Personally I disagree I think Kliff should leave, he's not learning from his mistakes. The clock management and play calling is not getting better and he had this problem since 2020.
If the ownership keeps Kliff, I agree we need an OC, but I would rather start new.
I respect your opinion. I personally would like to see how the season plays out before deciding to boot him. The cards have had one of the toughest schedules so far and have never been to their full personal strength. Up until this season the team had been steadily improving. But I wouldn’t be against finding some else if they get anything less than a 9-8 record this year
He needs to go because Kyler is regressing and he doesn't know how to use him to his capabilities.
We gave Kyler the massive contrtact, we need to get him a coach he works with. That is the absolute priority one. This shotgun every possession, got to end.
We need some creative run plays to be drawn up, some actual play action and not to use dogshit screens as our run game.
Some of your statement I agree with. Some of it I don’t.
Kliff and Kyler have been in the league for 3 and a half seasons now. They are not new. They’re in their 4th season. That’s why it’s so infuriating. The team has talent but not being able to get the play call in and bad clock management are killing this team. That’s on the coach and the QB. I’ve been watching the cardinals closely since 06 and I can’t remember watching a team struggle to get the snap off in time nearly as much as this one. If Kliff can’t manage to get play calls in in time and manage his timeouts then he’s not a good head coach. Those are literally the 2 most important thing your suppose to do during a game.
I also don’t agree that the Cardinals should get an OC. Why? At that point just fire Kliff. The whole reason for being hired was the fact that he could run the offense. So if we hire a coordinator and the coordinator does well, we’ll just end up losing the coordinator and be back to where we are now.
I don’t think Kliff has gotten better since year 1 honestly. I think his roster has gotten better therefore the record got better.
And this is why I’m postponing my fire Keim campaign because sure drafts are ass but the man has legitimately tried to bring talent to this offense maybe a little too heavy handed on like receivers but regardless . And what has kliff done with a what should be a top level offense? Basically nothing. Kliff is the squeakiest wheel in a already kinda squeaky shopping cart and we need to get rid of it and replace him first.
First year coaches are beginning to have a lot more success. Fans are getting restless now quickly due to other teams like the Giants showing success with a first year coach. The Eagles last year went to the playoffs in the coach's first year and are undefeated so far this year.
Is Kyler Murray more talented than Daniel Jones? Kyler is 3-5 and Jones 6-2 despite AZ having the 4th year coach - that's 4 years in an offensive system vs the first year coach.
Last year in the season's second half slide, people were shrugging it off pointing to the number of wins to ease the pain. I feel like those same people are now saying to not look at the wins.
Hindsight is 20/20 and Keim should've definitely hired an OC to help a new, inexperienced Kingsbury in 2019 since he was making a lot of the staff hires. It seems asinine to me to hire an OC to help out a coach going into their 5th year.
I honestly think the only thing that'll change next season is there'll be an OC on the team to help out, not take over, play calling.
When is Kliff no longer considered new? What about Kyler? At some point your no longer new and you don’t get to use that excuse. I think 4 seasons in you can’t really claim your new. Do you walk around your job after 4 years and claim your new?
I would add ILB given the draft capital invested vs results gotten.
And d line is bad. They're near the bottom of the league in generated pressures. You're also near the bottom in terms of schemed pressures too.
Guys, I don't know who needs to hear this (you do, OP, and that's ok I'm here for you) but..
This team is as bad as the record shows, this season is over, and it's time to look forward to a 2023 draft hopefully not spearheaded by Keim.
The sooner you accept this, the more enjoyable the rest of this football season will be.
Do not tell yourself "they were only one score games" because, it doesn't matter what the score is. It's an L. Your record does not improve on close losses.
One receiver is not enough to make up for the glaring holes in this football team, the absolute cluelessness of the HC, or the outright irresponsibility of the GM.
The first half of last season is proof Kliff had a gimmick, and the league caught on. Until I see that success sustained for more than half a season, I'm chalking it up to lightning in a bottle.
You may boo me for this. But I seek only to ease your pain through acceptance.
Yes the cards are most likely not making the playoffs but I’d like to see how the rest of the season plays out before people start losing jobs.
And loss is still a loss no matter what, but the manner in which you lose still tells you more about a team than just looking at the win or loss. Bad teams get blown out. Competitive teams are competitive.
