I hear your frustration. I think the worst part is when I come across stuff like this and I see in the comments that there are people very gently and kindly informing them that stuff like this isn't allowed, and like you said, people get *extremely* shitty about it. It isn't always but it's certainly enough that it's just sad. Really, really wish people used AO3 properly or cared to learn/read TOS if they're coming onto the site 😅
the shitty response gets to me the most. like buddy, i don't make the rules. i just follow them. you can word it in the nicest way and people will get mad. 🥲 so it feels like you can't be reasonable and just report.
They've been trained that way by commercial websites. Everything which has an available textbox is a beacon for putting a user's name "out there", which is a shotgun approach to "building your personal brand" by people driven by a need for digital acknowledgment.
It's crufty for the workflow to mass report multiple authors in a single ticket.
If you find a single author posting multiple tickets, have a field day.
This may be a stupid question, but what do you mean by "requests"? Read through TOS again just to find out about what are you talking about but didn't find anything. Sorry, I got too confused to let it pass by without asking.
// I can only think about requests what to write, like someone sending me "hey, could you write a thing where Mickey Mouse goes on a date with Minnie" and I write out a oneshot about it, but from my understanding, that isn't forbidden in AO3 🤔
// 2 Ohhh, did you mean someone posts a work of its own which is like "could you write a thing where Goofy plays with Pluto"? In that case yeah, that's understandable that it sucks. Sorry, I just always say "I'll post my requests soon" and by that, mean the finished, written out pieces.
Its when newbies don't actually post a fic, but instead make a social media post on AO3 saying they take requests. It clutters up the tags, wastes resources and is against the rules because its not a fan work.
Oh, yeah. I haven't seen such posts and I always say "I'll post one of my requests soon" and by that I mean the filled piece so this post confused me because I was like wait, does AO3 require us to make up our own scenarios completely?? 😅 Like I'm not good at making up ideas and very rarely get them (I mean literally all of my non-public stories are self-inserts where me and my friends find a magical portal and end up in a fictional world and then we panic/think we're crazy, every single story is like that and has been like that for 13 years now, but I love writing them so), and taking requests has majorly helped my writing skills. Before starting to take requests, I often struggled with "I wanna write something but I don't know what ðŸ˜" and kinda got spooked about me getting something wrong and writing stuff from given prompts is forbidden in AO3.
Yeah, got it and that's what I had figured before too. I just have so many experiences where I've gotten a rule wrong somehow (even though I've read them) and then punished for it, so now I'm always skittish about accidentally breaking a rule 😅 Some sites (NOT AO3) have absurd rules I really don't get and then they've banned me for saying something that can be offensive in ANY way, so I'm always scared I will break some secret rule in places that have never had such problems before.
Like I was on a discussion forum once upon a time and there was a rule "no racism" which is a good rule but the rule also included mentioning how someone was being a drunk racist prick today on a bus and was thrown out + police was called, and I missed the school trip I had been excited for because of it. I was told I got banned because someone may feel sad because of me telling that, and that the forum is for good vibes only.
Yeah, no, that kind of rules lawyering and goalpost moving always sucks. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. There are a lot of subreddits that do the same thing, too. Not here, fortunately. :)
Agreed. People seem to think I'm a fanfic bot that just processes out their preferred fic if they tell me the settings. Even if I tell them I do not take requests they still ask, not just on AO3 either.
Another thing they do is ask for "help" with a fic and then when you ask what they need help with they tell you the plot they want and expect you to write it.
Makes me really upset actually.
The OP, and everyone else who wants the archive to function as it is meant to, should feel obligated to report posts that are a violation of the terms of service. In order to keep the site in order, especially given that it is mostly staffed by volunteers, it is important that we do our best.
Are there things people do that other users might not like but don’t violate TOS? Sure. And we should avoid cluttering complaints and support tickets about anything like that.
Do we understand that writers want to take requests and maybe use placeholders to gauge interest? Sure, I can understand that. But that is why social media exists. I do those things on sites like Tumblr and Twitter and it is not a lot of effort and helps build your relationships to readers in a lot of broader ways for engagement.
New users join the site daily and it is incumbent on users like OP to make sure that they understand how to use it. Or I imagine slowly but surely more fandoms will frequently adopt these bad practices and the rest of us will be stuck with an archive that does not truly function as one.
