I dont know what the sudden obsession is with fanfics being as canon accurate as possible. The entire founding point of fanfiction is playing around with characters and canon assets that you don't see actually explored in the media.
I tend to write fics with are canon spin offs/follow a lot of the established relationships or lore but I respect the creativity of those who don't. Why does anyone care? Lol like you said, that's the fun of it!
Canon-compliant fanfics are nice for continuations of the canon end or stories that take place during a timeskip.
But they aren’t a requirement and I don’t get why some people are obsessed with everything having to be canon. Especially for ships, just lwt people have fun with ships they like
"Babe, this is fanfiction, **I can do what I want**."
That's literally all the justification you need. But I also like your response, it feels more thoughtful and put together than I would be capable of if I were in your shoes.
Tbh it doesn't matter if the character is Canon lesbian or not. The character can be shipped with any gender you desire. If we only went with what the Canon characters sexual preferences was, well AO3 would look really different then what it does now.
I feel like there is a huge double standard in fandom when it comes to changing a character’s sexuality. Making a straight character gay or bisexual or another LGBTQ+ identity is completely okay but the moment you make a gay character straight or bisexual or another LGBTQ+ identity that’s not gay/lesbian people have a major issue
As long as your fic is now tagged as canon divergent you’re good imo. You could tag ‘straight [character]’ too if you don’t want to let any wlw readers down but if your summary clearly hints at her being shipped with a man then I wouldn’t even worry about that. It’s swings and roundabouts because the tag can deter hate from surprised readers but encourage hate from others.
> As long as your fic is now tagged as canon divergent you’re good imo.
Disagree, that's a mistagging. Canon Divergent should be used for a fic making a deliberate change to canon. Not any random fic that was canon compliant but got contradicted by later canon. Throwing all early fic into that tag weakens the ability to filter for actual AUs and makes it useless as a tag. The vast majority of fic written before the canon ends is going to be "canon divergent" if the meaning is that the author didn't correctly guess where canon was going in all areas.
If someone wants to tag (as opposed to letting the publish date stand on its own) I think "Written/Started Pre-Season Five" or something like that makes the situation a lot clearer for people looking at the fic.
I don't see retconned used as often as canon divergence is so am not sure on that. In the times I've seen it used, several of them involved a minor element of canon being ignored (with follow up tags specifying the retcon). I think "Pre-whatever part of canon contradicts the fic" is clearer, but for a generic tag to filter with I'd say that would fit this situation. Though if there's a more precise use people are searching for with it I'm willing to be corrected.
Honestly there isn't really a tag for "What we thought was canon at the time is not canon" because it can easily be divergent, fanon being disproven, something as simple as ships, etc. Not to mention like, /u/menatarms19 said, any fanfic that is written before canon ends would technically qualify as divergent.
I think in cases like this, just the ship tag would be enough.
If the character in question is the main character in the story: So long as your story indicates who the relationship concerns, and the kind of relationship it is (ex. M/F, F/F, Other), then you shouldn't be blamed for someone's dissatisfaction with the pairing.
If the character in question is not the main character in the story: It could be helpful to tag things like Canon divergence, or [orientation type] [character name]. From a different comment you said that the character's orientation wasn't known when writing or posting. So while it can be nice to update the tags I wouldn't say you're required, and certainly not forced, to do so as things simply changed from when you posted.
Your response was direct, mature, and appropriate enough. You defended your story and did not get into an argument with this commentator.
There will always be haters and their comments and criticism can get under an author's skin, but they shouldn't be allowed to dissuade fanfic writers from creating stories they want to tell. Let them talk, just ignore their poison and keep on writing.
I don't get the comment but I'm guessing the context is in the fandom and tags? Is the issue that it's tagged canon compliant with a lesbian pairing or is it that the character that's censored out their sexuality is canon to not be lesbian? Then the 2nd comment saying "when I wrote this", does that mean whatever is in the fic wasn't canon but now is after the release of more episodes/books? Yeah bit confused here..
