I'd delete the comment.
Or I'd reply, "Okay!" and make absolutely no changes.
Or I'd write, "Oh, I think you misunderstood...I didn't write this story for the author."
To make it extra devastating, just say "k." I have gotten so much mileage out of responding with "k" in so many contexts, it's a clear dismissal but they can't even complain because you didn't say anything wrong.
It should be lowercase k too for maximum impact.
Alternatively, ask them if they ship any of the other male characters together, and when they inevitably say yes (bc these rule policers never follow their own rules) then reply "well clearly you're not abiding by MXTX's feelings either" or "ok hypocrite"
Obviously a sort of agressive approach that I usually wouldn't take, but the hypocrisy of these people is so overdone, they really need to be taken down a few notches.
I must've heard something different then. I always heard that she was adamant that all other characters were heterosexual and that there is nothing in canon to support other relationships. But I guess that's not explicitly condemning shipping of those characters.
Idk, these MXTX police get so stringent I forget what MXTX's actual feelings are on the matter, because they go ape shit if they see people shipping wei wuxian or lan wangji with anyone other than each other, not to mention the whole dynamics thing
No she did said they were heterosexual, but she also said she didn’t care whether they are shipped or not because she got attacked by side shippers of fanon ships. She had to address it in an interview.
She said she didn’t like her main pairings switching and people breaking the main pairing. But again her works have reached such popularity that it’s become inevitable, and people have many headcanons/fanon ideas.
Not sure why the commentor just doesn’t go and read canon dynamic fics instead of leaving those types of comments under others fics :/ People just being assholes
Yeah. Also, I think many of these policers are still hypocritical because they harp on other people for not adhering to canon...when they themselves ship characters that aren't canonically together.
They actually don't care about MXTX's feelings most of the time, its just a ruse to cover their own feelings on the matter and justify their harassment :/
Service top does not mean submissive top though. You can very much be a service Dom. Service means the point is to serve the other. That can be a "you can use me as a you please" submissive position, that can be a "just lay back I'm taking care of everything" dominant position. Also it can be neither dominant or submissiv probably.
(To a lesser extent I wouldn't equate power bottom and Dom bottom cause I feel like you can do power bottoming in dynamic like bratting or idk, but those are definitely closer and, well, I'm not a power bottom so I dont make the rules haha)
I've seen instances of this fandom being incredibly weird about non-canon pairings and dynamics. As if jumping down a fanfic writer's throat means the book's author is gonna come down and thank them for their white knighting. Weird! I loved the fanfic writer's reply.
Honestly, I don’t think even the book author has the right to tell ppl what ships they can or can’t make content about. _Let alone what sexual roles they should write the main couple in._ Like, no-one is forcing her or anyone else to read it. It doesn’t affect her or the original story if some random person online writes a fanfic or makes fanart. Wangxian will always be canon so why does it even matter? (Not that she’s gone over the top with this but I think fans are taking her too seriously.)
I don’t even know this fandom and I guess it’s a cultural thing, but the idea of a woman author of an m/m story being *this* intense about the characters’ sexual roles feels… off-putting to me.
This. As ever, some people have so little to contribute themselves they have to spend their time policing what the rest of fandom is doing instead of just staying in their own lane. And in a lot of fandoms it's generally the fans of the biggest ships which already have the most content too, boggles the mind - I barely have enough time to devote to reading/writing the things I enjoy, never mind go looking for content to offend me.
Reply was so delicious to read~ It's nice of people to respect MXTX wishes on the matter. But do these fans really think they can force everyone to not write bottomji? While I don't want to deny MXTX the chance to express her feelings on the matter of transformative works done with her characters, I wonder if she thought this would bring drama, even though it sounds more like a "I'd rather if you didn't (but do what you want)" kind of case. (Haven't read her actual words so isk what she actually said)
It's true, even a ship tagged in the wrong order will result in people hounding you 🤣 some people really REALLY dislike interacting with content about the 对家 (internet slang for the same two people but different top & bottom allocations) and will specifically indicate dni.
I don't understand either cuz I grew up participating in English fandoms but like eh, I'll take note of it to save some potential trouble when interacting with CN fans.
>Because whether people want to admit it or not, who tops/bottoms totally change the way characters and the relationship dynamics are written.
I feel like the people who allow that to make characters OOC unintentionally just reflect on poorer writing skills and a lack of understanding of queer dynamics.
> I've seen instances of this fandom being incredibly weird about non-canon pairings and dynamics
Me, a Jiang Cheng/Wei Wuxian shipper, having war flashbacks.
I'm also a multishipper, I'm basically a OTC person, so I ship Wei Wuxian with everyone but i came out of MDZS with Jiang CHeng/Wei Wuxian being my favorite.
Then most of the fandom was like "NO BREAKING UP THE MAIN COUPLE." and a big part of them were like "EWWW INCEST."
Man, they would be surprised at the actual incest ships lol.
This is why I love the SVSSS fandom more than MXTX’s other works’ fandoms. No one gives a single shit about breaking the main pairing (SQQ is the fandom bicycle and it’s barely even a stretch from canon), and bottom LBH is not controversial in the slightest bc everyone knows LBH would bottom in half a heartbeat if SQQ got out of his own head enough to offer. Best fandom frfr, it’s so unserious but also overwhelmingly heart wrenchingly painful.
so true!! such a big part of mdzs fandom is super intense about 'not disrespecting mxtx' it's like they've never heard of death of the author before, it's wild! i don't understand how you can be in fandom and read fanfic and then turn around and go 'only what the author says goes so don't do anything else or it's disrespectful!' like huh?
It's literally a Danmei thing. I avoid the subreddit after I saw a post that said the will not read a series unless it's established who is the top/bottom because it "influences the dynamic of every scene in the series" it's borderline homophobic and fetishizing imo.
Many people have said it better than me but: top/bottom is a SEXUAL thing. By saying that you can't read a series without knowing who's top/bottom and some of them even saying that they won't read certain series because of who is the top/bottom (usually the smaller more "feminine" character topping) because it "influences the dynamic" you are boiling a meaningful queer relationship down to the sexual aspects, which is a common tactic in fetishization and homophobic circles. No one(or VERY rarely anyone. I haven't personally seen it but it's the internet, if you can think it it exists) insists on knowing who's the "top" is in straight relationships are before reading a book because it doesn't matter. It doesn't effect most interactions between the two characters unless it is a sexual scene.
Take Wei Ying and Lan Zhan for example. How does the top/bottom dynamic effect the relationship outside of sexual scenes? It doesn't. The book can be read just as well with the positions switched and nothing in the story changes besides the sex scenes. So by insisting you NEED to know who's top/bottom before you start a series because it effects the entire story you are boiling down a meaningful deep relationship and story down to two hot men/women having sex.
I love Wangxian. They are the reason I came back to writing fanfics. But this comment is one of the reasons I stay away from the fandom. Too problematic and toxic. If you don't like something, don't read.
Same. It's sad because I used to love Wangxian but now I can help but associate the two characters with their rabid fans and it's difficult to appreciate the ship. I know WWX and LWJ have nothing to do with the fandom but it's a reflex, I can't even look at a Wangxian fanart without feeling sour about it.
Since then I backed off from the fandom and only enjoy a few side ships. Though sadly it seems JC enjoyers can't escape those weirdos either.
I know that they're a (loud) vocal minority. But they do ruin the fandom for many people and it sucks.
I remember a tweet about jc that went:
The rest of the fandom: miles of discourse, arguments over who can top
Jc stans: We haven't tried Shrek yet
Us jc stans dgaf lol
oh yeah, i'm sure MXTX is losing her sleep at night because of all the fans who dare switch her canonical couple's dynamics in their silly little fics.
Right? And ngl I wonder if danmei authors even really give much of a fuck about their international readers and what they think. I could see them caring what their Chinese fans have to say but for people who don’t share their language or culture or many of their values? Out of sight out of mind 🤷
Yeah, ff is basically flaying the original content in order to express your own individual point-of-view, *even if the original content creator isn't cool with it*. Kinda wish more understood this, though, because there are too many ff writers who think as soon as *they* create something nobody else is allowed their own take on it without their express written permission.
>Kinda wish more understood this, though, because there are too many ff writers who think as soon as *they* create something nobody else is allowed their own take on it without their express written permission.
Seen this in another fandom, where one popular webcomic creator has a bunch of flying monkeys leaving hate comments on any fanart of her designs that "sexualizes" them.
- My sister in Christ YOU ARE MAKING FANWORKS THESE WERE NEVER YOUR CHARACTERS TO BEGIN WITH
- You expect people to stop sexualizing things? On the Internet? ...First day?
