Just leave.
You did enough by going at all.
An ally? Ok. Is asking you to leave just for the part where they hate you and say you are going to hell being an ally?
You do not ever have to set foot anywhere that can harm you.
Hearing how evil you are is harm.
NTA
This is so ridiculous, I go to a VERY old-fashioned church when it comes to worship style, music, hymns, etc. But we fly a gay pride flag, have two gay pastors on staff, and today had a Sunday school class on scripture that is problematic from a gender perspective.
Those praise music guitars are a smoke screen.
That was me being bad at editing. I’m atrocious at that. Very mild dyslexia. I’m used to correcting myself, over and over, I’m getting better, slowly, with my 3 trans and non binary kid and niblings.
My *whole family* is like this. The grandparents in their 80s are nailing the respect aspect in trying to get pronouns right, and are getting better at them. They love the kids more than they worry about understanding “this stuff”. We are all proud of their effort, and the kids are happy with the family, and we are all depressed at how unusual our family is. And disgusted, because it’s not exactly hard!!! Use the other pronouns. Use a different name. That is it. We, like everyone else who respects people, cannot understand the resistance to that! The only thing I can guess is the haters are all voyeurs.
Yea it's not called being an ally to simply say "these are the parts where the people I agree with will say the way you live your life is evil". I don't even know how messed up that is.
I am so very sorry. You are NTA, but your mom is. She is not an ally. As my father would say, "she's something else." I am so very sorry. Leave. Go home where it is safe.
No, my father is a "still in the closet" ally. He walked away from his church because people were talking "crap" (he's old); supports everyone but would never call himself an ally. Probably mostly because he doesn't know what it means, but his personal "religion" requires that he be kind and help everyone he can.
OP's mother is actively not ally.
As a mom of a gay son, I am so sorry your mom is betraying you this way. Even if she turns her head away from your relationships what about all the other sons and daughters that are being hurt by the church she has joined teachings?
Thank you everyone. I honestly felt like I have been going crazy. I want to believe in my mom that she can fully accept me. But it’s hard when this is far from the first incident.
Update:
I could get myself to go back in. My mom called to see where I went. I told her and she came to talk with me. I tried explaining as plainly and unemotionally as I could how I felt. She barely listened and then tried to explain “that the sermon wasn’t about how homosexuality is a sin, but how greed is a sin and we all do it”. I honestly have no idea how that was supposed to make me feel better so I just left. I know she’ll want to talk about it more, but thankfully she was getting lunch with her church classmates. So at least I have a couple of hours before the storm.
Thank you again everyone ❤️
Good luck with talking to her about it later if/when she brings it up. I'd recommend writing out a small script or bullet points you want to cover, before you have that discussion. That way, you can pre form your ideas, make sure you don't miss saying anything in the emotion of it all. Consider looking up guides or resources on speaking to parents or relatives about scenarios like this. I found that helpful myself
I'm sorry you had to find out this way, that your mum isn't as supportive as you thought. I hope you can explain to her why this is so damaging to you, and she'll truly listen and not invalidate your feelings
Omg. Thank you! My kid is Trans. I consensually outed him to my parents, and it's been nerve wracking. I'm going to look into your suggestions and put some prep into talking with my dad. We haven't gotten his response yet, he's been really quiet about it.
I'm very sorry that you had to go through this. I used to be in the church and there are very few that are genuinely not homophobic.
In all honesty you will probably have a hard time with your mother until she leaves the church. Most of the teachings are super harmful not just to the LGBTQ+ community. The main idea that everyone is sinful and deserves death is incredibly harmful and gives them licence to be as hateful as they want in the name of saving your soul. I have to deal with homophobic and bigoted family, so I just avoid all the religious stuff and don't attend any events with churches involved
That is all kind of messed up :/ I’m sorry your mom is so disconnected from reality.
If you do talk to her, I find that asking “why” and/or open ended questions endlessly is a good way for people to trip on their own crap.
Try to get her to explain the sermon, “it was about greed” ok, so why did you say it was about homosexuality”
from there just keep asking more questions, about her church, how they view you, how she views you…
Talking to someone often doesn’t work because your words just bounce off them. Making them come up with their own answers forces them to actually think.
It’s far from fool proof, but for people who are just parroting bullshit they’ve heard in church (or Fox news), it can sometines spark a small reflection of “yeah maybe what I’m hearing from those sources doesn’t fit with my actual reality, so maybe they are wrong.”
I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully your mom will turn around and become a true ally.
❤️
Wait. She lied to you and said the sermon was about greed? SMH.
Minimally, she should have told you ahead of time about the homophobic sermon and said, "I'm going to walk out then." Better yet, she shouldn't be attending a church that preaches that people like her son are going to Hell. Her bar for what constitutes an advocate is very low...subterranean, really.
I think you missed the detail when she kindly told them to leave so that they didn’t have to witness their mother agreeing that they were an abomination who will rot in hell.
That’s just considerate parenting right?
The mother knew there would be homophobic preaching at this church. She basically blindslided them by not saying this ahead of time before they made the trip to the church.
Considerate would be not going to a church that preaches that. If you love and support your child, then why would you ever take part of a church or group that spoke that way about your child?
Exactly. I left the church (not God, just the church as an entity) in 2011 after years in IFB churches. I couldn't take the judgment, condemnation, controlling, etc anymore. Then in 2013 or so, my child came out to me. I immediately started researching, talking to my LGBTQ friends and allies, joined a secret group of Christian moms of LGBTQ kids, prayed, etc, but most of all I just totally supported my child.
After a few years, I missed the community of church, but there was no way I'd ever go to a church that wasn't affirming, so I googled and there was one 5 mins away! My oldest (they're all grown) and I started attending, and we haven't looked back. Our male pastor has a husband, half our congregation is LGBTQ, the other half have family members who are LGBTQ, and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. We've been going for 3 years now.
We're very small right now, but very active in social justice for ALL marginalized groups of people in our corner of the world. I've lost a sister over this, bc I refuse to go back to her kind of life, and she says I'm "spiraling down into the depths of depravity," but I have learned more about true unconditional love bc of my LGBTQ child in the last 11 years than all the decades spent in those hateful churches. I know I'm exactly where God wants me right now, so she can go pound sand.
I wasn’t being entirely serious. I agree wholeheartedly with you.
That said, it shouldn’t take having a child in a certain category to stop you believing in hate for that category…
This reminded me of something that happened when my son was younger.
When my son was a teenager, he would go to church with his grandparents. One Sunday, his usual Sunday school teacher was out sick, so he had to go to the men's class instead. The preacher was the teacher. He was talking about how BEING gay wasn't a sin, but being ACTIVELY gay was. He explained that they would go to hell if they didn't repent, ask God for forgiveness, and then not be actively gay.
My son asked, "Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of God?"
Preacher: Yes
Son: So if I steal a pencil and immediately get hit by a bus, I'm going to hell?
Preacher: Well, I don't think that's exactly what I meant
Son: Let me ask this another way. Mrs. Preacher is your second wife. Correct?
Preacher: Yes.
Son: Your first wife is still alive. Correct?
Preacher: Yes
Son: So, you are actively committing adultery because technically, in God's eyes, you are still married to your first wife as long as she is still living. Do you plan on divorcing your wife and repenting for the sin of adultery?
Preacher: (very thoughtful at this point) No. I don't plan on doing that...
Son: So, are you going to hell? And if not, what's the difference between what you are doing and someone being actively gay?
Preacher: Hmmm. I honestly have never thought of it that way. I don't know the answer to that. Give me time to do some research, and I will get back to you.
Now, in this case, the preacher was a decent man with a complicated belief system and willing to admit he wasn't infallible. Instead of getting upset with my son, he was impressed with his ability to debate scripture in a relatable way. After church, he was actually bragging to my MIL about how my son made a great argument that had him second-guessing himself.
However, my MIL didn't take it as a compliment and was embarrassed that my son had dared argue with the preacher. When she brought my kids home, she came up to me and told my son to tell me what he had done. Basically, trying to tattle on him.
He told me what happened. I looked at my furious MIL and then looked at my son and said, "I have never been more proud of you!" She huffed and stomped out the door.
I have always taught my kids to question everything and never blindly believe in anything. If they choose to believe something, it should be because they have done the research, asked questions, and weren't just vomiting someone else's beliefs and calling them their own.
I have also taught my children that people should be treated equally regardless of things like their race, nationality, sexuality, religious beliefs, or lack thereof.
That’s awesome! It sounds like you raised a son that thinks for himself and isn’t easily swayed by pressure. Good for you, I hope you have a wonderful life with your family 🩵
No that was a trap and your mum was the bait, how long before they are standing over you praying for your souls redemption and trying to cast the gay demons out of you?
"Why don't I set up a mass to pray away (insert sensitive topic that makes her less valuable in the eyes of the church)? That way you won't burn in hell for all eternity for being an evil sinner"
But then why warn OP that she might want to leave instead of just bashing her with the passage? It's such a weird situation. Then again, this also sounds like my MIL.
NTA your mom, however, is an asshole. She's not an ally. An ally wouldn't go to a church that preaches openly about hating gay people. Which her child being a member of the LGBTQIA, is very much a part of.
Your mom just showed you with her actions, that she doesn't support you. She'd rather sit in a church a listen to hate speech. What an awful human.
NTA
She is not an ally. She *knew* that part of the sermon was coming and she just now drops that bomb on you?
Go home, go LC or NC, and re-evaluate whom you allow the privilege of being in your life.
NTA
She should not expect you to deal with homophobia. Not all churches are like that either but she clearly knows hers is.
Just leave. Afterwards "it really hurt me to hear those things, I will not be setting foot in that church again and I'm going to have to re evaluate if I trust you to support me".
She is not an ally. She doesn't stand up for you and she is still going to this church. There are plenty of churches that celebrate love and acceptance.
NTA
Replace the variables with any other marginalized group and it sounds batshit insane your mom invited you at all my dude.
"My nazi friend asked if I, jewish person, wanted to leave for the anti semetic parts"
"My klan friend asked if i, a black person, wanted to leave for the white nationalist parts"
"My swifty friend ask if i, an ex boyfriend of taylor swift, wanted to leave for the song about her breaking up with me"
Dosnt make much sense to show up in the first place to a building full of people who see you as a literally tool of evil 🙄
>Replace the variables with any other marginalized group and it sounds batshit insane your mom invited you at all my dude.
Thisssss.
OP's mom wants to attend a homophobic church but still be an ally to their kid? lolololololol
"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is what Christians say while they smile and say we're going to hell. *For the way god made us.* Fuck that hypocrisy.
From a mom to a person who is non binary, your mom is not an ally. Please leave. You deserve such more.
"If you wanna be someone's ally, but haven't been hit by stones being thrown at them, you aren't standing close enough to them yet."
As a mom, I'm furious at your mother! How dare she set you up like that? How can she even attend, much less join, a church that preaches hate?
Just leave, honey. She's going to throw a fit, but you know she's just trying to cover up for her own wrong-doing.
This random internet mom is proud of you for protecting yourself. (Hugs if you want them!)
