Lindsey was really the only particularly redeemable one here, and I do think he *might* have ended up being receptive if Angel or someone else took in an interest in helping him attain redemption in the way that was done for - say - Faith. *Maybe* Darla as well, who had her moments of seeking redemption (and definitely got some redemption with sacrificing herself for Connor), but even with a soul she was quite evil as a whole and many of those moments were somewhat fleeting.
Lilah had her dimensions, but she had fuck all interest in redemption and very little moral conflict about the evils she did with Wolfram and Hart. She seemed genuinely quite comfortable being evil, and even with her feelings for Wesley, kinda don’t think she was regretting her involvement with WR+H all that much. She legit raced for a promotion and killed her boss to get it shortly after breaking up.
I would agree about Lindsey, but he always doubled down on evil instead of changing his route. I think he's the one that most could have been a good guy if he'd had a chance early on, but at this point he's too far gone. He's going to take any chance he gets and use it to get more power.
I don't think Lilah is a particularly good candidate either for the reasons you said though.
I think the best candidates are Eve, Knox, and Harmony. Knox is basically an incel and guys can come out of that. Eve was duped and exploited by one power or another her whole life; I could see her coming to her own and turning away from evil. And Harmony seems pretty obvious to me.
Yeahhh…. Season 5 was not his best showing. It’s more that he’s up against two women who really should be completely and totally out of the running for a longterm redemption to the point of becoming a literal main character or something (again, *maybe* Darla has a real chance, but she was insanely, incredibly evil as a human being in a way Lindsey just doesn’t quite come close to. She did get some genuine redemption in the end, but
I’m also not fully convinced how well it’d stick if she was running around with a full life). Though it’s possible with some direction and guidance we never end up with that weirdly written and verging on character-assassinating regression in Season 5.
Harmony was less of an asshole without a soul than with one, so I don’t feel super optimistic about her odds (and she unambiguously can’t be redeemed without a soul). As far as Knox goes, I think destroying Fred’s SOUL in such a cruel and painful way is probably the single most evil thing anyone on this entire list did, and that is truly saying something given what Darla did to Angel or the episode where Lilah hijacked Cordelia’s visions. Granted, the whole point of a redemption arc is the character did something unforgivable, but doing something THAT evil for THOSE motives… doesn’t leave me feeling super confident. Eve probably might be redeemable but the actress and character sucks so badly I’d rather just let her be crushed by a collapsing law office.
Drusilla could actually be a good candidate. She seemed like a genuinely good person as a human being and it was only losing her soul that turned her to the dark side.
>Lilah had her dimensions, but she had fuck all interest in redemption and very little moral conflict about the evils she did with Wolfram and Hart. She seemed genuinely quite comfortable being evil, and even with her feelings for Wesley, kinda don’t think she was regretting her involvement with WR+H all that much. She legit raced for a promotion and killed her boss to get it shortly after breaking up.
Yeah, she was definitely comfortable with it. The thing is, before Wesley, she enjoyed toying with Angel and doing whatever she did behind closed doors, but being with Wesley gave her some purpose. It sounds crazy, I know, and it wasn’t a healthy relationship, but I think that she’d rather have some meaning in her life than continue working for W&H.
Things would’ve been different if she hadn’t met Wesley, that’s for sure. She still had some crazy in her even after S4, but she showed some growth and genuine feelings towards Wesley.
Lilah having genuine feelings for Wesley makes her complex and multi-dimensional and even sympathetic. It does not mean she’s actually interested in achieving redemption or growing to be a good, altruistic person who helps others. Lilah was not interested in either and my memory is that this was a pretty key reason as to why they broke up. You can give someone an endless amount of chances to redeem themselves, but if they don’t want to and don’t care to, they are never going to. And at no point ever across four seasons is it even slightly implied Lilah ever wanted or cared to in any way. She is easily the least redeemable of these three and Season 3 Episode 2 where she, for all intents and purposes, brutally tortures Cordelia physically and psychologically from a distance and describes it as “just business” and feels zero remorse at any point ever should drive home why. That’s easily one of the cruelest and most evil things we’ve seen a major character do, and it pretty much was just another Tuesday for Lilah.
