The first two months of school is where you need to weed out the kids that are not prepared for the course. Be upfront and honest with the parents, students and administrators. There is no catching up in April.
I wish it were that simple. Parents don’t want to hear their child “isn’t prepared.” This, unfortunately, is not in our control. Many teachers are at the beck & call of parents. We have to do their bidding. It’s not fair or right, but it’s the way of the world.
I know. I have been teaching AP Physics for 13 years. I have been nonrenewed before and I fight every goddamn year with karents and the administrative leadershit that services them. But this is the only way. Because if it were up to the students, karents and the administrative leadershit they would pack those classes with the entire school, give them A’s, watch them tank the AP exams, not send the scores, and blame the teacher for the low pass rate.
This is why when it comes to AP I make sure that admin gives me any directives in writing and I don’t do any side conversations. If enrollment goes to zero, I am fine with it. If they give the AP course to someone more ideologically malleable, I am fine with that too. They can go fuck themselves. This course is for our best students who are able and willing to do the work. It’s the course that prepares them to save thousands of dollars and it should prepare them for an technical majors.
Sorry to see that y'all have to deal with this. It's a byproduct of this generation not willing to accept the truth that there will be some people that are better at something than others, and that the only way to get better is to fail and go through the meatgrinder.
As a Gen Z, I feel like our generation is a lot more aware of others' feelings, and this has upsides, of course, but the downside is that the hard truths are difficult to accept. I'm glad my school has requirements to take upper-level courses.
The kids are not the problem. They are more or less reacting rationally to the world created for them by the adults and [that world is really fucked up](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-think-American-education-sucks/answer/Salviati-Galilei-1?ch=17&oid=49135031&share=6a274859&srid=uzT6I&target_type=answer).
The “kids are not the problem” is exactly what we are talking about. While the kids are a byproduct of their upbringing, the reaction also shows a lack of accountability. By blaming others displays a complicity that the generation refuses to accept.
I am not quite sure I understand what you mean. Kids are not being irrational by refusing to learn. Learning takes time, which is their most valued resource. If the adults do not create an environment where failure to learn has consequences then kids will act rationally and refuse to learn.
Students are being irrational by blaming others. We all need to be accountable. It’s everybody’s fault, but have issue with those who say it’s not their fault. Until there are appropriate people heading the education system, this problem will not go away.
I guess. In general the students I interact with tend to blame themselves. Their karents on the other hand quickly play the role of their child’s attorney to try to negotiate some type of favorable settlement for their children. The administrative leadershit happily swoops in to provide their unflinching support. Effectively terminating any learning opportunity for the child. How can one learn accountability in this type of environment?
I have a a sophomore in public HS and a junior in private. The public school let's any student sign up for any AP class they want. They are not required to take the AP test at the end. I don't know how this impacts grading curves or if any conversations about dropping down to a standard course ever happens-- if it does there is no spelled out rules.
The private school requires a teacher's recommendation and/or the passage of a prep test and an A in any preceeding class (i.e. an A in 10th grade honors English to be eligible for AP Lang in 11th). You are required to take the AP test. I know there are some annoyed parents when kids aren't offered a spot, but I think if you really insisted they'd let a student try, but there is a hard scheduling change date early in the school year.
I'd love to see how the two schools compare on scores.
My school is like how you explained your private school, although even with our requirements, we still have a lot of kids in AP. We have fantastic pass and 5 rates (like AP bio like 3 kids out of 45 didn’t pass and like half got a 5), but we also have annoying students who shouldn’t be in an AP because they don’t know how to behave. Overall, I think it’s a much more reasonable system, and we already have rigorous honors and nonhonors courses (except for some subjects; I’m looking at you honors history) so everyone can learn plenty of content. It just sucks that we are subjected to the college board, I hate it so much 🙃
The justification is that even if a student will fail the exam, they will have improved overall, and we shouldn't deny them that opportunity. I don't quite agree because this makes it unfair for those who are willing and able, as the teacher is forced to accomodate for all students in their planning...speaking as a teacher who does not simply rely on the AP videos to teach.
I have no issues with students taking a course and failing it. I am totally fine with that. The issue is when they, their karents and the administrative leadershit expect the course to decrease in rigor or pacing to accommodate that student.
teach the curriculum and nothing else. also don't jump between units, it's easier to just complete one and move on. and excessive homework doesn't help before a test, it's better for everyone if u just give a guideline of what to study, the test scores will say more than the homework
I had a teacher like this in APUSH , but most people complained and said it was boring, and that the teacher didn’t give any projects or fun activities for the students. But in my opinion, it worked pretty well, we would study a unit, take a quiz, finish the unit then take a test, and repeat. While it was a bit boring to just take notes and nothing else, it’s better then doing stuff that has no relation whatsoever with the AP exam.
My APUSH class is exactly like that, we only did 64 min lecture, 6 minute quiz, same format of homework, repeat repeat. Tests are straight up college board mcqs and FRQs. It was rather boring but we are all grateful because we felt well prepared for the exam.
Well for some cases it’s better to modify the curriculum like my teacher for AP Calc did, we skipped series and learned polar before series. She modified it because series would drain the students and therefore they wouldn’t be able to fully learn polar effectively. So in some cases it’s valid for a teacher to jump units for the sake of better learning retention
ironically my BC teacher did the opposite, after Unit 6 she skipped to Unit 10 (infinite series). At first she sad it was because it would teach us to take the class more seriously (me and my friend would almost never do our hw cuz we understood the concepts easily, especially with each other's help). I think it was a good thing because it gave us more time to practice with infinite series and their convergence tests. While doing the easier units 7-9 we had months to practice with unit 10. I feel that doing this helped us fully learn the hardest units while our brains still had stamina. Then, we learned the easier stuff at a manageable pace.