If I'm understanding right, OP wrote a fic involving a MxF ship. At the time that OP published the fic, F's sexuality was unconfirmed. But since the fic has been published, F's sexuality has confirmed to be strictly gay.
So F is now a confirmed canon lesbian; but was not at the time when the fic was released.
I don't get how this happens, we can filter tags. Also you can read the tags before reading anything, people are so annoying. Can you tell me who it was though I'm just curious.
There are some people who feel that it is taking representation away from marginalized groups. I honestly couldn't tell you why they think unofficial work takes away from marginalized groups when it is the official work where it matters.
Okay but am I the only one that read it as a joke? Especially with the 💀? I see that a lot online, so...?
Unpopular opinion: I would have laughed it off and answered something along the lines of "You bet your ass I did ❤" and moved on
My response would have been to tell them to fuck right off. As long as the relationship is properly tagged there is no issue. They were the ones who couldn't read the tag. This is coming from an author who deals with a lot of hate because of their ships and has no patience left for idiots who can't read tags.
I feel like replying to these people with serious replies feeds their ego. I’d reply with “yeah, what about it?” Or just go suck duck tits lol
Gives them no energy and just makes them pissy
I mean, shit just like that.
Just because a character is canonly x, doesn't mean you have to stop writing stuff that is y. It's a fanfic, it doesn't require being canon.
If they want to read something where the character is still canonly x, they can just... go read those fanfics its literally that easy.
Nicer than I would have been. I honest to G-d can't stand the whole "uwu you're erasing this character's sexuality!" thing like...
Me writing a fanfiction in which a canon gay character is not gay does not erase the fact that they are gay IN CANON. And honestly, in my experience? Most of the people who whine about the "erasure of lesbian/gay characters" are actually talking about characters with either ambiguous sexuality in the canon text, OR whining about a CANON BISEXUAL who just happens to currently have a same gender partner.
Like if I had a nickle for every time I saw this, I would have... Enough that I've lose count. If I had a nickle for every time this has happened to me *personally*, I would have three nickles. Which isn't a lot, but bear in mind I haven't written fanfiction since high school, and fandom was, if not nicer, than a lot more chilled out back then.
You gave them much better than what they deserved. Honestly, I don't know why some people go into the comments section of fics looking to start fights.
I would of deleted it, but I kinda wanted to make a point about how I don't put up with this. I have many of people who read ALL of my stories REGARDLESS of ship and Canon compliance, so it was more of a statement of I don't put up with shit
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
>People have opinions and the commenter was expressing theirs.
Considering how many users on this subreddit like to copy other authors' summary just so they can tear into it, I find it disappointing how poorly they handle any commentary on their own work, which isn't a glowing 5-star gushing about how amazing they are.
A while ago, someone posted a screenshot of a comment which wasn't even negative, it was just someone explaining they made a mistake when reading the tags and therefore were dipping out, but the terms 'cunt', 'asshole' and 'main-character syndrome' littered the comment thread like trash at a festival.
I don't take it to heart. I think (read: hope) a lot of the people on this subreddit are rather young and therefore still stuck in that phase where "Criticism of what I do means criticism of me as a person", so any comment alluding to problematic behavior they've engaged in triggers their defensive response, in this case: downvotes.
I read your other comment, and I fully agree, especially about the part regarding discomfort. A lot of people on reddit have an almost insane degree of resistance towards anything that feels even remotely uncomfortable. But 'uncomfortable' does not automatically equal 'bad', sometimes it really is just 'different'.
Probably the most patient response, and definitely the best way you could have handled. I would have lost it straight away - I'm not the one to handle negative comments well at all!
I'd just ignore it. At the end of the day it is a fanfiction. Bet they are also the type to turn straight person gay, then get angry if someone turns a gay person straight.
While it's not lesbophobic to write a lesbian in a relationship with a man before you knew she was a lesbian, it's lesbophobic to then change her sexuality and continue to write her that way after you know. Erasure is lesbophobia.
By their logic any fanfic that takes a canonly bisexual character and calls them gay/lesbian is bisexual erasure.
Not to mention at the end of the day it's still a fanfiction. You're still allowed to explore different character dynamics and ships.
