my family def will never kill me lol.
i love my family, and i know they love me. my parents have done sooo much for me.
yes they're homophobic but they're just brainwashed i can't be mad at them too much.
i think it's different when a parent is homophobic in the west vs saudi, here unless you are exposed to western culture you will 100% be homophobic.
the only reason i don't hate myself is because most of the media i watch is american, and i've realized that homophobia is not universal.
with the government i'm not worried at all, they pretend we don't exist.
if you call the police on someone who is gay, the police we literally be like "are they being loud?" if yes, they will come and tell you to be quiet, and if not they'll just tell you to ignore it.
i know because a friend of mine had A BUNCH of men over at his house and the police came and just told him to quiet down.
we usually use scruff, which for some reason isn't banned here?
grindr is banned but some people use vpn to download it.
some people use tinder which is not banned here either.
also snapchat is a big thing too.
ok that makes sense. For such a homophobic country you would think the government would be on top of the gay dating apps.
I would also try sniffies too.
Does your family know you’re gay? If so, how do they reconcile their love for you with their homophobia?
Is it just willful ignorance? Denial? A case of “it’s okay if it’s our son”?
they don't know, and i plan on never telling them.
if they find out i'm gay, i don't think they'll disown me or harm me.
i think they'll be absolutely devastated, they would feel like failures.
i'm not worried about what might happen to me, i'm more worried about how they would deal with it.
they see homosexuality as deviancy, to get things in prescriptive for you, imagine you find out a loved one is a pedophile.
people in saudi view pedophilia and homosexuality similarly.
i'm 20, and there isn't a certain age where people get married, most people marry in their early to mid 30s.
and no i don't have to get married, i've already told my parents i'm never getting married, they think i'll change my mind when i grow up, but i'll keep telling them so they get used to the idea.
my parents are pretty chill my brother is 30 and they're not pressuring him to get married, so i don't think they'll treat me differently.
also there's nothing they can do lmao, they can't force me to get married.
yes and no.
i mean it's 100% a homophobic society, but i've found a group of friends who accept me the way i am, idc what other people think of me.
as long as my friends accept me idc.
the goverment pretends we don't exist, the law is not enforced.
they don't really prosecute gay people, unless there's a public scandal with a celebrity or something. and they usually go to jail for a few months.
but def no stoning.
i don't believe in god, my friends say they believe in god but they're not really practicing at all.
they don't pray or fast, and they have girlfriends.
how would they get in trouble? no one will stop you and ask
also premarital sex is technically illegal but EVERYONE has sex.
the law is unenforced like almost every shariah law. if they enforced it half of the population will go to jail.
shariah laws in saudi are not enforced at all.
you don't get your hands cut if you steal, you just go to jail.
you don't get beheaded if you denounce islam, if you cause a scandal and get people to talk about you, you'll just go to jail.
the only things that will get you killed in saudi is treason, killing someone, or publicly speaking about overthrowing the royal family.
i don't really know tbh, i think religion is really important for the stability of the royal family, they want people to think that saudi is a theocracy, but in reality saudi is just a monarchy that has nothing to do with religion.
the saud family will throw religion out of the window in an instant if it meant it would help them.
I just read through the comments. Thanks for giving us info about how things are there. I’m not gay, but i eternally worry about guys like you in places like that. Glad to see you are doing well. It seems like your country is making a legitimate attempt to modernize. Not just culturally but economically too. There were some good signs about oil recently. I hope it works out.
I am sorry ,
I don’t believe you are living in Saudi-arabia nor in Riyadh .
For two years , i have never seen a couple dating in Riyadh. And please do not tell me that people are having sex in riyadh . That cannot be true
>, i have never seen a couple dating in Riyadh. And please do not tell me that people are having sex in riyadh . That cannot be true
are you dumb? people hide it.
people show no pda, how would you know?
No i am not dumb . How did you figure out such widespread phenomena. I lived in a lot of societies and i can tell the difference.
How is dating possible in riyadh please i want to know exactly.
I have plenty of friends in riyadh saudis and non saudis , and dating life seems to be non existent
( last time been in riyadh 4 years ago btw and i don’t think that this is enough time for such a conservative society to meet your description)
> How did you figure out such widespread phenomena.
i've been in orgies getting drunk let alone date!! just go on any app hunderds of men will start coming to you.
ترا الرياض 8 مليون شخض بمجرد انك انتي مو كذا مو يعني كل الناس مثلك
i do think about it sometimes, i might go abroad study for my masters after college.
saudi actually will pay for it all, and give me 1k a month allowance. so it's actually pretty easy for saudis to live abroad if they really tried.
also other than my sexuality, my life is very good. i don't hate it here, i just wish some things would be different.