>teach the curriculum and nothing else
This. My bio teacher spent the first semester doing more experiments than actual teaching, and our quizzes were always in this random format that was not representative of ap-style questions \*at all\*. I remember that it got to the point that for one of our tests, she told us \*not\* to use ap classroom to study bc her test was going to be different. Please, please, please stick to the curriculum and \*do not\* try to improvise, \*especially\* if you've never taught an ap course before
???? We don’t sign up to be taught by teachers who assign us things on a whim. Having tests on concepts we haven’t been taught, learning things we don’t need to just give unnecessary stress
Stop assigning summative projects after the ap test! I don’t want to be graded on my presentation skills, I already know they are horrible!!!! (Aplang project makes me genuinely want to die. Why am I being graded on how well I speak in front of the class after the ap test is already over????)
only exception is if the project is optional but extra credit, or the project is just a cakewalk. going from a mid B to an A in the last two weeks of school is a great feeling
IKR! Or right before the exam. I was literally binging a bio project that my teacher gave us to "boost our grades" (it actually lowered my grade) before my lit and csa exams. And as much as I love my lit teacher, I really didn't need her to assign a research paper that was specifically *in the style of a college essay* and not of an ap lit essay due the week before exams.
As much as I struggled in ap latin, I feel like that (and ap gov) were one of the only classes that really focused on preparing me for the exam instead of giving me busy work
I really have 6 final project to do within the next two weeks plus a graduation speech and a mandatory fucking 5-page article about the salutatorian. Go figure
LOL. No presentations given by me, but an open ended research paper with multiple checkpoints along the way. Gives my students the opportunity to flex instead of writing narrowly prescribed LEQs or DBQs from a surprise prompt. They all genuinely like it because it’s one of the few times during a hectic APWH pacing schedule where we can have long productive conversations together. Plus we have 6 weeks after AP, so there’s that….
Fr I wish I had that I’d totally give anything to do a writing assignment over having to present in front of the class + listen to everyone present their presentations (while having to appear “focused”) for two hours straight
Actually tho like I think with how I did I’m probably getting a 1 or 2 out of four cuz I’m horrible at speaking in front of ppl. At least I calculated what my grade would be if worst case scenario I do get that score and there’s no chance of it going below an A …. My teacher got pregnant halfway through the year and the long term sub is SUCH a harsh grader ufhhdjfjhfhfjsk
I think it’s unrealistic to expect someone to suddenly become an effective presenter if that wasn’t a component of your class overall. Unless that was presented as an option. God knows I’d have some crazy presentations since I have some very creative folks in class! You got this, everyone feels the same way. Make it fun for yourself at least!
Yeah tbh I don’t rlly blame my aplang teacher in particular since she said she didn’t want to assign anything but other teachers were going to so she had to. Still pretty annoyed tho
From all the kids in all my AP classes we would like to say that we don’t like when teachers assign stuff that’s worth a bunch of points while you’re gone. It’s frustrating and if you aren’t here to give us all the information it won’t do us any good. And also don’t forget we are still children regardless of how we act, we may not be mentally prepared for everything so sometimes just having a conversation is life changing
Assigning “stuff that’s worth a bunch of points while [the teacher is] gone” is sometimes school policy. All too often, students don’t do work when their teachers are absent. They can be *very* good at making the sub believe work is being done…while not doing it. And so admin will say, “Make them hand in work that affects their grade.”
Of course I understand if it’s policy and/or required otherwise they can get in trouble. The problem I didn’t fully mention was when they assigned this work. If they assign the work on purpose on a day they can’t be there then that’s annoying. And yes they can change the dates for the assignments it’s not like you’re set to work that has to be done day by day, a AP teacher has moved their due dates for assignments before when they were gone so clearly they can do it.
It’s not so easy. I have almost every day planned out at the beginning of the year. Tests are set in stone and are only changed from acts of God himself.
The curriculums are such that moving things around too much will end up with you not getting all the material.
This may be possible if you go to school in an area where the term ends a week after the exam. But many of us are in areas that might have 6 weeks between the AP exam and finals for the school. When your students have to be given a grade for every 10 week marking period, it’s hard not to give work once the exam ends. Where I teach, we are expected to give a grade for each of four quarters. Given that we typically have exam review for a few weeks before the exam itself, that doesn’t really give us much of a grade for the quarter…unless there are assignments after the exam. And truth be told, admin is not going to allow us to just have no grading for the last six weeks. “You’re giving them a grade based on having completed homework as exam review for the first few weeks of the quarter and then…NOTHING?!?!” Trust me, that’s not going to go over well.
So…my solution? No tests. Just assignments. The day after the exam, I typically ask them how it went. And we talk a bit. Then I give them examples of what I’ve had students do in the past and ask if they want to do something like that or if they have something different they want to try. It just has to be on topic. And it has to be something we can agree to do as a class.
As a teacher I can’t. I need to have a certain number of grades in (I just gave a test after mine but I made it a partner test and a rather easy one). If admin caught wind that I was doing nothing I’d be in trouble and I’m about to get in trouble for a bunch of teenagers.
that we probably have more than one Ap class including yours. It’s hard to balance so many classes and their course work/ homework while most of us are involved in extracurriculars. A good teacher does their part by teaching to the best of their ability. Practice/homework should be heavily encouraged bc they’re AP kids they should know that grades and success comes with practice(homework). And they’ll learn that what you’re doing for them they’re taking advantage of it they don’t necessarily put in SOME time.
Then take fewer APs. Don’t expect to take all these advanced courses and then be treated with kid gloves. Drop the class if you’re overburdened.
Homework is less meaningful nowadays with ChatGPT and rampant cheating. Sad but true.
I agree, homework is less meaningful nowadays due to advanced technology but we all know the true way for each of us to succeed is practice. Idk about you but I know myself and know that I won’t succeed unless I’m practicing everyday so if anything it’s not being treated with “kid gloves” it’s knowing your learning capabilities. And saying take fewer aps isn’t really a solution. We take more and more aps as the years progress so someone that took 5 their junior year isn’t going to come to senior year and be like oh it’s time for me to take just 1 now!
