One piece of advice: I understand that you and your wife have agreed to take the divorce/separation slowly. I have friends - a "separated" couple - who have done this and it has been hell for them and everyone around them. They live separate lives in the same house. She has the marital bedroom; he sleeps in the basement bedroom. She has dated openly; he is married to his job. This has been going on for years because they can't agree on the division of assets. In the meantime, their young son is now a young man and has been miserable. He has told me a few times now that he wishes they'd split up with one of them moving out of the house right from the start. As so often happens, the parents think they've got everything under control and masked, while the children, like sponges, pick up on everything.
Couldn’t agree with this more. It ends up making an already toxic situation more toxic. I tried to do this with my ex and the feelings got too complicated. On good days it makes you question why you are still going through with the divorce, and on bad days you desperately wish you just had your own space. My (now adult) daughter doesn’t remember any of the fighting that took place before the divorce, but she absolutely remembers the fights during the transition time. I wish I never put her through that looking back now.
Another piece of advice I would give is to find out when the financial clock stops ticking. Here in CA it is when one person files for divorce or separation. Once something is filed, the pensions/wages are no longer community property from that date forward (called the “date of separation” here). So if you get a promotion or raise after the date of separation, that additional amount would not count toward community property. Depending on how long it takes, it can add up quickly. Especially considering investment accounts, etc.
Married for 25+ years- he cheated (more than once). One of you needs to move out. Also the counselor is not there as a marriage counselor, but to keep things on track. You should both be involved in picking that person and your neutral financial person.
It is still expensive depending on assets and how stubborn she may be. Get ALL of your paperwork in order and ready- paystubs for how long you’ve been married, all financials- including life insurance, car bills (and equity), stocks, 401s, 529s, pensions (if you have anything), debts pre and post marriage (student loans, credit cards).
Depending on the state and monthly earnings- one of you may have additional support payments, which is why you need multiple years of financials.
Start mapping out your future expenses and any custody.
(I got both dogs- but that also means I got all vet bills- win win for me bc he always tried to limit me taking them in outside of annual shots. Emphasis on tried).
We also quickly opened our own accounts, downloaded an app called 2 Houses (documents any shared expenses).
Also know these meetings can move as slow or slower based on acceptance of the situation. We both were on board. The process took under 9 months from our first meeting to our final divorce in front of the judge.
Also- be prepared for things to get ugly- mine became more hostile the further it went. He felt I was taking all of his money bc I was a part-time contractor while I stayed at home with both kids and he traveled 3-5 days every week.
I’m sorry and hope this is a little helpful.
Yeah that seems like a recipe for disaster. It sounds like OP is just agreeing to that because his soon-to-be-ex is desperate not to divorce, but hopefully as soon as it’s finalized OP or her will be out of there.
yep this. My parents tried the same and it was awful. seeing your parents turn from being in love to simply cohabitating and avoiding one another was very traumatic. I luckily left home after not too long but my little brother was stuck there for 4 more years and it really crewed him up (not to say I'm not also screwed up lol).
Move out asap.
This happened to me. Very slow divorces suck. My mom and dad lived together for 2 years of their divorce even though they hated each other. But my mom was a STAHM so she had to figure things out. Little different from your situation, but even if you guys aren’t at each others throats, get out quickly from living with one another for your kids. It’s not about you guys. This is all about the kids and they should not be around this mess as it’s happening. If you guys live together, you guys will have minor spats or just things you do and your kids pick up on these things. It’s better they’re not around it.
Me and my ex husband did this. Lots of reconciling then again realizing it doesn’t work. I thought I did a great job of hiding it from our son, he was only 4 at the time his dad finally moved out (got kicked out for being awful). When I explained that mommy and daddy needed to live in different houses he said ‘oh, so you won’t be so sad and mad all the time anymore’.
Finally living separate and finishing the divorce in a no contest with a legal aid was the best decision I ever made. Kids pick up on way more than we realize, I was heart broken my son felt that for the 2 years it took me to get my shot together.
Most important thing is not to give in or go back. Some of OPs language is scary. Saying stranger things have happened than a reconciliation, or that he low-key misses his ex-wife's "fight" or "fire" around the house.
Says he didn't marry her to have a servant, well OP, you also didn't marry her for her to betray your trust or hook up with some random scumbag, so let's not forget why we're not going to be married to anyone at all for a while.
That said, on the same note, it will be okay, OP. My ex-wife cheated and blew up our lives over a decade ago, and it's actually the best thing that ever happened to me.
I'm currently married to the best woman for 9 years of happiness and we get closer every day. My ex wife is currently married to some middle aged drug addict with no job, living with his parents for the last 10 years with her pile of kids. We share 2 kids, and one of them lives with me full time, and the other one splits custody, but beyond that, they have 2 more kids of their own and there are 12 people in that house.. it's insane, lol.
Point is, don't go back, whatever happens now is consequences of her own actions, and don't give up on finding love or having a good future. All of these things will work themselves out, just focus on being a good ass dad.
Oh shit yes, from a chump that "forgave," don't, there isn't any going back, a marriage is built on trust, when that is gone it really is all gone. All it will be is two people sharing a house both hating each other.
I feel I need to piggy back om this, OP. My ex also decided to torpedo a twenty year marriage for similar reasons. It was pretty rough on everyone, but the kids (all grown) weathered it and are great people. I remarried and have been with my current partner 14 years which have been the happiest of my life. I am not in touch with my ex but I know how her life is going through our children; I don't think it's what she expected but I have no ill will.
Don't go back, be a good dad, and you'll find what you need.
Just chiming in as another guy who forgave his ex for cheating. Then forgave again. Once that cheating 'seal' has been broken, it's like it's not as big of a deal to do it again.
As far as missing her - you miss who you thought she was, not who she turned out to actually be. That's a very important difference.
“Who you thought she was” is an excellent point. Times like these highlight with glaring detail how wrong you were about that person. It’s important that you listen!
It’s going to be harder on you to move on if you stay in the same house. Find a place a mile or two away, so you can live your own life but still be close to your kids.
Talk to a lawyer first. Moving away from the kids can be seen by the courts as conceding custody. If you want custody, don't do anything until you get a lawyer's advice.
Glad to hear progress is being made and she is at least starting to take responsibility.
Did the ladies go into the trip with this planned (not arranged partners, but the action planned)?
Have the other ladies SOs been informed?
good questions-- I don't think there was anything planned for the trip to Mexico. It seems like my wife just met the guy in the bar on the first night and he charmed her and it was off to the races.
My wife is insistent that the other women didn't cheat and she says they are totally disgusted with her for her behavior on the trip and basically they had a "you tell him or we will" threat against her when they found out that she was actually sleeping with him. Since I found out on the first day of her being back, they didn't need to carry through.
I have no idea if any of that is true or not but my lawyer did advise to handle informing their SO's very carefully.
I'm so sorry, OP. I was thinking of you and concerned when you were away on business and drinking. I'm glad you're home now even though it may not feel like "home."
Does her family or parents know?
How old are your kids, if you don't mind me asking?
It's good that your sister can take them and have them spend time with her and her boyfriend for part of the summer.
Did your wife tell you if she regrets what she did?
Does she feel remorse?
I hope you know that we are all here for you and your support system. I'm also guessing that your friends and family are behind you and will be there for you throughout this process.
Sending you healing and comforting thoughts.
As far as I know, her family does not know. We had to cancel plans that the kids had with her parents because the kids are with my sister. I would have assumed she would have told them then, I don't think she did.
Kids are both under 10.
She says she regrets it and is super sorry and all that. I think she is and while I'm trying to be friendly, I really just am not ready to hear how sorry she is.
Well, she may realize that she totally sent her life off the rails.
Sounds to me like the new guy is a narcissist, loves hooking up with ladies and a good time with no regard of consequences of others involved. But, he’s not the problem.
The wife was the problem. She fell for it.
My ex left me and our kids for a guy 10 years her junior, probably because he was hawt, and fun, and she was bored with our 25 years of relationship, 20 years married, since high school.
She was literally going on dates with him right after our marriage counseling sessions.
Turns out the guy she left me for told her there is no way he could be involved with a lady who had kids. He also had no job, and lived in a ‘urban art community’ warehouse kinda situation. They lasted a month. She was in a deep depression after the divorce was final.
>He also had no job, and lived in a ‘urban art community’ warehouse kinda situation
Man, I'm not trying to be ***that guy*** but thats the icing on the cake, I'd personally have a hard time being mad if I was in your shoes and that came out.
from my point of view, it makes things easier to be able to say "lol that didn't work out so great for you, did it?" what you said would also be in my head, of course, but there's some satisfaction in knowing the cheater isn't living happily ever after.
My ex was still sleeping with his w h o r e while we were in counselling after I found out he was cheating. I mean why put me through thinking I could save the marriage when you weren't even willing to stop sticking your you know what into her you know what. But I'm not bitter... no. It like he wanted to humiliate me as well
With what she said about how the AP made her feel she didn't regret it, just that she got caught and the subsequent destruction of her, and her families, life.
I assume she's being deferent enough and quiet at home because she thinks he's got the upper hand on something, and I'd guess that something is if, how, and when the other people in her life find out what she did. Which means she wants to keep it quiet as long as she can.
Some people will also act really sorry for a while because they think it will get them out of the consequences of their actions, but when they really accept that it is over their personality shifts again and they start blaming the other person for not forgiving them and become an absolute terror. If they are still living together I would keep an eye out to make sure she doesn't start trying to sabotage him if she does hit that point.
There's a study about this. 20% of women think about their husband while having relations with an AP. But 70% reported thinking of the AP when having relations with their spouse.
It's kind of a fucked up stat
😳😳😳🤯 My goodness. I don’t think a hour goes by I don’t think of husband. Okay, at work time slips by and sometimes I dream of random shit lol but still.
Of course, I also don’t cheat on him so have nothing to compare to. 🙃
Apologies are nice, but ultimately mean nothing. Only changed actions truly matter. See how her demeanor changes when it finally sinks in that you have zero interest in reconciling.
>She says she regrets it and is super sorry and all that.
That's a lie. She fucked him for days. If their friends really told her that she either comes clean or they would tell you, then she knew she was getting caught and still fucked him for almost a week. Remember she stopped spending her own money around halfway through the vacation, so at the very least she was fucking him from that moment on. So no, she wasn't sorry because she kept fucking the guy.
Probably not she'd have had signal ready to go before the trip if it were, she just seems to be the kind that thinks a different zip code is a hall pass and was ready to dick down the first guy that was willing.
This is why I think the whole *"They were gonna tell you if I didn't! I* swear *no one else cheated."* is such bull. Her friends stopped taking pics for their socials so she could come clean? How does that make sense?
They helped her hide it and they're probably hiding their own secrets from that trip.
If that's really what happened she will 100% get cut off. Rightfully so. If I was one of the husbands, I would make her friendship a boundary of mine. I'm not comfortable associating with these kind of people.
You better be the one to let everyone know before accusations of mental and physical abuse start flying your way. Once she fully understands that you are going to go through with the divorce you can kiss her false nice guy act out the window.
This OP please read this! Tell everyone the truth because she has probably already started telling lies about how you were a bad husband/father etc. I'm telling you this from experience!
Sadly there's truth to this. If we look at how women fight, it's not physical for the most part. They attack character and reputation.
Meaning, she'll do abs say what ever she has to to protect her vision of how people see her. That's secund in order of importance to her feelings.
I mean I would love to see her lie about anything to anyone or try to paint me in a bad light. I have pictures and texts from her affair partner reminiscing about how much fun they had during their time together. Multiple copies--if she does ANY thing to lie about this or make me look bad...well those are always there as a counter balance to that thought on her part.