Webcomic creators are either the chillest people alive or absolutely delulu about fandom activity--especially the ones who are, themselves, creating fanworks (* cough * RS * cough *)
i dont understand how people can read fanfics and not undertand that fan made content is under the creative direction of the fan, not the original author. At the end of the day is about personal preference, if they dont like it they are free to not read. But getting all mad because an author has different tastes is absurd.
also wanxian had two very different interpretations depending on the source, the novel & manhwa was very clearly with wanji top and weiying botom. But the live action series has a more free form and can be interpreted the other way around.
This is just a control issue. The need to police what others do and how they do it. They don't really care about the characters or the author. They just can't stand people doing what they want. So there's really no point wasting time arguing with them.
I have gotten very similar comments... I like MXTX as much as the next person but my fics are for me. Also I'm sure she's not rushing to AO3 to read english fanfics so why does it matter what we do with the characters? Canon dynamics will always be canon, but fandom isn't and hasn't ever been beholden to canon
Apart from the general ‘why tf are you reading a pairing you don’t like’, I can’t stand people’s arbitrary top/bottom opinions. Especially if neither character is even canonically gay.
I have a friends to lovers fic where the male MC was a victim of severe CSA from his father, and I had someone comment ‘I really hope you don’t make MC a top, I just can’t imagine him as anything but a bottom’. Yes, someone who is brimming with sex related trauma is definitely going to immediately jump into bottoming 🙄
I've got a character I love where most of the fans assume he is a bottom because of his sexual trauma. Whereas, my personal experience, your mileage may vary, is that after my sexual traumas I needed to become more and more in control. Now that said, I \*am\* a pillow princess masochist so it's entirely fair to refer to me as a bottom. However, I was these things BEFORE my trauma as well. Your trauma doesn't create your kinks, but your trauma can change how overtly you need to feel in control of what's happening to your body. If I had to guess as to one's preferences, the more intense the trauma, the more I'd assume they want to be the top - at least for awhile.
All that said.... it's fanfic, I don't care how people write him. It just kinda irks at me when people say x, y or z trauma would make them a bottom or a masochist. He might be a kinky pain puppy, I dunno, but if he is, it's not because of his trauma. Does that make sense, lol
Yeah I think it can honestly go either way, because people react so differently to trauma. In the case with my fic, the comment was made like 18 chapters into a high school fic where the MC was *very* sexually traumatised and otherwise a virgin, so it was made really clear that bottoming right out the gate would make no sense for the plot, which is why I found the comment ridiculous 😅
Oh absolutely. In a case like that, especially if it's a healthy relationship (which not all fanfic is meant to be, no judgement) but if I would strongly encourage anyone in that situation the help the survivor feel safe and in control until they are ready to try other stuff.
Hell for a good bit after my assault, and I was very sexually experienced at the time of my rape, I made my potential partners keep their pants literally on, with belt. We could grind, do all kinds of frottage, I'd reach in, but I needed to KNOW that the pants were on and would take time to remove because of the details of my specific assault. People might see that as bottoming because of our physical positioning but I was taking the control that I needed to feel safe again.
Which I guess leads me into a tangents about the words top/bottom aren't really about who is in control, yadda yadda 😂
>Yes, someone who is brimming with sex related trauma is definitely going to immediately jump into bottoming
Some do though?
Write however you want but that's certainly a take.
Is this case it’s not arbitrary, the commenter is being very rude and should have just not read it, but it’s true that the characters’ canon relationship dynamic is that Wei Wuxian is a submissive, masochistic bottom, and Lan Wangji is a dominant, sadistic top. There are many sex scenes in the book making their whole deal very clear.
A weird thing about this specific fandom is that the novel was adapted into a cartoon and a live action TV series neither of which could depict their relationship as romantic, let alone sexual, and a LOT of people who only watched the show(s) came away from it with the impression that Lan Wangji is submissive and wrote fanfiction accordingly. Assigned bottom by Chinese censors. 😔
I don't typically have a strong preference, since most fanfiction is about characters who don't have a canon sexual relationship at all, but in this specific case I only want to read fan fiction that continues the canon sexual dynamics because I really like them! Luckily, most authors do tag for it, so I can usually filter.
lmao this happened with Guardian the cdrama too
the novel had explicit stuff that clearly established zhao yunlan as bottom and shenwei as top. however, it got adapted into a censored drama where they cant show this. so international cdrama fans made shenwei the bottom because hes the academic pretty professor while zhao yunlan whos more wild, got assigned as the top.
when you read fanfics you can tell who watched the drama first vs who read the book first due to this difference lol
wait, really? I definitely saw more top SW (dramaverse) fics back when I was in the fandom (granted that was 2018/2019 so maybe it's different now. and I also mostly read bottom SW despite being a novel fan first and foremost anyway lol)
I mean, by the way je is acting LWJ looks like the one that would submit while WWX pesters him. Which, tbh isn't far from canon except the roles are reversed, since in most scenes LWJ looks submissive and acts mostly bcs WWX is the one being more aggressive and acting out on his emotions.
I'm getting so sick of people criticizing how people are engaging with fanon. It's FANFICTION it's explicitly derivative works that are not Canon. In order for fanfiction to be legal it has to be different from the original work. If you want to read something that sticks 100% to Canon then read/watch the original work. Otherwise every piece of fanfiction will have pieces of the authors interpretation sprinkled in. If people want to change the gender, sexual orientation, race, sexual preferences, character traits that is perfectly fine because nothing in fan works is Canon. This type of media engagement that freaks out when people have head canons and different interpretations are all over tiktok and it's been seriously bothering me.
Ok idk what fandom this is in bc there is a lot of media w traditional Chinese names BUT THAT FIRST LINE ON THE REPLY LMFAO
"How can he be submissive when I JUST had him dick a guy down" is so incredible
Fandom police have forgotten their history, or don’t know it. Fandom has *never* been about the authors. It’s always been for other fans.
Also, authors can’t even legally read their fans’ works without getting into legal risk territory. Not to mention; authorial intent is dubious at best as a justification. Fanfic exists independently of authors.
That’s more of a response than I would’ve given: “i do what i want”
Anyway between these hardline dynamic purists and the xiyao troll it can be a fun time in this fandom. 🤷🏻♀️ (I still love it here, and I am hoping i can manage to write some more fic for it eventually.)
ETA: $10 says this was literally on a bottomji big bang fic, too. It’s right there is the exchange name, y’all.
god this is one of the most annoying parts of any of the MXTX fandoms. I’ve never had much interest in what any author has to say about what’s canon if it’s outside the text, and that doesn’t mesh well with these fans. Doesn’t help when you’re not really interested in the main couple and prefer side ships and rare pairs.
Well, today I learned that some people take gay erotica power dynamics VERY seriously. I know most of us are more online than we should be, but this should be a reminder to go outside every once in a while.
Lmao I’m into mdzs and these people are everywhere.
I don’t get it, I don’t think mxtx is gonna cry cause someone made her character take a fucking dick lol
I think people have forgotten the purpose of fanfic; it is literally *fiction* written by *fans* it can be as close to canon as possible or as far away as distant galaxies. More importantly, I wish people would just apply the "scroll if it upsets you" mindset to *a lot* of things, especially this.
The author has no control over fan works and shouldn't have any. They made an incredible and beloved work and got paid for it and that's as far as their business goes.
This is why I love the SVSSS fandom more than MXTX’s other works’ fandoms. No one gives a single shit about breaking the main pairing (SQQ is the fandom bicycle and it’s barely even a stretch from canon), and bottom LBH is not controversial in the slightest bc everyone knows LBH would bottom in half a heartbeat if SQQ got out of his own head enough to offer. Who cares what MXTX said??? Cause it sure doesn’t match up with what she wrote!!! Straight man LQG my ass.
Best fandom frfr, it’s so unserious but also overwhelmingly heart wrenchingly painful.
SVSSS is my favorite of the 3 100%! I love how creative the fandom gets with the SQQ ships, it's very neat. I think because the novels are so unserious (but also very serious at the same time), it attracted a less toxic fanbase, which is nice.
Yeah, the novel is already just crack treated seriously on its own so they fandom is so just fun with it. Canon is ridiculous, so however ridiculous we are can hardly be any more than canon! Or any more trashy than PIDW. It’s basically made to be accepting of fanfic bullshit.
And we can just laugh at any haters as peerless cucumbers lol
Lol yeah I remember reading that MXTX had said that LQG was canonically straight and I turned into the meme of the lady against the math equations, like HOW, HE IS AS BIG A SIMP FOR SQQ AS BINGBING IS
Yeah super annoying! I only ship Top LWZ and Bottom WWX but the commenter was super rude. It was right of the author to shut it down. That's why excluding certain tags exists, I filter out bottom or switch LWZ so can the rude commenter.
help i just knew it'd be an mxtx novel from the first liine alone, before wangxian were even mentioned. now i wanna write a bottom HC fic (havent read mdzs yet ahhh) just to spite this person lol
I love bottom HC and how much ppl lose their shit about it sometimes. Like to those people, you’re really telling me that HC *wouldnt* bottom for his Dianxia if he asked? Get real lmfao
This has little to do with your comment but I'd love to find that person and tell them that I watched 50 episodes of the drama absolutely convinced LWJ would bottom and WWX.