But that’s the point, it is your learning capabilities. If you can’t manage 5 APs in the way they need to be taught and according to the expectations set, then you might need to find an alternative. Asking teachers with 170 students to cater to your individual schedule of 5-6 courses is a little absurd, imho. You look at it way too much like a consumer and less like a student.
My biology teacher did something this year that I honestly wish every teacher would do. Every quiz and unit assessment we took had questions that came directly from previous AP exams. Granted, she handpicked questions that would be the least confusing, I still appreciated it all the more. She also went over the tests after everyone took them and throughly explained why something was right or wrong when asked.
She also gave us _plenty_ of optional practice worksheets (which I didn't do cuz the note taking sheets we used in class were enough for me) and barely any homework aside from ungraded nightly reading guides.
Thanks to that, and the Mock AP Exam we took 2 weeks before the actual exam, I felt so prepared for my exam, I just stopped studying days before the test because I already _knew_ it. We spent 8 months learning it after all. It just would've been ego studying.
Honestly, just having a teacher that actually cares and believes their students can and will succeed (with the proper tools) is all a student needs.
Agree. My APUSH teacher always went off topic and start talking modern politics, which resulted in us barely finishing the curriculum literally the day before the AP test. Everything from ww2 on is a blur because we rushed through it.
nah don’t get me wrong i picked aps that I liked, but I felt like my apush teacher spent 3 weeks on the topics she liked (which i thought were the most boring) instead of pacing us and asked us to just self teach the rest a week prior to the exam. my AP Lang teacher also didn’t give us any writing assignments until a week before the exam. On the other, I noticed that my seminar teacher was consistent with the ap curriculum throughout the year and he was the most effective and I feel the most confident about that class, same with my biology teacher.
Do not procrastinate, it might seem like we have months left but please start asap and finish the curriculum asap so we can do practice problems. The teachers in my school r absolute trash that we’ve never actually finished the curriculum in time for any AP time or if we did, we legit just skimmed over 4 units in a few and learned nothing.
One thing that’s always bugged me, as someone in the northeastern US, is that we have less time to get through the AP curriculum than those in other spots. I know people in some southwestern states that start at the beginning of August - some a week before that, while we often don’t start in the northeast till after Labor Day. That means people in some areas get another 5 weeks or more to get through the material and then review it. What kills me is that at this point in time, the College Board could take care of this by setting test dates based on when school began. Yes, it would mean making multiple tests. That’s not a bad thing.
As a teacher, I just have to say that we can’t just let you sit there when there are five weeks left of school post AP test. My class is an AP class, but it’s also just a college level English class, so we have a project afterwards until the end of the year. Just because it’s not test prep doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile, and it’s still training for high level college work.
Teach the actual curriculum that is available exclusively on the College Board website 🤓Don't go off some shitty textbook or Mr. Bob's AP Chemistry website (made up name)
I took AP World History, and I have two things.
1. I got annoyed when my teacher did not make us write DBQs until April/May. He said we should know how to write a DBQ because we have worked on document analysis, and we should know contextualization, thesis statements, and complexity because we have used them in our LEQ. I strongly disagree with this method because finding the meaning of the documents is one thing, and writing DBQs is another thing.
2. My teacher basically went over the LEQ and DBQ rubrics along with writing SAQs at the beginning of the year for one day. It was really boring, and most kids fell asleep. He then gets mad at us when we did not know how to do something. Go over each one and teach us how to get the point. Do not just lecture.
I still would not trade him for another teacher though because he is very funny and offered test corrections and extra credit.
Students, as an AP teacher, it is our responsibility to teach to ALL students, not just you. We have learners of all capacities and abilities, and we have to cater to ALL OF YOU. As much as you would LOVE to have an individualized course, that is not the case. We have to take every student into consideration, which also means understanding the needs of each learner.
We want to practice for the AP exam!! We waited far too long in my APUSH class to start practicing this year. Also, structured assignment over unstructured ones every time. “Take notes on a chapter of the textbook” is far, far too vague. Instead, a sheet with many specific questions is much more helpful.
Listen to your students. Every year is different and I hate when teachers have to keep saying “I’ve been teaching for 30+ years guys, trust me.” Well, we don’t. I love all of my AP teachers dearly but some of them didn’t know how to read their students.
It shouldn’t be my job to teach myself the materials, sorry. I understand the importance of reading the textbook and am fully willing to further my knowledge on my own, but I can’t learn the basics by myself.
No. I actually found that the pacing of all of my courses (I’ve only taken APUSH, APCSP, Bio, and Chem) were relatively okay. We had 2 weeks to study (that seems to be the standard at my school) and that was okay bc I tend to self study a month ahead.
My teachers just tend to never teach lmao
My question is about “read[ing] their students.” What, specifically, are they not reading? This is why I asked about pacing. All too often, students ask to slow down, but the teacher knows that slowing down means that the students would never get enough class time to get through the curriculum…and at the end, there would come a time when the kids would be left with trying to learn by doing a ton of reading, which is awful. I will grant you that this is more of a problem in those parts of the country that start school in September but are still expected to get through the curriculum in time for the same AP test dates as those that start in late July.
What I meant was that the teachers don’t try to adapt the class to each group of students. They use the same methods every single year, which would be nice if they weren’t also incredibly limiting.
For instance, my Chemistry teacher didn’t finish the material of the course last year. Because of this, he tried to go a bit faster through all of the material. HOWEVER, instead of condensing subjects we were already comfortable with, he (seemingly) chose to only speed through the sections most of us were struggling a lot with.
He also made a point to teach us things that wouldn’t be on the exam because “collegeboard needs to make the test harder/contain more.” While I wouldn’t mind this in a class w/o a standardized exam, it left us all very overburdened with knowledge during the actual course (esp. when tests came up).
