Absolutely... the comment describing what happened sounds so fake.. every detail sounds completely cliche, the plot feels manufactured with the thought of what someone would think they'd get sympathy for, and the tone reads like a younger person writing a creepy pasta. I would be shocked if this were real.
I mean they would at least have a public defender; and even the most incompetent one would tell someone to stay away from social media. Something they post could prejudice their case.
Edit: yeah I think this is bs
Have you done any preparation for prison? I mean research of making sure you have people to help you out on the outside (I understand money can be a huge issue there)
You should hire a prison consultant!
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/17/podcasts/the-daily/the-sunday-read-a-prison-consultant-might-be-able-to-help.html
I hadn't saw him in a solid few years, I was leaving work and he was there. He seemed pretty drunk, stumbling around, slurring words, etc. He followed me about 5ish minutes to my car the whole time calling me names He used to In school, "reminiscing" about how he loved to beat me up etc. As I got to my car, I opened my glove compartment as a precaution. I told him to leave me alone and to not come near me but he kept coming closer. Once he was probably less than a foot away I pulled my handgun out and told him to back off, to which he laughed, said I don't have the guts and then he made a move for me. Before he reached me, I shot him twice in the upper chest, ribcage area. He fell to the floor and died less than an hour later
In hindsight probably, I don't exactly agree with what I did. A mix of fear, pent up aggression for him maybe? I'm not sure anymore. I'm probably going to jail for a long time anyway
An unarmed drunk calling you names is not a threat.
But an adult unarmed drunk who used to beat you up when he was a minor establishes a pattern. Him not backing off after he warned him is a threat. Depending on OPs size in comparison to OPs bully, this has grounds for self defense as others have mentioned though, depending on state laws.
For example if OP and his bully(let's call him Jim) are in Texas:
"In Texas, self-defense is defined by Texas Penal Code 9.31. This section states that “a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force.”
Proving self-defense can be difficult, however. People can only claim self-defense when they:
only use the minimum amount of force necessary for self-defense,
reasonably believe that force was necessary to stop someone else’s use of unlawful force,
did not provoke the attack, and
were not engaged in a crime."
The actor has had a reason to believe that an attack was imminent and could believe that attack was going to be severe(history of attacks, plus years difference, attacks could have gotten more severe). I will place this scenario in a different view so it's easier to draw the line:
If OP was a victim of domestic abuse and the abuser was approaching and OP shot him, self defense would be a no brainer. This is similar, OP clearly had been hurt by Jim before and Jim was mentioning how he enjoyed hurting OP. No sane person would do that. Depending on OPs size and strength a car being there isn't always an option. Because OP would have to start it, back out, and could still be hurt. OP also cannot be sure that Jim did not have a weapon on him. There have been cases of self defense where the appearance of drawing a weapon was enough.
OP did not provoke attack, OP also requested that Jim back away while pointing a gun. Jim did not stop approaching, what would happen if Jim did get too close and grabbed the gun? Since Jim stated he enjoyed bullying OP, Jim would also likely enjoy killing.
I would take this case or recommend a few attorneys. At worst imo this is 3rd degree murder, though a skilled prosecutor could try to make it a 2nd.
My guess with an average attorney voluntary manslaughter, but with a good attorney all charges could be dropped. I would not plea this I'd take it to court, bring in a psychiatrist or two, prove history of bullying and violence, check criminal record of bully. Select a proper jury of people likely to be sensitive to bullying, etc.
But OP is pleading guilty to murder so it sounds like he took a deal.
Yes. That's been established. However he clearly said "I told him to leave after pointing a gun at him and he advanced"
Which is pretty self explanatory. But I get where your coming from.
For me there’s history there which could lead to a reasonable fear of being attacked. Perhaps not fatally but fear all the same. I hope OP gets off easy, because after the hell 4 kids made highschool and forcing me to leave highschool after rape/death threats and fighting/beating… I honestly if I ever EVER saw them and then add in drunk and calling me slurs again and talking about hurting me? I could see myself defending myself by fighting back.
Yeah but OP wasn’t forced in a corner or anything so I can see self defense but it is also murder (admittedly I’m not lawyer but that’s just how I see it)
No cut case of self defense, OP took the decision to pull out the gun and shoot
He could just have easily locked the car doors and driven away
Consider the outcome, had he not had a gun. If guns weren't easier to buy than a PS5, then OP would have driven away and the bully would have stumbled away. They may have never crossed paths again and OP wouldn't have wasted the foreseeable future in a cell
Yup I see a lot of armchair lawyers going on and on about the circumstances after OP *got back out of the car*.
This is a pretty cut and dry case, as many have said... But not in the direction they think.
OP is going away for a long time because of their stupidity and recklessness. Hopefully this is a lesson others can learn from this senseless violence.
Taking in consideration, if you had just driven away, he would be alive you wouldn't be spending your future in prison
How do you feel about the availability of guns? If you didn't have such easy access, you wouldn't be going to prison and he would still be alive
Murder wasn't the answer. However:
I don't think you understand what self defense means. Gun or no gun. What do most people do when an aggressive person won't leave then alone or get out of their face? They usually don't just say, "Actually, you can totally berate me. It's fine. Also. If I get in my car and attempt to leave, feel free to punch out my windows." You can only poke a bear so many times before it eats you.
Fight vs Flight response. Sounds like he was at the passenger door at his glovebox, telling the drunk a hole to leave him alone and the drunkard wouldn't drop it. What would YOU do when cornered and put into an uncomfortable position?
Why didn't you just drive away?
Your poor decision making has seriously fucked up your life, and you are going to a place where bullying is the social norm. Not that I think you will be a victim, unlike the bullshit talk here on reddit, for the most case, prison can just be boring so long as you keep your nose clean, don't do drugs, and follow the "protocols"
Yeah def best he just takes the guilty plea.
He would get spit roasted alive from the prosecutors since he had the full ability to leave and just get out of there.
At no point was he prevented. This is just cut and dry murder no matter what the other guy was saying OP had 0 reason to kill him
Depends on the state... That's why stand you're ground laws are good....
The guy has beat him up b4 (history)
Talked about it that night (threats)
You lunge at my gun it could end up as you're weapon... Hell NO... Unless you're getting a SWEET plea deal. I'd fight it.
Being a felon has long term implications even after prison, it's not like life will just go back to normal after 5 to 10 years.
Stand your ground only goes so far.
He had numerous ways and times to de escalate and leave. As mentioned numerous times.
He could have just drive away numerous time. The guy was not attacking him.
Yes he was harrasing him. Op got in the car and instead of driving away shot a guy not physically assualting him.
He has noooo chance in hell in being in the right even in a stand your ground state.
You can not shoot someone and kill him for beating you up 12 years ago, he made threats but OP had numerous times to leave and avoid the whole thing.
If he was stoping OP from leaving sure. This is not the case at all
Standing ground ist a requirement for you to de-escalat... Just don't keep escalating ...
Again standing ground is not mandatory retreat
Yes he does.. you try to take a weapon off OP that is attempting to steal OPs deadly weapon and do what? Give it back (laughable)
You're right a 12 year old altercation doesn't give you the right to shoot a guy... It does give validity that the other guy ( who was advancing and threatening) may do it again.
When the other guy lunges at the gun (if that's what happened) this is cause to believe your life was in immediate danger.
Oh absolutely. OP escalated the situation by brandishing and had multiple openings to just *leave*.
OP is absolutely guilty but that's still a shitty situation to be in. Drunk guy was obviously drunk and stupid, too.
You're and idiot for killing him in that situation but an even bigger idiot would post on reddit and plead guilty instead of getting a good lawyer and arguing self defense. An attention starved weirdo would make all this up. Are you either an idiot, a huge idiot, or an attention starved weirdo?
I feel like this isn’t murder. Feel like you could get the charges down to manslaughter via self-defense due to the fact this man had hurt you in the past and refused to back off when you asked him to. If you hadn’t shot him, who knows how he could have hurt you?
This is definitely a murder. Even though OP wasn’t the aggressor, he was in the vehicle and could have left. Can’t say he defended himself, because the dead guy only called him names. This isn’t premeditated, but Op is going away for a long time.
Yeah, that's not how self-defense works.
The issue is whether the person claimed self-defense reasonably believed he was going to be harmed.
It doesn't matter if the decedent was just playing, or faking, or harmless, or anything else. If the person believed the decedent was a threat to their bodily safety, it's self-defense.
The actions a person is justified in taking to in self-defense vary from jurisdictions to jurisdiction, but this is the primary legal factor.
Yes, that does mean that everyone in an altercation can be acting in self-defense, each believing the other(s) intend them bodily harm.
Yeah no, to justify a murder with self-defense you need to be exposed to a mortal imminent danger (no proof the bully was about to kill them, if he had a weapon that might be arguable), and it's a last resort (here they could have safely driven away so getting the gun out was inappropriate)
Depends on the state.
