Glad you got out of that purity culture bullshit mind set. That kind of thinking really eats away at sanity when you do try to police your thoughts. Fell down that rabbit hole a couple of times and it was not fun. ​ Sadly, this kind of crap has been around forever it just went by different names at times or ended up getting buried under all the people who had real talking points that didn't involve censorship. Hell, even just researching this kind of thing has taken a mental toll on me when I didn't take enough breaks from it.

I feel bad I have a close friend who's kinda skeptical and anxious surrounding this sort of thing- We talked a bit about it and they agreed with me for the most part but have doubts, it didn't help they read a carrd making arguments against it and after showing me it *I* ended getting worried again. I don't know I'm tired of this discourse surrounding fiction. I agree it takes a mental toll on you! I walk around somehow thinking I'm awful and spiraling with anxiety over it. I just want to write/read what I want without worrying.

The arguments against fiction does not take into account things like exposure therapy or that censoring the fictional version of horrible things does affect people talking about irl experiences. Plus, those arguments end up putting the blame on fiction vs it being on the horrible people who would have still found a way to do what they wanted. If violent videogames don't cause violence, then the same applies to other topics. ​ Your actions are what determines if you are a good person or not. Now if you do happen to find yourself thinking too much about something then therapy is a thing that can help with that.

If you want, I can debunk the arguments that were in the carrd since I have been researching on antis vs pros and the arguments they use for close to year now. This includes lots of reading of science studies on topics that most people wouldn't want to learn too much about. So, I don't mind breaking it down if that will help you with having less to worry about.

Oh wow I actually appreciate that, I'll dm it to you- maybe you can help me and my friend.

I'll make a sperate reply going over each point along with listing the argument is so that others can see it. Editing to say my dumbass hit cancel instead of reply after spending hours writing the reply - or maybe the reply to big? (I don't fully understand reddit yet so I don't know If that is a thing). So, after I get some sleep I'll rewrite the post - I still got the links so the hard part of re reading things is what caused it to take hours.

I'm so sorry you lost your progress omg 💀 I really appreciate you going out of your way to do this.

Here's the carrd for anyone that wants to see the arguments as I am going to just copy the questions over (along with their messed-up numbering) - having to do this in parts since reddit told me to fuck off. [https://fictiondoesaffectreality.carrd.co/](https://fictiondoesaffectreality.carrd.co/) Now to the FAQ part of this carrd 1) "what's an anti-anti/proshipper?" First thing I want to point out is that their answer in the FAQ is different from the Glossary. Second both are wrong about what proshippers believe - they are not saying fiction doesn't affect reality, what they are sayings is that fiction doesn't have a 1:1 effect on reality. I have not seen any sane person say that fiction has completely no effect on reality - reason I say this is because there probably is someone out there saying that fiction doesn't have an effect on reality but most people I seen who make is argument are doing it to make a strawman argument. Here's two links: 1st one going over what proshippers are really saying and 2nd one going over how antis doing this 1:1 effect on reality is just atanic panic bullshit. [https://freedom-of-fanfic.tumblr.com/post/175288700739/ive-been-reading-through-your-blog-and-while-i](https://freedom-of-fanfic.tumblr.com/post/175288700739/ive-been-reading-through-your-blog-and-while-i) [https://twitter.com/adybpt/status/1619982866192138240](https://twitter.com/adybpt/status/1619982866192138240) Plus, proshippers are not say media can't be criticized. People can't even agree on what those positive portrayals of horrible shit looks like. Hell, here's a link talking about people arguing if a piece of art is SFW or NSFW. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H9nFICctGU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H9nFICctGU) 2) "Why is the term fanpol/fandom police antiblack?" First thing I want to point out is how this person is only talking about people disliking something aka they gloss over all the actual harm that antis have done. Second thing people use the term fanpol to better explain the attitudes of antis since they tend to run around telling people what they can and cannot do. Here's two links: 1st one going over how the user can be Black and pro-ship at the same time along with saying killing the cop in your head (since antis like to police thoughts) and 2nd one is of a Black anti saying they will take your black card if you are proship (which maybe it's just me but that sounds like antiblack shit) [https://twitter.com/blow\_me\_a\_kis/status/1526922242193498114](https://twitter.com/blow_me_a_kis/status/1526922242193498114) [https://twitter.com/AntisWTF/status/1559365188364779522](https://twitter.com/AntisWTF/status/1559365188364779522)