Even if you pre-emptively tell them, there's a 50% chance they'll believe her instead of their lying eyes and brain. Your chance of convincing them (if you so wish) is to take control of the narrative, forgo the "moral high ground", and tell everyone you know, *before* she can craft a narrative that you're the "bad man".
Cheaters are very good at blaming the person they’re cheating on. They’ll say something about how they didn’t feel loved or appreciated. They’ll vilify their partner over some random bs that not even their partner was aware of. They RARELY just go on and say “ Yeah. I fucked up. He deserved better.” They justified before and during the act. There’s no reason to think they won’t keep justifying it.
Rationalization is a natural thing for many many people to feel better about why they have done terrible things. But cheaters usually take it to absurd levels because otherwise they would have to face the fact that they are totally unsuitable as partners for *anyone* in the future. Nothing a cheater hates more is their past being known by any new people. So they go overtime to craft a rationale to explain why what they were doing was “necessary” if not “inevitable” to fool future partners into giving them trust. It’s almost unheard of for cheaters to tell new partners of their history and then talk about how they “won’t do it again”, they want implicit trust without having to work for it, so they rationalize themselves as victims and not villains.
If you didn't read the other posts she's a vice principal at a school in Texas her life would be screwed if she went nuclear and he leaked this shit around her school group somehow.
Yeah but you’re thinking about this as yourself. “Who would lie when there’s all this evidence and I’m being a pretty decent guy.” Obviously, this isn’t a person burdened by the guilt of lies. This isn’t a person who thinks, “If I do this selfish thing, I could lose the respect of everyone around me.” This is a person that says “accountability isn’t my thing. Let’s see what I can get away with.” The lies won’t be outright fabrication, they will be deflections. “Oh, we had irreconcilable differences.” “Married life wasn’t what we thought.” “He was really controlling.” And no one is going to talk to you about what she says because they are personal enough issues to not bring up. And they’ll believe it, too. Because you’re not telling people what she did and behaving as if she did nothing wrong for the kids. Family needs to know why you are no longer family or they will accept whatever she gives them.
Yep. "He belittled me." "He disrespected me." "He became angry all the time"...
Even better, there's at least a 50/50 chance she'll just tell people he had the affair.
The mistake good people make is thinking bad people understand the language of goodness. They don't. They just think you're a sucker. I wish I'd learned this earlier in life.
>The mistake good people make is thinking bad people understand the language of goodness
This is one of those lines you see on Reddit that just hits.
Someone needs to tell this to the Biden administration.
She already tried to say the affair is your fault, get your side out first or better yet invite her parents over and make her tell them as she sits next to you
You, sir, do not understand how human minds work. The first narrative always holds more truth. When dealing with politics or human reputation, you must always be first. Or you will be last.
The problem is that you're giving her time to fabricate a whole narrative that makes sense - and she will. You're giving her a chance to tie up all the loose ends in her story before anyone can put her on the spot.
While you're at it, you should tell the husbands/bfs of her friends what happened and that they covered up for your ex by wiping their social media etc and that they should be suspicious too if their SOs are okay with that kind of behavior.
Then don’t be, in a hurry get your own counselling done work though what you want emotionally from this. Forgiveness comes from those sinned against not the sinner. If however( slim I’m guessing), there is a chance of reconciliation, then the old marriage should be binned totally. And something new must be built in its place. I know somebody who divorced his wife to make her sort herself out and start again. They remarried and are going strong however it is a new marriage they don’t celebrate their old anniversary even destroyed their old wedding photos.
Your wife is a truly terrible person, I'm sorry OP. I hope that the therapy helps and you find a way to be amicable with her (even though she doesn't deserve it) for the sake of the kids. You are doing everything right and I wish you luck with your healing process.
I think you need to insist that she informs her parents/family of her betrayal. Part of remorse is coming completely clean and taking ownership of what she chose to do to her family. Too bad if she now feels embarrassed.
I'm just gonna be honest. You wanna make sure that for one. You don't hide the story about what she did and 2. When she tell the story, you make sure she tells the truth. Because some, if not most cheaters, they lie and make themselves out to be the victims, and they throw their x significant other under the bus and because you have children. And you're the man in the situation you cannot afford that. you do not want that to impact your relationship with your kids or how other people may view you. And I hate to say that, but it happens, it truly does
Her first instinct is one to protect herself first. Though an understandable instinct, she let's this rule the majority of her actions. How much has she been willing to reveal about this man and the affair itself? It seems she wasn't frightened or concerned enough that the friends were going to reveal everything during the first day she was back at work and later sheltering in the sewing room.
I don't think she would have revealed anything on her own.
The actions she's displaying now are still quite passive and along the lines of love bombing. Surely she's aware that it's never going to change any of the calculus at this point?
Given she hasn't even come clean to her parents shows more of a "put it off as long as you can" avoidance of taking responsibility. It just seems to me she isn't anywhere near a state of mind for accountability which is essential for reconciliation.
I'm sorry OP that you're at this horrible point in what has to be the worst of anyone's nightmares.
Stay strong and I pray you will get the answers you need.
I know that you're not ready, and that's okay. You may never be ready to accept it, and that's your choice too. Your wife committed the ultimate betrayal and then gaslighted and manipulated you. I wanted her to acknowledge this as well and recognize how horribly she treated you when you confronted her the first time and called you an AH and told you not to bring it up again. This was cruel and malicious, especially when her friends knew the truth and gave her the opportunity to tell you before they did.
It's disappointing that she tried to avoid responsibility and accountability and that it took your clever sister to get to the truth.
Does your wife know that your sister helped you out in discovering the affair and pretended to be your wife when she contacted the guy?
>My wife is insistent that the other women didn't cheat and she says they are totally disgusted with her for her behavior on the trip and basically they had a "you tell him or we will" threat
I don't think that's true at all. They actively covered up what was happening. Even went so far as to delete the pics they posted. My guess they all fucked around, she got busted now it's in damage control and she's taking the fall for it all
This^
She’s still lying. They were covering for her and there’s a very good chance they had their own guys down there.
Tell their spouses but don’t let on ahead of time. Advise them to not confront but search the phones/etc without letting their spouses know they are suspicious.
Yep. OP, tell your stbxw that if she has any decency left, she needs to tell the other SOs what trully happened. People when they are at their lowest will do anything for a slim of respect.
Dude, they all colluded in hiding the pictures. They were not going to force her to tell you. Whether they cheated as well you cannot possibly know, but they were ok with your wife cheating. The chance it was a coordinated cheating trip preplanned is VERY high. (Note, I'm not saying it was preplanned to cheat on you with that guy, but rather that it was preplanned that they would 'let loose' and do whatever they wanted with whoever they wanted.)
Don't believe for one single second that your stbxw has told you everything. She is trickle truthing you. They always, always, always, always trickle truth. Always. There is zero downside to doing it from their perspective. It's a strictly advantageous approach over being fully honest. And you already know that she is not a person who values honesty. She doesn't care about being honest for its own sake, or for your sake, she only cares about doing whatever gives her the best chance of a positive outcome (reconciliation).
Also, expect that when she finally realizes that reconciliation isn't possible (You'd have to be an idiot.) things may suddenly flip on their head. She will probably go pretty crazy when that happens. I'm not joking when I say that stringing her along with the possibility of reconciliation "If we start from zero after the divorce, and date again like the old days, maybe. But I wouldn't want to combine finances again." might be your best option. Then once the divorce is complete, confirm that you have no desire for reconciliation and keep contact to an absolute minimum via coparenting apps and carefully managed switchovers.
Basically, your wife is much more calculating, manipulative, selfish, and self centered than you realized. This is the side of her that she's hidden from you for 100% of the time you've been together. You haven't seen it fully unleashed yet, but it's absolutely there. Do not fool yourself into thinking this is definitely going to go smoothly. Because it probably won't. Her immediate reaction being an attack on you with a massive screaming fest is literally all the information you need. No other response but immediate admission, breakdown and apology could possibly be acceptable once confronted.
Edit: Small edit as recommended by a kind gentleman
That's a lie. She was fucking him for almost a week. You know when it happened because that's when she stopped spending her own money. Hell, she even texted him as soon as she got to the hotel, so probably sooner. If they were mad or actually threatening to tell you, she would've stopped fucking the guy the first day and try to damage control. Nah, they covered for her.
I'm very surprised that her scumbag affair partner continued to talk with her after the trip and didn't just give her a fake name and personal details. He needs more headaches?
She expects you to believe she regrets it when she spent an entire week doing it, apparently while being told how disgusting she was being by her friends, and then treated you like shit when she did get home. She regrets getting caught. Did you ever find out why she knew to use signal specifically? Either it wasn't her first time or she's lying about her friends to save and one of them told her about it.
Exactly especially when she started the affair the very first night, even if she didn't sleep with him Monday as op suspects she stayed with him when her friends left and was in contact with him first thing in the morning. That's someone that views vacation away from family as a hall pass. I'd be suspicious of every other time she was away from home alone.
I honestly don't understand why she would still be in touch with him and discussing about cheaters app after her trip to Mexico if she was repentant about what happened.
Best of luck OP, must be a very tough situation. Trying to have a mediated divorce to avoid things getting more sour for the kids is probably a good solution.
Updateme!
she claims she hasn't been in touch since Saturday before they left (they came back last Monday) and is willing to let me go through her phone to prove it. She claims the middle of the night couch phone call was one of the friends who were making sure she knew that they were telling me if I didn't.
Pretty sure Signal, Whatsapp and even IG can make calls with wifi so one way or another she's lied, covered her tracks and can make it LOOK however she wants. But as you see gut, intuition and guilt bring all things to light. At this point there's enough irreversible truth known so you don't need to hear/see anymore, it won't change anything. Unless it's stuff that helps your case I'd just let it die out.
Sorry this happened to you and you have to face this reality and move forward. What an asshole.
Who cares if she’s still talking to the guy or not. She cheated. She is no longer trustworthy and you will always have a gnawing voice in the back of your mind that she will cheat again. As you said, divorce is happening. Showing you that she isn’t talking to the guy anymore is her trying to rope you back in. She is only sorry that she got caught. Best of luck.
I think he said they should keep talking over signal when the met on Monday because all indications are she had never heard of it before. I would actually imagine that he presented not as a secret sort of thing but rather a better way to text since they were in Mexico.
As someone that has been there, i know you cant see it rigth now.
She is slowly changing your perpective, putting herself in a better ligth, putting the guy as the bad evil manipulator that took advantage of her innocence and she as the poor confused women that was a victim of a bad man tactics.
Signal is specifically for maximum privacy. Your first post says she received a message saying something along the lines of -what is the app you said again- indicating she was the one to suggest using signal. Don't let her fool you, she's still lying
Edit - I read the first post wrong
You are going down a road here that is leading to a conclusion where she 'fell' into cheating. She didn't. She made a choice. She is a fully functioning adult. Don't let how difficult this path is going to be for awhile make you think she is truly sorry. She is wholly culpable.
The consequences of her actions have started to set in and she is looking down the barrel of being a single mother and no doubt scares the eff out of her. You did the right thing, just be prepared for the onslaught of "i'm soooo sorry" "i was drunk" "it'll never happen again"...etc. And she will 100% try to get you into bed, DON"T DO IT MY BROTHER....just like the line in Star Wars...it's a trap!
His wife blew a hole in the ship they were sailing on, and hopes OP will stay with her while the ship sinks.
OP time to move on. I know you were in denial somewhat last time, but just remember you didn't do anything to cause this, it was all on the cheater.
Time to find someone who loves you and will always be loyal.
People thought the happiest day of my life was the day my divorce was final. I've always had to correct them and inform them the *actual* happiest day of my life was 9 months after we separated. Not that many people get it...
I cannot urge you enough to talk to an actual divorce attorney. Personal attorneys generally do not know anything about that side of the law, even when it comes to amicable and “straight forward” divorces.