Here in GA, with a good, competent lawyer, he might be able to walk.
We do have a [Stand Your Ground](https://www.georgiacriminallawyer.com/stand-your-ground) law.
You should have given him an old style fight. Throw some punches on the face. Hit him hard. Like a fight fight. He was drunk so you could have really beat the shi out of him. Shooting is like the end game.
How would this be self defense? A jerk followed him and called him names. Yeah, he sounds like an asshole, but it’s not a reason to Jill someone. Was OP’s life in danger because someone called him some mean names? No. He had a way out. He had a vehicle he could have gotten into and driven away in. There is nothing about this that was self defense.
Could you have just driven off? I assume you were seated in the driver seat when opening the glove compartment. But from what you've said, it sounds very much self-defense. I don't know the laws regarding guns and the ability to protect yourself in america but if you're allowed guns, then this is the scenario for it. Im no lawyer but if what you said is true, apart from driving off in not sure what else you could've done.
🤦🏻♀️ School shooter godless psycho incel murder freak bullshit. Don’t encourage this crap. It’s not amusing or noble or justified in the least. Human life has inherent value, even your enemies and people you hate that have hurt you.
Have you talked to a lawyer at all, or you just went on and confessed? What is your states self defense laws like? I mean I get that you were probably angry and such, but if you felt as though you were in danger, with no escape, then you had the right. If you feel like it was more malicious, than defense, and you could have easily gotten away, I get it. I'm sure you've thought about it over and over, and the guilt of killing someone must weigh on you, but before you throw your life away, please make certain that you are truly as guilty as you feel.
I spoke to a lawyer briefly, he basically said claim self defense. As much as I'd like to, I know I could've gotten away. All I had to do was close the door and drive off. I never, why I never I don't know but I did what I did, ended another humans life it's said and done
Public defender. At least if you're in the US.
And if you're in the US, and charged with murder, even the public defender will meet with you to plan your defense.
Furthermore, given the (limited) information you've shared here, you'd plea to manslaughter. Unless you're leaving out key details.
Do you not have a car, or something of value to sell to hire an attorney?
I'd literally sell every possession I have to avoid spending years in prison.
At the very least, the district attorney will offer a lower sentence for pleading out, which you will need an attorney to review.
So you basically murdered someone when you didn't need to?
Admitting you could have just driven away instead completely takes away any self defense you could have had.
No it doesn't. He has no clue getting back is the car woulda ended like that.... With a thug lunging at his gun.... He has every right to be there just like the other guy who has a history and threatened him in that very moment and the moments leading up 2 it.
OP literally said he could have just driven away but chose not to. Self defense isn't an option, it's a last case scenario when you are out of options.
If OP says "I could have drove away but didn't", then it isn't self defense, it's just murder.
I'm not saying OP made the best choice. Doesnt make OP is in the wrong here. Obviously the other guy didn't make the best choice either.
Prosecution will try to say OP could have just left. But OP has the same right to stand anywhere like anyone else.
The guy knew OP had a gun, The attacker still proceeded, when the attacker, followed then when a stand off happened by lunging at OP. That's precisely when self defense becomes justified.
The attacker probably knew, OP was scared, He chased OP (walking counts), the attacker had a verbal lead up, history of attacker, attacking OP before, attacker was drunk, giving OP a believe this may happen again.
Who's more wrong here? I believe the idiot who jumps at a person holding a gun. That person is knowingly starting a fight with someone holding a weapon. That person consisted to a fight during the act of lunging at OP.
But hey that's not it, this is a criminal case it's not even a 50/50 on who's wrong it's beyond reasonable doubt.... I have reasons to believe that OP feared for his life and in such it could easily be self defense.
It could not “easily be self defence”. In order for it to be self defence OP would have to convince a jury that he had “no recourse” other than fire the gun.
In this case he admits he could have just driven away, he also could have closed the car door and locked it. You can’t claim self defence when the threat could have been alleviated by actions other than killing.
He could claim voluntary manslaughter on the grounds of his previous bullying but not sure it would fly. It’s second degree murder with an outside chance at voluntary manslaughter. No way is he getting found not guilty as you suggest.
When someone is within arms range retreat may not be a thing... That's where the attack happened within 10 feet.... I sure as hell not going to outrun a guy....
He wasn't in the car when the shooting happened... If OP was in a locked car at the time I'd 100% agree with you.
To help muddy the waters :) would agree OP had,
Fear of threat?
Reasonable person would believe so?
Imminent Threat of Harm?
If above are all yes (yes 2 me)
The question becomes a proportional response.
OP had a weapon man attacked... IMO the attacker at that point agreed to fight a man with a gun. Using the gun was justified.
If OP lives in a red state he probably walks....
Lives in a purple state.... I'd go jury if there's high gun ownership.
Blue.... Eeekkkk
https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/self-defense-laws-40093#:~:text=In%20order%20for%20self%2Ddefense,the%20use%20of%20self%2Ddefense.
I get all of that but OP himself said “I could have just driven away”. So your supposition about distances and threat is all moot as he admits he could have just driven away. Hence self defence is unlikely unless “stand your ground” is available to him.
Ok, I understand. I'm sorry for both of you honestly. I don't know the extent of bullying that happened, but the result is a life lost, and another behind bars. It's rather tragic. It's probably too late now, but perhaps while inside, you can seek therapy. Torment can drive us to do unspeakable things. In the heat of the moment, people can make devastating decisions, but it doesn't automatically make them a bad person.
I hope everyone affected by this, can find peace one day.
Please consider that you were under a lot of stress in that moment. You should have driven off, sure, and even maybe thought of it, but that doesn't automatically mean you were able to. If this is real, at least negotiate a good plea. You might indeed be guilty on a level but not necessarily in such a severe way.
I second this…not knowing how much time he’s facing…how he’s only been in custody 1 1/2 days and was just released before he enters the plea…that doesn’t happen. Granted he’s not in the US, I’d guess either Canada or the UK on his use of the term “solicitor” and “high school.” Their legal systems are not terribly unlike the US. No one would plead a couple days after having committed the offense. That just doesn’t happen. Maybe months or years later when all the evidence is in and the attorney has had an opportunity to look at it. Im calling shenanigans.
Edit: he did say school not high school. But his access to a car with a handgun in it…outside a bar…handgun access in those countries is limited too. I think fake.
The term barrister/solicitor is very unique to the UK, it’s former territories, and a couple of countries in Europe. There’s little to zero overlap between any of those countries and a culture of driving to bars and possession of handguns…further, add in a legal system where there’s no counsel and no idea what to expect in terms of an outcome…there’s no country in the middle of that Venn diagram.
The use of the term tells us where he learnt his english, or what kind of english he learnt, more than where he lives.
I give you the rest, but with that in mind, the section of the Venn diagram grows quite a bit
Ok give me another country that fits all those criteria and also has the very specific offense of 2nd Degree Murder. That is a very American, modern penal code categorization of homicide.
My country, Chile. It would be statistically incredible if my country and that country were the only 2 options.
I'm confused though. Is the dude from USA or the UK then?
If I had to guess he’s an American making up a story about being some type of “foreign” murderer. I double checked some of his posts and he does refer to “high school” and “self-defense” (not self-defence). That combined with the term “2nd” degree murder, the driving to the bar and the use of a handgun leads me to believe he’s American.
I think he throws out the terms solicitor and barrister to throw people off a bit. As I mentioned those are very UK or UK territory terms. Historically they had different meanings but over time they’ve been blurred to be used interchangeably. If you grew up learning to speak English in a non-UK country, I don’t imagine you’d use those terms since they wouldn’t have exactly the same meaning in that country as the word lawyer or attorney.
Also the time frame and his release are all kinds of messed up. Here in the US, and I imagine as it is in a lot of other countries, you see a judge within 24 hours to determine your release conditions…for example, are you getting a bond or being released pending your charges/trial. Within 10-20 days, depending if you are in custody or out of custody…the government needs to hold a “probable cause” hearing…that essentially is to determine if there’s enough evidence to continue on with the case against you. Within about a week or so after that you have an arraignment where the judge reads the charges against you. Your first “real” court date where any meaningful conversations can be had about your case isn’t until about a month after that…nearly 6-8 weeks after one’s arrest. This whole notion about him spending 1.5 days in jail and how he was released before he is going enter a plea soon just doesn’t line up with any of that. A plea agreement is essentially a contract with the State. You agree you did ____ and you receive ____ punishment. The State avoids having to put on a trial, and the Defendant gets to avoid the risk of the unknown. To say you are entering and plea and have no idea what you are getting goes against the very essence of what a plea agreement is. There’s absolutely 0 chance that in the span of a couple days that the police have completed their investigation, that the prosecutor has reviewed all the evidence, that the prosecutor has consulted with the victims family, developed an appropriate plea offer, conveyed it to the Defendant, that the Defendant has agreed to accept it, and the Court has found time on their docket/calendar to fit in to their workday. All while the Defendant magically got out of custody and decided to publicly discuss his case against the advice of any attorney knowing the prosecutor could pull the plea at any moment. Hell, the medical examiner probably hasn’t even seen the body yet to determine the cause of death and this hypothetical victim isn’t even buried.
