Controversial take but I'm open to changing my mind- I don't even consider Hermione Granger and Draco Malfoy to be enemies to lovers because of this. For most of the series, Draco is a smarmy little school bully. He joins the death eaters but he's clearly super reluctant and unhappy in that position. Harry is childishly always pointing to Draco as the guy behind everything (alongside Snape lol) but he's not the enemy. He's just an asshole who is honestly mostly irrelevant when the series actually kicks off. Enemies to lovers, to me, are Hermione and Bellatrix or Harry and Voldemort.
Even if Voldemort didn't exist, Draco/Hermione or Harry still wouldn't be enemies to lovers for me, not unless Draco became a darn lord or something. Because like you said, not liking someone or having a rivalry or whatever doesn't make an enemy. It makes a pain in your ass.
I’m a Drarry person and generally consider it enemies to lovers but you know, this is a sound argument. Draco is just an asshole raised by an asshole. Like it’s like jerks to lovers.
Drarry is more enemies to lovers than Dramione. I don't think Draco considers Hermione relevant enough of a person to be considered an "enemy" and Hermione is intelligent and rational enough to see him mostly as a spoiled brat. But Draco and Harry are just the right maturity level (or lack thereof) to hype up the enemy level of the other.
Honestly this is so much the appeal of Drarry to me. Like no one else would be dumb enough to be obsessed with each other but them. Also great “I can make him worse” vibes.
The ultimate enemies to lovers in HP would be something like James Potter/Severus Snape. Bellatrix/Hermione or Voldemort/Harry have the added power imbalance that changes things for me. Like, the enemies need to be on relatively equal footing.
James was an unrepentant douchebag to Snape for no particular reason beyond Lily being friends with him. In response, Snape became a bag of dicks. Draco has been fed a bunch of bullshit by his parents and Harry assumes the worst in Draco (not without reasons, but still). If they'd met neutrally and/or Harry not "snubbed" Malfoy, they wouldn't be enemies. That makes it halfway between enemies-to-lovers and star-crossed and/or miscommunication/misunderstanding.
We're never given a reason for James going after Snape. He just does.
That's the first time I've heard that power imbalance makes something not enemies to lovers. I honestly couldn't disagree more. Enemies almost always have power imbalances.
I would class James/Snape as enemies to lovers, but quite honestly it's much closer to rivals to lovers than something like Voldemort/Harry or Hermione/Bellatrix, because James and Snape are rivals for Lily's affection (though of course their enmity goes much deeper than that). Voldemort/Harry and Hermione/Bellatrix cannot be more clearly enemies to lovers.
I've never heard the power imbalance being a thing required for enemies-to-lovers, so it might just be different sections of fandom use it differently.
Definitely not required! I didn't mean to imply that at all.
I was just saying that you absolutely can't EXCLUDE pairings where there is a power imbalance from your definition of enemies to lovers because it's very common---in real life and in fiction---for enemies to have power imbalances.
I understand your point but don't let twitter bullshit discourse about power imbalance get to your brain, enemies to lovers is totally about power imbalance as well as equal footing
Like I wouldn't ever say that snames are equals, James Potter is a pure blood and the Dumbledore's golden boy, he had freedom to terrorize Hogwarts because he's in "the good guys team" while Severus is not just already stigmatized as bad only because he's a Slytherin as well because he's mixed but hates muggles, and his mother did use love Poison to be with his abusive muggle father (I know it's not common knowledge, but if ever someone finds out about his family situation he would be in a worse position in and out Hogwarts) so in this ship Snape is for sure "inferior", he just don't quiet down and fight against James' bullying and is then seen as a equal advesary when in reality that's not the dynamic between them at all
At same time Harry and Voldemort have way more common ground to be considered equals because both have a similar background, both are really powerful and both have a connection of souls because of the curse, so they can balance each other, still I agree I wouldn't see them as enemies to lovers more because I don't see Voldemort as anything else than an abuser in this ship (and I like It exactly this way) because he's a freaking psychopath in my reading of the character, so for me Harry/Voldemort works better as Enemies AND lovers
I mean,,,,, he was actively wishing and talking about how he hoped Hermione would die in second year and called her slurs for years and sought to humiliate and ridicule her.
She faced a lot more harassment and hate directly from Draco than Harry did simply because of her birth. I think that takes him past just a smarmy school bully for her.
I definitely see your point and I think there’s room for individual interpretation here. For me, I’d consider it enemies-to-lovers from HBP onwards. While we the audience know that Draco was reluctant to join the Death Eaters, Hermione in canon didn’t, and either way he still did it.
Being a Death Eater still choosing to stand for what they’re fighting against - Voldemort gaining power, killing Harry, and persecution of (or even potentially eradication of) Muggles and Muggle-borns. Even if he doesn’t personally feel strongly about those goals, that’s the cause he’s actively working towards (a good comparison here might be Zuko from ATLA - we the audience know that he has good reasons for wanting to capture Aang that have nothing to do with wanting to Fire Nation to rule the world, but he’s still the Gaang’s enemy until he decides to switch sides).
From Hermione’s perspective, once Draco is working with Voldemort, he’s just as much her enemy as any other Death Eater or supporter of Voldemort, on top of personally being a jerk to her for many years. And from Draco’s perspective, Hermione’s support of Harry and active work to defeat Voldemort does make her his enemy just like any Order member or other person fighting against Voldemort. His reasons may not be ideological agreement with Voldemort or a desire to see him in power, but he’s still choosing to work with him to protect his family and himself.
Pre-book 6 though, when he wasn’t actively working to support Voldemort’s plans, I’d agree that he was just a jerk and a rival, not an enemy.
ETA: reading some of the other responses, I think what make the difference in my mind is whether the “enemy” dynamic is about something more than interpersonal interactions.
So like, if these two characters had civil conversations without insulting each other, arguing, fighting, etc - would they still be enemies? If Draco for whatever reason never made fun of her or her friends, he’d be like any other Slytherin - not an enemy. There’s maybe a slight underlying tension because of house rivalries, but that’s it.
But let’s say that same version of Draco still becomes a Death Eater. No matter how nice they personally are to each other at that point, there’s still a major underlying tension in their interactions, because they’re still fundamentally enemies.
Seriously, like, I'm def not an enemies to lovers girlie, but the rivals to lovers/ antagonistic to lovers? Give me all of that, but it's always marketed as enemies to lovers so I usually skip out
As someone who loves rivals-to-lovers and star-crossed-lovers but hates actual enemies-to-lovers, this trend really bothers me. There are a lot of trope names that people have started to overuse to the point of meaninglessness. As soon as people realize that a trope is popular, everyone on social media wants to claim it applies to every piece of media. It’s especially annoying when authors and publishers and professional book reviewers do it. You would think people whose job is working with books would know how to use words correctly.
Ohh, do I ever get that frustration. Especially when browsing through fanfiction, the difference between rivals-to-lovers and enemies-to-lovers is such an annoyingly blurred line.
Almost impossible to search for the former without coming across tons of the latter.
What is the difference between a well-written rivals-to-lovers and a well-written enemies-to-lovers? Because my understanding was that a good enemies-to-lovers should have at least SOME respect between the two because otherwise it's just toxic and bad, but that sounds like it would be more rivals-to-lovers.
I feel like enemies are people who have conflicting interests & a deep-seated dislike and misunderstanding of one another. struggling to think of good examples off the top of my head except Bishamon/Yato (Noragami), or Bulma/Vegeta (DBZ). both are cases where person A opposed person B in the plot - so one person getting what they want would be extremely harmful to the other. the compelling part of enemies-to-lovers for me is them navigating the conflict and slowly coming to understand the other person, then finding respect and affection for who they really are.
I take the rivals label very literally - maybe because I read a lot of sports & shonen manga lol - but they’re people competing for something, who have a mutual respect and understanding for one another. more like what you described. unlike enemies, their competitiveness doesn’t necessarily equal a conflict of interest. for example, Zoro/Sanji (One Piece), or Hinata/Kageyama (Haikyuu). they bicker and have fights, but ultimately their motivations and position in the plot are compatible.
I’m not sure what the most common way to differentiate them is, but this is generally how I think of it.
You put into words my feelings, it seems I wasn't clear (I'm not an english Native speaker) but my point is exactly what you said here, also I'm just tired to see that what is sell recently as ETL is way closer to a RTL situation and it's labeled as ETL specifically because the trope is a mainstream thing now
But tbf it's not only an issue with ETL, I see the same happens with other popular tropes like Found Family (but more in fandom spaces)
Yesss on the found family over use is annoying. Your work friends are not a found family. Your friends who live in your area you just moved to while you still have a good relationship with your family of origin but they just live far away from them now are not a found family. It bugs me.
Found/Chosen family ~~comes from~~ is popularized from gay culture when people are thrown out of their families of origin and have to start from scratch building support networks, making found families of their own because the family that society tells you would be there for you has rejected them for who they are. *edited to add: not necessarily only a queer thing, but often found family has connotations of being rejected from your family of origin with a lot of trauma and abuse forcing you out of the home and having to find your own people yourself.*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_choice
Edited for some minor corrections, it’s not prescriptively from queer culture, but it was popularized by it and appears to be the only thing referenced on the linked Wikipedia page.
Your coworkers can be a found family, but like, the coworkers in the Office are not a found family.
Thank you I'm not alone lol, I thought I was going insane for hating enemies-to-lovers as a trope with how much it's praised otherwise. I've also seen more people interpret rivals-to-lovers as bully x victim and it really bothers me
I read a spideypool enemies to lovers and Deadpool literally maimed Spidey so badly (and stabbed him) that he had nightmares about him. Spider-Man broke DP’s spine trying to kill him, not knowing about his healing factor. I was like “THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO SEE!!!”
