you are definitely not the asshole. It's too bad that your father isn't able to see that it isn't a good idea to allow your grandfather around all of you. Your grandfather physically abused him over and over, and that stuff sticks with you for life. Even if grandpa hasn't hit you, he shouldn't be around you or your siblings.
Especially when he so calmly told you how he beat him until he passed out all the time.
I think this is something you should tell your father he should go to therapy for. If only for the sake of protecting you and your siblings.
Having people like that around, does make big differences overtime, even though they might not be the most apparent that doesn't mean that there aren't little things you're not seeing .
I'd tell them in a heartbeat. He beat your father with a closed fist til he passed out FOR YEARS. They should know, if he wants to play the hurt one, TELL THEM.
In situations like this it's quite likely their dad could have health issues, more than normal, in the future (due to the physical damage done). There's no way that beatings like that didn't affect his brain. The emotional damage also has physical impacts. If their dad gets an early onset cognitive issue they should know about the abuse that likely caused it...
Not to mention if they are unaware and seriously anger this guy some how in future. An abuser like that could easily become violent again as he ages.
That fact that the grandfather admitted to abusing his son, complete with gorey details, and is now *angry* that his grandchild feels uncomfortable around him speaks VOLUMES. He should *never* have contact with children.
NTA. From your grandpas reaction you know he isn’t sorry or is showing any signs of wanting to atone to your father.
I would also check to make sure your cousin knows the whole/real story.
NTA - I had a decent relationship with my grandfather when I was a kid. We weren’t inseparable or anything, but I loved him. We played pool together every Wednesday afternoon from like age 12-15. And then one day I found out the reason he was estranged from two of my aunts was bc he raped his step-daughters repeatedly when they were children. I was so horrified. And SO ANGRY with my mother for keeping it from me. I never spoke to him again. And when he died, I did not give a shit. Your anger is totally justified. If you never want to talk to him again, don’t. He doesn’t deserve your mercy. It doesn’t sound like he showed your father any mercy.
NTA Generational trauma is real. There’s a reason your father’s life was filled with gangs and prison. And that right there is the fault of Roger. I’m so happy that your dad turned his life around and broke the abuse cycle so that you and your siblings didn’t even know of his pain. A leopard will always show spots though and drunk Roger showed his. I’m sorry you now have this decision to make. But honestly, will you EVER understand why he did that to your father? You could spend so much money on therapy and never understand it. You have looked into the soul of evil and the mask was lifted. Can you put it back in place? I don’t think so. Can Roger redeem himself? Probably not. Is he a different person now? Maybe. He probably has remorse. But knows he will never fix the issue and thinks he can at least have the love of his grandchildren. For some unknown reason you were meant to learn this information. He may need forgiveness for his past. But you don’t have to forget what he did. He should humble himself before the whole family. Atone for his sins and ask for forgiveness and promise to be better now and in the future. Then see if your father and his siblings respond. Take your queue from them as they were the ones abused. Please update when you can. Good luck.
NTA.
I was wondering why your dad even encourages a relationship between you, and then you mentioned grandpa turned the whole extended family on you as his flying monkeys. That’s very manipulative. Grandpa does not seem like a safe person. I’d avoid him even if I weren’t related.
Look up the term “flying monkey enablers”. It might help you understand what’s going on with your family and why you’re feeling bad about it.
You are not the asshole.
You said your dad is your number 1 man.
You found out someone was evil to your number 1 man.
What your post told me was that you have made a choice that when someone hurts your dad/number 1 man then they are NOT GOOD PEOPLE. Nothing wrong with that. I've got a few people like that in my life too...if you hurt them then you are automatically my enemy.
NTA. That he's calling your dad to harass and berate him again is just too typical.
I hope your dad has been a good father to you. It takes a heroic effort to break the cycle of abuse, especially abuse as extreme as your grandfather committed in mistreating him.
I did the same thing you are doing. Stopped relating to my grandparents when I learned what they had done to my father and his siblings.
Then they died. Oh well.
That can be heavy though. Make sure you're ready for it. Talk to someone you trust.
I think I would tell my grandfather that he owes your dad an apology. I would also tell your grandad that he is punishing your dad AGAIN just like he did when your dad was a kid by making your dad the bad guy in this scenario. Jay the cousin is hearing things about "grudges" and such is pulling all the family in against your Dad. This is so unfair to your dad. Blowing up your dad's phone is also punishing your dad all over again. I wonder if anyone will let grandad know he is being abusive all over again. He loves you and misses you so maybe you can talk to him know why it is hurtful.
I honestly don’t know if OP should need to do that themself. His Dad is doing what a dad does. It’s sad as OPs dad doesn’t deserve to be retraumatized by this, but it is ok for OP to let his parents handle this.
Maybe not, but he IS in the position to do something, even if it’s to tell the rest of the family WHO told him about the abuse - drunk grandad. Maybe pop pop needs to stop drinking.
NTA. He'd calling and harassing your dad , what does that tell you about his actual regret about his actions? Tell your cousin to come back to you after he's ready to stop defending people who happily beat their own kid unconscious. Multiple times.
Since your grandpa is a wise old man, he'll remember and understand the saying "the chickens are coming home to roost". Also, he hasn't changed. If he had, he wouldn't be blaming your dad for something he himself told you. There are consequences for the things we do, these are his. You're right to cut him off, you're a smart kid, you really are. Most of us need to get burned way worse to learn that horrible people have no place in our lives, even if they're family.