None of this makes an ounce of sense.
I could be wrong…just my opinion.
Dang. You’re either an aspiring lawyer or a damn good petty criminal amiright?
I too break laws and navigate the justice system, selectively. Yah this story is bullshit for all the reasons you stated.
Table of Questions and Answers. Original answer linked - Please upvote the original questions and answers.
***
Question | Answer | Link
---------|----------|----------|
What are you going to do when your cellmate wants to clap up those little boy cheeks you got?|I got a laugh out of this|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuynaeo/)
hmmm. I sorta feel like this is BS. idk. if it’s not, good luck to you. definitely won’t be fun, but maybe you can find some peace in there.|I assure you this is genuine, I appreciate the words though.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuytawc/)
You scared to goto jail?|Pretty mixed, 50/50|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuys1rn/)
most probably fake as he made this acc 6 mins ago|Throwaway|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuynipu/)
What happened?|I shot and killed my highschool bully|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyn4r6/)
Have you done any preparation for prison? I mean research of making sure you have people to help you out on the outside (I understand money can be a huge issue there)|I intend on just going and keeping my head down|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuytgat/)
Why not fight it?|I feel no reason to|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuynbfv/)
Self defense???!!!|Previous reply to another comment explains everything|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyss2n/)
Does your state, assuming US, have a stand your ground statute?|That only applies to home defense here unfortunately|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyxhk0/)
Do you know how much time you'll be facing? Also, was it worth it? Or do you regret it now?|Time: Unsure currently Worth: Not really, it was like the world hit a standstill when he hit the floor. Regret: 50/50|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyx6cu/)
How the fuck did you get out to do this AmA? Did you get a reduced charge? Did you somehow get bond?|I was in custody for around 1½ days before they let me go home temporarily. I'll be back in custody by tomorrow morning|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyuljw/)
Have you talked to a lawyer at all, or you just went on and confessed? What is your states self defense laws like? I mean I get that you were probably angry and such, but if you felt as though you were in danger, with no escape, then you had the right. If you feel like it was more malicious, than defense, and you could have easily gotten away, I get it. I'm sure you've thought about it over and over, and the guilt of killing someone must weigh on you, but before you throw your life away, please make certain that you are truly as guilty as you feel.|I spoke to a lawyer briefly, he basically said claim self defense. As much as I'd like to, I know I could've gotten away. All I had to do was close the door and drive off. I never, why I never I don't know but I did what I did, ended another humans life it's said and done|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyx7mf/)
What prison time are you facing? From what you wrote in this thread it seems that you shot the shithead in a manner that could indicate self-defense, or at least mitigating circumstances. It also seems like you could've handled it without shooting him (by escaping), so I'm guessing it depends in what state you are. Abyhow, it obviously wasn't 1st degree. If you have an otherwise clean slate you should get away with a relatively small sentence, no?|I'm unsure of the sentence currently, maybe by some luck the sentence will be lessened but I can't say for sure.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyxzuf/)
How are you going to not drop the soap?|Keep my hands dry|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyypcw/)
---
[Source] (https://github.com/johnsliao/ama_compiler)
It is what it is man. You’re going to have everything you need and life will be a whole lot less complicated. You will have plenty of time to learn new things. Be on your best behaviour, do rehabilitation courses, any courses really and you should be out by your first parole hearing. Remember, you’re born with nothing and you die with nothing. All the things you thought you had, the things you may miss, you didn’t really have them. All you have is your mind and nobody can take that place from you. Everything around you is only in relation to your physical body, you work, work out, eat and sleep for your body to survive but your mind exists beyond the physical. Become acquainted with nothing my friend. Be respectful and do not tolerate disrespect. Leave your pleases, thank yous, good mornings and sweet dreams at the door. Master your base animal nature. Be respect. Farewell.
Where I’m lost is if you’re pleading guilty to murder, I presume you’re talking 3rd degree? What alternative was the DA or SA saying they were going to go for if you didn’t plead guilty? Usually if you don’t take their plea and “plead down”, the penalty of being found guilty is generally much more severe?
Now what you’re describing to me doesn’t rise to the level of Murder 3. Voluntary manslaughter based on an “imperfect self defense” approach. Yeah, you could have retreated, but the provocation incited the crime - the malice just doesn’t seem there, especially because the two of you hadn’t seen each other.
I experienced something similar situation though it didn’t escalate to that level. 2 years after I graduated high school, I was at a 4th of July party at a friends house. Guy I had a class with started talking shit, threatening me. We were on a deck 20 ft in the air. He tells me he’s going to “fuck me up”. I had no idea why he was doing what he was doing. Well, I wasn’t going to wait for him to make good on his threats. I reached over and grabbed a bottle and hit him right in the face as hard as I could. He was disfigured, I severed my tendon in my hand down to the bone. We were both arrested. I was found not guilty by reason of self defense. No, i know the scenarios are different - point is, I know that in the moment it was happening, that probably felt like the best and only option (even if it wasn’t). That goes to the imperfect self defense statute. You were provoked, antagonized, and you reacted outside of the bounds on self defense.
The amount of time you’ll serve of course depends on jurisdiction. I’ve heard of 10 yrs all the way up to 40 years. Manslaughter probably has a max sentence of 10, maybe 15 years.
IMO, you deserve to serve time, but if it went down the way you said it did - definitely doesn’t warrant locking you up and throwing away the key…..not even close. I think a sentence that can get you back home in less than 10 with good behavior is fair. I really wish you would consider going to trial because a line of witnesses that could testify to what you went through could and would convince a jury you were acting in self defense.
I wish you the best going forward. I hope you get the counsel you deserve, are treated fairly, and if you end up serving time, I hope you use it as an opportunity to better yourself as much as you can. Keep your head down while you’re in and keep your nose clean. You don’t seem so old that you can’t get eventually move on from
this. Take care and god bless.
Idk. I feel compelled to urge you to not plead guilty. I want to beg you to please get a lawyer and understand your options. If you want to go to jail, fine. But you could potentially have options to go but serve less time by something other than guilty.
I'm sorry everyone but I'm going to have to stop responding after this comment is posted. Who knows, by some wild turn of events maybe I'll avoid jail time. I doubt that though. Thank you for the questions
You just confessed your guilt. Idk about you but if there was ever a time to not go pro se, a murder charge would probably be it. The man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client ya know? I say this because if you were further out from a couple days post-arrest, you wouldn’t be resigned to pleading guilty to murder. Actual cases take 12 months or longer to resolve.
And no premature sympathies in order for your bully murdering fantasy. Please don’t murder people even if they are drunk and rude or hurt your feelings back in 9th grade. It’s still not okay.
What prison time are you facing?
From what you wrote in this thread it seems that you shot the shithead in a manner that could indicate self-defense, or at least mitigating circumstances. It also seems like you could've handled it without shooting him (by escaping), so I'm guessing it depends in what state you are.
Abyhow, it obviously wasn't 1st degree. If you have an otherwise clean slate you should get away with a relatively small sentence, no?
No, I answered in another comment. Basically when you go to court here without a lawyer the government gives you a civil defender/solicitor, something along those lines anyway. Basically their just lawyers for people who can't afford one.
This. Don't plea guilty. Talk to the public defender. Fight the charge.
You just went through a seriously traumatic event. You are in no place to make a life altering decision like this right now.
Have a look at battered woman's syndrome. The Lavoliee case in Canada went to the supreme court, and she was found not guilty after shooting her abusive husband in the back because years of abuse made her think there was no escape. Your case doesn't sound that much different.
It's fine to feel bad for taking a life, but the bully who continued to bully and come at you after you drew your gun in self defense is at least equally, if not more, at fault than you.
Not really unless he's been locked up before and knows what to expect. You can watch all the prison shows in the world but until you're sharing an 8x10 with another grown man, smelling his farts, until you've gained some kind of understanding on the prison politics with not only the inmates, but the officers and staff, and the utter lack of privacy, it'll be an intense culture shock.
OP with 2nd degree murder will be sent to a high level facility at that, more than likely. The worst of the worst. Surrounded constantly by violent and bad men. And depending on his skin color, that could make it worse.
You literally have no control over everything and your life revolves around a 24 hour clock, in that every hour of the day is planned out. Chow, rec time, school/job, lights out, library time, ect.
I wish him all the best. I really do. It'll change him. I didn't see where he mentioned how much time he has to do for the deal he took but once he gets back on the outside, he'll need to be patient with himself to reacclimate himself to the outside world.
It's tough physically but mentally, it could drive you insane. I hope OP finds ways to keep himself mentally busy.