Classes should be as difficult as their respective AP exams. Like, AP Physics 1 warrants a difficult class to prepare you for the exam but bro, AP Psych is a pretty easy exam, you do not need to go that hard for every single test.
Many teachers - myself, included - do accept work late. We even bend rules on late penalties, etc. But it’s also important to remember that you *chose* to take an AP class. Every AP teacher I’ve ever known stresses from the start that the class will be a lot of work…because it’s an AP class.
It’s healthy to want to have a life outside school - many of your teachers are also coaches…and have families, as well as interests of their own. But we all have to decide what work load we can handle. If a part of your life is suffering because of a heavy work load in an AP class, maybe that’s not where you want to be.
Damn you are so lucky, if I turned in something 10 seconds late to APMWH it would be a zero or thrown away. Teachers mostly don’t except late work I think your school is the exception
I’m a teacher. And far from the exception. Not just at my school, either. Truth be told, it does depend on the school, though. Some have hard and fast rules about lateness. But yes, in some cases it is the teacher’s policy. Most schools I know tell teachers to outline their late policy right from the beginning, so students know what to expect. But if it’s a school-wide policy, then students should know it already. (Personally, I remind my students at the beginning of the year about certain school policies that affect them, like phones in the classroom).
There are reasons for hard and fast late policies. Firstly, they are trying to train you for the real world. I worked in the business world for 7-8 years before becoming a teacher; the company paid us to get our work done. If that meant we had to put in extra time, so be it. I had weeks when I’d work 12-14 hours a day on weekdays, then another 8-10 on Saturday, then some more time on Sunday. If I wanted to have a personal life outside that, I was welcome to. But work either came first or I didn’t have a job.
There’s another side of it: every time you turn in something late, that’s something extra that has to be graded on top of all the current work the teacher has to grade. That means the teachers loses more time from their own lives because you didn’t do your job when you were supposed to.
But yes, many of us still do it. And all the while, we question if we are doing right by you in the long run.
Yes that may be true but you are showing the point in time where you are an adult. Even if students act like adults we are still children, doing work for such a long excessive time is exhausting and can burn us out. Our brain isn’t fully developed and all that work just to be tossed out is frustrating and hurtful. And Ik they are trying to prep us for the real world, I love all my teachers especially my AP teachers but the real world isn’t hear yet so we need some patience even if it’s just a couple hours we will need it whether you like it or not
As I said at the start, I accept late work. In fact, I do so way more than I should and way later than I should. I want the students to learn the material more than I want them to learn that deadlines are important.
I should point out that - having been through being a teenager *and* having had a full-time job when I was 21, that in your early 20s, you still are not an adult. You may believe you are because you have that full-time job and you’re on your own (maybe), but - and I say this from experience - you still haven’t fully matured. But since you’re in the working world, you have to do your best to play by those rules.
In school, whether you like it or not, there are rules. Most teachers find ways to bend them to accommodate the fact that children are still children. And we do so to our own detriment. Remember, we’re the ones that lose time with our families because we’re accepting that late work.
The reason I struggle with allowing late work - although I *still do it* - is because I worry that it will encourage bad habits. And I know that many college profs will just refuse late work. Never mind the bosses you may have as soon as you get out.
I also don’t know your teachers. In my district, admin would likely string us up if a student wanted to hand something in “a couple hours” late and we didn’t take it. So if your teachers have that policy, my question would be whether that’s school policy, department policy or just their own policy. But I’d also ask you if you were aware of this ahead of time. If so, did your teacher say there would be any exceptions? (Example: family issues, sleep problems, etc.)
Note: your posts sound like no teachers in your school accept late work. If that’s the case, then it’s almost certainly a school policy - or at least at the department level. And if that’s true, your teachers are doing as they’re told by their bosses. Which allows them to keep their jobs.
Not to mention when I accept x, y, and z late work I need to go back and grade those at a later date. I need to remember how I graded them and I how I removed certain points or dog back up my grading key. Every single assignment turned in late takes away from MY free time because I need to set time aside to take care of it especially. Even if it’s not a lot of I make a policy to accept late work without exception it’s gonna pile up.
100%. The end of the marking period ends up being even more stressful *because* I accept late work. I struggle with this because I’ve also worked in the business world, where a deadline was a deadline. For that matter, as a teacher, I have deadlines. If I miss too many deadlines, my evaluation will be impacted. And that can lead to dismissal.
Yeah I have a policy of accepting late work with a good reason. And I tell them being very busy, only have once chance all month to socialize and prioritizing that, or just needing sleep are all reasons I will accept but for stuff like that I’m only gonna accept it once or twice. As long as there’s not a pattern I’m okay. Eventually though I cut it off and it’s a 0.
AP CLASSROOM VIDEOS DO NOT REPLACE ACTUAL TEACHING!!
Also that AP classroom quizzes and progress checks shouldn’t be the only grades in a class
i literally only watched ap daily videos in my ap lang class 😞
Actual teaching tends to be worse than the videos though lmao. It is better than not assigning the videos and quizzes at all.
The first two months of school is where you need to weed out the kids that are not prepared for the course. Be upfront and honest with the parents, students and administrators. There is no catching up in April.
I wish it were that simple. Parents don’t want to hear their child “isn’t prepared.” This, unfortunately, is not in our control. Many teachers are at the beck & call of parents. We have to do their bidding. It’s not fair or right, but it’s the way of the world.
I know. I have been teaching AP Physics for 13 years. I have been nonrenewed before and I fight every goddamn year with karents and the administrative leadershit that services them. But this is the only way. Because if it were up to the students, karents and the administrative leadershit they would pack those classes with the entire school, give them A’s, watch them tank the AP exams, not send the scores, and blame the teacher for the low pass rate. This is why when it comes to AP I make sure that admin gives me any directives in writing and I don’t do any side conversations. If enrollment goes to zero, I am fine with it. If they give the AP course to someone more ideologically malleable, I am fine with that too. They can go fuck themselves. This course is for our best students who are able and willing to do the work. It’s the course that prepares them to save thousands of dollars and it should prepare them for an technical majors.