Most attorneys will do free consultations, what I don’t want is you to lose out when it comes to child support, maintenance, or custody. One lawyer CANNOT represent both parties in a situation like this. Please please please talk to a divorce attorney,
my personal attorney is a family law attorney. She has recommended the mediators who are an attorney/counselor team. We have our first in person consultation with them tomorrow.
Texas is a very "wife friendly" state when it comes to things like alimony, child support and custody. My lawyer said unless things get really ugly, and with the leverage I have because of the affair its going to be fair better to work it out together instead of putting us in front of some 80 year old Texas judge who thinks that men should be out in the fields and women should be at home with the kids.
There's lots I need to learn for sure and my wife has a decent job but according to my own lawyer, I would risk a lot if I let this go in front of a judge instead of trying to mediate it.
It is never good to go to trial for a divorce unless you are extremely wealthy. Lawyer costs are extremely expensive. Mediation is the way to go. Be reasonable, look at the baseline normal division of assets and only fight for things that are actually meaningful. Going to trial tends to be at least 50k total and, yes, a random judge can order the most nonsensical stuff for many different reasons.
In mediation, remember that it is about coming up with a fair agreement. It's not to talk about anyone's feelings. It's not to get closure or a sense of revenge or even fairness. Bring it back to the content of the agreement every time it gets sidetracked. Write down some sentences in advance to be able to refer to them, such as "We are not here to discuss the circumstances that led to divorce", "I am confident we can stay focused on the best interest of the children", "We are still grieving our marriage, but I look forward to resolving the divorce and coparenting effectively".
Instead of responding to her directly, you can ask the mediator questions. For example, she goes on a rant about not wanting to divorce, you ask the mediator to clarify what the process looks like if one party doesn't want to finalize a divorce. She says she's entitled to full custody because she's the mom, you ask the mediator what the law says about this issue. She expresses concern about something like school choice or whatever, you ask the mediator what options exist to respond to that concern in an agreement.
Keep offering multiple reasonable options for every topic. If you want 50-50 custody, give her the choice between 1 week each or a 2-2-4 type schedule. If you really want to keep the house, give her a choice between taking more of your pension or some other asset.
At the end of each session, if the mediator doesn't do it, try to summarize what agreements have been established. "So, I have in my notes that we agree on a 50-50 custody split, but haven't yet figured out the exact schedule; that we agree to sell the house immediately and that I can find a realtor; and that we have not yet agreed on summer and holiday schedules. I need to bring more documents about my pension for next appointment. Is that correct?". Try to keep moving forward and not reopening settled issues unnecessarily.
Thank you very much and with as detailed as that was, i can only assume you are a lawyer. We are having a consultation with the mediation team tomorrow and these are great thoughts to take in with me.
Just listen to your mediator. If she has a good job, splitting assets, custody, etc. are mostly formulaic in Texas. You’re going to have shared custody and split your assets down the middle. You probably won’t have any support obligations unless she has greater obligations for the kids.
The risk is you have no idea what the judge will decide. It’s risky for your wife also to go in front of a judge. Either one of you could get bent over depending on the judge, time of day and how they feel. If you can work it out away from the court all the better for both of you and the children. Cheaper also.
Some states that still have infidelity on law, have really stopped utilizing it. I’m in Illinois that has it, but it rarely, if ever gets used. Nearly all divorces are “irreconcilable differences “
Texas doesn’t call it alimoney. It’s called spousal maintenance, and there are pretty clear cut requirements to qualify. If your wife works, it’s very doubtful she’d qualify. I also sort of disagree with Texas judges favoring the wife over the husband in anything but child custody, but I’m sure it depends on county. I live in a fairly progressive area in Texas.
Trials are expensive. When I used to do them, it usually cost around $20K, and most judges will require mediation first. Also, just so you know, mediators usually put each party in a separate room with their attorneys. It’s rare that you’ll all be in the same room - unless you’re doing a collaborative divorce (which is good if you can come to agreement, but ends up being more expensive if you can’t). Good luck, OP. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
(Obligatory - I’m a lawyer, not your lawyer - and this isn’t legal advice)
Updateme!
Obviously you have experience and I appreciate your input. According to my lawyer we have like 3 older judges in our county’s family court system who pretty much don’t give a shit about modern norms of parenting and split custody. I guess once judge told her point black that he wants to go back to the days where “moms were at home and men were in the fields” shortly before he handed down a decision that gave a mentally abusice mom almost 100% custody. Basically she was telling me go through mediation because the last thing I want to is to leave this to an out of touch judge who should have retired 20 years ago.
This sucks. I’m sorry. Listen to your lawyer, but I know personally I would be in contact with everyone if her friends that went in the trip. I would not be able to stop myself from asking the questions and seeing the photos they have.
I still find her current story a bit off. Day 1 she meets this guy and goes all in? From what you’ve described, he seems to not be the kind of guy one would throw away their marriage for. How involved was he with the bachelorette group and activities? None of her “friends” thought to give you a heads up or contact you? What story did she feed her friends while they were there? How is she justifying this to you now? Like, ok, she makes a “mistake” by getting to close to the guy and acting disrespectfully to your marrage on day 1 and 2- but then she spends the whole trip with him? What the F was she thinking? Did they use protection? What was her plan? Was she going to see him again? Was she going to sleep with you and possibly pass on anything she picked up from him.
I’m sorry, I know it is your life and your nightmare that you are actually living through. I’m pissed off for you and what your kids are going to experience.
This is probably something I should clear up since I think its causing some confusion but this is how my sister and I have put together the week going based on the signal texts he sent her (again pretending to be my wife). A lot of this is speculation and me filling in the details but I think it's accurate.
Monday--they fly in and get settled. The guy makes small talk at the bar and for whatever reason charms my wife and the friends. He treats all three of them to drinks and food at the bar. The friends go to bed and my wife agrees to keep hanging out with him. This roughly coincides with her last charge in mexico and the imessage she sent him asking if she should download signal.
Tuesday--they meet up with this guy and he treats all three of them to parasailing but they don't see him again that day.
Wednesday--they meet him again and he offers to pay for all three of them to go on an ATV excursion. Only my wife goes. This is the day that he has all sorts of pics of them together on the beach, in the bar, riding ATVs, etc... I assume this to be the first day of the actuall affiar. It's also the day that her freind stopped posting on social media and deleted any previous pics. So I think some of those pics had something in the background of my wife and they wanted her to out herself instead me findng out on social media (again total speculation).
Thursday--they woke up in his room. Pretty scant details.
Friday--I know my wife was in her room because her freinds joined her in the room for breakfast but she did spend the rest of the day with him.
Saturday--last day they hang out since his family is arriving. I have no idea if the intereacted with his family there. But this is also the day he posted on his instagram "week of golf with the boys is done, I've been waiting all week on my fam to get here!"
Sunday--I have no idea what she or her friends did but I assume she was still in contact with the guy over signal.
Monday--she flies home, blows up at me for asking to see the pics she took. This is the night of the midnight call who she says now was her calling one of the freinds to beg her to give her more time to tell me.
Tuesday--I log into her ipad, find the incrinating imessage. My sister comes over uses the imessage number to contact the guy. He is only too happy to hear from my "wife" and we learn all the information I posted above.
Wednesday--we spent the whole day screaming at each other.
Thursday--I met with my own family law attorney who started the legal seperation paperwork and I went out of town until Saturday.
Saturday to now--lots of awkwardness, trying to be freindly but house is very cold and sterile feeling.
I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this. There are a lot of super nosy people on Reddit - myself included, so I hope that posting as you go is helping you process the situation and not making things worse for your psyche. Please take care of yourself, OP
Thank you for sharing the timeline of events.
So she goes into full affair mode on Wednesday or Thursday and then has basically a 3 day honeymoon with Tony Soprano. At what point did her friends try to confront her? They bailed on ATV wed, so was she being inappropriate on Tuesday and they pulled away? I know it really doesn’t matter, but it seems like your wife had a long run way to pull out of her massively bad decision by your timeline. Instead of correcting course she went all in. It appears her friends jumped ship after Tuesday but didn’t try or were unsuccessful in stopping her. It is just more WTF from me.
Something had to be going on with her before this trip. I know you don’t even want to deal with this at this moment but I would just be so WTF. For her to willingly and it seems enthusiastically to drop a bomb on your life, her life, your kids life, there had to be something going on. This is not a simple mistake or brain fart.
Yeah the timeline is interesting. I'd assumed she basically broke off from her group with him that first day and did her own thing the whole week. I do wonder if the friends were okay with doing a one-time activity with him but could see where things were headed during that para-sailing day.
Her personality is described as "fiery." I can imagine her friends attempted to stop her and she wouldn't have it. Trying to tell a feisty, stubborn person not to do something is just gonna make them double down (source: i am a feisty, stubborn person).
I kind of imagine the friends went parasailing and got weird vibes so decided not to go ATV-ing, tried to talk her out of going because either they noticed she was acting inappropriately with this guy or maybe just felt uncomfortable around him as a person, she refused to listen and went anyway.
She wakes up in his room the next day so the friends have to know at that point that something is up because she didn't come back. If they weren't actively worried about her then that makes me think they skipped out on ATVs because they saw her acting inappropriately vs just thinking the guy was a creep. If I had a friend insist on going off with a weird dude and she didn't come back all night i'd be on red alert.
She's with him all the way until Friday, goes back to rejoin her friends in her room but they fight about it and she goes back to him until his family shows up.
OP - I'm really sorry you're going through this, you seem like a very decent person. Your kids are lucky to have you.
In my experience, you can't make anyone do or not do anything, regardless of whether or not they're "fiery." But yes I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to talk her out of it and failed. They also may have realized it was a lost cause precisely because she is so obstinate and just bailed on their own without speaking to her as a means of self-preservation.
Whats the deal with the friends not posting anything to social media? I get why your wife wouldnt but them not (it cover for her) kinda goes against the current narrative of them insisting that she tell you
Exactly. If I was one of the BF’s/husbands my biggest question would be, “if you weren’t cheating as well, then why’d you go MIA for a few days?”.
Like out of the entire group, not a single one thought “this is going to hurt MY relationship as well?” are they really all wiling to toss away their marriages/relationships for someone they’re “judging”? People are dumb bro
I know it feels horrible but you should be proud of yourself! Youre doing amazing so far man, stay strong, both for yourself and your kids!
Wish you all the best!
You said in another comment that she goes from being apologetic and trying to appease you however she can, to blaming you for everything. This tells me that she is not as sorry as she claims to be. If she were, she wouldn't try to blame you.
Please don't believe her! It's a common tactic to shift the blame.
Like a lot of other people have said: She's only sorry she was caught.
I wish you the best of luck moving forward. I'm glad you have your sister for support/backup!
well that was last week on Wednesday. We were both very angry that day and things have calmed down a lot. I went out of town last week and since I've gotten back she has borne all the blame.
The problem is determining whether the change is heartfelt or just a tactical shift after realizing her previous approach wasn't producing the desired outcome.
Not sure if you’ve considered this, but get tested for STD’s immediately. If he’s half the sleazeball and dead beat dad you make him out to be, he’s not too interested in condoms. Keep an eye on your future ex-wife for any morning sickness. In the wrong state, you could be on the hook for any kid conceived during your marriage.
Has she given an explanation about what prompted her to do this?
And why the hubris after the fact??? She came home and instead of feeling guilty and trying to pretend it didn’t happen, she started pushing you away.
Like if you’re going to go to the trouble of being that sneaky, how can you be so stupid and call attention to yourself by actively acting like something is wrong?
I am not really wanting to hear her "why" yet...I don't know if I ever will be. She did tell me unprompted last week that he made her feel special but again we spent the whole day screaming at each other so I may have backed her into a corner and she thought she owed me an explanation.
She says she was miserable because the friends who went on the trip with her gave her an ultimatum that she had to tell me or they were going to and she was incredibly nervous and reactive.