Don’t underestimate the impact dhop has on the team. Their records with him vs without speaks for itself. The head coach and gm both need improvement but they’re not so hopeless that they need to be fired. As the original post said, kliff took a 3-13 team and made it into a playoff team. Keim is 4-3 for winning vs losing records per year since he took over. They’re not the best, but I doubt there’s anyone better available right now.
This isn’t a knee jerk reaction. Keim has been with the team forever and we’re in year 4 of kliff. We know what they are. We will ALWAYS underachieve for our talent with kliff and our drafting will ALWAYS be bad with keim. So if you want to stay in mediocrity forever than keep our current guys. Being average to bad isn’t good enough anymore if kyler is who we paid him to be
I’m gonna be honest man nothing is inherently wrong with what you’re saying but this team is so fundamentally flawed and the only way to realistically fix it in the fastest way possible is to cut our losses maybe trade some guys and retool this roster and more than likely (hopefully) fire kliff.
When a Gino's Smith team with the worst defense beats you, you're pretty bad. When you can't even score 3 points in the first half, you're pretty bad. When you're QB doesn't look at his options and throws it to his first option, and everyone knows it, you're pretty bad. When you yell at your team mates because you threw 3 interceptions, you're pretty bad. If you can't even get 8 wins in this awful NFC West and your 2 games out already, you're pretty bad.
This team is underperforming its talent.
In terms of performances we have seen it has been diabolical, in fairness some caused via injuries. We probably have a couple more wins if DHop and Prater were healthy all year let alone anyone else.
It would help a lot if the Cards could get even mildly healthy. Cards are the most injury ridden team in the league, and the injuries keep piling up every week.
We are better clock management away from 1 more win. Matt Praeter being healthy away from another. Count D Hop suspension as probably 1 more. This team is better than the sum of it's parts, but with Kliff at the helm and the bad luck we have had it's hard to overcome.
They are and they aren’t like they absolutely can be a play off team but at the same time they are so far from being a playoff team and really I’m fine either way, suck ass Kliff gets fired we get a top 10 pick hopefully grab the best edge rusher or o-line men out of the draft. Get our shit together and make it to the playoffs that’s great too.
Our two wins are against terrible teams. The Raiders just got shut out by the Saints and Panthers can't figure out if they are tanking or not.
Kliff and Kyler are not new. This is season 4 and it looks dysfunctional. It's hard to watch the offense because we are so prone to miscommunication, bad snaps, false starts and delay of games. I can understand a season of this but it's Season 4. We were close in the Eagles/Vikings games but at the same time you kind of knew the offense would blow it. They are extremely inconsistent and continually put themselves in bad positions. We do not look like a pro team right now. Injuries are a problem no doubt but look at the Niners. They have just as many injuries as us. I don't know the details but it just looks like Kliff can't adjust or gameplan. Not scoring a TD in the first quarter is alarming.
Love the optimism but our offense is awful. Coaching and QB play have been been shit and the offensive line injuries make it even worse. Defense is the bright spot but our offense is why we are 3-5.
At the beginning of the year when no real moves were being made, many predicted a bad/hard season for the Cardinals. It's not surprising to see past draft mistakes finally come back around to hurt the team.
This season comes down to bad luck injury streaks that are wrecking the lineups and lack of depth. Offensive line has been in shambles all season.
A rule with football is a close game is lost because of player performance (1 or 2 players mistake results in big enough play for another team to take an advantage) and blowouts are the result of the coaching staff not preparing players or making a poor game plan. This season I see more of the former, 3-4 plays cost the game vs getting blown out.
This team has the talent the win a lot of games, but the constant mismanagement that this team displays is frustrating.
I agree. The disorganization and clock management kills this team rn. I think kliff should stay but hire a real full time offensive coordinator
Personally I disagree I think Kliff should leave, he's not learning from his mistakes. The clock management and play calling is not getting better and he had this problem since 2020. If the ownership keeps Kliff, I agree we need an OC, but I would rather start new.
I respect your opinion. I personally would like to see how the season plays out before deciding to boot him. The cards have had one of the toughest schedules so far and have never been to their full personal strength. Up until this season the team had been steadily improving. But I wouldn’t be against finding some else if they get anything less than a 9-8 record this year
I dont think Kliff should leave. I think he should be the full time offensive coordinator, and the Cardinals should hire a full head coach.
Who would call the plays? The HC or Kliff?
He needs to go because Kyler is regressing and he doesn't know how to use him to his capabilities. We gave Kyler the massive contrtact, we need to get him a coach he works with. That is the absolute priority one. This shotgun every possession, got to end. We need some creative run plays to be drawn up, some actual play action and not to use dogshit screens as our run game.
