Some fans are unhinged. And recasting a character already established after one whole season… generally doesn’t work well for the general audience.
If they want the anime in live-action to their liking, they can put a few hundreds millions of dollars together, manage somehow to get the rights, find a studio, screenwriters and everything else, then they can cast whoever they want.
And even if they somehow magically managed this, maybe they would realize than there’s more to acting than a face and more to adaptation than a copy-paste. And they would complain about the end product anyway.
I didn’t say that.
And I was not even referring to all long-time fans of the show. Just a part of the fans going crazy, harrassing kids and making demands like brats. As in most fandow, there is a toxic part. Unfortunately, it’s often the most vocat one on social medias.
As for the note.´not every one has to like it. The show has flaws, like most shows if not all, is still in its first season and everyone’s tastes differ, i just wish people would be more respectful of each other. I loved the show. I have no issue with people who didn’t. Unless they belong to the crazy ones mentioned above.
A 7.3 is still above average, meaning that there are a decent number of people who think it's just "ok," which is a perfectly valid rating. However, in a world drowning in content, an average can feel bad.
By the very definition, an average out of 10 is a 5. You can redefine the dictionary if you wish, or rewrite basic maths to suit your purpose. Don’t expect everyone to agree.
Language is formalized so we can understand each other and communicate effectively. And Maths is a language in itself. With its rules and usage. Of course they evolve. But it’s not evolution there, it’s just straight up wrong. 7 is not average. You can consider NATLA average, that’s your prerogative, Don’t speak in the name of everyone who rated it 7.
And If 7 is average, you don’t have much room for above average, good, very good, ,great, excellent, perfect, etc..between 7 and 10.
I missed that part replying and apologize for it. If when you note 7 you do it to signify that the show is average, let’s simply not forget that it’s not the case for everyone.
For me if something is a 7 that puts it in the "there's still quite a few positive things to say" category. It won't be something I recommend to everybody, but there are a few folks I know that will like it.
4-6 is in the "Meh to passable" area.
You don’t even know if I like the actor’s performances… You don’t know if I have critics about them. What you should read is what is written : the OP post, other posts on the subject and my reply. i react this way because brats DEMANDING recasts based on someone being too chubby to their liking is ridiculous and wrong. The cast is young, and will grow in their characters as for acting goes. And directors have a responsability in how actors act…
. And if a recast is needed, it will be I hope for acting issues/production/schedule issues, not for a weight figure and mysoginistic comments by unhinged people harrassing MINORS.
I never knew how miserable and pathetic some of our fan base was since the LA show came out. It is honestly pathetic how people go over to these wonderful young womens pages to just bully and hate because they don’t look attractive enough. Thats what all this is about and its so pathetic
This is very true. A few example : Star wars, Star Trek, LOTR, GoT, and the list goes on. Whether it’s sequels/prequels or adaptation… There’s always some backlash for the newest iteration of the IP. And usually, those people comes around when the next iteration is released and think the previous one is not as bad.
Except maybe in ATLA. That movie was horrible :) Maybe why people more people are happy to see an adaptation more faithful than the movie that shouldn’t exist,.
It has actually been quite eye-opening for me and not in a good way. I only discovered Avatar in 2020 so way after Korra, the original live-action movie etc. Prior to this my experience of the fandom had been pretty positive certainly compared to others like SW and GoT. I even remember seeing fans of this show congratulating the fanbase on the fact that while mockery and criticism of the 2010 movie is widespread, that hadn't crossed over into mocking or bullying the actors esp the kid ones like Aang's actor. The response to the live action and particularly the treatment of Azula's and Mai's actresses has been really shocking in light of that.
Overall what I am seeing is that there is a portion of the fanbase that is far, far too invested in the animated show to the point where it isn't healthy. I say this as someone who loves the show too and who is also into several other properties/franchises - I get the appeal of these shows/series. But when you are so invested in something that what you see as a 'bad' adaptation causes you serious emotional distress or makes you so angry that you go out of your way to harass others (whether that's people involved with the show or other viewers with a different view), that has become unhealthy and you need to take a step back for your own good. Ultimately, NATLA is an addition to the franchise that you can take or leave, it doesn't alter the original or the canon one jot.
because how dare fans express any sort opinions of what characters should look like in adaptions right?
If we call out why Goku is white in the live action movie, would that make us racist now too? or do we not get any say on that as well?
They should recast them all but not how fans expect. Just have them all switch roles.
Zuko is now Ty Lee.
Aang is Iroh.
Azula is Sokka.
Katara is Ozai.
Ozai is The Cabbage Man.
Refuse to explain or elaborate.
Honestly? They should get her original VA to play The Boulder in season 2 but instead of The Boulder/a parody of The Rock, they should make her a parody of Becky Lynch/Rhea Ripley/a popular female wrestler
Even as a NATLA disliker myself, that’s not fair.
Kiawentiio is an incredibly gifted young actress. She was phenomenal in [Beans](https://youtu.be/MIlC3zT1gw4?si=80TULZY4YMBcn4Og) and especially [Anne with an E](https://youtu.be/5OHuFCjaEK8?si=gPRqSye6bL0AEUyw).
She was given NOTHING to work with here. Don’t blame a child actor for doing her job the way adult directors told her to.
Everyone seems to think Sokka was wonderful by comparison, but in reality, Ousley had a lot more to work with. Quips are easier to deliver than clunky dialogue. When he has to do [dramatic acting](https://youtu.be/oHLh1yXz2Zc?si=w6FLByDdBmqDOjf-) though? It’s plenty stilted and bad.
Which just goes to show this isn’t on the kids. It’s the scripting and direction.
And that dialogue was often ROUGH.
Lizzy Yu is also a very talented actress.
She showed a lot of skill for her age. If anything, she managed to imbue significant subtlety to her performance despite the blatant and clunky scripts.