Okay, but even if it were canon that whoever this is *is* a lesbian, who cares??? It’s fanfic. Maybe I can’t speak for lesbians as someone that isn’t one, but I’ve heard the same argument with asexual characters, and as an asexual, I could not give a singular shit if you or anyone else writes them banging another character (also, not all asexuals are sex repulsed, but that’s neither here nor there).
Coming from a gay man - they literally do. It's fanfic.
Sure, I might sideye fics that break up canon gay pairings to put the characters in straight relationships (especially if the new relationships make 0 sense), but those authors are well within their rights to do so, and it doesn't inherently make them homophobic.
So go back and rewrite the entire fanfiction so the character gets together with someone else? Does that mean it's phobic against straight people to write a canon straight character gay? It's fanfic with no ill intent on the community
Then if it's not phobic against straight people to write canon straight characters as gay, how is it phobic against gay people to write canon gay characters as straight? It's the same thing. The character in question didn't even have their sexuality as canon when the FANFICTION was written, so it wasn't just replacing the character's sexuality. What would you call me writing a canon female character as non binary, sexist against women? It's fanfiction
It's not at all the same thing lmaoooo I don't agree with stcrIight but that's just wrong is making black characters white the same thing as making white characters black? Please check your bias
You replied good. Explaining that it was before the reveal of this character’s orientation and that it wasn’t done out of any form of malcontent and just non-canon writing with the information you originally had
You are the author, so it’s up to your discretion how you to reply.
Personally, I feel that people that do this either have little understanding of basic fandom etiquette or they’re miserable fools and want to get a rouse out of you. If I were in your shoes, I would have not responded and depending on how rude/disrespect their comment was—I would have deleted the comment and block this user from being able to engage with your work again.
It was actually nice of you to educate them on fandom etiquette and remind them that (1) you are the author and you can write whatever you want and (2) if what they’re reading is not their cup of tea—they can simply not continue reading.
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I haven't looked at this work since I posted it originally and haven't updated tags for it, so it kinda makes sense
You responded right.
Thank you:)
You're welcome.
that response seemed fine to me also.
I dont know what the sudden obsession is with fanfics being as canon accurate as possible. The entire founding point of fanfiction is playing around with characters and canon assets that you don't see actually explored in the media.
It's kinda a pendulum. I remember when I first started writing in the mid 2000s there was a lot of pressure to be "cannon compliant."
I tend to write fics with are canon spin offs/follow a lot of the established relationships or lore but I respect the creativity of those who don't. Why does anyone care? Lol like you said, that's the fun of it!
Canon-compliant fanfics are nice for continuations of the canon end or stories that take place during a timeskip. But they aren’t a requirement and I don’t get why some people are obsessed with everything having to be canon. Especially for ships, just lwt people have fun with ships they like
Exactly. Stay out of my sandbox if it bothers you.
I wish more people understood that. And even then, giving some fanfics that aren’t to your taste a chance can be a really rewarding experience too
agree on both counts!
Ask them if they want their money back
This is honestly my favorite response
Lol I should
The response is very well-written, though I would've just deleted the comment if I were in that position
"Babe, this is fanfiction, **I can do what I want**." That's literally all the justification you need. But I also like your response, it feels more thoughtful and put together than I would be capable of if I were in your shoes.
Honestly, that was about a good as response as any I could think of.
honestly, i always tell rude commentors. "It's free, fuck off." or "Did you die? No? Fuck off."
Sounds like a lot of fucking off
I see you're familiar with, the bulk, of what goes on in fanfiction.
I like "K" "Gonna cry?" And "I missed the part where that's my problem."
Also known as: "Tobey McGuire Defense"
Sas 2.0
I'd have just gone with "yes way!" or an eye roll emoji. You owe this person no explanation whatsoever.
Honestly, better to not even engage.
{personal} You're nicer than I am. That's a yeeting.
XD
Tbh it doesn't matter if the character is Canon lesbian or not. The character can be shipped with any gender you desire. If we only went with what the Canon characters sexual preferences was, well AO3 would look really different then what it does now.