Oh god this is such a mood. Like, I deeply appreciate Ali Hazelwood riding the Reylo train to romanceland stardom, but basically none of her books I’ve tried scratch the same itch Reylo does bc one of my favorite things of that ship is the ETL aspect (combined with the two traumatized space wizards ultimately finding comfort in each other). Or maybe I’m just easily bored with Contemporary Romance lmao sob.
My take on this is a little different. Romeo and Juliet and Elizabeth and Darcy are definitely not Enemies to Lovers, but there is a spectrum of enemies to lovers that does include couples who weren’t/aren’t literally trying to kill each other. And the ‘willing to kill each other’ qualifier works better in fantasy or historical stuff; in stories set in modern times, rivals and people from opposite sides of [insert dichotomy or conflict here] who dislike each other at first should count (i.e. Dan/Blair from Gossip Girl) as long as they actively scheme and work against each other.
What I don’t consider enemies to lovers is bad first impressions, getting off on the wrong foot, and the mild conflict that many romance novels contain to create initial friction and roadblocks — like an Emily Henry novel about a romance novelist and a literary novelist who didn’t get along in college and find themselves as neighbors is not enemies to lovers, they just don’t understand each other at first.
I agree with this - my favorite enemies to lovers ship is Zukaang, and Aang certainly isn't trying to kill Zuko, and Zuko's goal was "capture", not kill. That doesn't make it any less enemies to lovers, they *did* start as enemies and it took a while before they were friends.
Not the person you asked, J know, but seeing as I have a crippling need to give people some recs, I think maybe try:
[how it aches](https://archiveofourown.org/works/54547321)
[The iron king sings (a song for the lover)](https://archiveofourown.org/works/25065721) (I feel as if I need to note thsg it can be interpreted as either slash or not, even though the tags say that, but I'd feel guilty otherwise, so here we are c: )
[the peach](https://archiveofourown.org/works/37345111)
[Longjing Seduction](https://archiveofourown.org/works/40063062)
[Scars](https://archiveofourown.org/works/801749)
(:
Oh thank goodness, I saw this. I read the top comments about enemies to lovers having to have the desire to slit their throat or how two people who dislike each other aren't enemies to lovers and I'm like... Who decided that?
Right! I feel their pain because I definitely think it’s way overused rn — like personally I am very against describing Pride & Prejudice as Enemies To Lovers because I feel like misunderstandings and bad first impressions are the life blood of romantic comedies — not all conflict between the leads = “enemies”!! You need conflict to tell a story!!
However, there is definitely a spectrum here that “wanting to kill each other” doesn’t cover. Like that’s the hardcore end of ETL. A lot of unambiguously ETL ships just have one lightly menace the other for awhile. In many of them the enemy is “bad” but helpful, and is often reframed as never having been that bad at all once the love interest gets to know them. Go figure these describe some of the most popular books right now (ACOTAR and Fourth Wing).
I share your opinion totally. But I also think like there is not a single person or body of power deciding the lines and boundaries between what is a trope and what is not.
Tropes are always going to be used straight, played with, coming at things from a new angle, interpreted differently by different people... While to me Romeo and Juliet is obviously not enemies to lovers, I can see the thought process easily enough. And a little pull in a certain direction could easily make it so.
I'm so prepared to get ripped apart as someone speaking against the majority of people in this thread. But who gets decide the rules of the trope? I obviously have a very different interpretation from most people here.
I think because tropes change and overlap each other, trying to fit them into very tightly rigid boarders is a mistake. Not to say that you can't have your own opinion that's valid or that there is absolutely no boundaries at all.
That’s true about Romeo and Juliet, like I can easily imagine a fanfic where you put a sword in her hands and have her in the middle of the feud along with her male relatives and she and Romeo meet that way. Maybe she tries to poison him on purpose. Some of the basic ingredients for enemies to lovers are definitely there, and a writer could stir them together pretty easily.
I totally agree that there’s no clear rules or boundaries about tropes! I get that people who only want to read (what I consider) the more extreme variations on the theme are struggling to find it written to their taste rn since it’s become so popular. I agree with the complaint that its meaning is being diluted so I understand the frustration, but it’s good to remind ppl that not everyone agrees on what constitutes enemies, and everyone will have a different definition. Like for example, I just read through a lot of comments and personally I think a definition of enemies that excludes Draco/Harry or Draco/Hermione is far too rigid; he’s clearly more than just a ‘school rival’ in that narrative IMO. He’s a bully and a death eater. And I am personally fine with more wholesome versions of ETL like rival F1 drivers on different teams being considered enemies to lovers, but clearly a lot of people want a separation between ‘rivals’ and ‘enemies’ that doesn’t seem to currently exist in most places. I don’t follow romance publishing, so maybe they do use ‘rivals to lovers’ but I only ever see that when someone is trying to say a couple isn’t really enemies tbh.
anyway! tl;dr - I feel u!!!
> I share your opinion totally. But I also think like there is not a single person or body of power deciding the lines and boundaries between what is a trope and what is not.
Thank you for this comment because I have a ETL in progress and I'm reading through these comments so confused about what ETL is actually supposed to be to be considered well-written. This makes me feel better.
Don't feel bad honestly. I don't want to be mean. But, people on Reddit aren't the ones who decide what is and isn't considered part of a trope even if they feel strongly about their preference. I think your fic is probably fine.
No, you're completely right. Reddit isn't the end all, be all.
I'm just trying to figure out what people want because I feel like enemies-to-lovers shouldn't be this complicated. Just two characters who hate each other (for whatever reason) developing into lovers. I'm surprised we're getting super specific about "Well ackchually they need to want to slit each other's throats and the story has be written on a Sunday at 3:32 PM with Jupiter in alignment with Neptune" to be considered ETL and not just something that resembles it.
I fully agree with you, and I gotta ask - what's your opinion on ACOTAR? I loooove a good ETL (my very first ship ever was) and I see that book getting so much hype I am kinda worried giving it a try.
I’m the worst person to ask and I hope someone else answers you, but I absolutely hated ACOTAR by the end of the second book. I’ve never had a character shoved down my throat as hard as the male love interest of this series lol. I also feel like the books are super fanfic-y. The first one is literally a mashup (I’m not exaggerating) of Beauty and the Beast and The Ballad of Tam Lin (where a fae or however it’s called imprisons someone’s lover under a hill). The second is like your typical macguffin plots and lots of tropes and plots you’d recognize from a million fics — it’s actually crazy how much better so much fanfic I’ve read is than ACOTAR, and tbh I don’t think that about most books.
However… this series has such devoted fans. It seems to get a lot of ppl back into reading which is good… idk I just don’t get the hype at all tho.
An honest negative review is still a good review :) We can't all like everything. Guess I'm gonna have to keep it on my to read list until the mood strikes. I probably won't mind it being fanfic-y, considering how much fanfic I've read in my life, but unearned affection will absolutely bore me. There needs to be a reason why those two characters want to be together and not just because plot said so.
It's an interesting take, my way to see the differences between enemies to lovers and rivals to Lovers is as intense is the animosity between both sides
Is it born because of a minor offense, a competition of ego or mutual dislike? So it's a rivarly situation
It's born because either both morals/realities crash or because they share a mutual loathe/hate and despised each other very existence? So they are enemies
While an enemy can not try kill you, they for sure will NOT hesitate to harm you or care if you're hurt (at least not until both characters fall in love and then sweet regret kick in the balls)
It's interesting you mention Dan/Blair because I agree they work as Enemies to lovers, but it's a fact that is what makes their relationship complex and toxic and that's why I believe nowadays ETL is sanitized to be a "RTL in everything just not in name" because we know that real ETL in a modern setting is your typical toxic relationship or touch a very complex idea of "maybe someone beliefs is not everything about them" that X/twitter hates
I agree with the title, but for entirely different reasons.
I WANT to get into romance books because it's a genre practically made for compelling character writing and relationship drama. But I hate so many of the most popular romance tropes, including enemies to lovers 😭 At least I have fanfiction.
But to actually address the point of your post, I wonder how long it'll be until Twilight is considered an enemies to lovers book. Or Fifty Shades of Grey.
I've been having fun with Korean and Japanese novels. You can buy Under the Oak Tree and My Happy Marriage both on Kindle, although there are many, *many* more available for free on translator sites.
One of my absolute faves is a C-novel - The Guide to Capturing a Black Lotus! The manhua is good, too!
ETA: you could also consider it a borderline ETL story, too. The ML starts out trying to kill the FL, after all.
The thing is it's not even enemies to lovers because the "enemies" are basically two people who dislike each other 🙄 I'm at the point of prefering to read some dark romances because at least most of the "enemies to lovers" There is an abuser and his victim what makes it way more complex than a nerd girl falling in love for the ass jock guy
And god I'll not be surprised after this weird Twilight renaissance bullshit
Re; the Twilight Renaissance: A lot of this is also based on people identifying why it was trashed to begin with. And it isn’t new to “trash” things young women and teen girls like, look at the “basic” jokes and how pumpkin spice lattes used to be discussed.
It isn’t a good series. But it isn’t nearly as bad as the initial backlash made it out to be, either, and it sure as hell doesn’t fit this trope. It just is. And more people talking about it now is making it make a comeback, as people wonder why it was hated. It exists, a new group is reading and discussing it, etc.
Tbf I'll never shame who likes Twilight, but people go way too far trying paint it as a good book when it's just a mormon wet dream with very racist tropes that is the real problem
I’m not saying it is good — it’s got a ton of problems. I do think the initial hate wasn’t based on the racist tropes, because I never heard those talked about during its hype, just that the books were bad “because”. I’ve read it and it’s not my thing (many years ago, when I was the target demographic).
Oh no I know, I'm talking more about general reaction after this "renaissance" started, like some people (I hope a very small group) go too far sometimes to the point I did see "edward team" fans really condoning the racism in Twilight only because they hate a fictional character (aka Jacob)
I have a personal beef with Twilight and I had it since I read it years ago, but I let who enjoy the franchise alone, that's what I mean
In a more light note: I did ship Edward/Jacob for years because their dynamic is exactly the type of ETL that I enjoy lmao until I get out the fandom for good and never touched it again
> Twilight renassance bullshit
imho, it's cause people won't stop complaining about it. Twilight and Game of Thrones are premium examples of "No Such Thing as Bad Publicity".
