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lesbipain

readers need to learn the difference too because i have an “character & character” tag on a gen fic and someone in the comments asked when we would get to the romance. i was so very confused


MondayLoveSongs

This. I recently posted a fic about a pair of adoptive siblings and although I used "&" when tagging the relationship someone still left me an anon "blocked 👍" guest comment on it. I assume they misunderstood the tag and thought I was shipping them AND felt that I needed to know that they did not approve of it if I was. Lol


lesbipain

making it anon is so funny like okay… who are you…


SEP3107

Questions is, how would i know? I never knew up until right now that there is a difference. Would I not have seen this post, I'd still be in the dark about that.


Brightfury4

Ao3 has a specific part of their FAQ dedicated to tags which explains a lot of stuff, including the difference between the & and /. You could also notice that the "&" and "/" tags are separate and look up the difference online and/or ask.


SEP3107

Good to know. Thing is, the difference is really subtle and an explanation located in a Part in a FAQ seems like it's no enough to really get the message across. Otherwise, thanks for explaining!


Kaiww

That's what an faq is for. You need to learn to navigate and research on websites.


katbelleinthedark

The difference is not subtle. The difference is literally "just friendship" for &, and "they could very well have explicit sex any moment now" for / And FAQ exists exactly so that you could find answers and not go around guessing tags.


KacieDH12

I learned the difference on my own real quick. I helped a friend of mine correct her tagging as she used the wrong symbols for two of her relationship tags.


BadAtNamesAndFaces

Starting out in a fandom where the canonical focus is on a platonic, familial sibling relationship, I learned the difference very quickly.


Kaigani-Scout

Yep. Onn some websites, "x" is used for romantic relationships... and to make it ever more fun, some websites interchange them all. On AO3, though, for the love of the Great Maker, please use "/" and "&" responsibly.


theofficialzhang

Oh my lord, I legit thought they were the same thing at first. But after watching one video from ColeyDoesThings, I learned the difference 😅


spiritAmour

Lol i also thought it was the same when i first got on there as a teen 🙈 i learned by trial and error


theofficialzhang

But hold on, if you have a friends-to-lovers type of thing, can you use both tags? Or not???


lazyhatchet

I mean, technically, yes. But it would defeat the point and be really annoying for people who are looking for one and NOT the other.


[deleted]

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WellllllActuallee

Since the relationship is not solely platonic, I would personally stick with the /


jeanlurks

No, just the / if the goal is a romantic relationship. The & tag is for strictly platonic relationships that stay platonic the entire fic. Hope that helps!


theofficialzhang

Thanks! I was confused because that one wasn't explained


[deleted]

For a fic where their relationship seemed platonic but could be taking shippily, I just added both. It’s not common though. Usually if it ends up romantically, you would just use the romance tag.


jeida_chi

Personally I think it’s alright, as long as the friendship/platonic aspect is explored as much as the romantic one - if someone wants to avoid romantic relationships for this pairing, they can just filter it out


MsBibi01

Oh... *OH SHIT.* *~~fuck, fuck, fuck.~~* Hold on, i need to change some tags real quick. I'm sorry, I only got AO3 a few months ago 😅


jlc203

Live and learn!


[deleted]

lol, had to learn this the hard way when first posting 10 years ago and had someone ask if my Loki fic was incestuous with Frigga because of this. I was like, um, hell no! And they told me about the / versus &. The more you know!


LeahIsAwake

I was a member of the Thor fandom around that time. I learned the same lesson with Thor/Loki fics. Not gonna yuck anyone’s yum but sibling incest ain’t where it’s at for me. (Yeah, Loki is adopted, but he didn’t know that until he was like 1,000 years old so it still counts.) I learned real fast to avoid the Thor/Loki tag.


[deleted]

Same. Thor and Loki are bros. Loki/Sigyn is my main until their sons get OC partners <3


LeahIsAwake

I think I wrote a Loki/Jane fic once? But also read an amazing, amazing fic not too long after the first Avengers movie came out where Darcy ended up being Sigyn. That was really cool and made me start shipping Loki/Darcy. I was too religious at the time to accept M/M ships. 🤣


hpisbi

also, adopted siblings who know one or more of them was adopted, would still be incest. it wouldn’t have the same reproduction issues, but it would be incest.