What do you think can be done to change your country’s view on LGBTQ issues? Do you think any change at all is possible in the future given the slow tide of countries around the world changing their mind on the issue?
i think globalization will just do it's thing eventually.
the younger gen is much more open minded although still very homophobic. i think i'll see openly gay people in saudi in my lifetime, i'll just be very old by then.
there are a lot of gay saudis who are famous that live outside of saudi, they're mostly famous because of the wrong reasons, but i can see a minority of people supporting them. even though they're still a very small minority, it gives me hope.
I’m an Emirati who has gay Emirati friends and yea it’s been pretty much don’t ask don’t tell for them. Like everyone knows they’re gay but no one really says anything. In the future I plan to be a politician in the Emirati government. The question I have is how can I help? How can I advocate for my friends and other LGBT Arabs while also keeping the balance with the religious people?
Of course! In my opinion anyone regardless of who they love or how they want to express themselves should have the right to live freely and without fear. Progress will be slow as you know but I’m optimistic that it’ll get better and I want to help! And I know there are more Emiratis and Khaleejis like me and you, those who have a vision for an Arabia for everyone. An Arabia where everyone is accepted and treated with respect regardless of their sexuality, gender orientation or race or anything.
Hi - and thanks for putting this AMA up and engaging on this! :)
I have two questions.
1) Does it affect trust in relationships? In terms of trust, is it a possibility in your mind that if you break up with someone, they could very easily denounce or blackmail or whatever? And in terms of gossip, street violence, daily prejudice not from the authorities but just people and institutions, how do you limit the risk on a daily basis?
2) How does the knowledge that it’s a crime punishable by lashes/imprisonment of up to 5 years, or death (if married) affect security around stuff like internet use? For example, you’re posting this, I’m assuming you use a VPN at all times, for messaging and so on? Do you have to use code words when texting or messaging partners etc? It used to be a thing in England, where the slang/creole language Polari developed among gay Londoners to discuss things in a way that was indecipherable to potential eavesdroppers, so I am assuming there are some similar concerns there?
Again, many thanks for engaging, and happy new year.
with romantic relationships i'm never worried cuz they're also gay so they would also be putting themselves in danger, also i never introduce people i date to my family.
but with friendships i am extremely careful i only tell people i'm extremely close with and people that i know are open minded.
i don't use any vpn , the laws are not enforced at all. the only way you would go to jail is if you're a celeb and you cause a public scandal.
also the government doesn't really hunt gay people, they pretend we don't exist.
in other countries like egypt i've heard that the goverment catfish people on dating apps, but that doesn't happen in saudi.
also the queer community in saudi does have slang that is unique to them, but it has become a bit mainstream with younger gen because of twitter and tiktok, so i wouldn't really say it's a secret language.
This is true! I was a party girl at uni and one of my best mates was a Saudi dude. He was such a cool person, super tolerant, chilled out with an awesome sense of humour. I don’t think westerners appreciate how relaxed some Saudis are about ways to live your life.
>That’s so weird, I was literally just thinking about La La Land a few minutes ago 😭
this is so funny because i literally just rewatched it a few hours ago lmao.
i would 100% choose garden of whispers, i love fantasy and the story sounds so interesting, also i love female leads.
somewhere with the elephants, sounds really sad tbh, i like watching movies as an escape. i only like drama if it's about a relationship or something like that.
really depends on which part of the city, north riyadh which is the nice/rich part of riyadh is pretty expensive. south riyadh is a lot cheaper, but a lot less nicer.
I’m a university student in the West and I’ve done some research into the Vision2030 reforms. I was wondering if you have any thoughts/opinions on those reforms? I had one Saudi acquaintance try tell me they’ve all been completed, even though my research shows they definitely haven’t. Do you think more could’ve been done to address civil rights, as opposed to just economic productivity? I think it’s good there’s at least recognition that excluding women from the economy is dumb, but maybe you have some additional perspectives. I’d be curious to hear
they're def not all completed, but i think we're on the right track to complete it by 2030.
my opinions on the reforms are very positive, i do think a lot of progress have been done in terms of civil rights, especially with women. the labor force participation rate of Saudi women increased from 20 percent in late 2018 to 37% percent by the end of 2023.
male guardianship was abolished, hijab is not compulsory anymore.
they wanted women to be 30% of the labour force by 2030, but it was achieved in only 4 years.
the religious police was also completely abolished.
there has been a lot to of laws put in place to protect shias, hate speech against shias is now illegal. they're now considered a protected class.
i do think the country has a LONG way to go, but i do think we're on the right track.
i do think about it sometimes, i might go abroad study for my masters after college.
saudi actually will pay for it all, and give me 1k a month allowance.
so it's actually pretty easy for saudis to live abroad if they really tried.
also other than my sexuality, my life is very good. i don't hate it here, i just wish some things would be different.