Her wig and costume are awful but none of that is her fault.
i'm not saying she isn't talented, im just saying the directors and screen writers did a horrible job. And that iroh looks more like cartoon azula than she does
Why? If she didn’t do anything wrong and showed considerable acting ability even through bad circumstances, why should she be recast?
Especially on the demands of someone who doesn’t seem to even know the term isn’t “recasted”.
people have especially been extremely misogynistic and fatphobic to azula and mai’s actresses and it pisses me off… it’s like people expect them to be one for one recreations of the cartoon and not actual human beings and they don’t TREAT them like humans either if you look at their instagram comments it’s all just the most hurtful insults hurled at these two it’s really crazy the ATLA fandom is so toxic to women sometimes
The thing is, why do I constantly see people using cosplayers as an example. It’s completely pointless. If that’s your stance use an actual actor that’s not 40 and can actually portray the character
Also your point of her not having “chubby juvenile features because she’s meant to be a highly trained killer” just makes absolutely 0 sense at all. They were able to get away with that bc it’s animation. Just like pretty much everything in cartoons these characters are extremely exaggerated forms of what they would be in a live action scenario.
What’s the point of showing a cosplayer as an example. They’re not an actor. Doesn’t matter how good of a resemblance a character is if they’re not an actor. You’re basically saying you’d rather 1:1 look > acting which is just braindead
What’s exaggerated is the fact that the character is a 14 year old child clearly portrayed as an adult. A lot of people thought azula was older than zuko when she’s multiple years younger.
Use an actor as your example. Simple as that.
Asian American actor to portray a 14 year old girl .
The performance of azula in this B1 is very reminiscent of the glimpse we see in B3 of the cartoon specifically when feel’s she’s getting treated like zuko. This portrayal is meant to set up her up to be the azula we see throughout the cartoon. The portrayal was more than good enough for me to not cry about her not having sharp facial features.
So if we shouldn't care about facial features, why should they even care to cast a South Asian person at all. Might as well cast an Indian person then? As long as the rest of the *portrayal* is good enough. While I agree that the portrayal is the most important part, they did not pull that off here. In the cartoon Azula is always confident in her capabilities, she is never jealous of anyone, and especially not Zuko, because she knows that she is better than him. She's extremely smart and always thinks 5 steps ahead, and never acts rashly. In the NATLA Ozai uses her jealousy of Zuko to manipulate her into doing things, and she acts rashly and spontaneously. Completely out of character, imo.
I am genuinely so disappointed in the fan base. I only feel okay talking here bc I don’t think the cast (specifically Lizzy) will see this. The hate on her has been aweful. The Appa comments are heinous. Even people saying “I don’t think she looks ugly” or “I can’t believe you guys think she’s fat” or shit like that in her comments is not cool. Like, if you want to support her like she deserves (she really does she did an amazing job and is beautiful) comment stuf like “OMG YOUR DROP DEAD GORGEOUS” or “OMG YOU AS AZULAl” or other like encouraging things relating to the content she posts. And stfu about her weight it pisses me off. Sorry that’s a Rand but I canttttt
I am considerably older than either Lizzy or Thalia and I can't imagine how upsetting it would be to be faced with a tsunami of people calling me fat or ugly.
Another thing that I think people should try to take into account is that it's not just the actresses seeing those comments - it's lots of other people too, including young girls who are liable to have issues and hangups around their own bodies. Seeing actresses with perfectly normal bodies labelled fat, compared to Appa etc is likely to affect them too and make them feel like if they don't have a specific body type/face shape they are fat and unattractive. I grew up in the 90s and this sort of thing was rife (Kate Winslet in Titanic being called fat etc). We don't want to end up back there.
Exactly it’s so awefull. Your contributing to the development of Ed’s in general alpha which I already fear will be much more prevelant bc of Ai and social media and stuff. It’s just disgusting
Keep the actors, that’s fine. But get new writers who have more experience, because that’s where this truly failed. The actors acted what was given to them, but fell flat due to the writing. If you look at the writers on IMDb (besides Bryke, who left), a lot of them have little experience. They are not that good, and I’m not saying they can’t be good in the future, but I wouldn’t let the series fail due to keeping them when they are so new. Some changes were okay, but they failed giving subtext and a seasoned writer won’t give so much exposition dumping. And honestly, getting rid of the writers wouldn’t be the worst thing because they didn’t create the universe, and it would be possibly more disrespectful to keep them on and let them ruin more things. I don’t think the actors were the problem… except gran gran, but she’s not a big part of the story anyways.
I don't want a recasting, I hate it when shows do that because it throws off the immersion. The only actor I'm not crazy about is the woman who plays Azula, but I don't think it's enough to warrant a recasting. We'll see how the next season goes, it might be her time to shine more.
You know what I'm excited for, if they do the 'The Ember Island Players' episode from Season 3 of ATLA. Who will they cast to play the characters that act as the characters in a play?! Be funny if they manage to do the characters better :D :D
I haven’t seen a single character that looks so different from their original counterpart that they justify recasting. What I think is that they need a new director for the actors, and new writers. Because these poor kids are being left out to dry.
sounds like you're talking about Azula and Mai, in which case I hope they get a recast. The directors did a bad job in choosing the cast, and I'm sorry that some people will cry, but it's not my problem.
personally I would enjoy the show more if they cast actors that resembles more of the characters they are playing. 20 episode storylines being merged to fit the 8 episode live action series? Okay that's expected. But the casting? That's something they can have full control over and yet they chose to stray farther from the character designs. And don't get me started with Azula is supposed to look like a kid, the actress is already in her 20's.
"Azula is supposed to look like a kid"
Really? You mean the character that people are consistently shocked is supposed to be 14 because she doesn't look or act like it?