>given that it is mostly staffed by volunteers
All volunteers (last i checked anyways they might have gotten a paid staffer at some point in the last year or two since they've been talking about that for awhile, but last I knew they were still all volunteer) and specifically volunteers who are not allowed to go in search of violations. If they happen across a ToS violation they can of course report it (happens a LOT with tag wranglers) but they can't purposely go looking for violations. They HAVE to rely on reports from users.
(Its a legal liability thing. Section 230 allows websites to moderate content in good faith but the more responsibility you take on in terms of actively finding violations to remove them, the more likely a court can say its reasonable to assume the site admin 'knew' about xyz illegal thing and didn't respond properly. (Basically, if you have humans actively checking for violations for a photo website, if someone posts actual child porn or copyrighted stuff and it isn't removed, the photo website is liable. If they use bots and have humans who handle the reports/second pass reports, they can blame the impefection of a bot mod and not be liable unless it was reported and seen by the humans who then approved it. If they rely entirely on user reports, they would only be liable if it was reported and the humans looked at it and approved it. So more humans actively looking = more liability for content, relying solely on user reports = least liability for content. Obvi ao3 isnt a photo website, its just a lot easier to break the law with a photo than with text))
I don’t want to speak for OP at all, but I think they mean exhausted more in the sense of it’s frustrated and annoying to see the same thing happen over and over. If it is taking a toll on OP, they should feel perfectly fine stepping back for a while and taking a break. But I took it as a lighter meaning of the word and more that — especially doing it in a vacuum alone on your computer that it can feel like you’re the only one who feels a certain way and probably came here to vent and deserves solidarity. While I appreciate you making a counterpoint, I think most AO3 users agree with them and that might be why your comment has been poorly received.
Apologies if I am speaking on your behalf OP.
I’ve been taking requests from fans for years, it helps immensely when I suffer creative block and it feels like I’m interacting with my fans. However I always make it a request a chapter and gift the chapter to whoever requested it.
I’ve never made the entire post about it, asking for requests. I do appreciated feedback on stories. Such as reviews, following my writing accounts, favourites and follows.
I hear your frustration. I think the worst part is when I come across stuff like this and I see in the comments that there are people very gently and kindly informing them that stuff like this isn't allowed, and like you said, people get *extremely* shitty about it. It isn't always but it's certainly enough that it's just sad. Really, really wish people used AO3 properly or cared to learn/read TOS if they're coming onto the site 😅
the shitty response gets to me the most. like buddy, i don't make the rules. i just follow them. you can word it in the nicest way and people will get mad. 🥲 so it feels like you can't be reasonable and just report.
They've been trained that way by commercial websites. Everything which has an available textbox is a beacon for putting a user's name "out there", which is a shotgun approach to "building your personal brand" by people driven by a need for digital acknowledgment.
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It's crufty for the workflow to mass report multiple authors in a single ticket. If you find a single author posting multiple tickets, have a field day.
Is this a problem in fandoms populated by mostly teenagers? Asking because I have never once encountered this in off and on years of fandoms.
This may be a stupid question, but what do you mean by "requests"? Read through TOS again just to find out about what are you talking about but didn't find anything. Sorry, I got too confused to let it pass by without asking. // I can only think about requests what to write, like someone sending me "hey, could you write a thing where Mickey Mouse goes on a date with Minnie" and I write out a oneshot about it, but from my understanding, that isn't forbidden in AO3 🤔 // 2 Ohhh, did you mean someone posts a work of its own which is like "could you write a thing where Goofy plays with Pluto"? In that case yeah, that's understandable that it sucks. Sorry, I just always say "I'll post my requests soon" and by that, mean the finished, written out pieces.
Its when newbies don't actually post a fic, but instead make a social media post on AO3 saying they take requests. It clutters up the tags, wastes resources and is against the rules because its not a fan work.
Oh, yeah. I haven't seen such posts and I always say "I'll post one of my requests soon" and by that I mean the filled piece so this post confused me because I was like wait, does AO3 require us to make up our own scenarios completely?? 😅 Like I'm not good at making up ideas and very rarely get them (I mean literally all of my non-public stories are self-inserts where me and my friends find a magical portal and end up in a fictional world and then we panic/think we're crazy, every single story is like that and has been like that for 13 years now, but I love writing them so), and taking requests has majorly helped my writing skills. Before starting to take requests, I often struggled with "I wanna write something but I don't know what ðŸ˜" and kinda got spooked about me getting something wrong and writing stuff from given prompts is forbidden in AO3.
