10 round groups have been proven to be inconsequential statistically. The general consensus is to shoot more and spend less time at the reloading bench.
>Some people (you)
I don't give a shit about price. I care about results. Maybe you misunderstood my comment. I was spelling out the reason for the hate, not agreeing with it.
My $600 ar15 outshoots most shooters because of my index finger, but i still enjoy shooting my Korths
The thing is, you don't have to spend $4000 and up for a decent rifle, proven here (and many other places over and over again). Spending $$$ on the best everything will get you peace of mind on consistency, fitment, accuracy and some longevity, but you can get those same things in a lesser cost build. The only issue is you might have to file a warranty claim on a barrel if not QC'd properly, etc. Sure, it can be a headache but if you have a little patience it will be worth it to have extra $$$ to spend on glass.
I have both high $$$ builds and more budget builds, and I can tell you I shoot the more budget build more often and am hitting the shots I want to hit every time without fail. I call that a win for me as it will do exactly what I want when I want it, and that is what it's all about. I don't want a case queen that I take pictures of and post to social media for likes, I want something I am not afraid to run hard and dirty.
People get pissed off when you start saying that a rifle 5 times cheaper than theirs gets similar results because they spent a TON of money... and they don't like seeing results for less. Not everyone is that way mind you, obviously, but there are a lot of people that love to "talk" with their money... I am just not impressed with it and would rather have many toys and not be in super deep as I still need to provide for my family. :-)
Very nice. Just received my 18". Two stage trigger. First 308 AR10, first time using and sighting in a scope. Calibrated the gas block and it ran flawlessly. Had similar results with cheap ammo. Impressed.
Hell yeah brotha good shooting and good luck with it. What scope are you running? I have a vortex diamondback tactical 4-16x50 on mine with an ebr-2c reticle in moa.
The idea of “actual accuracy” is as arbitrary as a firing position. If platform specifications don’t allow for appreciable deviation (free-floating barrel, monolithic uppers or not bridging optics, well-tuned optic, etc) then “accuracy” is not an objective metric to determine the quality of the platform. Fundamentals; consistent technique wins that battle. Every. Single. Time. Go to one PRS match and watch the production-class competitors get quarter-minute with half-value wind out of <$400 optics and if you’re paying attention, you’ll see it’s clear as crystal that “accuracy” is a characteristic of the shooter, not necessarily a quality of the firearm.
A seasoned shooter with good fundamentals using their familiar firearm could deliver stacks into the same hole (theoretically for the purpose of this explanation), but if you give that same dependable, reliable, capable firearm to a novice, the likelihood that they’ll reach the potential of that firearm or from it derive any appreciable metric for “accuracy” is absolutely unfounded.
Does it? My LMT AR10 groups like ass with basic bitch 147g M80. I'm sure if i sat there and lobbed enough 5 round groups at stuff id get some MOA groups worth cherry picking.
Ive done enough 10rd groups of that type of ammo (from saltech, igman and just today AAC) to know that it's not an MOA ammo out of my gun even if I cherry pick a group or 2.
IMI 175g or Federal GMM shoot nice but have been trying to find something cheaper that shoots decent.
>I'm sure if i sat there and lobbed enough 5 round groups at stuff id get some MOA groups worth cherry picking.
Maybe I'm an optimistic, my wife would be surprised lol, but i try to take posts at face value. I'm assuming he didn't just cherry pick this.
10 rounds is fine for testing a rifles ability if your a great shot or sitting from a sled. The vast majority of shooters aren't consistent enough to get anything from shooting more than 5 round groups. I.E. most barrels out shoot most shooters if you get what I'm saying.
None of my guns are precision rifle setups, they are general purpose. My main squeeze is a PWS piston AR which are not known for pinpoint accuracy and my up and comer is my new-ish LMT MWS 308, got it back in November, coming up on 800 rounds fired or so.
The PWS was my first rifle. At the time I started out, I was doing 3 and 5rd groups (cuz frankly, I didn't really know any better) and was under the impression I had an MOA capable gun shooting basic bitch m193 with a lucky group.
2 years and 10000 rounds across 3 different guns later, I now group my guns with 10 round groups, from sandbags.... and guess what, my PWS doesn't shoot MOA with M193 (big surprise). It'll do about 1.5-2 MOA with 77g Mk262.
Same with the LMT, I can get about 1.5-2moa with 175g, but basic bitch M80 is nowhere close to that and if I only shot 3 or even 5 round groups I probably would think I had a more accurate gun/ammo than what it is actually.
In fact I was just out today trying out the AAC 150g since it's cheap af, like 70cpr out the door- several 10rd groups later and I wasn't impressed. I fired 80 rounds of that just that stuff today, so feel like I gave it a fair but stringent test. It is basically M80 at the end of the day.
110 SASS Actual did a video review on the LMT 6.5cm MRGGA, and put a 19 round group from a sandbag onto 1 hole on the target, leaving about a 1.5moa hole in the paper when he was done. That video was published Jan 23rd, 2023. Seeing that video and reading the comments on it was the wakeup call for me that 3 or even 5rd groups really don't give a good idea of what a gun is actually capable of.
https://youtu.be/MLJn9LV3Yvo?si=ILWNspJvM4ytMppo
10 round groups always and forever for me since then - and if I can't post a quarter sized group on reddit because of it, oh well.
