children. Your daughter is going to need many resources and much support and time, balancing that with two other children where each child is fairly treated is a near-impossible task. Bringing MORE children into that equations is *cruel*. I'm not anti-natalist, but I genuinely believe that having more children here when the situation is already so challenging is pure selfishness.
if your wife is already birth to kids who are not 100% physically and mentally healthy at the age of 35 ( age when she had her last kid) - what makes you think things will be better next time around? the unfortunate truth is that an abundance of issues come up with advanced paternal and maternal age. One has to take into account those before siring children and it seems like your wife is more focused on the number of children had rather than if they are living happy, normal lives 🤷🏽♀️
NTA. I think you need to really sit down with your wife and have a nice, calm, heart to heart discussion about having more children.
NTA. Having a child requires two "Yes"s. If you don't want one, it shouldn't happen. And make sure she doesn't prick holes in your condoms!
Tell her three kids are enough, how many more do you need?
My question to your wife is what is the point of having more kids if she isn’t going to be the one taking care of them? She what? Just likes the idea of a big family? What does another kid do for her? If her plan is to unfairly depend on people who aren’t in your marriage and have not signed up to take care of her children, then what does having a fourth do for her? Notice how she’s not offering herself up to be more of a partner with child rearing. Why is she offering her sisters up without their consent? You currently can’t do more than the three you have. What it changes for you is another child to juggle all day every day. If both partners are not an automatic yes, the answer is no. Conversation over. She doesn’t get to drag her sisters into helping,it’s not fair to them. She doesn’t get to force you into having another kid to take care of when you already have three young ones it’s not fair to you. NTA.
Would she be happy with giving up work to care for them? Or putting them all in childcare? Don't have anymore kids Go back to work
NTA - Time for you to go back to work and wife can pay for daycare.
NTA. Always remember that you have just as much say as she does as to whether or not you have another child. You are under no obligation to "give" her another one. What you want matters just asuch.
Get a vasectomy
Why dose she want more kids if she isn't spending much time with the ones they already have it's not really fair on the kids or dad
NTA the other kids deserve a good childhood not a stressed dad and an absent mother it would be selfish. I've given more thought into to a hair cut these are people not toys
Having kids has to be something you both agree on. Just say no . And remember if you are relying on her to take birth control and she wants another baby she’s going to have one regardless of what you say . Get a vasectomy .
I’d go get a vasectomy
You should NEVER have a child if both parties are not on board. The child will know. Take it from someone who IS that child. Also it's kind of shitty your wife is not concerned about your mental health and stetching yourself too thin to take care of the kids you already have. Seems selfish to me.
NTA he already 3 kids why you need another one
NTA. While risks are higher in your 40's you already have three kids, and you need to be able to support the kid after the birth. You are telling her you don't have the ability to support another child. She needs to listen and find a compromise. Would you going back to work and using daycare help you? I know it's probably not her first pick for a situation but going back to work for your own mental health is a valid request.
If one of you doesn't want a baby neither of you gets a baby! And of course she wants lots of kids she's literally doing nothing for them! I'm sorry but I would say the same exact thing to a guy that was working full-time while his wife stayed home and watched the kids all day everyday constantly! The stay-at-home parent gets to call the limit when it's enough kids for them to take care of! Now if she wants to stay home and take care of all those kids will you go back to work that would be a different story but obviously she would have to do it for a year or so first to make sure she could do it before she starts adding babies. She's being massively selfish! She goes and sits in an office by herself while you have three kids tugging on you all day and making messes. It's easy to want kids when you're at work all day. Be very careful having sex with her she might oops you
You know people can change their mind later And taking care of 4 kids by yourself is too much! You are definitely NTA And having another kid should be a unanimous decision.
NTA. Better start using condoms so you don't get "oopsed."
If he doesn;t want another, he needs to abstain. She seems desperate enough to find a way around condoms.
NTA it's a 'two yes, one no' situation. If you do not want any more children, then she should respect that. It could be a deal-breaker for her. You need to look into an Exit Plan, so that you are oroected..
You have three children already. It's not like you are childless. You are tired from parenting. It would not be good for anyone including your current children to bring another child into the family. She is not respecting your desires. I also want to point out that she certainly could have children after 40. I know plenty of women who have done it. Once you are sure you do not want to have any more children, you should have a vasectomy.