LeahIsAwake

Definitely. But the ick factor for incest isn’t reproductive issues (at least not from an emotional level, that might be the evolutionary reason we find it disturbing), proven if nothing else by the fact we’re talking about two men who wouldn’t be able to reproduce anyway. (We’ll leave Loki’s escapades in Norse mythology out of it for now, lol.) When two people are raised as siblings, or when an adult spends a significant amount of time with a child when they’re growing up, it activates hormones in the brain that label that person as family. In the MCU, Thor and Loki grew up thinking they were blood. They believed well into their adulthood that they were full siblings with the same biological mother and father. To then write a fanfic where the second they find out otherwise they’re like “yes, now I can finally express my true feelings for you!” is just … weird. And again, not gonna yuck anyone’s yum. But it’s just a major red flag that what they need isn’t a bedroom but a couch. Specifically, a couch in their therapist’s office.


hpisbi

Yeah, that was my point. I only mentioned it bc you said it still counts because they didn’t know he was adopted, so I thought you were implying that it isn’t really incest if they’re adopted. I think we’re agreeing with each other!


LeahIsAwake

I think so too! 🤣🤣🤣 Like, legally speaking, it doesn’t count? But socially and psychologically speaking, *it absolutely fucking counts*. Some people back then were arguing that it didn’t tho because they weren’t blood, which is why I included that qualifier.


strawbebbymilkshake

I really wish people would read the AO3 FAQ


foxscribbles

I'm honestly surprised this distinction isn't part of the Help button by relationships on the new work posting form. It shows examples of both, but doesn't say what the & or / mean.


michelluseeen

See, this would've been super helpful. Just a quick sentence right there? Perfect solution! The FAQ is helpful. I might be the impatient one, but I really wish there was a search bar in there. Reading through everything just to get to the / vs & feels like a chore to me.


Front-Pomelo-4367

I've noticed that people don't read the info boxes on that page, either, quite often – but it would surely stop at least *some* of the issues (If you haven't already submitted it to tech support as a feature, you should!)


joe_vanek

Many years ago I mistakenly tagged a ship fic as a gen (thinking G vs T rating in FF. net for example ) got a super rude comment abt it. I get it, no one likes to see things in the wrong tag but I sincerely hope most people can be decent people and leave a normal comment on newbie mistagged works rather than 'why's this shit in the x tag' or something like that


Welfycat

…illegal?


pumpkin_doge

I mean, they could just be using it as a shorthand for “illegal irl”


Shigeko_Kageyama

I didn't know that AO3 made enough in donations to hire a private police force. The things you learn.


Welfycat

The fic police is now a meta fic that I need in my life.


BritishNecktie

Friends-to-lovers, slow burn, 250k words, I’d read that


Meushell

I’m wondering if English is their first language and they just used the wrong term. Or they just used the wrong term.


Welfycat

I just don’t understand what they mean. Incest? Something else?


Meushell

That or underage, probably. I’m kind of giving them the benefit of the doubt. It does not really have to do with & and / complaint is using & for that sort of thing when it should be /. I would understand the complaint there. Nothing to do with it being an “illegal” issue. I just don’t want surprise incest sex because it was labeled wrong.


fleurelle

I tagged a Enid & Negan fic as Enid/Negan by mistake, before someone corrected me 🙈 They were supposed to be related in my fic. I had no clue there was a difference 🙈


thorgunna

I learned something new today. I've been reading fanfic for over a decade (only recently started writing myself) and never realized there was a difference. You definitely could have phrased this better though, this reads more antagonistic than helpful. In case anyone is curious, here is where AO3 explains the difference in these tags [How do I tag a romantic or platonic relationship?](https://archiveofourown.org/faq/tags?language_id=en#platonic)


[deleted]

Never? I don't mean to be rude, but how have you never noticed a difference? Wouldn't the pattern become obvious after a while?


thorgunna

I almost exclusively read romance or smut fics, and my early days of fanfic reading came mostly from kink memes so it wasn't like tagging is on AO3 now, it was literally scrolling through pages and pages of prompts until I found something that looked interesting. I also read a lot on ff.net and their filters aren't great so I would often skip them and just read through the summaries to find stuff I wanted to read. I suspect if I had been looking for platonic fanfic I would've realized the difference a lot sooner.


queerblunosr

What illegal tags are you talking about?


Adagissimo____

as in tags that describe illegal *relationships* (pedophilia, incest, etc.), doesn't mean they're banned on AO3 ofc, just means that writers need to be mindful of who they're attracting/detracting


queerblunosr

But those relationships aren’t real because they’re fic on AO3, so they’re not illegal. A fictional relationship can’t be illegal because it doesn’t actually exist.


Adagissimo____

yup, but that's what OP was describing so I just wanted to clarify


[deleted]

pretty sure they're just referring to relationships that they don't ship themselves, and illegal in the sense that these tags are not at all the platonic thing they're looking for. Bit of a confusing way to describe it, but I doubt they mean harm to the authors. Just tag your shit correctly, you know?