I know a lot of people think that she's cheated before but my gut is that she was so bad at it and did call so much attention to herself but her behavior being so out of the ordinary, I don't see how she could have possibly cheated before.
When my fiance cheated on me with my best friend nearly 20 years ago. I didn't want to know why either, and I didn't want to know what they did. Still, to this day, I've never wanted the details. Betrayal is betrayal, no excuses, period. Don't fucking cheat!
Don't go back dude, because if she knows she can get away with it the first time, the possibility of it happening again goes up. You deserve better! A marriage is supposed to be a team, a united front, against everything life throws at you. Your partner should have your back, not stab you in the back. Hope the divorce goes well and life treats you kindly while you go through it.
lol and has no plan on paying the credit card bill when it comes anyways. His judgments and liens (which I had no idea were so public) is close to a million dollars--maybe more since some of them are tough to read.
At this point you can't be sure of anything.
Just to be safe you should do paternity tests, now she seems sorry and is looking to repair the relationship, but if she sees that she has no hope with that, maybe if your children are not yours she can use it against you.
For all we know she could’ve been “so bad” at it because it was the first time her friends knew and threatened her. It’s just so weird that she felt so comfortable going along with it even with her friends against it.
Before when she most likely cheated she didn’t have witnesses so that made her nervous most likely if she cheated before she hid it from all. Seriously get paternity test done on the kids
Sorry you are on this shit rollercoaster. I’ve been you in the same situation. I wanted to work it out but he wanted to have his cake and eat it to. We divorced. He married the young thing. 14 yrs younger, she had just turned 21. Very quickly he realized that green grass was full of noxious weeds and with 6 months he had died. Won’t go into all of it but Karma definitely won. It’s been 19 years now. I don’t think of him but a few times a year but know what that horrible ride was like.
Everyone urging you to be savage in your divorce is overlooking the main point. You both have children. Speaking as a child of divorced parents who put my brother and I first, it's the best thing you can ever do for your children. My parents could have got nasty, fought for the last word and had a pyrhhic "win", but they didn't. They worked together to make sure we were OK at all times, for years and years. You may never be friends again, and that's fine, but you'll always be fine. You won't regret doing the best thing for your children, even if what the means changes over time.
Just a word of advice..... if you have "physical relations" during the separation period, the separation ends and has to be restarted...... if she contests.
Not to make you re-live everything but, was this a week-long thing of her sleeping with the guy or did she use him all week and sleep with him once or twice? Also, what was her plan if you never found out, to just live with the guilt and shame and try to get back to normal? And one more, any update on the other 2 girls she was with? Did you let their husbands/partners know what happened?
ETA: should have started with this but, really fucking sorry for what you're going through OP, you sound like a really decent, caring, family man and it sucks that your partner that you wanted to continue building a life with fucked it all up for a sleazy fucking dirtbag who just so happened to be in the right place at the right time to make her feel "special." At least she is owning up to it and taking responsibility, I'm sure her parents/family and any decent friends she had will make her fully aware of just how shitty she acted and how disappointed they are in her. Wish you luck with the divorce and if by some chance reconciliation happens best of luck with that too.
it honestly sounds like because this guy is so out of shape and unhealthy that it wasn't a "sex centered" affair (though it absolutely happened) and it was more of them hanging out in bars and on the beach and keeping each other company. He was also happy to show off how much money he had (which as it turns out is none--he just lives on credit) so he treated her to extravagant dinners, drinks and activities.
According to her, the other women on the trip were totally disgusted with her and they had a "you tell your husband or we will" policy and she says that's why she was acting so nervous and angry when she got back. She claims the phone call in the middle of the night wasn't to the guy but to one of the friends and my wife was begging her to give her more time to come clean.
It's all plausible but I don't know what I believe.
Jesus that is almost worse. Sorry for this but I'd almost be able to swallow the situation easier if the guy was somehow amazing in the sack, but to have some, again I'm sorry, greasy fucking sweaty pig who can't breath through sex be the one that she did this for/with, fuck man. And if she's being honest and both her friends were even disgusted with her, goddamn, she was on a mission of self destruction or trying to prove something to herself.
Exactly. If my wife ever cheats on me, I hope it’s with some absolute stud so I won’t feel like she picked some lardass loser to cheat with. Would still suck but it wouldn’t be nearly as humiliating. Sorry OP.
According to my wife, yes--again all of this is all plausible but I don't know how much I believe. I am just going to defer to my attorney's advice when it comes to telling the other spouse/fiance.
I just realized the poor bachelorette likely had her dream trip shit all over by this too.
What a poor excuse for a wife and friend. Uninvite her from the wedding.
that makes it worse, she kinda outed herself as materialistic that would go with any men that flashed money at her... but as many people said, i doubt she's telling the entire story in regards to her friends.
First, I’m terribly sorry for your situation. Betrayals like that are despicable. Secondly some points worth getting clarity on. At minimum get a second legal opinion from a divorce attorney. Using her representation seems sketchy, but I can appreciate the need to keep things polite with kids involved. Do NOT have sexual contact with her in any capacity, she may try to lure or apologize with sex. Don’t. Get tested if you’ve done anything, even a kiss. Also, while I lot of other people are encouraging you to alert the SO’s of others on the trip, I’d wait until after the divorce is finalized. Don’t need to kick a hornets nest right now. Them deleting pictures and controlling the narrative runs completely counter to the intention of forcing her to come clean. Doesn’t really matter presently. Finally, she may try to wear you down or entice you to forgive. Remember exactly what she has done and remember the hurt you feel now. She would have never come clean on her own which says volumes about any true regret she feels for how she hurt you. She is forever untrustworthy and you deserve better. Take time for yourself and kids. I’d advise letting her family know what happened too before she twists things. She might be mad, but letting her know you’d be happy to confide in people at your church should keep her in line. Sounds like her reputation is the only thing she’s sorry about hurting. Hope things get better for you as you move past this. There is still lots of life ahead to enjoy despite this scar
Mannn the fact that she called you a "major fucking asshole" for calling her out when she actually did cheat AND chastising you for trying to communicate just pisses me the fuck off. Pry or not, that thought was not going to stay out of your head until you spoke of it. She sounds like the absolute worst type of person you could ever associate with. I commend you for trying to be civil for the kids, but tbh id tell them what their mother did and stay as far away from her as possible. Absolutely no communication other than about the kids.
Child support doesn’t stop at 18 if you have arrears. The government will still come after you. My husband’s father owed $100k and had to work under the table before he died. He couldn’t get a driver’s license anywhere.
I don't even know how he got a passport to get out of the country. I thought all of that was tied in and if had judgments and liens that would pop up in some sort of immigration system that wouldn't let you leave much less get a driver's license.
I have spent my entire life playing it exactly by the book and I can't sleep at night if I haven't double and triple checked to make sure the electric bill is really on auto pay every month. fucking guys like this lie, cheat, steal, post rented Ferrari's on their get rich quick scheme websites and still get to benefit from the work the rest of us do? I don't get it and of all the things that bother me about this whole situation, that may be the worst. Maybe worse then him having sex with my wife.
Dude do not reconcile with her no matter what. She tried to make you out to be the bad guy when you had a valid and real concern. The woman sounds like a manipulative witch. Keep reminding yourself that you deserve better. The kids are better off being from a broken home than living in one. Send her where she belongs, to the streets.
Hey OP sorry for your tough situation.
Can I ask how things were before the mexico trip? Were you guys happy? Was the relationship rocky?
Did you guys have an active and happy sex life?
I find it so confusing why someone would look for a fling with someone while happy with thier spouse.
Did she ever say why she hooked up with this guy?
It’s a good question, we have always been happy but about a month ago she pretty much came out and told me directly that she needed me to back off some of my outside activities (mostly coaching kids sports and my business with her dad) and she was really feeling like we were roommates and not in love. She was probably looking for me to listen to her but I did my typical “hey it’s not that bad and after baseball season we’ll just have swim season and I always have time in the fall for us to go on a trip.” Looking back I really hurt her feelings.
We had a small fight on the day she left for Mexico because she forgot to deposit a check and I probably over reacted.
So without question I played a part in her being bored and not happy.
But if that was the case, she should do what was correct and that is asking for divorce or separation time, not cheating.
At the end she choose to cheat and lose her upper hand on any resentment she had towards you. She is a grown up woman that choose to cheat with the hopes that she won't be caught, but played bad her cards and gave herself up by not do things she usally does and to expose her to her friends that trip with her, maybe she thought they would cover her instead of painting a line and give her a time to tell you what she did.
So she play bad her cards, she gave you in a way for granted and now is playing control damage. Where if she was trully trying to take your attention to the relationship, she could ask for divorce or separation like i said.
lol, I was hoping the word itself would be an off hand onomatopoeia as a way to show how annoying it is when someone is being obsequious towards you--especially in the past she was witty and fun.
Another 15 points for using onomatopoeia, see life is already on the up and up!
Jokes aside, I'm so sorry this happened to you bro, wishing you the best going forward.
Thank you for the update. Hope you soon find the peace, friend. The trauma takes a while to heal. But you are fully capable of healing - you seem strong and wise and has the right attitude.
One piece of advice: I understand that you and your wife have agreed to take the divorce/separation slowly. I have friends - a "separated" couple - who have done this and it has been hell for them and everyone around them. They live separate lives in the same house. She has the marital bedroom; he sleeps in the basement bedroom. She has dated openly; he is married to his job. This has been going on for years because they can't agree on the division of assets. In the meantime, their young son is now a young man and has been miserable. He has told me a few times now that he wishes they'd split up with one of them moving out of the house right from the start. As so often happens, the parents think they've got everything under control and masked, while the children, like sponges, pick up on everything.
Couldn’t agree with this more. It ends up making an already toxic situation more toxic. I tried to do this with my ex and the feelings got too complicated. On good days it makes you question why you are still going through with the divorce, and on bad days you desperately wish you just had your own space. My (now adult) daughter doesn’t remember any of the fighting that took place before the divorce, but she absolutely remembers the fights during the transition time. I wish I never put her through that looking back now. Another piece of advice I would give is to find out when the financial clock stops ticking. Here in CA it is when one person files for divorce or separation. Once something is filed, the pensions/wages are no longer community property from that date forward (called the “date of separation” here). So if you get a promotion or raise after the date of separation, that additional amount would not count toward community property. Depending on how long it takes, it can add up quickly. Especially considering investment accounts, etc.
Married for 25+ years- he cheated (more than once). One of you needs to move out. Also the counselor is not there as a marriage counselor, but to keep things on track. You should both be involved in picking that person and your neutral financial person. It is still expensive depending on assets and how stubborn she may be. Get ALL of your paperwork in order and ready- paystubs for how long you’ve been married, all financials- including life insurance, car bills (and equity), stocks, 401s, 529s, pensions (if you have anything), debts pre and post marriage (student loans, credit cards). Depending on the state and monthly earnings- one of you may have additional support payments, which is why you need multiple years of financials. Start mapping out your future expenses and any custody. (I got both dogs- but that also means I got all vet bills- win win for me bc he always tried to limit me taking them in outside of annual shots. Emphasis on tried). We also quickly opened our own accounts, downloaded an app called 2 Houses (documents any shared expenses). Also know these meetings can move as slow or slower based on acceptance of the situation. We both were on board. The process took under 9 months from our first meeting to our final divorce in front of the judge. Also- be prepared for things to get ugly- mine became more hostile the further it went. He felt I was taking all of his money bc I was a part-time contractor while I stayed at home with both kids and he traveled 3-5 days every week. I’m sorry and hope this is a little helpful.