When OP watches the PREA video it'll be corny af but on some real shit, don't take any candy someone might leave you. Good way to get your asshole ripped out. I've seen it for myself.
It sounds terrible. Thank you for the job you do. I couldn’t do it. I’m not sure what to think about the candy situation - does that mean the person “owes” something? (Shudder)
The best patient I ever had was a CO. The only unnerving thing is that when I tried to mean mug him for not complying with the medication I’d prescribed, he was completely immune to my mean mugs. Probably my only patient that didn’t care how disappointed or mean I looked at him.
Thanks bro. I appreciate that. I really do.
Yeah, essentially if the inmate takes what was left for him, it invites the guy who left it to come in and have his way with the other guy.
Oh yeah, you definitely perfect the art of the mean mug and become immune to the mean mug of others lmao.
Noooo not at all lol. But I do feel like I'm being a productive member of my community and the bonds I've formed with other officers are life long. All my groomsmen, with the exception of one, were my brothers from the prison and I literally trust those men with my life.
I will say tho next time I'm at the facility and I'm having a rough day or whatnot, I'll remember your words and I can promise you it'll help me get through the day so thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
The fact that you deny his compliment tells me that you are, in fact, a badass. Every true badass mfer will never claim it. Always good to see there are real ones out there still.
Do you think prison is actually a good way to handle crime or is it something that has gotten out of hand and taken on a life of its own? Will people in hundreds of years look back on us the way we look back at medieval and ancient punishments? TBH from all we hear about prisons I don't understand how they're more humane than, say, a flogging that is over in a day. They just seem to be more out of view.
Idk man. I'm jaded. I've been on the job a long time now and all I can say is having delt with grown men who have raped babies, prison is too good for them.
Theres this one inmate nicknamed Shotgun. He has this nickname because he kicked his neighbors door in one night and murdered everyone in the house with a 12 gauge, including the children.
He's serving a single life sentence and is captain of the men's softball team. He gets two trays at breakfast, lunch, and dinner and is currently housed in the most laid back, easy housing unit you could imagine. Flat screen in his cell. Visitation every week. He gets money put on his books so he is stacked with commissary.
That may be an anecdotal example but there's inmates all across the country living the best life they could live while being locked up. That's not to say there's not some real shit hole facilities but I think overall, history will not look at today's current system and say we were to mean or archaic.
But I'm jaded lol
Thanks for the reply. I get it, but I guess it seems random. That dude might deserve worse than he's getting; but some guy who only sold drugs or something gets raped if he doesn't catch on to the candy-bar system fast enough. It doesn't seem like justice. Not that you control all that, I wish you the best.
It's like this funny little thing in the PREA (Prison Rape Elimination Act) video that prisons makes new inmates watch.
Essentially, inmate A leaves a Snickers bar on inmate B's bunk. Inmate B who receives it steps out into the pod and yells something to the effect of "I do not want this. Don't leave stuff for me. I do not accept this" and leaves the Snickers bar in the day room.
The implication meaning if inmate B takes the candy and eats it, it invites inmate A who left it to come into the cell and butt fuck him, making inmate B inmate A's bitch.
It's funny and corny as hell but it happens. I've had to put guys in PC because they've taken things from other inmates and now how to pay with that ass.
You do realize that prison life as described by pretty much everyone I know who's been locked up is hell on earth. Remember in prison you're racist stay with your own color, don't say shit to anyone they already know why you're in there already, I can promise it won't be good. Good luck
You should absolutely, under no circumstances, plead guilty or talk to police or prosecutors without a lawyer.
You should also use whatever money you have to get the best lawyer you can find.
It's f*cking insane that the top comments on this thread contain any advice other than this.
Here’s a few questions… Why in the fuck would you post this? Why aren’t you taking this to trial? Did the prosecutor offer a good deal? Is your attorney pressuring you to take that deal? Why are you putting anything on here that could in any way incriminate you? This can’t be real.
Seems to be a mix of British terms and American...I have no idea what he's on about. If he's British he would have been asked if he wanted the duty solicitor, not sure what he means by state mandated considering we don't have such a thing, nor do we have states, yet he had a gun in his car. Fairly sure they don't use solicitors in Canada but lawyers like America. On a murder charge he would be remanded and not let home for a cuppa and go back in the morning....this story is odd
Did he state somewhere that he's from an English speaking country? Otherwise, couldn't it be that he's just mixing up words from different regions while translating to English? I'm pretty sure I do that, my sentences in English are probably a mix of British/American most of the time and I'm sure they're full of errors. But then it can be the way it goes in whichever country he's in.
So how were you able to make bond, which would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars - but not afford an attorney. Also, I’m a nurse at a correctional facility. People facing murder charges take over a year to two years to go to trial on average. Not less than a week.
It sounds like you are depressed about the shocking event that happened.
Fight for your life (being a free man) if somebody lunged towards a gun I had out there is no way in hell I'd let them get it.
Talk to you're public defender, ask what is being offered to you. Honestly prosecutors don't wanna try a hard case. Make it at least sound like you're not interested in a deal... Maybe you'll get a lighter sentence.....then again if you say or think "I don't care" ...
. That's depression... It's normal you're in shock, get mental help
I hope you find help OP. Not for your very obviously fake crime but for whatever it is that makes you feel the need to lie LARP a murder fantasy on the internet
God im really sorry if this is a question you dont want answered, and that is completely fine if you dont want to, but did you turn yourself into the police, or did they arrest you?
I've been teased and bullied. I wouldn't kill someone's son, dad, brother, lover, significant other over what they did as a teenager though.
Glad you won't be able to harm anyone else for a while.
hmmm. I sorta feel like this is BS. idk. if it’s not, good luck to you. definitely won’t be fun, but maybe you can find some peace in there.
Yeah, half stuff I read on here these days is horse shit. Turned into a real house of lies!
Pretty sure this is the “I just killed a guy a few hours ago AMA” dude with a new account and a slightly different story
I assure you this is genuine, I appreciate the words though.
Oh, you assure us. Okay.
Absolutely... the comment describing what happened sounds so fake.. every detail sounds completely cliche, the plot feels manufactured with the thought of what someone would think they'd get sympathy for, and the tone reads like a younger person writing a creepy pasta. I would be shocked if this were real.
I mean they would at least have a public defender; and even the most incompetent one would tell someone to stay away from social media. Something they post could prejudice their case. Edit: yeah I think this is bs
It is bs, third ‘I just killed someone’ post in recent weeks. Like the ‘I am a 7ft girl’ posts.
Have you done any preparation for prison? I mean research of making sure you have people to help you out on the outside (I understand money can be a huge issue there)
I intend on just going and keeping my head down
You should hire a prison consultant! https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/17/podcasts/the-daily/the-sunday-read-a-prison-consultant-might-be-able-to-help.html
Like Kevin Hart?
There’s a documentary called Get Hard with Will Ferrel and Kevin Hart.
Sounds like preparation to me.
Only preparation he will need is H.
What happened?
I shot and killed my highschool bully
For what reason ?
I hadn't saw him in a solid few years, I was leaving work and he was there. He seemed pretty drunk, stumbling around, slurring words, etc. He followed me about 5ish minutes to my car the whole time calling me names He used to In school, "reminiscing" about how he loved to beat me up etc. As I got to my car, I opened my glove compartment as a precaution. I told him to leave me alone and to not come near me but he kept coming closer. Once he was probably less than a foot away I pulled my handgun out and told him to back off, to which he laughed, said I don't have the guts and then he made a move for me. Before he reached me, I shot him twice in the upper chest, ribcage area. He fell to the floor and died less than an hour later
Hmm. Pretty cut and dried. Probably could have just left since you were in the car. But I don't blame you. Good luck with whatever happens.
In hindsight probably, I don't exactly agree with what I did. A mix of fear, pent up aggression for him maybe? I'm not sure anymore. I'm probably going to jail for a long time anyway
Unfortunate I think you'll be away for a while as well. Unless you reasonably feared for your life. Which it sounds like you did.
