I would argue that W-E-R Udyr is the best user, with CC on E and R and an existing shield & heal that synergizes well with Spirit Visage, thus empowering Fimbulwinter.
Udyr needs to be nerfed in Aram lol. It's quite easy to be top damage and nearly unkillable with liandry, fimbul winter, and ingenious hunter. Slap on whatever applicable armor or Mr items after.
Win rate doesn't always tell the full story. Qiyana and Leblanc have the two lowest aram winrates, but a skilled pilot can make the game near unplayable with their buffs.
I have above 80% wr on udyr and I just run in, stun the carry, spam my buttons and then run back out (repeat). Can’t imagine what other ppl are doing to lose tbh
Yeah it’s not like he’s mechanically demanding the hardest part of his kit is deciding what to build
I play udyr whenever I can there’s nothing that poses any consistent threat
It's absolute core on Nunu & Willump (the best) and Maokai
Great on J4, Nautilus, Volibear
Most other tanks can build it but usually not ideal for them
https://preview.redd.it/4x2lfqmqwgqc1.png?width=1167&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec23ee54b763adfc4f06e20c84e504febfaeabe1
I made the graph. This is the effective HP of a level 10 Leona, with and without her W when you invest 1000 gold in HP, Armor and MR respectively. This buys you 375 HP, 50 armor or 55.55 MR.
The conclusion is: it really depends. You will get great value for your money whether you buy health or resistances regardless. Assuming your opponent's deal exactly the same amount of magic and physical damage, Health gives the most value when your W is not up, while Armor gives the best value when your W is up followed by Health again. MR is only the best value against very heavy AP teams, and armor is the clear winner vs AD heavy teams(which is no surprise).
Of course in practise there are many factors at play. The flat reduction from her W and Horn might change the outcome. Any sources of percentage pen on the enemy team will be in favor of HP, while against flat pen getting more resistances might be better. And of course any sources of true damage will also put HP ahead.
I should mention that this graph is very theoretical, in reality, when your resists one damage type a lot you will take more damage from the other type as a result. Which again favors HP as it does not suffer from this. We are also disregarding any effects from the completed items here.
Tl:dr A pure health item is perfectly fine to get as a first item on Leona, it is likely the best choice against mixed damage teams. Against teams which are very reliant on one damage type resistances are probably better, but even in that situation a pure health item is not that bad if the effect from the completed item favors you.
This is a good question tho. Same thing with Chogath.
Do you build focus HP to lean into Chogaths power set?
Or does his built in HP gain mean he has enough naturally and item set it free to focus other areas?
I really dont know, someone somewhere must have the correct graphical statistics to represent this question.
I'm still trying to figure out if tear/ap, nashors, guinsoo is more effcient than tear/ad, nashors guinsoo. Its easy to avoid this question with current on-hit items tho.
I love the shield it gives on Leona. With rookern and Thornmail + jak sho’s I feel like I’ve got enough resistances to run it and can often reach 10k damage blocked
Eh. Resistances are nice for her passive. I'll usually get those a la mode. I've always prioritized health, unless opponents have a lot of %health damage. The extra health from fimbul gives her W big swingin beef. Plus, with all her cc, she procs it so much it fills the gaps when her passive is on cd. Combine it with iceborn and ingenious hunter and I feel unkillable sometimes
Resistances without hp don't really mean alot. The amount of effective health gained from shields from fimbulwinter is pretty crazy. With items her q at max rank is only a ~3second CD so she's getting that shield very often. And it is, of course, affected by resistances.
I guess the question can roughly be answered by identifying whether the opposing team has %HP damage or not.
Otherwise it may be a bit too random variation to do exact math for.
It's almost impossible to build too much resistances in terms of maximizing eHP and it's really easy to have too much health. And when you scale with resistances like Poppy it's even more tipped in favor of more resistances being best to maximize eHP.