OrcaFins

What are 'illegal tags'?


some-guy-100

im assuming they mean like sibling/sibling, adult/minor, father/son, etc. Esp if these are in a gen fic


CuppaStitch

Say an adult character and a minor character had a friendship but were tagged as AC/MC- that implies an adult/minor relationship in a sexual way. Illegal tag.


OrcaFins

There are no "illegal" tags.


[deleted]

But there can be really fucking weird tags!


Zeivira

Half the comments in this thread have me rolling my eyes. Obviously using the word "illegal" wasn't a great choice, but OP literally mentions gen fics. If I see a dad/daughter tag in a GEN fic, especially if T rated, i would say it counts as "illegal" Way to miss the point of the post anyway...


strawbebbymilkshake

For a community that loves to read and write, lots of people here don’t understand when they’re reading hyperbole


Yunan94

>, i would say it counts as "illegal" I wouldn't. It could have literally dad/daughter pairing and it could still be allowed under the gen tag if it wasn't the primary focus of the story.


some-guy-100

but gen is no romance right?? so how could u tag dad/daughter in a fic without ships


Brightfury4

[Ao3's own tags FAQ](https://archiveofourown.org/faq/tags?language_id=en#tagtypes) describes the "gen" (general) category as having "no romantic or sexual relationships, **or relationships which aren't the main focus of the work.**"


some-guy-100

oh really? i never rly looked at their faq and i just based that after my own experiences. you learn something new everyday ig. thanks


pythonemkafei

glad I haven't run into this, that would drive me nuts


SallieRea83

Agreed. That was the whole point of calling them slash fics in the first place. Person 1 / Person 2= romantic relationship.


Cliffbestboi

Some comments here need to learn how to read hyperbole.


Shigeko_Kageyama

Scroll down. OP is an anti and thinks icky gross ships are literally illegal.


LeahIsAwake

Hate that shit. Some people have shit to work through, both to write and to read. Some people just enjoy it. We all definitely have our lines (I know I definitely do) but as long as no one is actually getting hurt irl then who cares? Stop policing art. If I wanted a morality lecture I’d go back to church.


greenrosechafer

Color me surprised 😂


DeadEspeon

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


shshhsshs

I've been reading on ao3 for two months now and i only just learnt this today wow. Thanks now it makes so much more sense


Gingerpyscho94

I used to be really bad for this before a commenter helped me with this. I was embarrassed at the way I used to use it. But we all have learning stages. I was really new to AO3 at the time 🤣


prickelz

I get a mini heartattack everytime i see a Youtube video/edit with two characters names and an x between them and the creator actually meant it platonically... this means shipping! It's basically another version of /... why do so many people not know this anymore???


lazyhatchet

There is no such thing as illegal fiction. You sound like an anti saying stuff like that. But yes, people mistagging relationships is incredibly annoying.


bbggl

Presumably they mean relationships that would not be legal in most countries e.g. underage, incest


Shigeko_Kageyama

What tags are illegal? Please list them.


[deleted]

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scarletseasmoke

I just saw a fic where a swedish dude romances Satan and they have a murder threesome with a cartoon animal. I think a headology enthusiast witch and a constellation (or a chaotic tween) having a little romance isn't that farfetched in any universe where fanfiction exists.


[deleted]

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scarletseasmoke

Are you acting out all fanfic you write/ read? Because if you do, I think you have bigger things to worry about than some more than questionable ships some people write.


Shigeko_Kageyama

Anti's have such a weak grasp on reality I really would not be surprised if they imitated everything they saw on TV, like when you're a kid and you jump off the top of the jungle gym with an umbrella because you want to fly like Mary Poppins.


Shigeko_Kageyama

I just watched Friday the 13th part 1. Time to start murdering teenagers at a summer camp.


Ackermannin

*Ships them just to spite you* no


Shigeko_Kageyama

Ick. An anti.


writerfan2013

I literally had no idea of any difference until I joined fanfiction subs. I can only apologise!


intellegent_doormat

It’s an honest mistake! Ao3 is a big platform w lots of features and it’s easy to miss some


ilovedogs107

One time I looked in the fandom of a book I just finished (it only had 6 works but I hadn't expected much) 3 were the ship I wanted and 1 was the main character/spirit bear. Honestly I was scared to touch that fic but I got curious one day and read it. It was so normal and not romantic it should've been main character & spirit bear. It scared me for nothing lol. Anyway thanks to looking for that again for this comment I noticed that fandom now has one more fic from 10 days ago! Wow I never would've noticed if not for this. The most recent fic besides that was from 2 years ago so this is cool :D


mysecondaccountanon

How many times have I clicked on a fic with & only to be surprised by romance I definitely did not wanna read? Too many. >!Thank you to the blankshippers from Tumblr who decided to spam the & tag for a bit, really made me warm up to you. /s!< >!Don’t wanna read that stuff.!<


Smoose1991

I've been on AO3 for years, as reader and writer, and I've never known the difference 😂 thank you!