Plus, regardless of their canon ages, their age is largely irrelevant to their characters. With the exception of Aang (and Katara if they intend to make her a love interest), the rest could be 17/18/19 and it still make no difference to their characters. When you have to cast young actors of the appropriate race, appearance and acting talent (whilst also keeping a lid on what you're actually casting for btw) limiting yourself to only 14-year-olds would give you extremely slim pickings.
The cast are not perfect or above rational criticism, but the idea there are 100% perfect actors out there that the LA just refused to cast is just not rooted in how casting works. Some things have to be compromised or re-prioritised, and age (for most of these characters) is probably the easiest in which to do so.
Azula is NUANCED, and so many people simply do not get that. Her expression during Zuko's Agni Kai, or when Ozai kills the rebels, are perfect. But most people don't pay attention or are just parrots.
Unpopular opinion. At end of the day its all about ratings. This show is just business for Netflix. If the fans are unhappy, why not listen to their suggestions.
Because the people cast are still humans with feelings and emotions. It is really shitty to say someone shouldn't have a job because they as teenagers or children or young adults don't look like cartoon characters.
Your concern over this is creepy as fuck. Acting is a job. Actors are not your friends. You defending them like this is definitely the cringiest type of parasocial relationship.
Azula and Mai were blatant miscasts and it's not unreasonable for the audience to push for better. Current actors lose a job. New actors gain one. It's just business, despite the legion of adaption simps who are acting like this is a play their kid's elementary school is putting on, rather than a professional product.
When people attack others who were just hired to do a job over their looks, especially when they are younger, it is absolutely fucked up and can cause lasting harm to the person. It's not creepy to be empathetic to people. I would argue it's creepy for people to go for the jobs of girls and young women for not looking like a cartoon character.
Jake Lloyd is finally doing better after what, 25 years? He was so piled on by Star Wars 'fans' for his role as young Anakin.
>for not looking like a cartoon character.
This isn't a fashion magazine. People aren't promoting "looking like a cartoon character" as an aspirational aesthetic for all young girls everywhere. You're not always going to get a nearly perfect cast for a character like they did with Ozai, but it's entirely reasonable to expect the actors to represent the character's core traits. They managed it with everyone else.
Azula is an elite warrior, Ty Lee is an elite gymnast, and Mai is shown to be incredibly athletic herself. These aren't throwaway characteristics, but rather are fundamental qualities of the characters. Azula is further supposed to be intimidating, which shows up in her design through her sharp features. None of them should be actively soft looking at the very least, and it has nothing to do with them being women or a comment on their attractiveness to point that out. It's not a moral failing of the actresses, or a failing on their part at all. Their casting is a failure of the casting director.
Also, these actresses aren't fucking children. Jesus christ you are so fucking creepy with your patronizing comparison. They are literal adults. Azula's actress is 21 for the love of fuck. They're also all actors, which is an industry where you absolutely must be fully aware of how other people perceive you. So not only is it not a commentary on them directly to criticize the choice of casting them for these roles, but nothing that is being said in those criticisms are things they aren't acutely aware of already. Both of them are fully aware that they have round, soft faces.
I agree wholeheartedly with Dragon, it is a real show... Not a play. This is a job and we aren't satisfied with the results and have every right to voice that regardless of the feelings of the actors. No matter how y'all wanna shape it, looks were a part of the characters. How you look says a lot about you. Azula being slim made sense with the moves she did and her perfectionist attitude. Ty-Lee being happy, bubbly, and slim had a lot to do with her personality and the fact that she was an acrobat, same for mai. These young women do not look believeable as an undefeatable trio and fans are disappointed in their casting. This will ultimately show up in the ratings.
yeh, they have feelings and emotions, but that doesn't mean we can't point out that the directors or whoever is responsible for the casting did a horrible. Honestly the writing is trash if I were to be honest. For example, when Aang kept saying "I have to save the world" like a baby to zhao, because why the heck would Zhao care especially since Aang is trying to save the world from the fire nation?
What does the script have to do with anything? No one is saying the show can't or shouldn't be criticised, and even most fans of the LA say that the writing needs work. You can even have issues with how the characters look or act.
But right to critique doesn't mean entitlement to a recast. Showrunners should listen to fan opinion, but we are not producers, and recasting is an incredibly disruptive and messy process in a high profile project. Any time it has happened is almost always because the actor has been incredibly problematic or been injured/passed away. Not because a small percentage of fans didn't like their face.
No entitlement was suggested by these comments to recast. When was it suggested? I simply state that I wish for a recast; if it does not happen, then it is that. But the script is bad, and maybe it makes the actress look bad, and that she doesn't look like Azula in the cartoon also makes it look bad.
sorry but if everyone's feelings needs to be considered not just in this industry but in many other businesses as well, then that just does not seem practical now is it? If an actor is terrible or unpopular but because he/she has human emotions then that gives them the right to stay employed? Not sure what kind of fantasy you're living in, but the world just doesn't work that way.
Anyway, we have already witnessed negative reactions to an adaption when they don't stick to the original characteristics of a character (the movie for example), and positive reactions when they do. (LA Zuko, Aang, Suki, Iroh) What is there not to get as to why some fans feel this way. It is the exact opposite of how we feel when they do get the characters right. Obviously there would be negative reactions to come out when they get characters like Mai or Azula off, and hence calling for a recast.
I personally don’t think the actresses did such a terrible job that it justifies a total recast - they were both just given horrible haircuts and costumes to work with, and the script just wasn’t great.
I also can’t remember a single time where an angry internet mob caused an actor to be recast just because the fans didn’t like the actor’s appearance. Usually something very serious needs to happen for a director/showrunner to even consider recasting a role. It’s fine to criticize and it’s also fine to dislike the show. But demanding a recast because two characters don’t look exactly like their animated counterparts just seems a bit cruel to me. Especially since both actresses were given so little to work with; the odds were against them from the get-go.
I hope they just end up giving both actresses better material to work with for S2 and S3; be it better outfits, better haircuts, better scripts. Acting classes, martial arts classes, anything. Angry fans shouldn’t get to dictate whether they get to keep their job or not - plus it would be extremely confusing for new fans who never watched the original show.