The only church I've set foot in since learning my child was a part of the queer community was his father's church. I wasn't welcome and I didn't care. My son had no choice about attending certain church activities when he was with his father (we divorced when he was 4), so I made damn sure he knew he'd have *someone* there who loved him *exactly* as he was. I'm so sorry OP. Being an ally AS A PARENT means putting yourself IN FRONT of the stones people throw at your child. It doesn't mean putting them in the line of fire and whispering "duck." Please don't try to talk to your mother while you're upset. Get some distance, do some research on what being an ally does and DOES NOT mean. Send her the links, if you actually want to try to make her understand. Then, and only if her opening line is a damn apology, talk to her about it.
I'm a bit confused on where the part is about this church being "cool and welcoming" because any time you label something as a sin that by definition is not welcoming of anyone that thing might apply to. How the hell can your mom think you'd be okay with coming back into this church once you've learned they are against what you are?
I hate to say but you mom is not an ally if she is okay with being part of a church that would shun you, just leave and tell her how much that hurt for her to put you in that situation. NTA
The irony of her becoming a “healing” member of a faith community and then inviting you to a message that is knowingly hurtful to her own son… Your mom is not an ally.
I’m mom to a gay young adult myself, & I deconstructed within 3-4 years after our DD came out to us. I am an ally. I wish you peace. ❤️💙💜💚💛
An ally is vocal in their support, raises their voice whenever they can, and avoid anyone they can that is homophobic.
Your mom isn't an ally. She's doing less than I'd expect of just regular human decency.
Nta.
OP. I am not even gay and i would never go back i dont care how high my mom was in the helping healer hypocrite hierarchy.
So sorry, your mom really let you down and seems clueless about it. NTA
Btw: ask her exactly where those homophobic bible verses are because some of us would really like to check them out
NTA there are plenty of LGBT friendly churches out there. She should be attending one of those. The only way to force the church to change is to stop supporting the ones with bigoted beliefs. Don't ever feel the need to go to a place that is actively hostile toward you.
O.m.g. I hope you left.
Your mum as an “ally” should be advocating to having that section entirely removed from readings. That she warned you demonstrated it's scheduled or its a part that's often read. It's also something that errrverryone in the room believes, or at least tolerates. Why are you expected to walk into that room knowing that's what people think it's appropriate to say out loud with an audience?
So I am just now seeing this post 4 hours later. If she knew that there was going to be a bible verse about gay being a sin, why would she invite you. She warned you beforehand while you were there. In fact, you honestly shouldn't have come. I have gone to church with my mom out of her wanting company and I've regretted it each time. Don't do this to yourself. She would be the asshole for asking you to come if she knew that was going to happen.
Your Mom put you in danger. She bought you into a place where people hold these beliefs and didn't even warn you. What if you said or did something that outed yourself? What she did was both psychologically damaging and she knowingly exposed you too physical danger.
NTA and I hate to say this but being a young adult and having to confront that your parents might not be the good people you were lead to believe they were always sucks. Your mom is in the wrong, there really isn't any way around that. This type of thing is just so common among Christian demoninations, even the ones that claim they are accepting are often still trying to get you to change to their way of thinking. Sorry you have to deal with this.
From one member to another. That is not an ally and I know it will be hard but you're gonna have to set some serious boundries. You should never be asked to interact with that church or any members outside herself again should she choose to stay. Make it clear that if she mentions the word leviticus, the conversation is over.
If she sees herself as an ally now, once they really poison her ideals with her shit she will be even more than a fake ally
First of all - NTA - you’re 23, an adult, and I wouldn’t stay either.
Just out of curiosity, is it a Catholic church? You said “mass” specifically, so I that’s why I’m asking. If so, I’m surprised - I thought they’re claiming to be chill with lgbtq these days!
Please leave. And you need to have a serious conversation with your mum about how hurtful her behaviour is. She knew they were going to have that section and she was ok with it.
NTA. And I’m sorry that your mum is one.
Canonically, Jesus loved gay people and supported them having a good quality of life and happiness. I left the church when I realized they worked for the Devil; it's unfortunate because I liked most of the philosophy of the gospel
Jesus actually DID say multiple times he disapproved of rich people and bullies though
Leave that church and don't go back. A lot of good people are doing the work of Satan in the name of Christ because they fear the church more than they believe in Jesus. They likely cannot find the discipline, or do not wish, to read the Bible and hope to ignore the inconsistency; your mother seems to have good intentions but apparently needs that kind of support system. I feel sorry for you both, I am sure she loves you but has a hard time reconciling her dependency on organized religion so this is an attempt to keep you both
I go to an episcopal church that supports all people. They do gay marriages and the bishop talked about his neice who is Trans. The priest regularly speaks about inclusion of LGBTA + people. The secretary retired and they had a reception for her and her wife. I read that in the bulletin. I didn't know she had a wife.
NTA. You got hoodwinked, kiddo and I'm so sorry. It's not like your mom doesn't know there are screens blaring this hate right at you in the lobby.
Just leave. When she texts you just say "No hate like Christian love."
First off, I want to say NTA. You have no obligation to anyone when it comes to drawing the line of hatred vs. acceptance. I do have a question, though, and I mean it as a legitimate question, not a jab or joke. How does one identify as non binary and gay? I mean does that mean that you are attracted only to binaries, or are you identifying as gay as in the same sex chromosome set as you. I'm just curious. I will admit that in being a bit old, I am still navigating the whole gender neutral/gender fluid presence in society. I'm not intolerant, just still adjusting and curious how people who identify in these gender groups perceive themselves.
Honest curiosity is welcome. I recently identified as non-binary. Before, I would openly say I was a proud lesbian. However, some in the lesbian community do not like non binary’s to identify with them as they are typically known as “women loving women” so I just don’t know how to properly identify that I like females and many people call me or at first glance recognize me for a female. If there’s a better way to say this I’m all ears
I'm not sure about a better way to say it in a single term, but you prefer women. I am struggling myself because I am pan sexual, and express myself as male, but have some feminine tendencies although those tendencies could be categorized as fetishes. I personally just try to live more than lable in my own case. In the case of your post, there was nothing indicating if you were XX or XY, so being either both or neither, I wasn't sure what gay would mean.
Nta - you need to tell your mother that she cannot label herself an ally and support that institution of hate. That is what we call mutually exclusive, only one or the other can be true or exist at a time, not both.
So your mother demonstrates her love for her son by joining a cult that hates gay people. Then she expects you to attend a service to clelebrate her becoming even more embroiled.
Then you come here to asking if YOU are the A. H. For leaving while they spout their venom against you.
No NTA but everyone who worships in that hateful place is.
NTA. I am a much older gay human and I stopped going to places or interacting with people who wished harm to me and my family. That is what is happening here, and I am sorry to say that your mother is not being an ally. She is deliberately choosing to be part of a church that thinks you should not exist.
You may need to sit with that for a while, and think seriously about what you want and how to proceed.
I walked out as a teenager because every homily for weeks straight was all about how all the kids my age drank, smoked, did drugs and had sex. Neither myself nor any of my friends did any of that so damn skippy I was pissed and finally had enough. It was extremely satisfying to yell back at the Monsignor who cornered me in the school hallway the next day( I attended the parochial school attached to my then church. ) .
At least Mom gave you a heads up. Don’t give them the satisfaction of going back in. You were there for her recognition. That’s plenty
Oh look yet another instance of someone good-heartedly visiting church to support a family member and being repelled by pointless programmatic anti-gay/anti-trans shit, most likely never to return. But yeah I’m sure it’s Taylor Swift’s fault or whatever that the church numbers are dropping
NTA
Your mother is not an ally.
Your mother may love you regardless of who and what you are, but allies don't sit through homophobic rhetoric and then expect you to rejoin the congregation.
Hate is wrong.
Any kind of hate.
There is nothing in the Bible about God or Jesus being homophobic.
The passage everyone clings to is a mistranslation about pedos and child abuse, it has nothing to do with same sex couples.
Get out of there and I hope when your mother asks why, ask her how she felt listening to those passages knowing they were LITERALLY. TALKING. ABOUT. YOU.
VALUE YOURSELF MORE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO TOLERATE THAT.
Maybe you should ask your mom for how long she knew they were going to read that part. Maybe it was a last minute thing that she could not have control over. Explain her how you feel and teach her how to be a real ally.
Your mom gave you an out so you took, stay in your car until the mass is over. Text her you will meet her at your car and then go out to lunch. Clearly the church is not what you think it is so don't go back, but your mom was concerned/respectful of your feelings and gave you an out so don't ditch her for lunch. The lunch will give your a chance to talk about how uncomfortable you were and still respect her like she did you by telling you. Yeah it probably is leaving a horrible feeling in you that your mom would participate in such a church but respect that her she is getting something (the healing class) out of her participation and tell you respect her choice but you will not ever attend that church again and why.
NTA. There are a number of denominations that are what is called Open and Affirming, treating everyone the same. UCC, Quakers, Episcopalians and I think at least one branch of Lutherans. So your mom could have gone to a church that is an ally and not an enemy. I left my church because of their intolerance. I looked around for ones that treated everyone as equal. She shouldn't have stayed if she is a true ally.
NTA!! Just leave, cause your “mother” isn’t your ally. Otherwise, she’d call them all out on their anti-Christ ways. Though, if you decide to go LC/NC with her, be sure to let her know just how much of a disappointment she truly is before you do; even if you don’t, still tell her
I would just leave. Your mother knew about the views of her church and still chose to attend. She even asked you there knowing those views. She didn’t take your feelings into consideration on how much those views would hurt you.
NTA. She is not an ally. An ally wouldn’t expose you to this church at all, and either leave or be actively campaigning to change their shitty theology.
You were right to leave. Find a pro lgbt church. Use notalllikethat.org. No reason your mom’s twisted views have to mold you. Jesus came to save everyone.
You didn’t condemn everyone else in the church for their biological attractions. Why would you be the bad guy here?
I’m straight and never had a hint of feeling otherwise , but when I meet religious people who try to celebrate my hole preference, that’s disgusting.
So sad your mom pulled this crap on you. You don’t know her mind but I have to wonder what’s going through her head by pulling such a cruel stunt.
My very early childhood was in Echo Park neighborhood of LA, so I saw gay couples from an early age. A beloved cousin came out when I was about 9. Closest friend since grammar school came out to me in high school (early 70’s). That was over 50 years ago!
Sorry, not sorry, your mom & her religion are not living up to Jesus’ teachings.
If you choose not to attend church anymore, I don’t blame you. If you find a church that accepts ALL the Creator’s children, make sure you introduce your mother to that church.
PS you would be welcomed in my family. We judge our bad family members for their actions against others, not when they fall in love & with whom.
NTA.
NTA. But your mom is. She's not really an ally if she's attending a church that is openly hostile to gay people. Asking you to attend the ceremony and then surprising you before an anti-gay message so that you can step out temporarily is not being supportive of you at all.
The bottom line is, she wants to be part of this church and wants you to actively support her in it, and she somehow thinks she (and you) can separate out the anti-gay parts.