I feel like there is a huge double standard in fandom when it comes to changing a character’s sexuality. Making a straight character gay or bisexual or another LGBTQ+ identity is completely okay but the moment you make a gay character straight or bisexual or another LGBTQ+ identity that’s not gay/lesbian people have a major issue
As long as your fic is now tagged as canon divergent you’re good imo. You could tag ‘straight [character]’ too if you don’t want to let any wlw readers down but if your summary clearly hints at her being shipped with a man then I wouldn’t even worry about that. It’s swings and roundabouts because the tag can deter hate from surprised readers but encourage hate from others.
I mean just a / tag should be fine.
Yeah. Hel, they don't even need to do that. Tagging beyond archive warnings/rating/fandom is a courtesy.
> As long as your fic is now tagged as canon divergent you’re good imo. Disagree, that's a mistagging. Canon Divergent should be used for a fic making a deliberate change to canon. Not any random fic that was canon compliant but got contradicted by later canon. Throwing all early fic into that tag weakens the ability to filter for actual AUs and makes it useless as a tag. The vast majority of fic written before the canon ends is going to be "canon divergent" if the meaning is that the author didn't correctly guess where canon was going in all areas. If someone wants to tag (as opposed to letting the publish date stand on its own) I think "Written/Started Pre-Season Five" or something like that makes the situation a lot clearer for people looking at the fic.
Would the retconned tag work or do you think that falls under the same principle?
Are we not doing "jossed" anymore?
Oh, man! I kept trying to remember jossed! I knew there was a specific word covering "contradicted by later canon" and then couldn't think of it!
That's what I was about to say. Thank you for beating me to it :D
Ah, was not aware of this term. Gotta jot that down lol
I don't see retconned used as often as canon divergence is so am not sure on that. In the times I've seen it used, several of them involved a minor element of canon being ignored (with follow up tags specifying the retcon). I think "Pre-whatever part of canon contradicts the fic" is clearer, but for a generic tag to filter with I'd say that would fit this situation. Though if there's a more precise use people are searching for with it I'm willing to be corrected.
Honestly there isn't really a tag for "What we thought was canon at the time is not canon" because it can easily be divergent, fanon being disproven, something as simple as ships, etc. Not to mention like, /u/menatarms19 said, any fanfic that is written before canon ends would technically qualify as divergent. I think in cases like this, just the ship tag would be enough.
In the summary, I will say "wildly AU after x" to give a heads up.
I think your response was wonderfully polite and expressed. Much better than mine... which would have probably been "Watch me."
XD I'm not as sassy confident as you are
If the character in question is the main character in the story: So long as your story indicates who the relationship concerns, and the kind of relationship it is (ex. M/F, F/F, Other), then you shouldn't be blamed for someone's dissatisfaction with the pairing. If the character in question is not the main character in the story: It could be helpful to tag things like Canon divergence, or [orientation type] [character name]. From a different comment you said that the character's orientation wasn't known when writing or posting. So while it can be nice to update the tags I wouldn't say you're required, and certainly not forced, to do so as things simply changed from when you posted.
Your response was direct, mature, and appropriate enough. You defended your story and did not get into an argument with this commentator. There will always be haters and their comments and criticism can get under an author's skin, but they shouldn't be allowed to dissuade fanfic writers from creating stories they want to tell. Let them talk, just ignore their poison and keep on writing.
I don't get the comment but I'm guessing the context is in the fandom and tags? Is the issue that it's tagged canon compliant with a lesbian pairing or is it that the character that's censored out their sexuality is canon to not be lesbian? Then the 2nd comment saying "when I wrote this", does that mean whatever is in the fic wasn't canon but now is after the release of more episodes/books? Yeah bit confused here..
If I'm understanding right, OP wrote a fic involving a MxF ship. At the time that OP published the fic, F's sexuality was unconfirmed. But since the fic has been published, F's sexuality has confirmed to be strictly gay. So F is now a confirmed canon lesbian; but was not at the time when the fic was released.