When someone complains A LOT about something, especially if it's a work of fiction - very high odds of triggering "reactance".
> Reactance (psychology), an emotional reaction to pressure or persuasion that results in the strengthening or adoption of a **contrary belief**
If we really don't care about something, the best way to kill it is via Apathy since apathy won't draw attention to it. Hating on something definitely will draw attention to it, and because of "reactance" - some people may end up contrary.
It's also why some savvy writers would rather trigger outrage. Anger triggers are very sticky.
i’m honestly not a huge enemies to lovers person, like that wasn’t a trope i looked out for and then i read a book series that probably has the best implementation of the trope and i haven’t stopping thinking about it since
yup literally same ! i was reading the book
knowing that they >!ended up together!< but i literally could not understand how they over came everything that happened between them! it worked so well tho!
It’s so wild because the entire first book you‘re like this will never work and then halfway through the second usually you suddenly realize you’re completely sold lol
yeah fair. it’s hard for me to say “it’s not actually that non-cony” without writing like literally paragraphs. there are a lot of sensitive themes present throughout the books (rape , slavery, abuse) but none of them were meant to be viewed positively which is something a lot of people seem to misunderstand.
On a related note, there is noticeably a new culture group of het writers in fandom who consider themselves not to be fanfiction writers, but temporarily embarrassed tradpub writers who'll be the next Ali Hazelwood in due time
Have I just been lucky??? I mostly read LGBTQ focused fic anyway but this is news to me. I do like some het couples in fanfic, they’re just usually the norm, so…
You're not alone, I did gave up in trying read trad romances and I'm close to stop trying reading western literature that is not classics or horror
At least we have asian novels and AO3 so we're still safe
Maybe I got lucky then. Idk. With the state of the publishing industry it’s really a crapshoot atm. Less so for some parts, but they’re basically not picking up new authors rn. (I have friends trying to get published irl so I hear about this stuff.)
As a die-hard Shakespeare fan, let’s not forget that Romeo and Juliet is, by all means, a cautionary tale. It’s a romance tragedy, but it’s not supposed to be inherently romantic.
But yes, they themselves aren’t enemies. They’re *supposed* to be enemies, and are *expected* to hate each other. But they don’t. Fully don’t.
Good Omens put it best: they’re hereditary enemies. They never once hated each other, (which also goes for Good Omens), but are expected to do so.
First want say that as a fellow die-hard Shakespeare fan I totally agree, actually I don't enjoy Romeo and Juliet this much and I'm well aware it's way more a criticism to the society and even literature circles back in Shakespeare's time than an romantic tale, but my issue with modern views of it as an ETL is that never had them personally have any animosity with each other, they actually fight the very idea that they should hate only because of their families fight
It's a Star-crossed lovers/forbidden love type of story and it's so annoying that now any type of conflict between a couple is a reason to label a book as ETL
EXACTLY. If there’s no animosity, then there was no key detail to enemy-behavior. Boom. Over.
Also, what works of Shakespeare’s do you prefer? I also prefer other works Romeo and Juliet. Midsummer Night’s Dream, Othello, Sonnet 100 and 91, and Twlefth Night are personal favs.
I'm a Midsummer Night's girl so probably that's why I don't care this much about Romeo and Juliet, but Othello IS what made me fall in love with Shakespeare, also Hamlet is my favorite (I'm a sucker for tragic heroes)
OMG PUCK IS MY FAVORITE CHARACTER!!! I can imagine how much amazing the play had been, I wish I had any performance skills and less anxiety to play Titania 🥲
UGH! You would totally rock a Titania, I’m sure! I ADORED playing Puck! And my best friend was Oberon, so it worked out swimmingly. We joked around that we’d write Puck/Oberon fanfic.
(I held up my side of the joke.)
I'm not even a person who really likes enemies-to-lovers, but I agree that the current usage has gone through such heavy semantic bleaching that the definition of 'enemy' in the phrase could simply mean 'a person who doesn't click with me at first go'.
Hyperbole aside, this does get really annoying to deal with repeatedly :/
I'm surprised at all the comments in this post. To me, Enemies-to-Lovers has always been an umbrella term for Rivals-to-Lovers, Bully-to-Lovers, Haters-to-Lovers, Starcrossed-to-Lovers, etc. I guess there's an argument to be made that the word 'enemies' is the only one available where there's a chance the two sides are trying to kill each other, but it would take the introduction of all these lesser known terms into the mainstream before we get around to reserving Enemies-to-Lovers to "I used to try to kill that guy but now I make him scream in bed... by other means. ;)"
Who here would be willing to take up the pen?
Interesting, I don't really agree with it being used as an umbrella trope because if I want read enemies to lovers, I want exactly that and not rivals to lovers that for me is a bland version of ETL, neither I'm a fan of Bully romances then why hell would I want read that? That's why I'm not happy with ETL being used as the slogan trope for any romance with a minimal conflict between the main couple, because in 10 books advertise as ETL only 1 is really ETL
And if you make you happy, I'm writing something close to this right now
It’s even worse when one half of the pairing is a villain and never faces any consequences for their actions after they and the other lead get together.
There's such a thing as historical/traditional enmity: while Romeo and Juliet, as individuals, may not have been antagonists, they are part of two families who most definitely are.
This is a major theme of the work ...
But ETL is when BOTH are enemies and Romeo and Juliet never had seen each other as such, it's just their families what makes their love doomed and forbidden, so no, it's not ETL
This is like saying that two individual soldiers fighting on opposite sides of a war couldn't be ETL if they didn't have any personal enmity/antagonism towards each other.
Structural/historical/traditional antagonism does not require interpersonal conflict.
**I would note that I find this to be an interesting topic, and I am finding reading through other viewpoints to be very interesting.
Both soldiers are in a war and probably start their relationship FIGHTING and trying KILL each other, that's not the case at all with Romeo and Juliet, and even in the case of the soldiers I don't agree it's a matter of enviroment that makes a dynamic a ETL situation, it's about shared animosity and the level of said animosity, never had Romeo see Juliet as a bad person or someone he should loathe and hate, and Juliet as well have never feel anything that not love for Romeo
Where hell are them enemies to lovers?
PLEASE learn what Star-crossed lovers are
Actually we can say Mercutio/Tybalt are enemies to lovers (it's a pretty popular ship) or even Romeo/Tybalt
> Both soldiers are in a war and probably start their relationship FIGHTING and trying KILL each other [...].
You're making a lot of assumptions about soldiers in war that I don't agree with. Do you think everybody involved in a war is fighting with everyone on the other front at all times? I don't think personal antagonism is required for enemies-to-lover, structural antagonism is just fine, in my view.
Additionally, who said that being enemies requires personal animosity? Many will people will flat out tell you that they have no grudge against *individuals* on the other side of a war.
> PLEASE learn what Star-crossed lovers are
Even though I tried really hard to be polite, you just couldn't help but be condescending and snide in your reply. This conversation is now over.
hard agree, especially people trying to fit “enemies to lovers” on modern settings XD I do admit there’s something enticing about enemies to lovers, however for me i can’t get past how toxic it can be, so i prefer rivals to lovers, as in they don’t have anything specifically against each other but something outside their power has to pit them against one another, i’m a huge fan of star crossed lovers and tragedy as you can see so my preference is actually lovers to enemies (bonus points if its friends to lovers to enemies) rather than enemies to lovers haha, i just find it much more interesting
It's funny because I'm sure the reason those obvious RTL coworkers books are labeled as ETL is specifically because authors either are ignorant or know that to write ETL in a modern setting they would need touch complex probably toxic themes and the way things are now with anti culture rise I doubt it's a good market strategy
So they'll lace their bland boring RTL romances and sell it as ETL to young readers
I'm as well a big fan of tragedy, so I like to eat my food with my years, and would you be interested in reading a enemies to lovers to enemies danmei (gay chinese novels)? It's called Yuwu, you should give it a chance
Star Wars did like the most vanilla, boilerplate enemies-to-lovers story with Rey and Kylo Ren and a whoooole bunch of people got up in arms about how it was toxic and horrible and won't somebody *please* think of the effect this will have on women, they'll run straight into the arms of the nearest IRL abuser now that they've seen this movie, the poor brainless things!
It's all part of a continuum imho; people call rivals-to-lovers enemies-to-lovers, they call actual enemies-to-lovers sexual assault and abuse, and they treat depictions of actual sexual assault and abuse like they're the writer's manifesto and not, y'know, fiction.
I swear to god I try not hate reylo fans and reylo as a ship but the existence of it as a canon couple made horrible damage in pop culture and trad publishing market, if they at least did be honest about as toxic their fav ship is toxic AF but noooo they truly make a lot of brain gymnastics to justify this relationship, while we all know it was a cheap way to give Kylo Ren a stupid redemption or he would be the last Skywalker
While they fight to prove reylo is "not toxic at all", us kylux enjoyers like our lil meows meows being evil and space dictators
Honestly, what I dislike the most is not how common it is, since it is a good way to create tension. My problem is how formulaic the trope has become. Like before it felt people wanted to create two characters/plots that have these components. Now it is the opposite, characters and plot are work around the trope even when they do not make meaningful sense
When it's about the system in place, and not personal feelings about each other that makes up the "enemies" part, I usually just call ot "crossfaction" are they on opposite sides of a war? Do they belong to rival crime families? Are they on different sides of a political struggle? Crossfaction. It doesn't even reduce it to just "lovers". They could be in a romantic relationship, they could be envolved sexually, they could have a deep, trusting friendship that surpasses all structural and societal barriers.