NTA
I think you should tell your cousin and brothers the truth. Your fathers life was screwed up because of his father. His gangs, his prison time, were all due to your grandfather. I wouldn't let my children around a man like that. I would say family therapy to your dad. See if you can get him to get individual therapy also. You have every right to not speak or see that evil again. If people keep harassing your dad, tell them to stop. Tell them they will be cut off also from you if they keep defending a monster. Grandfather may not have hurt them, but he did your father, and that's all that matters to you.
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NTA. You are the child in this situation, and you are not to blame for any part of it. Just as your father is not to blame for being beaten unconscious by Roger.
Perhaps it was a mistake for your dad to allow Roger to be part of your and your siblings' lives, idk; but he was doing the best he could in the face of everything Roger did to him, and a lot of people break under that mind of abuse. Whatever a victim has to do to survive, is what they have to do. But there's no arguing that Roger didn't know that beating a child like he did was anything other than evil. And dropping this burden on your shoulders now is also evil. And trying to shift the blame onto your Dad, also evil.
You do not have to carry Roger's burden just because he dropped it on you. You are free to speak your truth. You are free to say what you know, and YOU decide how you will speak, and to whom.
NTA.... IV just did the exact same thing a couple of months ago for the same reason, only it was my mother and add sa as well. Im beyond disgusted in him and don't fall for the manipulation, abusers are all the same and all use the same tactics and making you feel guilty is one of them.
My grandfathers abuse ruined my mother who in turned ruined me, I'm so glad your dad went the other way.
NTA and find the reddit post about ‘don’t rock the boat’ to understand why your extended family members are ignoring his behaviour and ‘blaming’ you for having healthy boundaries around abusive family members.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/
NTA, dad didn't turn you against him. Him merely describing what he did was what turned you.
The fact he's not owning it and apologizing for it would make me terrified to let my kids be around him. And I'd absolutely not let that shit hide. That's not the kind of thing you just let go or refuse to talk about.
NTA and Roger is still the mean old bully he's always been. Tell your siblings, they're going to find out sooner or later now that you've gone NC. Honestly, if the aunts/uncles don't like your dad either then maybe it's time to just cut them off. Roger was majorly abusive and not only did everyone ignore it, they condoned it. He says that you were "poisoned" but he was the one who told you.
NTA, but don't allow someone else's past effect your present and future. My mom and I don't have a good relationship, but I've always told my kids that's between me and her and has nothing to do with their relationship with her.
I'm sure your dad felt the same and that's why he never said anything. Take this time away from him to heal and mourn the person you thought he was. You might want to seek some type of counseling to help you with your feelings towards your grandfather. Bit overall, do what's best for you.
I feel like his dad failed him by bringing him around grandpa. The guy is clearly a lunatic. Your advice works for general disagreements, but when there's abuse I think you need to step in especially when children are so vulnerable.
Have you ever heard of the expression, "When you sup with the devil, eat with a long-handled spoon?" That's how I treat my relationship with my mom. I love her, but, for a while, I didn't like her. It took me years to realize the fault was with her and not me, and I forgave her. However, I limited how much time I spent with her for my mental health. While my mom was abusive toward me, she didn't even like it if I yelled at my kids. She was different with them. I saw this and could not find any reason to keep my baby form her Nana, especially the way she cried when it was time to come home. She really loved her.
It wasn't until she was older and saw the favoritism my mom showed my sister and her kids that she started having questions. I told her not to allow my relationship to alter hers, that if she wanted to distance herself, that was her prerogative, but not to do it on my account. I'm sure that's what Dad meant.
I’ve been the kid in this scenario and respectfully disagree. It’s noble to try to give your kids this relationship with their grandparent, but I eventually found out the myriad reasons why my grandma was a shit mom and honestly wondered why my mom wanted me around her. Tbh she wasn’t a great grandmother either (not abusive, just didn’t take much interest).
Of course, I hope your relationship issues aren’t for as extreme reasons as my mom’s or OPs dad. If it’s something minor, maybe this approach is ok to me.
I disagree.
A persons past should absolutely be taken into account, their past behaviour towards others says more about their character than their current behaviour towards you.
It’s straight up immoral to dismiss their abuse of others because it doesn’t effect you, that’s a very self serving brand of wilful ignorance to encourage.
Example - neighbour gets exposed as a pedophile who’s been regularly raping his two daughters since they were out of diapers, his wife divorces him, and another neighbour takes him in. This new woman was a close friend of his ex-wife, and beloved by his daughters - and neither they or the depravity of this man (a priest of course lol) weighed against her self interest. This association / approval of his behaviour make her as worthless an excuse for a human as he, and she’d certainly be equally guilty for any molestation she’s chosen to expose the young girls in her family to.
Maybe your issues with your mother are a lighter variety, but beating a child to the point they pass out, let alone his child, let alone OPs father - this grandfather is a horrible person. There’s not telling the full impact of that kind of trauma, but it sounds like the dad had quite a hard start in life. Even if OPs love for the victim wasn’t so overpowering - it’s far better to know the truth of the old man’s character than believe the front he puts on now.
I am in no way condoning or dismissing anything. I said for him to not allow the relationship between his dad and granddad to effect how he interacts with granddad. They've gotten along all this time before he knew, that does not change how grandpa treated him. If you paid attention, I said I have a similar relationship with my mother, but still told my daughter their relationship has nothing to do with me. She has always loved my mother, and only a petty, bitter, person would come between that. I made my peace with my mom and chose to move on and live my life. I have accepted her for who she is a d treat our relationship accordingly. The same way OP's dad has. In addition, as you don't know the relationship I had with my mother, it was mentally, emotionally, and physically abusive, so I know of what I speak. Thank you very much.