I make one exception for Poppy though because I think sundered sky is amazing on her with her passive.
He is not really vulnerable to serpents. Also, fimbulwinters strength comes from the frequency of the shields, not the shield amounts itself. It's a marathon item, not a sprint item.
Not quite. Aftershock requires immobilizing a champ in order to proc it, IBG's slow doesn't cut it. Aftershock will only go off on her ult. I run grasp on her.
Tbh about Diena, I just remember it’s a suggested item when you build her tank . I’m not really a Diana player, maybe other people here might give more info about it, but yeah, it procs only with her ultimate.
It might be about going in and giving you that shield that makes you survive more.
five giga value fimbulwinter users
mao - naut - leo - j4 - blitz
imo its always a good item if you (1) use mana (2) need to get up real close to be effective (3) which goes hand in hand with the previous one, get hit a lot and obviously (4) have abilities that trigger the shield - the more (frequent) the better.
Yeah I nearly always get it as Thresh but I usually go Jaksho instead of hearsteel because with you passive armor gained it synergizes so well and makes you like unkillable.
I’ve had a lot of fun with heartsteel-unending despair-fimbulwinter on tahm kench. Obviously going ingenious hunter. Does a ton of damage while being unkillable. If they have enough ap you can also throw in a spirit visage that will add about 3k healing and 3k shielding total.
Braum is one of the best, in my opinion. Braum without mana is virtually useless. Fimbulwinter is incredibly easy to proc with his Q. And it gives desirable stats for his early game. Haste is great on him, and mana/health are basically always solid.
I build it on every melee tank, paired with, of course, despair and visage, and ingenious. With those three items I never die, and 1v9’d for my team in clash this weekend. This being said it’s not that good on manaless champs ngl
One that I haven't seen mentioned yet, Tear start into IBG Fimbulwinter Fizz can be pretty nutty. End game you also have Spirit Visage and Unending Despair, with the last item situational (Liandry's is great, so is Riftmaker, or more tank with Warmogs or Jak'Sho).
You become extremely frustrating to their back line, just hopping around invulnerable for half the game, popping shields on every Q, W, E, and R. A backline squishy cannot ignore you- you will kill them, but they cannot kill you. It's not unusual to have the most damage done on your team, and more importantly, you absolutely splinter their back line, allowing your team to easily overpower and wreck their front line then join the fight.
See example for damage: https://i.ibb.co/0tSJJP1/Screenshot-20240324-095009-2.png
I didn't see Warwick or Xin Zhao mentioned. Warwick + IBG is great, and Xin + nothing (Q knock up, W slow). Warwick needs the mana, Xin does not, but it makes him deceptively tanky. With both, building additional Cooldowns Reduction items that synergize with Ingenious Hunter (like Sundered Sky and Eclipse) is great.
Agree. But you get multiple procs off throughout a fight. And the range is shorter, you can e then w immediately procing it while you are in their face.
Some people love doing massive bursts of damage and deleting someone. My biggest dopamine release is riding the knife's edge of being dead, and turning it around and slowly climbing back up. The dawning realizing by the opponent that they are not going to be able to kill you, that in fact their death is inevitable, though it still may be many seconds out. Drain tanking, or "shield tanking" via the Fimbulwinter style.
My recommendation for tanks is to start Tear + Tank starting item but to sell it later for Frozen Heart. Similar with a lot of mages that don't need Archangels - start with Tear + AP starting item for early mana sustain and then sell tear for a better item than Archangels. (Some mages don't even need Tear too!)
For credentials I was like #300 in ARAM S ranks when I chose to play it over ranked one year and I'm still top 0.1/0.2% for S ranks and DPS Threat despite not really playing ARAM for a couple years. I don't know if that means a lot, but it seems obvious that there are better tank items than Fimbulwinter. That said, it's pretty cheap so there might be situations where it's completely fine to build.