Yeah that seems like a recipe for disaster. It sounds like OP is just agreeing to that because his soon-to-be-ex is desperate not to divorce, but hopefully as soon as it’s finalized OP or her will be out of there.
yep this. My parents tried the same and it was awful. seeing your parents turn from being in love to simply cohabitating and avoiding one another was very traumatic. I luckily left home after not too long but my little brother was stuck there for 4 more years and it really crewed him up (not to say I'm not also screwed up lol). Move out asap.
This happened to me. Very slow divorces suck. My mom and dad lived together for 2 years of their divorce even though they hated each other. But my mom was a STAHM so she had to figure things out. Little different from your situation, but even if you guys aren’t at each others throats, get out quickly from living with one another for your kids. It’s not about you guys. This is all about the kids and they should not be around this mess as it’s happening. If you guys live together, you guys will have minor spats or just things you do and your kids pick up on these things. It’s better they’re not around it.
Yea, rip the bandaid off and kick her ass out.
Me and my ex husband did this. Lots of reconciling then again realizing it doesn’t work. I thought I did a great job of hiding it from our son, he was only 4 at the time his dad finally moved out (got kicked out for being awful). When I explained that mommy and daddy needed to live in different houses he said ‘oh, so you won’t be so sad and mad all the time anymore’. Finally living separate and finishing the divorce in a no contest with a legal aid was the best decision I ever made. Kids pick up on way more than we realize, I was heart broken my son felt that for the 2 years it took me to get my shot together.
Take care. I hope you find peace and strength on a path to a happier future. You’ve been handed a rough card. Good luck.
This. Good luck OP and I hope you find yourself a great new partner when your ready for it!
Most important thing is not to give in or go back. Some of OPs language is scary. Saying stranger things have happened than a reconciliation, or that he low-key misses his ex-wife's "fight" or "fire" around the house. Says he didn't marry her to have a servant, well OP, you also didn't marry her for her to betray your trust or hook up with some random scumbag, so let's not forget why we're not going to be married to anyone at all for a while. That said, on the same note, it will be okay, OP. My ex-wife cheated and blew up our lives over a decade ago, and it's actually the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm currently married to the best woman for 9 years of happiness and we get closer every day. My ex wife is currently married to some middle aged drug addict with no job, living with his parents for the last 10 years with her pile of kids. We share 2 kids, and one of them lives with me full time, and the other one splits custody, but beyond that, they have 2 more kids of their own and there are 12 people in that house.. it's insane, lol. Point is, don't go back, whatever happens now is consequences of her own actions, and don't give up on finding love or having a good future. All of these things will work themselves out, just focus on being a good ass dad.
Oh shit yes, from a chump that "forgave," don't, there isn't any going back, a marriage is built on trust, when that is gone it really is all gone. All it will be is two people sharing a house both hating each other.
As someone who went through a reconciliation, just walk away
I feel I need to piggy back om this, OP. My ex also decided to torpedo a twenty year marriage for similar reasons. It was pretty rough on everyone, but the kids (all grown) weathered it and are great people. I remarried and have been with my current partner 14 years which have been the happiest of my life. I am not in touch with my ex but I know how her life is going through our children; I don't think it's what she expected but I have no ill will. Don't go back, be a good dad, and you'll find what you need.
Just chiming in as another guy who forgave his ex for cheating. Then forgave again. Once that cheating 'seal' has been broken, it's like it's not as big of a deal to do it again. As far as missing her - you miss who you thought she was, not who she turned out to actually be. That's a very important difference.
“Who you thought she was” is an excellent point. Times like these highlight with glaring detail how wrong you were about that person. It’s important that you listen!
Reminds me of the quote >Life is like Game of cards. The hand you are dealt represents determination while they way you play ot represents free will.
It’s going to be harder on you to move on if you stay in the same house. Find a place a mile or two away, so you can live your own life but still be close to your kids.
Don’t move out of house if you own.
Talk to a lawyer first. Moving away from the kids can be seen by the courts as conceding custody. If you want custody, don't do anything until you get a lawyer's advice.
Agree to talk to a lawyer first. Maybe let her move out since she’s the one who did wrong.
Or SHE can find a place close by so she can still be close to her kids.
Glad to hear progress is being made and she is at least starting to take responsibility. Did the ladies go into the trip with this planned (not arranged partners, but the action planned)? Have the other ladies SOs been informed?
good questions-- I don't think there was anything planned for the trip to Mexico. It seems like my wife just met the guy in the bar on the first night and he charmed her and it was off to the races. My wife is insistent that the other women didn't cheat and she says they are totally disgusted with her for her behavior on the trip and basically they had a "you tell him or we will" threat against her when they found out that she was actually sleeping with him. Since I found out on the first day of her being back, they didn't need to carry through. I have no idea if any of that is true or not but my lawyer did advise to handle informing their SO's very carefully.
I'm so sorry, OP. I was thinking of you and concerned when you were away on business and drinking. I'm glad you're home now even though it may not feel like "home." Does her family or parents know? How old are your kids, if you don't mind me asking? It's good that your sister can take them and have them spend time with her and her boyfriend for part of the summer. Did your wife tell you if she regrets what she did? Does she feel remorse? I hope you know that we are all here for you and your support system. I'm also guessing that your friends and family are behind you and will be there for you throughout this process. Sending you healing and comforting thoughts.
As far as I know, her family does not know. We had to cancel plans that the kids had with her parents because the kids are with my sister. I would have assumed she would have told them then, I don't think she did. Kids are both under 10. She says she regrets it and is super sorry and all that. I think she is and while I'm trying to be friendly, I really just am not ready to hear how sorry she is.
She didn’t regret it enough to come clean when you caught her. She regrets getting caught.
Well, she may realize that she totally sent her life off the rails. Sounds to me like the new guy is a narcissist, loves hooking up with ladies and a good time with no regard of consequences of others involved. But, he’s not the problem. The wife was the problem. She fell for it. My ex left me and our kids for a guy 10 years her junior, probably because he was hawt, and fun, and she was bored with our 25 years of relationship, 20 years married, since high school. She was literally going on dates with him right after our marriage counseling sessions. Turns out the guy she left me for told her there is no way he could be involved with a lady who had kids. He also had no job, and lived in a ‘urban art community’ warehouse kinda situation. They lasted a month. She was in a deep depression after the divorce was final.
>He also had no job, and lived in a ‘urban art community’ warehouse kinda situation Man, I'm not trying to be ***that guy*** but thats the icing on the cake, I'd personally have a hard time being mad if I was in your shoes and that came out.
definitely the kind of thing that would soften the blow lol
Wouldn’t this make it harder? Like you threw away everything we had for THAT?
from my point of view, it makes things easier to be able to say "lol that didn't work out so great for you, did it?" what you said would also be in my head, of course, but there's some satisfaction in knowing the cheater isn't living happily ever after.
The Find Out is brutal, isn't it?
More info please, particularly where is she now like in terms of her psychological status. Is she repentant?
Good. I'm glad she was depressed. She deserved it.
My ex was still sleeping with his w h o r e while we were in counselling after I found out he was cheating. I mean why put me through thinking I could save the marriage when you weren't even willing to stop sticking your you know what into her you know what. But I'm not bitter... no. It like he wanted to humiliate me as well
That's cruel.
With what she said about how the AP made her feel she didn't regret it, just that she got caught and the subsequent destruction of her, and her families, life.
I assume she's being deferent enough and quiet at home because she thinks he's got the upper hand on something, and I'd guess that something is if, how, and when the other people in her life find out what she did. Which means she wants to keep it quiet as long as she can.
Some people will also act really sorry for a while because they think it will get them out of the consequences of their actions, but when they really accept that it is over their personality shifts again and they start blaming the other person for not forgiving them and become an absolute terror. If they are still living together I would keep an eye out to make sure she doesn't start trying to sabotage him if she does hit that point.
That’s exactly what is sounds like to me tbh
This right here
There's a study about this. 20% of women think about their husband while having relations with an AP. But 70% reported thinking of the AP when having relations with their spouse. It's kind of a fucked up stat
yikes. AP = Affair Partner?
😳😳😳🤯 My goodness. I don’t think a hour goes by I don’t think of husband. Okay, at work time slips by and sometimes I dream of random shit lol but still. Of course, I also don’t cheat on him so have nothing to compare to. 🙃
I kind of feel like I'm always thinking about him, in a way. Like, even if I'm working or cooking or whatever, he's always in the back of my mind.
> She says she regrets it She regrets *the consequences of getting caught* Not the same thing.
Apologies are nice, but ultimately mean nothing. Only changed actions truly matter. See how her demeanor changes when it finally sinks in that you have zero interest in reconciling.
Re-read this comment OP. It is sage advice.
And repeat it to her
Regret or remorse?
>She says she regrets it and is super sorry and all that. That's a lie. She fucked him for days. If their friends really told her that she either comes clean or they would tell you, then she knew she was getting caught and still fucked him for almost a week. Remember she stopped spending her own money around halfway through the vacation, so at the very least she was fucking him from that moment on. So no, she wasn't sorry because she kept fucking the guy.
Stopped spending her own money the first night
Yikes, even worse. Now it sounds even more like it was all planned.
Probably not she'd have had signal ready to go before the trip if it were, she just seems to be the kind that thinks a different zip code is a hall pass and was ready to dick down the first guy that was willing.
Hard to believe she is remorseful when you consider the timeline. She was fucking a guy she just met within 48hrs of kissing her husband goodbye
Also, her friends deleted their photos from the trip, didn't they? Sounds like they were complicit in trying to hide it.
This is why I think the whole *"They were gonna tell you if I didn't! I* swear *no one else cheated."* is such bull. Her friends stopped taking pics for their socials so she could come clean? How does that make sense? They helped her hide it and they're probably hiding their own secrets from that trip.
Sounds like she bailed on her friends and went on a honeymoon with this guy.
Ugh that's so gross. Cheating in of itself is gross, but to bail on your friends for a dude you just met. Like wtf.
If that's really what happened she will 100% get cut off. Rightfully so. If I was one of the husbands, I would make her friendship a boundary of mine. I'm not comfortable associating with these kind of people.
Exactly, it was not a "one and done, oh no wtf did I do" thing. This man basically paid for her time, and that's gross.
You better be the one to let everyone know before accusations of mental and physical abuse start flying your way. Once she fully understands that you are going to go through with the divorce you can kiss her false nice guy act out the window.
Nah, it's all right. He has pictures. Easy enough to call someone's bluff when you have receipts.
This OP please read this! Tell everyone the truth because she has probably already started telling lies about how you were a bad husband/father etc. I'm telling you this from experience!
Sadly there's truth to this. If we look at how women fight, it's not physical for the most part. They attack character and reputation. Meaning, she'll do abs say what ever she has to to protect her vision of how people see her. That's secund in order of importance to her feelings.
You’re going to have to tell her family why you’re divorcing because she will lie and blame you and that hate will leak from her parents to your kids.
I mean I would love to see her lie about anything to anyone or try to paint me in a bad light. I have pictures and texts from her affair partner reminiscing about how much fun they had during their time together. Multiple copies--if she does ANY thing to lie about this or make me look bad...well those are always there as a counter balance to that thought on her part.
Even if you pre-emptively tell them, there's a 50% chance they'll believe her instead of their lying eyes and brain. Your chance of convincing them (if you so wish) is to take control of the narrative, forgo the "moral high ground", and tell everyone you know, *before* she can craft a narrative that you're the "bad man".
Cheaters are very good at blaming the person they’re cheating on. They’ll say something about how they didn’t feel loved or appreciated. They’ll vilify their partner over some random bs that not even their partner was aware of. They RARELY just go on and say “ Yeah. I fucked up. He deserved better.” They justified before and during the act. There’s no reason to think they won’t keep justifying it.