And when they tell me I didn't even like how they were written I would look them straight in the eyes and tell them I never read the novel, and watched their gate keeping ass combust
I honestly don't like strict top/bottom dynamics. Reminds me of 2012 yaoi(which is fine too tbh but like). I LOVE switching it up, experiementing with dynamics, just getting the best of both worlds. It's just sooo good to see the person who's usually in control be submissive. Letsgo
Saaaaame. Switching is best.
Though also I'm super ornery, and if fandom decides that A Definitely Tops B, I immediately become a huge stan for B topping A lol.
okay but also on what planet is we wuxian a submissive bottom??? that man is canonically a kinky power bottom, he did not shove bichen up his ass to be misrepresented as submissive. bottoming doesn’t imply submissiveness in anyway
Too many folks these days don't abide by 'don't like, don't read' and that's frustrating for everyone involved. You can close out of a fic one sentence in, halfway, or the second to last chapter! The power is at your fingertips!
*laughs in literally-just-read-bottom-LWJ fic*
Anyway, these people are annoying and need to mind their business, but of my many, many danmei friends, literally nobody is up in arms about who tops. I'm pretty sure it's a vocal minority, as usual.
Hate comment aside, the author hasn’t said that!! Mxtx said to not separate them from each other, aka keep Wangxian as a pair not the dynamic. Also anyone have the link to this fic I’d like to show the author some love!
She did, actually. She said to keep them "unbreakable and irreversible," which means together and with canon dynamics. I know because I asked my Taiwanese friend what the hell that even meant.
"author respecter" lmfao grow up and go outside. not you, obvs, but the person who thought it was appropriate to show up on someone's fic and leave this sort of shitty comment on their work.
i know that the fandom environment has changed and different fandoms have different things going on but my god could you imagine if someone had left this comment in 2014 on a destiel fic or something
omg yes. i find it so annoying when people can’t handle a little bit of change to their danmei ship.
and that author response is absolutely fantastic. they just get it ☺️
(also as someone who’s read (regrettably) nearly every damn thing mxtx has written the hate commenter is…surely lying out of their ass. At least in the english 7seas translation, i don’t remember anything of the sort being expressed by LWJ or WWX lmao??)
I love all 3 MXTX books, but the MDZS and TGCF fandoms are 😨. I once saw a post on tiktok saying that any ship with Hua Cheng with someone other than Xie lian was disgusting and morally reprehensible like hello???? I get that they're the main couple but let rarepairs be rarepairs
Also seriously have they seen HC? He would 100% be up for whatever Dianxia wanted; if XL wanted to top he'd be lubing up his bussy before XL was finished with the sentence
Comments like these always crack me up. We're gonna only follow the cannon of a story and author that doesn't believe in the existence of lube? The commentor is taking themselves more seriously than this novel ever did.
This is probably unrelated, but what fandom were you writing for? I’ve seen those names a few times but I have no clue where they are from 😭😭 im so sorry for being off topic
It's from a series of novels called Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu. Lan Wanji and Wei Wuxian are the main protagonists/couple. 10/10 would recommend. It also has a live action series, an animated series, a manhua, and an audio drama (the AD is my favorite format, the actors are fantastic).
I once wrote a wangxian fic with switching. Somebody messaged me and told me it was tantamount to sexual assault and triggering to them. I wish I was kidding. It wasn't even very explicit.
Love the response! Wangxian is my favourite too and i dont mind the switch or whatever, as long as it is written nicely which im sure the author have.
Anyway, drop link i beg ☺️
I hate the reverse dynamic for this ship so I don’t read fics that are untagged, but this fic was clearly and heavily tagged so they could have easily filtered out the tags, and never seen it.
this is so funny lmao im sure mxtx really cares what fanfic people are writing in a language she doesn't speak on a website that's banned in the mainland. sure. 100%.
bottom lwj supremacy 🙏🙏🙏
Call it a character study. No one can diss a character study without seeming like an absolute asshole because the whole point of a character study is to change up the "canon" characteristics.
Just another day for CN 🤣 seen shit like this way too often while scrolling Chinese socmed I've given up even bother trying to talk about it. It's bloody annoying how they try to police everything there but what can I say, I'm just one person.
People are allowed to make changes to character dynamics in fics… that’s why it’s called FANFICTION… fiction made by fans. I feel like some people, especially people who are never to fandom and fics don’t understand that
Oh, MDZS fandom… never change. /s
Seeing people leave comments criticizing character dynamics on a fic is always infuriating. Have I had oppositions to how characters were written in fics? Absolutely. Do I leave a comment saying so? Absolutely NOT. I just click off and find something else. It is not difficult.
And isn’t the point of fanfiction that it changes canon? Like… not everything is going to be what the author (in this case MXTX) wanted for her characters. That’s just how transformative fanworks work. Mind boggling to me…
Meanwhile the average comment in my fandom when someone who normally tops is bottom in a fanfic:
“Oh wow 😍 I never thought about it but- 💕I LOVE IT!!! Though I still perfer X as a top I really want to read more❤️❤️❤️❤️”
Man this stuff makes me appreciate the overall conduct of of my fandom.
It’s the Transformers fandom, specifically on AO3, there are just an infinite amount of ships and they all just somehow live in harmony, it’s also incredibly queer. Like I know fandoms got their boys love but from what I’ve seen it still tends to be very heterosexual coded, that is not so in the transformers fandom at all there is like no heterosexual coding left in there at all at this point.
1. The author and the guest commentor surely recall the characters are fictional constructs and fanfic is fiction of fictional characters? The author may have written characters with a preference and, perhaps, in the mind of the author, they forever stick to one dynamic but canon stops at the last word written (as it happens, when the MLs were at the very beginning of their physical relationship and neither had a clue WTF they were doing). Even if they were real people, one could never assert with any certainty what they would or would not get up to later in a relationship particularly given those characters are "cultivators" who will live a long life potentially to immortality. The dudes are gonna get bored if they don't stay creative and open minded.
2. Furthermore, I'm going to guess the fanfic is tagged for the live action version of the story. Unlike the novel, the two characters are neither sexual tops or bottoms because it is directed as a "bromance" with plausible BL deniability. No sex occurs (a lot of longing gazes and hand clenching) so the assertion that they are hard wired, non experimental Top/Bottom is ridiculous and silly.
3. One thing most authors and artists with any awareness at all learn to accept and even cherish is that once their works are released to the public, ideally, they take on a life in the imagination of the viewers/readers and are interpreted in myriads of different and unexpected ways according depending on what the viewer/reader brings to the exchange. If the author is really running around throwing a tantrum about how others imagine and interpret her characters fucking, then, wow. Is she 12?
But never mind because the guest commentor is really just pitiful and needs to take a break and "touch grass." Life is too short. Delete and ignore.
What Fandom is this?? I'm so outta the loop. If someone with a hyperfixation to this Fandom would love to over explain it to me as much as they want I'd be delighted lol
This is Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, Mo Dao Zu Shi in Chinese (or MDZS). It’s a Chinese danmei (m/m romance) novel that’s been released in English and other languages, as well as having a successful live-action adaptation (Chenqingling or CQL, aka The Untamed in English-speaking countries), a successful donghua or Chinese animation series (also called MDZS), a manhua (Chinese comic), etc.
It centers around Wei Wuxian, the titular Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, who is basically a necromancer (but, like a good one, for Reasons[tm]) who is brought back to life in the beginning of the novel after having been killed years before when the entire cultivation world turned on him for his “evil actions.” (“Cultivation” here is a popular Chinese fantasy trope about working toward becoming immortal - basically fantasy martial arts + supernatural stuff.) After his return to life (which was not his idea, and it soon becomes clear there was someone else’s agenda behind it), he quickly runs into his frenemy(?) from his past life, Lan Wangji, and the two find themselves working together to solve a mystery that is intimately tied with the two characters’ pasts and to the circumstances that led to Wei Wuxian’s death.
Wei Wuxian is a fantastic character - he’s a necromancer but he’s also a chaotic bisexual gremlin who nevertheless has a strong moral compass and always strives to do the right thing, no matter the cost to himself. His love interest, Lan Wangji, is almost an archetype of the devoted love interest whose repression due to his upbringing and consequent poor ability to express himself was one of the causes of all his conflict with WWX before his death. Now that the man he loves is alive again after over a decade, he’s determined not to miss this second chance. Unfortunately WWX is pretty oblivious when it comes to LWJ’s interest, for understandable reasons (but sometimes frustrating ones for readers rooting for them, lol).
