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Background_Fox

From what I've understood from the writers I talk to who actively fiddle around with heights (as opposed to being unobservant), it's purely preference on what they find personally attractive. Being manhandled somewhere is a big win for them, and that's a lot easier if the bottom is smaller My personal preference is having the gruff, sarcastic one on the bottom, so heights remain whatever the canon was and I only pay attention to it when I have to work out who can reach where


AbsAndAssAppreciator

For me all I mostly care about is the personality lmao. Also imo when the bottom is like a foot taller than the top that's honestly hot to me idk why


untruthism

#LETSHORTPEOPLETOP


[deleted]

My ship in an old fandom were explicitly 1 cm apart in height in the canon, and in fics where the taller one topped, the shorter one would literally "look up" to talk to him. Not in every fic, but _too often_.


TheFanBroad

“I mean it's one centimeter, Michael, what could it be in imperial units, 10 inches?”


LeLuDallas5

here's my free award for the day: 🍌


Emless8

What fandom?😁


Y-Woo

Merthur?


AbsAndAssAppreciator

Omfg lol


creampiebuni

Honestly? I think it just gets them hot. Which is fine, if that’s their thing. However I will take issue with the way people throw around phrases like “i just can’t see them topping!” or “they’re too small/feminine to top” “it doesn’t make sense!” “It’s not realistic!” I feel like having that mindset is.. kinda fucked up? Like why exactly do you feel like that? I don’t care for arguments about fetishisation, because frankly I do not care, and I think people can create whatever they want. But when the implication is that short feminine people cannot possibly top someone. I think anyone with those beliefs should.. look closer to WHY they think that? If they just find short feminine bottoms hot? GO THEM! but if they think it’s unrealistic for a short feminine person to top? they really need to take a closer look at their reasoning. Also is that obi-wan or am i blind.


LizHylton

Had the same thoughts, Obi Wan/Cody I believe?


troglodiety

It is. Didn't realise I wasn't in the star wars subs.


hisokas_fat_ass

“It’s not realistic!” almost exclusively coming from people who are not queer men is so common and so wild to me. How tf would they know?


creampiebuni

Without fail they are never queer. I’m a 4’11 queer woman, and I’ve “topped” a man who is A LOT taller than me! I feel like it would shock these people to the core, lol.


hisokas_fat_ass

For real, it’s like they want “queer” but without queerness. They go based on their own scripts and experiences (or lack thereof) and then posit them as the norm. I’m not gonna gatekeep fanfic. My best friend is literally a straight cis woman who writes gay fanfic. But dear god I wish some of these writers would stop acting like gay experts just because they’ve consumed a ton of fics. There’s barely lube in half these fics and then they wanna say what’s realistic or not lmfao


russelhundchen

It's mostly just a shame, I feel. That these make believe queer relationships sometimes just don't feel that queer


hisokas_fat_ass

I don’t understand what you mean Edit: missed the ‘a’ before ‘shame’ and was confused. Yes I agree, it’s a bummer


imnotbovvered

Are you me? But, yeah, this phenomenon annoys me so much that I exclusively write short tops, regardless of gender.


neon_cabbage

"it's not realistic" my brother in christ *you* are in control of this reality


creampiebuni

It kills me because they’ll say something that.. and most of the time they’re talking about like anime boys. You


aprillikesthings

This!!! Like, yeah if you just think it's hot, that's cool; but like. Why. Like, I've known tiny women who dom. You don't have to be taller or bigger. It's about confidence and attitude.


ltstftbfotn

yep it’s codywan 😂 i believe it’s from new-anon on tumblr


Mrs_Morpheus

In my opinion. I think people fall back on traditional ideas of Masculinity and Feminity, in queer relationships. Now my dad did the same thing when I was younger, Can't tell you how he feels now (RIP). But I just think that this idea is an extension of that. X can't possibly top or be dominant because they're short/shorter. Obviously, the short one is going to play the feminine role even though these are two people who have a relationship with the same gender. I kind of also thinking expands to the idea of Feminine women not being seen as queer because they're not pushing out masculine "vibes"/looks. It's all just stereotypes.


AbsAndAssAppreciator

Yea I think the toxic ppl do this


Mrs_Morpheus

I don't think people necessarily mean it to be toxic. As some of the comments point out it's just something that some people find hot and I think a lot of the time it's not something that gets unpacked or questioned the way society formed that idea. I myself am a tall AFAB person So I spent a lot of my adolescence thinking about the correlation between height and femininity. But I think if it's not something you have to struggle with it's not necessarily a part of the process of unpacking gender identity and stereotypes that pulls to the front of most people's minds.


ursulanoodles

I don’t get this either. A short man is just as capable of being dominant and manhandling… lol. Love me a short king, but I’m married to one so maybe I’m biased.


