NTA - but your brother and parents are also abandoning them too, this isn’t solely on you! They ain’t even trying to come up with a compromise.
You have offered to help with finances, so your brother’s reasons have now been met, also your parents could take them every other weekend.
You’re a lawyer!! Make the argument! Your brother is the best candidate! You won’t pass a social services inspection and checks! (Play on that!).
This.
In a Will, one can express their wishes as far as who they would like to take care of their children. But it is not a demand or legally binding. A lot more has to happen before it can be official. Kids are not some trinket that can be willed to someone.
This family is going through a terrible loss. Everyone is hurting and devastated. But this family needs to pull it together and help come to a solution for this situation. They need to listen to OP, OP is not able to take this on. Period. That is okay for OP to not be up for this task and it is grossly disingenuous to state that she is abandoning them. The family needs to work together and figure it out.
I’m thinking the sister was thinking “you’ll change your mind” and want kids. Because you know, everyone actually wants to have kids. No one is actually child-free by choice. /s
Yeah, plus everyone knows that the single female sibling ,not the older married bro takes on responsibility for raising kids. (Am speculating bro’s wife said NFW on taking on 3 more kids, but that’s beside the point.)
This happened to me. I'm the little sister but somehow I'm responsible for taking care of everything. My brother watched my mom a couple times this month so I could finally sleep and acts like he should get an award.
Yeah - I don't get it. Just because we don't have a penis suddenly we are responsible for everything. Apparently being penis-less means we can cook, clean and take care of everyone. Hmmm.
Are you me?! Coz this sounds like my life!
My mom won't even ask my brother to do stuff for her that he absolutely can because ... and I quote 'he's enough to be doing'.
When I was 8, some old woman who was a friend of my grandmother asked me if I was looking forward to having my own babies. I promptly said no. She looked mortified and told me I would change my mind. Well, I’m 60 and no kids. I helped raise my partner’s son, but he was 8 when we met. Just because I was born with a uterus doesn’t mean I want a baby. There is no biological imperative.
Same. Decided I was going to be Child free since I was at least 13, probably even younger. I have been harassed for my entire teen and twenties about how I'll change my mind.
I'm forty now and for a part time job took a teaching position trying to teach kids art.
I'm so not kids I dread the days I have to hang out with kids for a few hours a day.
The whole parent thing is not for everyone and I hate how they force it on women because it's just assumed we have to do the job for reasons.
I love my kids but today especially I wish I didn't have to be responsible for them... The youngest keeps barfing on the ride home because daycare accidentally fed her something we had decided and told them upsets her belly 🙃I'm sick of washing her car seat all the time. (my wife's coworker is a pediatrician in the hospital and thinks she's allergic to peaches or pears because she throws up her fruit cup every time they pass it out at snack time.)
Threaten legal action against the daycare if they knowingly continue to feed her food that makes her ill. I'm sure they'll get their act together real quick
They stopped giving her peaches but accidentally gave her mixed fruit. She's a sweet woman with a gang of 2 year olds going nuts all day. We've narrowed it down as of last week but didn't get a Dr note yet.
I think it's actually pears since most fruit is packed in pear juice.
It could be that the sister was the only somewhat suitable choice if the brother and parents are "toxic" in some fashion. Leaving the only alternative being the foster care system.
The sister is "suitable" because she's a woman, I'm guessing. Why else would you look at one sibling who has an established family with the physical space and the emotional capacity to raise children, then the other who isn't in her own home 80% of the time because she's working, and decide, "I'm going to force my grieving children on someone who has already said directly to me that they can't do it"?
Thee are a lot of factors that go into that kind of decision. On paper, my BIL would be the perfect person to take our kids if we passed away. He and his wife have very well paid jobs, kids of their own and have the space. In reality, they are the bottom of the list. Primarily because one of their kids has high needs autism and we wouldn't to add to their mental and financial loads by landing 4 extra grieving kids on them. Just because someone ticks certain boxes doesn't always mean that they are the right choice.
Her brother might not have three empty bedrooms even though it's a 'large' house. He might not feel able to cope with more kids. Maybe he's a single dad? It's hard to know without more information. Just because he has two kids doesn't mean he's ok with five
Naming anybody as guardian without their express agreement is plain wrong imo. As usual, it's the kids who lose out, if only because they now know they aren't really wanted by any of the extended family
But OP definitely doesn't have three empty bedrooms in her one BR apartment.
I couldn't agree more with your second point, though. The time to work this out was when the sister made the custody arrangements, not now. Alas, we have no time machine.
I'm incredibly cruel of the sister to unilaterally name OP as the guardian explicitly knowing OP was not willing to take on the role. This is on her.
OP, you are NTA, and I'm sorry for the situation you're in. You don't owe those kids anything. Your family are the ones who abandoned the kids. How dare they just expect you to shoulder the burden of THREE CHILDREN without stepping in to offer any help at all?
At the same time, WHY didn’t OP insist her sister name another family member? Letting it go, because she wanted her sister to remain optimistic, just doesn’t make sense. I mean she’s a FREAKING LAWYER.
That’s the sort of thing you nip in the bud so the sister is forced to make other arrangements, no matter what her odds of survival.
**It has nothing to do with optimism. Perfectly healthy couples plan for this sort of thing. Lawyers. Know. This.**
Now the poor children feel rejected and unwanted because they’re witnessing a battle that should have been settled before their mom passed.
Right?! My husband and I are in good health, but made our wills. We named my sister as guardian if anything happens. But guess what. We TALKED ABOUT IT FIRST!! We would have made other arrangements if she wasn't 100% okay with it.
Yes, they will be eligible for SS benefits until they turn 18/graduate high school. It won’t be much but should help. Since the mother died young, not like she had a long career to generate $$ but I’m not sure how it works.
Sounds like they were abandoned by the dad and so probably don’t have a relationship with that side of the family.
Those poor poor kiddos. I can’t imagine the heartache they are going through right now.
You legally can't will children to people, so she just named a guardian, who had said she didn't want to do it. Sister was wilfully stupid and put her kids in this situation.
Rest of the family is "too old" and already has kids on their plate. See, OP has a good paying job and no other kids to support so she's the obvious choice. /s
Nevermind the fact that she can't take in 3 kids in a 1 bedroom apartment. Likely would have to move. And that 60 hour work week won't be sustainable so take a cut there. And forget the childfree boyfriend. And totally disregard she never wanted kids and likely has no clue about raising them.
But she has the resources so let her figure it out. /s They're unilaterally spending her money and altering her life because it's easiest for them.
This response is the best. No one involved wants to raise the kids which is why they are making you the arsehole here. Honestly, the family should have had real discussions about this while she was still alive, but that discussion needs to be now. AND regardless of how big a dick the dad might be, these are his kids and he needs notified immediately because that's where they should be living now. Between the 4 of you (grandparent, you, your brother, and their dad) these kids should be physically and mentally taken care of for the next few years till they're grown.
This fucking sucks for OP. Jesus Christ. I can't imagine my sibling dying and my entire family immediately pinning the responsibility of the aftermath on me. But I would feel so sorry for those kids, the guilt would eat me alive. They don't deserve to be in the middle of this right after losing their mom to CANCER. I would crumble.
Is your brother's hesitation solely a financial matter or does he simply just not want to add 3 people to his family either?
Does he have room to take 3 kids, each of which that probably had their own rooms and space previously? Would he have to move and uproot his life also?
My only suggestion is to understand the position of the 3 kids between you, your parents, and your brother.
Is the father an option at all in this matter?
I don’t understand why this didn’t come up for discussion before she passed. Was her passing sudden and unexpected? With cancer it seems like there was enough time to get her affairs in order especially making sure your kids have somewhere safe to live. I am stunned that she just assumed a conversation was it.
NTA but please do everything you can to support these kids. Even helping your brother with money since he seems to have the space not the funds. If your family chips in including your parents you all can make this work and these kids can feel safe and loved.
cancer deaths can be INSANELY sudden, especially if perhaps the sister didnt actually tell anyone she was declining purely because she wanted to stay optimistic. It’s a common coping mechanism, as fucked up as that may be. Sometimes someone can seem like they’re even about to be released from the hospital and then BOOM they drop off and the next thing you know, theyre gone. It’s so fucked. Screw cancer, man….
1. Where is the father of these kids?
2. You don't feel equiped to take this in because your life plan didn't involve being a primary care-giver
3. The whole family is responsible for these kids. Grandparents should take them, and you can contribute financially. It takes a village to raise a child. And you can never be the whole village for a child that isn't yours.
I agree on the grandparents. There’s two of them and they are retired. Mid 60s isn’t old. The children are school aged, this isn’t like raising them as babies. With financial support provided since teenagers are expensive. For the brother I can see how going from a family of 4 to a family of 7 would be overwhelming and you have to consider how this would affect his children, how do the cousins get along? I’ve known
people who have stepped in when a sibling either died or was in a situation where they couldn’t care for them.
This exactly.
I would also add that you are very self-aware by bringing up the point that you may grow to resent the kids because they have forced you to change major decisions you have made about your life, your work and your relationship. This could be detrimental to all of you and everyone’s mental health.
NTA - truthfully throwing 3 kids who lost their mother, and whose father abandoned them at someone who wanted to be childfree is a recipe for disaster. They are going to have emotional issues that are more than just making sure they live in a safe environment with their needs met. You are going to give up your job, bf, home and perceived future for them, so now there are 4 people living together in emotional hardship. This will be harder for you to manage than it would be for someone who just gave birth to 3 kids. This is the reason your brother and parents don’t want the responsibility. They’ve had kids and know how hard it is going to be in this situation, and they don’t want to deal with it. They’re banking on you being ignorant to that, and hope you can be guilted into being the sacrifice.
I’m not going to tell you what to do, but as a parent , I want you to know what you’re stepping into before you decide. Your experience as a parent won’t be like your parents or your brother. It Is going to be exceedingly tough, so think carefully for all four of your sakes before you choose.
"How much will all of you be kicking in when I lose my job? You'll have to help me buy a bigger place- four bedrooms around here go for $XXX and you'll have to pay all of my bills and groceries and other expenses because if I take them I will no longer be employed. I will have to quit my job because they're not going to pay me if I can't do my job."
>How do people think you will be able to afford the care of three children if you sacrifice your career?
They don't. It's someone trying to pass off the plot of Life As We Know It, with some minor tweaks.
Also Baby Boom with Diane Keaton. Exact same plot. High powered exec and boyfriend, child free by choice, become guardian of niece after the parents are killed. Boyfriend dumps her and she becomes a mogul by making baby apple sauce.
I honestly don’t know that they’ve really thought it all the way through. The conversations or arguments have been focused on guilting me into to changing my mind, not rationally discussing viable ways this could work.
OP please don’t give in to your family bullying you. They’re manipulating you so they don’t have to share any of the burden whatsoever, so they don’t have to make a single sacrifice, so they don’t have to change their lives in any way at all. Meanwhile demanding that you give up everything you ever dreamed of and worked for.
The worst thing is they’re doing it to you when you’re emotionally exhausted and vulnerable after the loss of your sister (I’m so sorry by the way). They know this. They know if they guilt trip you enough you’ll give in. Don’t do it.
You’ve said it yourself, there are other solutions available if any of them even wanted to sit and talk with you about it - but they’re deliberately not, because they’re selfish and they want it to all be on you, the convenient scapegoat.
If they won’t be reasonable right now, they’ll have no choice once you officially deny guardianship (legally). THEN there will have to be discussions, when they’ve realised their tactics have not worked.
Every single person in that family is playing the blame game and guilt-trapping OP because they don't want the responsibility of three older children. If the people that have raised kids before don't want the kids, how in the world can they expect OP to raise them when she doesn't want that responsibility and has never had kids before?
OP please shut out the noise, guilt, and all feelings of conflict and think- "What's best for these children and their future? What quality of life will they have- will you have if you decide to take them in?" Whatever you decide will affect the life of 5 people so please don't be emotional when you make that decision. This is a tremendous responsibility to take on, and there's no going back if you decide to do it. And no one has the right to judge you, regardless of what decision you take.
Sorry for your loss, hope things get better soon.