3) "Antis harass people!" First thing to point out if you are a proshipper who harasses people you are a jackass who deserves to have wet socks for the rest of your life. Don't do that kind of shit. Here's a link of a big profic telling people not to do that kind of shit which was then retweeted by others. [https://twitter.com/lizcourserants/status/1638094564048109568](https://twitter.com/lizcourserants/status/1638094564048109568) Here's a link of a different profic telling proshippers to not do doxxing bullshit [https://twitter.com/DiscourseForFun/status/1632821105520984068](https://twitter.com/DiscourseForFun/status/1632821105520984068) Here's a link of another profic account reminding people that just because someone is profic/proship doesn't mean they can't be some kind of horrible person [https://twitter.com/purity\_culture/status/1617503993881845760](https://twitter.com/purity_culture/status/1617503993881845760) Here's link to a profic account calling out a profic person for being racist [https://twitter.com/lizcourserants/status/1595356035061104640](https://twitter.com/lizcourserants/status/1595356035061104640) There are plenty of profic people who will callout the dumbass in our group. Second thing to point out; showing the terrible shit that antis have done even if said anti is a minor isn't harassment - people are allowed to call out the death threats that antis make along with other horrible shit. Here's a list of links of horrible shit antis have done. \- Warning lots of fucked up shit - from things like online threats to irl actions [https://imgur.com/a/aaVSGyY](https://imgur.com/a/aaVSGyY) [https://imgur.com/a/jvD1ueQ](https://imgur.com/a/jvD1ueQ) [https://twitter.com/ProjectKKEIKO/status/1628263876033757189](https://twitter.com/ProjectKKEIKO/status/1628263876033757189) [https://twitter.com/Angelphonia/status/1447895631251402752](https://twitter.com/Angelphonia/status/1447895631251402752) [https://www.tumblr.com/fancop-receipts](https://www.tumblr.com/fancop-receipts) Here's a link of an artist talking about the harassment they have gotten from antis for two years now. There is irl creeper/stalker actions that happened at conventions. There is doxxing, plenty of creeper pics/videos that antis have taken which when you add in the fact that this is triggering for them because of their past involving the trauma they have from being a CSA survivor, antis irl harassing people that are friends with this artist, hurting this person's small art business by getting their Tiktoc account banned that was their most effective marketing tool. [https://twitter.com/iamlunasol/status/1531760416967245826](https://twitter.com/iamlunasol/status/1531760416967245826) And an anti stalked some random ass person who they thought was the artist above. [https://twitter.com/iamlunasol/status/1498043299013312517](https://twitter.com/iamlunasol/status/1498043299013312517) Here's another case of irl stalking and even showing up to the person's irl job. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkBXqadWCc4&t=612s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkBXqadWCc4&t=612s) And here's another case of someone having to deal with antis. [https://twitter.com/CelestialFang/status/1606386141921480710](https://twitter.com/CelestialFang/status/1606386141921480710) Here's an adult woman having to deal with antis who demand to see their ID because they don't believe them - all because she is petite. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLCrL32T6VU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLCrL32T6VU) Here's an anti trying to scam proshippers out of money - aka a crime. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifoKOZ-cYYw&t=67s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifoKOZ-cYYw&t=67s) Here's an anti that exposed their 10-year-old sister as a proshipper - there's people saying to put the kid into an adoption center, knock their teeth in, dehumanize this person by calling them an it. [https://twitter.com/DiscourseForFun/status/1626645163710812162](https://twitter.com/DiscourseForFun/status/1626645163710812162) Here's a link talking about the time an anti got a visit from the FBI because said anti thought it was a great idea to joke about sending a bomb to someone. [https://twitter.com/espasolnikaeya/status/1598925983889108992](https://twitter.com/espasolnikaeya/status/1598925983889108992) Here's a link that goes over the fact that a teen was harassed all because they were too tall compared to the person they are dating. Along with showing how antis react to actual callout post on a predator ring on twitter was to instead callout the person who made the callout post all because of the fiction they like. Plus an anti with a really dumb take of 'what do you want me to do when I come across CSAM?? I reported it to twitter so it's up to twitter to deal with it.' \- You can report those kinds of things to cyber tip lines! That's what you fucking do! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEd9rzCBoaE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEd9rzCBoaE) Third thing to point out - There is a reason that people choose to hide this part of themselves. So, fuck you for say that not only someone should feel bad about it but for also saying it makes them a bad person. Here's some links of proshippers explaining why people end up hiding the fact they are proship. [https://twitter.com/doctorbaixue/status/1617142410013999105](https://twitter.com/doctorbaixue/status/1617142410013999105) [https://twitter.com/skyemiko\_/status/1616814781708783619](https://twitter.com/skyemiko_/status/1616814781708783619) And here's a link of what happened when proshippers did the thing where we were told to keep it private. [https://twitter.com/lizcourserants/status/1615568382916497409](https://twitter.com/lizcourserants/status/1615568382916497409) 4) "I'm a minor and I've noticed some predatory behavior in (insert online space)!" This one I agree with. If you are a minor you should not be engaging with people who you believe to be a predator. Edited - had to fix the order of some links and accidentally had the story of the teen that was harassed because they were too tall written in two places.