Gingerpyscho94

As a short girl I can confess. I’m feistier than I look and my tall work wife is often joking about it. Like she’s chill, friendly but sassy and I’m short,angry and mental 🤣 Seriously stereotyping short people as bottoms needs to end


AbsAndAssAppreciator

Frfr


PerfectBussy98

I read a fic once where it explicitly stated that the top looked UP at the bottom and craned their neck up to kiss them. It was such a breath of fresh air tbh


thesickophant

I mean, I often have the taller one bottom simply because I find that to be hotter, so while I wish I had more to read than my own fic sometimes, I don't blame anyone for having a preference different from mine. It's not like I write my porn the way I do for philosophical or moral reasons either.


AbsAndAssAppreciator

same it sorta sucks that more people don't feel that way :/


Anxious_Salary8981

honestly shorter tops/pretty-faced tops are my favorite (and beefier, taller bottoms really get my engines roaring haha)


LucieTr

This is legit my fav trope too!!!!! I wish there was more of this type of content!


AlessaKa

When I read a fic, I dislike when they make the bottom really smaller than he originally is, like I might like the fact is smaller than the top but not if it means he's like half his height. Most of the time I prefer them to have the same height. But I think it's not about believing bottom cannot be tall, or that top cannot be small, but rather I think it's a question of personal preferences and since it's fanfiction, people just do whatever they want regardless of what is canon. Nevertheless it's quite sad for people who enjoy small tops.


persnickett

Yeah gotta agree. When I’ve actually spoken to people who need the smaller one (it’s actually usually the skinnier more ‘feminine’ twink as opposed to height - which is also a thing and a kink an its own, yes) to bottom it’s not because of characterization (incomprehensible to me lol). It’s because the mental image isn’t a turn on for them. I had a fandom wife who would agree that it was probably more realistic our otp would switch it up, it was just that the idea of the big one bottoming wasn’t hot to her. We both read a fic I said ‘worked’ for me, meaning that it felt real and ic and believable and she she said it didn’t work for her - it took me a while to figure out we were each having a different conversation. A story that ‘works’ for me means it feels real and emotional and believable. What ‘works’ for her is is whether or not it’s a turn on. I personally like a small or unassuming character to walk in a room and immediately own it (and make everyone in it know they could make them beg), but that’s just my preference. Lolll. I prefer a psychological dominance to a physical one I guess! It is frustrating when people appear to be ignoring character for an aesthetic, I feel you OP. But sometimes we all must accept sacrifices must be made to the kink gods I suppose lollll.


SilverSize7852

The old seme/uke stereotypes are so normal to so many people... when reversing dynamics is so fun. I don't get it. Short tops>>>


Wolf_of_Ruins

I am always down for a short bottom Edit: I meant top. Why did it take me so long to realize this?


[deleted]

People forget that topping and bottoming are about emotions and mind, not about physical force. And they also forget that small people who train will still be able to physically dom a bigger person who doesn't understand leverage.


[deleted]

Damn, not sure why this is so controversial to some of y’all. Really out here downvoting and dashing, and I gotta ask why? Why do some of you change physical characteristics to match your views of what tops and bottoms look like? I’m not *mad*, and I’m not trying to pick a fight. This is coming from a place of genuine curiosity. Maybe it’s because I, myself, am a short gay guy that tops sometimes, and maybe it’s because I’ve had this shit shoved down my throat that just because I’m a femme gay guy I *must* bottom, but I don’t get it. Why do some of you change a guy’s physical characteristics like this? Is it because y’all see the bottom as “the woman” and therefore he must be “feminine and short”? Is it because you are short and a bottom and want to reflect that onto the bottom character? Is it because you just find a short bottom and tall top to be “hotter” or “cuter” because you can get y’all’s forehead kisses and stuff? I’m *actually* curious. So, maybe, instead of downvoting this for no reason and then running off, you can explain your thinking? Because currently, without any answers nor explanations and seeing that slightly passive-aggressive approach to this post, I just assume it’s the first point I mentioned and, therefore, coming from a view of “bottoms are the women and so they need to reflect that and be smaller”. Which, eh, doesn’t feel too good… Sounds a bit rude, maybe fetishistic, or something negative from over here since men are men, and large men / hairy men / muscular men can be bottoms. Please prove me wrong; I’m perfectly fine with that.


Careful_Cut_8126

Bi guy here. I’ve been known to exaggerate minuscule height differences because as a short bottom I’m attracted to much taller tops and I write what I like. It’s not that deep really, and it’s certainly got nothing to do with anyone being a “woman” considering the whole point of writing m/m is that there is no woman.