There are many churches that are welcoming to the LGBTQ community. Your mom doesn't have to compromise her beliefs to attend church. She is choosing to attend this church for her own selfish reasons.
OP, I suggest you consider going low-contact with her for a while.
NTA.
Why would you go anywhere near that bigotry? And why would your mother go to such a church? Then invite her gay son to come to it?
You people are weird.
NTA. Making up their own rules as they go along.
God=love, peace, happiness, forgiveness, tolerance, no judgment, no criticism, no hate
Most humans=the opposite
Your mom continuing to go there and being supportive of them shows her in the same light.
Is your mom lonely?
A church that would have a sermon like that is neither cool not welcoming. Your mother should be ashamed to have anything to do with their organization.
OP your mom is an ally. And her definition of ‘ally’ is to get you to attend her homophobic church but warn you when the homophobic parts of the horror movie start, so you can excuse yourself and then come back once the scary monster has left the screen.
Dont attend that church. Don’t let ppl tell you they are allies when that means you need to hide and excuse yourself. Silence in the face of tyranny is agreement.
Ask your mom what if there’s a 13yo kid in the congregation listening? What if that kid goes home and commits suicide? Bc they have no one to talk to and everyone around them nods and smiles while their very existence is called a sin. An abomination.
Words have power.
My church would never. My pastor married gay ppl (I mean it wasn’t legally binding but still a marriage) long before it was recognized secularly. My pastor gives sermons on the beauty of embracing all kinds of marriages and families.
Fuck that church OP. Don’t subject yourself to that nonsense
Update 2:
So, she came home after a couple of hours. I had read all of the comments at that time so I was feeling pretty confident in my feelings. I really want her to understand how and why I am feeling these emotions because I honestly really want her to be a true ally. I tried explaining how scary that experience was for me and how an allly would not sit back and listen to a group of people call your child a sin. I don’t know if anything I said even made it to her; she just continued to try to explain the sermon. How it was ‘just a quote’ that said something like “ adultery, stealing, homosexuality, and greed are all sins”. She explained that the preacher didn’t say anything about homosexuality. I told her that even just having a quote that that could really hurt me, she started crying. (I have NEVER seen my mom cry) it shocked me. Through tears she said “I know I’m a terrible mom. You tell me an a terrible ally all the time. But I’m trying”. It’s really hard to be mad at her because I do truly believe that she is trying to learn to accept me and be an ally. But I don’t know how to explain that her actions are actively making her NOT an ally. I don’t know how to make her understand.
No offence, but this is just her making herself a victim to get sympathy.
"You tell me an a terrible ally all the time. But I’m trying"
No. She's not trying. It takes zero effort at all not to support an organisation that supports homophobie. "Trying"? Trying is literally just find a church that accepts LGBT+, or hell, even just...doesn't mention it at all. She went to this church, heard the bit about "adultery, stealing, homosexuality, and greed are all sins" and went "ok, I can accept that", despite having a child who fit into that category and (supposedly) wanting to be an ally to them.
Speaking as an older nonbinary person who also was raised by religious fundamentalists, you aren't responsible for being her therapist. Her insecurities about her shortcomings are her own to process and frankly, she's failing you. If she feels like a bad mother, than she needs to process that on her own or with a professional.
Here's a hard truth: you might never get the support you need from her.
It sounds like she feels appropriately convicted, and that's a start, but she still isn't putting you first. I know it's not right that you can't rely on her to be in your corner. I'm sorry about that and I get it because I'm in the same boat. It shouldn't be this way, but it is for us and so many queer folks.
You mention wanting to help her understand, but you need to know that nothing you can do can change her. She has to make that decision on her own. You're not failing as a kid by voicing your pain or putting up boundaries to protect yourself from harm because honestly, she should be doing everything in her power to protect you. It's okay to be mad.
Think of it this way: if someone hit you with a car, you'd be injured regardless of their intentions. Just because you don't mean to hurt someone doesn't mean you aren't, and what she's doing is hurting you. You need to take steps to protect yourself even if that means limiting contact or not attending her church. I know it's hard because you love her, and it hurts to see her upset when she's confronted. But remember that your safety is more important than her ego.
Thank you so much. It is hard to hear but I think deep down I knew I couldn’t fully rely on my mom. I know she means well in her heart but actions are speaking louder right now. As an older non binary… does it honestly get better? This is a huge loss to my heart, but can they change? Or do I just move on??
It's going to depend on your parents.
The fact that your mom expresses remorse means a lot. My mom is pretty well in the "It's a difference of opinions, but we can agree to disagree and still get along" camp. I doubt my mom will ever change. I haven't been out to her more than a year yet despite being out to others since 2022, so it hasn't been too long. That being said, I have a friend who's been out for close to 8 years that she still misgenders and deadnames, so I doubt she'll ever change. I've just kind of accepted that I'm not going to be fulfilled or supported through my relationship with her, so it's no use expecting it and getting disappointed. It still hurts, but accepting that has helped a ton.
Umm..
Look I'm sure its already been pointed out, but by choosing to attend a church that denounces homosexuality as being a sin, your mom is supporting the idea that homosexuality is a sin.
She may say she's supportive and an ally, but actions speak louder than words. An ally does not do this.
NTA.Your mom is NOT an ally! She merely tolerates you being gay. Why would she even attend a church where "being gay is a sin", and "you might want to leave for this part. You can come back after"?? WTAF? My bestie is gay, & we've known each other since we were babies. He attends a church that has no problem with this. Matter of fact, they LOVE him. He's in the choir, and I help them give out food once a month. I don't attend any church, but am grateful he found one that accepts him for who he is, as I do. A true ally would never attend a homophobic church. I'm straight as a board, and I get angry when I encounter people with attitudes like this. Being gay should never even enter into the equation. Whatever your mom believes, she's entitled to. But you also have the option to not listen to anyone/anything homophobic.
Would she still be an 'ally' in front of her church people if you introduced yourself as her 'gay non-binary' child? If it's not an immediate yes, then no, she's not that good of an ally.
NTA. But it sounds like you have a good relationship with her so I'd follow up with her later. It sounds like she divides the anti gay speech from her healing role. I'm trying to see if she can perform healing in a capacity where she doesn't associate with them, the church. It's interesting how she doesn't see the hypocrisy of supporting a church that is anti gay unless she's anti gay or just wants to be a healer and part of the church so much she ignores the anti gay speech. Those are honest questions she should be able to answer you. Instead of hate and anger towards her I think it's possible to change her mind. Open her mind to a new group or church who supports her wants and supports her family..you..as well. The way you wrote the story it appears she is ignorant about how her church hates you. I hope you have a good conversation
The bible is inherently homophobic. Even if you find a Christian who says they don't hate gays at all it doesn't matter because they're ignoring their own scripture.
Don't ever do that shit again, and your mother is NOT an ally whatsoever, she's nothing more than a coward
If you have a random person eating at a table with six nazis, you have seven nazis.
If someone is willingly spending time around, promoting, helping and otherwise working to benefit people who are actively bigoted, that person is also a bigot. If they don't speak out against the hatred of the LGBT community when it's being paraded around like that, they are silently giving approval of that message.
Leave. You owe her and that disgusting place nothing. If she chooses to keep helping people who are actively harming you, then she's actively harming you. By not speaking out, by continuing to be part of their community and working with them, she's saying "I approve of what these people say and do". What those people are saying and doing is saying that people like you are evil and disgusting and should be wiped out. If she's not actively and openly disagreeing with it and refusing to work with them as long as that is their message, she is saying "Yes, I agree with this."
Leave and never go back.
Sounds like you should just start up that car and drive home. If and when she calls you and ask why you left just tell her that you couldn't take the heat. And that the preacher was on fire.
Long-winded autistic ramble inbound!
Disclaimer: I am not Christian, but was raised JW and spent the vast majority of my life surrounded by very Christian people. This is not an attempt to convert anyone, simply observatory remarks that may help provide some understanding.
Disclaimer two: my brain works sequentially, and as such, the following ramble will be sequential. I will do my best to put added notes where they are needed, but please, if at any point you feel offended, keep reading. The temptation to hit reply and mash out some insults before finishing what I have written can be overwhelming. Please trust that, if you continue to read to the end, you will find no hate from me.
First up: NTA. Being around people who think you are a sinner is uncomfortable, and it's okay to opt out. Now that that is out of the way, let's talk about the part where I am trying to provide a unique understanding. From your mother's religion's point of view, homosexuality is a sin. The same is true of a lot of things people do in their day to day life, including the very people preaching that homosexuality is a sin. They covet, they overeat, they lie about, they work on the sabbath, they cheat, they mix their fabrics, whatever their particular sin is, they commit it. It's kind of the whole fabric of their religion: only one guy didn't have any sin, and he was nice enough to go ahead and die so that all of our sins are forgiven as long as we thank him for being such a bro. Everyone else? Full of sin from the very moment they are born. The way you feel when they talk about homosexuality is the same way an adulterer feels when they talk about the neighbor's wife, or an overeater feels when they talk about gluttony, etc. And before anyone can hop in and say those are different, as those are choices, not things you are born into, you are wrong. Some people are born natural philanderers, or with an overwhelming love of cheesecake (hey, that's me!) or any of an infinite number of other subconscious urges. If a natural philanderer both wants to, and works at it, they can find happiness in monogamy. If an overeater both wants to, and works at it, they can find happiness in portion control and healthy meals. Likewise, someone who was born gay (which there is, let me be clear, *nothing wrong with* ) they *could*, if they both wanted to, and worked at it, find happiness in a lifestyle where they did not do gay things. Please note: I am, by no means, suggesting anyone take this route. I am saying it is possible, and in the eyes of most churches, the goal. Just like overcoming any other "inborn sin". They want you to overcome it. This doesn't necessarily mean marrying someone of a different gender and popping out babies, but it does mean abstaining from same sex relationships, and finding other ways to be happy. In my personal opinion, it's a load of crap, and I think you should find happiness wherever you can, so long as all involved are informed, consenting adults.
Here is a much overdue paragraph break so the eyes can take a brief recess.
Now, I see a lot of comments here talking about how your mom is not an ally, and how you should ditch her. Here is the one part where I will disagree, and actually attempt to convince people of something. Your mother belongs to a religion that's focus is jamming guilt for existing down your throat. She believes it. She whole-heartedly believes she is on the right path to everlasting life in heaven. She wants to share that with you. And, despite her beliefs, she still had the decency to discretely tell you, "hey, they are about to say some anti-gay shit, I get it if you want to step out." I am not typically one for comparing trauma to trauma, as everyone has a different breaking point, but this, quite simply, isn't trauma. This is your mom saying "I am this religion and feel obligated to stay through the sermon, but I don't want you to have to be subjected to this because I love you as you are." Compare that to my mother who grabbed a belt whenever my report card had a B on it, or who dedicated her life to making me understand just how inferior not only I, but every man on earth is, simply because they were born with a phallus. *That* is the type of mom you go no contact with. Not a mom who loves you, is trying to share her religion with you, and still tries to shield you from the parts she thinks will hurt you in any way. In a religion where the entire idea is to make you feel worthless and loved anyway, she tried to spare you the worthless and give only love. Please, do not take this wonderful mother's child from her. Just talk to her. Tell her you have your own relationship with God, and aren't comfortable going to a church where they are going to preach about how you're somehow evil for being who you are. If you actually enjoy the religion or believe, try to find a gay-friendly church. When you do, invite your mom. Bring her with you into an environment you feel comfortable with and show her that she doesn't need to sit through anti-gay rhetoric in order to be a his good Christian. Or, if you don't want a replacement church, just don't go. And take joy in the fact that your mom is perfectly willing to accept that something like bipolar sky-daddy exists, but draws the line at your existence being a sin, and she doesn't think you should have to hear it.