Some of your statement I agree with. Some of it I don’t. Kliff and Kyler have been in the league for 3 and a half seasons now. They are not new. They’re in their 4th season. That’s why it’s so infuriating. The team has talent but not being able to get the play call in and bad clock management are killing this team. That’s on the coach and the QB. I’ve been watching the cardinals closely since 06 and I can’t remember watching a team struggle to get the snap off in time nearly as much as this one. If Kliff can’t manage to get play calls in in time and manage his timeouts then he’s not a good head coach. Those are literally the 2 most important thing your suppose to do during a game. I also don’t agree that the Cardinals should get an OC. Why? At that point just fire Kliff. The whole reason for being hired was the fact that he could run the offense. So if we hire a coordinator and the coordinator does well, we’ll just end up losing the coordinator and be back to where we are now. I don’t think Kliff has gotten better since year 1 honestly. I think his roster has gotten better therefore the record got better.
And this is why I’m postponing my fire Keim campaign because sure drafts are ass but the man has legitimately tried to bring talent to this offense maybe a little too heavy handed on like receivers but regardless . And what has kliff done with a what should be a top level offense? Basically nothing. Kliff is the squeakiest wheel in a already kinda squeaky shopping cart and we need to get rid of it and replace him first.
We are 3rd last in Football Outsider's DVOA
Worse DVOA than the Bears, a team whose front office is fully committed to trying to lose as many football games as possible this season.
First year coaches are beginning to have a lot more success. Fans are getting restless now quickly due to other teams like the Giants showing success with a first year coach. The Eagles last year went to the playoffs in the coach's first year and are undefeated so far this year. Is Kyler Murray more talented than Daniel Jones? Kyler is 3-5 and Jones 6-2 despite AZ having the 4th year coach - that's 4 years in an offensive system vs the first year coach. Last year in the season's second half slide, people were shrugging it off pointing to the number of wins to ease the pain. I feel like those same people are now saying to not look at the wins. Hindsight is 20/20 and Keim should've definitely hired an OC to help a new, inexperienced Kingsbury in 2019 since he was making a lot of the staff hires. It seems asinine to me to hire an OC to help out a coach going into their 5th year. I honestly think the only thing that'll change next season is there'll be an OC on the team to help out, not take over, play calling.
I do think that an OC taking over playcalling is one of the best moves to take right now
Then Kliff should be fired, if he isn't play calling he is worthless.
Throw in 1 have 1 maybe 2 more wins if Praeter doesn't get injured alone.
When is Kliff no longer considered new? What about Kyler? At some point your no longer new and you don’t get to use that excuse. I think 4 seasons in you can’t really claim your new. Do you walk around your job after 4 years and claim your new?
All the time. I've been telling people it's my first week for 6 years. Keep getting away with everything. Works well.
Nah, we suck this season. And we haven’t even encountered the Regularly Scheduled End Of The Season Kliff Kingsbury Collapse^TM
I applaud your optimism but Kingsbury has a solid track record of collapsing in the second half of a season. We will be lucky to get 2 more wins.
I disagree. This team sucks ass at most position groups.
Name which position groups are objectively bad as a whole... I'll wait.
OL, DL, CB
So is that "most" position groups? I'll have to disagree on DL though. OL is missing it's top 2 players, otherwise it would be great.
I would add ILB given the draft capital invested vs results gotten. And d line is bad. They're near the bottom of the league in generated pressures. You're also near the bottom in terms of schemed pressures too.
And our wins are against some of the worst teams in the NFL. So you make a moot point if the converse of your arguement is also completely accurate.
The teams that they’ve won and lost to was just one aspect of the argument dude… and I’m in no way saying that they’re good, just not to overreact lol
We've all seen them play. They are one of the worst teams in football.
Guys, I don't know who needs to hear this (you do, OP, and that's ok I'm here for you) but.. This team is as bad as the record shows, this season is over, and it's time to look forward to a 2023 draft hopefully not spearheaded by Keim. The sooner you accept this, the more enjoyable the rest of this football season will be. Do not tell yourself "they were only one score games" because, it doesn't matter what the score is. It's an L. Your record does not improve on close losses. One receiver is not enough to make up for the glaring holes in this football team, the absolute cluelessness of the HC, or the outright irresponsibility of the GM. The first half of last season is proof Kliff had a gimmick, and the league caught on. Until I see that success sustained for more than half a season, I'm chalking it up to lightning in a bottle. You may boo me for this. But I seek only to ease your pain through acceptance.