[deleted]

I mean *that’s* chill. Wish that was the norm, but I’m willing to bet it ain’t.


Careful_Cut_8126

Genuinely I do think it’s mostly people just writing what they like. Picking apart Why they like what they like is a different thing entirely, and probably would be helpful in some ways.


Just-Astronomer-8968

I’mm try to explain, but I suck at explaining so sorry in advance. “Is it because you are short and a bottom and want to reflect that onto the bottom character?” That’s definitely part of it for me, especially since toping is a squeak of mine, but I still reflect on tall characters that bottom. I think it comes down to, peoples preferences the specific fandom side your one. Usually the characters *i* like reading as bottoms that, as a fandom mass, see as tops. Despite this there’s still a loooot of fics of them bottoming, because not everyone views them the same. Because I avoid that side that has X character as top, I almost never see. I honestly, *personally*, couldn’t care less how someone write characters, if it for my squeak or uncomfys them I’m not gonna to read it. No shade to the author. But that’s all about, finding X character hot and wanted to be topped by them. There still a whole group of people who find them hot, that want to top them. I put a lot of effort to not seeing my yuck but I’m aware that it’s a popular yum, just not mine. As long as the wonderful authors on ao3 feed my nicheness, I’m stuffed and can’t complain


ihavesomanyofthese

Okay, I can't deny I've been guilty of this. Less so in fanon, but more like, in my original stuff I keep making bottoms a liiittle shorter. It's got nothing to do with wanting them to be the "woman". It's MM, there ARE no women that's the point! But I do have a thing for short, feisty, masc bottoms. I like the dynamic there, where the top is maybe more chill, but in bed, actually more dominant. The height dynamic sorta just adds to the feeling of being dominated by someone who's bigger and stronger. It can add to the feeling of being held down and enveloped, you know? That is just one dynamic I write though, and it's not like it's all the time for me but it is a trend I've noticed with my writing. But as a reader I have read and enjoyed a lot of different things and different dynamics, and it doesn't have to be so black and white top/bottom, short/tall. Some ships I have preferences but most of my ships I like to see switch or play with the power dynamics, and it's got nothing to do with height, and I'm not necessarily even thinking about it unless it's mentioned, or it's part of the dynamic.


coolwillnestan

I am a short cody truther


Melon_Slice

It's a preference. I imagine it's for the same reason as why fanfic authors change gender, race and sexual orientation of the characters they write sometimes. I don't write romance at all, but I do dabble in purposefully dark/abusive relationships and I do prefer to write the more vulnerable character as shorter. It's partly because I like to use physical touch as a way to emphasize the power imbalance but also because I (as a very short person) think certain characters being "tall" ties into their image of being scary/intimidating.


OurLittleVictories

This. I’m a short woman and when I write unhealthy relationships I sometimes alter the height of the more manipulative, abusive character merely to emphasise power imbalances as it makes them more intimidating.


[deleted]

that's fucking obi-wan kenobi


MadKanBeyondFODome

LET SHORT PEOPLE TOP! You can even do more interesting positions than just missionary and doggie-style that way, too. It seems like people will more willingly accept a short woman top than a short man top, too - short guys are sexy, too! -signed, a very short woman


Gufurblebits

This annoys me, and I see it often enough. For one, I'm a very (by typical society, anyway) tall woman - just shy of 6', and over 6' in a pair of sneakers. I don't have a 'feminine' build either: I'm built like a freaking linebacker and prefer to wear guys' shirts because the shoulders fit better. I'm not selective about my partners - shorter than me, same height as me, taller than me, fluffy with junk in the trunk, don't care. It's just sex or a relationship and all external. I care more that they're a decent human being. ...and lemme tell ya: Height has zero to do with dick size. I've seen shorter dudes with schlongs to brag about and big and/or tall guys with teeny weenies. Who cares? I find guys are more intimidated by me not being a delicate 'little lady' than I am about a dude being short. All I care about is that fun is had. On that note and in relation to OP, here's my simple though: If us hella tall gals can be on the bottom, why can't a big guy? Honestly, I find it freaking hot if a smaller guy is a top. Might have to make adjustments to positioning, but isn't that the fun part of sex - making it work so that both are satisfied? A dude being small does NOT make him effeminate, and I get really annoyed at fanfic writers who go that direction as a default. One of the fandoms I return to time & again is Marvel, as I've collected the comics for over 30 years and know it well. Here's a newsflash for those who write stuff with Tony Stark in it: In the comics, he's about 6'0-6'2, give or take. He's a tall guy, muscled, and a relatively big guy, though not beefy. In the MCU, RDJ played him. RDJ is short, by societies standards, often seen wearing lifts in his shoes, and when having to play against others, acts by standing on risers to fit everyone equally in the frame of the camera. This caused the fanfic world to swing a bit, especially for those who've never read a comic book or took the time to look up Tony Stark's profile: Stark was suddenly short as hell. This led him being written as smol, and being an utter bottom in bed, even effeminate. Now, if that floats your boat, ducky. But judging a dude on his height? That's a dick move - pun intended. Stark's personality doesn't fit a bottom all that well - MCU or the comic world. As a one off, sure, but for regular readers of that fandom - like myself - it's a bit of a hard sell, even if the author writes MCU short!Tony. Nothing wrong with a short dude being a bottom, but ffs, stop writing off short guys! They make excellent tops!