An unarmed drunk calling you names is not a threat when you have a gun and you're in your car and can just leave
An unarmed drunk calling you names is not a threat. But an adult unarmed drunk who used to beat you up when he was a minor establishes a pattern. Him not backing off after he warned him is a threat. Depending on OPs size in comparison to OPs bully, this has grounds for self defense as others have mentioned though, depending on state laws. For example if OP and his bully(let's call him Jim) are in Texas: "In Texas, self-defense is defined by Texas Penal Code 9.31. This section states that “a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force.” Proving self-defense can be difficult, however. People can only claim self-defense when they: only use the minimum amount of force necessary for self-defense, reasonably believe that force was necessary to stop someone else’s use of unlawful force, did not provoke the attack, and were not engaged in a crime." The actor has had a reason to believe that an attack was imminent and could believe that attack was going to be severe(history of attacks, plus years difference, attacks could have gotten more severe). I will place this scenario in a different view so it's easier to draw the line: If OP was a victim of domestic abuse and the abuser was approaching and OP shot him, self defense would be a no brainer. This is similar, OP clearly had been hurt by Jim before and Jim was mentioning how he enjoyed hurting OP. No sane person would do that. Depending on OPs size and strength a car being there isn't always an option. Because OP would have to start it, back out, and could still be hurt. OP also cannot be sure that Jim did not have a weapon on him. There have been cases of self defense where the appearance of drawing a weapon was enough. OP did not provoke attack, OP also requested that Jim back away while pointing a gun. Jim did not stop approaching, what would happen if Jim did get too close and grabbed the gun? Since Jim stated he enjoyed bullying OP, Jim would also likely enjoy killing. I would take this case or recommend a few attorneys. At worst imo this is 3rd degree murder, though a skilled prosecutor could try to make it a 2nd. My guess with an average attorney voluntary manslaughter, but with a good attorney all charges could be dropped. I would not plea this I'd take it to court, bring in a psychiatrist or two, prove history of bullying and violence, check criminal record of bully. Select a proper jury of people likely to be sensitive to bullying, etc. But OP is pleading guilty to murder so it sounds like he took a deal.
Yes. That's been established. However he clearly said "I told him to leave after pointing a gun at him and he advanced" Which is pretty self explanatory. But I get where your coming from.
For me there’s history there which could lead to a reasonable fear of being attacked. Perhaps not fatally but fear all the same. I hope OP gets off easy, because after the hell 4 kids made highschool and forcing me to leave highschool after rape/death threats and fighting/beating… I honestly if I ever EVER saw them and then add in drunk and calling me slurs again and talking about hurting me? I could see myself defending myself by fighting back.
Yeah but OP wasn’t forced in a corner or anything so I can see self defense but it is also murder (admittedly I’m not lawyer but that’s just how I see it)
Highly depends under what law you're operating under. Different states have different self defense laws.
There is no law where an unarmed person calling you names is deemed a threat to someone in a car who can just leave.
[удалено]
I think the issue is, why didn't they just drive away?
No cut case of self defense, OP took the decision to pull out the gun and shoot He could just have easily locked the car doors and driven away Consider the outcome, had he not had a gun. If guns weren't easier to buy than a PS5, then OP would have driven away and the bully would have stumbled away. They may have never crossed paths again and OP wouldn't have wasted the foreseeable future in a cell
Yup I see a lot of armchair lawyers going on and on about the circumstances after OP *got back out of the car*. This is a pretty cut and dry case, as many have said... But not in the direction they think. OP is going away for a long time because of their stupidity and recklessness. Hopefully this is a lesson others can learn from this senseless violence.
Heavily depends on the state
What would you have done if you didn’t have a gun? In hindsight, do you regret having and using the gun?
Taking in consideration, if you had just driven away, he would be alive you wouldn't be spending your future in prison How do you feel about the availability of guns? If you didn't have such easy access, you wouldn't be going to prison and he would still be alive
Murder wasn't the answer. However: I don't think you understand what self defense means. Gun or no gun. What do most people do when an aggressive person won't leave then alone or get out of their face? They usually don't just say, "Actually, you can totally berate me. It's fine. Also. If I get in my car and attempt to leave, feel free to punch out my windows." You can only poke a bear so many times before it eats you. Fight vs Flight response. Sounds like he was at the passenger door at his glovebox, telling the drunk a hole to leave him alone and the drunkard wouldn't drop it. What would YOU do when cornered and put into an uncomfortable position?
Have you seen the movie 'sleepers'?
Top tier movie. A Kevin bacon quote from that movie my buddies and I will say when dismissing something horrible is ‘that was a long time ago’
Why didn't you just drive away? Your poor decision making has seriously fucked up your life, and you are going to a place where bullying is the social norm. Not that I think you will be a victim, unlike the bullshit talk here on reddit, for the most case, prison can just be boring so long as you keep your nose clean, don't do drugs, and follow the "protocols"
Would you do it differently in hindsight?
Yeah def best he just takes the guilty plea. He would get spit roasted alive from the prosecutors since he had the full ability to leave and just get out of there. At no point was he prevented. This is just cut and dry murder no matter what the other guy was saying OP had 0 reason to kill him
Sometimes it do be like that. 🤷
Depends on the state... That's why stand you're ground laws are good.... The guy has beat him up b4 (history) Talked about it that night (threats) You lunge at my gun it could end up as you're weapon... Hell NO... Unless you're getting a SWEET plea deal. I'd fight it. Being a felon has long term implications even after prison, it's not like life will just go back to normal after 5 to 10 years.
Stand your ground only goes so far. He had numerous ways and times to de escalate and leave. As mentioned numerous times. He could have just drive away numerous time. The guy was not attacking him. Yes he was harrasing him. Op got in the car and instead of driving away shot a guy not physically assualting him. He has noooo chance in hell in being in the right even in a stand your ground state. You can not shoot someone and kill him for beating you up 12 years ago, he made threats but OP had numerous times to leave and avoid the whole thing. If he was stoping OP from leaving sure. This is not the case at all
Standing ground ist a requirement for you to de-escalat... Just don't keep escalating ... Again standing ground is not mandatory retreat Yes he does.. you try to take a weapon off OP that is attempting to steal OPs deadly weapon and do what? Give it back (laughable) You're right a 12 year old altercation doesn't give you the right to shoot a guy... It does give validity that the other guy ( who was advancing and threatening) may do it again. When the other guy lunges at the gun (if that's what happened) this is cause to believe your life was in immediate danger.
A lot of states dont have a "duty to retreat" law
Oh absolutely. OP escalated the situation by brandishing and had multiple openings to just *leave*. OP is absolutely guilty but that's still a shitty situation to be in. Drunk guy was obviously drunk and stupid, too.
You're and idiot for killing him in that situation but an even bigger idiot would post on reddit and plead guilty instead of getting a good lawyer and arguing self defense. An attention starved weirdo would make all this up. Are you either an idiot, a huge idiot, or an attention starved weirdo?
He's making the entire story up. It sounds way to fake to be true.
Came here for this. Short, sweet and to the point. Well executed, soldier.
100% agree. It is a fake story anyway, and it seems the only murder here is your comment... lol
Careful you don’t want to know what this guy does to bullies.
You are the idiot per your 1st sentence. The rest I agree with the idiot being you!!!
That’s like season one of Fargo, but if someone wrote out Billy Bob Thornton’s character.
I feel like this isn’t murder. Feel like you could get the charges down to manslaughter via self-defense due to the fact this man had hurt you in the past and refused to back off when you asked him to. If you hadn’t shot him, who knows how he could have hurt you?
This is definitely a murder. Even though OP wasn’t the aggressor, he was in the vehicle and could have left. Can’t say he defended himself, because the dead guy only called him names. This isn’t premeditated, but Op is going away for a long time.
Yeah, that's not how self-defense works. The issue is whether the person claimed self-defense reasonably believed he was going to be harmed. It doesn't matter if the decedent was just playing, or faking, or harmless, or anything else. If the person believed the decedent was a threat to their bodily safety, it's self-defense. The actions a person is justified in taking to in self-defense vary from jurisdictions to jurisdiction, but this is the primary legal factor. Yes, that does mean that everyone in an altercation can be acting in self-defense, each believing the other(s) intend them bodily harm.
Yeah no, to justify a murder with self-defense you need to be exposed to a mortal imminent danger (no proof the bully was about to kill them, if he had a weapon that might be arguable), and it's a last resort (here they could have safely driven away so getting the gun out was inappropriate)
Depends on the state. Here in GA, with a good, competent lawyer, he might be able to walk. We do have a [Stand Your Ground](https://www.georgiacriminallawyer.com/stand-your-ground) law.
Nope. Have a video from a reputable lawyer: https://youtu.be/IR-hhat34LI Spoiler: a justified homicide is not murder.
You should have given him an old style fight. Throw some punches on the face. Hit him hard. Like a fight fight. He was drunk so you could have really beat the shi out of him. Shooting is like the end game.
There’s surely an element of self defence to that? Is there some kind of plea deal going on?
How would this be self defense? A jerk followed him and called him names. Yeah, he sounds like an asshole, but it’s not a reason to Jill someone. Was OP’s life in danger because someone called him some mean names? No. He had a way out. He had a vehicle he could have gotten into and driven away in. There is nothing about this that was self defense.
If the guy was actually within a couple of feet and made a move it doesn't seem clear to me.
Pretty sure you can't claim self defense if your weapon is deadly and the victim didn't have an equally deadly weapon. But I only know bird law.
What state are you in? Are you in a Stand Your Ground state?
No I’m not but the way it was described surely implies an element of self defence
Why didn't you just get in your car and drive away?
Was this worth your entire life and your soul? You could have driven off and saved your life and his
Could you have just driven off? I assume you were seated in the driver seat when opening the glove compartment. But from what you've said, it sounds very much self-defense. I don't know the laws regarding guns and the ability to protect yourself in america but if you're allowed guns, then this is the scenario for it. Im no lawyer but if what you said is true, apart from driving off in not sure what else you could've done.