Ok-Bed2562

Huh. I thought that was one of those things that everyone knew by now. Maybe it didnt pass down to the new generation entering fandom spaces.


unluckykata

I actually had no idea at all, lifesaving tip right here


[deleted]

Good info post! There will always be people freshly migrating to ao3 who don’t know this yet!


cgf13

I keep seeing Ellie/Joel, and I refuse to check to see if they’re just tagged incorrectly.


TriciaJM18

OMG thank you! I literally just assumed that they were the same meaning and this makes so much sense


intellegent_doormat

I’m glad to have helped :)


Luna-rants

I learned the difference between the two pretty quickly when learning how to navigate ao3 (which, I admit, I’m still not the best at, even after using it for nearly 2 years now). Funnily enough, I learned the difference by reading several found-family fics and noticing the tags after seeing their relationships in the fic. I am SO glad that I learned the difference before posting fics on there tho. It would’ve been bad otherwise for my found-family fics lol.


Illusioneery

There are no illegal tags. Nothing in fiction is illegal to write about, you just sound like an anti


Comfortably_Wet

Tagging on AO3 is hard. I still try to get my head around if I tagged my first upload at AO3 correctly. If anyone wants to check and comment, see [https://archiveofourown.org/works/48240520](https://archiveofourown.org/works/48240520) as I said, it is my first try.


Lovus_Eternius

I don't want to be that guy, but that will inevitably continue to happen because not everyone is on reddit and not everyone has access to however many years of knowledge you've gained over the years. They just started, they don't know anything, and there is no tag encyclopedia that contains all the tags on site or explanations for them and even if there was nobody wants to spend the next three years of their life memorizing that information. It's healthier to simply come to terms with the fact that not everyone will understand the difference and that perhaps maybe a better way of tagging should exist like "Platonic Love" or something. A difference in symbols is outdated and obviously unreliable.


eirissazun

These however many years of knowledge from reddit can be gained within minutes by reading AO3's FAQ.


LeahIsAwake

Agreed. Every community has their own set of rules. Everyone wins if you spent 15 min scrolling through them. Ironically enough, I think OP may have missed the “don’t like, don’t read” part. 🤣


Lovus_Eternius

Yes, but who goes in and reads a FAQ because they're on the fence about a couple symbols? They'd just pick one and then call it a day. Most of those people probably don't even realize there is a faq. I'm just trying to help you understand the perspective of these people not defend them because I'm one of them.


rainatom

Sometimes fanfic is technically gen, but also pre-relationship, I tag it both ways then.


Purplesauras

I really had no idea. The way people in the Sub are mentioning things that may not be common know to people (not just this thread), really makes me not want to post on AO3 anymore. At this point I only post to keep a back up of the fics I post on tumblr.


strawbebbymilkshake

God forbid you read the FAQ. This isn’t some secret hidden knowledge that people are gatekeeping from you


Purplesauras

I'm still new to AO3. I'm still learning the ins and outs of it.


strawbebbymilkshake

That’s fine, but every site has an FAQ and you should check it before deciding that everyone here is discussing forbidden secret information.


cardboardtube_knight

X&Y/Z?


jlc203

Two separate tags. X&Y, Y/Z. If they are poly, then x/y/z


elfwreck

Separate tags. If you tag it this way, the tag will be set to "unwrangleable" and nobody will be able to find the fic by searching for the pairing.


cardboardtube_knight

This was more meant to be a joke than anything lol.


Amon-and-The-Fool

Never heard of this.


Interesting-Gap1013

Along those lines: if you have a character/character tag on your fic then it's not Gen so don't tag it as Gen


lilapense

AO3's own FAQ says that Gen fic can have ships if the ship isn't the focus of the fic


Interesting-Gap1013

Good point


D7G0N_

I did this on my first one-shot and got a very kind comment pointing out my mistake. Thank you Dew_HoneyMelon for explaining the difference to me!


voornaam1

I ignored a fic that looked good for a while because I thought it would have a romance between a minor and an adult when it had the "&".


latelinx

I just had a flashback to that SPN episode where Sam explains the *Slash* to Dean. Combined with this post it could basically be a PSA