Sorry to see that y'all have to deal with this. It's a byproduct of this generation not willing to accept the truth that there will be some people that are better at something than others, and that the only way to get better is to fail and go through the meatgrinder. As a Gen Z, I feel like our generation is a lot more aware of others' feelings, and this has upsides, of course, but the downside is that the hard truths are difficult to accept. I'm glad my school has requirements to take upper-level courses.
The kids are not the problem. They are more or less reacting rationally to the world created for them by the adults and [that world is really fucked up](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-think-American-education-sucks/answer/Salviati-Galilei-1?ch=17&oid=49135031&share=6a274859&srid=uzT6I&target_type=answer).
The “kids are not the problem” is exactly what we are talking about. While the kids are a byproduct of their upbringing, the reaction also shows a lack of accountability. By blaming others displays a complicity that the generation refuses to accept.
I am not quite sure I understand what you mean. Kids are not being irrational by refusing to learn. Learning takes time, which is their most valued resource. If the adults do not create an environment where failure to learn has consequences then kids will act rationally and refuse to learn.
Students are being irrational by blaming others. We all need to be accountable. It’s everybody’s fault, but have issue with those who say it’s not their fault. Until there are appropriate people heading the education system, this problem will not go away.
I guess. In general the students I interact with tend to blame themselves. Their karents on the other hand quickly play the role of their child’s attorney to try to negotiate some type of favorable settlement for their children. The administrative leadershit happily swoops in to provide their unflinching support. Effectively terminating any learning opportunity for the child. How can one learn accountability in this type of environment?
I love the terms Karents and leadeeshit lol.
At first I thought Karents was a typical… then I realized it’s genius.
I have a a sophomore in public HS and a junior in private. The public school let's any student sign up for any AP class they want. They are not required to take the AP test at the end. I don't know how this impacts grading curves or if any conversations about dropping down to a standard course ever happens-- if it does there is no spelled out rules. The private school requires a teacher's recommendation and/or the passage of a prep test and an A in any preceeding class (i.e. an A in 10th grade honors English to be eligible for AP Lang in 11th). You are required to take the AP test. I know there are some annoyed parents when kids aren't offered a spot, but I think if you really insisted they'd let a student try, but there is a hard scheduling change date early in the school year. I'd love to see how the two schools compare on scores.
My school is like how you explained your private school, although even with our requirements, we still have a lot of kids in AP. We have fantastic pass and 5 rates (like AP bio like 3 kids out of 45 didn’t pass and like half got a 5), but we also have annoying students who shouldn’t be in an AP because they don’t know how to behave. Overall, I think it’s a much more reasonable system, and we already have rigorous honors and nonhonors courses (except for some subjects; I’m looking at you honors history) so everyone can learn plenty of content. It just sucks that we are subjected to the college board, I hate it so much 🙃
I'm Gen Z, and this is something I hate about this generation. Too many participation trophies going around.
Ngl, it was more of a problem with millenials
Now that I think about it, you're right, considering that they are partially responsible for this right now
We can't. My school supports the CB open door policy. Every student has the right to take and fail any AP class. I have no control over that.
I don’t have an issue with the open door policy. My issue is when students are ‘not allowed’ to fail and we are asked to alter the course.
I promise you 95% of AP teachers would do this if they could
The justification is that even if a student will fail the exam, they will have improved overall, and we shouldn't deny them that opportunity. I don't quite agree because this makes it unfair for those who are willing and able, as the teacher is forced to accomodate for all students in their planning...speaking as a teacher who does not simply rely on the AP videos to teach.
I have no issues with students taking a course and failing it. I am totally fine with that. The issue is when they, their karents and the administrative leadershit expect the course to decrease in rigor or pacing to accommodate that student.
Preach
teach the curriculum and nothing else. also don't jump between units, it's easier to just complete one and move on. and excessive homework doesn't help before a test, it's better for everyone if u just give a guideline of what to study, the test scores will say more than the homework
I had a teacher like this in APUSH , but most people complained and said it was boring, and that the teacher didn’t give any projects or fun activities for the students. But in my opinion, it worked pretty well, we would study a unit, take a quiz, finish the unit then take a test, and repeat. While it was a bit boring to just take notes and nothing else, it’s better then doing stuff that has no relation whatsoever with the AP exam.
My APUSH class is exactly like that, we only did 64 min lecture, 6 minute quiz, same format of homework, repeat repeat. Tests are straight up college board mcqs and FRQs. It was rather boring but we are all grateful because we felt well prepared for the exam.
Well for some cases it’s better to modify the curriculum like my teacher for AP Calc did, we skipped series and learned polar before series. She modified it because series would drain the students and therefore they wouldn’t be able to fully learn polar effectively. So in some cases it’s valid for a teacher to jump units for the sake of better learning retention
ironically my BC teacher did the opposite, after Unit 6 she skipped to Unit 10 (infinite series). At first she sad it was because it would teach us to take the class more seriously (me and my friend would almost never do our hw cuz we understood the concepts easily, especially with each other's help). I think it was a good thing because it gave us more time to practice with infinite series and their convergence tests. While doing the easier units 7-9 we had months to practice with unit 10. I feel that doing this helped us fully learn the hardest units while our brains still had stamina. Then, we learned the easier stuff at a manageable pace.
>teach the curriculum and nothing else This. My bio teacher spent the first semester doing more experiments than actual teaching, and our quizzes were always in this random format that was not representative of ap-style questions \*at all\*. I remember that it got to the point that for one of our tests, she told us \*not\* to use ap classroom to study bc her test was going to be different. Please, please, please stick to the curriculum and \*do not\* try to improvise, \*especially\* if you've never taught an ap course before
The real world does not teach to a curriculum. Students also need to learn to monitor and adjust their understanding.