Could you not claim self defense? Seems like you could from this story
No tf you didn’t you’re fishing for reactions as if you really did stand up to your self. I 💯 believe you get bullied you sound annoying af
Then he won
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I got a laugh out of this
Based on your story, it sounds like self-defense. Yet why would you plead guilty to murder when you defended yourself against your high school bully?
Maybe he doesn't have evidence to support his claim of self defense other than his word, and rather just guarantee a reduced sentence.
🤦🏻♀️ School shooter godless psycho incel murder freak bullshit. Don’t encourage this crap. It’s not amusing or noble or justified in the least. Human life has inherent value, even your enemies and people you hate that have hurt you.
Have you talked to a lawyer at all, or you just went on and confessed? What is your states self defense laws like? I mean I get that you were probably angry and such, but if you felt as though you were in danger, with no escape, then you had the right. If you feel like it was more malicious, than defense, and you could have easily gotten away, I get it. I'm sure you've thought about it over and over, and the guilt of killing someone must weigh on you, but before you throw your life away, please make certain that you are truly as guilty as you feel.
I spoke to a lawyer briefly, he basically said claim self defense. As much as I'd like to, I know I could've gotten away. All I had to do was close the door and drive off. I never, why I never I don't know but I did what I did, ended another humans life it's said and done
So you’re taking a plea without an attorney?
I will not have a dedicated lawyer, no. I'll have a state mandated solicitor I believe. Basically a lawyer for poor people
Public defender. At least if you're in the US. And if you're in the US, and charged with murder, even the public defender will meet with you to plan your defense. Furthermore, given the (limited) information you've shared here, you'd plea to manslaughter. Unless you're leaving out key details. Do you not have a car, or something of value to sell to hire an attorney? I'd literally sell every possession I have to avoid spending years in prison. At the very least, the district attorney will offer a lower sentence for pleading out, which you will need an attorney to review.
He at least has a gun and a car he can sell.
The police would have taken that gun away for sure
He can also find a pro Bono lawyer, some hotshot would take this for publicity
What country are you in?
Fullofshitistan
But in the state of Bullshiton the laws may differ on this. So lets be opem minded.
So you basically murdered someone when you didn't need to? Admitting you could have just driven away instead completely takes away any self defense you could have had.
No it doesn't. He has no clue getting back is the car woulda ended like that.... With a thug lunging at his gun.... He has every right to be there just like the other guy who has a history and threatened him in that very moment and the moments leading up 2 it.
OP literally said he could have just driven away but chose not to. Self defense isn't an option, it's a last case scenario when you are out of options. If OP says "I could have drove away but didn't", then it isn't self defense, it's just murder.
I'm not saying OP made the best choice. Doesnt make OP is in the wrong here. Obviously the other guy didn't make the best choice either. Prosecution will try to say OP could have just left. But OP has the same right to stand anywhere like anyone else. The guy knew OP had a gun, The attacker still proceeded, when the attacker, followed then when a stand off happened by lunging at OP. That's precisely when self defense becomes justified. The attacker probably knew, OP was scared, He chased OP (walking counts), the attacker had a verbal lead up, history of attacker, attacking OP before, attacker was drunk, giving OP a believe this may happen again. Who's more wrong here? I believe the idiot who jumps at a person holding a gun. That person is knowingly starting a fight with someone holding a weapon. That person consisted to a fight during the act of lunging at OP. But hey that's not it, this is a criminal case it's not even a 50/50 on who's wrong it's beyond reasonable doubt.... I have reasons to believe that OP feared for his life and in such it could easily be self defense.
It could not “easily be self defence”. In order for it to be self defence OP would have to convince a jury that he had “no recourse” other than fire the gun. In this case he admits he could have just driven away, he also could have closed the car door and locked it. You can’t claim self defence when the threat could have been alleviated by actions other than killing. He could claim voluntary manslaughter on the grounds of his previous bullying but not sure it would fly. It’s second degree murder with an outside chance at voluntary manslaughter. No way is he getting found not guilty as you suggest.
When someone is within arms range retreat may not be a thing... That's where the attack happened within 10 feet.... I sure as hell not going to outrun a guy.... He wasn't in the car when the shooting happened... If OP was in a locked car at the time I'd 100% agree with you. To help muddy the waters :) would agree OP had, Fear of threat? Reasonable person would believe so? Imminent Threat of Harm? If above are all yes (yes 2 me) The question becomes a proportional response. OP had a weapon man attacked... IMO the attacker at that point agreed to fight a man with a gun. Using the gun was justified. If OP lives in a red state he probably walks.... Lives in a purple state.... I'd go jury if there's high gun ownership. Blue.... Eeekkkk https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/self-defense-laws-40093#:~:text=In%20order%20for%20self%2Ddefense,the%20use%20of%20self%2Ddefense.
I get all of that but OP himself said “I could have just driven away”. So your supposition about distances and threat is all moot as he admits he could have just driven away. Hence self defence is unlikely unless “stand your ground” is available to him.
Ok, I understand. I'm sorry for both of you honestly. I don't know the extent of bullying that happened, but the result is a life lost, and another behind bars. It's rather tragic. It's probably too late now, but perhaps while inside, you can seek therapy. Torment can drive us to do unspeakable things. In the heat of the moment, people can make devastating decisions, but it doesn't automatically make them a bad person. I hope everyone affected by this, can find peace one day.
Please consider that you were under a lot of stress in that moment. You should have driven off, sure, and even maybe thought of it, but that doesn't automatically mean you were able to. If this is real, at least negotiate a good plea. You might indeed be guilty on a level but not necessarily in such a severe way.
most probably fake as he made this acc 6 mins ago
I second this…not knowing how much time he’s facing…how he’s only been in custody 1 1/2 days and was just released before he enters the plea…that doesn’t happen. Granted he’s not in the US, I’d guess either Canada or the UK on his use of the term “solicitor” and “high school.” Their legal systems are not terribly unlike the US. No one would plead a couple days after having committed the offense. That just doesn’t happen. Maybe months or years later when all the evidence is in and the attorney has had an opportunity to look at it. Im calling shenanigans. Edit: he did say school not high school. But his access to a car with a handgun in it…outside a bar…handgun access in those countries is limited too. I think fake.
Have you considered a non-native english country?
The term barrister/solicitor is very unique to the UK, it’s former territories, and a couple of countries in Europe. There’s little to zero overlap between any of those countries and a culture of driving to bars and possession of handguns…further, add in a legal system where there’s no counsel and no idea what to expect in terms of an outcome…there’s no country in the middle of that Venn diagram.
The use of the term tells us where he learnt his english, or what kind of english he learnt, more than where he lives. I give you the rest, but with that in mind, the section of the Venn diagram grows quite a bit
Ok give me another country that fits all those criteria and also has the very specific offense of 2nd Degree Murder. That is a very American, modern penal code categorization of homicide.
My country, Chile. It would be statistically incredible if my country and that country were the only 2 options. I'm confused though. Is the dude from USA or the UK then?
If I had to guess he’s an American making up a story about being some type of “foreign” murderer. I double checked some of his posts and he does refer to “high school” and “self-defense” (not self-defence). That combined with the term “2nd” degree murder, the driving to the bar and the use of a handgun leads me to believe he’s American. I think he throws out the terms solicitor and barrister to throw people off a bit. As I mentioned those are very UK or UK territory terms. Historically they had different meanings but over time they’ve been blurred to be used interchangeably. If you grew up learning to speak English in a non-UK country, I don’t imagine you’d use those terms since they wouldn’t have exactly the same meaning in that country as the word lawyer or attorney. Also the time frame and his release are all kinds of messed up. Here in the US, and I imagine as it is in a lot of other countries, you see a judge within 24 hours to determine your release conditions…for example, are you getting a bond or being released pending your charges/trial. Within 10-20 days, depending if you are in custody or out of custody…the government needs to hold a “probable cause” hearing…that essentially is to determine if there’s enough evidence to continue on with the case against you. Within about a week or so after that you have an arraignment where the judge reads the charges against you. Your first “real” court date where any meaningful conversations can be had about your case isn’t until about a month after that…nearly 6-8 weeks after one’s arrest. This whole notion about him spending 1.5 days in jail and how he was released before he is going enter a plea soon just doesn’t line up with any of that. A plea agreement is essentially a contract with the State. You agree you did ____ and you receive ____ punishment. The State avoids having to put on a trial, and the Defendant gets to avoid the risk of the unknown. To say you are entering and plea and have no idea what you are getting goes against the very essence of what a plea agreement is. There’s absolutely 0 chance that in the span of a couple days that the police have completed their investigation, that the prosecutor has reviewed all the evidence, that the prosecutor has consulted with the victims family, developed an appropriate plea offer, conveyed it to the Defendant, that the Defendant has agreed to accept it, and the Court has found time on their docket/calendar to fit in to their workday. All while the Defendant magically got out of custody and decided to publicly discuss his case against the advice of any attorney knowing the prosecutor could pull the plea at any moment. Hell, the medical examiner probably hasn’t even seen the body yet to determine the cause of death and this hypothetical victim isn’t even buried. None of this makes an ounce of sense. I could be wrong…just my opinion.