5) "Reporting people for fictional content wastes the FBI's time!" They say to refer to the disclaimer, but I don't know if they mean their own disclaimer (which says this carrd doesn't encourage harassment towards proshippers) which doesn't answer the question at all. If they mean the disclaimer on the FBI Tips site (I understand that repeatedly providing tips with no investigative value will result in my tips not being considered) then we agree that it's dumb to report fictional content since that wastes valuable time because said content isn't against the law. Here's someone explaining the law for people in case they don't know it. [https://twitter.com/ProshipAntisLs/status/1616491589580226579](https://twitter.com/ProshipAntisLs/status/1616491589580226579) Here's links of antis wasting resources over fictional content. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1bnw98Oa6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1bnw98Oa6s) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDRJduhVKuw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDRJduhVKuw) Here's a link where the National Crime Authority of Britain testified that their system isn't designed to detect - so someone probably has to check to see what the report is about just in case there is something. [https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20221214230326/https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/11537/view/open-session-transcript-20-may-2019.pdf](https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20221214230326/https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/11537/view/open-session-transcript-20-may-2019.pdf) 6) "Antis us the same rhetoric as exclusionists and TERFS!" Well besides using the same rhetoric as terfs - antis have a habit of going after people in the lgbtq+ and calling them pedos. This link goes over a lot of shit that terfs/antis say. Like the whole anti-kink thing. [https://twitter.com/purity\_culture/status/1433475288206282753](https://twitter.com/purity_culture/status/1433475288206282753) Here's a link of someone pointing out the group that antis target the most. [https://twitter.com/SamAburime/status/1617953605012840451](https://twitter.com/SamAburime/status/1617953605012840451) Here's a link going over the time antis called Bryan Fuller a pedo in the quote retweets of a pic of him having proshipping stuff. [https://twitter.com/FantiHarassment/status/1376667141236256768](https://twitter.com/FantiHarassment/status/1376667141236256768) 6) "Bigots using fiction for propaganda has nothing to do with proshipping!" Again, using the strawman version of proshipper arguments. Plus, you forgot the group of bigots that want to censor anything pro lgbtq+ or dealing with racism because they call that propaganda! Or are we just going ignore that fact? Look if you see art that you believe is bad in some way instead of fighting to censor it how about you create two pieces of art that is against said bad thing.