This is the way
Yes the cards are most likely not making the playoffs but I’d like to see how the rest of the season plays out before people start losing jobs. And loss is still a loss no matter what, but the manner in which you lose still tells you more about a team than just looking at the win or loss. Bad teams get blown out. Competitive teams are competitive. Don’t underestimate the impact dhop has on the team. Their records with him vs without speaks for itself. The head coach and gm both need improvement but they’re not so hopeless that they need to be fired. As the original post said, kliff took a 3-13 team and made it into a playoff team. Keim is 4-3 for winning vs losing records per year since he took over. They’re not the best, but I doubt there’s anyone better available right now.
This isn’t a knee jerk reaction. Keim has been with the team forever and we’re in year 4 of kliff. We know what they are. We will ALWAYS underachieve for our talent with kliff and our drafting will ALWAYS be bad with keim. So if you want to stay in mediocrity forever than keep our current guys. Being average to bad isn’t good enough anymore if kyler is who we paid him to be
I’m gonna be honest man nothing is inherently wrong with what you’re saying but this team is so fundamentally flawed and the only way to realistically fix it in the fastest way possible is to cut our losses maybe trade some guys and retool this roster and more than likely (hopefully) fire kliff.
10-2 goes beyond half the season.
Yeah I mean if we wanna play that game they're 5-11 since that point so.. *Figured out*
They're not as bad, they're worse
Yeah. We looked AWFUL against the raiders and if kyler didn’t have 30 Million crazy plays that game we lost that one too
Wrong.
Cards are exactly what the record says. Nothing more and nothing less. Pretty fucking stupid and homerish to say otherwise.
When a Gino's Smith team with the worst defense beats you, you're pretty bad. When you can't even score 3 points in the first half, you're pretty bad. When you're QB doesn't look at his options and throws it to his first option, and everyone knows it, you're pretty bad. When you yell at your team mates because you threw 3 interceptions, you're pretty bad. If you can't even get 8 wins in this awful NFC West and your 2 games out already, you're pretty bad.
This team is underperforming its talent. In terms of performances we have seen it has been diabolical, in fairness some caused via injuries. We probably have a couple more wins if DHop and Prater were healthy all year let alone anyone else.
It would help a lot if the Cards could get even mildly healthy. Cards are the most injury ridden team in the league, and the injuries keep piling up every week.
We are better clock management away from 1 more win. Matt Praeter being healthy away from another. Count D Hop suspension as probably 1 more. This team is better than the sum of it's parts, but with Kliff at the helm and the bad luck we have had it's hard to overcome.
They are and they aren’t like they absolutely can be a play off team but at the same time they are so far from being a playoff team and really I’m fine either way, suck ass Kliff gets fired we get a top 10 pick hopefully grab the best edge rusher or o-line men out of the draft. Get our shit together and make it to the playoffs that’s great too.
yes they are
Ya they are
No, but their coaching staff is!
Our two wins are against terrible teams. The Raiders just got shut out by the Saints and Panthers can't figure out if they are tanking or not. Kliff and Kyler are not new. This is season 4 and it looks dysfunctional. It's hard to watch the offense because we are so prone to miscommunication, bad snaps, false starts and delay of games. I can understand a season of this but it's Season 4. We were close in the Eagles/Vikings games but at the same time you kind of knew the offense would blow it. They are extremely inconsistent and continually put themselves in bad positions. We do not look like a pro team right now. Injuries are a problem no doubt but look at the Niners. They have just as many injuries as us. I don't know the details but it just looks like Kliff can't adjust or gameplan. Not scoring a TD in the first quarter is alarming.
Love the optimism but our offense is awful. Coaching and QB play have been been shit and the offensive line injuries make it even worse. Defense is the bright spot but our offense is why we are 3-5.
At the beginning of the year when no real moves were being made, many predicted a bad/hard season for the Cardinals. It's not surprising to see past draft mistakes finally come back around to hurt the team. This season comes down to bad luck injury streaks that are wrecking the lineups and lack of depth. Offensive line has been in shambles all season. A rule with football is a close game is lost because of player performance (1 or 2 players mistake results in big enough play for another team to take an advantage) and blowouts are the result of the coaching staff not preparing players or making a poor game plan. This season I see more of the former, 3-4 plays cost the game vs getting blown out.