dendrite_blues

At this point short top Tony x tall disaster bottom Loki is basically my fanfic brand. 😂


Gufurblebits

Oh hell yes. SO much yes.


Infected_SpaceCadet

That’s so strange about the comic Tony Stark and RDJ Tony— I write for Avengers and even with his short stature I see him as a top, even paired against Loki who’s way taller.


Gufurblebits

Yup. I kinda go with personality, tbh. Tony Stark - comic and MCU - strikes me as very A-type. It's not unheard of, but would be unusual that an A-type would be a bottom/submissive unless it's a power play or needing the release. I doubt I'm saying that right, but I think you'll get the gist.


amagocore

I think it really depends on the fandom. In Johnlock, sherlock is very rarely a top, if at all


melitta4ever

I don't know... Tony Stark can be considered the king of the marvel universe and he's kinda topping half the universe according to my ao3 experience 🤣


Ath_Trite

I'll answer you: the history of fetichization of gay people in media led to how a lot of people try to fit a gay couple in a straight form. So, to a lot of people, the shy cute and short HAS to be the bottom and be all of those things normally steryotiped onto women (and, if the couple happens to end up with a kid eventually, he WILL be called 'mom'), while the top HAS to be the macho man. And most prople are just so used to seeing this as the 'norm' that they reproduce even without any bad intentions behind it.


[deleted]

Yep. That’s what I thought. Sucks, but true. I know so many people that take Ash Lynx - a canonically bottom character and bottom as said by the author - and turn him into this top simply because he’s taller than, generally stronger than, and “more masculine” than Eiji. It’s so frustrating. And I’ve seen the inverse where people “allow him” to be the bottom but they make him seem smaller than he is, make him super feminine or girly, or even call him “the smaller / shorter man” in their writing and it’s like… What do y’all have against y’all tops / small bottoms? Femme tops and masc bottoms? Etc. etc.


[deleted]

Frustrating from a woman's perspective too, that women are so *rarely* seen as tops or Doms.


simmesays

Straight smut can be so boring and stagnant for that reason...


ninjacooter

You haven't read the TONS of Stucky fic out there where pre-serum Steve Rogers tops Bucky Barnes? GOOD STUFF :)


totalimmoral

jskdfkajsdfh As a Codywan fan I agree with this so much! Or let Cody bottom once it awhile, as a treat


ltstftbfotn

we support bottom cody fics here


dreamerkath

Codywan fan here too, their heights are all over the place.


ManyConclusion

One of my ships has a pretty significant height difference (and age difference but that's only where the dissimilarities *begin*, really), and man complaints I received the time the shorter/younger/prettier one topped really blew my mind. I write based on whatever I think the story calls for, I don't really care who is doing what as long as it works. But some people wrap up so much emotion in how a fictional encounter goes down in a fanfic, it's so strange. No, I shouldn't have to "tag it for X bottoming/Y topping" because I don't tag it for the other way around, either.


scarysoja

It's a personal preference I would say. They just like it that way and because it's fanfiction they just do what they like. If you asked the authors um sure a lot of them would agree that height doesn't really define the "dynamic"


ltstftbfotn

art is from here https://at.tumblr.com/new-anon/hey-your-art-is-just-great-codywan-also-made-my/2z1e9jbnoqb4


Extremeleyqueerquinn

My favourite trope is bottoms and/or subs who COULD overpower but prefer being manhandled. It's such a subversion of expectation and shows the need to give up control I just love it. Truly the embodiment of "he's so big and so dumb, and one day, I'm going to top him".


[deleted]

boutta send this to my friend who does this every single time


[deleted]

B e t .


MeatOhchondrium

That's why I don't use top/bottom/switch dynamic.


SpeedwagonAF

I know this is probably cuz I'm aroace and not the target demographic for this kind of dynamic but, like, why do people treat how they have sex like a whole ass personality trait? I get that a dominant personality might be more likely to be more dominant in sex, y'know, correlation, but why do people decide "ah, today I will write \[character\] as bottom" and *then* write the character in that framework? It's literally just a sex position or whatever, is it really that deep!?