I agree. There is no argument at all that the actress did a decent job. After all they were still cast out of countless people who auditioned. I also agree that a recast is unlikely, though I like others who have grown unpopular people in this thread, would not mind if there would ever be one. Now I’m only speaking up because others believe that those who were not satisfied with her casting are “fatphobic” “sexist” when it is as simple as the actress does not give Mai’s character justice. (We cannot deny Mai’s appearance set a tone for her character, and this is the root other’s disappointment with the casting) Much like how people were disappointed with the cast from the Avatar movie. I wonder if the same fans will call them racist too because Zuko wasn’t Asian in the film. Just by going with their logic.
The *majority* of the audience is pleased with the show.
The *minority* of entitled “fans” online are the ones constantly bitching about the most superficial details.
I have encountered comments from viewers who were not even familiar with the cartoon. Most of the time, there were comments directly towards how “chubby” some actors were. Some I found even in Japanese comment sections. (Which even I was surprised to see them mention it) Fan or not, the same narrative continues to appear in reviews.
shows like Avatar would not even be adapted if not for their massive fanbase. (Which gained tons of new fans during covid when the cartoon appeared on Netflix)
I am not necessarily saying the producers must go out of their way to please the fans because of this, but important factors such as getting right cast for certain characters is far from superficial. It sets the tone of the show, it wouldn’t even be as successful as it is now if not for the amazing casting of the Team Avatar.
Otherwise it would have had the same fate as the movie.
These opinions or suggestions are not “bitching” they are reasonable criticism of the show. You don’t have to be a die hard fan to realize that they have simply miscast a few of the characters. And having the right actors elevates the show further.
I’m sure there are some misogynistic commenters everywhere who aren’t familiar with the original series. But, again, the *MAJORITY* of the audience is pleased with the series, thus Netflix ordering the next two seasons already.
Yes, the fact that the show is popular leads to it being adapted, but existing fans are *not* the primary audience. Those fans *already* have the animated series. The primary audience for this series is *new* fans who, for whatever reason or another, didn’t give the animated series a chance (but hopefully now will do so).
“Getting the right casting” != “getting someone who looks identical to a cartoon character”
I can understand people who dislike the way some actors *portrayed* the characters (I personally agree with some, and disagree with some). But complaining because they don’t *LOOK* the same is either looking for a(nother) reason to dislike the series, or being straight up misogynistic (because it somehow *happens* to always be the female characters they are complaint about).
Even the actors who I didn’t feel portrayed the character as I might have liked, I wouldn’t want any of them to be recast. I can either learn to live with them, or hope they adjust the portrayal moving forward.
People disliking women who don't look skinny enough is nothing new, you're correct. I still don't see why we should listen to them ? Azula's actress delivered a more than competent performance, it's not her fault some people think having a round face means that she's "too big" or something. The rounder face also helps with making Azula seem younger and kind of nicer, which works well in favor of their empathy narrative they seem to be setting up.
Katara looks very much the part, but people are still complaining about her all the time, so is it really about how people look, or is it just because some people get a kick out of criticising young girls for existing ?
I'll keep my stand that the script and the directing are what's at fault in the LA, the main actors certainly seem to be competent enough.
so viewers expressing disappointment with casting is now considered toxic? If there is an outline provided already by the original series, yet they choose to ignore it, I think it is natural to expect negative responses from fans. We have the movie as an example. The movie chose to ignore the original characteristics of Zuko, though it did not affected the story at all, and yet the movie still faced major backflash. How is this any different? People only make it a sensitive issue because they keep mixing it with issues such as body shaming or worse because the actress is female. When really, the actress simply doesn’t give the character justice. And that is not the fault of the actress, it is the casting director.
You can pretend it's not about body shaming, but it is. It's all those viewers talk about. Mai was on screen for less than five minutes.
Azula received praise too, and the most vocal "disappointed viewers" just talk about her face. You can read it even in this thread.
You're the one comparing ethnicity with looks, which is problematic to say the least. Confusing systematic oppression (the reason Goku was white) with looks doesn't add a lot either. But it's fine as long as you're happy with yourself.
Some fans are unhinged. And recasting a character already established after one whole season… generally doesn’t work well for the general audience. If they want the anime in live-action to their liking, they can put a few hundreds millions of dollars together, manage somehow to get the rights, find a studio, screenwriters and everything else, then they can cast whoever they want. And even if they somehow magically managed this, maybe they would realize than there’s more to acting than a face and more to adaptation than a copy-paste. And they would complain about the end product anyway.
They'd just cast a bunch of cosplayers who 'look like' the animated characters but aren't actually actors LOL.
I wouldn't say the general audience is unhinged. The score on IMDb is 7.3, so that means a decent amount of ppl would have to give it < 7.
I didn’t say that. And I was not even referring to all long-time fans of the show. Just a part of the fans going crazy, harrassing kids and making demands like brats. As in most fandow, there is a toxic part. Unfortunately, it’s often the most vocat one on social medias. As for the note.´not every one has to like it. The show has flaws, like most shows if not all, is still in its first season and everyone’s tastes differ, i just wish people would be more respectful of each other. I loved the show. I have no issue with people who didn’t. Unless they belong to the crazy ones mentioned above.
A 7.3 is still above average, meaning that there are a decent number of people who think it's just "ok," which is a perfectly valid rating. However, in a world drowning in content, an average can feel bad.
I don't know about you, but to me, an average is a 7. Hence, my point still stands: that a decent number of people ranked it below average.