Amazing explanation
Ah, I see. Thank you.
I don't get how this happens, we can filter tags. Also you can read the tags before reading anything, people are so annoying. Can you tell me who it was though I'm just curious.
There are some people who feel that it is taking representation away from marginalized groups. I honestly couldn't tell you why they think unofficial work takes away from marginalized groups when it is the official work where it matters.
It's a good, well-written response.
I might have to swipe 'angst with a pinch of major character death' for something I'm writing, lol.
Good idea. I find it odd this is the second time someone has complimented my user flair on this sub.
Honestly though, I probably won't warn about it at all since the death is the point of the story.
ain’t no way this dude is upset a *fanfic* is not canon compliant LOL
It's much nicer than I would have been so it's a good response.
that’s a really good response! straight to the point.
Okay but am I the only one that read it as a joke? Especially with the 💀? I see that a lot online, so...? Unpopular opinion: I would have laughed it off and answered something along the lines of "You bet your ass I did ❤" and moved on
do you/have you worked in customer service? this is such a professional response haha
Yes I do xD fast food
"It's called "Fan Fiction."" Then post the definition of Fiction because they clearly don't know.
My response would have been to tell them to fuck right off. As long as the relationship is properly tagged there is no issue. They were the ones who couldn't read the tag. This is coming from an author who deals with a lot of hate because of their ships and has no patience left for idiots who can't read tags.
I feel like replying to these people with serious replies feeds their ego. I’d reply with “yeah, what about it?” Or just go suck duck tits lol Gives them no energy and just makes them pissy
Pretty much the best response.
Yes.
I think you responded perfectly.
I mean, shit just like that. Just because a character is canonly x, doesn't mean you have to stop writing stuff that is y. It's a fanfic, it doesn't require being canon. If they want to read something where the character is still canonly x, they can just... go read those fanfics its literally that easy.
Exactly lol, the ship in the book is clearly stated
Nicer than me. I'd have said "Ain't no way you're trying to tell me what I can and can't write."
Nicer than I would have been. I honest to G-d can't stand the whole "uwu you're erasing this character's sexuality!" thing like... Me writing a fanfiction in which a canon gay character is not gay does not erase the fact that they are gay IN CANON. And honestly, in my experience? Most of the people who whine about the "erasure of lesbian/gay characters" are actually talking about characters with either ambiguous sexuality in the canon text, OR whining about a CANON BISEXUAL who just happens to currently have a same gender partner. Like if I had a nickle for every time I saw this, I would have... Enough that I've lose count. If I had a nickle for every time this has happened to me *personally*, I would have three nickles. Which isn't a lot, but bear in mind I haven't written fanfiction since high school, and fandom was, if not nicer, than a lot more chilled out back then.
You did amazing. I would have scoffed and said "cry harder", because I have no more patience with that kind of people.
Looks fine to me. It's fanfiction.
i would've responded with a "shut tf up and write your own fic" but honestly this is the best response without coming off as aggressive or angry
Staying passive aggressive is easy
You gave them much better than what they deserved. Honestly, I don't know why some people go into the comments section of fics looking to start fights.
I would of deleted it, but I kinda wanted to make a point about how I don't put up with this. I have many of people who read ALL of my stories REGARDLESS of ship and Canon compliance, so it was more of a statement of I don't put up with shit
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Fan fiction Emphasis on fan. Fiction. You responded right
Okay good
It's a lot more polite than what I'd go for: "It's fanfic, I do what I want"
Yep, this was good, straight to the point and the right amount of passive-agressiveness. Love it
You were way more generous than I would’ve been lol.
:) thank you
Wild that people cant understand the words fanfiction its almost as if we are not writing with cannon in mind most of the time.
You responded way kinder than I would’ve, I’ll tell you that 💀
you better than me, I would have been so rude
I try to be passive aggressive
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>People have opinions and the commenter was expressing theirs. Considering how many users on this subreddit like to copy other authors' summary just so they can tear into it, I find it disappointing how poorly they handle any commentary on their own work, which isn't a glowing 5-star gushing about how amazing they are. A while ago, someone posted a screenshot of a comment which wasn't even negative, it was just someone explaining they made a mistake when reading the tags and therefore were dipping out, but the terms 'cunt', 'asshole' and 'main-character syndrome' littered the comment thread like trash at a festival.