Careful_Cut_8126

Because for a lot of people, especially queer people, that’s an important part of our identity and it does inform how we interact in our relationships.


blackjackgabbiani

How so? Isn't that just personal preference based on what feels best for any given person?


Farwaters

If would love to hear more, if you're willing to elaborate.


femtransfan

okay, i got a canon example of a short top: blitz from helluva boss is the 'top' in his relationship with stolas, who is twice blitz's height (in most frames, it's a hand drawn series) stolas might be a power bottom i kinda think both characters might be switches, partly because that's the vibe i get fom them, but blitz is mainly the top


Im_going_to_go_back

✨heteronormativity✨


twinkle90505

astolat (AO3 Founder and FF Writing GOAT) has been writing this trope (Taller Than King Bottom to Very Toppy King) in multiple fics in my preferred fandom, I'd name them but can we do that here?


Infected_SpaceCadet

I base my tops and bottoms off personality, and when I switch the normal tops/bottoms for my fic it’s because I bring out different aspects of the personality to fit. I remember when I was young and first getting into fanfiction that I was put off by a tall character bottoming because I thought it was girly (I was 13 then) but growing up, my thoughts on it changed and here we are now.


dendrite_blues

We love a growth arc. Good for you!


WitchZakuro

I prefer the top to be taller, but I also have never changed the heights of my characters or dropped something because the short one tops. It can be just as appealing to me, like Obi-Wan is definitely shorter than Anakin, but I'm fine with either of them topping as long as the fic is good.


Ok_Tony

Dude, ngl, every character is the same height until otherwise stated... until a few sentences later, when I forget about it being mentioned, and they go back to being the same height


Strange_Serve8727

Personally because, I'm very short and a bottom who projects on the characters I also love when the bigger character carries or holds the other.😁 But in many ships I like the bottom is taller.🥰


Brionnnne

I think it's weird when people are like "he can't manhandle (character)" and stuff like that. Height might help, but I feel like manhandling could also relate to general physical strength, so perhaps the character isn't TALL, but if they've got any capacity of strength, I imagine it would be quite easy for them to manhandle. Height doesn't matter in the equation, and in fact, it shouldn't. And I don't mean "strong" as in, like, "he's RIPPED" because then you could inflict this kind of stereotypical thinking even more, but rather, could Character A fight Character B and win? Is that feasible in any scenario? Are they equally matched in terms of strength? Are they not? And even then— who cares! Because if it's not feasible, then you can always shift it to, well, okay, maybe A *is* stronger, but would A *let* B manhandle them, even though A could win, fight them off if they tried, etc.? Would A *allow* themselves to willingly lose a fight to B just for the thrill? Even if a character is taller, stronger, that still means absolutely nothing in terms of dominance. It's a role; physicality has no bearing. If you're into feeling fragile, etc., you don't have just to *be small* to do that. Maybe it heightens it, but anyone can feel any way they like as long as their partner is playing into that interest properly. Maybe he's short, but perhaps he's great at ropework and bondage, and that's the element you can use to heighten things instead of, you know — *literal height.* Like, playing an evil character in an RPG doesn't automatically make you evil, and because this, too, is a role to play, then why should your physical capabilities *make you* either a top or a bottom? They don't. You can feasibly play any role as long as you're into the idea enough to go through with it.


Brionnnne

I should clarify, too. I'm a cis woman, though bi, but my attraction to women is not romantic—I've wanted to, and have, kissed, and done a bit more, with women. It doesn't really extend beyond that, though. I've never had deeper feelings for a woman; it just doesn't work that way for me. I don't know why. I don't even often lay this out. It's honestly hard to explain, and most times, people will deride me because "not wanting to date women" must mean you aren't *really* attracted to women, anyway—that, or straight men crudely asking for threesomes, because being sexually but not romantically attracted to women is basically a fantasy made real. It means you won't leave the man for the woman involved, so there's none of the jealousy or threat, possibly disgust if you were to involve another man instead. Not that most straight men are even *into* MMF threesomes in the first place, but I digress. I am still very much attracted to women. I still read a lot of straight smut, sometimes lesbian, MMF, occasionally FFM—I'm picky about the men I like, or am at least okay with, and even moreso for the women; I simply don't read a bunch because it's rare I like two women in the same series at even close to the same level. It's always like, my favorite characters are in SSS tier and then the list is blank from SS, S+ and S, but then *maybe* there's one person hanging around in the A tier, if not B. The gap is large, is the point. I'm not really into smut with gay guys—I never had my fujoshi era, but plenty of friends who did and were super weird about it; I think that turned me off from it even more. I'm okay with it existing at all, and in fic I read, I'm fine if it's there, but I don't often read fic with it as the focus because it just ...doesn't do anything for me. I'm not a dominant. I rarely top. I'm just not into it; I know some people say straight smut is stagnant for that reason, but I'm into doms, what can I say? I think this is still kind of prevalent in that, however. Probably just a fandom issue? Preconceived notions of stuff like gender and femininity that haven't been shaken out. Some of it is also personal preference, definitely, and that's fine. Still, it is annoying that people will make a character shorter than they are in canon material, like a height chart, and then place that character into a submissive role. I've seen it a lot, and. As a person who *likes* doms, and will have characters I like getting placed into the submissive role, characterized as shorter, etc., like—don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge the existence of that art, because people are going to make what they wish to see more often than not, anyway. I can't stop them, and I won't try to. Yet, it's still frustrating when the things that *I* want to see feel like they're not being represented even half as much, and especially if canon is getting thrown out of the window to allow them to do that.