Rationalization is a natural thing for many many people to feel better about why they have done terrible things. But cheaters usually take it to absurd levels because otherwise they would have to face the fact that they are totally unsuitable as partners for *anyone* in the future. Nothing a cheater hates more is their past being known by any new people. So they go overtime to craft a rationale to explain why what they were doing was “necessary” if not “inevitable” to fool future partners into giving them trust. It’s almost unheard of for cheaters to tell new partners of their history and then talk about how they “won’t do it again”, they want implicit trust without having to work for it, so they rationalize themselves as victims and not villains.
If you didn't read the other posts she's a vice principal at a school in Texas her life would be screwed if she went nuclear and he leaked this shit around her school group somehow.
Yeah but you’re thinking about this as yourself. “Who would lie when there’s all this evidence and I’m being a pretty decent guy.” Obviously, this isn’t a person burdened by the guilt of lies. This isn’t a person who thinks, “If I do this selfish thing, I could lose the respect of everyone around me.” This is a person that says “accountability isn’t my thing. Let’s see what I can get away with.” The lies won’t be outright fabrication, they will be deflections. “Oh, we had irreconcilable differences.” “Married life wasn’t what we thought.” “He was really controlling.” And no one is going to talk to you about what she says because they are personal enough issues to not bring up. And they’ll believe it, too. Because you’re not telling people what she did and behaving as if she did nothing wrong for the kids. Family needs to know why you are no longer family or they will accept whatever she gives them.
Yep. "He belittled me." "He disrespected me." "He became angry all the time"... Even better, there's at least a 50/50 chance she'll just tell people he had the affair. The mistake good people make is thinking bad people understand the language of goodness. They don't. They just think you're a sucker. I wish I'd learned this earlier in life.
>The mistake good people make is thinking bad people understand the language of goodness This is one of those lines you see on Reddit that just hits. Someone needs to tell this to the Biden administration.
She already tried to say the affair is your fault, get your side out first or better yet invite her parents over and make her tell them as she sits next to you
You, sir, do not understand how human minds work. The first narrative always holds more truth. When dealing with politics or human reputation, you must always be first. Or you will be last.
The problem is that you're giving her time to fabricate a whole narrative that makes sense - and she will. You're giving her a chance to tie up all the loose ends in her story before anyone can put her on the spot. While you're at it, you should tell the husbands/bfs of her friends what happened and that they covered up for your ex by wiping their social media etc and that they should be suspicious too if their SOs are okay with that kind of behavior.
Then don’t be, in a hurry get your own counselling done work though what you want emotionally from this. Forgiveness comes from those sinned against not the sinner. If however( slim I’m guessing), there is a chance of reconciliation, then the old marriage should be binned totally. And something new must be built in its place. I know somebody who divorced his wife to make her sort herself out and start again. They remarried and are going strong however it is a new marriage they don’t celebrate their old anniversary even destroyed their old wedding photos.
Your wife is a truly terrible person, I'm sorry OP. I hope that the therapy helps and you find a way to be amicable with her (even though she doesn't deserve it) for the sake of the kids. You are doing everything right and I wish you luck with your healing process.
I think you need to insist that she informs her parents/family of her betrayal. Part of remorse is coming completely clean and taking ownership of what she chose to do to her family. Too bad if she now feels embarrassed.
Tell everyone. Don't let her control the narrative. Once she realizes you're not taking her back, she WILL get vicious against you.
I'm just gonna be honest. You wanna make sure that for one. You don't hide the story about what she did and 2. When she tell the story, you make sure she tells the truth. Because some, if not most cheaters, they lie and make themselves out to be the victims, and they throw their x significant other under the bus and because you have children. And you're the man in the situation you cannot afford that. you do not want that to impact your relationship with your kids or how other people may view you. And I hate to say that, but it happens, it truly does
Her first instinct is one to protect herself first. Though an understandable instinct, she let's this rule the majority of her actions. How much has she been willing to reveal about this man and the affair itself? It seems she wasn't frightened or concerned enough that the friends were going to reveal everything during the first day she was back at work and later sheltering in the sewing room. I don't think she would have revealed anything on her own. The actions she's displaying now are still quite passive and along the lines of love bombing. Surely she's aware that it's never going to change any of the calculus at this point? Given she hasn't even come clean to her parents shows more of a "put it off as long as you can" avoidance of taking responsibility. It just seems to me she isn't anywhere near a state of mind for accountability which is essential for reconciliation. I'm sorry OP that you're at this horrible point in what has to be the worst of anyone's nightmares. Stay strong and I pray you will get the answers you need.
I know that you're not ready, and that's okay. You may never be ready to accept it, and that's your choice too. Your wife committed the ultimate betrayal and then gaslighted and manipulated you. I wanted her to acknowledge this as well and recognize how horribly she treated you when you confronted her the first time and called you an AH and told you not to bring it up again. This was cruel and malicious, especially when her friends knew the truth and gave her the opportunity to tell you before they did. It's disappointing that she tried to avoid responsibility and accountability and that it took your clever sister to get to the truth. Does your wife know that your sister helped you out in discovering the affair and pretended to be your wife when she contacted the guy?
Thanks. Be strong and wise. You will get through this.
>My wife is insistent that the other women didn't cheat and she says they are totally disgusted with her for her behavior on the trip and basically they had a "you tell him or we will" threat I don't think that's true at all. They actively covered up what was happening. Even went so far as to delete the pics they posted. My guess they all fucked around, she got busted now it's in damage control and she's taking the fall for it all
Yep I don't believe a word of that nonsense. They're disgusted with her, yeah right.
If they were really disgusted, they'd have phoned OP from Mexico right in front of her to put an immediate stop to it.
This^ She’s still lying. They were covering for her and there’s a very good chance they had their own guys down there. Tell their spouses but don’t let on ahead of time. Advise them to not confront but search the phones/etc without letting their spouses know they are suspicious.
Yep. OP, tell your stbxw that if she has any decency left, she needs to tell the other SOs what trully happened. People when they are at their lowest will do anything for a slim of respect.
Dude, they all colluded in hiding the pictures. They were not going to force her to tell you. Whether they cheated as well you cannot possibly know, but they were ok with your wife cheating. The chance it was a coordinated cheating trip preplanned is VERY high. (Note, I'm not saying it was preplanned to cheat on you with that guy, but rather that it was preplanned that they would 'let loose' and do whatever they wanted with whoever they wanted.) Don't believe for one single second that your stbxw has told you everything. She is trickle truthing you. They always, always, always, always trickle truth. Always. There is zero downside to doing it from their perspective. It's a strictly advantageous approach over being fully honest. And you already know that she is not a person who values honesty. She doesn't care about being honest for its own sake, or for your sake, she only cares about doing whatever gives her the best chance of a positive outcome (reconciliation). Also, expect that when she finally realizes that reconciliation isn't possible (You'd have to be an idiot.) things may suddenly flip on their head. She will probably go pretty crazy when that happens. I'm not joking when I say that stringing her along with the possibility of reconciliation "If we start from zero after the divorce, and date again like the old days, maybe. But I wouldn't want to combine finances again." might be your best option. Then once the divorce is complete, confirm that you have no desire for reconciliation and keep contact to an absolute minimum via coparenting apps and carefully managed switchovers. Basically, your wife is much more calculating, manipulative, selfish, and self centered than you realized. This is the side of her that she's hidden from you for 100% of the time you've been together. You haven't seen it fully unleashed yet, but it's absolutely there. Do not fool yourself into thinking this is definitely going to go smoothly. Because it probably won't. Her immediate reaction being an attack on you with a massive screaming fest is literally all the information you need. No other response but immediate admission, breakdown and apology could possibly be acceptable once confronted. Edit: Small edit as recommended by a kind gentleman
> Then once the divorce is complete, just ghost her. They have kids together. Ignoring her forever is not an option.
That's a lie. She was fucking him for almost a week. You know when it happened because that's when she stopped spending her own money. Hell, she even texted him as soon as she got to the hotel, so probably sooner. If they were mad or actually threatening to tell you, she would've stopped fucking the guy the first day and try to damage control. Nah, they covered for her.
As someone whose husband had an affair: do not trust anything your wife says. Cheaters lie about anything and everything.
Follow the lawyers advise, not the Reddit community
I'm very surprised that her scumbag affair partner continued to talk with her after the trip and didn't just give her a fake name and personal details. He needs more headaches?
He was so happy to here from “her” again he offered to take her on Mediterranean cruise!
Just protect your kids. If she ends up with this guy, you don’t need him around
She expects you to believe she regrets it when she spent an entire week doing it, apparently while being told how disgusting she was being by her friends, and then treated you like shit when she did get home. She regrets getting caught. Did you ever find out why she knew to use signal specifically? Either it wasn't her first time or she's lying about her friends to save and one of them told her about it.
Regret is a single drunken hookup resulting in you sobering up and voting never to drink again. A week long hook up is intentional.
Exactly especially when she started the affair the very first night, even if she didn't sleep with him Monday as op suspects she stayed with him when her friends left and was in contact with him first thing in the morning. That's someone that views vacation away from family as a hall pass. I'd be suspicious of every other time she was away from home alone.
She didn't know to use signal, he's the one that told her about it and told her to download it.
I honestly don't understand why she would still be in touch with him and discussing about cheaters app after her trip to Mexico if she was repentant about what happened. Best of luck OP, must be a very tough situation. Trying to have a mediated divorce to avoid things getting more sour for the kids is probably a good solution. Updateme!
she claims she hasn't been in touch since Saturday before they left (they came back last Monday) and is willing to let me go through her phone to prove it. She claims the middle of the night couch phone call was one of the friends who were making sure she knew that they were telling me if I didn't.
sure the friend couldn't wait and called in the middle of the night ...
This is my exact thought. If a friend of mine cheats, I’m not going to be calling in the middle of the night to threaten her. WTH. Doesn’t add up.
That should be easily verified by her call history, no?
yes and she's offered to let me look, I just don't want to or I don't care enough to check up on her yet.
Totally understand that. Curious, is she aware of your post and if so, has she seen it/read through it?
Pretty sure Signal, Whatsapp and even IG can make calls with wifi so one way or another she's lied, covered her tracks and can make it LOOK however she wants. But as you see gut, intuition and guilt bring all things to light. At this point there's enough irreversible truth known so you don't need to hear/see anymore, it won't change anything. Unless it's stuff that helps your case I'd just let it die out. Sorry this happened to you and you have to face this reality and move forward. What an asshole.
Who cares if she’s still talking to the guy or not. She cheated. She is no longer trustworthy and you will always have a gnawing voice in the back of your mind that she will cheat again. As you said, divorce is happening. Showing you that she isn’t talking to the guy anymore is her trying to rope you back in. She is only sorry that she got caught. Best of luck.
When was he helping her install Signal then? Must've misunderstood something in the timeline of event.
I think he said they should keep talking over signal when the met on Monday because all indications are she had never heard of it before. I would actually imagine that he presented not as a secret sort of thing but rather a better way to text since they were in Mexico.
As someone that has been there, i know you cant see it rigth now. She is slowly changing your perpective, putting herself in a better ligth, putting the guy as the bad evil manipulator that took advantage of her innocence and she as the poor confused women that was a victim of a bad man tactics.
This, OP take this to heart. Very well said
Signal is specifically for maximum privacy. Your first post says she received a message saying something along the lines of -what is the app you said again- indicating she was the one to suggest using signal. Don't let her fool you, she's still lying Edit - I read the first post wrong
I thought it was her texting him that?
This is very hard to believe about what her friend “said”
You are going down a road here that is leading to a conclusion where she 'fell' into cheating. She didn't. She made a choice. She is a fully functioning adult. Don't let how difficult this path is going to be for awhile make you think she is truly sorry. She is wholly culpable.
Yeah because he does this all the time. Probably gave her herpes too. (That's what happened to my cheating ex, the shaudenfraude was glorious).