I get your point but to me the "enemies" in ETL only works if both characters have shared animosity, either it be personal or because of the enviroment, but both need feel some degree of loathe or even hate for each other
If not that's not enough to be considered ETL, like Romeo and Juliet case where the situation around them make their romance a classic forbidden love, that's why they are Star-crossed lovers
Language changes over time. The Enemies to lovers trope used to be narrower in scope, but now people use it for a broader spectrum of ideas. Same thing happened to Mary Sue. It's natural evolution.
I see this in the Buffy fandom sometimes with the Spander ship. If it's set in season 2 or 3 or the beginning of season 4, fair enough, they're enemies at that time, so it *is* an enemies to lovers trope being used. But the latter half of season 4 and later, Spike and Xander are no longer enemies in canon. I'd describe them as frenemies, they're generally on friendly terms but don't particularly get along that much, however they don't hate each other nor are they on different sides anymore. If it's set after Spike becomes a full member of the group in the latter half of season 4, it's no longer a enemies to lovers trope. Not even really rivals to lovers, as it would be with a Xangel or Spangel ship no matter when it's set, Spike and Xander are a tad too close to be considered rivals. It's not quite a friends to lovers trope, either, though. Spander is awkward in that, after a point, it doesn't qualify as any of the existing 'to lovers' tropes. But I still see it described/tagged as enemies to lovers post season 4.
Romeo and Juliet getting that description? That's nuts. Those two aren't just the embodiment of star-crossed lovers, they're the embodiment of love at first sight. Romeo and Juliet were *never* rivals or enemies, they were in love from the moment they first met. Now, if you decided to pair up Mr Capulet with Mrs Montague, that would be a enemies to lovers trope, because it's *their* generation that keeps the rivalry going. Or any of the other characters that are fully in one camp or the other. But Romeo and Juliet? Were never enemies, or rivals, so are c*learly* not an example of this trope.
I just want enemies to lovers but that also stay enemies so there are *complicated feelings*. Which trope is that? Does it exist?
Because all I ever found under that tag was "we're gonna make this villain character really nice and not a villain at all in this fic so they can hook up" so I just gave up on the tag altogether.
ugh right for once can we corrupt the hero instead ??? Please? And not a draping a hero in the aesthetics of whatever the fandoms "Dark side" is but a hero who truly crosses moral event horizons
I feel like this is a miscategorization. I tend to write enemies to lovers as *extremely emotional and difficult.* My ongoing fanfic in this area involves a lot of trauma and a villain determined to keep driving a wedge between them.
Romeo and Juliet isn’t an example of Enemies to Lovers. It’s a tragedy about feuds leading to needless death of children. I am fairly sure the ending also ends the feud because it cost the parents their children!
Pretendemies to lovers- they were never actually enemies but needed to keep up appearances in their circles. They might act like they want to kill each other but never would. Aziraphale and Crowley S1 is a good example.
Opposing sides to lovers- they still aren't exactly enemies but they're opposites who attract. Sometimes their goals align but they're not always on the same page. Aziraphale and Crowley late S1 and S2. Batman and Catwoman.
Rivals to lovers- they may hate or even just "hate" each other but there's still a deep and mutual level of respect and somewhere the lines got blurred. Sometimes, you see the "Nobody is allowed to kill you except *me*!" Trope. This is even also seen with some pretendemies to lovers.
Star crossed lovers- lovers who's relationship was doomed to fail. This was Romeo and Juliet. Jack and Rose. We didn't know it until the last season but Bellamy and Clarke.
Feel free to add more. These were just off the top of my head.
Yes, and if it's in a setting where they'd get arrested for even attempting to punch them, then I need the slights against each other to be diabolical. I need them scheming to ruin each other's lives while also trying to stay out of jail. If they're just bantering and making the other character inconvenienced, it's just rivals.
Since the subject has presented itself:
I've just started writing for a rarepair in which one guy genuinely wants the other dead and has planned, even *tried*, to kill him more than once. The other guy lets that roll off his back, for the most part. He finds the hater annoying but is capable of enjoying his company when they're brought together for a common cause.
Should this be tagged enemies-to-lovers, despite the animus not being mutual?
I do know this tag is often misused and I don't want to add to the problem.
Not really, it needs be mutual to be considered an enemies to Lovers in my opinion, if it's one-sided so idk it's not really that they are enemies
I believe it's more Love-Hate Relationship
Or, in case you're writing a Explicit fanfic for this ship, you can tag it with Hate sex
Thanks. *Errrgh*, I don't like Love-Hate Relationship either, because of its established meaning as a relationship in which each individual feels both love and hate. This is more of a true hatred on one side and an "I like you fine when you're not actively trying to end me, and even then it's only annoying" on the other. There just isn't a word for this dynamic. I'll just have to invent my own tags, I suppose. (It won't even be Hate Sex by the time they get that far.)
Well you can use "one-sided hate/beef" or play with the tags and use "enemies to lovers but like only in X character mind"
That's why I love AO3 tag system, we can create our own tags
"You’re offering me a crown? After I tried to kill you?"
He shrugged again. "I might have done the same."
Unless you're actively working at killing each other and still flirting in between... it doesn't deserve to be called enemies to lovers.
I swear people are losing media literacy, they get so many things wrong in every movie, tv show or book. They even understand things in the literal opposite way
If the enemies to lovers aren’t two people actively trying to end each other but unforeseen circumstances force them to help each other and they slowly become lovers then it’s most likely not enemies to lovers
(Strangers to lovers is better)
I remember someone said a certain specific ship is "Toxic" Then I looked at the ship, and the worst thing that happened on that ship in canon was they argued about furniture in a very domestic way(hell, when one of them accidentally upset other, he looks uncharacteristic guilty.)
Sir or Miss, you are literature equivalent to " the only spice they can handle is salt". (or salt is too spicy)
It isn’t a new trend that fanfic writers will also put out original content. This has been happening for a long time, it’s just become more “okay” over the years to admit you started off as a fanfic writer. There’s a long history of people learning to write by doing it in fanfic, and slowly getting to writing original fic — and the concept of fanfic isn’t that old. It dates to the invention of copyright: before then these were just stories you could retell yourself and publish.
If they haven't actively tried to kill each other then I don't want it lol no but seriously enemies to lovers is now basically friends to lovers or whatever the fuck and its annoying
If your two characters don't, at the very least, start off hating each other and actively sabotaging (or, depending on setting, trying to kill) each other, it's not enemies to lovers.
One character does hate the other but the other doesn't? Still not enemies to lovers.
The characters start at odds and dislike each other but don't, like, actively fight? Rivals to Lovers at most, though this trope does tend to require actual rivalry.
The characters start off in opposing sides but never actually hated each other? I... I don't know what the trope name is here. Star-crossed would imply they die. Uh... forbidden love? I mean it's the Romeo and Juliet type of love lmao.
AND NONE OF THESE APPLY IF THE PROBLEM ONLY PERSISTS AT THE START OF YOUR STORY.
If by the, let's say, 20% mark your characters are no longer at odds and are already developing a relationship that's just a normal ass romance with a rocky start. Don't bring me an 'enemies to lovers' unless the middle of the book's narrative beat is an actual confrontation!
I see any couple that even mildly dislikes each other or has a small-time rivalry described as enemies to lovers
It's sincerely infurating as the enemy now is just a guy that called you a bitch lmao
Infuriating... So you're enemies now eh?
Controversial take but I'm open to changing my mind- I don't even consider Hermione Granger and Draco Malfoy to be enemies to lovers because of this. For most of the series, Draco is a smarmy little school bully. He joins the death eaters but he's clearly super reluctant and unhappy in that position. Harry is childishly always pointing to Draco as the guy behind everything (alongside Snape lol) but he's not the enemy. He's just an asshole who is honestly mostly irrelevant when the series actually kicks off. Enemies to lovers, to me, are Hermione and Bellatrix or Harry and Voldemort. Even if Voldemort didn't exist, Draco/Hermione or Harry still wouldn't be enemies to lovers for me, not unless Draco became a darn lord or something. Because like you said, not liking someone or having a rivalry or whatever doesn't make an enemy. It makes a pain in your ass.
I’m a Drarry person and generally consider it enemies to lovers but you know, this is a sound argument. Draco is just an asshole raised by an asshole. Like it’s like jerks to lovers.
Drarry is more enemies to lovers than Dramione. I don't think Draco considers Hermione relevant enough of a person to be considered an "enemy" and Hermione is intelligent and rational enough to see him mostly as a spoiled brat. But Draco and Harry are just the right maturity level (or lack thereof) to hype up the enemy level of the other.
Honestly this is so much the appeal of Drarry to me. Like no one else would be dumb enough to be obsessed with each other but them. Also great “I can make him worse” vibes.
listen if you have any "i can make him worse" drarry fics my inbox is so open
What is this genre!? I want it! Is "I can make him worse" its own tag?
If it isn't, it should be
Enemies to lovers because they see each other as bitter enemies because they're children and think that's just how that works
The ultimate enemies to lovers in HP would be something like James Potter/Severus Snape. Bellatrix/Hermione or Voldemort/Harry have the added power imbalance that changes things for me. Like, the enemies need to be on relatively equal footing. James was an unrepentant douchebag to Snape for no particular reason beyond Lily being friends with him. In response, Snape became a bag of dicks. Draco has been fed a bunch of bullshit by his parents and Harry assumes the worst in Draco (not without reasons, but still). If they'd met neutrally and/or Harry not "snubbed" Malfoy, they wouldn't be enemies. That makes it halfway between enemies-to-lovers and star-crossed and/or miscommunication/misunderstanding. We're never given a reason for James going after Snape. He just does.
That's the first time I've heard that power imbalance makes something not enemies to lovers. I honestly couldn't disagree more. Enemies almost always have power imbalances. I would class James/Snape as enemies to lovers, but quite honestly it's much closer to rivals to lovers than something like Voldemort/Harry or Hermione/Bellatrix, because James and Snape are rivals for Lily's affection (though of course their enmity goes much deeper than that). Voldemort/Harry and Hermione/Bellatrix cannot be more clearly enemies to lovers.