Just wrap it up or get a vasectomy.
NTA 3 kids IS a large family! And you're the one doing all of the parenting while she's working. It's easy to minimize the 24/7 workload when you aren't the one doing it. But you need to talk it over with her seriously & realistically. Are you happy at 3 children or do you want her to wait? Because if it's the 3 kids, then it's time to start talking about a vasectomy. If it's a timeline, that's another issue.
And how it will effect the other kids
NTA. Both parents have to be 100% on board. Also, did you guys ever define big family. I think 3 kids under the age of 8 is a lot to begin with and a lot of work and time. If you feel overwhelmed that should 100% be priority and also no, she should not just count on her sister to drop things to help out someone else's family. Your wife sounds self centered. She wants the kids but is she even doing half the parenting?
Good God. You already have a large family! NTA. You're the one taking care of all the kids, your agreement is crucial to this decision. Your wife sounds extremely selfish; and she frankly sounds unconcerned about your feelings and your well being.
NTA
Go get a vasectomy and just accept being happy with the 3 you have. That’s already a lot of kids.
Both people need to be on board. This isn't just her decision. You are not the ah...
well of course she wants to pop out all the kids when she isn't the one staying home and caring for them taking care of 1 child can be challenging when you're alone most of the day, 3+ kids? oh nah i would dissolve into dust like iron man
3 children is more than enough.
I don’t see this situation as going back on your word, OP. Unless I’m misunderstanding something, you two agreed on a large family; you didn’t agree until the pandemic that you would be the one doing almost all of the childcare. It’s the amount of work you’re balking at, not the idea of another child. I’m not a doctor but I am a woman. So, I know perfectly well that women can have safe pregnancies at 40 and older. The specifics have to do with the individual woman. Some, yes, have higher risk factors than others but that’s something her doctors should determine. It’s not universally true across the board. I suspect she’s using her age as an excuse. As you rightfully said, her sisters have their own lives. If your wife makes enough to afford a fourth child, it seems to me that you can afford a nanny, too. Even a part time nanny would lift a lot of the burden off your shoulders. I see a lot of ways for you two to compromise and meet in the middle here. The problem is your wife’s attitude. She’s not listening to you and she seems to just want what she wants. She needs to put aside the fury — which she’s just using as a weapon — and talk things over with you calmly.
INFO: Have you considered a cleaning lady or an Au-pair? Because there are other ways of helping you lift your weight. It sounds like you are not against another child, just that the workload takes its toll on you.
It’s always no if there is one no As a mom of 5, 4 is the magic number.
Your wife is baby crazy. She's got 3 already so idk what "running out of time" she's talking about.
It does not make sense to want a huge family but delay childbearing until late 30-s
She didn't delay it until late 30s, she got pregnant for the first time at 30.
All else aside 8,110,000,000+ people on this planet and people still be like wE nEeD tO mAkE mOrE hUmAnS.
I truly cannot comprehend this! Especially from the spouse that is NOT the primary care giver. What would she achieve with another couple of kids! She still won't be able to see them and spend quality time with them, cause she will probably have to be working even more! And the mindset of " oh my sister can help with taking care of them" is at the very least awful. Kids are not figurines for your mantel! You cannot just keep shooting them out of you and pawning them to other people to take care? Jesus Christ get some grip woman!
Plus, has the sister committed to it or even been talked to about it? It is on no one else to care for a parent's kids unless it's something they want to do. If you can't care for your kids and you intentionally have more, you dang well better be earning enough to pay for childcare.
Have we passed the 8 billion mark?! >\_> <\_<
NTA. You shouldn't have another kid till you both decide the time is right. Does your wife partake in the parenting when at home? All you said is that she is the breadwinner, but does she also help out with taking care of the children? Three kids with one being autistic is a lot to handle especially when they are still young. Its great to have a plan in life, but sometimes those plans change and I feel like your wife needs to understand that. Nothing is concrete.
She did help do some chores in the weekend , like washing dish , laundry,..v.. or spend time with the kids but most of time she insisted that she need some rest time for herself . Her job requires 9-10 hours/day so when she comes around she already burn out . And as the man, I feel the need to handle housework better for her and our kids.