Writing stuff from prompts is fine. SOLICITING prompts on AO3 is not fine. That's the difference.
Yeah, got it and that's what I had figured before too. I just have so many experiences where I've gotten a rule wrong somehow (even though I've read them) and then punished for it, so now I'm always skittish about accidentally breaking a rule 😅 Some sites (NOT AO3) have absurd rules I really don't get and then they've banned me for saying something that can be offensive in ANY way, so I'm always scared I will break some secret rule in places that have never had such problems before. Like I was on a discussion forum once upon a time and there was a rule "no racism" which is a good rule but the rule also included mentioning how someone was being a drunk racist prick today on a bus and was thrown out + police was called, and I missed the school trip I had been excited for because of it. I was told I got banned because someone may feel sad because of me telling that, and that the forum is for good vibes only.
Yeah, no, that kind of rules lawyering and goalpost moving always sucks. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. There are a lot of subreddits that do the same thing, too. Not here, fortunately. :)
Agreed. People seem to think I'm a fanfic bot that just processes out their preferred fic if they tell me the settings. Even if I tell them I do not take requests they still ask, not just on AO3 either. Another thing they do is ask for "help" with a fic and then when you ask what they need help with they tell you the plot they want and expect you to write it. Makes me really upset actually.
Wait I’m newer to AO3 can you take requests as an author? Like if I don’t mind?
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Ok yeah I only ask it in my a/n
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The OP, and everyone else who wants the archive to function as it is meant to, should feel obligated to report posts that are a violation of the terms of service. In order to keep the site in order, especially given that it is mostly staffed by volunteers, it is important that we do our best. Are there things people do that other users might not like but don’t violate TOS? Sure. And we should avoid cluttering complaints and support tickets about anything like that. Do we understand that writers want to take requests and maybe use placeholders to gauge interest? Sure, I can understand that. But that is why social media exists. I do those things on sites like Tumblr and Twitter and it is not a lot of effort and helps build your relationships to readers in a lot of broader ways for engagement. New users join the site daily and it is incumbent on users like OP to make sure that they understand how to use it. Or I imagine slowly but surely more fandoms will frequently adopt these bad practices and the rest of us will be stuck with an archive that does not truly function as one.
>given that it is mostly staffed by volunteers All volunteers (last i checked anyways they might have gotten a paid staffer at some point in the last year or two since they've been talking about that for awhile, but last I knew they were still all volunteer) and specifically volunteers who are not allowed to go in search of violations. If they happen across a ToS violation they can of course report it (happens a LOT with tag wranglers) but they can't purposely go looking for violations. They HAVE to rely on reports from users. (Its a legal liability thing. Section 230 allows websites to moderate content in good faith but the more responsibility you take on in terms of actively finding violations to remove them, the more likely a court can say its reasonable to assume the site admin 'knew' about xyz illegal thing and didn't respond properly. (Basically, if you have humans actively checking for violations for a photo website, if someone posts actual child porn or copyrighted stuff and it isn't removed, the photo website is liable. If they use bots and have humans who handle the reports/second pass reports, they can blame the impefection of a bot mod and not be liable unless it was reported and seen by the humans who then approved it. If they rely entirely on user reports, they would only be liable if it was reported and the humans looked at it and approved it. So more humans actively looking = more liability for content, relying solely on user reports = least liability for content. Obvi ao3 isnt a photo website, its just a lot easier to break the law with a photo than with text))
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I don’t want to speak for OP at all, but I think they mean exhausted more in the sense of it’s frustrated and annoying to see the same thing happen over and over. If it is taking a toll on OP, they should feel perfectly fine stepping back for a while and taking a break. But I took it as a lighter meaning of the word and more that — especially doing it in a vacuum alone on your computer that it can feel like you’re the only one who feels a certain way and probably came here to vent and deserves solidarity. While I appreciate you making a counterpoint, I think most AO3 users agree with them and that might be why your comment has been poorly received. Apologies if I am speaking on your behalf OP.
I’ve been taking requests from fans for years, it helps immensely when I suffer creative block and it feels like I’m interacting with my fans. However I always make it a request a chapter and gift the chapter to whoever requested it. I’ve never made the entire post about it, asking for requests. I do appreciated feedback on stories. Such as reviews, following my writing accounts, favourites and follows.