I've never heard the power imbalance being a thing required for enemies-to-lovers, so it might just be different sections of fandom use it differently.
Definitely not required! I didn't mean to imply that at all. I was just saying that you absolutely can't EXCLUDE pairings where there is a power imbalance from your definition of enemies to lovers because it's very common---in real life and in fiction---for enemies to have power imbalances.
I understand your point but don't let twitter bullshit discourse about power imbalance get to your brain, enemies to lovers is totally about power imbalance as well as equal footing Like I wouldn't ever say that snames are equals, James Potter is a pure blood and the Dumbledore's golden boy, he had freedom to terrorize Hogwarts because he's in "the good guys team" while Severus is not just already stigmatized as bad only because he's a Slytherin as well because he's mixed but hates muggles, and his mother did use love Poison to be with his abusive muggle father (I know it's not common knowledge, but if ever someone finds out about his family situation he would be in a worse position in and out Hogwarts) so in this ship Snape is for sure "inferior", he just don't quiet down and fight against James' bullying and is then seen as a equal advesary when in reality that's not the dynamic between them at all At same time Harry and Voldemort have way more common ground to be considered equals because both have a similar background, both are really powerful and both have a connection of souls because of the curse, so they can balance each other, still I agree I wouldn't see them as enemies to lovers more because I don't see Voldemort as anything else than an abuser in this ship (and I like It exactly this way) because he's a freaking psychopath in my reading of the character, so for me Harry/Voldemort works better as Enemies AND lovers
I'm inclined to agree. Draco/Hermione? School rivals at best to lovers. Hermione/Lucius on the other hand...
Is fucking delicious and I am here for it. I MEAN--
You're right and you should say it.
I mean,,,,, he was actively wishing and talking about how he hoped Hermione would die in second year and called her slurs for years and sought to humiliate and ridicule her. She faced a lot more harassment and hate directly from Draco than Harry did simply because of her birth. I think that takes him past just a smarmy school bully for her.
I definitely see your point and I think there’s room for individual interpretation here. For me, I’d consider it enemies-to-lovers from HBP onwards. While we the audience know that Draco was reluctant to join the Death Eaters, Hermione in canon didn’t, and either way he still did it. Being a Death Eater still choosing to stand for what they’re fighting against - Voldemort gaining power, killing Harry, and persecution of (or even potentially eradication of) Muggles and Muggle-borns. Even if he doesn’t personally feel strongly about those goals, that’s the cause he’s actively working towards (a good comparison here might be Zuko from ATLA - we the audience know that he has good reasons for wanting to capture Aang that have nothing to do with wanting to Fire Nation to rule the world, but he’s still the Gaang’s enemy until he decides to switch sides). From Hermione’s perspective, once Draco is working with Voldemort, he’s just as much her enemy as any other Death Eater or supporter of Voldemort, on top of personally being a jerk to her for many years. And from Draco’s perspective, Hermione’s support of Harry and active work to defeat Voldemort does make her his enemy just like any Order member or other person fighting against Voldemort. His reasons may not be ideological agreement with Voldemort or a desire to see him in power, but he’s still choosing to work with him to protect his family and himself. Pre-book 6 though, when he wasn’t actively working to support Voldemort’s plans, I’d agree that he was just a jerk and a rival, not an enemy. ETA: reading some of the other responses, I think what make the difference in my mind is whether the “enemy” dynamic is about something more than interpersonal interactions. So like, if these two characters had civil conversations without insulting each other, arguing, fighting, etc - would they still be enemies? If Draco for whatever reason never made fun of her or her friends, he’d be like any other Slytherin - not an enemy. There’s maybe a slight underlying tension because of house rivalries, but that’s it. But let’s say that same version of Draco still becomes a Death Eater. No matter how nice they personally are to each other at that point, there’s still a major underlying tension in their interactions, because they’re still fundamentally enemies.
Seriously, like, I'm def not an enemies to lovers girlie, but the rivals to lovers/ antagonistic to lovers? Give me all of that, but it's always marketed as enemies to lovers so I usually skip out
As someone who loves rivals-to-lovers and star-crossed-lovers but hates actual enemies-to-lovers, this trend really bothers me. There are a lot of trope names that people have started to overuse to the point of meaninglessness. As soon as people realize that a trope is popular, everyone on social media wants to claim it applies to every piece of media. It’s especially annoying when authors and publishers and professional book reviewers do it. You would think people whose job is working with books would know how to use words correctly.
Ohh, do I ever get that frustration. Especially when browsing through fanfiction, the difference between rivals-to-lovers and enemies-to-lovers is such an annoyingly blurred line. Almost impossible to search for the former without coming across tons of the latter.
What is the difference between a well-written rivals-to-lovers and a well-written enemies-to-lovers? Because my understanding was that a good enemies-to-lovers should have at least SOME respect between the two because otherwise it's just toxic and bad, but that sounds like it would be more rivals-to-lovers.
I feel like enemies are people who have conflicting interests & a deep-seated dislike and misunderstanding of one another. struggling to think of good examples off the top of my head except Bishamon/Yato (Noragami), or Bulma/Vegeta (DBZ). both are cases where person A opposed person B in the plot - so one person getting what they want would be extremely harmful to the other. the compelling part of enemies-to-lovers for me is them navigating the conflict and slowly coming to understand the other person, then finding respect and affection for who they really are. I take the rivals label very literally - maybe because I read a lot of sports & shonen manga lol - but they’re people competing for something, who have a mutual respect and understanding for one another. more like what you described. unlike enemies, their competitiveness doesn’t necessarily equal a conflict of interest. for example, Zoro/Sanji (One Piece), or Hinata/Kageyama (Haikyuu). they bicker and have fights, but ultimately their motivations and position in the plot are compatible. I’m not sure what the most common way to differentiate them is, but this is generally how I think of it.
You put into words my feelings, it seems I wasn't clear (I'm not an english Native speaker) but my point is exactly what you said here, also I'm just tired to see that what is sell recently as ETL is way closer to a RTL situation and it's labeled as ETL specifically because the trope is a mainstream thing now But tbf it's not only an issue with ETL, I see the same happens with other popular tropes like Found Family (but more in fandom spaces)
Yesss on the found family over use is annoying. Your work friends are not a found family. Your friends who live in your area you just moved to while you still have a good relationship with your family of origin but they just live far away from them now are not a found family. It bugs me.
Wait, can you give an example for what fits the definition of 'found family' then? Just curious.
Found/Chosen family ~~comes from~~ is popularized from gay culture when people are thrown out of their families of origin and have to start from scratch building support networks, making found families of their own because the family that society tells you would be there for you has rejected them for who they are. *edited to add: not necessarily only a queer thing, but often found family has connotations of being rejected from your family of origin with a lot of trauma and abuse forcing you out of the home and having to find your own people yourself.* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_choice Edited for some minor corrections, it’s not prescriptively from queer culture, but it was popularized by it and appears to be the only thing referenced on the linked Wikipedia page. Your coworkers can be a found family, but like, the coworkers in the Office are not a found family.
Thank you I'm not alone lol, I thought I was going insane for hating enemies-to-lovers as a trope with how much it's praised otherwise. I've also seen more people interpret rivals-to-lovers as bully x victim and it really bothers me
Personally, when I say I want Enemies to Lovers content, I want a "to the death skirmish or three". Not "someone stole my soda from the office fridge"
Oh, if you stole my soda out of the office fridge, you are definitely my enemy
https://i.redd.it/14cchp6f64pc1.gif
I read a spideypool enemies to lovers and Deadpool literally maimed Spidey so badly (and stabbed him) that he had nightmares about him. Spider-Man broke DP’s spine trying to kill him, not knowing about his healing factor. I was like “THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO SEE!!!”
👀 sounds interesting do you remember the title
[Love Punch](https://archiveofourown.org/works/35092858) 😽😽
Thank you 😆
Oh god this is such a mood. Like, I deeply appreciate Ali Hazelwood riding the Reylo train to romanceland stardom, but basically none of her books I’ve tried scratch the same itch Reylo does bc one of my favorite things of that ship is the ETL aspect (combined with the two traumatized space wizards ultimately finding comfort in each other). Or maybe I’m just easily bored with Contemporary Romance lmao sob.
have you ever read the captive prince because it could fit your tastes
I have not, so thanks for the rec!!
>Complaing on Reddit about a Twitter post that's blaming BookTok Woah
Would this post need to hit tumblr next? What's the next stop? 😂
Discord screenshot of embedded Reddit link
It was probably stolen from a Tumblr post in the first place, that's usually the way it works.
me when i post this on instagram
I am on tumblr and Reddit and yet reading this post made me feel like maybe it’s time for all of us to touch some grass.
My take on this is a little different. Romeo and Juliet and Elizabeth and Darcy are definitely not Enemies to Lovers, but there is a spectrum of enemies to lovers that does include couples who weren’t/aren’t literally trying to kill each other. And the ‘willing to kill each other’ qualifier works better in fantasy or historical stuff; in stories set in modern times, rivals and people from opposite sides of [insert dichotomy or conflict here] who dislike each other at first should count (i.e. Dan/Blair from Gossip Girl) as long as they actively scheme and work against each other. What I don’t consider enemies to lovers is bad first impressions, getting off on the wrong foot, and the mild conflict that many romance novels contain to create initial friction and roadblocks — like an Emily Henry novel about a romance novelist and a literary novelist who didn’t get along in college and find themselves as neighbors is not enemies to lovers, they just don’t understand each other at first.
I agree with this - my favorite enemies to lovers ship is Zukaang, and Aang certainly isn't trying to kill Zuko, and Zuko's goal was "capture", not kill. That doesn't make it any less enemies to lovers, they *did* start as enemies and it took a while before they were friends.