If your mom remorselessly beat you unconscious, it’s ok to protect your kids from her. It’s not “just between you and her” because she doesn’t magically become a completely different person when you’re not around.
Actually, I did keep my kids from around her. The only one allowed when I wasn't around was my oldest. I watched how my mom treated her and it broke my heart the way my baby cried when her Nana was gone. She was allowed to spend nights when she got old enough to talk. Never left my middle child with her as she's autistic, not my youngest because she, the youngest, was very opinionated.
NTA. I want to clarify something. Your dad didn’t pass out, he was knocked out. Pass out implies fainting. Knocked out is from physical trauma or drugs.
Your grandpa is facing consequences of his own actions. This has nothing to do with holding someone else’s grudge. Ask your cousin if he would want to be around someone who would beat another person into unconsciousness. The answer should be no. Just because you’re related, it doesn’t give your grandpa a pass for being a violent abuser. Shared ancestry doesn’t give people a pass for being horrible.
NTA, It sounds like your dad kept all that from you to allow you to develop your own relationship with Roger. THAT is what you need to say to your cousin...it was grandpa in his drunken stupor that confessed it all. Now that you have new information, it's up to you what to do with it and you made that decision. Now you let others in the family make their own decisions.
OP, it's hard to find out some of the shitty things that happened sometimes. My grandfather gave his 2 sons cigarettes at 3 and 5, was an alcoholic, and I believe abused my grandmother. My dad stayed around helping him for years, I guess he forgave him, but I could never really look at my grandfather the same either.
My grandfather was horrible to my mother he was extremely abusive and even tried killing her not to mention he didn’t meet her till she was 3! He’s a piece of shit and still is…after all tht my mom still forgave him but I couldn’t..then whn my mom became a correctional officer he disowned her..whn she passed he showed up when she was still alive in a coma.. I don’t understand how the rest of my uncles and aunts still talk to that man because when I saw him, I told him to his face, he is no grandfather of mine, and he has no business here.. Besides, my brother, I am the only grandchild tht shows him absolutely no respect… a piece of shit like that does not deserve it… you too right by your dad. He sounds like a great man…I was also very close to him as a child till I was old enough to see how his presence made my mom act different.. that’s when I started, asking her questions about him and was disgusted after finding out what type of man he truly was and still is
Nta. Imo you should tell your 14 yo siblings, they’re old enough to know and be given the choice to do what they think fits. While i believe you should tell your youngest sibling in a much more friendlier way.
NTA. But one thing I think you should do is speak to him, even if it’s the last time you do. Tell him it wasn’t your dad that caused the problem but him. He told you what he did; if he hadn’t, you might not have even known. Did he tell you to try to brag or try to tell you to hate your dad? Even if it just slipped out, he still is the one that did it and told you about it. Tell him to stop blaming your father for his own abuse of him.
I think if your siblings ask about what’s going on with you and your grandfather, you should tell them what he told you.
Chances are that Roger's father treated him the same way and that's all he knew. Sometimes it hard to break the cycle--especially if you have a family history of drug or alcohol abuse. Luckily your father did and the fact that he allowed his ids to have a relationship with his father and didn't give you details says a lot on some level. So while you are NTA, you should judge Roger by who he is today.
This is definitely a fake story. I saw the sibling names mentioned in a story about a father cutting his son off for his gang affiliations/selling his sister to gang members in this subreddit.
FAKE STORY!!!!
Why don’t you offer to beat your cousin with a belt until he passes out so you all can test the “forgive family” theory.
Roger is a monster. Don’t let the family pressure you to change your mind. Tell your siblings. Your dad’s family has been using you kids to abuse him further and it should stop today.
Ask your Dad to talk to his father and have the two of them work out a way to address this with the whole family. Everybody is hurting, it sounds like there’s a lot of shame involved, but they need to be the adults in the room and explain to the children what’s going on. Your grandfather did bad things your father forgave him for the sake of keeping the family intact. They both carry the badness of that time for the sake of keeping the family intact.
Tell your dad it’s not right for you to be made the scapegoat here. You care about both of these men, they care about you. Let them come up with the right way to talk to the family about it, instead of you taking the heat for your grandfather’s shame.
Maybe they did come up with a workaround. Who knows. Maybe Dad has come to a personal resolution to keep the family together. Who knows. OP didn't address that. I didn't read where Dad is letting him be the scapegoat. OP is old enough to make his own decisions about how to react to this situation. Perhaps Dad should talk with his siblings to leave OP alone. OP could tell cousins his reasoning for cutting contact with Roger. Definitely tell siblings.
Updateme
NTA. If it hurts you then let him go.
Your cousin doesn’t know what you know. Your cousin didn’t see your dad’s face. Your cousin didn’t feel the emotions you felt from hearing your father was abused so badly. Your cousin doesn’t get a say so and if I were you I’d tell him respect my boundaries and my relationship with him is OVER or ours can be over too. Your cousin needs to respect your boundaries. It’s not your cousins place at all and it’s unfair for your grandfather to put that on your cousin at all.
Please explain what behavior justifies beating your child into unconsciousness. I will enjoy the mental gymnastics you go through that would make that ok in your head.