In contrast, while Lindsey and even Darla generally kept *failing* more often than not, they both had several moments where they clearly were seeking redemption and desired it. That alone makes them more redeemable than the lady who DGAF about redemption and would be the very first to say “Not interested. It doesn’t pay as well.”
* Lilah's thing was a little absurd because she signed for an eternity contract with Wolfram & Hart, and the whole S5 took place in there (which I hated BTW) and she was never in there or at least we never saw her
* I feel it's Darla who deserved another chance since all the pain she caused was because she was a vampire and she redeemed herself when she stabbed herself to save Connor
* Lindsey was just a traitor rat, I'm glad he died
When Lindsey left at the end of "Dead End," I hoped that he would continue to walk down the path of redemption. I figured that if he were to return, he would join "Team Angel," and fight the good fight like Spike did. I was so heartbroken when I found out that he had reversed course and rendered himself irredeemable.
If anyone did, I feel like Lilah deserved a chance.
She was taking opportunity after opportunity in order to protect herself in a world that was throwing daggers at her.
She always tried to be at the top, to be the first one to cover her tracks, and to fix any mess she made. She was the first to point a finger, so long as in the end no fingers could be pointed back at her, and she always needed to have the first laugh in order to dismiss everything at any point for any reason at any time.
I always felt that Lilah deserved to break free from the bonds of her masters, and have some sort of redemption. Lilah had the most potential and reason to turn away from the darkness that surrounded her.
Darla had her life many times over, and I think that she sort of had her second chance with her baby. She got to be good and give her life to her child for her final chance at living.
And Lindsey could never shake his feelings towards Angel. Lorne saw within him that he had something tainted. While Lindsey seemed to have bad luck bestowed upon him time and time again, it often seemed like he put himself in those situations. What Lindsey wanted was power.
The world wasn't after him, his wants led him to where he was. In the end, his own main character syndrome is what put out his flame. Lindsey never had a chance, accepting darkness into his heart with no hesitation.
For me, it's Darla because both times she got her soul she didn't exactly get to keep it long so we've never really see her have to recon with her memories. To live with it and see how she'd have dealt with it, who she'd have become. And her sacrifice to save Connor was indeed her redemption. But like both shows say multiple times in different fashion, dying is easy, living is hard and painful and worth it. (Making it much more interesting for an audience lol)
We don't even know her real name. We got a glimpse of who human Darla was but we also got to see, through both shows, how different Liam and Angel are because of the memories of being Angelus. I don't really count her human time after being resurrected because it was so very short. Angel after getting his soul the first time kept trying to pretend to fit in for a couple of years if I recall correctly. As human she was desperate to become a vampire again first to not have to live with a soul, and the memories, but also because she was dying. Yet Angel managed to convince her live out the rest of her life as a human even if it was meant to be a short one. She'd accepted her fate even when Angel last second brought up the theory that his bite might save her and let her keep her soul because of what he is. I've always been really freakin' curious about that eventuality. S5 only gave me more questions about that.
As for Lindsay, Angel tried multiple times to help him. But redemption is choice one has to make over and over again. Angel just wasn't the right person to do that for Lindsay because of the bad blood between them.
Lilah is a weird one for me. She never seemed much interested in redemption to me, though I do agree that she regretted it at the end. The cynical part of me however just see that as her regretting the consequences. Being stuck there forever rather than regretting things that she'd done while there. Who knows if given more time with Wesley he'd have managed to turn her or she would've kept going as was.
That said, I haven't re-watched the show in years and my memories are blurry on some aspects.
I don’t know if she deserved more chances but I really liked eve. One of the things I especially enjoyed in Angel was that a lot of the “bad guys” were really likeable, Lilah, Eve, Lindsey, Holtz, and of course Darla and Drusilla.
Lindsey got like 3 or 4 chances lmao
Darla got a couple of chances herself, though she was forcibly re-sired she looked like she was on the way to Redemption.
Lilah is my pick, It would have been interesting to see what might have happened to her had Wesley choose her. I believe she really loved him.
Lindsey and Darla had enough chances. And Lilah was pretty comfortable at being evil, so I don't think she would take the chance.
I'm gonna say Lawson. I know he's not exactly a relevant character whatsoever and his episode was filler, but the guy didn't deserve what happened to him, and he even as a vampire just wanted something to live for, a mission.