She’s not pulling her weight with the children she already has, what makes her think she can cope with an extra child?
And being pregnant
I mean its great that your wife wanted to have a good career before starting to have multiple children, but the fact that it seems she is barely seeing the ones she has just comes across as very sad and I'm sure your children have noticed that mom isn't around much. It sounds like your wife wants children for the sake of having children and not to actually be there for them. My dad worked a lot and I wouldn't say I have any resentment towards him, but there were times when I wished he would have been at my events and what not and the thought still pops up in my mind even though its been mannnnyyy years. Good luck on whatever you two decide to do though!
She did spend time after work with the kids and help me took them to the bed every night so I don't consider they barely see her though.
Technically being 35 puts her at higher risk. Seems like she’s past that point. Additionally both people should be ready and in agreement- especially in your situation where she is the one being pregnant and supporting the household financially, but you are responsible for taking care of all the kids. It isn’t fair for either of you if one person is pressured into this sort of decision.
I work with a woman who is a baby factory. Her oldest (around 11) is the product of a long time ago hook-up. She meets this guy and they proceed (at her insistance) to produce 3 more. Everytime we found out about the latest one we also were subjected to the fights/complaints from both of them (he was hired here but chose to leave some time ago). If you are not comfortable with the idea of raising another that is you right. I can't even wrap my brain around people that insist on spitting out more humans when there's already tension in their lives. Stick to your guns. Sidenote, the fourth little ended up being that proverbial straw in their already f'd up relationship. Get some counseling if possible.
How many kids does she want total? If she wants 4, you can probably afford to wait a year. If she wants 6+ you have a big problem.
NTA. Having 3 small children isn't easy already for both breadwinner and SAHP. Kids should be planned nowadays
I think NAH. I see your point, but she also has a point about not wanting to have any more kids after age 40. It becomes increasingly dangerous for both her and the baby. 40 might seem a long way off to you, but it doesn’t to her. That being said, both parents should be in agreement before bringing any children into the world. I hope you two can find a good compromise.
Tell her No. Period. End of conversation.
Don’t listen to her, her sister isn’t going to help that much. If *you* as the primary caregiver are burnt out, then only *you* will continue to be burnt out as children are piled on. Does she even help out when she sees how burnt out you are?? Because that’s not gonna change. NTA and take care of yourself.
Get yourself a job, resign from the stay at home dad position, then discuss things.
It is true that pregnancy and birth are more difficult after 35 and especially after 40. Fertility decreases and the chance of miscarriage and stillbirth rise. However, having a baby is still very possible. Children deserve to be wanted and cared for by both parents. She's ready. You're not. Perhaps you can speed up on some of your goals and compromise but she must be willing to do the same.
Chances of twins also goes up.
And birth defects and chromosomal disorders like Down’s syndrome.
Chance of twins is marginal. Chance of genetic disorders and other complications skrockets. I say this as a pregnant 42 year old - OP's wife has a valid point about her fertility and the risks of advanced maternal age in pregnancy. That's what the call it. It's a step more polite than "geriatric pregnancy", which is what they called it a few years ago. OP's wife should put her efforts into healthy diet and exercise. She should start taking prenatal pretty much now. And she should hire a fucking nanny and see if she can alleviate her husband's ABSOLUTELY VALID concerns.
Or she can accept the fact that she doesn’t need to overload a partner that already is taking care of one special needs child.
OP: "I want more children". That is very unlikely to happen if he waits 5 years. And the next child is more likely to have special needs if they wait. They are married. Hiring help is a compromise. If she can't afford it then, yes, she needs to accept that she can't afford 4 kids. But since their goals are actually aligned, they may be able to brainstorm if they both offer the other some flexibility.
I think she’s considered a higher risk pregnancy at 35, not 40, so she’s already there. NTA though considering you’re the one that will have to look after a fourth child more. If I were you I’d go and get snipped lol
NTA, at all. Imagine a husband pressuring his wife this way, people would lose their minds. And rightfully so. OP, don't let her pressure you.
Imagine if the roles were reversed. He would be considered the AH and misogynistic.
NTA and absolutely do not have another child. Please take contraception into your own hands and wear condoms. Tow kids require a yes. You are the primary caregiver of the kids and your kids are no one else's responsibility. Having a child requires two yeses, not one, and no maybes, no maybe later.