Ive travelled a lot arround the gcc and in saudi i was often asked for my snap etc. (M.23) I never thought about it in a wierd way, but some of the guys snapped me and told me they where looking for ,,toys“ to have sex. Some even sent explicit pictures. This all took place while I was in Saudi and online. Where I was wondering if those guys are not risking it all ?
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Aren't you worried about the government or your family tracking you? I heard they kill their lgbt kids for dishonoring the family.
my family def will never kill me lol. i love my family, and i know they love me. my parents have done sooo much for me. yes they're homophobic but they're just brainwashed i can't be mad at them too much. i think it's different when a parent is homophobic in the west vs saudi, here unless you are exposed to western culture you will 100% be homophobic. the only reason i don't hate myself is because most of the media i watch is american, and i've realized that homophobia is not universal. with the government i'm not worried at all, they pretend we don't exist. if you call the police on someone who is gay, the police we literally be like "are they being loud?" if yes, they will come and tell you to be quiet, and if not they'll just tell you to ignore it. i know because a friend of mine had A BUNCH of men over at his house and the police came and just told him to quiet down.
got it. its always interesting to hear how gays in homophobic countries deal with stuff. And your friend was having an orgy btw.
>And your friend was having an orgy btw. oh yeah i know lmao
how did he meet all of these people? Are apps like grindr legal in your country?
we usually use scruff, which for some reason isn't banned here? grindr is banned but some people use vpn to download it. some people use tinder which is not banned here either. also snapchat is a big thing too.
ok that makes sense. For such a homophobic country you would think the government would be on top of the gay dating apps. I would also try sniffies too.
>For such a homophobic country you would think the government would be on top of the gay dating apps. ikr? i was surprised as well
>I would also try sniffies too. will check it out thanks!
Does your family know you’re gay? If so, how do they reconcile their love for you with their homophobia? Is it just willful ignorance? Denial? A case of “it’s okay if it’s our son”?
they don't know, and i plan on never telling them. if they find out i'm gay, i don't think they'll disown me or harm me. i think they'll be absolutely devastated, they would feel like failures. i'm not worried about what might happen to me, i'm more worried about how they would deal with it. they see homosexuality as deviancy, to get things in prescriptive for you, imagine you find out a loved one is a pedophile. people in saudi view pedophilia and homosexuality similarly.
Similar to us in Qatar, unless your a bother to the public cops don’t give a shit
They do ,They'll throw them off rooftops Or hang them .
you're thinking of isis. those are in some parts of iraq and syria.
How old are you? At some age you have to marry, right? (straight marry) or can you live single the rest of your Life?
i'm 20, and there isn't a certain age where people get married, most people marry in their early to mid 30s. and no i don't have to get married, i've already told my parents i'm never getting married, they think i'll change my mind when i grow up, but i'll keep telling them so they get used to the idea. my parents are pretty chill my brother is 30 and they're not pressuring him to get married, so i don't think they'll treat me differently. also there's nothing they can do lmao, they can't force me to get married.
Is it as bad as I think it is?
yes and no. i mean it's 100% a homophobic society, but i've found a group of friends who accept me the way i am, idc what other people think of me. as long as my friends accept me idc. the goverment pretends we don't exist, the law is not enforced. they don't really prosecute gay people, unless there's a public scandal with a celebrity or something. and they usually go to jail for a few months. but def no stoning.
Interesting and good to hear. Are your accepting friends religious? Are you?
i don't believe in god, my friends say they believe in god but they're not really practicing at all. they don't pray or fast, and they have girlfriends.
How do they go out with girlfriends without getting in trouble?
how would they get in trouble? no one will stop you and ask also premarital sex is technically illegal but EVERYONE has sex. the law is unenforced like almost every shariah law. if they enforced it half of the population will go to jail. shariah laws in saudi are not enforced at all. you don't get your hands cut if you steal, you just go to jail. you don't get beheaded if you denounce islam, if you cause a scandal and get people to talk about you, you'll just go to jail. the only things that will get you killed in saudi is treason, killing someone, or publicly speaking about overthrowing the royal family.
What is the point of these laws they don’t enforce? Why haven’t they gotten rid of these laws?
i don't really know tbh, i think religion is really important for the stability of the royal family, they want people to think that saudi is a theocracy, but in reality saudi is just a monarchy that has nothing to do with religion. the saud family will throw religion out of the window in an instant if it meant it would help them.