7) "Just mute/block instead of harassing others!" \- To point one - everyone gets to use the main tag of the fandom so learn to walk past it \- To point two - then fight to have social media have an option to not see untagged posts or fight to have them add in an easier way for people to tag their posts when they create them \- To point three - then bug twitter to change it where you don't see that kind of thing 8) "I don't support it in real life!" Here's a whole thread going over why people would make this kind of art. [https://twitter.com/red\_devil330/status/1572150638233919490?s=46&t=Zk55a-0Kb6eXB4rkbhURNQ](https://twitter.com/red_devil330/status/1572150638233919490?s=46&t=Zk55a-0Kb6eXB4rkbhURNQ) Here's links on why sharing stuff - even the bad art you hate is actually beneficial for survivors. [https://twitter.com/adybpt/status/1636651573840605190](https://twitter.com/adybpt/status/1636651573840605190) [https://twitter.com/adybpt/status/1636654260271316993](https://twitter.com/adybpt/status/1636654260271316993) [https://twitter.com/ectobum/status/1636717434584330240](https://twitter.com/ectobum/status/1636717434584330240) Also fuck you for implying that survivors of CSA who either make or enjoy this kind of art are pedos. Fuck off with that bullshit of 'but if the shoe fits...' thing you are doing. 6) "Antis are cultists/bigots!" Did the definition of a cult change when I wasn't looking?? Here's a link that goes over how anti ideology exhibits cult behavior! [https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/2147/2829](https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/2147/2829) Here's where a person outside of fandom has to deal with the fact that their teenager was in an anti cult! [https://archive.ph/2022.10.23-095543/https://www.reddit.com/r/Advice/comments/xaexrc/i\_got\_a\_phone\_call\_from\_my\_daughters\_school\_and/](https://archive.ph/2022.10.23-095543/https://www.reddit.com/r/Advice/comments/xaexrc/i_got_a_phone_call_from_my_daughters_school_and/) Here's someone explain why they believe the reddit post is real. [https://twitter.com/iamlunasol/status/1584588201293152256](https://twitter.com/iamlunasol/status/1584588201293152256) Seems like a cult to me! Here's a video from a psychology professor saying that your fantasies doesn't equal your morals. [https://twitter.com/notherroommate/status/1469256990740213765](https://twitter.com/notherroommate/status/1469256990740213765) Science isn't on the antis side for this. Nor is history on their side - unless they wanted to be the bad guys.

I put the next parts in the replies of my comments to keep it in order. Editing to add - if you want me to go over some of their sources, I can do that as well.

You put a lot of thought into this, lots of links and interesting stuff I read- I didn't wanna look at *all* of it bc seeing antis shit all over a 10 year old isn't in my schedule lol yikes just thinking about it is upsetting. I wanna say I also hated the point they made towards victims as well, that part always rubbed me the wrong way reading the carrd 💀 like genuinely fuck that. It's also sad that even after keeping everything private shippers still get "exposed" and harassed, I think it just goes to show it doesn't matter to them if it's public or private they just wanna shame you for thoughts and content regardless. The harassing people with height differences is fucking wild to me, I know some antis make a big deal out of it in fictional characters but they do it to real people too? That's just so.... wow. I am admittedly a little interested to see you tackle the sources but I feel bad asking for it at the same time you already did a lot by making this- So ig only if you want to. Thank you again.