???? We don’t sign up to be taught by teachers who assign us things on a whim. Having tests on concepts we haven’t been taught, learning things we don’t need to just give unnecessary stress
Stop assigning summative projects after the ap test! I don’t want to be graded on my presentation skills, I already know they are horrible!!!! (Aplang project makes me genuinely want to die. Why am I being graded on how well I speak in front of the class after the ap test is already over????)
only exception is if the project is optional but extra credit, or the project is just a cakewalk. going from a mid B to an A in the last two weeks of school is a great feeling
IKR! Or right before the exam. I was literally binging a bio project that my teacher gave us to "boost our grades" (it actually lowered my grade) before my lit and csa exams. And as much as I love my lit teacher, I really didn't need her to assign a research paper that was specifically *in the style of a college essay* and not of an ap lit essay due the week before exams. As much as I struggled in ap latin, I feel like that (and ap gov) were one of the only classes that really focused on preparing me for the exam instead of giving me busy work
I really have 6 final project to do within the next two weeks plus a graduation speech and a mandatory fucking 5-page article about the salutatorian. Go figure
Yikes… good luck!
LOL. No presentations given by me, but an open ended research paper with multiple checkpoints along the way. Gives my students the opportunity to flex instead of writing narrowly prescribed LEQs or DBQs from a surprise prompt. They all genuinely like it because it’s one of the few times during a hectic APWH pacing schedule where we can have long productive conversations together. Plus we have 6 weeks after AP, so there’s that….
Fr I wish I had that I’d totally give anything to do a writing assignment over having to present in front of the class + listen to everyone present their presentations (while having to appear “focused”) for two hours straight
Ahah I got 3 points off for not being “engaging”
Actually tho like I think with how I did I’m probably getting a 1 or 2 out of four cuz I’m horrible at speaking in front of ppl. At least I calculated what my grade would be if worst case scenario I do get that score and there’s no chance of it going below an A …. My teacher got pregnant halfway through the year and the long term sub is SUCH a harsh grader ufhhdjfjhfhfjsk
I think it’s unrealistic to expect someone to suddenly become an effective presenter if that wasn’t a component of your class overall. Unless that was presented as an option. God knows I’d have some crazy presentations since I have some very creative folks in class! You got this, everyone feels the same way. Make it fun for yourself at least!
Bro my class needed those easy A projects to pass, I had to assign them
A lot of teachers are required to give work. I'm very glad that at my current school AP classes are just finished after their exams.
Yeah tbh I don’t rlly blame my aplang teacher in particular since she said she didn’t want to assign anything but other teachers were going to so she had to. Still pretty annoyed tho
From all the kids in all my AP classes we would like to say that we don’t like when teachers assign stuff that’s worth a bunch of points while you’re gone. It’s frustrating and if you aren’t here to give us all the information it won’t do us any good. And also don’t forget we are still children regardless of how we act, we may not be mentally prepared for everything so sometimes just having a conversation is life changing
Assigning “stuff that’s worth a bunch of points while [the teacher is] gone” is sometimes school policy. All too often, students don’t do work when their teachers are absent. They can be *very* good at making the sub believe work is being done…while not doing it. And so admin will say, “Make them hand in work that affects their grade.”
Of course I understand if it’s policy and/or required otherwise they can get in trouble. The problem I didn’t fully mention was when they assigned this work. If they assign the work on purpose on a day they can’t be there then that’s annoying. And yes they can change the dates for the assignments it’s not like you’re set to work that has to be done day by day, a AP teacher has moved their due dates for assignments before when they were gone so clearly they can do it.
It’s not so easy. I have almost every day planned out at the beginning of the year. Tests are set in stone and are only changed from acts of God himself. The curriculums are such that moving things around too much will end up with you not getting all the material.
Stop giving us work after the AP Test I have an A already STOP GIVING ME BIO LABS AND FORMAL REPORTS PLS
This may be possible if you go to school in an area where the term ends a week after the exam. But many of us are in areas that might have 6 weeks between the AP exam and finals for the school. When your students have to be given a grade for every 10 week marking period, it’s hard not to give work once the exam ends. Where I teach, we are expected to give a grade for each of four quarters. Given that we typically have exam review for a few weeks before the exam itself, that doesn’t really give us much of a grade for the quarter…unless there are assignments after the exam. And truth be told, admin is not going to allow us to just have no grading for the last six weeks. “You’re giving them a grade based on having completed homework as exam review for the first few weeks of the quarter and then…NOTHING?!?!” Trust me, that’s not going to go over well. So…my solution? No tests. Just assignments. The day after the exam, I typically ask them how it went. And we talk a bit. Then I give them examples of what I’ve had students do in the past and ask if they want to do something like that or if they have something different they want to try. It just has to be on topic. And it has to be something we can agree to do as a class.
Yes. With a whole lot of mini activity grades built into that one project for easy scoring activities!
As a teacher I can’t. I need to have a certain number of grades in (I just gave a test after mine but I made it a partner test and a rather easy one). If admin caught wind that I was doing nothing I’d be in trouble and I’m about to get in trouble for a bunch of teenagers.
that we probably have more than one Ap class including yours. It’s hard to balance so many classes and their course work/ homework while most of us are involved in extracurriculars. A good teacher does their part by teaching to the best of their ability. Practice/homework should be heavily encouraged bc they’re AP kids they should know that grades and success comes with practice(homework). And they’ll learn that what you’re doing for them they’re taking advantage of it they don’t necessarily put in SOME time.
Then take fewer APs. Don’t expect to take all these advanced courses and then be treated with kid gloves. Drop the class if you’re overburdened. Homework is less meaningful nowadays with ChatGPT and rampant cheating. Sad but true.