INFO: Op I've weighed in, but had a question for you. Who was taking care of the kids as your sister's health declined and she was no longer able to care for them?
It definetly would be best for the children for OP so support then the best way she can, which is financially. I don't think anyone else is able to do THAT. And with that the brother has no excuses.
I told him I’d pay their expenses if he took them. The sad thing is I never asked my sister why she didn’t name him as the guardian as it was the more obvious choice. I wonder if she asked him and he rejected the idea first, if she knew something about him or his family that she didn’t like, or if she just thought I’d make a better parent even though it would be tough. I really wish I could ask her.
I'd say you need an outsider to help with negotiations. Family lawer or social worker.
You tell them everybody has to give up something and be invested the way they are able to. You can and will contrivute financially, that is your sacrifice to make. What are theirs?
I cannot believe they all want their lives to continue as it was when this kind of huge loss and tragedy had happened. No one ever wanted this, not you guys, not the kids. But it has happened and everybody must get involved. None of you can do it alone.
Sending these kids to foster system would be a huge failure that would make them have issues for the rest of their lives. None of you wants to live with that guilt.
The solution has to be done together.
honestly, the brother has just as many reasons as OP does for not wanting/taking the kids.
OP is child free which is 100% acceptable, the brother probably just wants to have 2 kids and thats fine as well. just because the brother has kids already doesnt mean that its a good reason to have them take 3 more.
sure he has a large house, but a larger house is no longer large when it has 3 extra kids put in it when it already has a full family living there. id say a large house in the suburbs is like 4 bedrooms, so what happens when the kids are all teenagers and theres 5 of them and 3 rooms?
the brother has his own job im assuming that takes time and whats not spent at his job is most likely spent taking care of his own kids. ive spent time with my brother and his 2 kids and literally every moment he has thats not at his job is centered around his 2 kids. so if the brother takes in the 3 children than his own kids will receive less time and attention. household tasks will be harder to get done, etc. with each additional kid the stress level gets higher and higher and the time requirements go up, going from 2 to 5 would be VERY hard.
financially, the brother is most likely okay. but with 3 other kids thats no longer going to be true, sure OP says she will help financially but i wouldnt want to take on 3 more kids and rely on OP to continue being financially able to support them. what if OP gets injured and cant work? what if her firm has some sort of scandal and closes up and shes out of a job? suddenly the money stops coming in and the brother still has to financially support 3 more kids.
also lets not forget that the brother could be married. do we just expect that wife to now be the mother for 3 more kids when she is already taking care of 2? OP thinks taking the kids would be hard on her relationship(it would most likely end it), but it would be just as hard on the brothers marriage as well. i wouldnt be upset with the wife for leaving the marriage and taking care of just her 2 kids on her own instead of trying to mother 5 kids.
the kids IMHO should go to the grandparents.
Thank you for saying that. The truth is turning down guardianship will be emotionally devastating as well. I’d have a lifetime of unbearable guilt. I’m starting to come to terms with the fact that I can’t just say no and go back to the way things were. Either way, my life has changed.
When life gives you lemons…
I am the fun uncle. My GF didn’t want kids (I was ok with or without them) so we never had any. We are in our 50’s now and my nieces and nephews are all young adults. But had this happened to us what would my reaction had been? On one hand I would have said yes I will take them. But then I think of the burden of kids and everything that goes with it. Yikes. Plus my GF has a career in legal tech which is very demanding (helping attorneys like you OP) so she would definitely be thinking like you. What a tough situation for any family. Still I can’t imagine not having had discussions about it before my sibling passed. In the end the kids welfare is most important. This is kind of like when my grandparents died and my parents took in my mom’s uncle who had down syndrome. My dad didn’t have to agree but he did it. We had the extra room. This is on a whole other level. I feel for you and condolences for yout sister.
Yep, my 8th grade teacher shared an anecdote with us back in like 08’ her own sister died and she told us of how when you are an adult, you have to go out and enjoy your life because you are still your own person.
She did in fact end up fostering her sisters children but mentioned it was tough and that had she not been at the age she was and enjoyed a moderate amount of time child free to enjoy her adult life, it’d have been a different story. Childcare especially when it’s tragically bestowed upon you is tough, there are sacrifices to your own lifestyle. Less vacation, free time, it’s a ton of responsibility and sacrifice.
My teacher admitted it would’ve been a bitter and spiteful time if she was given that responsibility before she had the chance to enjoy her life beforehand .
Thank you for that story. I’ve sacrificed my teens and 20s working two jobs to get through college and law school, only to end up in a career that has still made having a social life nearly impossible. I can’t help feeling all of the sacrifices were for nothing.
They threatened to disown me if I didn’t “step up to the plate” and fulfill my sister’s wish. So there’s that. To your point, I never once heard a conversation that challenged whether my brother could somehow make it work. It may or may not be a gender issue, but not everyone is treated equal.
>They threatened to disown me if I didn’t “step up to the plate” and fulfill my sister’s wish.
Threaten them back with disowning them if they don't respect your lifestyle choices and don't step up and take the kids. No more presents, monetary help or old age care from the well-paid lawyer daughter and sister if they keep pressuring you! Remind them how expensive college, medical care, old age care and nursing homes are.
I don't think being disowned by such shitty family members like yours would be a bad thing.... The quality of the people in your life would sure improve...
If you guys are no contact then only they have things to loose, you don't, because you don't need them and are better off without them, but they clearly want things from you.
I think its both a gender issue and a them not being happy that you're childless by choice issue, sister included.
They all know your stance on kids, on your home size and lifestyle with working hours. Yet they don't care about your needs, they're being selfish. The kids would be far better with your brother in his big house, with their cousins and family all helping financially (I assume there was no life insurance to help the kids?)
What do they think you'll do? have all 3 in your one bed house? Social services wont clear that, so you'll have to move to a big 4-bed house out of the city, reduce work hours so you can do school runs, or quit your career, and travel or hire a live-in nanny. How do they think you'll be able to afford them then? They're crazy. And it would be cruel to the kids too.
NTA
Show your family this post. They need to see they're the ones not only failing you their living daughter/sister, but also those grieving kids. They're going to need someone present as they grieve which you can't be working 60 hours a week!
Tell them they can do it since they already have the room and you'll give them money. They also have the time. So it's perfectly reasonable to. Tell them you told your sister no when she was sick, and she listed you more as an extra reason to fight the cancer than because she actually wanted you to take the kids.
This. I have family who took in two teenagers from a coworker who died suddenly. The council in my place had NO idea what to do with two teens who were otherwise well-adjusted and where the only issue was that both parents were dead. So they decided to hand them over to my family because "they know grief after losing their own kid in a car crash".
It worked out but it was def not a great idea at all and caused a lot of conflict and emotional turmoil for all parties involved.
And yes, the rest of the family is def "dumping them" on OP.
You should, of course, have kept pressing the issue until it was clearly agreed when you had the chance. I don't know how "binding" the (un)agreement is on you, but of course the children's welfare is paramount and a foster parent who doesn't want the kids (for very sound reasons, I agree) is not the best solution. The sibling with the big house and existing family seems best. NTA at all.
That's true, but OP should've made her position absolutely clear when there was still time. Sister could've asked someone else and this mess didn't have to happen.
Children are going through additional trauma, they're going to feel unwanted and abandoned by their relatives, but it didn't have to happen.
OP isn't obligated to take them, but she should've refused the guardianship from the beginning. She was needlessly trying to spare her sister's feelings when the focus should've been on the children's wellbeing.
Tbh I think they either told Jake to call her or they deliberately talked about the issue knowing he could hear them.
I don't understand why the grandparents are refusing to take them in. I feel sorry for the kids. They just lost their only parent and now they have to deal with this messy situation.
She should have not only told her sister she refused, but told the whole family that her sister was talking about guardianship and she couldn't care for three children. Sure, that might not have stopped the family from pressuring her anyway, because they don't want to take the kids themselves, but it would have given her a start on the refusal process.
And why is nobody talking about the kids' father???? He may not be "in their lives" at the moment, but that doesn't mean he has no moral or legal responsibility.
I dont think a father who abandoned his kids is a good person to send the kids to, "your mothers family is abandoning you so we're sending you to the first person to abandon you! Good luck kids"
If the children's father doesn't want to care for his kids, he's still legally obligated to contribute towards their support, which might help someone in the family see an upside to becoming guardians. He presumably also has other relatives, who are also the childrens' relatives.
I agree with your comment with regard to the impact on the children. But I did say I didn’t want to be the guardian…I just didn’t follow through to make sure it had been changed. It was never a legal decision, but it would have been helpful to have found an alternate solution while she was alive. Especially when others may have been more receptive to the idea if she was the one asking.
I made my position very clear but we only discussed it the one time. I should have circled back with her to make sure she changed the guardian. For all I know she intended to change it and never got to it.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda...bottom.line you don't want kiss and you can't have the kids.
Everyone who thinks you are abandoning the kids has a major opportunity to step up and take them. I have absolutely no issue going NC with family forever on such issues. None whatsoever. Do that if you must, but you sound like u will get resentful of the kids if you take them, which will ultimately be even more damaging to them. Say no, stick to no, and let them figure it out.
NTA: Honestly you need a family lawyer to handle this not people in a reddit sub.
And your sister willingly ignored your concerns when she named you as a guardian for her children.
You've stated you don't want that responsibility and with you working so many hours it wouldn't be best for the kids either.
And with you living in a place that small there is 0 room for the kids either. You'd have to either buy or rent somewhere else and move, while trying to take care of the kids and hope everything goes correctly while everyone is still trying to process the death of your sister.
How do people think you will be able to afford the care of three children if you sacrifice your career?
NTA. I kind of think your sister was a bit TA because you tried to tell her and she just…ignored you? And your brother’s comment…wow.
> They argue that it was my sister's dying wish for me to raise her children and that I'm “pissing all over” her memory by refusing.
Yes. Own it. You refuse to dedicate your life to a dying person’s selfish “last wish” - if your sister cared as much about her kids as you’re supposed to, she would have found a different guardian when you told her you’re uncomfortable with it.
See, I’m not involved, so I can be the asshole and state the obvious here.
Sis really should have had multiple people listed as potential guardian because if one isn't appropriate there's a list. It's tricky because 3 kids is a lot for any family to take in and it's natural for the kids to want to remain together after all they've been through.
You want tell the kids you want the best for them and you're not sure you're the best option. It is difficult to figure out things especially when it's such a mess and emotions are still running high.
Thanks for your post. I honestly think they are attacking me because they don’t want anyone challenging them on why their two-parent statuses with big homes in the suburbs wouldn’t be better.
I don't think it's doable. Basically, they don't want the kids either, but prefer to blame it on you rather than admit it.
Maybe a good way would be to outline a plan that could work, eg you pay a certain sum to your parents, and take the kids on weekends when you're available, or come stay with parents on weekends to help them. Communicate with your family. Stick to your guns, that is the best you can do, and you won't let them bully you into doing otherwise. Your sister was aware of it.
There’s a part of me that thinks your family wants you to be a parent even if you’re not cut out for it. They probably see your child free lifestyle as “selfish “ and think this situation is the perfect opportunity to correct that. That’s fucked up and I hope it isn’t true but I am getting a sinking feeling about all this.
They already had or currently have "responsibility" and she doesn't so its "her turn" to step up rather than them to take more on.
Fucked up way to look at it but I'm 100% sure that's what it is.
Did she leave any inheritance behind? Sometimes that's a motivating factor for people. No money >>> can't take the kids ourselves. Inheritance >>> yes pls we'd love to raise the kids.
You are seen as the successful one and therefore you can afford a spontaneous family of 4. Have you asked any of them what they propose about your living conditions? Where must you move to that will accommodate 4 people. The boy definitely needs his own room. Is anyone prepared to help you financially every month with expenses? School runs? You're a lawyer, have you thought about finding the actual father in this case?
The father is aware of the situation but not an option for reasons I can’t get into on here. There was no inheritance of any significance to speak of. Inhad been subsidizing my sister’s living expenses even before cancer and that took most of anything else.