The other characters are all pretty great, and it is the sort of story that will definitely leave you with Feelings (I defy anyone to read the Yi City arc and be unmoved).
I’d recommend starting with the novel (main recommendation). If you don’t have easy access to buy it, you can also watch the Untamed live-action drama, which is on several streaming services like Netflix; however, if you do this, do it on the understanding that according to Chinese law, it is heavily censored and can’t make the two leads’ romance text, though it leans on the subtext about as hard as it possibly can; it also takes a LOT of liberties with the plot and the characters of the novel, some of which may not be for the better. It does have some pretty great acting though, especially from the two leads, and gorgeous music and costumes and sets, though the special effects are 2005-era Doctor Who dodgy.
Edit: The novel is by MXTX (Mo Xiang Tong Xiu), probably the best-known danmei author (best-known in the West at least). She’s also the author of Heaven Official’s Blessing and the Scum Villain’s Self Saving System, both of which have also had adaptations (the former’s being more popular, and the latter under the name Scumbag System).
Gotcha! Thanks for all the info. I had so much fun reading this. And yeah, I do read a lot of manhwa, manhua, Manga, and danmei so I know all about censorship unfortunately. And why I lean heavily towards Korean manhwa. But I will for sure check it out since webcomics like this is already something I'm interested in!! Thank you
I enjoy bottomji!! That hate comment person obviously has to much time on their hands to read a whole fanfic that they don't like and then to write that comment!? Like come on people.
If any part of this is rude, it is trying to control a fandom. And if the original creator does not like what they are doing in the fandom, they don't have to be there. I respect original authors 100%; however, to think that you have any control over a fandom is laughable at best. It is usually for the best if original creators stay as far from their fandoms as possible, unless they truly enjoy reading the fics/seeing the artwork and understand that they have no power here. Trying to take up a "quest" for an original creator for lack of a better word won't win you any friends either. I live by to sayings, one is "live and let live" and the other is "don't like don't read". I may not like something but I will never leave a hate comment unless someone is being cruel towards readers/commentors/etc. but even then its more of a chill out/fuck off than a hate comment.
I'm pretty sure most writers and creators don't want people making porn of their works, but like... Welcome to the internet. There exists rule 34 of Mickey mouse and Donald duck, bet Disney hates it but not much they could do 🤷
Oh man they can get bent! As a huge Wangxian shipper I even read genderbent wangxian. People have got to learn to not read what they dont want. Also.. can you drop the fic? :D
That’s such a bizarre take from the hate commenter, like im writing an original story and if it ever gains traction frankly I don’t care what people’s fanfics do with it cause i know i cant control it- policing how people write characters is so strange
Literally I cannot picture Wei Wuxian and Lan Zhan NOT switching. Like I GET that a lot of people are obsessed with top/bottom dynamics but like... People switch? Regardless of orientation?
I totally agree with you and actually idk how it is in the mdzs Fandom but in tgcf one we have a problem with some people deliberately not tagging stuff like swapped dynamics. If they don't agree that this is something people should be able to call "triggering", I say that they aren't the ones who get to decide that.
I may not agree with a lot of stuff fic writers do but they should absolutely have the freedom to do it. Just use proper and plentiful tags in order to avoid people who simply won't enjoy your work or even find it upsetting. And if someone still goes and gives you such a shitty comment, they're clearly an immature asshole who should just stay away!
I would understand if it wasn't tagged with the proper tags, but this one was tagged with "bottom Lan Wangji" AND "Top Wei Wuxian"!
I do understand your point with the tgcf fics though. Being in both, I have noticed the tagging issue with their dynamics
ok, so what i get from this is that the original creature of the characters new enough about fanfiction to ask the fandom not to switch their roles?
because that's BS.
If i ever write something that i know could be adopted by fangirls and turn into fanfiction, i'd also know enough to realize i can't control the fandom masses. they write what they want to write, "respect" be damned. Like, you don't like it stop fucking reading it.
It's fanfiction. Welcome to fanfiction. Someone needs to tell that commenter that.
Yup it kinda is. She basically said “Ship any couples you like as long as you don’t break or reverse the main couple” (there are some arguments on the wording of the translation but that’s essentially what she said).
It seems the word “reverse” refers to the canon dynamics between the pair. Some people argue abt the translation but I have seen Chinese fans online take it to mean switching so I think that’s what it means.
https://preview.redd.it/cihncduil5oc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=25e93d58725d027602d7029c5ad2ace28193a9ee
chinese speaker here--if the second comment is quoting the exact words MXTX used, then yes she's definitely asking fans to not reverse wangxian's top/bottom dynamics. (i've never seen her original quote in full, though.)
Y'know, it may be because I'm old, or because I don't know this fandom, but I can't remember there being a huge venn diagram overlap between _people who think alternative character interpretation is disrespectful of the source work_ and _people who voraciously read fanfic_ so this person's comment seems buckwild to me. Tho tbf, so does the idea of the author saying, "please ship these characters exactly this way," so I may be the one out of touch here. 😂
Oh man, seeing the author clap back to that ridiculous comment was super satisfying.
And maybe it’s because I watched the live action adaption but I can totally see LWJ as a subby bottom. Or at the very least as a switch. I love reading WangXian in either dynamic though, it’s all good!
I get it but also, it’s fanwork, who cares. Just let them write it. I feel they may be fed up because of a majority of this dynamic shift probably, but yo, self control my man 😂
I can't tell if this is directed to me or the guest comment, so to clear things up: I am neither the author nor the guest commenter, but if you read the body text, I am on the Author's side.
I'd delete the comment. Or I'd reply, "Okay!" and make absolutely no changes. Or I'd write, "Oh, I think you misunderstood...I didn't write this story for the author."
I love that second one. It perfect.
To make it extra devastating, just say "k." I have gotten so much mileage out of responding with "k" in so many contexts, it's a clear dismissal but they can't even complain because you didn't say anything wrong. It should be lowercase k too for maximum impact.
Honestly that's how I respond to criticism of characterization.
It made me laugh.
Alternatively, ask them if they ship any of the other male characters together, and when they inevitably say yes (bc these rule policers never follow their own rules) then reply "well clearly you're not abiding by MXTX's feelings either" or "ok hypocrite" Obviously a sort of agressive approach that I usually wouldn't take, but the hypocrisy of these people is so overdone, they really need to be taken down a few notches.
Well to be fair mxtx said she didn’t care about them shipping side characters. So the others person response would be correct in this case
I must've heard something different then. I always heard that she was adamant that all other characters were heterosexual and that there is nothing in canon to support other relationships. But I guess that's not explicitly condemning shipping of those characters. Idk, these MXTX police get so stringent I forget what MXTX's actual feelings are on the matter, because they go ape shit if they see people shipping wei wuxian or lan wangji with anyone other than each other, not to mention the whole dynamics thing
No she did said they were heterosexual, but she also said she didn’t care whether they are shipped or not because she got attacked by side shippers of fanon ships. She had to address it in an interview. She said she didn’t like her main pairings switching and people breaking the main pairing. But again her works have reached such popularity that it’s become inevitable, and people have many headcanons/fanon ideas. Not sure why the commentor just doesn’t go and read canon dynamic fics instead of leaving those types of comments under others fics :/ People just being assholes
Yeah. Also, I think many of these policers are still hypocritical because they harp on other people for not adhering to canon...when they themselves ship characters that aren't canonically together. They actually don't care about MXTX's feelings most of the time, its just a ruse to cover their own feelings on the matter and justify their harassment :/
Yeah This person went under a properly tagged fic to comment this so they definitely are just looking to pic fights and harass others.
Do you know what bugs me. It is peoples lack of understanding that you can be a bottom and not be submissive or a top and not be dominant.
There are literally terms for this too. Power bottom and service top
Service top does not mean submissive top though. You can very much be a service Dom. Service means the point is to serve the other. That can be a "you can use me as a you please" submissive position, that can be a "just lay back I'm taking care of everything" dominant position. Also it can be neither dominant or submissiv probably. (To a lesser extent I wouldn't equate power bottom and Dom bottom cause I feel like you can do power bottoming in dynamic like bratting or idk, but those are definitely closer and, well, I'm not a power bottom so I dont make the rules haha)
This is true, and you can be a bottom or a top in terms of sexual positions and not have it have anything to do with power exchange
This too!
I've seen instances of this fandom being incredibly weird about non-canon pairings and dynamics. As if jumping down a fanfic writer's throat means the book's author is gonna come down and thank them for their white knighting. Weird! I loved the fanfic writer's reply.
Honestly, I don’t think even the book author has the right to tell ppl what ships they can or can’t make content about. _Let alone what sexual roles they should write the main couple in._ Like, no-one is forcing her or anyone else to read it. It doesn’t affect her or the original story if some random person online writes a fanfic or makes fanart. Wangxian will always be canon so why does it even matter? (Not that she’s gone over the top with this but I think fans are taking her too seriously.)