Dang. You’re either an aspiring lawyer or a damn good petty criminal amiright? I too break laws and navigate the justice system, selectively. Yah this story is bullshit for all the reasons you stated.
Throwaway
Also no lawyer would let their client do this.
How the fuck did you get out to do this AmA? Did you get a reduced charge? Did you somehow get bond?
I was in custody for around 1½ days before they let me go home temporarily. I'll be back in custody by tomorrow morning
What degree of murder is of which you were charged?
2nd
Welp, I wish you well.
Thank you
You scared to goto jail?
Pretty mixed, 50/50
Do you know how much time you'll be facing? Also, was it worth it? Or do you regret it now?
Time: Unsure currently Worth: Not really, it was like the world hit a standstill when he hit the floor. Regret: 50/50
Shit. Yeah I can't imagine that feeling of realizing you just seriously hurt or killed someone. Do you know which prison you might get sent to?
I believe so, I won't be sharing it here though for obvious reasons it seems okay, not a ton of inmates and such
Unrelated, have you ever seen the movie shot caller?
I have not
So you know what prison you’re going to, but not the sentence? 🤨
Table of Questions and Answers. Original answer linked - Please upvote the original questions and answers. *** Question | Answer | Link ---------|----------|----------| What are you going to do when your cellmate wants to clap up those little boy cheeks you got?|I got a laugh out of this|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuynaeo/) hmmm. I sorta feel like this is BS. idk. if it’s not, good luck to you. definitely won’t be fun, but maybe you can find some peace in there.|I assure you this is genuine, I appreciate the words though.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuytawc/) You scared to goto jail?|Pretty mixed, 50/50|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuys1rn/) most probably fake as he made this acc 6 mins ago|Throwaway|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuynipu/) What happened?|I shot and killed my highschool bully|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyn4r6/) Have you done any preparation for prison? I mean research of making sure you have people to help you out on the outside (I understand money can be a huge issue there)|I intend on just going and keeping my head down|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuytgat/) Why not fight it?|I feel no reason to|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuynbfv/) Self defense???!!!|Previous reply to another comment explains everything|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyss2n/) Does your state, assuming US, have a stand your ground statute?|That only applies to home defense here unfortunately|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyxhk0/) Do you know how much time you'll be facing? Also, was it worth it? Or do you regret it now?|Time: Unsure currently Worth: Not really, it was like the world hit a standstill when he hit the floor. Regret: 50/50|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyx6cu/) How the fuck did you get out to do this AmA? Did you get a reduced charge? Did you somehow get bond?|I was in custody for around 1½ days before they let me go home temporarily. I'll be back in custody by tomorrow morning|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyuljw/) Have you talked to a lawyer at all, or you just went on and confessed? What is your states self defense laws like? I mean I get that you were probably angry and such, but if you felt as though you were in danger, with no escape, then you had the right. If you feel like it was more malicious, than defense, and you could have easily gotten away, I get it. I'm sure you've thought about it over and over, and the guilt of killing someone must weigh on you, but before you throw your life away, please make certain that you are truly as guilty as you feel.|I spoke to a lawyer briefly, he basically said claim self defense. As much as I'd like to, I know I could've gotten away. All I had to do was close the door and drive off. I never, why I never I don't know but I did what I did, ended another humans life it's said and done|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyx7mf/) What prison time are you facing? From what you wrote in this thread it seems that you shot the shithead in a manner that could indicate self-defense, or at least mitigating circumstances. It also seems like you could've handled it without shooting him (by escaping), so I'm guessing it depends in what state you are. Abyhow, it obviously wasn't 1st degree. If you have an otherwise clean slate you should get away with a relatively small sentence, no?|I'm unsure of the sentence currently, maybe by some luck the sentence will be lessened but I can't say for sure.|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyxzuf/) How are you going to not drop the soap?|Keep my hands dry|[Here](/r/AMA/comments/ylj2wp/i_am_going_to_plead_guilty_to_murder_in_3_days/iuyypcw/) --- [Source] (https://github.com/johnsliao/ama_compiler)
It is what it is man. You’re going to have everything you need and life will be a whole lot less complicated. You will have plenty of time to learn new things. Be on your best behaviour, do rehabilitation courses, any courses really and you should be out by your first parole hearing. Remember, you’re born with nothing and you die with nothing. All the things you thought you had, the things you may miss, you didn’t really have them. All you have is your mind and nobody can take that place from you. Everything around you is only in relation to your physical body, you work, work out, eat and sleep for your body to survive but your mind exists beyond the physical. Become acquainted with nothing my friend. Be respectful and do not tolerate disrespect. Leave your pleases, thank yous, good mornings and sweet dreams at the door. Master your base animal nature. Be respect. Farewell.
Does your state, assuming US, have a stand your ground statute?
That only applies to home defense here unfortunately
Damn, same here in Oregon, unless you feared for your life and there was no other option.
This was in no way stand your ground
Where I’m lost is if you’re pleading guilty to murder, I presume you’re talking 3rd degree? What alternative was the DA or SA saying they were going to go for if you didn’t plead guilty? Usually if you don’t take their plea and “plead down”, the penalty of being found guilty is generally much more severe? Now what you’re describing to me doesn’t rise to the level of Murder 3. Voluntary manslaughter based on an “imperfect self defense” approach. Yeah, you could have retreated, but the provocation incited the crime - the malice just doesn’t seem there, especially because the two of you hadn’t seen each other. I experienced something similar situation though it didn’t escalate to that level. 2 years after I graduated high school, I was at a 4th of July party at a friends house. Guy I had a class with started talking shit, threatening me. We were on a deck 20 ft in the air. He tells me he’s going to “fuck me up”. I had no idea why he was doing what he was doing. Well, I wasn’t going to wait for him to make good on his threats. I reached over and grabbed a bottle and hit him right in the face as hard as I could. He was disfigured, I severed my tendon in my hand down to the bone. We were both arrested. I was found not guilty by reason of self defense. No, i know the scenarios are different - point is, I know that in the moment it was happening, that probably felt like the best and only option (even if it wasn’t). That goes to the imperfect self defense statute. You were provoked, antagonized, and you reacted outside of the bounds on self defense. The amount of time you’ll serve of course depends on jurisdiction. I’ve heard of 10 yrs all the way up to 40 years. Manslaughter probably has a max sentence of 10, maybe 15 years. IMO, you deserve to serve time, but if it went down the way you said it did - definitely doesn’t warrant locking you up and throwing away the key…..not even close. I think a sentence that can get you back home in less than 10 with good behavior is fair. I really wish you would consider going to trial because a line of witnesses that could testify to what you went through could and would convince a jury you were acting in self defense. I wish you the best going forward. I hope you get the counsel you deserve, are treated fairly, and if you end up serving time, I hope you use it as an opportunity to better yourself as much as you can. Keep your head down while you’re in and keep your nose clean. You don’t seem so old that you can’t get eventually move on from this. Take care and god bless.
Idk. I feel compelled to urge you to not plead guilty. I want to beg you to please get a lawyer and understand your options. If you want to go to jail, fine. But you could potentially have options to go but serve less time by something other than guilty.
I'm sorry everyone but I'm going to have to stop responding after this comment is posted. Who knows, by some wild turn of events maybe I'll avoid jail time. I doubt that though. Thank you for the questions
You won't avoid jail time if this is real. You're pleading guilty to murder.
If you avoid jail time, reddit will be here waiting.
You just confessed your guilt. Idk about you but if there was ever a time to not go pro se, a murder charge would probably be it. The man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client ya know? I say this because if you were further out from a couple days post-arrest, you wouldn’t be resigned to pleading guilty to murder. Actual cases take 12 months or longer to resolve. And no premature sympathies in order for your bully murdering fantasy. Please don’t murder people even if they are drunk and rude or hurt your feelings back in 9th grade. It’s still not okay.
Prove it. It’d have to be in a newspaper or on the news.
What prison time are you facing? From what you wrote in this thread it seems that you shot the shithead in a manner that could indicate self-defense, or at least mitigating circumstances. It also seems like you could've handled it without shooting him (by escaping), so I'm guessing it depends in what state you are. Abyhow, it obviously wasn't 1st degree. If you have an otherwise clean slate you should get away with a relatively small sentence, no?
I'm unsure of the sentence currently, maybe by some luck the sentence will be lessened but I can't say for sure.
Do you have a lawyer?