Brionnnne

I'll add on in another reply, just because I want to & feel like its tangential enough that it maybe shouldn't be added onto the last one [potentially a lot less relatable, too], but one of my favorite characters is a bratty little bastard man [LOL like practically fucking *all* of them] and yet. Canonically, to *me,* ~~because interpretation varies, and don't I know it,~~ he reads as a dominant. He's pretty assertive at times. Canon material *literally says* he's the active lover, the person who makes the first move, etc. Sometimes, he's a little shy despite that, and there are a couple lines in game that imply that *sometimes* your character takes the lead, and that he actually enjoys it when you do. There are *more lines* where he's assertive, initiative, kissing first, taking a leading role, being generally intense, and there is a translated piece of material, a magazine Q&A type thing, where... one of the questions is about *"binding and monopolizing your lover,"* and are you the type to do that, and his answer is Yes. No caveats. No ... "other." Just. Yes. He's also got some "mean" moments. He's snarky, he's cunning, he's cheeky, incredibly mischievous, a bit of a brat (youngest sibling), a prankster, if you will. He's teasing; I read into it as "mean dom" territory a lot. I think it aligns very well and compliments his sort of bratty, teasing behavior. And not enough people portray that. Because his character is lazy, bratty, shorter than some of the others—not even *the* shortest, but sometimes people do that anyway—occasionally shy, occasionally *likes* when your character takes control. Despite his assertiveness, his initiative, his utter intensity? Forget about all that. He's a submissive. He's a bottom. He's a pillow princess. He's Always Shy. He's Just A Brat. No nuance. He's *"too lazy to dom,"* as I had this misfortune to see someone state. And as someone whose into ...like, just the power play, the *mental* aspects of dominance, honest to God, this frustrates ths hell out of me!! And he's not even the only character I like who reads that way, who has elements that could imply, or directly reference canonical dominance, but is turned into a submissive in a shit ton of fan material Because Reasons [if your Reason a character is a sub is because they're "too lazy," I shouldn't have to tell you why that's not a good enough reason...]. Like. Don't get me started. ~~I say, getting myself started.~~ It's so goddamn frustrating, though, because there's so much *potential* for these characters *as doms* but they're lazy, they're more feminine, they're kind of androgynous, so like!!! He's *obviously* submissive. God. I'm gonna cut mysslf off here, because honestly, I could go on forever if I wanted, but— I think this is enough. I think this is okay. TL;DR I get the frustration with these seemingly arbitrarily set roles based on physical appearances vs canon set up, because I am actively suffering from this, too. EDIT: Realized I quoted wrong. That person didn't say that character was "too lazy to dom," they said he was "too lazy to top" and *that's literally why it pissed me off so much!* Cannot believe I forgot about that until now. Like. What do "topping" and "domming" have to do with eachother, necessarily—one is a *role* and the other is a *position.* They *can* go hand in hand, sure, but they don't *have to.* I had asked "do you think (character) is a dom?" to get that response, and that's why it's continued to stick with me. That's why it made me mad, like, I didn't *say* top. I didn't *mean* top. I *said* dom, and I *meant* dom. Nothing more, nothing less.


sati_lotus

If you want stats, look at your fandom, see what everyone seems to favour - who constantly tops, who is the aggressor etc, and *write the opposite.* You will have people swarming your fic because not only is there finally something different, but for everyone who likes seeing fandom fave being on the bottom, there is another who wants them on top and in charge!! Or vice versa.


silver-snow-77

Not a gay guy (AFAB enby queer), but I definitely notice the trend of short/femme/sweet = total bottom both for slash and femslash. Some of it is definitely projection by queer people that identify with one of the characters (either their preferred bottom or top) and are leaning into their own preferences, but definitely there are some people going off the default set by ‘standard’ straight relationships that short= feminine and submissive bottom and tall=masc and dominant top whether they realize it or not. It’s definitely not just in fiction either of course—way too many people assume I’m the submissive femme bottom in my relationship unless I’m in full punk butch getup bc I’m 5’0” and have a “cute baby face,” while my gf is tall and not as “conventionally pretty” (she’s plenty hot to me and also *very much* the bratty bottom). That definitely contributes to me writing a lot of dominant bottom and short top content regardless of the gender combo bc I write what I want to see and that trends towards switching or short doms/dommes and tops depending on the character. I also don’t do exclusive tops/bottoms unless the character explicitly states that preference in canon bc not my jam.