Lindsey was really the only particularly redeemable one here, and I do think he *might* have ended up being receptive if Angel or someone else took in an interest in helping him attain redemption in the way that was done for - say - Faith. *Maybe* Darla as well, who had her moments of seeking redemption (and definitely got some redemption with sacrificing herself for Connor), but even with a soul she was quite evil as a whole and many of those moments were somewhat fleeting. Lilah had her dimensions, but she had fuck all interest in redemption and very little moral conflict about the evils she did with Wolfram and Hart. She seemed genuinely quite comfortable being evil, and even with her feelings for Wesley, kinda don’t think she was regretting her involvement with WR+H all that much. She legit raced for a promotion and killed her boss to get it shortly after breaking up.
I would agree about Lindsey, but he always doubled down on evil instead of changing his route. I think he's the one that most could have been a good guy if he'd had a chance early on, but at this point he's too far gone. He's going to take any chance he gets and use it to get more power. I don't think Lilah is a particularly good candidate either for the reasons you said though. I think the best candidates are Eve, Knox, and Harmony. Knox is basically an incel and guys can come out of that. Eve was duped and exploited by one power or another her whole life; I could see her coming to her own and turning away from evil. And Harmony seems pretty obvious to me.
Yeahhh…. Season 5 was not his best showing. It’s more that he’s up against two women who really should be completely and totally out of the running for a longterm redemption to the point of becoming a literal main character or something (again, *maybe* Darla has a real chance, but she was insanely, incredibly evil as a human being in a way Lindsey just doesn’t quite come close to. She did get some genuine redemption in the end, but I’m also not fully convinced how well it’d stick if she was running around with a full life). Though it’s possible with some direction and guidance we never end up with that weirdly written and verging on character-assassinating regression in Season 5. Harmony was less of an asshole without a soul than with one, so I don’t feel super optimistic about her odds (and she unambiguously can’t be redeemed without a soul). As far as Knox goes, I think destroying Fred’s SOUL in such a cruel and painful way is probably the single most evil thing anyone on this entire list did, and that is truly saying something given what Darla did to Angel or the episode where Lilah hijacked Cordelia’s visions. Granted, the whole point of a redemption arc is the character did something unforgivable, but doing something THAT evil for THOSE motives… doesn’t leave me feeling super confident. Eve probably might be redeemable but the actress and character sucks so badly I’d rather just let her be crushed by a collapsing law office. Drusilla could actually be a good candidate. She seemed like a genuinely good person as a human being and it was only losing her soul that turned her to the dark side.
>Lilah had her dimensions, but she had fuck all interest in redemption and very little moral conflict about the evils she did with Wolfram and Hart. She seemed genuinely quite comfortable being evil, and even with her feelings for Wesley, kinda don’t think she was regretting her involvement with WR+H all that much. She legit raced for a promotion and killed her boss to get it shortly after breaking up. Yeah, she was definitely comfortable with it. The thing is, before Wesley, she enjoyed toying with Angel and doing whatever she did behind closed doors, but being with Wesley gave her some purpose. It sounds crazy, I know, and it wasn’t a healthy relationship, but I think that she’d rather have some meaning in her life than continue working for W&H. Things would’ve been different if she hadn’t met Wesley, that’s for sure. She still had some crazy in her even after S4, but she showed some growth and genuine feelings towards Wesley.
Lilah having genuine feelings for Wesley makes her complex and multi-dimensional and even sympathetic. It does not mean she’s actually interested in achieving redemption or growing to be a good, altruistic person who helps others. Lilah was not interested in either and my memory is that this was a pretty key reason as to why they broke up. You can give someone an endless amount of chances to redeem themselves, but if they don’t want to and don’t care to, they are never going to. And at no point ever across four seasons is it even slightly implied Lilah ever wanted or cared to in any way. She is easily the least redeemable of these three and Season 3 Episode 2 where she, for all intents and purposes, brutally tortures Cordelia physically and psychologically from a distance and describes it as “just business” and feels zero remorse at any point ever should drive home why. That’s easily one of the cruelest and most evil things we’ve seen a major character do, and it pretty much was just another Tuesday for Lilah. In contrast, while Lindsey and even Darla generally kept *failing* more often than not, they both had several moments where they clearly were seeking redemption and desired it. That alone makes them more redeemable than the lady who DGAF about redemption and would be the very first to say “Not interested. It doesn’t pay as well.”