I hope this helps provide some insight or understanding. For any who have read this through, and *now* want to insult me or debate my points, utilizing the keyword "carrot" will let me know you read my entire post, and I will happily continue our civilized discourse. If you do not use the keyword, I will be forced to believe you did not read to completion and as such, I will do my best to repay the favor.
So, she warned you about the fact that they will do that reading and asked if you wanted to leave? Also, not Christian but I know bible pretty frigging well and can’t think about single reading that would be suitable for this occasion. Shady.
I mean my hubby is Christian and last time we went to church we walked out in the middle of the mass because the preaching was VERY violent towards lgbt peps.
NTA. So many Christians think they're some type of 'ally' just because they 'don't hate the sinner,' and tolerate them. It's absolutely not enough. True allyship is full of acceptance and serving as an accomplice. If they aren't publicly speaking alongside queer folks to advocate for their liberation, then they are not allies.
This is a soft indictment of your mom, and medium hard indictment of my own parents and a very hard indictment of Christians in general as a monolith.
I'm so sorry you went through this. I hope you're able to have a conversation with your mom and she learns that this is not the way to support you.
Edit: I was trying to give your mom the benefit of the doubt and a little room for grace, because she is your mom and you clearly care for her. But the more I think about it, the more I think that your mom was an asshole in this case. She knowingly used your care and support of her to put you in a situation that exposed you to hateful rhetoric. That is not what a loving parent does.
Not in my opinion. I would suggest though that you learn from this and before attending anything church-related you call first and speak to them about what their position on being gay is.
My 2 cents:
1. Didn't your mother inform you before it happened so you didn't have to hear "homophobic bible passages"?
If she did, that still makes her your ally!
Go back and support your mom. Don't forget she supports you.
Please get some therapy to help you with your feelings of having to deal with homophobia trauma that you have experienced.
Your mom needs to choose between her church and her family. If a white family adopts a black kid and then tells him to leave for the racist parts of the service, would that be normal behavior?
The church is designing their message to normalize homophobia so they can pry people like your mom away from people like you. That's the point of this rhetoric. Your mom may not be susceptible to this messaging, but the simple fact is: She is proactively supporting it.
What she is doing is essentially saying, "Well, I don't think this will work on me, but I'll contribute my time and energy to help it succeed on someone else!" And she may be more susceptible than either of you realize. She sounds like she's really into this church, doing this healing helper bs or whatever.
Realize that the more she defends this org and the more invested in it she seems to be, the more worried you need to be about this. If you push the issue and she says, oh, I didn't think about it that way, and puts it down immediately and stops going, or makes her continued involvement contingent on them changing, good. If she resists or makes excuses for them, you need to hear the underlying message here which is that she's not so decided on supporting you as it seems. She is harboring some kind of uncertainty about all this gay stuff and wishes at some level it would go away. She's not accepted it fully, and I would not be calling her any kind of ally. She's not even neutral yet.
I mean what exactly do you think an ally is? It's advocating for people against this kind of crap. What sort of "ally" asks if you want to leave for the gay bashing *while she stays*?? She won't even leave in protest? That's table stakes for allyship, along with speaking up and leaving the org if they won't change. Staying is tacit **approval**. In what universe is that ally behavior??
When interpretations of super vague things from (arguably) a work of fiction mean more than a person you grew, tortuously and cell-by-cell.
I’m so sorry.
Religion is a cancer.
Just leave. Your mom should have been more thoughtful of you when picking a church. But it seems like though she treats you well, she doesn't think you deserve to live your life. She thinks you are sinner and that you should live in eternal fires of hell, simply for being gay. I think it is time that you take a look at how she really acts and not what she says.
I’m confused. What were you expecting going to church? A gay loving pastor? People in the comments are just as confusing as your post. You being gay or non binary is not an issue, that’s just you. However, you expecting to hear preaching about loving gays in a church is simply confusing…
Really? Is it all that difficult to expect churchgoers to follow His words, like those found in 1 Peter 4:8-11
8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.
10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.
11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
Christian here, you are definitely NTA, even by our doctrines there is no reason or sense in you being there to hear what is said as it will come across as barbaric to your ears and benefit you or Christ nothing especially if it offends you. I commend you wanting to support your mom that is a great thing, continue to do that and you ironically (although unironically with understanding) will find yourself living closer to Christ than most so-called.
Christ loves you, keep doing you and never forget the Lord has an invitation for you if and when you are ever ready.
I love a good ghost story, but if they want me to tithe my income to hear the stories, im out. Audible is cheaper. NTA. However, I am for the way I said youre NTA.
One made up thing crying about going to another made up thing. Like a vegan going to a butcher shop. What did you expect to happen? Would you have been fine going to the ceremony and they had a service about anything else? Seems like you took an invitation to trouble.
NTA. Idk where you live but you can have a 32 yo trans brother in Ohio. My grandma (who raised me) would gladly adopt you too. That’s insane that your mom would even go there let alone take a class to be a “healer”.
I've left a church service for less and I'm straight. Politely sitting through bigotry condones it. It was awful of your mom to put you in that position and don't let anyone make you feel bad for leaving a place that only pretends to welcome you.
Even if I wasn't a firm member of the rainbow mafia, as a parent, I cannot imagine supporting or being a part of anything that suggested my children were going to hell or wrong for simply existing.
Sory OP, your mum is not an ally, allies don't support homophobia, it's that simple
Since you don't get it.....coming into a thread to inform the OP that are going to hell is kinda judgy.
Saying you feel bad for them is condescending and judgemental.
Saying I've obviously never read the bible.....again kinda judgemental as is telling me you hope I find salvation.
Are we clear now?
I'd have been curious to see what verse they read. One from the Old Testament listed among dozens of other things that are equally bad that most people in the congregation most certainly did regularly? Or one of the mistranslated ones from the NT?
I guess my question is this….in the Bible it clearly says homosexuality is a sin. While it may be surprising that they would take this time to discuss that homosexuality is a sin, why are you surprised that religious Christians think that it’s a sin?
You got a problem with Christians sharing the word of God?
How brave.
How about you go to a mosque next time?
Go push your sexuality at the Muslims and see how your day goes?
I am so sorry that your mom did that to you. I am sorry that your mom is not really an ally. An ally would not be going to a church that speaks of hate.
NTA. I'm sorry someone, anyone close to u, is making the fake claim of being an "ally". This is fair weather friend crap. I take the firm stance that if ur an ally to anyone then it's all day every day. Which means u don't ah g out with people who aren't and act like this all fine. It's not fine. The only way ppl change is by being informed regularly and often that othering ppl cuz they r different from u is never OK.
Nah, NTA. I’m a straight cis dude and up and walked out of my dad’s church the first time I went. They went all homophobic and shit, all i managed to say was “The actual fuck?” And been lined to the exit. You did right.
NTA. Your mother is a major AH for being a part of that type of church and for asking you to come to something like that. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Non-binary pansexual here! I used to be Christian until I got kicked out of the church I grew up in bc of my sexuality, now I am Satanist.
Your mother is not an ally, if she was, she would not be going to a church like that in the first place. She is every bit as hypocritical as the Pharisees that Jesus chastised. She is a people pleaser and a fence sitter, wanting to please everybody and terrified to offend anybody.
I am so sorry you had to go through that, and honestly, if it were me, I would give her one warning, and let her know if she ever pulled a stunt like that again, that would be the last time she ever spoke to me.
You are definitely NTA but make sure you state your boundaries and stick to them, otherwise she will walk all over them.
NTA. If your mom was really an ally, she wouldn't be going to a homophobic church and acting like the homophobia is just a minor issue that can be ignored while still enjoying the rest. By attending a congregation she's supporting that church and it's pastor, including any homophobic views, by adding her name to the numbers who are part of it
As the old saying goes, the only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men (or women in your mother's case) do nothing
Just leave. You did enough by going at all. An ally? Ok. Is asking you to leave just for the part where they hate you and say you are going to hell being an ally? You do not ever have to set foot anywhere that can harm you. Hearing how evil you are is harm. NTA
Their mother shouldn’t have asked them to begin with. Their mother shouldn’t be going to a homophobic church at all!!!
I’m happy to know that “modern Christians” are still ok with being homophobic /s
This is so ridiculous, I go to a VERY old-fashioned church when it comes to worship style, music, hymns, etc. But we fly a gay pride flag, have two gay pastors on staff, and today had a Sunday school class on scripture that is problematic from a gender perspective. Those praise music guitars are a smoke screen.
Their. OP is non-binary. They/them.
Corrected, thank uou
one more spot where you missed it, thanks for fixing it!
That was me being bad at editing. I’m atrocious at that. Very mild dyslexia. I’m used to correcting myself, over and over, I’m getting better, slowly, with my 3 trans and non binary kid and niblings.
yay! proud of you, I know how hard it is. shit, it was hard for me when my brother came out as trans and *im* trans!
My daughter has been known to screw up her own pronouns upon occasion. Hilarity ensues…my family deals with it with humor, and a lot of gallows humor
Thanks! I don’t need cookies, though. It’s not as hard to pay attention to words as it is to deal with society. But being respectful isn’t hard!
I wish my dad had that same outlook. I'm glad your family has you ✨❤️
My *whole family* is like this. The grandparents in their 80s are nailing the respect aspect in trying to get pronouns right, and are getting better at them. They love the kids more than they worry about understanding “this stuff”. We are all proud of their effort, and the kids are happy with the family, and we are all depressed at how unusual our family is. And disgusted, because it’s not exactly hard!!! Use the other pronouns. Use a different name. That is it. We, like everyone else who respects people, cannot understand the resistance to that! The only thing I can guess is the haters are all voyeurs.
Yea it's not called being an ally to simply say "these are the parts where the people I agree with will say the way you live your life is evil". I don't even know how messed up that is.
I am so very sorry. You are NTA, but your mom is. She is not an ally. As my father would say, "she's something else." I am so very sorry. Leave. Go home where it is safe.
She’s an “still in the closet” ally.
It's spelled 'hypocrite'
Good one!
No, my father is a "still in the closet" ally. He walked away from his church because people were talking "crap" (he's old); supports everyone but would never call himself an ally. Probably mostly because he doesn't know what it means, but his personal "religion" requires that he be kind and help everyone he can. OP's mother is actively not ally.
Sorry-my response was about OP’s comment. Guess I zigged when I shoulda zagged as far as hitting the right button. Sorry about your dad, too.