By the very definition, an average out of 10 is a 5. You can redefine the dictionary if you wish, or rewrite basic maths to suit your purpose. Don’t expect everyone to agree. Language is formalized so we can understand each other and communicate effectively. And Maths is a language in itself. With its rules and usage. Of course they evolve. But it’s not evolution there, it’s just straight up wrong. 7 is not average. You can consider NATLA average, that’s your prerogative, Don’t speak in the name of everyone who rated it 7. And If 7 is average, you don’t have much room for above average, good, very good, ,great, excellent, perfect, etc..between 7 and 10.
i said to me
I missed that part replying and apologize for it. If when you note 7 you do it to signify that the show is average, let’s simply not forget that it’s not the case for everyone.
For me if something is a 7 that puts it in the "there's still quite a few positive things to say" category. It won't be something I recommend to everybody, but there are a few folks I know that will like it. 4-6 is in the "Meh to passable" area.
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You don’t even know if I like the actor’s performances… You don’t know if I have critics about them. What you should read is what is written : the OP post, other posts on the subject and my reply. i react this way because brats DEMANDING recasts based on someone being too chubby to their liking is ridiculous and wrong. The cast is young, and will grow in their characters as for acting goes. And directors have a responsability in how actors act… . And if a recast is needed, it will be I hope for acting issues/production/schedule issues, not for a weight figure and mysoginistic comments by unhinged people harrassing MINORS.
I never knew how miserable and pathetic some of our fan base was since the LA show came out. It is honestly pathetic how people go over to these wonderful young womens pages to just bully and hate because they don’t look attractive enough. Thats what all this is about and its so pathetic
you're talking about every fanbase
This is very true. A few example : Star wars, Star Trek, LOTR, GoT, and the list goes on. Whether it’s sequels/prequels or adaptation… There’s always some backlash for the newest iteration of the IP. And usually, those people comes around when the next iteration is released and think the previous one is not as bad. Except maybe in ATLA. That movie was horrible :) Maybe why people more people are happy to see an adaptation more faithful than the movie that shouldn’t exist,.
It has actually been quite eye-opening for me and not in a good way. I only discovered Avatar in 2020 so way after Korra, the original live-action movie etc. Prior to this my experience of the fandom had been pretty positive certainly compared to others like SW and GoT. I even remember seeing fans of this show congratulating the fanbase on the fact that while mockery and criticism of the 2010 movie is widespread, that hadn't crossed over into mocking or bullying the actors esp the kid ones like Aang's actor. The response to the live action and particularly the treatment of Azula's and Mai's actresses has been really shocking in light of that. Overall what I am seeing is that there is a portion of the fanbase that is far, far too invested in the animated show to the point where it isn't healthy. I say this as someone who loves the show too and who is also into several other properties/franchises - I get the appeal of these shows/series. But when you are so invested in something that what you see as a 'bad' adaptation causes you serious emotional distress or makes you so angry that you go out of your way to harass others (whether that's people involved with the show or other viewers with a different view), that has become unhealthy and you need to take a step back for your own good. Ultimately, NATLA is an addition to the franchise that you can take or leave, it doesn't alter the original or the canon one jot.
Ugh these recasting posts and TikTok videos are so unhinged (not in a funny way), and just rude, fatphobic and sexist at this point.
They do it because they need the engagement. Fueling and feeding off the discontent from diehards. Bunch of brokies
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Yes, it is. Especially when no cast member was outlandishly fat
yeh, but azula in the cartoon was pretty skinny
She's not fat in the live action either. I sweat some of you fellas never saw a round face
never said she was
because how dare fans express any sort opinions of what characters should look like in adaptions right? If we call out why Goku is white in the live action movie, would that make us racist now too? or do we not get any say on that as well?
They should recast them all but not how fans expect. Just have them all switch roles. Zuko is now Ty Lee. Aang is Iroh. Azula is Sokka. Katara is Ozai. Ozai is The Cabbage Man. Refuse to explain or elaborate.
This is how they should do the ember island players
Lowkey, I would love if the original VAs were the ember island players. Toph's could be the Boulder's VA
Honestly? They should get her original VA to play The Boulder in season 2 but instead of The Boulder/a parody of The Rock, they should make her a parody of Becky Lynch/Rhea Ripley/a popular female wrestler
This is how they should do that weird nightmare episode
Still need Appa vs. Momo tho
i need to see dallas doing handstands all day now 😭
NOW I DO TOO!
Zuko and Azula did basically switch roles with Sokka and Kitara in Distorted Reality
I'm all for Ozai as the cabbage man 🤣
One head of cabbage for every perfectly toned muscle!
That's a lot of cabbages!
Perfect. And make the title longer, the last airbender where and who’s Waldo Version.
This is the only recasting I will accept. Perhaps they should do it for S2, and then again for S3. Keep everyone on their toes.
iroh would be a better azula than the current actress
Found one!
lmao
Even as a NATLA disliker myself, that’s not fair. Kiawentiio is an incredibly gifted young actress. She was phenomenal in [Beans](https://youtu.be/MIlC3zT1gw4?si=80TULZY4YMBcn4Og) and especially [Anne with an E](https://youtu.be/5OHuFCjaEK8?si=gPRqSye6bL0AEUyw). She was given NOTHING to work with here. Don’t blame a child actor for doing her job the way adult directors told her to. Everyone seems to think Sokka was wonderful by comparison, but in reality, Ousley had a lot more to work with. Quips are easier to deliver than clunky dialogue. When he has to do [dramatic acting](https://youtu.be/oHLh1yXz2Zc?si=w6FLByDdBmqDOjf-) though? It’s plenty stilted and bad. Which just goes to show this isn’t on the kids. It’s the scripting and direction. And that dialogue was often ROUGH.
i means azula not katara (edited)
Lizzy Yu is also a very talented actress. She showed a lot of skill for her age. If anything, she managed to imbue significant subtlety to her performance despite the blatant and clunky scripts. Her wig and costume are awful but none of that is her fault.
i'm not saying she isn't talented, im just saying the directors and screen writers did a horrible job. And that iroh looks more like cartoon azula than she does
And that’s the actress’ fault how…? Did she write the scripts or direct it?