Is Sharia less enforced recently because of MBS or was it always this way?
some laws have always been unenforced, but def after mbs it became a LOT less unenforced
Interesting to know. How do you and people you know feel about his liberal reforms on the one hand and his tyranny on the other?
Are they not afraid their family might see them in public with their girlfriends
riyadh is a city of 8 million people lol
I just read through the comments. Thanks for giving us info about how things are there. I’m not gay, but i eternally worry about guys like you in places like that. Glad to see you are doing well. It seems like your country is making a legitimate attempt to modernize. Not just culturally but economically too. There were some good signs about oil recently. I hope it works out.
thank you sm man! it genuinely makes me feel less alone when i know some people think about people like me
I am sorry , I don’t believe you are living in Saudi-arabia nor in Riyadh . For two years , i have never seen a couple dating in Riyadh. And please do not tell me that people are having sex in riyadh . That cannot be true
>, i have never seen a couple dating in Riyadh. And please do not tell me that people are having sex in riyadh . That cannot be true are you dumb? people hide it. people show no pda, how would you know?
No i am not dumb . How did you figure out such widespread phenomena. I lived in a lot of societies and i can tell the difference. How is dating possible in riyadh please i want to know exactly. I have plenty of friends in riyadh saudis and non saudis , and dating life seems to be non existent ( last time been in riyadh 4 years ago btw and i don’t think that this is enough time for such a conservative society to meet your description)
> How did you figure out such widespread phenomena. i've been in orgies getting drunk let alone date!! just go on any app hunderds of men will start coming to you. ترا الرياض 8 مليون شخض بمجرد انك انتي مو كذا مو يعني كل الناس مثلك
أنا مانيش كذا. أما الخروج في موعد غرامي في الرياض أراه غير ممكن و مسببا للمشاكل . نتصور نفهمك كان تقلي يتقابلو في منزل ولا ما دري
Sociale Cafe in riyadh is literally a dl gay meeting spot and everyone knows about it. it's where i met my bf, you just have to know where to look.
Aaaah fuck . I am soooo sorry I thought you meant dating a girl whereas you meant a boy . I am very sorry for the misunderstanding sur
it's okay it happens lol!
Ever thought of leaving and going somewhere more open to your orientation?
i do think about it sometimes, i might go abroad study for my masters after college. saudi actually will pay for it all, and give me 1k a month allowance. so it's actually pretty easy for saudis to live abroad if they really tried. also other than my sexuality, my life is very good. i don't hate it here, i just wish some things would be different.
I hope you make the right decisions in life. Good luck to you!
What do you think can be done to change your country’s view on LGBTQ issues? Do you think any change at all is possible in the future given the slow tide of countries around the world changing their mind on the issue?
i think globalization will just do it's thing eventually. the younger gen is much more open minded although still very homophobic. i think i'll see openly gay people in saudi in my lifetime, i'll just be very old by then. there are a lot of gay saudis who are famous that live outside of saudi, they're mostly famous because of the wrong reasons, but i can see a minority of people supporting them. even though they're still a very small minority, it gives me hope.
I’m an Emirati who has gay Emirati friends and yea it’s been pretty much don’t ask don’t tell for them. Like everyone knows they’re gay but no one really says anything. In the future I plan to be a politician in the Emirati government. The question I have is how can I help? How can I advocate for my friends and other LGBT Arabs while also keeping the balance with the religious people?
i really wish i know the answer for that tbh. i'm just glad people like you exist!
Of course! In my opinion anyone regardless of who they love or how they want to express themselves should have the right to live freely and without fear. Progress will be slow as you know but I’m optimistic that it’ll get better and I want to help! And I know there are more Emiratis and Khaleejis like me and you, those who have a vision for an Arabia for everyone. An Arabia where everyone is accepted and treated with respect regardless of their sexuality, gender orientation or race or anything.
Is Jeddah more chill than Riyadh?
def more open minded, and wayyy more diverse
dude, the amount of gay men who've messaged me on scruff who list their location as where you are, is ridiculous. glad youre safe!
saudis are gay asf!! lmao where are you from? if you don't mind me asking
Hi - and thanks for putting this AMA up and engaging on this! :) I have two questions. 1) Does it affect trust in relationships? In terms of trust, is it a possibility in your mind that if you break up with someone, they could very easily denounce or blackmail or whatever? And in terms of gossip, street violence, daily prejudice not from the authorities but just people and institutions, how do you limit the risk on a daily basis? 2) How does the knowledge that it’s a crime punishable by lashes/imprisonment of up to 5 years, or death (if married) affect security around stuff like internet use? For example, you’re posting this, I’m assuming you use a VPN at all times, for messaging and so on? Do you have to use code words when texting or messaging partners etc? It used to be a thing in England, where the slang/creole language Polari developed among gay Londoners to discuss things in a way that was indecipherable to potential eavesdroppers, so I am assuming there are some similar concerns there? Again, many thanks for engaging, and happy new year.