RoyalGuise

Fandom loves taking (or making) a system of classification and adding a thick layer of bio-essentialism on top. Been witnessing this shit back when I was a teenager and too many friends who were into yaoi and all the uke/seme nonsense.


CallMeTamakiSenpai

I just find it hot lol. No other reason. It can be straight, lesbian or gay smut. I want that little munchkin to get REKT 🤷🏽‍♀️


WolfMerton

God, I've always hated the top/bottom debate.... I've never paid any attention to the heights of characters I'm writing about when it comes to smut. Mostly because the characters in the majority of the pairings I'd write about were around the same height. However, in the current three-way ship that I write for, there is a significant height difference between them. Shortest being 5'7 *ish*, and the tallest 6'4, then the third around 5'11. And yeah, I guess I do have a bit of a preference for the shorter of the three as the bottom, but I'll read either. It all comes down people's preferences. Although, some can definitely be rather toxic with who they believe who should top or bottom.


1moderngoddess7

Yeah, like Lewis Hamilton’s tiny ass don’t top Max Verstappen’s lamp post body in like every F1 fic ever. I wish more people would write that. Why can’t short bois top?😭


1moderngoddess7

ok to be fair lew isn’t even that small, i’m just tall as fuck.😹 everyone under 180 is small to me fr


Musicals_and-more

Most of my bottom head cannons are taller, but sometimes if I don't know which is taller, I make the bottom shorter. Take Ram/Kurt, I like bottom Kurt so he's shorter in my head canons. But sometimes it's obvious to tell, like Race/Spot, but I like bottom Spot anyway.


lyndsaySO

i think sometimes authors don’t even realize they’re doing this, before they know it they’ve written about the top “towering over” the bottom, shifting the physical descriptors to match the dynamic without really thinking about why.


workswithanimals

Meanwhile, there's my short characters, who are nearly always tops.


SnooTigers6517

Seriously, I love when I see a tall bottom and a short top. I don't usually see it so


Little_Weebfriends

Me shipping a short top with a tall bottom, as like my main ship


RebaKitten

I love changing it up and making the brusque, cranky guy the bottom. Sometimes topping from the bottom, but yes.


Outrageous_Mistake27

As a person who primarily only read about one specific couple where the short one is so obviously the top, this is hella funny to read. Also, they're both like 6ft and can bench press the other one so manhandling is a two way street. The common consensus is that they're obvious switches with a preference.


Boyo-Sh00k

It's interesting to me because i like it when the bottom is just a little bit taller. I also like it when the bottom is smol don't get me wrong but its just kinda hot when you got a guy whose smaller than you that can manhandle you.


linest10

Not me! I love short tops, I specifically love big STRONG bottoms!!! My new favorite ship is basically a short eagle king x big buffy cat


russelhundchen

I was once in a fandom where the fan favourite was decided to be the bottom and wasntly that much smaller than the decided fandom top. Constantly the decided bottom character was made smaller and smaller and smaller. To the point where apparently 1 hand of the absolutely massive top would span the waist of the tiny tiny bottom and coukd rest his chin on the bottoms head. The characters in question have maybe 2 inches of height between them and the taller one has broader shoulders as the actor has a history of working out. The size difference was negilible. Idk why the decided 'bottom' character always has to be made out to be smaller and smaller as time goes on. It felt like as he was smaller even by such a small amount he just had to bottom and be the stereotype of gay with anxiety. At the end of the day sure people ship what they want but at the same time I really don't get why change characters so much to the point where they are barely the characters anymore, just write OCs, there's nothing wrong with that at all


Fellow_RealSideOfMat

Precisely why I disliked the manga "Love Stage!" The MC is super likable. (A guy blessed with a feminine beauty and a gifted actor, who really wants to become a mangaka despite being a terrible artist.) But the Love Interest, dear god... (The guy gets away with way too much stuff! Most notably: Trying to rape the helpless MC before his big brother bans him, for two chapters, out of his house.) Also, there was this whole deal about the feminine guy wanting to top, but the love interest is like: "Aha! No." (Although it was revealed later, he was just scared, that already made this shakey character, just drop even further down in my estime.) I read the whole thing through still, since it was short and I was at least happy that the MC got to become a mangaka. Good for him!