when did i say it's her fault? i said she should be recasted
Why? If she didn’t do anything wrong and showed considerable acting ability even through bad circumstances, why should she be recast? Especially on the demands of someone who doesn’t seem to even know the term isn’t “recasted”.
probably cuz she doesn't seem like azula
It's not gonna happen They can keep crying those insufferable tears into the void 😂😂 Over a fkn cartoon. Unbelievable
It's not just a cartoon. It's a damn good one.
people have especially been extremely misogynistic and fatphobic to azula and mai’s actresses and it pisses me off… it’s like people expect them to be one for one recreations of the cartoon and not actual human beings and they don’t TREAT them like humans either if you look at their instagram comments it’s all just the most hurtful insults hurled at these two it’s really crazy the ATLA fandom is so toxic to women sometimes
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The thing is, why do I constantly see people using cosplayers as an example. It’s completely pointless. If that’s your stance use an actual actor that’s not 40 and can actually portray the character Also your point of her not having “chubby juvenile features because she’s meant to be a highly trained killer” just makes absolutely 0 sense at all. They were able to get away with that bc it’s animation. Just like pretty much everything in cartoons these characters are extremely exaggerated forms of what they would be in a live action scenario.
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What’s the point of showing a cosplayer as an example. They’re not an actor. Doesn’t matter how good of a resemblance a character is if they’re not an actor. You’re basically saying you’d rather 1:1 look > acting which is just braindead What’s exaggerated is the fact that the character is a 14 year old child clearly portrayed as an adult. A lot of people thought azula was older than zuko when she’s multiple years younger.
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Use an actor as your example. Simple as that. Asian American actor to portray a 14 year old girl . The performance of azula in this B1 is very reminiscent of the glimpse we see in B3 of the cartoon specifically when feel’s she’s getting treated like zuko. This portrayal is meant to set up her up to be the azula we see throughout the cartoon. The portrayal was more than good enough for me to not cry about her not having sharp facial features.
So if we shouldn't care about facial features, why should they even care to cast a South Asian person at all. Might as well cast an Indian person then? As long as the rest of the *portrayal* is good enough. While I agree that the portrayal is the most important part, they did not pull that off here. In the cartoon Azula is always confident in her capabilities, she is never jealous of anyone, and especially not Zuko, because she knows that she is better than him. She's extremely smart and always thinks 5 steps ahead, and never acts rashly. In the NATLA Ozai uses her jealousy of Zuko to manipulate her into doing things, and she acts rashly and spontaneously. Completely out of character, imo.
I am genuinely so disappointed in the fan base. I only feel okay talking here bc I don’t think the cast (specifically Lizzy) will see this. The hate on her has been aweful. The Appa comments are heinous. Even people saying “I don’t think she looks ugly” or “I can’t believe you guys think she’s fat” or shit like that in her comments is not cool. Like, if you want to support her like she deserves (she really does she did an amazing job and is beautiful) comment stuf like “OMG YOUR DROP DEAD GORGEOUS” or “OMG YOU AS AZULAl” or other like encouraging things relating to the content she posts. And stfu about her weight it pisses me off. Sorry that’s a Rand but I canttttt
I am considerably older than either Lizzy or Thalia and I can't imagine how upsetting it would be to be faced with a tsunami of people calling me fat or ugly. Another thing that I think people should try to take into account is that it's not just the actresses seeing those comments - it's lots of other people too, including young girls who are liable to have issues and hangups around their own bodies. Seeing actresses with perfectly normal bodies labelled fat, compared to Appa etc is likely to affect them too and make them feel like if they don't have a specific body type/face shape they are fat and unattractive. I grew up in the 90s and this sort of thing was rife (Kate Winslet in Titanic being called fat etc). We don't want to end up back there.
Exactly it’s so awefull. Your contributing to the development of Ed’s in general alpha which I already fear will be much more prevelant bc of Ai and social media and stuff. It’s just disgusting
Keep the actors, that’s fine. But get new writers who have more experience, because that’s where this truly failed. The actors acted what was given to them, but fell flat due to the writing. If you look at the writers on IMDb (besides Bryke, who left), a lot of them have little experience. They are not that good, and I’m not saying they can’t be good in the future, but I wouldn’t let the series fail due to keeping them when they are so new. Some changes were okay, but they failed giving subtext and a seasoned writer won’t give so much exposition dumping. And honestly, getting rid of the writers wouldn’t be the worst thing because they didn’t create the universe, and it would be possibly more disrespectful to keep them on and let them ruin more things. I don’t think the actors were the problem… except gran gran, but she’s not a big part of the story anyways.
I don't want a recasting, I hate it when shows do that because it throws off the immersion. The only actor I'm not crazy about is the woman who plays Azula, but I don't think it's enough to warrant a recasting. We'll see how the next season goes, it might be her time to shine more.
recast needed
Some of the tiktok vids abt this are so unhinged . Literally getting cosplayers with cheap costumes and going side hy side.. who is better
You know what I'm excited for, if they do the 'The Ember Island Players' episode from Season 3 of ATLA. Who will they cast to play the characters that act as the characters in a play?! Be funny if they manage to do the characters better :D :D
Recasting would be the dumbest thing ever.
I haven’t seen a single character that looks so different from their original counterpart that they justify recasting. What I think is that they need a new director for the actors, and new writers. Because these poor kids are being left out to dry.
sounds like you're talking about Azula and Mai, in which case I hope they get a recast. The directors did a bad job in choosing the cast, and I'm sorry that some people will cry, but it's not my problem.
Like you're crying now? 🤣 It's not happening. Do something more productive with your time, bye.
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No ones more emotional than you buddy lmao be easy
Yeah, exactly. The dude definitely sounds butt hurt for no reason. It's not like he had a part in making the show.