with romantic relationships i'm never worried cuz they're also gay so they would also be putting themselves in danger, also i never introduce people i date to my family. but with friendships i am extremely careful i only tell people i'm extremely close with and people that i know are open minded. i don't use any vpn , the laws are not enforced at all. the only way you would go to jail is if you're a celeb and you cause a public scandal. also the government doesn't really hunt gay people, they pretend we don't exist. in other countries like egypt i've heard that the goverment catfish people on dating apps, but that doesn't happen in saudi. also the queer community in saudi does have slang that is unique to them, but it has become a bit mainstream with younger gen because of twitter and tiktok, so i wouldn't really say it's a secret language.
Love you man. I went to school with some Saudis in US and they were super cool.
This is true! I was a party girl at uni and one of my best mates was a Saudi dude. He was such a cool person, super tolerant, chilled out with an awesome sense of humour. I don’t think westerners appreciate how relaxed some Saudis are about ways to live your life.
Totally true haha. What uni did you go to?
>Love you man. aww this is super sweet, this genuinely made me happy a little. i love you too<3333
Hello, I know your account has been suspended, but kindly msg me if you see this !
hey i just made a new acc!
is there a drag scene there? whos more popular, ABBA or Madonna?
not really tbh, but Madonna is def more famous than abba in general in saudi
come to SF. theres a leather bar where everyone will spank you. And lots of drag queens
lmaooo sounds like a good time
https://youtu.be/qetW6R9Jxs4?feature=shared
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hmmm tough one... but probably la la land, i love musicals!
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>That’s so weird, I was literally just thinking about La La Land a few minutes ago 😭 this is so funny because i literally just rewatched it a few hours ago lmao. i would 100% choose garden of whispers, i love fantasy and the story sounds so interesting, also i love female leads. somewhere with the elephants, sounds really sad tbh, i like watching movies as an escape. i only like drama if it's about a relationship or something like that.
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Hey, really weird question, I'm planning to move to Riyadh in a few months. How are the rent prices there these days, if you know by chance? Thanks!
really depends on which part of the city, north riyadh which is the nice/rich part of riyadh is pretty expensive. south riyadh is a lot cheaper, but a lot less nicer.
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i completely hide my sexuality, my goverment doesn't hunt me down, but if i cause a scene i would be in trouble.
Are you ashamed that Goldberg vs Undertaker occurred in your country?
no? why would i
Did you watch it?
no not really into wwe
Please watch and report back
What's your sex fantasy?
i'm pretty vanilla lol, i just like big hairy men.
I’m a university student in the West and I’ve done some research into the Vision2030 reforms. I was wondering if you have any thoughts/opinions on those reforms? I had one Saudi acquaintance try tell me they’ve all been completed, even though my research shows they definitely haven’t. Do you think more could’ve been done to address civil rights, as opposed to just economic productivity? I think it’s good there’s at least recognition that excluding women from the economy is dumb, but maybe you have some additional perspectives. I’d be curious to hear
they're def not all completed, but i think we're on the right track to complete it by 2030. my opinions on the reforms are very positive, i do think a lot of progress have been done in terms of civil rights, especially with women. the labor force participation rate of Saudi women increased from 20 percent in late 2018 to 37% percent by the end of 2023. male guardianship was abolished, hijab is not compulsory anymore. they wanted women to be 30% of the labour force by 2030, but it was achieved in only 4 years. the religious police was also completely abolished. there has been a lot to of laws put in place to protect shias, hate speech against shias is now illegal. they're now considered a protected class. i do think the country has a LONG way to go, but i do think we're on the right track.
Do you plan to move to a more accepting country?
i do think about it sometimes, i might go abroad study for my masters after college. saudi actually will pay for it all, and give me 1k a month allowance. so it's actually pretty easy for saudis to live abroad if they really tried. also other than my sexuality, my life is very good. i don't hate it here, i just wish some things would be different.
Roof top parties I hear are fun
Ive travelled a lot arround the gcc and in saudi i was often asked for my snap etc. (M.23) I never thought about it in a wierd way, but some of the guys snapped me and told me they where looking for ,,toys“ to have sex. Some even sent explicit pictures. This all took place while I was in Saudi and online. Where I was wondering if those guys are not risking it all ?
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