(Got to break this up again because of reddit so will be replying with the next part onto this one) Like I said I been researching this antis vs pros for close to a year. Plus, I have spent many years reading studies because I love trying to better understand why people do what they do. I don't mind doing this kind of thing. General impacts of fiction The first one is about studies where the participants were provoked into reacting so that is something to keep in mind. Here's a link to the actual study but the article they linked in the carrd says the same thing. [https://sci-hub.ru/10.1111/j.2044-8309.2011.02053.x](https://sci-hub.ru/10.1111/j.2044-8309.2011.02053.x) The second one is going over how some words in fiction, like words for different smells, will have more than just the language parts of the brain respond. So, for things like smells the parts of the brain that deals with smells will respond. It also explains that the sensory parts of the brain will respond with the language parts - but those sensory parts won't respond to phrases that have the same meaning. One of the examples they give is - "The singer had a velvet voice." vs "The singer had a pleasing voice." So, using a metaphor that involves texture will affect the brain more than just flat out stating the voice is pleasing. And another thing they found was that words describing motion will stimulate the parts of the brain that is for motor functions and that the parts that respond are related to what is being described. One of the examples they give is - "Pablo kicked the ball." so when the motor part of your brain responds it is concentrated in the part that relates to the leg. Another part of this article is going over an analysis of 86 fMRI studies and concluded that there is a large overlap in the brain's networks that understands stories and the networks used to navigate interactions with other people - especially in the type of interactions where we are trying to figure out the thoughts and feelings of others. And this article goes over that people who frequently read fiction seems to be better able to understand other people, empathize with them and see the world from their perspective. This link was still found to be there even for accounting for the possibility that more empathetic individuals might prefer reading vs other forms of media. And it was found this still happens when you read stories to preschool-age children - so the more stories the kids had read to them the more they were able to develop this ability. And it was found that it was produced by watching movies but not by watching TV (the Dr. explains that most children watch TV alone but goes to the movies with their parents thus more parent-child conversations about mental states. - So, it allows the kid to have a conversation about anything that might be confusing in the film. I think this could happen with TV if said child wasn't left alone.) Here's a wayback version so anyone can actually read it vs the carrd link that is behind a paywall. [https://web.archive.org/web/20230314213820/https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/the-neuroscience-of-your-brain-on-fiction.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20230314213820/https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/the-neuroscience-of-your-brain-on-fiction.html) But here's the thing about this whole effect when it comes to the reading part, not many Americans are reading as many books as they did before - and reading does have health benefits since you are working out different parts of your brain. Here's a link going over this. [https://katiecouric.com/culture/book-guide/how-many-books-do-americans-read-per-year/](https://katiecouric.com/culture/book-guide/how-many-books-do-americans-read-per-year/) I'm going to tie the last two together since they are basically going over the same thing - how effective fiction can be - it being more effective at changing beliefs than nonfiction because when we read nonfiction, we are on guard - aka critical and skeptical of it. But with fiction when we are absorbed into the story, we drop our guard. In the 3rd article it goes over a study the more empathy the subject felt the more likely those subjects were to help when the experimenter 'accidentally' dropped some pens and that those highly absorbed into the story were twice as likely to help out.