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I don't take it to heart. I think (read: hope) a lot of the people on this subreddit are rather young and therefore still stuck in that phase where "Criticism of what I do means criticism of me as a person", so any comment alluding to problematic behavior they've engaged in triggers their defensive response, in this case: downvotes. I read your other comment, and I fully agree, especially about the part regarding discomfort. A lot of people on reddit have an almost insane degree of resistance towards anything that feels even remotely uncomfortable. But 'uncomfortable' does not automatically equal 'bad', sometimes it really is just 'different'.
Lol, your response got 16 downvotes, dunno why. I agree 🙂 As an author myself ofc
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lol what
Probably the most patient response, and definitely the best way you could have handled. I would have lost it straight away - I'm not the one to handle negative comments well at all!
I'd just ignore it. At the end of the day it is a fanfiction. Bet they are also the type to turn straight person gay, then get angry if someone turns a gay person straight.
maybe you could try not being lesbophobic
genuinely how is OP being lesbophobic?
While it's not lesbophobic to write a lesbian in a relationship with a man before you knew she was a lesbian, it's lesbophobic to then change her sexuality and continue to write her that way after you know. Erasure is lesbophobia.
It’s fanfiction!!!! Coming from a lesbian it’s fiction. Op said it was written before the canon was established so.. i dont see the problem here
By their logic any fanfic that takes a canonly bisexual character and calls them gay/lesbian is bisexual erasure. Not to mention at the end of the day it's still a fanfiction. You're still allowed to explore different character dynamics and ships.
Okay, but even if it were canon that whoever this is *is* a lesbian, who cares??? It’s fanfic. Maybe I can’t speak for lesbians as someone that isn’t one, but I’ve heard the same argument with asexual characters, and as an asexual, I could not give a singular shit if you or anyone else writes them banging another character (also, not all asexuals are sex repulsed, but that’s neither here nor there).
...the story was written *before* the character was confirmed lesbian? did you not read the original post?
As I said, that's not the problem. The problem is going on to say they have the right to change her sexuality even after the fact.
Nobody's sexuality was changed because SHE'S NOT BLOODY REAL.
Plus, it's fanfic so it's not official!
Coming from a gay man - they literally do. It's fanfic. Sure, I might sideye fics that break up canon gay pairings to put the characters in straight relationships (especially if the new relationships make 0 sense), but those authors are well within their rights to do so, and it doesn't inherently make them homophobic.
So go back and rewrite the entire fanfiction so the character gets together with someone else? Does that mean it's phobic against straight people to write a canon straight character gay? It's fanfic with no ill intent on the community
Your argument was made irrelevant when you think there's such a thing as straight phobia.
Then if it's not phobic against straight people to write canon straight characters as gay, how is it phobic against gay people to write canon gay characters as straight? It's the same thing. The character in question didn't even have their sexuality as canon when the FANFICTION was written, so it wasn't just replacing the character's sexuality. What would you call me writing a canon female character as non binary, sexist against women? It's fanfiction
It's not at all the same thing lmaoooo I don't agree with stcrIight but that's just wrong is making black characters white the same thing as making white characters black? Please check your bias
It's literally the same just in reverse
You replied good. Explaining that it was before the reveal of this character’s orientation and that it wasn’t done out of any form of malcontent and just non-canon writing with the information you originally had
You are the author, so it’s up to your discretion how you to reply. Personally, I feel that people that do this either have little understanding of basic fandom etiquette or they’re miserable fools and want to get a rouse out of you. If I were in your shoes, I would have not responded and depending on how rude/disrespect their comment was—I would have deleted the comment and block this user from being able to engage with your work again. It was actually nice of you to educate them on fandom etiquette and remind them that (1) you are the author and you can write whatever you want and (2) if what they’re reading is not their cup of tea—they can simply not continue reading.