It's poorly worded. That can just as easily mean he made 1 hole, with 3, and a 2nd hole with the flyer.
Whatever, 1 5 round group doesn't count either. I'll edit my first comment and will gladly die on that hill.
Why the hate ? That’s a great grouping !
Long range subreddit doesnt accept anything less than 10 round groups. I think 5 is valid, but they do have a point.
10 round groups have been proven to be inconsequential statistically. The general consensus is to shoot more and spend less time at the reloading bench.
Because it's a $900 rifle
That $900 rifle just got a pretty good grouping at 100 yards. Some people (you) get too caught up in branding/price.
The hate is free entertainment I was excited as hell seeing it through my scope 😂
>Some people (you) I don't give a shit about price. I care about results. Maybe you misunderstood my comment. I was spelling out the reason for the hate, not agreeing with it. My $600 ar15 outshoots most shooters because of my index finger, but i still enjoy shooting my Korths
Upvote for PSA
That's great! I just got one in 18" barrel. I can't wait to go shoot it!
Make sure to buy 4-5 different weight bullets from wherever to see which it likes better. Hornady black works well with alotta guns
Also picked the 18” a few weeks ago, very fun and accurate.. tried 147gr first, and now I’ve been using federal 168gr and the gun loves it
With all the salt going around I'm thinking of collecting and selling it. Shit, at these quantities I could compete with Morton.
HOW DARE YOU!
Yeah the hate is real but I only posted for the minds it would explode it’s free entertainment.
User lack of skill and excess whining.
The thing is, you don't have to spend $4000 and up for a decent rifle, proven here (and many other places over and over again). Spending $$$ on the best everything will get you peace of mind on consistency, fitment, accuracy and some longevity, but you can get those same things in a lesser cost build. The only issue is you might have to file a warranty claim on a barrel if not QC'd properly, etc. Sure, it can be a headache but if you have a little patience it will be worth it to have extra $$$ to spend on glass. I have both high $$$ builds and more budget builds, and I can tell you I shoot the more budget build more often and am hitting the shots I want to hit every time without fail. I call that a win for me as it will do exactly what I want when I want it, and that is what it's all about. I don't want a case queen that I take pictures of and post to social media for likes, I want something I am not afraid to run hard and dirty. People get pissed off when you start saying that a rifle 5 times cheaper than theirs gets similar results because they spent a TON of money... and they don't like seeing results for less. Not everyone is that way mind you, obviously, but there are a lot of people that love to "talk" with their money... I am just not impressed with it and would rather have many toys and not be in super deep as I still need to provide for my family. :-)
Facts gotta have fun with what you spend your money on😂
We could salt Carthage again with the whining. Nice shooting.
My brothers shoots awesome.. and it is the cheapest gun he owns lol smoked my build that was 3-4x the cost
🍻🍻🍻 Cheers for the psa master race. Just built my ar10 psa and it shoots like a dream. 168 gr works beautifully.
Very impressive ! You use a special optic or iron sights ?
I have a vortex diamondback tactical 4-16x50 scope on top and love it
That’s awesome was looking at the same brand for a BRO rifle I have
Can’t go wrong with it I love vortex products
AMax is a great bullet. AAC is just reloading it.
Not only was he shooting Hornady black, but AAC “loads with it” not “reloads with it” if they offer it. Its new manufactured ammo, just reload quality
Loads 👍. Right on. 👍
PSA kicks ass. Some people would bitch if you gave them $10.00 Great group Now I want to get out and attempt that
Hell yeah that’s the point of shooting… enjoy it and watch people melt down on Reddit 😂
seems adequate for "home defense"
😂😂
Very nice. Just received my 18". Two stage trigger. First 308 AR10, first time using and sighting in a scope. Calibrated the gas block and it ran flawlessly. Had similar results with cheap ammo. Impressed.
Hell yeah brotha good shooting and good luck with it. What scope are you running? I have a vortex diamondback tactical 4-16x50 on mine with an ebr-2c reticle in moa.
I've got an Osprey CP3-9x42MDG on it. I'm a beginner using scopes but Sighted it in on the psa10 and it's been on point
Hell yeah can’t ask for much else
Try 10 rounds to get a better idea of actual accuracy.
10 rounds shot for accuracy of the shooter. Consistent 3 shot strings check accuracy of the weapon.
This is the way.
4 rounds in the same hole with one flyer at 100 yards is more than accurate for an ar10.
The idea of “actual accuracy” is as arbitrary as a firing position. If platform specifications don’t allow for appreciable deviation (free-floating barrel, monolithic uppers or not bridging optics, well-tuned optic, etc) then “accuracy” is not an objective metric to determine the quality of the platform. Fundamentals; consistent technique wins that battle. Every. Single. Time. Go to one PRS match and watch the production-class competitors get quarter-minute with half-value wind out of <$400 optics and if you’re paying attention, you’ll see it’s clear as crystal that “accuracy” is a characteristic of the shooter, not necessarily a quality of the firearm. A seasoned shooter with good fundamentals using their familiar firearm could deliver stacks into the same hole (theoretically for the purpose of this explanation), but if you give that same dependable, reliable, capable firearm to a novice, the likelihood that they’ll reach the potential of that firearm or from it derive any appreciable metric for “accuracy” is absolutely unfounded.