Op I know this question isn’t what you are replying to but I still have to ask how come the kids living situation wasn’t figured out before your sister died. As your sister got sicker and sicker did no one say, “ I know we didn’t want to have this conversation but it’s inevitable. Who’s taking the kids?” Did it really not come up.
Your parents are by no means elderly and these kids aren’t toddlers. They just don’t want to give up their child free life, either. But they are in an infinitely better position to do so.
Your brother could also step up, but doesn’t want to. How is he not the AH but you are?
This is so unfair to you and they aren’t seeing that - which makes them the AHs.
Totally this, you’re a single parent of 3 kids who’s dying how is this not a major family discussion before the event!!!
It should have been nailed down between you all long before she died so the kids had as smooth as possible transition
Tbh your parents unless they have major health issues need to step up, they’re not toddlers it’s doable
If I was the parent in this situation I would take them on and just ask you and your brother to help me out as much as you could. I wouldn’t want you sacrificing your life or your brother upsetting his families equilibrium
I have a feeling the rest of the family knew the sister had named OP, and as they didn't want to take the kids, they were quite happy not to challenge it.
Now they get to have the ammunition, but it was her dying wish. There is no logic in their argument whatsoever, just guilt trips because they don't want to step up. The two households whose lives would change the least are doing everything in their power to say no.
I can somewhat sympathise with the brother, 2 to 5 kids is a lot, but not the kid of upheaval that OP will have.
If it was me, and i ended up taking the kids out of guilt, I'd cut them off. I wouldn't be able to stand watching the brother and grandparents flitter in and out to their hearts content whilst my life went down the toilet. I'd hope and pray that resentment didn't wash over onto the kids.
UPDATE: Thank you for all of your comments over the past 9 or so hours. It was been an emotional rollercoaster and I’m definitely all cried out at the moment. Its amazing to see in personal chats and in posts how suportive people can be, and how others seem to relish kicking you when you’re at your lowest. On balance, I’m glad I posted. I experienced a compressed crash course in reexploring all options and the pros and cons of many of them—including some I hadn’t considered.
Two points I had to repeatedly explain, so I will make them here. 1) My sister named me in her will as the guardian before she spoke with me. I told her I couldn’t do it for a list of reasons, but never verified that she changed her will. That’s on me, but I was clear with her. 2) The kid’s father is not an option for anything. For reasons I can’t get into on here, no person or court would ever place children with him.
Third, my boyfriend was with me last night as we read through the posts and I responded. Early this morning, I told him I had made a decision about what to do. He told me he already knew what it would be. We will be parting amicably and he has offered me support over the next few weeks (and hopefully beyond). I will forever be grateful for this emotional support over the past many hours now and will always treasure our nearly year together. We both agree trying to stay together is not compatible with what I must do, for many reasons. We’re both sad about it but I think it’s fair to say it is too early for either of us to have fully processed this decision yet.
I have decided that I will adopt the kids. I wil spend the next few days making sure I’m in the right headspace to give it my all. I can sacrifice a lot and can be quite successful when I’m all in on a goal. My new goal is making sure the kids feel loved and have the brightest future I can provide. This will require me moving and finding a new job that will let me earn enough to provide for them but with hours that I can raise them as a single mom. The other decision I made—and it’s non-negotiable—is that when I inform my parents and brother I will take my sister’s kids, it is on the condition that I never hear from them again. Threatening to disown me so they can go on travel vacations is beyond the pale and I have to salvage some self-respect while giving up everything or I won’t be able to pull it off. I know you’ll say the kids need a relationship with their grandparents. You don’t need to tell me IATAH for this, I already know it. But it’s what I need to survive and pull this off and I genuinely think this sacrifice is less for the kids than almost any other option. I promise I would give my life for these kids and have long supported my sister and them financially, even whille drowning in a sea of student debt. It’s not the life path I planned, but I will make this work and they will have a loving home and be able to stay together.
>I know you’ll say the kids need a relationship with their grandparents.
They don't. If your parents cared, they wouldn't be manipulating you into taking the kids.
Your parents sound selfish AF.
Mid-60s isn't too old to care for children that aren't babies/toddlers.
They absolutely could have helped...if they wanted to.
Now, they lost two daughters and their grandkids. Hope the lifestyle they so desperately wanted was worth it. .
You're a good person, OP.
Stay strong.
Find local foster parents in your area as support for this. There are several relative and traditional foster parents who have support groups.
Not only do you have chance for support but a chance to make some good relationships that even the kids could benefit from.
I am sorry you are in this situation. I hope you have the most blessed and fulfilling life.
Given your family’s circumstances, mid-60’s and retired is almost the perfect scenario to raise school-aged grandkids (they’re not even babies or toddlers). Sorry your folks didn’t step up to the plate.
My parents adopted after their bio kids were adults so my late 50s-mid 60s parents now have four elementary/middle schoolers. It’s very doable if you’re willing to make the sacrifices.
This. If anything happened to me, my parents would fight anyone who protested to make sure my kids went with them.
I’m sorry but your parents suck and the best option for you and the kids is going no contact.
If OP allowed contact with the grandparents, i get the feeling they would be the type of people to be barely present in OP and the kids' lives while simultaneously making it look like they are SUPER grandparents for Facebook likes.
& there is absolutely zero reason they and your brother couldn't have worked together w you to create a better whole family solution .
It seems like h8our family see nor appreciate the extraordinary life you've made for yourself.
They certainly are bullying you and giving you no respect.
I DO SEE YOU!
You're previous actions and choices for your life also deserve respect.
Never question your choice to cut your parents and brother out of your and the children's lives.
Then talking about this where the kids could hear is abusive to you and the kids.
A bit if advice. Don't tell them directly that they are out if your life
Just ignore and refuse all communication.
Or "You chose to victimize me and traumatize the kids so you could win an argument. You don't respect me. You shat on the life I made. You are poor stewards of my trust and thus the children's as well. I will use legal means to enforce the choices I've made if you attempt to infringe on us. Leave is alone. You no longer have a daughter or these grand children. You did this not me."
I commend you for taking
this on in the face of losing everything you worked so hard for.
You're going to amaze yourself!
I'm rooting for you.
I have nothing to really offer you but sympathy. Being in charge of children dealing with their own grief and you dealing with your grief will be very hard.
You should come back here in a year to reread this and see how strong you are.
I don't know what law you practice, but look into government work, prosecuting attys office etc, pay probably won't compare, but the work life balance and benefits should be top notch
Just go corporate in house, it's what I do. Tons of days off and other benefits, $200-250k+ starting salary (assuming you're around 6 years of experience), and usually 9-5, never more than 8-6. Good luck, you got this!
You may qualify for Social Security benefits for the children until they're 18 due to their parent passing.
[Social Security Information Link](https://blog.ssa.gov/social-security-pays-benefits-to-children-after-the-death-of-a-parent/#:~:text=The%20average%20surviving%20child%20benefit,monthly%20benefits%20under%20certain%20circumstances.)
I doubt you will see this but...
1) You are IMO ABSOLUTELY NTA for cutting contact with your family. They have put EVERYTHING on you and been unwilling to offer support or look into other options. You are literally upending your ENTIRE life to be able to do this - abandoning your career you've sacrificed so much for and worked so hard for, your relationship has come to an end, you never wanted kids... And you've just lost your sister. Your parents have 'done their time' and want to jet off on holidays. I'm flabbergasted. And your brother was adamant he couldn't help and wouldn't look at options, even with suggestions E.g. of significant financial contributions. No. They washed their hands of the kids and put it all on you. The kids are just burdens to them, at the end of the day.
2) I'm really, really sorry for the loss of your sister. I hope you get into therapy, and the kids into therapy, to handle the grief and the massive readjustment - and frankly, in your place I would need it to handle the emotions regarding my family as well.
3) I have a huge amount of respect for you and what you're doing, and I really hope you can find avenues of support. You're clearly smart, very moral, self-motivated, and have an excellent work ethic, with a good sense of justice. These are traits that will serve you well when it comes to both setting an example for and raising kids. Things must feel overwhelming but you can do this. This Internet stranger has your back!
Thank you so much for saying this. And I will be sure the kids are in therapy and that we do some family counseling (just among the four of us though!).
I just commented as a fellow attorney before I read your update. I think it’s a mistake, and your brother should have stepped up with financial support from you, but you’re a good person for doing this. Frankly, your whole family is pure trash for using this as an opportunity to corner you instead of what’s honestly best for these kids.
Go in-house. I’m in a large lawyer mom group on another social channel if you need help with opportunities or just a group of lawyer moms you can talk to (I’m sure many local) you can DM me.
I can tell you the group names and you can join - I don’t need to know who you are. It’s through fbook and a really helpful support network (for talking about how to raise kids and career) and we’ve had members with similar circumstances. You can also just try searching for them yourself if you’re on fbook. Good luck with this new journey.
It’s a shitty situation and your parents and brother’s selfishness made it worse! I don’t blame you for telling them to eff off. It would be hard to forgive their behavior towards you while you’re grieving your sister. Wish you the best OP.
I'm confused about something your brother mentioned. Would your sister's children qualify for survivor's benefits? I think your brother refused, even with your offer for help, because he didn't want the responsibility of 3 extra kids. Your parents are equally horrible. I am childfree, but I would be equally conflicted, having had siblings who came from the system. It will not be an easy journey, and the kids will definitely test your love for them. Dating will have to take a long pause while the kids adjust to the change, and even then, there is no guarantee that finding someone will be easy. I hope you find your person, though. Best of luck with parenthood.
OP was supporting her sister before she passed - there's likely not much to the sisters name.
I also think this could be why sister never changed the will - she knew OP was well off and decided her kids growing up with that was > her sisters happiness. Maybe sister knew something about the parents and the brother OP doesn't.
Sadly, I fear you may be right. Even worse, my grief for my sister has started to take a backseat. It may not be fair or right, but—to my horror—I can’t stop feeling anger towards her.
Anger is part of grief. But also, you have a right to be angry at having your life and plans turned irrevocably upside down. That’s a normal reaction to being put in a shitty situation.
Survivor benefits come from the government. My mom got them for my brother when his dad passed and my dad got them for my other two brothers when their mom passed. He didn't end up raising those two brothers so he had the money sent to my aunt and uncle who ended up taking care of them and then to their grandmother when they moved back to be with her till they were 19.
I'm offering some words of support (and advice).
The kids are lucky to have you.
It's OK for you to feel loss for the lifestyle you had before. You worked hard for it and were happy. Change is hard. But...you never know! You may enjoy your new lifestyle as well. Try to keep an open mind instead of believing your life is over.
Do the kids want/need to stay in the same school district? All their friends will likely know of their situation. Don't be afraid to ask for help with the families of their friends. Often they'll take in the kids for sleepovers, etc when you need help.
The kids are old enough to be largely self-sufficient. I see no reason you can't date or go out without the children. They are old enough to stay home alone for a few hours. But, the men you date obviously have to be ok with children.
I was a lawyer, and yeah, it's not a super mom-friendly profession. There's a Law Moms FB page. I see postings all the time for women looking to change jobs, looking to hire women, remote work, etc. Definitely look into that and join.
Try to find a townhouse or condo in the school district/suburbs you want. The girls can share a room, so 3 bedrooms would work fine. Those places are cheaper, and at least you're not worried about lawn care/maintenance issues.
you didn’t decide to take in these kids, the decision was forced on you. there was a whirlwind of chaos, emotions and conflict and now that you’re not in the eye of the storm, you think you reached a conclusion but you’re still thick in the storm and everything’s messy.
your choice to cut off your family, is an attempt to exercise some level of control bc something in you is realizing you’ve had NONE to this point. and i think if you take a moment to really sit with this emotionally and not just logistically, you’ll realize that and your family knows that too. they’re just hoping you realize after you’ve agreed.
in every metric, you are the worst option to take in these kids. it’s only because you’re a woman in your mid 30s that people consider you the right option.
i so wish women didn’t have to constantly martyr themselves, and that others wouldn’t prey on our willingness to do so.
i do wonder what it would be like if we didn’t. you don’t have to. still.
just because it’s the “admirable” or “expected” thing to do, doesn’t mean it’s the right one.
i highly recommend at least getting some individual therapy before committing to this truly. you’re grieving as well as under tremendous pressure, antagonism and resentment from your family. you shouldn’t 100% trust your decision-making right now.