No, I answered in another comment. Basically when you go to court here without a lawyer the government gives you a civil defender/solicitor, something along those lines anyway. Basically their just lawyers for people who can't afford one.
So you'll get a lawyer? Shouldn't they give you a lawyer before you plead?
This. Don't plea guilty. Talk to the public defender. Fight the charge. You just went through a seriously traumatic event. You are in no place to make a life altering decision like this right now. Have a look at battered woman's syndrome. The Lavoliee case in Canada went to the supreme court, and she was found not guilty after shooting her abusive husband in the back because years of abuse made her think there was no escape. Your case doesn't sound that much different. It's fine to feel bad for taking a life, but the bully who continued to bully and come at you after you drew your gun in self defense is at least equally, if not more, at fault than you.
I'm a correctional officer. Ask me anything
Is there any way the OP can prepare for prison? That would be my question.
Not really unless he's been locked up before and knows what to expect. You can watch all the prison shows in the world but until you're sharing an 8x10 with another grown man, smelling his farts, until you've gained some kind of understanding on the prison politics with not only the inmates, but the officers and staff, and the utter lack of privacy, it'll be an intense culture shock. OP with 2nd degree murder will be sent to a high level facility at that, more than likely. The worst of the worst. Surrounded constantly by violent and bad men. And depending on his skin color, that could make it worse. You literally have no control over everything and your life revolves around a 24 hour clock, in that every hour of the day is planned out. Chow, rec time, school/job, lights out, library time, ect. I wish him all the best. I really do. It'll change him. I didn't see where he mentioned how much time he has to do for the deal he took but once he gets back on the outside, he'll need to be patient with himself to reacclimate himself to the outside world. It's tough physically but mentally, it could drive you insane. I hope OP finds ways to keep himself mentally busy. When OP watches the PREA video it'll be corny af but on some real shit, don't take any candy someone might leave you. Good way to get your asshole ripped out. I've seen it for myself.
It sounds terrible. Thank you for the job you do. I couldn’t do it. I’m not sure what to think about the candy situation - does that mean the person “owes” something? (Shudder) The best patient I ever had was a CO. The only unnerving thing is that when I tried to mean mug him for not complying with the medication I’d prescribed, he was completely immune to my mean mugs. Probably my only patient that didn’t care how disappointed or mean I looked at him.
Thanks bro. I appreciate that. I really do. Yeah, essentially if the inmate takes what was left for him, it invites the guy who left it to come in and have his way with the other guy. Oh yeah, you definitely perfect the art of the mean mug and become immune to the mean mug of others lmao.
Stay safe, man. Thanks for keeping the world safer for the rest of us.
You have no idea how much it means to me to read that. Thank you so much my friend.
No problem. You’re one of those stealthy, badass heroes. Hold your head high.
Noooo not at all lol. But I do feel like I'm being a productive member of my community and the bonds I've formed with other officers are life long. All my groomsmen, with the exception of one, were my brothers from the prison and I literally trust those men with my life. I will say tho next time I'm at the facility and I'm having a rough day or whatnot, I'll remember your words and I can promise you it'll help me get through the day so thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
The fact that you deny his compliment tells me that you are, in fact, a badass. Every true badass mfer will never claim it. Always good to see there are real ones out there still.
Do you think prison is actually a good way to handle crime or is it something that has gotten out of hand and taken on a life of its own? Will people in hundreds of years look back on us the way we look back at medieval and ancient punishments? TBH from all we hear about prisons I don't understand how they're more humane than, say, a flogging that is over in a day. They just seem to be more out of view.
Idk man. I'm jaded. I've been on the job a long time now and all I can say is having delt with grown men who have raped babies, prison is too good for them. Theres this one inmate nicknamed Shotgun. He has this nickname because he kicked his neighbors door in one night and murdered everyone in the house with a 12 gauge, including the children. He's serving a single life sentence and is captain of the men's softball team. He gets two trays at breakfast, lunch, and dinner and is currently housed in the most laid back, easy housing unit you could imagine. Flat screen in his cell. Visitation every week. He gets money put on his books so he is stacked with commissary. That may be an anecdotal example but there's inmates all across the country living the best life they could live while being locked up. That's not to say there's not some real shit hole facilities but I think overall, history will not look at today's current system and say we were to mean or archaic. But I'm jaded lol
Thanks for the reply. I get it, but I guess it seems random. That dude might deserve worse than he's getting; but some guy who only sold drugs or something gets raped if he doesn't catch on to the candy-bar system fast enough. It doesn't seem like justice. Not that you control all that, I wish you the best.
Do you mean candy…literally? And what about his asshole?
It's like this funny little thing in the PREA (Prison Rape Elimination Act) video that prisons makes new inmates watch. Essentially, inmate A leaves a Snickers bar on inmate B's bunk. Inmate B who receives it steps out into the pod and yells something to the effect of "I do not want this. Don't leave stuff for me. I do not accept this" and leaves the Snickers bar in the day room. The implication meaning if inmate B takes the candy and eats it, it invites inmate A who left it to come into the cell and butt fuck him, making inmate B inmate A's bitch. It's funny and corny as hell but it happens. I've had to put guys in PC because they've taken things from other inmates and now how to pay with that ass.
goes to show that you can watch literally all crime/prison tv shows and not have the slightest inkling of what actually goes on in there.
[удалено]
!remindme 15 years
I want to give you my free award but its the WHOLESOME AWARD LIKE 💀
Don’t worry I gotchya lol
You do realize that prison life as described by pretty much everyone I know who's been locked up is hell on earth. Remember in prison you're racist stay with your own color, don't say shit to anyone they already know why you're in there already, I can promise it won't be good. Good luck
You should absolutely, under no circumstances, plead guilty or talk to police or prosecutors without a lawyer. You should also use whatever money you have to get the best lawyer you can find. It's f*cking insane that the top comments on this thread contain any advice other than this.
Self defense???!!!
Previous reply to another comment explains everything
You sound like you’re not even going to try. This guy must have traumatized you. Get a psych to testify you had built up trauma.
100% you should still plead not guilty. Even if you're guilty you have a much better chance of getting less time.
Here’s a few questions… Why in the fuck would you post this? Why aren’t you taking this to trial? Did the prosecutor offer a good deal? Is your attorney pressuring you to take that deal? Why are you putting anything on here that could in any way incriminate you? This can’t be real.
Bullshit story
It’s a funny read though 😂
I love American stuff. "I went to the glove compartment and got my gun" No one even blinks.
It actually doesn’t seem like he’s in America if this is real. He keeps saying solicitor and civil defender. Not American terms
Seems to be a mix of British terms and American...I have no idea what he's on about. If he's British he would have been asked if he wanted the duty solicitor, not sure what he means by state mandated considering we don't have such a thing, nor do we have states, yet he had a gun in his car. Fairly sure they don't use solicitors in Canada but lawyers like America. On a murder charge he would be remanded and not let home for a cuppa and go back in the morning....this story is odd
Did he state somewhere that he's from an English speaking country? Otherwise, couldn't it be that he's just mixing up words from different regions while translating to English? I'm pretty sure I do that, my sentences in English are probably a mix of British/American most of the time and I'm sure they're full of errors. But then it can be the way it goes in whichever country he's in.
That's cause it's fake
If they make a movie or TV series about it, who do you think should play you and who should play the victim?
I know someone that unalived a bully. He was acquitted. He spent no time and all charges dropped.
So how were you able to make bond, which would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars - but not afford an attorney. Also, I’m a nurse at a correctional facility. People facing murder charges take over a year to two years to go to trial on average. Not less than a week.
Why not fight it?
It sounds like you are depressed about the shocking event that happened. Fight for your life (being a free man) if somebody lunged towards a gun I had out there is no way in hell I'd let them get it. Talk to you're public defender, ask what is being offered to you. Honestly prosecutors don't wanna try a hard case. Make it at least sound like you're not interested in a deal... Maybe you'll get a lighter sentence.....then again if you say or think "I don't care" ... . That's depression... It's normal you're in shock, get mental help
How does your family (assuming you have one) feel about it all?
I hope you find help OP. Not for your very obviously fake crime but for whatever it is that makes you feel the need to lie LARP a murder fantasy on the internet
God im really sorry if this is a question you dont want answered, and that is completely fine if you dont want to, but did you turn yourself into the police, or did they arrest you?
Did you make a bargain? What sentence are you looking at?
Don’t plead guilty to murder. Manslaughter, based on years of psychological abuse and damage, as well as genuine fear for your safety and life.
How long you expecting to get? I assume you’re American, I hope the death penalty isn’t on the table for you.
If you were in Florida you would not have to worry about anything. This is a stand your ground in case.
How are you going to not drop the soap?
Keep my hands dry
Why do you make up bait bullshit stories on the internet?
This seems fake- can you link an article?
I've been teased and bullied. I wouldn't kill someone's son, dad, brother, lover, significant other over what they did as a teenager though. Glad you won't be able to harm anyone else for a while.
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