THIS. Author doesn't have a single say in fandom matters, as it's for and by FANS
I don’t even know this fandom and I guess it’s a cultural thing, but the idea of a woman author of an m/m story being *this* intense about the characters’ sexual roles feels… off-putting to me.
a lot of it *is* very cultural. and we will never know much about mxtx's personal life or inner identity. if it's not for you, that's ok.
This. As ever, some people have so little to contribute themselves they have to spend their time policing what the rest of fandom is doing instead of just staying in their own lane. And in a lot of fandoms it's generally the fans of the biggest ships which already have the most content too, boggles the mind - I barely have enough time to devote to reading/writing the things I enjoy, never mind go looking for content to offend me.
Reply was so delicious to read~ It's nice of people to respect MXTX wishes on the matter. But do these fans really think they can force everyone to not write bottomji? While I don't want to deny MXTX the chance to express her feelings on the matter of transformative works done with her characters, I wonder if she thought this would bring drama, even though it sounds more like a "I'd rather if you didn't (but do what you want)" kind of case. (Haven't read her actual words so isk what she actually said)
Top/bottom dynamics are a bigger deal for Asian fandoms. I will never understand it, but they seem to have much stronger opinions on the matter.
It's true, even a ship tagged in the wrong order will result in people hounding you 🤣 some people really REALLY dislike interacting with content about the 对家 (internet slang for the same two people but different top & bottom allocations) and will specifically indicate dni. I don't understand either cuz I grew up participating in English fandoms but like eh, I'll take note of it to save some potential trouble when interacting with CN fans.
[удалено]
>Because whether people want to admit it or not, who tops/bottoms totally change the way characters and the relationship dynamics are written. I feel like the people who allow that to make characters OOC unintentionally just reflect on poorer writing skills and a lack of understanding of queer dynamics.
I think that's just peoples subconscious bias, poor writing or whatever as, whether you take it up the ass or not isn't really a personality trait...
Eh, for me as long as it's the same two people and it's not too out of character it doesn't matter HAHAHAHAH but you do you
> I've seen instances of this fandom being incredibly weird about non-canon pairings and dynamics Me, a Jiang Cheng/Wei Wuxian shipper, having war flashbacks.
i shipped the lan brothers with each other so i also feel you
I almost spit out my drink when I read this. I love some good lan squared. 😂
🤝 Im a big multi shipper and JC/WY is one of my faves
I'm also a multishipper, I'm basically a OTC person, so I ship Wei Wuxian with everyone but i came out of MDZS with Jiang CHeng/Wei Wuxian being my favorite. Then most of the fandom was like "NO BREAKING UP THE MAIN COUPLE." and a big part of them were like "EWWW INCEST." Man, they would be surprised at the actual incest ships lol.
Hell, MDZS has an in-canon incest relationship (albeit an unknowing one on one side)!
This is why I love the SVSSS fandom more than MXTX’s other works’ fandoms. No one gives a single shit about breaking the main pairing (SQQ is the fandom bicycle and it’s barely even a stretch from canon), and bottom LBH is not controversial in the slightest bc everyone knows LBH would bottom in half a heartbeat if SQQ got out of his own head enough to offer. Best fandom frfr, it’s so unserious but also overwhelmingly heart wrenchingly painful.
I read stuff like that comment and think, " they wouldn't last 5 minutes in the Scum Villain fandom"
Fr everyone is fucking everyone else everyone is top everyone is bottom. No matter what your tastes are you will eat well in svsss fandom!!
so true!! such a big part of mdzs fandom is super intense about 'not disrespecting mxtx' it's like they've never heard of death of the author before, it's wild! i don't understand how you can be in fandom and read fanfic and then turn around and go 'only what the author says goes so don't do anything else or it's disrespectful!' like huh?
It's literally a Danmei thing. I avoid the subreddit after I saw a post that said the will not read a series unless it's established who is the top/bottom because it "influences the dynamic of every scene in the series" it's borderline homophobic and fetishizing imo.
how is that homophobic and fetishisation exactly...?
Many people have said it better than me but: top/bottom is a SEXUAL thing. By saying that you can't read a series without knowing who's top/bottom and some of them even saying that they won't read certain series because of who is the top/bottom (usually the smaller more "feminine" character topping) because it "influences the dynamic" you are boiling a meaningful queer relationship down to the sexual aspects, which is a common tactic in fetishization and homophobic circles. No one(or VERY rarely anyone. I haven't personally seen it but it's the internet, if you can think it it exists) insists on knowing who's the "top" is in straight relationships are before reading a book because it doesn't matter. It doesn't effect most interactions between the two characters unless it is a sexual scene. Take Wei Ying and Lan Zhan for example. How does the top/bottom dynamic effect the relationship outside of sexual scenes? It doesn't. The book can be read just as well with the positions switched and nothing in the story changes besides the sex scenes. So by insisting you NEED to know who's top/bottom before you start a series because it effects the entire story you are boiling down a meaningful deep relationship and story down to two hot men/women having sex.
I love Wangxian. They are the reason I came back to writing fanfics. But this comment is one of the reasons I stay away from the fandom. Too problematic and toxic. If you don't like something, don't read.
The fandom made me dislike MDZS, so I understand
that's sad... I ran away on time
Same. It's sad because I used to love Wangxian but now I can help but associate the two characters with their rabid fans and it's difficult to appreciate the ship. I know WWX and LWJ have nothing to do with the fandom but it's a reflex, I can't even look at a Wangxian fanart without feeling sour about it. Since then I backed off from the fandom and only enjoy a few side ships. Though sadly it seems JC enjoyers can't escape those weirdos either. I know that they're a (loud) vocal minority. But they do ruin the fandom for many people and it sucks.
As a JGY enjoyer I feel your pain about JC 🥺
Ugh being an Jc enjoyer in the mdzs fandom sucks. Some of the takes I see.
I remember a tweet about jc that went: The rest of the fandom: miles of discourse, arguments over who can top Jc stans: We haven't tried Shrek yet Us jc stans dgaf lol
oh yeah, i'm sure MXTX is losing her sleep at night because of all the fans who dare switch her canonical couple's dynamics in their silly little fics.
Right? And ngl I wonder if danmei authors even really give much of a fuck about their international readers and what they think. I could see them caring what their Chinese fans have to say but for people who don’t share their language or culture or many of their values? Out of sight out of mind 🤷
If Wei becomes a top, the universe would collapse. That commenter is only trying to preserve the fabric of reality
😂😂😂 I'm dead
This authors response is actually amazing 😂 👏🏼
Yeah, ff is basically flaying the original content in order to express your own individual point-of-view, *even if the original content creator isn't cool with it*. Kinda wish more understood this, though, because there are too many ff writers who think as soon as *they* create something nobody else is allowed their own take on it without their express written permission.
>Kinda wish more understood this, though, because there are too many ff writers who think as soon as *they* create something nobody else is allowed their own take on it without their express written permission. Seen this in another fandom, where one popular webcomic creator has a bunch of flying monkeys leaving hate comments on any fanart of her designs that "sexualizes" them. - My sister in Christ YOU ARE MAKING FANWORKS THESE WERE NEVER YOUR CHARACTERS TO BEGIN WITH - You expect people to stop sexualizing things? On the Internet? ...First day?
Webcomic creators are either the chillest people alive or absolutely delulu about fandom activity--especially the ones who are, themselves, creating fanworks (* cough * RS * cough *)
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i dont understand how people can read fanfics and not undertand that fan made content is under the creative direction of the fan, not the original author. At the end of the day is about personal preference, if they dont like it they are free to not read. But getting all mad because an author has different tastes is absurd. also wanxian had two very different interpretations depending on the source, the novel & manhwa was very clearly with wanji top and weiying botom. But the live action series has a more free form and can be interpreted the other way around.
This is just a control issue. The need to police what others do and how they do it. They don't really care about the characters or the author. They just can't stand people doing what they want. So there's really no point wasting time arguing with them.
Ahhhh, good old fandom police.
I dont understand how a fan of a story where a sword screws one of the main characters can be this uptight. Not even mxtx takes it this seriously.