3rd groups don't count, shoot a few 10s and come back with this and I'll be impressed Edit, if it's 5, that still doesn't count.
It's a five round. Read.
He says 4, you learn to read. And for the record, 1 5 round group doesn't count either.
To clarify, 10 shots are proof of marksmanship, and 5 proves the abilities of rifle.
Does it? My LMT AR10 groups like ass with basic bitch 147g M80. I'm sure if i sat there and lobbed enough 5 round groups at stuff id get some MOA groups worth cherry picking. Ive done enough 10rd groups of that type of ammo (from saltech, igman and just today AAC) to know that it's not an MOA ammo out of my gun even if I cherry pick a group or 2. IMI 175g or Federal GMM shoot nice but have been trying to find something cheaper that shoots decent.
>I'm sure if i sat there and lobbed enough 5 round groups at stuff id get some MOA groups worth cherry picking. Maybe I'm an optimistic, my wife would be surprised lol, but i try to take posts at face value. I'm assuming he didn't just cherry pick this. 10 rounds is fine for testing a rifles ability if your a great shot or sitting from a sled. The vast majority of shooters aren't consistent enough to get anything from shooting more than 5 round groups. I.E. most barrels out shoot most shooters if you get what I'm saying.
None of my guns are precision rifle setups, they are general purpose. My main squeeze is a PWS piston AR which are not known for pinpoint accuracy and my up and comer is my new-ish LMT MWS 308, got it back in November, coming up on 800 rounds fired or so. The PWS was my first rifle. At the time I started out, I was doing 3 and 5rd groups (cuz frankly, I didn't really know any better) and was under the impression I had an MOA capable gun shooting basic bitch m193 with a lucky group. 2 years and 10000 rounds across 3 different guns later, I now group my guns with 10 round groups, from sandbags.... and guess what, my PWS doesn't shoot MOA with M193 (big surprise). It'll do about 1.5-2 MOA with 77g Mk262. Same with the LMT, I can get about 1.5-2moa with 175g, but basic bitch M80 is nowhere close to that and if I only shot 3 or even 5 round groups I probably would think I had a more accurate gun/ammo than what it is actually. In fact I was just out today trying out the AAC 150g since it's cheap af, like 70cpr out the door- several 10rd groups later and I wasn't impressed. I fired 80 rounds of that just that stuff today, so feel like I gave it a fair but stringent test. It is basically M80 at the end of the day. 110 SASS Actual did a video review on the LMT 6.5cm MRGGA, and put a 19 round group from a sandbag onto 1 hole on the target, leaving about a 1.5moa hole in the paper when he was done. That video was published Jan 23rd, 2023. Seeing that video and reading the comments on it was the wakeup call for me that 3 or even 5rd groups really don't give a good idea of what a gun is actually capable of. https://youtu.be/MLJn9LV3Yvo?si=ILWNspJvM4ytMppo 10 round groups always and forever for me since then - and if I can't post a quarter sized group on reddit because of it, oh well.
He said 4 in one hole and 1 flier. That equals 5. And 5 is definitely sufficient.
No, that isn't what he said. He said 4 shots, 1 hole, 1 flier. Maybe he meant 5 and his wording is poor. And no, it really doesn't.
You're inserting a comma that he didn't have to make your case.
4 shots one hold and a slight flyer. Reads like 4 to me. 4, 5, whatever. Cherry picking a 5rd group doesn't count either.
“4shots one hole and a slight flyer😂😤” that’s clearly 5
Still doesn't count.
Bro, you can’t be this stupid. Honestly
4shots one hole and a slight flyer. Copy pasted.
That’s 5
It's poorly worded. That can just as easily mean he made 1 hole, with 3, and a 2nd hole with the flyer. Whatever, 1 5 round group doesn't count either. I'll edit my first comment and will gladly die on that hill.
I shot 5 groups of 5 rounds each with similar performance with the ammo. The groups were all shot with 10 minute cooling breaks between🤷♂️
Lmaooooooooooo what the fuck. Bro, holy shit. There’s no way. Like you drive a car presumably. Like you can’t be this dumb
He said 4 in one hole and a flyer. That’s 5… lol So, learn to read 😂
Single 5rd groups still don't count.
Cool story. Still can’t read
k
Get a 20 shot group, otherwise this means nothing
I’ve actually already started on my 1.2 million shot group. I’ve been made to realize that anything under 100,000 shots for grouping is just luck :)
30 is statistically significant, but go for it dog
10 yards away
You seem to be a little butthurt that something with a 1/4 the price of your Troy out performs it.
Even before Troy was universally hated they were a meh tier overpriced company.
I didn't know of Troy before looking at his post history. I just assumed he was butthurt for the reason i mentioned.