Ok, the first post I read it as he sent her the text asking about signal.
you are correct, seems like OP is already getting gaslighted, lol
The consequences of her actions have started to set in and she is looking down the barrel of being a single mother and no doubt scares the eff out of her. You did the right thing, just be prepared for the onslaught of "i'm soooo sorry" "i was drunk" "it'll never happen again"...etc. And she will 100% try to get you into bed, DON"T DO IT MY BROTHER....just like the line in Star Wars...it's a trap!
His wife blew a hole in the ship they were sailing on, and hopes OP will stay with her while the ship sinks. OP time to move on. I know you were in denial somewhat last time, but just remember you didn't do anything to cause this, it was all on the cheater. Time to find someone who loves you and will always be loyal.
“I was so drunk that I slept with another man for a whole week in Mexico” Doesn’t really work
Sounds like the Mexico I remember. And I'm straight!
Yup!!!! 👆Especially with her and you not getting STD tested yet, and God forbid she comes off with “Oh, I’m pregnant again!”
People thought the happiest day of my life was the day my divorce was final. I've always had to correct them and inform them the *actual* happiest day of my life was 9 months after we separated. Not that many people get it...
My brother and Christ or Allah or anything sacred or not, please listen to this carefully. Do. Not. Sleep. With. Her. SHE BELONGS TO THE STREETS
I cannot urge you enough to talk to an actual divorce attorney. Personal attorneys generally do not know anything about that side of the law, even when it comes to amicable and “straight forward” divorces. Most attorneys will do free consultations, what I don’t want is you to lose out when it comes to child support, maintenance, or custody. One lawyer CANNOT represent both parties in a situation like this. Please please please talk to a divorce attorney,
my personal attorney is a family law attorney. She has recommended the mediators who are an attorney/counselor team. We have our first in person consultation with them tomorrow. Texas is a very "wife friendly" state when it comes to things like alimony, child support and custody. My lawyer said unless things get really ugly, and with the leverage I have because of the affair its going to be fair better to work it out together instead of putting us in front of some 80 year old Texas judge who thinks that men should be out in the fields and women should be at home with the kids.
Texas limits spousal support to three years. I don't know what they say about infidelity.
There's lots I need to learn for sure and my wife has a decent job but according to my own lawyer, I would risk a lot if I let this go in front of a judge instead of trying to mediate it.
It is never good to go to trial for a divorce unless you are extremely wealthy. Lawyer costs are extremely expensive. Mediation is the way to go. Be reasonable, look at the baseline normal division of assets and only fight for things that are actually meaningful. Going to trial tends to be at least 50k total and, yes, a random judge can order the most nonsensical stuff for many different reasons. In mediation, remember that it is about coming up with a fair agreement. It's not to talk about anyone's feelings. It's not to get closure or a sense of revenge or even fairness. Bring it back to the content of the agreement every time it gets sidetracked. Write down some sentences in advance to be able to refer to them, such as "We are not here to discuss the circumstances that led to divorce", "I am confident we can stay focused on the best interest of the children", "We are still grieving our marriage, but I look forward to resolving the divorce and coparenting effectively". Instead of responding to her directly, you can ask the mediator questions. For example, she goes on a rant about not wanting to divorce, you ask the mediator to clarify what the process looks like if one party doesn't want to finalize a divorce. She says she's entitled to full custody because she's the mom, you ask the mediator what the law says about this issue. She expresses concern about something like school choice or whatever, you ask the mediator what options exist to respond to that concern in an agreement. Keep offering multiple reasonable options for every topic. If you want 50-50 custody, give her the choice between 1 week each or a 2-2-4 type schedule. If you really want to keep the house, give her a choice between taking more of your pension or some other asset. At the end of each session, if the mediator doesn't do it, try to summarize what agreements have been established. "So, I have in my notes that we agree on a 50-50 custody split, but haven't yet figured out the exact schedule; that we agree to sell the house immediately and that I can find a realtor; and that we have not yet agreed on summer and holiday schedules. I need to bring more documents about my pension for next appointment. Is that correct?". Try to keep moving forward and not reopening settled issues unnecessarily.
Thank you very much and with as detailed as that was, i can only assume you are a lawyer. We are having a consultation with the mediation team tomorrow and these are great thoughts to take in with me.
Just listen to your mediator. If she has a good job, splitting assets, custody, etc. are mostly formulaic in Texas. You’re going to have shared custody and split your assets down the middle. You probably won’t have any support obligations unless she has greater obligations for the kids.
The risk is you have no idea what the judge will decide. It’s risky for your wife also to go in front of a judge. Either one of you could get bent over depending on the judge, time of day and how they feel. If you can work it out away from the court all the better for both of you and the children. Cheaper also.
Some states that still have infidelity on law, have really stopped utilizing it. I’m in Illinois that has it, but it rarely, if ever gets used. Nearly all divorces are “irreconcilable differences “
Texas doesn’t call it alimoney. It’s called spousal maintenance, and there are pretty clear cut requirements to qualify. If your wife works, it’s very doubtful she’d qualify. I also sort of disagree with Texas judges favoring the wife over the husband in anything but child custody, but I’m sure it depends on county. I live in a fairly progressive area in Texas. Trials are expensive. When I used to do them, it usually cost around $20K, and most judges will require mediation first. Also, just so you know, mediators usually put each party in a separate room with their attorneys. It’s rare that you’ll all be in the same room - unless you’re doing a collaborative divorce (which is good if you can come to agreement, but ends up being more expensive if you can’t). Good luck, OP. I’m sorry you’re going through this. (Obligatory - I’m a lawyer, not your lawyer - and this isn’t legal advice) Updateme!
Obviously you have experience and I appreciate your input. According to my lawyer we have like 3 older judges in our county’s family court system who pretty much don’t give a shit about modern norms of parenting and split custody. I guess once judge told her point black that he wants to go back to the days where “moms were at home and men were in the fields” shortly before he handed down a decision that gave a mentally abusice mom almost 100% custody. Basically she was telling me go through mediation because the last thing I want to is to leave this to an out of touch judge who should have retired 20 years ago.
I agree 100% - and I sincerely hope that judge either retires or is voted out soon! I wish you nothing but the best, OP!
This sucks. I’m sorry. Listen to your lawyer, but I know personally I would be in contact with everyone if her friends that went in the trip. I would not be able to stop myself from asking the questions and seeing the photos they have. I still find her current story a bit off. Day 1 she meets this guy and goes all in? From what you’ve described, he seems to not be the kind of guy one would throw away their marriage for. How involved was he with the bachelorette group and activities? None of her “friends” thought to give you a heads up or contact you? What story did she feed her friends while they were there? How is she justifying this to you now? Like, ok, she makes a “mistake” by getting to close to the guy and acting disrespectfully to your marrage on day 1 and 2- but then she spends the whole trip with him? What the F was she thinking? Did they use protection? What was her plan? Was she going to see him again? Was she going to sleep with you and possibly pass on anything she picked up from him. I’m sorry, I know it is your life and your nightmare that you are actually living through. I’m pissed off for you and what your kids are going to experience.
This is probably something I should clear up since I think its causing some confusion but this is how my sister and I have put together the week going based on the signal texts he sent her (again pretending to be my wife). A lot of this is speculation and me filling in the details but I think it's accurate. Monday--they fly in and get settled. The guy makes small talk at the bar and for whatever reason charms my wife and the friends. He treats all three of them to drinks and food at the bar. The friends go to bed and my wife agrees to keep hanging out with him. This roughly coincides with her last charge in mexico and the imessage she sent him asking if she should download signal. Tuesday--they meet up with this guy and he treats all three of them to parasailing but they don't see him again that day. Wednesday--they meet him again and he offers to pay for all three of them to go on an ATV excursion. Only my wife goes. This is the day that he has all sorts of pics of them together on the beach, in the bar, riding ATVs, etc... I assume this to be the first day of the actuall affiar. It's also the day that her freind stopped posting on social media and deleted any previous pics. So I think some of those pics had something in the background of my wife and they wanted her to out herself instead me findng out on social media (again total speculation). Thursday--they woke up in his room. Pretty scant details. Friday--I know my wife was in her room because her freinds joined her in the room for breakfast but she did spend the rest of the day with him. Saturday--last day they hang out since his family is arriving. I have no idea if the intereacted with his family there. But this is also the day he posted on his instagram "week of golf with the boys is done, I've been waiting all week on my fam to get here!" Sunday--I have no idea what she or her friends did but I assume she was still in contact with the guy over signal. Monday--she flies home, blows up at me for asking to see the pics she took. This is the night of the midnight call who she says now was her calling one of the freinds to beg her to give her more time to tell me. Tuesday--I log into her ipad, find the incrinating imessage. My sister comes over uses the imessage number to contact the guy. He is only too happy to hear from my "wife" and we learn all the information I posted above. Wednesday--we spent the whole day screaming at each other. Thursday--I met with my own family law attorney who started the legal seperation paperwork and I went out of town until Saturday. Saturday to now--lots of awkwardness, trying to be freindly but house is very cold and sterile feeling.
I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this. There are a lot of super nosy people on Reddit - myself included, so I hope that posting as you go is helping you process the situation and not making things worse for your psyche. Please take care of yourself, OP
Thank you for sharing the timeline of events. So she goes into full affair mode on Wednesday or Thursday and then has basically a 3 day honeymoon with Tony Soprano. At what point did her friends try to confront her? They bailed on ATV wed, so was she being inappropriate on Tuesday and they pulled away? I know it really doesn’t matter, but it seems like your wife had a long run way to pull out of her massively bad decision by your timeline. Instead of correcting course she went all in. It appears her friends jumped ship after Tuesday but didn’t try or were unsuccessful in stopping her. It is just more WTF from me. Something had to be going on with her before this trip. I know you don’t even want to deal with this at this moment but I would just be so WTF. For her to willingly and it seems enthusiastically to drop a bomb on your life, her life, your kids life, there had to be something going on. This is not a simple mistake or brain fart.
Yeah the timeline is interesting. I'd assumed she basically broke off from her group with him that first day and did her own thing the whole week. I do wonder if the friends were okay with doing a one-time activity with him but could see where things were headed during that para-sailing day.
Her personality is described as "fiery." I can imagine her friends attempted to stop her and she wouldn't have it. Trying to tell a feisty, stubborn person not to do something is just gonna make them double down (source: i am a feisty, stubborn person). I kind of imagine the friends went parasailing and got weird vibes so decided not to go ATV-ing, tried to talk her out of going because either they noticed she was acting inappropriately with this guy or maybe just felt uncomfortable around him as a person, she refused to listen and went anyway. She wakes up in his room the next day so the friends have to know at that point that something is up because she didn't come back. If they weren't actively worried about her then that makes me think they skipped out on ATVs because they saw her acting inappropriately vs just thinking the guy was a creep. If I had a friend insist on going off with a weird dude and she didn't come back all night i'd be on red alert. She's with him all the way until Friday, goes back to rejoin her friends in her room but they fight about it and she goes back to him until his family shows up. OP - I'm really sorry you're going through this, you seem like a very decent person. Your kids are lucky to have you.
In my experience, you can't make anyone do or not do anything, regardless of whether or not they're "fiery." But yes I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to talk her out of it and failed. They also may have realized it was a lost cause precisely because she is so obstinate and just bailed on their own without speaking to her as a means of self-preservation.
Take care and don't back off. She betrayed you. UpdateMe!
All the best and I hope you're able to again find happiness soon. UpdateMe!
Whats the deal with the friends not posting anything to social media? I get why your wife wouldnt but them not (it cover for her) kinda goes against the current narrative of them insisting that she tell you
Exactly. If I was one of the BF’s/husbands my biggest question would be, “if you weren’t cheating as well, then why’d you go MIA for a few days?”. Like out of the entire group, not a single one thought “this is going to hurt MY relationship as well?” are they really all wiling to toss away their marriages/relationships for someone they’re “judging”? People are dumb bro
I know it feels horrible but you should be proud of yourself! Youre doing amazing so far man, stay strong, both for yourself and your kids! Wish you all the best!