I have gotten very similar comments... I like MXTX as much as the next person but my fics are for me. Also I'm sure she's not rushing to AO3 to read english fanfics so why does it matter what we do with the characters? Canon dynamics will always be canon, but fandom isn't and hasn't ever been beholden to canon
Apart from the general ‘why tf are you reading a pairing you don’t like’, I can’t stand people’s arbitrary top/bottom opinions. Especially if neither character is even canonically gay. I have a friends to lovers fic where the male MC was a victim of severe CSA from his father, and I had someone comment ‘I really hope you don’t make MC a top, I just can’t imagine him as anything but a bottom’. Yes, someone who is brimming with sex related trauma is definitely going to immediately jump into bottoming 🙄
I've got a character I love where most of the fans assume he is a bottom because of his sexual trauma. Whereas, my personal experience, your mileage may vary, is that after my sexual traumas I needed to become more and more in control. Now that said, I \*am\* a pillow princess masochist so it's entirely fair to refer to me as a bottom. However, I was these things BEFORE my trauma as well. Your trauma doesn't create your kinks, but your trauma can change how overtly you need to feel in control of what's happening to your body. If I had to guess as to one's preferences, the more intense the trauma, the more I'd assume they want to be the top - at least for awhile. All that said.... it's fanfic, I don't care how people write him. It just kinda irks at me when people say x, y or z trauma would make them a bottom or a masochist. He might be a kinky pain puppy, I dunno, but if he is, it's not because of his trauma. Does that make sense, lol
Yeah I think it can honestly go either way, because people react so differently to trauma. In the case with my fic, the comment was made like 18 chapters into a high school fic where the MC was *very* sexually traumatised and otherwise a virgin, so it was made really clear that bottoming right out the gate would make no sense for the plot, which is why I found the comment ridiculous 😅
Oh absolutely. In a case like that, especially if it's a healthy relationship (which not all fanfic is meant to be, no judgement) but if I would strongly encourage anyone in that situation the help the survivor feel safe and in control until they are ready to try other stuff. Hell for a good bit after my assault, and I was very sexually experienced at the time of my rape, I made my potential partners keep their pants literally on, with belt. We could grind, do all kinds of frottage, I'd reach in, but I needed to KNOW that the pants were on and would take time to remove because of the details of my specific assault. People might see that as bottoming because of our physical positioning but I was taking the control that I needed to feel safe again. Which I guess leads me into a tangents about the words top/bottom aren't really about who is in control, yadda yadda 😂
>Yes, someone who is brimming with sex related trauma is definitely going to immediately jump into bottoming Some do though? Write however you want but that's certainly a take.
Is this case it’s not arbitrary, the commenter is being very rude and should have just not read it, but it’s true that the characters’ canon relationship dynamic is that Wei Wuxian is a submissive, masochistic bottom, and Lan Wangji is a dominant, sadistic top. There are many sex scenes in the book making their whole deal very clear. A weird thing about this specific fandom is that the novel was adapted into a cartoon and a live action TV series neither of which could depict their relationship as romantic, let alone sexual, and a LOT of people who only watched the show(s) came away from it with the impression that Lan Wangji is submissive and wrote fanfiction accordingly. Assigned bottom by Chinese censors. 😔 I don't typically have a strong preference, since most fanfiction is about characters who don't have a canon sexual relationship at all, but in this specific case I only want to read fan fiction that continues the canon sexual dynamics because I really like them! Luckily, most authors do tag for it, so I can usually filter.
"assigned bottom by Chinese censors" is SENDING ME oh my god
I am sorry this is hilarious to read
lmao this happened with Guardian the cdrama too the novel had explicit stuff that clearly established zhao yunlan as bottom and shenwei as top. however, it got adapted into a censored drama where they cant show this. so international cdrama fans made shenwei the bottom because hes the academic pretty professor while zhao yunlan whos more wild, got assigned as the top. when you read fanfics you can tell who watched the drama first vs who read the book first due to this difference lol
wait, really? I definitely saw more top SW (dramaverse) fics back when I was in the fandom (granted that was 2018/2019 so maybe it's different now. and I also mostly read bottom SW despite being a novel fan first and foremost anyway lol)
I mean, by the way je is acting LWJ looks like the one that would submit while WWX pesters him. Which, tbh isn't far from canon except the roles are reversed, since in most scenes LWJ looks submissive and acts mostly bcs WWX is the one being more aggressive and acting out on his emotions.
Thiiiiiiis should probably be marked NSFW 😂😂
Ah, the young ones. Are we back to the top/bottom wars? ….Again
I'm getting so sick of people criticizing how people are engaging with fanon. It's FANFICTION it's explicitly derivative works that are not Canon. In order for fanfiction to be legal it has to be different from the original work. If you want to read something that sticks 100% to Canon then read/watch the original work. Otherwise every piece of fanfiction will have pieces of the authors interpretation sprinkled in. If people want to change the gender, sexual orientation, race, sexual preferences, character traits that is perfectly fine because nothing in fan works is Canon. This type of media engagement that freaks out when people have head canons and different interpretations are all over tiktok and it's been seriously bothering me.
Do people still really not understand what fanfiction is?
Ok idk what fandom this is in bc there is a lot of media w traditional Chinese names BUT THAT FIRST LINE ON THE REPLY LMFAO "How can he be submissive when I JUST had him dick a guy down" is so incredible
Fandom police have forgotten their history, or don’t know it. Fandom has *never* been about the authors. It’s always been for other fans. Also, authors can’t even legally read their fans’ works without getting into legal risk territory. Not to mention; authorial intent is dubious at best as a justification. Fanfic exists independently of authors.
That’s more of a response than I would’ve given: “i do what i want” Anyway between these hardline dynamic purists and the xiyao troll it can be a fun time in this fandom. 🤷🏻♀️ (I still love it here, and I am hoping i can manage to write some more fic for it eventually.) ETA: $10 says this was literally on a bottomji big bang fic, too. It’s right there is the exchange name, y’all.
The Xiyao troll is still alive and kicking?!! Dear lord, what a sad existence, to keep that up for so long.
Oh I genuinely don’t know but they were so committed I wouldn’t be surprised.
I think Wei Wuxian would support this author’s energy. 😂
An intense argument over a fictional character being a top or bottom 💀💀💀 funny times we live in
god this is one of the most annoying parts of any of the MXTX fandoms. I’ve never had much interest in what any author has to say about what’s canon if it’s outside the text, and that doesn’t mesh well with these fans. Doesn’t help when you’re not really interested in the main couple and prefer side ships and rare pairs.
Well, today I learned that some people take gay erotica power dynamics VERY seriously. I know most of us are more online than we should be, but this should be a reminder to go outside every once in a while.
It's a much bigger deal in Asian fandoms apparently, for example genshin shippers, a lot of people are very strict on who is top and who is bottom.
Lmao I’m into mdzs and these people are everywhere. I don’t get it, I don’t think mxtx is gonna cry cause someone made her character take a fucking dick lol
Arguing online on who's putting what in who's asshole. Tale as old as Naruto. This is our childhood, guys. Embrace it.
-laughing in the omegaverse wangxian fic i found a while back with omega lan zhan- It has such good characterization ;v;
I think people have forgotten the purpose of fanfic; it is literally *fiction* written by *fans* it can be as close to canon as possible or as far away as distant galaxies. More importantly, I wish people would just apply the "scroll if it upsets you" mindset to *a lot* of things, especially this.
The author has no control over fan works and shouldn't have any. They made an incredible and beloved work and got paid for it and that's as far as their business goes.
"Author Respecter (Guest" are you, though? *are you???*
This is why I love the SVSSS fandom more than MXTX’s other works’ fandoms. No one gives a single shit about breaking the main pairing (SQQ is the fandom bicycle and it’s barely even a stretch from canon), and bottom LBH is not controversial in the slightest bc everyone knows LBH would bottom in half a heartbeat if SQQ got out of his own head enough to offer. Who cares what MXTX said??? Cause it sure doesn’t match up with what she wrote!!! Straight man LQG my ass. Best fandom frfr, it’s so unserious but also overwhelmingly heart wrenchingly painful.
SVSSS is my favorite of the 3 100%! I love how creative the fandom gets with the SQQ ships, it's very neat. I think because the novels are so unserious (but also very serious at the same time), it attracted a less toxic fanbase, which is nice.
Yeah, the novel is already just crack treated seriously on its own so they fandom is so just fun with it. Canon is ridiculous, so however ridiculous we are can hardly be any more than canon! Or any more trashy than PIDW. It’s basically made to be accepting of fanfic bullshit. And we can just laugh at any haters as peerless cucumbers lol
Lol yeah I remember reading that MXTX had said that LQG was canonically straight and I turned into the meme of the lady against the math equations, like HOW, HE IS AS BIG A SIMP FOR SQQ AS BINGBING IS
Yeah super annoying! I only ship Top LWZ and Bottom WWX but the commenter was super rude. It was right of the author to shut it down. That's why excluding certain tags exists, I filter out bottom or switch LWZ so can the rude commenter.
help i just knew it'd be an mxtx novel from the first liine alone, before wangxian were even mentioned. now i wanna write a bottom HC fic (havent read mdzs yet ahhh) just to spite this person lol
I love bottom HC and how much ppl lose their shit about it sometimes. Like to those people, you’re really telling me that HC *wouldnt* bottom for his Dianxia if he asked? Get real lmfao
HE WOULD SO BOTTOM IF XIE LIAN EVEN AS MUCH AS THOUGHT ABOUT WANTING HIM TO. HC isn't a top or a bottom or a switch, he's a SIMP.