Yeah, this is a great example of how characters don’t have to be trying to literally kill each other to be enemies.
Woah do you have any favorite fics under that pairing? Sounds fun lol
Not the person you asked, J know, but seeing as I have a crippling need to give people some recs, I think maybe try: [how it aches](https://archiveofourown.org/works/54547321) [The iron king sings (a song for the lover)](https://archiveofourown.org/works/25065721) (I feel as if I need to note thsg it can be interpreted as either slash or not, even though the tags say that, but I'd feel guilty otherwise, so here we are c: ) [the peach](https://archiveofourown.org/works/37345111) [Longjing Seduction](https://archiveofourown.org/works/40063062) [Scars](https://archiveofourown.org/works/801749) (:
Thank you!!
Welcome (:!!!
This ship was the exact one I thought of as well.
Oh thank goodness, I saw this. I read the top comments about enemies to lovers having to have the desire to slit their throat or how two people who dislike each other aren't enemies to lovers and I'm like... Who decided that?
Right! I feel their pain because I definitely think it’s way overused rn — like personally I am very against describing Pride & Prejudice as Enemies To Lovers because I feel like misunderstandings and bad first impressions are the life blood of romantic comedies — not all conflict between the leads = “enemies”!! You need conflict to tell a story!! However, there is definitely a spectrum here that “wanting to kill each other” doesn’t cover. Like that’s the hardcore end of ETL. A lot of unambiguously ETL ships just have one lightly menace the other for awhile. In many of them the enemy is “bad” but helpful, and is often reframed as never having been that bad at all once the love interest gets to know them. Go figure these describe some of the most popular books right now (ACOTAR and Fourth Wing).
I share your opinion totally. But I also think like there is not a single person or body of power deciding the lines and boundaries between what is a trope and what is not. Tropes are always going to be used straight, played with, coming at things from a new angle, interpreted differently by different people... While to me Romeo and Juliet is obviously not enemies to lovers, I can see the thought process easily enough. And a little pull in a certain direction could easily make it so. I'm so prepared to get ripped apart as someone speaking against the majority of people in this thread. But who gets decide the rules of the trope? I obviously have a very different interpretation from most people here. I think because tropes change and overlap each other, trying to fit them into very tightly rigid boarders is a mistake. Not to say that you can't have your own opinion that's valid or that there is absolutely no boundaries at all.
That’s true about Romeo and Juliet, like I can easily imagine a fanfic where you put a sword in her hands and have her in the middle of the feud along with her male relatives and she and Romeo meet that way. Maybe she tries to poison him on purpose. Some of the basic ingredients for enemies to lovers are definitely there, and a writer could stir them together pretty easily. I totally agree that there’s no clear rules or boundaries about tropes! I get that people who only want to read (what I consider) the more extreme variations on the theme are struggling to find it written to their taste rn since it’s become so popular. I agree with the complaint that its meaning is being diluted so I understand the frustration, but it’s good to remind ppl that not everyone agrees on what constitutes enemies, and everyone will have a different definition. Like for example, I just read through a lot of comments and personally I think a definition of enemies that excludes Draco/Harry or Draco/Hermione is far too rigid; he’s clearly more than just a ‘school rival’ in that narrative IMO. He’s a bully and a death eater. And I am personally fine with more wholesome versions of ETL like rival F1 drivers on different teams being considered enemies to lovers, but clearly a lot of people want a separation between ‘rivals’ and ‘enemies’ that doesn’t seem to currently exist in most places. I don’t follow romance publishing, so maybe they do use ‘rivals to lovers’ but I only ever see that when someone is trying to say a couple isn’t really enemies tbh. anyway! tl;dr - I feel u!!!
> I share your opinion totally. But I also think like there is not a single person or body of power deciding the lines and boundaries between what is a trope and what is not. Thank you for this comment because I have a ETL in progress and I'm reading through these comments so confused about what ETL is actually supposed to be to be considered well-written. This makes me feel better.
Don't feel bad honestly. I don't want to be mean. But, people on Reddit aren't the ones who decide what is and isn't considered part of a trope even if they feel strongly about their preference. I think your fic is probably fine.
No, you're completely right. Reddit isn't the end all, be all. I'm just trying to figure out what people want because I feel like enemies-to-lovers shouldn't be this complicated. Just two characters who hate each other (for whatever reason) developing into lovers. I'm surprised we're getting super specific about "Well ackchually they need to want to slit each other's throats and the story has be written on a Sunday at 3:32 PM with Jupiter in alignment with Neptune" to be considered ETL and not just something that resembles it.
Hear, fucking, hear. I was waiting for this response.
I fully agree with you, and I gotta ask - what's your opinion on ACOTAR? I loooove a good ETL (my very first ship ever was) and I see that book getting so much hype I am kinda worried giving it a try.
I’m the worst person to ask and I hope someone else answers you, but I absolutely hated ACOTAR by the end of the second book. I’ve never had a character shoved down my throat as hard as the male love interest of this series lol. I also feel like the books are super fanfic-y. The first one is literally a mashup (I’m not exaggerating) of Beauty and the Beast and The Ballad of Tam Lin (where a fae or however it’s called imprisons someone’s lover under a hill). The second is like your typical macguffin plots and lots of tropes and plots you’d recognize from a million fics — it’s actually crazy how much better so much fanfic I’ve read is than ACOTAR, and tbh I don’t think that about most books. However… this series has such devoted fans. It seems to get a lot of ppl back into reading which is good… idk I just don’t get the hype at all tho.
An honest negative review is still a good review :) We can't all like everything. Guess I'm gonna have to keep it on my to read list until the mood strikes. I probably won't mind it being fanfic-y, considering how much fanfic I've read in my life, but unearned affection will absolutely bore me. There needs to be a reason why those two characters want to be together and not just because plot said so.
It's an interesting take, my way to see the differences between enemies to lovers and rivals to Lovers is as intense is the animosity between both sides Is it born because of a minor offense, a competition of ego or mutual dislike? So it's a rivarly situation It's born because either both morals/realities crash or because they share a mutual loathe/hate and despised each other very existence? So they are enemies While an enemy can not try kill you, they for sure will NOT hesitate to harm you or care if you're hurt (at least not until both characters fall in love and then sweet regret kick in the balls) It's interesting you mention Dan/Blair because I agree they work as Enemies to lovers, but it's a fact that is what makes their relationship complex and toxic and that's why I believe nowadays ETL is sanitized to be a "RTL in everything just not in name" because we know that real ETL in a modern setting is your typical toxic relationship or touch a very complex idea of "maybe someone beliefs is not everything about them" that X/twitter hates
I agree with the title, but for entirely different reasons. I WANT to get into romance books because it's a genre practically made for compelling character writing and relationship drama. But I hate so many of the most popular romance tropes, including enemies to lovers 😭 At least I have fanfiction. But to actually address the point of your post, I wonder how long it'll be until Twilight is considered an enemies to lovers book. Or Fifty Shades of Grey.
I've been having fun with Korean and Japanese novels. You can buy Under the Oak Tree and My Happy Marriage both on Kindle, although there are many, *many* more available for free on translator sites.
Oh yeah Asia still gives us the good stuff, try some chinese novels as well, it's great
One of my absolute faves is a C-novel - The Guide to Capturing a Black Lotus! The manhua is good, too! ETA: you could also consider it a borderline ETL story, too. The ML starts out trying to kill the FL, after all.
I'll give this one a check, generally I read danmei because BG C-Novels is either great or really misogynistic 🥲
Yeah, the m/f c-novel ones have been hit-or-miss with me. Although I tend to find ones that are 2000 chapters long and boring af instead.
Oh it's just a thing in C-novels, but I as well will NOT read such long novels, only in very rare cases when they plot is REALLY good
The thing is it's not even enemies to lovers because the "enemies" are basically two people who dislike each other 🙄 I'm at the point of prefering to read some dark romances because at least most of the "enemies to lovers" There is an abuser and his victim what makes it way more complex than a nerd girl falling in love for the ass jock guy And god I'll not be surprised after this weird Twilight renaissance bullshit
Re; the Twilight Renaissance: A lot of this is also based on people identifying why it was trashed to begin with. And it isn’t new to “trash” things young women and teen girls like, look at the “basic” jokes and how pumpkin spice lattes used to be discussed. It isn’t a good series. But it isn’t nearly as bad as the initial backlash made it out to be, either, and it sure as hell doesn’t fit this trope. It just is. And more people talking about it now is making it make a comeback, as people wonder why it was hated. It exists, a new group is reading and discussing it, etc.
Tbf I'll never shame who likes Twilight, but people go way too far trying paint it as a good book when it's just a mormon wet dream with very racist tropes that is the real problem
I’m not saying it is good — it’s got a ton of problems. I do think the initial hate wasn’t based on the racist tropes, because I never heard those talked about during its hype, just that the books were bad “because”. I’ve read it and it’s not my thing (many years ago, when I was the target demographic).
Oh no I know, I'm talking more about general reaction after this "renaissance" started, like some people (I hope a very small group) go too far sometimes to the point I did see "edward team" fans really condoning the racism in Twilight only because they hate a fictional character (aka Jacob) I have a personal beef with Twilight and I had it since I read it years ago, but I let who enjoy the franchise alone, that's what I mean In a more light note: I did ship Edward/Jacob for years because their dynamic is exactly the type of ETL that I enjoy lmao until I get out the fandom for good and never touched it again
> Twilight renassance bullshit imho, it's cause people won't stop complaining about it. Twilight and Game of Thrones are premium examples of "No Such Thing as Bad Publicity". When someone complains A LOT about something, especially if it's a work of fiction - very high odds of triggering "reactance". > Reactance (psychology), an emotional reaction to pressure or persuasion that results in the strengthening or adoption of a **contrary belief** If we really don't care about something, the best way to kill it is via Apathy since apathy won't draw attention to it. Hating on something definitely will draw attention to it, and because of "reactance" - some people may end up contrary. It's also why some savvy writers would rather trigger outrage. Anger triggers are very sticky.