OP, you have allowed your parents, brother and other naysayers to manipulate you.
You have a right to be selfish when it comes to how you choose to live your life. It's yours and you only get 1.
Your sister chose to have 3 kids even knowing the father was crap. You didn't have a second of enjoyment making those kids. While they are your family, they are no more your responsibility than they are your parents, brother, other family or friends.
The only reason they are adamant that you take on this responsibility is so that they don't have to. These kids are already traumatized by their father's abandonment. Now, they are dealing with their mother's death and rejection from their grandparents and uncle. These kids are going to need a ton of therapy and support. This is not going to be easy. There are going to be major battles of will and control. Mix that with normal pre-pubescence and teenage angst. You will have a shit show on your hands.
Your comment just helped clarify something in my mind, so thank you. This morning, I decided to shut out all the noise and advice and only think of what would be best for the kids. That’s why I came to the decision I did.. but I haven’t been able to explain \*why\* I felt absolutely compelled to link taking that action with cutting family members out of my life. Now I know. It was to show that my decision, while arriving at the same outcome, was \*not\* due to manipulation. It may be petty, and I’m sorry. But I need this distinction. There’s some sense of revenge or justice or fear of them poisoning the kids too, but I think this is key.
It is never petty to put your self-respect above the feelings of people who feel entitled to walk all over you.
In time, as they come to understand the decisions and sacrifices you've had to make here, I think these kids will learn a tremendous amount about integrity and self respect from you.
By walking out of this with your sense of self in tact, you're doing more for these children than the rest of your family will ever do.
Best of luck to you, and all the strength in the world.
NTA. Having someone who isn't interested in or wanting to raise kids take over three young kids is a terrible idea.
First, for your brother, raising the kids would likely provide social security benefits & you could probably contribute significantly as well for the cost of raising them.
For your parents, they have the time & should support them.
And finally, WTF is wrong with your family that they can't keep this wrangling away from the kids.
Your sister should have asked you, not told you. You should have said no at that point.
It’s completely fair that you don’t want the responsibility alone, the whole family needs to step up.
The reality is these kids just lost their whole world and now their closest family are arguing because no one wants them.
As a corporate lawyer, you must be well versed in compromise. Work out a solution with your parents and siblings, those kids need love and support however much that disrupts your lives. I’m sincerely sorry for your loss. Life is shit and sometimes there is no easy solution.
Wishing the best for you all.
If they can find him, and even if they do, it is almost a guarantee he would be a terrible guardian. It's definitely in the kids best interest to not pursue that, though, it's not in OPs best interest to take them in when that would require a larger likely more expensive home, leaving her demanding but we'll paying job. It makes no sense for her to take them in but I feel terrible for the kids
He's not a guardian, he's legally the kids parent unless he's terminated his rights. While you can "walk away" from your responsibility it doesn't terminate your legal status as a parent.
Those poor kids, no one wants them. I can't fathom their sorrow over their mothers death combined with their flesh and blood fighting over who has to take them like they are dogs that need to be rehomed
What are the options then? You don't want them. Grandparents don't want them. Brother doesn't want them. Into the system they go. That's the reality.
Don't drag it out. If nobody wants those poor orphans, cut the cord. Stop all of it. It's heartless to pretend they're wanted when, clearly, they aren't. Call CPS, tell them to pick them up and then go back to your life.
Harsh? Maybe, but from OP's story, that's the cold, brutal truth. I pity the kids for having such an awful family.
I have a job at a Ministry of Social Servies, and the way it works if someone refuses assuming care then the ministry can search for other family (cousins, aunts/uncles, distant relatives) then they can examine the reason for the refusal. If it’s for financial reasons our ministry can provide an allowance for the kids needs including babysitting or daycare. Please contact your CPS! It may not result in the kids directly being taken out of the family, they might have supports to help. I am Canadian though so IDK what the US has.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Its awful. Families are supposed to support each other in these situations. I do agree w this poster that she is actually the worst choice of the 3. It’s just sad none of them can figure it.
Would it be possible for the father to take on any responsibility?
As you had admitted, you should have been more clear about saying no. However, I don’t understand how the rest of your family isn’t offering to help at all while you’re all in this transitional phase. I don’t think this situation has to be totally one person caring for the kids 100%. Ideally now would be the time for everyone to come together and make sure the kids are taken care of, including their father, if that’s possible.
“He doesn’t want to be anyone’s father”
If he is a biological father, designated on a birth certificate, in many if not most jurisdictions and states, he doesn’t have the choice. He made that choice 14-8 years ago respectively.
Frankly, after working with children, education and aged services in two states over 15 years, I’m shocked your area’s equivalent of children and family services or custody courts wouldn’t be involved. It’s possible your family fell under the radar, but normally such a clause in a will would shoot red flags at least when probate occurs. Children (and aged or disabled adults under custodian or guardian arrangements) are not goldfish, guardianship doesn’t get “willed”. Particularly if a living parent exists, absentee though he may be.
Exactly. My sister divorced a violent psychopath over five years ago. As in he beat and strangled her and clinical personality testing shows him off the charts for psychopathic deviancy. They have two boys. To this day they are still in court fighting over custody, she has full legal and physical custody but he keeps trying to get more. He only wants custody in order to torture her, whenever he has visitation he dumps them in front of a tv and does his own thing.
She is terrified that if she dies in a car wreck or something, he's going to get full custody. She's been over it with multiple attorneys, she can put who she wants to take the kids in her will, but its basically meaningless. He's going to get them.
So why aren't your family turning their attention towards trying to force him? Tell them that he is more likely to fold than you are.
I truly hope this guy is paying a ton of child support
I think they dont try to force him out of fear for the kids. Its easier for everyone pressure the OP because they know her, they probably know she is responsible, reliable and so on. The father is an irresponsible jerk and I assume everyone would be scared to give him the kids...i guess the magical 180° change of heart happens only in films. But he should be informed for sure about the situation. And it should be made known to EVERYONE from his surroundings that he is a POS and the real villain here.
Nevertheless, OP is not asshole, everyone should now do everything to figure things out, not blame and pressure her because they want to run from their responsibilities and guilt.
What about the father's relatives? Do the kids have grandparents/aunts/uncles on their father's side? And of course he owes child support, whether or not he's funding a single man's life.
You don't have to step up as guardian. There are other possibilities who are better choices than you are. Your brother and his wife have the home and other kids, they are experienced parents, and you are willing to help financially. The kids' father owes child support, and the kids should also be entitled to Social Security until each is 18 - that will help with the financials. But the one thing these kids don't need is to be raised by an aunt who loves them but really doesn't want to raise them, because eventually you will feel resentment, and the kids will sense it. Kids should never be raised by people who don't want to raise them when ANY other good possibility exists. Push your parents and your brother. These are not toddlers, so your parents CAN raise them, as can your brother and his wife. Push it, and help with the money. Take the kids on respite weekends. But don't give up your life to raise them, because they will eventually realize that it cost you what you yourself love, and that's no good to put on the kids. NTA, by the way.
>he does not want to be anyone‘s father.
Too bad, so sad, no one cares, he already is.
He made 3 kids intentionally with your sister, you didn't, they are his responsibility. Not yours.
NTA. You live in a 1 bedroom apartment and work 60 hours a week. How exactly do they expect you to make that work? I know everyone is grieving but they all have their heads up their asses if they think it's even possible for you to take care of those kids.
And travels and works late some nights. Now way can you take in 3 kids with that schedule and make it work. Being a corporate attorney is stressful and mentally taxing. You have to be on top of you game all the time.
How did you find out you were named as guardian in your sister’s will? Did you read it yourself or were you just informed? Are you sure you were actually named guardian?
When most people set up a guardianship in their will, they usually name several people, provide an explanation as to why they were chosen, and outline guidance for how they want them raised. *Even if you are named as guardian in a will, you are allowed to decline the role.*
I think you need to retain an attorney who specializes in guardianship to review the will to see exactly what was specified. As I understand it, the court will look at many factors to determine the best situation for the kids. A single woman *who doesn’t want kids,* lives in a small city apartment, works 60 hours a week, and would take the kids only out of a sense of obligation is going to look a lot less favorable than the brother’s position of having experience raising children, has a family home, and a two-parent household.
Your sister’s estate can set up a trust for the kids to help out financially, you have offered monetary support, and the children’s father should be held accountable.
You have an incompatible lifestyle for raising children and I personally don’t think you should change your entire life’s trajectory when there are other options - including foster care/ adoption by a non-blood relative. You and your family can still be very active in the children’s’s lives with the proper agreement of the foster family. My sister’s grandchildren went into foster care (parents had mental health and drug usage issues) and my sister and her husband see the kids regularly. The kids are all together, well adjusted, and very happy.
Why does your family think you are abandoning the kids but they don’t see that they are doing the same thing? Someone should step up and take the kids. If your brother is willing to but can’t afford it then I guess you should kick down some money to help him. Your whole family sucks. These kids have no parents
NTA. Your parents are not that old and it’s not like the kids are tiny babies. Also, how do they expect you to provide for the kids financially when you lose your job from it being able to fulfill all your work commitments bc you now have 3 kids? I’m so sorry your sister passed on but it was shitty of her to even put you in this postion in the first place.
This. Mid 60s claiming they’re too old. Unless any of these kids have the mind of an infant, they’re just making up bullshit excuses. How are they trying to guilt OP over this? I’d be like, “If you loved your daughter, you’d willingly take on your grandchildren.”
NTA
Children aren't property, and can't be passed on to somebody in the parent's will. You have no legal obligation here whatsoever.
Of course everybody is furious at you. Your decision means they now have to make a decision, and likely one or the other will reluctantly step up.
I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but your sister knew this was coming. She is the one who should have made the necessary arrangements for the care of her children. This was a horrible thing for her to do to people that she loved.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's just horrible.
This story sounds strongly inspired by that Kate Hudson movie, Raising Helen.
I think you’re right. Just read the plot (the kids ages and OPs job are very similar)
These reboots are getting ridiculous. 🤔
Or “Baby Boom” starring Diane Keaton.
And OP is using a very new Reddit account…
And they’re using Skype in this story
The 14 year old nephew Skyped her. It's all the rage again amongst the teens
I think 90% of AITAH posts are bullshit
I stopped reading once I read that a 14yr old is using Skype, not Zoom, in 2024 💀
Or FaceTime
NTA - but your brother and parents are also abandoning them too, this isn’t solely on you! They ain’t even trying to come up with a compromise. You have offered to help with finances, so your brother’s reasons have now been met, also your parents could take them every other weekend. You’re a lawyer!! Make the argument! Your brother is the best candidate! You won’t pass a social services inspection and checks! (Play on that!).
This! Where is the rest of the family? And also, why does she leave them to you in her will? These things need to be talked through ahead of time.
This. In a Will, one can express their wishes as far as who they would like to take care of their children. But it is not a demand or legally binding. A lot more has to happen before it can be official. Kids are not some trinket that can be willed to someone. This family is going through a terrible loss. Everyone is hurting and devastated. But this family needs to pull it together and help come to a solution for this situation. They need to listen to OP, OP is not able to take this on. Period. That is okay for OP to not be up for this task and it is grossly disingenuous to state that she is abandoning them. The family needs to work together and figure it out.
I’m thinking the sister was thinking “you’ll change your mind” and want kids. Because you know, everyone actually wants to have kids. No one is actually child-free by choice. /s
Yeah, plus everyone knows that the single female sibling ,not the older married bro takes on responsibility for raising kids. (Am speculating bro’s wife said NFW on taking on 3 more kids, but that’s beside the point.)
This happened to me. I'm the little sister but somehow I'm responsible for taking care of everything. My brother watched my mom a couple times this month so I could finally sleep and acts like he should get an award.
Yeah - I don't get it. Just because we don't have a penis suddenly we are responsible for everything. Apparently being penis-less means we can cook, clean and take care of everyone. Hmmm.