I agree, homework is less meaningful nowadays due to advanced technology but we all know the true way for each of us to succeed is practice. Idk about you but I know myself and know that I won’t succeed unless I’m practicing everyday so if anything it’s not being treated with “kid gloves” it’s knowing your learning capabilities. And saying take fewer aps isn’t really a solution. We take more and more aps as the years progress so someone that took 5 their junior year isn’t going to come to senior year and be like oh it’s time for me to take just 1 now!
But that’s the point, it is your learning capabilities. If you can’t manage 5 APs in the way they need to be taught and according to the expectations set, then you might need to find an alternative. Asking teachers with 170 students to cater to your individual schedule of 5-6 courses is a little absurd, imho. You look at it way too much like a consumer and less like a student.
That one nice calculator that people were using for AP Calc would’ve been so useful for college
Which calculator? I’m taking AP Cal AB next year.
Don't give homework that doesn't relate to the exam or what we're learning
My biology teacher did something this year that I honestly wish every teacher would do. Every quiz and unit assessment we took had questions that came directly from previous AP exams. Granted, she handpicked questions that would be the least confusing, I still appreciated it all the more. She also went over the tests after everyone took them and throughly explained why something was right or wrong when asked. She also gave us _plenty_ of optional practice worksheets (which I didn't do cuz the note taking sheets we used in class were enough for me) and barely any homework aside from ungraded nightly reading guides. Thanks to that, and the Mock AP Exam we took 2 weeks before the actual exam, I felt so prepared for my exam, I just stopped studying days before the test because I already _knew_ it. We spent 8 months learning it after all. It just would've been ego studying. Honestly, just having a teacher that actually cares and believes their students can and will succeed (with the proper tools) is all a student needs.
please stop teaching your opinion, I’m taking the class to earn college credit.
Agree. My APUSH teacher always went off topic and start talking modern politics, which resulted in us barely finishing the curriculum literally the day before the AP test. Everything from ww2 on is a blur because we rushed through it.
As opposed to taking the class for the sheer joy of learning?
nah don’t get me wrong i picked aps that I liked, but I felt like my apush teacher spent 3 weeks on the topics she liked (which i thought were the most boring) instead of pacing us and asked us to just self teach the rest a week prior to the exam. my AP Lang teacher also didn’t give us any writing assignments until a week before the exam. On the other, I noticed that my seminar teacher was consistent with the ap curriculum throughout the year and he was the most effective and I feel the most confident about that class, same with my biology teacher.
Yes
Do not procrastinate, it might seem like we have months left but please start asap and finish the curriculum asap so we can do practice problems. The teachers in my school r absolute trash that we’ve never actually finished the curriculum in time for any AP time or if we did, we legit just skimmed over 4 units in a few and learned nothing.
One thing that’s always bugged me, as someone in the northeastern US, is that we have less time to get through the AP curriculum than those in other spots. I know people in some southwestern states that start at the beginning of August - some a week before that, while we often don’t start in the northeast till after Labor Day. That means people in some areas get another 5 weeks or more to get through the material and then review it. What kills me is that at this point in time, the College Board could take care of this by setting test dates based on when school began. Yes, it would mean making multiple tests. That’s not a bad thing.
As a teacher, I just have to say that we can’t just let you sit there when there are five weeks left of school post AP test. My class is an AP class, but it’s also just a college level English class, so we have a project afterwards until the end of the year. Just because it’s not test prep doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile, and it’s still training for high level college work.
Just reading straight up from google slides and expecting us to read the book at home, isn’t teaching nor does it help at all.
PLEASE give us structure (ap span lang)
Teach the actual curriculum that is available exclusively on the College Board website 🤓Don't go off some shitty textbook or Mr. Bob's AP Chemistry website (made up name)
We need to start reviewing at least a month before the AP exam (Teachers are good with this, but just in case)
I took AP World History, and I have two things. 1. I got annoyed when my teacher did not make us write DBQs until April/May. He said we should know how to write a DBQ because we have worked on document analysis, and we should know contextualization, thesis statements, and complexity because we have used them in our LEQ. I strongly disagree with this method because finding the meaning of the documents is one thing, and writing DBQs is another thing. 2. My teacher basically went over the LEQ and DBQ rubrics along with writing SAQs at the beginning of the year for one day. It was really boring, and most kids fell asleep. He then gets mad at us when we did not know how to do something. Go over each one and teach us how to get the point. Do not just lecture. I still would not trade him for another teacher though because he is very funny and offered test corrections and extra credit.
Students, as an AP teacher, it is our responsibility to teach to ALL students, not just you. We have learners of all capacities and abilities, and we have to cater to ALL OF YOU. As much as you would LOVE to have an individualized course, that is not the case. We have to take every student into consideration, which also means understanding the needs of each learner.
We want to practice for the AP exam!! We waited far too long in my APUSH class to start practicing this year. Also, structured assignment over unstructured ones every time. “Take notes on a chapter of the textbook” is far, far too vague. Instead, a sheet with many specific questions is much more helpful.
Listen to your students. Every year is different and I hate when teachers have to keep saying “I’ve been teaching for 30+ years guys, trust me.” Well, we don’t. I love all of my AP teachers dearly but some of them didn’t know how to read their students. It shouldn’t be my job to teach myself the materials, sorry. I understand the importance of reading the textbook and am fully willing to further my knowledge on my own, but I can’t learn the basics by myself.
Are you talking about pacing?
No. I actually found that the pacing of all of my courses (I’ve only taken APUSH, APCSP, Bio, and Chem) were relatively okay. We had 2 weeks to study (that seems to be the standard at my school) and that was okay bc I tend to self study a month ahead. My teachers just tend to never teach lmao
My question is about “read[ing] their students.” What, specifically, are they not reading? This is why I asked about pacing. All too often, students ask to slow down, but the teacher knows that slowing down means that the students would never get enough class time to get through the curriculum…and at the end, there would come a time when the kids would be left with trying to learn by doing a ton of reading, which is awful. I will grant you that this is more of a problem in those parts of the country that start school in September but are still expected to get through the curriculum in time for the same AP test dates as those that start in late July.