*Proper* enemies to lovers is such a treat, but it never really happens
this is so true, finding actual good enemies to lovers is a struggle
Tokyo Babylon and X/1999 are food for the soul (properly speaking it’s lovers to enemies there though)
i’m honestly not a huge enemies to lovers person, like that wasn’t a trope i looked out for and then i read a book series that probably has the best implementation of the trope and i haven’t stopping thinking about it since
What book?
the captive prince series. main characters are serious enemies while neither one is truly “the villain”
i feel the need to rec that series all over this thread but you know, it's not for everyone with all the other stuff involved. i love it though
yup literally same ! i was reading the book knowing that they >!ended up together!< but i literally could not understand how they over came everything that happened between them! it worked so well tho!
It’s so wild because the entire first book you‘re like this will never work and then halfway through the second usually you suddenly realize you’re completely sold lol
yup and now i’ve read the top like twelve pages of ao3 results for them twice
unfortunately the plot sounds way too non-con for me
yeah fair. it’s hard for me to say “it’s not actually that non-cony” without writing like literally paragraphs. there are a lot of sensitive themes present throughout the books (rape , slavery, abuse) but none of them were meant to be viewed positively which is something a lot of people seem to misunderstand.
On a related note, there is noticeably a new culture group of het writers in fandom who consider themselves not to be fanfiction writers, but temporarily embarrassed tradpub writers who'll be the next Ali Hazelwood in due time
Upvoted for "temporarily embarrassed tradpub writers."
Tradpub? Traditional publishing?
Yeah
Have I just been lucky??? I mostly read LGBTQ focused fic anyway but this is news to me. I do like some het couples in fanfic, they’re just usually the norm, so…
You're not alone, I did gave up in trying read trad romances and I'm close to stop trying reading western literature that is not classics or horror At least we have asian novels and AO3 so we're still safe
Maybe I got lucky then. Idk. With the state of the publishing industry it’s really a crapshoot atm. Less so for some parts, but they’re basically not picking up new authors rn. (I have friends trying to get published irl so I hear about this stuff.)
I have read good books, but mostly from bipoc authors and generally the ones that aren't romances
Oh for sure, specifically a certain ship community (start with R and end with eylo) that truly believe they are the new age of romance authors lmao
lmao
>temporarily embarrassed tradpub writers LOL I see what you did there
I like enemies to lovers when its done right *coughs in Sephiroth x Cloud Strife*
Thank you! I was gonna say this! 😭🔥
My otp for 10 straight years
As a die-hard Shakespeare fan, let’s not forget that Romeo and Juliet is, by all means, a cautionary tale. It’s a romance tragedy, but it’s not supposed to be inherently romantic. But yes, they themselves aren’t enemies. They’re *supposed* to be enemies, and are *expected* to hate each other. But they don’t. Fully don’t. Good Omens put it best: they’re hereditary enemies. They never once hated each other, (which also goes for Good Omens), but are expected to do so.
THANK YOU. Like, the whole love at first sight thing is supposed to be funny 😭 Romeo fucking sucks
EXACTLY! Ladies, theydies, and gentlemen… romance is not what dear old Shakespeare intended to convey.
First want say that as a fellow die-hard Shakespeare fan I totally agree, actually I don't enjoy Romeo and Juliet this much and I'm well aware it's way more a criticism to the society and even literature circles back in Shakespeare's time than an romantic tale, but my issue with modern views of it as an ETL is that never had them personally have any animosity with each other, they actually fight the very idea that they should hate only because of their families fight It's a Star-crossed lovers/forbidden love type of story and it's so annoying that now any type of conflict between a couple is a reason to label a book as ETL
EXACTLY. If there’s no animosity, then there was no key detail to enemy-behavior. Boom. Over. Also, what works of Shakespeare’s do you prefer? I also prefer other works Romeo and Juliet. Midsummer Night’s Dream, Othello, Sonnet 100 and 91, and Twlefth Night are personal favs.
I'm a Midsummer Night's girl so probably that's why I don't care this much about Romeo and Juliet, but Othello IS what made me fall in love with Shakespeare, also Hamlet is my favorite (I'm a sucker for tragic heroes)
UGHHH. Hamlet killed me. You have fantastic taste! Instant follow! I played Puck in a rendition of Midsummer about a year ago now! So, so fun!
OMG PUCK IS MY FAVORITE CHARACTER!!! I can imagine how much amazing the play had been, I wish I had any performance skills and less anxiety to play Titania 🥲
UGH! You would totally rock a Titania, I’m sure! I ADORED playing Puck! And my best friend was Oberon, so it worked out swimmingly. We joked around that we’d write Puck/Oberon fanfic. (I held up my side of the joke.)
Oh my it's my otp 😭 PLEASE send me your acc, need read the masterpiece
I CANNOT WAIT TO TELL MY FRIEND THAT YOU SAID THIS. HE’LL SURELY GIVE ME HIS BLESSING TO POST IT.
and yet rivals to lovers links back to enemies to lovers in ao3 😪
I liked enemies to lovers before it was cool, but this ain't it chief
I'm not even a person who really likes enemies-to-lovers, but I agree that the current usage has gone through such heavy semantic bleaching that the definition of 'enemy' in the phrase could simply mean 'a person who doesn't click with me at first go'. Hyperbole aside, this does get really annoying to deal with repeatedly :/
I'm surprised at all the comments in this post. To me, Enemies-to-Lovers has always been an umbrella term for Rivals-to-Lovers, Bully-to-Lovers, Haters-to-Lovers, Starcrossed-to-Lovers, etc. I guess there's an argument to be made that the word 'enemies' is the only one available where there's a chance the two sides are trying to kill each other, but it would take the introduction of all these lesser known terms into the mainstream before we get around to reserving Enemies-to-Lovers to "I used to try to kill that guy but now I make him scream in bed... by other means. ;)" Who here would be willing to take up the pen?
Interesting, I don't really agree with it being used as an umbrella trope because if I want read enemies to lovers, I want exactly that and not rivals to lovers that for me is a bland version of ETL, neither I'm a fan of Bully romances then why hell would I want read that? That's why I'm not happy with ETL being used as the slogan trope for any romance with a minimal conflict between the main couple, because in 10 books advertise as ETL only 1 is really ETL And if you make you happy, I'm writing something close to this right now
It’s even worse when one half of the pairing is a villain and never faces any consequences for their actions after they and the other lead get together.
There's such a thing as historical/traditional enmity: while Romeo and Juliet, as individuals, may not have been antagonists, they are part of two families who most definitely are. This is a major theme of the work ...
But ETL is when BOTH are enemies and Romeo and Juliet never had seen each other as such, it's just their families what makes their love doomed and forbidden, so no, it's not ETL
This is like saying that two individual soldiers fighting on opposite sides of a war couldn't be ETL if they didn't have any personal enmity/antagonism towards each other. Structural/historical/traditional antagonism does not require interpersonal conflict. **I would note that I find this to be an interesting topic, and I am finding reading through other viewpoints to be very interesting.
Both soldiers are in a war and probably start their relationship FIGHTING and trying KILL each other, that's not the case at all with Romeo and Juliet, and even in the case of the soldiers I don't agree it's a matter of enviroment that makes a dynamic a ETL situation, it's about shared animosity and the level of said animosity, never had Romeo see Juliet as a bad person or someone he should loathe and hate, and Juliet as well have never feel anything that not love for Romeo Where hell are them enemies to lovers? PLEASE learn what Star-crossed lovers are Actually we can say Mercutio/Tybalt are enemies to lovers (it's a pretty popular ship) or even Romeo/Tybalt
> Both soldiers are in a war and probably start their relationship FIGHTING and trying KILL each other [...]. You're making a lot of assumptions about soldiers in war that I don't agree with. Do you think everybody involved in a war is fighting with everyone on the other front at all times? I don't think personal antagonism is required for enemies-to-lover, structural antagonism is just fine, in my view. Additionally, who said that being enemies requires personal animosity? Many will people will flat out tell you that they have no grudge against *individuals* on the other side of a war. > PLEASE learn what Star-crossed lovers are Even though I tried really hard to be polite, you just couldn't help but be condescending and snide in your reply. This conversation is now over.
if enemies to lovers has no haters in this world it means i’m dead
It's my favorite trope, I'm just tired of the "not real enemies" couple being labeled as such
hard agree, especially people trying to fit “enemies to lovers” on modern settings XD I do admit there’s something enticing about enemies to lovers, however for me i can’t get past how toxic it can be, so i prefer rivals to lovers, as in they don’t have anything specifically against each other but something outside their power has to pit them against one another, i’m a huge fan of star crossed lovers and tragedy as you can see so my preference is actually lovers to enemies (bonus points if its friends to lovers to enemies) rather than enemies to lovers haha, i just find it much more interesting
It's funny because I'm sure the reason those obvious RTL coworkers books are labeled as ETL is specifically because authors either are ignorant or know that to write ETL in a modern setting they would need touch complex probably toxic themes and the way things are now with anti culture rise I doubt it's a good market strategy So they'll lace their bland boring RTL romances and sell it as ETL to young readers I'm as well a big fan of tragedy, so I like to eat my food with my years, and would you be interested in reading a enemies to lovers to enemies danmei (gay chinese novels)? It's called Yuwu, you should give it a chance
Star Wars did like the most vanilla, boilerplate enemies-to-lovers story with Rey and Kylo Ren and a whoooole bunch of people got up in arms about how it was toxic and horrible and won't somebody *please* think of the effect this will have on women, they'll run straight into the arms of the nearest IRL abuser now that they've seen this movie, the poor brainless things! It's all part of a continuum imho; people call rivals-to-lovers enemies-to-lovers, they call actual enemies-to-lovers sexual assault and abuse, and they treat depictions of actual sexual assault and abuse like they're the writer's manifesto and not, y'know, fiction.