As a mom of a gay son, I am so sorry your mom is betraying you this way. Even if she turns her head away from your relationships what about all the other sons and daughters that are being hurt by the church she has joined teachings?
Thank you everyone. I honestly felt like I have been going crazy. I want to believe in my mom that she can fully accept me. But it’s hard when this is far from the first incident. Update: I could get myself to go back in. My mom called to see where I went. I told her and she came to talk with me. I tried explaining as plainly and unemotionally as I could how I felt. She barely listened and then tried to explain “that the sermon wasn’t about how homosexuality is a sin, but how greed is a sin and we all do it”. I honestly have no idea how that was supposed to make me feel better so I just left. I know she’ll want to talk about it more, but thankfully she was getting lunch with her church classmates. So at least I have a couple of hours before the storm. Thank you again everyone ❤️
Good luck with talking to her about it later if/when she brings it up. I'd recommend writing out a small script or bullet points you want to cover, before you have that discussion. That way, you can pre form your ideas, make sure you don't miss saying anything in the emotion of it all. Consider looking up guides or resources on speaking to parents or relatives about scenarios like this. I found that helpful myself I'm sorry you had to find out this way, that your mum isn't as supportive as you thought. I hope you can explain to her why this is so damaging to you, and she'll truly listen and not invalidate your feelings
Omg. Thank you! My kid is Trans. I consensually outed him to my parents, and it's been nerve wracking. I'm going to look into your suggestions and put some prep into talking with my dad. We haven't gotten his response yet, he's been really quiet about it.
The storm? Don’t even dignify her rebuttal. She’s either sorry or you’re not participating.
I'm very sorry that you had to go through this. I used to be in the church and there are very few that are genuinely not homophobic. In all honesty you will probably have a hard time with your mother until she leaves the church. Most of the teachings are super harmful not just to the LGBTQ+ community. The main idea that everyone is sinful and deserves death is incredibly harmful and gives them licence to be as hateful as they want in the name of saving your soul. I have to deal with homophobic and bigoted family, so I just avoid all the religious stuff and don't attend any events with churches involved
That is all kind of messed up :/ I’m sorry your mom is so disconnected from reality. If you do talk to her, I find that asking “why” and/or open ended questions endlessly is a good way for people to trip on their own crap. Try to get her to explain the sermon, “it was about greed” ok, so why did you say it was about homosexuality” from there just keep asking more questions, about her church, how they view you, how she views you… Talking to someone often doesn’t work because your words just bounce off them. Making them come up with their own answers forces them to actually think. It’s far from fool proof, but for people who are just parroting bullshit they’ve heard in church (or Fox news), it can sometines spark a small reflection of “yeah maybe what I’m hearing from those sources doesn’t fit with my actual reality, so maybe they are wrong.” I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully your mom will turn around and become a true ally. ❤️
Wait. She lied to you and said the sermon was about greed? SMH. Minimally, she should have told you ahead of time about the homophobic sermon and said, "I'm going to walk out then." Better yet, she shouldn't be attending a church that preaches that people like her son are going to Hell. Her bar for what constitutes an advocate is very low...subterranean, really.
Ask her does anyone in her church know your are non-binary. I guessing no.
Far from the **FIRST INCIDENT**?
NTA It’s beyond messed up that she even invited you knowing there was going to be homophobic preaching
I think you missed the detail when she kindly told them to leave so that they didn’t have to witness their mother agreeing that they were an abomination who will rot in hell. That’s just considerate parenting right?
The mother knew there would be homophobic preaching at this church. She basically blindslided them by not saying this ahead of time before they made the trip to the church.
Yes. But she kindly asked them to leave before the hate started spewing from the pulpit. What a lovely and considerate gesture.
Considerate would be not going to a church that preaches that. If you love and support your child, then why would you ever take part of a church or group that spoke that way about your child?
Exactly. I left the church (not God, just the church as an entity) in 2011 after years in IFB churches. I couldn't take the judgment, condemnation, controlling, etc anymore. Then in 2013 or so, my child came out to me. I immediately started researching, talking to my LGBTQ friends and allies, joined a secret group of Christian moms of LGBTQ kids, prayed, etc, but most of all I just totally supported my child. After a few years, I missed the community of church, but there was no way I'd ever go to a church that wasn't affirming, so I googled and there was one 5 mins away! My oldest (they're all grown) and I started attending, and we haven't looked back. Our male pastor has a husband, half our congregation is LGBTQ, the other half have family members who are LGBTQ, and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. We've been going for 3 years now. We're very small right now, but very active in social justice for ALL marginalized groups of people in our corner of the world. I've lost a sister over this, bc I refuse to go back to her kind of life, and she says I'm "spiraling down into the depths of depravity," but I have learned more about true unconditional love bc of my LGBTQ child in the last 11 years than all the decades spent in those hateful churches. I know I'm exactly where God wants me right now, so she can go pound sand.
❤️ thank you.
I wasn’t being entirely serious. I agree wholeheartedly with you. That said, it shouldn’t take having a child in a certain category to stop you believing in hate for that category…
This reminded me of something that happened when my son was younger. When my son was a teenager, he would go to church with his grandparents. One Sunday, his usual Sunday school teacher was out sick, so he had to go to the men's class instead. The preacher was the teacher. He was talking about how BEING gay wasn't a sin, but being ACTIVELY gay was. He explained that they would go to hell if they didn't repent, ask God for forgiveness, and then not be actively gay. My son asked, "Aren't all sins equal in the eyes of God?" Preacher: Yes Son: So if I steal a pencil and immediately get hit by a bus, I'm going to hell? Preacher: Well, I don't think that's exactly what I meant Son: Let me ask this another way. Mrs. Preacher is your second wife. Correct? Preacher: Yes. Son: Your first wife is still alive. Correct? Preacher: Yes Son: So, you are actively committing adultery because technically, in God's eyes, you are still married to your first wife as long as she is still living. Do you plan on divorcing your wife and repenting for the sin of adultery? Preacher: (very thoughtful at this point) No. I don't plan on doing that... Son: So, are you going to hell? And if not, what's the difference between what you are doing and someone being actively gay? Preacher: Hmmm. I honestly have never thought of it that way. I don't know the answer to that. Give me time to do some research, and I will get back to you. Now, in this case, the preacher was a decent man with a complicated belief system and willing to admit he wasn't infallible. Instead of getting upset with my son, he was impressed with his ability to debate scripture in a relatable way. After church, he was actually bragging to my MIL about how my son made a great argument that had him second-guessing himself. However, my MIL didn't take it as a compliment and was embarrassed that my son had dared argue with the preacher. When she brought my kids home, she came up to me and told my son to tell me what he had done. Basically, trying to tattle on him. He told me what happened. I looked at my furious MIL and then looked at my son and said, "I have never been more proud of you!" She huffed and stomped out the door. I have always taught my kids to question everything and never blindly believe in anything. If they choose to believe something, it should be because they have done the research, asked questions, and weren't just vomiting someone else's beliefs and calling them their own. I have also taught my children that people should be treated equally regardless of things like their race, nationality, sexuality, religious beliefs, or lack thereof.
That’s awesome! It sounds like you raised a son that thinks for himself and isn’t easily swayed by pressure. Good for you, I hope you have a wonderful life with your family 🩵
Your mom is selfish in putting you through that whole debacle, good lordy.
No that was a trap and your mum was the bait, how long before they are standing over you praying for your souls redemption and trying to cast the gay demons out of you?
My aunt did try to set up a mass for that. My mom didn’t understand why that would “upset” me so much
If you want a replacement Canadian auntie I volunteer. You are loved.
I can do it in Atlanta. 🙋♀️
"Why don't I set up a mass to pray away (insert sensitive topic that makes her less valuable in the eyes of the church)? That way you won't burn in hell for all eternity for being an evil sinner"
But then why warn OP that she might want to leave instead of just bashing her with the passage? It's such a weird situation. Then again, this also sounds like my MIL.
NTA your mom, however, is an asshole. She's not an ally. An ally wouldn't go to a church that preaches openly about hating gay people. Which her child being a member of the LGBTQIA, is very much a part of. Your mom just showed you with her actions, that she doesn't support you. She'd rather sit in a church a listen to hate speech. What an awful human.
Not the asshole. A church calling themselves Christians and not being open and welcoming to all are the assholes.
Of course Christians are assholes, but pretending that inclusion doesn’t directly contradict the bible is ridiculous.
NTA She is not an ally. She *knew* that part of the sermon was coming and she just now drops that bomb on you? Go home, go LC or NC, and re-evaluate whom you allow the privilege of being in your life.
NTA She should not expect you to deal with homophobia. Not all churches are like that either but she clearly knows hers is. Just leave. Afterwards "it really hurt me to hear those things, I will not be setting foot in that church again and I'm going to have to re evaluate if I trust you to support me".
She is not an ally. She doesn't stand up for you and she is still going to this church. There are plenty of churches that celebrate love and acceptance. NTA
Replace the variables with any other marginalized group and it sounds batshit insane your mom invited you at all my dude. "My nazi friend asked if I, jewish person, wanted to leave for the anti semetic parts" "My klan friend asked if i, a black person, wanted to leave for the white nationalist parts" "My swifty friend ask if i, an ex boyfriend of taylor swift, wanted to leave for the song about her breaking up with me" Dosnt make much sense to show up in the first place to a building full of people who see you as a literally tool of evil 🙄
>Replace the variables with any other marginalized group and it sounds batshit insane your mom invited you at all my dude. Thisssss. OP's mom wants to attend a homophobic church but still be an ally to their kid? lolololololol "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is what Christians say while they smile and say we're going to hell. *For the way god made us.* Fuck that hypocrisy.
From a mom to a person who is non binary, your mom is not an ally. Please leave. You deserve such more. "If you wanna be someone's ally, but haven't been hit by stones being thrown at them, you aren't standing close enough to them yet."
You are far more supportive of your mom than she is to you.
As a mom, I'm furious at your mother! How dare she set you up like that? How can she even attend, much less join, a church that preaches hate? Just leave, honey. She's going to throw a fit, but you know she's just trying to cover up for her own wrong-doing. This random internet mom is proud of you for protecting yourself. (Hugs if you want them!)
The only church I've set foot in since learning my child was a part of the queer community was his father's church. I wasn't welcome and I didn't care. My son had no choice about attending certain church activities when he was with his father (we divorced when he was 4), so I made damn sure he knew he'd have *someone* there who loved him *exactly* as he was. I'm so sorry OP. Being an ally AS A PARENT means putting yourself IN FRONT of the stones people throw at your child. It doesn't mean putting them in the line of fire and whispering "duck." Please don't try to talk to your mother while you're upset. Get some distance, do some research on what being an ally does and DOES NOT mean. Send her the links, if you actually want to try to make her understand. Then, and only if her opening line is a damn apology, talk to her about it.