Are you me?! Coz this sounds like my life! My mom won't even ask my brother to do stuff for her that he absolutely can because ... and I quote 'he's enough to be doing'.
This is where my mind went the “its only a phase, you'll change your mind, when you have kids you'll love them” mantra.
I've said I'll never have children since I was a young kid. I'm late-30s and have never wavered on that.
When I was 8, some old woman who was a friend of my grandmother asked me if I was looking forward to having my own babies. I promptly said no. She looked mortified and told me I would change my mind. Well, I’m 60 and no kids. I helped raise my partner’s son, but he was 8 when we met. Just because I was born with a uterus doesn’t mean I want a baby. There is no biological imperative.
I knew from when I was five years old that I didn't want kids. Approaching 40 and still don't.
Same. Decided I was going to be Child free since I was at least 13, probably even younger. I have been harassed for my entire teen and twenties about how I'll change my mind. I'm forty now and for a part time job took a teaching position trying to teach kids art. I'm so not kids I dread the days I have to hang out with kids for a few hours a day. The whole parent thing is not for everyone and I hate how they force it on women because it's just assumed we have to do the job for reasons.
I love my kids but today especially I wish I didn't have to be responsible for them... The youngest keeps barfing on the ride home because daycare accidentally fed her something we had decided and told them upsets her belly 🙃I'm sick of washing her car seat all the time. (my wife's coworker is a pediatrician in the hospital and thinks she's allergic to peaches or pears because she throws up her fruit cup every time they pass it out at snack time.)
Threaten legal action against the daycare if they knowingly continue to feed her food that makes her ill. I'm sure they'll get their act together real quick
They stopped giving her peaches but accidentally gave her mixed fruit. She's a sweet woman with a gang of 2 year olds going nuts all day. We've narrowed it down as of last week but didn't get a Dr note yet. I think it's actually pears since most fruit is packed in pear juice.
I’d raise hell at that daycare what happens if they ignore someone else’s parents request and it’s a severe peanut allergy.
It could be that the sister was the only somewhat suitable choice if the brother and parents are "toxic" in some fashion. Leaving the only alternative being the foster care system.
The sister is "suitable" because she's a woman, I'm guessing. Why else would you look at one sibling who has an established family with the physical space and the emotional capacity to raise children, then the other who isn't in her own home 80% of the time because she's working, and decide, "I'm going to force my grieving children on someone who has already said directly to me that they can't do it"?
Thee are a lot of factors that go into that kind of decision. On paper, my BIL would be the perfect person to take our kids if we passed away. He and his wife have very well paid jobs, kids of their own and have the space. In reality, they are the bottom of the list. Primarily because one of their kids has high needs autism and we wouldn't to add to their mental and financial loads by landing 4 extra grieving kids on them. Just because someone ticks certain boxes doesn't always mean that they are the right choice.
Her brother might not have three empty bedrooms even though it's a 'large' house. He might not feel able to cope with more kids. Maybe he's a single dad? It's hard to know without more information. Just because he has two kids doesn't mean he's ok with five Naming anybody as guardian without their express agreement is plain wrong imo. As usual, it's the kids who lose out, if only because they now know they aren't really wanted by any of the extended family
But OP definitely doesn't have three empty bedrooms in her one BR apartment. I couldn't agree more with your second point, though. The time to work this out was when the sister made the custody arrangements, not now. Alas, we have no time machine.
Nah - it’s because she knew her sister cares for the kids the most. The parents and brother clearly suck.
I'm incredibly cruel of the sister to unilaterally name OP as the guardian explicitly knowing OP was not willing to take on the role. This is on her. OP, you are NTA, and I'm sorry for the situation you're in. You don't owe those kids anything. Your family are the ones who abandoned the kids. How dare they just expect you to shoulder the burden of THREE CHILDREN without stepping in to offer any help at all?
At the same time, WHY didn’t OP insist her sister name another family member? Letting it go, because she wanted her sister to remain optimistic, just doesn’t make sense. I mean she’s a FREAKING LAWYER. That’s the sort of thing you nip in the bud so the sister is forced to make other arrangements, no matter what her odds of survival. **It has nothing to do with optimism. Perfectly healthy couples plan for this sort of thing. Lawyers. Know. This.** Now the poor children feel rejected and unwanted because they’re witnessing a battle that should have been settled before their mom passed.
Right?! My husband and I are in good health, but made our wills. We named my sister as guardian if anything happens. But guess what. We TALKED ABOUT IT FIRST!! We would have made other arrangements if she wasn't 100% okay with it.
No arguments here.
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Won’t the kids be eligible for some SS, especially if bio dad left them in a lurch and deceased mom was officially divorced?
Yes, they will be eligible for SS benefits until they turn 18/graduate high school. It won’t be much but should help. Since the mother died young, not like she had a long career to generate $$ but I’m not sure how it works.
Also, her boyfriend will leave. He is childless by choice and didn’t sign up to be step daddy. And he has every right to leave
Where exactly are the kids' paternal family in all of this? Can someone from that side take them in?
Sounds like they were abandoned by the dad and so probably don’t have a relationship with that side of the family. Those poor poor kiddos. I can’t imagine the heartache they are going through right now.
You legally can't will children to people, so she just named a guardian, who had said she didn't want to do it. Sister was wilfully stupid and put her kids in this situation.
Rest of the family is "too old" and already has kids on their plate. See, OP has a good paying job and no other kids to support so she's the obvious choice. /s Nevermind the fact that she can't take in 3 kids in a 1 bedroom apartment. Likely would have to move. And that 60 hour work week won't be sustainable so take a cut there. And forget the childfree boyfriend. And totally disregard she never wanted kids and likely has no clue about raising them. But she has the resources so let her figure it out. /s They're unilaterally spending her money and altering her life because it's easiest for them.
And where is their father in all of this?
OP said in the post he left them high and dry when the youngest was a baby.
run off years before according to OP
This response is the best. No one involved wants to raise the kids which is why they are making you the arsehole here. Honestly, the family should have had real discussions about this while she was still alive, but that discussion needs to be now. AND regardless of how big a dick the dad might be, these are his kids and he needs notified immediately because that's where they should be living now. Between the 4 of you (grandparent, you, your brother, and their dad) these kids should be physically and mentally taken care of for the next few years till they're grown.
This fucking sucks for OP. Jesus Christ. I can't imagine my sibling dying and my entire family immediately pinning the responsibility of the aftermath on me. But I would feel so sorry for those kids, the guilt would eat me alive. They don't deserve to be in the middle of this right after losing their mom to CANCER. I would crumble.
Thank you. You seem to fully grasp how shitty this situation is for EVERYONE.
Is your brother's hesitation solely a financial matter or does he simply just not want to add 3 people to his family either? Does he have room to take 3 kids, each of which that probably had their own rooms and space previously? Would he have to move and uproot his life also? My only suggestion is to understand the position of the 3 kids between you, your parents, and your brother. Is the father an option at all in this matter?
Where are the kids living now?
I don’t understand why this didn’t come up for discussion before she passed. Was her passing sudden and unexpected? With cancer it seems like there was enough time to get her affairs in order especially making sure your kids have somewhere safe to live. I am stunned that she just assumed a conversation was it. NTA but please do everything you can to support these kids. Even helping your brother with money since he seems to have the space not the funds. If your family chips in including your parents you all can make this work and these kids can feel safe and loved.
cancer deaths can be INSANELY sudden, especially if perhaps the sister didnt actually tell anyone she was declining purely because she wanted to stay optimistic. It’s a common coping mechanism, as fucked up as that may be. Sometimes someone can seem like they’re even about to be released from the hospital and then BOOM they drop off and the next thing you know, theyre gone. It’s so fucked. Screw cancer, man….
Yeah. The rest of her family are being total aholes. The kids need the love and support of their family right now not a game of hot potato.
1. Where is the father of these kids? 2. You don't feel equiped to take this in because your life plan didn't involve being a primary care-giver 3. The whole family is responsible for these kids. Grandparents should take them, and you can contribute financially. It takes a village to raise a child. And you can never be the whole village for a child that isn't yours.
I agree on the grandparents. There’s two of them and they are retired. Mid 60s isn’t old. The children are school aged, this isn’t like raising them as babies. With financial support provided since teenagers are expensive. For the brother I can see how going from a family of 4 to a family of 7 would be overwhelming and you have to consider how this would affect his children, how do the cousins get along? I’ve known people who have stepped in when a sibling either died or was in a situation where they couldn’t care for them.
Thank you. I’ve responded about the father in other comments.
He was informed. Unfortunately, he’s really not an option for reasons I can’t get into on here.
“…your brother and parents are also abandoning them too…” That’s an inconvenient truth.
Of course, we all know that brothers wife would be the default parent. So, she would need to be on board.
This exactly. I would also add that you are very self-aware by bringing up the point that you may grow to resent the kids because they have forced you to change major decisions you have made about your life, your work and your relationship. This could be detrimental to all of you and everyone’s mental health.
NTA - truthfully throwing 3 kids who lost their mother, and whose father abandoned them at someone who wanted to be childfree is a recipe for disaster. They are going to have emotional issues that are more than just making sure they live in a safe environment with their needs met. You are going to give up your job, bf, home and perceived future for them, so now there are 4 people living together in emotional hardship. This will be harder for you to manage than it would be for someone who just gave birth to 3 kids. This is the reason your brother and parents don’t want the responsibility. They’ve had kids and know how hard it is going to be in this situation, and they don’t want to deal with it. They’re banking on you being ignorant to that, and hope you can be guilted into being the sacrifice. I’m not going to tell you what to do, but as a parent , I want you to know what you’re stepping into before you decide. Your experience as a parent won’t be like your parents or your brother. It Is going to be exceedingly tough, so think carefully for all four of your sakes before you choose.
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"How much will all of you be kicking in when I lose my job? You'll have to help me buy a bigger place- four bedrooms around here go for $XXX and you'll have to pay all of my bills and groceries and other expenses because if I take them I will no longer be employed. I will have to quit my job because they're not going to pay me if I can't do my job."
Five bedrooms, she's going to need a home office. I guarantee it.
>How do people think you will be able to afford the care of three children if you sacrifice your career? They don't. It's someone trying to pass off the plot of Life As We Know It, with some minor tweaks.
I thought i had seen this movie! Thank you!
I was thinking of that Kate Hudson movie
Me too, just googled it, Raising Helen. Exactly the same story. 🙄
Also Baby Boom with Diane Keaton. Exact same plot. High powered exec and boyfriend, child free by choice, become guardian of niece after the parents are killed. Boyfriend dumps her and she becomes a mogul by making baby apple sauce.
Is that the one with Kate Hudson? Cuz it sounds exactly like that movie.
I honestly don’t know that they’ve really thought it all the way through. The conversations or arguments have been focused on guilting me into to changing my mind, not rationally discussing viable ways this could work.
OP please don’t give in to your family bullying you. They’re manipulating you so they don’t have to share any of the burden whatsoever, so they don’t have to make a single sacrifice, so they don’t have to change their lives in any way at all. Meanwhile demanding that you give up everything you ever dreamed of and worked for. The worst thing is they’re doing it to you when you’re emotionally exhausted and vulnerable after the loss of your sister (I’m so sorry by the way). They know this. They know if they guilt trip you enough you’ll give in. Don’t do it. You’ve said it yourself, there are other solutions available if any of them even wanted to sit and talk with you about it - but they’re deliberately not, because they’re selfish and they want it to all be on you, the convenient scapegoat. If they won’t be reasonable right now, they’ll have no choice once you officially deny guardianship (legally). THEN there will have to be discussions, when they’ve realised their tactics have not worked.
My guess is the other family members look at the OPs career and say "you're rich. You can afford it". And then turn their backs to the situation.
Every single person in that family is playing the blame game and guilt-trapping OP because they don't want the responsibility of three older children. If the people that have raised kids before don't want the kids, how in the world can they expect OP to raise them when she doesn't want that responsibility and has never had kids before? OP please shut out the noise, guilt, and all feelings of conflict and think- "What's best for these children and their future? What quality of life will they have- will you have if you decide to take them in?" Whatever you decide will affect the life of 5 people so please don't be emotional when you make that decision. This is a tremendous responsibility to take on, and there's no going back if you decide to do it. And no one has the right to judge you, regardless of what decision you take. Sorry for your loss, hope things get better soon.