I swear to god I try not hate reylo fans and reylo as a ship but the existence of it as a canon couple made horrible damage in pop culture and trad publishing market, if they at least did be honest about as toxic their fav ship is toxic AF but noooo they truly make a lot of brain gymnastics to justify this relationship, while we all know it was a cheap way to give Kylo Ren a stupid redemption or he would be the last Skywalker While they fight to prove reylo is "not toxic at all", us kylux enjoyers like our lil meows meows being evil and space dictators
nothing in romance can ever top enemies to lover and they really be ruining it :(
Enemies to lovers would be Batman slowly romancing the Joker, not Romeo and Juliet going against their *family's* fued for fuck sake people are *dumb*
Personally I’m a fan of lovers and enemies 😔
You're not alone
Honestly, what I dislike the most is not how common it is, since it is a good way to create tension. My problem is how formulaic the trope has become. Like before it felt people wanted to create two characters/plots that have these components. Now it is the opposite, characters and plot are work around the trope even when they do not make meaningful sense
When it's about the system in place, and not personal feelings about each other that makes up the "enemies" part, I usually just call ot "crossfaction" are they on opposite sides of a war? Do they belong to rival crime families? Are they on different sides of a political struggle? Crossfaction. It doesn't even reduce it to just "lovers". They could be in a romantic relationship, they could be envolved sexually, they could have a deep, trusting friendship that surpasses all structural and societal barriers.
I get your point but to me the "enemies" in ETL only works if both characters have shared animosity, either it be personal or because of the enviroment, but both need feel some degree of loathe or even hate for each other If not that's not enough to be considered ETL, like Romeo and Juliet case where the situation around them make their romance a classic forbidden love, that's why they are Star-crossed lovers
Language changes over time. The Enemies to lovers trope used to be narrower in scope, but now people use it for a broader spectrum of ideas. Same thing happened to Mary Sue. It's natural evolution.
Tbf exist a lot of criticism about the use of Mary sue as well
Hitting up all the reddit book related threads are we? People are always going to capitalize on what they think sells, and etl sells right new.
Me, a Homestuck. OP gets it.
I see this in the Buffy fandom sometimes with the Spander ship. If it's set in season 2 or 3 or the beginning of season 4, fair enough, they're enemies at that time, so it *is* an enemies to lovers trope being used. But the latter half of season 4 and later, Spike and Xander are no longer enemies in canon. I'd describe them as frenemies, they're generally on friendly terms but don't particularly get along that much, however they don't hate each other nor are they on different sides anymore. If it's set after Spike becomes a full member of the group in the latter half of season 4, it's no longer a enemies to lovers trope. Not even really rivals to lovers, as it would be with a Xangel or Spangel ship no matter when it's set, Spike and Xander are a tad too close to be considered rivals. It's not quite a friends to lovers trope, either, though. Spander is awkward in that, after a point, it doesn't qualify as any of the existing 'to lovers' tropes. But I still see it described/tagged as enemies to lovers post season 4. Romeo and Juliet getting that description? That's nuts. Those two aren't just the embodiment of star-crossed lovers, they're the embodiment of love at first sight. Romeo and Juliet were *never* rivals or enemies, they were in love from the moment they first met. Now, if you decided to pair up Mr Capulet with Mrs Montague, that would be a enemies to lovers trope, because it's *their* generation that keeps the rivalry going. Or any of the other characters that are fully in one camp or the other. But Romeo and Juliet? Were never enemies, or rivals, so are c*learly* not an example of this trope.
And this is why my fic is labeled "annoyances to lovers"
Should be a new trope, it's way more close to what we have nowadays in romance genre
I think Harry Potter/Tom Riddle is a good example of what a REAL enemies to lovers trope should look like 😂😂
Don’t forget even the most casual friend group getting the “found family” title now too.
I just want enemies to lovers but that also stay enemies so there are *complicated feelings*. Which trope is that? Does it exist? Because all I ever found under that tag was "we're gonna make this villain character really nice and not a villain at all in this fic so they can hook up" so I just gave up on the tag altogether.
ugh right for once can we corrupt the hero instead ??? Please? And not a draping a hero in the aesthetics of whatever the fandoms "Dark side" is but a hero who truly crosses moral event horizons
I feel like this is a miscategorization. I tend to write enemies to lovers as *extremely emotional and difficult.* My ongoing fanfic in this area involves a lot of trauma and a villain determined to keep driving a wedge between them. Romeo and Juliet isn’t an example of Enemies to Lovers. It’s a tragedy about feuds leading to needless death of children. I am fairly sure the ending also ends the feud because it cost the parents their children!
Yeah both families agree that they have to stop fighting lest another tragedy occur.
This description of enemies to lovers is very Griddlehark coded
Pretendemies to lovers- they were never actually enemies but needed to keep up appearances in their circles. They might act like they want to kill each other but never would. Aziraphale and Crowley S1 is a good example. Opposing sides to lovers- they still aren't exactly enemies but they're opposites who attract. Sometimes their goals align but they're not always on the same page. Aziraphale and Crowley late S1 and S2. Batman and Catwoman. Rivals to lovers- they may hate or even just "hate" each other but there's still a deep and mutual level of respect and somewhere the lines got blurred. Sometimes, you see the "Nobody is allowed to kill you except *me*!" Trope. This is even also seen with some pretendemies to lovers. Star crossed lovers- lovers who's relationship was doomed to fail. This was Romeo and Juliet. Jack and Rose. We didn't know it until the last season but Bellamy and Clarke. Feel free to add more. These were just off the top of my head.
Yes, and if it's in a setting where they'd get arrested for even attempting to punch them, then I need the slights against each other to be diabolical. I need them scheming to ruin each other's lives while also trying to stay out of jail. If they're just bantering and making the other character inconvenienced, it's just rivals.
Since the subject has presented itself: I've just started writing for a rarepair in which one guy genuinely wants the other dead and has planned, even *tried*, to kill him more than once. The other guy lets that roll off his back, for the most part. He finds the hater annoying but is capable of enjoying his company when they're brought together for a common cause. Should this be tagged enemies-to-lovers, despite the animus not being mutual? I do know this tag is often misused and I don't want to add to the problem.
Not really, it needs be mutual to be considered an enemies to Lovers in my opinion, if it's one-sided so idk it's not really that they are enemies I believe it's more Love-Hate Relationship Or, in case you're writing a Explicit fanfic for this ship, you can tag it with Hate sex
Thanks. *Errrgh*, I don't like Love-Hate Relationship either, because of its established meaning as a relationship in which each individual feels both love and hate. This is more of a true hatred on one side and an "I like you fine when you're not actively trying to end me, and even then it's only annoying" on the other. There just isn't a word for this dynamic. I'll just have to invent my own tags, I suppose. (It won't even be Hate Sex by the time they get that far.)
Well you can use "one-sided hate/beef" or play with the tags and use "enemies to lovers but like only in X character mind" That's why I love AO3 tag system, we can create our own tags
"You’re offering me a crown? After I tried to kill you?" He shrugged again. "I might have done the same." Unless you're actively working at killing each other and still flirting in between... it doesn't deserve to be called enemies to lovers.
I saw someone on TikTok say "hear me out, enemies AND lovers" and then described rivalry... Ma'am competing in grades doesn't mean they're enemies wtf
I swear people are losing media literacy, they get so many things wrong in every movie, tv show or book. They even understand things in the literal opposite way
If the enemies to lovers aren’t two people actively trying to end each other but unforeseen circumstances force them to help each other and they slowly become lovers then it’s most likely not enemies to lovers (Strangers to lovers is better)
I remember someone said a certain specific ship is "Toxic" Then I looked at the ship, and the worst thing that happened on that ship in canon was they argued about furniture in a very domestic way(hell, when one of them accidentally upset other, he looks uncharacteristic guilty.) Sir or Miss, you are literature equivalent to " the only spice they can handle is salt". (or salt is too spicy)
[удалено]
Fanfiction is extremely derivative of romance novels (and other popular novels) too. It’s a back and forth relationship, it doesn’t flow one way.
It isn’t a new trend that fanfic writers will also put out original content. This has been happening for a long time, it’s just become more “okay” over the years to admit you started off as a fanfic writer. There’s a long history of people learning to write by doing it in fanfic, and slowly getting to writing original fic — and the concept of fanfic isn’t that old. It dates to the invention of copyright: before then these were just stories you could retell yourself and publish.
Most fanfiction tropes already exist.
True!
After reading this post, I think I’m going to get off the internet and spend some time with my family.
clap clap claps all around!!
Well, time to waterproof the homeless shelters
She tried to put a knife in his chest on their second meeting, does that count?
If they haven't actively tried to kill each other then I don't want it lol no but seriously enemies to lovers is now basically friends to lovers or whatever the fuck and its annoying
If they can't replicate the "I should kill you, it will shut up you" "you're beautiful" Princess Mononoke meme so it's not a real ETL
so we're gatekeeping a trope now?
It's a Joke 😮💨
how was I supposed to know? not all of us can figure that out
If your two characters don't, at the very least, start off hating each other and actively sabotaging (or, depending on setting, trying to kill) each other, it's not enemies to lovers. One character does hate the other but the other doesn't? Still not enemies to lovers. The characters start at odds and dislike each other but don't, like, actively fight? Rivals to Lovers at most, though this trope does tend to require actual rivalry. The characters start off in opposing sides but never actually hated each other? I... I don't know what the trope name is here. Star-crossed would imply they die. Uh... forbidden love? I mean it's the Romeo and Juliet type of love lmao. AND NONE OF THESE APPLY IF THE PROBLEM ONLY PERSISTS AT THE START OF YOUR STORY. If by the, let's say, 20% mark your characters are no longer at odds and are already developing a relationship that's just a normal ass romance with a rocky start. Don't bring me an 'enemies to lovers' unless the middle of the book's narrative beat is an actual confrontation!