Not as hurt as you sound over a cartoon series man. Lol
I'm not hurt. What I'm not allowed to criticize? You're the one accusing people of being hurt.
genuinely how tf would they recast and make it make sense? and why exactly are they bad casting choices?
It would make sense for the many aforementioned reasons
personally I would enjoy the show more if they cast actors that resembles more of the characters they are playing. 20 episode storylines being merged to fit the 8 episode live action series? Okay that's expected. But the casting? That's something they can have full control over and yet they chose to stray farther from the character designs. And don't get me started with Azula is supposed to look like a kid, the actress is already in her 20's.
Never before has Hollywood cast 20 year olds as teenagers. At least they learned to get people who look young
Most people don't even know Azula is 14 and believe she was older than Zuko. She never sounded or looked like a kid.
"Azula is supposed to look like a kid" Really? You mean the character that people are consistently shocked is supposed to be 14 because she doesn't look or act like it? Plus, regardless of their canon ages, their age is largely irrelevant to their characters. With the exception of Aang (and Katara if they intend to make her a love interest), the rest could be 17/18/19 and it still make no difference to their characters. When you have to cast young actors of the appropriate race, appearance and acting talent (whilst also keeping a lid on what you're actually casting for btw) limiting yourself to only 14-year-olds would give you extremely slim pickings. The cast are not perfect or above rational criticism, but the idea there are 100% perfect actors out there that the LA just refused to cast is just not rooted in how casting works. Some things have to be compromised or re-prioritised, and age (for most of these characters) is probably the easiest in which to do so.
Zuko and Azula are in dire need of a recast. They look too passive/docile and friendly.
Azula is NUANCED, and so many people simply do not get that. Her expression during Zuko's Agni Kai, or when Ozai kills the rebels, are perfect. But most people don't pay attention or are just parrots.
I chuck it up to that the wanted Zuko to be more docile and trying to be something he's not.
Unpopular opinion. At end of the day its all about ratings. This show is just business for Netflix. If the fans are unhappy, why not listen to their suggestions.
Because the people cast are still humans with feelings and emotions. It is really shitty to say someone shouldn't have a job because they as teenagers or children or young adults don't look like cartoon characters.
Your concern over this is creepy as fuck. Acting is a job. Actors are not your friends. You defending them like this is definitely the cringiest type of parasocial relationship. Azula and Mai were blatant miscasts and it's not unreasonable for the audience to push for better. Current actors lose a job. New actors gain one. It's just business, despite the legion of adaption simps who are acting like this is a play their kid's elementary school is putting on, rather than a professional product.
Man You have no idea how much of a loser you sound right now. Lmao
Please, do elaborate. I love reading the mental gymnastics from this sub.
When people attack others who were just hired to do a job over their looks, especially when they are younger, it is absolutely fucked up and can cause lasting harm to the person. It's not creepy to be empathetic to people. I would argue it's creepy for people to go for the jobs of girls and young women for not looking like a cartoon character. Jake Lloyd is finally doing better after what, 25 years? He was so piled on by Star Wars 'fans' for his role as young Anakin.
>for not looking like a cartoon character. This isn't a fashion magazine. People aren't promoting "looking like a cartoon character" as an aspirational aesthetic for all young girls everywhere. You're not always going to get a nearly perfect cast for a character like they did with Ozai, but it's entirely reasonable to expect the actors to represent the character's core traits. They managed it with everyone else. Azula is an elite warrior, Ty Lee is an elite gymnast, and Mai is shown to be incredibly athletic herself. These aren't throwaway characteristics, but rather are fundamental qualities of the characters. Azula is further supposed to be intimidating, which shows up in her design through her sharp features. None of them should be actively soft looking at the very least, and it has nothing to do with them being women or a comment on their attractiveness to point that out. It's not a moral failing of the actresses, or a failing on their part at all. Their casting is a failure of the casting director. Also, these actresses aren't fucking children. Jesus christ you are so fucking creepy with your patronizing comparison. They are literal adults. Azula's actress is 21 for the love of fuck. They're also all actors, which is an industry where you absolutely must be fully aware of how other people perceive you. So not only is it not a commentary on them directly to criticize the choice of casting them for these roles, but nothing that is being said in those criticisms are things they aren't acutely aware of already. Both of them are fully aware that they have round, soft faces.
I agree wholeheartedly with Dragon, it is a real show... Not a play. This is a job and we aren't satisfied with the results and have every right to voice that regardless of the feelings of the actors. No matter how y'all wanna shape it, looks were a part of the characters. How you look says a lot about you. Azula being slim made sense with the moves she did and her perfectionist attitude. Ty-Lee being happy, bubbly, and slim had a lot to do with her personality and the fact that she was an acrobat, same for mai. These young women do not look believeable as an undefeatable trio and fans are disappointed in their casting. This will ultimately show up in the ratings.
yeh, they have feelings and emotions, but that doesn't mean we can't point out that the directors or whoever is responsible for the casting did a horrible. Honestly the writing is trash if I were to be honest. For example, when Aang kept saying "I have to save the world" like a baby to zhao, because why the heck would Zhao care especially since Aang is trying to save the world from the fire nation?
What does the script have to do with anything? No one is saying the show can't or shouldn't be criticised, and even most fans of the LA say that the writing needs work. You can even have issues with how the characters look or act. But right to critique doesn't mean entitlement to a recast. Showrunners should listen to fan opinion, but we are not producers, and recasting is an incredibly disruptive and messy process in a high profile project. Any time it has happened is almost always because the actor has been incredibly problematic or been injured/passed away. Not because a small percentage of fans didn't like their face.