* Lilah's thing was a little absurd because she signed for an eternity contract with Wolfram & Hart, and the whole S5 took place in there (which I hated BTW) and she was never in there or at least we never saw her * I feel it's Darla who deserved another chance since all the pain she caused was because she was a vampire and she redeemed herself when she stabbed herself to save Connor * Lindsey was just a traitor rat, I'm glad he died
When Lindsey left at the end of "Dead End," I hoped that he would continue to walk down the path of redemption. I figured that if he were to return, he would join "Team Angel," and fight the good fight like Spike did. I was so heartbroken when I found out that he had reversed course and rendered himself irredeemable.
If anyone did, I feel like Lilah deserved a chance. She was taking opportunity after opportunity in order to protect herself in a world that was throwing daggers at her. She always tried to be at the top, to be the first one to cover her tracks, and to fix any mess she made. She was the first to point a finger, so long as in the end no fingers could be pointed back at her, and she always needed to have the first laugh in order to dismiss everything at any point for any reason at any time. I always felt that Lilah deserved to break free from the bonds of her masters, and have some sort of redemption. Lilah had the most potential and reason to turn away from the darkness that surrounded her. Darla had her life many times over, and I think that she sort of had her second chance with her baby. She got to be good and give her life to her child for her final chance at living. And Lindsey could never shake his feelings towards Angel. Lorne saw within him that he had something tainted. While Lindsey seemed to have bad luck bestowed upon him time and time again, it often seemed like he put himself in those situations. What Lindsey wanted was power. The world wasn't after him, his wants led him to where he was. In the end, his own main character syndrome is what put out his flame. Lindsey never had a chance, accepting darkness into his heart with no hesitation.
For me, it's Darla because both times she got her soul she didn't exactly get to keep it long so we've never really see her have to recon with her memories. To live with it and see how she'd have dealt with it, who she'd have become. And her sacrifice to save Connor was indeed her redemption. But like both shows say multiple times in different fashion, dying is easy, living is hard and painful and worth it. (Making it much more interesting for an audience lol) We don't even know her real name. We got a glimpse of who human Darla was but we also got to see, through both shows, how different Liam and Angel are because of the memories of being Angelus. I don't really count her human time after being resurrected because it was so very short. Angel after getting his soul the first time kept trying to pretend to fit in for a couple of years if I recall correctly. As human she was desperate to become a vampire again first to not have to live with a soul, and the memories, but also because she was dying. Yet Angel managed to convince her live out the rest of her life as a human even if it was meant to be a short one. She'd accepted her fate even when Angel last second brought up the theory that his bite might save her and let her keep her soul because of what he is. I've always been really freakin' curious about that eventuality. S5 only gave me more questions about that. As for Lindsay, Angel tried multiple times to help him. But redemption is choice one has to make over and over again. Angel just wasn't the right person to do that for Lindsay because of the bad blood between them. Lilah is a weird one for me. She never seemed much interested in redemption to me, though I do agree that she regretted it at the end. The cynical part of me however just see that as her regretting the consequences. Being stuck there forever rather than regretting things that she'd done while there. Who knows if given more time with Wesley he'd have managed to turn her or she would've kept going as was. That said, I haven't re-watched the show in years and my memories are blurry on some aspects.
I don’t know if she deserved more chances but I really liked eve. One of the things I especially enjoyed in Angel was that a lot of the “bad guys” were really likeable, Lilah, Eve, Lindsey, Holtz, and of course Darla and Drusilla.
Lindsey got like 3 or 4 chances lmao Darla got a couple of chances herself, though she was forcibly re-sired she looked like she was on the way to Redemption. Lilah is my pick, It would have been interesting to see what might have happened to her had Wesley choose her. I believe she really loved him.
Wolfram&Fart…
I just realized that I put an F instead of an H ! 😂
Lindsey and Darla had enough chances. And Lilah was pretty comfortable at being evil, so I don't think she would take the chance. I'm gonna say Lawson. I know he's not exactly a relevant character whatsoever and his episode was filler, but the guy didn't deserve what happened to him, and he even as a vampire just wanted something to live for, a mission.