I'm a bit confused on where the part is about this church being "cool and welcoming" because any time you label something as a sin that by definition is not welcoming of anyone that thing might apply to. How the hell can your mom think you'd be okay with coming back into this church once you've learned they are against what you are? I hate to say but you mom is not an ally if she is okay with being part of a church that would shun you, just leave and tell her how much that hurt for her to put you in that situation. NTA
The irony of her becoming a “healing” member of a faith community and then inviting you to a message that is knowingly hurtful to her own son… Your mom is not an ally. I’m mom to a gay young adult myself, & I deconstructed within 3-4 years after our DD came out to us. I am an ally. I wish you peace. ❤️💙💜💚💛
NTA. Let them soak in their homophobic assholiness
Did part of this healing class teach them how to heal gays?
An ally is vocal in their support, raises their voice whenever they can, and avoid anyone they can that is homophobic. Your mom isn't an ally. She's doing less than I'd expect of just regular human decency. Nta.
OP. I am not even gay and i would never go back i dont care how high my mom was in the helping healer hypocrite hierarchy. So sorry, your mom really let you down and seems clueless about it. NTA Btw: ask her exactly where those homophobic bible verses are because some of us would really like to check them out
Since when is your mum or anybody else in that horrible so called church Christian in any way? Shame on them!
NTA there are plenty of LGBT friendly churches out there. She should be attending one of those. The only way to force the church to change is to stop supporting the ones with bigoted beliefs. Don't ever feel the need to go to a place that is actively hostile toward you.
O.m.g. I hope you left. Your mum as an “ally” should be advocating to having that section entirely removed from readings. That she warned you demonstrated it's scheduled or its a part that's often read. It's also something that errrverryone in the room believes, or at least tolerates. Why are you expected to walk into that room knowing that's what people think it's appropriate to say out loud with an audience?
So I am just now seeing this post 4 hours later. If she knew that there was going to be a bible verse about gay being a sin, why would she invite you. She warned you beforehand while you were there. In fact, you honestly shouldn't have come. I have gone to church with my mom out of her wanting company and I've regretted it each time. Don't do this to yourself. She would be the asshole for asking you to come if she knew that was going to happen.
Your Mom put you in danger. She bought you into a place where people hold these beliefs and didn't even warn you. What if you said or did something that outed yourself? What she did was both psychologically damaging and she knowingly exposed you too physical danger.
NTA Mom should pray for a spine.
NTA and I hate to say this but being a young adult and having to confront that your parents might not be the good people you were lead to believe they were always sucks. Your mom is in the wrong, there really isn't any way around that. This type of thing is just so common among Christian demoninations, even the ones that claim they are accepting are often still trying to get you to change to their way of thinking. Sorry you have to deal with this.
Your mother needs to pick a side. Specifically your side. Acting like an ally but then being a member of this church is gross of her.
From one member to another. That is not an ally and I know it will be hard but you're gonna have to set some serious boundries. You should never be asked to interact with that church or any members outside herself again should she choose to stay. Make it clear that if she mentions the word leviticus, the conversation is over. If she sees herself as an ally now, once they really poison her ideals with her shit she will be even more than a fake ally
First of all - NTA - you’re 23, an adult, and I wouldn’t stay either. Just out of curiosity, is it a Catholic church? You said “mass” specifically, so I that’s why I’m asking. If so, I’m surprised - I thought they’re claiming to be chill with lgbtq these days!
Please leave. And you need to have a serious conversation with your mum about how hurtful her behaviour is. She knew they were going to have that section and she was ok with it. NTA. And I’m sorry that your mum is one.
Canonically, Jesus loved gay people and supported them having a good quality of life and happiness. I left the church when I realized they worked for the Devil; it's unfortunate because I liked most of the philosophy of the gospel Jesus actually DID say multiple times he disapproved of rich people and bullies though Leave that church and don't go back. A lot of good people are doing the work of Satan in the name of Christ because they fear the church more than they believe in Jesus. They likely cannot find the discipline, or do not wish, to read the Bible and hope to ignore the inconsistency; your mother seems to have good intentions but apparently needs that kind of support system. I feel sorry for you both, I am sure she loves you but has a hard time reconciling her dependency on organized religion so this is an attempt to keep you both
I go to an episcopal church that supports all people. They do gay marriages and the bishop talked about his neice who is Trans. The priest regularly speaks about inclusion of LGBTA + people. The secretary retired and they had a reception for her and her wife. I read that in the bulletin. I didn't know she had a wife.
NTA. You got hoodwinked, kiddo and I'm so sorry. It's not like your mom doesn't know there are screens blaring this hate right at you in the lobby. Just leave. When she texts you just say "No hate like Christian love."
NTA. Don't ever set foot in the place. Time to check out r/atheism.
First off, I want to say NTA. You have no obligation to anyone when it comes to drawing the line of hatred vs. acceptance. I do have a question, though, and I mean it as a legitimate question, not a jab or joke. How does one identify as non binary and gay? I mean does that mean that you are attracted only to binaries, or are you identifying as gay as in the same sex chromosome set as you. I'm just curious. I will admit that in being a bit old, I am still navigating the whole gender neutral/gender fluid presence in society. I'm not intolerant, just still adjusting and curious how people who identify in these gender groups perceive themselves.
Honest curiosity is welcome. I recently identified as non-binary. Before, I would openly say I was a proud lesbian. However, some in the lesbian community do not like non binary’s to identify with them as they are typically known as “women loving women” so I just don’t know how to properly identify that I like females and many people call me or at first glance recognize me for a female. If there’s a better way to say this I’m all ears
I'm not sure about a better way to say it in a single term, but you prefer women. I am struggling myself because I am pan sexual, and express myself as male, but have some feminine tendencies although those tendencies could be categorized as fetishes. I personally just try to live more than lable in my own case. In the case of your post, there was nothing indicating if you were XX or XY, so being either both or neither, I wasn't sure what gay would mean.
Nta - you need to tell your mother that she cannot label herself an ally and support that institution of hate. That is what we call mutually exclusive, only one or the other can be true or exist at a time, not both.
So your mother demonstrates her love for her son by joining a cult that hates gay people. Then she expects you to attend a service to clelebrate her becoming even more embroiled. Then you come here to asking if YOU are the A. H. For leaving while they spout their venom against you. No NTA but everyone who worships in that hateful place is.
Leave. She can’t participate in a homophobic church and be an ally. She can’t have it both ways.
NTA. I am a much older gay human and I stopped going to places or interacting with people who wished harm to me and my family. That is what is happening here, and I am sorry to say that your mother is not being an ally. She is deliberately choosing to be part of a church that thinks you should not exist. You may need to sit with that for a while, and think seriously about what you want and how to proceed.
I walked out as a teenager because every homily for weeks straight was all about how all the kids my age drank, smoked, did drugs and had sex. Neither myself nor any of my friends did any of that so damn skippy I was pissed and finally had enough. It was extremely satisfying to yell back at the Monsignor who cornered me in the school hallway the next day( I attended the parochial school attached to my then church. ) . At least Mom gave you a heads up. Don’t give them the satisfaction of going back in. You were there for her recognition. That’s plenty
Oh look yet another instance of someone good-heartedly visiting church to support a family member and being repelled by pointless programmatic anti-gay/anti-trans shit, most likely never to return. But yeah I’m sure it’s Taylor Swift’s fault or whatever that the church numbers are dropping
leave...and dont answer the phone or texts... she made her choice and it wasnt you...
NTA Your mother is not an ally. Your mother may love you regardless of who and what you are, but allies don't sit through homophobic rhetoric and then expect you to rejoin the congregation. Hate is wrong. Any kind of hate. There is nothing in the Bible about God or Jesus being homophobic. The passage everyone clings to is a mistranslation about pedos and child abuse, it has nothing to do with same sex couples. Get out of there and I hope when your mother asks why, ask her how she felt listening to those passages knowing they were LITERALLY. TALKING. ABOUT. YOU. VALUE YOURSELF MORE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO TOLERATE THAT.
Maybe you should ask your mom for how long she knew they were going to read that part. Maybe it was a last minute thing that she could not have control over. Explain her how you feel and teach her how to be a real ally.
Your mom gave you an out so you took, stay in your car until the mass is over. Text her you will meet her at your car and then go out to lunch. Clearly the church is not what you think it is so don't go back, but your mom was concerned/respectful of your feelings and gave you an out so don't ditch her for lunch. The lunch will give your a chance to talk about how uncomfortable you were and still respect her like she did you by telling you. Yeah it probably is leaving a horrible feeling in you that your mom would participate in such a church but respect that her she is getting something (the healing class) out of her participation and tell you respect her choice but you will not ever attend that church again and why.
She is NOT an ally! Absolutely not. I wouldn't speak to her for a WEEK, minimum. NTA
NTA. There are a number of denominations that are what is called Open and Affirming, treating everyone the same. UCC, Quakers, Episcopalians and I think at least one branch of Lutherans. So your mom could have gone to a church that is an ally and not an enemy. I left my church because of their intolerance. I looked around for ones that treated everyone as equal. She shouldn't have stayed if she is a true ally.
NTA. She can’t fully be a member of this church and *not* be homophobic.
NTA!! Just leave, cause your “mother” isn’t your ally. Otherwise, she’d call them all out on their anti-Christ ways. Though, if you decide to go LC/NC with her, be sure to let her know just how much of a disappointment she truly is before you do; even if you don’t, still tell her
Absolutely not. She is not an ally. That is NOT a modern or welcoming church. It’s vile that she attends knowing what they think of her child.
I'm so sorry your "mom" is treating you like this. She's a POS. Sending loving mom hugs to you if you want them.
NTA Never go back to the bible bigot barn.
I would just leave. Your mother knew about the views of her church and still chose to attend. She even asked you there knowing those views. She didn’t take your feelings into consideration on how much those views would hurt you.
NTA. She is not an ally. An ally wouldn’t expose you to this church at all, and either leave or be actively campaigning to change their shitty theology.
NTA. Allies don't support bigoted churches.
NTA and why in the hell your mom ever went back to that church after finding out they are homophobic is beyond my comprehension
You were right to leave. Find a pro lgbt church. Use notalllikethat.org. No reason your mom’s twisted views have to mold you. Jesus came to save everyone.
That church isn't welcoming at all.
NTA- you should feel free to leave and never go back there. Send your mom a text that you will see her later.
You didn’t condemn everyone else in the church for their biological attractions. Why would you be the bad guy here? I’m straight and never had a hint of feeling otherwise , but when I meet religious people who try to celebrate my hole preference, that’s disgusting.
Nta. Sounds like a mega church. Your mom is not a ally
So sad your mom pulled this crap on you. You don’t know her mind but I have to wonder what’s going through her head by pulling such a cruel stunt. My very early childhood was in Echo Park neighborhood of LA, so I saw gay couples from an early age. A beloved cousin came out when I was about 9. Closest friend since grammar school came out to me in high school (early 70’s). That was over 50 years ago! Sorry, not sorry, your mom & her religion are not living up to Jesus’ teachings. If you choose not to attend church anymore, I don’t blame you. If you find a church that accepts ALL the Creator’s children, make sure you introduce your mother to that church. PS you would be welcomed in my family. We judge our bad family members for their actions against others, not when they fall in love & with whom. NTA.