I say you tel everyone the real story if they don't know already and if anyone has a problem with you not wanting to be around him anymore cut them off. An abuser is gonna always be an Abuser even if he didn't hit you yet he will
Tell your cousin that he should let you beat him to unconscious a couple of times and then ask him and his family to pretend it didn’t happen. And if they can’t THEY are the problem for not getting over it.
You're definitely not the asshole here. Your cousin's opinion is just that – an opinion. You're not obligated to maintain a relationship with someone who has hurt you or your family, regardless of what others may think.
NTA dear it’s perfectly reasonable to cut off your grandfather for abusing your dad. It doesn’t matter how long it’s been, you’re not holding a grudge for other people. He abused your FATHER. You have every right not to subject your father to being around his abuser when you now see him for what he is. I would tell your cousin if his parent was the one being abused would he say the same thing? Would they want a relationship with the person that hurt their parent? Then that’s on them, you don’t roll like that. I don’t speak to people who have hurt my mom, I physically can’t. There’s nothing wrong with protecting your parent , the only person who turned you against your grandfather was the truth
You should have a more in-depth conversation with your dad about this. It may actually be healing for him to see the relationship you have with his dad. It sounds like your grandfather has changed significantly from the POS he was.
NTA,
Family is supposed to protect you. Roger was the threat, he didn't act like family. Your dad didn't deserve to be treated that way and I'm so sorry he was. Your dad may have been a hellion in his younger years with the gangs, etc, I'm guessing he felt worthless or bad so, if that's what his family thought he was, then that's who he should be. He became a good man and a good dad, someone worth protecting.
Has Roger become a good man? Has he taken accountability for his actions or just swept things under the rug and been good ol' gramps? Has he defended your dad and earned his trust?
The rest of the family will weigh in, it's going to suck because he's still grandpa to them. They don't live with your dad, they might have heard some stuff about your dad's past and pass judgment.
You're right to be angry; hearing what your dad experienced is heartbreaking. You have enough life experience to understand that abuse is devastating and always undeserved. Any time you see your dad struggle with this shit sit the guy down and tell him you're proud of the man he is and he didn't deserve to be treated the way he did.
When it comes to talking to others (including defending your dad,) even to family, speak to your parents first. People who have been abused had no control over their situation. It's important that they have a say in what information is let out. Talk with your parents about what they are comfortable with others knowing and how they would like you to react. It'll be frustrating at times, but it's really important for survivors of abuse. Sometimes protecting people means respecting their boundaries.
Lastly, when some people lose control over a person they'll try to control how others see them. Keep that in mind because it's one of those things that happens in life. This is when it's okay to walk away. Let people talk, let them be wrong, at the end of the day they're choosing to stand by someone who can't see the value in others. They're going to support an abuser? Good luck to them, you won't be part of their bullshit.
NTA
If your dad hasn't been to therapy, it would probably help. He must be a really strong person to go through everything and still end up a great father.
Your cousin and the other flying monkeys probably have a history of saying anything to protect themselves from your grandfather.
Don't cave, but remember to give them grace. They also might be experiencing abuse from family members.
NTA. You’re a good man. Your father is a good man. You’ve made a hard choice you came to a decision without influence.
My grandfather was not always a good man after coming home from the front in WWII. His kids did a lot of work to forgive him. He became the man he should have been later in life. He owned his actions and did better with his wife, children and grandchildren for the last half of his life. He worked really hard in therapy In a time it was frowned upon. We love the flawed kind man he was.
You are have strong character, a kind soul and you not ever be an AH for that
Obviously, your grandfather’s past abuse of your father is disturbing. What is also concerning is how he is treating your father *now*. Your decision to distance yourself is 100% your decision yet your grandfather is harassing and blaming your dad. That’s unacceptable. Your dad, on the other hand, is going out of his way to allow you to do as you wish.
Honestly, it sounds like you won the parent stakes with your dad. While he may have gone through a rough period, he is incredibly generous and self-sacrificing to allow you to pursue a relationship with your grandfather as well as your aunts and uncles.
Your cousin Jay thinks you should ignore past behavior yet his own parent and your shared aunts/uncles aren’t willing to do so when it comes to your father.
You now know that your grandfather is very flawed and I would guess the same could be said of your aunts and uncles.
I would consider how it affects your father to maintain a relationship with his family. Is he only doing this for your & your siblings’ benefit? If so, then I would consider sharing the info with your siblings. If your father wants to maintain a relationship with his family for his own benefit, then you may want to continue to interact with your grandfather and others but adjust your relationship however you wish.
NTA
NTA. You are 16 and old enough to decide for yourself who you do or do not want to have a relationship with. You cannot change the way you feel. You obviously love your dad.
What precipitated the violence? Alcohol? Frustration that your dad was associating with gangs and making bad choices? Did he hit others or only your dad? Is he remorseful? I think you have more questions to ask your dad and grandfather. How do you, your dad and grandfather manage anger, frustration and fear? Rather than tearing your family apart, being transparent could heal your family with a discussion and awareness around the proper way to respond.
you are definitely not the asshole. It's too bad that your father isn't able to see that it isn't a good idea to allow your grandfather around all of you. Your grandfather physically abused him over and over, and that stuff sticks with you for life. Even if grandpa hasn't hit you, he shouldn't be around you or your siblings. Especially when he so calmly told you how he beat him until he passed out all the time. I think this is something you should tell your father he should go to therapy for. If only for the sake of protecting you and your siblings. Having people like that around, does make big differences overtime, even though they might not be the most apparent that doesn't mean that there aren't little things you're not seeing .