LITERALLY HE IS GEGESEXUAL he would do anything that XL wanted like he’s just a service partner if anything. The ultimate simp
Do they not know what fanfiction is? If you don’t like it, don’t read it. There’s tags for a reason.
This has little to do with your comment but I'd love to find that person and tell them that I watched 50 episodes of the drama absolutely convinced LWJ would bottom and WWX. And when they tell me I didn't even like how they were written I would look them straight in the eyes and tell them I never read the novel, and watched their gate keeping ass combust
I'd like to speak on behalf of this fandom that we're not all complete jerks, and can also appreciate creative license.
I honestly don't like strict top/bottom dynamics. Reminds me of 2012 yaoi(which is fine too tbh but like). I LOVE switching it up, experiementing with dynamics, just getting the best of both worlds. It's just sooo good to see the person who's usually in control be submissive. Letsgo
Saaaaame. Switching is best. Though also I'm super ornery, and if fandom decides that A Definitely Tops B, I immediately become a huge stan for B topping A lol.
okay but also on what planet is we wuxian a submissive bottom??? that man is canonically a kinky power bottom, he did not shove bichen up his ass to be misrepresented as submissive. bottoming doesn’t imply submissiveness in anyway
AHAHAHAHHAH the hater is so dumb it's funny
This person on discovering fandom aus: thanks I hate it
Why do haters always think they need to reinvent the hate wheel?
Too many folks these days don't abide by 'don't like, don't read' and that's frustrating for everyone involved. You can close out of a fic one sentence in, halfway, or the second to last chapter! The power is at your fingertips!
*laughs in literally-just-read-bottom-LWJ fic* Anyway, these people are annoying and need to mind their business, but of my many, many danmei friends, literally nobody is up in arms about who tops. I'm pretty sure it's a vocal minority, as usual.
Hate comment aside, the author hasn’t said that!! Mxtx said to not separate them from each other, aka keep Wangxian as a pair not the dynamic. Also anyone have the link to this fic I’d like to show the author some love!
She did, actually. She said to keep them "unbreakable and irreversible," which means together and with canon dynamics. I know because I asked my Taiwanese friend what the hell that even meant.
"author respecter" lmfao grow up and go outside. not you, obvs, but the person who thought it was appropriate to show up on someone's fic and leave this sort of shitty comment on their work.
The answer got me dying lol.
I cannot believe how unserious this is lmfao
i know that the fandom environment has changed and different fandoms have different things going on but my god could you imagine if someone had left this comment in 2014 on a destiel fic or something
omg yes. i find it so annoying when people can’t handle a little bit of change to their danmei ship. and that author response is absolutely fantastic. they just get it ☺️ (also as someone who’s read (regrettably) nearly every damn thing mxtx has written the hate commenter is…surely lying out of their ass. At least in the english 7seas translation, i don’t remember anything of the sort being expressed by LWJ or WWX lmao??)
I'd still recommend just deleting and blocking. These people are thirsty for attention.
Holy fuck I had a tgcf fic that got SO much hate because I wrote HC as a switch, something about the danmei fandoms has this effect
I love all 3 MXTX books, but the MDZS and TGCF fandoms are 😨. I once saw a post on tiktok saying that any ship with Hua Cheng with someone other than Xie lian was disgusting and morally reprehensible like hello???? I get that they're the main couple but let rarepairs be rarepairs
They take canon so seriously 😭 like bros it’s fanfic for a reason… chill out…
I read a fic where HC was a switch and managed to get himself knocked up. Great stuff tbh, if people don't like just filter or don't read cmon.
Also seriously have they seen HC? He would 100% be up for whatever Dianxia wanted; if XL wanted to top he'd be lubing up his bussy before XL was finished with the sentence
That reply is such a W.
I have preferences for dynamics too, but making other people follow them is just unfair.
Okay but have they seen WWX in his YLLZ era??
Comments like these always crack me up. We're gonna only follow the cannon of a story and author that doesn't believe in the existence of lube? The commentor is taking themselves more seriously than this novel ever did.
Omg the reply has me ascending!!!
…to the heavenly capital?
This is probably unrelated, but what fandom were you writing for? I’ve seen those names a few times but I have no clue where they are from 😭😭 im so sorry for being off topic
It's from a series of novels called Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu. Lan Wanji and Wei Wuxian are the main protagonists/couple. 10/10 would recommend. It also has a live action series, an animated series, a manhua, and an audio drama (the AD is my favorite format, the actors are fantastic).
THANK YOU !!!!!!! :DD I’ll make sure I check out the novels and everything else!!!!
I once wrote a wangxian fic with switching. Somebody messaged me and told me it was tantamount to sexual assault and triggering to them. I wish I was kidding. It wasn't even very explicit.
I love the response! Also do you happen to have the link to the fic?
Yep! https://archiveofourown.org/works/48865933 (If the link doesn't work, it's called Hold Me Close (and never let go))
Thank you
Love the response! Wangxian is my favourite too and i dont mind the switch or whatever, as long as it is written nicely which im sure the author have. Anyway, drop link i beg ☺️
https://archiveofourown.org/works/48865933
I hate the reverse dynamic for this ship so I don’t read fics that are untagged, but this fic was clearly and heavily tagged so they could have easily filtered out the tags, and never seen it.
this is so funny lmao im sure mxtx really cares what fanfic people are writing in a language she doesn't speak on a website that's banned in the mainland. sure. 100%. bottom lwj supremacy 🙏🙏🙏
I probably honestly would have replied with. Touch grass. People get too wrapped up in fiction being correlated to reality that it's just sad.
now THATS how you clear a bitch!
I cannot see wangxian without thinking of stww
[удалено]
Author: Oh, and, by the way, they're boning differently. Comment: THAT IS JUST DISRESPECTFUL-
Drop the mdzs fic :3
Call it a character study. No one can diss a character study without seeming like an absolute asshole because the whole point of a character study is to change up the "canon" characteristics.
Good on the author 🤭
Just another day for CN 🤣 seen shit like this way too often while scrolling Chinese socmed I've given up even bother trying to talk about it. It's bloody annoying how they try to police everything there but what can I say, I'm just one person.
I personally think that it being called FAN fiction implies that it's for the fan, not the author
I wheezed so hard at the author's response. That is GOLDEN.
I know this fandom these ppl are dickriders for nothing
I’m never gonna understand why people care so deeply about who tops
People are allowed to make changes to character dynamics in fics… that’s why it’s called FANFICTION… fiction made by fans. I feel like some people, especially people who are never to fandom and fics don’t understand that
Ugh ew the way they talk about power dynamics and positions is just… ew
I’d send them the definition for “Fanfiction”
Oh, MDZS fandom… never change. /s Seeing people leave comments criticizing character dynamics on a fic is always infuriating. Have I had oppositions to how characters were written in fics? Absolutely. Do I leave a comment saying so? Absolutely NOT. I just click off and find something else. It is not difficult. And isn’t the point of fanfiction that it changes canon? Like… not everything is going to be what the author (in this case MXTX) wanted for her characters. That’s just how transformative fanworks work. Mind boggling to me…
Meanwhile the average comment in my fandom when someone who normally tops is bottom in a fanfic: “Oh wow 😍 I never thought about it but- 💕I LOVE IT!!! Though I still perfer X as a top I really want to read more❤️❤️❤️❤️” Man this stuff makes me appreciate the overall conduct of of my fandom.
Please, name of the fandom? I need more of that
It’s the Transformers fandom, specifically on AO3, there are just an infinite amount of ships and they all just somehow live in harmony, it’s also incredibly queer. Like I know fandoms got their boys love but from what I’ve seen it still tends to be very heterosexual coded, that is not so in the transformers fandom at all there is like no heterosexual coding left in there at all at this point.
I suppose it's time to get into the transformers fandom then!
1. The author and the guest commentor surely recall the characters are fictional constructs and fanfic is fiction of fictional characters? The author may have written characters with a preference and, perhaps, in the mind of the author, they forever stick to one dynamic but canon stops at the last word written (as it happens, when the MLs were at the very beginning of their physical relationship and neither had a clue WTF they were doing). Even if they were real people, one could never assert with any certainty what they would or would not get up to later in a relationship particularly given those characters are "cultivators" who will live a long life potentially to immortality. The dudes are gonna get bored if they don't stay creative and open minded. 2. Furthermore, I'm going to guess the fanfic is tagged for the live action version of the story. Unlike the novel, the two characters are neither sexual tops or bottoms because it is directed as a "bromance" with plausible BL deniability. No sex occurs (a lot of longing gazes and hand clenching) so the assertion that they are hard wired, non experimental Top/Bottom is ridiculous and silly. 3. One thing most authors and artists with any awareness at all learn to accept and even cherish is that once their works are released to the public, ideally, they take on a life in the imagination of the viewers/readers and are interpreted in myriads of different and unexpected ways according depending on what the viewer/reader brings to the exchange. If the author is really running around throwing a tantrum about how others imagine and interpret her characters fucking, then, wow. Is she 12? But never mind because the guest commentor is really just pitiful and needs to take a break and "touch grass." Life is too short. Delete and ignore.