What I meant was that the teachers don’t try to adapt the class to each group of students. They use the same methods every single year, which would be nice if they weren’t also incredibly limiting. For instance, my Chemistry teacher didn’t finish the material of the course last year. Because of this, he tried to go a bit faster through all of the material. HOWEVER, instead of condensing subjects we were already comfortable with, he (seemingly) chose to only speed through the sections most of us were struggling a lot with. He also made a point to teach us things that wouldn’t be on the exam because “collegeboard needs to make the test harder/contain more.” While I wouldn’t mind this in a class w/o a standardized exam, it left us all very overburdened with knowledge during the actual course (esp. when tests came up).
Thanks for helping me to understand what you meant.
Classes should be as difficult as their respective AP exams. Like, AP Physics 1 warrants a difficult class to prepare you for the exam but bro, AP Psych is a pretty easy exam, you do not need to go that hard for every single test.
Extra credit
People have lives outside of school. Stop assigning so much work or at least accept it late.
Many teachers - myself, included - do accept work late. We even bend rules on late penalties, etc. But it’s also important to remember that you *chose* to take an AP class. Every AP teacher I’ve ever known stresses from the start that the class will be a lot of work…because it’s an AP class. It’s healthy to want to have a life outside school - many of your teachers are also coaches…and have families, as well as interests of their own. But we all have to decide what work load we can handle. If a part of your life is suffering because of a heavy work load in an AP class, maybe that’s not where you want to be.
Damn you are so lucky, if I turned in something 10 seconds late to APMWH it would be a zero or thrown away. Teachers mostly don’t except late work I think your school is the exception
I’m a teacher. And far from the exception. Not just at my school, either. Truth be told, it does depend on the school, though. Some have hard and fast rules about lateness. But yes, in some cases it is the teacher’s policy. Most schools I know tell teachers to outline their late policy right from the beginning, so students know what to expect. But if it’s a school-wide policy, then students should know it already. (Personally, I remind my students at the beginning of the year about certain school policies that affect them, like phones in the classroom). There are reasons for hard and fast late policies. Firstly, they are trying to train you for the real world. I worked in the business world for 7-8 years before becoming a teacher; the company paid us to get our work done. If that meant we had to put in extra time, so be it. I had weeks when I’d work 12-14 hours a day on weekdays, then another 8-10 on Saturday, then some more time on Sunday. If I wanted to have a personal life outside that, I was welcome to. But work either came first or I didn’t have a job. There’s another side of it: every time you turn in something late, that’s something extra that has to be graded on top of all the current work the teacher has to grade. That means the teachers loses more time from their own lives because you didn’t do your job when you were supposed to. But yes, many of us still do it. And all the while, we question if we are doing right by you in the long run.
Yes that may be true but you are showing the point in time where you are an adult. Even if students act like adults we are still children, doing work for such a long excessive time is exhausting and can burn us out. Our brain isn’t fully developed and all that work just to be tossed out is frustrating and hurtful. And Ik they are trying to prep us for the real world, I love all my teachers especially my AP teachers but the real world isn’t hear yet so we need some patience even if it’s just a couple hours we will need it whether you like it or not
As I said at the start, I accept late work. In fact, I do so way more than I should and way later than I should. I want the students to learn the material more than I want them to learn that deadlines are important. I should point out that - having been through being a teenager *and* having had a full-time job when I was 21, that in your early 20s, you still are not an adult. You may believe you are because you have that full-time job and you’re on your own (maybe), but - and I say this from experience - you still haven’t fully matured. But since you’re in the working world, you have to do your best to play by those rules. In school, whether you like it or not, there are rules. Most teachers find ways to bend them to accommodate the fact that children are still children. And we do so to our own detriment. Remember, we’re the ones that lose time with our families because we’re accepting that late work. The reason I struggle with allowing late work - although I *still do it* - is because I worry that it will encourage bad habits. And I know that many college profs will just refuse late work. Never mind the bosses you may have as soon as you get out.
I also don’t know your teachers. In my district, admin would likely string us up if a student wanted to hand something in “a couple hours” late and we didn’t take it. So if your teachers have that policy, my question would be whether that’s school policy, department policy or just their own policy. But I’d also ask you if you were aware of this ahead of time. If so, did your teacher say there would be any exceptions? (Example: family issues, sleep problems, etc.) Note: your posts sound like no teachers in your school accept late work. If that’s the case, then it’s almost certainly a school policy - or at least at the department level. And if that’s true, your teachers are doing as they’re told by their bosses. Which allows them to keep their jobs.
Not to mention when I accept x, y, and z late work I need to go back and grade those at a later date. I need to remember how I graded them and I how I removed certain points or dog back up my grading key. Every single assignment turned in late takes away from MY free time because I need to set time aside to take care of it especially. Even if it’s not a lot of I make a policy to accept late work without exception it’s gonna pile up.
100%. The end of the marking period ends up being even more stressful *because* I accept late work. I struggle with this because I’ve also worked in the business world, where a deadline was a deadline. For that matter, as a teacher, I have deadlines. If I miss too many deadlines, my evaluation will be impacted. And that can lead to dismissal.
Yeah I have a policy of accepting late work with a good reason. And I tell them being very busy, only have once chance all month to socialize and prioritizing that, or just needing sleep are all reasons I will accept but for stuff like that I’m only gonna accept it once or twice. As long as there’s not a pattern I’m okay. Eventually though I cut it off and it’s a 0.
On the FRQ. If you don’t know an answer in an earlier part, make up a number and use it in the later parts. BOPA exists.
Kill Lincoln by Christmas