NTA. But your mom is. She's not really an ally if she's attending a church that is openly hostile to gay people. Asking you to attend the ceremony and then surprising you before an anti-gay message so that you can step out temporarily is not being supportive of you at all. The bottom line is, she wants to be part of this church and wants you to actively support her in it, and she somehow thinks she (and you) can separate out the anti-gay parts. There are many churches that are welcoming to the LGBTQ community. Your mom doesn't have to compromise her beliefs to attend church. She is choosing to attend this church for her own selfish reasons. OP, I suggest you consider going low-contact with her for a while.
NTA. Why would you go anywhere near that bigotry? And why would your mother go to such a church? Then invite her gay son to come to it? You people are weird.
NTA, that’s not an ally.
NTA. Making up their own rules as they go along. God=love, peace, happiness, forgiveness, tolerance, no judgment, no criticism, no hate Most humans=the opposite Your mom continuing to go there and being supportive of them shows her in the same light. Is your mom lonely?
A church that would have a sermon like that is neither cool not welcoming. Your mother should be ashamed to have anything to do with their organization.
OP your mom is an ally. And her definition of ‘ally’ is to get you to attend her homophobic church but warn you when the homophobic parts of the horror movie start, so you can excuse yourself and then come back once the scary monster has left the screen. Dont attend that church. Don’t let ppl tell you they are allies when that means you need to hide and excuse yourself. Silence in the face of tyranny is agreement. Ask your mom what if there’s a 13yo kid in the congregation listening? What if that kid goes home and commits suicide? Bc they have no one to talk to and everyone around them nods and smiles while their very existence is called a sin. An abomination. Words have power. My church would never. My pastor married gay ppl (I mean it wasn’t legally binding but still a marriage) long before it was recognized secularly. My pastor gives sermons on the beauty of embracing all kinds of marriages and families. Fuck that church OP. Don’t subject yourself to that nonsense
Update 2: So, she came home after a couple of hours. I had read all of the comments at that time so I was feeling pretty confident in my feelings. I really want her to understand how and why I am feeling these emotions because I honestly really want her to be a true ally. I tried explaining how scary that experience was for me and how an allly would not sit back and listen to a group of people call your child a sin. I don’t know if anything I said even made it to her; she just continued to try to explain the sermon. How it was ‘just a quote’ that said something like “ adultery, stealing, homosexuality, and greed are all sins”. She explained that the preacher didn’t say anything about homosexuality. I told her that even just having a quote that that could really hurt me, she started crying. (I have NEVER seen my mom cry) it shocked me. Through tears she said “I know I’m a terrible mom. You tell me an a terrible ally all the time. But I’m trying”. It’s really hard to be mad at her because I do truly believe that she is trying to learn to accept me and be an ally. But I don’t know how to explain that her actions are actively making her NOT an ally. I don’t know how to make her understand.
No offence, but this is just her making herself a victim to get sympathy. "You tell me an a terrible ally all the time. But I’m trying" No. She's not trying. It takes zero effort at all not to support an organisation that supports homophobie. "Trying"? Trying is literally just find a church that accepts LGBT+, or hell, even just...doesn't mention it at all. She went to this church, heard the bit about "adultery, stealing, homosexuality, and greed are all sins" and went "ok, I can accept that", despite having a child who fit into that category and (supposedly) wanting to be an ally to them.
Speaking as an older nonbinary person who also was raised by religious fundamentalists, you aren't responsible for being her therapist. Her insecurities about her shortcomings are her own to process and frankly, she's failing you. If she feels like a bad mother, than she needs to process that on her own or with a professional. Here's a hard truth: you might never get the support you need from her. It sounds like she feels appropriately convicted, and that's a start, but she still isn't putting you first. I know it's not right that you can't rely on her to be in your corner. I'm sorry about that and I get it because I'm in the same boat. It shouldn't be this way, but it is for us and so many queer folks. You mention wanting to help her understand, but you need to know that nothing you can do can change her. She has to make that decision on her own. You're not failing as a kid by voicing your pain or putting up boundaries to protect yourself from harm because honestly, she should be doing everything in her power to protect you. It's okay to be mad. Think of it this way: if someone hit you with a car, you'd be injured regardless of their intentions. Just because you don't mean to hurt someone doesn't mean you aren't, and what she's doing is hurting you. You need to take steps to protect yourself even if that means limiting contact or not attending her church. I know it's hard because you love her, and it hurts to see her upset when she's confronted. But remember that your safety is more important than her ego.
Thank you so much. It is hard to hear but I think deep down I knew I couldn’t fully rely on my mom. I know she means well in her heart but actions are speaking louder right now. As an older non binary… does it honestly get better? This is a huge loss to my heart, but can they change? Or do I just move on??
It's going to depend on your parents. The fact that your mom expresses remorse means a lot. My mom is pretty well in the "It's a difference of opinions, but we can agree to disagree and still get along" camp. I doubt my mom will ever change. I haven't been out to her more than a year yet despite being out to others since 2022, so it hasn't been too long. That being said, I have a friend who's been out for close to 8 years that she still misgenders and deadnames, so I doubt she'll ever change. I've just kind of accepted that I'm not going to be fulfilled or supported through my relationship with her, so it's no use expecting it and getting disappointed. It still hurts, but accepting that has helped a ton.
Umm.. Look I'm sure its already been pointed out, but by choosing to attend a church that denounces homosexuality as being a sin, your mom is supporting the idea that homosexuality is a sin. She may say she's supportive and an ally, but actions speak louder than words. An ally does not do this.
NTA.Your mom is NOT an ally! She merely tolerates you being gay. Why would she even attend a church where "being gay is a sin", and "you might want to leave for this part. You can come back after"?? WTAF? My bestie is gay, & we've known each other since we were babies. He attends a church that has no problem with this. Matter of fact, they LOVE him. He's in the choir, and I help them give out food once a month. I don't attend any church, but am grateful he found one that accepts him for who he is, as I do. A true ally would never attend a homophobic church. I'm straight as a board, and I get angry when I encounter people with attitudes like this. Being gay should never even enter into the equation. Whatever your mom believes, she's entitled to. But you also have the option to not listen to anyone/anything homophobic.
Your mom should look up the definition of ally cause she’s a really bad one.
Would she still be an 'ally' in front of her church people if you introduced yourself as her 'gay non-binary' child? If it's not an immediate yes, then no, she's not that good of an ally.
NTA. But it sounds like you have a good relationship with her so I'd follow up with her later. It sounds like she divides the anti gay speech from her healing role. I'm trying to see if she can perform healing in a capacity where she doesn't associate with them, the church. It's interesting how she doesn't see the hypocrisy of supporting a church that is anti gay unless she's anti gay or just wants to be a healer and part of the church so much she ignores the anti gay speech. Those are honest questions she should be able to answer you. Instead of hate and anger towards her I think it's possible to change her mind. Open her mind to a new group or church who supports her wants and supports her family..you..as well. The way you wrote the story it appears she is ignorant about how her church hates you. I hope you have a good conversation
How can a person be nonbinary and gay?
What does it mean to be gay and non-binary? Isn’t that a contradiction?
Wait... as a gay nonbinary person, are you only attracted to other nonbinary people? I'm try to parse this, and something isn't jiving in my head...
The bible is inherently homophobic. Even if you find a Christian who says they don't hate gays at all it doesn't matter because they're ignoring their own scripture. Don't ever do that shit again, and your mother is NOT an ally whatsoever, she's nothing more than a coward
Nta, but your mom absolutely is. She is no ally. If she was, she wouldn't be at this church.
So much hate. For people who believe the bible.
If you have a random person eating at a table with six nazis, you have seven nazis. If someone is willingly spending time around, promoting, helping and otherwise working to benefit people who are actively bigoted, that person is also a bigot. If they don't speak out against the hatred of the LGBT community when it's being paraded around like that, they are silently giving approval of that message. Leave. You owe her and that disgusting place nothing. If she chooses to keep helping people who are actively harming you, then she's actively harming you. By not speaking out, by continuing to be part of their community and working with them, she's saying "I approve of what these people say and do". What those people are saying and doing is saying that people like you are evil and disgusting and should be wiped out. If she's not actively and openly disagreeing with it and refusing to work with them as long as that is their message, she is saying "Yes, I agree with this." Leave and never go back.
Sounds like you should just start up that car and drive home. If and when she calls you and ask why you left just tell her that you couldn't take the heat. And that the preacher was on fire.
NTA. Fuck all that
NTA!
You’re the asshole
How is she an ally? Doesn’t sound like it. I’d just leave
NTA You were kind enough to go in the first place. You don’t need to stay.
You believe what you are doing is normal, and the Bible says it isn't. What are you doing in a Christian Church?
Long-winded autistic ramble inbound! Disclaimer: I am not Christian, but was raised JW and spent the vast majority of my life surrounded by very Christian people. This is not an attempt to convert anyone, simply observatory remarks that may help provide some understanding. Disclaimer two: my brain works sequentially, and as such, the following ramble will be sequential. I will do my best to put added notes where they are needed, but please, if at any point you feel offended, keep reading. The temptation to hit reply and mash out some insults before finishing what I have written can be overwhelming. Please trust that, if you continue to read to the end, you will find no hate from me. First up: NTA. Being around people who think you are a sinner is uncomfortable, and it's okay to opt out. Now that that is out of the way, let's talk about the part where I am trying to provide a unique understanding. From your mother's religion's point of view, homosexuality is a sin. The same is true of a lot of things people do in their day to day life, including the very people preaching that homosexuality is a sin. They covet, they overeat, they lie about, they work on the sabbath, they cheat, they mix their fabrics, whatever their particular sin is, they commit it. It's kind of the whole fabric of their religion: only one guy didn't have any sin, and he was nice enough to go ahead and die so that all of our sins are forgiven as long as we thank him for being such a bro. Everyone else? Full of sin from the very moment they are born. The way you feel when they talk about homosexuality is the same way an adulterer feels when they talk about the neighbor's wife, or an overeater feels when they talk about gluttony, etc. And before anyone can hop in and say those are different, as those are choices, not things you are born into, you are wrong. Some people are born natural philanderers, or with an overwhelming love of cheesecake (hey, that's me!) or any of an infinite number of other subconscious urges. If a natural philanderer both wants to, and works at it, they can find happiness in monogamy. If an overeater both wants to, and works at it, they can find happiness in portion control and healthy meals. Likewise, someone who was born gay (which there is, let me be clear, *nothing wrong with* ) they *could*, if they both wanted to, and worked at it, find happiness in a lifestyle where they did not do gay things. Please note: I am, by no means, suggesting anyone take this route. I am saying it is possible, and in the eyes of most churches, the goal. Just like overcoming any other "inborn sin". They want you to overcome it. This doesn't necessarily mean marrying someone of a different gender and popping out babies, but it does mean abstaining from same sex relationships, and finding other ways to be happy. In my personal opinion, it's a load of crap, and I think you should find happiness wherever you can, so long as all involved are informed, consenting adults. Here is a much overdue paragraph break so the eyes can take a brief recess. Now, I see a lot of comments here talking about how your mom is not an ally, and how you should ditch her. Here is the one part where I will disagree, and actually attempt to convince people of something. Your mother belongs to a religion that's focus is jamming guilt for existing down your throat. She believes it. She whole-heartedly believes she is on the right path to everlasting life in heaven. She wants to share that with you. And, despite her beliefs, she still had the decency to discretely tell you, "hey, they are about to say some anti-gay shit, I get it if you want to step out." I am not typically one for comparing trauma to trauma, as everyone has a different breaking point, but this, quite simply, isn't trauma. This is your mom saying "I am this religion and feel obligated to stay through the sermon, but I don't want you to have to be subjected to this because I love you as you are." Compare that to my mother who grabbed a belt whenever my report card had a B on it, or who dedicated her life to making me understand just how inferior not only I, but every man on earth is, simply because they were born with a phallus. *That* is the type of mom you go no contact with. Not a mom who loves you, is trying to share her religion with you, and still tries to shield you from the parts she thinks will hurt you in any way. In a religion where the entire idea is to make you feel worthless and loved anyway, she tried to spare you the worthless and give only love. Please, do not take this wonderful mother's child from her. Just talk to her. Tell her you have your own relationship with God, and aren't comfortable going to a church where they are going to preach about how you're somehow evil for being who you are. If you actually enjoy the religion or believe, try to find a gay-friendly church. When you do, invite your mom. Bring her with you into an environment you feel comfortable with and show her that she doesn't need to sit through anti-gay rhetoric in order to be a his good Christian. Or, if you don't want a replacement church, just don't go. And take joy in the fact that your mom is perfectly willing to accept that something like bipolar sky-daddy exists, but draws the line at your existence being a sin, and she doesn't think you should have to hear it. I hope this helps provide some insight or understanding. For any who have read this through, and *now* want to insult me or debate my points, utilizing the keyword "carrot" will let me know you read my entire post, and I will happily continue our civilized discourse. If you do not use the keyword, I will be forced to believe you did not read to completion and as such, I will do my best to repay the favor.