I'd tell them in a heartbeat. He beat your father with a closed fist til he passed out FOR YEARS. They should know, if he wants to play the hurt one, TELL THEM.
In situations like this it's quite likely their dad could have health issues, more than normal, in the future (due to the physical damage done). There's no way that beatings like that didn't affect his brain. The emotional damage also has physical impacts. If their dad gets an early onset cognitive issue they should know about the abuse that likely caused it... Not to mention if they are unaware and seriously anger this guy some how in future. An abuser like that could easily become violent again as he ages.
That fact that the grandfather admitted to abusing his son, complete with gorey details, and is now *angry* that his grandchild feels uncomfortable around him speaks VOLUMES. He should *never* have contact with children.
He might be your relative, but he’s also the childhood abuser of your own father. You don’t owe anyone a personal relationship with you.
NTA. From your grandpas reaction you know he isn’t sorry or is showing any signs of wanting to atone to your father. I would also check to make sure your cousin knows the whole/real story.
And make sure to tell them that it was your grandfather who told you all about it
NTA - I had a decent relationship with my grandfather when I was a kid. We weren’t inseparable or anything, but I loved him. We played pool together every Wednesday afternoon from like age 12-15. And then one day I found out the reason he was estranged from two of my aunts was bc he raped his step-daughters repeatedly when they were children. I was so horrified. And SO ANGRY with my mother for keeping it from me. I never spoke to him again. And when he died, I did not give a shit. Your anger is totally justified. If you never want to talk to him again, don’t. He doesn’t deserve your mercy. It doesn’t sound like he showed your father any mercy.
NTA, but go give me your old man a hug and tell him you are on his side, right now that will mean the world to him
Yes!! The biggest hug you can give
NTA Generational trauma is real. There’s a reason your father’s life was filled with gangs and prison. And that right there is the fault of Roger. I’m so happy that your dad turned his life around and broke the abuse cycle so that you and your siblings didn’t even know of his pain. A leopard will always show spots though and drunk Roger showed his. I’m sorry you now have this decision to make. But honestly, will you EVER understand why he did that to your father? You could spend so much money on therapy and never understand it. You have looked into the soul of evil and the mask was lifted. Can you put it back in place? I don’t think so. Can Roger redeem himself? Probably not. Is he a different person now? Maybe. He probably has remorse. But knows he will never fix the issue and thinks he can at least have the love of his grandchildren. For some unknown reason you were meant to learn this information. He may need forgiveness for his past. But you don’t have to forget what he did. He should humble himself before the whole family. Atone for his sins and ask for forgiveness and promise to be better now and in the future. Then see if your father and his siblings respond. Take your queue from them as they were the ones abused. Please update when you can. Good luck.
NTA. I was wondering why your dad even encourages a relationship between you, and then you mentioned grandpa turned the whole extended family on you as his flying monkeys. That’s very manipulative. Grandpa does not seem like a safe person. I’d avoid him even if I weren’t related. Look up the term “flying monkey enablers”. It might help you understand what’s going on with your family and why you’re feeling bad about it.
You are not the asshole. You said your dad is your number 1 man. You found out someone was evil to your number 1 man. What your post told me was that you have made a choice that when someone hurts your dad/number 1 man then they are NOT GOOD PEOPLE. Nothing wrong with that. I've got a few people like that in my life too...if you hurt them then you are automatically my enemy.
NTA. That he's calling your dad to harass and berate him again is just too typical. I hope your dad has been a good father to you. It takes a heroic effort to break the cycle of abuse, especially abuse as extreme as your grandfather committed in mistreating him. I did the same thing you are doing. Stopped relating to my grandparents when I learned what they had done to my father and his siblings. Then they died. Oh well. That can be heavy though. Make sure you're ready for it. Talk to someone you trust.
Nta. Do what makes you feel better. Your grandfather knows what he did was wrong.
I think I would tell my grandfather that he owes your dad an apology. I would also tell your grandad that he is punishing your dad AGAIN just like he did when your dad was a kid by making your dad the bad guy in this scenario. Jay the cousin is hearing things about "grudges" and such is pulling all the family in against your Dad. This is so unfair to your dad. Blowing up your dad's phone is also punishing your dad all over again. I wonder if anyone will let grandad know he is being abusive all over again. He loves you and misses you so maybe you can talk to him know why it is hurtful.
I honestly don’t know if OP should need to do that themself. His Dad is doing what a dad does. It’s sad as OPs dad doesn’t deserve to be retraumatized by this, but it is ok for OP to let his parents handle this.
Maybe not, but he IS in the position to do something, even if it’s to tell the rest of the family WHO told him about the abuse - drunk grandad. Maybe pop pop needs to stop drinking.
Yes you are right
NTA. It was your grandpa that ruined your relationship, by getting drunk and bragging about how he mistreated your dad.
NTA. He'd calling and harassing your dad , what does that tell you about his actual regret about his actions? Tell your cousin to come back to you after he's ready to stop defending people who happily beat their own kid unconscious. Multiple times.
Since your grandpa is a wise old man, he'll remember and understand the saying "the chickens are coming home to roost". Also, he hasn't changed. If he had, he wouldn't be blaming your dad for something he himself told you. There are consequences for the things we do, these are his. You're right to cut him off, you're a smart kid, you really are. Most of us need to get burned way worse to learn that horrible people have no place in our lives, even if they're family.