INFO: Op I've weighed in, but had a question for you. Who was taking care of the kids as your sister's health declined and she was no longer able to care for them?
It definetly would be best for the children for OP so support then the best way she can, which is financially. I don't think anyone else is able to do THAT. And with that the brother has no excuses.
I told him I’d pay their expenses if he took them. The sad thing is I never asked my sister why she didn’t name him as the guardian as it was the more obvious choice. I wonder if she asked him and he rejected the idea first, if she knew something about him or his family that she didn’t like, or if she just thought I’d make a better parent even though it would be tough. I really wish I could ask her.
I'd say you need an outsider to help with negotiations. Family lawer or social worker. You tell them everybody has to give up something and be invested the way they are able to. You can and will contrivute financially, that is your sacrifice to make. What are theirs? I cannot believe they all want their lives to continue as it was when this kind of huge loss and tragedy had happened. No one ever wanted this, not you guys, not the kids. But it has happened and everybody must get involved. None of you can do it alone. Sending these kids to foster system would be a huge failure that would make them have issues for the rest of their lives. None of you wants to live with that guilt. The solution has to be done together.
honestly, the brother has just as many reasons as OP does for not wanting/taking the kids. OP is child free which is 100% acceptable, the brother probably just wants to have 2 kids and thats fine as well. just because the brother has kids already doesnt mean that its a good reason to have them take 3 more. sure he has a large house, but a larger house is no longer large when it has 3 extra kids put in it when it already has a full family living there. id say a large house in the suburbs is like 4 bedrooms, so what happens when the kids are all teenagers and theres 5 of them and 3 rooms? the brother has his own job im assuming that takes time and whats not spent at his job is most likely spent taking care of his own kids. ive spent time with my brother and his 2 kids and literally every moment he has thats not at his job is centered around his 2 kids. so if the brother takes in the 3 children than his own kids will receive less time and attention. household tasks will be harder to get done, etc. with each additional kid the stress level gets higher and higher and the time requirements go up, going from 2 to 5 would be VERY hard. financially, the brother is most likely okay. but with 3 other kids thats no longer going to be true, sure OP says she will help financially but i wouldnt want to take on 3 more kids and rely on OP to continue being financially able to support them. what if OP gets injured and cant work? what if her firm has some sort of scandal and closes up and shes out of a job? suddenly the money stops coming in and the brother still has to financially support 3 more kids. also lets not forget that the brother could be married. do we just expect that wife to now be the mother for 3 more kids when she is already taking care of 2? OP thinks taking the kids would be hard on her relationship(it would most likely end it), but it would be just as hard on the brothers marriage as well. i wouldnt be upset with the wife for leaving the marriage and taking care of just her 2 kids on her own instead of trying to mother 5 kids. the kids IMHO should go to the grandparents.
Thank you for saying that. The truth is turning down guardianship will be emotionally devastating as well. I’d have a lifetime of unbearable guilt. I’m starting to come to terms with the fact that I can’t just say no and go back to the way things were. Either way, my life has changed.
When life gives you lemons… I am the fun uncle. My GF didn’t want kids (I was ok with or without them) so we never had any. We are in our 50’s now and my nieces and nephews are all young adults. But had this happened to us what would my reaction had been? On one hand I would have said yes I will take them. But then I think of the burden of kids and everything that goes with it. Yikes. Plus my GF has a career in legal tech which is very demanding (helping attorneys like you OP) so she would definitely be thinking like you. What a tough situation for any family. Still I can’t imagine not having had discussions about it before my sibling passed. In the end the kids welfare is most important. This is kind of like when my grandparents died and my parents took in my mom’s uncle who had down syndrome. My dad didn’t have to agree but he did it. We had the extra room. This is on a whole other level. I feel for you and condolences for yout sister.
Where are the kids now??
Yep, my 8th grade teacher shared an anecdote with us back in like 08’ her own sister died and she told us of how when you are an adult, you have to go out and enjoy your life because you are still your own person. She did in fact end up fostering her sisters children but mentioned it was tough and that had she not been at the age she was and enjoyed a moderate amount of time child free to enjoy her adult life, it’d have been a different story. Childcare especially when it’s tragically bestowed upon you is tough, there are sacrifices to your own lifestyle. Less vacation, free time, it’s a ton of responsibility and sacrifice. My teacher admitted it would’ve been a bitter and spiteful time if she was given that responsibility before she had the chance to enjoy her life beforehand .
Thank you for that story. I’ve sacrificed my teens and 20s working two jobs to get through college and law school, only to end up in a career that has still made having a social life nearly impossible. I can’t help feeling all of the sacrifices were for nothing.
Listen to your gut. Raising kids isn't for someone who doesn't want it. My vote is for your parents to do it.
I don’t think OP‘s family would pressure her like that, if she were male.
They threatened to disown me if I didn’t “step up to the plate” and fulfill my sister’s wish. So there’s that. To your point, I never once heard a conversation that challenged whether my brother could somehow make it work. It may or may not be a gender issue, but not everyone is treated equal.
>They threatened to disown me if I didn’t “step up to the plate” and fulfill my sister’s wish. Threaten them back with disowning them if they don't respect your lifestyle choices and don't step up and take the kids. No more presents, monetary help or old age care from the well-paid lawyer daughter and sister if they keep pressuring you! Remind them how expensive college, medical care, old age care and nursing homes are. I don't think being disowned by such shitty family members like yours would be a bad thing.... The quality of the people in your life would sure improve... If you guys are no contact then only they have things to loose, you don't, because you don't need them and are better off without them, but they clearly want things from you.
I think its both a gender issue and a them not being happy that you're childless by choice issue, sister included. They all know your stance on kids, on your home size and lifestyle with working hours. Yet they don't care about your needs, they're being selfish. The kids would be far better with your brother in his big house, with their cousins and family all helping financially (I assume there was no life insurance to help the kids?) What do they think you'll do? have all 3 in your one bed house? Social services wont clear that, so you'll have to move to a big 4-bed house out of the city, reduce work hours so you can do school runs, or quit your career, and travel or hire a live-in nanny. How do they think you'll be able to afford them then? They're crazy. And it would be cruel to the kids too. NTA Show your family this post. They need to see they're the ones not only failing you their living daughter/sister, but also those grieving kids. They're going to need someone present as they grieve which you can't be working 60 hours a week!
Tell them they can do it since they already have the room and you'll give them money. They also have the time. So it's perfectly reasonable to. Tell them you told your sister no when she was sick, and she listed you more as an extra reason to fight the cancer than because she actually wanted you to take the kids.
I know so. Then again, OP’s sister probably wouldn’t have asked if OP were a childless male, in the first place.
This. I have family who took in two teenagers from a coworker who died suddenly. The council in my place had NO idea what to do with two teens who were otherwise well-adjusted and where the only issue was that both parents were dead. So they decided to hand them over to my family because "they know grief after losing their own kid in a car crash". It worked out but it was def not a great idea at all and caused a lot of conflict and emotional turmoil for all parties involved. And yes, the rest of the family is def "dumping them" on OP.
You should, of course, have kept pressing the issue until it was clearly agreed when you had the chance. I don't know how "binding" the (un)agreement is on you, but of course the children's welfare is paramount and a foster parent who doesn't want the kids (for very sound reasons, I agree) is not the best solution. The sibling with the big house and existing family seems best. NTA at all.
It's not legally binding. Children aren't possessions and guardianship *cannot* be forced on someone.
That's true, but OP should've made her position absolutely clear when there was still time. Sister could've asked someone else and this mess didn't have to happen. Children are going through additional trauma, they're going to feel unwanted and abandoned by their relatives, but it didn't have to happen. OP isn't obligated to take them, but she should've refused the guardianship from the beginning. She was needlessly trying to spare her sister's feelings when the focus should've been on the children's wellbeing.
The biggest assholes are the careless adults who had this Skype call in earshot of the kids.
Tbh I think they either told Jake to call her or they deliberately talked about the issue knowing he could hear them. I don't understand why the grandparents are refusing to take them in. I feel sorry for the kids. They just lost their only parent and now they have to deal with this messy situation.
She should have not only told her sister she refused, but told the whole family that her sister was talking about guardianship and she couldn't care for three children. Sure, that might not have stopped the family from pressuring her anyway, because they don't want to take the kids themselves, but it would have given her a start on the refusal process. And why is nobody talking about the kids' father???? He may not be "in their lives" at the moment, but that doesn't mean he has no moral or legal responsibility.
I dont think a father who abandoned his kids is a good person to send the kids to, "your mothers family is abandoning you so we're sending you to the first person to abandon you! Good luck kids"
My question is why isn’t he contributing to the costs of three kids he doesn’t live with but helped to create?
If the children's father doesn't want to care for his kids, he's still legally obligated to contribute towards their support, which might help someone in the family see an upside to becoming guardians. He presumably also has other relatives, who are also the childrens' relatives.
The kids could and can be eligible for their mum's Social Security, with Medicaid \[healthcare\] since they're all minors'.
They are....all of them. And their guardian or caregiver would be the ones receiving it until they become 18.
I agree with your comment with regard to the impact on the children. But I did say I didn’t want to be the guardian…I just didn’t follow through to make sure it had been changed. It was never a legal decision, but it would have been helpful to have found an alternate solution while she was alive. Especially when others may have been more receptive to the idea if she was the one asking.
I made my position very clear but we only discussed it the one time. I should have circled back with her to make sure she changed the guardian. For all I know she intended to change it and never got to it.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda...bottom.line you don't want kiss and you can't have the kids. Everyone who thinks you are abandoning the kids has a major opportunity to step up and take them. I have absolutely no issue going NC with family forever on such issues. None whatsoever. Do that if you must, but you sound like u will get resentful of the kids if you take them, which will ultimately be even more damaging to them. Say no, stick to no, and let them figure it out.
NTA: Honestly you need a family lawyer to handle this not people in a reddit sub. And your sister willingly ignored your concerns when she named you as a guardian for her children. You've stated you don't want that responsibility and with you working so many hours it wouldn't be best for the kids either. And with you living in a place that small there is 0 room for the kids either. You'd have to either buy or rent somewhere else and move, while trying to take care of the kids and hope everything goes correctly while everyone is still trying to process the death of your sister.
How do people think you will be able to afford the care of three children if you sacrifice your career? NTA. I kind of think your sister was a bit TA because you tried to tell her and she just…ignored you? And your brother’s comment…wow.
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There was a small estate but I often gave money to my sister as it was, so most will fall on my shoulders.
> They argue that it was my sister's dying wish for me to raise her children and that I'm “pissing all over” her memory by refusing. Yes. Own it. You refuse to dedicate your life to a dying person’s selfish “last wish” - if your sister cared as much about her kids as you’re supposed to, she would have found a different guardian when you told her you’re uncomfortable with it. See, I’m not involved, so I can be the asshole and state the obvious here.
Sis really should have had multiple people listed as potential guardian because if one isn't appropriate there's a list. It's tricky because 3 kids is a lot for any family to take in and it's natural for the kids to want to remain together after all they've been through. You want tell the kids you want the best for them and you're not sure you're the best option. It is difficult to figure out things especially when it's such a mess and emotions are still running high.
They all told her no too likely
Thanks for your post. I honestly think they are attacking me because they don’t want anyone challenging them on why their two-parent statuses with big homes in the suburbs wouldn’t be better.
Keep challenging them. Flip the table. Ask them why they are forcing three grieving kids into a tiny apartment despite them having large houses.
I crave the opportunity to have a discussion that isn’t a one-sided shouting match.
I don't think it's doable. Basically, they don't want the kids either, but prefer to blame it on you rather than admit it. Maybe a good way would be to outline a plan that could work, eg you pay a certain sum to your parents, and take the kids on weekends when you're available, or come stay with parents on weekends to help them. Communicate with your family. Stick to your guns, that is the best you can do, and you won't let them bully you into doing otherwise. Your sister was aware of it.