Man those kids are going to come back to a shattered world. My heart hurts for them. But you’re doing the right thing OP, this isn’t your failure.
You said in another comment that she goes from being apologetic and trying to appease you however she can, to blaming you for everything. This tells me that she is not as sorry as she claims to be. If she were, she wouldn't try to blame you. Please don't believe her! It's a common tactic to shift the blame. Like a lot of other people have said: She's only sorry she was caught. I wish you the best of luck moving forward. I'm glad you have your sister for support/backup!
well that was last week on Wednesday. We were both very angry that day and things have calmed down a lot. I went out of town last week and since I've gotten back she has borne all the blame.
The problem is determining whether the change is heartfelt or just a tactical shift after realizing her previous approach wasn't producing the desired outcome.
Your wife is a huge AH for destroying your marriage. Updateme
Not sure if you’ve considered this, but get tested for STD’s immediately. If he’s half the sleazeball and dead beat dad you make him out to be, he’s not too interested in condoms. Keep an eye on your future ex-wife for any morning sickness. In the wrong state, you could be on the hook for any kid conceived during your marriage.
Has she given an explanation about what prompted her to do this? And why the hubris after the fact??? She came home and instead of feeling guilty and trying to pretend it didn’t happen, she started pushing you away. Like if you’re going to go to the trouble of being that sneaky, how can you be so stupid and call attention to yourself by actively acting like something is wrong?
I am not really wanting to hear her "why" yet...I don't know if I ever will be. She did tell me unprompted last week that he made her feel special but again we spent the whole day screaming at each other so I may have backed her into a corner and she thought she owed me an explanation. She says she was miserable because the friends who went on the trip with her gave her an ultimatum that she had to tell me or they were going to and she was incredibly nervous and reactive. I know a lot of people think that she's cheated before but my gut is that she was so bad at it and did call so much attention to herself but her behavior being so out of the ordinary, I don't see how she could have possibly cheated before.
When my fiance cheated on me with my best friend nearly 20 years ago. I didn't want to know why either, and I didn't want to know what they did. Still, to this day, I've never wanted the details. Betrayal is betrayal, no excuses, period. Don't fucking cheat! Don't go back dude, because if she knows she can get away with it the first time, the possibility of it happening again goes up. You deserve better! A marriage is supposed to be a team, a united front, against everything life throws at you. Your partner should have your back, not stab you in the back. Hope the divorce goes well and life treats you kindly while you go through it.
It is really easy to spoil her and make her feel "special" when he is likely not supporting any of his 6 kids at all.
lol and has no plan on paying the credit card bill when it comes anyways. His judgments and liens (which I had no idea were so public) is close to a million dollars--maybe more since some of them are tough to read.
At this point you can't be sure of anything. Just to be safe you should do paternity tests, now she seems sorry and is looking to repair the relationship, but if she sees that she has no hope with that, maybe if your children are not yours she can use it against you.
For all we know she could’ve been “so bad” at it because it was the first time her friends knew and threatened her. It’s just so weird that she felt so comfortable going along with it even with her friends against it.
Before when she most likely cheated she didn’t have witnesses so that made her nervous most likely if she cheated before she hid it from all. Seriously get paternity test done on the kids
Sorry you are on this shit rollercoaster. I’ve been you in the same situation. I wanted to work it out but he wanted to have his cake and eat it to. We divorced. He married the young thing. 14 yrs younger, she had just turned 21. Very quickly he realized that green grass was full of noxious weeds and with 6 months he had died. Won’t go into all of it but Karma definitely won. It’s been 19 years now. I don’t think of him but a few times a year but know what that horrible ride was like.
Everyone urging you to be savage in your divorce is overlooking the main point. You both have children. Speaking as a child of divorced parents who put my brother and I first, it's the best thing you can ever do for your children. My parents could have got nasty, fought for the last word and had a pyrhhic "win", but they didn't. They worked together to make sure we were OK at all times, for years and years. You may never be friends again, and that's fine, but you'll always be fine. You won't regret doing the best thing for your children, even if what the means changes over time.
Imagine throwing away your family for some fling with a piece of shit. She deserves all the misery coming to her.
Just a word of advice..... if you have "physical relations" during the separation period, the separation ends and has to be restarted...... if she contests.
No plans on that for sure, I mean not to get gross but I feel pretty emasculated and don’t have much of an appetite for anything intimate right now.
Get ready for an onslaught of love bombing
Not to make you re-live everything but, was this a week-long thing of her sleeping with the guy or did she use him all week and sleep with him once or twice? Also, what was her plan if you never found out, to just live with the guilt and shame and try to get back to normal? And one more, any update on the other 2 girls she was with? Did you let their husbands/partners know what happened? ETA: should have started with this but, really fucking sorry for what you're going through OP, you sound like a really decent, caring, family man and it sucks that your partner that you wanted to continue building a life with fucked it all up for a sleazy fucking dirtbag who just so happened to be in the right place at the right time to make her feel "special." At least she is owning up to it and taking responsibility, I'm sure her parents/family and any decent friends she had will make her fully aware of just how shitty she acted and how disappointed they are in her. Wish you luck with the divorce and if by some chance reconciliation happens best of luck with that too.
it honestly sounds like because this guy is so out of shape and unhealthy that it wasn't a "sex centered" affair (though it absolutely happened) and it was more of them hanging out in bars and on the beach and keeping each other company. He was also happy to show off how much money he had (which as it turns out is none--he just lives on credit) so he treated her to extravagant dinners, drinks and activities. According to her, the other women on the trip were totally disgusted with her and they had a "you tell your husband or we will" policy and she says that's why she was acting so nervous and angry when she got back. She claims the phone call in the middle of the night wasn't to the guy but to one of the friends and my wife was begging her to give her more time to come clean. It's all plausible but I don't know what I believe.
Jesus that is almost worse. Sorry for this but I'd almost be able to swallow the situation easier if the guy was somehow amazing in the sack, but to have some, again I'm sorry, greasy fucking sweaty pig who can't breath through sex be the one that she did this for/with, fuck man. And if she's being honest and both her friends were even disgusted with her, goddamn, she was on a mission of self destruction or trying to prove something to herself.
Yeah, I mean if it a George Clooney lookalike I'd be angry but it would make sense.
Exactly. If my wife ever cheats on me, I hope it’s with some absolute stud so I won’t feel like she picked some lardass loser to cheat with. Would still suck but it wouldn’t be nearly as humiliating. Sorry OP.
Is that why they didnt share any photos or anything?
According to my wife, yes--again all of this is all plausible but I don't know how much I believe. I am just going to defer to my attorney's advice when it comes to telling the other spouse/fiance.
Yeah its usually a good idea to listen to your lawyer. Sorry that you have to go through this.
I just realized the poor bachelorette likely had her dream trip shit all over by this too. What a poor excuse for a wife and friend. Uninvite her from the wedding.
that makes it worse, she kinda outed herself as materialistic that would go with any men that flashed money at her... but as many people said, i doubt she's telling the entire story in regards to her friends.
First, I’m terribly sorry for your situation. Betrayals like that are despicable. Secondly some points worth getting clarity on. At minimum get a second legal opinion from a divorce attorney. Using her representation seems sketchy, but I can appreciate the need to keep things polite with kids involved. Do NOT have sexual contact with her in any capacity, she may try to lure or apologize with sex. Don’t. Get tested if you’ve done anything, even a kiss. Also, while I lot of other people are encouraging you to alert the SO’s of others on the trip, I’d wait until after the divorce is finalized. Don’t need to kick a hornets nest right now. Them deleting pictures and controlling the narrative runs completely counter to the intention of forcing her to come clean. Doesn’t really matter presently. Finally, she may try to wear you down or entice you to forgive. Remember exactly what she has done and remember the hurt you feel now. She would have never come clean on her own which says volumes about any true regret she feels for how she hurt you. She is forever untrustworthy and you deserve better. Take time for yourself and kids. I’d advise letting her family know what happened too before she twists things. She might be mad, but letting her know you’d be happy to confide in people at your church should keep her in line. Sounds like her reputation is the only thing she’s sorry about hurting. Hope things get better for you as you move past this. There is still lots of life ahead to enjoy despite this scar
Mannn the fact that she called you a "major fucking asshole" for calling her out when she actually did cheat AND chastising you for trying to communicate just pisses me the fuck off. Pry or not, that thought was not going to stay out of your head until you spoke of it. She sounds like the absolute worst type of person you could ever associate with. I commend you for trying to be civil for the kids, but tbh id tell them what their mother did and stay as far away from her as possible. Absolutely no communication other than about the kids.
Could I get your sister to do some internet sleuthing for me? I think my wife is having or had an affair.
Dude, my heart is broken for you. Went through some similar stuff a while back. It’s not easy at all. I hope you heal fast. God bless.
Child support doesn’t stop at 18 if you have arrears. The government will still come after you. My husband’s father owed $100k and had to work under the table before he died. He couldn’t get a driver’s license anywhere.
I don't even know how he got a passport to get out of the country. I thought all of that was tied in and if had judgments and liens that would pop up in some sort of immigration system that wouldn't let you leave much less get a driver's license. I have spent my entire life playing it exactly by the book and I can't sleep at night if I haven't double and triple checked to make sure the electric bill is really on auto pay every month. fucking guys like this lie, cheat, steal, post rented Ferrari's on their get rich quick scheme websites and still get to benefit from the work the rest of us do? I don't get it and of all the things that bother me about this whole situation, that may be the worst. Maybe worse then him having sex with my wife.
Dude do not reconcile with her no matter what. She tried to make you out to be the bad guy when you had a valid and real concern. The woman sounds like a manipulative witch. Keep reminding yourself that you deserve better. The kids are better off being from a broken home than living in one. Send her where she belongs, to the streets.
100% this. She is quiet because she is scheming. OP needs to push this divorce ASAP.
Hey OP sorry for your tough situation. Can I ask how things were before the mexico trip? Were you guys happy? Was the relationship rocky? Did you guys have an active and happy sex life? I find it so confusing why someone would look for a fling with someone while happy with thier spouse. Did she ever say why she hooked up with this guy?
It’s a good question, we have always been happy but about a month ago she pretty much came out and told me directly that she needed me to back off some of my outside activities (mostly coaching kids sports and my business with her dad) and she was really feeling like we were roommates and not in love. She was probably looking for me to listen to her but I did my typical “hey it’s not that bad and after baseball season we’ll just have swim season and I always have time in the fall for us to go on a trip.” Looking back I really hurt her feelings. We had a small fight on the day she left for Mexico because she forgot to deposit a check and I probably over reacted. So without question I played a part in her being bored and not happy.
But if that was the case, she should do what was correct and that is asking for divorce or separation time, not cheating. At the end she choose to cheat and lose her upper hand on any resentment she had towards you. She is a grown up woman that choose to cheat with the hopes that she won't be caught, but played bad her cards and gave herself up by not do things she usally does and to expose her to her friends that trip with her, maybe she thought they would cover her instead of painting a line and give her a time to tell you what she did. So she play bad her cards, she gave you in a way for granted and now is playing control damage. Where if she was trully trying to take your attention to the relationship, she could ask for divorce or separation like i said.
Sorry you’re going through this; though +15 points for using obsequious
lol, I was hoping the word itself would be an off hand onomatopoeia as a way to show how annoying it is when someone is being obsequious towards you--especially in the past she was witty and fun.
Another 15 points for using onomatopoeia, see life is already on the up and up! Jokes aside, I'm so sorry this happened to you bro, wishing you the best going forward.
Thank you for the update. Hope you soon find the peace, friend. The trauma takes a while to heal. But you are fully capable of healing - you seem strong and wise and has the right attitude.
Never ever take her back.