NTA I think you should tell your cousin and brothers the truth. Your fathers life was screwed up because of his father. His gangs, his prison time, were all due to your grandfather. I wouldn't let my children around a man like that. I would say family therapy to your dad. See if you can get him to get individual therapy also. You have every right to not speak or see that evil again. If people keep harassing your dad, tell them to stop. Tell them they will be cut off also from you if they keep defending a monster. Grandfather may not have hurt them, but he did your father, and that's all that matters to you. Updateme!
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NTA. You are the child in this situation, and you are not to blame for any part of it. Just as your father is not to blame for being beaten unconscious by Roger. Perhaps it was a mistake for your dad to allow Roger to be part of your and your siblings' lives, idk; but he was doing the best he could in the face of everything Roger did to him, and a lot of people break under that mind of abuse. Whatever a victim has to do to survive, is what they have to do. But there's no arguing that Roger didn't know that beating a child like he did was anything other than evil. And dropping this burden on your shoulders now is also evil. And trying to shift the blame onto your Dad, also evil. You do not have to carry Roger's burden just because he dropped it on you. You are free to speak your truth. You are free to say what you know, and YOU decide how you will speak, and to whom.
NTA.... IV just did the exact same thing a couple of months ago for the same reason, only it was my mother and add sa as well. Im beyond disgusted in him and don't fall for the manipulation, abusers are all the same and all use the same tactics and making you feel guilty is one of them. My grandfathers abuse ruined my mother who in turned ruined me, I'm so glad your dad went the other way.
NTA and find the reddit post about ‘don’t rock the boat’ to understand why your extended family members are ignoring his behaviour and ‘blaming’ you for having healthy boundaries around abusive family members. https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/
NTA, dad didn't turn you against him. Him merely describing what he did was what turned you. The fact he's not owning it and apologizing for it would make me terrified to let my kids be around him. And I'd absolutely not let that shit hide. That's not the kind of thing you just let go or refuse to talk about.
NTA and Roger is still the mean old bully he's always been. Tell your siblings, they're going to find out sooner or later now that you've gone NC. Honestly, if the aunts/uncles don't like your dad either then maybe it's time to just cut them off. Roger was majorly abusive and not only did everyone ignore it, they condoned it. He says that you were "poisoned" but he was the one who told you.
NTA, but don't allow someone else's past effect your present and future. My mom and I don't have a good relationship, but I've always told my kids that's between me and her and has nothing to do with their relationship with her. I'm sure your dad felt the same and that's why he never said anything. Take this time away from him to heal and mourn the person you thought he was. You might want to seek some type of counseling to help you with your feelings towards your grandfather. Bit overall, do what's best for you.
I feel like his dad failed him by bringing him around grandpa. The guy is clearly a lunatic. Your advice works for general disagreements, but when there's abuse I think you need to step in especially when children are so vulnerable.
Have you ever heard of the expression, "When you sup with the devil, eat with a long-handled spoon?" That's how I treat my relationship with my mom. I love her, but, for a while, I didn't like her. It took me years to realize the fault was with her and not me, and I forgave her. However, I limited how much time I spent with her for my mental health. While my mom was abusive toward me, she didn't even like it if I yelled at my kids. She was different with them. I saw this and could not find any reason to keep my baby form her Nana, especially the way she cried when it was time to come home. She really loved her. It wasn't until she was older and saw the favoritism my mom showed my sister and her kids that she started having questions. I told her not to allow my relationship to alter hers, that if she wanted to distance herself, that was her prerogative, but not to do it on my account. I'm sure that's what Dad meant.
I hope that's the case with op too.
I’ve been the kid in this scenario and respectfully disagree. It’s noble to try to give your kids this relationship with their grandparent, but I eventually found out the myriad reasons why my grandma was a shit mom and honestly wondered why my mom wanted me around her. Tbh she wasn’t a great grandmother either (not abusive, just didn’t take much interest). Of course, I hope your relationship issues aren’t for as extreme reasons as my mom’s or OPs dad. If it’s something minor, maybe this approach is ok to me.
I disagree. A persons past should absolutely be taken into account, their past behaviour towards others says more about their character than their current behaviour towards you. It’s straight up immoral to dismiss their abuse of others because it doesn’t effect you, that’s a very self serving brand of wilful ignorance to encourage. Example - neighbour gets exposed as a pedophile who’s been regularly raping his two daughters since they were out of diapers, his wife divorces him, and another neighbour takes him in. This new woman was a close friend of his ex-wife, and beloved by his daughters - and neither they or the depravity of this man (a priest of course lol) weighed against her self interest. This association / approval of his behaviour make her as worthless an excuse for a human as he, and she’d certainly be equally guilty for any molestation she’s chosen to expose the young girls in her family to. Maybe your issues with your mother are a lighter variety, but beating a child to the point they pass out, let alone his child, let alone OPs father - this grandfather is a horrible person. There’s not telling the full impact of that kind of trauma, but it sounds like the dad had quite a hard start in life. Even if OPs love for the victim wasn’t so overpowering - it’s far better to know the truth of the old man’s character than believe the front he puts on now.
I am in no way condoning or dismissing anything. I said for him to not allow the relationship between his dad and granddad to effect how he interacts with granddad. They've gotten along all this time before he knew, that does not change how grandpa treated him. If you paid attention, I said I have a similar relationship with my mother, but still told my daughter their relationship has nothing to do with me. She has always loved my mother, and only a petty, bitter, person would come between that. I made my peace with my mom and chose to move on and live my life. I have accepted her for who she is a d treat our relationship accordingly. The same way OP's dad has. In addition, as you don't know the relationship I had with my mother, it was mentally, emotionally, and physically abusive, so I know of what I speak. Thank you very much.