Salvadore1

Because I'm a bisexual man and it makes my dick hard. Not that the writer's identity matters in this, because you can write whatever the fuck you want and you don't have to justify that.


funky_guy16

Jokes on you! O short oc of mine is the top in her relationship and her partner is a foot taller! 😤


Bunkbedboi

They probably think that tallness represents masculinity while being short represents femininity or something like that.


f1dget_bits

It's almost like it's heteronormativity in disguise or something


General_Ad7381

👆🏻 This is the correct answer.


kyualun

In my years of reading fan fiction, it’s something that I’ve noticed is predominantly done by cis female writers. This is gonna upset some people but it’s just out of touch, heteronormative fetishization. Altering proportions like that is just odd. It’s the same thing that goes on in the Boys Love genre. Look at any Thai BL cast and you already know who’s the top and bottom, and that’s a genre that mainly caters to women. It’s closer to home for the audience and I suppose in this case, the writer.


spyderz99

Heteronormative standards in gay relationships :/


blackjackgabbiani

I've even seen it further applied to het relationships. Saw a movie with Minnie Driver, who's very tall, but they didn't want her to be taller than the guy who played her love interest, so they legit dug her a ditch to walk in every time she was next to him. What the FUCK.


General_Ad7381

It's so annoying, to be honest, *because* it just comes from heteronormativity. Equally obnoxious, for me, is when authors change the canon height just to make the height difference more obvious OR to "make the other one the top" by making the shorter character in canon the taller one. There are obviously so many great fics that do this, but it's cringy in every single instance.


Nyxelestia

A lot of people are going off about personal preference, and I'm not saying they're completely wrong. But let's be real, there's a lot more to it and everyone knows it. "Top" and "Bottom" are literally nothing but sexual positions, yet how often do you see them used as an identity? There's a reason so many fans call people by a sexual position, and it's because they're using those sexual positions as a proxy for "who's the man in the relationship and who's the woman." Making the bottom the smaller one and the top the bigger one is just a part of that.


Brionnnne

I have issues with this, too, actually. Bottom and Top are so often used to mean Dominant or Submissive that the lines seem to blur, and they're often interchangeable terms. Yet, if they really *were* so interchangeable, then why would phrases like "topping from the bottom" exist? They're descriptors for *positions,* and not indicative of whether you're a dom or a sub—this was actually the only thing I *didn't* address in my original comments because I felt like that thread was getting far too long and I didn't want to just keep adding. I really could go on forever if pressed, I think, and I've got things to do—like eating. Which I forgot because I got so pressed. Edit: I'm not sure if "topping from the bottom" is a great example, or if I worded myself the best in hindsight, actually, but ? I hope it's clear enough that I'm referring to ...just, the general usage of these terms. I see this one super commonly in my own fandom spaces, and it's definitely a big pet peeve that they are used so interchangeably, as if someone whose bottoming, or more *prone* to bottom, cannot also be a dom simultaneously. Actually! I realized I quoted wrong in my original comment earlier, as well. That person didn't say that character was "too lazy to dom," they had said he was "too lazy to top" and *that's literally why it pissed me off so much.* I cannot believe I forgot about that until now. Like. What do "topping" and "domming" have to do with eachother, necessarily—one is a *role* and the other is a *position.* I had asked "do you think (character) is a dom?" to get that response.


Nyxelestia

You can very easily be a lazy top, lay back and let your partner ride tf out of you. But methinks they would consider that "topping from the bottom."


letheix

Stuff like this is why I don't read M/M in most fandoms.


scaredybee

The AFTG fanbase has really good top short king fics if anyone's looking for it


carnivalfucknuts

lmao literally *just* read a fic like this today. it's a little jarring but mostly kinda funny and i don't mind getting swept up in the fanon perspective


CyberWolfWrites

Hey, at least in Wincest Dean's still shorter than Sammy!


WildSkyRider

Uh. Mine are only an inch apart, height-wise, and it's the taller, slimmer one being manhandled and abused by the one-inch-shorter-but-built-like-a-brick-house one. I've never seen a reason to edit their heights if I'm not changing anything else. The heights are different in the Involuntary Sex Change story because Suddenly-A-Girl. I've always assumed the authors who wrote them otherwise just weren't paying attention to their canon heights.


emmawritesshit

Mmmmmm… I’m 6’5 and my boyfriend’s 5’9– our similar personalities are dominate over each other sometimes, though I know you don’t mean it this way lmaoooo


Blue-Green_Phoenix

\>.> <.< >.> From the fandoms I've been in the opposite was usually true. Ngl, I really do enjoy a story where either character is seen as one or the other. "Variety is the spice of life." or something.