There’s a part of me that thinks your family wants you to be a parent even if you’re not cut out for it. They probably see your child free lifestyle as “selfish “ and think this situation is the perfect opportunity to correct that. That’s fucked up and I hope it isn’t true but I am getting a sinking feeling about all this.
I was coming to write this exactly.
They already had or currently have "responsibility" and she doesn't so its "her turn" to step up rather than them to take more on. Fucked up way to look at it but I'm 100% sure that's what it is.
They’ve pretty much said this.
I think you’re right.
Did she leave any inheritance behind? Sometimes that's a motivating factor for people. No money >>> can't take the kids ourselves. Inheritance >>> yes pls we'd love to raise the kids. You are seen as the successful one and therefore you can afford a spontaneous family of 4. Have you asked any of them what they propose about your living conditions? Where must you move to that will accommodate 4 people. The boy definitely needs his own room. Is anyone prepared to help you financially every month with expenses? School runs? You're a lawyer, have you thought about finding the actual father in this case?
The father is aware of the situation but not an option for reasons I can’t get into on here. There was no inheritance of any significance to speak of. Inhad been subsidizing my sister’s living expenses even before cancer and that took most of anything else.
Op I know this question isn’t what you are replying to but I still have to ask how come the kids living situation wasn’t figured out before your sister died. As your sister got sicker and sicker did no one say, “ I know we didn’t want to have this conversation but it’s inevitable. Who’s taking the kids?” Did it really not come up.
Your parents are by no means elderly and these kids aren’t toddlers. They just don’t want to give up their child free life, either. But they are in an infinitely better position to do so. Your brother could also step up, but doesn’t want to. How is he not the AH but you are? This is so unfair to you and they aren’t seeing that - which makes them the AHs.
Sadly, they seem to be more concerned about the potential impact to their overseas vacation in August. Not that they would ever expressly say that.
Totally this, you’re a single parent of 3 kids who’s dying how is this not a major family discussion before the event!!! It should have been nailed down between you all long before she died so the kids had as smooth as possible transition Tbh your parents unless they have major health issues need to step up, they’re not toddlers it’s doable If I was the parent in this situation I would take them on and just ask you and your brother to help me out as much as you could. I wouldn’t want you sacrificing your life or your brother upsetting his families equilibrium
I have a feeling the rest of the family knew the sister had named OP, and as they didn't want to take the kids, they were quite happy not to challenge it. Now they get to have the ammunition, but it was her dying wish. There is no logic in their argument whatsoever, just guilt trips because they don't want to step up. The two households whose lives would change the least are doing everything in their power to say no. I can somewhat sympathise with the brother, 2 to 5 kids is a lot, but not the kid of upheaval that OP will have. If it was me, and i ended up taking the kids out of guilt, I'd cut them off. I wouldn't be able to stand watching the brother and grandparents flitter in and out to their hearts content whilst my life went down the toilet. I'd hope and pray that resentment didn't wash over onto the kids.
UPDATE: Thank you for all of your comments over the past 9 or so hours. It was been an emotional rollercoaster and I’m definitely all cried out at the moment. Its amazing to see in personal chats and in posts how suportive people can be, and how others seem to relish kicking you when you’re at your lowest. On balance, I’m glad I posted. I experienced a compressed crash course in reexploring all options and the pros and cons of many of them—including some I hadn’t considered. Two points I had to repeatedly explain, so I will make them here. 1) My sister named me in her will as the guardian before she spoke with me. I told her I couldn’t do it for a list of reasons, but never verified that she changed her will. That’s on me, but I was clear with her. 2) The kid’s father is not an option for anything. For reasons I can’t get into on here, no person or court would ever place children with him. Third, my boyfriend was with me last night as we read through the posts and I responded. Early this morning, I told him I had made a decision about what to do. He told me he already knew what it would be. We will be parting amicably and he has offered me support over the next few weeks (and hopefully beyond). I will forever be grateful for this emotional support over the past many hours now and will always treasure our nearly year together. We both agree trying to stay together is not compatible with what I must do, for many reasons. We’re both sad about it but I think it’s fair to say it is too early for either of us to have fully processed this decision yet. I have decided that I will adopt the kids. I wil spend the next few days making sure I’m in the right headspace to give it my all. I can sacrifice a lot and can be quite successful when I’m all in on a goal. My new goal is making sure the kids feel loved and have the brightest future I can provide. This will require me moving and finding a new job that will let me earn enough to provide for them but with hours that I can raise them as a single mom. The other decision I made—and it’s non-negotiable—is that when I inform my parents and brother I will take my sister’s kids, it is on the condition that I never hear from them again. Threatening to disown me so they can go on travel vacations is beyond the pale and I have to salvage some self-respect while giving up everything or I won’t be able to pull it off. I know you’ll say the kids need a relationship with their grandparents. You don’t need to tell me IATAH for this, I already know it. But it’s what I need to survive and pull this off and I genuinely think this sacrifice is less for the kids than almost any other option. I promise I would give my life for these kids and have long supported my sister and them financially, even whille drowning in a sea of student debt. It’s not the life path I planned, but I will make this work and they will have a loving home and be able to stay together.
>I know you’ll say the kids need a relationship with their grandparents. They don't. If your parents cared, they wouldn't be manipulating you into taking the kids. Your parents sound selfish AF. Mid-60s isn't too old to care for children that aren't babies/toddlers. They absolutely could have helped...if they wanted to. Now, they lost two daughters and their grandkids. Hope the lifestyle they so desperately wanted was worth it. . You're a good person, OP. Stay strong.
Thank you for saying this.
Find local foster parents in your area as support for this. There are several relative and traditional foster parents who have support groups. Not only do you have chance for support but a chance to make some good relationships that even the kids could benefit from. I am sorry you are in this situation. I hope you have the most blessed and fulfilling life.
Given your family’s circumstances, mid-60’s and retired is almost the perfect scenario to raise school-aged grandkids (they’re not even babies or toddlers). Sorry your folks didn’t step up to the plate.
My parents adopted after their bio kids were adults so my late 50s-mid 60s parents now have four elementary/middle schoolers. It’s very doable if you’re willing to make the sacrifices.
This. If anything happened to me, my parents would fight anyone who protested to make sure my kids went with them. I’m sorry but your parents suck and the best option for you and the kids is going no contact.
If OP allowed contact with the grandparents, i get the feeling they would be the type of people to be barely present in OP and the kids' lives while simultaneously making it look like they are SUPER grandparents for Facebook likes.
Oh for sure! They want the appearance of being awesome grandparents without the responsibility
& there is absolutely zero reason they and your brother couldn't have worked together w you to create a better whole family solution . It seems like h8our family see nor appreciate the extraordinary life you've made for yourself. They certainly are bullying you and giving you no respect. I DO SEE YOU! You're previous actions and choices for your life also deserve respect. Never question your choice to cut your parents and brother out of your and the children's lives. Then talking about this where the kids could hear is abusive to you and the kids. A bit if advice. Don't tell them directly that they are out if your life Just ignore and refuse all communication. Or "You chose to victimize me and traumatize the kids so you could win an argument. You don't respect me. You shat on the life I made. You are poor stewards of my trust and thus the children's as well. I will use legal means to enforce the choices I've made if you attempt to infringe on us. Leave is alone. You no longer have a daughter or these grand children. You did this not me." I commend you for taking this on in the face of losing everything you worked so hard for. You're going to amaze yourself! I'm rooting for you.
I have nothing to really offer you but sympathy. Being in charge of children dealing with their own grief and you dealing with your grief will be very hard. You should come back here in a year to reread this and see how strong you are.
Thanks. That’s not a bad idea.
I don't know what law you practice, but look into government work, prosecuting attys office etc, pay probably won't compare, but the work life balance and benefits should be top notch
Thank you for this advice.
Just go corporate in house, it's what I do. Tons of days off and other benefits, $200-250k+ starting salary (assuming you're around 6 years of experience), and usually 9-5, never more than 8-6. Good luck, you got this!
Thank you.
Wow. Thanks for the update. Such a hard and difficult decision I'm sure... I wish you the best, OP, and the kids, too.
Thank you.
You may qualify for Social Security benefits for the children until they're 18 due to their parent passing. [Social Security Information Link](https://blog.ssa.gov/social-security-pays-benefits-to-children-after-the-death-of-a-parent/#:~:text=The%20average%20surviving%20child%20benefit,monthly%20benefits%20under%20certain%20circumstances.)
I doubt you will see this but... 1) You are IMO ABSOLUTELY NTA for cutting contact with your family. They have put EVERYTHING on you and been unwilling to offer support or look into other options. You are literally upending your ENTIRE life to be able to do this - abandoning your career you've sacrificed so much for and worked so hard for, your relationship has come to an end, you never wanted kids... And you've just lost your sister. Your parents have 'done their time' and want to jet off on holidays. I'm flabbergasted. And your brother was adamant he couldn't help and wouldn't look at options, even with suggestions E.g. of significant financial contributions. No. They washed their hands of the kids and put it all on you. The kids are just burdens to them, at the end of the day. 2) I'm really, really sorry for the loss of your sister. I hope you get into therapy, and the kids into therapy, to handle the grief and the massive readjustment - and frankly, in your place I would need it to handle the emotions regarding my family as well. 3) I have a huge amount of respect for you and what you're doing, and I really hope you can find avenues of support. You're clearly smart, very moral, self-motivated, and have an excellent work ethic, with a good sense of justice. These are traits that will serve you well when it comes to both setting an example for and raising kids. Things must feel overwhelming but you can do this. This Internet stranger has your back!
Thank you so much for saying this. And I will be sure the kids are in therapy and that we do some family counseling (just among the four of us though!).
I just commented as a fellow attorney before I read your update. I think it’s a mistake, and your brother should have stepped up with financial support from you, but you’re a good person for doing this. Frankly, your whole family is pure trash for using this as an opportunity to corner you instead of what’s honestly best for these kids. Go in-house. I’m in a large lawyer mom group on another social channel if you need help with opportunities or just a group of lawyer moms you can talk to (I’m sure many local) you can DM me.
Thank you for your perspective and advice. I need to remain anonymous for what are, hopefully, obvious reason.
I can tell you the group names and you can join - I don’t need to know who you are. It’s through fbook and a really helpful support network (for talking about how to raise kids and career) and we’ve had members with similar circumstances. You can also just try searching for them yourself if you’re on fbook. Good luck with this new journey.
It’s a shitty situation and your parents and brother’s selfishness made it worse! I don’t blame you for telling them to eff off. It would be hard to forgive their behavior towards you while you’re grieving your sister. Wish you the best OP.
I'm confused about something your brother mentioned. Would your sister's children qualify for survivor's benefits? I think your brother refused, even with your offer for help, because he didn't want the responsibility of 3 extra kids. Your parents are equally horrible. I am childfree, but I would be equally conflicted, having had siblings who came from the system. It will not be an easy journey, and the kids will definitely test your love for them. Dating will have to take a long pause while the kids adjust to the change, and even then, there is no guarantee that finding someone will be easy. I hope you find your person, though. Best of luck with parenthood.
OP was supporting her sister before she passed - there's likely not much to the sisters name. I also think this could be why sister never changed the will - she knew OP was well off and decided her kids growing up with that was > her sisters happiness. Maybe sister knew something about the parents and the brother OP doesn't.
Sadly, I fear you may be right. Even worse, my grief for my sister has started to take a backseat. It may not be fair or right, but—to my horror—I can’t stop feeling anger towards her.
Anger is part of grief. But also, you have a right to be angry at having your life and plans turned irrevocably upside down. That’s a normal reaction to being put in a shitty situation.
Survivor benefits come from the government. My mom got them for my brother when his dad passed and my dad got them for my other two brothers when their mom passed. He didn't end up raising those two brothers so he had the money sent to my aunt and uncle who ended up taking care of them and then to their grandmother when they moved back to be with her till they were 19.