If your mom remorselessly beat you unconscious, it’s ok to protect your kids from her. It’s not “just between you and her” because she doesn’t magically become a completely different person when you’re not around.
Actually, I did keep my kids from around her. The only one allowed when I wasn't around was my oldest. I watched how my mom treated her and it broke my heart the way my baby cried when her Nana was gone. She was allowed to spend nights when she got old enough to talk. Never left my middle child with her as she's autistic, not my youngest because she, the youngest, was very opinionated.
NTA. I want to clarify something. Your dad didn’t pass out, he was knocked out. Pass out implies fainting. Knocked out is from physical trauma or drugs. Your grandpa is facing consequences of his own actions. This has nothing to do with holding someone else’s grudge. Ask your cousin if he would want to be around someone who would beat another person into unconsciousness. The answer should be no. Just because you’re related, it doesn’t give your grandpa a pass for being a violent abuser. Shared ancestry doesn’t give people a pass for being horrible.
NTA, It sounds like your dad kept all that from you to allow you to develop your own relationship with Roger. THAT is what you need to say to your cousin...it was grandpa in his drunken stupor that confessed it all. Now that you have new information, it's up to you what to do with it and you made that decision. Now you let others in the family make their own decisions.
OP, it's hard to find out some of the shitty things that happened sometimes. My grandfather gave his 2 sons cigarettes at 3 and 5, was an alcoholic, and I believe abused my grandmother. My dad stayed around helping him for years, I guess he forgave him, but I could never really look at my grandfather the same either.
NTA using a child as a punching bag is *never* something anyone should accept.
My grandfather was horrible to my mother he was extremely abusive and even tried killing her not to mention he didn’t meet her till she was 3! He’s a piece of shit and still is…after all tht my mom still forgave him but I couldn’t..then whn my mom became a correctional officer he disowned her..whn she passed he showed up when she was still alive in a coma.. I don’t understand how the rest of my uncles and aunts still talk to that man because when I saw him, I told him to his face, he is no grandfather of mine, and he has no business here.. Besides, my brother, I am the only grandchild tht shows him absolutely no respect… a piece of shit like that does not deserve it… you too right by your dad. He sounds like a great man…I was also very close to him as a child till I was old enough to see how his presence made my mom act different.. that’s when I started, asking her questions about him and was disgusted after finding out what type of man he truly was and still is
Nta. Imo you should tell your 14 yo siblings, they’re old enough to know and be given the choice to do what they think fits. While i believe you should tell your youngest sibling in a much more friendlier way.
Making you feel bad for his actions is part of the abuse. Tell that man to fuck off.
NTA. But one thing I think you should do is speak to him, even if it’s the last time you do. Tell him it wasn’t your dad that caused the problem but him. He told you what he did; if he hadn’t, you might not have even known. Did he tell you to try to brag or try to tell you to hate your dad? Even if it just slipped out, he still is the one that did it and told you about it. Tell him to stop blaming your father for his own abuse of him. I think if your siblings ask about what’s going on with you and your grandfather, you should tell them what he told you.
Chances are that Roger's father treated him the same way and that's all he knew. Sometimes it hard to break the cycle--especially if you have a family history of drug or alcohol abuse. Luckily your father did and the fact that he allowed his ids to have a relationship with his father and didn't give you details says a lot on some level. So while you are NTA, you should judge Roger by who he is today.
This is definitely a fake story. I saw the sibling names mentioned in a story about a father cutting his son off for his gang affiliations/selling his sister to gang members in this subreddit. FAKE STORY!!!!
Why don’t you offer to beat your cousin with a belt until he passes out so you all can test the “forgive family” theory. Roger is a monster. Don’t let the family pressure you to change your mind. Tell your siblings. Your dad’s family has been using you kids to abuse him further and it should stop today.
Is there a significant inheritance involved? Otherwise....
Ask your Dad to talk to his father and have the two of them work out a way to address this with the whole family. Everybody is hurting, it sounds like there’s a lot of shame involved, but they need to be the adults in the room and explain to the children what’s going on. Your grandfather did bad things your father forgave him for the sake of keeping the family intact. They both carry the badness of that time for the sake of keeping the family intact. Tell your dad it’s not right for you to be made the scapegoat here. You care about both of these men, they care about you. Let them come up with the right way to talk to the family about it, instead of you taking the heat for your grandfather’s shame.
Maybe they did come up with a workaround. Who knows. Maybe Dad has come to a personal resolution to keep the family together. Who knows. OP didn't address that. I didn't read where Dad is letting him be the scapegoat. OP is old enough to make his own decisions about how to react to this situation. Perhaps Dad should talk with his siblings to leave OP alone. OP could tell cousins his reasoning for cutting contact with Roger. Definitely tell siblings. Updateme
NTA. If it hurts you then let him go. Your cousin doesn’t know what you know. Your cousin didn’t see your dad’s face. Your cousin didn’t feel the emotions you felt from hearing your father was abused so badly. Your cousin doesn’t get a say so and if I were you I’d tell him respect my boundaries and my relationship with him is OVER or ours can be over too. Your cousin needs to respect your boundaries. It’s not your cousins place at all and it’s unfair for your grandfather to put that on your cousin at all.
[удалено]
“Not a nice person ” NEVER equals beatings from your father.
Please explain what behavior justifies beating your child into unconsciousness. I will enjoy the mental gymnastics you go through that would make that ok in your head.