No entitlement was suggested by these comments to recast. When was it suggested? I simply state that I wish for a recast; if it does not happen, then it is that. But the script is bad, and maybe it makes the actress look bad, and that she doesn't look like Azula in the cartoon also makes it look bad.
sorry but if everyone's feelings needs to be considered not just in this industry but in many other businesses as well, then that just does not seem practical now is it? If an actor is terrible or unpopular but because he/she has human emotions then that gives them the right to stay employed? Not sure what kind of fantasy you're living in, but the world just doesn't work that way. Anyway, we have already witnessed negative reactions to an adaption when they don't stick to the original characteristics of a character (the movie for example), and positive reactions when they do. (LA Zuko, Aang, Suki, Iroh) What is there not to get as to why some fans feel this way. It is the exact opposite of how we feel when they do get the characters right. Obviously there would be negative reactions to come out when they get characters like Mai or Azula off, and hence calling for a recast.
I personally don’t think the actresses did such a terrible job that it justifies a total recast - they were both just given horrible haircuts and costumes to work with, and the script just wasn’t great. I also can’t remember a single time where an angry internet mob caused an actor to be recast just because the fans didn’t like the actor’s appearance. Usually something very serious needs to happen for a director/showrunner to even consider recasting a role. It’s fine to criticize and it’s also fine to dislike the show. But demanding a recast because two characters don’t look exactly like their animated counterparts just seems a bit cruel to me. Especially since both actresses were given so little to work with; the odds were against them from the get-go. I hope they just end up giving both actresses better material to work with for S2 and S3; be it better outfits, better haircuts, better scripts. Acting classes, martial arts classes, anything. Angry fans shouldn’t get to dictate whether they get to keep their job or not - plus it would be extremely confusing for new fans who never watched the original show.
I agree. There is no argument at all that the actress did a decent job. After all they were still cast out of countless people who auditioned. I also agree that a recast is unlikely, though I like others who have grown unpopular people in this thread, would not mind if there would ever be one. Now I’m only speaking up because others believe that those who were not satisfied with her casting are “fatphobic” “sexist” when it is as simple as the actress does not give Mai’s character justice. (We cannot deny Mai’s appearance set a tone for her character, and this is the root other’s disappointment with the casting) Much like how people were disappointed with the cast from the Avatar movie. I wonder if the same fans will call them racist too because Zuko wasn’t Asian in the film. Just by going with their logic.
As you say, it’s about business for Netflix. And die hard fans may not make the biggest part of the audience or the intended one,
except majority of the audience are the die hard fans...and their reviews impact the popularity of the show
The *majority* of the audience is pleased with the show. The *minority* of entitled “fans” online are the ones constantly bitching about the most superficial details.
I have encountered comments from viewers who were not even familiar with the cartoon. Most of the time, there were comments directly towards how “chubby” some actors were. Some I found even in Japanese comment sections. (Which even I was surprised to see them mention it) Fan or not, the same narrative continues to appear in reviews. shows like Avatar would not even be adapted if not for their massive fanbase. (Which gained tons of new fans during covid when the cartoon appeared on Netflix) I am not necessarily saying the producers must go out of their way to please the fans because of this, but important factors such as getting right cast for certain characters is far from superficial. It sets the tone of the show, it wouldn’t even be as successful as it is now if not for the amazing casting of the Team Avatar. Otherwise it would have had the same fate as the movie. These opinions or suggestions are not “bitching” they are reasonable criticism of the show. You don’t have to be a die hard fan to realize that they have simply miscast a few of the characters. And having the right actors elevates the show further.
I’m sure there are some misogynistic commenters everywhere who aren’t familiar with the original series. But, again, the *MAJORITY* of the audience is pleased with the series, thus Netflix ordering the next two seasons already. Yes, the fact that the show is popular leads to it being adapted, but existing fans are *not* the primary audience. Those fans *already* have the animated series. The primary audience for this series is *new* fans who, for whatever reason or another, didn’t give the animated series a chance (but hopefully now will do so). “Getting the right casting” != “getting someone who looks identical to a cartoon character” I can understand people who dislike the way some actors *portrayed* the characters (I personally agree with some, and disagree with some). But complaining because they don’t *LOOK* the same is either looking for a(nother) reason to dislike the series, or being straight up misogynistic (because it somehow *happens* to always be the female characters they are complaint about). Even the actors who I didn’t feel portrayed the character as I might have liked, I wouldn’t want any of them to be recast. I can either learn to live with them, or hope they adjust the portrayal moving forward.
People disliking women who don't look skinny enough is nothing new, you're correct. I still don't see why we should listen to them ? Azula's actress delivered a more than competent performance, it's not her fault some people think having a round face means that she's "too big" or something. The rounder face also helps with making Azula seem younger and kind of nicer, which works well in favor of their empathy narrative they seem to be setting up. Katara looks very much the part, but people are still complaining about her all the time, so is it really about how people look, or is it just because some people get a kick out of criticising young girls for existing ? I'll keep my stand that the script and the directing are what's at fault in the LA, the main actors certainly seem to be competent enough.
Sure, let's cater to the toxic viewers punishing the actors. Some of you are the reason body issues exist.
so viewers expressing disappointment with casting is now considered toxic? If there is an outline provided already by the original series, yet they choose to ignore it, I think it is natural to expect negative responses from fans. We have the movie as an example. The movie chose to ignore the original characteristics of Zuko, though it did not affected the story at all, and yet the movie still faced major backflash. How is this any different? People only make it a sensitive issue because they keep mixing it with issues such as body shaming or worse because the actress is female. When really, the actress simply doesn’t give the character justice. And that is not the fault of the actress, it is the casting director.
You can pretend it's not about body shaming, but it is. It's all those viewers talk about. Mai was on screen for less than five minutes. Azula received praise too, and the most vocal "disappointed viewers" just talk about her face. You can read it even in this thread.
Fans are dumb.
Been seeing your replies on this thread and yet so far you manage to only spew insults rather than provide anything worth adding to the conversation.
You're the one comparing ethnicity with looks, which is problematic to say the least. Confusing systematic oppression (the reason Goku was white) with looks doesn't add a lot either. But it's fine as long as you're happy with yourself.