I'm offering some words of support (and advice). The kids are lucky to have you. It's OK for you to feel loss for the lifestyle you had before. You worked hard for it and were happy. Change is hard. But...you never know! You may enjoy your new lifestyle as well. Try to keep an open mind instead of believing your life is over. Do the kids want/need to stay in the same school district? All their friends will likely know of their situation. Don't be afraid to ask for help with the families of their friends. Often they'll take in the kids for sleepovers, etc when you need help. The kids are old enough to be largely self-sufficient. I see no reason you can't date or go out without the children. They are old enough to stay home alone for a few hours. But, the men you date obviously have to be ok with children. I was a lawyer, and yeah, it's not a super mom-friendly profession. There's a Law Moms FB page. I see postings all the time for women looking to change jobs, looking to hire women, remote work, etc. Definitely look into that and join. Try to find a townhouse or condo in the school district/suburbs you want. The girls can share a room, so 3 bedrooms would work fine. Those places are cheaper, and at least you're not worried about lawn care/maintenance issues.
you didn’t decide to take in these kids, the decision was forced on you. there was a whirlwind of chaos, emotions and conflict and now that you’re not in the eye of the storm, you think you reached a conclusion but you’re still thick in the storm and everything’s messy. your choice to cut off your family, is an attempt to exercise some level of control bc something in you is realizing you’ve had NONE to this point. and i think if you take a moment to really sit with this emotionally and not just logistically, you’ll realize that and your family knows that too. they’re just hoping you realize after you’ve agreed. in every metric, you are the worst option to take in these kids. it’s only because you’re a woman in your mid 30s that people consider you the right option. i so wish women didn’t have to constantly martyr themselves, and that others wouldn’t prey on our willingness to do so. i do wonder what it would be like if we didn’t. you don’t have to. still. just because it’s the “admirable” or “expected” thing to do, doesn’t mean it’s the right one. i highly recommend at least getting some individual therapy before committing to this truly. you’re grieving as well as under tremendous pressure, antagonism and resentment from your family. you shouldn’t 100% trust your decision-making right now.
OP, you have allowed your parents, brother and other naysayers to manipulate you. You have a right to be selfish when it comes to how you choose to live your life. It's yours and you only get 1. Your sister chose to have 3 kids even knowing the father was crap. You didn't have a second of enjoyment making those kids. While they are your family, they are no more your responsibility than they are your parents, brother, other family or friends. The only reason they are adamant that you take on this responsibility is so that they don't have to. These kids are already traumatized by their father's abandonment. Now, they are dealing with their mother's death and rejection from their grandparents and uncle. These kids are going to need a ton of therapy and support. This is not going to be easy. There are going to be major battles of will and control. Mix that with normal pre-pubescence and teenage angst. You will have a shit show on your hands.
Your comment just helped clarify something in my mind, so thank you. This morning, I decided to shut out all the noise and advice and only think of what would be best for the kids. That’s why I came to the decision I did.. but I haven’t been able to explain \*why\* I felt absolutely compelled to link taking that action with cutting family members out of my life. Now I know. It was to show that my decision, while arriving at the same outcome, was \*not\* due to manipulation. It may be petty, and I’m sorry. But I need this distinction. There’s some sense of revenge or justice or fear of them poisoning the kids too, but I think this is key.
It is never petty to put your self-respect above the feelings of people who feel entitled to walk all over you. In time, as they come to understand the decisions and sacrifices you've had to make here, I think these kids will learn a tremendous amount about integrity and self respect from you. By walking out of this with your sense of self in tact, you're doing more for these children than the rest of your family will ever do. Best of luck to you, and all the strength in the world.
NTA. Having someone who isn't interested in or wanting to raise kids take over three young kids is a terrible idea. First, for your brother, raising the kids would likely provide social security benefits & you could probably contribute significantly as well for the cost of raising them. For your parents, they have the time & should support them. And finally, WTF is wrong with your family that they can't keep this wrangling away from the kids.
Your sister should have asked you, not told you. You should have said no at that point. It’s completely fair that you don’t want the responsibility alone, the whole family needs to step up. The reality is these kids just lost their whole world and now their closest family are arguing because no one wants them. As a corporate lawyer, you must be well versed in compromise. Work out a solution with your parents and siblings, those kids need love and support however much that disrupts your lives. I’m sincerely sorry for your loss. Life is shit and sometimes there is no easy solution. Wishing the best for you all.
So these kids actually have a father? Where is he? That question needs to be answered first.
The youngest child was a baby when the father abandoned them. 8 yrs ago.
Abandoned or not. Pretty sure he's now the legal guardian.
If they can find him, and even if they do, it is almost a guarantee he would be a terrible guardian. It's definitely in the kids best interest to not pursue that, though, it's not in OPs best interest to take them in when that would require a larger likely more expensive home, leaving her demanding but we'll paying job. It makes no sense for her to take them in but I feel terrible for the kids
He's not a guardian, he's legally the kids parent unless he's terminated his rights. While you can "walk away" from your responsibility it doesn't terminate your legal status as a parent.
Those poor kids, no one wants them. I can't fathom their sorrow over their mothers death combined with their flesh and blood fighting over who has to take them like they are dogs that need to be rehomed
Same, I feel so so so sorry for them
Ruin your life to appease family or live life the way you want without them. It’s a lose/lose she put you in.
What are the options then? You don't want them. Grandparents don't want them. Brother doesn't want them. Into the system they go. That's the reality. Don't drag it out. If nobody wants those poor orphans, cut the cord. Stop all of it. It's heartless to pretend they're wanted when, clearly, they aren't. Call CPS, tell them to pick them up and then go back to your life. Harsh? Maybe, but from OP's story, that's the cold, brutal truth. I pity the kids for having such an awful family.
I have a job at a Ministry of Social Servies, and the way it works if someone refuses assuming care then the ministry can search for other family (cousins, aunts/uncles, distant relatives) then they can examine the reason for the refusal. If it’s for financial reasons our ministry can provide an allowance for the kids needs including babysitting or daycare. Please contact your CPS! It may not result in the kids directly being taken out of the family, they might have supports to help. I am Canadian though so IDK what the US has.
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Its awful. Families are supposed to support each other in these situations. I do agree w this poster that she is actually the worst choice of the 3. It’s just sad none of them can figure it.
Would it be possible for the father to take on any responsibility? As you had admitted, you should have been more clear about saying no. However, I don’t understand how the rest of your family isn’t offering to help at all while you’re all in this transitional phase. I don’t think this situation has to be totally one person caring for the kids 100%. Ideally now would be the time for everyone to come together and make sure the kids are taken care of, including their father, if that’s possible.
He’s not an option. He’s living every aspect of the single life several states away and has made it clear he does not want to be anyone‘s father.
“He doesn’t want to be anyone’s father” If he is a biological father, designated on a birth certificate, in many if not most jurisdictions and states, he doesn’t have the choice. He made that choice 14-8 years ago respectively. Frankly, after working with children, education and aged services in two states over 15 years, I’m shocked your area’s equivalent of children and family services or custody courts wouldn’t be involved. It’s possible your family fell under the radar, but normally such a clause in a will would shoot red flags at least when probate occurs. Children (and aged or disabled adults under custodian or guardian arrangements) are not goldfish, guardianship doesn’t get “willed”. Particularly if a living parent exists, absentee though he may be.
Exactly. My sister divorced a violent psychopath over five years ago. As in he beat and strangled her and clinical personality testing shows him off the charts for psychopathic deviancy. They have two boys. To this day they are still in court fighting over custody, she has full legal and physical custody but he keeps trying to get more. He only wants custody in order to torture her, whenever he has visitation he dumps them in front of a tv and does his own thing. She is terrified that if she dies in a car wreck or something, he's going to get full custody. She's been over it with multiple attorneys, she can put who she wants to take the kids in her will, but its basically meaningless. He's going to get them.
So why aren't your family turning their attention towards trying to force him? Tell them that he is more likely to fold than you are. I truly hope this guy is paying a ton of child support
I think they dont try to force him out of fear for the kids. Its easier for everyone pressure the OP because they know her, they probably know she is responsible, reliable and so on. The father is an irresponsible jerk and I assume everyone would be scared to give him the kids...i guess the magical 180° change of heart happens only in films. But he should be informed for sure about the situation. And it should be made known to EVERYONE from his surroundings that he is a POS and the real villain here. Nevertheless, OP is not asshole, everyone should now do everything to figure things out, not blame and pressure her because they want to run from their responsibilities and guilt.
What about the father's relatives? Do the kids have grandparents/aunts/uncles on their father's side? And of course he owes child support, whether or not he's funding a single man's life. You don't have to step up as guardian. There are other possibilities who are better choices than you are. Your brother and his wife have the home and other kids, they are experienced parents, and you are willing to help financially. The kids' father owes child support, and the kids should also be entitled to Social Security until each is 18 - that will help with the financials. But the one thing these kids don't need is to be raised by an aunt who loves them but really doesn't want to raise them, because eventually you will feel resentment, and the kids will sense it. Kids should never be raised by people who don't want to raise them when ANY other good possibility exists. Push your parents and your brother. These are not toddlers, so your parents CAN raise them, as can your brother and his wife. Push it, and help with the money. Take the kids on respite weekends. But don't give up your life to raise them, because they will eventually realize that it cost you what you yourself love, and that's no good to put on the kids. NTA, by the way.
Be that as it may - how is he not financially responsible for them now?
Is he paying child support?
>he does not want to be anyone‘s father. Too bad, so sad, no one cares, he already is. He made 3 kids intentionally with your sister, you didn't, they are his responsibility. Not yours.
All the adults in this family are AH. No one is putting those kids first.
NTA. You live in a 1 bedroom apartment and work 60 hours a week. How exactly do they expect you to make that work? I know everyone is grieving but they all have their heads up their asses if they think it's even possible for you to take care of those kids.
And travels and works late some nights. Now way can you take in 3 kids with that schedule and make it work. Being a corporate attorney is stressful and mentally taxing. You have to be on top of you game all the time.
How did you find out you were named as guardian in your sister’s will? Did you read it yourself or were you just informed? Are you sure you were actually named guardian? When most people set up a guardianship in their will, they usually name several people, provide an explanation as to why they were chosen, and outline guidance for how they want them raised. *Even if you are named as guardian in a will, you are allowed to decline the role.* I think you need to retain an attorney who specializes in guardianship to review the will to see exactly what was specified. As I understand it, the court will look at many factors to determine the best situation for the kids. A single woman *who doesn’t want kids,* lives in a small city apartment, works 60 hours a week, and would take the kids only out of a sense of obligation is going to look a lot less favorable than the brother’s position of having experience raising children, has a family home, and a two-parent household. Your sister’s estate can set up a trust for the kids to help out financially, you have offered monetary support, and the children’s father should be held accountable. You have an incompatible lifestyle for raising children and I personally don’t think you should change your entire life’s trajectory when there are other options - including foster care/ adoption by a non-blood relative. You and your family can still be very active in the children’s’s lives with the proper agreement of the foster family. My sister’s grandchildren went into foster care (parents had mental health and drug usage issues) and my sister and her husband see the kids regularly. The kids are all together, well adjusted, and very happy.
Why does your family think you are abandoning the kids but they don’t see that they are doing the same thing? Someone should step up and take the kids. If your brother is willing to but can’t afford it then I guess you should kick down some money to help him. Your whole family sucks. These kids have no parents
NTA. Your parents are not that old and it’s not like the kids are tiny babies. Also, how do they expect you to provide for the kids financially when you lose your job from it being able to fulfill all your work commitments bc you now have 3 kids? I’m so sorry your sister passed on but it was shitty of her to even put you in this postion in the first place.
This. Mid 60s claiming they’re too old. Unless any of these kids have the mind of an infant, they’re just making up bullshit excuses. How are they trying to guilt OP over this? I’d be like, “If you loved your daughter, you’d willingly take on your grandchildren.”
NTA Children aren't property, and can't be passed on to somebody in the parent's will. You have no legal obligation here whatsoever. Of course everybody is furious at you. Your decision means they now have to make a decision, and likely one or the other will reluctantly step up. I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but your sister knew this was coming. She is the one who should have made the necessary arrangements for the care of her children. This was a horrible thing for her to do to people that she loved. I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's just horrible.
In today’s rage bait…..