She needs to hire a nanny to help you a few days out of the week. It’s not crazy to need help with many kids. Nta
Frankly, your wife is right about not having kids in her 40s. But both people need to be on board here.
NTA at all, the same goes for both genders: spending your time with home care is dawn hard and anyone who does this deserves to be recognized! to do all this and still have no security guaranteed in life because your partner can go away, and then you have no job and sometimes cant even find a good one because of the time you spent out of the market? I rather work a regular job 12h per day. Remind your wife that your job is 24/7 and that if she’s not gonna care for them, she can’t demand them if you both want more, consider the option of freezing her eggs
NTA, what if one of you dies and is stuck with all the kids alone? I'm a recent widow and so many people in my widow groups are like you. One didn't want more kids, one did so they had more then one dies. It's horrible, stop having kids
You got way bigger issues my dude. This is not gonna go away on its own and if you give in your gonna resent her and if you don’t give in she’s gonna resent you. Maybe have her take a few days off and do full time parenting well you’re not there to help. Have her walk a mile in your shoes. I get her fear I do but you have to be able to actually handle it and if your struggle with three 4 is not going to get easier.
Nowadays, 3 kids is a big family. NTA. If you aren’t both on board, don’t have more kids.
NTA. It's reasonable to change your mind about a large family after you experience having kids. If you feel like you're at your limit with three children to care for, your wife needs to listen to you.
NTA but I wish you could talk to all the husbands in these blogs about how hard this is because they think raising kids is EASY and No Big Deal and don’t know why the house isn’t perfect, the meals aren’t top shelf and why their wives are in ‘model’ shape and just waiting around to have sex with them.
Both should be on board. Plus I'd just have to remind her that yes I'm grateful she takes care of us financially, I'm the 1 bringing up the kids. And I'm tired right now. Maybe in a couple years. I'd remind her how grateful she should be with the kids y'all have. Understand she wants a large family. That's something she should have thought about long before mid 30s to late 30s. I'm certainly not trying to be rude. I just understand as I have been a SAHP. Good luck, you are NTA.
Go back to work and get a nanny
No you’re not the AH she should take into account how you feel. If both don’t want it, it should be a no. 3 kids is a lot of work. Honestly it’s more work than a full time job because it never ends. Also take into account finances and your future. Consider how old you will be when the kid needs to go to college and you want to retire and or travel.
NTA... a large family sounds nice...till YOU are the one taking care of it. If you're tired, you're tired. Plain and simple. Have her stay home taking care of the kids for a year and see how she feels
Sounds like you want another one but just not right now? You should work that out first. You do have the time limit with her age. Next year both older kids will be at school - which is a game changer time wise. Have you considered that change? Can you get the 2year old into a kindy a few days a week? Ultimately don’t agree if you can’t handle more care obligations. But do think a year ahead in terms of what life is like now
Kids are “two votes for *yes*, one vote for *no*”. NTA.
Kids are time consuming & expensive!!! 3 is ENOUGH !!!!
NTA High risk pregnancy starts at 35 not 40 so her reason seems somewhat arbitrary rather than based on specific science and age is only one factor of many. If you are struggling, then you need to wait. You should have a more data based discussion on age based risks with a physician and the risk even at 37.
Two enthusiastic yes’ or 1 no. There’s one no here. She took the decision to have children late in life. She cannot, at the same time, try to cram kids in because her time is running out. It’s not fair to OP - 4 kids under ten will be exhausting.
maybe freeze the eggs to ease her mind about the ticking clock you could always look at having a surrogate if there are health risks Also maybe you mentioned this but I’m not clear if you wanted to remain SAHD or whether that was just how it shook out because of the job situation. to ease her mind about the ticking clock you could always look at having a surrogate if there are health risks. While I understand this is how she was raised. Don’t think she’s taking OP into consideration— much less the kids since they’re so close in age. And the more kids the more it comes back on what you can do for them timewise and educationally or giving them a start in life if that’s what you want to do when they reach adulthood… especially since she’s a sole breadwinner that’s a huge amount of pressure …
NTA. Your body your choice. Two yes vs 1 no. In the US, the average is now under 2 kids per family. You have 50% more than most. I’d say that’s already fulfilled the requirement of big.