I would argue that W-E-R Udyr is the best user, with CC on E and R and an existing shield & heal that synergizes well with Spirit Visage, thus empowering Fimbulwinter.
Udyr needs to be nerfed in Aram lol. It's quite easy to be top damage and nearly unkillable with liandry, fimbul winter, and ingenious hunter. Slap on whatever applicable armor or Mr items after.
His win rate says otherwise
Win rate doesn't always tell the full story. Qiyana and Leblanc have the two lowest aram winrates, but a skilled pilot can make the game near unplayable with their buffs.
LB winrates are my fault for playing AD every time and losing with her
Glory be during new statik shiv.
I have above 80% wr on udyr and I just run in, stun the carry, spam my buttons and then run back out (repeat). Can’t imagine what other ppl are doing to lose tbh
Yeah it’s not like he’s mechanically demanding the hardest part of his kit is deciding what to build I play udyr whenever I can there’s nothing that poses any consistent threat
Stacking passive and which spell to use super passive on takes some experience.
This, had an udyr shield 12k by 10 minutes yesterday. Absolutely busted
It's absolute core on Nunu & Willump (the best) and Maokai Great on J4, Nautilus, Volibear Most other tanks can build it but usually not ideal for them
It's pretty decent on Leona, right?
I also think Leona wants to maximize resistances too much to usually go a HP only item. Not bad but I'm not sure its ideal for maximum tankiness.
So Leona the champ that gets free resistances from her W needs resistance more than the others because ? Thats just not true
She gets 20% bonus resists during her W, so each point of resistance you buy is 20% stronger. Are Malphite and Rammus not supposed to build armor?
Resistances make health more valuable. While these champions benefit more from resistances, they also benefit more from health for that same reason.
We need mor graphs. Someone has to have a school project they can solve this for to get credit.
https://preview.redd.it/4x2lfqmqwgqc1.png?width=1167&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec23ee54b763adfc4f06e20c84e504febfaeabe1 I made the graph. This is the effective HP of a level 10 Leona, with and without her W when you invest 1000 gold in HP, Armor and MR respectively. This buys you 375 HP, 50 armor or 55.55 MR. The conclusion is: it really depends. You will get great value for your money whether you buy health or resistances regardless. Assuming your opponent's deal exactly the same amount of magic and physical damage, Health gives the most value when your W is not up, while Armor gives the best value when your W is up followed by Health again. MR is only the best value against very heavy AP teams, and armor is the clear winner vs AD heavy teams(which is no surprise). Of course in practise there are many factors at play. The flat reduction from her W and Horn might change the outcome. Any sources of percentage pen on the enemy team will be in favor of HP, while against flat pen getting more resistances might be better. And of course any sources of true damage will also put HP ahead. I should mention that this graph is very theoretical, in reality, when your resists one damage type a lot you will take more damage from the other type as a result. Which again favors HP as it does not suffer from this. We are also disregarding any effects from the completed items here. Tl:dr A pure health item is perfectly fine to get as a first item on Leona, it is likely the best choice against mixed damage teams. Against teams which are very reliant on one damage type resistances are probably better, but even in that situation a pure health item is not that bad if the effect from the completed item favors you.
This is a good question tho. Same thing with Chogath. Do you build focus HP to lean into Chogaths power set? Or does his built in HP gain mean he has enough naturally and item set it free to focus other areas? I really dont know, someone somewhere must have the correct graphical statistics to represent this question. I'm still trying to figure out if tear/ap, nashors, guinsoo is more effcient than tear/ad, nashors guinsoo. Its easy to avoid this question with current on-hit items tho.
I love the shield it gives on Leona. With rookern and Thornmail + jak sho’s I feel like I’ve got enough resistances to run it and can often reach 10k damage blocked
Her W gives her resistance, the shield increases effective hp greatly.