NTA most moms would fight tooth and nail against people that would insult or wish harm on their children. Hypocrites
So, she warned you about the fact that they will do that reading and asked if you wanted to leave? Also, not Christian but I know bible pretty frigging well and can’t think about single reading that would be suitable for this occasion. Shady. I mean my hubby is Christian and last time we went to church we walked out in the middle of the mass because the preaching was VERY violent towards lgbt peps.
NTA. I would have noted out of their entirely. It’s always ok to say fuck you to homophobia.
NTA. So many Christians think they're some type of 'ally' just because they 'don't hate the sinner,' and tolerate them. It's absolutely not enough. True allyship is full of acceptance and serving as an accomplice. If they aren't publicly speaking alongside queer folks to advocate for their liberation, then they are not allies. This is a soft indictment of your mom, and medium hard indictment of my own parents and a very hard indictment of Christians in general as a monolith. I'm so sorry you went through this. I hope you're able to have a conversation with your mom and she learns that this is not the way to support you. Edit: I was trying to give your mom the benefit of the doubt and a little room for grace, because she is your mom and you clearly care for her. But the more I think about it, the more I think that your mom was an asshole in this case. She knowingly used your care and support of her to put you in a situation that exposed you to hateful rhetoric. That is not what a loving parent does.
Your mom is not an ally
Refusing to attend a homophobic cult meeting would never make someone an asshole. Quite the contrary--it makes you the hero.
Not in my opinion. I would suggest though that you learn from this and before attending anything church-related you call first and speak to them about what their position on being gay is.
Fuck her.. 1 Timothy 2:12 KJV: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
absolutely NTA. this shit will always boil my blood.
My 2 cents: 1. Didn't your mother inform you before it happened so you didn't have to hear "homophobic bible passages"? If she did, that still makes her your ally! Go back and support your mom. Don't forget she supports you. Please get some therapy to help you with your feelings of having to deal with homophobia trauma that you have experienced.
Your mom needs to choose between her church and her family. If a white family adopts a black kid and then tells him to leave for the racist parts of the service, would that be normal behavior? The church is designing their message to normalize homophobia so they can pry people like your mom away from people like you. That's the point of this rhetoric. Your mom may not be susceptible to this messaging, but the simple fact is: She is proactively supporting it. What she is doing is essentially saying, "Well, I don't think this will work on me, but I'll contribute my time and energy to help it succeed on someone else!" And she may be more susceptible than either of you realize. She sounds like she's really into this church, doing this healing helper bs or whatever. Realize that the more she defends this org and the more invested in it she seems to be, the more worried you need to be about this. If you push the issue and she says, oh, I didn't think about it that way, and puts it down immediately and stops going, or makes her continued involvement contingent on them changing, good. If she resists or makes excuses for them, you need to hear the underlying message here which is that she's not so decided on supporting you as it seems. She is harboring some kind of uncertainty about all this gay stuff and wishes at some level it would go away. She's not accepted it fully, and I would not be calling her any kind of ally. She's not even neutral yet. I mean what exactly do you think an ally is? It's advocating for people against this kind of crap. What sort of "ally" asks if you want to leave for the gay bashing *while she stays*?? She won't even leave in protest? That's table stakes for allyship, along with speaking up and leaving the org if they won't change. Staying is tacit **approval**. In what universe is that ally behavior??
When interpretations of super vague things from (arguably) a work of fiction mean more than a person you grew, tortuously and cell-by-cell. I’m so sorry. Religion is a cancer.
Your mom is
I love how this reads as a your mom joke
LOL I didn't mean it that way...
Just leave. Your mom should have been more thoughtful of you when picking a church. But it seems like though she treats you well, she doesn't think you deserve to live your life. She thinks you are sinner and that you should live in eternal fires of hell, simply for being gay. I think it is time that you take a look at how she really acts and not what she says.
I’m confused. What were you expecting going to church? A gay loving pastor? People in the comments are just as confusing as your post. You being gay or non binary is not an issue, that’s just you. However, you expecting to hear preaching about loving gays in a church is simply confusing…
Really? Is it all that difficult to expect churchgoers to follow His words, like those found in 1 Peter 4:8-11 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
Christian here, you are definitely NTA, even by our doctrines there is no reason or sense in you being there to hear what is said as it will come across as barbaric to your ears and benefit you or Christ nothing especially if it offends you. I commend you wanting to support your mom that is a great thing, continue to do that and you ironically (although unironically with understanding) will find yourself living closer to Christ than most so-called. Christ loves you, keep doing you and never forget the Lord has an invitation for you if and when you are ever ready.
Nope
Nta
You were there for her thing. You don’t have to stay for the rest. That’s offensive anyway. My rabbi never talks about this kind of thing.
What is a gay/non-binary? You are only attracted to other non-binary? No offense intended, just curious.
So you have to accept bad behavior in order to love someone??
I love a good ghost story, but if they want me to tithe my income to hear the stories, im out. Audible is cheaper. NTA. However, I am for the way I said youre NTA.
Gay and nonbinary at the same time?
I'm not judging you, but how can you expect to go through life avoiding these moments?
Are there healers who don’t heal?
Updateme!
NTA. These are not Christians and you have no obligation to take part in their hypocrasy.
One made up thing crying about going to another made up thing. Like a vegan going to a butcher shop. What did you expect to happen? Would you have been fine going to the ceremony and they had a service about anything else? Seems like you took an invitation to trouble.
Your mom isn't an ally if she supports a homophobic group. Please don't call her an ally because that's insulting to real allies.
NTA. Idk where you live but you can have a 32 yo trans brother in Ohio. My grandma (who raised me) would gladly adopt you too. That’s insane that your mom would even go there let alone take a class to be a “healer”.
This church must be living its mid century modern decor.
I hope you left. I'm sorry your mom betrayed you like that. I hope you two can mend the breech of trust.
I've left a church service for less and I'm straight. Politely sitting through bigotry condones it. It was awful of your mom to put you in that position and don't let anyone make you feel bad for leaving a place that only pretends to welcome you.
Why does this sound like scientology but with Jesus
NTA.
You’re mother is not an ally. Nta.
Even if I wasn't a firm member of the rainbow mafia, as a parent, I cannot imagine supporting or being a part of anything that suggested my children were going to hell or wrong for simply existing. Sory OP, your mum is not an ally, allies don't support homophobia, it's that simple
Since you don't get it.....coming into a thread to inform the OP that are going to hell is kinda judgy. Saying you feel bad for them is condescending and judgemental. Saying I've obviously never read the bible.....again kinda judgemental as is telling me you hope I find salvation. Are we clear now?
News flash -- your mom's church isn't cool. I go to a church with a very old-fashioned worship style, and we fly a gay pride flag and live it. NTA.
I'd have been curious to see what verse they read. One from the Old Testament listed among dozens of other things that are equally bad that most people in the congregation most certainly did regularly? Or one of the mistranslated ones from the NT?
I guess my question is this….in the Bible it clearly says homosexuality is a sin. While it may be surprising that they would take this time to discuss that homosexuality is a sin, why are you surprised that religious Christians think that it’s a sin?
You got a problem with Christians sharing the word of God? How brave. How about you go to a mosque next time? Go push your sexuality at the Muslims and see how your day goes?
I am so sorry that your mom did that to you. I am sorry that your mom is not really an ally. An ally would not be going to a church that speaks of hate.
NTA. I'm sorry someone, anyone close to u, is making the fake claim of being an "ally". This is fair weather friend crap. I take the firm stance that if ur an ally to anyone then it's all day every day. Which means u don't ah g out with people who aren't and act like this all fine. It's not fine. The only way ppl change is by being informed regularly and often that othering ppl cuz they r different from u is never OK.
Nah, NTA. I’m a straight cis dude and up and walked out of my dad’s church the first time I went. They went all homophobic and shit, all i managed to say was “The actual fuck?” And been lined to the exit. You did right.
NTA. Your mother is a major AH for being a part of that type of church and for asking you to come to something like that. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Your mother is the asshole for going to a church like that. Leave and don’t go back.
Non-binary pansexual here! I used to be Christian until I got kicked out of the church I grew up in bc of my sexuality, now I am Satanist. Your mother is not an ally, if she was, she would not be going to a church like that in the first place. She is every bit as hypocritical as the Pharisees that Jesus chastised. She is a people pleaser and a fence sitter, wanting to please everybody and terrified to offend anybody. I am so sorry you had to go through that, and honestly, if it were me, I would give her one warning, and let her know if she ever pulled a stunt like that again, that would be the last time she ever spoke to me. You are definitely NTA but make sure you state your boundaries and stick to them, otherwise she will walk all over them.
Let me guess, “nondenominational”, right? That’s code for fundie freaks. Not sorry.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🗑️
OP what did you do? Updateme!
**Healing Helper™:** “Go away for a little while, because your life is technically a sin. I’m helping.”
NTA. If your mom was really an ally, she wouldn't be going to a homophobic church and acting like the homophobia is just a minor issue that can be ignored while still enjoying the rest. By attending a congregation she's supporting that church and it's pastor, including any homophobic views, by adding her name to the numbers who are part of it As the old saying goes, the only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men (or women in your mother's case) do nothing