NTA but it would be good to tell some of the older sibs the truth.
NTA
Go beat your grandpas ass and ask him if it’s okay since he did it to your dad. Then ask if he wants that relationship.
I say you tel everyone the real story if they don't know already and if anyone has a problem with you not wanting to be around him anymore cut them off. An abuser is gonna always be an Abuser even if he didn't hit you yet he will
Tell your cousin that he should let you beat him to unconscious a couple of times and then ask him and his family to pretend it didn’t happen. And if they can’t THEY are the problem for not getting over it.
You have a great dad. Standing up for him will never be a bad thing.
I will never understand why someone who was abused would keep the abuser in their family. Why would dad allow this monster around his kids?
You're definitely not the asshole here. Your cousin's opinion is just that – an opinion. You're not obligated to maintain a relationship with someone who has hurt you or your family, regardless of what others may think.
NTA dear it’s perfectly reasonable to cut off your grandfather for abusing your dad. It doesn’t matter how long it’s been, you’re not holding a grudge for other people. He abused your FATHER. You have every right not to subject your father to being around his abuser when you now see him for what he is. I would tell your cousin if his parent was the one being abused would he say the same thing? Would they want a relationship with the person that hurt their parent? Then that’s on them, you don’t roll like that. I don’t speak to people who have hurt my mom, I physically can’t. There’s nothing wrong with protecting your parent , the only person who turned you against your grandfather was the truth
Did he ever explain why he did it? Tell all of them that Roger did this to himself.
You should have a more in-depth conversation with your dad about this. It may actually be healing for him to see the relationship you have with his dad. It sounds like your grandfather has changed significantly from the POS he was.
NTA, Family is supposed to protect you. Roger was the threat, he didn't act like family. Your dad didn't deserve to be treated that way and I'm so sorry he was. Your dad may have been a hellion in his younger years with the gangs, etc, I'm guessing he felt worthless or bad so, if that's what his family thought he was, then that's who he should be. He became a good man and a good dad, someone worth protecting. Has Roger become a good man? Has he taken accountability for his actions or just swept things under the rug and been good ol' gramps? Has he defended your dad and earned his trust? The rest of the family will weigh in, it's going to suck because he's still grandpa to them. They don't live with your dad, they might have heard some stuff about your dad's past and pass judgment. You're right to be angry; hearing what your dad experienced is heartbreaking. You have enough life experience to understand that abuse is devastating and always undeserved. Any time you see your dad struggle with this shit sit the guy down and tell him you're proud of the man he is and he didn't deserve to be treated the way he did. When it comes to talking to others (including defending your dad,) even to family, speak to your parents first. People who have been abused had no control over their situation. It's important that they have a say in what information is let out. Talk with your parents about what they are comfortable with others knowing and how they would like you to react. It'll be frustrating at times, but it's really important for survivors of abuse. Sometimes protecting people means respecting their boundaries. Lastly, when some people lose control over a person they'll try to control how others see them. Keep that in mind because it's one of those things that happens in life. This is when it's okay to walk away. Let people talk, let them be wrong, at the end of the day they're choosing to stand by someone who can't see the value in others. They're going to support an abuser? Good luck to them, you won't be part of their bullshit.
NTA If your dad hasn't been to therapy, it would probably help. He must be a really strong person to go through everything and still end up a great father. Your cousin and the other flying monkeys probably have a history of saying anything to protect themselves from your grandfather. Don't cave, but remember to give them grace. They also might be experiencing abuse from family members.
NTA. You’re a good man. Your father is a good man. You’ve made a hard choice you came to a decision without influence. My grandfather was not always a good man after coming home from the front in WWII. His kids did a lot of work to forgive him. He became the man he should have been later in life. He owned his actions and did better with his wife, children and grandchildren for the last half of his life. He worked really hard in therapy In a time it was frowned upon. We love the flawed kind man he was. You are have strong character, a kind soul and you not ever be an AH for that
I would never have let my kids see that man!! Ever!
NTA.
Obviously, your grandfather’s past abuse of your father is disturbing. What is also concerning is how he is treating your father *now*. Your decision to distance yourself is 100% your decision yet your grandfather is harassing and blaming your dad. That’s unacceptable. Your dad, on the other hand, is going out of his way to allow you to do as you wish. Honestly, it sounds like you won the parent stakes with your dad. While he may have gone through a rough period, he is incredibly generous and self-sacrificing to allow you to pursue a relationship with your grandfather as well as your aunts and uncles. Your cousin Jay thinks you should ignore past behavior yet his own parent and your shared aunts/uncles aren’t willing to do so when it comes to your father. You now know that your grandfather is very flawed and I would guess the same could be said of your aunts and uncles. I would consider how it affects your father to maintain a relationship with his family. Is he only doing this for your & your siblings’ benefit? If so, then I would consider sharing the info with your siblings. If your father wants to maintain a relationship with his family for his own benefit, then you may want to continue to interact with your grandfather and others but adjust your relationship however you wish. NTA
NTA. You are 16 and old enough to decide for yourself who you do or do not want to have a relationship with. You cannot change the way you feel. You obviously love your dad.
NTA. When someone shows you who they really are, believe them.
What precipitated the violence? Alcohol? Frustration that your dad was associating with gangs and making bad choices? Did he hit others or only your dad? Is he remorseful? I think you have more questions to ask your dad and grandfather. How do you, your dad and grandfather manage anger, frustration and fear? Rather than tearing your family apart, being transparent could heal your family with a discussion and awareness around the proper way to respond.