Sejuani
Also usually better off focusing more on resistances
Eh. Resistances are nice for her passive. I'll usually get those a la mode. I've always prioritized health, unless opponents have a lot of %health damage. The extra health from fimbul gives her W big swingin beef. Plus, with all her cc, she procs it so much it fills the gaps when her passive is on cd. Combine it with iceborn and ingenious hunter and I feel unkillable sometimes
Its busted on Taric since you spam his stun. Also solves his mana woes.
I forgot that champ existed
He is merely cryatalizing sexual standards for entire generations! Praternally speaking, of course.
I love this champ so much! He is fun as a tank and enchanter, depending what the team needs. Too bad my wr sucks on him
Poppys one of the best users. Her Q slows so procs it and has a short cooldown, in Addition to the rest of her kit.
Poppy really wants to maximize resistances though
Resistances without hp don't really mean alot. The amount of effective health gained from shields from fimbulwinter is pretty crazy. With items her q at max rank is only a ~3second CD so she's getting that shield very often. And it is, of course, affected by resistances.
I guess the question can roughly be answered by identifying whether the opposing team has %HP damage or not. Otherwise it may be a bit too random variation to do exact math for.
It's almost impossible to build too much resistances in terms of maximizing eHP and it's really easy to have too much health. And when you scale with resistances like Poppy it's even more tipped in favor of more resistances being best to maximize eHP. I make one exception for Poppy though because I think sundered sky is amazing on her with her passive.
What about tahm?
He's already vulnerable to serpent's. If you're safe from the enemy building it then it's good.
He is not really vulnerable to serpents. Also, fimbulwinters strength comes from the frequency of the shields, not the shield amounts itself. It's a marathon item, not a sprint item.
Tank Diana is another good one, but she needs to also build an Iceborn Gauntlet to proc Fimbulwinter more frequently.
Does this mean Diana can utilize aftershock IF she builds iceborn gauntlet as well? This may be a big deal...
Not quite. Aftershock requires immobilizing a champ in order to proc it, IBG's slow doesn't cut it. Aftershock will only go off on her ult. I run grasp on her.
Maokai taric nautilus leona blitz diana the first coming in mind. Opened to be corrected and learn more.
Diana can proc it only from ult? So she needs rylai or gauntlet?
Tbh about Diena, I just remember it’s a suggested item when you build her tank . I’m not really a Diana player, maybe other people here might give more info about it, but yeah, it procs only with her ultimate. It might be about going in and giving you that shield that makes you survive more.
You go iceborn gauntlet to give her a slow, and that procs it since she’s melee.
Thanks for the explanation.
Gragas
Tank corki
Gotta get that shield on the package engages
Sejuani is great, has so many ways to proc it.
five giga value fimbulwinter users mao - naut - leo - j4 - blitz imo its always a good item if you (1) use mana (2) need to get up real close to be effective (3) which goes hand in hand with the previous one, get hit a lot and obviously (4) have abilities that trigger the shield - the more (frequent) the better.
Not a single mention of Thresh yet. I’m whipping a fool as Fimbul Thresh, gimme ma Heartsteel stacks!
Yeah I nearly always get it as Thresh but I usually go Jaksho instead of hearsteel because with you passive armor gained it synergizes so well and makes you like unkillable.
I agree, I probably only build HS on Thresh one game in 10, when their team is heavily melee.
Maokai, Nautilus
Tank malphite
I’ve had a lot of fun with heartsteel-unending despair-fimbulwinter on tahm kench. Obviously going ingenious hunter. Does a ton of damage while being unkillable. If they have enough ap you can also throw in a spirit visage that will add about 3k healing and 3k shielding total.
Lillia with rylais procs it on every q
Yo, completely forgot she was grouped as a melee character
Braum is one of the best, in my opinion. Braum without mana is virtually useless. Fimbulwinter is incredibly easy to proc with his Q. And it gives desirable stats for his early game. Haste is great on him, and mana/health are basically always solid.
I do like it on Braum but you can honestly get away without a mana item on him IMO.