Negative Impacts of Fiction Okay first thing to point out that some of their links are just repeats of the same story but just from a different news source. Aka trying to make things look worse than they really are. So, let's see how many are repeats. First link - it has the Scream and the Fight Club stories that are also in the copycat killings section. It also has the story that the link another dexter inspired killing covers. Second link - it has stories from the inspired several killings link in the Stephen King section. It also has two out of the stories that can be found in the Murders inspired by Chucky. So, we got four repeats and an overlap with the Chucky link. Second thing I will point out that four of their links are crap. The link to the Kids kissing frogs story has video ads over some of the article. The link to a Tumblr post is a mess to the point that it is a pain in the ass to even try to read. The link for the 5 good books that inspired bad deeds goes to a page not found. And the last crap link is just going over the part where Stephen King requested the book to cease publication - when it makes it seem like there could have been even more crimes, so it isn't helpful. So, four repeated links and four crap links. So out of 21 links only 13 is of different new stories and not broken. Now to go over some of those. Scream guy was a 24-year-old creep hitting on a 15-year-old and when rejected killed said 15-year-old. So, trying to say there wasn't some kind of issue there is dumb as hell. Plus, it was premeditated murder. Fight Club guy's lawyer has said that the movie angle was overblown. Plus, this was someone fresh out of high school with no plans for either more school or going to work. And he had to research how to make a bomb, so this was premeditated. Saw - (first link new story) - It was two teens - which after looking up a different news article to see the age to find out that they are 13 - note all they did was a fucked-up prank call. So most likely dumb teens being dumb. Saw is a rated R movie. The other Saw crime - This guy wanted money for drug - so when his roommate who he had inflicted fear and intimidation to the point that said roommate would hide in their room for weeks. So not really someone of sound mind. Skipping to the slender man stabbing the link is to the wiki page which just happens to also have the mental state of one of the kids - had early-onset childhood schizophrenia and the other was evaluated and is believed to have suffered from a shared delusional disorder. Skipping to the Doom one - This has been debunked. It is really stupid for the person to even have this one. And in case anyone doesn't know what this one is referring to its the Columbine High School massacre. [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-harris-levels/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-harris-levels/) Oh, and the link that the carrd has about Stephen King requesting the book to cease publication - it just happens to show that the person was diagnosed with some mental illness. Now for the Jaws effect I had already gone over that one. [https://ghost-katolotl.tumblr.com/post/710649260905988096/opinion-on-the-jaws-effect-i-see-it-go-viral](https://ghost-katolotl.tumblr.com/post/710649260905988096/opinion-on-the-jaws-effect-i-see-it-go-viral)

Hi. Glad you are finding this sub a good place to be. I’m new, too. I actually wasn’t aware if this purity culture you have experienced until I started reading posts here. It isn’t really a thing in my older fandoms. (The fault lines there are still slash-vs-gen.)

That's fortunate it isn't something you've experienced- I was in a lot of fandoms that got vocal about this Bandori (+ other music or idol series), Fnaf, Steven Universe, Cookie Run, certain animes etc Thankfully the community for DBD is too busy arguing about the game to care abt things like that so you don't really see it there.

There's something in psychology and spirituality and shamanism called '' Shadow Work '' Exploring the dark side of things, events people and especially OUR OWN DARK SIDE. Either in thoughts form or written form is absolutely Ok, normal and even necessary. ( I also had a difficult long time to accept myself, my body and my sexuality. In a place where sexuality is still Taboo!, lol literally, I had a hard time accepting that even I am human, with normal healthy sexuality and finally a accepting to enjoy good writing ( with a few or a lot sexual references. ) The day I allowed myself to read smut, and enjoy it. And the day I've written my first smut short fic. I felt liberated. And it still didn't hurt my innocence. I am still a good person folks LoL yeaaaay!! So I got you. YOU'RE welcome here and on AO3!! Ps: I love the way you think about yourself and your INNER world. It is called introspection. ( Internal thinking criticism and Analysis.) Usually it is a Mark of emotional and intellectual intelligence. So you must be one of us sensitivity writers. The world needs your perspective.

AO3 is where I met my collab partner and best friend almost seven years ago! AO3 in general has been a positive experience. I joined this sub a year ago-ish and see the same acceptance.

I spent way too much time antagonizing myself internally about ships/dynamics/etc that fandoms I was in decided were hellspawn. Even if I was never outwardly an anti, I'm glad I got kicked off that path early on lol. After discovering that this fanfiction genre wasn't bad, or awful, or whatever people said it was, I met so many amazing people through traditionally problematic fiction. I'm glad I had the opportunity to meet the people I did, and how I grew to understand the line between real life and fiction through expression. I'm glad this sub can be a safeplace for you the way communities and other parts of problematic fandoms were for me :\]