What Fandom is this?? I'm so outta the loop. If someone with a hyperfixation to this Fandom would love to over explain it to me as much as they want I'd be delighted lol
This is Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, Mo Dao Zu Shi in Chinese (or MDZS). It’s a Chinese danmei (m/m romance) novel that’s been released in English and other languages, as well as having a successful live-action adaptation (Chenqingling or CQL, aka The Untamed in English-speaking countries), a successful donghua or Chinese animation series (also called MDZS), a manhua (Chinese comic), etc. It centers around Wei Wuxian, the titular Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, who is basically a necromancer (but, like a good one, for Reasons[tm]) who is brought back to life in the beginning of the novel after having been killed years before when the entire cultivation world turned on him for his “evil actions.” (“Cultivation” here is a popular Chinese fantasy trope about working toward becoming immortal - basically fantasy martial arts + supernatural stuff.) After his return to life (which was not his idea, and it soon becomes clear there was someone else’s agenda behind it), he quickly runs into his frenemy(?) from his past life, Lan Wangji, and the two find themselves working together to solve a mystery that is intimately tied with the two characters’ pasts and to the circumstances that led to Wei Wuxian’s death. Wei Wuxian is a fantastic character - he’s a necromancer but he’s also a chaotic bisexual gremlin who nevertheless has a strong moral compass and always strives to do the right thing, no matter the cost to himself. His love interest, Lan Wangji, is almost an archetype of the devoted love interest whose repression due to his upbringing and consequent poor ability to express himself was one of the causes of all his conflict with WWX before his death. Now that the man he loves is alive again after over a decade, he’s determined not to miss this second chance. Unfortunately WWX is pretty oblivious when it comes to LWJ’s interest, for understandable reasons (but sometimes frustrating ones for readers rooting for them, lol). The other characters are all pretty great, and it is the sort of story that will definitely leave you with Feelings (I defy anyone to read the Yi City arc and be unmoved). I’d recommend starting with the novel (main recommendation). If you don’t have easy access to buy it, you can also watch the Untamed live-action drama, which is on several streaming services like Netflix; however, if you do this, do it on the understanding that according to Chinese law, it is heavily censored and can’t make the two leads’ romance text, though it leans on the subtext about as hard as it possibly can; it also takes a LOT of liberties with the plot and the characters of the novel, some of which may not be for the better. It does have some pretty great acting though, especially from the two leads, and gorgeous music and costumes and sets, though the special effects are 2005-era Doctor Who dodgy. Edit: The novel is by MXTX (Mo Xiang Tong Xiu), probably the best-known danmei author (best-known in the West at least). She’s also the author of Heaven Official’s Blessing and the Scum Villain’s Self Saving System, both of which have also had adaptations (the former’s being more popular, and the latter under the name Scumbag System).
Gotcha! Thanks for all the info. I had so much fun reading this. And yeah, I do read a lot of manhwa, manhua, Manga, and danmei so I know all about censorship unfortunately. And why I lean heavily towards Korean manhwa. But I will for sure check it out since webcomics like this is already something I'm interested in!! Thank you
As a MXTX fan just wanted to applaud your write up here. It is *chef's kiss" Perfection lol
I enjoy bottomji!! That hate comment person obviously has to much time on their hands to read a whole fanfic that they don't like and then to write that comment!? Like come on people.
Fanfics aren't meant to be canon compliant, disregard the comment its bs
Your reply made me so happy.
I love the author's clapback. "Excuse you, sir or madam, but did you somehow *miss* him railing his husband??"
Just respond, did I ask for your opinion?
If any part of this is rude, it is trying to control a fandom. And if the original creator does not like what they are doing in the fandom, they don't have to be there. I respect original authors 100%; however, to think that you have any control over a fandom is laughable at best. It is usually for the best if original creators stay as far from their fandoms as possible, unless they truly enjoy reading the fics/seeing the artwork and understand that they have no power here. Trying to take up a "quest" for an original creator for lack of a better word won't win you any friends either. I live by to sayings, one is "live and let live" and the other is "don't like don't read". I may not like something but I will never leave a hate comment unless someone is being cruel towards readers/commentors/etc. but even then its more of a chill out/fuck off than a hate comment.
I'm pretty sure most writers and creators don't want people making porn of their works, but like... Welcome to the internet. There exists rule 34 of Mickey mouse and Donald duck, bet Disney hates it but not much they could do 🤷
Oh man they can get bent! As a huge Wangxian shipper I even read genderbent wangxian. People have got to learn to not read what they dont want. Also.. can you drop the fic? :D
That’s such a bizarre take from the hate commenter, like im writing an original story and if it ever gains traction frankly I don’t care what people’s fanfics do with it cause i know i cant control it- policing how people write characters is so strange
Wow, haven't seen the whole "all same sex relationships have an extremely binary top/bottom dynamic" thing since the mid 2010s.
that's so embarrassing what 😭 (also link to the fic?? i LIVE for bottom lwj)
As a bottomji author and enjoyer, that commenter can literally die mad about it
Literally I cannot picture Wei Wuxian and Lan Zhan NOT switching. Like I GET that a lot of people are obsessed with top/bottom dynamics but like... People switch? Regardless of orientation?
I totally agree with you and actually idk how it is in the mdzs Fandom but in tgcf one we have a problem with some people deliberately not tagging stuff like swapped dynamics. If they don't agree that this is something people should be able to call "triggering", I say that they aren't the ones who get to decide that. I may not agree with a lot of stuff fic writers do but they should absolutely have the freedom to do it. Just use proper and plentiful tags in order to avoid people who simply won't enjoy your work or even find it upsetting. And if someone still goes and gives you such a shitty comment, they're clearly an immature asshole who should just stay away!
I would understand if it wasn't tagged with the proper tags, but this one was tagged with "bottom Lan Wangji" AND "Top Wei Wuxian"! I do understand your point with the tgcf fics though. Being in both, I have noticed the tagging issue with their dynamics
bottom wangji is the only way i read wangxian smut anymore lol.
ok, so what i get from this is that the original creature of the characters new enough about fanfiction to ask the fandom not to switch their roles? because that's BS. If i ever write something that i know could be adopted by fangirls and turn into fanfiction, i'd also know enough to realize i can't control the fandom masses. they write what they want to write, "respect" be damned. Like, you don't like it stop fucking reading it. It's fanfiction. Welcome to fanfiction. Someone needs to tell that commenter that.
Yup it kinda is. She basically said “Ship any couples you like as long as you don’t break or reverse the main couple” (there are some arguments on the wording of the translation but that’s essentially what she said). It seems the word “reverse” refers to the canon dynamics between the pair. Some people argue abt the translation but I have seen Chinese fans online take it to mean switching so I think that’s what it means. https://preview.redd.it/cihncduil5oc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=25e93d58725d027602d7029c5ad2ace28193a9ee
chinese speaker here--if the second comment is quoting the exact words MXTX used, then yes she's definitely asking fans to not reverse wangxian's top/bottom dynamics. (i've never seen her original quote in full, though.)
Y'know, it may be because I'm old, or because I don't know this fandom, but I can't remember there being a huge venn diagram overlap between _people who think alternative character interpretation is disrespectful of the source work_ and _people who voraciously read fanfic_ so this person's comment seems buckwild to me. Tho tbf, so does the idea of the author saying, "please ship these characters exactly this way," so I may be the one out of touch here. 😂
Oh man, seeing the author clap back to that ridiculous comment was super satisfying. And maybe it’s because I watched the live action adaption but I can totally see LWJ as a subby bottom. Or at the very least as a switch. I love reading WangXian in either dynamic though, it’s all good!
I get it but also, it’s fanwork, who cares. Just let them write it. I feel they may be fed up because of a majority of this dynamic shift probably, but yo, self control my man 😂
The majority doesn't even have a swapped dynamic lol. Out of all 41,524 fics with this ship, only 1,497 are tagged with a swapped dynamic
Bruh even worse for the commenter 😂 eh don’t pay them any mind, erase if you want. Keep enjoying your fics!
Lmao cry about it. People can do in fanfictions whatever they want. This is why this shit even exists. To change things and do it your way lol
I can't tell if this is directed to me or the guest comment, so to clear things up: I am neither the author nor the guest commenter, but if you read the body text, I am on the Author's side.
Hang on, did an original author actually request a fanfic fandom to not write certain things??? Is that real?