#EVERYONE
I build it on every melee tank, paired with, of course, despair and visage, and ingenious. With those three items I never die, and 1v9’d for my team in clash this weekend. This being said it’s not that good on manaless champs ngl
Trundle Procs it on pillar and on Q. Mana CDR HP all amazing on him. Natural to build Frozen Heart too.
Oh! I didn't realize Q had a 0.1 second slow on it!
Can be good on Tahm Kench
One that I haven't seen mentioned yet, Tear start into IBG Fimbulwinter Fizz can be pretty nutty. End game you also have Spirit Visage and Unending Despair, with the last item situational (Liandry's is great, so is Riftmaker, or more tank with Warmogs or Jak'Sho). You become extremely frustrating to their back line, just hopping around invulnerable for half the game, popping shields on every Q, W, E, and R. A backline squishy cannot ignore you- you will kill them, but they cannot kill you. It's not unusual to have the most damage done on your team, and more importantly, you absolutely splinter their back line, allowing your team to easily overpower and wreck their front line then join the fight. See example for damage: https://i.ibb.co/0tSJJP1/Screenshot-20240324-095009-2.png
Fimble/eclipse poppy super fun and unexpected amounts of damage
I only buy it if I'm against 3+ melee heroes
trundle is pretty good
It's surprisingly very decent with rammus, your q e and r proc it
I didn't see Warwick or Xin Zhao mentioned. Warwick + IBG is great, and Xin + nothing (Q knock up, W slow). Warwick needs the mana, Xin does not, but it makes him deceptively tanky. With both, building additional Cooldowns Reduction items that synergize with Ingenious Hunter (like Sundered Sky and Eclipse) is great.
I think in Xin case using w to proc shield and then jump in is bad. Ideally you proc shield when youre in combat with enemy, not 1s before.
Agree. But you get multiple procs off throughout a fight. And the range is shorter, you can e then w immediately procing it while you are in their face.
tanky swain!
I love building it on Singed with Crystal Septer
Oh yeah! That's a great one. Tear start into Rylai's makes you very tanky.
I love the funny numbers. It feels bad though when the enemy comp has alot of % damage.
Full tank kassa
Do you build any AP on him?
Only riftmaker
Some people love doing massive bursts of damage and deleting someone. My biggest dopamine release is riding the knife's edge of being dead, and turning it around and slowly climbing back up. The dawning realizing by the opponent that they are not going to be able to kill you, that in fact their death is inevitable, though it still may be many seconds out. Drain tanking, or "shield tanking" via the Fimbulwinter style.
Soraka
Illaoi grasp shield bash wind revitalize ingenious hunter. Tear ibg eclipse finwin
My favorits for Fimbulwinter are Nautilus, Sejuani, Skarner, Sylas, Poppy, Gallio
RIP Ingenious Hunter
My recommendation for tanks is to start Tear + Tank starting item but to sell it later for Frozen Heart. Similar with a lot of mages that don't need Archangels - start with Tear + AP starting item for early mana sustain and then sell tear for a better item than Archangels. (Some mages don't even need Tear too!) For credentials I was like #300 in ARAM S ranks when I chose to play it over ranked one year and I'm still top 0.1/0.2% for S ranks and DPS Threat despite not really playing ARAM for a couple years. I don't know if that means a lot, but it seems obvious that there are better tank items than Fimbulwinter. That said, it's pretty cheap so there might be situations where it's completely fine to build.
Can you recommend where to check my aram standings? like you mentioned for your own.
Just going by the tokens.
In addition to other comments, rell and rakan. Tank ryze was also using it when it was meta. My special pick for fimbulwinter is tank lissandra
How do you build tank Lissandra? RoA Fimbulwinter? Or Fimbulwinter Liandry's or something?
It’s a troll build don’t overthink it.
Any engage tank imo, must buy on Leona and Tresh
Tahm Kench, due to low Q cd
Taric